Camelia, the Perl 6 bug

IRC log for #parrot, 2008-03-24

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:07 Ademan joined #parrot
00:22 GeJ joined #parrot
00:24 Coke yes, but since there's no nick registry here...
00:25 * Coke wonders again why we're not using jabber. ah well.
00:27 davidfetter which jabber server?
00:40 Andy joined #parrot
00:42 Coke presumably, a perl.org one which may or may not exist atm.
00:48 wknight8111 joined #parrot
01:03 Andy a perl.org wht?
01:27 Coke 20:25  * Coke wonders again why we're not using jabber. ah well.
01:27 Coke 20:27 <@davidfetter> which jabber server?
01:27 Coke 20:40 -!- mode/#parrot [+o Andy] by slavorg
01:27 Coke 20:42 <@Coke> presumably, a perl.org one which may or may not exist atm.
01:27 Andy ah
01:27 Andy Why Jabber over IRC?
01:29 Coke I find IRC is a more disposable medium.
01:30 Coke I will talk to people where they are though. most folks on this and perl seem comfy with IRC, so here I am.
01:31 Coke (wasn't a serious "let's switch comment.")
01:31 * Coke misplaces that quote slightly.
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04:55 particle 300000000*.06
04:55 purl 18000000
05:07 davidfetter 1/0
05:57 svnbotl r26525 | petdance++ | trunk:
05:57 svnbotl : More ajr doc updates
05:57 svnbotl diff: http://parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision/?rev=26525
06:07 peter joined #parrot
06:22 * Tene has been avoiding parrot hacking in an attempt to help heal wrists and arms.
06:29 peter Tene: do you have a curved keyboard?
06:30 peter http://www.microsoft.com/hardware/mouse​andkeyboard/productdetails.aspx?pid=043
06:30 shorten peter's url is at http://xrl.us/bh6eu
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06:31 peter http://www.activerelease.com/
06:31 peter those are the two things that helped me a lot
06:31 Tene Not yet.
06:32 peter ART massages might fix you in a session or so
06:32 peter There is a great guy in my city
06:32 peter crushes muscle fibers with serious commitment
06:33 peter I can't use a flat keyboard. I have pain in minutes. I can use a curved keyboard for hours and hours
06:33 Tene Nice.
06:33 peter good luck
06:33 * Tene sleep now.
06:33 Tene Thanks. :)
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10:46 kj the PCT tutorial is done! See parrotblog.org.
12:13 diakopter speaking of p*blog.org, would anyone have a use for perlblog.org
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13:51 * Coke tries to test something with the gcdebug runcore, and forgot how long this takes.
13:57 * Coke apologize for taking over feather. =-)
13:58 Coke "s"
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14:17 Juerd Coke: Nobody complained :)
14:22 Coke Juerd: bah. turns out that the thing still does segfault. :|
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15:01 svnbotl r26526 | jkeenan++ | trunk:
15:01 svnbotl : Fix trailing whitespace to meet coding standard.
15:01 svnbotl diff: http://parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision/?rev=26526
15:06 pmichaud pmichaud; ping
15:06 kid51 pmichaud pong
15:06 pmichaud I'm baaaack!  :-)
15:08 Coke pmichaud: congratulations on the nuptials!
15:08 particl1 yay
15:08 pmichaud coke: thanks.  pictures to come soon
15:08 particl1 wb pm
15:15 Tene pmichaud++
15:24 * particl1 has finally gotten internet service on his phone, so can now be online outside of wifi areas (like now)
15:25 pmichaud I did the same last week
15:25 * Coke has that on his iphone. *drool*
15:25 particl1 i'm now browsing the net on the phone as well as on the laptop simultaneously
15:25 Coke of course, I can only use it *on* the phone which makes it hard to hack on parrot.
15:26 pmichaud it came in handy for us when we were in the middle of Springdale UT and needed to look up alternate lodging arrangements
15:27 particl1 indeed. i know i'll be using it in nyc this week.
15:27 pmichaud are you using your phone as both a browser and a modem?  or just browsing from the phone?
15:27 particl1 browser and modem at once
15:27 pmichaud excellent
15:28 pmichaud actually, the even-better-use was when I needed to check in on thursday for our southwest flights on friday
15:28 pmichaud avoided getting into the dreaded "C loser" group.
15:28 particl1 ah, good point!
15:29 pmichaud managed that one from I-70 :-)
15:29 particl1 i was on i-70 on friday, breckenridge->denver
15:29 pmichaud I was west of you, then :-)
15:30 pmichaud (oh, on _friday_ we were long gone from I-70 I guess )
15:30 pmichaud how was the powder?
15:30 particl1 awesome. 10,000ft++
15:30 pmichaud I think next winter we need to have a downhill perl workshop
15:30 particl1 count me in
15:31 pmichaud "Yes, Paula, it's true... we really are having a Perl workshop in Breckenridge..."  :-)
15:31 particl1 the hardest part for me was the tow rope to the top of peak 7
15:31 particl1 riding a snowboard alone on a tow rope up a steep hill is *no joy*
15:32 pmichaud I gave up tow ropes early :-)
15:32 particl1 it was so hard to resist, the powder! the speed! the views!
15:33 pmichaud *snicker*
15:33 kid51 particl1:  How do you manage to be in NYC the one week I'm *not* there?
15:33 particl1 ha! i was just thinking about that
15:33 pmichaud kid51:  careful planning, perhaps?
15:33 particl1 kid51: where are you?
15:33 particl1 car 54, where are you?
15:34 kid51 I am in Rochester, on my way to Toronto.  Won't be back in NYC until late Sunday.
15:34 particl1 alas, i leave nyc early sunday morning :(
15:34 particl1 rochester isn't too far from coke
15:35 particl1 say hi to rdice if you see him in toronto
15:35 rdice kid51 and I are likely to run into each other. :-)
15:35 Tene Any parroters near SF?
15:35 kid51 Coke is actually closer to NYC than to Rochester.
15:35 particl1 hrmm. i suppose that's true
15:35 particl1 tene: when will you be in sf?
15:36 Tene particl1: Starting last night.
15:36 particl1 ah. i won't be there until may
15:36 kid51 If I could recruit some more parroters in NYC, we'd make it a weekend outing to go up to Coke's house and annoy him!
15:37 Infinoid Tene: I'm 3 hours away from SF (lake tahoe)
15:37 * Coke being close to rochester is like pmichaud being close to houston.
15:37 particl1 i'm close to portland... 180mi
15:38 particl1 i've driven there for a perl meeting before
15:38 particl1 same distance from vancouver, and i've driven there for dinner
15:38 * Coke is 237m from rochester.
15:39 particl1 i guess i forgot just how close rochester is to buffalo
15:39 particl1 ~45minutes?
15:40 Coke 75m
15:40 particl1 ah.
15:40 Coke new york is wider than most NE states. =-)
15:40 particl1 for sure.
15:41 pmichaud Texas is wider than 48 other states :-)
15:41 particl1 so is your mother-in-law :P
15:41 Coke HIO!
15:42 pmichaud I know better than to make any comments about my mother-in-law.  She doesn't like me very much.
15:42 particl1 that's cause you're no good. and that's why we like you.
15:49 rdice Hello, pmichaud!
15:49 cognominal when I was working in the silicon valley, I has skied near tahoe. Don't remember the name of the place
15:50 rdice (it's so cute to hear people make reference to Texas being big :-) )
15:50 cognominal squaw valley!
15:50 purl well, squaw valley is by lake tahoe.
15:50 pmichaud purl really does know everything.
15:50 purl pmichaud: excuse me?
15:52 * Coke reminds rdice that texas used to belong to our neighbors, so watch out!
15:52 cognominal purl, status
15:52 purl Since Fri Mar 21 21:28:03 2008, there have been 267 modifications and 186 questions.  I have been awake for 2 days, 11 hours, 24 minutes, 10 seconds this session, and currently reference 691813 factoids. Addressing is in optional mode.
15:52 pmichaud actually, texas was a republic :-)
15:53 cognominal a mexican republic?
15:53 pmichaud no, a republic in its own right.  It was a sovereign nation for about eight years
15:53 Coke pmichaud: don't cloud my fearmongering with facts.
15:53 pmichaud http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republic_of_Texas
15:54 Coke there's a reason quebec hasn't seceded! =-)
15:54 rdice Coke, we're probably pretty safe.  Republicans would never admit Ontario into the US -- we'd get about 27 electoral college votes and they'd all go hard Democrat.  (like a popular vote of 80/20 at least)
15:55 pmichaud is there a province that would go hard republican?
15:55 rdice The closest would be Alberta, and the surveys there
15:55 rdice were 60/40 to the Democrats.
15:55 rdice Which (according to the Votemaster) would make it a "strong democrat" "state".
15:56 pmichaud yes, I think you're safe.  At least until the current U.S. administration decides it needs to promote democracy in Canada.  :-)
15:56 cognominal is that true that people in Texas drive like crazy people?
15:56 rdice (Votemaster = http://www.electoral-vote.com/ , and also the author of Minix :-) )
15:56 pmichaud cognominal: I don't notice crazy driving in texas.  worst drivers I've ever found are in Louisiana.
15:57 pmichaud or, perhaps I should phrase that differently
15:57 pmichaud I _used_ to think the drivers in (south) texas were awful, but then I moved to Louisiana.
15:57 * Coke tries to figure out why we have Pmc2c::Method and Pmc2c::PCCMETHOD
15:57 Coke s/why we have/if we need/
15:59 * particl1 registered www.entropyneutral.org yesterday
15:59 svnbotl r26527 | jkeenan++ | trunk:
15:59 svnbotl : Applying patch submitted in RT 38194 ([TODO] build - optimize pmc2c.pl).  Reduce number of invocations of FindBin.
15:59 svnbotl diff: http://parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision/?rev=26527
15:59 particl1 carbon neutral is so five minutes ago
15:59 kid51 Coke:  re Pmc2c/*.pm:  ask tewk.
16:00 Coke kid51: I suspect it's more of a question for chromatic, given his work in the pdd17 branch. I suspect they can be collapsed, though.
16:00 cognominal why California votes Clinton more than Obama?
16:00 pmichaud cognominal: Clinton won a huge segment of the latino vote in California
16:00 cognominal with our bling-bling president, we don't have any more time for foreign politics
16:02 cotto_work joined #parrot
16:02 pmichaud afk, errands
16:17 cotto_work kj, nice job finishing the Parrot tutorial!
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16:30 kid51 purl seen Infinoid?
16:30 purl Infinoid was last seen on #parrot 53 minutes and 29 seconds ago, saying: Tene: I'm 3 hours away from SF (lake tahoe)
16:30 kid51 Infinoid ping
16:34 kid51 particl1:  Any comment on http://rt.perl.org/rt3/Tic​ket/Display.html?id=40653 ?
16:37 Infinoid kid51: hi!
16:37 particl1 looking
16:38 particl1 kid51: i like that test. it's definitely a good first take. i recommend committing it
16:38 kid51 Infinoid:  re the change to config/auto/perldoc.pm.  I'll have to trust you on that.  It DWIMs for me on Linux and Darwin, so it Does No Harm.
16:39 kid51 I don't really understand where scriptdirexp comes from, though.
16:39 Infinoid comes from perl5's Config.pm
16:40 Infinoid someone (I believe it was wolverian) had a weird perl5.10.0 configuration that was installed in his homedir, and his scriptdir was set to ".../"
16:41 Infinoid which is apparently shorthand for "go figure it out yourself"
16:42 Infinoid something to do with $^X
16:42 kid51 I'm not disputing that.  It's just that on both Darwin and Linux, when I call perldoc -m Config and look thru the output, I only see 'scriptdir' -- not 'scriptdirexp'.  So how does init::defaults on those OSes pick up scriptdirexp?
16:43 Psyche^ joined #parrot
16:44 Infinoid its autoloaded from Config_heavy.pl
16:45 kid51 k
16:46 Infinoid thanks for the review
17:14 Coke kid51_afk: is that checking just docs/pdds/ or ../draft too?
17:18 * particl1 heads out for yet another dr's appointment
17:19 * Coke good lucks.
17:20 cotto_work I hate it when people say "PERL"
17:27 kid51 Coke:  It is checking drafts, there's one error I have to correct.
17:29 Coke kid51: ok. I am uncertain of whether or not I think it *should* check there, was just curious.
17:30 kid51 Yes, it is intended to check there.  After all, in both directories the files are PDDs.  They're just in different stages of development/approval -- correct?
17:36 Coke my thought was relating to just how *draft* it is. =-)
17:37 Coke but yah, might as well check both.
17:37 Coke kid51++
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17:53 Coke pmichaud: if you're looking for an easy win, finishing up your P6Regex removal is down to pretty much one (already broken) file.
17:53 Coke http://rt.perl.org/rt3/Tic​ket/Display.html?id=48028
17:54 Coke ... even though I spelled its wrong. (Curses!)
17:55 particl1 coke++ # entropy reduction
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17:57 Coke I was going to see about removing it, then I noticed it was broken. then I noticed something it needed was broken. then I... realized I should just open some tickets.
17:57 wolverian Infinoid, it's not weird, it's a relocatable perl. well, I suppose you might call that weird. the relocatability is new in 5.10, anyway.
17:59 Coke "it's not weird, it's ... perl"
17:59 svnbotl r26528 | jkeenan++ | trunk:
17:59 svnbotl : Adding t/codingstd/pdd_format.t to check formatting of PDDs in docs/pdds/ and
17:59 svnbotl : docs/pdds/draft per RT 40653.
17:59 svnbotl diff: http://parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision/?rev=26528
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18:03 * particl1 goes for errands & airport
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18:25 svnbotl r26529 | jkeenan++ | trunk:
18:25 svnbotl : Change name of config step class gen::icu to auto::icu.  It was not
18:25 svnbotl : generating any new files.  It was simply another automated probe of the
18:25 svnbotl : configuration environment.  Make additional corrections as needed in
18:25 svnbotl : Parrot::Configure::Step::List, MANIFEST and tests.
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21:15 bgeron would Parrot be interested in hosting the zeroinstall interface file on parrotcode.org itself?
21:17 bgeron a redirect is enough, and it gives parrotcode.org control
21:18 bgeron you could even redirect to multiple implementations by packagers :)
21:20 bgeron it would be hard to regain that control if another URI is in widespread use, unfortunately
21:20 Coke If I know what a zeroinstall interface file was, possibly.
21:20 Coke =-)
21:21 Coke s/know/knew/ # argh
21:21 bgeron example at http://quackcode.org/2008/interfaces/parrot.xml
21:22 bgeron oh, and there's an interface.xsl (xslt) and a GPG key, because remote feeds must always be signed
21:22 Coke that doesn't tell me what it *is*.
21:22 Coke well, ok, what it *does*.
21:22 Coke zeroinstall?
21:22 bgeron ah of course :)
21:22 bgeron zeroinstall is a package manager
21:22 Coke zeroinstall is http://0install.net/roadmap.html
21:23 bgeron only it's distributed, nonprivileged, secure and more of that stuff
21:23 bgeron and a package isn't referred to as "parrot" but as such a URI (of which multiple implementations may exist)
21:24 bgeron there should be an interface file at that URI though, or things will go wrong if I install package A which depends on Parrot, because it can't find how to install Parrot
21:24 bgeron s/install/download/
21:24 Coke do we need to maintain multiple urls for various versions?
21:24 bgeron nope
21:25 bgeron they're all in one interface file
21:25 bgeron the 2008 is only for namespacing
21:26 Coke seems reasonable. I'd open a ticket with the XML attached (that'll cc the list and give folks a chance to comment.)
21:26 bgeron okay, but
21:26 bgeron if I'm the only packager for Parrot, it'd be more useful to put a different interface there which 'includes' my feed
21:27 bgeron but better have a proper interface there if Real Parrot People package too :)
21:27 * bgeron tries what such a file would look like
21:28 Coke I'd include that in the email. =-)
21:28 bgeron okay, thanks
21:29 bgeron a third alternative is to just include multiple packagers in that feed
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21:29 bgeron well, the point is that if people use a parrotcode.org URI, we can easily change that
21:29 Coke it seems vaguely like java web start.
21:30 Coke ->
21:30 bgeron there is a comparison to JWS on http://0install.net/matrix.html, and it looks a lot like it indeed
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21:40 bgeron the interface URI at parrotcode.org should start with www., I guess?
21:41 bgeron the web server seems to redirect to www.parrotcode.org/blah if not
21:45 bgeron http://bgeron.nl/~bgeron/0install-parrot/ should be what you'd upload in /2008/interfaces/
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23:02 bgeron either the mailing list is slow, or Coke hasn't sent his email yet :)
23:03 Tene Or both!
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