Camelia, the Perl 6 bug

IRC log for #parrot, 2008-03-31

Parrot | source cross referenced

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:05 darbelo "Sane enough for the gestapo" that's quite an endorsement :)
00:06 ewilhelm particle must be stuck in traffic
00:06 * ewilhelm wrote to josh triplett
00:06 ewilhelm though maybe he is applying as a student, we'll see
00:08 chromatic We have Parrot projects?
00:08 ewilhelm piles of parrot projects
00:08 * kid51 logs on from the U.S. for first time in six days.
00:09 ewilhelm chromatic: did you get mail on psoc-manager list?
00:09 chromatic The only thing I saw was one proposal.
00:09 ewilhelm today?
00:09 purl today is kick ECarroll day or Harry Houdini's death day.
00:09 chromatic wxCPAN GUI proposal, on Thursday.
00:09 ewilhelm no, different list
00:10 ewilhelm proposals don't come to the managers list, but I sent the link just 5min ago
00:10 chromatic I might not be on the list then.
00:21 guru joined #parrot
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00:55 contingencyplan joined #parrot
01:02 * particle returns
01:02 particle darbelo: ping
01:03 darbelo Pong.
01:03 particle what's up?
01:03 purl Your face, particle. That's what.
01:04 ewilhelm bad bot
01:05 wknight8111 yeah, the bot needs a stern talking-to
01:05 * particle gives purl a wedgie
01:06 particle pmichaud: ping
01:06 * particle needs to consider submitting to yapc::na tonight
01:09 * darbelo is looking for guidance and mentor-sheep
01:10 * ewilhelm is looking at languages/c99/MAINTAINER :-/
01:11 darbelo maybe a ship. Or a ship full of sheep.
01:11 particle tewk (with my help) created the first stab at c99
01:11 particle kj then ported it to the new compiler tools (pct)
01:11 ewilhelm if there are no overwhelming flaws in the application, we can sort-out the mentorship after the edit cutoff
01:12 particle kj also extended it, so it parses more than it did before
01:13 particle iirc, c99 can now parse some sdl header files
01:14 darbelo Thing is, The grammar chokes on the only available test file. That can give people the wrong impression.
01:14 particle indeed.
01:15 particle we have very many works-in-progress by excited developers
01:15 particle but there seem to be fewer test tuits than code tuits :(
01:15 wknight8111 like me, I'm more excited then I am talented
01:15 wknight8111 :)\
01:16 particle you're a lot like me, then :)
01:16 darbelo Fixing that is trivial. changing main ( void ) to int main(int argc, char **argv)
01:16 Coke (yapc::na) I think I'm not going to submit a talk, and just focus on the workshop.
01:16 darbelo but there are some other areas where it needs work.
01:16 particle coke: that's what i thought i'd do, too
01:16 Coke kid51: haven't forgotten your patch. I think it's good, but I think we can rip out more.
01:17 * particle notices a lot of files have been modified in the past week
01:18 kid51 Coke:  The question is:  Do we want to throw out Parrot::Revision entirely, or do we want to retain it for a narrowly defined focus.  I know your ticket requested the former, but I'd like to make a case for the latter.
01:18 kid51 What else would need ripping out (if not the whole thing)?
01:19 chromatic I can live with it only supporting SVN, and not doing anything for other VCSes.
01:19 kid51 After all, I ripped out anything *I* couldn't maintain ;-)
01:20 dalek r26646 | chromatic++ | trunk:
01:20 dalek : [PDB] Taught PDB how to catch Parrot exceptions.  See RT #37287.  This still
01:20 dalek : needs more work, but it's a start.
01:20 dalek diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn​/parrot/revision?rev=26646
01:20 kid51 particle:  At least submit a 1-paragraph proposal so jmcadams has something to work with.
01:20 * kid51 must eat dinner; just back from Toronto
01:23 Coke I didn't see a compelling reason to keep it. I'll re-read your email to see. But I agree we should rip out at least this much.
01:23 Coke if we only disagree about the last bits, that can be done separately, later.
01:26 particle was is das dalek?
01:27 ewilhelm I think dalek is the commit bot
01:27 ewilhelm or else somebody with real quick and consistent typing :-)
01:27 particle ja, wondering if this is the replacement for svnbot or what
01:29 chromatic That's the plan.
01:32 dalek r26647 | chromatic++ | trunk:
01:32 dalek : [dynpmc] Made GDBMHash PMC use parrot/embed.h instead of parrot/parrot.h (RT
01:32 dalek : #39043).
01:32 dalek diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn​/parrot/revision?rev=26647
01:33 particle hopefully this beastie is more stable. however, it must be throttled or we'll get chided by ircops
01:33 particle ~1message/second
01:40 dalek r26648 | chromatic++ | trunk:
01:40 dalek : [Amber] Updated PMCs to match PDD 17 changes.
01:41 dalek : Made PMCs use parrot/embed.h instead of parrot/parrot.h (RT #39043).
01:41 dalek diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn​/parrot/revision?rev=26648
01:49 dalek r26649 | chromatic++ | trunk:
01:49 dalek : [regex] Made PMCs use parrot/embed.h instead of parrot/parrot.h (RT #39043).
01:49 dalek diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn​/parrot/revision?rev=26649
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01:58 dalek r26650 | chromatic++ | trunk:
01:58 dalek : [Pugs] Made PMCs use parrot/embed.h instead of parrot/parrot.h (RT #39043).
01:58 dalek : Fixed some compilation errors and warnings.
01:58 dalek diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn​/parrot/revision?rev=26650
02:04 dalek r26651 | chromatic++ | trunk:
02:04 dalek : [WMLScript] Made PMCs use parrot/embed.h instead of parrot/parrot.h (RT #39043).
02:04 dalek : Fixed some compilation warnings.
02:04 dalek diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn​/parrot/revision?rev=26651
02:05 Theory joined #parrot
02:07 Coke seen pmichaud?
02:07 purl pmichaud was last seen on #parrot 1 day and 2 hours ago, saying: Paula's calling me for dinner -- bbl  [Mar 29 17:29:07 2008]
02:10 Coke particle: are you on top of our current SOC status? =-)
02:17 Coke I've heard people say that make -j2 test is faster. How can this be?
02:17 Coke (since there is only one executable in the makefile)
02:17 chromatic Make usually blocks on IO, not CPU.
02:18 Coke "assuming parrot is already built...."
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02:20 chromatic I don't think I understand your question then.
02:20 Coke "make test" runs a *single* executable, neh?
02:20 Coke (perl t/harness...)
02:21 Coke assuming yes, then how can "make -j" make that run faster, if all it does is run multiple targets at the same time? there's only one target...
02:21 chromatic Yes, that's true.
02:21 Coke I'm just making sure that I am not the one with the disconnect here.
02:21 chromatic If Test::Harness runs its files in parallel, there's a bonus.
02:21 chromatic Otherwise, no real bonus, if make all has already happened.
02:24 dalek r26652 | coke++ | trunk:
02:24 dalek : [tcl] Made PMCs use parrot/embed.h instead of parrot/parrot.h (RT #39043).
02:24 dalek : chromatic++
02:24 dalek diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn​/parrot/revision?rev=26652
02:28 * Coke pays attention to chromatic's commits and tcl-blocks him.
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02:31 chromatic 'bout time someone does.
02:38 * Coke tries to close out his windows ticket, but ends up doing the ZOMG UPGRADE EVERYTHING dance he does whenever he boots this xp box
02:38 * Coke launches firefox to check for updates... which finishes installing the last update he downloaded. nice.
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02:40 chromatic No dancing, please.
02:41 Coke ... I could just shimmy.
02:45 chromatic The IRC goggles... they do nothing.
02:48 ewilhelm my -j ears are burning
02:48 ewilhelm does it run more than one t/harness - e.g. in languages?
02:55 Coke no.
02:55 * Coke double checks...
02:56 Infinoid that would be awesome.
02:56 Coke no.
02:56 ewilhelm hmm, well make only parallelizes on sub-Makefile's, right?
02:56 Coke no.
02:56 Infinoid no, actually, sub-Makefiles are where parallel makes usually break badly
02:57 Coke (because each sub makefile is considered a single task by the top level make)
02:57 chromatic What's long and hard and full of dependencies?  A submakefile.
02:57 Infinoid make parallizes on peer nodes in the dependency tree
02:57 ewilhelm so how does it slice targets to determine which parts are independent?
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02:58 Coke it analyzes all the deps.
02:58 Infinoid its just looking at the dependency tree... parents and children are dependant, siblings aren't
02:58 Coke it has to do that to do the build anyway.
02:59 ewilhelm ok, so if test had e.g. a list of result files to be built then it would parallelize?
02:59 Coke yes.
02:59 Infinoid if there were no interdependencies declared between them, then make will consider them fair game
02:59 ewilhelm (not that this would be a good approach)
02:59 Coke and then you could have a step at the end that combined all the result files into harness output.
02:59 Infinoid hey, anything that reduces developer turnaround time is worth considering in my book :)
03:00 * ewilhelm would rather see it just pass -j to prove
03:00 Coke does prove respect -j ?
03:00 * Coke checks.
03:00 ewilhelm yep
03:00 Infinoid ooh
03:00 Coke well there you go.
03:00 Coke only problem there is tests that depend on each other to run, neh?
03:00 Coke I don't think we have any of those.
03:00 chromatic They are stupid.
03:00 chromatic Throw rocks at them.
03:01 Coke Yes, master.
03:01 ewilhelm no, only problem is when things assume that they can make stupid tempfiles
03:01 purl okay, ewilhelm.
03:01 Infinoid hmm, from what I've seen so far, they're pretty good at using the basename of the test
03:01 Infinoid (for core tests at least)
03:01 ewilhelm but easily solved with e.g. $filename .= $$ if need be
03:03 Infinoid do we run any tests more than once?
03:03 * Infinoid throws rocks at them
03:04 ewilhelm yeah, basename works too
03:05 * Coke has updated firefox, safari, subverison, and is waiting for parrot, ie7, xp, quicktime ... come on...
03:09 Coke I eagerly await this mythical prove -j!
03:09 Coke =-)
03:11 * Coke is bit by the hq9+ issue during the svn up process. *grr*
03:11 Infinoid Coke: wknight8111 solved it by just removing all of languages/ and redoing the update
03:12 Infinoid prove -j will be awesome.  but recursion to different harnesses will be interesting
03:13 Coke it's my understanding that we are moving to "highlander harnesses"
03:15 chromatic There should never be any sequels?
03:15 Coke cloooose.
03:18 * ewilhelm misses highlander joke ... dons kilt, tries adding scotch
03:19 ewilhelm Infinoid: yeah, no "different harnesses"
03:27 * Coke forgot how slow "make realclean" is on windows.
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03:28 chromatic Here's a nickel kid, get yourself a kernel with decent IO.
03:30 ewilhelm oh crap, these cost a nickel?
03:31 chromatic Or 12 billion dollars and 5 years, if you're Vista.
03:31 chromatic (and if you're not trying to read files while you're getting network traffic)
03:31 * Coke can't sleep, IO will eat me.
03:38 Infinoid I Spent 12 Billion Dollars And 5 Years And All I Got Was This Lousy Vista
03:46 dalek r26653 | coke++ | trunk:
03:46 dalek : [codingstd]
03:46 dalek : Eliminate unused code (msvc++)
03:46 dalek diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn​/parrot/revision?rev=26653
03:48 Coke (I think the original long running realclean I was complaining about had been stuck in some kind of loop due to the upgrade. I rescind my complaint
03:48 pmichaud /lastlog pmichaud 5
03:48 pmichaud oops
03:49 Coke oooh, nifty.
03:49 Coke I'll never have to wade through backscroll again. =-)
03:49 Coke pmichaud: how goes?
03:49 tetragon joined #parrot
03:51 pmichaud pretty well (reading scrollback)
03:54 Coke Infinoid: can you resolve 37323 ?
03:54 Coke (or rather, have you just?)
03:55 Coke bother. strawberry perl's "migw32-make" seems to be preferred whether i'm in xp or cygwin.
03:56 Infinoid the latter bit sounds like what I solved
03:56 Infinoid but I'd answer the original complaint with "do a realclean first, dork"
03:56 Infinoid changing build types on the fly isn't easy
03:57 Infinoid but if some specific examples can be found of sourcefiles which aren't rebuilt upon modification, I'd be happy to fix those up
03:57 Infinoid (so far, I haven't had any problems with that)
03:59 pmichaud particle: pong
04:00 Infinoid if we really wanted to support reconfigure-with-different-build-type-on-the-fly, we should be putting our object files in a special subdir, named after the build type, or using a special suffix
04:00 Infinoid I've never seen such a system that I'd call "pretty".  is it worth the trouble?
04:01 Coke I'm not the guy to ask, but in general, having to ever do "make realclean" sucks.
04:02 chromatic Sorry.
04:03 Infinoid well, I can call "make realclean" internally when Configure.pl sees that a Makefile already exists... that'd save some time
04:03 pmichaud ick!  no!
04:03 Infinoid didn't think so. :)
04:05 pmichaud calling "make realclean" when someone requests a different-build-type-on-the-fly might be reasonable, though
04:10 dalek r26654 | chromatic++ | trunk:
04:10 dalek : [dotnet] Ported PMCs to PDD 17 (somehow missed them).
04:10 dalek : Made PMCs use parrot/extend.h instead of parrot/parrot.h (RT #39043).
04:10 dalek : Fixed some compilation warnings.
04:10 dalek : I don't know if the tests pass; I don't have Mono.  I'm just bored.
04:10 dalek diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn​/parrot/revision?rev=26654
04:11 * Coke waits for someone to volunteer to give chromatic mono.
04:12 * ewilhelm wonders if it requires wine
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04:17 dalek r26655 | coke++ | trunk:
04:17 dalek : [t] Add a failing todo test for RT# 43048 (div by zero const. folding issue)
04:17 dalek diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn​/parrot/revision?rev=26655
04:19 Coke ewilhelm++ on his technical innuendo skill.
04:24 chromatic Wow, compilers/bcg didn't even *compile*.
04:26 dalek r26656 | chromatic++ | trunk:
04:26 dalek : [BCG] Rescued this compiler; now it compiles.
04:26 dalek : Made PMCs use parrot/extend.h instead of parrot/parrot.h (RT #39043).
04:26 dalek : Removed several compiler warnings.
04:26 dalek : Half of the tests fail, but that means they all run and half pass.  Progress.
04:26 dalek diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn​/parrot/revision?rev=26656
04:32 Coke pointers on how to catch an exception from C?
04:34 chromatic r26646
04:35 Coke different but related question: for 43048, should we be 1) avoiding the constant folding of 1/0 in the first place, or should we be taking the exception that is returned from our eval and freezing that into the bytecode to rethrow it?
04:36 Coke I suppose the alternate version is to, if we get *any* exception trying to fold, back off on the fold and then let whatever happens at runtime happen.
04:36 Coke I like that version.
04:37 pmichaud is the constant folding actually being done based on the op?  I guess it would be.
04:37 pmichaud is there a   div_n_ic_nc op?
04:38 pmichaud actually, as I think about it more, I'm doubting that the actual op is used for the constant fold
04:38 Coke it seems to be.
04:38 Coke compilers/imcc/optimizer.c //eval_ins
04:40 Coke it's calling interp->op_func_table[opnum] ...
04:40 pmichaud I guess you're right.
04:40 Tene ewilhelm: I know nothing about c99. why?
04:41 * Coke wonders if coke had said "tene" at one point when he meant "tewk"
04:41 chromatic I was just thinking that, but my eyes have stopped working from refactoring PMCs.
04:42 ewilhelm Tene: I was just looking for potential mentors for that proposal
04:42 Tene Ahh.
04:42 ewilhelm it looks like we might need to recruit one or two more parrot mentors for SoC still
04:43 Tene As always, if you need my help, just let me know what I need to do.
04:44 ewilhelm well, depends on what you can and want to do
04:44 * ewilhelm is just the drummer
04:46 Tene Yeah, sure.
04:55 ewilhelm ok, I'll go back to guessing at your skillset
04:55 Coke whoa. I think I fixed an IMCC bug.
04:56 * chromatic assigns a pile of tickets to Coke
04:57 Tene ewilhelm: heh. :)
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05:01 andrewks good evening all.  Is there an Allison around looking for an ia64 box?
05:02 * Coke tries to run.
05:03 cotto_home andrewks, she hangs out here on occasion.
05:04 Coke email is probably your best bet.
05:04 Coke allison?
05:04 purl somebody said allison was Allison Randal <mailto:allison@perl.org>
05:07 Tene ewilhelm: mostly HLL stuff so far. My C is iffy.  I don't remember most of what I've done.  I recommend svn log | grep tene
05:08 ewilhelm Tene: how about perl 6?
05:08 purl perl 6 is the spec, rakudo and pugs are the implementations.
05:09 Tene ewilhelm: I have a few patches to rakudo, iirc.  I've been actively following Perl 6 for quite a while.
05:14 Tene ewilhelm: Vague question. I'm not sure what you're asking.
05:15 Coke has pmichaud volunteered for perl6 mentoring yet?
05:18 jan joined #parrot
05:21 * Tene finally sleep.
05:33 * Coke finishes his testing and commits the imcc fix
05:34 dalek r26657 | coke++ | trunk:
05:34 dalek : [IMCC]
05:34 dalek : '$I0 = 1/0' generated a compile time exception due to constant folding instead of a
05:34 dalek : catchable runtime exception.
05:34 dalek : - if an exception occurs during this kind of constant folding, just abort the
05:34 dalek :   optimization.
05:34 dalek : - fixup the todo test to have proper syntax (which was missed due to the constant
05:34 dalek :   folding)
05:34 dalek : - eliminate two invalid tests that used invalid opcodes which were missed due to
05:34 dalek :   this issue.
05:34 dalek diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn​/parrot/revision?rev=26657
05:35 * Coke remembers the good old days when he would just work on tcl and leo would be the one mucking with imcc. =-)
05:54 pmichaud pmichaud has not volunteered for perl6 mentoring yet
05:57 ewilhelm no t-shirt for pmichaud :-(
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06:29 dalek r26658 | chromatic++ | trunk:
06:29 dalek : [IMCC] Fixed a segfault when parsing a yield outside of a coroutine (reported
06:29 dalek : by Seneca Cunningham, RT #52220).
06:29 dalek diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn​/parrot/revision?rev=26658
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12:23 * Coke yawns
12:24 * Debolaz ponders yawning too
12:25 * moritz wonders why rakudo's List.reverse method is so weird
12:25 moritz my @a = ('foo'); say @a.reverse
12:25 moritz oof
12:51 particle stop yawning and get to work!@
12:51 moritz anyway, I added a test to the pugs test suite, so it will be caught at some point
12:56 * particle can look at it after rebuilding parrot
13:02 particle t/codingstd/perlcritic.....​..................Undefined subroutine &Perl::Critic::Policy::NamingConventions::Pro​hibitAmbiguousNames::default_forbidden_words called at t/codingstd/perlcritic.t line 141.
13:02 particle # Looks like your test died before it could output anything.
13:03 particle anyone know something about that?
13:04 Coke Yup.
13:04 dalek r26659 | particle++ | trunk:
13:04 dalek : [RELEASE] add some info to META.yml
13:04 dalek diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn​/parrot/revision?rev=26659
13:04 Coke I updated that test recently to add that test.
13:05 Coke er, rephrase: to call that particular method.
13:05 Coke perhaps it was only added in a version so recent you do not have it?
13:05 particle a version of Perl::Critic?
13:05 Coke no, that particular policy.
13:05 Coke ... which may be bundled with P:C, sure.
13:06 particle perhaps. iunno how to test for that
13:06 particle ok
13:06 particle c:\usr\local\parrot\trunk>perl -MPerl::Critic -e"print $Perl::Critic::VERSION"
13:06 particle 1.080
13:06 Coke Worked for me before I committed it: Basically, I was telling it to prohibit everything it normally does, except to allow the name 'abstract' as a name.
13:06 Debolaz Is there a timeline for when parrot is expected to be production ready?
13:07 particle Debolaz: we're trying to reach 1.0 this year, but don't have all the dates mapped out to make that happen yet
13:07 Coke 1.031.03
13:07 Coke er, 1.03
13:07 particle let's require 1.03 then, and i'll upgrade
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13:08 Coke is 1.03 > 1.080 ? freaky.
13:08 * diakopter sets the throttling to 1 bit/second.  hopefully botnix will interpret that as 1 message/second.
13:08 Coke m
13:08 Coke e
13:08 Coke
13:08 Coke t
13:08 Coke o
13:08 Coke o
13:09 diakopter point taken, the variable name is 'bps', when it should be 'Bps'
13:11 * particle needs a perl module that can read an exchange (outlook) inbox
13:12 particle suggestions?
13:12 purl suggestions are welcome.
13:15 diakopter particle: see the FILE-FORMAT.htm file in this .zip: http://www.marklyon.org/gmail/readpst.zip
13:24 diakopter particle: did you mean read PST/OST files or access Exchange via MAPI
13:41 particle mapi, more likely.
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14:02 Coke any cygwin users here?
14:02 particle i've heard of cygwin
14:03 particle got it installed. should probably update it to latest, and update parrot there
14:04 Coke I am now able to build parrot, but building all dies on one of the PIR files
14:05 particle like, parrot segfaults?
14:05 Coke ./parrot.exe -o runtime/parrot/library/PGE/P6Grammar.pbc runtime/parrot/library/
14:05 Coke PGE/P6Grammar.pir
14:05 Coke error:imcc:syntax error, unexpected $end in file 'runtime/parrot/library/PGE/P6Grammar.pir' line 373
14:06 pmichaud very odd
14:07 Coke hurm. i think this might be a result of using tortoisesvn vs. cygwin svn.
14:07 pmichaud that file is going away in a few minutes anyway :-)
14:07 diakopter tortoisesvn has a toggle for unix eol...
14:08 pmichaud particle:  are you okay with eliminating languages/tap ?
14:08 Coke pmichaud: well, if you can make it go away, then I can have this fail on another file. That would be good. =-)
14:08 particle i wanna save the grammar, as it's close to correct
14:09 particle it can go in examples/pge
14:09 pmichaud particle will do
14:09 pmichaud excellent idea
14:09 * particle updates cygwin
14:10 * pmichaud updates in preparation for removing pgc, P6Grammar, P6Regex
14:11 Coke diakopter: where is that toggle?
14:13 * particle updates parrot on cygwin
14:18 Coke I get that error on a few files. If I set the eol-style on one of those files to 'unix' instead of 'native', it works.
14:19 paco joined #parrot
14:20 Coke ... but not all of them. (Crow.pir fails too.)
14:21 diakopter Coke: It's a system-wide toggle, unfortunately, I think.  I didn't know about the per-file one.  It's been a year or two since I used TortoiseSVN
14:22 moritz the per-file is stored on the svn, and not specific to toroisesvn
14:24 diakopter oh; there's a checkbox in the TortoiseSVN config window.  I dunno which tab/area.
14:28 Coke diakopter: If I go to tortoisesvn->settings-> ... I dont see line endings in any tabs except general -> subversion configuration file.
14:29 * Coke checks the svn-book
14:29 diakopter Infinoid: I think dalek always skips notification of the first new revision it sees after it awakens.
14:30 diakopter (r26659 in this case)
14:30 Infinoid yes.  that's because botnix doesn't call the shutdown() method when you kill it, so it doesn't save the previous value
14:30 Infinoid so it autodetects it, by finding the max() of the current rss contents.
14:31 diakopter ah.  I wonder how to gracefully shutdown botnix. :)
14:31 diakopter svc -d dalekbot  is what I've been doing
14:31 Infinoid I don't actually know.  I've been using SIGTERM, which wasn't so graceful
14:32 tewk particle, Coke: Latest GSoC Application submitted and published http://docs.google.com/Doc?id=dgbncnxx_9d2n6q2nq
14:32 Infinoid anyway, you can put an "} else { $newestrev-- }" near the bottom of process_rss() if you want it to output the newest rev on startup
14:32 Infinoid the way I did initially for debugging.
14:32 * particle wishes google supported diffs between submission versions
14:33 Coke if only they had some kind of document management system that allowed that...
14:33 Infinoid kdiff3 Works For Me, but its a lot of infrastructure
14:34 Infinoid oh, SoC submissions.  nevermind.
14:35 particle luckily, tewk uses google docs before submitting, so we can check it there
14:35 particle tewk++
14:35 Coke wow, TPF up to 20 submissions.
14:35 particle yeah, they just keep pouring in!
14:35 particle only 4 parrot and 1 perl 6, though
14:37 Infinoid diakopter: oh, better idea!  you can just write out the latest rev after every process_rss() run.  assuming botnix writes the file immediately, that should work perfectly
14:39 particle tewk: looks good to me
14:39 Andy joined #parrot
14:47 dalek r26660 | pmichaud++ | trunk:
14:47 dalek : Preparation for removing P6Regex from trunk (RT#48028):
14:47 dalek : * Remove outdated TAP.pg from examples/pge/
14:47 dalek : * Preserve languages/tap/src/TAP_grammar.pg in examples/pge
14:47 dalek diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn​/parrot/revision?rev=26660
14:49 dalek r26661 | pmichaud++ | trunk:
14:49 dalek : [tap]:
14:49 dalek : * Remove languages/tap from trunk, can be rebuilt using new language tools.
14:49 dalek : * Grammar is preserved in examples/pge/grammars/ .
14:49 dalek : * Changed status of tap in LANGUAGES_STATUS.pod.
14:50 dalek diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn​/parrot/revision?rev=26661
14:52 dalek r26662 | pmichaud++ | trunk:
14:52 dalek : [tap]:
14:52 dalek : * Remove tap from Parrot configuration scripts.
14:52 dalek diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn​/parrot/revision?rev=26662
14:54 * Coke is surprised that nothing exploded after his immc change. whee!
14:57 particle using my cygwin build script, parrot build successfully
14:58 particle #!/bin/sh -x
14:58 particle PATH=$PATH:`pwd`/blib/lib
14:58 particle export PATH
14:58 particle perl Configure.pl
14:58 particle make
14:58 purl i heard #!/bin/sh -x was the same as running 'set -x' as the first command, if that helps
15:02 cognominal joined #parrot
15:04 particle make test fails miserably, though
15:17 Coke particle: what is your default text file type?
15:18 sjansen joined #parrot
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15:19 particle probably unix. how do i tell you?
15:19 Coke run cygwin setup and see what it defaults to?
15:20 particle Unix / binary (RECOMMENDED)
15:20 Coke hurm.
15:21 Coke what subversion client did you use? tortoisesvn?
15:21 Coke or cygwins?
15:21 Coke (or some other way of grabbing source.)
15:23 particle cygwin's svn package and 'svn up'
15:23 particle iirc using windows svn with cygwin is broken
15:28 * Coke tries to config this properly...
15:35 rdice joined #parrot
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15:40 Coke particle: (*@#&$@#(*&$
15:40 Coke yah. avoiding tortoisesvn, it builds fine.
15:41 Coke I will add tha to the readme before I close the ticket.
15:48 Tene Argh!
15:49 Tene I don't trust my normal laptop anymore, so I borrowed my girl's for this week, and it suddenly won't power on at all.
15:51 Coke tene: don't ever touch my pacemaker.
15:52 Coke not that I have one yet.
15:52 dalek r26663 | coke++ | trunk:
15:52 dalek : [docs]
15:52 dalek : Cygwin does, in fact, build, if you follow these steps.
15:52 dalek diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn​/parrot/revision?rev=26663
15:55 Coke particle: I only have 4 failures. nothing major.
15:56 pjcj joined #parrot
15:58 dalek r26664 | pmichaud++ | trunk:
15:58 dalek : [pge]:
15:58 dalek : * Remove deprecated P6Regex, P6Grammar, and pgc.pir from trunk.
15:58 dalek : * Resolves RT#48028 and RT#48026.
15:58 dalek : * Updated NEWS, DEPRECATED.pod
15:58 dalek diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn​/parrot/revision?rev=26664
16:03 Coke pmichaud++
16:03 Tene My treo is just a bit too weak to consider compiling parrot on.
16:03 * Coke waits for chromatic to figure out how much lighter parrot is.
16:04 dalek r26665 | pmichaud++ | trunk:
16:04 dalek : [pge]:
16:04 dalek : * Missed a P6Regex --> Perl6Regex conversion in pgegrep.
16:04 dalek diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn​/parrot/revision?rev=26665
16:06 pmichaud looks like we might need a "svn:ignore" for src/exec_dep.c ?  Is that a new file?
16:06 pmichaud anyway, time for me to reward myself with lunch :-)
16:08 Coke odd. is that a generated file? the comments don't seem to think so.
16:08 pmichaud it just showed up.  realclean doesn't remove it
16:09 pmichaud I'll remove it manually and rebuild... one moment
16:10 Coke /usr/bin/perl.exe -MExtUtils::Command -e cp src/jit/i386/exec_dep.c src/exec_dep.c
16:10 Coke do we really want to be doing a copy?
16:16 particle yes
16:16 particle we really want a copy
16:17 iblechbot joined #parrot
16:17 particle it's part of the jit system, which gets copied depending on your platfrom
16:17 particle unless you're proposing to generate those files during configure?
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17:17 dalek r26666 | bernhard++ | trunk:
17:17 dalek : Update copyright years.
17:17 dalek diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn​/parrot/revision?rev=26666
17:18 * particle notes the horrible inefficiencies in t/steps/*.t and sighs
17:18 particle holy code duplication!
17:18 cotto_work joined #parrot
17:23 Infinoid particle: and you're cleaning that up, right? :)
17:30 Coke particle: (copy) uh, why not just link in the one we care about?
17:34 dalek r26667 | bernhard++ | trunk:
17:34 dalek : Make t/codingstd/c_parens.t happy.
17:34 dalek diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn​/parrot/revision?rev=26667
17:36 dalek r26668 | bernhard++ | trunk:
17:36 dalek : [HQ9+]
17:36 dalek : Use the stringified Match object for implementing 'quine'.
17:36 dalek diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn​/parrot/revision?rev=26668
17:46 particle links don't work on all platforms
17:50 peeps[work] joined #parrot
17:59 Coke no, just build the file we want and link in the resulting .o; not a symlink.
17:59 Coke (or hard link, or anything)
18:01 pmichaud http://www.pmichaud.com/sandbox/commits.gif
18:01 pmichaud trend line is trend of commits Nov 2006-Oct 2007
18:02 pmichaud red is commits Nov 2007 to present
18:02 particle is that based on the data from the tool i wrote?
18:02 pmichaud no, it's from the svn commit logs
18:03 particle tools/util/gen_release_info.pl - generate release info for graphs and charts
18:04 davidfetter joined #parrot
18:04 * Coke wonders if he can make another google doc with widgets that does something similar.
18:04 pmichaud I did this chart in openoffice calc, was pretty easy once I knew what I was doing :-)
18:06 particle my script takes the revision of the release tag
18:06 particle so it's commits between releases as opposed to some arbitrary date
18:06 cotto_work Infinoid, I can occasionally get make -j to fail.
18:07 cotto_work ./src/pmc/role.pmc:52:27: error: pmc_namespace.h: No such file or directory
18:07 cotto_work That looks like the offending line
18:07 cotto_work I can nopaste more output if you're interested
18:10 Coke aha. I can fix that.
18:11 pmichaud I wanted to use first-of-each-month so I could get reasonable labels on the x-axis
18:12 pmichaud I could probably do that with release date as well
18:12 pmichaud (i.e., show the release dates on the x-axis)
18:13 Infinoid cotto_work: how many jobs are you running with?
18:13 cotto_work as many as make feels like spawning
18:13 particle if you can show the release dates on a constant time scale, that's better
18:13 cotto_work I'm running make -j
18:13 particle *consistent
18:13 Infinoid ah.  I don't feel like putting my laptop in swap hell, so I've limited myself to -j10
18:14 Coke cotto_work: do me a favor, submit a ticket: do to that right is going to involve a programmatic change, not just declaring a dependency.
18:14 cotto_work np
18:14 particle doesn't -j default to #procs+1?
18:15 cotto_work If the -j option is given without an argument, make will not limit the number of jobs that can run simultaneously.
18:15 Coke basically, pmc/role.c is depending only pmc/role.pmc, when it should also depend on any .h's, *especially* the ones that are generated.
18:15 cotto_work (from the man page)
18:15 pmichaud yes, I can get the release dates on a consistent time scale
18:15 Infinoid no, given a sufficiently parallizable Makefile it defaults to "all your RAM are belong to us"
18:15 Infinoid I'm getting a failure in t/compilers/imcc/syn/regressions.t
18:15 particle ah. well 6G must be enough ram that i never run into problems.
18:15 Coke Infinoid: I just touched that file. which one, #2?
18:15 Infinoid yes
18:16 Infinoid #1 segfaults, but is marked as TODO
18:16 Infinoid #2 wants the nonexistent 'div_i_ic_ic' op
18:16 dalek r26669 | bernhard++ | trunk:
18:16 dalek : [HQ9+]
18:16 dalek : Implement '+' with 'postfix:++'
18:16 dalek diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn​/parrot/revision?rev=26669
18:17 Coke DOH.
18:17 Coke checking.
18:17 purl somebody said checking. was that necessary? I'm accessing it via http://localhost/~jkeroes/cgi-bin/test.cgi
18:17 Infinoid purl, forget checking
18:17 purl Infinoid, I didn't have anything matching checking
18:17 Infinoid purl, forget checking.
18:17 purl Infinoid, I didn't have anything matching checking
18:18 Infinoid cotto_work: is it consistent at all?  or 1 chance in 10, or...?
18:18 cotto_work I'd guess it fails ~20% of the time
18:19 * Infinoid runs 100 builds in a for loop
18:19 Coke Infinoid: the failure makes sense.
18:19 Coke that dependency is not listed.
18:19 Coke if you do a make realclean, then try to make src/pmc/role.c, it should fail.
18:20 Infinoid s/c$/o/
18:20 Coke er, right.
18:20 Infinoid Coke++
18:21 Coke the thing that generates the deps list in the makefile for pmcs needs to take the includes into a ccount.
18:21 Coke Infinoid: I cannot duplicate that error on feather (regressions.t)
18:21 Infinoid do we do a deps pass at Configure.pl time?
18:21 Coke doing a realclean and trying again...
18:22 Coke Infinoid: for pmcs, yes.
18:22 Infinoid maybe I'm putting this stuff in the wrong place, then
18:25 Infinoid Coke: I just rebuilt (with -j1) and reproduced t/compilers/imcc/syn/regressions.t in r26668.
18:26 Infinoid my only local modification is some explicit deps for role.pmc
18:27 Infinoid nopaste seems to be down
18:28 Coke Infinoid: what os?
18:28 Infinoid Linux x86-64
18:28 Infinoid http://pastebin.com/d82c35a1
18:28 Coke It makes sense, it's the same kind of thing I was skipping. those opcodes don't exist, presumably because we optimized them all away.
18:29 Infinoid I didn't pass any arguments to Configure.pl.  should I?
18:31 Coke for which now?
18:31 Infinoid for the failure in test 2 of t/compilers/imcc/syn/regressions.t
18:31 Coke no. I think my solution to the const folding is flawed. :|
18:31 Infinoid is parrot's optimization non-portable somehow?
18:31 Infinoid its odd that I'd see an issue when you aren't.
18:32 Coke yah, that's odd. but now that you're seeing it, I think I should be seeing it. :|
18:32 * Infinoid tries a couple other boxes to see how specific to his laptop it is
18:33 * Coke does a realclean to be sure.
18:34 Coke wiiiierd.
18:34 Coke jit?
18:34 purl rumour has it jit is a Just In Time compiler.  Or just more Java hype. or new Parrot hype
18:35 Infinoid I didn't think x86-64 had jit
18:35 Coke maybe that's the issue. =-)
18:35 * Infinoid is jit-clueless
18:35 Coke do me a favor and reopen the ticket I closed. :|
18:35 Infinoid hold on, trying on a couple of x86-32 boxes with nearly identical software setups
18:36 Infinoid is there a --without-jit or the like?
18:39 Infinoid passes on x86-32 default config
18:40 Coke or you could TODO the test on that one platform and put the ticket number into the todo. =-)
18:41 Infinoid if you don't think it'll show up anywhere else, I can do that
18:42 Infinoid if I back out r26657, the test still fails, but with a different error and a TODO tag.  so that wasn't as insightful as I had hoped :)
18:43 Infinoid is x86-64 the only supported platform missing jit?  can I somehow test for jit-ness, instead of making a list of broken platforms?
18:44 Coke Infinoid: note that the test changed slightly.
18:44 pmichaud I have a patch to add shift/unshift/push/pop/elems methods to RPA.  Should I commit it directly, or submit it to RT for review/discussion?
18:46 particle commit, then comment on list
18:46 pmichaud sounds good to me.
18:47 Coke i would say post the patch, but I think c already gave it a +1.
18:47 pmichaud he did
18:47 Coke I am inclined to vote against, but not strongly.
18:48 peeps[work] joined #parrot
18:48 Infinoid +0.33333333
18:48 purl 0.33333333
18:49 grim_fandango joined #parrot
18:49 pmichaud okay, I'll apply and comment.
18:51 Infinoid hmm.  amd64 does have a --jitcapable flag I'm supposed to pass, which supposedly turns jit on for me.  it has no effect on the test.
18:51 Coke k. was a wild stab.
18:51 dalek r26670 | pmichaud++ | trunk:
18:51 dalek : * Add shift, unshift, push, pop, and elems methods to ResizablePMCArray.
18:51 dalek diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn​/parrot/revision?rev=26670
18:53 Infinoid Coke: #43048 reopened, sorry :)
18:56 Coke sokay
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19:10 Coke Infinoid: what does $I0 = 0; $II = 1/ $I0 generate on your machine?
19:10 Coke (that should avoid the bad opcode but generate the div by zero error.)
19:12 Infinoid $II or $I1?
19:12 Infinoid error:imcc:'$II' is not a valid register name
19:12 Infinoid Divide by zero
19:14 Theory joined #parrot
19:16 dalek r26671 | pmichaud++ | trunk:
19:16 dalek : * Fix coding standards oops noted by chromatic++ .
19:16 dalek diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn​/parrot/revision?rev=26671
19:18 Coke weird.
19:20 Infinoid so yeah, that fixes the test for me
19:24 tewk There should be a syntax to expose a vtable call as a METHOD in pmcs.
19:25 tewk ie shift unshift etc
19:25 pmichaud that would be cool
19:26 pmichaud we already have a way in PIR of designating a method as a vtable entry
19:26 tewk It shouldn't be that hard, codegen like that is really what pmc2c.pl is for
19:27 tewk We should take the same sort of syntax as pir :method(method_export_name) or something
19:27 particle VTABLE METHOD get_bool
19:27 particle that'd be my vote
19:27 pmichaud no, we need a way to specify the method name
19:27 pmichaud i.e., I want 'shift', not 'shift_pmc'
19:27 pmichaud also, the METHODs need to conform to PCC
19:28 particle VTABLE METHOD("true") get_bool(...)
19:28 pmichaud (including autoboxing)
19:28 pmichaud so perhaps we really need the opposite
19:28 pmichaud METHOD VTABLE('get_bool') true(...)
19:28 pmichaud that would match imcc :-)
19:29 particle works for me, modulo the c syntax nit
19:29 pmichaud actually, now that I think of it, VTABLE METHOD("foo")   might make more sense
19:30 pmichaud creates a vtable entry and a corresponding wrapper method
19:30 tewk right
19:30 pmichaud ah well, I'll let you pmc2c.pl magicians handle it :-)
19:39 particle how do i get the length of a match inside a p5 regex?
19:41 particle $_ = 'foo: some variable-length text'; s/foo: (.*)/X*<length of $1>/
19:42 pmichaud probably use the /e flag
19:42 Tene particle: (?{ ... })
19:43 Tene or, yeah, /e
19:43 particle ah, right
19:43 Coke anyone know of an OS DRY-detector that works on something other than java? (CPD says you can just give it a file extension, but it fails to work.)
19:43 Tene oh, (?{}) might not be right...
19:43 Coke (or do I need to write one.)
19:44 Ademan joined #parrot
19:45 Infinoid DRY?
19:45 purl i heard DRY was Don't Repeat Yourself
19:45 pmichaud particle:  on gen_release_info.pl, might it make more sense to simply have a file that gets updated as part of release steps, rather than re-querying the svn repo?
19:45 particle sure, that could work, too
19:45 Coke I have a project at work where this would be extremely useful. But I can see it being helpful for parrot too. =-)
19:46 Coke pmichaud: does that imply storing that data in the repo?
19:46 pmichaud yes
19:46 Coke -1: the data is already IN the repo.
19:46 pmichaud in an easily parseable form?
19:46 particle it's metadata
19:48 pmichaud we could fix up the ChangeLog to provide what we're looking for
19:48 pmichaud we already have date + committer lines there -- we would just need release number and revision number
19:48 pmichaud (release number is there too, but not as easy to get to at the moment)
19:49 pmichaud changelog entries could be    2008.03.18   bernhard   0.6.0    r26142
19:49 * pmichaud notices that he forgot to update ChangeLog as part of the 0.5.3.  Bad pmichaud, no cookie.
19:51 particle extracting from the repo avoids human errors like yours
19:53 pmichaud we'd be more likely to notice the human error :-)
19:53 pmichaud anyway, it was just a thought.  I suppose bandwidth and electrons are cheap :-)
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20:26 dalek r26672 | pmichaud++ | trunk:
20:26 dalek : * Forgot to update the ChangeLog when I did the 0.5.3 release (pmichaud--).
20:26 dalek diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn​/parrot/revision?rev=26672
20:28 pmichaud particle: ping
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20:52 * jonathan yawns
20:53 Senaka joined #parrot
20:53 Senaka hi Infinoid
20:55 Senaka where can I find info on how to submit a patch to a bug?
20:55 pmichaud for parrot?
20:55 Senaka yes
20:56 pmichaud http://svn.perl.org/parrot/​trunk/docs/submissions.pod
20:57 Senaka thanks
20:58 pmichaud purl, submissions is http://svn.perl.org/parrot/​trunk/docs/submissions.pod
20:58 purl OK, pmichaud.
20:58 iblechbot joined #parrot
20:59 dalek r26673 | jonathan++ | trunk:
20:59 dalek : [PCT] Generalize iterator code in for loop to use iter rather than to create an Iterator object. This means that objects that want to supply their own iterators can do so.
20:59 dalek diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn​/parrot/revision?rev=26673
21:00 cotto_work purl, submissions is also http://www.parrotcode.org/docs/submissions.html
21:00 purl okay, cotto_work.
21:00 pmichaud there's an iter opcode?
21:03 Senaka ARGIN is used for a const input variable right?
21:03 dalek r26674 | jonathan++ | trunk:
21:03 dalek : [rakudo] Make rand actually likely to generate a different sequence of numbers between runs.
21:03 dalek diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn​/parrot/revision?rev=26674
21:04 pmichaud jonathan: ping
21:04 cotto_work joined #parrot
21:04 jonathan pmichaud: pong
21:04 jonathan Yes, there is.
21:04 pmichaud re-seeding on each call to 'rand' is likely wrong
21:05 dalek r26675 | jonathan++ | trunk:
21:05 dalek : [rakudo] More work on IO. Now we can iterate over a file handle and $*IN, $*OUT and $*ERR are available.
21:05 jonathan Probably.
21:05 dalek diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn​/parrot/revision?rev=26675
21:05 purl Really? Probably? Are you Certain it's not certain? Are you sure it's unsure? I think you need to look harder.
21:05 dalek r26676 | jonathan++ | trunk:
21:05 dalek : [rakudo] Bring STATUS document somewhat more up to date.
21:05 dalek diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn​/parrot/revision?rev=26676
21:05 jonathan I don't know what the right way to do it is, and I didn't really care much at the time, other than making my "guess the number" IO example program work. :-)
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21:05 pmichaud the problem with re-seeding based on time is that if rand is called multiple times quickly, it will always return the same number
21:06 jonathan Yeah, you're right.
21:06 jonathan My comment was entirely accurate. ;-)
21:06 pmichaud normally we seed once at the beginning of the process
21:06 jonathan Makes sense.
21:06 jonathan Can change it.
21:07 pmichaud I didn't know there was an iter opcode, that's cool.
21:07 jonathan Not sure the time is the right thing to seed it with.
21:07 jonathan Yeah, iter opcode calls the get_iter vtable method.
21:07 pmichaud yes, time has its own problems with seeding as well, but it's less wrong than re-seeding on every call :-)
21:07 jonathan Which is in turn less wrong, that not seeding at all and always getting the same number to guess in your guess the number game. :-)
21:08 jonathan Will post on rakudo.org :-)
21:08 cotto_work joined #parrot
21:08 * PerlJam hands jonathan a cup of entropy
21:08 * jonathan wishes it was a cup of beer
21:08 PerlJam I'd think you'd want a pint rather than a cup :)
21:09 jonathan A stein is even better, you can get a litre in one of those.
21:10 jonathan pmichaud: Hope the IO stuff looks vaguely OK.
21:10 jonathan It's at least part of an answer, to the discussion in the last conference call about the lack of it.
21:11 Senaka pmichaud: patch sent
21:11 Senaka thanks
21:12 pmichaud jonathan++  # great work
21:12 Coke This is a Python opcode. ## This should probably be removed then, neh?
21:12 jonathan Coke: Que opcode?
21:12 jonathan s/que/what/
21:12 Coke slice
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21:14 jonathan Didn't know it existed.
21:14 jonathan pmichaud: You still planning to come to YAPC::EU?
21:14 jonathan Someone should talk about Rakudo progress there.
21:14 * Coke hopes to go this year.
21:14 Coke can be the backup if so.
21:14 Coke ->
21:15 pmichaud jonathan: I'm coming if it can be funded somehow
21:15 jonathan I'm happy to give it.
21:15 pmichaud (and perhaps even if it isn't)
21:15 jonathan But need to get submissions in before the deadline.
21:15 pmichaud deadline is in may, yes?
21:15 jonathan Yeah, sure, but I'm away on vacation when the deadline is, so just trying to be organized.
21:20 jonathan I intend to speak at YAPC::EU, it's just helpful to know if one of my talks will be the Rakudo one, so I know how much else I need to dream up.
21:22 pmichaud I think I can work my talk(s) around any that you want to give
21:23 pmichaud if you send me a copy of your submission, I'll try to be sure not to conflict :-)
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21:29 particle pmichaud:  have you submitted anything for yapc::na?
21:30 jonathan I guess there should be a general "Rakudo Update" talk.
21:30 pmichaud particle:  yes
21:30 particle i'm thinking rakudo's 'main' is starting to look cluttered
21:30 jonathan Which while I'm very happy to do, feels like I'm nabbing off with your talk.
21:30 particle i think the new io code should be in a 'create_std_io_handles' sub
21:31 jonathan Since you're the Rakudo dev lead.
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21:31 jonathan particle: Feel free to refactor.
21:31 particle pmichaud: same as oscon?
21:31 pmichaud particle:  I basically did the same as osc.... right
21:31 particle ok. we can split that, too, like oscon
21:31 pmichaud but I also sent additional comments
21:31 particle it's a good way to polish it up
21:32 pmichaud just a sec while I check
21:32 pmichaud jonathan: I'm more than happy to let others who are qualified do a "Rakudo Update" talk, unless the community really expects to hear it from me
21:32 pmichaud I can find plenty of other talks
21:33 pmichaud but I think that talks about the process of contributing to Rakudo could be even better
21:33 pmichaud for example, I _really_ enjoyed your .net on parrot talk last year at oscon
21:33 pmichaud I think a talk about junctions in Rakudo, or objects/classes, or any of those might be interesting
21:35 pmichaud particle:  here's the comment I added to my talk proposals
21:35 pmichaud At the conference I'm wanting to do 2 or 3 talks regarding Rakudo (the Parrot implementation of Perl 6) and the new Parrot Compiler Toolkit. I'm submitting potential abstracts here, but I can easily change my talks to other relevant topics if there are others proposing a topic similar to this one.
21:36 pmichaud so if others propose talks substantially the same as what I proposed, I'm willing to change my talks
21:36 particle ok. any timeline on the talks?
21:36 particle that might help josh et al with slot-picking
21:37 jonathan pmichaud: The European Perl Community have heard me talk a lot already from me about Perl 6 classes and roles - I've run that talk for a while...
21:37 pmichaud I think I did 45 mins for the Rakudo update and 70 mins for PCT
21:37 jonathan The difference now being that, a lot of what I showed in the talk is implemented.
21:37 pmichaud jonathan: good point, I forgot you already did those :-)
21:38 jonathan Junctions - yes, *but* only if they're implemented.
21:38 jonathan Like, properly. By YAPC::EU. :-)
21:38 pmichaud oh, I was thinking of turning my attention to junctions again soon
21:38 jonathan And for that, we need the type hierarchy refactor, and type based MMD.
21:39 jonathan And that in turn I am pretty sure, means we need to start using .HLL.
21:39 pmichaud I don't think we need HLL for that.  The type-based MMD we have already isn't sufficient?
21:39 particle pmichaud: did you update the makefile template when you ripped out P6Regex?
21:40 pmichaud particle:  I think I did, yes.  I might've missed something.  You might need to re-configure :_)
21:40 particle that's what i'll try next
21:40 particle i have a broken build atm
21:40 pmichaud yes, several makefiles got updated
21:40 * teknomunk is away: Gone away for now.
21:41 pmichaud jonathan: anyway, I'm flexible on talks.  In many ways I'd like to do the "State of Rakudo" talk (and it may be expected of me if I'm in attendance) but I'm also wanting to let as many other people as possible give talks
21:41 jonathan pmichaud: I'm trying to remember my reasoning; I did think through a chunk of this stuff.
21:41 pmichaud I'm being called for dinner .. bbl
21:41 jonathan ok
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23:34 dalek r26677 | coke++ | trunk:
23:34 dalek : [build]
23:34 dalek : pmc's used to depend on PCCMETHOD generation module: now that PCCMETHOD is spelled
23:34 dalek : 'METHOD', update this so the makefile dep is properly generated again.
23:34 dalek diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn​/parrot/revision?rev=26677
23:35 Infinoid before I forget to mention it, ewilhelm++ ewilhelm++ ewilhelm++ # for all the SoC cat-herding
23:38 Coke Infinoid: I am working on the pmc deps.
23:38 Coke just fixed another one that got broken during pdd17.
23:39 Infinoid Coke: are you having to add them by hand?  I was meaning to figure out if its possible to automate all that stuff
23:55 cotto_work it looks like the explicit pmc_* includes in several of the PMCs are unnecessary
23:55 cotto_work the only necessary ones seem to be pmc_class in object.pmc and pmc_object in class.pmc
23:56 Coke http://pastebin.com/m65451335
23:56 cotto_work none of the others are needed for a successful build, and I'm confirming that make test is still happy
23:56 Coke Infinoid: there. nearly done.
23:56 Coke testing now on linux & windows.
23:57 Sartak joined #parrot
23:57 Coke whoops. moment...
23:59 cotto_work make test is happy
23:59 Infinoid hmm.  aren't they all "pmc_<something>.h"?
23:59 cotto_work (apart from some unrelated codingstd stuff)

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