Camelia, the Perl 6 bug

IRC log for #parrot, 2008-04-07

Parrot | source cross referenced

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:16 braceta left #parrot
00:21 Coke jonathan, particl1: jonathan, you want to mentor the perl6 test guy?
00:22 kid51 joined #parrot
00:45 wknight8111 #51980
00:45 wknibot joined #parrot
00:45 wknight8111 #51980
00:45 wknibot The link is at: http://rt.perl.org/rt3/Publi​c/Bug/Display.html?id=51980
00:45 wknight8111 better!
00:51 Infinoid if you have an RT account, http://rt.perl.org/rt3/Tic​ket/Display.html?id=51980 is a heck of a lot more useful than http://rt.perl.org/rt3/Publi​c/Bug/Display.html?id=51980
00:52 wknight8111 oh, i see that now that I compare the two. I couldn't figure out why there were "reply" links sometimes and not others
00:52 Infinoid heh.  annoying, isn't it?
00:52 Infinoid loathe Public/Bug/
00:52 wknight8111 I'm a case study in the failure of users to find and read documentation
00:53 Infinoid wuh
00:53 Infinoid RT has documentation?!
00:53 wknight8111 well, i certainly failed to find it
00:53 Infinoid so have I.
00:53 wknibot joined #parrot
00:53 Infinoid no worries :)
00:54 cotto_home now that that's working, I'd appreciate some comments on #52478
00:54 wknibot The link is at: http://rt.perl.org/rt3/Public​/Ticket/Display.html?id=52478
00:55 cotto_home wknight8111++
00:55 Infinoid s,Public/,,
00:56 wknight8111 yay! more karma!
00:56 wknight8111 urg, more errors!
00:56 wknibot joined #parrot
00:57 kid51 Infinoid:  I've confirmed that the ops2c tests pass on both Linux and Darwin.
00:57 Infinoid great, someone else confirmed win32 too
00:57 kid51 Is there any other work that needs to be done in this branch?
00:57 Infinoid I don't know.  I asked that on the ticket.
00:57 * kid51 looks at RT
00:57 Infinoid there's nothing on my list that I care about enough to keep this out of trunk
00:58 Infinoid #52506
00:58 wknibot The link is at: http://rt.perl.org/rt3/Tic​ket/Display.html?id=52506
00:58 Infinoid wknight8111++
01:01 Infinoid cotto_home: sorry, it's over my head.  but do you think its possible to get the semantics you need through subclassing?
01:02 kid51 Okay, I think you're correct in that this can be merged into trunk.  Your remaining questions don't pose any obstacle to merging into trunk.
01:02 Infinoid polymorphism is definitely something that some languages like more than others
01:02 kid51 Assuming it's okay with you, I'll prepare a merge.
01:02 Infinoid great, thanks!
01:02 kid51 Then I'll look at the other questions over the next  week.
01:02 Infinoid (if they're even worth it.  I was trying really hard to find TODO items.)
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01:04 Infinoid anyway, was fun having my own branch for a day, thanks for managing it for me.
01:04 Infinoid The kid51 giveth, and the kid51 taketh away.
01:04 kid51 No, they're valid.  Ex.:  The tests were among my first contributions to the project, so I was being extra cautious.  Hence, the boilerplate.
01:05 Infinoid I don't know if its worth splitting out the helper functions into a separate module, but I was kinda getting that urge while going through them
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01:08 kid51 Well, they're probably not used anywhere else.  Which is an argument against splitting them out.
01:09 kid51 Sometimes it's good to split things out simply to keep files to a manageable length.
01:09 kid51 We're probably at an edge case here.
01:09 Infinoid I'm a big fan of keeping helper .pm files with the tests they are used by, but I don't see any of that happening in the parrot tree...
01:10 kid51 Do you mean .pm files that are used exclusively by t/*.t files?
01:11 kid51 I've had a few of them over time, but they've tended to evolve out of existence.
01:11 kid51 Otherwise, no, all our tests are under t/ and all our modules are under lib/Parrot/ or config/ or such.
01:11 guru left #parrot
01:11 * kid51 runs final tests on merged branch
01:12 * kid51 starts cooking dinner
01:16 dalek r26829 | rgrjr++ | trunk:
01:16 dalek : * docs/pdds/draft/pdd06_pasm.pod:
01:16 dalek :    + Remove refs to old pad ops.
01:16 dalek : * docs/pdds/pdd03_calling_conventions.pod:
01:16 dalek :    + Remove unmatched ")".
01:16 dalek diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn​/parrot/revision?rev=26829
01:16 wknight8111 has anybody taken a look at #48549? I don't have bison to test it, but i think it should work
01:16 wknibot The link is at: http://rt.perl.org/rt3/Tic​ket/Display.html?id=48549
01:29 dalek r26830 | jkeenan++ | trunk:
01:29 dalek : Merging ops2c branch into trunk.  See
01:29 dalek : https://rt.perl.org/rt3/Ti​cket/Display.html?id=52506.  Refactors code within
01:29 dalek : Parrot::Ops2c::Utils and makes necessary adjustments in tests,
01:29 dalek : tools/build/ops2c.pl and MANIFEST.  infinoid++
01:30 dalek diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn​/parrot/revision?rev=26830
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01:35 dalek r26831 | jkeenan++ | ops2c:
01:35 dalek : Branch has been merged into trunk and is no longer needed at HEAD; removing.
01:35 dalek diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn​/parrot/revision?rev=26831
01:36 dalek r26832 | jkeenan++ | ops2c-26806:
01:36 dalek : Branch corresponding to tag has been deleted.  Hence, tag is no longer needed.
01:36 dalek diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn​/parrot/revision?rev=26832
01:36 Infinoid kid51++
01:46 Infinoid wknight8111: thanks for the reply
01:57 wknight8111 no worries, I'm working on the patch now.
01:58 wknight8111 what do we do in the off-chance that PARROT_HAS_SNPRINTF, PARROT_HAS_C99_SNPRINTF and _MSC_VER are all undefined?
01:58 wknight8111 in that case, there will be no snprintf available at all
01:58 wknight8111 such a situation might be impossible in practice, i dont know
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02:03 Infinoid in that case, if we don't have one of our own, we're screwed
02:04 Infinoid do we have one?
02:04 Infinoid if not, maybe fall back on sprintf, maybe Configure.pl tosses an error
02:04 Infinoid "Error: you don't have snprintf, get a real C library"
02:05 wknight8111 let me double-check what the capabilities are for Parrot_secret_snprintf
02:06 wknight8111 no, Parrot_secret_snprintf relies on vsnprintf, which likely doesnt exist if a variant of snprintf doesnt
02:06 Infinoid probably not, indeed.
02:07 Infinoid of course, I have an implementation, but its pretty minimal, probably better to get the user thinking about why their system is broken
02:08 Infinoid anyway, will Parrot_secret_snprintf even build and link, if snprintf/vsnprintf are missing?
02:08 wknight8111 no, it wont
02:09 wknight8111 Darwin, MSWin, and most *Nix should have it, but i'm not familar with all the other systems that Parrot targets
02:09 Infinoid its the weird ones that keep us up at night
02:10 wknight8111 it's keeping me up tonight
02:12 wknight8111 Parrot_secret_snprintf relies on the macro BLAHBLAHBLAH_WAS_A_CHECK_FOR_VNSNPRINTF, what I can't find used anywhere else
02:12 wknight8111 i'm not entirely certain it's even a real macro, and not just a placeholder
02:14 wknight8111 this is what I get for trying to fix a simple compiler warning: endless nonsense, problems with no answers, macros that don't make sense, etc
02:24 Infinoid some are definitely easier than others. :)
02:35 Infinoid I love the "BLAHBLAHBLAH_WAS_A_CHECK_FOR_VNSNPRINTF" btw
02:36 Infinoid gives you lost of confidence to find that sitting in src/
02:36 Infinoid vnsnprintf() doesn't even exist, as far as I know :P
02:36 Infinoid (and if it does, I dunno what the extra "n" stands for)
02:38 wknight8111 i gave up on hunting, I'm doing a quick build.
02:40 wknight8111 urg. compile warning in src/pmc/pointer.pmc: snprintf is undefined there. I'll try to solve that one too
02:40 wknight8111 compilers/imcc/instructions.c too
02:41 wknight8111 lots of places actually. This is turning into a big job
02:43 Infinoid you'll be making the world a better place, even if you just take 'em one at a time
03:06 diakopter Infinoid: botnix's ram usage groweth. <sigh>
03:10 Infinoid urgh.  why?
03:10 purl well, urgh. why is vim pumping out capital letters when i try to use the arrows to move around in insert mode??
03:10 Infinoid purl, forget urgh. why
03:10 purl Infinoid: I forgot urgh. why
03:15 wknight8111 purl may not be helpful, but at least he listens
03:15 purl wknight8111: huh?
03:15 wknight8111 you heard what i said
03:38 dalek r26833 | chromatic++ | trunk:
03:38 dalek : [library] Robustified Test::More include library in the face of .namespace
03:38 dalek : directives.
03:38 purl : directives are not mentioned.
03:38 dalek diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn​/parrot/revision?rev=26833
03:42 dalek r26834 | chromatic++ | trunk:
03:42 dalek : [library] Improved test plan handling in Test::Builder; previously the ability
03:42 dalek : to share a single test plan across multiple Test::Builder objects was too
03:42 dalek : fragile.  If you don't immediately know what this means, good -- you shouldn't
03:42 dalek : have to, and this changes makes it more likely that you'll never have to.
03:43 dalek diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn​/parrot/revision?rev=26834
03:43 Infinoid purl, forget directives
03:43 purl Infinoid, I didn't have anything matching directives
03:43 Infinoid purl, forget : directives
03:43 purl Infinoid: what?
03:43 Infinoid purl, forget : directives.
03:43 purl Infinoid: i'm not following you...
03:50 dalek r26835 | rgrjr++ | trunk:
03:50 dalek : * examples/pir/hanoi.pir:
03:50 dalek :    + Use proper PIR subroutine calling instead of bsr/ret, and (not
03:50 dalek :      incidentally) flush save/restore use as well.
03:50 dalek diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn​/parrot/revision?rev=26835
04:07 dalek r26836 | chromatic++ | trunk:
04:07 dalek : [library] Added Test::Class port to PIR.  The API may change, but it works.
04:07 dalek diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn​/parrot/revision?rev=26836
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05:17 Senaka hi all, regarding topic! "YAPC::NA talks deadline is Mar 31 | http://tinyurl.com/2pmnlq" is out-dated isn't it?
05:19 cotto_home mmmm. driveby
05:35 cotto_home #50878
05:36 cotto_home I think http://rt.perl.org/rt3/Publi​c/Bug/Display.html?id=50878 can safely be closed
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07:12 spinclad msg purl fail?
07:12 purl Message for purl stored.
07:13 cotto_home Don't bother.  He never reads them.
07:13 spinclad (oop) /msg works better
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08:53 jonathan Coke: may be up for helping out with that.
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09:41 rotty` seen barney
09:41 purl barney was last seen on #parrot 21 hours and 22 minutes ago, saying: Senaka: Sorry, I never dug into GC
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10:49 dalek r26837 | jonathan++ | trunk:
10:49 dalek : [rakudo] Fix inheritance from Any and remove the nasty hack.
10:49 dalek diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn​/parrot/revision?rev=26837
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11:40 Topic for #parrotis now Parrot 0.6.0 "P&P" released | Please mentor for SoC | http://parrotcode.org/
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11:51 Senaka anyone who knows abt GC arnd?
11:51 Senaka have a few Questions
11:51 Senaka :)
11:54 rotty` seen barney
11:54 purl barney was last seen on #parrot 23 hours and 34 minutes ago, saying: Senaka: Sorry, I never dug into GC
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12:21 dalek r26838 | jonathan++ | trunk:
12:21 dalek : [rakudo] Add missing Subset.pir file.
12:21 dalek diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn​/parrot/revision?rev=26838
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14:28 diakopter Infinoid: dalek increases its ram usage every time it polls (not just every time it finds a new entry).  Any memory leak diagnosis ideas?
14:28 Coke Is the source somewhere we can look?
14:31 Coke feather://~infinoid/botnix/modules/local?
14:33 Coke I don't see anything screamingly obvious.
14:35 Coke seen particleE?
14:36 purl I haven't seen 'particleE', Coke
14:36 Coke seen particlE?
14:36 purl particlE was last seen on #parrot 2 days and 18 hours ago, saying: at the vm level, we know what we're doing when we write $I0 = $S0  [Apr  4 13:39:11 2008]
14:52 Infinoid diakopter: the code is pretty simple, and it doesn't keep anything around... I guess its gotta be a leak in the RSS libraries
14:52 Infinoid Devel::Leak might help.
14:53 Infinoid fortunately it's pretty easy to make this code standalone for leak testing
14:53 Infinoid I'll take a look.
15:11 Infinoid diakopter: yowch.  10 runs of modules::local::svnlog::fetch_rss(), 28118 scalars leaked.  20 runs, 56248 scalars leaked.
15:12 diakopter Infinoid: wow :D
15:13 moritz that's quite a number ;)
15:16 Infinoid I comment out "my $rss = XML::RAI->parse_string($response->content);", number drops to 0.
15:16 Infinoid (plus or minus a few)
15:17 Infinoid sigh.  now I get to figure out which XML/RSS library is leaking
15:31 Infinoid looks like XML::Elemental leaks 2 scalars per XML node.
15:37 Infinoid ...but not the version of XML::Elemental that's on feather.  oh well.
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16:03 Juerd 17:11 <@Infinoid> diakopter: yowch.  10 runs of  modules::local::svnlog::fetch_rss(), 28118 scalars leaked.   20 runs, 56248 scalars leaked.
16:03 Juerd That is rather impressive!
16:06 Infinoid still debugging.  but it seems that in the more recent versions of things, the backend libraries have been fixed, and there's a new (even worse) leak in XML::RAI itself
16:07 Infinoid feather had newer versions of these libraries than my laptop did, so I was barking up the wrong tree for a while
16:12 Dave joined #parrot
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16:37 Infinoid diakopter: think I fixed it, please re-test
16:37 Senaka joined #parrot
16:46 particle what's going on with parrotvm.org?
16:46 particle shoot. jonathan sure is good at breaking configure.
16:54 Infinoid diakopter: http://rt.cpan.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=34740
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17:05 diakopter particle: what about parrotvm.org
17:06 particle the server at www.parrotvm.org is taking too long to respond.
17:07 PerlJam joined #parrot
17:07 diakopter particle: it takes a while for each revision to get cached by SVN::Web (until then it's slow)
17:08 particle i haven't been able to use it all morning
17:08 particle the connection times out
17:08 dalek left #parrot
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17:08 particle http://www.parrotvm.org/svn​/parrot/revision?rev=26822
17:09 diakopter after the first poll, 37800KB usage
17:10 diakopter sometimes some revisions are just plain too big/complex for the html diff... I dunno why.  Was a lot changed with that revision?  wait, it just loaded for me.
17:10 particle i'll try again
17:11 * diakopter wonders what else to do with that domain name
17:11 Infinoid particle: working great here (california)
17:15 diakopter Infinoid: memory usage holding steady at 37912KB.  Juerd, also.
17:21 Theory joined #parrot
17:26 Infinoid diakopter: how bad did it get last time?
17:50 diakopter very high.  300-something
17:54 Infinoid proof of sentience: purl pings out just like the rest of us
17:55 Infinoid great.  anyway, I submitted the fix to the XML::RAI guy
17:55 purl joined #parrot
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18:14 rotty barney: ping
18:20 barney rotty: pong
18:21 rotty barney: I've been looking at eclectus lately, and have a few questions
18:21 barney Fire away
18:22 rotty any particuliar reason you use petite chez for bootstrapping?
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18:22 barney I have started with a tutorial by Abdul Aziz, he was using petite
18:23 rotty (I wonder esp. because petite is closed-source)
18:23 rotty I have also started with that tutorial, and only when I had a minimal compiler I saw eclectus ;)
18:24 * Coke tries to remember if he ever opened a ticket for his suggestion about simplifying the ops syntax.
18:25 barney Cool. Starting with petite was just a practical option. Especially as never did any Scheme before.
18:25 * particle doesn't remember reading a ticket about that, coke
18:26 rotty barney: ah, you come from the perl side?
18:26 * rotty is not a Perl hacker
18:26 barney Yes
18:27 rotty barney: would you accept patches that make eclectus bootstrappable with, say mzscheme (in addition to petite)?
18:28 Infinoid Coke: the one about the "goto NEXT()" part?  or something else?
18:28 barney Next step for Eclectus is to generate NQP, instead of PIR
18:28 * rotty already has a simple, but largish patch that simplifies the PAST generation
18:28 rotty nqp?
18:28 purl nqp is not quite perl (6)
18:28 rotty where can I read about nqp?
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18:29 barney rotty: Sure. Just send the patch to parrotbug@perl.org
18:29 barney Eventually Eclectus should bootstrap itself
18:29 particle rotty: look at http://svn.perl.org/parrot/​trunk/docs/submissions.pod for more info
18:30 barney parrotbug@parrotcode.org it is
18:31 rotty barney: sure (re self-bootstrapping)
18:31 barney rotty: look at languages/perl6 and languages/lolcode and http://www.parrotblog.org/200​8/03/targeting-parrot-vm.html
18:32 rotty barney: would you mind changing the Scheme code style to avoid '[]' brackets - they are not R5RS...
18:32 ambs joined #parrot
18:32 rotty (I'd do a patch for [] -> ())
18:32 barney no problem
18:32 rotty cool
18:33 barney rotty: so you actually know Scheme?
18:34 rotty barney: yes
18:35 rotty My biggest real-life Scheme project was a rewrite of G-Wrap (http://www.nongnu.org/g-wrap/)
18:37 barney Ah, reminds me of SWIG
18:37 rotty (and I've done s42 - which is bitrotting ATM: http://hacks-galore.org/darcs/?r​=scheme42;a=plainblob;f=/README)
18:37 shorten rotty's url is at http://xrl.us/bi2iv
18:38 rotty yes, it's job is the same as SWIG's
18:38 rotty s/it's/its/
18:39 rotty barney: where can I best read about NQP?
18:40 barney languages/perl6 uses NQP, Not quite perl6, for Parser actions
18:41 barney code and docs are in compilers/nqp
18:41 rotty ah
18:42 particle there's a tutorial on writing a language using the parrot compiler toolkit, which involves writing in nqp, at parrotblog.org
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18:48 * barney will be back later, need to do some paid hacking
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19:23 Coke Infinoid: yes, that one.
19:23 Infinoid Coke: cool.  I actually did some work on that, but didn't get it working yet
19:24 Coke Ok. I also have a sandbox with some effort in that direction. We should compare notes before committing. =-)
19:24 Infinoid seems ops2c replaces "goto NEXT()" with something else when creating the .c file, so the "goto NEXT()" I inserted wasn't parsed correctly
19:25 Coke I think you have to insert it sooner than later.
19:25 nopaste "Infinoid" at 96.238.213.50 pasted "My attempt" (1706 lines) at http://nopaste.snit.ch/12637
19:25 Infinoid or just insert whatever's right for the selected core, I guess
19:26 Coke isn't that :base_core,next not :base_core:next ?
19:26 particle Infinoid: that's correct
19:26 Infinoid ... that would require proper attribute parsing, rather than the hackish regex used elsewhere in ops2c.
19:26 particle attribute parsing could be stolen from pmc2c
19:27 particle almost all the parsing could be stolen from pmc2c
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19:28 Infinoid see the bottom of the diff for the changes to Ops2c::Utils
19:28 Coke we don't need full on attribute parsing, I think.
19:28 Infinoid I think if I had gotten that right, the rest of it would work
19:28 Coke http://www.coleda.com/tmp/ops.diff
19:29 Coke (all non-ops changes near the bottom, as in yours)
19:29 Infinoid ah, reversal of flags, optimises nicely for the common case
19:30 Coke mmm. still doesn't compile yet.
19:30 Infinoid neither does mine.
19:30 Coke muahaahaha
19:30 Infinoid and I'm not likely to have time to work on it soon, so please, fire away :)
19:31 Coke will probably poke more after work.
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19:46 * barney tests with deleted PAST-pm
19:48 Coke ... ah. my failure was a simple one: missing the trailing ";" in my substitution.
19:52 rotty mails to parrotbug@parrotcode.org will show up in http://rt.perl.org, right?
19:52 Coke if you're opening a new ticket, yes.
19:53 rotty how long does it normally take to show up?
19:53 Coke if you're not subscribed to the list, requires human intervention.
19:54 rotty the perl6-internals list?
19:54 Coke hurm. actually, it's coming from RT itself, but yah, might require some intervention.
19:54 Coke "YMMV"
19:54 Coke Infinoid: my patched patch fails only codingstd tests.
19:54 Infinoid great!
19:55 barney Is there a way to force a 'perl Configure.pl' after a 'svn up' ? Removing 'compilers/past-pm' breaks 'make'.
19:55 Infinoid can you apply your patch to your other patch, and then apply the result to parrot?
19:56 rotty barney: why has each .t file an .pl companion that's the same for each .t file?
19:56 Coke Infinoid: I'm going to submit to RT as a patch instead of applying it directly.
19:56 Coke if you want to try it, take my original patch, and near the "unless" add in NEXT();, not just NEXT()
19:57 Infinoid oh, ok
19:57 barney That a nasty workaround such that "cd languages ; perl t/harness languages='eclectus'" works
19:58 barney languages/t/harness does not know about test scripts written in Scheme
19:58 rotty I see
19:59 rotty because if we should support another Scheme than Petite, each of these files has to be changed
19:59 dalek r26839 | coke++ | trunk:
19:59 dalek : [codingstd] remove trailing whitespace
19:59 dalek diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn​/parrot/revision?rev=26839
20:00 rotty barney: couldn't these files at least do something like C '#include' ?
20:00 barney I wanted to use symlinks, but that's probably not portable.
20:00 * rotty should learn some perl soonish ;)
20:01 barney Perl 5's 'do' should do the trick
20:01 dalek r26840 | coke++ | trunk:
20:01 dalek : [codingstd] fixup pir coda
20:01 dalek diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn​/parrot/revision?rev=26840
20:02 barney rotty: You need to learn Perl 5, in order to appreciate Perl 6 :=)
20:02 rotty anybody knowing a good perl tutorial for "seasoned hackers"?
20:03 rotty (perl5 that is)
20:05 pmichaud I learned perl (4) from "Programming Perl" (the pink camel).
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20:05 pmichaud As I read it, I kept laughing and saying "Wow, that's just too easy/cool"
20:05 Coke Q: Should the c_operators test care about the spaces after commas in ops declarations? (inline op foo(bar, baz) :flag1,flag2 ?
20:05 Tene I learned from one of oreilly's perl books.
20:06 * rotty is looking for something freely available online
20:07 Coke "perldoc perl"
20:07 Juerd diakopter, Infinoid: thanks!
20:07 PerlJam rotty: learn.perl.org  # start there
20:08 Juerd Infinoid: Re how bad it got: feather was rebooted yesterday because it had consumed all memory and swap space, and essential system processes were killed. :)
20:09 Juerd Infinoid: In any case it is great that it is solved now
20:09 ambs joined #parrot
20:09 grim_fandango joined #parrot
20:09 Infinoid Juerd: I'm really sorry about that
20:09 barney Coke: no
20:09 davidfetter boa noite, ambs
20:09 ambs Hi, davidfetter
20:09 particle coke: what is :flag1,flag2 as opposed to :flag1 :flag2?
20:09 Juerd Infinoid: It's okay. But please consider using ulimit to prevent such things in the future.
20:10 * particle wants the colon
20:10 davidfetter i don't suppose anybody here has a dvd of 'tropa de elite'
20:10 * davidfetter looking for a short "fair use" clip for an upcoming presentation...
20:10 Juerd Infinoid: feather is deliberately not limited by default, because sometimes it can be very useful to take, say, 800 MB of RAM if you know it is available.
20:11 rotty barney: I'll do a patch which replaces each t/*.pl file with a "do 'driver.pl';", ok?
20:11 Coke particle: I'm just using the existing syntax.
20:11 Infinoid diakopter: sounds like a good idea.  want to ulimit dalek?
20:11 particle that .ops syntax is annoyingly different from .pmc syntax
20:11 barney Anybody mind If I break things by removing PAST-pm?  'perl Configure.pl' should fix things again.
20:12 barney rotty: Wunderbar
20:12 purl Wunderbar is having a bratwurst stuck up my ass while i am in a drunken stupor when camping
20:12 pmichaud barney:  what breaks?
20:12 purl breaks are good. trym's brain takes a few of them.. without me asking it to
20:12 Infinoid purl is on a roll
20:12 particle barney: go ahead. send a mail to p2 with "[svn ci] reconfig required after removing PAST-pm" or whatever
20:12 barney make realclean,   possibly 'make'
20:12 particle pmichaud: the makefile
20:12 purl the makefile is now bugfree now just fix the app side :)
20:13 pmichaud sure, if it's just the makefile, then I'd say break away
20:13 pmichaud I do a realclean about 3 times daily anyway :-)
20:13 * particle considers updating NEWS to a recent revision
20:14 particle ...maybe later. too much else to do now.
20:14 Coke barney: does this resolve the ticket in DEPRECATED.pod ?
20:14 pmichaud I think it should
20:14 * particle fights with perltidy
20:15 barney Yes
20:15 dalek r26841 | bernhard++ | trunk:
20:15 dalek : #48030: [DEPRECATED] compilers/PAST-pm, Parrot/HLLCompiler.pir
20:15 dalek : Removing compilers/past-pm.
20:15 dalek : 'perl Configure.pl' is required.
20:16 dalek diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn​/parrot/revision?rev=26841
20:16 pmichaud bernhard++ bernhard++
20:16 pmichaud shall I close #48030 ?
20:18 Coke ... why does languages/perl6/src/classes/Subset.pir   keep showing up in the MANIFEST? =-)
20:18 particle it's in the repo now innit?
20:18 particle and NOT in the manifest
20:18 particle jonathan--
20:18 particle he did a partial commit from his working copy without manually editing the manifest before commit
20:19 pmichaud it's in both the repo and the manifest on my system
20:19 pmichaud i.e., it's correct as of r26841
20:19 particle then after doing the second commit (and after allison++ corrected the earlier MANIFEST breakage) he failed to update MANIFEST
20:20 particle is it in perl6's config/makefile/root.in too?
20:20 barney pmichaud: Yes
20:20 pmichaud particle: yes
20:20 particle good.
20:20 pmichaud barney: is that "yes" to "closing #48030"?
20:20 pmichaud barney: did you want me to close it?
20:20 pmichaud barney: did you want to close it?
20:21 * pmichaud once again has too many conversations going on at once.
20:21 barney pmichaud: I'll close it after 'make fulltest'
20:21 pmichaud barney: excellent, thanks
20:21 particle yay. fulltest++
20:22 particle next week's release should be fun. i will have just landed in hawaii before starting it up
20:22 pmichaud mmmm hawaii-i-want-to-go :-)
20:22 Infinoid the release name should reflect that somehow :)
20:23 particle parrot 0.6.1, "just landed in hawaii"
20:23 Infinoid and boy is its arms tired.
20:23 dalek r26842 | bernhard++ | trunk:
20:23 dalek : Let SVN ignore generated file MANIFEST.configure.generated
20:23 dalek diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn​/parrot/revision?rev=26842
20:23 particle http://www.alohaparrot.com/
20:26 * particle considers renaming debugging.pod to avian_disaster_preparedness_tips.pod
20:28 ewilhelm delousing
20:31 dalek r26843 | fperrad++ | trunk:
20:31 dalek : [random]
20:31 dalek : - add a PIR version of the Mersenne Twisted pseudorandom number generator (MT19937)
20:31 dalek : This algorithm was used by language Python, PHP, Ruby, ...
20:31 dalek : See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mersenne_twister
20:31 dalek diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn​/parrot/revision?rev=26843
20:37 rotty barney: "perl t/harness languages='eclectus'" seems to run all languages' tests
20:38 buchet joined #parrot
20:41 barney perl t/harness --languages='eclectus,perl6'
20:41 rotty eclectus/t/vectors..............error:imcc:No such file or directory
20:42 barney The 'do' might be relative to current working dir
20:43 rotty this is without the patch applied
20:43 rotty what is imcc, anyway?
20:43 purl hmmm... imcc is the c of parrot or the problem or the intermediate code compiler
20:44 barney Did you do: cd languages/eclectus ; make    ?
20:44 rotty yes:
20:45 rotty gkar:~/src/parrot/languages/eclectus% make
20:45 rotty make: Nothing to be done for `default'.
20:45 rotty
20:45 particle perhaps make clean all test
20:46 barney Does    cd languages/eclectus ; make test           work?
20:46 rotty no
20:47 rotty it used to
20:47 rotty strange
20:48 rotty ah, it seems I did the equivalent of a 'make clean' while doing stgit (stacked git) stuff
20:48 rotty sorry
20:49 barney pmichaud: Parrot/HLLCompiler is still used by some languages and Modules
20:54 * barney calling it a day, looking forward to rotty's patches
21:02 dalek r26844 | fperrad++ | trunk:
21:02 dalek : [random]
21:02 dalek : fix codingstd
21:02 dalek diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn​/parrot/revision?rev=26844
21:06 cotto_work isn't the typeof PIR opcode being deprecated?
21:07 PerlJam cotto_work: in favor of what exactly?
21:07 cotto_work I'd assume in favor of name, but there are 165 instances of it currently in the code, so it's obviously not a high-priority item atm
21:09 particle cotto: is hank back?
21:10 cotto_work He would be, but his mother died.
21:10 Coke the integer version is.
21:10 cotto_work He'll be in Holland for the week.
21:10 Coke typeof_i_p is going away.
21:10 particle oh. sorry to hear it. :(
21:10 cotto_work Were you curious about something unrelated to me or the phparray code (or just curious)?
21:10 particle i'll be in hawaii the following week, but hopefully we can meet at the end of the month
21:12 particle allison introduced hank and i via email. we're due to meet sometime and discuss setting up some smokers for parrot
21:12 cotto_work he mentioned that something like that was in the works
21:12 particle i expect you and i will meet too
21:13 cotto_work I'm 3 offices down from him.  It'd be a shame not to.
21:14 particle indeed
21:17 davidfetter joined #parrot
21:31 Theory joined #parrot
22:03 Limbic_Region joined #parrot
22:04 rdice joined #parrot
22:13 particle t\01-sanity\07-simple-multisubs....push_pmc() not implemented in class 'Closure'
22:13 particle current instr.: 'parrot;PCT::HLLCompiler;evalpmc' pc -180260 ((unknown file):-1)
22:13 particle t\01-sanity\07-simple-multisubs....dubious
22:17 kid51 joined #parrot
22:19 jonathan hi all
22:19 jonathan particle: breakage to Rakudo is likely my fault, let me see if I get that failure here too...
22:20 kid51 Howdy, jonathan, you fine fellow
22:20 * kid51 said it 'cause purl no longer says it
22:20 jonathan I've been running the tests before check-ins though...
22:20 kid51 Coke:  ping
22:20 jonathan kid51: hi :-)
22:21 jonathan particle: t\01-sanity\07-simple-multisubs....ok
22:26 Infinoid hmm.  failing t/library/mt19937ar.t on linux/amd64
22:29 Infinoid had to build runtime/parrot/library/Math/Random/mt19937ar.pbc by hand, then the tests pass.
22:30 skids joined #parrot
22:35 dalek r26845 | jkeenan++ | trunk:
22:35 dalek : Delete commented-out lines.
22:35 dalek diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn​/parrot/revision?rev=26845
22:35 jonathan Dammit, anyone got the rakudo.org posting URL handy?
22:35 kid51 purl rakudo.org
22:35 purl i guess rakudo.org is going to expire in 4 days
22:36 jonathan Please can someone put a subtle link to the login page on the gecking homepage, so I don't have this "fun" everytime I want to post from a machine I've not posted from before, which doesn't have the magic URL in the address bar history...
22:37 kid51 purl rakudo.org is http://rakudo.org
22:37 purl ...but rakudo.org is going to expire in 4 days...
22:37 kid51 purl forget rakudo.org
22:37 purl kid51: I forgot rakudo.org
22:37 kid51 purl rakudo.org is http://rakudo.org
22:37 purl OK, kid51.
22:37 kid51 purl rakudo.org
22:37 purl rakudo.org is probably http://rakudo.org
22:37 kid51 jonathan:  What is the 'gecking homepage'?
22:38 dalek r26846 | jonathan++ | trunk:
22:38 dalek : [PCT] Make parameters that had flat called on them actually emit :flat to the PIR.
22:38 dalek diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn​/parrot/revision?rev=26846
22:38 jonathan kid51: "gecking" is a, uh, non-standard English expression of frustration. ;-)
22:38 kid51 English English?
22:38 jonathan No.
22:39 jonathan A warped English that some over-influential friends of mine like to use...
22:39 kid51 Uh, how was the hackathon, jonathan?
22:39 jonathan REALLY good.
22:39 jonathan Really glad Mark Overmeer talked me into going.
22:39 kid51 It seemed like IRC traffic on #perl-qa was not that heavy
22:39 kid51 (at least during hours I was online)
22:40 jonathan I kinda hid away from the QA lot mostly and hacked on Rakudo. But there were certainly a lot of discussions being had.
22:40 jonathan I'm no QA whizz, but I got some (hopefully) nice stuff done.
22:41 jonathan This is some of what I got done on Rakudo:
22:41 jonathan http://use.perl.org/~Jonath​anWorthington/journal/36095
22:41 jonathan Gotta write up more yet, though.
22:43 dalek r26847 | jonathan++ | trunk:
22:43 dalek : [rakudo] Implement two basic cases of the handles trait verb.
22:43 dalek diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn​/parrot/revision?rev=26847
22:45 dalek r26848 | jonathan++ | trunk:
22:45 dalek : [core] Clean up some mis-leading comments and give does_pmc the same semantics as does in the Class PMC.
22:45 dalek diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn​/parrot/revision?rev=26848
22:45 jonathan purl domm
22:45 purl domm is, like, Thomas Klausner <mailto:domm@zsi.at>
22:45 * jonathan hopes that email address is up to date
22:47 particle jonathan: it's not clear in your blog entry when the type check is done
22:47 particle my EvenInt $x = 4; say $x; $x = 3; say $x;
22:47 particle 4
22:47 particle Type check failed
22:48 particle during fetch, or store?
22:48 particle or both?
22:48 purl both is Country *and* Western or Shipping *and* receiving or trolls *and* crap floods
22:48 particle purl forget both
22:48 purl particle: I forgot both
22:48 particle purl stop both
22:48 purl particle: huh?
22:48 particle purl ignore both
22:48 purl particle: huh?
22:50 jonathan particle: Store
22:50 particle as i figured.
22:50 jonathan That example was supposed to clarify that. D'oh. :-)
22:50 jonathan Do you have the rakudo.org URL handy?
22:50 jonathan So I can post it there?
22:51 particle it's perlbuzz.com/something
22:51 jonathan I also started on captures, and got some basic cases of the handles trait verb implemented.
22:51 Andy perlbuzz.com/mt I think
22:51 particle http://perlbuzz.com/cgi-bin/mt/mt.cgi
22:51 Andy yeah, that
22:51 purl Sure, that.
22:51 * jonathan bookmarks it on this laptop too
22:51 particle andy: can you put a redirect at http://rakudo.org/mt for us?
22:51 particle and at perlbuzz.com/mt
22:52 jonathan Works, thanks.
22:52 Andy particle: email me that
22:52 Andy it could be a PITA
22:52 particle roger, wilco
22:52 Andy we'll see
22:59 jonathan if anyone is up for something that will *really* help me out
22:59 jonathan The spectests for Rakudo are currently pretty...well...un-useful to me.
23:00 jonathan Because there are SO many failures, I can't easily see what I broke. Or, if I'm lucky, didn't break.
23:00 jonathan It'd be good if we could:
23:00 particle i suspect it's not the tests themselves, but the failure to report anything interesting
23:00 jonathan Right.
23:00 jonathan I'm not complaining about the actual tests or the quality of them.
23:01 nopaste "particle" at 24.19.3.148 pasted "test "summary" report for spec tests" (84 lines) at http://nopaste.snit.ch/12641
23:01 jonathan Just that when I run the tests, there's so many failures I can't see the trees for the forrest.
23:01 jonathan A short term thing that would work, is just running those that we expect to pass by just naming them in the harness.
23:01 * particle looks to ewilhelm and wonders if andya is nearby
23:02 jonathan But I guess fudge'ing them is what's really needed.
23:02 particle if we could have a list of fudged but passing tests, and a list of failed tests, that'd be much better
23:04 jonathan That'd help too.
23:05 jonathan But really, we want the expectation to be that the tests will mostly pass.
23:05 jonathan I'm not sure I want a list of fudged but passing all the time, though of course it's useful sometimes.
23:05 particle perhaps enabled by a flag
23:05 jonathan I just want to know, OK, I just added feature X, but did I break Y in the process?
23:06 particle the ultimate goal is to get all tests passing without fudge
23:06 jonathan Sure, of course.
23:06 particle the near-term goal is to get a failure report that's useable
23:06 jonathan Right. I just think it's getting to the point, where there's a lot more feature interactions than I'm smart enough to keep in my head.
23:06 particle in the mid-term, we're going to have to address regressions, as the test suite changes
23:07 jonathan So as we get more and more features in, I really need the tests to help me see that I'm actually making progress, not taking one step forward and fifty back.
23:08 jonathan particle: Please take a quick review of my PCT change too - I think it's OK, but I hope I didn't break any other languages. Shouldn't have...
23:08 jonathan Don't really edit PCT much though.
23:09 particle i'll have to find the rev
23:09 jonathan it was like, in the last 30 mins :-)
23:09 jonathan http://www.parrotvm.org/svn​/parrot/revision?rev=26846
23:10 * jonathan desparately hopes the patch has no trailing whitespace ;-)
23:12 Juerd I like how Parrot has almost readable ASM
23:12 Juerd And the other intermediate language, which is even neater.
23:13 particle me too
23:13 particle i just get confused when to use semicolons and when to use parens
23:17 jonathan Same!
23:18 jonathan OK, work meeting tomorrow, so I should sleep.
23:33 particle will i die a slow painful death before parrot compiles on a 1.2GHz core two duo?
23:33 * Infinoid compiles on a 1.8GHz core two duo all the time
23:34 particle you run linux or vista or what?
23:34 Infinoid linux
23:34 Infinoid with ccache, it goes pretty quickly.
23:34 Infinoid without ccache, it takes a few minutes
23:34 particle i'm considering the lenovo x300
23:35 Infinoid I've found processor speed has much more of an impact for the testsuite than for actual compilation
23:35 Infinoid I'd say "make test" accounts for 80% of my total parrot processing time
23:35 particle ah, so true
23:36 particle i wish i could do nmake -j test
23:36 * Infinoid too!
23:36 * Infinoid looks at ewilhelm
23:36 Infinoid (he mentioned a "prove -j" is in the works.)
23:36 particle yes, i was just wondering about that
23:47 Infinoid so... 1.8GHz lenovo T61 running linux takes 1 minute 20 seconds to do "make -j4".  that's 1 minute even with ccache.
23:48 particle you have the widescreen 14.1?
23:48 Infinoid yes
23:49 particle also under consideration.
23:49 Infinoid (waiting to see how long "make test" takes)
23:51 rdice joined #parrot
23:53 Infinoid ok, "make test" takes 6 minutes 35 seconds.
23:53 Infinoid so those are for linux in x86-64 mode.  I have no idea how they'd change for x86 mode, or another OS.
23:54 particle sheesh
23:54 particle you have amd64?
23:54 Infinoid core 2 duo is amd64-capable, yes
23:56 Infinoid you can see why I'm anticipating prove -j... it would essentially cut my entire development cycle time in half
23:57 particle yep
23:57 particle on my desktop it would quarter it
23:57 Infinoid nice desktop :)
23:57 particle until i get that second processor....
23:58 tetragon joined #parrot

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