Camelia, the Perl 6 bug

IRC log for #parrot, 2008-04-28

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Time Nick Message
00:04 Infinoid japhb: would using the HUGEINTVAL type help you?  that looks to be declared as "long long" on linux/i686, and "long" on linux/amd64... 64 bits in both cases
00:04 * japhb yawns
00:04 Infinoid the problem is, NCI will have to return and pass those arguments from the rest of parrot, so we need to use a type that the rest of parrot can handle
00:04 japhb Infinoid: that would be good, if NCI were taught to use it
00:05 Infinoid so I'm trying to find a suitable type :)
00:05 japhb How is HUGEINTVAL currently used?
00:07 Infinoid kinda sporadic
00:09 japhb Still, it does sound like the right typedef, if NCI can be taught to use it.  I nominate 'L' for this task.
00:11 * Infinoid stares at call_list.txt
00:13 Infinoid ... is this really what I think it is?  we have to declare all our function signature types ahead of time?
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00:21 japhb Infinoid: yes, that's exactly what it is.  It's ugly, but eventually will go away.  I just have no idea how far away that will be.
00:23 japhb Supposedly eventually the NCI thunks will be JIT on demand
00:23 japhb I get the feeling that has a low priority (as in "may not make 1.0")
00:24 particle japhb: end of summer, i hope
00:25 japhb particle: oooh, better than I thought!
00:25 Infinoid japhb: well, so far this is an interesting hack (meaning, I had to go as deep as pobj.h).  I'm curious whether the rest of parrot is up for this
00:25 particle this is the subject of a GSoC project
00:26 Infinoid japhb: I might have something for you to test (I don't have a clue how) in half an hour
00:26 particle by a long-time contributer to parrot
00:26 japhb Infinoid: "this"?  You mean adding HUGEINTVAL to NCI?
00:26 Infinoid yeah
00:26 Infinoid with an L signature
00:26 japhb ah, thank you!
00:26 japhb excellent
00:26 Infinoid don't thank me yet, it might not work, and it might not be what you want :)
00:27 japhb particle: I remembered seeing something NCI related in the GSoC list, but "end of summer" is too far away to affect my immediate plans.  :-)
00:27 japhb Infinoid: well OK then.
00:27 particle tewk plans on using languages/c99 to parse headers and generate nci stubs
00:28 Infinoid ooo, h2pmc
00:28 Infinoid or h2pir?
00:28 japhb Once you have the parsing correct, the output should be way easier.
00:32 particle on a different topic, i'm having a load of failures on ubuntu x64
00:32 particle 112 failed subtests
00:33 Infinoid All tests successful on gentoo amd64
00:33 Infinoid any pattern to your failures?
00:35 Infinoid amazingly enough, nci.c compiles
00:35 particle nothing i can immediately identify
00:36 particle lemme nopaste the test output, before i head off to get cleaned up and make dinner
00:36 Infinoid I'm not so convinced I can add another basic type to the PObj union this easily...
00:36 Infinoid something's gotta break.
00:37 nopaste "particle" at 24.19.3.148 pasted "test failure summary for ubuntu 8.04/x64" (12 lines) at http://nopaste.snit.ch/12839
00:37 japhb Infinoid: and also note that chromatic posted a patch a bit ago that messes with PObj.  There will probably end up being a conflict there.
00:38 Infinoid probably.  but this is just a proof of concept, I don't actually have the foggiest idea what I'm doing :)
00:39 Infinoid basically I'm just too naive to have learned not to mess with this stuff yet.
00:39 particle just watch the size of the object in the union
00:39 particle it had better be the same as the size of the other objects
00:39 particle shower &
00:39 Infinoid sounding good so far.  its 64 bits, and the other objects are guaranteed to be at least that big
00:40 Infinoid at least, it won't be any bigger.  it may be smaller, but that won't throw off the union size
00:43 Infinoid "All tests successful."  *blink*
00:44 nopaste "Infinoid" at 75.32.77.88 pasted "ugly patch to add HUGEINTVAL types to NCI (and add it to everything else too, I hope)" (173 lines) at http://nopaste.snit.ch/12840
00:45 Infinoid I seriously doubt the rest of parrot is up to this.  Might need a HugeInteger PMC or something to actually manipulate these values in the rest of parrot
00:45 Infinoid but the NCI side of things might work now :)
00:52 japhb Infinoid: in tools/build/nativecall.pl , in the chunk starting with '/L/ && do {', should that specify "long long t_$temp_num;" or "HUGEINTVAL t_$temp_num;" ?
00:53 japhb (I honestly don't know which is supposed to be used there)
00:54 Infinoid I just followed the nomenclature that "l" used
00:54 japhb ah.
00:54 * japhb trusts the force for now
00:54 japhb RT that patch!  ;-)
00:55 Infinoid it seems to use entries from the "compiler-vague" family of types, on the external side, and entries from the "parrot-vague" family of types, on the parrot side
00:55 japhb interesting
00:55 Infinoid and hoping they match up.  which they will, for now, because of some other weirdnesses
00:55 japhb hmmm, perhaps in the longer term, L == long long, H == HUGEINTVAL
00:56 Infinoid neither of those are really fixed
00:57 japhb Sure, but I would guess they cover the vast majority of times you would want a large int type
00:57 japhb For NCI purposes, I only care about L right now ....
00:58 Infinoid well, what worries me is, there are 128-bit processes out there, which means "long long" will probably eventually get bigger
00:58 Infinoid s/processes/processors/
00:58 Infinoid unless they want to get ridiculous with a long long long type
00:58 Infinoid "really really long"
00:58 Infinoid "bond james bond"
00:59 japhb Infinoid: that's true, but I would expect that 'long long' => 128 bits on such a processor would actually be a good thing.
00:59 Infinoid I'd rather see an alternate set of platform-indignant fixed size types available
00:59 Infinoid like uint32_t, Parrot_UInt4, that kind of thing
00:59 Infinoid p5's pack() and unpack() are nice that way
01:00 japhb I'm all for that, especially since some APIs define and use such fixed width types
01:00 japhb AFK for a bit
01:00 Infinoid some do, some don't, and we have to support both
01:00 Infinoid ok, thanks
01:11 Infinoid steak &
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02:10 wknight8111 seen chromatic?
02:10 purl chromatic was last seen on #parrot 4 days and 23 hours ago, saying: I'm tracking down a similar crash in one of the Rakudo tests.  [Apr 22 20:13:47 2008]
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12:32 dalek allison@perl.org | Concurrency Tasks:
12:32 dalek link: http://www.perlfoundation.org/pa​rrot/index.cgi?concurrency_tasks
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12:41 dalek allison@perl.org | Concurrency Tasks:
12:41 dalek link: http://www.perlfoundation.org/pa​rrot/index.cgi?concurrency_tasks
12:42 itz is there anything like a simple tasks for parrot/perl6 n00bs wikipage?
12:48 Coke parrot has the cage tasks. moment.
12:52 Coke itz: http://www.perlfoundation.org/parrot/index.​cgi?parrot#contributing_to_parrothttp://www.perlfoundation.org/parrot/index.​cgi?parrot#contributing_to_parrot
12:52 Coke er.
12:52 Coke http://www.perlfoundation.org/parrot/i​ndex.cgi?parrot#contributing_to_parrot
12:53 dalek allison@perl.org | Concurrency Tasks:
12:53 dalek link: http://www.perlfoundation.org/pa​rrot/index.cgi?concurrency_tasks
12:53 Coke I can't see the link of a list of cage tasks, will recreate it...
12:53 Coke cage?
12:53 purl it has been said that cage is <url:http://www.speech.cs.cmu.edu​/~sburke/stuff/cage_433.html>
12:53 Coke parrot cage?
12:54 Coke many perl.org sites not coming back.
12:54 Coke So, start at the wiki page and we can go from there. =-)
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14:25 Coke this is the only perl.org service I have up at the moment.
14:29 mire joined #parrot
14:32 Coke seen ask?
14:32 purl ask was last seen on #perl 14 days and 20 hours ago, saying: hex: :-)  [Apr 13 11:51:32 2008]
14:32 Coke seen robrt?
14:32 purl robrt was last seen on #p5p 11 days and 12 hours ago, saying: xdg:  Exactly.  Thats what someone was complaining about  [Apr 16 19:53:27 2008]
14:33 Coke .win 8
14:34 pmichaud Coke:  I don't think that putting hackathon work into branches "sends the right message"
14:35 Coke Could you be more specific?
14:35 pmichaud if I'm a hackathon participant, and I do anything of note, I'd like to see my work accepted into the trunk quickly
14:36 pmichaud I don't want to see it shunted into a branch because of an upcoming release (that could conceivably be moved to avoid conflicting with the hackathon)
14:36 particle i've been thinking about changing the release process
14:37 particle so we create branches/QA, test it for a few days, and release from there
14:37 pmichaud I'm looking at it from an "instant" versus "delayed" gratification perspective
14:37 particle then trunk becomes current development *only*
14:37 particle and any changes made to branches/QA are rolled into trunk after release
14:38 pmichaud particle:  why after release?
14:38 pmichaud I'd rather roll them directly into trunk as I locate them
14:38 particle sure, that's fine too
14:38 pmichaud in that case I don't need the branch :-)
14:38 particle i mean META.yml, etc
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14:40 particle bugfixes found during testing can be rolled directly into trunk
14:40 pmichaud I guess I don't see the advantage of the branch
14:40 particle release prep activities shouldn't affect trunk, as trunk is never a release candidate
14:41 pmichaud if the release process took a couple of days, I could see it.  But that's not generally the case.
14:41 pmichaud or, put another way, I'm not sure what existing problem you're trying to improve
14:41 particle i believe as we approch 1.0, the release process will lengthen
14:41 particle the existing problem is this:
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14:41 particle i'm in hawaii, and only have access to a win32 laptop
14:41 particle i want a quality release
14:42 particle i can't test it well enough to ensure quality, but i release anyway
14:42 particle some days later, i get failure reports from cpan testers.
14:42 particle i don't like that release cycle.
14:42 pmichaud are the failure reports likely to be ones that would be caught by a "release candidate" phase?
14:43 particle if we have a branch for release candidates, we can even submit developer releases to CPAN for platform testing
14:43 pmichaud hmmm, that might work
14:43 pmichaud having the branch is useful if we do indeed get multiple testers for the candidate
14:44 particle yes
14:44 particle we can have smokers that look for changes to the branch
14:44 particle ...and prioritize those requests over trunk smokes
14:44 Coke (RC phase) arguably, every release we are doing pre-1.0 doesn't even get as far as RC in terms of stability.
14:45 Coke pmichaud: I have gotten no feedback from committers to indicate that branches are considered second-class.
14:45 particle coke: yes, that can be argued. but i argue that the only way to increase velocity is to ensure high stability
14:45 Coke have you? or are you trying to address a potential problem?
14:45 pmichaud Coke: the people at hackathons aren't committers
14:45 pmichaud (often aren't)
14:45 Coke sorry, "contributers"
14:46 particle a few small scripts under tools/ could help us manage our branches better
14:46 particle make it easier for contributors unfamiliar with svn to deal with them, etc
14:46 pmichaud coke:  I'm looking primarily at new contributors, not existing ones
14:47 Coke but do you *know* this is an issue from previous anecdotal evidence on parrot? or are you trying to avoid a problem that you think *might* exist? that's what I'm trying to get a handle on here.
14:47 Coke And i think we can address that level of expectation socially.
14:48 pmichaud avoid a problem I think *might* exist, coupled with knowing that past hackathons haven't netted as many new long-term contributors as we might like
14:48 Coke but we don't have feedback from those that didn't come back that using a branch was the issue, right?
14:48 pmichaud we weren't using branches then (also, we've never had a hackathon that coincided with a release date)
14:49 pmichaud i.e, the reason we may not have observed this is because hackathons never juxtapositioned with releases as this one will
14:49 particle chicago hackathon in november 2006 was within a week of a release date
14:49 Coke I would rather address this by being more socially interactive with our new contributors.
14:49 particle many patches were submitted to rt and applied after the release
14:50 pmichaud well, I don't want to argue this too strongly, because it's really not that important to me.
14:51 pmichaud if I were a new participant, I'd feel really good about having my work immediately go into the trunk
14:51 pmichaud I'd feel less good if it went into a branch but didn't really have to
14:51 pmichaud I'd feel unappreciated if it went into a branch and then got forgotten (much like a warnocked patch)
14:51 Andy joined #parrot
14:51 Coke no one said we would be putting *everything* into a branch. I was responding specifically to your concern about things that would impact the release.
14:52 pmichaud I'm just asking why release dates are sacrosanct in this instance.
14:52 pmichaud but rather than push it further, I'll just drop it.  it's really not that important.
14:53 gryphon joined #parrot
14:53 Coke (drop it) ok.
14:56 particle pmichaud: is running Test.pm still on the priority list for rakudo?
14:57 pmichaud particle:  *which* Test.pm ?
14:57 particle pugs
14:57 particle something that gets us todo/skip
14:57 pmichaud I thought that fudge handled that for us
14:57 particle it helps
14:58 particle i'm just thinking about old assumptions for milestones
14:58 pmichaud I'm not terribly impressed with pugs' Test.pm design -- it seemed like a lot of stuff was thrown in
14:58 pmichaud I'd rather come up with a cleaner Test.pm
14:58 particle agreed
14:58 particle wonderful. i agree.
14:59 pmichaud I'll write up rakudo milestones shortly -- have one or two other morning tasks to take care of first
14:59 jonathan Will do my first full Rakudo day on Thu or Fri.
14:59 pmichaud jonathan++
14:59 * Coke continues to wait for his parrotcode.org commit to work.
14:59 pmichaud I'll be out of town Fri and Sat
15:00 particle jonathan++
15:00 Coke (it's taking a LONG time to time out.)
15:00 jonathan ok, better for you if I make it Thursday?
15:00 pmichaud if you can (and you think you'll want my input on things), then yes.
15:00 jonathan Well, your input is good to have. :-)
15:00 jonathan Will look at that inheritance bug someone posted on list.
15:00 particle t\02-test-pm\1-basic.........< postcircumfix colonpairs not yet implemented at line 41, near ", :desc('2"
15:01 jonathan Oh, I can do that too, if you like. ;-)
15:01 cognominal jonathan, what are your chance to come to fpw at the moment?
15:01 particle what's wrong with :desc('foo') ??
15:01 jonathan :desc('foo') should work...
15:01 jonathan Hmm
15:01 particle yeah. hmm.
15:01 jonathan :desc<foo> I know isn't done
15:01 particle ah.
15:01 pmichaud :desc<foo> should be really easy
15:01 particle then the error message is bad.
15:01 jonathan cognominal: Erm, I really need to work out how much it's going to cost me.
15:02 jonathan pmichaud: Agree, easy, just undone.
15:02 jonathan cognominal: The location is a tad unusual = more costly to get to.
15:02 cognominal You need to fly to Toulouse
15:02 pmichaud afk for a bit
15:02 cognominal and you can ride with BooK in a car, see the wiki
15:03 jonathan Is it's airport big? I'd hate tou-louse myself there...
15:03 Coke *groan*
15:03 jonathan cognominal: What dates should I be flying on?
15:03 jonathan The Nordic workshop want me too.
15:05 cognominal fpw  Friday  30 May and Saturday
15:06 particle jonathan is the (unofficial) european embodiment of rakudo :)
15:06 jonathan cognominal: OK, so if I fly into Toulouse on the Thursday and leave from there on the Sunday, will that match up with the lifts?
15:06 cognominal http://conferences.mongueurs.ne​t/fpw2008/wiki?node=CoVoiturage  # BooK is proposing a carpool from Toulouse de Albi  if you arrive at the airport Thursday before 6pm
15:07 cognominal this year is on a tight budget so I can't ask the organizer to pay part of your trip :(
15:08 cognominal organizers
15:08 purl organizers are sincere enough.
15:08 cognominal indeed
15:10 cognominal Jonathan: and the organizer are quite short on talks, so you probably do as many as you can/will  :)
15:15 jonathan cognominal: I'd very much like to be at both this and the Nordic one, I will try to make it happen.
15:15 sjansen joined #parrot
15:15 jonathan Sorry for not having an answer yet - my energies have been eaten up by finding a place to live from next month.
15:15 cognominal :)
15:16 cognominal you are welcome any time...
15:16 * Coke would donate 5 bucks if you had a paypal link up somewhere.
15:16 Coke I imagine there are more people who would do the same.
15:17 particle apply for a microgrant
15:17 particle $500 will buy you a hamburger in london, i hear.
15:17 * Coke wonders if the microgrants are going through the GC.
15:17 Coke jonathan?
15:17 * Coke smacks purl.
15:17 purl Oh baby, you do it so *good*!
15:18 Coke jonathan, what's your email address?
15:18 cognominal well,  they have better than burgers in Toulouse
15:18 jonathan y'know, it's funny hearing people saying about the pound being strong agains the dollar. :-)
15:18 jonathan I instead am having trouble with the weakness of the pound...aginst the euro.
15:18 jonathan Coke: jnthn@jnthn.net
15:18 particle seems search.cpan.org is down
15:18 jonathan particle: Microgrant could work.
15:18 particle no, microgrants are outside TPF GC
15:19 jonathan I know someone has got a travel grant before.
15:19 cognominal we have people like the Kerviel trader who works hard to lower euro currency :)
15:19 particle there are 5 open microgrants for the taking, and yes, they can sponsor travel
15:20 jonathan Given I've just had one grant given to me, I feel kinda odd about going chasing another one.
15:20 jonathan "All your grants are belong to me."
15:21 jonathan It would mean I could comfortably go to both events though.
15:21 * Coke goes for 5 EU instead.
15:22 * Coke urks at the exchange rate.
15:23 cognominal jonathan : what we can do is to auction you talks :)
15:23 cognominal but you will have to give one of your colorful t-shirts as a bonus  :)
15:24 PerlJam jonathan: Do you believe that getting an additional grant will take that grant away from someone who is just as likely as you to do something productive?  :)
15:26 jonathan PerlJam: There's plenty of productive people in the Perl community besides me. :)
15:26 PerlJam jonathan: sure, but how many of them are applying for a grant?
15:26 jonathan PerlJam: Given that there's five of them left now...
15:26 jonathan Seems not many.
15:27 cognominal jonathan : can you auction one of your t-shirts?
15:28 jonathan Coke++ # thanks! :-O
15:28 jonathan cognominal: Erm, maybe...
15:28 jonathan Most of my t-shirts are *from* Perl conferences. ;-)
15:28 jonathan As my mum frequently points out to me.
15:28 jonathan "ANOTHER Perl t-shirt?!"
15:30 PerlJam jonathan: Make your own via cafepress.com (put rakudo features on them or your picture or something)
15:31 cognominal no, we want one of his very colorful tshirts :)
15:31 jonathan hehe
15:31 jonathan cognominal: Will see what I can do.
15:31 jonathan Would people *really* want one of my t-shirts? ;-)
15:32 cognominal well, that's a pretext...
15:35 tewk How do people report Perl Foundation funding to the government?  As a grant like an academic grant or as self employment income?
15:37 jonathan tewk: I've been doing it as the second of those.
15:37 particle i've been doing the latter, as well
15:37 particle however, it's a good question.
15:38 jonathan And highly dependent upon the country you're in too, I guess.
15:38 cognominal jonathan, I forgot your email address
15:40 jonathan cognominal: jnthn@jnthn.net
15:43 jonathan cognominal: Flying to Toulouse looks a lot more expensive, than taking a morning flight to Paris and getting the train down to Toulouse.
15:44 cognominal well but then we have to take a train to albi, that's seven hours of train.
15:44 jonathan From Toulous to Albi?
15:44 jonathan *Toulouse
15:44 cognominal no, from paris
15:45 jonathan Sure, it is.
15:45 cognominal I probably will take the train too from paris
15:46 jonathan Aha, maybe I can join you for the train journey?
15:46 Coke jonathan is jnthn@jnthn.net
15:46 cognominal sure
15:46 cognominal and one hour  subway from Roissy to Gare Monparnasse to take the train.
15:47 jonathan What sort of time were you thinking of setting off on the Thursday? I can get a flight that arrives in Paris (ORY) at 08:50
15:48 cognominal maybe if we are two, and that the pooling car is not full we can manadge them to meet us at the Toulouse railway station
15:48 jonathan OK, that sounds like a plan too.
15:48 cognominal This is the Toulouse-Albi which is not fun.
15:48 jonathan And you would get train back on the Sunday after the conference?
15:48 cognominal From Paris to Toulouse it is TGV, a fast train
15:49 cognominal I must see with BooK on #perlfr if he agrees
15:50 cognominal your plane will land at Roissy or Orly?
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15:54 jonathan cognominal: Orly
15:54 Infinoid YARLY
15:55 cognominal ok
15:56 cognominal I think we will be early at Toulouse so the best will probably to get a cab to Toulouse Blagnac airport (or some public transportation) to meet BooK.
15:57 jonathan OK.
15:57 * particle has a three line patch for postcircumfix:<> colonpairs
15:57 jonathan particle++
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16:00 * particle wonders what it would take to get the :P5 regex modifier working
16:00 jonathan particle: I think just specifying the :language of the regex block differently.
16:00 jonathan erm, and parsing the adverbs to the regex. ;-)
16:01 particle right
16:01 jonathan OK, I'll put a microgrant application in for travel to the FPW and NPW.
16:03 davidfetter anybody have word on YAPC::NA?
16:04 particle that's a cryptic question
16:04 davidfetter well, like are all the talks accepted that will be?
16:04 particle http://yapcchicago.org
16:05 dalek r27217 | particle++ | trunk:
16:05 dalek : [rakudo] implement postcircumfix:<> for colonpairs
16:05 dalek diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn​/parrot/revision?rev=27217
16:05 particle http://conferences.mongueurs.net/yn2008/schedule
16:07 davidfetter well, that answers my question
16:07 * davidfetter a little disappointed not to have gotten any word on this from them :P
16:08 particle cognominal: you have a patch pending for rakudo hash composers, correct?
16:08 cognominal yes
16:09 cognominal I mean a function.
16:09 particle ok, i'd like to be able to pass isa_ok({ 'one' => 1 }, 'Hash');
16:09 cognominal I have not worked out, the grammar.pg that calls the hash()  function
16:10 cognominal I will rewrite in nqp my parse trimmer first.
16:10 particle cool.
16:11 cognominal the perl awk like was plain ugly
16:11 jonathan particle: The => syntax is broken (in the parsing) at the moment, suggest sticking to colonpairs.
16:12 cognominal btw, coke, I have filed a bug about your perl script that generates template for languages
16:12 particle jonathan: i'd like to pass some existing tests
16:12 particle good to know => needs to be fixed, though
16:12 particle however, looks like we also need to implement rx//
16:12 * particle checks STD.pm for that
16:14 particle i see a clear pattern in the failure results from spectest: rakudo needs list context
16:31 jonathan particle: If you have specific requests for stuff for me to look in to on Thursday, => jnthn@jnthn.net :-)
16:35 particle ok($foo.isa(Foo), '.isa(Foo)');
16:35 particle is that valid perl 6?
16:36 particle looks like a bareword to me
16:36 particle guess it's a type
16:39 jonathan It's fine so long as Foo is declared.
16:39 jonathan It's a typename.
16:39 particle yeah. doesn't parse in rakudo
16:39 jonathan $foo ~~ Foo already works (or should)
16:39 particle Statement not terminated properly at line 23, near "($foo.isa("
16:39 particle t/spec/S12-class/basic.t
16:43 Infinoid particle: t/dynoplibs/myops.t passes for me on mingw, after my commit from saturday.  do you have a chance to test it on msvc?
16:43 particle not yet. will do now
16:44 Infinoid ... well, I have a failure on the "one alarm" test, but not the "three alarms" test I modified.
16:47 Infinoid oh, duh.  its skipped under mingw, so my test was ineffective
16:48 Infinoid after unskipping, it runs, but doesn't look like alarms ever fire under mingw
16:48 Infinoid (that's why the "one alarm" test fails, too.)
16:51 Infinoid ... it also looks like "sleep 1" doesn't actually sleep.
16:52 particle on win32, sleep is guaranteed to be within 1sec of the requested time
16:52 particle dunno if that's same for mingw
16:53 particle but that's why sub-second times aren't greta
16:53 particle *great
16:53 Infinoid mingw doesn't sleep at all, which might explain why both of the alarm tests fail
16:53 Infinoid I'm going to send that to parrotbug
16:54 Infinoid particle: doing a ceil() on a float value is sufficient, if the API doesn't allow anything more precise
16:54 Infinoid as long as sleep returns at or after the point you specify, that's fine... no guarantees beyond that
16:56 particle mingw sleeps for me
16:56 Infinoid pir sleep, or C sleep()?
16:56 particle perl sleep
16:56 particle perl -e
16:57 Infinoid ok.  "sleep 1" in pir seems to be a noop
16:58 Theory joined #parrot
16:59 mire joined #parrot
16:59 Infinoid I'll see what I can do to fix it
17:01 particle[ventus] joined #parrot
17:01 grim_fandango joined #parrot
17:02 * particle[ventus] is having trouble with ubuntu 8.04/amd64
17:02 Infinoid particle[ventus]: I saw your list of failed tests, any chance of seeing the stderr or prove -v or somesuch too?
17:02 grim_fandango joined #parrot
17:02 particle[ventus] sure, i'll post that
17:03 Coke robrt has fixed the websites; yapc::na link added to the front page.
17:03 grim_fandango joined #parrot
17:03 nopaste "particle" at 24.19.3.148 pasted "bt for perl6 -e "say 'Hello, world.'"" (39 lines) at http://nopaste.snit.ch/12842
17:04 * particle[ventus] runs make test
17:04 cotto_work joined #parrot
17:05 Infinoid sleep() doesn't exist at the C level in mingw, I'm gonna find out how perl 5.10.0 does it
17:05 * particle vaguely remembers something about 'delay'
17:07 rillian I'm still working through kj's tutorial, part 3
17:08 rillian which is just assignments
17:08 rillian my variables make it into the parse tree
17:08 rillian but my values don't
17:08 rillian the string literal ends up wrapped in a MySquaak::Grammar' => "Hash[0x587d4]"
17:08 particle rillian: have you seen languages/squaak in the parrot tree?
17:09 rillian and the integer literal ends up an undef
17:09 rillian particle: I have, but I can't figure out what I'm doing wrong
17:09 rillian http://pastebin.ca/1000571 and http://pastebin.ca/1000570
17:09 rillian if anyone wants to have a look
17:09 cotto_work have you seen http://www.parrotblog.org/2008/04/sol​utions-to-pct-tutorial-exercises.html ?
17:10 rillian yes. I'm stuck in the part that says "I assume you don't need any help with this." :)
17:10 particle heh
17:10 particle i haven't read the tutorial yet. can you point me to the chapter you're on?
17:11 rillian in my integer_constant action, printing ~$/ (or +$/) give the correct value
17:11 rillian but my make PAST::Val.new(...) doesn't seem to get passed up the tree
17:11 rillian http://www.parrotblog.org/2008/03/epi​sode-3-squaak-details-and-first.html
17:12 rillian although http://www.parrotblog.org/2008/03/sol​utions-to-exercises-in-episode-3.html might be a better place to start
17:12 rdice joined #parrot
17:12 Patterner 27217 still cannot resize the FixedIntegerArray...
17:13 Infinoid isn't that why we call it Fixed?
17:14 * particle[ventus] now sees All tests successful, 29 tests and 603 subtests skipped.
17:14 * particle[ventus] tries rebuilding with -j
17:15 Patterner well, it complains... so I assume it's not A Good Thing(TM=).
17:15 Coke I vaguely remember this conversation. Is there a ticket, Patterner?
17:15 Infinoid We secretly replaced particle[ventus]'s bogons with cluons.  Let's see if he notices.
17:17 Coke cluons are like gluons, only denser.
17:17 rillian what's the phase diagram of a frak-cluon plasma?
17:19 * particle[ventus] wonders if make -j realclean caused the misbehavior
17:19 particle[ventus] as make -j test returns all tests successful now, too
17:20 particle[ventus] perl6 still segfaults :(
17:20 Infinoid I've been using make -j realclean quite a lot in the last week or so, with no ill effects
17:21 particle well, one bogon freed. but there are more.
17:21 Coke make -j realclean should be safe.
17:22 particle hrmm, apparently my mingw setup is now failing to find gcc :(
17:22 * Coke uses it often, much quicker.
17:24 Zaba particle[ventus], tried running the .pbc instead of the perl6 executable?
17:25 Infinoid the perl6 fakecutable works fine for me on gentoo/amd64
17:25 Zaba it fails horribly on some things here, while .pbc does not
17:26 Patterner Coke: not yet... usually my bugs get resolved before I have a chance.
17:26 Infinoid I can't reproduce particle's http://nopaste.snit.ch/12842 crash :(
17:26 Patterner hmmm... "Configure.pl" works.  "Configure.pl --optimize" does not work.
17:26 particle[ventus] particle@ventus:~/dev/parrot/trunk$ ./parrot languages/perl6/perl6.pbc -e"say 'Hello, world.'"
17:26 particle[ventus] Hello, world.
17:26 purl rm -fr /
17:26 * Coke removes some old release announcements from the front page.
17:26 particle[ventus] zaba++
17:26 japhb ce.
17:28 particle[ventus] Infinoid: you're running on the same hardware as me, right?
17:28 Zaba Infinoid, seems like I'm not the only with such a problem, then..
17:29 particle[ventus] gcc version 4.2.3 (Ubuntu 4.2.3-2ubuntu7)
17:29 particle[ventus] This is perl, v5.8.8 built for x86_64-linux-gnu-thread-multi
17:29 Zaba gcc (GCC) 4.1.2 20070214 (Gentoo 4.1.2 p1.0.2)
17:30 Infinoid particle[ventus]: lenovo T61?  yes.
17:30 particle[ventus] zaba: perl 5.8.8?
17:30 Zaba particle[ventus], yes.
17:30 Infinoid gcc version 4.2.3 (Gentoo 4.2.3 p1.0)
17:30 Infinoid This is perl, v5.10.0 built for x86_64-linux-thread-multi
17:30 Zaba Infinoid, ricer! *hides*
17:31 particle[ventus] crap. now i gotta go build perl 5.10.0
17:31 particle[ventus] is there an rpm somewhere?
17:32 Infinoid hmm... that's a long, difficult process.  I spent about a day tracking down all the stuff that had to be rebuilt for 5.10
17:32 particle[ventus] yeah, hence the "crap".
17:32 Infinoid I'm wondering if there's a Better Way
17:33 Zaba Infinoid, perl-cleaner?
17:33 Infinoid Zaba: missed a lot of stuff.
17:33 Infinoid I've got 5.8.8 on a linux/i386 box, one moment
17:34 particle[ventus] i wonder if it has to do with icu or another config option
17:34 Infinoid I can paste my config_lib.pasm, if you want to do a diff
17:35 Infinoid or my Configure.pl output
17:35 particle[ventus] config_lib.pasm would be interesting
17:35 nopaste "Infinoid" at 96.238.213.50 pasted "gentoo/amd64 config_lib.pasm" (388 lines) at http://nopaste.snit.ch/12843
17:38 pmichaud 16:09 <cognominal> I have not worked out, the grammar.pg that calls the hash()  function
17:38 pmichaud grammar.pg doesn't call the hash() function
17:40 pmichaud that will be done from the 'noun' method in actions.pm
17:40 pmichaud or possibly in circumfix
17:40 cognominal well I need to work out  a composer in grammar.pg/actions.pm that will call the hash() function.
17:41 cognominal in fact it must check if it is a block or a composer
17:41 pmichaud right -- that will be done in either circumfix or noun
17:42 cognominal anyways  &hash is useful without the syntactic sugar
17:42 pmichaud correct.
17:42 purl no, it's not!
17:44 pmichaud particle:  is that patch for <postcircumfix> correct?  Looks like it might be missing an array subscript somewhere
17:44 cognominal bbl
17:44 particle[ventus] Infinoid: you have readline defined. that's all i can see that's different
17:45 particle[ventus] pmichaud: maybe i botched it... i'll have to look in a few
17:46 Infinoid ok.  install libreadline5-dev and try again?
17:47 Infinoid (I doubt readline is the cause, but I haven't tested much without it)
17:49 cotto_work chromatic++ for working around the bug exposed by his mmd example
17:49 particle[ventus] yeah, i'm doing that now
17:52 Piper joined #parrot
17:52 Piper Hi there.  I am Piper.  I am now publicly logging this channel.  If you don't want to be logged, please leave now.
17:53 cotto_work thanks, Piper
17:53 ambs joined #parrot
17:54 Piper joined #parrot
17:54 Piper Hi there.  I am Piper.  I am now publicly logging this channel.  If you don't want to be logged, please leave now.
17:54 ambs Piper, go f...
17:54 * ambs watches his tongue.
17:55 pmichaud ambs:  yeah, I bet Piper logged that.  :-P
17:55 ambs :D
17:55 pmichaud if you want to say something bad about Piper, be sure to do it when it's not looking (and make sure Tweety isn't watching either)
17:56 ambs I have it more when it opens a new tab just to warn me :)
17:57 Coke You can ignore those, neh?
17:57 Coke ignore piper?
17:57 ambs I *hate*
17:57 * ambs checks the documentation
17:59 grim_fandango joined #parrot
18:01 cotto_work joined #parrot
18:05 jalbo joined #parrot
18:05 jalbo Hello.
18:06 Infinoid hi!
18:06 dalek r27218 | pmichaud++ | trunk:
18:06 dalek : [rakudo]:
18:06 dalek : * Change ROADMAP to provide a list of intended milestones.
18:06 dalek diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn​/parrot/revision?rev=27218
18:07 jonathan ...ok, that was fast, I have the grant already.
18:07 jonathan FPW and NPW, here I come. :_)
18:07 ambs jonathan, PPW, no?
18:07 ambs jonathan, or PtPW, if you preffer...
18:08 jonathan PPW?
18:08 purl PPW is the Pittsburgh Perl Workshop http://pghpw.org or perl paddy wagon
18:08 Coke SMOP?
18:08 purl it has been said that SMOP is a Simple Meta Object Programming or Simple Matter of Programming at http://www.perlfoundation.org/perl6/index.cgi?smop
18:08 pmichaud I'm planning to attend PPW
18:09 jonathan Oh, argh, I'm meant to be meeting someone five minutes away, two minutes ago...gotta run.
18:10 ambs PTPW
18:10 ambs PTPW?
18:10 purl PTPW is probably the Portuguese Perl Workshop (6-7 June, 2008)
18:10 ambs that one :)
18:10 dalek r27219 | pmichaud++ | trunk:
18:10 dalek : [rakudo]:
18:10 dalek : * Update to ROADMAP milestones.
18:10 dalek diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn​/parrot/revision?rev=27219
18:15 Ivatar joined #parrot
18:21 particle Zaba: i'm sorry, i've been way to distracted to give your code a look. i'll try to get to it when i can
18:22 pmichaud zaba:  what's the code/issue?  I might be able to take a look.
18:22 jalbo Someone can try this patch buliding with c++? http://rt.perl.org/rt3/Publi​c/Bug/Display.html?id=53352
18:22 particle ack, i even messed that up
18:22 particle it's rillian with the code issues
18:23 particle pmichaud: you should see the issues in backscroll
18:23 pmichaud I scanned but they didn't pop out
18:23 AndyA joined #parrot
18:24 rillian pmichaud: still stuck debugging tutorial 3. http://pastebin.ca/1000571 and http://pastebin.ca/1000570
18:24 pmichaud rillian:  okay, just a sec  (finishing use.perl post)
18:24 rillian if I compile 'x = 1' I get bind(var('x'), undef) in the parse tree
18:25 nopaste "particle" at 24.19.3.148 pasted "earlier posts from rillian" (18 lines) at http://nopaste.snit.ch/12844
18:25 rillian and 'x = "one"' turns into bind(var('x'), val('Hash[0xaddr]'))
18:25 rillian I've not been able to figure out what I'm doing wrong
18:29 grim_fandango joined #parrot
18:29 * Coke ponders moving all the Tcl tickets out of parrot's bug queue.
18:29 * Coke thinks this would be for the best.
18:29 pmichaud Coke: perhaps launchpad?
18:30 ambs rt is so damn slow :(
18:30 Coke ambs: use the command line tool. Much faster.
18:31 Coke pmichaud: i was thinking googlecode.
18:31 ambs Coke, is there any command line tool for RT?
18:31 Coke (bug tracker, eventually svn repo for when we get booted out of perl.org...)
18:31 Coke rt command line?
18:31 Coke rtcli?
18:31 purl rtcli is, like, RT CLI
18:31 Coke rt cli?
18:31 purl i guess rt cli is http://www.perlfoundation.org/parrot/inde​x.cgi?how_to_use_rt_from_the_command_line
18:31 pmichaud rillian: can you post the output of --target=past ?
18:31 Coke rt command line is RT CLI
18:31 mj41 joined #parrot
18:31 particle coke: i have a shiny empty repo created for parrot hlls
18:31 * ambs googles
18:31 particle currently populated with none
18:32 ambs coke++
18:32 particle if you'd like to start using it for tickets, i think we can make that happen
18:32 Coke depends on where it is.
18:33 particle googlecode
18:33 purl rumour has it googlecode is google's sourceforge replacement
18:33 Coke which project?
18:33 purl which project is this?
18:33 particle squawk.googlecode.org
18:33 Coke wget: unable to resolve host address `squawk.googlecode.org'
18:33 particle s/org/com/
18:33 ambs purl, forget which project
18:33 purl ambs: I forgot which project
18:33 pmichaud rillian:  on line 63 of actions.pm, you have
18:33 pmichaud #
18:34 pmichaud make $/{$key};
18:34 pmichaud it probably needs to be
18:34 pmichaud make $($/{$key});
18:34 rillian pmichaud: http://pastebin.ca/10000697
18:34 pmichaud otherwise it's putting the parse node into the tree instead of the PAST node
18:34 rillian er http://pastebin.ca/1000697
18:35 particle coke: hopefully, we can implement our own columns, like HLL or something
18:35 Coke particle: that's exactly the kind of wonkery I'm trying to avoid. =-)
18:35 * pmichaud files a ticket to generate a more useful error for rillian's case
18:36 rillian pmichaud: I did try that in my punctuation-fiddling phrase. "Method 'get_scalar' not found of invocant of class 'Undef'"
18:36 particle coke: wcoleda@gm...?
18:36 Coke yes
18:36 particle you're now a project owner
18:36 Coke I'll see if mdiep has a strong preference on whether or not to share.
18:36 pmichaud rillian: okay, then that means that something is returning 'Undef' for expression
18:36 rillian pmichaud: that does make the string literal work though, so you're on the right track
18:36 pmichaud then it's a problem with integer_constant
18:40 rillian how to I print the class of a variable?
18:40 pmichaud could try   $var.WHAT
18:40 pmichaud but I'm not sure that works yet.
18:41 dalek r27220 | pmichaud++ | trunk:
18:41 dalek : [rakudo]:
18:41 dalek : * Another ROADMAP update (modules and versions)
18:41 dalek diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn​/parrot/revision?rev=27220
18:42 particle c:\usr\local\parrot\clean\l​anguages\perl6>..\..\parrot perl6.pbc "say 1.WHAT"
18:42 particle Error: file cannot be read: say 1.WHAT
18:42 pmichaud particle:  need a -e
18:42 particle that's a *very* misleading error
18:42 particle er, right.
18:42 particle Int
18:42 pmichaud particle:  yes, but this isn't rakudo rillian is working on
18:43 particle yes, i know.
18:43 pmichaud I don't know if .WHAT is supported by Protoobject or NQP yet
18:43 particle it's not.
18:43 pmichaud I will undoubtedly add it.  Sooner if someone files a ticket.  :-)
18:43 pmichaud rillian:  you're going to hate me for this, but....
18:43 particle it's another feature to backport from rakudo
18:44 pmichaud in grammar.pg, line 50
18:44 pmichaud | <integer_constant> {*}#= integer_constant
18:44 pmichaud has an extra space at the end of the line
18:44 pmichaud so the key is coming in as "integer_constant "  and not "integer_constant"
18:45 particle ooh! Protoobject.pir *does* support .WHAT
18:45 pmichaud oh.  Then .WHAT should work on PAST::* nodes
18:45 particle i'm so far behind in parrot these days :(
18:45 particle yes, indeed.
18:45 rillian pmichaud: no, I am *very* grateful you noticed that. because I never would have.
18:46 rillian time to make my editor ugly on such things, I guess
18:46 pmichaud I guess PGE should strip trailing blanks when figuring out #= keys
18:46 particle rillian: do you use vim?
18:46 rillian nano
18:46 * particle has yet to find someone that uses kate
18:46 pmichaud .oO(...someone uses an iPod for parrot development?  wow!)
18:47 rillian "smart whitespace matching, except in magic comment strings!"
18:47 rillian pmichaud: :)
18:48 * particle has a command in vim to trim trailing whitespace
18:48 particle " remove trailing whitespace
18:48 particle map  ,ts :%s/\s\+$//<Enter>
18:48 particle imap ,ts <Esc>:%s/\s\+$//<Enter>a
18:49 rillian yay, now it works! thanks much, all of you.
18:49 pmichaud thanks for being patient with us :-)
18:53 particle[ventus] ok, how do i set up ccache?
18:54 * particle[ventus] reads the manpage
18:54 Coke do you want it to just run for parrot, or for everything?
18:55 cotto_work ./configure --cc='ccache gcc'
18:55 cotto_work perl Configure.pl
18:55 Juerd (note: ccache is default on feather)
18:55 particle[ventus] coke: iunno, what do other folks do?
18:55 nopaste "pmichaud" at 76.183.97.54 pasted "my rebuild script (w/ccache)" (9 lines) at http://nopaste.snit.ch/12846
18:56 * rillian would find distcc more useful if it were possible to sanely cross-install cross-compilers.
18:56 particle[ventus] pmichaud: not make -j?
18:57 mj41 joined #parrot
18:57 pmichaud I haven't seen that make -j makes things significantly faster for me
18:58 pmichaud and I don't want to have to worry about whether the current parrot is -j capable or not
18:58 pmichaud I have other bugs to chase.  :-)
18:58 rillian er, just so I understand, having extra whitespace at the end of the key didn't stop my integer_constant method from being called, because *that* name matched the rule name, but when my expression method called make $($/{$key}), it did so with a $key that didn't exist, so we got an undef instead of the Past::Val object the integer_constant method had set. Is that right?
18:59 pmichaud rillian: exactly right.
18:59 rillian ta
18:59 pmichaud and Undef doesn't understand get_scalar yet
19:00 Coke in general, don't fear the -j anymore. =-)
19:00 Coke (but yes, avoiding borkage in parrot is good when you're working on a language.)
19:00 rillian if only I'd debug-printed $key with quotes around it like I did the actual constant
19:02 Coke particle[ventus]: (ccache) on feather, I just use gcc which is symlinked to ccache.
19:02 Coke on my mac, for historical reasons, I invoke ccache directly and pass the compiler as an arg.
19:02 Coke feather's setup is much easier.
19:04 * Infinoid just adds /usr/lib/ccache/bin/ to his PATH in his /etc/profile
19:04 Juerd I wanted a shared ccache initially
19:04 Juerd But that's problematic with file access permissions.
19:04 Juerd Never could get that to work well.
19:05 Infinoid hmm.  could probably merge everything into the same user using distcc, and then ccache that... but is it worth the overhead?
19:05 particle[ventus] well, i'm running on my laptop, and don't expect to be building much other than parrot
19:05 particle[ventus] so, i'll likely use the link approach
19:05 Infinoid particle[ventus]: do you have a /usr/lib/ccache/bin/ full of symlinks?
19:06 particle[ventus] /usr/lib/ccache is full of links
19:07 Infinoid you should be able to just add that to the front side of your PATH
19:07 ambs mine configuration
19:07 ambs [ambs@rachmaninoff SEPLN2008]$ ls -l /opt/ccache/
19:07 ambs total 32
19:07 ambs lrwxr-xr-x  1 root  admin  19  6 Abr 20:32 c++ -> ../local/bin/ccache
19:07 ambs lrwxr-xr-x  1 root  admin  19  6 Abr 20:32 cc -> ../local/bin/ccache
19:07 ambs lrwxr-xr-x  1 root  admin  19  6 Abr 20:32 g++ -> ../local/bin/ccache
19:07 ambs lrwxr-xr-x  1 root  admin  19  6 Abr 20:32 gcc -> ../local/bin/ccache
19:07 ambs :D
19:07 * ambs is a spammer
19:08 jalbo Did you sell replica ccaches?
19:08 Infinoid r3p l1c a
19:08 ambs hehehe
19:09 ambs Juerd, but yes, for feather a common ccache would be great
19:10 dalek r27221 | coke++ | trunk:
19:10 dalek : [tcl]
19:10 dalek : Begin movement of tcl tickets out of RT queue to simplify things for parrot.
19:10 dalek diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn​/parrot/revision?rev=27221
19:11 Juerd ambs: Maybe feather needs a sysadmin wiki, with its todo list
19:11 Infinoid TODO: add todo here
19:12 Juerd Right
19:12 Juerd I'm adding it to my personal todo list
19:12 Juerd It's probably worth the tuit investment.
19:12 * ambs doesnt use feather, for now
19:12 particle[ventus] joined #parrot
19:12 jalbo feather?
19:12 purl feather is http://feather.perl6.nl/ or a perl6 community development server
19:12 particle[ventus] how do i tell gnome-terminal to run my .profile every time?
19:12 Juerd particle[ventus]: You don't. You tell your *shell* to do that.
19:13 Infinoid run it from .bashrc or .zshrc or whatever
19:13 Juerd particle[ventus]: e.g. echo 'source ~/.profile' >> .bashrc
19:15 particle[ventus] that doesn't seem to do what i want
19:15 Coke and then you have to re-exec bash to get it for this session.
19:16 Coke or, "what do you want that that doesn't do?" =-)
19:16 particle[ventus] if i open a new terminal after doing that, i get a blank screen
19:17 particle[ventus] if i hit ctrl-c, it gives me a prompt
19:17 Coke can you nopaste your .bashrc and your .profile?
19:17 Coke is this on feather?
19:18 particle[ventus] no, it's on ventus, my laptop
19:20 Juerd Coke: I would be surprised if people used gnome-terminal on feather.
19:20 Coke oooh: http://event.perlbelarus.org/minsk2008/
19:21 jalbo Maybe your .profile exec your .bashrc, some distros do that by default.
19:22 particle[ventus] indeed, .profile contains #include .bashrc if it exists
19:22 Coke freaky.
19:23 particle[ventus] still, setting PATH="/usr/lib/ccache:$PATH" in .profile doesn't work
19:23 Infinoid put it in .bashrc then
19:23 Coke you'll need to export it, too.
19:24 particle[ventus] no need to export. works from .bashrc.
19:24 Infinoid I'm not so sure... you will need to export if you want GNU make to run the same thing your shell does
19:24 jalbo PATH is always already exported, unless you make some unusual.
19:24 Infinoid ok :)
19:25 Juerd jalbo: If you change it, you get a local non-exported copy afaik
19:26 * Coke wonders how much of his unix experience is cargo culted from 12 year old aix and xenix, and 10 year old solaris.
19:26 jalbo Juerd: if you change it in a subshell, but in a .profile is not the case.
19:26 Juerd Aha
19:27 jalbo Coke: I believe that Unix is a cargo cult, entirely.
19:28 rillian my favorite definition of a scripting language is that you don't ever actually know what you're doing, you just cut-and-paste from something similar and twiddle the punctuation until it works
19:29 Infinoid well, that covers Java pretty well
19:29 jalbo rillian: I have seen a lot of C code written that way, also.
19:29 Infinoid hrm.  win32 has a Sleep() that takes a millisecond argument.  but its not in time.h, its in windows.h.  well, whatever, maybe I can use that to fix mingw's sleep
19:30 particle[ventus] ok, so how do i know that ccache is working?
19:30 Infinoid particle[ventus]: rm -rf ~/.ccache, compile something, see if it was recreated
19:30 particle[ventus] it's enough for me to know that ~/.ccache now exists. Infinoid++
19:31 Infinoid you probably want to set a maximum size on the cache directory, at some point.  ccache --help
19:31 Infinoid it filled up my 5GB /home partition before I noticed it :P
19:31 Juerd particle[ventus]: Compile something twice with a make clean in between, and if it's much faster the second time around, then ccache works ;)
19:31 particle[ventus] i have 1 20GB partition here
19:32 Infinoid a big SVN::BinarySearch will use up a surprising amount
19:32 Infinoid or App::SVNBinarySearch or whatever it is :)
19:32 Juerd It sucks when a make script regenerates a non-changed file. Then ccache thinks it has to be recompiled.
19:33 jalbo If it not works, build a longer airport until cargo comes.
19:33 Infinoid uh, no, ccache decides that based on the md5sum of the preprocessor output
19:33 Juerd Infinoid: Really? Has it always done that?
19:33 Infinoid it has for the last couple of years at least... that's how long I've been using it
19:34 Coke (App::SVNBinarySearch) holy crap, people use that?
19:34 jrockway_ joined #parrot
19:34 * Coke feels guilty.
19:34 Infinoid Coke: yeah!  it's a great way to fill up your ccache. :)
19:34 Coke Infinoid: HA! glad to help.
19:34 * particle[ventus] is surprised that coke is still shocked about that
19:34 Juerd Infinoid: Hm...
19:34 particle[ventus] however, particle[ventus] has never used it
19:35 Coke particle[ventus]: it was basically a proof of concept someone convinced me to put on cpan.
19:35 Juerd someone++
19:35 particle[ventus] it's too stupid to use svn log, right?
19:36 particle[ventus] i mean, to determine which revs are in the branch you're testing
19:40 jalbo Talking about cpan, is amusing when you can't update Test::Harness because his test need an updated Test::Harness
19:40 ruoso joined #parrot
19:41 Infinoid jalbo: perhaps they should add a 'use blib' to the test?
19:41 jalbo Don't know, I just forced the install and tested later.
19:42 jalbo But maybe that's a barrier for possible testers.
19:42 Infinoid yeah, probably
19:42 purl yeah, probably is something that needs doin/working on
19:42 Coke particle[ventus]: (too stupid) yes.
19:43 particle[ventus] coke: the overhead might be worth it on large projects like parrot, but probably not for small stuff
19:43 particle[ventus] anyway, maybe someday i'll code it up. can't be too hard
19:46 Coke nope. pretty easy.
19:46 * Infinoid contemplates a svn-bisect command (similar to git-bisect)
19:46 Coke Infinoid: wots that?
19:47 Infinoid same idea, bit more manual intervention
19:47 Infinoid you give it some initial bounds, and then say "git-bisect good" or "git-bisect bad"
19:47 Infinoid and it goes and updates to the next rev for you to try
19:47 Infinoid for some reason, that fits into my brain a bit better than writing a "realclean; configure; make; test && echo 1" script
19:48 Coke Infinoid: next version of app:svnbs will not do an update, but a co or export avoiding the need for most of the infrastructure.
19:49 particle[ventus] export++
19:49 particle[ventus] (unnecessary metadata)--
19:49 Infinoid Coke: sounds like that would be a lot cleaner
19:50 Infinoid there's always the danger of some rev having a bug that modifies a file tracked by svn, which means I've had to add a "svn revert -R ." to the cleanup section of the script
19:50 Infinoid so if the script doesn't need a cleanup section, I'm all for it :)
19:51 jrockway joined #parrot
19:59 Coke obra++
19:59 * Infinoid adds a Parrot_usleep() to the various platforms
20:04 barney joined #parrot
20:05 dalek r27222 | chromatic++ | trunk:
20:05 dalek : [src] Added STRUCT_COPY_FROM_STRUCT macro to perform struct copy when the
20:05 dalek : source is not a pointer (NotFound, RT #53352).
20:05 dalek diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn​/parrot/revision?rev=27222
20:07 Coke obra++
20:07 IllvilJa joined #parrot
20:13 * jalbo is NotFound
20:15 Zaba_ joined #parrot
20:22 rdice joined #parrot
20:49 Infinoid ah.  jalbo++
21:05 sjansen joined #parrot
21:34 Theory joined #parrot
21:54 jrockway joined #parrot
21:56 jrockway joined #parrot
21:58 grim_fandango joined #parrot
22:03 rdice joined #parrot
22:12 AndyA joined #parrot
22:13 jalbo left #parrot
22:15 dalek r27223 | chromatic++ | trunk:
22:15 dalek : [src] Ported more STRUCT_COPY uses to STRUCT_COPY_FROM_STRUCT (missed in
22:15 dalek : r27222, more of RT #53352 from NotFound).
22:15 dalek diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn​/parrot/revision?rev=27223
22:18 wknight8111 joined #parrot
22:20 davidfetter joined #parrot
22:31 Limbic_Region joined #parrot
22:38 dalek r27224 | chromatic++ | trunk:
22:38 dalek : [spec] Updated spec file; tested with Fedoras 7, 8, and 9-beta (Gerd Pokorra,
22:38 dalek : RT #53450).
22:38 dalek diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn​/parrot/revision?rev=27224
22:58 * Limbic_Region just noticed that rakudo's make spectest seems to be passing more tests on Win32/Cygwin
22:59 wknight8111 I'm getting an error for  "make perl6" on WinXP. Problem linking to "MSVCR90.dll". is this a real issue, or just a problem on my system?
22:59 wknight8111 I don't ignore the possibility that my system is just borked from years of haphazard configuration changes
23:09 japhb joined #parrot
23:11 Tene Hm.  Thinking about trying to add state vars to rakudo.
23:12 japhb Can Rakudo use modules from the 'parrot' namespace yet?
23:12 japhb And if so, what's the current syntax?
23:13 * japhb remembers back in Pugs land using 'use perl5:Foo::Bar;'
23:13 Limbic_Region wknight8111 - I do Win32/MinGW and Win32/Cygwin without issues
23:15 Tene japhb: jonathan said he was going to consider working on that, but I haven't seen any commit messages mentioning anything about it.
23:17 japhb jonathan: please please please please work on getting Rakudo to access other HLL namespaces (parrot at the least), sometime soon -- that's I think the next Big Block to me doing my OpenGL stuff in Perl 6 (since things are progressing on the Parrot side, and the triangle spins in PIR on at multiple platforms)
23:18 japhb s/ on at / on /
23:20 wknight8111 Limbic_Region, I'm using cl.exe. I must just have a bad configuration or something
23:23 tetragon joined #parrot
23:31 jonathan japhb: You're not the first person to ask for this kinda thing...I will try and do something for you.
23:32 japhb jonathan: I very much appreciate it, with ample realization that I'm asking someone *else* to do work for something *I* want.  :-)
23:33 jonathan japhb: Sure, but I'm funded to improve Rakudo, and if you can make it do pretty graphics stuff, well, that's just cool. ;-)
23:33 japhb :-)
23:39 LimbicRegion joined #parrot
23:42 kid51 joined #parrot
23:46 * jonathan sleeps
23:48 dalek r27225 | chromatic++ | pdd25cx:
23:48 dalek : [exceptions] Removed Parrot_init_exceptions() and its residue.
23:48 dalek diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn​/parrot/revision?rev=27225
23:54 dalek chromatic@wgz.org | Concurrency Tasks:
23:54 dalek link: http://www.perlfoundation.org/pa​rrot/index.cgi?concurrency_tasks
23:54 shorten dalek's url is at http://xrl.us/bjqpy

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