Camelia, the Perl 6 bug

IRC log for #parrot, 2008-05-05

Parrot | source cross referenced

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:06 tetragon Bah, that's the currency sign, not an ?asterisk?
00:13 zarchne joined #parrot
00:14 Infinoid I wasn't aware that this game had rules. :)
00:15 Juerd What's an ?asterisk??
00:32 slightlyoff joined #parrot
00:32 slightlyoff left #parrot
00:33 tetragon A sign that your font selection doesn't cover the same range of Unicode glyphs as that on my system
00:33 Juerd Well, erm, I'm receiving actual question marks...
00:34 tetragon And I'm inputting various asterisk variants on my end
00:34 Juerd Could you give a codepoint number as an example?
00:36 tetragon Unicode: 273A, UTF-8: E29CBA, Name: sixteen pointed asterisk
00:36 Juerd ✺ renders well here
00:36 Juerd So I guess your client is not sending the right thing.
00:36 tetragon I've had no problems sending snowmen and the like in the past
00:37 Juerd Maybe nobody ever noticed that they were snowmen?
00:38 tetragon ?
00:38 Juerd ??
00:38 tetragon I'll be back in a moment
00:38 tetragon left #parrot
00:38 Juerd ☃ <- snowman
00:38 Juerd ? <- question mark :)
00:39 tetragon joined #parrot
00:39 Juerd ☃ <- snowman
00:39 Juerd ? <- question mark :)
00:39 tetragon
00:39 Juerd Ah, that's the star.
00:39 tetragon Somewhat brain-dead client
00:39 Juerd I see
00:39 tetragon
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02:10 jjuran Unlike the famous actor Gary Johnston I didn't major in World Languages (or theater), so can someone remind me which language requires a snowman glyph?
02:11 Tene So, any ideas on how I can generate a PIR == from NQP?
02:11 Tene NQP's == ends up generating a cmp_num
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02:26 tetragon jjuran: The snowman is in the miscellaneous symbols range, along with umbrellas, chess pieces, recycling symbols, and other miscellaneous glyphs
02:27 tetragon http://unicode.org/charts/PDF/U2600.pdf
02:31 Zaba joined #parrot
02:42 jjuran Informally known as 'dingbats', yes?  Thanks.
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02:43 Tene ah, the problem wasn't cmp_num, the problem was that I needed to use prefix:+
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03:18 dalek r27324 | tene++ | trunk:
03:18 dalek : Allow trailing commas in rakudo.
03:18 dalek : This brings the number of passing subtests in t/spec to 666 for me.
03:18 dalek diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn​/parrot/revision?rev=27324
03:19 Tene Three more spectests no longer fail to parse.
03:20 Theory joined #parrot
03:20 Tene iirc, pmichaud++ said that the "real" fix for that needs to go in PCT, but this workaround isn't too bad.
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06:37 dalek r27325 | fperrad++ | trunk:
06:37 dalek : [Lua]
06:37 dalek : - disassembler : some rename (closer with Lua code)
06:37 dalek diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn​/parrot/revision?rev=27325
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11:44 moritz echo 'my Int $x = undef' | ../../parrot perl6.pbc
11:44 moritz Type check failed
11:44 moritz Jonathan: that should be allowed I think
11:45 moritz Jonathan: only low level types like int should disallow undef
12:05 Jonathan moritz: Agree, please file an RT ticket if you have chance.
12:05 Jonathan Won't have chance to look at Rakudo stuff today, but will be spending all of tomorrow on it.
12:06 moritz Jonathan: ok
12:08 moritz with parrotbug? or is there a web interface?
12:08 moritz purl: rt?
12:08 purl rt is probably just RT (http://bestpractical.com/rt) or (:rt3) or (: rt bugs) or Obra's trouble ticketing system or the first IBM RISC workstation (http://www.contrib.andrew.c​mu.edu/~shadow/ibmrt.html) or the bombsquad or the Right Thing or very very capable and open-source or an application framework that bundles a ticketing system or obra's baby or SOOOO slow :-S or email mailto:perlbug-owner@perl.org for access
12:09 moritz purl: parrotbug?
12:09 purl hmmm... parrotbug is mailto:parrotbug@parrotcode.org or http://svn.perl.org/parrot/​trunk/docs/submissions.pod
12:11 Jonathan moritz: No, it's email...well, just send to perl6-compiler@perl.org if you like, I'll see it there and I'll remind me.
12:11 Jonathan *it'll remind me...
12:11 moritz Jonathan: ok, I'll do it
12:12 Jonathan Thanks.
12:14 moritz done
12:51 iblechbot joined #parrot
13:21 * Coke ponders "This week on parrot" again.
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14:56 Coke 72+681+86
14:56 purl 839
14:57 davidfetter 1/0
14:58 * Coke moves 53666 into the perl6 queue.
14:58 rdice joined #parrot
15:02 Coke 71+681+86-23
15:02 purl 815
15:02 Coke # of tickets, if you subtract out the 23 remaining tcl tickets.
15:07 Jonathan Coke: What's the email address for the Perl 6 queue?
15:07 Jonathan Is it distinct from the Parrot one?
15:07 Coke perl 6 bugs?
15:07 Coke perl6 bugs?
15:07 purl it has been said that perl6 bugs is <mailto:perl6-bugs@perl.org>
15:07 Jonathan Yeah, to go into RT.
15:07 Jonathan Aha, OK.
15:07 Coke perl 6 bugs is perl6 bugs
15:08 Coke yes, the queues are distinct.
15:08 Jonathan We need to get that, and probably some other content, onto rakudo.org
15:08 Coke I have no control over that, but yes. Yes you do. =-)
15:08 Jonathan Well, I'd rather delegate it. ;-)
15:08 Jonathan But if nobody will take it on, it needs doing so I'll step in and do it.
15:08 mj41 joined #parrot
15:09 Jonathan Who has control over that? I'm sure there was plans to do this before...
15:09 mj41 joined #parrot
15:09 Coke Andy?
15:09 purl rumour has it Andy is the man with the feathered broom or mailto:andy@petdance.com or AIM:petdance or OK cat-xeger is BACK or trying to get Sun Studio 12 installed so I can lint lint lint
15:10 Coke Registrant Name:Andy Lester
15:10 Coke whois coleda.com
15:10 Andy ?
15:10 Coke guess purl doesn't know whois.
15:10 Jonathan Andy: I was just commenting on how it would be good if rakudo.org had more than just a blog there.
15:10 Andy Jonathan: You need an account on rakudo?
15:10 Jonathan I have an account to blog there.
15:11 Andy Indeed.  You have content to put out there?
15:11 Jonathan I'm just looking to have some static content there, like where to send bug reports, or to list what is done and the roadmap.
15:11 Juerd static content++  # if maintained
15:11 Jonathan Not much, just some essential bits, plus instructions on how to build it and stuff.
15:11 Coke note that parrotcode has the same issue: static good, maintaining hard.
15:12 Juerd esp. a list of what is done would be useful for me as a spectator
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15:12 Andy Whatever I can do, let me know.
15:12 Jonathan Juerd: Yes, I agree.
15:12 Jonathan Andy: What's the process? I'm willing to spend some time getting said content together.
15:12 Coke Andy: rgarding your question about the audience... I too am curious. It has to be someone who isn't subscribed to the mailing list, I think.
15:13 Coke though there is slightly more information not available to those just on list.
15:13 Andy Jonathan: Just write up some stuff and you can upload a page.  At least I think you can.  And if you can't, I'll make it so you can.
15:13 Andy how-to-build.html or whatever.
15:13 Jonathan OK, thanks.
15:13 Juerd Andy: It's Movable Type right?
15:13 Andy If we get fancy we can move to a CMS like Drupal or something, but for now, uploading pages in MT will probably be enough
15:13 Andy it is, Juerd, yes.
15:14 Juerd Andy: That has support for non-blog articles built in.
15:14 Andy Juerd: Yes, that's what I'm referring to.
15:14 Jonathan Will be flashing the URL around a bit at some conferences at the end of the month, so just want to have some clear building instructions and where to submit bugs and what you can expect to work etc on there for folks.
15:14 Juerd Andy: Ah. I was thinking of the useful wysiwyg editor and such.
15:14 Juerd Andy: As opposed to uploading
15:15 Andy Oh, I don't know of this editor you mean.
15:15 Juerd Er, the thing a default MT installation gives you when you edit a blog entry or page...
15:15 Juerd Or at least it does on mine :)
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15:36 particle anyone here interested in porting parrot to ibm's power architecture?
15:37 particle i'm talking to someone at ibm who may be able to get us access to some hardware
15:37 particle either running AIX or RHEL
15:38 Infinoid ppc64?
15:38 particle yep
15:38 particle dual-proc
15:38 Infinoid I'm interested, but doubt I have time to contribute much
15:39 paco i have a rs/6k with aix ..
15:39 Jonathan Ooh, hardware...
15:39 purl hardware is old fashioned
15:39 Jonathan :-)
15:40 particle i knew the hw geeks would come crawling out of the closet...
15:40 Infinoid purl is just jealous
15:43 Jonathan Wait wait wait, would this wind up with me having to understand and hack on the JIT?
15:43 Jonathan <terrified look>
15:43 Coke bah, we don't support JIT on our supported platforms yet, you don't have to support their jit yet either.
15:44 particle so true
15:44 Jonathan Don't support JIT?
15:45 Jonathan I agree it's probably far from complete and has issues, but there's something there for our supported platforms?
15:45 particle x86 and ppc have working jit
15:45 Jonathan And we need it for?
15:45 uniejo joined #parrot
15:46 Coke osx?
15:46 purl Coke probably means "Mac OS X".
15:46 cotto_work joined #parrot
15:47 particle x64
15:47 Jonathan Ah.
15:47 particle coke: jit is for processors, not for oses
15:47 Coke particle: not exactly.
15:47 Coke it's for osx/processors.
15:48 Coke er, os+processor.
15:48 Coke the jit for linux/x86 doesnt' work on osx/x86, AIUI.
15:49 particle that seems like a config thing.
15:50 Coke no, it's a code thing.
15:50 Coke well.
15:50 Coke config is code, so ok. =-)
15:50 Coke but just because it works one place doesn't mean it works on that processor out of the box everywhere, which is my point. =-)
15:53 Jonathan My take is that it's mostly a CPU thing, but it likely needs per-OS tweaks to make it work correctly. The majority of the work is CPU-specific rather than OS-specific.
15:53 Infinoid ...assuming its possible to set up the same environment for it to execute in, on all OSes
15:54 Infinoid (I'm not convinced this will be the case for linux vs windows on amd64, it sounds like they set up the CPU in very different modes)
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16:15 particle anyone running opensolaris?
16:16 * particle wonders what it would take to get parrot compiling on paco's rs/6000
16:17 particle did i say i miss working on aix? no? i don't. it reminds me too much of the days before i learned perl.
16:18 paco particle: i have to install the CL compiler, but I have gcc working in the aix ..
16:18 particle nice! a modern gcc?
16:20 paco yes I think so, but I don remember the version ..
16:20 particle 4.x would be wonderful
16:20 paco two months ago I reinstalled aix ..
16:21 paco and I have the cl compiler waiting for install .. :)
16:21 paco if someone wants I can give shell ..
16:21 paco is a power3-II
16:24 paco also I have an alpha machine with vms and some sgi's with irix. I can give shell in these machines too ..
16:24 particle do you have my entire past history of machines available?
16:24 particle sheesh.
16:25 paco i think so :) .. i have some VAX too
16:25 * particle misses his sgi onyx with realityengine^2 graphics
16:25 particle 3b3?
16:25 particle eh
16:25 particle 3b2?
16:25 paco no :(
16:26 paco but have a fiend who onws one ..
16:27 particle still, your computer museum sounds interesting :)
16:28 paco yes, I have interesting machines ..
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16:50 particle 0.037*60
16:50 purl 2.22
16:53 Theory joined #parrot
17:00 pmichaud no, perl6 bugs is <mailto:rakudobug@perl.org>
17:00 purl okay, pmichaud.
17:01 pmichaud parrotbug?
17:01 purl parrotbug is mailto:parrotbug@parrotcode.org or http://svn.perl.org/parrot/​trunk/docs/submissions.pod
17:01 pmichaud parrotbug is also see also "rakudobug"
17:01 purl okay, pmichaud.
17:01 pmichaud parrotbug?
17:01 purl parrotbug is probably mailto:parrotbug@parrotcode.org or http://svn.perl.org/parrot/​trunk/docs/submissions.pod or see also "rakudobug"
17:01 pmichaud rakudobug?
17:01 purl rakudobug is mailto:rakudobug@perl.org
17:03 pmichaud (rakudo.org content)  -- there's also the possibility of putting static content for rakudo onto the perl6 wiki
17:03 pmichaud with links from rakudo.org
17:12 Jonathan Possible, though having some content on rakudo.org itself would make it feel a little more "unified".
17:12 pmichaud well, I'm a little bugged at the moment that we have content in so manyplaces
17:13 pmichaud there's  dev.perl.org/perl6, the perl 6 wiki, rakudo.org, etc.
17:13 pmichaud I don't mind having it in so manyplaces as long as it's consistent and people can find it
17:13 Jonathan I don't propose to have anything non-specific to Rakudo on rakudo.org itself.
17:13 Jonathan Just what it is, how to build it, where to send bug reports, what's done, roadmap.
17:14 pmichaud well, if it's easy to keep information up-to-date on rakudo.org, then it'd probably be okay with me
17:14 pmichaud I'm just concerned it'll never get updated, so I want it to be on a place with easy updates (for non-committers and non-developers)
17:14 Jonathan I think that it's better for people who just want to play with Rakudo to have all the essentials in one place.
17:15 pmichaud agreed
17:15 Jonathan I'm thinking more end users than developers here.
17:15 pmichaud I'm not sure rakudo.org is that place
17:15 pmichaud I'm thinking the perl6 wiki might be easier to keep up-to-date
17:15 pmichaud i.e., I think that "all of the essentials" for rakudo users goes beyond just specifics about rakudo itself
17:16 pmichaud (maybe)
17:16 Jonathan Oh, sure, there will be info on Perl 6 language stuff, and I don't think we should have that on rakudo.org.
17:17 Jonathan It's just that if you google rakudo now, you end up at rakudo.org, plus it's the URL that I give out to people at conferences and so forth.
17:17 pmichaud that's a reasonable point.  but rakudo.org can have links that point to the perl6 wiki, yes?
17:17 pmichaud and we can keep the content there.
17:18 Jonathan We can do that.
17:18 Jonathan I think we can, anyway.
17:18 pmichaud given the choice of "content on rakudo.org but difficult to update" and "easy to update content but not on rakudo.org", I vote for the latter.
17:18 pmichaud If we can have easy-to-update content on rakudo.org, then that's even better.  =-)
17:19 Jonathan I think it's easy to update in the sense of not hard to actually do the changes, it's just that you need an account on rakudo.org to do that.
17:20 pmichaud well, whoever does the work gets to choose the forum, at this point.  :-)
17:21 pmichaud if we want this to be focused towards users rather than developers, I'd like to be able to encourage users to be able to create the content
17:21 pmichaud so that developers don't have to do it (as much)
17:22 Jonathan True.
17:22 moritz pmichaud++ # turning my mail into ticket
17:22 pmichaud yes, rt#53748.
17:22 pmichaud easy to forward. :-)
17:22 Jonathan is that the undef assignment one?
17:22 pmichaud yes.
17:22 Jonathan Ah, I was planning to fix that tomorrow anywya.
17:22 Jonathan *anyway
17:22 pmichaud what's the fix?
17:22 purl the fix is the financial information exchange protocol or at http://www.fixprotocol.org/ or in or Just One Fix or dngor has the start of a POE filter for it (ask him about it)
17:23 * Jonathan doesn't like the overhead of doing RT too
17:23 ambs joined #parrot
17:23 Jonathan I haven't decided yet. I have an answer (make the type checker happy assigning undef to anything), but before I go down that path I need to go read up on the whole, undef is no more kinda thing.
17:23 Coke 53750 seems to be a perl6 bug, not a parrot bug.
17:23 Jonathan I know there were changes.
17:24 pmichaud I'm wondering if it should instead create an undef'd Int
17:24 pmichaud a-la a protoobject
17:24 moritz Jonathan: but you can't assign undef to native types
17:24 Jonathan moritz: Sure, though those aren't implemented yet.
17:24 pmichaud moritz: we're not worrying about native types yet.
17:24 Coke (encourage users to create content) then just create pages on the wiki and link to them from rakudo.org
17:25 Jonathan pmichaud: If you write my Int $x; then $x is the Int proto-object today.
17:25 Jonathan I *think* that's the Right Thing.
17:25 pmichaud right, so I'm thinking that my Int $x = undef;   should do a similar thing
17:25 pmichaud we may need a p6l ruling on this one.
17:25 Jonathan Yeah, that would make sense.
17:26 Jonathan I'm not sure if the spec says something equivalent.
17:26 moritz that sounds like a confusion of container and content
17:26 pmichaud I don't know that it makes sense for $x to become a Failure object.
17:26 moritz IMHO
17:26 moritz but I'm not very familiar with implementing type systems ;)
17:26 Jonathan moritz: We don't actually have two separate PMCs, one for container and one for value, for scalars.
17:27 Jonathan Thus discussions can get fun on such things. :-)
17:27 pmichaud for   my Int $x;   does $x bind directly to the Int proto-object or is a clone made?
17:27 * moritz has to run, sorry
17:27 Jonathan I *think* directly at the moment.
17:28 pmichaud hmmm, that seems like it could be problematic
17:28 Jonathan Yeah.
17:28 pmichaud my Int $x;   $x = 5;    # changes the protoobject?
17:28 * Jonathan tests it
17:28 pmichaud possibly we want to adjust assignment so that assigning to a protoobject de-protos it
17:29 Jonathan my Int $x = 5; say $x; my Int $x; say $x;
17:29 Jonathan 5
17:29 Jonathan Int
17:29 pmichaud you used $x for both?
17:29 Jonathan Hmm, the compiler should maybe moan about that?
17:29 cognominal coke,  for #53750, parrot or perl6, why is the motivation for not listing the whole name?
17:29 Jonathan my Int $x = 5; say $x; my Int $y; say $y;
17:29 Jonathan 5
17:29 Jonathan Int
17:29 pmichaud try
17:30 pmichaud my Int $x; $x = 5; my Int $y; say $x; say $y;
17:30 Jonathan my Int $x; $x = 5; say $x; my Int $y; say $y;
17:30 Jonathan 5
17:30 Jonathan Int
17:30 pmichaud looks okay to me then :-)
17:30 Jonathan Yeah.
17:30 Jonathan I do remember doing *something* to make us not damage the proto object.
17:30 pmichaud okay, great.
17:30 Jonathan One unanswered question I have though.
17:31 Jonathan role Foo { ... }; my Foo $x;
17:31 Jonathan What is $x?
17:31 purl i've stored the hottest stuff in $xxx
17:31 pmichaud that's being discussed on p6l at the moment
17:31 Jonathan Same for subset EvenInt of Int where { $_ % 2 == 0 };
17:31 pmichaud but I remember chromatic saying that we don't instantiate roles
17:32 Jonathan my EvenInt $x; # what is $x now too
17:32 particle nope, can't instantiate roles. they're class-construction-time only
17:32 pmichaud for EvenInt, I'd guess that $x is an EvenInt
17:32 Jonathan OK, but when you are writing that declaration you are saying "we can assign something to $x that does this role"
17:32 particle no
17:33 Jonathan So I guess you just get an Undef with the correct type entry in %!properties
17:33 pmichaud er, there is no Undef
17:33 particle we're saying "automagically create a class with the same name as this role, and instantiate an object of that type"
17:33 particle s/type/class/ as not to mix syntax
17:34 Jonathan So how to we say "I want a variable that can hold any class that does this role"?
17:34 Jonathan s/to/do/
17:34 Jonathan Other than going to write a subset type for it...
17:34 particle i don't know any other way than subset
17:34 particle my $x does FooRole ??
17:34 Jonathan pmichaud: Yes, but what can I do with $x? If I print it, is it a failure?
17:35 pmichaud if it's not instantiated, it's a Failure
17:35 pmichaud (iiuc)
17:35 pmichaud you can assign to it, of course.
17:35 particle yes. failure is still somewhat undefined in the spec
17:35 Jonathan OK, so we need *something* that we can have $x be.
17:36 pmichaud why not an undefined Int with an EvenInt role constraint?
17:36 particle i was wondering if failure should keep some sort of state
17:36 Coke cognominal: if you can show me a case that doesn't invoke ".WHAT()", I might be able to answer that from a parrot standpoint.
17:36 Coke (but Iunno why perl6 does what it does. =-)
17:36 * pmichaud looks at rt#53750
17:37 Jonathan pmichaud: Not sure what you mean - I don't see EvenInt as a role in any way...
17:37 pmichaud Jonathan: okay, I should be quiet now then.  I haven't looked at roles in great detail in the spec yet.
17:37 pmichaud Jonathan: take your best guess and ask questions on p6c or p6l or #perl6 or wherever gets you an answer :-)
17:38 pmichaud cognominal: PGE::Match reports 'Match' because that's the way .WHAT is defined in S12
17:38 Jonathan pmichaud: My feeling is that a lot of this is kinda semi-spec'd. :-)
17:38 cognominal so I should call .name instead?
17:38 pmichaud from S12:      WHAT        the prototype object of the type, stringifies to short name
17:39 pmichaud Jonathan: I agree.  In which case I'm not the one who resolves the semi-ness -- that takes place on p6l.
17:39 pmichaud and there's been a discussion on classes and roles there recently, so we might just want to see how that resolves
17:39 pmichaud s/want/wait/
17:39 Jonathan pmichaud: Sure, but I was interested to hear your thoughts and understanding on it too.
17:39 pmichaud got it :-)
17:39 particle so in "my Int $x = undef;", $x contains a Failure object, which contains (or is) an exception. after that statement, it's an exception of type 'undef' (or whatever). postfix:<++> catches that exception, and sets $x to the default initial value of type Int, which is 0... then increments $x to 1.
17:40 particle that's my understanding, anyway.
17:40 pmichaud particle: is that recent?
17:40 particle my understanding? yes :)
17:40 cognominal pmichaud, so according to S12, I should use WHO to get to the long name?  not that it is implemented.
17:40 pmichaud cognominal: iiuc, the long name comes from .WHO
17:40 particle i may be wrong, but that's the way i picture it.
17:40 pmichaud correct, it's not implemented
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17:41 pmichaud particle: I was wanting to ask p6c/p6l if ++ still worked on undef objects
17:41 Jonathan cognominal: Implement it, or file a ticket if you want it in Rakudo, I may be able to do it.
17:41 cognominal ok
17:41 Jonathan cognominal: Looks like FPW accepted three of my talks.
17:42 particle pmichaud: my expectation for Int is that ++ should Just Work
17:42 particle and i think the way i described it, it will.
17:42 particle with an Int containing a Failure of type NaN, ++ won't work
17:43 cognominal Jonathan,  indeed
17:43 particle ...because that type of Failure isn't handled by ++
17:43 pmichaud particle: I don't disagree at all with your interpretation; I just know that failure handling of this sort is still a bit nebulous according to the spec
17:44 particle yes, indeed it is
17:44 pmichaud we can certainly go ahead and implement it this way for now, until the spec is made clearer
17:44 pmichaud but we should also post a message to p6c or p6l asking "what's the official answer?"
17:46 pmichaud re:  53750 -- it's not specific to rakudo, so it belongs in the parrot queue
17:47 cognominal nopast
17:47 cognominal nopaste
17:48 Coke pmichaud: how is "WHAT" not specific to perl6?
17:48 pmichaud because it's a part of PGE and PCT
17:48 pmichaud in this case, it's PGE and PCT that are implementing .WHAT
17:49 Coke But WHAT is specifically a perl6 thing, neh? That's now how we'd normally expect to interrogate core parrot, is it?
17:49 Coke s/now/not/
17:49 pmichaud since PGE is very perl 6ish at its core, it tends to follow the Perl 6 specs
17:50 Coke k.
17:50 pmichaud same for pct
17:50 Coke Also, I think you answered his question and can close the ticket. =-)
17:50 pmichaud well, perhaps the ticket needs to morph into "provide a .WHO method"
17:51 nopaste "cognominal" at 82.67.232.89 pasted "missing WHO in Protoobject" (17 lines) at http://nopaste.snit.ch/12890
17:51 pmichaud cognominal: what does .name() return if the original class is   ['PGE';'Match']  instead of 'PGE::Match' ?
17:51 pmichaud the later is going away
17:51 cognominal well, WHO and WHAT should not return strings but objects that stringifies to string. But thas a start.
17:51 pmichaud *latter
17:51 Coke Is PGE using "::" to indicate parrot's ;-separator? (should it not then return.... there you go.)
17:53 pmichaud cognominal: you're correct -- I haven't had an opportunity to get Protoobject.pir to catch up to doing true protoobjects
17:53 pmichaud and I'm wondering if I should just unify Protoobject.pir with rakudo somehow
17:54 pmichaud (so that one implementation handles both)
17:55 cognominal I update the ticket to mention what you have said
17:56 cognominal if I unserstand well, rakudo has his own protoobjects?
17:56 cognominal s/his/its/
18:00 Infinoid hmm.  sending Parrot-related email to @cpan.org addresses bounces; they think "Configure.pl" is a spam URL.
18:03 pmichaud at the moment rakudo has its own protoobjects, yes
18:03 pmichaud but I'm thinking that we can unify the two
18:04 pmichaud the non-rakudo protoobject was basically to get things working to the point that I could implement the rakudo one :-)
18:06 * Jonathan goes for dinner
18:06 Jonathan Doing my Rakudo day tomorrow.
18:06 pmichaud I should be around all day tomorrow
18:06 Jonathan OK, cool.
18:06 pmichaud might even get up a bit earlier to more closely match Jonathan-time
18:07 Jonathan I can get up a bit later to match yours too... ;-)
18:07 pmichaud enjoy dinner.  :-)
18:07 Jonathan Thanks :-)
18:08 pmichaud this month's release is on the 20th, yes?
18:08 particle yes
18:08 particle dump run, followed by lunch &
18:08 pmichaud so there's a little time to do some major pge refactor/breakage between then
18:09 pmichaud good.
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18:28 pmichaud cognominal: the WHO patch is fine; but I think I may try to do my Protoobject refactor tonight
18:28 pmichaud if not I'll go ahead and apply the WHO patch (unless you need it fairly soon)
19:06 cognominal pmichaud : the refactor is the right thing to do
19:09 Andy Jus tsent mail off to someone wanting to be a cage cleaner.
19:09 Andy I am interested in helping with the parrot project and thought that starting with cage cleaning woulf be a good place.  I have a few patches based on warnings during compilation already.  Are you still the one to contact about this?  Is there something that you know specifically needs help?
19:09 Andy Whooo!
19:11 ambs nice
19:11 ambs \o/
19:17 dalek rurban@cpan.org | Parrot Development on Windows:
19:17 dalek link: http://www.perlfoundation.org/parrot/i​ndex.cgi?parrot_development_on_windows
19:17 shorten dalek's url is at http://xrl.us/bjcdh
19:18 dalek rurban@cpan.org | Parrot Development on Windows:
19:18 dalek link: http://www.perlfoundation.org/parrot/i​ndex.cgi?parrot_development_on_windows
19:18 shorten dalek's url is at http://xrl.us/bjcdh
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19:39 cognominal pmichaud:  I am not sure about the  meaning  of long name in the definition of WHAT in S012,  this may be related to versionning of modules?
19:39 cognominal I really don't see the interest of WHAT being the last part of a name with '::'
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19:48 pmichaud cognominal: I'm simply going by what Pugs returns in that case
19:48 pmichaud for example,   say (1==1).WHAT;   returns "True" and not "Bool::True"
19:50 pmichaud similarly, that's what several of the test files seem to indicate
19:51 cognominal ok
20:02 Andy joined #parrot
20:09 barney pmichaud: Can I specify a namespace when calling a sub in PAST ?  :pirop("call"), :name("my_sub")
20:10 Jonathan barney: :namespace, and give it an array
20:10 Jonathan Or maybe a string will do.
20:10 pmichaud er, that's for defining a sub
20:10 Jonathan Oh?
20:10 pmichaud for calling a sub I don't know if :namespace works
20:10 Jonathan Ah. :-)
20:10 pmichaud but one can always do a PAST::Var node that does the lookup :-)
20:11 Jonathan Oh yes, it's postcircumfix stuff in Rakudo...
20:11 * Jonathan shouldn't try and do #parrot while working on Other Stuff.
20:11 pmichaud barney:  in other words, for the PAST::Op node with :pasttype('call'), have the first child be a PAST::Var node that looks up the sub in another namespace
20:11 dalek r27326 | bernhard++ | trunk:
20:11 dalek : [Plumhead]
20:11 dalek : decode Base64 encoded string, before using them in setting up PAST
20:11 dalek diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn​/parrot/revision?rev=27326
20:12 barney pmichaud: I see
20:12 tewk Andy could headerize make a pretty signature in comments for functions?  All the visual cruft headerize adds really hurts skimability
20:13 dalek r27327 | infinoid++ | trunk:
20:13 dalek : [pmc_freeze] r24867 removed a potential bug, but didn't remove the
20:13 Andy I'm not sure what you're sking.
20:13 dalek : XXX comment about it.  Remove that too.
20:13 dalek diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn​/parrot/revision?rev=27327
20:13 Andy give me a specific.
20:13 Andy a specific file/funciton
20:14 tewk src/packfile.c:71
20:14 Andy k, hold on.
20:14 Andy still doing an update on this machine, which I haven't for eons.
20:15 tewk No rush just a suggestion.
20:15 pmichaud (could also look on http://svn.perl.org/parrot/trunk/src/packfile.c :-)
20:15 Andy OK, so you're talking about the function declaration on statics?
20:15 Andy because the function declaration at the body is much less cluttery.
20:16 tewk yeah
20:16 Andy there's not much that can be stripped from there.
20:16 Andy not much = none
20:17 Andy because the compiler/splint needs to see all those modifiers.
20:17 Coke tewk: did you want it stripped or just formatted differently?
20:17 Andy What do you see as a "signature" on it?
20:20 tewk Its not that big a deal, but a list of statics can be seen as a table of contents for the file, I was thinking of a comment section /* static PackFile_Segment * byte_code_new(interp, PackFile *pf, const char *name, int add); ... */
20:22 tewk Sorry I just have to complain every once in a while:) I also think code lines need to be 200+ characters before they should be line wrapped. Just ignore me.
20:23 tewk On a lighter note, I'm investigating using gcc-dehydra from mozilla for parsing c header files to make NCI signatures.
20:25 spinclad particle, pmichaud et al: imo, thinking of Int (the protoob) as a generic integer, Int++ should still be Int; and NaN should do the same; and C<my Rat $q> and C<my Rat $q = 0/0> (a rational NaN) should be (close to?) interchangeable, at least arithmetically.
20:26 tewk Replicating gcc parsing in c99 could turn into a rabbit hole. Once I'd recursed through 3 or 4 different rabbit holes I started looking for alternatives.
20:26 tewk dehydra is pretty simple/cool
20:27 pmichaud spinclad: what about the general case of:    my $x;  $x++;
20:29 Infinoid tewk: oh, nice... too bad its gcc-specific
20:29 Infinoid tewk: and on a heavier note, I was thinking exactly the same thing, reading through packfile.c last night :)
20:31 tewk Well I started working on c99, then I got frustrated with PGE error stack traces, so then I started working on pdd13 annotations to improve PGE error reporting, at which point I realized dehydra may be an alternative.
20:32 pmichaud how do you want the PGE error trace to improve?
20:32 tewk llvm clang project is coming along pretty well too, but dehydra works today.  I wrote a two line script that found every global variable in a code base that I'm trying to make thread safe.  It was cool.
20:33 Infinoid wow
20:33 pmichaud oops, gotta run pick up the wife.  bbl
20:34 tewk pmichaud: I want grammar.pg line numbers as well as generated pir line numbers.  Someday I'm going to write a cool debugger for pge too. :)
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23:08 cotto_work is there any language in the repo that does a good job of implementing OOP?
23:09 cotto_work (i.e. doesn't reinvent the wheel where it's not necesary)
23:10 tewk cotto_work: close to functioning OO is a recent feature in parrot, perl6 is probably the most advanced example, there are still namespace issues to be resolved.
23:11 cotto_work I was afraid of that
23:11 Tene cotto_work: what were you hoping for?
23:11 tewk Particularly when reusing core PMC names, it (OO)  is a whole lot closer to ideal than it was before the last revamp.
23:12 cotto_work I'm trying to figure out what needs to be done to support PHP's OO features
23:12 tewk Getting OO right at parrots scope is a monumental task.  And amazingly we are getting close.
23:13 cotto_work I got some idea of that looking at the object and class PMCs
23:15 wknight8111 I desperately want to update PIR to be better at OO. Having to call add_attribute and set_attribute repeatedly is giving my fingers chafe
23:16 Tene wknight8111: PIR has some sort of macro support, iirc.
23:16 wknight8111 "some sort of support" is good. I'm aiming for "lots of freaking support"
23:16 particle[ventus] see runtime/parrot/include/hll.pir for macros iirc
23:17 particle[ventus] hllmacros.pir?
23:17 Jonathan Yes, Rakudo does quite a bit of OO stuff; I think it's the only HLL using roles.
23:17 Tene t/compilers/imcc/syn/macro.t
23:21 kid51 joined #parrot
23:25 wknight8111 oh wow, some of these macros in hllmacros.pir are fantastically useful!
23:25 Coke thank particle.
23:25 wknight8111 particle++

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