| Time |
S |
Nick |
Message |
| 00:10 |
|
pmichaud |
q |
| 00:57 |
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| 01:11 |
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| 03:09 |
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| 04:17 |
|
cotto_home |
parrot? |
| 04:17 |
|
purl |
parrot is, like, our teacher, our mother, our secret lover or the reason Dan started or the reason Dan left or pretty onionish:) |
| 04:25 |
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| 05:00 |
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| 05:11 |
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| 05:19 |
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| 05:31 |
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| 05:39 |
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Coke joined #parrot |
| 05:39 |
|
Coke |
I'm going to poke albany-pm to play with Rakudo. |
| 05:47 |
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Coke joined #parrot |
| 06:06 |
|
* Coke |
smacks the pm.org mail server around. |
| 06:06 |
|
Coke |
configure.pl is not a spammy domain name. it's not even registered. |
| 06:08 |
|
Eevee |
ha |
| 06:09 |
|
Coke |
I can't send a message to albany-pm pm.org telling them how to build parrot. |
| 06:09 |
|
Eevee |
clbuttic overzealous regex use |
| 06:10 |
|
Coke |
I think it's a prank entry, too. |
| 06:10 |
|
Coke |
dig configure.pl is pretty quiet. |
| 06:11 |
|
Tene |
So, how do we get dalek back? |
| 06:12 |
|
Coke |
ping the mailing list. |
| 06:12 |
|
purl |
I can't find the in the DNS. |
| 06:13 |
|
Coke |
ping configure.pl |
| 06:13 |
|
purl |
I can't find configure.pl in the DNS. |
| 06:13 |
|
Coke |
ping yahoo.com |
| 06:13 |
|
purl |
10 packets transmitted, 10 packets received, 0% packet loss |
| 06:13 |
|
Coke |
(configure.pl) and, good luck forwarding the bounce message to supportpm.org =-) |
| 06:14 |
|
* Coke |
finally gets a message past google. |
| 06:14 |
|
Coke |
yay nopaste. |
| 06:14 |
|
Coke |
-> abed |
| 06:14 |
|
Eevee |
just do something clever like $ './configure''.pl' |
| 06:15 |
|
Eevee |
well. "clever" |
| 06:17 |
|
japhb |
Anyone here understand Parrot's namespaces and/or what the following PIR translates to: 'P0 = some_func(some_arg)'? If so, I need to pick your brain. Mmmm, brains .... |
| 06:18 |
|
japhb |
FWIW, I tried './parrot -o foo.pasm foo.pir', and got a file that doesn't make a whole lot of sense, especially given that it starts off with a warning about IMCC-generated PASM being wrong .... |
| 06:26 |
|
|
uniejo joined #parrot |
| 06:32 |
|
japhb |
Is there a Parrot bytecode decompiler? |
| 06:34 |
|
Patterner |
src/disassemble.c maybe... |
| 06:35 |
|
|
Zaba_ joined #parrot |
| 06:36 |
|
japhb |
Hmmm, doesn't seem to be compiled ... |
| 06:38 |
|
Patterner |
gcc -I./include -o src/disassemble src/disassemble.c -L./blib/lib -lparrot # or something like that |
| 06:38 |
|
japhb |
Yeah, I was grepping around for that |
| 06:38 |
|
japhb |
It looks like the makefile has rules for it, they're just not used |
| 06:39 |
|
japhb |
oooh ... 'make disassemble' seems to work |
| 06:39 |
|
japhb |
IMHO, that ought to be done by default. |
| 06:40 |
|
Patterner |
maybe it's outdated... |
| 06:40 |
|
japhb |
It's a small wrapper around embed.c |
| 06:40 |
|
japhb |
So one hopes it's kept up to date |
| 06:41 |
|
Patterner |
hmmm... gcc links it to the old parrot lib in /usr/lib64... not good... |
| 06:41 |
|
japhb |
It does seem to find chromatic's recent 'find_sub_not_null_p_sc', that's a good sign |
| 06:48 |
|
japhb |
What would you call a script that weaves disassembled bytecode back into the original source? Because I'm about to write one .... |
| 06:51 |
|
Patterner |
pbc_to_pasm? |
| 06:54 |
|
nopaste |
"Patterner" at 85.177.224.33 pasted "add "disassemble" to the list of files to create" (13 lines) at http://nopaste.snit.ch/12950 |
| 06:56 |
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| 07:14 |
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| 07:21 |
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UltraDM joined #parrot |
| 07:25 |
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masak joined #parrot |
| 07:31 |
|
japhb |
Hmmm. Disassembled "source line numbers" seem to not always match actual source line numbers. |
| 07:32 |
|
* japhb |
vaguely recalls someone mentioning that debug info in the PBCs was not entirely correct ATM, and this seems to be bearing that out. |
| 07:47 |
|
nopaste |
"japhb" at 76.191.190.8 pasted "Woven source/disassembler output" (243 lines) at http://nopaste.snit.ch/12951 |
| 07:49 |
|
japhb |
You can see that for some reason that 'if' and 'get_params' opcodes for some reason appear before the source lines that correspond to them. |
| 07:49 |
|
* japhb |
repeats himself |
| 07:51 |
|
* japhb |
decides to sleep on it. |
| 08:00 |
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| 08:40 |
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| 09:05 |
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| 09:14 |
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| 09:31 |
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| 11:03 |
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| 11:17 |
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| 11:42 |
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| 12:41 |
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| 12:42 |
|
Coke |
japhb: if you want to see what bytecode is getting executed for that, try "parrot -t1 foo.pir" |
| 12:42 |
|
Coke |
it shows each opcode as it goes by. |
| 13:11 |
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| 13:15 |
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| 13:30 |
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| 13:30 |
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| 13:34 |
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| 13:41 |
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| 13:45 |
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| 13:49 |
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| 14:26 |
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| 14:27 |
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| 14:32 |
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NotFound joined #parrot |
| 14:32 |
|
NotFound |
Hello. |
| 14:33 |
|
NotFound |
We have other bunch of code candidate for deletion? #54062 |
| 14:38 |
|
|
IllvilJa joined #parrot |
| 14:40 |
|
Coke |
pmichaud: nice segfault. |
| 14:40 |
|
Coke |
it is pointing out what a twisty maze our opcode building is. |
| 14:40 |
|
pmichaud |
indeed. |
| 14:40 |
|
NotFound |
Are you in Jedi mood? |
| 14:40 |
|
pmichaud |
the register coercion table I'm building is, well, messy. |
| 14:41 |
|
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cjfields joined #parrot |
| 14:42 |
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Theory joined #parrot |
| 14:43 |
|
Coke |
pmichaud: I think the problem is that we're using mmd, it's getting sent down the String PMC path, but is really a STRING. |
| 14:43 |
|
Coke |
so when we try to invoke the vtable, boom. I think. checking. |
| 14:43 |
|
pmichaud |
okay. I don't need it -- I just happened to notice it while playing with a few things. |
| 14:52 |
|
Coke |
or, the line numbers could be off in the pmc -> c conversion. :| |
| 14:55 |
|
Coke |
hurm. can we do dispatch on base types? |
| 14:55 |
|
particle |
iirc yes |
| 14:58 |
|
Infinoid |
hmm... I didn't do anything parrot-related at all this week. :( |
| 15:01 |
|
particle |
i hate when that happens. |
| 15:04 |
|
Tene |
orite, #ps today, ya? |
| 15:04 |
|
NotFound |
Some comment on #54062? Can the function Parrot_find_vtable_meth be deleted? |
| 15:05 |
|
particle |
tene: ya |
| 15:05 |
|
Coke |
NotFound: depends a lot on if any tests fail if you remove it. =-) |
| 15:05 |
|
NotFound |
Coke: none. |
| 15:06 |
|
pmichaud |
NotFound: +1 |
| 15:06 |
|
purl |
1 |
| 15:07 |
|
pmichaud |
NotFound: your analysis looks completely correct to me. I'll be glad to see us get rid of this very large function. |
| 15:07 |
|
Coke |
In general, I don't see any issue with removing unused functions, no. |
| 15:07 |
|
NotFound |
There is some prize to the most prolific code deleter? ;) |
| 15:07 |
|
Coke |
I can go ahead and apply that. |
| 15:07 |
|
Coke |
NotFound: I was trying to win that, but wil happily cede to you. |
| 15:08 |
|
japhb |
Coke: thanks for the -t1 tip |
| 15:11 |
|
NotFound |
By the way, I noticed that the CREDITS file has an unicode mark converted to utf8 at his start. Is this intentional? |
| 15:11 |
|
|
sjansen joined #parrot |
| 15:12 |
|
moritz |
it's not a normal BOM? |
| 15:13 |
|
Juerd |
moritz: thanks! |
| 15:13 |
|
Juerd |
Feather has new SSH keys: rsa => 44:88:fb:48:cb:79:72:da:67:bd:18:4f:84:d9:2a:cf, dsa => cf:8c:46:ff:41:f5:b5:e0:07:73:3d:6b:30:7c:2f:56 |
| 15:13 |
|
NotFound |
Looks like that, but I have readed somewhere that they must be ignored when converting to utf8. |
| 15:14 |
|
moritz |
NotFound: the file *is* in utf8 and doesn't need to be converted any more |
| 15:15 |
|
moritz |
NotFound: or what do you want to do with it? |
| 15:15 |
|
NotFound |
moritz: yeah, I mean the editor that someone used to write the file. |
| 15:15 |
|
NotFound |
moritz: I just noticed it in the diff file. |
| 15:15 |
|
|
kj joined #parrot |
| 15:17 |
|
moritz |
fperrad in r9495 |
| 15:17 |
|
moritz |
doesn't look bad to me |
| 15:19 |
|
|
peepsalot joined #parrot |
| 15:20 |
|
Coke |
NotFound: you going to send in a patch to delete those unused functions? |
| 15:20 |
|
Coke |
(saving me the trouble of doing so? =-) |
| 15:21 |
|
NotFound |
I'm working on it. |
| 15:22 |
|
particle |
FASTER!!! |
| 15:22 |
|
purl |
*whutcchhh* *whutcchhh* or Citius, Altius, Fortius! or the wrong goal |
| 15:22 |
|
NotFound |
Sir, yes, sir! |
| 15:22 |
|
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jhorwitz joined #parrot |
| 15:23 |
|
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lidden joined #parrot |
| 15:25 |
|
Tene |
purl: #parrotsketch? |
| 15:25 |
|
purl |
#parrotsketch is the channel where the core parrot committers report weekly status or moderated by our project manager, coke |
| 15:25 |
|
Tene |
purl: I wanted you to tell me the time. I'm disappointed in you. |
| 15:25 |
|
purl |
Tene: what? |
| 15:26 |
|
Infinoid |
purl, parrotsketch? |
| 15:26 |
|
purl |
parrotsketch is a status meeting for parrot core committers held every Tuesday at 18:30 UTC in #parrotsketch |
| 15:26 |
|
Tene |
feh |
| 15:26 |
|
* particle |
pounds purl |
| 15:26 |
|
Tene |
Infinoid-- # being more awesome than me |
| 15:26 |
|
Infinoid |
purl, #parrotsketch is also 18:30 UTC |
| 15:26 |
|
purl |
okay, Infinoid. |
| 15:26 |
|
particle |
Infinoid: a day of week would help... |
| 15:27 |
|
Infinoid |
Tene++ # being awesome in different ways |
| 15:27 |
|
particle |
karma Infinoid |
| 15:27 |
|
purl |
infinoid has karma of 172 |
| 15:27 |
|
particle |
karma Tene |
| 15:27 |
|
purl |
tene has karma of 45 |
| 15:27 |
|
particle |
ut-oh. tene has some catching up to do |
| 15:27 |
|
Tene |
That's a boring number. I need more commits. |
| 15:27 |
|
|
Zaba_ joined #parrot |
| 15:28 |
|
particle |
it adds up to nine, which is a nice number |
| 15:29 |
|
Infinoid |
one more -- and I'd add up to nine too :) |
| 15:31 |
|
moritz |
rakudo segfaults on t/00-parrot/05-var.t |
| 15:32 |
|
particle |
karma particle |
| 15:32 |
|
purl |
particle has karma of 1315 |
| 15:32 |
|
particle |
ooh, same for me! |
| 15:32 |
|
particle |
infinoid-- |
| 15:32 |
|
particle |
now me! |
| 15:32 |
|
Tene |
particle-- |
| 15:32 |
|
moritz |
particle: fix that rakudo segfault and I'll give you +8 |
| 15:32 |
|
moritz |
particle: or +9, now ;) |
| 15:33 |
|
particle |
9++ |
| 15:33 |
|
particle |
moritz: rebuilding parrot now |
| 15:33 |
|
particle |
moritz: can you try running the test with -G? |
| 15:34 |
|
moritz |
particle: no segfault wiht -G |
| 15:34 |
|
Coke |
#parrotsketch is also tuesdays. |
| 15:34 |
|
purl |
okay, Coke. |
| 15:35 |
|
particle |
moritz: good, that means that anybody can probably reproduce it with parrot --runcore=gcdebug |
| 15:36 |
|
particle |
AHA! that reminds me, i want to deprecate the parrot options that --runcore= replaces |
| 15:36 |
|
particle |
there is a ticket for that work, and i probably own it. |
| 15:36 |
|
moritz |
could it be that gcdebug is *freakin* slow? |
| 15:37 |
|
particle |
yes |
| 15:37 |
|
particle |
it runs gc after every opcode |
| 15:37 |
|
NotFound |
Looks like make test is actually using --gc-debug |
| 15:37 |
|
particle |
--gc-debug ne --runcore=gcdebug |
| 15:37 |
|
particle |
(confusing options)-- |
| 15:38 |
|
NotFound |
moritz: oh, no, is very fast... catching bugs. |
| 15:39 |
|
moritz |
NotFound: it runs for about 4 minutes on that short file without any output so far |
| 15:39 |
|
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wknight8111 joined #parrot |
| 15:40 |
|
NotFound |
moritz: that's good, it means that the code is less prone to have gc bugs. |
| 15:41 |
|
moritz |
NotFound: it's bad because it means that say '1..12'; in perl6 translates to a freakin' lot of opcodes |
| 15:41 |
|
NotFound |
But they are good opcodes, at least ;) |
| 15:43 |
|
NotFound |
Searching a bug the other day I take a look at severar perl6-generated pir files, seems to have a lot of unneeded register copy. |
| 15:43 |
|
Coke |
moritz: this is why it's key to trim the HLL code down to the bare minimum to generate the error. |
| 15:44 |
|
moritz |
Coke: I'll try that |
| 15:45 |
|
moritz |
unfortunately the segfault goes away if I remove something as simple as 'say "1..12"' |
| 15:46 |
|
|
jan joined #parrot |
| 15:47 |
|
* moritz |
gives up |
| 15:47 |
|
moritz |
*any* removed line will remove the segfault |
| 15:48 |
|
NotFound |
Patch ready, tested and sended, sir! |
| 15:48 |
|
Coke |
NotFound++ |
| 15:49 |
|
Coke |
moritz: good enough. but if you can duplicate the segfault... let me ask you... why are you running with the gc debug cor? |
| 15:49 |
|
* NotFound |
is Code Undertaker |
| 15:49 |
|
Coke |
(there's no point then, is there?) |
| 15:49 |
|
moritz |
Coke: because particle suggested it ;) |
| 15:49 |
|
Coke |
don't listen to him. =-) |
| 15:50 |
|
* moritz |
stops listening to particle |
| 15:50 |
|
Coke |
if you can generate a segfault, get the stacktrace and put it in the ticket. |
| 15:50 |
|
Coke |
(or fix it!) |
| 15:50 |
|
moritz |
how do I obtain the stack trace? |
| 15:50 |
|
Coke |
what platform are you on? |
| 15:50 |
|
particle |
i said anyone can replicate it with gcdebug runcore |
| 15:50 |
|
moritz |
linux |
| 15:50 |
|
Coke |
gdb ./parrot |
| 15:50 |
|
particle |
moritz already has it, so doesn't need to replicate it |
| 15:51 |
|
moritz |
ok |
| 15:51 |
|
Coke |
run languages/perl6/perl6.pbc languages/perl6/t/the_file.t |
| 15:51 |
|
Coke |
then 'bt' |
| 15:52 |
|
NotFound |
moritz: you listened to it! |
| 15:53 |
|
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gryphon joined #parrot |
| 15:58 |
|
Coke |
NotFound: you delete 3 functions, but only one func def? |
| 15:58 |
|
Coke |
(were the others missing from the .h?) |
| 16:00 |
|
* particle |
hopes NotFound ran 'make headerizer' after removing the functions |
| 16:00 |
|
NotFound |
2 functions, one header in .h and the other the in the .c file for the static function. |
| 16:00 |
|
Coke |
can we make headerizer just run when it needs to? |
| 16:01 |
|
Coke |
(or in --maintainer, at least; need to reduce the complexity of managing the build.) |
| 16:01 |
|
NotFound |
particle: eeeehhh... no. |
| 16:02 |
|
Coke |
(running headerizer doesn't affect those two files in re: the patch, but does affect about six others.) |
| 16:02 |
|
Coke |
either that means we're due to re-run it, or it's borked. |
| 16:02 |
|
NotFound |
But include/parrot/oo.h seems to not be auto generated. |
| 16:03 |
|
particle |
headerizer isn't just for generated files |
| 16:03 |
|
pmichaud |
(unneeded register copy) I'm working on that right now, in fact. :-) |
| 16:05 |
|
pmichaud |
but first it's time for errands, lunch. |
| 16:05 |
|
pmichaud |
bbiaw |
| 16:06 |
|
Coke |
bbiaw? |
| 16:06 |
|
Coke |
(I know, just seeing if purl had something silly for me.) |
| 16:08 |
|
pmichaud |
purl, bbiaw is something silly for Coke. |
| 16:08 |
|
purl |
OK, pmichaud. |
| 16:11 |
|
* Coke |
wonders if the new RT has a GUI more like hiveminder. |
| 16:11 |
|
Coke |
suspects that would be much faster. |
| 16:13 |
|
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silug joined #parrot |
| 16:13 |
|
particle |
coke: i suspect it will, but right now it's cli-only |
| 16:16 |
|
Infinoid |
hmm! looks like http://sourceforge.net/projects/gocache/ supports MSVC. |
| 16:17 |
|
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iblechbot joined #parrot |
| 16:20 |
|
particle |
i wonder if we can get gocache to support imcc! |
| 16:21 |
|
Infinoid |
c2str and pmc2c are the biggest components of my build time, these days, because ccache takes care of the rest. I wouldn't mind caching those, too. |
| 16:22 |
|
* particle |
would love to have core_ops and core_ops_switch cached |
| 16:25 |
|
particle |
it may support msvc, but it looks like you need cygwin to build :( |
| 16:32 |
|
cognominal |
that always freaks me out on my mac when I forgot to run the rakudo shell and I type "say ..." |
| 16:38 |
|
tewk |
c99: unable to parse regex at line 498, near "{\n [L]?" |
| 16:39 |
|
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allison joined #parrot |
| 16:39 |
|
tewk |
I'm sure its bit rot, |
| 16:41 |
|
nopaste |
"tewk" at 155.97.237.62 pasted "c99 grammar bit rot, Ideas?" (6 lines) at http://nopaste.snit.ch/12957 |
| 16:43 |
|
spinclad |
no, purl, #parrotsketch is the channel where the core parrot committers report weekly status, moderated by our project manager, coke, every Tuesday at 18:30 UTC |
| 16:43 |
|
purl |
okay, spinclad. |
| 16:44 |
|
spinclad |
# cause if i only know it's 18:30 UTC *or* Tuesday, that doesn't do me much good |
| 16:45 |
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cxreg left #parrot |
| 16:49 |
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| 16:51 |
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ruoso joined #parrot |
| 17:02 |
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AndyA_ joined #parrot |
| 17:08 |
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Zaba joined #parrot |
| 17:19 |
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dalek joined #parrot |
| 17:19 |
|
* diakopter |
growls at dalek (well, feather really) |
| 17:20 |
|
Juerd |
diakopter: What's wrong? |
| 17:20 |
|
purl |
somebody said wrong was http://laughingsquid.com/pink-[…]floyd-polka-band/ or http://the-isb.blogspot.com/20[…]defenders-of.html |
| 17:21 |
|
pmichaud |
twek: (c99) <string_literal: "> needs to be <string_literal: '"'> |
| 17:22 |
|
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allison joined #parrot |
| 17:22 |
|
tewk |
pmichaud: thanks I just figured that out. |
| 17:27 |
|
NotFound |
By the way, is there some easy way to make case-insentive reserved words? |
| 17:28 |
|
NotFound |
I'm working on a toy pascal. |
| 17:28 |
|
particle |
you mean, inside a grammar? |
| 17:28 |
|
NotFound |
Yes. |
| 17:28 |
|
particle |
try <:i[begin]> |
| 17:28 |
|
pmichaud |
[:i ThIs|IS|case-INSenSITIVE] |
| 17:29 |
|
|
peepsalot joined #parrot |
| 17:29 |
|
pmichaud |
pge doesn't know <:i ...> |
| 17:29 |
|
particle |
oops <[:i begin> |
| 17:29 |
|
pmichaud |
no < |
| 17:29 |
|
particle |
grr |
| 17:29 |
|
pmichaud |
[:i begin] |
| 17:30 |
|
|
ambs joined #parrot |
| 17:30 |
|
diakopter |
well, perl on feather was upgraded to 5.10.0 which broke both SVN::Web (http://www.parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision) and dalek... attempting to repair. |
| 17:30 |
|
ambs |
(perl 5.10)++ |
| 17:30 |
|
ambs |
:D |
| 17:35 |
|
moritz |
the upgrade was my doing; I wanted to upgrade openssl which debian had severly b0rked |
| 17:36 |
|
moritz |
and I wasn't too specific about what I wanted to see upgraded ;) |
| 17:36 |
|
Juerd |
Also, please stick to debian packages for perl modules whenever feasible. |
| 17:36 |
|
Juerd |
'cause those *were* properly upgraded. |
| 17:36 |
|
particle |
stable-only packages? |
| 17:36 |
|
Juerd |
sid |
| 17:36 |
|
Juerd |
feather runs sid/unstable |
| 17:37 |
|
particle |
ah |
| 17:37 |
|
Juerd |
'cause stable is too old for our uses |
| 17:37 |
|
particle |
that was my concern |
| 17:37 |
|
Juerd |
In fact, I run sid/unstable on most of my production machines too. |
| 17:39 |
|
ambs |
Slackware++ |
| 17:39 |
|
* ambs |
coughs |
| 17:40 |
|
Juerd |
Hm, I think I'd have commited suicide if I had tried to run feather on slackware. |
| 17:40 |
|
ambs |
LOL |
| 17:40 |
|
ambs |
:D |
| 17:40 |
|
Juerd |
Feather has its weird issues because of the uncoordinated multiple root access, but I think Debian has saved my butt quite a few times with that :) |
| 17:41 |
|
ambs |
Juerd, er, multiple root access would be crazy with slack :) |
| 17:41 |
|
ambs |
yeah |
| 17:41 |
|
Juerd |
It's crazy on any system. |
| 17:41 |
|
ambs |
Coke, do not forget to answer my email O:-) |
| 17:41 |
|
Juerd |
The problem is not really that there are multiple people with root access, the problem is that they lack the tuits to document and discuss the changes :) |
| 17:41 |
|
Juerd |
So we don't know what the other guy did. |
| 17:42 |
|
ambs |
Juerd, yeah, probably I am crazy as well :) |
| 17:42 |
|
Juerd |
Multiply this with a box with lots of experimental and beta software users, and you have feather :) |
| 17:42 |
|
* particle |
taps coke with the +5 wand of responsibility |
| 17:48 |
|
Coke |
ambs: did you tell us when we had to reply by? |
| 17:48 |
|
Coke |
aha! no. =-) |
| 17:49 |
|
Coke |
How many votes are you waiting for? |
| 17:49 |
|
ambs |
Coke, 5 :) |
| 17:49 |
|
ambs |
erm, 4 |
| 17:49 |
|
ambs |
yup, 4 |
| 17:50 |
|
ambs |
Coke, no hurry. Just pressing you a litle :) |
| 17:51 |
|
NotFound |
I attended some time ago to a unix administration course: about 20 boys as root in the same machine. |
| 17:51 |
|
ambs |
how much time did it take for a 'nohup rm -fr / &' ? |
| 17:51 |
|
Infinoid |
beware the kid in the back of the class, reading BOFH |
| 17:53 |
|
NotFound |
ambs: actually it was worse. A guy managed to enter other machine, not intended for the course, and broke it. |
| 17:53 |
|
ambs |
:-S |
| 17:54 |
|
NotFound |
It makes something like: while true ; do mkdir test ; cd test ; done |
| 17:54 |
|
ambs |
heh |
| 17:54 |
|
particle |
looks like ambs is itching to spend someone else's money |
| 17:54 |
|
ambs |
particle, basically :D |
| 17:55 |
|
ambs |
NotFound, I do not want to test it, but what is the usual result for that? |
| 17:55 |
|
NotFound |
Or at least the rumour was something like that, don't know for secure. |
| 17:55 |
|
ambs |
k |
| 17:55 |
|
NotFound |
ambs: in a modern shell, string space por $PWD exhausted. |
| 17:56 |
|
ambs |
then, probably not too bad |
| 17:56 |
|
NotFound |
In an older, file system full and fsck fucked up, I think. |
| 17:59 |
|
diakopter |
well, when (and if) dalek does return fully, there will likely be a large backlog of svn commit and wiki changelog messages to spool through |
| 18:11 |
|
|
chromatic joined #parrot |
| 18:13 |
|
Coke |
do we need that? |
| 18:18 |
|
* pmichaud |
starts preparing his #parrotsketch report. |
| 18:19 |
|
NotFound |
pmichaud: with slides? |
| 18:21 |
|
Coke |
PS in 9. |
| 18:30 |
|
pmichaud |
NotFound: probably could use slides for some of this. :-) |
| 18:31 |
|
Eevee |
speaking of slides. will perl 6/parrot have any bigger presence at yapc::na this year than last year? |
| 18:31 |
|
Coke |
... an entire room for an entire day was not big enough? |
| 18:31 |
|
chromatic |
Smaller I think; Coke's dieting. |
| 18:31 |
|
Coke |
chromatic: bite me and the horse I rode in on. |
| 18:31 |
|
Eevee |
there was an entire day? maybe I missed this |
| 18:32 |
|
chromatic |
But I have a bigger ego, so it might be constant! |
| 18:32 |
|
Eevee |
I only remember a session somewhere and a keynote. $job might have been shuffling me around to other things though |
| 18:32 |
|
* Coke |
is down 9.5 # this first week. |
| 18:32 |
|
pmichaud |
at yapc::na the parrot track had the main auditorium for an entire day |
| 18:33 |
|
ambs |
just one parrot talk at PPW :( |
| 18:33 |
|
ambs |
but then, few talks at PPW :( |
| 18:33 |
|
particle |
eevee there will be a parrot/rakudo hackathon before yapc::na, a full day of talks, a parrot/rakudo workshop, and a general hackathon |
| 18:35 |
|
Eevee |
before == sunday? |
| 18:36 |
|
chromatic |
Saturday and Sunday. |
| 18:36 |
|
Coke |
and maybe friday. |
| 18:36 |
|
Coke |
depending on when I get in, how low my blood sugar is, etc. |
| 18:37 |
|
pmichaud |
I arrive Saturday noon. |
| 18:37 |
|
particle |
i arrive friday night |
| 18:37 |
|
Eevee |
nice. alas I'm getting in sunday afternoon sometime |
| 18:38 |
|
pmichaud |
come by anyway -- we may still be there. |
| 18:38 |
|
pmichaud |
I mean, what else will there be to do on a sunday night? |
| 18:38 |
|
pmichaud |
although maybe I'll bring the Wii. :-) |
| 18:41 |
|
* jhorwitz |
arrives sunday afternoon |
| 18:41 |
|
ambs |
WiiStep is what we (me and Coke) needs |
| 18:41 |
|
|
desertmax joined #parrot |
| 18:42 |
|
Coke |
bah, I already lost 9.5 pounds in 7 days with only 60m of barely moving. |
| 18:42 |
|
nopaste |
"pmichaud" at 76.183.97.54 pasted "new PCT code generation in pctcoerce branch" (44 lines) at http://nopaste.snit.ch/12958 |
| 18:42 |
|
ambs |
purl, convert 9.5 pounds to Kg |
| 18:42 |
|
purl |
I don't know how to convert 9.5 pounds to Kg. |
| 18:42 |
|
* ambs |
uses google |
| 18:42 |
|
ambs |
4.3kg, k |
| 18:43 |
|
Eevee |
pmichaud: hm, brawl or rakudo, brawl or rakudo.. |
| 18:44 |
|
chromatic |
Hm, that's 9 lines of code versus 14. Big improvement. |
| 18:45 |
|
pmichaud |
and we avoid creating lots of unnecessary PMCs |
| 18:46 |
|
pmichaud |
i.e., we no longer create PMCs for the second 'hello' constant or the return value |
| 18:46 |
|
chromatic |
That'll speed things up. |
| 18:47 |
|
pmichaud |
well, it's still not the "slow" part of the system (parsing is still slow), but it does give us some more flexibility and conciseness in code generation. |
| 18:48 |
|
chromatic |
You'd be surprised how cutting down the number of allocations speeds things up in Parrot. |
| 18:48 |
|
Coke |
elbh. |
| 18:48 |
|
Coke |
(and send?) |
| 18:49 |
|
NotFound |
chromatic: have you seen my comment on #50894? |
| 18:50 |
|
chromatic |
Yes. |
| 18:50 |
|
chromatic |
I'm not sure always creating that segment is the answer, but it's a reasonable idea. |
| 18:51 |
|
NotFound |
Maybe a different option for creating and/or loading debug segment is the correct solution. |
| 18:52 |
|
chromatic |
Or checking that there *is* a debug segment. |
| 18:53 |
|
NotFound |
Actually I don't know if the current problem is creating, loading, or both. |
| 18:53 |
|
NotFound |
On loading, loks like the segment is not created unless there is one in the pbc. |
| 18:54 |
|
chromatic |
Makes sense. |
| 18:55 |
|
|
lichtkind joined #parrot |
| 18:55 |
|
NotFound |
But loading and compiling-running seems to use different ways. |
| 18:56 |
|
chromatic |
Yeah, that's true. |
| 18:59 |
|
chromatic |
pmichaud, when do you think your coercion branch will land? |
| 18:59 |
|
pmichaud |
I don't know yet. Maybe a day or so? |
| 18:59 |
|
ambs |
dinner & |
| 19:00 |
|
pmichaud |
I think I've got the difficult stuff done... but I don't know if there's some case I haven't considered that is just waiting to bite me |
| 19:00 |
|
NotFound |
A temprary solution can be to always generate the debug info if compiling and running, but I think that information is not available in e_pbc_emit |
| 19:01 |
|
chromatic |
I'd like to see it before the next release, but that's a nice-to-have, not a require. |
| 19:02 |
|
pmichaud |
oh, I think it'll be before the release. It doesn't really impact any other systems. |
| 19:02 |
|
pmichaud |
so I can fold it in without having to update a bunch of translators. Unlike the PGE grammar syntax changes. :-) |
| 19:02 |
|
chromatic |
Excellent. |
| 19:04 |
|
lichtkind |
chromatic: hello |
| 19:04 |
|
chromatic |
pong |
| 19:05 |
|
|
gryphon joined #parrot |
| 19:05 |
|
lichtkind |
chromatic: glad i see you wanted catch you since .... its always better than mail |
| 19:07 |
|
chromatic |
What can I do for you? |
| 19:08 |
|
lichtkind |
chromatic: you do a lot with you patiente :) i wanted just see whats your chedule |
| 19:09 |
|
chromatic |
I'm always here for #parrotsketch, at 18:30 UTC on Tuesdays. |
| 19:09 |
|
chromatic |
Other than that, I try to backlog if someone needs me. |
| 19:10 |
|
lichtkind |
chromatic: may i know how you gather perl.com articles ? |
| 19:12 |
|
chromatic |
Usually someone sends me an idea or outline and I review it, make any suggestions, and then we work on writing, editing, and publishing. |
| 19:15 |
|
lichtkind |
chromatic: its really astonishing to see how much you handle at once, |
| 19:16 |
|
Coke |
lichtkind: yah, but you should see his apartment! Oy! |
| 19:16 |
|
diakopter |
hm, dalek is 48 revisions behind. that could take a while to spew... |
| 19:16 |
|
pmichaud |
...apartment? |
| 19:16 |
|
Coke |
... it's a mess? |
| 19:17 |
|
lichtkind |
Coke: how you know? :) |
| 19:17 |
|
* Coke |
will try harder next time. |
| 19:17 |
|
lichtkind |
who is dalek? a bot? |
| 19:17 |
|
Coke |
yes |
| 19:17 |
|
Coke |
dalek? |
| 19:17 |
|
purl |
dalek is probably dha's distributed perl community badger badger badger attack or http://ourworld.compuserve.com[…]ters/dalek_fr.htm or 'Dalek' for the language, and 'dalek' for the program or http://www.daleklinks.co.uk/ or a Dr Who baddie or {see: dalek meme} or at http://www.deviantart.com/deviation/20016573/ or http://www.asciiartfarts.com/20020615.html or http://xrl.us/2doh |
| 19:17 |
|
chromatic |
House, and I have a half-finished arcade cabinet downstairs. |
| 19:17 |
|
pmichaud |
...still half-finished? ;-) |
| 19:17 |
|
Coke |
that's not the one from 1987, is it? |
| 19:17 |
|
pmichaud |
(and the arcade cabinet is tres cool) |
| 19:18 |
|
chromatic |
I don't have a table saw, so I'm relying on my father to cut the pieces for me. |
| 19:18 |
|
particle |
i have a table saw, next time you're here |
| 19:19 |
|
particle |
or maybe i'll take it on the train to pdx for oscon :) |
| 19:19 |
|
particle |
bbl & |
| 19:22 |
|
lichtkind |
chromatic: sometimes im wondering that you didnt have written to me piss of |
| 19:23 |
|
* Coke |
tries to parse that. |
| 19:25 |
|
chromatic |
I usually go through article proposals once every couple of weeks in a batch. |
| 19:25 |
|
|
Ivatar joined #parrot |
| 19:25 |
|
lichtkind |
chromatic: are they a lot? |
| 19:27 |
|
chromatic |
I have five or six to look at today. |
| 19:27 |
|
|
wknight8111 joined #parrot |
| 19:28 |
|
diakopter |
brace yourselves |
| 19:29 |
|
|
dalek joined #parrot |
| 19:31 |
|
diakopter |
or not |
| 19:31 |
|
tewk |
Is there a chomp opcode? |
| 19:31 |
|
tewk |
I only found chopn |
| 19:32 |
|
rdice |
Hi folks... anyone know if any core p6 people are at YAPC::RU this week? |
| 19:32 |
|
pmichaud |
I don't know of any, no. |
| 19:32 |
|
|
askie joined #parrot |
| 19:33 |
|
NotFound |
chromatic: a new flag in --imcc-debug meaning 'always create debug info' can be a solution? |
| 19:33 |
|
lichtkind |
chromatic: how much time you spend for summer of code so far? |
| 19:34 |
|
pmichaud |
looks like there's a talk about rakudo at yapc::ru, though. |
| 19:35 |
|
Coke |
who's giving it? |
| 19:35 |
|
pmichaud |
http://event.perlrussia.ru/yr2008/talk/1182 |
| 19:35 |
|
dalek |
r27481 | allison++ | pdd25cx: |
| 19:35 |
|
dalek |
: [pdd25cx] Bringing the pdd25cx branch up-to-date with trunk r27480. |
| 19:35 |
|
dalek |
diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn/pa[…]evision?rev=27481 |
| 19:35 |
|
pmichaud |
(Andrew Shitov) |
| 19:35 |
|
chromatic |
NotFound, I'm not convinced. If someone forgets that flag, won't we still have the potential crash? |
| 19:35 |
|
chromatic |
lichtkind, only a few hours. |
| 19:36 |
|
|
ambs joined #parrot |
| 19:36 |
|
Coke |
wow. google's translate on the fly rocks. |
| 19:36 |
|
NotFound |
chromatic: for the item about showing line info, I mean. |
| 19:36 |
|
Coke |
More information - Rapporteur on the site: |
| 19:36 |
|
Coke |
* ......: http://rakudo.org/ Report: http://rakudo.org/ |
| 19:36 |
|
Coke |
....... . ..., ... ..... Rakudo, . ...... ... .... ..... ...... Brief that such Rakudo, and why you need to know about him. |
| 19:36 |
|
pmichaud |
grrrrr |
| 19:37 |
|
Coke |
needs a little work, but the GUI is nice. looks like it's a short report. |
| 19:37 |
|
Coke |
pmichaud: ? |
| 19:37 |
|
pmichaud |
looks like register coercion is going to need to distinguish between integer constants and float constants |
| 19:37 |
|
pmichaud |
I was hoping to not have to do that. |
| 19:37 |
|
pmichaud |
$I0 = iseq $N0, 3 # error. |
| 19:40 |
|
pmichaud |
afk # pick up kids from school |
| 19:41 |
|
diakopter |
SVN::Web (the diff links) and dalek just needed some new debian packages and a little handholding to work with 5.10 and the new mod_perl. here's hoping they stay stable for a while. |
| 19:46 |
|
lichtkind |
chromatic: i currently do many things are aoverlap a lot, its mostly to make the dream of chocolate perl come true |
| 19:51 |
|
dalek |
r27482 | tewk++ | trunk: |
| 19:51 |
|
dalek |
: RT#53966 gmtime & localtime returns wrong string length |
| 19:51 |
|
dalek |
: asctime always returns a \n terminated 25 character string even on WIN32 |
| 19:51 |
|
dalek |
: 26 includes the \0 which shouldn't be passed on to string_from_cstring |
| 19:51 |
|
dalek |
: |
| 19:51 |
|
dalek |
: original patch from Ivan B. Serezhkin |
| 19:51 |
|
dalek |
diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn/pa[…]evision?rev=27482 |
| 19:53 |
|
ambs |
dalek is back! |
| 19:55 |
|
lichtkind |
dalek where the doctor? |
| 19:56 |
|
lichtkind |
dalek: who is the superior being ? |
| 19:56 |
|
lichtkind |
its not a real dalek :) |
| 19:59 |
|
dalek |
r27483 | allison++ | pdd25cx: |
| 19:59 |
|
dalek |
: [pdd25cx] Deleting two now unused functions: do_str_exception and do_pmc_exception. |
| 19:59 |
|
dalek |
diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn/pa[…]evision?rev=27483 |
| 20:02 |
|
NotFound |
chromatic: I have tried a quick hack for #50894 by using --imcc-debug=0200 and looks like an acceptable temporary solution. |
| 20:03 |
|
NotFound |
Uh, sorry, --parrot-debug |
| 20:05 |
|
Tene |
my isp kicked me offline before #ps |
| 20:06 |
|
Tene |
still offline, but running into a pct problem |
| 20:09 |
|
NotFound |
Now with --imcc-debug |
| 20:11 |
|
Tene |
I'm trying to add some classes to cardinal, and whenever I add a :returns('CardinalString') to the PAST::Val, the emitted pir doesn't have any quotes around the string |
| 20:11 |
|
Tene |
$P11 = foo |
| 20:11 |
|
pmichaud |
tene: you need the following: |
| 20:12 |
|
pmichaud |
%P0 = get_hll_global ['PAST::Compiler'], '%valflags' |
| 20:12 |
|
pmichaud |
$P0['CardinalString'] = 'e' |
| 20:12 |
|
pmichaud |
that tells PAST that it needs to quote+escape the string value when using it in PIR |
| 20:13 |
|
|
barney joined #parrot |
| 20:13 |
|
Tene |
pmichaud: thank you. |
| 20:17 |
|
chromatic |
Ready to go faster, pmichaud? |
| 20:17 |
|
pmichaud |
sure! |
| 20:18 |
|
* pmichaud |
prepares for a power-up mushroom. |
| 20:18 |
|
chromatic |
r27484 |
| 20:18 |
|
chromatic |
I went from 44 seconds in the slow part of Rakudo building to 28. |
| 20:18 |
|
dalek |
r27484 | chromatic++ | trunk: |
| 20:18 |
|
dalek |
: [GC] Skipped DOD runs from mem_allocate() if there have been no successful |
| 20:18 |
|
dalek |
: allocations since the last DOD run. We'll get the same answer back, so don't |
| 20:18 |
|
dalek |
: waste CPU cycles trying to find the same amount of free memory. |
| 20:18 |
|
dalek |
: This provides a 17.59% performance improvement in a different Rakudo-building |
| 20:18 |
|
dalek |
: benchmark. |
| 20:18 |
|
dalek |
diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn/pa[…]evision?rev=27484 |
| 20:19 |
|
chromatic |
Those aren't scientific numbers, but it'll take me a while longer to get accurate Callgrind findings. |
| 20:19 |
|
pmichaud |
niiiiiiice |
| 20:19 |
|
ambs |
All tests successful @ linux |
| 20:19 |
|
chromatic |
The 17.59% is from the src/gen_grammar.pir step. |
| 20:19 |
|
moritz |
not scientific but still with four digits ;) |
| 20:20 |
|
chromatic |
That part *is* scientific. |
| 20:20 |
|
moritz |
;) |
| 20:20 |
|
Coke |
I thought it was magical? |
| 20:20 |
|
Coke |
chromatic++ |
| 20:20 |
|
* Coke |
will have to check that patch to make sure chromatic didn't use a global! |
| 20:21 |
|
NotFound |
chromatic: patch sended to #50894 |
| 20:21 |
|
chromatic |
It only uses tuning information we already collected. |
| 20:22 |
|
chromatic |
Hmm, continuation runloop jumping problems in Pheme. |
| 20:23 |
|
dalek |
r27485 | chromatic++ | trunk: |
| 20:23 |
|
dalek |
: [Pheme] Added quotes to a PGE rule to make Pheme build again. |
| 20:23 |
|
dalek |
diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn/pa[…]evision?rev=27485 |
| 20:24 |
|
Coke |
(runloop) yay! |
| 20:24 |
|
Coke |
(it's not just tcl) |
| 20:26 |
|
chromatic |
My guess is that it's a PGE change. |
| 20:26 |
|
pmichaud |
PGE causes an runloop jump? that's new. |
| 20:26 |
|
pmichaud |
PCT has done that (because of closures and :init/:load subs) |
| 20:26 |
|
chromatic |
Could be PCT. |
| 20:27 |
|
pmichaud |
if you're not able to track it down, file a ticket and I'll look. |
| 20:27 |
|
chromatic |
I haven't touched anything in Pheme in a couple of weeks, so it's most likely one of the compiler tools somewhere. |
| 20:27 |
|
chromatic |
I'll do a bisect in a bit. |
| 20:27 |
|
pmichaud |
(feel free to assign me the ticket) |
| 20:28 |
|
Coke |
pmichaud: can you point me at the recent PGE changes so I can fix tcl? |
| 20:28 |
|
* Coke |
checks the list. |
| 20:28 |
|
pmichaud |
basically there are two |
| 20:29 |
|
pmichaud |
the one that causes failures is <xyz: foo> needs to be <xyz: 'foo'> |
| 20:29 |
|
Coke |
danke. |
| 20:29 |
|
pmichaud |
the other change is that <?xyz> (non-capturing subrule) needs to be <.xyz> instead |
| 20:29 |
|
pmichaud |
but the <?xyz> form still works for now |
| 20:29 |
|
pmichaud |
<xyz: foo> works as long as foo doesn't start with an unmatched quote |
| 20:30 |
|
pmichaud |
i.e., <something: '> or <something: "> will break. |
| 20:31 |
|
Coke |
what about <!before:\s> ? |
| 20:31 |
|
Coke |
<!before: "\s"> ? |
| 20:31 |
|
Coke |
yup. |
| 20:31 |
|
Coke |
(well, it compiles, anyway.) |
| 20:33 |
|
pmichaud |
oh |
| 20:34 |
|
pmichaud |
that should probably be <!before \s> (no colon) |
| 20:34 |
|
chromatic |
token ws { [ [ ';' \N+ ]? \s+ ]* } ? |
| 20:36 |
|
pmichaud |
is that failing somehow? |
| 20:36 |
|
Coke |
pmichaud: <xyz: foo> works, but does <xyz: foo bar baz> ? |
| 20:37 |
|
pmichaud |
Coke: it means <xyz: 'foo bar baz'> |
| 20:37 |
|
chromatic |
No parse fail, just wondering if it's correct. |
| 20:37 |
|
|
Theory joined #parrot |
| 20:37 |
|
Coke |
ok. |
| 20:37 |
|
chromatic |
Hmm, at least a 22.22% speedup on the slow Rakudo benchmark. |
| 20:37 |
|
pmichaud |
The <xyz: foo bar baz> syntax is deprecated |
| 20:38 |
|
pmichaud |
I just left it for combatibility until the next release. |
| 20:38 |
|
Coke |
doh. guess I should have left in my edits then. |
| 20:41 |
|
|
mj41 joined #parrot |
| 20:41 |
|
tewk |
pmichaud: Its been a while since I've used PGE, Is there any way to trace PGE, I know its not matching I just don't know why? |
| 20:41 |
|
pmichaud |
depends on what you mean by "trace" |
| 20:41 |
|
pmichaud |
you can put <panic: ... > in various rules to stop at given points |
| 20:42 |
|
tewk |
I guess I'd like to see rule failure and how much was parsed when the rule failed. |
| 20:42 |
|
pmichaud |
which rule? :-) |
| 20:43 |
|
dalek |
r27486 | coke++ | trunk: |
| 20:43 |
|
dalek |
: [tcl] |
| 20:43 |
|
dalek |
: Keep up with recent PGE/S05 updates |
| 20:43 |
|
dalek |
diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn/pa[…]evision?rev=27486 |
| 20:43 |
|
pmichaud |
rule failure is "normal" |
| 20:43 |
|
pmichaud |
so it's not something easily traced. |
| 20:44 |
|
pmichaud |
(at least, not automatically) |
| 20:47 |
|
pmichaud |
we could have PGE generate "entering rule 'foo' at nnn", "passing rule 'foo' at nnn", "failing rule 'foo' at nnn" debug messages, I suppose. |
| 20:47 |
|
pmichaud |
there would be a ton of output, though. |
| 20:50 |
|
tewk |
That would be nice. I hacked something like that ages ago. Don' |
| 20:50 |
|
tewk |
t have it now. |
| 20:50 |
|
pmichaud |
what rule are you wanting to trace? |
| 20:52 |
|
tewk |
Checking in a fix now so you can look at it. |
| 20:55 |
|
dalek |
r27487 | tewk++ | trunk: |
| 20:55 |
|
dalek |
: [c99] Fixed tab in makefile |
| 20:55 |
|
dalek |
diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn/pa[…]evision?rev=27487 |
| 20:55 |
|
tewk |
svn up; cd languages/c99/src/cpp; make; |
| 20:56 |
|
tewk |
../../../../parrot cpp.pbc --target=parse t/cpp_0.t |
| 21:00 |
|
pmichaud |
you can rewrite the control_line rule to give better output |
| 21:00 |
|
pmichaud |
but note that in |
| 21:00 |
|
pmichaud |
| '#' 'define' <identifier> <lparen> <identifier_list>? ')' <replacement_list> <newline> |
| 21:00 |
|
pmichaud |
<newline> can never match. |
| 21:01 |
|
tewk |
ah |
| 21:07 |
|
tewk |
How do I match \n? |
| 21:07 |
|
pmichaud |
well, the problem is that the space prior to <newline> will eat it up |
| 21:08 |
|
pmichaud |
I don't have a good answer. Parsing c99 seems like it would require a mix of line-oriented and non-line oriented parsing |
| 21:08 |
|
pmichaud |
might need to write the rule as |
| 21:08 |
|
pmichaud |
as token with |
| 21:09 |
|
pmichaud |
| '#' \h* 'define' \h* <identifier> \h* <lparen> ... etc. |
| 21:09 |
|
pmichaud |
but even then we have to make sure that the <replacement_list> subrule doesn't eat up trailing whitespace |
| 21:09 |
|
NotFound |
pmichaud: the usual way is to preprocess first. |
| 21:10 |
|
pmichaud |
NotFound: yes. |
| 21:11 |
|
tewk |
Well src/cpp is the cpp pulled out. I'm trying to just write the cpp. |
| 21:11 |
|
pmichaud |
ahhh |
| 21:11 |
|
pmichaud |
then you should change the default <.ws> token to not include newlines |
| 21:11 |
|
pmichaud |
token ws { \h* } # might be a good start |
| 21:11 |
|
chromatic |
Heh, it was 27.79%. Nice. |
| 21:11 |
|
pmichaud |
chromatic++ |
| 21:12 |
|
pmichaud |
afk # break |
| 21:13 |
|
tewk |
pmichaud++ makes sense, I wouldn't have realized on my own that the \n were getting eaten. |
| 21:30 |
|
|
donaldh joined #parrot |
| 21:31 |
|
Coke |
NOM NOM |
| 21:31 |
|
* Coke |
wonders if tcl is any faster. |
| 21:31 |
|
* Coke |
will check tomorrow. nite, folks. |
| 21:33 |
|
chromatic |
Tcl crashes faster with parse errors. |
| 21:34 |
|
lichtkind |
:) |
| 21:34 |
|
Eevee |
but it IS faster |
| 21:35 |
|
chromatic |
I guess r27486 might be good for Tcl. Perhaps I should update. |
| 21:35 |
|
|
askie joined #parrot |
| 21:37 |
|
donaldh |
I have a Rakudo question. How do I access all those nice PIR library functions from perl6 ? |
| 21:38 |
|
chromatic |
Hm, Tcl's test suite takes 3 minutes for me. That seems faster. |
| 21:38 |
|
* moritz |
measures pre- and post r27486 performance, just for fun ;) |
| 21:39 |
|
chromatic |
pre-r27486 should be pretty fast: parsefail. |
| 21:40 |
|
chromatic |
r27484 is the important one. |
| 21:40 |
|
chromatic |
donaldh, which PIR library functions would you like to use? |
| 21:42 |
|
donaldh |
Well, I was looking at postgres. In fact I was considering learning how to use the NCI for Sqlite |
| 21:46 |
|
chromatic |
There's no 'use' support in Rakudo yet, but it's on the priority list. |
| 21:46 |
|
|
Juerd joined #parrot |
| 21:47 |
|
donaldh |
ah, I wondered. I took a look at the use implementation, but it is hard coded to .pm |
| 21:49 |
|
donaldh |
Is that non-trivial to extend? |
| 21:50 |
|
chromatic |
Depends on your definition of trivial. |
| 21:50 |
|
chromatic |
I suspect the non-trivial part is getting namespacing correct. |
| 21:50 |
|
donaldh |
heh |
| 21:51 |
|
|
Zaba_ joined #parrot |
| 21:52 |
|
donaldh |
I suspect that understanding what is meant by correct namespacing might be the non-trivial part for me. |
| 21:55 |
|
chromatic |
pmichaud should be back in a while. Either he or Jonathan will know what Rakudo needs for this. |
| 21:56 |
|
donaldh |
Is the goal to allow any language to 'use' libraries from other languages hosted on parrot? |
| 21:56 |
|
donaldh |
Or is the goal less ambitious? |
| 21:57 |
|
chromatic |
That's the goal. |
| 21:57 |
|
donaldh |
so Rakudo's use should really be implemented in parrot? |
| 21:58 |
|
donaldh |
And automagically select the correct compiler? |
| 21:58 |
|
moritz |
it's not that easy, because different languages have different ideas about namespaces (or at least I think) |
| 21:58 |
|
pmichaud |
well, Parrot takes that into account (supposedly) |
| 21:59 |
|
pmichaud |
the real issue at the moment is that we don't have export/import well defined yet |
| 22:00 |
|
pmichaud |
so even if we load a library, we need a (perl 6 compatible) way to get to the defined classes and objects |
| 22:00 |
|
pmichaud |
i.e., to import them into Perl 6's namespace |
| 22:00 |
|
donaldh |
to make it look more Perl 6 ish? |
| 22:01 |
|
pmichaud |
well, that's really the only mechanism we have for accessing them at the moment |
| 22:03 |
|
donaldh |
This has helped my understanding considerably. |
| 22:04 |
|
pmichaud |
we can access subroutines in other libraries okay |
| 22:04 |
|
pmichaud |
but what we really need are protoobjects so that we can access the classes/objects defined by the libraries |
| 22:05 |
|
pmichaud |
I had been toying with the notion of having rakudo automatically create protoobjects if it's given something that looks like a class name and there's a corresponding Parrot class |
| 22:05 |
|
donaldh |
Is it just Rakudo that has a notion of protoobjects? |
| 22:06 |
|
pmichaud |
no, that's Perl 6. |
| 22:06 |
|
pmichaud |
(synopsis 12) |
| 22:06 |
|
pmichaud |
my $x = Dog.new(); # Dog is a protoobject |
| 22:06 |
|
donaldh |
Sorry, Perl 6. (I'll get the nomenclature eventually) |
| 22:06 |
|
pmichaud |
no problem. :-) |
| 22:07 |
|
pmichaud |
so, for example, even though we could probably come up with a mechanism to load, say, the SDL library -- we still need a way to create protoobjects for its classes. |
| 22:07 |
|
moritz |
donaldh: it's a common feature in many languages, for example Javascript's OO is protoobject based |
| 22:08 |
|
donaldh |
Yes, I'm familiar with protoobjects. I was just not sure if it was Perl 6 specific or parrot centric? Forgive me if I'm misusing terminology. |
| 22:08 |
|
pmichaud |
Perl 6, definitely. Parrot doesn't have a notion of protoobjects (except for the ones we create to get Perl 6 stuff to work :-) |
| 22:10 |
|
donaldh |
Thanks. The learning curve isn't as steep as it looked this morning. I actually picked up a surprising amount correctly. |
| 22:11 |
|
Eevee |
we definitely need a glossary; this must sound so convoluted to people who have only used simple traditional OO |
| 22:12 |
|
donaldh |
:D |
| 22:12 |
|
moritz |
http://www.perlfoundation.org/[…]_terms_and_jargon |
| 22:12 |
|
shorten |
moritz's url is at http://xrl.us/bfee5 |
| 22:12 |
|
Eevee |
better glossary then :P |
| 22:12 |
|
* Eevee |
edits with extreme prejudice |
| 22:14 |
|
* davidfetter |
hands Eevee a PT boat and a machete |
| 22:15 |
|
Eevee |
this edit button doesn't do anything |
| 22:15 |
|
donaldh |
Perhaps more than a glossary. Perhaps a diagram would help? |
| 22:16 |
|
moritz |
Eevee: do you have javascript enabled? |
| 22:16 |
|
davidfetter |
it does for me |
| 22:16 |
|
Eevee |
yes, although I'm not sure why a *link* (or basic site functionality) should ever require javascript |
| 22:16 |
|
Eevee |
nothing in error console |
| 22:17 |
|
davidfetter |
it's all part of web 2.0 :P |
| 22:17 |
|
Eevee |
great, debugging time |
| 22:17 |
|
Eevee |
screw web 2.0 |
| 22:17 |
|
donaldh |
davidfetter: you beat me to it. |
| 22:17 |
|
Eevee |
actually, wait, I will guess what this problem is ahead of time |
| 22:17 |
|
Eevee |
it's doing some really dumb user agent sniffing and, because my user agent is neither "MSIE6" nor "Firefox2", I get nothing |
| 22:18 |
|
davidfetter |
ducking felightful :P |
| 22:18 |
|
Eevee |
good lord I hate javascript |
| 22:18 |
|
Eevee |
(its use, not the language. language is cool) |
| 22:19 |
|
* davidfetter |
notes that the most fun browser plugin he has is viewsourcewith |
| 22:19 |
|
donaldh |
firebug for me. |
| 22:20 |
|
davidfetter |
i have to write stuff in textareas. without my favorite editor, doing so would be intensely painful |
| 22:21 |
|
donaldh |
Mmmm. Web two dot oh. Every application is now a textarea. |
| 22:21 |
|
davidfetter |
fortunately, i've got viewsourcewith and gvim to hit back :) |
| 22:21 |
|
Eevee |
from the source: // XXX Surely we could use plain HTML here |
| 22:22 |
|
Eevee |
surely! |
| 22:22 |
|
davidfetter |
"...and don't call me Shirley!" |
| 22:22 |
|
davidfetter |
the "advanced" button lets you edit the markup raw |
| 22:23 |
|
Eevee |
where? |
| 22:23 |
|
|
donaldh joined #parrot |
| 22:24 |
|
davidfetter |
ass-u-m'ing the editing page loads |
| 22:24 |
|
Eevee |
it doesn't |
| 22:24 |
|
davidfetter |
top left, there are 3 buttons, save, preview, cancel |
| 22:24 |
|
Eevee |
I am glad someone's decision to make everything as shiny as possible has rendered this wiki inoperable |
| 22:25 |
|
davidfetter |
just to the right of those are two links, simple and advanced |
| 22:25 |
|
davidfetter |
the advanced one lets you edit the markup in its source form |
| 22:25 |
|
moritz |
socialtext-- |
| 22:25 |
|
davidfetter |
yeah |
| 22:25 |
|
moritz |
it doesn't even render properly without javascript |
| 22:25 |
|
Eevee |
yeah, I noticed; tried disabling js in the hopes of a fallback |
| 22:26 |
|
Eevee |
(progressive enhancement)++ |
| 22:26 |
|
* donaldh |
installs viewsourcewith and bombs his irc |
| 22:27 |
|
donaldh |
soon all life will exist inside a maximized firefox window |
| 22:27 |
|
donaldh |
Does parrot run in Firefox yet? |
| 22:27 |
|
moritz |
you have to ask "does firefox run in parrot yet?" ;-) |
| 22:28 |
|
donaldh |
:) |
| 22:28 |
|
Eevee |
actually |
| 22:28 |
|
moritz |
you know, a significant part of FF's code base is javascript |
| 22:28 |
|
Eevee |
that's an interesting idea |
| 22:28 |
|
Eevee |
yeah |
| 22:28 |
|
Eevee |
build parrot into a browser, and you can run DOM code in whatever language you want |
| 22:28 |
|
donaldh |
:D |
| 22:29 |
|
moritz |
I'd love to have perl[56] on the client side |
| 22:29 |
|
Eevee |
downside being that it would be bytecode and the web tends to thrive more when source is readily available |
| 22:29 |
|
donaldh |
Catalyst::View::Perl6 |
| 22:29 |
|
moritz |
;) |
| 22:29 |
|
Eevee |
alright well |
| 22:29 |
|
pmichaud |
embedding parrot into firefox is definitely something I'm interested in. |
| 22:29 |
|
Eevee |
before I can edit this glossary |
| 22:29 |
|
pmichaud |
afk # dinner |
| 22:30 |
|
Eevee |
first I have to write a wiki that runs on rakudo and convince tpf to use it instead |
| 22:30 |
|
pmichaud |
I already have a wiki, but it's written in that "other language" |
| 22:30 |
|
donaldh |
Thanks guys. I might hack on Rakudo tomorrow. |
| 22:30 |
|
* donaldh |
goes to bed. |
| 22:30 |
|
* purl |
grabs the lube and follows donaldh |
| 22:32 |
|
Eevee |
surprise, doesn't work in Opera either |
| 22:32 |
|
|
donaldh left #parrot |
| 22:36 |
|
Eevee |
there we go, christ |
| 22:37 |
|
davidfetter |
1.0/3.2 |
| 22:37 |
|
purl |
0.3125 |
| 22:37 |
|
davidfetter |
hrm |
| 22:46 |
|
|
Zaba joined #parrot |
| 22:55 |
|
|
teknomunk joined #parrot |
| 23:08 |
|
PerlJam |
Eevee: writing anything in rakudo (or parrot) that is used in a production environment would be a good thing. |
| 23:08 |
|
Eevee |
I know, I was only half-kidding |
| 23:09 |
|
PerlJam |
There's too many of us half-kidding people. We need a few more all-serious people :) |
| 23:10 |
|
PerlJam |
wow. feather is fast. I just compiled parrot in the time it took to have that short conversation with Eevee |
| 23:10 |
|
Eevee |
I try to make a point of never being *entirely* serious |
| 23:10 |
|
Eevee |
haha, nice |
| 23:11 |
|
Eevee |
the main problem is that (afaik) there's no way to interface C from rakudo/parrot at the moment, so no way to use e.g. a database |
| 23:11 |
|
Eevee |
unless there's a system() in which case I could probably shell out to mysql or sqlite3 a lot, but that's terrible |
| 23:11 |
|
PerlJam |
NCI? |
| 23:11 |
|
purl |
NCI is Native Call Interface or the National Cancer Institute, a part of the NIH or national cancer institute |
| 23:11 |
|
chromatic |
You should be able to interface with C from Parrot through NCI. |
| 23:11 |
|
Eevee |
oh really |
| 23:11 |
|
Eevee |
I had not heard of this |
| 23:11 |
|
chromatic |
There are bindings for PostgreSQL, SDL, PCRE, and OpenGL. |
| 23:11 |
|
PerlJam |
it's nice |
| 23:12 |
|
PerlJam |
well, except when you need to access C structs, then NCI seems cumbersome. |
| 23:12 |
|
chromatic |
... enter Tewk. |
| 23:13 |
|
japhb |
It's got a few weaknesses, but one of my goals with the OpenGL stuff is shedding a little light on those dusty corners; without one or more bindings that collectively push the NCI system to its limits, we don't have the experience needed to iterate to a better design |
| 23:13 |
|
japhb |
... and I've already come across a few. :-) |
| 23:14 |
|
Eevee |
how hard is it to use NCI from rakudo? |
| 23:14 |
|
PerlJam |
few better designs or dusty corners? :) |
| 23:14 |
|
PerlJam |
Eevee: I don't think you can just yet. |
| 23:14 |
|
japhb |
PerlJam: more of the latter, but I think I've found at least one of the former. |
| 23:15 |
|
Eevee |
well, that would be a problem |
| 23:16 |
|
PerlJam |
I wish we could compile the call_list stuff at run time in a pack()-like fashion. If I knew more about things, I might even try to make that happen. |
| 23:16 |
|
tewk |
NCI direction - http://docs.google.com/Doc?id=dgbncnxx_9d2n6q2nq |
| 23:17 |
|
PerlJam |
tewk: did that get funded? |
| 23:17 |
|
|
cjfields joined #parrot |
| 23:17 |
|
PerlJam |
when do they make the call? |
| 23:18 |
|
chromatic |
Already accepted. |
| 23:18 |
|
Eevee |
awesome |
| 23:18 |
|
PerlJam |
awesome indeed! |
| 23:18 |
|
PerlJam |
tewk++ |
| 23:18 |
|
PerlJam |
chromatic: I assume you're the "mentor"? :) |
| 23:18 |
|
* Eevee |
adds to list of things that should probably be in the glossary |
| 23:19 |
|
pmichaud |
http://code.google.com/soc/2008/perl/about.html |
| 23:19 |
|
chromatic |
particle is the mentor. |
| 23:19 |
|
PerlJam |
ah. |
| 23:20 |
|
pmichaud |
also: http://code.google.com/soc/200[…]=D24D128FC3FD87F9 |
| 23:20 |
|
shorten |
pmichaud's url is at http://xrl.us/bkh93 |
| 23:21 |
|
tewk |
pmichaud: how would you do a /* */ comment in PGE |
| 23:21 |
|
tewk |
token multilinecomment { '/*' .*? '*/' } |
| 23:21 |
|
tewk |
token multilinecomment { '/*' .*? '*/' } |
| 23:22 |
|
pmichaud |
tewk: something like that ought to work, yes. |
| 23:22 |
|
pmichaud |
it's at least a good start. |
| 23:23 |
|
tewk |
Also rule pp_tokens { <preprocessing_token>+ } should pick up ws between <preprocessing_token>s right? |
| 23:23 |
|
pmichaud |
no |
| 23:23 |
|
PerlJam |
pm: do I remember right that you were going to incorporate larry's longest token matcher into PGE (or at least *a* LTM)? |
| 23:23 |
|
pmichaud |
for that use |
| 23:23 |
|
pmichaud |
rule pp_tokens { [ <preprocessing_token>]+ } |
| 23:23 |
|
pmichaud |
pj: ltm is my summer project. |
| 23:24 |
|
pmichaud |
I want to get rakudo just a little farther along and on its way, and then I'll go back an look at pge and ltm |
| 23:24 |
|
|
rafl joined #parrot |
| 23:24 |
|
pmichaud |
but yes, I'm hoping to have LTM as part of PGE by this summer. |
| 23:25 |
|
PerlJam |
Seems like that would allow rakudo's grammar to look significantly more like STD.pm than it does now. |
| 23:25 |
|
pmichaud |
as well as being significantly faster. |
| 23:25 |
|
japhb |
What's the status of source line number info in PBC files? |
| 23:25 |
|
chromatic |
/dev/entropy |
| 23:26 |
|
japhb |
frack |
| 23:26 |
|
chromatic |
Oh, I thought you said "source". Sorry. |
| 23:26 |
|
pmichaud |
japhb: haven't heard anything in the past couple of weeks. |
| 23:26 |
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pmichaud |
PCT may get a workaround soon, though. |
| 23:27 |
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pmichaud |
whee! NQP passes all tests with the new coercing version of PCT |
| 23:27 |
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japhb |
pmichaud: but the real problem is in IMCC? Or deeper? |
| 23:27 |
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pmichaud |
japhb: I don't really know. |
| 23:28 |
|
nopaste |
"japhb" at 76.191.190.8 pasted "dump-pbc: source/disassembly weaver" (61 lines) at http://nopaste.snit.ch/12960 |
| 23:29 |
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Eevee |
hm. this wiki could have a lot more.. things.. in it. |
| 23:29 |
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cjfields_ joined #parrot |
| 23:29 |
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japhb |
The above paste is a quick hack, but it's helpful to me ... up to the limit of the PBC line number inaccuracies. |
| 23:30 |
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tewk |
japhb: usually bpc line numbers are from the generated pir source. |
| 23:31 |
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dalek |
r27488 | pmichaud++ | pctcoerce: |
| 23:31 |
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dalek |
: [pct]: |
| 23:31 |
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dalek |
: * Add initial register coercion to PCT. |
| 23:31 |
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dalek |
: * Add 'opattr' method to make it easier to grab PAST::Op attributes |
| 23:31 |
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dalek |
: from OPTable entries. |
| 23:31 |
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dalek |
diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn/pa[…]evision?rev=27488 |
| 23:31 |
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japhb |
tewk: they're off for certain constructions even if I directly compile hand-coded PIR to PBC and look at it. |
| 23:32 |
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japhb |
if ops are off by a line, param handling appears out of order, and so on. |
| 23:34 |
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dalek |
r27489 | pmichaud++ | pctcoerce: |
| 23:34 |
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dalek |
: [nqp]: |
| 23:34 |
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dalek |
: * Get rid of a bunch of inline PIR for handling comparison ops |
| 23:34 |
|
dalek |
: since they can now be handled directly by PCT coercions. |
| 23:34 |
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dalek |
diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn/pa[…]evision?rev=27489 |
| 23:34 |
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pmichaud |
I love deleting code. |
| 23:35 |
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japhb |
oh yeah |
| 23:35 |
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Tene |
awesome, got do blocks and some class structure working in cardinal |
| 23:35 |
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japhb |
(insert St. Exupery quote here) |
| 23:35 |
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japhb |
Tene++ |
| 23:35 |
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pmichaud |
r27489 removed 102 lines of code. :-) |
| 23:35 |
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Tene |
I can now run /usr/share/doc/ruby/sample/fact.rb (except for ARGV) |
| 23:35 |
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pmichaud |
woo hoo! Tene++ |
| 23:36 |
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pmichaud |
tonight's use.perl post should be a biggie :-) |
| 23:36 |
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Tene |
if I get internet back, I'll commit |
| 23:37 |
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chromatic |
. o 0 O { How are you posting to IRC? } |
| 23:37 |
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pmichaud |
carrier pigeons. |
| 23:37 |
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chromatic |
latency++ |
| 23:37 |
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Tene |
pmichaud: found a specific place where a rule recursively matching itself causes problems |
| 23:37 |
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Tene |
chromatic: ssh on phone |
| 23:37 |
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pmichaud |
Tene: if the rule is left recursive and doesn't eat any tokens, then it's an infinite loop, yes. |
| 23:37 |
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chromatic |
sorry... but if my typing is too noisy, turn off your screen reader |
| 23:38 |
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Tene |
So, anyone know if I can set svn props through git-svn, or, alternately, how much of a problem is it if I do it in a separate commit? |
| 23:39 |
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Eevee |
cpip++ |
| 23:40 |
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Tene |
pmichaud: I have a restricted case where it's giving me problems in cardinal. I'll see if I can find a workaround for now... |
| 23:40 |
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tewk |
Tene: don't you still have to do two commits to get MANIFEST updated, or did someone fix that. |
| 23:41 |
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Tene |
tewk: I update it by hand |
| 23:41 |
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tewk |
Tene: cool sounds like you have at least what I had working before I blew it away. Cool. |
| 23:42 |
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tewk |
I'm lazy, I just check in twice and use the script for MANIFEST. |
| 23:48 |
|
dalek |
r27490 | pmichaud++ | pctcoerce: |
| 23:48 |
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dalek |
: [pct]: |
| 23:48 |
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dalek |
: * Add signatures for isfalse, istrue, issame. |
| 23:48 |
|
dalek |
diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn/pa[…]evision?rev=27490 |
| 23:48 |
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dalek |
r27491 | pmichaud++ | pctcoerce: |
| 23:48 |
|
dalek |
: [nqp]: |
| 23:48 |
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dalek |
: * Update prefix:+, prefix:-, prefix:?, prefix:!, prefix:~, infix:<=:=> |
| 23:48 |
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dalek |
: to use pirops directly instead of inline pir. |
| 23:48 |
|
dalek |
diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn/pa[…]evision?rev=27491 |
| 23:53 |
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rdice joined #parrot |
| 23:55 |
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nopaste |
"pmichaud" at 76.183.97.54 pasted "Code generation, old PCT versus new (with register coercions)" (33 lines) at http://nopaste.snit.ch/12961 |
| 23:56 |
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chromatic |
There are some nice wins there. |
| 23:57 |
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pmichaud |
more coming -- the places where I optimized thus far are in comparisons and string handling |
| 23:59 |
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chromatic |
How close are you to a merge back? |
| 23:59 |
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pmichaud |
what the numbers don't show is that most of the lines that are gone were doing things like $P0 = new 'String'; $P0 = "foo"; |
| 23:59 |
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pmichaud |
in place of those we have $S0 = "foo" |
| 23:59 |
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japhb |
Nice work, pmichaud |
