Camelia, the Perl 6 bug

IRC log for #parrot, 2008-05-23

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Time Nick Message
00:06 teknomunk joined #parrot
00:08 wknight8111 noted.
00:16 * DietCoke tries to figure out where we test the calling conventions
00:16 DietCoke t/op/calling ?
00:16 DietCoke (why is that under -op-?)
00:19 pmichaud probably because it was 'invoke' at one time.
00:19 pmichaud draft of article about P6object :   http://www.pmichaud.com/sandbox/post3.txt
00:19 pmichaud comments welcome
00:19 pmichaud (but right now I have to go to the grocery store, so bbiah)
00:20 donaldh joined #parrot
00:26 DietCoke "new class exists in as a normal Parrot class"
00:38 dalek r27757 | Whiteknight++ | trunk:
00:38 dalek : [docs] update/improve chapter 2 of docs/book/.
00:38 dalek diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn​/parrot/revision?rev=27757
00:41 DietCoke I run gdb on parrot. I try to set a breakpoint on Parrot_process_args; it claims to not know anything about it. any clues?
00:42 dalek r27758 | Whiteknight++ | trunk:
00:42 dalek : [docs] kill trailing whitespace in docs/book/ch01_overview.pod
00:42 dalek diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn​/parrot/revision?rev=27758
00:48 cognominal joined #parrot
01:12 wknight8111 how many actual registers of each type are there now? Is it still limited to 32 per type?
01:13 wknight8111 I seem to remember that the limit was raised, but I dont remember what it was raised to
01:16 Eevee last I heard it was raised to infinity
01:17 wknight8111 That's what I thought, but I couldn't remember if it was "$P0" registers or actual "P0"
01:22 wknight8111 I take it also that P31 is not "reserved for spilling" then, and that extra registers don't need to be stored on the user stack?
01:22 wknight8111 I mean, I know the user stack has been deleted
01:27 dalek r27759 | coke++ | trunk:
01:27 dalek : Add test for RT#39844
01:27 dalek : mdiep++ for the original bug report.
01:27 dalek diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn​/parrot/revision?rev=27759
01:31 bacek_ vany: ping
01:52 dalek r27760 | coke++ | trunk:
01:52 dalek : RT #45189
01:52 dalek : Remove some deprecated PGE syntax. Modified version of patch originally supplied by chromatic++ with suggestions from pmichaud++.
01:52 dalek : prove t\library\File_Spec.t , all tests pass.
01:52 dalek diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn​/parrot/revision?rev=27760
01:55 * DietCoke digs out a 13 year old o'reilly lex & yacc signed by levine himself to try to figure something out.
02:06 cognominal but we want to kill them :)
02:06 DietCoke kill whom?
02:06 cognominal lex and yacc
02:06 DietCoke anyone here understand them?
02:07 cognominal ask your question, may be I know
02:07 DietCoke I don't know enough to formulate the question. =-)
02:08 DietCoke (looking at http://rt.perl.org/rt3/Tic​ket/Display.html?id=46499). I have found "sub_params" in imcc.y and am trying to add in "LINECOMMENT" in the proper location .
02:08 tetragon Bleh, seems like I still need to apply my -arch patch (#52214) for parrot to build
02:08 cognominal formulating the question is the pass to the answer
02:09 DietCoke tetragon: That patch would be more like to be applied it if was just in the darwin section.
02:09 DietCoke ls config/init/hints/darwin.pm
02:10 tetragon So, how would you suggest having that file only stop a fat build when the -arch flags come from the Perl 5 config
02:11 * cognominal looks at imcc.y
02:12 DietCoke it's all run at config time. but if this is a darwin only thing, the place for it is in the darwin hints, I think.
02:12 DietCoke (at least for where you have $^O eq 'darwin')
02:13 * DietCoke edges closer on his imcc issue!
02:14 cognominal sub_param should allow a comment.
02:14 DietCoke but it doesn't.
02:15 DietCoke as I said, that's where I am. (ah, I forgot to mention I was in that sub.) yes.
02:16 DietCoke I have it working for an initial comment, now trying to get it working for an inter-param comment.
02:19 DietCoke ... crap. initial comments always worked.
02:19 cognominal I should  be in bed
02:20 cognominal I don't see how comment can be other than in a line by themselves
02:20 DietCoke it can't.
02:20 DietCoke but .param 's only take up one line.
02:20 DietCoke look at the example in t/compilers/imcc/syn/regressions.t (last tiest)
02:21 cognominal I have broken my tree, so I nedd to get at that first :(
02:23 cognominal it seems that I got \h \v \H and \V to compile
02:23 cognominal nope :(
02:37 dalek r27761 | Whiteknight++ | trunk:
02:37 dalek : [docs] update the first third of /docs/book/ch03_pir_basics. more updates needed.
02:37 dalek diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn​/parrot/revision?rev=27761
02:45 Eevee joined #parrot
02:51 pmichaud \h \v \H and \V supposedly work in PGE.
02:51 pmichaud do you have a case that shows them not working?
02:55 cognominal see Expr.pir::1042  they are missing
02:55 pmichaud those aren't implemented in Exp.pir
02:55 pmichaud they're in Perl6Regex.pir
02:56 cognominal arf
02:56 cognominal so my rules are wrong
02:57 tetragon Bleh, I have a build getting past the first gcc invocation now with a darwin hints flag munger, but ld is failing (for what would most likely be a reason unrelated to the munger)
02:58 pmichaud see also the tests for \h \v \H \v in t/compilers/pge/perl6regex/rx_metachars
02:58 tetragon ld: duplicate symbol _Parrot_exec_rel_addr in src/jit.o and src/exec.o
03:04 cognominal indeed, really go to bed now
03:05 dalek r27762 | coke++ | trunk:
03:05 dalek : RT#46499
03:05 dalek : Update syntax tests for comments and whitespace before and in the middle of
03:05 dalek : .param lists
03:05 dalek diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn​/parrot/revision?rev=27762
03:08 DietCoke pmichaud: do you know lex/yacc?
03:08 purl lex/yacc is my friend when parsing xml and sgml
03:09 wknight8111 that reminds me, I need to install lex/yacc on my new system
03:09 PerlJam purl: perl6 will be your friend  :)
03:09 purl PerlJam: sorry...
03:09 DietCoke RT#45499 looks like it should be trivial to implement if one knows yacc, so I figured I had a shot at getting it to work. =-)
03:10 DietCoke anyone else lying about, feel free to have at it.
03:10 wknight8111 let me look at it
03:12 wknight8111 what's the number on it? 45499 seems to be pointing to dead space
03:12 Zaba joined #parrot
03:12 DietCoke http://rt.perl.org/rt3/Tic​ket/Display.html?id=46499
03:12 DietCoke my bad.
03:12 wknight8111 thanks
03:13 dalek r27763 | coke++ | trunk:
03:13 dalek : ... Make sure the whitespace we're supposed to be testing is present.
03:13 dalek diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn​/parrot/revision?rev=27763
03:14 wknight8111 I assume we're patching IMCC and not PIRC?
03:15 wknight8111 well, i guess there is nothing stopping me from doing both except a few tuits
03:19 tetragon Hrm... exec.c lost the extern on "char **Parrot_exec_rel_addr;" (line 64 of exec.c) since my last successful build (I think it was r27690)
03:27 starc joined #parrot
03:28 wknight8111 I could tackle #48549 too, now that i have lex/yacc installed!
03:44 cotto_home DietCoke, I'll be glad to do a release if I can ever get clearance from work.
03:45 cotto_home sorry I can't be more immediately helpful
03:50 mdiep_ joined #parrot
03:50 mdiep_ left #parrot
03:52 tetragon So, r27736 broke building on my box
04:11 tetragon joined #parrot
04:13 * tetragon notices that #54602 was updated as she was relocating her system
04:39 Coke joined #parrot
04:56 Topic for #parrotis now Parrot 0.6.2 "Reverse Sublimation" Released | http://parrotcode.org/ | 22/666 new/open tix
04:59 Coke pmichaud: can you look at http://rt.perl.org/rt3/Tic​ket/Display.html?id=53956 ? I'm not sure what cognomial is asking for, but it looks rakudo related.
05:00 pmichaud I think that ticket stems from a misunderstanding of what copy is supposed to do and how types will be implemented in Rakudo.  So I'm not even sure how to respond.
05:01 pmichaud but I'll come up with something.
05:04 pmichaud done.
05:05 gmansi joined #parrot
05:06 Coke -> z
05:16 cotto_home tutorial
05:16 purl tutorial is doing exactly what the helper does and exactly what I'm telling you to do
05:16 cotto_home pct tutorial?
05:16 purl hmmm... pct tutorial is done! See parrotblog.org.
05:17 cotto_home nopaste, pct tutorial is <reply>http://www.parrotblog.org/200​8/03/targeting-parrot-vm.html
05:17 cotto_home nopaste, pct tutorial is <reply>http://www.parrotblog.org/200​8/03/targeting-parrot-vm.html
05:17 purl i already had it that way, cotto_home.
05:17 cotto_home pct tutorial is <reply>http://www.parrotblog.org/200​8/03/targeting-parrot-vm.html
05:18 cotto_home no, pct tutorial is <reply>http://www.parrotblog.org/200​8/03/targeting-parrot-vm.html
05:18 purl okay, cotto_home.
05:18 cotto_home take that, autocomplete
05:18 cotto_home pct tutorial?
05:18 purl http://www.parrotblog.org/200​8/03/targeting-parrot-vm.html
05:23 Andy joined #parrot
05:34 pmichaud purl, forget nopaste, pct tutorial
05:34 purl pmichaud: I forgot nopaste, pct tutorial
05:36 cotto_home thanks
05:37 cotto_home can someone please add documentation for commandline_banner and commandline_prompt to compilers/pct/src/PCT/HLLCompiler.pir?
06:00 donaldh joined #parrot
06:08 spinclad post3.txt++ pmichaud++
06:21 uniejo joined #parrot
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09:38 ank joined #parrot
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09:41 particle joined #parrot
09:54 dalek r27764 | fperrad++ | trunk:
09:54 dalek : [Lua]
09:54 dalek : - bytecode translation : fix segfault
09:54 dalek diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn​/parrot/revision?rev=27764
10:12 ruoso joined #parrot
10:15 bacek evening
10:16 cognominal is there a official logo for rakudo?
10:29 Ademan joined #parrot
10:49 cognominal ラクド
10:49 donaldh :)
10:53 cognominal I play with pixelmator to get a camel with rakudo in romaji and tatakana
10:59 Zaba katakana?
10:59 purl rumour has it katakana is for non-japanese words, Hiragana is for native ones
11:00 kj joined #parrot
11:04 donaldh or is that Kanji ?
11:07 donaldh Ah, perhaps both. http://en.wikipedia.org/wi​ki/Japanese_writing_system
11:07 cognominal katakana for rakudo
11:08 cognominal kanas are  graphically simpler than kanjis. And hiraganas are rounder than the katakanas.
11:09 cognominal so you can guess what you get without knowing anything.
11:09 donaldh :D
11:09 cognominal 楽度
11:09 masak joined #parrot
11:10 donaldh Been there. Designing onscreen displays for televisions using 'guessed' katakana.
11:11 cognominal apparently my system can translate some words in kana to kanji.
11:11 cognominal He did it from his own volition :)
11:11 cognominal I have yet to know every feature of Mac OS X
11:12 cognominal らくど
11:12 cognominal this is rakudo in hiragana
11:14 moritz it's nice, but it doesn't make a good logo
11:16 cognominal katakana is used for the translitteration of foreign words.  So writing it in katakana conveys the idea that the design has been made by strangers (I knew that word).
11:16 cognominal I am learning  pixelmator to make it.
11:17 cognominal seems like inkscape  but using Apple core image
11:17 Juerd It would be funnier to transliterate it to yet another script.
11:17 Juerd Korean? :)
11:17 masak Tibetan
11:18 askie joined #parrot
11:18 cognominal don't make it harder on me
11:19 cognominal gaijin, that's the japanese word for strangers
11:19 masak maybe Mongolian too...
11:20 cognominal when PGE will support Unicode, you will be able to use whatever alphabet for you identifiers and subclass the Perl6 grammar to do the same for keywords.
11:22 cognominal It is probably the way for Perl 6 to be taught in schools of non english speaking countries.
11:22 cognominal not that would be a good thing.
11:23 cognominal I meant countries with a non roman alphabet.
11:29 masak that might impede code reuse somewhat :/
11:30 moritz masak: I found that even comments in a foreign language kills code reuse
11:30 masak I have indications of that too
11:31 masak s/have/have seen/
11:34 cognominal when I save in jpeg, I loose the font layers. But I am close to it. This could before a graphist comes.
11:37 * tetragon looks at pixelmator
11:37 tetragon I do all of my Core Image stuff in Quartz Composer and Python
11:38 cognominal I got it in a macheist bundle but never used it before
11:41 cognominal psd?
11:41 purl well, psd is PhotoShop Document
11:43 donaldh mmm, it looks like pixelmator gets the usual mac eyecandy award.
11:55 tetragon Anyone know if there is a good reason for there to be a couple of "#if PARROT_EXEC_OS_AIX" in ppc/jit_emit.h instead of using ifdef in those cases? (lines 23 and 683)
11:56 tetragon They're triggering compiler warnings on my OS X box.
11:59 cognominal http://objectif-brousse.org/rakudo.jpg
12:00 cognominal 8666 bytes. It is low quality but ultralight
12:01 cognominal that will do for the slides I prepare for fpw2008
12:02 cognominal jonathan?
12:02 purl rumour has it jonathan is mailto:jnthn@jnthn.net
12:15 tetragon Hrm... Subtest 8 of t/op/debuginfo.t passes if I pass parrot any option that specifies a runcore (other than --slow-core), but fails if I don't (for the set of all values that I have tested so far)
12:18 pmichaud (when PGE supports Unicode)   PGE already supports Unicode.
12:19 pmichaud you probably mean "When Parrot supports Unicode at a reasonable speed... "
12:27 cognominal pmichaud: you can tell rakudo to build with unicode?
12:27 cognominal btw for \h and the other escapes, I think I was wrong.
12:28 cognominal the problem is with utf-8 ,  we could use the 32 bit encodin whatever his name.
12:29 pmichaud 32-bit doesn't work on systems w/o icu
12:29 pmichaud (actually, ucs2 would be more likely -- 16 bit.  still doesn't work w/o icu.)
12:30 cognominal I am surprised. I thought one needed icu for utf-8. I learn a lot here.
12:31 pmichaud Parrot has some minimal support for utf-8 operations.  Unfortunately, utf8 strings are slow largely because of the variable-length encoding
12:32 pmichaud about the only thing we can't reliably do on utf-8 at the moment w/o icu is downcase, upcase, and character properties for codepoints > 255
12:32 cognominal I should read the book written in French with a name whichs greek. Book I got en english cause it is cheaper.
12:32 moritz how does perl5 handle that?
12:33 cognominal Anyway, O'Reilly France is dead.
12:33 pmichaud I think perl5 just deals with variable-length encoded utf8 strings and takes the speed hit.
12:34 pmichaud But there the speed hit is much less because we're typically matching a single pattern, and can keep track of the position (both logical and absolute) without having to re-calculate it on every operation.
12:42 wknight8111 joined #parrot
12:59 Andy joined #parrot
13:13 donaldh Is the empty 'stack opcodes' page intentional? http://www.parrotcode.org/docs/ops/stack.html
13:23 cognominal these opcodes have been removed so this page should be removed to.
13:38 kj cognominal, donaldh: I'll file a ticket
13:39 donaldh thanks
13:39 kj thanks for reporting
13:42 donaldh Is there a way to specify a return parameter in an NCI signature?
13:43 donaldh s/return/out/
13:43 donaldh e.g. int sqlite3_open(const char *filename, sqlite3 **ppDb);
13:49 gryphon joined #parrot
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14:06 Coke donaldh: web page fixed.
14:06 donaldh I really should help with the rt backlog
14:07 DietCoke we'd be most appreciative. =-)
14:13 donaldh setting up an account now ...
14:17 DietCoke there are some guidelines for going through the tickets. moment.
14:17 DietCoke rt hints?
14:18 DietCoke rt hints is
14:19 DietCoke no, rt hints is http://www.parrotblog.org/2008​/05/700-ticket-challenge.html
14:19 DietCoke there you go.
14:19 DietCoke thanks.
14:19 Andy joined #parrot
14:20 DietCoke ANDY! ZOMG BBQ ACK!
14:20 Andy WHAT? WHAT WHAT WHAT?
14:21 DietCoke hey.
14:21 wknight8111 Failed test 'Pod syntax correct'
14:22 wknight8111 got: '/languages/perl6/src/pmc/mutable.pmc.template'
14:22 wknight8111 expected: ''
14:22 DietCoke Wie viel fur den Andy im Fenster?
14:22 DietCoke er..
14:22 DietCoke what is mutable.pmc.template ?
14:22 wknight8111 never heard of it
14:23 wknight8111 i assume it's some temporary for the mutable pmc that pmichaud and jonathan have been working on yesterday
14:23 DietCoke what does svn st tell you about it?
14:23 donaldh DietCoke: thanks.
14:23 wknight8111 haven't even checked, the test suite is still running
14:24 DietCoke I suspect it's just you.
14:24 DietCoke oh wait!
14:24 DietCoke there it is in svn up. wtf.
14:24 DietCoke oh, it's a -perl6- PMC. =-)
14:24 wknight8111 Last changed author: jonathan
14:24 DietCoke I am blind.
14:25 wknight8111 Last changed rev: 27755
14:25 * DietCoke lowers his screen resolution to compensate.
14:25 DietCoke ah, that's better.
14:26 wknight8111 for some reason it's being treated as a POD file, and it's failing the POD tests
14:27 wknight8111 Failed test 'Copyright statement exists'
14:27 wknight8111 No copyright statement found in 1 files: languages/perl6/build/get_mutable_pmc.pl
14:28 wknight8111 Failed test 'No multi-dot filenames'
14:28 wknight8111 Found in 1 files: 'languages/perl6/src/pmc/mutable.pmc.template'
14:28 wknight8111 A few other failures with these two files as well, mostly codingstd
14:29 wknight8111 actually, all codingstd
14:29 DietCoke I'd open a ticket and let jonathan deal with it when he returns.
14:29 DietCoke (if it was just one thing, I'd fix it.)
14:29 wknight8111 yeah, i'm working on it right now
14:42 cjfields joined #parrot
14:47 dalek r27765 | Whiteknight++ | gsoc_pdd09:
14:47 dalek : Creating branch for GSoC PDD09 garbage collector work
14:47 dalek diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn​/parrot/revision?rev=27765
14:51 particle wknight8111: re 48549 (.namespace)...
14:52 particle don't include a patch to imcparser.c, it's a generated file
14:52 particle apply the patch to imcc.y and run perl Configure.pl --maintainer
14:52 particle that will regenerate imcparser.*
14:57 wknight8111 okay, well my previous patch did exactly that. I'll test it with the --maintainer flag
15:00 wknight8111 do you think kjs would mind if i steal the ticket?
15:00 kj kjs doesn't mind :-)
15:01 wknight8111 okay, that makes it easy
15:01 wknight8111 the word "steal" always seems so negative
15:03 wknight8111 when I commit the patch though (assuming I commit it before somebody else does), I should commit imcparser.c too, right?
15:03 wknight8111 because most developers won't have lex/yacc
15:04 moritz if it's under version control you should submit it
15:04 wknight8111 ok, that's what I thought
15:05 moritz (at least that's what my common sense tells me ;)
15:06 wknight8111 how long do I give something like this? A day?
15:06 particle moritz++ # common sense
15:07 kj I always committed both the .y file and the regenerated .c/.h files, but i'm on windows (using cygwin's yacc)
15:07 particle wknight8111: start with three days
15:07 wknight8111 okay, good guideline. that will give me plenty of time to write tests
15:07 particle tests++
15:12 DietCoke a day is fine. if you get a +1 or two in the meantime from other committers, go for it.
15:12 DietCoke and we reserve the right to yell at you for screwing things up.
15:12 particle hey, let him write his tests! :P
15:12 DietCoke oh!
15:12 wknight8111 it's a good right to reserve!
15:13 * DietCoke plugs his laptop into his new lcd tv. that's a hell of a second monitor.
15:14 tewk joined #parrot
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15:29 particle coke: ping
15:29 particle er, DietCoke
15:38 DietCoke yes?
15:39 particle re gsoc and #parrotsketch
15:39 particle should auzon participate in #parrotsketch, do you think?
15:39 pmichaud auzon is primarily working on rakudo test suite, yes?
15:39 particle spec test suite
15:39 pmichaud sorry, Perl 6 test suite
15:39 particle yes
15:40 pmichaud I'd say it's up to auzon.
15:40 particle or perl 6 design meeting?
15:40 PerlJam particle: I'd say definitely.  Heck, they even let me participate on occasion  :-)
15:40 pmichaud well, parrotsketch is primarily parrot-focused.
15:40 pmichaud the Perl 6 test suite isn't really parrot.
15:40 DietCoke I would say the perl6 te... right.
15:41 DietCoke and the design meeting may be too high level.
15:41 DietCoke certainly welcome to audit the PS meetings, though.
15:41 PerlJam point him at #perl6 and TimToady and friends.
15:41 DietCoke (as is everyone else)
15:41 moritz PerlJam: too late for that, he already hangs out there ;)
15:42 sjansen joined #parrot
15:42 pmichaud as far as design meetings go -- I'd say "yes" if there are significant design questions arising from the test suite
15:42 particl1 joined #parrot
15:42 particl1 don't know which is better, though. so i'd like your thoughts
15:42 pmichaud but in some sense it might make more sense for those to go to p6l or p6c
15:42 moritz from the logs I don't think he'll profit from the design minutes
15:42 particl1 stupid freakin comcast
15:42 pmichaud I'd prefer to see test suite questions on either p6l or p6c or irc
15:43 particl1 questions will be in irc or mailing list
15:43 particl1 i want a weekly report
15:43 cjfields_ joined #parrot
15:43 pmichaud have him write use.perl journal posts
15:43 pmichaud as a weekly report
15:43 particl1 last years, we've had SoCers report in #parrotsketch
15:44 particl1 i plan to continue that for this year's crowd, but auzon is not a parrot project per se
15:44 pmichaud well, that's why I said it's really up to auzon.  Personally I'd prefer to see the weekly reports on use.perl, p6l, or p6c.
15:45 pmichaud larger audience.
15:45 purl larger audience is just a smaller audience with more faces to idly study for emotional reaction, Alias.
15:45 particle there will be official weekly reports, via a webapp or blog
15:45 particle due saturday night, every week
15:45 pmichaud I think that's good enough, personally.  I'd like to see those added to the planet perl six aggregator.
15:45 DietCoke I might have privs to that.
15:46 DietCoke (I do to parrot's, anyway)
15:47 pmichaud are you auzon's mentor for gsoc?
15:47 particle moritz is auzon's mentor. i'm backup
15:47 pmichaud I'd say it's up to you and moritz then.  :-)
15:48 particle moritz: ping
15:48 moritz auzon's blog is http://auzon.blogspot.com/, don't know if he's set up a gsoc channel
15:48 moritz particle: pong
15:48 particle moritz: do you attend #parrotsketch regularly?
15:48 moritz particle: no, I forget it quite often ;)
15:48 particle ok
15:48 moritz particle: blog is fine by me
15:49 pmichaud if it's in an rss feed somewhere I'll certainly see it and keep up with it.
15:49 pmichaud I finally discovered Google Reader and it has solved my aggregating issues :-)
15:49 particle moritz: do you want to have a formal interactive meeting every week, or just meet informally?
15:49 particle (google reader)++
15:49 particle i've been using it for years
15:50 pmichaud particle/moritz:  if the two of you wanted to set a regular meeting time for test discussions with auzon, I'll commit to attending as well.
15:50 pmichaud it could probably be done on #perl6
15:50 Auzon joined #parrot
15:50 particle hi there Auzon
15:50 pmichaud I propose we take this to #perl6.  :-)
15:51 moritz I just took Auzon here ;)
15:51 pmichaud I saw that.  :-)
15:51 Auzon Hi all.
15:51 moritz ok, over to #perl6 again ;)
15:51 Auzon left #parrot
15:51 Auzon joined #parrot
15:52 DietCoke (aggregating issues) newsgator is also nice, and has a decent mobile option.
15:52 DietCoke (and is now free.)
15:53 pmichaud well, I have so many Google tools already enabled, I figure one more doesn't hurt :-)
15:53 DietCoke (and has an awesome mac client.)
15:53 DietCoke true. I've considered switching over. Kills me because I originally paid for NG. =-)
15:55 * particle wonders if there's a phone app for google reader
15:55 pmichaud particle:  yes.  Used it yesterday in fact while the kids were swimming at our neighborhood pool  :-)
15:56 DietCoke I wish google apps would create iphone icons. would make it that much slicker, for very little effort.
16:13 wknight8111 joined #parrot
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16:37 pmichaud afk, lunch.
16:37 dalek r27766 | pmichaud++ | trunk:
16:37 dalek : [nqp]:
16:37 dalek : * Add ternary ?? !! operator to NQP.
16:37 dalek diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn​/parrot/revision?rev=27766
17:07 cotto-work joined #parrot
17:09 mj41 seen jonathan
17:09 purl jonathan was last seen on #parrot 18 hours ago, saying: so, night from me
17:10 particle long night!
17:29 ejs joined #parrot
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18:17 dalek r27767 | allison++ | pdd25cx:
18:17 dalek : [pdd25cx] Deleting stray curly bracket from merge.
18:17 dalek diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn​/parrot/revision?rev=27767
18:19 dalek r27768 | particle++ | trunk:
18:19 dalek : [rakudo] add .perl method to List
18:19 dalek diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn​/parrot/revision?rev=27768
18:19 ambs joined #parrot
18:29 dalek r27769 | particle++ | trunk:
18:29 dalek : [rakudo] classes must respect their own apis. converted all C<elements self> to C<self.'elements'()> in List
18:29 dalek diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn​/parrot/revision?rev=27769
18:33 pmichaud particle:  .perl on List should use square brackets, not parens
18:34 particle oh? that's not what pugs does.
18:34 particle parens for list, square for array
18:34 pmichaud From S02:  # To get a Perlish representation of any object, use the .perl method. Like the Data::Dumper module in Perl 5, the .perl method will put quotes around strings, square brackets around list values, curlies around hash values, constructors around objects, etc., so that Perl can evaluate the result back to the same object.
18:34 moritz particle: pugs' .perl isn't very reliable
18:34 particle ok, easy fix
18:34 purl easy fix is to add [ '-' <ident> ]? , which should suffice for now
18:34 pmichaud purl, forget easy fix
18:34 purl pmichaud: I forgot easy fix
18:37 dalek r27770 | particle++ | trunk:
18:37 dalek : [rakudo] List.perl should use square brackets. pmichaud++
18:37 dalek diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn​/parrot/revision?rev=27770
18:38 pmichaud particle++ ## class method cleanups
18:38 particle yeah, i suspect we need many more cleanups
18:38 pmichaud we do.
18:39 pmichaud I've seen lots of issues that have cropped up in the codebase since I was last working on it heavily (early january)
18:39 pmichaud so I'm doing cleanups now also
18:39 pmichaud but I'm very happy to have others do it :-)
18:41 Tene Hm.  I need to get the laptop out and git-svn rebase before I leave for the airplane.
18:44 pmichaud I'm doing the same thing before I depart on my trip.  :-)
18:45 ambs purl?
18:45 purl ambs?
18:45 pmichaud purl?
18:45 purl pmichaud?
18:45 pmichaud pmichaud?
18:45 purl you are, like, http://www.pmichaud.com/ or "Patrick R. Michaud" <mailto:pmichaud@pobox.com>
18:45 Tene tene?
18:45 purl you are probably Stephen Weeks
18:45 Tene Probably.
18:45 purl Really? Probably? Are you Certain it's not certain? Are you sure it's unsure? I think you need to look harder.
18:45 ambs purl, shut up!
18:45 purl ambs: i'm not following you...
18:47 Topic for #parrotis now Parrot 0.6.2 "Reverse Sublimation" Released | http://parrotcode.org/ | 18/672 new/open tix
18:48 Patterner joined #parrot
18:50 pmichaud gone for a while (memorial day travel)
18:50 particle enjoy!
18:52 dalek r27771 | Whiteknight++ | gsoc_pdd09:
18:52 dalek : [gsoc_pdd09] updating branch to trunk r27766
18:52 dalek diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn​/parrot/revision?rev=27771
18:55 wknight8111 yay! I'm learnding!
18:56 moritz wknight8111++
18:57 moritz I've seen your first psoc-report, sounds good
18:57 moritz wknight8111: if you have any linux (or tools) related issues feel free to ask
18:58 Tene Nice!  I think I just recruited someone else to help me with Cardinal.
18:58 Tene Except he can't really start for another two weeks.
18:58 Tene :(
18:58 kj Tene: how's the cardinal work coming along?
18:58 wknight8111 thanks for the offer, moritz! I'm sure I'll have questions eventually
18:58 kj is it faster yet? :-)
18:59 Tene kj: yes.
18:59 kj cool. Tene++
18:59 Tene I got a 50% speedup by replacing many rules with tokens
18:59 dalek r27772 | jkeenan++ | trunk:
18:59 dalek : Set SVN properties; tag.  Add copyright statement.
18:59 dalek diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn​/parrot/revision?rev=27772
18:59 kj gee, couldn't have guessed that's would that a big effect
18:59 Tene kj: the big problem right now is tweaking the parser.  I think I'll have to figure out how to get help from backtracking.
19:00 kj actually, I thought most of the grammar was there already.. wasn't it?
19:00 kj if not all..
19:00 Tene No, a lot of stuff fails to parse or parses incorrectly.
19:00 kj ooh ok
19:00 Tene I've fixed up most of it since your first commit, but I still have a few bits left over.
19:01 Tene Right now I'm trying to get 'var[0]' to parse properly.
19:01 kj I think there's some ruby grammar spec that's incorrect somewhere. I used the yacc grammar input file when I worked on cardinal
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19:02 Tene I can get either a function call with '[0]' as an argument, or a parse failure.
19:02 ambs #   Failed test 'No multi-dot filenames'
19:02 ambs #   at t/codingstd/filenames.t line 87.
19:02 ambs # Multi-dot filename found in 1 files:
19:02 ambs # languages/perl6/src/pmc/mutable.pmc.template
19:02 ambs pmichaud, this is with you? :)
19:02 Tene I got a lot of other stuff working, though.  Check the svn log.
19:02 kj ok. I'm sure you know it, but I'll say it anyway: the order of the alternatives in a rule matters
19:03 Tene Yes, that's how I can switch between thsoe two options.
19:03 Tene :)
19:03 kj and what about a ? clause?
19:03 Tene That's the other option I was going to look into this weekend.
19:03 mire joined #parrot
19:04 kj maybe it helps ifyou insert some assertions
19:04 Tene welcome, cizra
19:04 cizra hullo
19:04 kj actually, maybe that's nonsense what I just said :-P
19:04 Zaba joined #parrot
19:07 dalek r27773 | jkeenan++ | trunk:
19:07 dalek : Change filename to conform to 'no multiple-dot filenames' coding standard.
19:07 dalek diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn​/parrot/revision?rev=27773
19:07 mire joined #parrot
19:07 dalek r27774 | jkeenan++ | trunk:
19:07 dalek : Fix POD formatting error:  '=over' without corresponding '=back'.
19:07 dalek diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn​/parrot/revision?rev=27774
19:08 PerlJam kj: re alternation order matters-- once the longest token matcher gets integrated that may only be true of ||  (as it should be)  So, people who are writing grammars should probably keep that in mind and use | or || appropriately.
19:08 kj PerlJam: yes you're right
19:08 kj I keep being confused in what I should use: single or double
19:08 kj hard to remember
19:08 PerlJam if you want order to matter, you use ||
19:09 PerlJam if you want the longest match to win, you use |
19:09 PerlJam well, if you want the longest match to win *first*, you use |
19:09 PerlJam (backtracking still applies)
19:09 kj I thought rules didn't backtrack...
19:09 Tene I think that pmichaud said that LTM will make the things I'm having trouble with work better.
19:11 Tene kj: but regexes do.
19:11 PerlJam kj: okay, back tracking *may* apply  :)
19:11 PerlJam You can turn it on/off at will withing a rule/regex/token
19:11 PerlJam s/ing/in/
19:11 kj ah ok
19:12 PerlJam but, yes you're right.  rules don't backtrack by default.
19:14 DietCoke -> install memory
19:15 ambs question: is it relevant to add a configure step to detect operating system and operting system version?
19:16 particle ambs: why do you need that info? and isn't it there already in init/defaults or somesuch?
19:16 particle if parrot currently pulls that info blindly from perl's config, then we should have a step that does it ourselves
19:17 ambs particle, ATM I need it do decide wether to use dlopen or the NSfoobar API to open shared libraries under MacOS
19:17 ambs but let me look into init/defaults
19:17 particle likely you want to modify init::hints &| init::defaults
19:19 ambs probably
19:19 purl Really? Probably? Are you Certain it's not certain? Are you sure it's unsure? I think you need to look harder.
19:19 moritz purl: forget probably
19:19 purl moritz: I forgot probably
19:19 ambs moritz, thanks
19:20 Auzon ls
19:20 ambs & # dinner
19:21 ambs Auzon, no such file or directory
19:21 * Auzon now notices this is not a terminal
19:21 Auzon ambs++
19:25 Coke joined #parrot
19:26 * Coke quadruples the RAM on his desktop.
19:27 confound did you paint it mauve?
19:27 moritz RAM came and diet went?
19:28 DietCoke joined #parrot
19:28 confound CokeZero
19:28 DietCoke there we go. I never told my irc client about my new nick. CokeZero can be when I'm done. =-)
19:28 confound DietCoke: you don't have to /quit to change your nick
19:29 DietCoke confound: no, but I do have to quit to test to make sure that my default nick is setup properly for startup. kthnxbye.
19:29 confound wtf? I was just trying to be helpful
19:30 DietCoke I have a hard time of thinking of a way of saying "thanks, but I knew that." without sounding like an ass. sorry.
19:30 confound oh.  it was the 'kthnxbye' that did it :)
19:31 DietCoke sadly, the memory win is only a triple, not a quadruple. (stupid imac)
19:31 DietCoke (can't address the last gig.) ah well, still much better.
19:31 * DietCoke tries a parrot build.
19:31 confound really? bleah
19:31 DietCoke older models had an issue; you can put in 4gb, but only use 3.
19:35 Tene exam over.  go-go-gadget airport!
19:36 cognominal my  macintel thanked me for upgrading to 2Go. He keeps always 500Ko free to be ready to swap in something
19:36 cognominal The difference with the 512Ko config was amazing.
19:36 cognominal oops you speak bytes, non octets
20:08 ruoso joined #parrot
20:10 dalek allison@perl.org | A foundation for Parrot:
20:10 dalek link: http://www.perlfoundation.org/parro​t/index.cgi?a_foundation_for_parrot
20:10 shorten dalek's url is at http://xrl.us/bkxq5
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21:16 donaldh DietCoke: re http://rt.perl.org/rt3/Ticket/Modify.html?id=39827 is_abs_path is implemented in src/library.c
21:18 Zaba_ joined #parrot
21:19 lichtkind joined #parrot
21:19 lichtkind congrats for 0.6.2
21:19 lichtkind ist has different bugs than 0.6.1 :)
21:20 autarch joined #parrot
21:20 autarch left #parrot
21:20 lichtkind where to file bugreport?
21:20 Infinoid purl, parrotbug?
21:20 purl i guess parrotbug is mailto:parrotbug@parrotcode.org or http://svn.perl.org/parrot/​trunk/docs/submissions.pod or see also "rakudobug"
21:21 lichtkind purl, rakudobug?
21:21 purl i guess rakudobug is mailto:rakudobug@perl.org
21:21 lichtkind thanks In
21:22 lichtkind thanks Infinoid
21:22 Infinoid lichtkind++ # finding and reporting bugs
21:22 lichtkind Infinoid: it wasnt that hard when simple say fails :)
21:23 Infinoid well, that's more testing than I've been able to do for the last week or so... :)
21:23 dalek allison@perl.org | Bylaws:
21:23 dalek link: http://www.perlfoundation.o​rg/parrot/index.cgi?bylaws
21:24 dalek allison@perl.org | Bylaws:
21:24 dalek link: http://www.perlfoundation.o​rg/parrot/index.cgi?bylaws
21:26 dalek allison@perl.org | Bylaws:
21:26 dalek link: http://www.perlfoundation.o​rg/parrot/index.cgi?bylaws
21:26 lichtkind k send
21:26 lichtkind good night
21:26 purl sleep fast, sleep tight, don't let the bed bugs bite
21:26 lichtkind haha
21:27 IllvilJa joined #parrot
21:36 bacek morning everyone
21:39 spinclad afternoon, bacek.
21:57 dalek allison@perl.org | Bylaws:
21:57 dalek link: http://www.perlfoundation.o​rg/parrot/index.cgi?bylaws
21:58 Ivatar joined #parrot
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22:02 dalek allison@perl.org | Bylaws:
22:02 dalek link: http://www.perlfoundation.o​rg/parrot/index.cgi?bylaws
22:06 dalek allison@perl.org | Bylaws:
22:06 dalek link: http://www.perlfoundation.o​rg/parrot/index.cgi?bylaws
22:08 dalek allison@perl.org | Bylaws:
22:08 dalek link: http://www.perlfoundation.o​rg/parrot/index.cgi?bylaws
22:12 teknomunk joined #parrot
22:22 bacek rakudobugs?
22:23 bacek purl, rakudobugs?
22:23 purl bacek: i don't know
22:23 moritz without the 's'
22:23 bacek purl, rakudobug?
22:23 purl well, rakudobug is mailto:rakudobug@perl.org
22:23 moritz rakudo has only one bug at a time!
22:25 bacek moritz, :)
22:25 Eevee I suppose "not done yet" could be construed as a single bug
22:28 * bacek fixed implementation of List.map during morning coffee
22:29 bacek Can anyone review #54740 and #54742 please
22:29 mire joined #parrot
22:30 * moritz just sent patch to #54734
22:30 DietCoke donaldh++
22:30 * bacek thinks that other List's methods should use Iterator instead of indexed access aswell
22:30 DietCoke bacek: are they parrot or perl6?
22:31 Infinoid moritz: I had just made an identical change :)
22:32 dalek allison@perl.org | Bylaws:
22:32 dalek link: http://www.perlfoundation.o​rg/parrot/index.cgi?bylaws
22:32 DietCoke dalek: you should wait a minute before reporting on those updates. :|
22:32 dalek allison@perl.org | Bylaws:
22:32 dalek link: http://www.perlfoundation.o​rg/parrot/index.cgi?bylaws
22:32 DietCoke Seriously.
22:32 purl Seriously. are you some kind of python programmer?
22:32 Infinoid *ouch*
22:32 dalek r27775 | infinoid++ | trunk:
22:32 dalek : [rakudo] Fix compilation (RT #54734), moritz++.
22:32 dalek diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn​/parrot/revision?rev=27775
22:33 dalek allison@perl.org | Bylaws:
22:33 dalek link: http://www.perlfoundation.o​rg/parrot/index.cgi?bylaws
22:33 paco joined #parrot
22:35 bacek DietCoke, rakudo
22:42 bacek purl, python rulez?
22:42 purl bacek: wish i knew
22:42 bacek purl, python?
22:42 purl i guess python is THE SCOURGE OF MAN
22:44 Eevee I wouldn't go THAT far
22:44 Eevee purl, php?
22:44 purl it has been said that php is really badly designed or swahili for "child molestor" or  or Philippine pesos or the best or PHP: Hardly Programming or brought to you by the teletubbies or proof there is no god or http://xrl.us/t6wx or more modular than perl or the little transgender brother of perl or a WOMBAT or http://tnx.nl/php or easy or or was better when it was a templating system or blamed on Rasmus Lerdorf
22:44 Eevee purl, perl?
22:44 purl i heard perl was or a rather nice compromise between lisp, c and my native spoken language or a 4 letter word
22:45 Auzon purl, purl?
22:45 purl i am going alone. or almost an anagram of Donaudampfschiffahrtskapitaensmuetzenkordel or a perv or an auto-triage bot or a she or so stupid or a smartass or the sixth beatle. or http://www.infobot.org or dumb or a butt sniffer
22:46 Eevee purl, purl is also me
22:46 purl okay, Eevee.
22:46 Eevee purl, purl?
22:46 purl i am going alone. or almost an anagram of Donaudampfschiffahrtskapitaensmuetzenkordel or a perv or an auto-triage bot or a she or so stupid or a smartass or the sixth beatle. or http://www.infobot.org or dumb or a butt sniffer or me
23:00 Tene I updated cardinal to track the rakoo object model changes
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