Camelia, the Perl 6 bug

IRC log for #parrot, 2008-06-19

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01:25 Whiteknight how often does the pugs repo get updated?
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01:32 Whiteknight ..nevermind, I'm watching it happen on #perl6
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02:43 dalek r28529 | Whiteknight++ | trunk:
02:43 dalek : [docs] major updates, revisions, and deletions for memory_internals.pod. More needed.
02:43 dalek diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn​/parrot/revision?rev=28529
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03:14 dalek r28530 | japhb++ | trunk:
03:14 dalek : [OpenGL] shapes.pir: Split draw_objects; prep for pfx
03:14 dalek : * Split up long draw_objects routine
03:14 dalek : * Minor cleanups in pieces of draw_objects
03:14 dalek : * Placeholder quad for future particle effect
03:14 dalek diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn​/parrot/revision?rev=28530
03:15 dalek r28531 | japhb++ | trunk:
03:15 dalek : [OpenGL] shapes.pir: track dt in time system; single particle in effect
03:15 dalek : * Refactor time subsystem to track dt
03:15 dalek : * Halve speed of rotations
03:15 dalek : * Calculate and draw single particle in "black hole" particle effect
03:15 dalek diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn​/parrot/revision?rev=28531
03:15 dalek r28532 | japhb++ | trunk:
03:15 dalek : [OpenGL] shapes.pir: factor out particle updates
03:15 dalek : * Factor out particle update from particle draw routine
03:15 dalek diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn​/parrot/revision?rev=28532
03:15 dalek r28533 | japhb++ | trunk:
03:15 dalek : [OpenGL] shapes.pir: Multiple particles in effect
03:15 dalek : * Add particles every so often, up to 1000 total
03:15 dalek : * Update and draw all particles
03:15 dalek diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn​/parrot/revision?rev=28533
03:15 dalek r28534 | japhb++ | trunk:
03:15 dalek : [OpenGL] shapes.pir: More particle effect improvements
03:15 dalek : * Update particles only once per frame, not per draw
03:15 dalek : * Randomize particle spawn position and velocity
03:15 dalek : * Recycle particles that escape or get captured
03:15 dalek : * Tweak view and pfx angle/origin for visual interest
03:15 dalek diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn​/parrot/revision?rev=28534
03:15 dalek r28535 | japhb++ | trunk:
03:16 dalek : [OpenGL] shapes.pir: Default to 500x500 window size
03:16 dalek diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn​/parrot/revision?rev=28535
03:16 Whiteknight !!!
03:16 japhb 'git svn dcommit' ftw
03:16 Whiteknight oh, i thought you were just a very fast typer!
03:16 japhb :-)
03:18 japhb update and try running shapes.pir now ... I've added a new "object" to the scene
03:18 * Whiteknight is all excited!
03:19 Whiteknight I still only see the triangle and the teapot
03:20 japhb you updated first to 28535?
03:21 Whiteknight svn update && parrot examples/opengl/shapes.pir
03:21 * apeiron smokes a parrot OpenBSD-style
03:21 japhb apeiron++
03:21 japhb Whiteknight: what does 'svn info' say?
03:22 apeiron VMWare is quite handy for this, in fact.
03:22 Whiteknight japhb, Last Changed Author: japhb, Last Chagned Rev: 28535
03:22 Whiteknight do I have to remake parrot or anything?
03:22 japhb ur?
03:22 japhb That's ... odd
03:23 japhb You shouldn't have to.  What's your platform again?
03:23 Whiteknight debian, ubuntu 8.04
03:23 japhb How long did you let it run?
03:23 Whiteknight a few seconds
03:23 Whiteknight why, does something magically appear?
03:24 japhb Try like half a minute -- it's a particle effect
03:24 Whiteknight ooooh, i like particle effects
03:24 japhb It should have been obvious earlier, but then I realize I knew where to look.  :-)
03:25 Whiteknight reflections?
03:26 Whiteknight or were those always there?
03:26 japhb Those have been there for a while, but I did improve them somewhat
03:27 japhb Particle effect never appeared?
03:27 Whiteknight what's the particle effect i'm supposed to see? because I dont see anything
03:27 japhb grrr
03:27 japhb paste your glxinfo, please?
03:27 Whiteknight ...and if I wanted to do that, I would...?
03:28 japhb The glxinfo command is almost always installed on Unix-like operating systems that have OpenGL, so it should be there.
03:29 japhb And there's a nopaste script in tools/dev/nopaste.pl, so you can pipe it into that
03:30 japhb .oO( Perhaps I should write a cross-platform clone of glxinfo in PIR, and tell people to run *that* ... )
03:30 Whiteknight urg, what's the nopaste url? mines not working, I need to hit CPAN for some dependencies
03:30 japhb nopaste?
03:30 clunker3 http://pasta.test-smoke.org/ or http://paste.husk.org/ or http://nopaste.snit.ch:8001/ or http://rafb.net/paste or http://poundperl.pastebin.com/ or http://paste.scsys.co.uk/
03:32 japhb BTW, I don't think you need to hit raw CPAN for those dependencies -- since you're on a Debian clone, everything needed should be an apt-get away
03:32 Whiteknight http://rafb.net/p/7X3zbJ51.html
03:33 japhb Wow, SuperSavage?  Really?  That's history ....
03:34 Whiteknight yeah, this laptop was used back when I bought it
03:34 Whiteknight about two and a half years ago
03:34 japhb Hmmm, I've got a hunch.
03:35 japhb give me a sec here ...
03:35 Whiteknight just say it! my inferior technology is wasting time, decreasing performance, and probably giving me a virus
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03:35 japhb Line 592 of shapes.pir (the one that enables GL_POINT_SMOOTH).  Comment that out and try again, please.
03:36 japhb Whiteknight: I'd more expect you to get a virus from the used keyboard than the operating system.  :-)
03:37 Whiteknight i see it! it's like a blizzard thingy!
03:37 Whiteknight this is the happiest day of my life
03:37 japhb Wheee ...
03:37 japhb LOL
03:37 Whiteknight well, not quite, but it's still very fun
03:37 japhb You're easily pleased.  ;-)
03:38 Whiteknight it EXPLODED!
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03:39 japhb Now the question is how to detect that antialiased points are available or not ... or just work around the problem completely by going to textured quads
03:40 japhb The explosion effect is usually because of a large frame time, like when switching between windows in your window manager.  Due to humongous dt, the integration goes through the window and powie.
03:40 japhb Perhaps I should set a max dt ...
03:41 Whiteknight no, leave it. The explosion is awesome
03:41 Whiteknight in fact, make it do it more
03:41 japhb just alt-tab a lot, you'll see it
03:41 japhb ;-)
03:42 japhb Another app redrawing itself tends to make X hickup
03:43 Whiteknight good job japhb, this is awesome
03:44 japhb thanks!
03:44 cjfields japhb++
03:44 cjfields pretty slick!
03:44 japhb :-)
03:45 Whiteknight japhb, what do you do? how did you get these mad opengl skillz?
03:46 Whiteknight job, open source work, deal with the devil?
03:47 japhb Whiteknight: by day, I run a web site.  By night, I study graphics.  It's what I really would rather be doing for a $day_job, frankly.  :-)
03:48 Whiteknight it's still hot. good job
03:48 japhb thanks again
03:49 Whiteknight okay, i'm out for a bit. later
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03:58 cotto_yapc how long do RT replies take to get to the mailing list?
04:11 Whiteknight rand(days(10000))
04:11 Whiteknight i've been trying to figure that out myself
04:11 cotto_yapc goodie
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04:26 diakopter pmichaud: you around?
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07:03 dalek r28536 | fperrad++ | trunk:
07:03 dalek : [Lua]
07:03 dalek : - add tests
07:03 dalek diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn​/parrot/revision?rev=28536
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08:45 jonathan morning all
08:46 moritz morning jonathan ;)
08:48 bacek_ jonathan: its 18:48 already. You should wake early! :)
08:51 jonathan Early? Ugh!
08:52 jonathan I'm a man of the night. :-)
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09:24 dalek r28537 | jonathan++ | trunk:
09:24 dalek : [rakudo] Start refactoring 'does' to be more in line with STD.pm. This gets rid of trait_or_does, making does just be a trait_auxiliary.
09:24 dalek diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn​/parrot/revision?rev=28537
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11:07 dalek r28538 | jonathan++ | trunk:
11:07 dalek : [rakudo] Big refactor of package declration code. This brings us closer to STD.pm and also breaks one enormous method down into several smaller ones, which should make the code easier to extend and maintain.
11:07 dalek diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn​/parrot/revision?rev=28538
11:12 moritz refactoring++
11:13 moritz masak: did you open a ticket for your $_ patch?
11:34 dalek r28539 | fperrad++ | libs4php:
11:34 dalek : made a copy
11:34 dalek diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn​/parrot/revision?rev=28539
11:34 masak moritz: yes, long ago
11:34 masak at least if 'open a ticket' means what I think it means
11:34 masak I sent an email to rakudobug
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11:34 moritz ok, good
11:35 masak and the patch ticked was merged with the bug ticket
11:35 masak but I guess no-one has had time to look at it
11:35 * moritz wishes he had a commit bit already
11:36 masak I see what you mean
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12:45 dalek r28540 | jonathan++ | trunk:
12:45 dalek : [rakudo] Get !keyword_does to take a role PMC rather than a name, making it re-usable. Also switch from ident to name in a couple of places, which will help us get namespace things right later on.
12:45 dalek diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn​/parrot/revision?rev=28540
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13:23 dalek r28541 | fperrad++ | libs4php:
13:23 dalek : [php] add a generator skeleton
13:23 dalek diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn​/parrot/revision?rev=28541
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13:31 dalek r28542 | fperrad++ | libs4php:
13:31 dalek : [php] add generated skeletons
13:31 dalek diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn​/parrot/revision?rev=28542
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13:38 dalek r28543 | fperrad++ | libs4php:
13:38 dalek : [php] beginning of framework
13:38 dalek diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn​/parrot/revision?rev=28543
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13:45 dalek r28544 | fperrad++ | libs4php:
13:45 dalek : [php] update MANIFEST
13:45 dalek diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn​/parrot/revision?rev=28544
13:48 jonathan Wheee.
13:48 jonathan role Foo { method test { say 42 } }
13:48 jonathan class Bar { }
13:48 jonathan my $x = Bar.new(); $x does Foo; $x.test
13:48 jonathan 4
13:49 jonathan erm, 42
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13:50 moritz cool
13:50 moritz does my $x = Bar.new() but Foo; also work?
13:51 moritz or is that a different beast?
13:51 jonathan It's a related beast.
13:51 jonathan but is does with some extra magic.
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13:51 jonathan And return 0 but True will need enums to be implemented first.
13:52 jonathan But this is a step towards that.
13:52 dalek r28545 | Whiteknight++ | gsoc_pdd09:
13:52 dalek : [gsoc_pdd09] update to trunk r28544
13:52 dalek diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn​/parrot/revision?rev=28545
13:52 moritz cool, commit and ship it ;)
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13:55 jonathan moritz: It's a tad incomplete at the moment - gotta handle the role bringing in new attributes. But hopefully I have something ready to ci within the hour, plus some tests with it.
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14:29 dalek r28546 | jonathan++ | trunk:
14:29 dalek : [rakudo] Implement basic use of does operator for mixing in a role to an existing object at runtime. This was most neatly done with a dynop, so this check-in also adds a dynops file for Rakudo. make makefile will be required to build after this check-in.
14:29 dalek diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn​/parrot/revision?rev=28546
14:29 pmichaud jonathan: any chance that could be moved to parrot core?
14:29 jonathan pmichaud: The op?
14:29 pmichaud yes.
14:30 pmichaud I know that role mixins are supposed to be supported.
14:30 jonathan It sure could be, it did occur to me as I was writing it that this may happen.
14:30 pmichaud I asked allison about it several months ago and iirc she said that it would be supported sometime after the pdd17pmc changes went in
14:30 jonathan But I figured keeping it in Rakudo at first, while I got the semantics right and to give allison a change of review, was the way.
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14:31 jonathan s/change/chance/
14:31 pmichaud works for me.  was just curious if it can easily be made into a core op.
14:31 jonathan Oh, that's copy-paste work, almost. :-)
14:31 pmichaud I was pleased that I got allison to add a couple of ops for PGE this past weekend :-)
14:31 jonathan Ooh, what did we get?
14:31 jonathan Branch related stuff?
14:31 pmichaud pbj and pbr
14:31 pmichaud "peanut butter and bad beer"  :-)
14:32 pmichaud pbj $P0, LABEL     #  push addr of next instruction onto $P0 and branch to LABEL
14:32 pmichaud pbr $P0    # pop address from $P0 and jump to it
14:32 pmichaud these replace PGE's use of bsr/ret
14:33 * jonathan hopes you can segfault Parrot with this by putting odd stuff in $P0.
14:33 pmichaud yes, you probably can.  We talked about that also and figured we could get some strategies around that as well.
14:33 jonathan OK, so long as it's being thought about.
14:33 pmichaud e.g., the addresses could be offsets from the beginning of the sub, and we could at least bounds-check them.
14:33 jonathan That sounds sensible.
14:33 pmichaud the advantage is that $P0 can be something compact like a ResizableIntegerArray
14:34 jonathan But anyway, should perform way better than taking continuations all the time.
14:34 pmichaud so we don't end up with a separate gc-able element for every branch/return
14:34 pmichaud exactly
14:34 pmichaud also, I can put my other integers onto the same array
14:34 jonathan Neat.
14:34 pmichaud (since most of what PGE has to save/restore is integers)
14:34 jonathan (so long as they don't get mxied up with the return points!)
14:34 pmichaud oh, it's pretty regular.  :-)
14:35 pmichaud save int, save int, branch, pop int, pop int.
14:35 jonathan (not too much to go wrong)++
14:35 pmichaud did you see the schedule for YAPC::EU?
14:35 jonathan Yes.
14:35 jonathan Last I looked, we're both on day 1.
14:35 pmichaud yes.
14:35 pmichaud looked really good to me.
14:36 jonathan Yeah, it's almost a Perl 6 / Parrot track in the main room on the first day.
14:36 pmichaud pretty much.
14:36 jonathan Looks like a good overall schedule too.
14:36 * DietCoke has given up on yapc::eu for this year.
14:36 pmichaud yes.
14:36 jjuran What if the return address has a special type that's only created by pbj?
14:36 DietCoke (probably not going to be able to arrange the travel)
14:36 pmichaud jjuran: that somewhat defeats the purpose (i.e., of being able to use ResizableIntegerArray)
14:37 pmichaud in the long run we may end up not needing it anyway, but for now I'm hoping it'll be a big improvement in parsing speed
14:38 jjuran How much asm fu are you intending to allow?
14:38 DietCoke ?
14:39 jjuran I mean, is the ability to munge the return address a feature?
14:40 pmichaud not really.
14:42 jjuran Okay, how about static analysis *waves hands* to determine if you modify $P0 in between entry and pbr?
14:43 pmichaud well, $P0 could be modified, yes, because there will be nested pbj's
14:44 jonathan I think what was menat was, no instruction other than a pbj and a pbr modifies $P0.
14:44 jjuran Sure, but you could permit only modifications by nested pbj/pbr.
14:44 pmichaud well, anyone who wanted to work around the static analysis would likely be able to trivially do so.
14:45 pmichaud if it's _that_ big an issue, then we'll just go back to having a per-sub branch/ret object.
14:45 jjuran What about a dedicated register for jumps?
14:47 pmichaud (dedicated register == same as per-sub branch/ret object)
14:47 pmichaud (i.e., we eliminate the register and just call it   pbj LABEL and pbr)
14:47 dalek r28547 | jonathan++ | trunk:
14:47 dalek : [rakudo] Add (passing) mixins test to Rakudo passing list.
14:47 dalek diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn​/parrot/revision?rev=28547
14:47 pmichaud (which is effectively the same as bsr/ret)
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14:58 dalek r28548 | jonathan++ | trunk:
14:58 dalek : [rakudo] Fix to make $foo does (R1, R2) working.
14:58 dalek diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn​/parrot/revision?rev=28548
14:58 jonathan Wow. My English be bad.
15:01 moritz jonathan: just missing a pair of quotes ;)
15:02 confound hmm.  I sent mail to parrot-porters yesterday, but I haven't seen it hit the mailing list yet.
15:03 DietCoke confound: are you subscribed to the list with the sending address?
15:03 smash joined #parrot
15:03 smash hello everyone
15:04 Whiteknight hello smash
15:04 DietCoke SMASH
15:04 confound DietCoke: ytes
15:04 DietCoke confound it!
15:04 confound DietCoke: both header and envelope from
15:05 DietCoke freaky. there are often delays, though. :|
15:05 DietCoke apparently perl.org has to slog through a lot of spam.
15:09 DietCoke tcl: puts [expr tanh(3)]
15:09 polyglotbot OUTPUT[0.9950547536867305␤]
15:10 moritz who really needs a tangens hyperbolicus? ;-)
15:10 Patterner me.
15:11 moritz actually I needed it once or twice as well, but usually it turned out that I borked a previous derivation ;)
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15:26 masak tanh and atanh are very useful for transforming between finite and infinite intervals
15:27 masak I've done it once or twice when I've wanted to plot the entirety of a function within a rectangle
15:28 moritz you know you're a geek if several people around you know what tanh is ;-)
15:28 masak wait, doesn't everybody? :P
15:31 moritz masak: well, yes. Just like everybody knows what the '+c' is at the end of many integrals ;)
15:31 * masak thought that was common knowledge
15:32 masak sort of like the Lourve and the Empire State Building
15:35 moritz more like the basics of laser physics and computer programming ;)
15:37 cjfields joined #parrot
15:37 szbalint science and math is fun and anyone who doesn't think so doesn't interest me
15:37 szbalint :)
15:39 dalek r28549 | jonathan++ | trunk:
15:39 dalek : [rakudo] Get initialization of one-attribute roles working ($thingy does Answer(42)).
15:39 dalek diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn​/parrot/revision?rev=28549
15:40 cjfields today must be Rakudo day for jonathan
15:40 jonathan OK, aside from parameterized roles, I think that must be "does" done.
15:40 jonathan cjfields: Yup. It's tended to be Thursdays of late. :-)
15:41 cjfields jonathan++
15:42 japhb (backlogging) I for one am happy to have ops that handle branch/ret as push/pop on a user provided (and user-manipulable) integer array.  It makes implementing Forth more fun.  :-)
15:42 Whiteknight yeah, it should help with hll tail-call optimizations too
15:57 jonathan pmichaud: ping
15:59 jonathan pmichaud: Or, for when you're around: in variable_decl, it says "# XXX let EXPR handle this automatically until we can pass arguments" - it looks like we are doing something like this on, say, rule default_value today, though.
15:59 jonathan I'm not looking to do this today, but it would clear some stuff up and make initial values for attributes a load easier to do.
16:06 dalek r28550 | Whiteknight++ | trunk:
16:06 dalek : [docs] more updates to memory_internals.pod. Update date and version number
16:06 dalek diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn​/parrot/revision?rev=28550
16:12 Infinoid Subject: Sorry, you didn't win: Larry Wall action figure (130231457282)
16:14 szbalint cruel, cruel world
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16:24 DietCoke pmichaud: I have concerns about being able to use PCT at all for tcl. I started a list of concerns/ideas/whatever, and will want to bounce them off you before I do anything serious.
16:26 DietCoke I think to do this, I'd need to potentially redefine the grammar on the fly, and potentially re-PCT subroutines at runtime.
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16:35 dalek r28551 | jonathan++ | trunk:
16:35 dalek : [rakudo] Get lookup of subs with & sigil working again, so we can do &foo.arity. Do this in a way that should work once we add lexical subs.
16:35 dalek diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn​/parrot/revision?rev=28551
16:35 _shane Does anyone know the URL for the Perl6/parrot talks given by pmichaud at YAPC?
16:36 cjfields http://www.pmichaud.com/2008/pres/yapc-rakudo/
16:36 cjfields http://www.pmichaud.com/2008/pres/yapc-pct/
16:36 _shane Thanks.. I just found it also.  Go figure, its linked off the YAPC page ;-)
16:51 NotFound Can someone take a look at my last patch in #39930 ?
16:51 * DietCoke thinks the list just unclogged.
16:57 DietCoke jonathan: how are you doing the sub lookup so &foo and foo both work?
16:57 Whiteknight yeah, i got a flood of emails
16:59 jonathan DietCoke: When someone writes &foo, we whip the & off.
17:00 confound flog the &
17:01 DietCoke jonathan: bah!
17:01 DietCoke in tcl, when someone calls foo, I add the foo on!
17:01 DietCoke How do you store variables in the same namespace, then?
17:01 DietCoke er, I add the -&- on.
17:01 jonathan Variables have sigils.
17:01 DietCoke ... so do subs. =-)
17:01 jonathan Everything gets sigils apart from subs, or so it currently seems to be.
17:02 DietCoke Ok. that's something we should eventually reconcile.
17:02 jonathan We're generating .sub 'foo' rather than .sub '&foo'...thus it's kinda ended up that way.
17:03 Infinoid hmm, looks like RT#56052 is my fault.
17:03 DietCoke Infinoid--
17:03 Infinoid what's the minimum recommended version of perl for building Parrot with?
17:03 DietCoke 5.8
17:03 DietCoke .0
17:04 Infinoid well, looks like 5.8.0 doesn't work because of a broken Storable.pm
17:04 DietCoke does 5.8.1 work?
17:04 DietCoke If so, we can bump.
17:04 Infinoid dunno.  I suppose we could also fall back on YAML.
17:05 DietCoke if you mean in an "change it over to yaml", sure.
17:05 DietCoke (I'd rather have as few fallbacks as possible. too much code to maintain.)
17:05 dalek r28552 | jonathan++ | trunk:
17:05 dalek : [rakudo] Allow declaration of type variables with the :: sigil; Now 'my ::Foo = Int; my Foo $x; say $x.WHAT' gives Int.
17:05 dalek diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn​/parrot/revision?rev=28552
17:06 Infinoid this pertains to a change I checked in a while back, to use Storable instead of Data::Dumper for pmc2c, which sped builds up quite a lot.  I'd prefer to keep using Storable when possible, because it is the fastest option I know of.
17:07 Infinoid maybe if I dig enough, I can find a way to keep 5.8.0's Storable happy without having to switch to another (slower) serialization format.
17:10 dalek r28553 | coke++ | trunk:
17:10 dalek : #56102: Fwd: [PATCH] add git-svn instructions to gettingstarted.pod
17:10 dalek : Courtesy Hans Dieter Pearcey <hdp.parrot.porters at weftsoar.net>
17:10 dalek :   from YAPC::NA 2008
17:10 dalek diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn​/parrot/revision?rev=28553
17:15 confound oh good, it finally went through
17:15 DietCoke Infinoid: if 5.8.1 fixes the issue, let's just bump.
17:16 DietCoke 5.8.0 just turned six yesterday. =-)
17:17 DietCoke In any case, please reply to the ticket with your guess about 5.8.0
17:17 Infinoid first I wanna find out if it's really 5.8.0's fault, or if something changed recently in pmc2c to make our data less serializable.
17:17 DietCoke of course.
17:18 * DietCoke sees jim is claiming the OK reports, excellent, one less thing for me!
17:18 Infinoid I've claimed and replied to the Storable ticket.  hopefully later today I'll have a chance to install 5.8.0 on something for testing
17:19 DietCoke Deven++
17:19 DietCoke Infinoid++
17:19 DietCoke I think there's an older storable ticket, too.
17:19 DietCoke 49832: [BUG] Storable error during build (0.5.2) in MacosX
17:19 DietCoke 56052: Storable issue
17:20 DietCoke if you could check the older one, too, that'd be awesome.
17:20 Khisanth if it's just Storable why not just bump the version for that instead of perl?
17:20 Infinoid possibly just add it to Bundle::Parrot
17:20 NotFound There is also a message on the mailing list without ticket.
17:20 Infinoid there's also a list posting about this from Bob Rogers dated 2007-09-01 11:37
17:21 Infinoid NotFound: that one? :)
17:21 NotFound Infinoid: Did you read my mind? ;)
17:21 Infinoid NotFound: only if the "search" field in my email client is hooked up to your mind somehow :)
17:22 confound terrifying
17:22 Infinoid and, apparently, perl-5.8.1 does not fix it.
17:22 NotFound Pesky search methods, they all work same way.
17:23 DietCoke packy++
17:23 DietCoke Khisanth: to keep the build prereqs simple.
17:24 DietCoke but it's moot, so never mind.
17:26 Infinoid DietCoke: can Bundle::Parrot help this somehow?
17:29 smash bbl
17:30 DietCoke Infinoid: Theoretically, we could be putting any dependencies required for building parrot in there.
17:30 DietCoke but at the moment, we're trying to balance between -requiring- that, just using core versions of things, and including the versions directly in the repo.
17:31 DietCoke (T:H3 is probably just going to go in the repo)
17:31 DietCoke HA!
17:31 DietCoke "
17:31 DietCoke I also had success with LOLCODE."
17:31 DietCoke (RT#56026)
17:32 Infinoid Storable has an XS component, which means putting it directly in the repo will complicate things.
17:32 DietCoke yah, that's bad.
17:32 DietCoke Is there a version of 5.8.x in which a fixed version is bundled?
17:32 Infinoid I know 5.8.8's version is, but you're probably looking for a lower number
17:32 DietCoke well, the lower the better, yes.
17:33 rindolf joined #parrot
17:33 rindolf Hi all.
17:33 DietCoke Can you find out which one it is, then reply to the ticket on the list with that as a potential option?
17:33 DietCoke rindolf: hey
17:33 Infinoid without actually installing them all, I can probably answer that by just looking at the sources
17:33 rindolf Hi DietCoke
17:33 rindolf what's up?
17:33 DietCoke <shrug>
17:37 DietCoke digging through the flood of tickets that just made it to the list.
17:37 DietCoke trying to figure out how to run tcl using the parrot compiler toolkit.
17:40 _shane I'm trying to get my head around the compiler toolkit.
17:41 Infinoid I'll have to test it to make sure, but it looks like 5.8.4 is the first perl which was bundled with a non-broken Storable.
17:41 * Tene again tries to find where the perl rt is.
17:41 Tene ah, rt.perl.org
17:41 DietCoke rt?
17:41 DietCoke ENOPURL
17:58 Whiteknight yeah, purl's on vacation, apparently
18:00 Whiteknight a good week to go, i think
18:10 ambs joined #parrot
18:16 ruoso joined #parrot
18:21 dalek r28554 | fperrad++ | libs4php:
18:21 dalek : [php] link std skeletons
18:21 dalek diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn​/parrot/revision?rev=28554
18:22 Infinoid every week is a good week for vacation!
18:44 dalek r28555 | jonathan++ | trunk:
18:44 dalek : [rakudo] Implement generic subs/methods. You can now collect the type of a parameter by writing a signature like 'sub foo(::T $x) { ... }', and then use T within that method to refer to that type.
18:44 dalek diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn​/parrot/revision?rev=28555
18:46 * DietCoke rants about bf.
18:46 DietCoke http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parser_Grammar_Engine has an image with that language's name spelled out in it.
18:47 Tene DietCoke: what's the rant?
18:47 DietCoke "owever, obtaining and compiling parrot is a daunting task for most inexperienced users." ... This from a blog entry about PUGS in 2006. ... pot, kettle, black. =-)
18:48 DietCoke tene: I'm sure we could avoid using curse words on pages that I'd like to be able to let my kids read to learn about computer science.
18:48 Tene ... oh.  okay.
18:48 rindolf Hi Tene
18:48 DietCoke HA. and the image was uploaded by user "mugwumpjism".
18:49 * DietCoke grumbles.
18:49 Tene hi rindolf
18:49 NotFound DietCoke: Did you mean like "inexperienced users"?
18:49 DietCoke NotFound: ?
18:49 DietCoke (isn't that what the quote said?)
18:50 NotFound DietCoke: words you don't want your children to see.
18:50 DietCoke ... no.
18:50 Eevee so many potential jokes
18:51 Eevee http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki​/Talk:Parser_Grammar_Engine  uh, what?
18:52 DietCoke Eevee: odd. I added a comment contradicting that.
19:01 Eevee was added by bots with no explanation of why
19:05 Limbic_Region joined #parrot
19:07 DietCoke Limbic_Region: hio
19:07 Limbic_Region salutations
19:07 Limbic_Region did you make the taxi?
19:07 rindolf Hi Limbic_Region
19:07 Limbic_Region salutations rindolf
19:08 rindolf Limbic_Region: new essay - http://www.shlomifish.org/philosophy/phil​osophy/closed-books-are-so-19th-century/
19:08 shorten rindolf's url is at http://xrl.us/bk5ui
19:08 rindolf Limbic_Region: I wonder if it's OSnews.com material.
19:09 * Limbic_Region is still recovering from YAPC::NA and not up to reading anything other than the comics
19:12 rindolf Limbic_Region: ah.
19:12 rindolf Limbic_Region: did you enjoy YAPC::NA?
19:12 Limbic_Region I did - very much so
19:12 rindolf I wonder why CPAN.pm (latest) does not handle my Module::Build-modules properly.
19:13 Limbic_Region I will blog about it in a day or two when I have recovered fully
19:13 rindolf Limbic_Region: ah.
19:13 rindolf Limbic_Region: on use.perl.org?
19:13 Limbic_Region probably
19:13 Limbic_Region in any event
19:13 * Limbic_Region AFK & # Dr. Who
19:16 szbalint I kind of agree with the essay, I've always felt that closed books are an outdated method. Most of it stems from the bigger scope of problems with copyright.
19:17 NotFound ../../parrot  -o perl6.pbc perl6.pir | error:imcc:syntax error, unexpected VAR, expecting '(' ('var') |         in file 'src/gen_builtins.pir' line 7731 |        included from 'perl6.pir' line 1
19:17 szbalint This is the reason I don't own technically oriented books.
19:20 rindolf szbalint: I'm glad you do.
19:21 szbalint The irony is that if more books would be available for free linking and reuse, I'd buy quite a few of them in deadtree form.
19:21 radhios joined #parrot
19:25 jonathan NotFound: Is that on svn head?
19:25 jonathan Also, make makefile - maybe the dynops aren't built.
19:26 NotFound jonathan: just up to 28555 now, retesting.
19:27 rindolf Hi jonathan
19:27 jonathan rindolf: Hi :-)
19:28 rindolf jonathan: remember me from Israel?
19:29 dalek r28556 | fperrad++ | libs4php:
19:29 dalek : [php] add specific types
19:29 dalek diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn​/parrot/revision?rev=28556
19:29 jonathan rindolf: Yes, I remember.
19:30 rindolf jonathan: OK.
19:30 jonathan It was good to attend the workshop and visit Israel.
19:30 rindolf jonathan: yes.
19:30 jonathan Hopefully I will do it again some day.
19:30 rindolf I hope we have a full-fledged OSDC sometimes later.
19:30 rindolf But szabgab is busy.
19:31 jonathan Sure - these things take much effort/time to organize.
19:37 rindolf jonathan: the organisers of the next August Penguin are not sharing too much with me.
19:37 rindolf jonathan: and I'm the webmaster.
19:37 rindolf jonathan: I'm unhappy with the current Hamakor (the Israeli FOSS NPO) board.
19:38 dalek r28557 | fperrad++ | libs4php:
19:38 dalek : [php] base64 functions
19:38 dalek diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn​/parrot/revision?rev=28557
19:39 davidfetter joined #parrot
19:39 Zaba_ joined #parrot
19:44 dalek r28558 | fperrad++ | libs4php:
19:44 dalek : [php] strlen function
19:44 dalek diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn​/parrot/revision?rev=28558
19:50 dalek r28559 | fperrad++ | libs4php:
19:50 dalek : [php] gettype function
19:50 dalek diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn​/parrot/revision?rev=28559
19:52 NotFound jonathan: still fails. Where must I execute "make makefile" ?
19:53 dalek r28560 | fperrad++ | libs4php:
19:53 dalek : [php] rand functions
19:53 dalek diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn​/parrot/revision?rev=28560
19:54 davidfetter joined #parrot
19:57 Zaba joined #parrot
19:59 Auzon joined #parrot
19:59 dalek r28561 | fperrad++ | libs4php:
19:59 dalek : [php] ctype functions
19:59 dalek diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn​/parrot/revision?rev=28561
20:01 jonathan NotFound: Inside languages/perl6
20:01 DietCoke PCT question for somebody. =-)
20:01 NotFound It says that there is not such target.
20:02 DietCoke PCT: in tcl, [puts] has the following syntax: ?-nonewline? ?channelId? string
20:02 DietCoke so with a simple one arg form, it's pretty easy to figure out what's what.
20:02 jonathan oh
20:02 jonathan make Makefile
20:03 jonathan You have one of those case-sensitive OSes, I guess. ;-)
20:03 DietCoke with a 2 arg form, you have to check to see what the first arg is to figure out what to do. Is there a way for me to: 1) do that conditionally, and 2) dynamically? [set foo -nonewline; puts $foo {hello, world}]?
20:04 dalek r28562 | fperrad++ | libs4php:
20:04 dalek : [php] md5 functions
20:04 dalek diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn​/parrot/revision?rev=28562
20:05 NotFound It says Makefile is up to date
20:06 DietCoke might need to touch the config .in file
20:07 purl joined #parrot
20:07 jonathan NotFound: Well, nuclear option is make realclean. :-)
20:07 Auzon purl, you're back!
20:07 purl Auzon: huh?
20:07 dalek r28563 | jonathan++ | trunk:
20:07 dalek : [rakudo] Improvements/optimizations to rebless_subclass op from chromatic++.
20:07 dalek diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn​/parrot/revision?rev=28563
20:07 NotFound jonathan: one more time?
20:08 jonathan I would have thought make Makefile would do it - if Coke's suggestion doesn't work, suggest just trying a make clean or even make realclean.
20:09 jonathan It's almost certainly the dynops addition, and that they're not being built.
20:10 NotFound I've already deleted the perl6 Makefile, done a make realclean at parrot root dir, and make all.
20:10 jonathan And it didn't work?
20:10 purl That's because you can't just stick someone else's code into your program and expect it to do what you want, Retardo!
20:10 NotFound jonathan: same problem
20:10 purl well, same problem is what killed killtrac
20:10 jonathan ....we missed purl?
20:11 NotFound I will do another try: realclean and rebuild all with LANG=C
20:11 pjcj joined #parrot
20:11 Zaba_ joined #parrot
20:12 jonathan NotFound: OK. Most likely it is to do with the dynops.
20:12 NotFound jonathan: I tend to suspect of some unicode and locale related problem.
20:12 jonathan Do you can see them being built at all when makeing perl6?
20:13 NotFound Scrolled up, can't see.
20:14 DietCoke jonathan: you need to add an extension on the copy.
20:14 DietCoke (I think)
20:14 DietCoke you're copying "perl6", and probably need src/ops/perl6_ops$(LOAD_EXT)
20:15 DietCoke ... I lie, tcl doesn't do that.
20:15 DietCoke <shrug> you're on your own. =-)
20:16 jonathan Heh
20:16 jonathan I virtually copied it from the dotnet makefile
20:17 jonathan Which I'm sure I've built on a couple of platforms.
20:17 DietCoke that hasn't worked in some time, has it? =-)
20:17 jonathan Dunno.
20:17 jonathan I didn't know it to be broken.
20:17 NotFound Don't know, I like stereo better than mono.
20:17 jonathan But I haven't really been keeping an eye on it.
20:20 jonathan Trying a build on linux to see if I can produce the failure there.
20:22 NotFound Same problem with LANG=C
20:25 paco same here ? error:imcc:syntax error, unexpected VAR, expecting '(' ('var')
20:26 NotFound Funny, after deleting all .o and .so in src/ops it builds.
20:28 jonathan OK, I can reproduce it on Linux from a clean build now... Hmm.
20:28 jonathan So, platform specific fun.
20:30 NotFound I don't see  OPSDIR entries in CLEANUPS
20:30 davidfetter joined #parrot
20:31 jonathan Ah.
20:31 jonathan OK, that's it. D'oh.
20:36 NotFound I don't understadn why it fails, anyway. In my case it can be caused for previous builds with g++, but for paco it failed just by rebuilding with a utf8 locale.
20:36 Juerd /lh 3
20:36 Juerd s/.*//
20:43 jonathan NotFound: OK, I've just put in a patch that adds ops to the cleanup.
20:43 dalek r28564 | jonathan++ | trunk:
20:43 dalek : [rakudo] Add ops to CLEANUP.
20:43 dalek diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn​/parrot/revision?rev=28564
20:46 NotFound jonathan: ok, now it builds all after make clean
20:47 jonathan OK, looks like that's what it was.
20:47 paco seems to work OK now
20:47 jonathan D'oh. :-$.
21:00 dalek r28565 | fperrad++ | libs4php:
21:00 dalek : [php] move php_sapi_name
21:00 dalek diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn​/parrot/revision?rev=28565
21:10 NotFound jonathan: works also in my other machine.
21:12 slightlyoff joined #parrot
21:13 jonathan NotFound: OK, great - thanks for testing.
21:14 jonathan Sorry for the mess.
21:15 NotFound jonathan: I spend some thinking that was the fault of the patch I was tring, but I won't kill you... this time ;)
21:15 NotFound some time
21:15 * jonathan backs off with a terrified look
21:21 Zaba joined #parrot
21:26 Whiteknight what's the status of the BigNum library?
21:28 donaldh joined #parrot
21:29 dalek r28566 | fperrad++ | libs4php:
21:29 dalek : [php] move var_dump
21:29 dalek diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn​/parrot/revision?rev=28566
21:35 mire joined #parrot
21:43 japhb DietCoke: The content of the image on the PGE Wikipedia page is out of date anyway; it refers to TGE in several places, and never NQP
21:44 japhb Someone with mad graphic artist skillz should probably replace it -- which person is not me.
21:54 Whiteknight I could take a stab at that, I'm almost competent with Inkscape
21:55 slightlyoff joined #parrot
21:56 slightlyoff left #parrot
21:56 dalek r28567 | jonathan++ | trunk:
21:56 dalek : [rakudo] First cut at implementing anonymous enums.
21:56 dalek diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn​/parrot/revision?rev=28567
22:02 japhb Whiteknight: that would be cool, thank you
22:05 * jonathan notices it's midnight, so he should probably stop coding now and write up the day's report.
22:08 Whiteknight I need to figure out what the image should be changed to show? We remove TGE, Add NQP -> PAST, anything else big need to be added?
22:10 jonathan Whiteknight: there's an up to date description of the steps (diagram too, but not a pretty one) in any of my recent slides where I talked about PCT, such as
22:10 jonathan http://www.jnthn.net/papers/2008-us-pct-slides.pdf
22:10 Whiteknight excellent, I'll rip them off cold
22:10 Whiteknight ...I mean "borrow" them
22:10 Zaba_ joined #parrot
22:12 jonathan ;-)
22:13 jonathan I'm not a pretty guy, so I'm sure you can improve on my diagram some.
22:13 jonathan Erm, I meant, I'm not a guy who is good at making things look pretty...
22:13 Whiteknight I'm no artist myself, so I'll do what modest little bit I can
22:14 Whiteknight and i'm sure you're plenty attractive :)
22:17 gryphon joined #parrot
22:17 vhold joined #parrot
22:22 AndyA joined #parrot
22:27 teknomunk joined #parrot
22:31 Auzon joined #parrot
22:38 dalek r28568 | Whiteknight++ | gsoc_pdd09:
22:38 dalek : [gsoc_pdd09] Added some function-level documentation to the new GC, and fixed a few bugs I found while documenting.
22:38 dalek diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn​/parrot/revision?rev=28568
22:41 TiMBuS joined #parrot
22:44 cjfields left #parrot
23:01 Zaba joined #parrot
23:13 jonathan http://use.perl.org/~Jonath​anWorthington/journal/36731 # report
23:14 jimk joined #parrot
23:25 GeJ joined #parrot
23:30 PerlJam jonathan++
23:44 kid51 joined #parrot
23:48 Maghnus joined #parrot
23:51 bacek joined #parrot

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