Camelia, the Perl 6 bug

IRC log for #parrot, 2008-06-20

Parrot | source cross referenced

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Time Nick Message
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00:17 kid51 I think perl.org is having problems.
00:19 Maghnus What kind of problems? (I just connected)
00:20 PerlJam which perl.org?  www.perl.org seems fine
00:22 Whiteknight yeah, it loaded up fine for me
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01:35 dalek r28569 | chromatic++ | trunk:
01:35 dalek : [IMCC] Tidied code; improved documentation.
01:35 dalek diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn​/parrot/revision?rev=28569
01:36 dalek r28570 | chromatic++ | trunk:
01:36 dalek : [IMCC] Tidied code; improved documentation.
01:36 dalek diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn​/parrot/revision?rev=28570
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02:22 Limbic_Region lseen chromatic
02:22 Limbic_Region seen chromatic
02:22 purl chromatic was last seen on #parrot 2 days and 5 hours ago, saying: 64-bit Fedora?  [Jun 17 14:02:10 2008]
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07:20 cotto_yapc perl6: say $_ for 1..5;
07:20 polyglotbot OUTPUT[too few arguments passed (0) - 1 params expected␤current instr.: '_block11' pc 0 (EVAL_12:3)␤called from Sub 'parrot;PCT::HLLCompiler;eval' pc 806 (src/PCT/HLLCompiler.pir:469)␤called from Sub 'parrot;PCT::HLLCompiler;evalfiles' pc 1088 (src/PCT/HLLCompiler.pir:598)␤called from Sub
07:20 polyglotbot ..'parrot;PCT::HLLCompiler;command_line' pc 1267 (src/PCT/H...
07:20 moritz perl6: for 1..5 { say $_ }
07:20 polyglotbot OUTPUT[1␤2␤3␤4␤5␤]
07:21 moritz for statement modifier doesn't create an implicit block in rakudo
07:21 moritz and $_ at the top level block is b0rked
07:21 cotto_yapc thanks
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09:16 dalek r28571 | bernhard++ | trunk:
09:16 dalek : Remove trailing whitespace.
09:16 dalek diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn​/parrot/revision?rev=28571
09:30 TiMBuS heh, recursive functions dont work out so well if you implement functions as inline
09:36 dalek r28572 | bernhard++ | trunk:
09:36 dalek : [Plumhead]
09:36 dalek : Switched the PCT variant over from TGE to NQP actions.
09:36 dalek : Simplify the parsing grammar and the NQP actions.
09:36 dalek diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn​/parrot/revision?rev=28572
09:41 * barney is checking out the libs4php branch
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10:32 dalek r28573 | bernhard++ | trunk:
10:32 dalek : [Plumhead]
10:32 dalek : Merge in the 'libs4php' branch by fperrad++.
10:32 dalek : Skip the test files with failures.
10:32 dalek diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn​/parrot/revision?rev=28573
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12:42 TiMBuS is there any way to make a temp var in PAST without naming it? at the moment im using lexically scoped vars inside blocks but its terribly inefficient
12:43 TiMBuS its a list/resizablepmcarray so i cant just nest it, because i need to push things onto it
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12:49 TiMBuS http://rafb.net/p/1fmyug10.html thats my current action. its not great but i cant seem to think of how to fix it. i dont think PAST was really designed to work like this
12:50 TiMBuS wow that site uses large tab indentation
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13:06 kj TiMBuS: what do you try to do?
13:06 kj not sure, but if you want to create a list, you could use the parrot calling conventions for that
13:07 kj check out how it's done in languages/squaak (and pynie does it too I think)
13:07 TiMBuS well my current convention works fine it just creates a whole lotta useless subs
13:08 TiMBuS which creates a whole lotta useless overhead when the language pretty much runs on lists
13:08 kj ok. but you're trying to create a list object with values inside?
13:08 TiMBuS yes
13:08 TiMBuS [1 2 [3 4 +]] etc
13:08 kj ok, then it's much easier to take advantage of the built-in calling conventions
13:08 kj of parrot
13:08 kj check out languages/squaak, and the creation of arrays. It's really easy
13:09 kj and short
13:09 kj and efficient, as it's implemented in C
13:09 TiMBuS i did look at squaak's one but i only say it implement keyed arrays
13:10 kj but [1 2 3 4] creates a list with [0] = 1, [1] = 2 etc, right?
13:10 TiMBuS yes
13:11 kj so, when creating a PAST for that, just create a PAST::Op( :pasttype('call'), :name('@some_array_constructor_pir_sub') )
13:11 kj and push the PAST  nodes for 1, 2, 3 and 4 as children on that PAST::Op, so they're passed as arguments
13:11 kj and the @some_array-constructor_pir_sub should take a :slurpy argument, which will be a ResizablePMCArray
13:12 kj which you then just return (or if you want to convert it into soething different, do it there, and return that)
13:13 TiMBuS wow, didnt even think of making a pir sub to do it for me
13:15 kj neat huh? :-)
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13:18 TiMBuS there should be a 'makearray' method on array pmc's
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13:31 TiMBuS wow
13:31 dalek bernhard.schmalhofer@gmx.de | Plumhead:
13:31 dalek link: http://www.perlfoundation.or​g/parrot/index.cgi?plumhead
13:32 TiMBuS so that worked way too easy
13:32 TiMBuS now to turn pretty much the entire stack generation code into the same thing
13:34 dalek r28574 | bernhard++ | trunk:
13:34 dalek : [Plumhead]
13:34 dalek : Unskip the failing tests and mark them as TODO instead.
13:34 dalek diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn​/parrot/revision?rev=28574
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13:43 dalek r28575 | Whiteknight++ | gsoc_pdd09:
13:43 dalek : [gsoc_pdd09] update to trunk r28574
13:43 dalek diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn​/parrot/revision?rev=28575
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13:51 DietCoke Aigh. Left my notes regarding tcl on pct that I wrote on the plane in my bag again.
13:51 * DietCoke wanted to get that email out to patrick today.
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13:57 DietCoke seen pmichaud?
13:57 purl pmichaud was last seen on #parrot 2 days and 19 hours ago, saying: RakudoRuby?  RakudoPHP?  [Jun 17 12:12:23 2008]
14:01 DietCoke is there a way at the moment to -declare- code should be run before an existing invoke? I am expecting I'd need to inject some code into the beginning of my sub by hand.
14:03 dalek r28576 | bernhard++ | trunk:
14:03 dalek : [Plumhead (Pipit)]
14:03 dalek : Rename Plumhead.pg to grammar.pg as in most other PCT based languages
14:03 dalek diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn​/parrot/revision?rev=28576
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14:10 DietCoke mdiep?
14:10 purl mdiep is Matt Diephouse <mailto:matt@diephouse.com> http://matt.diephouse.com/parrot or .
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14:25 Whiteknight DietCoke, you can use an inline PIR node to write the code you want inserted, and when you process a subroutine make sure to push that in to the sub's node first
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14:45 DietCoke Whiteknight: well, I'm used to writing ONLY handrolled pir, so that sounds plausible. =-)
14:50 DietCoke Whiteknight: i was wondering more from the PIR level, though, not PCT.
14:50 DietCoke for example, given an existing entry in an namespace, can I say "whenever someone tries to invoke this, invoke this other thing first."
14:56 TiMBuS function hooks
15:04 jhorwitz DietCoke:  i have code that resolves subs in interpolated namespaces before calling them.  it's for rakudo, so it's PCT, but all the execution happens at runtime.
15:04 jhorwitz it uses the method Whiteknight was talking about
15:06 DietCoke yes, but you need to build in that support at -compile- time, neh?
15:06 DietCoke which doesn't work for pre-existing subs.
15:06 DietCoke -> meeting
15:07 jhorwitz DietCoke: right.
15:11 davidfetter re
15:14 * jhorwitz waves at davidfetter
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15:15 davidfetter what's new & good, jhorwitz ?
15:16 jhorwitz my flight out of o'hare was on time yesterday.  miracles can happen.
15:16 davidfetter so was mine. can't say the same about the one out of denver
15:16 davidfetter but my upgrades came through :)
15:17 jhorwitz sweet
15:17 davidfetter yeah, they have nice seats
15:24 toddr joined #parrot
15:30 Tene jhorwitz: I'll be in PHL tomorrow and sunday, and in KoP until the next Friday.
15:30 jhorwitz Tene: oh yeah
15:31 jhorwitz i'm putting up adam kennedy for a few nights.  PHL.pm is likely having a dinner monday or tues night if you'd like to attend.
15:32 Tene I might.
15:32 jhorwitz but i'm up for dinner/beer in KOP too.  :)
15:34 Whiteknight KOP? that's right in my back yard
15:34 DietCoke thank adam for the picture he took with my iphone. =-)
15:34 Tene adam kennedy?
15:34 purl somebody said adam kennedy was Alias or ADAMK or http://search.cpan.org/~adamk/
15:34 Tene Ah.
15:34 davidfetter blueberry?
15:34 purl hmmm... blueberry is CanyonMAD's favorite pie.
15:34 Tene purl++
15:34 DietCoke strawberry?
15:34 purl i guess strawberry is a Perl for Windows that works just like Perl everywhere else. See http://win32.perl.org/wiki/in​dex.php?title=Strawberry_Perl
15:35 jhorwitz yeah, sometimes i forget to use his, um, alias.  :)
15:36 DietCoke I didn't know that was he.
15:36 DietCoke (until yapc)
15:36 DietCoke er, he was him?
15:37 * DietCoke barbies, "Grammar is Haaaard".
15:37 Tene This might be an interesting trip.  I found out on monday that I might suddenly not have a place to stay for tonight and tomorrow.
15:37 jhorwitz LOL
15:37 DietCoke tene: uhoh.
15:38 jhorwitz worst case, i have a second bed in the guest room.
15:38 Tene Eh, I think I have some relatives near there I can harass.
15:38 Tene Thanks for the offer.  I'll keep it in mind.  :)
15:38 Tene Oops, boardingnow.
15:38 DietCoke alias++ # my stupid perl app works on windows, it seems.
15:52 Zaba joined #parrot
16:05 pmichaud generic pong
16:06 * jhorwitz waves at pmichaud
16:08 dalek r28577 | pmichaud++ | trunk:
16:08 dalek : [rakudo]:
16:08 dalek : * Update spectest-progress.csv (65 files, 792 passing)
16:08 dalek diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn​/parrot/revision?rev=28577
16:22 DietCoke pmichaud: pong.
16:22 DietCoke Infinoid: you wrote an svn-bisect tool, right?
16:23 Infinoid yeah, I did
16:23 DietCoke ah, there it is. cpan was sucking for a moment.
16:24 Infinoid I've got some outstanding todos for that tool, should have a new release out this weekend if I can find a spare timeslice
16:26 DietCoke I'm updating my module (now that jerry's an author and someone is watching). wanted to make sure that I pointed to your module in the SEE ALSO.
16:28 Infinoid awesome.  I will reciprocate, thanks for the reminder.
16:29 pmichaud DietCoke: got your message re: tcl on pct -- will be looking at it in detail in a bit
16:29 pmichaud (trying to catch up on messages from yesterday)
16:29 pmichaud wifi at iit was just about useless for me yesterday morning, and the rest of the day was mostly travel-related stuff.
16:29 pmichaud this morning I have $otherjob things to take care of :-|
16:30 jonathan pmichaud: I got a couple of things done yesterday, just roles and types things plus a bit of refactoring to improve the code. That's breif summary. :-)
16:30 pmichaud jonathan: yes, I read the details and looked at the diffs already.  Very impressive work.
16:30 jonathan Hopefully, it's correct too. :)
16:30 pmichaud I'm very happy to see  ::T  implemented.
16:31 pmichaud most of what I saw looked quite sane (and cleaned up some cruftiness from before) so I'm pretty comfortable with these patches.
16:31 jonathan It's one of the many things leading to parametric roles.
16:31 pmichaud one question -- did the dynop really need to be a dynop?  Could it have been a method?
16:32 jonathan Got some of how to do that worked out. Other bits, I still need the "bingo" moment.
16:32 jonathan Method on?
16:32 pmichaud I dunno
16:32 jonathan It needs writing in C.
16:32 pmichaud methods can be written in C
16:32 jonathan Yeah, I didn't know either, thus why it felt more op-ish.
16:32 pmichaud perhaps Class
16:33 Zaba what's ::T?
16:33 jonathan Hmmm. Maybe, but the point is that it's an operation on an object rather than a class - it's changing the object's class.
16:33 pmichaud I know that for many other things  (e.g., "add_parent") we do them as methods, so I'm wondering why this one wouldn't fit that model.
16:34 jonathan Zaba: sub foo(::T $x) { ... } # you can now use T in the sub anywhere you'd use a type, and it's same type as $x had
16:34 pmichaud I'm fine with the dynop -- I'm just thinking in terms of other similar features.
16:34 Zaba ah, so like C++ templates? :>
16:34 jonathan In that both provide ways to do parametric polymorphism, yes.
16:35 jonathan (parametric polymorphism aka parameterized types aka generics...)
16:35 pmichaud I think the feature should ultimately reside in the Parrot core, and I have a feeling that it's easier to justify as a method than as an opcode.
16:35 pmichaud (but yes, the question of "method on what" still remains.)
16:35 pmichaud anyway, fantastic work.  I am truly impressed.
16:36 jonathan Knowing the object model guts kinda helped. ;-)
16:36 pmichaud yes, but also getting it into the actions.pm and other compiler components is also a significant part of it.
16:36 * Zaba svn ups
16:37 jonathan Yeah. It's was amongst the trickier stuff that I've put in.
16:37 jonathan Parametric roles will be harder still, mind.
16:38 Zaba parametric roles?
16:38 pmichaud (harder still)   well, that's why I'm glad you're here.  :-)
16:38 jonathan role Foo[::TypeParam, ::Another] { ... }
16:38 Zaba ah
16:38 Zaba can classes be like that too?
16:39 jonathan No, just roles.
16:39 Zaba why not classes?
16:39 jonathan <implementers hat on> because the spec doesn't say you can do it for classes
16:39 Zaba so for each class that takes a parameter I will need to make a role?
16:40 jonathan Well, you specify the parameters as you compose it into a class
16:40 Zaba *marketing mode on* so implement it as an extension to the standard, so more people will use rakudo! *hides*
16:41 pmichaud "implement as extension"  -->  "create a module for"    :-)
16:41 jonathan Zaba: I don't really have a Good Answer to your question, right now - I'll think on it some.
16:41 jonathan Of course, perl6-langauge is the best place for "why is Perl 6 the way it is" style questions.
16:41 pmichaud one nice thing about Perl 6 is that "embrace and extend" is a part of the language itself.  :-)
16:41 Zaba pmichaud, nono, it must be hardcoded, enforced and warned about if not used! *hides further*
16:42 jonathan warn "OMG you didn't use parameteric polymorphism in your program you're doing it wrong n00b!"
16:42 Zaba exactly :>
16:42 Zaba pmichaud, yeah, it's a nice feature indeed
16:42 Zaba but it can lead to confusion when overused..
16:43 pmichaud well, it's "embrace and extend" with good boundaries.  :-)
16:43 Zaba it's like with perl5, I guess. Niceness of the code entirely depends on the coder :>
16:44 pmichaud somewhat, but perl6 has better fences.
16:44 pmichaud ("strong fences make good neighbors")
16:44 Zaba it's harder to write obfuscated code in perl6
16:45 _shane If I am trying to get started helping with parrot, what exactly should I be doing?  I'm very interested after attending yapc.
16:45 pmichaud _shane:  are you interested more specifically in parrot or in perl 6?
16:45 _shane More parrot.
16:46 * jhorwitz was hoping for mod_parrot.  :)
16:46 pmichaud heh
16:46 _shane But whereever help is needed, I'd love to lend a hand.
16:46 pmichaud I'm thinking about a journal post on mod_lightning.  That was still very cool.
16:46 _shane The main thing I understood is you need tests writen?
16:47 jhorwitz spread the hype, pmichaud.  :)
16:47 _shane That seems the most accessible for a newbie to the project?
16:47 pmichaud jhorwitz: are you attending yapc::eu?  and if not, perhaps I could present mod_lightning there?
16:47 jhorwitz no, i'm not at YAPC::EU
16:47 pmichaud perl 6 needs tests, yes.  parrot can also use tests, definitely.
16:47 pmichaud _shane: what sort of C background do you have?
16:47 jhorwitz you could present mod_lightning -- i have notes i made for myself so you can do it too.  :)
16:48 _shane pmichaud: I've coded a bunch of things in C, but never anything beyond a hash tree.  It's not something I code with on a daily basis.
16:49 pmichaud _shane: I'd be interested in seeing someone pick up the new implementation of Parrot strings
16:49 pmichaud but my guess is that we should get you with chromatic, allison, particle, or DietCoke as far as where Parrot could use the most help right now
16:49 pmichaud oh!
16:49 pmichaud you could always search the RT queue for tickets (especially those marked "[CAGE]")
16:50 pmichaud that's also a good place to get started
16:50 _shane OK.
16:50 * Zaba has more C++ experience than C
16:50 * Zaba wrote a few patches to one C++ program :>
16:50 pmichaud the [CAGE] tickets are parrot cleanup efforts -- places where we know that the code needs some improvement but no real functional change.
16:50 _shane That sounds like my style.
16:50 jonathan It's a good way to get to know the codebase.
16:51 _shane Yeah.
16:51 pmichaud Yes.  NotFound++ started by doing some cleanups and has been submitting some very useful/important improvements to Parrot
16:51 jonathan Indeed. I'd be very happy to see more of that. :-)
16:53 jonathan OK, time for me to go study some Slovak, eat dinner and watch soccer. afk for a while.
16:53 jq joined #parrot
16:53 pmichaud DietCoke: Perhaps a good FAQ:  "I'd like to contribute to Parrot.  Where should I start?"
16:55 Patterner joined #parrot
17:03 jhorwitz pmichaud: i will send you my notes and the apache configs for mod_lightning
17:04 davidfetter mmm...lightning :d
17:04 davidfetter btw, where are we supposed to send slides from yapc::na?
17:04 jhorwitz you can link to them from the wiki
17:04 * jhorwitz still needs to convert to PDF
17:04 jhorwitz or do a slideshare
17:10 pmichaud jhorwitz++
17:26 * DietCoke ~~ at jeff.
17:30 DietCoke pmichaud: added to my todo list.
17:30 DietCoke pmichaud: do my tcl ramblings look sane to you?
17:31 pmichaud what I've read thus far, yes.  I need to read them more closely for comprhension, though.
17:33 * jhorwitz ~~ back
17:33 DietCoke hokay.
17:35 jhorwitz DietCoke: flight ok?
17:35 davidfetter anybody here have an "in" with OSDC/Syndey?
17:35 davidfetter http://www.confz.com/index.php/au/2008
17:35 * davidfetter looking to exert undue influence ;)
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17:46 * davidfetter waves to cotto_yapc
17:51 * cotto_yapc waves back
17:56 DietCoke jhorwitz: I got there insanely early, had to throw out some toiletries to check in, but fine.
17:56 jhorwitz cool
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18:31 dalek r28578 | Whiteknight++ | gsoc_pdd09:
18:31 dalek : [gsoc_pdd09] rearrange sweep phase to be more incremental, update related flags, macros, and functions
18:31 dalek diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn​/parrot/revision?rev=28578
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18:44 dalek r28579 | Whiteknight++ | gsoc_pdd09:
18:44 dalek : [gsoc_pdd09] fix a few bugs, including some I just created. Refactor some code, and fill in some basic increment rules.
18:44 dalek diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn​/parrot/revision?rev=28579
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19:05 dalek r28580 | Whiteknight++ | gsoc_pdd09:
19:05 dalek : [gsoc_pdd09] a few more small fixes, comments, move header stuff into the header.
19:05 dalek diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn​/parrot/revision?rev=28580
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20:03 dalek r28581 | Whiteknight++ | gsoc_pdd09:
20:03 dalek : [gsoc_pdd09] Fix all function declarations to be headerizer-approved, add function prototypes as created by headerizer. Misc cleanup
20:03 dalek diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn​/parrot/revision?rev=28581
20:05 dalek r28582 | coke++ | tcl_pct:
20:05 dalek : Simple rename of language shell's 'say' to 'puts'
20:05 dalek diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn​/parrot/revision?rev=28582
20:10 dalek r28583 | Whiteknight++ | gsoc_pdd09:
20:10 dalek : [gsoc_pdd09] Adding a suspiciously missing file that was killing my manifest check in configure.
20:10 dalek diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn​/parrot/revision?rev=28583
20:13 spinclad re warn "para poly": "but, but, sure i used parametric polymorphism!  look, '3 + 4'!"
20:13 dalek r28584 | Whiteknight++ | gsoc_pdd09:
20:13 dalek : [gsoc_pdd09] update MANIFEST to include the new files I've added
20:13 dalek diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn​/parrot/revision?rev=28584
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20:47 bacek morning everyone
20:50 dalek r28585 | japhb++ | trunk:
20:50 dalek : [OpenGL] shapes.pir: Temporary fix for broken OpenGLs
20:50 dalek : * For now, don't enable GL_POINT_SMOOTH, because it's broken on many systems
20:50 dalek diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn​/parrot/revision?rev=28585
20:58 bacek seen pmichaud
20:58 purl pmichaud was last seen on #parrot 3 hours and 26 minutes ago, saying: what I've read thus far, yes.  I need to read them more closely for comprhension, though.
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21:32 japhb donaldh: While I've got you here ... can you test the regenerated version of your OpenGL / cygwin patch that I attached to RT #55978? ( http://rt.perl.org/rt3/Tic​ket/Display.html?id=55978 )
21:32 japhb The one dated June 18
21:32 donaldh sure
21:32 japhb thanks
21:34 donaldh japhb: I'm just reinstalling cygwin, so give me 5 mins
21:34 japhb np
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22:20 donaldh japhb: sorry, I can't resolve a link problem I have on Vista.
22:20 donaldh japhb: I've been chasing a glut link problem for a while. It's not specific to parrot/opengl
22:21 donaldh japhb: I can't verify the patch here. I have cygwin on Windows XP at work, but am off for a week now.
22:22 kid51 joined #parrot
22:38 dalek r28586 | jkeenan++ | trunk:
22:38 dalek : Test 157 does not need to be TODO-ed as it has a 'skip:' trailer in t/op/sprintf_tests.
22:38 dalek diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn​/parrot/revision?rev=28586
22:52 Whiteknight joined #parrot
22:54 dalek r28587 | jkeenan++ | trunk:
22:54 dalek : Improve POD formatting.
22:54 dalek diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn​/parrot/revision?rev=28587
23:51 TiMBuS joined #parrot
23:54 bacek_ joined #parrot

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