Camelia, the Perl 6 bug

IRC log for #parrot, 2008-07-23

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Time Nick Message
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00:13 DietCoke ... oh, sure he's gone!
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00:55 Tene Man, I really wish I could spend all week working on this hll stuff.
00:55 Tene I guess I'll have to spend all next week doing it instead.
00:56 Tene Looks like I need to get hllcompiler to deal with namespaces and class objects internally a bit more.
00:56 Tene It uses 'new' in a few awkward places.
00:57 Tene new-p-s looks in the current hll for a class
01:31 Topic for #parrotis now "Parrot 0.6.4 "St. Vincent Amazon" Released | http://parrotcode.org/ | 15/648/80 new/open/stalled tix | logged in http://irclog.perlgeek.de/parrot/today
01:32 japhb (The log link was broken because of spurious trailing punctuation)
01:36 Andy joined #parrot
01:38 japhb chromatic: ping
01:39 Whiteknight chromatic isn't even here, I dont think
01:39 japhb sigh
01:39 japhb Probably enjoying himself at OSCON, the lucky bastard
01:39 japhb (Or home for the night, as I recall he lives within driving distance)
01:49 dalek r29687 | jkeenan++ | parallel:
01:49 dalek : Specify exact number of tests in plan.
01:49 dalek diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn​/parrot/revision?rev=29687
01:50 Whiteknight either or, he's a lucky bastard
02:02 dalek r29688 | jkeenan++ | parallel:
02:02 dalek : Specify exact number of tests in plan.
02:02 dalek diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn​/parrot/revision?rev=29688
02:02 pmichaud Tene: I'm planning ot upgrade P6object and HLLCompiler soon.  This Saturday, if not sooner.
02:03 pmichaud my goal for this week is to get precompiled libraries and (hopefully) .hll features working in pct and rakudo
02:04 dalek r29689 | jkeenan++ | parallel:
02:04 dalek : Refactor configuration step classes to move hard-coded lists of required files
02:04 dalek : and similar data to the step object's data structure.  Write basic tests of
02:04 dalek : step classes, e.g., can we locate the prerequisite files and directories.
02:04 dalek diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn​/parrot/revision?rev=29689
02:12 dalek r29690 | tewk++ | gsoc_nci:
02:12 dalek : [gsoc_nci] MERGE 29656:29689
02:12 dalek diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn​/parrot/revision?rev=29690
02:23 Andy joined #parrot
02:28 dalek r29691 | coke++ | trunk:
02:28 dalek : [tcl] skip a lot more tests we can't pass yet.
02:28 dalek diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn​/parrot/revision?rev=29691
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05:04 bacek perl6.past: my ($a,$b)=(1,2);
05:04 nopaste "polyglotbot" at 193.200.132.146 pasted "perl6 past paste" (168 lines) at http://nopaste.snit.ch/13638
05:06 bacek perl6.pir: my ($a,$b)=(1,2);
05:06 nopaste "polyglotbot" at 193.200.132.146 pasted "perl6 pir paste" (11 lines) at http://nopaste.snit.ch/13639
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05:47 pmichaud ping
05:47 particl1 pong
05:47 pmichaud hiya!
05:47 particl1 hey there
05:48 particl1 saw you and paula walk in, but didn't catch you
05:48 pmichaud I was looking for you -- didn't see you
05:48 particl1 i was in the back center
05:48 pmichaud oh well :-)
05:49 Andy joined #parrot
05:49 pmichaud the talks were excellent, as usual :-)
05:50 pmichaud do we need to discuss anything for tomorrow's talk(s)?
05:58 particl1 probably
05:58 particl1 i'm looking over the slides, while somewhat distracted
05:59 particl1 i've been distracted most of the day, in fact
05:59 pmichaud ah.  where are you now?
06:02 particl1 doubletree
06:02 particl1 you at the red lion?
06:02 pmichaud la q
06:02 pmichaud la quinta
06:03 particl1 oh yeah
06:06 particl1 i'm pretty uninterested in the keynote tomorrow, you?
06:06 pmichaud let me check sched
06:07 particl1 http://en.oreilly.com/oscon2008/​public/schedule/grid/2008-07-23
06:10 pmichaud I'm not interested in the 9:30a keynote.  I might see the 8:45 keynotes, but it wouldn't kill me if I missed them
06:11 particl1 it's 9:30 that doesn't interest me, either
06:11 particl1 perhaps we meet then, outside the main ballroom?
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06:12 pmichaud okay, let's do that.
06:12 pmichaud before the keynotes I need to double-check that my laptop is working
06:12 pmichaud (on the projectors)
06:13 particl1 good idea
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06:21 dalek r29692 | jhorwitz++ | trunk:
06:21 dalek : [NCI] add missing NCI signatures for mod_parrot (r346)
06:22 dalek diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn​/parrot/revision?rev=29692
06:22 pmichaud doh!  I was hopoing to get interpolated namespaces working for jhorwitz
06:22 pmichaud *hoping
06:23 pmichaud it's been a lousy week, hacking-wise
06:25 particl1 he says he packed some tuits if you need them
06:25 pmichaud heh.  I might be able to have it working tomorrow night.
06:29 dalek Tim Bunce | Inter-HLL Mapping Notes:
06:29 dalek link: http://www.perlfoundation.org/parro​t/index.cgi?inter_hll_mapping_notes
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07:17 dalek r29693 | pmichaud++ | trunk:
07:17 dalek : [rakudo]: spectest-progress.csv update: 102 files, 1799 passing tests
07:17 dalek diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn​/parrot/revision?rev=29693
07:30 dalek r29694 | fperrad++ | trunk:
07:30 dalek : [Lua]
07:30 dalek : - add gl & glut
07:30 dalek diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn​/parrot/revision?rev=29694
07:32 Ademan joined #parrot
07:33 dalek bernhard.schmalhofer@gmx.de | Pipp:
07:33 dalek link: http://www.perlfoundation.​org/parrot/index.cgi?pipp
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07:34 dalek r29695 | fperrad++ | trunk:
07:34 dalek : [Lua] OpenGL
07:34 dalek : - some methods
07:34 dalek diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn​/parrot/revision?rev=29695
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08:04 moritz how do I change the title of a ticket in RT?
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08:31 barney moritz: click on 'Grundlagen' or 'Basics', in the non-public ticket-view
08:34 moritz barney: thanks
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08:37 * barney is heading for a short vacation in http://www.soelden.com/
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10:05 dalek r29696 | fperrad++ | trunk:
10:05 dalek : [ICU] update with version 4.0
10:05 dalek diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn​/parrot/revision?rev=29696
10:12 * Patterner still has only 3.8...
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11:01 dalek Daniel Ruoso | Inter-HLL Mapping Notes:
11:01 dalek link: http://www.perlfoundation.org/parro​t/index.cgi?inter_hll_mapping_notes
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11:16 dalek Daniel Ruoso | Inter-HLL Mapping Notes:
11:16 dalek link: http://www.perlfoundation.org/parro​t/index.cgi?inter_hll_mapping_notes
12:48 Tene pmichaud: Yes, that's what I was trying to do.  I didn't get very far, though.
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13:07 pmurias if i want to add a new backend to rakudo i should add it to the PCT?
13:10 moritz at what stage would your backend replace the old one?
13:10 moritz PAST? or POST?
13:11 pmurias POST
13:11 pmurias i plan to make rakudo emit sm0p instead of pir
13:17 pmurias would it be possible to do this withought writing pir?
13:18 moritz you could write PASM or PBC instead ;-)
13:22 pmurias seriously it would be possible to write it in p6 or an other *structured* high level language?
13:28 dalek r29697 | pmichaud++ | trunk:
13:28 dalek : [pct]: Add 'pow' opcode signature to PAST::Compiler
13:28 dalek diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn​/parrot/revision?rev=29697
13:30 pmurias pmichaud: do you think it is feasible to write a PCT backend in perl6?
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13:35 pmurias rakudo: multi foo($a) {say $a};foo(1);
13:38 moritz pmurias: on #parrot that's called 'perl6:', but polyglotbot doesn't update its repo very often
13:38 pmurias perl6: say 4
13:38 polyglotbot OUTPUT[4␤]
13:38 pmurias kp6: say 4
13:39 pmurias moritz: other implemenations are not tollerated here?
13:39 pmurias ;)
13:39 pmurias * tolerated
13:40 moritz pmurias: not a question of tolerance ;-) polyglotbot hosts parrot-based languages, in #perl6 p6eval hosts perl 6 implementations
13:41 pmurias i see
13:41 pmurias perl6: multi foo($a) {}
13:41 polyglotbot OUTPUT[Statement not terminated properly at line 1, near "{}"␤current instr.: 'parrot;PGE::Util;die' pc 120 (runtime/parrot/library/PGE/Util.pir:82)␤called from Sub 'parrot;Perl6::Grammar;eat_terminator' pc 22126 (src/gen_grammar.pir:2813)␤called from Sub 'parrot;Perl6::Grammar;statementlist' pc
13:41 polyglotbot ..21139 (src/gen_grammar.pir:2450)␤called from Sub '...
13:41 pmurias perl6: multi foo($a) {...}
13:41 polyglotbot OUTPUT[Statement not terminated properly at line 1, near "{...}"␤current instr.: 'parrot;PGE::Util;die' pc 120 (runtime/parrot/library/PGE/Util.pir:82)␤called from Sub 'parrot;Perl6::Grammar;eat_terminator' pc 22126 (src/gen_grammar.pir:2813)␤called from Sub 'parrot;Perl6::Grammar;statementlist' pc
13:41 polyglotbot ..21139 (src/gen_grammar.pir:2450)␤called from Su...
13:53 pmichaud pmurias: at some point I expect to rewrite PCT in Perl 6, yes
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14:00 pmichaud yes, it would be possible to create a PCT backend that emits something other than POST or PIR -- just need a replacement for PAST::Compiler
14:00 pmichaud (and yes, that can probably be written in Perl 6.  I don't know what Rakudo would be missing to be able to do that "today", though.)
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14:03 Tene Man, it sure would be nice if I could get the parrot rebuild to happen properly on feather3
14:04 Tene I've tweaked it several times, and the 'svn up' is happening fine, but it doesn't actually rebuild.
14:04 Infinoid does it try? :)
14:07 Tene I'm not sure.
14:07 Infinoid can you redirect stdout/stderr to a temporary logfile?
14:07 pmichaud particl1: ping
14:07 Infinoid I'd offer to help, but I think I only have an account on feather1.
14:08 Tene I probably could.
14:09 Tene Infinoid: if you're willing to debug it for me, I'll give you an account there.
14:09 Infinoid sure, I'm willing
14:09 Tene username?
14:09 purl username is the first entry?
14:09 Tene purl: forget username
14:09 purl Tene: I forgot username
14:10 Infinoid infinoid
14:10 purl you are Mark Glines <mailto:mark@glines.org>
14:10 pmichaud particl1: latest draft of slides is at http://www.pmichaud.com/2008/pres/oscon-rakudo/
14:10 pmichaud (suggestions from all welcomed)
14:11 moritz "Rakudo Consulting Group" - is there such a legal entity? ;-)
14:12 pmichaud http://www.rakudoconsulting.com/
14:13 moritz wow
14:13 pmichaud (short answer:  "yes")
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14:17 pmurias any clients yet?
14:19 moritz pmurias: s/Plumhead/Pipp/ in your presentation
14:19 pmichaud oh, yes, thanks.
14:19 pmichaud is chitchat far enough along to be mentioned?
14:20 moritz in the list of supported features, you could s/blocks/blocks and lambdas/
14:20 moritz blocks in p6 are far more than in most other languages
14:21 moritz but then again, it should probably be listed in "mostly working"
14:22 pmichaud won't be long before I can get rid of those slides altogether, and just mentioned what doesn't work yet :-)
14:22 moritz ;)
14:24 pmichaud slides updating (slow hotel network connection)
14:25 pmichaud afk for a bit
14:25 pmurias "nothing works right now as we are doing heavy refactoring..." ;)
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14:31 Tene pmichaud: chitchat isn't far enough along to be mentioned.  The grammar has properly parsed everything I've thrown at it, but that's about all.
14:38 pmurias how can i see how many rakudo test pass
14:38 pmurias didn't mean to ask that :(
14:39 moritz perl tools/test_summary.pl
14:56 masak I'm glad that question was asked, because I didn't know about test_summary.pl before :)
15:11 moritz 'make spectest_regression' lists skipped tests as passes, I think
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16:01 pmichaud urgh.  my week of technical oddity continues -- wireless is not working on my laptop :-(
16:02 Infinoid pmichaud: are you using the dreaded iwl4965 driver?
16:03 pmichaud no.
16:03 moritz Infinoid: I do. d'oh.
16:03 pmichaud no -- my wireless was working fine in the hotel, but at oscon it's not working at all
16:03 moritz Infinoid: it works all fine with linux-2.6.26, but with that kernel my sound doesn't work ;)
16:04 Infinoid moritz: I've had to put my ifconfig/iwconfig stuff into a shell loop, so it retries until the connection succeeds
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16:40 ^conner anyone going to the erlang talk?
16:43 TimToady I wish I could
17:00 japhb Wow, that's a power staff listing: http://www.rakudoconsulting.com/staff.html
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17:12 japhb pmichaud: when slide 3 is continued, "Parrot Foundation" disappears
17:20 japhb pmichaud: slide 18 says "Jul 2008", slide 19 says "Jun 2008"
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17:39 mj41 pmichaud: smop  "C-based VM" -> "C-based engine" ?
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17:45 cotto_work is this nqjit error correction for pmichaud's presentation?
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18:07 japhb cotto_work: if we're late, pmichaud should have posted the slide deck earlier.  :-)
18:08 japhb Besides, he does editor inheritance of his slide deck, so our changes now should help him for the next time he gives this talk
18:09 cotto_work cool.  Where are they posted?
18:10 particl1 http://www.pmichaud.com/2008/pres/
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19:22 dalek r29698 | moritz++ | trunk:
19:22 dalek : [rakudo] added S05-metasyntax/unknown.t to spectest_regression, Auzon++
19:22 dalek :  +6 passes
19:22 dalek diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn​/parrot/revision?rev=29698
19:23 kasei wondering if anyone knows reasons why parrot would fail to configure on darwin (both HEAD and 0.6.4), or if my local config is to blame.
19:38 cotto_work no guarantees, but you could nopaste the output here
19:42 kasei during config, ccflags seems to get set starting with "64" (which causes cc to die)
19:43 kasei something to do with -arch flag checking, i suspect, but didn't want to dig into it if it was a known problem.
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19:50 Infinoid kasei: if you could cutpaste your output into http://nopaste.snit.ch/, we'd love to take a look
19:50 kasei sure thing. let me re-run... (after clearing ARCHFLAGS, I got the build to continue)
19:54 nopaste "kasei" at 24.195.199.16 pasted "Configure.pl failure (apparently due to ARCHFLAGS)" (48 lines) at http://nopaste.snit.ch/13643
19:55 rurban well, having a c compiler would help
19:55 kasei i have a c compiler
19:56 rurban where is your gcc pointing to?
19:56 kasei like i said, clearing out ARCHFLAGS allows the build to succeed.
19:56 Infinoid weird.
19:56 rurban maybe it's at i386-apple-darwin9-gcc-4.0.1
19:57 kasei gcc is a series of symlinks that ends at /usr/bin/i686-apple-darwin9-gcc-4.0.1
19:58 kasei which is, afaik, the default on OS X.
19:58 rurban so we need a cc   64  -g -pipe -fno-common -no-cpp-precomp  -Wdeclaration-after-statement -I/usr/local/include -pipe -fno-common -Wno-long-double   -I./include -c test.c --verbose
19:59 Infinoid sounds like we need to not pass the "64"
19:59 kasei is that necessary? "64" shouldn't be an arg to cc there, so cc's output is kind of beside the point.
19:59 Infinoid yeah, it's an invalid argument, we've got some string handling wrong in config/
19:59 rurban well, your ccflags start with 64... looks odd
20:00 kasei the ccflags start with 64 because of bad parsing of ARCHFLAGS (if I've understood what's going on correctly)
20:00 Infinoid so, what was your $ARCHFLAGS set to?
20:01 kasei "-arch i386 -arch ppc -arch ppc64 -arch x86_64"
20:01 rurban could you paste your perl -V also?
20:01 kasei everything before '-g' in the first Pre-check line
20:01 Infinoid oh man, OS X makes my brain spin
20:01 rurban that's a bundle for 4 archs?
20:01 kasei yes
20:02 Infinoid OS X compilers like to generate binaries for all possible platforms, all at once, in the same file
20:03 nopaste "kasei" at 24.195.199.16 pasted "perl -V" (62 lines) at http://nopaste.snit.ch/13644
20:03 rurban did you read the darwin hints file? there is the explanation
20:05 kasei no. is that config/init/hints/darwin.pm you're referring to?
20:05 Infinoid rurban: right, that's where the arch list comes from.  but where does the 64 come from?
20:05 rurban =~ s/-arch\s+$arch//g is wrong
20:06 rurban first ppc is replaced, the ppc64, it shoudl be the other way round.
20:07 Infinoid interesting.  reversing the order of @arches should fix that
20:07 rurban care to submit a bugreport? => @arches = qw(i386 ppc64  ppc x86_64);
20:07 kasei sure. link?
20:07 rurban ./parrotbug
20:08 Infinoid or just mailto:parrotbug@parrotcode.org
20:08 kasei sure. thanks for the help tracking that down.
20:08 Infinoid kasei: does it fix anything when you reverse the arch order in that line?
20:08 rurban subject: [BUG] darwin hints with -arch ppc64
20:08 rurban I'm sure that will fix it, please try that.
20:09 kasei yes, that fixes it.
20:09 rurban if you care you can also attach the patch then.
20:09 dalek r29699 | coke++ | trunk:
20:09 dalek : [smolder] This test has been consistently failing on at least one netbsd
20:09 dalek : system. Silence it for now.
20:09 dalek : http://smolder.plusthree.com/app/public_p​rojects/report_details/2533#first_failure
20:09 dalek diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn​/parrot/revision?rev=29699
20:10 rurban coke is not at OSCON?
20:11 rurban kasei: is that the default darwin9 perl?
20:12 kasei afaik, yes
20:12 kasei why?
20:12 rurban because I wonder why nobody before reported that failure
20:13 rurban it should have failed for everybody.
20:13 kasei the default system doesn't set the ARCHFLAGS to build for all four archs.
20:13 rurban hmm
20:14 kasei which can lead to building libraries that don't work with some of the system apps.
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20:18 kasei will ./parrotbug allow me to attach a file, or should I inline the diff?
20:19 moritz http://www.perlmonks.org/?node_id=699670 maybe somebody else from the rakudo crowd (jonathan, pmichaud, particle) wants to comment on that?
20:20 Infinoid kasei: I don't see a command line option for attachments.
20:20 rurban first submit and then go the link and attach it in the tracker. but since its so short you can also inline it.
20:22 Infinoid rurban: when I asked you for a fixed patch for pbc_to_exe_gen.pl, you sent me a patch which you said contained changes for a second ticket.  what was the other ticket number?  and are there additional changes I should incorporate before checking it in?
20:22 dalek r29700 | moritz++ | trunk:
20:22 dalek : [rakudo] added S05-metasyntax/changed.t to spectest_regression, Auzon++
20:22 dalek :  +10 pass, +3 todo tests
20:22 dalek diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn​/parrot/revision?rev=29700
20:22 rurban moritz: I have both pugs and parrot-perl6 working fine under windows.
20:23 rurban Infinoid: wait a sec...
20:23 purl hmmm... wait a sec... is purl one of those answer bots?
20:23 moritz rurban: with a 5.10er perl? (pugs, that is?)
20:23 rurban yes, 5.10
20:23 rurban pugs is via cabal
20:23 moritz ok, I'll update my post
20:24 rurban I've packaged it cygwin, perl6 is removed since it was buggy, I cannot release pugs, because it's too hard to bootstrap automatically.
20:25 rurban the new parrot update in a few days will again contain a fine perl6: parrot-perl6-0.6.4-2
20:25 moritz rurban: do you have an inofficial cygwin repo for pugs?
20:25 rurban sorry no. just a huge 15mb /usr/local/bin/pugs.exe
20:26 rurban when I have more time I could make a package at my own setup site.
20:26 moritz no hurry, just being curious
20:26 rurban but I have so many ghc fixes to make, and I submitted some of them.
20:27 rurban well, with the pre-compiled win32 ghc everything worked fine. but then I started to port it to cygwin.
20:27 rurban and then I got stuck.
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20:31 rurban Infinoid: I have no ticket yet for the object vs libs order. I just played with it and asked the mailing list. the problem is that the windows linker is not so forgiving as the linux linker.
20:32 Infinoid ok, thanks.  any objection to my checking it in?
20:32 masak are heredocs still '<<' in Perl 6? seems that would clash with hyper ops.
20:33 moritz S02:3023
20:33 masak thanks
20:33 rurban no, please check it in. better than nothing.
20:34 masak moritz: how implemented are they?
20:34 rurban About the design: I rather will change it sooner or later for --install to be the first arg, so that you can merge multiple pbc's into on exe sooner or later.
20:34 rurban but for now it is consistent with the other tool which also takes --install as last arg.
20:35 Infinoid and as-is, it'll give people something to play with
20:35 moritz masak: I think TimToady++ added them to STD.pm the other day. I don't think rakudo does any heredocs (dunno about pugs)
20:36 rurban And one more thing: the limitation for no directory is annoying, it should use some pir match() code to put the installable_ to the basename only. but I haven't understood that part yet.
20:36 masak moritz: oki
20:36 Andy joined #parrot
20:37 masak matches the results of my experiments so far :)
20:37 rurban btw. re pbc merging. I could not merge the lua pbc's to a self-hosting exe.
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20:37 moritz masak: what are you experimental pugs results?
20:38 rurban is there a tricky merge order for the pbc's to follow?
20:39 Infinoid you know, I've done the majority of the work in the pdd13pbc branch so far, and I still don't understand .pbc files at all. :P
20:39 dalek r29701 | infinoid++ | trunk:
20:39 dalek : [pbc_to_exe] Commit patches from Reini Urban in RT #57188.  rurban++
20:39 dalek : * Add an optional --install flag to pbc_to_exe.
20:39 dalek : * Add a rule to the rakudo Makefile to generate an installable perl6 binary.
20:39 dalek diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn​/parrot/revision?rev=29701
20:39 masak moritz: that pugs has'em
20:40 masak I just tried pugs -e 'say q:to/END/;\nhi\nEND' (where the \n are real newlines), and that worked
20:41 moritz ok, cool
20:41 rurban_ joined #parrot
20:44 dalek r29702 | infinoid++ | trunk:
20:44 dalek : [rakudo]
20:44 dalek : Followup to r29701, add installable_perl6 to the $CLEANUP list.
20:44 dalek diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn​/parrot/revision?rev=29702
20:45 cbrandtbuffalo joined #parrot
20:45 jonathan hi all
20:45 masak hi jonathan
20:45 rurban Infinoid: we shoudl also think about general install targets for all makefiles. the group so's, the binaries, the pir, the docs.
20:46 masak I accidentally found myself writing `push @in, $_ while =$*IN` in rakudo, and it segfaulted
20:46 Infinoid rurban: and tests for whether installing them works, too
20:46 Infinoid rurban: patches welcome :)
20:46 masak it works better with `for =$*IN` :)
20:46 rurban sure :) the installable_ tests are the hard part. for most langauges I already have the targets.
20:47 masak but I'm still thinking of submitting a rakudo bug
20:47 rurban Now I'm cherry picking which parts go where to in the DESTDIR
20:47 cbrandtbuffalo_ joined #parrot
20:48 masak does `... while =$*IN` have any discernably meaningful semantics in Perl 6? or should it perhaps give a warning?
20:48 rurban And I have pod2man orgies for all language binaries. This would be needed for debian and gentoo also.
20:49 Infinoid awesome.
20:49 rurban was there never the idea to use the new perl6doc format for the standalone utils/langs?
20:50 moritz rurban: perl6doc isn't even really specced
20:50 Theory joined #parrot
20:50 moritz rurban: Damian wrote up a spec which was heatedly discussed on p6l
20:50 Infinoid rurban: I'm looking at #57110 and #57112, your patches for ncurses and postgres.  I don't have cygwin, so I can't test them, but ... they're just patches to try alternate names for the cygwin versions of those libraries, right?  if so, it looks pretty safe.
20:50 rurban but I found a nice old implementation at CPAN
20:51 moritz rurban: and then he (Damian) that he needed some time thinking, and stalled it
20:51 rurban sure. no magic. pretty safe
20:51 rurban but it's almost complete
20:52 moritz rurban: yes, he also wrote a module (which wasn't bad), but because of the non-finalness it never really gained popularity
20:52 rurban anyway, 'm fine with old perl5 docs. so I can use pod2html and pod2man.
20:52 rurban re damian: I really have to bug him to give me comaint for some of his old B modules.
20:53 rurban They need to be updated for 5.10 and 5.11
20:53 rurban ByteCache for sure.
20:54 rurban oops, that was simon. he is still around. easy
20:56 particl1 joined #parrot
20:58 jonathan masak: If you make it segfault, file a bug report. That is never the right thing.
20:58 dalek r29703 | infinoid++ | trunk:
20:58 dalek : [runtime library] Apply patch from rurban++ in RT#57110.
20:58 dalek : * Cygwin has renamed the ncurses libraries; fall back to trying the cygwin names if the normal library names fail.
20:58 dalek diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn​/parrot/revision?rev=29703
20:58 dalek r29704 | infinoid++ | trunk:
20:58 dalek : [runtime library] Apply patch from rurban++ in RT#57112.
20:58 dalek : * Cygwin has renamed the postgres libraries; fall back to trying the cygwin names if the normal library names fail.
20:58 dalek diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn​/parrot/revision?rev=29704
20:58 masak jonathan: oki
20:58 * masak files
20:59 Theory joined #parrot
20:59 rurban Infinoid: we've renamed the pg lib on purpose so that the   mingw folks don't fall in our trap. or vice versa.
21:00 Infinoid that's a very messy problem...
21:00 rurban the real messy probloem is the versioning without hardlinks as on unix.
21:01 Infinoid and parrot may still fall into mingw's trap, given that it tries the normal names first
21:01 rurban oops. I have think about that.
21:01 Infinoid ...or will loadlib fail and return undef, and allow the pir to continue trying the other name?
21:02 rurban ...and I have to write slower...
21:02 rurban I wanted to check that in library.c with simple stat() calls.
21:02 Infinoid it would be great if mingw builds and cygwin builds could both DTRT here
21:03 rurban but now I think I will take the path checking the importlib first, because that never has any numbers.
21:03 rurban and from the importlib I easily find the correct dll. This works best for all windows builds. cygwin, mingw, msvc.
21:04 rurban and the libs are always at a specified path, the dll's not so.
21:05 jonathan masak: things :-)
21:06 Infinoid If you always rely on driving directions from a 4 year old kid, you always end up at the ice cream shop.
21:06 Infinoid that's what $PATH management in win32 reminds me of
21:06 jonathan pmichaud, another interested parties: will do Rakudo day on Friday this week, all being well.
21:07 jonathan (Been a bit of a week...by Friday I'll have had three trips to the doctors... :-|)
21:07 dalek r29705 | moritz++ | trunk:
21:07 dalek : [rakudo] dynamic x_label_skip in tools/progress-graph.pl
21:07 dalek diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn​/parrot/revision?rev=29705
21:07 particl1 Infinoid: i *just* talked to somebody at microsoft who wants to help us solve any windows problems we have with parrot
21:07 Infinoid great.  does that include cygwin?
21:07 rurban :)
21:07 particl1 including library loading w/ cygwin msys etc
21:08 Infinoid awesome!
21:08 purl That's not awesome, that's par for the course at best.  Are you from NZ
21:08 particl1 purl, forget awesome
21:08 purl particl1: I forgot awesome
21:08 rurban we don't really have technical problems, do we?
21:08 particl1 purl, you're stupid
21:08 purl particl1: what?
21:08 rurban It just have to be specced and agreed on.
21:10 teknomunk joined #parrot
21:10 Infinoid If they could implement a standard versioning system for libraries so our 3 flavors could fetch the right flavors of library, we sure wouldn't complain.
21:10 Infinoid while we're at it, see how they feel about putting libraries in /usr/lib/ :)
21:10 rurban again another version to version dll's? rather not
21:11 rurban ms has the tradition to use only major without any - or _ or .
21:11 rurban that's just fine.
21:11 rurban cygwin/X uses -1.3.2.dll
21:13 rurban Forcing to use ENV{LIB} for the MS case is also fine. Similar to the java classpath.
21:13 particl1 i don't know how much help we can get from ms, but it'd be nice to have them involved in the conversations with cygwin/msys folks
21:13 rurban No FS standards are also good standards
21:13 rurban sure.
21:14 Infinoid heh.  I was only joking with those suggestions.  all I know is, if everything worked today, we wouldn't be talking about this. :)
21:15 rurban MS should rather help us with Bob Rogers' problems
21:16 particl1 which problems are those?
21:19 masak rakudo: class A; my A $a .= new
21:20 masak perl6: class A; my A $a .= new
21:20 polyglotbot OUTPUT[./parrot: error while loading shared libraries: libparrot.so.0.6.4: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory␤]
21:20 rurban particl1: http://rgrjr.dyndns.org/perl/acsip/actions.html
21:20 masak polyglotbot: that's not good
21:20 masak anyways, should the above work?
21:21 masak on my computer, it gives the error "Method 'ACCEPTS' not found for non-object"
21:22 rurban particl1: in short pushaction
21:22 masak hm, and `class A {}; my A $a .= new` gives 'get_bool() not implemented in class 'A''
21:22 masak I think this calls for another bug report...
21:24 moritz masak: it tries to determine some kind of value for $a - see #perl6
21:24 jonathan masak: Does it work with new()
21:24 masak jonathan: nope
21:24 masak another error, tho'
21:24 jonathan That's not good.
21:24 masak indeed not
21:24 jonathan my A $a .= new() has worked in the past.
21:24 jonathan The fact it's stopped working means we're missing a test.
21:25 masak yes.
21:25 moritz jonathan: it didn't stop working
21:25 moritz ./rakudo -e 'class A {}; my A $a .= new; say 1'
21:25 moritz 1
21:25 jonathan Oh.
21:26 moritz it just can't print out a representation of $a
21:26 masak yes, I get that too
21:26 jonathan OH! So it's not .= that is...right.
21:26 masak but even on the command line I get this error
21:26 masak and then I'm not trying to print anything
21:26 moritz masak: in the REPL?
21:27 masak no, -e
21:27 masak perl6 -e 'class A {}; my $a = A.new()'
21:27 moritz it somehow treats the last expression spcially
21:27 masak also '.new' w/o parens, also '.= new'
21:27 moritz *that's* a subject for a bug report
21:28 * masak files
21:28 masak this is fun! :>
21:32 masak moritz: I don't much use the REPL any more. we didn't see eye to eye on things.
21:33 slightlyoff joined #parrot
21:34 slightlyoff left #parrot
21:41 dalek r29706 | coke++ | trunk:
21:41 dalek : [tcl] We are now, and have always been, targeting tcl 8.5.3.
21:41 dalek diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn​/parrot/revision?rev=29706
21:41 Theory joined #parrot
21:42 julian_ joined #parrot
21:54 teknomunk joined #parrot
22:01 japhb joined #parrot
22:10 dalek r29707 | coke++ | trunk:
22:10 dalek : [tcl] After 'make tclsh', remove the intermediate tcl.c and tcl.o files on 'make clean'
22:10 dalek diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn​/parrot/revision?rev=29707
22:11 paco NotFound: people from #linux are requesting your attention ..
22:25 dalek r29708 | coke++ | trunk:
22:25 dalek : [tcl] http://code.google.com/p/p​artcl/issues/detail?id=58
22:25 dalek : Eliminate some more __foo style sub names
22:25 dalek diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn​/parrot/revision?rev=29708
22:37 teknomunk_ joined #parrot
22:38 Whiteknight joined #parrot
22:42 cotto_work joined #parrot
22:50 dalek r29709 | Whiteknight++ | gsoc_pdd09:
22:50 dalek : [gsoc_pdd09] update to trunk r29708
22:50 dalek diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn​/parrot/revision?rev=29709
22:59 Limbic_Region joined #parrot
23:00 Andy joined #parrot
23:00 cotto_work coke, ping
23:07 ruoso joined #parrot
23:13 cognominal joined #parrot
23:27 DietCoke joined #parrot
23:27 DietCoke cotto_home: yes?
23:28 cotto_work is your windows build env working?
23:29 DietCoke I haven't checked in some time. Strawberry perl?
23:29 dalek r29710 | coke++ | trunk:
23:29 dalek : [tcl] http://code.google.com/p/p​artcl/issues/detail?id=58
23:29 dalek : Eliminate some more __foo style sub names
23:29 dalek diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn​/parrot/revision?rev=29710
23:29 cotto_work I just would like a patch tested.
23:29 DietCoke Sure. Let me re-up and clean and test, and then test with the patch. URL?
23:29 cotto_work http://rt.perl.org/rt3/Tic​ket/Display.html?id=46681 (strerror_7.patch)
23:30 DietCoke ... That's a most annoying stomach cramp. Ow.
23:30 cotto_work to test, just run t/pmc/file.t
23:30 cotto_work thanks!
23:30 DietCoke I think I'll test in the msvc world. More likely to squawk.
23:32 Theory joined #parrot
23:35 Limbic_Region salutations all
23:35 DietCoke hio
23:35 Limbic_Region IIRC, you do DreamWeaver development in your meatspace life right?
23:36 DietCoke ... ColdFusion.
23:36 Limbic_Region yeah, that's it
23:36 DietCoke (I understand you can actually do dreamweaver development, but for me, it's like 'vi'. =-)
23:36 DietCoke dare I wonder why you ask? =-)
23:37 Limbic_Region well, I posted something on use.perl kind of as a joke
23:37 DietCoke I also have been known to be paid for C++, Java, ...
23:37 DietCoke url?
23:37 Limbic_Region but also because I wanted to try and quantify how much free time I don't have anymore
23:37 Limbic_Region http://use.perl.org/~Limbic+Region/journal/36996
23:37 particl1 joined #parrot
23:38 DietCoke ... wait a minute. COTTO is asking me to run tests on WINDOWS!?
23:38 * DietCoke senses something terribly wrong with the universe.
23:38 Limbic_Region heh
23:38 timbunce joined #parrot
23:39 Limbic_Region well, the point of the post and the point of the question is trying to figure out if I am just missing something obvious
23:39 Limbic_Region people who have more responsibilities than me are far more productive
23:39 Limbic_Region but I can't seem to figure out how they do it
23:40 DietCoke I often work on parrot because it's the  most interesting thing on my plate. This may say more about my plate than our parrot.
23:40 Limbic_Region so - you having a real job that wasn't paying for parrot development qualified for my "how do you do it" lead in
23:40 DietCoke AH!
23:40 DietCoke I was trying to figure what the hell you were getting at. =-0
23:40 DietCoke I work on parrot because I think it's shiny. That's all.
23:40 Limbic_Region right - but presumably you have a real life and a real job
23:41 DietCoke debatable. =-)
23:41 Limbic_Region and you don't just sit on the channel chatting (like me) - you actually produce a work product
23:41 * Limbic_Region is just depressed is all
23:41 * DietCoke is too, just not about parrot.
23:42 Limbic_Region well - I wouldn't mind not contributing to parrot if I was working on ANYTHING
23:42 Limbic_Region but whatever - this is #parrot not #woe_is_me
23:42 * Limbic_Region shuts up
23:43 DietCoke if you're interested in working more on parrot, I'd try to figure out how much time you have available. Sounds like "not much". Try to find an activity that fits into that time slot.
23:43 DietCoke like "going through the bug queue", or "setting up a smolder client", or "fixing and enabling a new warning/codingstd test" etc.
23:44 DietCoke plenty of small stuff that would be very appreciated.
23:44 particl1 dietcoke: do you use a "plate" with medifast?!?!?! ;)
23:47 DietCoke how the hell do you apply a patch with tortoise svn?
23:47 DietCoke it brings up a merge tool for a trivial diff with no conflicts, and I don't see a big red "apply" button.
23:48 Whiteknight I used to know how to do it
23:48 Whiteknight there is an "apply patch" option somewhere
23:48 Whiteknight it's on the bottom of the pop-out list, I think
23:48 DietCoke I have a hovering window with the two file names in the patch.
23:48 DietCoke no button.
23:48 DietCoke if I right click, there's a "patch all".
23:49 DietCoke that by itself doesn't change files on disk.
23:49 Whiteknight no no no. Right-click on the patch file in explorer
23:49 particl1 right click the files
23:49 Whiteknight in the menu, there should  be an option to "apply patch"
23:49 particl1 patch all does change the files, at least once you exit the merge viewer
23:50 DietCoke particl1: that's what I"m saying, it doesn't.
23:50 DietCoke I'll try Whiteknight's way, instead of picking "apply patch" on the directory and then selecting the patch.
23:51 particl1 that should open the merge viewer
23:51 particl1 iirc
23:51 DietCoke Yup. I end up at the same place.
23:51 DietCoke P(*@#&$
23:51 particl1 which should Just Work
23:52 particl1 i also have a 'patch' util
23:52 DietCoke once I select "patch all", ... nothing happens. there's no option in the merge viewer to save.
23:53 Whiteknight you broke it
23:53 DietCoke ... it didn't like the single pane view, apparently.
23:54 cout joined #parrot
23:58 DietCoke cotto_home: fail. doesn't even build.
23:58 cotto_work oh no my patch asplode
23:59 cotto_work Do you know what kills the build process?
23:59 Whiteknight a stiff breeze?

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