Camelia, the Perl 6 bug

IRC log for #parrot, 2008-07-27

Parrot | source cross referenced

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Time Nick Message
00:04 Alias joined #parrot
00:04 Alias ping?
00:04 * Alias tries to contact people at the hackathon
00:07 Alias Oh come on... wtf are they :(
00:44 Alias joined #parrot
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00:47 Schwern joined #parrot
00:47 Schwern moritz:  We have a question about the logic behing # pure in the fudge file.
00:48 Schwern moritz:  Why would one want to use #pure and not simply remove the fudge from the .t file in question?
00:48 Schwern (We're trying to refactor the test suite to easier run individual test files)
00:49 Andy joined #parrot
01:28 dalek r29780 | coke++ | trunk:
01:28 dalek : [tcl] Now that :vtable knows about 'self', drop the :method hack we had been
01:28 dalek : using to get access to it.
01:28 dalek diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn​/parrot/revision?rev=29780
01:33 Andy joined #parrot
01:34 pmichaud cla?
01:34 purl cla is Contributor License Agreement or http://www.perlfoundation.org/​contributor_license_agreement
01:39 Schwern Could somebody check if I signed a CLA and have a commit bit?
01:39 Schwern I think I did about two years ago
01:40 pmichaud cla's were first handed out at yapc::na 2006, so that would be about right
01:41 pmichaud but in general commit bits that haven't been used in more than a year tend to get disabled
01:41 pmichaud (I think)
01:41 Schwern ah ha
01:42 dalek r29781 | jkeenan++ | parallel:
01:42 dalek : Refactor some code from inside runstep() into _handle_asm() and add appropriate tests.
01:42 dalek diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn​/parrot/revision?rev=29781
01:59 Schwern pmichaud:  Could you apply that patch please?
02:00 pmichaud working on it -- running a test first
02:07 dalek r29782 | pmichaud++ | trunk:
02:07 dalek : [rakudo]: Allow single-test make targets, refactor fudge/harness.
02:07 dalek : * Patch courtesy Schwern++.
02:07 dalek diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn​/parrot/revision?rev=29782
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02:28 dalek r29783 | jkeenan++ | parallel:
02:28 dalek : [configure] Make all functions into methods of the step class.   This done
02:28 dalek : mainly to make content of coda universally available, so it is moved into
02:28 dalek : _init().  Refactor code from inside runstep() to _handle_begin_c() to increase
02:28 dalek : testability of previously uncovered branch.  Add appropriate tests.  Add
02:28 dalek : inline comments in test file.
02:28 dalek diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn​/parrot/revision?rev=29783
02:47 Schwern pmichaud:  parallelization patch sent
02:49 kid51 Schwern:  where are you sending these patches?
02:49 pmichaud they're going to my inbox
02:49 pmichaud normally we'd send them to rakudobug@perl.org, but we didn't want the mailing list/rt delay
03:08 Theory joined #parrot
03:28 dalek r29784 | pmichaud++ | trunk:
03:28 dalek : [p6object]: Eliminate %!metaclass hash
03:28 dalek : * Classes point directly to metaclass object
03:28 dalek : * Anonymous classes no longer leak memory
03:28 dalek diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn​/parrot/revision?rev=29784
03:29 dalek r29785 | pmichaud++ | trunk:
03:29 dalek : [configure]:  Fix config/auto/opengl.pm to match coding standards.
03:30 dalek diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn​/parrot/revision?rev=29785
03:47 dalek r29786 | cotto++ | trunk:
03:47 dalek : [intlist] make intlist_get correctly check return list_get's return value
03:47 dalek diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn​/parrot/revision?rev=29786
04:14 Andy joined #parrot
04:23 cotto_home is there anything already in Parrot that I could use to check if a DESCRIPTION section is empty?
04:24 cotto_home in a Pod file
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04:37 ewilhelm pmichaud, hackathon adjourned?
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05:13 ewilhelm uh, touch /tmp/t && make test fails t/perl/Parrot_IO.t ?
05:14 Auzon rt?
05:14 purl hmmm... rt is just RT (http://bestpractical.com/rt) or (:rt3) or (: rt bugs) or Obra's trouble ticketing system or the first IBM RISC workstation (http://www.contrib.andrew.c​mu.edu/~shadow/ibmrt.html) or the bombsquad or the Right Thing or very very capable and open-source or an application framework that bundles a ticketing system or obra's baby or SOOOO slow :-S or email mailto:perlbug-owner@perl.org for access
05:14 ewilhelm is that a report-worthy bug or have I completely lost my mind?
05:14 Auzon parrotbug?
05:14 purl parrotbug is mailto:parrotbug@parrotcode.org or http://svn.perl.org/parrot/​trunk/docs/submissions.pod or see also "rakudobug"
05:14 Auzon rakudobug?
05:14 purl rakudobug is probably mailto:rakudobug@perl.org
05:16 Auzon parrot rt?
05:16 purl it has been said that parrot rt is http://rt.perl.org or http://rt.perl.org/rt3/Public​/Bug/Display.html?id=$bugnum
05:16 Auzon aha
05:16 ewilhelm ok, now that I'm back on the path of my bisection search to discover why compiling segfaults on amd64
05:18 Auzon rakudo roadmap?
05:18 Auzon roadmap?
05:18 purl roadmap is http://www.xray.mpe.mpg.de/mailing-lis​ts/perl5-porters/2004-11/msg00115.html
05:18 ewilhelm Auzon, you talking to me or just messing with the bot?
05:19 Auzon I'm asking the bot stuff, but maybe you know ;)
05:19 Auzon I'm looking to see if the lack of m// support is on the roadmap or anything before I report it
05:19 Auzon (in rakudo, that is)
05:19 * ewilhelm wouldn't have a clue, I can't even run rakudo
05:19 Auzon What OS?
05:20 ewilhelm --> bisection search to discover why compiling segfaults on linux amd64
05:21 Auzon purl, rakudo roadmap is http://svn.perl.org/parrot/t​runk/languages/perl6/ROADMAP
05:21 purl OK, Auzon.
05:21 Auzon I won't bug them about m// yet then :)
05:25 Auzon ewilhelm: Seems to be working for me. Good luck on your search
05:25 ewilhelm working? at HEAD of trunk?
05:26 Auzon Yes.
05:26 Auzon Fedora 9, 64 bit.
05:26 ewilhelm grr.  thanks
05:28 ewilhelm starting to look like bisection was not needed...
05:29 Auzon hm. One test has fails. :-/
05:30 ewilhelm which?
05:30 Auzon t/spec/S02-names_and_variables/perl.t
05:31 Auzon But that's something minor.
05:31 ewilhelm is this new?  we were messing with the harness some today
05:33 Auzon Looks like new today.
05:33 Auzon It segfaults, oddly enough
05:34 ewilhelm which (I think) has nothing to do with what I'm attemting to chase-down
05:34 ewilhelm ack.  HEAD builds fine.  I think svn ate my baby.
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05:36 ewilhelm what is languages/perl6/t/fetchspec ?
05:36 ewilhelm make does svn co on the pugs t/spec, where this just picks a couple directories
05:36 ewilhelm ?
05:37 Auzon Apparently so, but I'm not sure why
05:38 Auzon It's not used in the Makefile at all. Hasn't been touched in ~4000 revs
05:39 Auzon It looks like the predecessor to spectest_regression.
05:39 ewilhelm so that goes to rakudobug then?
05:41 dalek r29787 | cotto++ | trunk:
05:41 dalek : [codingstd] fix a trailing space
05:41 dalek diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn​/parrot/revision?rev=29787
05:44 dalek r29788 | cotto++ | trunk:
05:44 dalek : [pod] Add a test to pod.t to make RT #48264 closeable.
05:44 dalek diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn​/parrot/revision?rev=29788
05:47 cotto_home 6/10.6
05:47 purl 0.566037735849057
05:49 ewilhelm t/dynpmc/foo.t - Failed test 'loadlib with absolute pathname, no ext' ??
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07:30 dalek r29789 | fperrad++ | trunk:
07:30 dalek : [Lua] OpenGL, fix constants
07:30 dalek diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn​/parrot/revision?rev=29789
07:35 iblechbot joined #parrot
08:19 dalek r29790 | fperrad++ | trunk:
08:19 dalek : [Lua] OpenGL, fix glut.Init()
08:19 dalek diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn​/parrot/revision?rev=29790
08:37 workbench joined #parrot
09:06 dalek r29791 | fperrad++ | trunk:
09:06 dalek : [Lua] OpenGL, fix demo
09:06 dalek diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn​/parrot/revision?rev=29791
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10:01 masak are the first two items in languages/perl6/ROADMAP ('list context, list assignment', and 'return and control exceptions') only partly implemented, or is ROADMAP out-of-date?
10:02 masak rakudo: my @a = (1,2,3); say @a # this counts as list assignment to me
10:02 polyglotbot OUTPUT[123␤]
10:03 masak rakudo: sub foo { return; say "world" }; say "hello"; foo # and return seems to work fine
10:03 polyglotbot OUTPUT[hello␤]
10:03 masak time to update ROADMAP?
10:18 jonathan masak: I believe things like ($a, $b) = 1,2; will not yet work, so list assignment ain't really done yet.
10:18 masak ah.
10:18 jonathan And return isn't 100% there either, not are other control exceptions.
10:18 masak I see.
10:18 jonathan So both items have progress, but aren't complete.
10:19 masak what is it about return that isn't 100%?
10:23 jonathan I think returning more than one thing.
10:33 masak rakudo: sub f { return 1,2 }; say f
10:33 polyglotbot OUTPUT[too many arguments passed (2) - at most 1 params expected␤current instr.: 'f' pc 96 (EVAL_13:41)␤called from Sub '_block11' pc 17 (EVAL_13:11)␤called from Sub 'parrot;PCT::HLLCompiler;eval' pc 806 (src/PCT/HLLCompiler.pir:481)␤called from Sub 'parrot;PCT::HLLCompiler;evalfiles' pc 1088
10:33 polyglotbot ..(src/PCT/HLLCompiler.pir:610)␤called from Sub 'parrot...
10:33 masak seems so.
10:33 masak so the list assignment thing and the return thing are actually a bit related?
10:37 jonathan I suspect so, yes.
10:37 jonathan ($a, $b) = f(); # with the f in your example above
10:38 masak is this functionality far off? what's blocking it?
10:38 jonathan I think it may need PGE changes.
10:39 masak why?
10:39 jonathan I'm not entirely sure, and I may be mis-remembering that. I'm just trying to think through how to implement it...
10:40 jonathan I know it's on Patrick's todo list, so I haven't given it a whole load of thought.
10:41 jonathan I think it's something to do with knowing you parsed a list on the LHS so you can parse the RHS in a different context.
10:44 jonathan masak: BTW, willl you be at YAPC::Europe::2008?
10:44 masak yes.
10:44 jonathan Cool. :-)
10:44 masak aye, I look forward to it :)
10:44 jonathan Patrick and I are hacking the day before and after.
10:44 masak we'll be there.
10:45 jonathan Awesome.
10:45 masak (viklund is coming too)
10:45 jonathan vilund?
10:45 jonathan *viklund
10:45 masak you met him and me at NPW2008
10:45 jonathan Yes, I'm trying now to put a face to the name...
10:46 jonathan Anyway, looking forward to the conference and hacking.
10:46 jonathan Need to write my talks, still!
10:46 masak :)
10:47 masak jonathan: http://www.flickr.com/photos/jooon/55661136/
10:47 jonathan I'm only going to show examples, that will run already in Rakudo.
10:47 masak viklund is "some guy with ear muffs" :)
10:47 jonathan Aha!
10:47 jonathan Yes, I remember now.
10:47 rurban Can we check instead of interpinfo .INTERPINFO_RUNTIME_PREFIX . "/runtime/parrot/include/config.fpmc" also for "/lib/parrot"...
10:48 rurban This is in parrotlib.pir and config.pir
10:49 jonathan rurban: I expect that would work out for UNIX-y systems, yes. We need something probably more generic though, to handle Win32.
10:49 rurban I dont want to set PARROT_RUNTIME_ROOT for installed versions all the time.
10:49 rurban even on unix systems /usr/runtime is non-FHS compliant
10:49 jonathan Hmm
10:49 rurban --prefix=/usr
10:49 * jonathan knows nothing about FHS
10:50 rurban in Cygwin I did setting a symlink from /usr/runtime to /usr/lib but on debian e.g. we will not be allowed to do so.
10:50 jonathan Yes, of course.
10:50 purl Indubitably.
10:51 jonathan purl: Is that even a word?
10:51 jonathan Should we not be installing with a configuration where INTERPINFO_RUNTIME_PREFIX is set to the right thing?
10:52 jonathan Or is that not settable at "make install" time?
10:52 jonathan It'd seem we know what it's going to be at that point...
10:52 rurban but after INTERPINFO_RUNTIME_PREFIX there comes runtime/parrot
10:52 jonathan Geck, yes.
10:52 rurban and runtime/parrot is only valid from source
10:53 jonathan Meaning we'd have to install to /lib/parrot/runtime/parrot to get that to work!
10:53 rurban uness you hide it behind /usr/lib/parrt/runtime or somewhere.
10:53 jonathan Yeah
10:53 rurban yep.
10:53 jonathan Ugly.
10:53 rurban --prefix=/usr/lib/parrot
10:53 jonathan Maybe including the runtime/parrot in the build (non-install) INTERPINFO_RUNTIME_PREFIX would do it?
10:54 rurban or better --prefix=opt/parrot
10:54 jonathan So INTERPINFO_RUNTIME_PREFIX is "...what it was before.../runtime/parrot"
10:54 rurban I rather think of checking prefix.lib/parrot first and then for the runtime/parrot path
10:54 rurban I'm just testing it.
10:54 jonathan OK
10:55 jonathan I'm afraid I'm likely not the best person to ask on this - I can help with Parrot guts-ish stuff, but I'm not at all familiar with Linux/UNIX packaging-ish things.
10:55 jonathan The mailing list is good - if anyone replies. ;-)
10:57 rurban INTERPINFO_RUNTIME_PREFIX is the same as Env PARROT_RUNTIME_ROOT or just "/usr", the prefix
11:08 rurban Ok, I added my patch at http://rt.perl.org/rt3/Tic​ket/Display.html?id=56996
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12:37 rurban Cannot we persuade parrot;PCT::HLLCompiler;initnot to load config.pir at runtime on a language pbc. the config hash is already linked
12:38 rurban unfortunately we don't know at run-time if the config hash is loaded or not. _config returns just  a hash but does not side-effects, like creating a global symbol
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12:44 dalek r29792 | fperrad++ | trunk:
12:44 dalek : [Lua] OpenGL, add glut.DestroyWindow()
12:44 dalek diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn​/parrot/revision?rev=29792
13:02 dalek r29793 | fperrad++ | trunk:
13:02 dalek : [Lua] OpenGL, check config
13:02 dalek diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn​/parrot/revision?rev=29793
13:29 jan joined #parrot
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13:45 dalek r29794 | jkeenan++ | parallel:
13:45 dalek : [configure] Fine-tuning of tests for configuration steps.  Clarify POD.
13:45 dalek : Provide inline comments functioning as subheads where tests previously found
13:45 dalek : in multiple files have been moved into a single file.  Use
13:45 dalek : Parrot::Configure::Test::test_st​ep_constructor_and_description() to eliminate
13:45 dalek : repeated code.  Delete outdated comments.
13:45 dalek diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn​/parrot/revision?rev=29794
13:45 dalek r29795 | Whiteknight++ | gsoc_pdd09:
13:45 dalek : [gsoc_pdd09] turn off iterative behavior to expose some underlying problems that need fixin'
13:45 dalek diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn​/parrot/revision?rev=29795
13:52 dalek r29796 | Whiteknight++ | gsoc_pdd09:
13:52 dalek : [gsoc_pdd09] update to trunk r 29793
13:52 dalek diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn​/parrot/revision?rev=29796
13:56 dalek r29797 | jkeenan++ | parallel:
13:56 dalek : [configure] Fine-tuning of tests for configuration steps.  Clarify POD.
13:56 dalek : Provide inline comments functioning as subheads where tests previously found
13:56 dalek : in multiple files have been moved into a single file.  Use
13:56 dalek : Parrot::Configure::Test::test_st​ep_constructor_and_description() to eliminate
13:56 dalek : repeated code.  Delete outdated comments.
13:56 dalek diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn​/parrot/revision?rev=29797
14:01 dalek r29798 | fperrad++ | trunk:
14:01 dalek : [Lua] OpenGL, refactor glut callback
14:01 dalek diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn​/parrot/revision?rev=29798
14:45 dalek r29799 | jkeenan++ | parallel:
14:45 dalek : [configure] Fine-tuning of tests for configuration steps.  Clarify POD.
14:45 dalek : Provide inline comments functioning as subheads where tests previously found
14:45 dalek : in multiple files have been moved into a single file.  Use
14:45 dalek : Parrot::Configure::Test::test_st​ep_constructor_and_description() to eliminate
14:45 dalek : repeated code.  Delete outdated comments.
14:45 dalek diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn​/parrot/revision?rev=29799
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15:48 dalek r29800 | jkeenan++ | parallel:
15:48 dalek : Provide inline comments functioning as subheads where tests previously found
15:48 dalek : in multiple files have been moved into a single file.
15:48 dalek diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn​/parrot/revision?rev=29800
15:53 dalek r29801 | jkeenan++ | parallel:
15:53 dalek : Restore incorrectly deleted subroutine import.
15:53 dalek diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn​/parrot/revision?rev=29801
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16:23 rurban Can someone merge #57296: [TODO] make install -C languages with #56554:[TODO] add languages/*/Makefile install targets please? The second is a duplicate but has a better description and a patch.
16:26 dalek r29802 | jkeenan++ | parallel:
16:26 dalek : [configure] Fine-tuning of tests for configuration steps.  Clarify POD.
16:26 dalek : Provide inline comments functioning as subheads where tests previously found
16:27 dalek : in multiple files have been moved into a single file.  Use
16:27 dalek : Parrot::Configure::Test::test_st​ep_constructor_and_description() to eliminate
16:27 dalek : repeated code.  Delete outdated comments.
16:27 dalek diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn​/parrot/revision?rev=29802
16:27 cognominal joined #parrot
16:28 kid51 rurban:  Which do you want to be the surviving ticket?
16:29 rurban #56554 please. But add the desc and patch from the newer to the older.
16:29 rurban I forgot that I already submitted this as TODO
16:30 rurban The patch is still about 50%, but it is getting bigger and bigger.
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16:34 kid51 Done.
16:35 rurban kid51++ thanks
16:36 japhb rurban: BTW, I don't like having our installed lib prefix be anything other than /usr/lib/parrot.  If the problem is that we will get /usr/lib/parrot/runtime/parrot/, then that is what needs to be fixed.  (Though I have realized what may be the reason for the seemingly pointless runtime/parrot -- someone's ancient expectation that languages would put their runtimes in runtime/ as well?
16:37 rurban I'm happy to get rid of runtime/parrot at run-time, but I will not change the src layout
16:37 rurban The languages put their runtimes into runtime/parrot/dynext
16:38 japhb In that case, /parrot/ should go away.
16:38 rurban Mostly needed is just runtime/parrot/include/config.pir, from PCT::HCTCompiler
16:38 japhb I realize you don't want to do this, but enter a ticket for it.  I will happily vote +1.
16:39 rurban The ticket already exists: #56996[TODO] remove non FHS-compliant searchpaths
16:39 rurban I finished now my final cygwin package for 0.6.4 and will evaluate eventual problems there.
16:40 rurban Then I will change the runtime paths to favor /usr/lib/parrot over /usr/runtime/parrot
16:41 rurban I believe there are still some more problematic errors in the run-time. Why does compiler/PCT/HLLCompiler loads config.pir at runtime? _config is already linked to the language.
16:42 rurban _config() should set some side-effects so that the run-time can detectd an already linked conf_hash and not try to load config.pir at runtime.
16:43 rurban problem is that config() is a function and no global hash
16:43 rurban I see no problem changing that from a function to a global hash
16:44 rurban This should help building with installed parrot also.
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16:46 japhb rurban: Two things: 1) As I mentioned in ticket 56996, we should prefer /usr/lib/parrot over /usr/runtime/parrot *NOW*.  2) I meant that you should enter a ticket for changing the source tree to get rid of /parrot/ under runtime/.  You don't have to be the one to implement it (I understand your reticence to make large changes to the repo), but it definitely needs a ticket.
16:48 rurban Do you really want to go this way? What I want is not to change the src layout and just fix the run-time behaviour for an installed parrot. This installable_perl should never check /usr/runtime
16:50 rurban But to accomplish this I must get rid of run-time access to config.pir wbecause I want only loading config.fpmc, and for installable@exe this is not needed at all, because config.fpmc is already linked to the binary.
16:50 rurban Checks in the build_dir should safely still access runtime/parrot/...
16:50 japhb That's why I suggest a ticket.  My preference would be to change the source tree, so that runtime/parrot/foo becomes runtime/foo, and we don't get an ugly installed version of /usr/lib/parrot/runtime/parrot/foo/, and there are no hacks in the code that try both .../runtime/parrot/foo and .../runtime/foo. That's just wasted stat()s.  It is possible someone may disagree with me, but we can argue that in the ticket.
16:51 rurban Ok. let's suggest changing the src layout, but this needs higher powers than me. So you would have to add this ticket :)
16:52 japhb Huh?
16:52 japhb Anyone can enter the ticket.
16:52 rurban Do you think it is good if I suggest such a major change?
16:52 japhb "As discussed with japhb in IRC ..."
16:52 japhb And then I will happily jump on the bandwagon.  :-)
16:52 kid51 japhb:  It looks like you're the one who's eager to have this new ticket.  Why don't you open it?
16:52 rurban well oh well. I'd rather keep it this way.
16:52 japhb OK, sheesh.
16:52 japhb fine, will do.
16:53 rurban :)
16:55 rurban What I want is just to clean out cornercases where the linked install_config.o is not used at all, and some lib still wants to access runtime/parrot/include/config.pir or such.
16:56 rurban And get rid of all runtime/ paths in the linked installables.
16:56 japhb That's a separate question.
16:56 rurban Some architect like Allison should explain that
16:57 rurban And I found cases where languages want to access compilers/... which are never installed. (lua)
16:57 japhb nod
16:57 rurban I wonder how debian,fedora, gentoo test their languages packages.
16:59 rurban japhb: Actually I dislike the idea to mv runtime/parrot/* to runtime/
16:59 japhb why?
16:59 rurban Righ now I have the simple workaround to symlink /usr/runtime to /usr/lib, which works fine for some months.
16:59 japhb As you mentioned, that workaround is just wrong.
17:00 japhb Debian would, as you said, never allow it.
17:00 rurban When all the langas haev been fixed I can remove the symlink
17:00 japhb rurban: It's not just the languages, it's load_bytecode
17:00 rurban yeah.
17:01 rurban I still have to read the differences between .include and load_bytecode though
17:01 japhb And load_bytecode either has to know that in some places it will use .../runtime/parrot/foo, and in others use .../runtime/foo, or we have to accept .../parrot/runtime/parrot/ in the installed space.  Which is wrong.
17:02 rurban I want load_bytecode and .include to know if there's a global conf_hash around.
17:03 rurban Maybe that's what interpinfo .INTERPINFO_RUNTIME_PREFIX is for.
17:07 japhb OK, ticket submitted
17:08 * japhb sends a good-natured raspberry in the general direction of kid51
17:09 rurban Ok, and I'm now fighting to get rid of unnecessary stats in config.pir, because _config should already be loaded.
17:09 japhb Fight the good fight, rurban!
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17:18 dalek r29803 | jkeenan++ | parallel:
17:18 dalek : [configure] Fine-tuning of tests for configuration steps.  Clarify POD.
17:18 dalek : Provide inline comments functioning as subheads where tests previously found
17:18 dalek : in multiple files have been moved into a single file.  Use
17:18 dalek : Parrot::Configure::Test::test_st​ep_constructor_and_description() to eliminate
17:18 dalek : repeated code.  Delete outdated comments.
17:18 dalek diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn​/parrot/revision?rev=29803
17:19 kid51 rurban:  Your work has certainly elevated the visibility of Cygwin in these parts.  I hope some day you do a conference presentation on Cygwin -- about which many, including myself, are very ignorant -- and on Cygwin in Parrot.
17:20 rurban well, Cygwin is irrelevant for these topics. debian and fedora should have also detected those problems.
17:20 rurban Just Win32 is a little bit different
17:21 rurban conferences: my day job doesn't allow me to travel too much. I work in Formula 1 and I'm very busy.
17:21 kid51 I can't recall a presentation on Cygwin at any YAPC::NA.
17:22 kid51 A perl.com article, perhaps?
17:22 rurban Well, from time to time I help out Indycar and nascar in the states. Then I'm in the area.
17:22 kid51 Or at least a posting on use.perl.org.
17:22 rurban use.perl.org is fine.
17:22 rurban I update my journal from time to time anyway.
17:22 rurban installation for pugs on cygwin e.g.
17:23 rurban or the latest cygwin release for parrot, and my progresses with the perl5 compiler B:C
17:24 rurban For the real hairy stuff you have to boot into a linux VM anyway to do some valgrind checking
17:24 rurban or some dtrace
17:26 rurban But basic strace or gdb sessions do work find for cygwin. Analyzing coredumps not so.
17:34 DietCoke joined #parrot
17:35 * DietCoke yawns.
17:48 rurban japhb: What's your ticket id? I just wrote a new use.perl journal
17:48 DietCoke hurm. in my working copy of partcl, I have a test that fails with 'make test', but works when run directly with prove t/cmd_vwait.t. bah.
17:53 rurban http://use.perl.org/~rurban/journal/37023
18:28 rurban rafl: ping fhs
18:28 purl I can't find fhs in the DNS.
18:58 dalek r29804 | coke++ | trunk:
18:58 dalek : [tcl] http://code.google.com/p/p​artcl/issues/detail?id=59
18:58 dalek : Part of the eventual switch to PCT involves changing how we attempt to compile.
18:58 dalek : This reverts tcl to a pure runtime dispatch for each command; The ".tmt"
18:58 dalek : files we had been using to generate PIR to use in place of the runtime call
18:58 dalek : are now gone.
18:58 dalek : In most cases, just used the version that had been automatically generated by
18:58 dalek : the original system.
18:58 dalek diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn​/parrot/revision?rev=29804
19:02 dalek r29805 | coke++ | trunk:
19:02 dalek : [tcl] bring documentation closer to reality.
19:02 dalek diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn​/parrot/revision?rev=29805
19:04 Theory joined #parrot
19:08 dalek r29806 | coke++ | trunk:
19:08 dalek : [tcl] rename make target 'tcl-test' to 'spectest'
19:08 dalek : (in harmony with ../perl6)
19:08 dalek diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn​/parrot/revision?rev=29806
19:13 * jonathan wanted coke to rename it to test-tcl
19:15 * DietCoke wonders how to do this in C: http://www.tcl.tk/man/tcl8​.5/TclCmd/tclvars.htm#M26
19:16 * DietCoke has an approximation in languages/tcl/src/pmc/tclfloat.pmc //get_string
19:16 jonathan DietCoke: pointerSize
19:16 jonathan ?
19:16 DietCoke jonathan: *blank stare*
19:17 jonathan DietCoke: Which bit of the document are you referring to?
19:17 DietCoke jonathan: tcl_precision
19:17 jonathan That link showed up with the pointerSize entry at the top of the page for me.
19:17 jonathan Aha.
19:17 * jonathan reads
19:17 DietCoke whoops. http://www.tcl.tk/man/tcl8​.5/TclCmd/tclvars.htm#M27
19:17 * DietCoke bets they renumbered the entries in the past 4 years.
19:18 jonathan DietCoke: Isn't it a sprintf formatting thing?
19:19 DietCoke I hope so; that would simplify the code. =-)
19:22 DietCoke hurm. I wonder if this was left in an over-complicated state.
19:25 jonathan DietCoke: %.*f or similar may do it (you invoke it as I guess something like printf("%.*f", THE_LENGTH, value) I think)
19:25 DietCoke the printf code in tclfloat is currently:         buff  = Parrot_sprintf_c(INTERP, "%.*vg", precision, PMC_num_val(SELF));
19:25 jonathan But you'll need to handle the default 0 case specially.
19:25 jonathan Aha. So is precision not just the tcl_precision value?
19:26 DietCoke ... at one point, using 0 for the precision did not have the desired result.
19:26 * DietCoke is trying to find out if that is still the case, or if something chnaged in the N years since this was written
19:27 jonathan In that case, I guess you need to test for that having a 0 as the tcl_precision and if so, do something different.
19:27 DietCoke ... yes, but -what-. =-)
19:27 DietCoke precision of 0 for parrot seems to mean "show only one sigfig"
19:30 jonathan Is what Tcl wants for the default value of 0 not the default if you just use %g?
19:32 DietCoke ah, that's better. =-)
19:33 DietCoke ah, here we go. Yes, %g gives results likeE:
19:33 DietCoke #      got : '0.785398'
19:33 DietCoke # expected : '0.7853981633974483'
19:33 DietCoke for tcl_precision=0, which now implies a simple %g.
19:37 Paul joined #parrot
19:37 Paul Hey everybody
19:37 purl everybody is depraved
19:37 DietCoke (I am trying to figure out if there is a %lg or %Hg or something that will work, but lg dies, and Hg gives me a lot of nans.
19:37 Paul i have a question
19:37 Paul i am developing my own scripting language
19:37 Paul and i am trying to decide on a VM
19:37 Paul so i ask
19:38 Paul what does parrot give me that the JVM does not already have
19:38 DietCoke depends on your scripting language.
19:38 moritz Paul: parrot is designed for dynamically typed languages
19:38 moritz Paul: JVM is higly optimized for statically typed ones
19:38 Paul it is dynamically typed
19:38 Paul ahhh
19:38 Paul thats very useful to know
19:39 Paul how is it optimized for dynamically typed languages?
19:40 moritz it doesn't require you to declare types on your variables ;-)
19:40 jonathan :-P
19:40 moritz Paul: maybe you might be interested in http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Parro​t_Virtual_Machine/Squaak_Tutorial
19:41 jonathan There are also a bunch of features that are supported in Parrot that dynamic languages often use, without needing to re-invent the wheel, which may well happen if compiling a dynamic language down to run on a static VM.
19:41 DietCoke moritz: that's misleading. :|
19:41 moritz DietCoke: yes, it is
19:41 jonathan For example, runtime of eval of code (calls back into compilers) are pretty trivial.
19:41 Paul moritz: What about mozilla rhino though? You don't have to declare types in javascript
19:42 moritz Paul: dunno, never played with that rhino thing
19:42 moritz Paul: may I ask what kind of language do you want to implement?
19:42 jonathan Paul: There are languages running on Parrot that allow and enforce type constraints/declarations, and there are many more that don't.
19:42 Paul They also have things like jython and a LISP compiler for the JVM
19:43 Paul I'm writing my own language for academic purposes
19:43 Paul that will have the features that I've always wanted in a language
19:44 jonathan Sure. I'm not sure if the JVM has a common framework for dynamic languages, like the .Net DLR (Dynamic Languages Runtime for the .Net CLR), to help factor out some of the common bits that dynamic languages need.
19:44 Schwern joined #parrot
19:44 jonathan Another attraction Parrot offers is its compiler toolkit.
19:45 jonathan Which means you end up mostly just writing the front-end of the compiler and not having to worry at all about code-gen.
19:46 jonathan (Because there's a common AST format, and a backend to transform it into the intermediate code)
19:49 jonathan moritz: You going to be at YAPC::EU, by the way?
19:49 Paul moritz: Thanks for that wikibooks link. I'm going to implement Squaak now and then work on my language afterwards.
19:52 moritz jonathan: sadly not :(
20:00 jonathan moritz: Ah, shame. :(
20:01 moritz indeed. Hopefully next year
20:01 jonathan In Soviet Russian, the YAPC attends you.
20:01 moritz ;-)
20:02 jonathan If they get it!
20:02 moritz btw I've seen your various bug fixes, jonathan++
20:02 moritz http://perlgeek.de/blog-en/perl-​6/huffman-tree-with-rakudo.html
20:02 jonathan I fear if they do, we'll have an entire conference of In Soviet Russia jokes. On the other hand, last time there was a YAPC in Portugal, it was three days of Perl programmers wearing fishnets...
20:03 jonathan moritz: Nice link! :-)
20:03 moritz thanks ;)
20:03 DietCoke jonathan: I threw my question out to p2.
20:05 Ademan joined #parrot
20:06 jonathan DietCoke: Cool. I'm afraid my printf not-exactly-fu was exhausted...
20:07 DietCoke thanks for trying. =-)
20:07 jonathan moritz: Seeing things like this makes me feel like we're getting somewhere.
20:08 moritz jonathan: I should start trying the various modules in ext/ in the pugs repo
20:09 moritz and speaking of "getting somewhere", I hope you've seen that STD.pm now parses 99% of the spec tests?
20:09 jonathan moritz: For sure. It'll be good to know what we're missing, if anything.
20:09 jonathan No, where is that written about?
20:09 jonathan But wow, that's good progress.
20:09 moritz http://www.perlmonks.org/?node_id=700400
20:09 jonathan Now we just need to get Rakudo to parse STD.pm. :-)
20:10 moritz TimToady sometimes annotated with commit messages with the percentages, the last one was 98%
20:10 moritz s/with/his/
20:10 moritz and I tried it a few hours ago, one test looping, one test failed, all other parsed correctly
20:10 jonathan Great.
20:11 jonathan We need more spectests.
20:11 jonathan ;-)
20:11 moritz and more larrys ;-)
20:11 moritz well, Auzon is working on that (more spectests)
20:11 moritz and I'm too, from time to time
20:12 jonathan Yes, I've noticed we're getting more and more.
20:12 cesar joined #parrot
20:12 jonathan I'm trying to make sure whenever I fix something or add something there's no tests for, I at least add some basic tests for it.
20:12 * Auzon is working on a monstrous regex test at present :)
20:12 jonathan Nice!
20:13 jonathan Auzon++
20:13 moritz with a plan of 500odd tests, iirc
20:13 Auzon Well, making it so Rakudo can run it, then adding more tests to fill it out.
20:13 Auzon 535, yes.
20:19 DietCoke Tene: ping
20:24 AndyA joined #parrot
20:33 DietCoke If anyone's looking for stuff to do, I have some stuff over in partcl that could use some attention. lemme know. =)
20:33 DietCoke (knowing tcl isn't really necessary)
20:42 cotto_home DietCoke, what did your comment on #56548 mean?
20:43 Limbic_Region joined #parrot
20:43 moritz jonathan: maybe you want to take at look at t/spec/S06-multi/type-based.t - it has some basic tests, and rakudo dies on the first of them with "no applicable methods."
20:43 moritz jonathan: for somethings as complicated as Str
20:50 jonathan moritz: Str has issues.
20:50 jonathan Str as a type constraint doesn't work so great in a couple of places.
20:50 jonathan I should try and work out why.
20:51 jonathan But I'm happy to see that test file - it's new, right?
20:51 moritz yes, just moved it to spec/ a few minutes ago
20:52 moritz ok, dispatching to Int works
20:52 moritz but not to Num and Str
20:53 moritz uhm, because the test is wrong ;-)
20:54 moritz it assumes that +'4' is Num, not Int
20:55 moritz I'm currently correcting and fudging the test
20:58 Tene DietCoke: pong
21:00 jonathan moritz: Num should accept anything that Int does.
21:01 jonathan Rakudo probably gets that wrong right now.
21:01 moritz jonathan: yes, but that test is still wrong, because there's an Int multi as well
21:06 DietCoke tene; just wondering if you're looking for more work. =-)
21:09 DietCoke (on the off chance you are: compileTcl in tcl currently returns a bunch of PIR that all goes into a single, top level .sub; for each command, it needs to generate an :immediate sub. (That seems to be the easiest way to switch us over to the current tcl behavior which runs every command as soon as it's parsed.
21:09 DietCoke I also expect it to speed up tcl, since we won't be beating the hell out of the register allocator.
21:11 jonathan moritz: Ah. Makes sense.
21:12 DietCoke Tene: http://code.google.com/p/partcl/issues/detail?id=2
21:14 Ademan joined #parrot
21:16 dalek r29807 | coke++ | trunk:
21:16 dalek : [tcl] make [incr] autovivify, unTODOing some internal & spec tests.
21:16 dalek diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn​/parrot/revision?rev=29807
21:24 cotto_home DietCoke, nm.  I didn't realize you had top-posted.
21:37 bacek joined #parrot
21:46 dalek r29808 | moritz++ | trunk:
21:46 dalek : [rakudo] added S06-multi/type-based.t to spectest_regression
21:46 dalek :  +5 pass, +13 skip
21:46 dalek diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn​/parrot/revision?rev=29808
21:47 Theory joined #parrot
22:07 Ademan joined #parrot
22:23 teknomunk joined #parrot
23:23 TiMBuS joined #parrot
23:25 teknomunk_ joined #parrot
23:28 Tene DietCoke: looks like fun.  I might look at it tomorrow.
23:29 DietCoke Tene: excellent. =-)
23:30 Tene I have trouble getting interested in work on tcl, 'cos I've never really used it for anything.  I've tried a few times.
23:30 Tene Although, no, that can't be the reason.  I've never used lolcode or ruby either.
23:31 Tene Maybe they have different reasons to be interesting?  dunno.
23:33 DietCoke part of the problem might be that the codebase is so different. if it were more PCT-like, would that make it easier?
23:33 DietCoke or is it just that "tcl is wierd"? =-)
23:34 Tene That would help a lot, yes.
23:34 Tene Perhaps you should rewrite tcl using PCT.
23:34 Tene ;)
23:34 Whiteknight joined #parrot

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