Camelia, the Perl 6 bug

IRC log for #parrot, 2008-10-23

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Time Nick Message
00:09 AndyA joined #parrot
00:13 allison pmichaud: yup, very helpful, I've crystallized my collection of options down to one I currently prefer, and am writing up the details for Andrew
00:43 dalek r32120 | allison++ | pdd22io:
00:43 dalek : Creating branch for I/O PDD implementation.
00:43 dalek diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn​/parrot/revision?rev=32120
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01:48 dalek r32121 | jkeenan++ | trunk:
01:48 dalek : To avoid this warning:
01:48 dalek : Use of uninitialized value $ENV{"TEST_PROG_ARGS"} in pattern match (m//) at
01:48 dalek : t/op/bitwise.t line 510.
01:48 dalek : test for definedness of $ENV{"TEST_PROG_ARGS"} before testing pattern match.
01:48 dalek diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn​/parrot/revision?rev=32121
02:19 dalek r32122 | pmichaud++ | lex:
02:19 dalek : create a branch to re-work lexical handling
02:19 dalek diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn​/parrot/revision?rev=32122
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03:03 stockwellb is it reasonable for a non perl programer to learn Perl 6 as their first go at Perl?
03:03 Tene stockwellb: depends on whether you're asking if it would be useful or if it would be feasible.
03:04 Tene It's certainly feasible.  It's probably not useful yet.
03:04 Hinrik it would probably be more fun to learn Perl 5 because you can do much more with it
03:04 stockwellb could you elaborate on why it wouldn't be useful?
03:05 Hinrik and if you know Perl 5 then Perl 6 isn't that hard to learn
03:05 Tene The only problem is that some parts of Perl 6 are defined as "the same as in Perl 5", so there are some omissions from the specification.
03:05 Tene Sure.  There's not much useful you can do with Perl 6 right now without a lot of work.
03:05 Tene Except work on Parrot, mostly.
03:05 Hinrik stockwellb: because there are not complete Perl 6 implementations
03:06 Hinrik and Perl 6 the language is still being designed
03:07 Hinrik as an example, last month these changes were made to the language: http://perlgeek.de/blog-en/​perl-6/tidings-2008-10.html
03:07 Hinrik and probably others
03:08 stockwellb so the migration path for new commers is still via Perl 5. You don't think there will be too much to unlearn. Is it worth waiting?
03:08 Tene stockwellb: Depends on what your goals are.  If you want to do productive things with it right now, 5 is better to learn.
03:08 Hinrik not too much
03:08 Hinrik Perl 6 will still be Perl
03:09 Tene 6 isn't too much of a change.  Pretty easy migration path.
03:09 stockwellb I'm not worried about productivity. Most of my paying work is in c#, ruby and python. This really is strickly for balls out fun.
03:10 Hinrik then learn both :P
03:10 Hinrik but I suggest starting with Perl 5
03:10 Tene 6 is a fun language, 5 has lots of exciting modules on cpan
03:10 Tene those are the bright features for me.
03:10 stockwellb I'm not sure my brain will take well to learning 5 and 6 and PIR at the same time.
03:11 Hinrik 5 is fun too, 6 is just fun+1
03:11 Hinrik you wouldn't have to learn PIR unless you want to get into implementing languages on parrot
03:11 Tene Which he does, iirc.
03:12 stockwellb Actually I really like PIR. Learning it may be a waste of time professionally, but I really like it. There is something primal about it.
03:13 Hinrik heh
03:17 Hinrik they way I see it: the easiest way to learn a language is by using it, and Perl 5 is infinitely more useful than Perl 6 at the moment, and failing that, most of the material on learning Perl 6 assumes that the reader knows Perl 5 anyway...
03:22 stockwellb It's PIR that I'm really after, It's just obviously such a Perl environment that I felt It might be smart to learn how the locals speak.
03:22 * Tene sleeps.
03:23 stockwellb If only at a very basic level.
03:24 Hinrik a copy of Programming Perl would probably prove useful
03:24 stockwellb I was looking at that in Barnes and Noble the other day.
03:33 chromatic It's current as of 5.6.0, unfortunately.
03:34 cotto are there plans for a new version?
03:34 TimToady tchrist is working on one
03:35 cotto tchrist++ then
03:38 chromatic http://www.perl.com/pub/a/2008/04/23/a-​beginners-introduction-to-perl-510.html
03:40 stockwellb heh... swiss army chainsaw. I like that.
03:41 Hinrik the current version is remarkably relevant for its age, though
03:42 stockwellb ubuntu 7.10 comes with Perl 5.8.8. I should get 5.10 and compile it?
03:43 Hinrik ubuntu 8.10 comes with Perl 5.10
03:43 stockwellb subtle hint to upgrade?!
03:44 Hinrik I don't use any of the 5.10 features though, not enough to warrant a dependency on it anyway :P
03:44 Hinrik but say() is convenient for some one-liners if you're into golfing
03:46 stockwellb It's getting late on the east coast. Nite everyone one!
03:47 chromatic It's pretty easy to compile and install 5.10 alongside an existing 5.8.
03:48 stockwellb I'll look into that. thanks chromatic. I'm off to bed!
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05:26 pmichaud I'm trying to add a new opcode in the 'lex' branch, but after doing 'make' I keep getting a "skipped opcode is also in ..." error at the tools/build/ops2pm.pl step.  What have I forgotten?
05:26 particle1 i think there's a util to add an op...
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05:26 pmichaud there's the make 'opsrenumber' target
05:26 particle1 maybe
05:27 pmichaud i.e., I added my new op to src/ops/core.ops, then did "make opsrenumber'
05:27 pmichaud that regenerated src/ops/ops.num
05:27 particle1 it's possible that this used to work but was changed and nobody tested
05:28 particle1 but, i'm not willing to give up yet
05:28 pmichaud it has changed, yes -- previously there was a special makefile that was run.
05:30 particle1 i just added an op to experimental. rebuilding
05:30 particle1 inline op erk(out INT) {
05:30 particle1 $1 = 1;
05:30 particle1 }
05:31 particle1 looks like it's building fine. i'll move it to core.ops and rebuild
05:32 particle1 erk_i                                FATAL: not in ops.num nor ops.skip
05:32 particle1 ok running make renumber
05:32 pmichaud try "make opsrenumber"
05:32 particle1 hole in ops.num before #1 at lib/Parrot/Ops2pm.pm line 122, <$op> line 38.
05:33 particle1 is this what you get?
05:33 pmichaud not exactly
05:33 particle1 oh, nm
05:34 particle1 skipped opcode is also in src/ops/ops.num at lib/Parrot/Ops2pm.pm line 145, <$op> line 11.
05:34 particle1 sorry, i tried to add the op before 'end' which *must* be opcode 0
05:34 particle1 now i put the op at the end of core.ops and got that error
05:34 pmichaud I'm putting mine right before the newclosure op
05:34 pmichaud skipped opcode is also in src/ops/ops.num at lib/Parrot/Ops2pm.pm line 145, <$op> line 11.
05:34 purl i already had it that way, pmichaud.
05:35 particle1 ok, looks like a bug. *sigh*
05:35 particle1 i bet the test coverage is high on this file
05:35 particle1 *sigh*
05:35 pmichaud shall I file a ticket or message to dev list?
05:36 particle1 ticket, for sure
05:36 particle1 i'll investigate a bit now, though i'm wiped out so bear with me
05:36 pmichaud I'm wiped out also -- was ready to simply add an opcode to the branch, commit, and then to bed, but don't have a lot of energy for troubleshooting much further :-(
05:37 particle1 hrmm...
05:37 particle1 i wonder
05:38 particle1 are there any ops in both ops.skip and ops.num
05:39 pmichaud good guess
05:39 particle1 yes, there are
05:39 pmichaud try reverting, then do "make opsrenumber" and then "make"
05:39 pmichaud we get the same error.
05:39 particle1 aye
05:39 particle1 it's from the mmd merge
05:40 particle1 the special skipped ops were never removed from ops.skip
05:40 pmichaud *of course it is*  B-|
05:40 particle1 yeah, this was a failed merge. we have lessons to learn with this one
05:41 pmichaud shall I still file a ticket?
05:41 particle1 if you have th estreagth, yes
05:41 particle1 erk
05:41 particle1 *the strength
05:42 pmichaud okay, writing ticket
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05:49 pmichaud ticket filed.
05:49 pmichaud time for sleep.
05:49 pmichaud any word on booking travel?
05:49 particle1 i was hoping to get a response from allison, but nada
05:49 particle1 go ahead, i'll book mine tomorrow as well
05:50 particle1 we can talk more tomorrow about timing for sunday evening, if you wish
05:50 pmichaud I may go ahead and make the reservation (to hold the price), I think I'll have 24 or 48 hours to purchase.
05:50 particle1 ok
05:50 pmichaud I've already decided I'll book a very late flight on Sunday
05:50 pmichaud (9:30p from SJC)
05:51 pmichaud it goes through LAX instead of direct to DFW, but then there's no question about missing anything important at the summit, and I'm still back home on Monday morning
05:57 particle1 it seems the answer is to eliminate all entries in ops.skip
05:58 particle1 yeah, that's a late flight alright
05:58 nopaste "particle" at 98.232.28.49 pasted "src/ops/seen.pl" (25 lines) at http://nopaste.snit.ch/14377
05:59 particle1 that's the hack i used to determine it
06:01 pmichaud oops, I was wrong, 9:10p from SJC :-)
06:01 pmichaud anyway, I have the reservation held until Friday 23:59p, so have a good fare locked in until then
06:06 particle1 -responded to you ticket
06:06 particle1 i'm bedward &
06:13 dalek r32123 | chromatic++ | trunk:
06:13 dalek : [src] Tidied PIC file to make the code somewhat easier to follow; no functional
06:13 dalek : changes.
06:13 dalek diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn​/parrot/revision?rev=32123
06:31 dalek r32124 | chromatic++ | trunk:
06:31 dalek : [src] Made fetch_arg_op() always create a COW STRING from constant STRINGs
06:31 dalek : stored in the bytecode so that callees never modify constant strings
06:31 dalek : unilaterally.  This is a more generic fix for RT #60030 and supersedes r32076.
06:31 dalek diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn​/parrot/revision?rev=32124
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07:37 rene hi
07:38 rene anyone interested in listing the T2 SDE package of parrot on the download page?
07:38 rene http://www.t2-project.org/packages/parrot.html
07:38 rene http://www.parrot.org/download
07:39 chromatic What's T2 SDE?
07:39 rene an open source System Development Environment
07:39 rene kind of a source distribution, but with cross build support and tiny c libraries, like uclibc and dietlibc
07:39 chromatic Does Parrot work with tiny libcs?
07:40 rene used by some folks like gentoo on workstations, and by others to cross build products ...
07:40 rene at least it passes tests with glibc and eglibc
07:40 rene do not know uclibc off hand
07:40 rene not all t2 packages do neccessarily have to support the tinier uclibc or dietlibc ones
07:40 chromatic I'm curious to see the shared library size when linked against one of those.  Interesting.
07:41 rene I can spin a quick uclibc test build if you like
07:41 chromatic Sure; I'm going to sleep now, but I'll backlog the results.
07:43 rene of course a whole lot influences the size, including e.g. -Os vs. -O2 etc...
07:45 chromatic Not as much as you might think, at least with my tests.
07:45 moritz rene: added to http://www.parrot.org/download
07:45 chromatic Anyhow, thanks for reporting the new package.
07:46 rene moritz: thanks, too :-)
07:47 dalek r32125 | fperrad++ | trunk:
07:47 dalek : [Lua] bytecode translation
07:47 dalek : - now generate .tailcall
07:47 dalek diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn​/parrot/revision?rev=32125
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09:49 dalek r32126 | bernhard++ | trunk:
09:49 dalek : [docs] Report success with gcc 4.2.4
09:49 dalek diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn​/parrot/revision?rev=32126
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11:00 moritz purl, karma C++
11:00 purl c++ has karma of -80
11:12 szbalint how did that happen? :)
11:13 moritz nobody ever writes C++++ but C++-- somtimes is appropriate ;)
11:13 bacek_ joined #parrot
11:13 bacek evening everyone
11:13 bacek hi purl
11:13 moritz mahlzeit ;)
11:13 purl hola, bacek.
11:13 bacek :)
11:14 cognominal joined #parrot
11:14 bacek moritz: gutten tag
11:14 bacek (sorry for my bad language ;)
11:15 moritz s/tt/t/, apart from that it's fine ;)
11:16 dalek r32127 | bernhard++ | trunk:
11:16 dalek : [Pipp] add a TODO test for attribute access
11:16 dalek diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn​/parrot/revision?rev=32127
11:17 bacek moritz: did you see my message about "todo" in Str.pir?
11:18 moritz bacek: yes, but had no tuits so far
11:19 * bacek going to find some tuits for moritz ;)
11:20 bacek moritz: any outstanding bugs for ex-developer?
11:20 * barney found a tuit from YAPC::EU
11:21 moritz bacek: dunno, I have no overview whatsoever atm
11:21 bacek barney: throw it to moritz!
11:21 moritz somebody write my diploma thesis, then I'll hack on parrot
11:21 moritz (and on the test suite)
11:22 barney What's it about ?
11:22 purl it's always about the BOOBIES
11:22 moritz barney: spin transport phaenomena on mesoscopic scales
11:22 moritz (spin hall effect and so on)
11:23 moritz actually I'm just about to begin with it, and already have no time ;(
11:25 barney experimental or theoretical ?
11:25 moritz theoretical
11:25 purl i think theoretical is 1.54Mbps
11:25 szbalint C++++
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13:14 dalek r32128 | bernhard++ | trunk:
13:14 dalek : [Pipp] add rule 'member' with a dummy action
13:14 dalek diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn​/parrot/revision?rev=32128
13:14 * barney learned the hard way that rebuilding pipp.pbc doesn't really rebuild the fakecutable pipp
13:14 stockwellb I upgraded to ubuntu 8.04 LTS and now I'm getting make errors. Any ideas?
13:14 nopaste "stockwellb" at 70.160.222.145 pasted "make error" (4 lines) at http://nopaste.snit.ch/14378
13:14 particle stockwellb: did you make realclean?
13:15 particle or is this a fresh co?
13:15 stockwellb fresh co
13:15 particle did you make -j?
13:15 stockwellb line 189 is a parrot include
13:15 barney Kubuntu 8.04 works for me
13:15 stockwellb make -j?
13:15 purl it has been said that make -j is good
13:16 particle make -j is parallel make
13:16 particle we've occasionally had problems with that
13:16 stockwellb like parallel universe :0
13:16 stockwellb I'll try it right now.
13:17 particle can you make sure runtime/parrot/include/interpinfo.pasm exists?
13:18 stockwellb interpinfo.pasm does exist.
13:18 stockwellb I checked that first thing.
13:19 stockwellb make -j gave me all sorts of No such file or directory errors
13:19 stockwellb side note, what irc client do you folks use. This ircii is very boring looking.
13:20 barney Do you have an installed parrot? What does 'which parrot' say ?
13:20 stockwellb which parrot says /usr/local/bin/parrot which is a symlink to my build dir.
13:23 particle i don't understand why that's happening. can you try make realclean && perl Configure.pl && make
13:23 stockwellb I'm doing that as we speak.
13:26 stockwellb particle: same error.
13:27 particle i irc from windows, and use pidgin, btw
13:27 particle many folks love irssi and customize it wildly
13:28 szbalint irssi++
13:28 szbalint karma irssi
13:28 purl irssi has karma of 208
13:28 PerlJam irssi++ indeed
13:28 szbalint that many flies can't be wrong...
13:29 particle stockwellb: try running that command (./parrot -o ...) manually
13:29 stockwellb i was using bitchx but that package isn't available now. I'm installing irssi right now
13:30 stockwellb okay, I'm loggin out and I'll be right back.
13:30 stockwellb joined #parrot
13:30 masak joined #parrot
13:30 stockwellb irssi is much better!
13:31 szbalint a clean, dry experience
13:32 stockwellb particle: what next?
13:32 particle stockwellb: try running that command (./parrot -o ...) manually
13:32 stockwellb I did already. It bombs. I'll try again just to make sure.
13:33 particle ok, i didn't see that response
13:33 stockwellb yea it's like parrot doens't know where it's include path is.
13:33 particle right
13:33 ruoso joined #parrot
13:35 particle make tags && vim -t parrot_init_library_paths
13:35 particle ...if you're a vim user
13:35 particle the library paths are defined in src/library.c, line 142
13:36 particle why they're not found...
13:36 stockwellb I'm a young vim user. Haven't done tags. I run the command as you've typed it in vim?
13:37 particle vim -t foo searches your tags file for a tag named 'foo' and brings you to the location
13:37 particle vim src/library +142 will open to line 142
13:38 particle so, you can do either
13:38 stockwellb I get no tags found
13:39 particle you need "make tags" first
13:39 particle or maybe i misspelled the function...
13:39 stockwellb no rule 'tags'
13:40 particle hey, what happened!?!?
13:40 purl We don't know what happened, so tell everyone nothing happened.
13:40 particle where is the tags make target?
13:40 particle uggh.
13:41 particle maybe it's been renamed
13:41 PerlJam make help
13:41 purl make help is my friend
13:41 stockwellb I feel like I've been renamed... from bruce to whiner.
13:41 PerlJam looks like it's tags-vi
13:41 particle tags-vi apparently
13:42 nopaste joined #parrot
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13:42 nopaste "stockwellb" at 70.160.222.145 pasted "make error" (13 lines) at http://nopaste.snit.ch/14379
13:42 stockwellb errors!
13:43 particle sudo apt-get install exuberant-ctags
13:43 particle perl Configure.pl && make tags-vi
13:43 gryphon joined #parrot
13:45 stockwellb ok, I'm at the function in library.c
13:45 particle all this was just to show you that the paths are defined
13:46 stockwellb I see them
13:46 stockwellb aaaaand I've learned something.
13:46 particle it doesn't get us closer to fixing it
13:46 particle good :)
13:47 particle i have ubuntu 8.10 (i think i skipped 8.04) and everything just works
13:47 particle but i don't think this is an ubuntu problem
13:47 particle actually, i have no idea why it's a problem at all
13:48 stockwellb when I was 7.10 I did a reallyinstall.
13:48 stockwellb could that be causing problems
13:48 particle possibly, but the command is specifically running ./parrot
13:48 stockwellb true
13:49 PerlJam if parrot was compiled shared and installed, even ./parrot could be using the wrong lib
13:49 PerlJam (unless LD_LIBRARY_PATH is set correctly)
13:50 particle well then, it can be a reallyinstall problem
13:50 PerlJam stockwellb: in general, don't install parrot.  It's bad mojo (still)
13:50 PerlJam (unless your specifically going to fix that bad mojo  :-)
13:50 stockwellb I know that now!
13:51 particle i don't know how to uninstall it. locate libparrot i guess
13:51 particle libparrot.so that is
13:52 stockwellb its in /usr/local/lib
13:52 particle yeah, that's a problem
13:52 particle hopefully, it's *the* problem
13:53 stockwellb and in /usr/lib
13:53 stockwellb should I kill them
13:53 particle yes please!
13:53 stockwellb both?
13:53 purl both is country *and* western or salt and MSG
13:53 particle yes
13:53 particle they belong only in the build dir
13:54 particle ...and you haven't built them there yet.
13:54 stockwellb libparrot.a  libparrot.so  libparrot.so.0.4.13
13:54 stockwellb safe to kill all three
13:54 particle ooh, that's old. yes
13:56 stockwellb ok all six files have been deleted. clean configure and make right?
13:56 particle yep
13:57 apeiron joined #parrot
14:01 stockwellb same error.
14:02 PerlJam stockwellb: what was the errro?
14:02 PerlJam er, error
14:02 particle the error isn't instructive
14:02 nopaste "stockwellb" at 70.160.222.145 pasted "make error" (6 lines) at http://nopaste.snit.ch/14381
14:04 PerlJam stockwellb: is your parrot from svn or the release tarball?
14:04 stockwellb from svn
14:04 PerlJam Have your tried nuking your WC and checking it out again?
14:04 PerlJam s/your/you
14:05 stockwellb yes I have.
14:06 particle the problem is outside the wc
14:06 particle it's definitely due to a previous reallyinstall
14:06 particle i just don't know how to clean that up
14:06 stockwellb yet it worked with ubuntu 7.10?!
14:07 Tene Just write a cron job to make reallyinstall every 20 minutes
14:07 stockwellb I don't get the humor in that?
14:07 dalek r32129 | bernhard++ | trunk:
14:07 dalek : [Pipp] Add directory for test scripts written in PHP
14:07 dalek diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn​/parrot/revision?rev=32129
14:07 dalek r32130 | bernhard++ | trunk:
14:07 dalek : [codingstd] Update MANIFEST, as a new file has been added
14:07 dalek diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn​/parrot/revision?rev=32130
14:08 Tene stockwellb: most people don't get much of my humor.
14:08 stockwellb I'm probably not learned enough to appreciate it.
14:08 Tene No, you just haven't learned to ignore me yet. :)
14:08 dalek r32131 | bernhard++ | trunk:
14:08 dalek : [codingstd] add SVN props for new file
14:08 dalek diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn​/parrot/revision?rev=32131
14:08 NotFound joined #parrot
14:09 stockwellb Ok, I'm really really sorry I ran reallyinstall!
14:09 Tene Nah, it's fine.  I did it several times before I learned not to.
14:10 stockwellb Several? Perhaps there is hope for me.
14:10 barney Last time I had the 'make reallyinstall' problem I did a "find /usr/local  '*parrot*'"   and deleted all files manually
14:10 bpphillips joined #parrot
14:10 Tene could work
14:10 PerlJam stockwellb: barney's solution sounds reasonable to me too
14:11 stockwellb Ok, there are definately a grunch of files in there.
14:12 stockwellb a bunch in /usr/local/runtime
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14:15 stockwellb should I kill /usr/local/runtime? it's empty now.
14:16 Tene doesn't hurt either way
14:16 stockwellb so it's definately a parrot dir
14:17 stockwellb running make...
14:19 stockwellb uhggg!!
14:20 stockwellb same error.
14:20 stockwellb find /usr/local *parrot* returns no files now.
14:21 pmichaud try   find /usr/local -name '*parrot*'
14:22 stockwellb ah yes, more file thingies.
14:22 pmichaud (the asterisks need escaping from the shell, thus the quotes.)
14:24 particle this needs to go into the faq
14:24 pmichaud or we need a 'make reallyuninstall'  :-P
14:25 particle are you sure you want to uninstall? it may fix your system. if so, type make reallyuninstall.
14:25 Tene make maybeinstall
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14:28 stockwellb all the pbc* binarys are parrots right?
14:29 particle *.pbc probably
14:29 stockwellb no in /usr/local/bin
14:29 stockwellb pbc_disassemble
14:29 stockwellb pbc_info
14:29 particle ah, pbc_* yes
14:29 stockwellb pdump?
14:29 purl pdump is, like, just that well named ;)
14:29 particle yes
14:30 particle pdb
14:30 Tene We should disable the reallyinstall target for now, to prevent things like this from happening?
14:31 stockwellb Great, I'm the poster child for stupid parrot tricks.
14:31 particle no
14:31 particle we should improve the message for 'make install'
14:31 Tene No, it's just that nobody has had enough incentive yet to actually FIX installing.
14:31 pmichaud the whole point of 'reallyinstall' was to make people think twice about it
14:31 particle it's unclear what the ramifications of installing are
14:31 particle rurban has been working on fixing install
14:31 Tene We really really do need to get it fixed before 1.0, but it hasn't been important enough yet with 1.0 still a decent ways off.
14:31 Tene rurban++
14:33 NotFound I tryied recently to install in a non privileged directory, and using LD_RUNTIME_PATH to locate the dynamic library all seems to work as expected.
14:33 stockwellb Damn. Still the same error
14:35 stockwellb would installing and uninstalling the 0.4 package help?
14:35 stockwellb via apt-get
14:35 particle huh, what? you installed a package?
14:35 particle definitely
14:35 NotFound stockwellb: The ctags error you pasted before?
14:35 particle sudo apt-get remove parrot-0.4.13 or whatever
14:36 stockwellb way back I installed 0.4 then unistalled it when I decided to get the svn src.
14:36 stockwellb I'm just shooting in the dark.
14:38 stockwellb NotFound: what do you want from me?
14:39 NotFound stockwellb: I don't understand what do you care about make tags-vi
14:40 stockwellb NotFound: particle was showing me something.
14:41 dalek r32132 | bernhard++ | trunk:
14:41 dalek : [Pipp] Try to simplify t/harness and add support for tests
14:41 dalek : written in PHP and executed in the non-default variants of Pipp.
14:41 dalek diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn​/parrot/revision?rev=32132
14:41 jq joined #parrot
14:42 hercynium joined #parrot
14:43 Andy joined #parrot
14:45 stockwellb libparrot-0.4.13 was still showing as an installed package. I removed it, make realclean, Configure.pl, make. Still same error.
14:46 particle nuke the site from orbit
14:46 stockwellb aye captain!
14:47 stockwellb nuke deployed... rebuilding from scratch!
14:48 stockwellb 7 1/2 minutes to midnight.
14:52 PerlJam Isn't that an Iron Maiden song?  ;)
14:52 stockwellb I'm not sure. I was just referencing the doomsday clock.
14:53 stockwellb Still the same error!!
14:54 particle have you considered running windows? ;)
14:54 stockwellb Ouch!
14:55 stockwellb So we're at wits end?
14:55 particle i r
14:55 particle i wish rurban was around
14:55 stockwellb frack!
14:56 stockwellb Perhaps he'll be around this evening?
14:56 particle i haven't installed parrot since 0.0.6 btw :)
14:56 particle and that was 5 machines ago
14:56 stockwellb apparently installing parrot is not such a good idea.
14:57 particle i really don't know why what you've done to uninstall isn't enough
14:57 PerlJam stockwellb: can you give me access to the machine?  I may have a little time to look at it.
14:57 stockwellb I really don't know how to do that?
14:57 stockwellb remote?
14:57 purl remote is the HTTP connection
14:57 NotFound stockwellb: Have you deleted any symbolic link you created for the install?
14:58 particle parrot -v
14:58 stockwellb I kept the symlink in /usr/local that points to build dir.
14:58 particle hopefully there's no 'parrot' left
14:59 stockwellb parrot --version says 0.8.0-devel
14:59 NotFound stockwellb: delete it
14:59 particle it == the symlink?
15:00 NotFound Yes
15:00 pmichaud particle:  think I should commit chromatic's patch in RT #60070?  It seems to fix 'make opsrenumber' for me
15:00 stockwellb how do you rm a symlink
15:00 particle pmichaud: i reviewed it but didn't test. if it works, go for it
15:00 PerlJam stockwellb: with rm :)
15:01 stockwellb damn it was a typo that's why it didn't work.
15:01 stockwellb symlink gone.
15:01 stockwellb no more whereis parrot
15:06 stockwellb PerlJam: same error.
15:06 stockwellb The only parrot that exists now is in the build dir.
15:07 NotFound stockwellb: make a realclean and reconfigure and rebuild, to be sure.
15:07 PerlJam stockwellb: Seriously, I was trying to think of an appropriate response if you said "same error" and now you have.  Format the disk.  Wipe it with magnets. Reinstall the OS.  etc.
15:07 dalek r32133 | bernhard++ | trunk:
15:07 dalek : [Pipp] add test file for working on a simple testing lib in PHP
15:07 dalek diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn​/parrot/revision?rev=32133
15:08 stockwellb NotFound: I did just that.
15:10 stockwellb PerlJam: I've actually got paying work on this partition, so I'm trying to be careful. That's why I was still running ubuntu 7.10. I was just being cautious.
15:10 stockwellb I should have stayed cautious.
15:11 stockwellb Parrot worked fine until I upgraded.
15:12 pmichaud I'm running 8.04 with no problems.  I tried installing 8.10 beta on my notebook last week and it failed to install, so I'm waiting for next week's release before trying 8.10 again.
15:13 NotFound stockwellb: I upgraded ubuntu on several machines with parrot, and never have such problems.
15:13 stockwellb why me!!!!
15:13 PerlJam stockwellb: so ... in my copy of parrot, line 189 of parrotlib.pir is including interpinfo.pasm.   do you have interpinfo.pasm?
15:14 stockwellb yes I have that file.
15:14 moritz in any case, after an OS upgrade you should 'make realclean' and rebuild it from scratch, because some tools might have changed
15:14 particle moritz: done and done
15:14 PerlJam stockwellb: where is it located?
15:14 NotFound General rule: after any problem, make realclean ;)
15:14 PerlJam stockwellb: And, perhaps more importantly, where is parrot looking for it?
15:14 NotFound Or even before the problem
15:14 particle the problem is: ubuntu 7.04 -> make reallyinstall -> upgrade ubuntu -> kablooey
15:15 * Infinoid has "make realclean; svn update; perl Configure.pl; make -j8 test" in muscle memory
15:15 stockwellb it's in the runtime/parrot/include dir
15:15 particle Infinoid: why even bother with a number after -j?
15:15 Infinoid habit.  the linux kernel runs you out of system RAM when you do that.
15:16 Infinoid thousands of gcc processes executing at once = bad
15:16 PerlJam stockwellb: it's like the version of parrot you're running isn't looking in the right place.   That would imply that you've still got some remnants of the previous parrot installation hanging around.
15:16 PerlJam stockwellb: are there any parrot-related environment variables in your environment?
15:16 stockwellb and a good way to check that would be?
15:16 moritz env|grep -i parrot
15:17 moritz env | grep -i ld_
15:17 NotFound stockwellb: find / -name "*parrot*"
15:17 PerlJam I usually env | sort | less and scan manually just in case (the list is usually small enough)
15:17 Infinoid if make reallyinstall put some stuff in /usr/local, you can probably do a find to get those files
15:17 stockwellb gasp!! PARROT_RUNTIME=/usr/lib !!!
15:18 PerlJam ding!
15:18 stockwellb I know how to set it, how do I kill it
15:18 PerlJam unset PARROT_RUNTIME
15:19 PerlJam (is that set in your profile or something?)
15:19 NotFound stockwellb: look at /etc/profile and family, maybe the package you had installed set it, and don't unset at uninstall
15:20 NotFound But first grep PARROT_RUNTIME .* in your home directory
15:20 stockwellb nothing in /etc/profile
15:21 stockwellb grep PARROT_RUNTIME .* shows bash_history only
15:22 NotFound grep -R PARROT_RUTIME /etc/
15:22 stockwellb nothing
15:22 NotFound N
15:22 stockwellb N?
15:22 purl N is, like, load runner with a physics engine, robots, and ninjas or for Neville who died of ennui
15:23 NotFound grep -R PARROT_RUNTIME /etc/
15:23 NotFound Don't copy my typo ;)
15:23 PerlJam stockwellb: btw, you might want to install ack if you haven't already  :)
15:23 Andy ALL THE COOL KIDS RUN IT
15:24 stockwellb PARROT_RUNTIME was in /etc/environment
15:24 stockwellb I removed it.
15:25 stockwellb I'm typing like a one legged man in an ass kicking contest. I've got no time for installing ack!!
15:26 Andy yes you do
15:26 NotFound stockwellb: close your session to completely get rid of it
15:26 Andy sudo cpan App::Ack
15:26 stockwellb by session you mean my terminal right?
15:26 PerlJam stockwellb: yes
15:26 NotFound stockwellb: the X session
15:27 stockwellb can I compile now?
15:27 NotFound stockwellb: recheck the environment
15:29 stockwellb still there.
15:30 particle you're typing too slowly.
15:30 NotFound stockwellb: close the X session. If not, any terminal you open still inherits it from the main process
15:30 particle how do you restart x?
15:30 NotFound You don't need to restart the server, just the user session
15:30 particle ah
15:31 particle nuke the site from orbit
15:31 purl it's the only way to be sure.
15:31 particle ...that's all i know how to do sometimes... :)
15:31 stockwellb alright I'm loggin off of here. logging off session... be back soon.
15:32 NotFound particle: BTW, control-alt-backspace nukes the X server in Linux PC
15:33 stockwellb joined #parrot
15:33 Infinoid we're so geeky, we have multiple three-finger salutes.
15:33 stockwellb Ok, PARROT_RUNTIME environmental varible is no longer set!
15:33 particle NotFound: thanks, that's good to know, and works in my ubuntu vm
15:34 NotFound And kdm has a menu option to restart the server
15:34 particle Infinoid: i thought -j without # took the # of cores + 1 by default
15:34 Infinoid nope, it just spawns as many processes as it can, as quickly as it can
15:35 NotFound stockwellb: realclean again to be sure, and all must go well now
15:35 Infinoid (or as many as the dependency tree will allow.)
15:35 particle aha
15:35 stockwellb in process right now.
15:40 stockwellb make went well. Running tests...
15:42 PerlJam even with the human delay factor, it looks like you need a faster computer :)
15:43 stockwellb $ound$ like a good idea plea$e $end help.
15:43 stockwellb Tests are done! Yea!!!!
15:44 particle group hug!
15:44 purl Cannonball!
15:44 stockwellb Thank you NotFound, PerlJam and Particle et al!!!
15:44 stockwellb So 220 wallclock seconds is slow?
15:45 stockwellb testing that is.
15:45 * moritz only needs 117, hehe ;)
15:45 stockwellb dang.
15:45 moritz but that's cheating, I use parallel testing
15:45 moritz on two cores at once
15:45 stockwellb My poor Latitude D820
15:46 stockwellb I have intel Core2 Duo. How do I cheat?
15:46 particle moritz: is that simply TEST_JOBS=9 make test ??
15:46 moritz particle: TEST_JOBS=2
15:47 particle i'll try 5 (quad-core)
15:47 * particle tries TEST_JOBS=5 make -j 5 make world test
15:48 particle i wonder how that'll interact
15:49 sjansen joined #parrot
15:51 stockwellb TEST_JOBS=2 make test took 189 secs. Compared to 220 without.
15:51 moritz one CPU?
15:51 stockwellb Yea duo core
15:52 stockwellb I'm definitely *NOT* the cool kid on the block.
15:53 particle make -j 5 world #fails
15:54 stockwellb Once again, thank you everyone for helping me get parrot back up and running. I learned a bunch of other shit too! I'm going to lunch. Later!
15:56 NotFound particle: I think there are several non explicit dependencies in the sources that makes any parallel build risky.
15:57 particle NotFound: so it seems. we keep trying to remove them, but they keep showing up
15:57 NotFound particle: is hard to fix and to keep it fixed without some automated way.
15:58 particle the automated way should be smokers
16:06 dalek r32134 | pmichaud++ | trunk:
16:06 dalek : [core]:  Fix some issues with opcode renumbering (RT #60070)
16:06 dalek : * NOTE: "make realclean" required
16:06 dalek : * Patch to lib/Parrot/OpsRenumber.pm from chromatic++
16:06 dalek : * Bring ops.num up to date
16:06 dalek : * Update PBC_COMPAT, fix instructions in PBC_COMPAT
16:06 dalek : * Give 'pdump' an explicit path in tools/dev/mk_native_pbc
16:06 dalek diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn​/parrot/revision?rev=32134
16:06 dalek r32135 | pmichaud++ | lex:
16:06 dalek : Remove 'lex' branch to re-sync from trunk (opsrenumber fixes)
16:06 dalek diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn​/parrot/revision?rev=32135
16:07 dalek r32136 | pmichaud++ | lex:
16:07 dalek : Create new lex branch from trunk for lexicals work.
16:07 dalek diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn​/parrot/revision?rev=32136
16:13 pjcj joined #parrot
16:27 Ademan_ joined #parrot
16:35 Theory joined #parrot
16:36 NotFound Someone can take a look at src/inter_call.c:2669 ?
16:36 NotFound It gives a warning, and looks like an error.
16:39 Tene you mean this line:
16:39 Tene }
16:39 Tene ?
16:40 NotFound if (interp->run_core = PARROT_CGP_CORE)
16:41 NotFound Ups, the line number has changed because I was testing headerizing
16:41 Tene 2665
16:42 Tene There was a recent commit about CGP
16:42 Tene Chromatic did something with it in r32094
16:46 NotFound Looks like a typo for ==
16:46 Tene ... oh, right.
16:46 Tene Yeah, I agree.
16:47 Tene Yeah, that was added with the commit I referenced.
16:47 Tene Definitely a bug.  Good catch.
16:47 Tene NotFound++
16:48 NotFound -Wall++
16:54 dalek r32137 | fperrad++ | trunk:
16:54 dalek : [PCT]
16:54 dalek : - now generate .tailcall
16:55 dalek diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn​/parrot/revision?rev=32137
16:56 Tene NotFound: are you going to commit the fix?
16:56 NotFound Tene: I'm testing before
16:56 NotFound pass
16:57 Tene Wait, you can run tests before you commit?  Interesting idea.
16:57 Tene I'll have to consider doing that in the future.
16:57 Tene Maybe.
16:57 dalek r32138 | julianalbo++ | trunk:
16:57 dalek : fix a typo from r32094
16:57 dalek diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn​/parrot/revision?rev=32138
16:58 NotFound Tene: only thuesday afternoons.
17:01 moritz I get a failure in t/stm/runtime.t
17:02 moritz and then a pass on running it again.
17:07 dalek r32139 | julianalbo++ | trunk:
17:07 dalek : add some PARROT_..._RETURN_NULL to make headerizer happier and update headerizing
17:07 dalek diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn​/parrot/revision?rev=32139
17:07 NotFound Uh, oh...
17:10 pmichaud iirc, some of the stm tests have race conditions on some platforms
17:12 Zaba joined #parrot
17:14 NotFound Don't kill me yet, I'm fixing it.
17:20 chromatic joined #parrot
17:21 ruoso joined #parrot
17:22 dalek r32140 | julianalbo++ | trunk:
17:22 dalek : forward declare PackFile_ByteCode in parrot.h to avoid headerizing and #include problems
17:22 dalek diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn​/parrot/revision?rev=32140
17:23 NotFound Sorry for the break, I forgot I was testing with c++
17:49 * Coke attempts to catchup from yesterday, Oy.
17:55 particle pmichaud: would you agree that src/classes/Module.pir should become Package.pir, and Module isa Package?
17:56 * Coke "what's this? Now."
17:57 pmichaud particle:  I don't know what's in Module.pir at the moment -- I guess jonathan++ created that
17:57 pmichaud I agree that Module isa Package
17:57 particle it's just onload and WHAT
17:57 pmichaud is it even used?
17:57 particle i'll instead make Package derived from NameSpace and Any, and make Module a subclass
17:58 pmichaud make it so.
17:58 particle aye
17:58 pmichaud ultimately we're likely to end up with a Perl6NameSpace PMC
17:59 particle is there a NameSpace class in perl 6? i haven't seen one in the spec
17:59 particle i'll have to ack, of course
17:59 pmichaud obviously Perl 6 has namespaces, but no, there hasn't been mention of a namespace class
18:00 pmichaud TimToady and I had a discussion about this a couple of weeks ago on #perl6
18:00 particle ok, because i'm thinking i'll put the EXPORT/EXPORTALL methods in Package
18:00 particle irc log?
18:00 purl it has been said that irc log is http://irclog.perlgeek.de/parrot/
18:00 pmichaud I was asking what was the type of object that received the .EXPORTALL invocation
18:01 particle http://irclog.perlgeek.de/search.pl?channe​l=perl6&amp;nick=pmichaud&amp;q=NameSpace
18:01 particle ah, ok i'll look for EXPORTALL
18:01 pmichaud http://irclog.perlgeek.de/​perl6/2008-10-11#i_617225
18:05 pmichaud also, there's nothing that says that Package has to be isa NameSpace -- it just needs to know how to forward to a NameSpace when apropriate
18:09 pmichaud so I think I'd prefer Package to not be a subclass of NameSpace
18:09 chromatic Ditto.
18:09 pmichaud unless there's a big reason it has to be that way
18:12 particle i don't see a reason, that's confused me from the start
18:13 particle however, parrot NameSpaces should probably be accepted as rakudo Packages, so p6meta.'register'('NameSpace') seems appropriate
18:13 pmichaud until we actually need that, I'd rather not implement it
18:14 particle ok, fine, won't do that either
18:14 pmichaud i.e., I'd prefer to see the use case
18:14 particle so Package isa Any
18:14 particle so all i need is .new_class, don't need .register at all
18:16 chromatic don't need .register, don't need .stack
18:16 chromatic If you've got the VM honey, I've got the time.
18:16 particle heck, i'm not sure i even need WHAT
18:16 pmichaud right
18:16 pmichaud I'm not sure why Module was implemented in the first place :-|
18:16 particle so, is there a way i can declare Package in perl 6 code?
18:16 particle lemme rip it out and see what falls down
18:17 particle this is wacky
18:17 particle of course, i need to put a EXPORT method on Package still, don't i?
18:17 Tene look at r29922
18:17 pmichaud it needs to go somewhere, yes.
18:17 Tene "[rakudo] Make .WHAT called on a NameSpace return a Module proto-object. Added to unblock mod_perl; probably will want a re-visit when we look at modules more comprehe...
18:18 * particle shakes his fist at jhorwitz
18:18 pmichaud it's okay with me if .WHAT on a NameSpace returns a Package protoobject
18:18 pmichaud if mod_perl needs it
18:18 Tene particle: it was added by Jonathan.
18:18 particle yes, but added for jhorwitz
18:18 chromatic Never trust anyone under 30, or with a J in his name.
18:19 particle can i declare Package in nqp instead of pir now?
18:20 pmichaud no
18:20 particle ah, well
18:20 pmichaud (I don't know what you mean by  "declare Package in nqp", but I'm certain the answer is no. :-)
18:20 particle class Package { ... }
18:20 particle heck, in perl 6 i mean.
18:20 pmichaud that wouldn't make it a subclass of Any
18:21 pmichaud (in nqp)
18:21 particle "isa Any" is easy to add
18:22 particle ok, so we need Package. can i get rid of Module?
18:22 pmichaud I don't know if mod_perl expects Module
18:22 pmichaud you'd probably have to ask jhorwitz about all of this.
18:23 particle yep, he's ignoring me
18:23 dalek r32141 | pmichaud++ | trunk:
18:23 dalek : [rakudo]:  spectest-progress.csv update: 206 files, 4429 passing tests
18:23 dalek diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn​/parrot/revision?rev=32141
18:23 particle there's roughly a 1/3 chance mccain will be dead before jhorwitz returns my call
18:24 particle actuarial statistics are amazing things
18:24 chromatic Hey, the stats went up again!
18:24 pmichaud I'm so glad to see that the members of the Parrot Foundation board communicate so well :-) :-)
18:24 Tene Communicate like a fox!
18:24 pmichaud or maybe that's just officers :-)
18:26 dalek r32142 | pmichaud++ | lex:
18:26 dalek : Initial implementation of capture_lex .
18:26 dalek diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn​/parrot/revision?rev=32142
18:31 Tene pmichaud: do you have any work for me tonight?
18:31 * jhorwitz awakens
18:31 * Tene flees in terror.
18:31 pmichaud Tene: what are we blocking on for .hll support, if anything?
18:33 Tene pmichaud: HLLCompiler needs to know the .HLL of the language it's compiling for, or we need to store namespaces or protoobjects or something in the attributes
18:33 pmichaud protoobjects
18:33 purl protoobjects are constrained to be undefined
18:34 jhorwitz particle & pmichaud: do what you will with module & package.  mod_perl6 will comply.
18:34 Tene All languages that will use HLLCompiler will always use P6object?
18:34 Tene Okay, I can do that.
18:34 pmichaud tene:  there's more, just a sec
18:34 Coke communicate? With those JOKERS?
18:34 * Coke comes in late to the party.
18:34 pmichaud jhorwitz: we need to know what mod_perl6 needs
18:34 pmichaud i.e., when is it using .WHAT on namespaces now?
18:35 jhorwitz mod_perl6 is very needy.  :)
18:35 * Tene gone for teaching, bbiab
18:35 pmichaud tene:  at present, the reason why I'm using strings instead of protoobjects is that at the time the HLLCompiler object is being created, the action grammar and grammar haven't been created yet
18:36 pmichaud tene:  it may be as simple as moving the .include 'src/gen_grammar.pir'    and .include 'src/gen_actions.pir'   to the top of the language.pir file instead of at the bottom
18:36 pmichaud then the protoobjects should be available at the time the onload sub is executed
18:36 jhorwitz pmichaud: i was going to use .WHAT to determine if a handler name was a namespace or a subroutine
18:36 jhorwitz it's not currently implemented
18:37 pmichaud oh
18:37 pmichaud use .isa
18:37 jhorwitz sure -- if that works now, i'll gladly use it.
18:37 pmichaud although it might not work now for NameSpace PMCs
18:37 jhorwitz ah.  hm.
18:38 pmichaud anyway, using .WHAT for deciding class membership is almost always wrong
18:38 pmichaud (yes, there's still a lot of it in actions.pm)
18:38 particle well, shoot, i can clean that up
18:39 * particle roots around for his meme eraser... it's here somewhere, i swear!
18:39 pmichaud particle:  I think some places even have   .HOW().isa()
18:39 pmichaud I'd like those to just become .isa
18:39 chromatic I believe that's called "Not being an adolescent".
18:39 pmichaud we may need to add .isa to PCT::Node to make that happen, but that would be fine.
18:40 particle ok, so i'll leave Module.pir alone for now
18:40 particle change .WHAT and .HOW.isa to .isa, implementing PCT::Node.isa if necessary, and then try removing Module.pir
18:40 purl particle: that doesn't look right
18:40 pmichaud that works for me
18:41 pmichaud we may also need to have Rakudo define a .isa method for the NameSpace PMC
18:41 pmichaud (for mod_perl6)
18:41 particle ok, but that's not something mod_perl6 needs today, correct jhorwitz?
18:42 jhorwitz i need it to implement method handlers, but it's not urgent, no.
18:42 pmichaud yes, if mod_perl6 doesn't need that today, I'm in favor of simply removing it for now.
18:42 jhorwitz so go ahead and remove it
18:42 pmichaud yay.
18:43 particle i wonder how much this will affect chromatic's favorite benchmark
18:44 particle (ripping out code)++
18:45 chromatic Fixing isa/does in PMCs helps greatly too.
18:45 chromatic Rough guess: 20% improvement by reducing GC pressure.
18:46 jhorwitz just reconfirmed that .isa gives an exception when called on a namespace.
18:46 dalek r32143 | pmichaud++ | lex:
18:46 dalek : [imcc]:  Fix IMCC so it doesn't generate Closure PMCs
18:46 dalek diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn​/parrot/revision?rev=32143
18:47 Coke (reducing GC pressure) tcl needs that; badly.
18:48 Coke crap, now I reaaaaly need to get tcl working with svn head.
18:48 chromatic We need to get PIR profiling working.
18:48 chromatic If I could tell you where you spend most of your time, we could optimize there.
18:48 jhorwitz mmmmmm
18:49 Coke chromatic: yes.
18:49 Coke I took a look at the callgrind output, and it was a bigger than a one day project, so I didn't pursue it.
18:50 chromatic It's not that bad.
18:50 chromatic You can get by with the simple output.
18:50 Coke bigger than one day for me. ^_^
18:50 chromatic The trouble is following Parrot's control flow.
18:56 nopaste "particle" at 98.232.28.49 pasted "PCT::Node.isa + sample changes in actions.pm." (47 lines) at http://nopaste.snit.ch/14383
18:56 particle let me know if that looks correct before i go changing everything the wrong way
18:56 jhorwitz looks like i can use try blocks and some crafty logic to implement method handlers.  i don't think i'll be blocking on NameSpace.isa.
18:58 * Coke ponders creating a branch for the (*#@$ tcl/tge update.
18:58 Coke (in tcl, not parrot)
18:58 pmichaud PCT::Node.isa needs to do the equivalent of .HOW.isa
18:59 particle ah, ok
18:59 particle and i can't use [PAST;Val] in nqp
18:59 particle i need PAST::Val i suppose
18:59 pmichaud right
18:59 particle or 'PAST::Val'
18:59 pmichaud it's PAST::Val
18:59 pmichaud no quotes
18:59 purl no quotes are ever needed on multi lines, because of indenting
18:59 chromatic It would be fairly easy to make IMCC support literal Key creation.
18:59 pmichaud purl, forget no quotes
18:59 purl pmichaud: I forgot no quotes
19:00 pmichaud in Perl 6, we would write     $x.isa(Foo::Bar)      so that's what NQP expects to do.
19:00 pmichaud and Foo::Bar would be a protoobject.
19:00 moritz (actually we'd write $x ~~ Foo::Bar ;-)
19:00 pmichaud (that's possible also, but .isa works.)
19:01 moritz right
19:03 particle ok so $P0 = self.'HOW'() ; $I0 = isa $P0, type
19:03 pmichaud no
19:03 pmichaud $P0 = self.'HOW'()   $I0 = $P0.'isa'(type)
19:03 particle ok, i'll stop being lazy and investigate further then
19:04 pmichaud because <type> isn't necessarily a Parrot class
19:04 particle ah, right
19:04 pmichaud (in fact, it's almost certainly _not_ a Parrot class)
19:04 particle can i .tailcall $P0.'isa'(type) ?
19:04 pmichaud should be okay
19:05 pmichaud since it's not a vtable function
19:05 pmichaud (no, don't be tempted to make it one.)
19:05 particle don't worry, i'm not.
19:06 ruz joined #parrot
19:06 particle i still have trouble thinking the rakudo way... i so often try things the parrot way first
19:07 pmichaud the key is remembering that perl 6 (and the parrot compiler toolkit) almost never use Parrot classes directly.
19:07 pmichaud s/perl 6/rakudo/
19:08 pmichaud so opcodes like 'isa', 'does', 'new', etc. need special treatment (or, more likely, should be delegating to something else that already does the special treatment)
19:08 pmichaud afk for a while (kid pickup)
19:35 * Coke thinks he's got tcl's tge issues worked out.
19:35 Coke branches++
19:35 particle1 coke++
19:36 * Coke runs make test.
19:39 Coke aw, the closure update was in the lex branch.
19:39 Coke am I right in assuming that's the one that is supposed to reduce GC pressure?
19:40 Coke woot. make test in partcl's tge_update passes, along with the expected passing TODO tests.
19:40 jhorwitz coke++
19:45 particle2 joined #parrot
19:47 Coke meh. is that karma worthy? Thanks, though.
19:48 particle2 there really is no way to make you less cranky, is there.
19:49 * moritz feels that half of his karma isn't deserved either. It's just a general noise level...
19:49 Coke particle2: not that I've noticed.
19:50 Coke particle2: if you figure it out, be sure to tell my wife. =-)
19:53 * Coke realizes that he can't rely on getting karma in here from partcl commits any more, and becomes more effusive.
19:54 * Coke does yet another test against release 0.8.0
19:55 moritz Coke: well, you just need a bot that pastes partcl commit messages here.
20:03 Coke There; http://code.google.com/p/partcl/wiki/PartclSource
20:04 Coke I am tempted to try out that closure patch and see if tcl's spec test runs any better.
20:04 NotFound Interesting: if I add a methot can_handle that returns true to a subclass of ExceptionHandler, it handles the exception.
20:05 chromatic Makes sense to me.
20:05 NotFound So it looks like the problem is that can_handle in ExceptionHandler does not do the right thing by default.
20:06 NotFound Maybe just another symptom of the generic problems of inheriting from pmc.
20:07 apeiron joined #parrot
20:09 pmichaud coke:  the 'lex' branch is where I'm working on a re-implementation of lexicals
20:09 pmichaud GC pressure isn't at all a driving force (afaik)
20:10 NotFound Will be the correct way to add a new test with the can_handle method, and let the test without the method as todo?
20:10 pmichaud currently the lex branch breaks lots of tests (as expected) until I can get all of the pieces in place
20:13 NotFound Did we have some test called free?
20:13 NotFound I want to break free!
20:13 chromatic Free's failing.
20:13 particle2 make or break
20:16 Coke what was the GC pressure comment from before directed at, chromatic?
20:16 particle2 about isa, iirc
20:17 Coke ah.
20:17 particle2 like, caching the result so the lookup is done once
20:17 Coke hurm. I can't have a slurpy macro, can i.
20:17 chromatic Not always doing stringy comparisons to test isa.
20:17 particle2 i forget if macros support varargs. don't think so
20:18 NotFound particle2: C macros?
20:18 purl C macros are the pits
20:18 Coke no, PIR
20:19 chromatic Pretty sure they don't slurp either.
20:23 dalek r32144 | julianalbo++ | trunk:
20:23 dalek : add a new test for ExceptionHandler subclassing
20:23 dalek diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn​/parrot/revision?rev=32144
20:28 Coke so much for my clever idea to write a macro for setting up an exception handler.
20:28 Coke (with an arbitrary # of types.)
20:29 Coke (ooh, shiny webdev work)
20:29 chromatic Subclass EH and override its can_handle method.
20:29 Coke that's a lot of work for syntactic sugar.
20:30 Coke I'd consider it if I had more uniform handler args, though.
20:30 chromatic What kind of uniform, matching slacks and a blazer?
20:30 pmichaud well, as I noted yesterday -- internally Parrot's isa is still doing stringy comparisons :-(
20:31 pmichaud anyway, I'm sure that'll get fixed.
20:33 chromatic It's on my list.
20:41 gmansi_ joined #parrot
20:52 Coke chromatic: I wonder if it's time to re-attack the integer type ids branch.
20:52 Coke (mainly by deleting it and starting over.)
20:52 bacek joined #parrot
20:52 particle2 are there still blockers to removing type ids?
20:53 chromatic Why delete it?
20:53 Coke because I don't want to try to do the merge.
20:54 Coke perhaps that's the wrong kind of lazy
20:54 chromatic Yeah, deleting branches and throwing away work seems kind of silly.
20:55 chromatic Of course, if it's more work trying to merge than it is to recreate the work, that's another thing.
20:55 chromatic Hard to say without more evidence.
20:55 Coke it was, the last time I tried.
20:55 Coke There's a reason it's been idle for so long.
20:56 chromatic I say do a diff against the point where you branched, save that as a patch, and see what applies to trunk.
20:56 chromatic We can redeem part of that perhaps.
20:56 Coke That was my plan; try to get a patch of things that didn't say "merge from trunk" and use that as a the starting point of a fresh attempt.
20:57 Coke particle2: the problem was, as i recall, that a LOT of code wants those type ids.
20:57 Coke and I don't think we had a plan for how to deal with some of those bits.
20:57 Coke (have to check the various tickets for particulars)
21:02 Coke ->
21:06 Zaba_ joined #parrot
21:07 Theory joined #parrot
21:10 particle2 http://www.parrot.org/wiki/parro​t-developer-summit-2008-arrivals
21:11 * jhorwitz should probably book his flight
21:35 pmichaud is there an rss feed for the wiki?
21:36 Zaba joined #parrot
21:36 allison joined #parrot
21:37 jhorwitz hm, doesn't appear so.
21:41 PacoLinux kidd #parrot, del server  irc://irc.perl.org/parrot
21:41 PacoLinux sorry
21:42 PacoLinux recruiting some people ..
21:47 gmansi joined #parrot
21:50 rgrau joined #parrot
21:54 Tene particle2: any word on funding for PDS?
22:00 particle2 PacoLinux++
22:02 PacoLinux :)
22:28 cotto joined #parrot
22:56 Tene pmichaud, particle: what are the times of your return flights?
22:57 Tene Are the arrivals on that wiki page Nov 14 or Nov 15?
23:02 davidfetter joined #parrot
23:08 ruoso joined #parrot
23:13 pmichaud Tene:  Nov 14
23:13 pmichaud my return flight is late Nov 16
23:15 Tene Okay, thanks.
23:15 TiMBuS joined #parrot
23:22 cotto chromatic, ping
23:24 chromatic ponig
23:24 chromatic pong
23:25 bacek_ joined #parrot
23:25 nopaste "cotto" at 96.26.202.243 pasted "Complex PMC segfault" (52 lines) at http://nopaste.snit.ch/14387
23:25 cotto I don't know if that's minimal enough, but it reliably segfaults for me.
23:26 pjcj joined #parrot
23:29 chromatic Looks easy enough to reproduce.
23:35 tewk joined #parrot
23:41 particle2 tene: i fixed up the arrivals page to include date
23:41 particle2 also, i created a departures page
23:41 chromatic Also you should win stuff for attending.
23:41 Tene thanks
23:45 apeiron joined #parrot
23:59 particle2 we all win just because you're attending, chromatic

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