Camelia, the Perl 6 bug

IRC log for #parrot, 2008-12-19

Parrot | source cross referenced

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
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00:35 pmichaud november?
00:35 purl november is at http://www.november-wiki.org/ or http://use.perl.org/~masak/journal/37212
00:37 masak hm.
00:37 masak hold on.
00:37 masak purl: november is also http://github.com/viklund/november/
00:37 purl okay, masak.
00:46 * Coke sees rakudoperl.* has been squatted.
00:47 * Coke breaks his partcl blog posting record.
00:54 Zaba_ joined #parrot
00:54 pmichaud Domain Name: RAKUDOPERL.COM
00:54 pmichaud Created on: 15-Jan-08
00:54 pmichaud Expires on: 15-Jan-10
00:54 pmichaud Last Updated on: 15-Jan-08
00:54 pmichaud Administrative Contact:
00:54 pmichaud Michaud, Patrick  pmichaud@pobox.com
00:55 pmichaud darn those squatters!
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01:00 Coke I was basing that entirely on the content at those sites.
01:00 pmichaud I haven't bothered to make them point anywhere yet.  :-|
01:01 pmichaud I registered them to make sure someone else didn't get them.
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01:04 masak that's the definition of squatting, isn't it? :)
01:04 pmichaud There is that.  :-)
01:05 pmichaud I made sure I could get the domains before I chose the name "Rakudo"  :-)
01:06 masak :)
01:08 pmichaud aiiiieee!
01:09 pmichaud (some code just makes me cringe.)
01:10 chromatic Do I have some code for you then!
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01:20 pmichaud looks like I have november compiling again -- just waiting for a spectest run to complete and then I can commit.
01:20 Whiteknight well, parrot doesn't even configure with icc, so that answers that question
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01:20 masak pmichaud++
01:21 chromatic I know that ICC had some trouble with CONST_STRING on linebreaks.
01:21 pmichaud I don't know if it _runs_, but it compiles :-)
01:21 Coke compiles?
01:21 purl SHIP IT
01:21 chromatic ... but we could make the CONST_STRING processor check for linebreaks.
01:21 masak pmichaud: if it doesn't run, you'll hear from us soon. :)
01:21 pmichaud the test_wiki.sh script appears to work.
01:22 masak pmichaud: that's how we measure success right now.
01:22 pmichaud congratulations on some good packaging -- the fact that I was able to download and get this working so quickly means someone did some good work.  masak++
01:22 * masak blushes
01:23 masak we are basically a group of young people stumbling around in the dark, doing what we hope is right.
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01:31 dalek r34091 | pmichaud++ | :
01:31 dalek : [rakudo]:  Fix handling of $?PACKAGE, @?PACKAGE, $?CLASS, @?CLASS, etc.
01:31 dalek : These were pushing null values onto the stacks, which meant they weren't
01:31 dalek : being restored properly on exit (as discovered by November++).
01:31 dalek diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn​/parrot/revision?rev=34091
01:35 Coke found a library file that doesn't even compile. :|
01:36 dalek r34092 | Whiteknight++ | :
01:36 dalek : [gsoc_pdd09] updating to trunk r34088 so we can get a clear diff
01:36 dalek diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn​/parrot/revision?rev=34092
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01:41 Coke allison?
01:41 purl allison is Allison Randal <mailto:allison@perl.org>
01:41 Coke anyone know what replaced the recv opcode?
01:42 chromatic Should be a method on an IO PMC.
01:43 Coke hurm. Now that we have Socket, do we need runtime/parrot/library/tcpstream.pir ?
01:43 Coke (which doesn't compile)
01:49 dalek r34093 | jkeenan++ | :
01:49 dalek : Correct punctuation error in comment.
01:49 dalek diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn​/parrot/revision?rev=34093
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01:58 dalek r34094 | chromatic++ | :
01:58 dalek : [src] Fixed all CONST_STRING macros so that they don't break across lines.
01:58 dalek : This should make it easier for picky compilers to get the #line numbers right.
01:58 dalek diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn​/parrot/revision?rev=34094
02:05 chromatic From the "Break early, break often" dept.
02:05 dalek r34095 | chromatic++ | :
02:05 dalek : [tools] Added an exception to c2str.pl when a CONST_STRING macro occurs after a
02:06 dalek : linebreak.  The regex to detect this may need tweaking in the future, but this
02:06 dalek : should prevent weird error messages on compilers with very picky #line
02:06 dalek : handling.
02:06 dalek diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn​/parrot/revision?rev=34095
02:09 * GeJ wonders why his 'compilers/imcc/imcparser.h' always get modified
02:10 chromatic Various maintainers have different versions of yacc/bison installed.
02:12 GeJ Ah, indeed, I define --lex and --yacc in my configure script.
02:12 GeJ thanks.
02:14 dalek r34096 | jkeenan++ | :
02:14 dalek : In r30478 ( 2008-08-23 ), I changed the name of t/tools/ops2pmutils/ to
02:14 dalek : t/tools/ops2pm/.  I did not change all instances of the old name in code and,
02:15 dalek : as a result, the tests in t/tools/ops2pm/*.t have not been run as part of
02:15 dalek : 'make buildtools_tests' or 'perl Configure.pl --test' since then.  This fixes
02:15 dalek : that, for the most part.  But in the interim changes in the way ops codes are
02:15 dalek : renumbered have broken the tests in t/tools/ops2pm/05-renum_op_map_file.t, so
02:15 dalek : mosts of its tests are TODOed out.
02:15 dalek diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn​/parrot/revision?rev=34096
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02:41 dalek r34097 | util++ | :
02:41 dalek : [codingstd] Added coda to Rakudo's Exception.pir
02:41 dalek diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn​/parrot/revision?rev=34097
02:41 dalek r34098 | chromatic++ | :
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02:41 dalek : [ops] Made some temporary PMCs used in comparison opcodes *real* temporary PMCs.
02:41 dalek diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn​/parrot/revision?rev=34098
02:47 dalek r34099 | pmichaud++ | :
02:47 dalek : Remove obsolete rakudo "main" branch.
02:47 dalek diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn​/parrot/revision?rev=34099
03:02 kid51 Do we have a Google Groups set up to archive the parrot-tickets list?
03:02 kid51 I know we have this for parrot-dev:  http://groups.google.com/group/parrot-dev/topics
03:03 pmichaud We have http://lists.parrot.org/pipermail/parrot-tickets/
03:03 pmichaud but I don't know if a Google Group has been set up yet.
03:05 kid51 pmichaud:  Thanks.  That's good enough for now.
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03:30 Coke missed kid?
03:31 Coke (have a patch to mostly rip out smoke. will stick it on TT#69 momentarily.
03:31 * Coke would love it if TEST_JOBS worked on "smolder_tests"
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03:53 Coke You know, I think it might be nice if we combined parrot-dev and parrot-tickets.
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06:14 cotto (french toast)++
06:23 GeJ As a French, I can only agree with you.
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06:41 cotto As a French, what do you call it?
06:48 GeJ "Pain Perdu", word-for-word "lost bread" or more accurately "wasted bread"
06:49 GeJ Thinking of it : salvage wasted bread by dipping in a mix of mil, egg and sugar = french dish
06:49 GeJ cutting-and-slicing potatoes, dropping in boiling oil = french dish...
06:50 GeJ why do the most simple things get french-ed?
06:51 * GeJ goes looking for other "french $something" recipes
06:51 cotto kiss?
06:51 purl kiss is Keep It Simple, Stupid!
06:52 GeJ like we invented tonguing, right :)
06:53 Theory joined #parrot
06:53 GeJ Theory: how's the trip in France going?
06:54 Theory GeJ: Very nicely, thanks!
06:55 Theory A little cold, but it got a bit warmer, and now it's much colder in Portland so I'm glad to be here. :-)
06:55 jimmy november?
06:55 purl i guess november is at http://www.november-wiki.org/ or http://use.perl.org/~masak/journal/37212 or http://github.com/viklund/november/
06:57 GeJ Theory: seen you've been in Paris (or are you still), did you go by the "Galeries Lafayette"? Your little one might enjoy it.
06:58 Theory We
06:58 Theory We're back in Paris Jan 2-4. Then go home on the 5th.
06:58 Theory or 5eme, I should say
06:58 * Theory googles Galeries Lafayette
06:59 dalek r34100 | allison++ | :
06:59 dalek : Creating a branch for the first round of GC refactoring.
06:59 dalek diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn​/parrot/revision?rev=34100
07:00 Theory GeJ: More like my wife would enjoy it! :-P
07:01 GeJ I asked because I saw her last blog entry :)
07:02 Theory ah
07:02 GeJ Around Christmas, they have these use displays filled with animated toys.
07:02 Theory ah!
07:03 Theory Are they removed before Jan 2?
07:03 GeJ They might still be there. I haven't spend a Christmas in Paris for 4 years now. I couldn't tell for sure.
07:04 jimmy why does dalek lost anythin before ':' ?
07:04 Theory you should leave a comment to that effect. :-)
07:05 GeJ But I remember bugging my parents to go there every week-ends.
07:06 GeJ I must confess that even later I always could find an hour or so at lunch break to pay a visit.
07:07 Theory good to know
07:07 Theory Don't think we'll be back in Paris before xmas
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07:47 cotto msg chromatic I'd appreciate you double-checking my conclusion on CID #161.  It looks like a false positive but I might be missing something.
07:47 purl Message for chromatic stored.
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08:01 GeJ Theory: hum, that's strange... it looks like you were there already. :-/
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09:02 Theory GeJ: I thought that the rotunda looked familiar. We didn't really seen any displays, though. A just played in the toy section of the store.
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11:54 ask_ is there a policy on adding (or not adding) email addresses in the CREDITS file?
11:54 moritz ask_: I think major contributors should have an email address in CREDITS
11:55 moritz ask_: but I have been told that it's not necessary for occasional contributors (especially those without commit access)
11:55 ask_ only counting those with commit access then?  Anyway - I'm (via making the git repository) completing the CREDITS file with everyone ever doing a commit.
11:56 ask_ I don't know if I can put the changes into the repository as it's adding a bunch of email addresses.
11:56 moritz ask_: maybe ask on the list
11:56 ask_ what's the list these days?
11:56 ask_ :)
11:57 moritz parrot-dev@lists.parrot.org
11:57 moritz afk
11:59 ask_ thanks, sent.
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12:53 dalek r34101 | kjs++ | :
12:53 dalek : [pirc] refactor of codesegment creation which is needed to get things working in future.
12:53 dalek : + add runtime checks for lin.scan.reg.alloc; only if it's requested create the data structures. The tests are worth it, as they are only simple checks (probably 1 or 2 machine instructions), whereas data structure creation will invoke memory allocators, which is much more painful.
12:53 dalek diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn​/parrot/revision?rev=34101
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13:01 dalek r34102 | kjs++ | :
13:01 dalek : [pirc] add a synopsis section to bcgen.c. This presents overview of how to use the ByteCodeGENerator file.
13:01 dalek diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn​/parrot/revision?rev=34102
13:02 riffraff whis there a way or best practice to define a PGE rule/token to match a big list of words (aptly put in valid.txt) ?
13:05 kj riffraff: what comes to mind would be to match a hash (or maybe array? not sure...) However, that's not implemented yet
13:05 riffraff I see thanks
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13:07 dalek r34103 | kjs++ | :
13:07 dalek : [pirc] Remove old hand-written version of pirc. No point in keeping it; should we decide that a recursive-descent version is the way to go, I'd rather start over with experience and lessons learned with pirc/new.
13:07 dalek : + update MANIFEST
13:07 dalek diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn​/parrot/revision?rev=34103
13:10 dalek r34104 | kjs++ | :
13:10 dalek : [pirc] put some stuff into the Memory Hole. and other updates.
13:10 dalek diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn​/parrot/revision?rev=34104
13:13 dalek r34105 | kjs++ | :
13:13 dalek : [pirc] remove old documentation about pirc/src. + update MANIFEST
13:13 dalek diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn​/parrot/revision?rev=34105
13:23 Theory joined #parrot
13:25 dalek r34106 | kjs++ | :
13:25 dalek : [config] fix pirc.in; it referred to src/pirlexer, should be new/~
13:25 dalek diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn​/parrot/revision?rev=34106
13:42 riffraff joined #parrot
13:42 dalek r34107 | kjs++ | :
13:42 dalek : [config] remove a reference to non-existing file in pirc.in
13:42 dalek diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn​/parrot/revision?rev=34107
13:44 Coke I don't see ask_'s email.
13:45 dalek r34108 | kjs++ | :
13:45 dalek : [pirc] refactoring of grammar + action code.
13:45 dalek diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn​/parrot/revision?rev=34108
13:46 * Coke hurls http://xkcd.com/519/ for Andy
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14:05 dalek r34109 | kjs++ | :
14:05 dalek : [pirc] shortcuts and layout updates.
14:05 dalek diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn​/parrot/revision?rev=34109
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14:50 Coke msg Andy http://perlbuzz.com/how-to-contribute.html doesn't actually say where to send suggestions.
14:50 purl Message for andy stored.
14:51 Coke msg andy http://xkcd.com/519/ ; awesome webcomic gives perl some love.
14:51 purl Message for andy stored.
14:51 moritz and I thought that Mr. Munroe went on to python...
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15:09 * Coke proposes parrot split up it's tests by PDD coverage, ala perl6.
15:09 Coke bah. "its"
15:19 Theory joined #parrot
15:22 * Coke thinks he just got another 204 partcl spec tests working.
15:23 Coke s/working/counted/
15:23 Coke allison++ # GC refactor!
15:23 Coke I expect a 50% improvement in run time! =-)
15:24 Coke if I have one part of a repository checked out in dir A, and another in dir B, can I do a commit of both simultaneously and have it be atomic?
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15:27 jhorwitz i don't think so, but try it.  worst it will do is say a dir is not part of the repo.
15:28 Coke (google code keeps the wiki in a top level svn dir, next to trunk. I wanted to commit the wiki update in the same commit with a fix to trunk)
15:29 jhorwitz a noble goal
15:29 Coke too noble, not worth it. =-)
15:29 Coke yay, 203 more tests. (off by one error in my estimate. =-)
15:30 Coke 203/2341
15:30 purl 0.0867150790260572
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15:31 Coke yay, a 9% jump. =-)
15:31 Coke (not bad, the diff was to add one line.)
15:36 nopaste "tewk" at 155.97.237.62 pasted ":nsentry, perl6 failure, ideas?" (12 lines) at http://nopaste.snit.ch/15038
15:37 moritz tewk: is that in a branch?
15:40 tewk nope I can put it in one, or paste a diff, :vtable and :method no longer get put in the ns, so it is probably related to that.
15:41 tewk or I could push it to github
15:42 moritz I can't answer your question either way; if it where in a branch, a missing or wrong update from trunk might have explained it
15:43 tewk Another reason why git is better than svn :)
15:46 dalek r34110 | fperrad++ | :
15:46 dalek : [win32] setup
15:46 dalek : - now, update %PATH% when installing
15:46 dalek diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn​/parrot/revision?rev=34110
16:05 Coke msg andy in my defense, I mentioned it here before it was posted on perlbuzz. =-)
16:05 purl Message for andy stored.
16:55 dalek r34111 | fperrad++ | :
16:55 dalek : [lisp]
16:55 dalek : - fix opcode removed
16:55 dalek diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn​/parrot/revision?rev=34111
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17:29 dalek r34112 | pmichaud++ | :
17:29 dalek : [rakudo]: spectest-progress.csv update: 250 files, 5213 passing, 0 failing
17:29 dalek diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn​/parrot/revision?rev=34112
17:30 Zaba joined #parrot
17:30 dalek r34113 | chromatic++ | :
17:30 dalek :  r34132@waterwheel (orig r34101):  kjs | 2008-12-19 04:52:21 -0800
17:30 dalek :  [pirc] refactor of codesegment creation which is needed to get things working in future.
17:30 purl i already had it that way, dalek.
17:30 dalek :  + add runtime checks for lin.scan.reg.alloc; only if it's requested create the data structures. The tests are worth it, as they are only simple checks (probably 1 or 2 machine instructions), whereas data structure creation will invoke memory allocators, which is much more painful.
17:30 dalek :  r34133@waterwheel (orig r34102):  kjs | 2008-12-19 04:59:46 -0800
17:30 dalek :  [pirc] add a synopsis section to bcgen.c. This presents overview of how to use the ByteCodeGENerator file.
17:30 dalek :  r34134@waterwheel (orig r34103):  kjs | 2008-12-19 05:06:39 -0800
17:30 dalek :  [pirc] Remove old hand-written version of pirc. No point in keeping it; should we decide that a recursive-descent version is the way to go, I'd rather start over with experience and lessons learned with pirc/new.
17:30 dalek :  + update MANIFEST
17:30 dalek :  r34135@waterwheel (orig r34104):  kjs | 2008-12-19 05:09:14 -0800
17:30 dalek :  [pirc] put some stuff into the Memory Hole. and other updates.
17:30 dalek :  r34136@waterwheel (orig r34105):  kjs | 2008-12-19 05:11:51 -0800
17:30 dalek :  [pirc] remove old documentation about pirc/src. + update MANIFEST
17:30 dalek :  r34137@waterwheel (orig r34106):  kjs | 2008-12-19 05:24:06 -0800
17:30 dalek :  [config] fix pirc.in; it referred to src/pirlexer, should be new/~
17:30 dalek :  r34138@waterwheel (orig r34107):  kjs | 2008-12-19 05:41:10 -0800
17:30 dalek :  [config] remove a reference to non-existing file in pirc.in
17:30 dalek :  r34139@waterwheel (orig r34108):  kjs | 2008-12-19 05:44:37 -0800
17:30 dalek :  [pirc] refactoring of grammar + action code.
17:30 dalek :  r34140@waterwheel (orig r34109):  kjs | 2008-12-19 06:04:16 -0800
17:30 dalek :  [pirc] shortcuts and layout updates.
17:30 dalek :  r34141@waterwheel (orig r34110):  fperrad | 2008-12-19 07:45:10 -0800
17:30 dalek :  [win32] setup
17:30 dalek :  - now, update %PATH% when installing
17:30 dalek :  r34142@waterwheel (orig r34111):  fperrad | 2008-12-19 08:54:27 -0800
17:30 dalek :  [lisp]
17:30 dalek :  - fix opcode removed
17:30 dalek :  r34143@waterwheel (orig r34112):  pmichaud | 2008-12-19 09:28:23 -0800
17:30 chromatic Huh.  That's not right.
17:30 dalek :  [rakudo]: spectest-progress.csv update: 250 files, 5213 passing, 0 failing
17:30 dalek :
17:30 dalek :
17:30 dalek diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn​/parrot/revision?rev=34113
17:30 dalek r34114 | pmichaud++ | :
17:30 dalek : [rakudo]:  Add another spectest file (S06-other/main.t)
17:30 dalek diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn​/parrot/revision?rev=34114
17:38 Coke ah, dalek isn't broken.
17:38 Coke chromatic is. =-)
17:39 tewk pmichaud: ping
17:59 * Coke grumbles.
18:00 Coke GAH.
18:01 Coke t_tcl/expr.test was hanging after test # foo; except it wasn't hanging, it was just skipping several gazillion tests, and by default, tcl test is silent about skips.
18:03 Coke (this wouldn't have been an issue except for how slow we are... bah)
18:19 chromatic Isn't it faster than yesterday?
18:20 Coke yes; but it is still embarrasingly slow compared to tcl.
18:20 Coke tcl runs t_tcl/expr.test in 1.2seconds. It's going to take at least 30m on for partcl.
18:24 Coke (I'll have a better time estimate once this run finishes)
18:26 Coke though I fear I'm going to run out of memory first.
18:27 Coke is there a theoretical upper limit as to how much memory parrot will try to allocate?
18:27 Coke or will it just happily continue until the OS barfs?
18:27 pmichaud S26?
18:27 purl rumour has it S26 is http://perlcabal.org/syn/S26.html
18:27 chromatic Coke, it will gorge itself until the OS says no more.
18:28 eric256 is there a way to warn from parrot? like 'die' but you know...without the whole dieing bit ;)
18:29 chromatic printerr
18:30 Coke chromatic: can you posit a way for me to tell where my memory is going?
18:30 Coke I presume it's part memory leak, part keeping a ref when I shouldn't.
18:31 eric256 thanks ;)
18:33 chromatic Valgrind can show memory leaks and Callgrind/Kcachegrind can show you what allocates memory.
18:38 pmichaud RT slow. :-(
18:42 Coke 2.6gb and climbing
18:43 martin eric256, $*ERR.say: 'some warning'; comes close
18:44 eric256 martin: thanks i meant in parrot so printerr is perfect ;)
18:44 * Coke gives up.
18:44 Coke (trying to run expr.test)
18:47 pmichaud rakudo:  warn "This is a warning!"
18:47 polyglotbot OUTPUT[This is a warning!␤]
18:47 pmichaud eric256:  try "warn"  :-)
18:47 pmichaud oh, from parrot.
18:48 pmichaud rakudo:  q:PIR { printerr "This is a warning!" }
18:48 polyglotbot OUTPUT[This is a warning!]
18:48 PacoLinux Coke: I'm testing partcl spectest - now in  t_tcl/ioUtil.test and I'm using 846/848 Mb (total of all the procs of the machine)
18:48 pmichaud sad but true... polyglotbot can execute limited PIR statements :-P
18:48 * eric256 is debuging the object creation with parent attributes the old fashion brute force way
18:49 pmichaud eric256: jonathan++ and I are expecting to refactor that code soon
18:49 pmichaud well, "soon" == "within the next two weeks"
18:50 pmichaud you're welcome to hack on it, though.  Just note that the WHENCE properties are currently not being constructed properly.
18:50 pmichaud (currently WHENCE is being built as a Hash, where it really ought to be a Closure)
18:51 pmichaud afk, more errands
18:52 eric256 okay
18:52 Coke PacoLinux: patches desperately welcome.
18:52 eric256 well most likely i wont be able to fix anything anyway ;)
18:53 ffwonko joined #parrot
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18:57 nopaste "Coke" at 72.228.52.192 pasted "partcl memory issues" (4 lines) at http://nopaste.snit.ch/15042
18:57 Coke pmichaud: any "make PGE go faster or use less memory" tasks you can offload?
19:01 Coke chromatic: kcachegrind is GUI?
19:01 * Coke wonders if he can run that on feather and export the display back to his windows box.
19:02 chromatic Yes.
19:02 Coke hurm. looks like I could also theoretically run it on my mac.
19:03 chromatic If you bzip the callgrind.out.xxxxx file, I can run it too.
19:03 chromatic bzip and transfer, I mean.
19:03 Coke let me try to get it running locally on teh mac.
19:03 * Coke peers at http://brent.izolo.com/blog/?p=4
19:05 ruoso joined #parrot
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19:08 Theory joined #parrot
19:09 Coke (this will be very nice if it works.)
19:10 * Coke apparently has not updated fink in aeons.
19:16 Coke The following package will be installed or updated: kcachegrind
19:16 Coke The following 92 additional packages will be installed:
19:20 Coke moose:cpan::kcachegrind:fink?
19:20 Whiteknight joined #parrot
19:22 Whiteknight I borked my laptop MBR, accidentally deleted my main partition while trying to fix it (thanks GRUB FAQ!) and had to reinstall everything
19:25 ask_ joined #parrot
19:27 Coke oof
19:41 Coke fink is finally done /downloading/ the 92 packages, and is now building them. =-)
19:42 chromatic What I like about Mac OS X is that it just works, as long as His Steveness allows you to do something, and that His Steveness punishes you for deviating from that.
19:42 chromatic Mostly I like that because I don't have to suffer that anymore.
19:45 Coke I am sure there is some cool mac tool for doing what I want here.
19:46 Whiteknight Well, it was my fault, I tried to add a third boot option because I wasn't satisfied with the first two
19:47 Whiteknight but the third one didn't work out, so I deleted the partition, and it took GRUB with it
19:47 chromatic I think there's an iTunes plugin for Kcachegrind actually.
19:50 * Coke cannot install kcachegrind.
19:51 * Coke has X running on os x, and will try the feather trick.
19:53 Coke chromatic: is kcg available on feather already?
19:55 Coke (wow does that font bring back memories)
19:57 lu_zero feather trick?
19:58 Coke ssh -X'ing to feather.
19:58 lu_zero works nicely
19:59 Coke slow as hell, but otherwise yes. =-)
19:59 chromatic I don't use feathre; I don't know.
19:59 * lu_zero likes better macosx just for adium and linux for the rest
19:59 Whiteknight one day, maybe Parrot will bring platform ubiquity
19:59 * lu_zero also uses gentoo in both of them
20:00 Coke Whiteknight: I highly doubt that. =-)
20:00 lu_zero Whiteknight I hope not =P
20:00 Whiteknight aim for the skys, damnit!
20:00 Coke I'd like to actually hit the 1.0 milestone, thanks. =-)
20:00 * lu_zero would love to have parrot bundled in firefox and webkit
20:01 lu_zero but before that have it installable =P
20:01 Tene Coke: if you'd rather ssh to my laptop, I can install kcachegrind here.
20:01 Tene Probably faster.
20:01 Coke I can do that, but partcl will kill your laptop. no? =-)
20:02 Tene It will?
20:02 Coke I'd like to have it setup somewhere where I can use it whenver; thanks though.
20:02 Tene Ah, okay.  I thought you were just analyzing one trace.
20:03 lu_zero Coke otherwise you may use virtualbox and make it explode for you =)
20:03 * lu_zero likes better kvm
20:03 Infinoid kvm works well.
20:07 lu_zero Infinoid on macosx?
20:10 Infinoid lu_zero: nah, gentoo linux
20:16 * Coke gives up on kcachegrind and mallocdebug and kicks something.
20:19 PerlJam Coke: tcl still problematic with newer parrots?
20:19 lu_zero Coke dtrace won't help you?
20:21 Coke PerlJam: problematic? just (@#*&$# slow.
20:22 Coke now that I can actually /run/ things again, the fact that they are painfully slow is far more obvious. =-)
20:22 gmansi joined #parrot
20:22 chromatic Coke, do you have a callgrind profile?
20:26 mj41 joined #parrot
20:29 chromatic TimToady, ping
20:30 TimToady you pang?
20:34 Coke chromatic: no. I'll get one later.
20:34 chromatic TimToady, did you get the contract?
20:34 TimToady on whom?
20:35 PerlJam If Larry is Lurch, who plays the other members of the Addams Family?
20:35 chromatic On the Masterminds interviews.
20:35 TimToady no, but Glo speaks French
20:36 TimToady snail?
20:36 purl snail is an invertebrate, right?
20:36 Theory joined #parrot
20:37 mberends joined #parrot
20:37 chromatic I believe I mailed it to you with the most recent interview questions.
20:37 TimToady when?
20:38 chromatic 12-05
20:38 purl 7
20:38 chromatic "Masterminds Contract"
20:38 TimToady maybe it went to the North Pole...
20:39 chromatic I'll re-send.
20:40 chromatic There.  Now I resent it.
20:40 chromatic So to speak.
20:40 purl absolutely, don't you know
20:48 * Whiteknight is behind on his blogging. Hiveminder emails are getting more and more angry sounding
20:52 contingencyplan joined #parrot
21:01 dalek r34115 | Whiteknight++ | :
21:01 dalek : [pdd09gc_part1] separating the MS collector into it's own file, sanity checking a change that I want to make to trunk later
21:01 dalek diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn​/parrot/revision?rev=34115
21:03 dalek r34116 | moritz++ | :
21:03 dalek : [rakudo] make ceil(), floor() etc. return Int values, not Num. cspencer++,
21:03 dalek : patch courtesy by Cory Spencer (cspencer at sprocket.org). Closes RT #61526.
21:03 dalek diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn​/parrot/revision?rev=34116
21:04 Eevee joined #parrot
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21:09 Theory joined #parrot
21:19 GeJ good morning everyone
21:22 pmichaud good morning, GeJ
21:36 donaldh joined #parrot
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21:57 tetragon joined #parrot
22:08 dalek r34117 | util++ | :
22:08 dalek : [codingstd] Fixed cut-and-paste POD error and added =back to PCT's PAST/Compiler.pir
22:08 dalek diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn​/parrot/revision?rev=34117
22:11 dalek r34118 | util++ | :
22:11 dalek : [codingstd] Fixed typo in POD in IMCC's parser_util.c
22:11 dalek diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn​/parrot/revision?rev=34118
22:15 Theory joined #parrot
22:34 dalek r34119 | util++ | :
22:34 dalek : [codingstd] Removed leftover =back in POD of io/api.c
22:34 dalek diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn​/parrot/revision?rev=34119
22:37 ElPenguin joined #parrot
22:38 Whiteknight joined #parrot
22:50 bacek Good morning
22:51 Whiteknight good morning bacek
22:52 bacek Any particular tasks for rambling developer? :)
22:53 Whiteknight depends, what kinds of stuff do you like to develop?
22:55 dalek r34120 | moritz++ | :
22:55 dalek : [rakudo] another file for spectest.data: test passing of optional parameters
22:55 dalek diff: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn​/parrot/revision?rev=34120
22:57 bacek Whiteknight: not GC :)
22:59 Whiteknight that's ok, GC isn't really programming: it's black magic
23:00 chromatic I thought it was a Shinto Shrine.
23:00 bacek Whiteknight: it's not quite true. But it's very low-level stuff. And my C-fu isn't high
23:00 pmichaud It's right next to the shrine for "git".
23:01 Whiteknight but git doesn't require you to sacrifice a pound of flesh to work on it
23:01 * bacek heard rumours about moving parrot to git
23:01 chromatic If only git required a pound of flesh.
23:02 chromatic "Dear git, I don't want to write my own version control system using your plumbing.  I just want to create a patch!  Is that so hard?"
23:02 cotto as in a pound of smoked salmon?  That doesn't sound so bad.
23:02 bacek chromatic: it is... easy.
23:05 chromatic I'd believe it were easy if any Git tutorial gave an explanation of how to do it without first explaining category theory, the Riemann hypothesis, unlambda, and the sexy beauty of the git filesystem, which apparently you really really need to understand before running git-diff.
23:06 moritz chromatic++
23:06 Tene I didn't learn about any of that until after I had been using git for a while.
23:07 chromatic I ran into this when trying to patch Perl 5, which previously meant running rsync to get bleadperl and manually moving and diffing the files that you'd modified, then concatenating individual file diffs into a patch file.
23:07 chromatic Turns out that was *easier* than generating a single diff from git.
23:07 chromatic I don't want to publish my own tree.
23:07 chromatic I don't want to maintain my own branch.
23:08 chromatic I don't want to freshen my breath, whiten my teeth, and increase my magnetism with members of the appropriate gender.
23:08 chromatic I want to check out a project, modify a few files, and generate a patch.
23:08 bacek chromatic: http://www-cs-students.stanford​.edu/~blynn/gitmagic/ch02.html
23:09 bacek chromatic: git clone some-repo; <hack hack hack>; git diff .
23:09 chromatic That doesn't answer my questions though.
23:09 bacek November?
23:09 purl November is at http://www.november-wiki.org/ or http://use.perl.org/~masak/journal/37212 or http://github.com/viklund/november/
23:10 Tene I don't see any questions beyond 'how do I generate a diff?'
23:10 chromatic In my experience, that's missing the magic git add foo.c and git ci foo.c.
23:10 chromatic Then once you've done that, git diff starts generating multiple patch files for you, which is also not what I wanted.
23:11 Tene If you're not wanting to deal with git at all, then don't, and just 'git diff' will show all changes.
23:11 chromatic In my experience, it didn't.
23:11 bacek chromatic: interesting...
23:11 PerlJam chromatic: if you did "git add" first, then you want "git diff --cached"  (weird, I know)
23:11 Tene If you can reproduce, I'm interested to see.  I can't.  I rely on that behavior of git regularly.
23:12 chromatic Now it may have been that the (severe lack of comprehensible) instructions for checking out the Perl 5 sources made me do something far different and wrong, but that's my experience.
23:12 bacek chromatic: anyway. You can always squash few commits into one
23:12 chromatic In particular, I think they had me create a local branch.
23:12 pmichaud while we're on the topic of git, there has been some discussion about moving rakudo into a git repository
23:12 bacek chromatic: you always creates local branch with git
23:12 Tene If you've been doing commits, 'git diff origin' or whatever will show a diff of every difference you've committed.
23:13 bacek chromatic: git just works in this way
23:13 chromatic But git didn't just work.
23:13 chromatic git diff origin didn't just work either.
23:13 pmichaud there's also discussion that perhaps someone else can take the lead for making that happen.  Anyone who might be interested, contact me.  (But do it later, as things are a bit hectic here now.)
23:13 Tene If you used 'git-format-patch', it would generate multiple patches.  'git diff' will just make a plain patch.
23:13 chromatic git diff made multiple patches.
23:14 chromatic I accept that either git or Obama is the second coming for various values of messianic properties, but you're describing things it didn't do for me.
23:14 chromatic That's my frustration.
23:14 PerlJam chromatic: show us a transcript :)
23:15 Tene What you're describing is quite different from my experience.  Every time I have multiple commits, I rely on 'git diff origin' to show me the full differences, in one patch, of everything I'm committing.
23:15 Whiteknight whoa whoa whoa, back it up a bit! Can git really increase your magnetism to members of the opposite gender?!?
23:15 PerlJam Whiteknight: no, only an appropriate gender, where you don't get to decide what it appropriate/
23:15 Tene Every time I have changes that I haven't committed, I use 'git diff' before committing.  It always behaves appropriately.
23:15 nopaste "bacek" at 87.250.243.86 pasted "Simple work with git for chromatic" (21 lines) at http://nopaste.snit.ch/15043
23:15 chromatic I'd love to show you a transcript, but git diff origin mysteriously started working for me.
23:15 PerlJam Whiteknight: unfortunately, it's usually males as  they become in awe of your git-fu.
23:16 PerlJam chromatic: pebkac then!  :)
23:16 Whiteknight meh, I take what I can get
23:17 chromatic I have no doubt that it's a wonderful system, but I find it incomprehensible.
23:17 chromatic How do I revert local changes to a file?
23:17 Tene checkout
23:17 purl hmmm... checkout is still running
23:17 Tene git checkout file
23:18 PerlJam chromatic: git is a bit impenatrable initially.  Once you get over the learning hump of understanding the index and how all of the commands interact with it, its gets *much* easier.
23:18 chromatic I'm sure it does.
23:18 Infinoid ...and once you get used to the weird interactions between stgit and git-svn...
23:19 chromatic I don't mind if it has a learning curve.  I've just never seen a tutorial that assumed I want to hack on a project for a couple of hours without having to learn its internals.
23:19 chromatic Maybe you do have to learn its internals to use it.  That's fine, I suppose.
23:19 Tene chromatic: want me to write one for you?
23:20 PerlJam chromatic: if you haven't seen it already, Randal's git google techtalk is fairly good.
23:20 PerlJam Tene: And put it on the wiki! :)
23:20 chromatic "Using git with Parrot" would be very handy.
23:20 bacek chromatic: "git crash course for svn users"?
23:20 chromatic It will likely come in useful for Rakudo.
23:20 PerlJam chromatic: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8dhZ9BXQgc4  <-- merlyn's techtalk
23:20 chromatic bacek, I tried that one, and it didn't help.  Maybe that's just me.
23:21 Tene chromatic: preferred tutorial format?
23:21 chromatic Tene, assume I'm a non-committer who wants to download the project, stay up to date, and occasionally submit a patch.
23:22 PerlJam wait ... does parrot actually have an "official" git repo?
23:22 Tene Okay.  I'll write that tonight.
23:23 PerlJam Or are we still talking git-svn here?
23:23 * Tene driving home now.
23:24 chromatic Assume git-svn for now, but things should apply pretty well if and when Rakudo moves to git.
23:25 * bacek isn't commiter, who downloaded project, stays up to date and occasionally submit patches
23:25 bacek Using git-svn
23:25 * PerlJam too
23:25 PerlJam (though I do that last bit far less frequently than I should)
23:26 chromatic I thought you had a commit bit, PerlJam.
23:26 PerlJam well ... I *am* a committer, but I have submitted patches on ares where I was unsure of the patch.
23:26 PerlJam a/ares/areaas/
23:26 PerlJam grr
23:26 chromatic Want to work on a GC?
23:27 PerlJam GC is completely opaque to me other than general concepts.
23:27 chromatic Then you're qualified.
23:27 PerlJam heh
23:27 pmichaud anyone who claims to understand GC is lying.  :-)
23:27 chromatic Actually, we could still use people reviewing TODO/SKIP tests to make sure they all have RT or TT numbers.
23:28 chromatic ... if anyone's looking for something to work on today.
23:30 PerlJam I'd like to work on something where I feel like I'm able to make progress.  Unfortunately, I think I'm the only one who can figure that out :)
23:32 chromatic We don't know our current state of what we expect in the tests, and it is a milestone task, so it is progress... at least from the project's point of view.  I can't give you internal motivation.
23:32 chromatic bacek, you're also welcome to help there.
23:33 chromatic AS IS ANY LURKER HELLO WAKE UP EVERYONE!
23:35 Whiteknight not me, I've got too much other stuff to do
23:48 Infinoid Lurk, lurk.
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