Camelia, the Perl 6 bug

IRC log for #parrot, 2009-01-27

Parrot | source cross referenced

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Time Nick Message
00:07 davidfetter joined #parrot
00:07 dalek r36042 | jkeenan++ | trunk/t/pmc:
00:07 dalek : Applying patch submitted by Ron Schmidt in
00:07 dalek : https://trac.parrot.org/parrot/ticket/230.  Uncomment several tests which are
00:07 dalek : now passing.
00:07 dalek review: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn​/parrot/revision?rev=36042
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00:31 particle \o/ i've got NaN/Inf support working here :)
00:31 * Coke finds free wifi at his son's bball practice.
00:34 particle too bad my vm doesn't have net access. sigh.
00:34 nopaste "particle" at 76.121.106.245 pasted "inf/nan handling patch (working)" (382 lines) at http://nopaste.snit.ch/15430
00:34 dmajnem2_ hmm, I think I can replicate test failures on other runcores using more powerful code instrumentation
00:35 Andy joined #parrot
00:43 rg particle: are you sure you want to define the int constants? i'm getting a floating point exception when trying to divide integers by zero.
00:43 particle rg: i may not need the int consts...
00:44 rg after all, there is no integer inf/nan.
00:44 particle yeah, i don't really need them
00:45 particle i'm updating trunk after a vm reboot, to build and run tests now
00:47 particle i've removed the intval stuff locally, rebuilding now
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01:01 bacek_ seen chromatic
01:01 purl chromatic was last seen on #parrot 3 hours, 33 minutes and 33 seconds ago, saying: I think it's part of GCC.
01:02 chromatic pong
01:02 bacek_ chromatic There is typo in Modern::Perl POD: See L<http://http://www.modernperlbooks.com​/mt/2009/01/toward-a-modernperl.html>
01:02 shorten bacek_'s url is at http://xrl.us/bedvt7
01:02 bacek_ double http://http://
01:02 chromatic Where?
01:03 bacek_ chromatic: in url :)
01:03 chromatic Oh I see.
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01:14 Coke chromatic: see this: http://code.google.com/p/partcl/sou​rce/browse/trunk/examples/fact.tcl
01:14 shorten Coke's url is at http://xrl.us/bedvwu
01:14 Coke that generates 10 virtually identical anonymous subs for the [expr] invocation.
01:16 chromatic How "virtually identical" is "virtually identical"?
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02:16 Coke sorry, laptop power died before I could nopaste.
02:16 nopaste "coke" at 72.228.52.192 pasted "evals, this time in order, for fact.tcl" (3157 lines) at http://nopaste.snit.ch/15431
02:17 Coke look at EVAL_53 (... 54, ...55...)
02:22 chromatic That's fairly identical.
02:23 chromatic Do you have an expr builtin?
02:26 Coke yes. [expr] is a sub in runtime/builtin/expr.pir
02:27 chromatic Ah.
02:27 Coke er. not a builtin like a perl builtin.
02:28 chromatic Do you always have to store the arguments to [expr] as a string, or can you parse them to AST nodes?
02:28 chromatic I mean, at compile time.
02:30 * Coke wonders if "EVALS.out" is some kind of special filename.
02:31 Coke chromatic: I don't think I have any infrastructure to support that at the moment, but I think it's doable.
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02:32 chromatic That seems like a fruitful line of research to me.
02:35 chromatic You may have to invoke the toNumber words on the appropriate nodes at runtime, for example, to abuse terms of art from different languages, but you shouldn't have to reparse strings every time.
02:37 Coke i suspect a switch to pct will help facilitate such things.
02:38 Coke my evil plan from some time ago was to put in certain functions into the parse; cheat and make them work like were language syntax. then if someone changed one, update the grammar and rebuild it.
02:40 chromatic Factor does something similar.
02:42 * Coke ig going to have to start blocking game requests on facebook.
02:42 Coke This is crazy.
02:42 chromatic Or you could do what I do, and ignore Facebook.
02:43 * Coke is attempting to be vaguely social, you scumsac.
02:45 Tene IRC counts as socialization.
02:45 Tene ... it had better, at least.
02:48 cotto This is odd.  When the tcl code is called with 1/7.0, assigns the correct value to a float, then the wrong (rounded) value to a different float.
02:49 cotto with 1.0/7.0 it only creates one extra float, with the correct value
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02:54 Coke cotto: presumably because with 1/7.0, we're using tclint's multi for int/float division
02:54 * Coke checks that bit of code.
02:55 Coke hurm. the Multi is just for (Integer, dest0
02:55 Coke hurm. the Multi is just for (Integer, dest)
02:55 Coke so that's probably going to Integer.pmc's divide.
02:57 Coke src/pmc/integer.pmc:777; anything look dodgy there?
02:59 Coke hurm. setting a breakpoint, that isn't invoked.
03:01 cotto Coke, my breakpoint says it is.
03:01 Coke just noticed I was running the wrong code.
03:03 Coke did you pick 1/7.0 because it takes longer to repeat? =-)
03:03 cotto just a bit
03:03 Coke Now that we're not storing the data in the union, using gdb to poke at PMC guts sucks.
03:05 Coke is the resulting PMC a TclFloat or a Float?
03:06 chromatic It should be easier to cast the PMC_data member to the appropriate storage type.
03:07 cotto It's just a little more typing.
03:08 cotto The correctly calculated value is a Float; the rounded value is a TclFloat.
03:09 cotto p *(Parrot_Float_attributes*)pmc->data
03:09 cotto tab completion helps a little
03:10 tewk we really need a set of gdb macros that look at the type id and automatically do the cast and print the object
03:10 Coke how do you get the type of a pmc?
03:11 * Coke overrides the visit vtable temporarily to help figure it out.
03:11 tewk they all have a typeid, or at least a string constant VTABLE->whoami, VTABLE-type
03:11 cotto Coke, p *pmc->vtable->whoami->strstart
03:12 Coke cotto: aha.
03:12 Coke you moved the set_string_native out of the tclobject.
03:12 Coke er, set_number
03:12 Coke originally, when you called that on a tcl it, it did a morph, then assigned.
03:12 cotto (until the strings refactor)
03:12 Coke *tclint
03:13 Coke now, it's not's doing the morph; so you get ints morph. which morphs to a float. which stringifies differently than a tclfloat.
03:13 Coke so if you add a set_number* to tclint that morphs (like the old one on object did), it should work.
03:14 Coke I'm afraid this refactor you're doing obviats the whole 'mixin vtables from tclobject' I was doing.
03:16 cotto I suppose ATTR multiple inheritance would un-obviate it?
03:16 * cotto checks thesaurus
03:16 * cotto feels stupid
03:16 cotto s/un-obviate/allow/
03:21 cotto Coke, it looks like that suggestion fixes the simple test case.
03:21 Coke I hate pmc2c; set_number_native isn't getting translated into /ANYTHING/ in the corresonding c file, it's getting dropped on the floor.
03:21 cotto running make test now
03:22 Coke cotto: for parity, should also override set_number* for TclString
03:22 Coke cotto++
03:22 cotto makes sense
03:24 cotto Coke, the VTABLE function works fine in TclObject
03:25 Coke ;you mean, putting it back there? (didn't your original patch remove it?)
03:26 Coke (when I said mine was getting dropped on the floor, I mean a local mod I was trying to add just now.
03:26 nopaste "cotto" at 96.26.202.243 pasted "likely tcl float fix" (16 lines) at http://nopaste.snit.ch/15432
03:26 cotto running make test...
03:26 Coke cotto: ok. (we have the type id of tclfloat lying around, I'll sub that in.
03:27 cotto of course
03:27 cotto I had copy/pasted from when I put it in TclInt
03:28 cotto Coke, do you have something like spectest_regression for tcl?
03:30 Coke cotto: no; I have no way atm to disable particular tests inside a test file.
03:30 Coke (for the tcl spec tests)
03:30 Coke but if you run one of the test files, you could compare the results against the output in docs/*current*
03:30 Coke "tools/spectcl mathop" - mathop.test was the one with the 8 new failures.
03:32 cotto running...
03:33 cotto Coke, you might also change TclObject's set_integer_native to use VTABLE_set_integer_native instead of PMC_int_val.
03:34 Coke mmm, avoid revisiting this in the future. =-)
03:34 cotto That's what all of this debugging boils down to.
03:35 Coke changed, retesting core tests...
03:36 cotto What version of tcl are you targeting?
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03:40 Coke 8.5.6
03:41 dmajnem2 is there any procedure to debugging a runcore?
03:42 Coke cotto: if I change set_integer_native to use         VTABLE_set_integer_native(INTERP, SELF, value);
03:42 Coke instead of:
03:43 Coke PMC_int_val(SELF) = value;
03:43 Coke I fail tragically. "prove t/cmd_list.t" just dies, e.g.
03:50 cotto nuts
03:50 cotto I'll have to play around with that.
03:50 Coke reverted to a fix that includes the float stuff though, retesting to make sure I didn't hose it.
03:51 Coke cotto++
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04:14 dmajnem2 I have a build failure using --m=32 on a 64 bit machine using icc 11 as my compiler. Is this unheard of?
04:16 chromatic I don't know if anyone else has tried it.
04:17 nopaste "dmajnem2" at 64.198.244.3 pasted "icc build failure with --m=32 on a 64 bit arch" (21 lines) at http://nopaste.snit.ch/15433
04:18 dmajnem2 chromatic: what should is the best thing for me to do?
04:18 dmajnem2 should I try to triage it myself?
04:20 chromatic Yeah, the more information you can get out of the segfault the better.
04:21 dmajnem2 it seems that debugging symbols are not compiled in by default :/
04:22 chromatic They should be, unless you used --optimize.
04:22 dmajnem2 nope
04:22 cotto Coke,  it looks like that patch (set_number_native) makes mathop.test pass more tests than in spectest.current (158 sv 151)
04:25 Coke yes, because I ran the spec test after we started getting this failure.
04:25 Coke so this fixes that error (which i hadn't verified was coming from this work, but probably was.)
04:26 Coke committed.
04:29 Coke always happy to get patches for tcl. =)
04:46 cotto The segfault happens because Parrot_TclObject_set_integer_native calls itself recursively.  For some reason TclFloat has Float's set_number_native, so it's fine.
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04:51 cotto If I reverse the order of the "extends" lines in TclInt, TclFloat's set_x_native VTABLE functions become infinitely recursive.
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05:25 s1n can i do % (mod) directly in PIR like you can +?
05:27 TiMBuS i don't think so s1n
05:28 dalek joined #parrot
05:28 s1n TiMBuS: what kind of data types do i get in PIR then if i have to compute this manually?
05:29 TiMBuS parrot has a mod opcode, you just cant use it inline like + - etc
05:29 TiMBuS you'd have to use 'mod $I0, $I1'
05:30 s1n you have to manually spell mod like that?
05:30 TiMBuS ooor, maybe you can use it inline.
05:30 TiMBuS its how i use it
05:31 TiMBuS i was wrong though, you can use it inline with the % operator, i just checked the pir pdd
05:32 s1n TiMBuS: i'm trying out your first suggesting now
05:33 s1n error:imcc:syntax error, unexpected PARROT_OP ('mod')
05:37 TiMBuS that odd
05:37 TiMBuS how did you use it
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05:45 TiMBuS s1n, you'd get that error if you weren't putting your ops inside a subroutine block.
06:07 dalek r36043 | petdance++ | trunk/src/gc:
06:07 dalek : one teeny const
06:07 dalek review: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn​/parrot/revision?rev=36043
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06:54 dalek r36044 | petdance++ | trunk/languages/perl6/src/pmc (3 files):
06:54 dalek : consting and localizing
06:54 dalek review: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn​/parrot/revision?rev=36044
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07:09 TiMBuS hey woah, the new make html output is pretty
07:10 cotto apparently I can control the economy (.com) for a mere $175,000
07:11 TiMBuS sounds like a good deal to me
07:12 TiMBuS pay in zimbabwe dollars
07:12 cotto TiMBuS++ #Ironic as it is, I don't think they'd accept that.
07:15 TiMBuS :>
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07:33 dalek r36045 | allison++ | trunk (45 files):
07:33 dalek : [pdd28str] Merging in the pdd28str_part1 branch. Large file renaming in strings
07:33 dalek : subsystem for greater maintenance sanity.
07:33 dalek review: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn​/parrot/revision?rev=36045
07:34 dalek r36046 | allison++ | branches:
07:34 dalek : Removing first strings refactor branch from the repository
07:34 dalek review: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn​/parrot/revision?rev=36046
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07:36 Phurl hi all
07:36 Phurl anyone using pipp?
07:36 moritz seen barney
07:36 purl barney was last seen on #parrot 18 hours, 29 minutes and 15 seconds ago, saying: A usable PIR lib for filepath manipulation would be nice.
07:37 moritz Phurl: barney is the main developer, but it seems he's not around at the moment
07:38 moritz you can always send a mail to the list (parrot-dev@lists.parrot.org) if have some questions
07:38 cotto Phurl, what's your question?
07:38 Phurl well, I have it now installed
07:38 Phurl built tests
07:38 Phurl and want to know if there is any chance of running anything larger with it
07:39 Phurl on the joomla/index.php i get :
07:39 Phurl Couldn't find constant __FILE__
07:39 cotto It's definitely not ready to run any full apps
07:40 Phurl http://pastebin.com/f13342886
07:40 Phurl ok
07:40 Phurl well, I can report bugs if you want
07:40 * Phurl is a good bug reporter
07:40 cotto excellent
07:40 Phurl ok
07:41 Phurl then I will see what I can do
07:41 Phurl https://trac.parrot.org ?
07:41 cotto You shouldn't have trouble finding any at this stage. ;)
07:41 moritz yes, that one :/
07:41 cotto yup.  Use Parrot's trac for now.
07:41 Phurl :)
07:43 * Phurl condenses a testcase
07:45 Phurl quite simple : define('JPATH_BASE', dirname(__FILE__) ); where __FILE__ is not defined.
07:45 Phurl :>
07:45 Phurl TICKET_CREATE privileges are required to perform this operation
07:45 Phurl uid:h4ck3rm1k3
07:46 cotto Annotations (i.e. filename and line #) were only recently added to Parrot.  It'll be a little while before they filter to the HLLs like Pipp.
07:46 cotto Hmm.  I thought all registered users could submit tickets.
07:47 Phurl ahh
07:47 Phurl i had to verify
07:47 Phurl doh
07:47 Phurl ok
07:48 Phurl i will add that to the ticke cotto
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07:57 cotto actually now that I think about it, I think they also need to be integrated into PCT before the PCT-based HLLs can use them
07:58 Phurl ok
07:59 Phurl i will add that too
07:59 Phurl https://trac.parrot.org/parrot/ticket/232
08:00 Phurl so my workaround just replace the __file__ with values an continue testing
08:00 Phurl is there an #ifdef parrot?
08:00 Phurl ;)
08:04 cotto Phurl, you don't need to add what I say to the ticket.  Barney follows Parrot too and should know the status of annotations.
08:06 Phurl so you can now add annotations when you with some syntax reference the ticket number in the chat?
08:07 Phurl ok, so I got the page to process, /home/mdupont/2009/01/php/parrot/parrot src/common/pipp.pir  /home/mdupont/2009/01/conferenc​e/code/joomla/index_parrot.php
08:07 cotto you're missing a verb
08:07 Phurl but it just emits the php code
08:08 cotto I'd be beyond surprised if it worked.  It's very much a work in progress.
08:08 Phurl ok
08:10 cotto If you want to help, there should be lots of functions in src/common that need implementing.
08:10 cotto They're written in PIR, but it's not too hard apart from being fairly low-level.
08:10 Phurl i see
08:11 Phurl ok, but the ./pipp should in theory do something
08:11 Phurl ./pipp  ./t/php/arithmetics_1.php
08:11 Phurl
08:11 Phurl ok that works
08:12 Phurl just not the more complex suff
08:12 Phurl well enough
08:12 Phurl at least I tried! now to try the phc
08:12 Phurl :)
08:12 cotto Are you playing with alternative PHP implementations?
08:12 Phurl If I can get something running, then it is possible to port the needed functions
08:12 Phurl I am just looking at what workds
08:13 Phurl it would be nice to help parrot along the way of course
08:13 cotto Are you using Parrot from svn?
08:13 Phurl yes
08:13 Phurl i just built it, as indicated in the ticket
08:13 Phurl trunk
08:13 Phurl I dont mind helping
08:13 Phurl but i would like to try phc next
08:14 Phurl so i can see what works
08:26 Phurl ./pipp --variant=phc ./t/php/arithmetics_1.php  | sh: phc: not found  | Creating XML-AST with phc failed
08:27 Phurl ahh, it can use phc
08:27 Phurl ?
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09:58 dalek r36047 | bernhard++ | trunk/examples/pir:
09:58 dalek : [examples] fix a typo
09:58 dalek review: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn​/parrot/revision?rev=36047
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10:52 dalek r36048 | bernhard++ | trunk/config/auto/backtrace:
10:52 dalek : [codingstd] svn properties
10:52 dalek review: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn​/parrot/revision?rev=36048
11:00 dalek r36049 | bernhard++ | trunk/src/pmc (2 files):
11:00 dalek : [codingstd] c_parens.t, trailing_space.t, linelength.t
11:00 dalek review: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn​/parrot/revision?rev=36049
11:03 dalek r36050 | bernhard++ | trunk/src:
11:03 dalek : Let svn ignore object files in src/string
11:03 dalek review: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn​/parrot/revision?rev=36050
11:04 dalek r36051 | bernhard++ | trunk:
11:04 dalek : Regenerate MANIFEST.SKIP
11:04 dalek review: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn​/parrot/revision?rev=36051
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11:06 dalek r36052 | bernhard++ | trunk (2 files):
11:06 dalek : Let svn ingnore external language pjs
11:06 dalek review: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn​/parrot/revision?rev=36052
11:11 cotto Hmmm.  It appears that check_named reads past the end of an array.
11:21 cotto Sigh.  One stupid hack deserves another (and a bug report).
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12:07 TiMBuS anybody know how to get a pmc from a specific namespace from inside a pmc?
12:08 TiMBuS i was using Parrot_find_name_op but i've moved the pmc it was getting to another namespace and now im stuck =/
12:09 TiMBuS ehh maybe ill just write a sub in pir to do that then call it from the pmc..
12:12 register I can't build parrot on windows.
12:12 register I am working with vs 2008 and strawberry perl
12:13 register perl Configure.pl returns an error in test_6784.exe
12:13 register then after nmake the build process starts and continues for a while
12:14 register until i get an error on the PGE.pbc file
12:14 register it happens that the parrot vm is correctly built
12:14 register but the make process doesn't terminate correctly
12:16 TiMBuS did you try to build optimized?
12:18 register no
12:18 register i just ran perl Configure.pl
12:19 TiMBuS you might need to make a bug report.
12:21 register i'll write on the mailing list
12:21 TiMBuS oh wait, is the error
12:21 TiMBuS Perlbinperl.exe: command not found mingw32-make
12:22 register mingw32-make.EXE: *** [PGE.pbc] Error -1073741819
12:22 register is this one
12:23 TiMBuS it might be related to this? https://trac.parrot.org/parrot/ticket/114
12:23 TiMBuS since strawberry comes with mingw but you're using visual studio it sounds like this is the issue
12:25 register could be
12:25 register i'll try to set the make variable
12:25 dalek r36053 | cotto++ | trunk (11 files):
12:25 dalek : [pmc] update *IntegerArray to use ATTRs
12:25 dalek review: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn​/parrot/revision?rev=36053
12:27 dalek r36054 | rurban++ | trunk/tools/dev:
12:27 dalek : Fix TT #208 pbc_to_exe --install needs to use the path to the installed libparrot
12:27 dalek : - Use rpath_lib instead of rpath_blib on --install
12:27 dalek review: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn​/parrot/revision?rev=36054
12:31 pancake is there any example or tutorial about how to embed parrot in an application, or how to create a parrot binding for a library?
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12:39 register this is really funny
12:39 register :D
12:40 register i forced to use nmake by editing MAKE=nmake in the makefile
12:40 register the build process went farther than before
12:40 register but now is looping on nmake docs
12:40 TiMBuS =/
12:41 TiMBuS take out make docs?
12:42 register done
12:42 register different error in different area
12:42 register :D
12:42 register well
12:42 register tonight i will try to build with activestate
12:43 register and i will update the bug report pointed out bu timbus
12:44 TiMBuS if you use activestate, dont forget to fully remove strawberry perl first
12:44 TiMBuS or it'll probably get worse =/
12:45 register sure sure
12:48 rurban TiMBuS: Where is your nmake bug report?
12:49 TiMBuS i didn't make one, it was yours
12:49 rurban I'm just trying now a MSVC6 with nmake build
12:49 TiMBuS oh wait, not yours, i got you confused with rblasch
12:50 TiMBuS https://trac.parrot.org/parrot/ticket/114 <- thats the report I found
12:51 rurban I get an undefined opengl_lib error in config/gen/makefiles/root.in
12:53 rurban Otherwise it works fine. The reporter obviously forgot to do make realclean
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13:07 mj41 cotto: r36053 probably broke t/examples/shootout.t - see http://tt.ro.vutbr.cz/report/pr-Parrot/do?trun-93​46=on&amp;trun-9338=on&amp;Submit=Do+what+I+mean
13:07 shorten mj41's url is at http://xrl.us/bedw9s
13:07 rurban matisse misses TAP::Harness::Archive on his BuildBot
13:08 rurban What is Matisse Enzer's email?
13:09 cotto mj41: I can't access your server, but it does appear to be quite broken.
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13:23 masak rakudo: say 'test'
13:23 polyglotbot OUTPUT[test␤]
13:23 masak rakudo: class A { has $.b; }; while shift [A.new( :b(0) )] -> $a { say $a.b; $a.clone( :b($a.b + 1) ); say $a.b; last; }
13:23 polyglotbot OUTPUT[0␤1␤]
13:23 * masak submits rakudobug
13:27 Coke_z masak;when reading those bug reports, it would help me if it showed the expected output.
13:27 * Coke is only casually aware of p6 syn.
13:28 masak Coke: acknowledged.
13:29 Coke keep in mind that i'm probably not the one who is going to be /fixing/ the bug, so it doesn't help from that perspective. =-)
13:29 Coke s/probably//
13:29 cotto Looks like a Heisenbug.  It fails in with prove but works fine when I run the pir manually.
13:30 masak Coke: sometimes I think the expected output is evident. sometimes I write a descriptive subject line instead.
13:31 masak but you're right, I should be explicit.
13:31 Coke cotto: what are you working on now?
13:32 cotto my last commit somehow broke t/examples/shootout.t
13:32 Coke we use to break that all the time, when I was your age!
13:32 cotto but only if it's run via prove
13:33 Coke built character!
13:33 Coke prove uses the harness, no?
13:33 Coke perhaps that's passing an extra arg to the parrot executable?
13:33 * Coke can never remember.
13:44 cotto Bah.  I neglected to clean out a bunch of code that uses macros that depend on the UnionVal.
13:45 masak Coke: in the above case, a .clone should never change the original object. but it does.
13:45 masak not in most cases, but in this particular one.
13:49 iblechbot joined #parrot
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14:38 rdice joined #parrot
15:00 tetragon joined #parrot
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15:30 uniejo joined #parrot
15:33 Coke urk? in tcl, unsetting the last element of an associative array apparently undefs the array.
15:35 Coke urk? I'm hallucinating. good!
15:54 dalek r36055 | pmichaud++ | trunk/languages/perl6/docs:
15:54 dalek : [rakudo]: spectest-progress.csv update: 295 files, 6546 passing, 0 failing
15:54 dalek review: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn​/parrot/revision?rev=36055
15:57 * Coke fixes one tcl spectest for his break.
16:01 Andy joined #parrot
16:07 galf joined #parrot
16:18 dmajnem2 joined #parrot
16:20 Coke pmichaud: very very slight preference for svn, but only because I don't use git on a regular basis.
16:20 dalek r36056 | julianalbo++ | trunk/src:
16:20 dalek : fix a const issue that disallows c++ build
16:20 dalek review: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn​/parrot/revision?rev=36056
16:21 Tene joined #parrot
16:24 jonathan hi all
16:24 * jonathan is back from his birthday break
16:24 Coke jonathan: happy birthday!
16:24 purl for (('to you', 'dear '.shift)[0,0,1,0]) { print "Happy birthday $_" }
16:25 pmichaud Coke: noted, thanks.
16:26 Coke of course, since I broke spec test the last time I committed anything, you can safely ignore me. =-)
16:26 * jonathan wonders who wanted him, way way back in the backscroll...
16:26 * Coke might have.
16:26 PerlJam pm: you're taking a poll?
16:26 * Coke has no idea.
16:26 Coke PerlJam: check yer mail.
16:26 pmichaud PerlJam:  yes, see email.  Also http://spreadsheets.google.com/​ccc?key=pZ79Xy5DzR9Fl0Uf1-ouPHQ
16:26 shorten pmichaud's url is at http://xrl.us/bedxsq
16:27 PerlJam pm: I prefer git, but I'm fine with svn.
16:30 uniejo joined #parrot
16:31 jonathan OK, whoever wanted me, it's so far back in the backscroll that I don't see it. But I'm sure if it's important you'll ping me again. ;-)
16:31 jonathan pmichaud: How's things going? Any Rakudo news?
16:32 pmichaud jonathan: not from my end -- had sick kids + wife for this past week, and I wasn't feeling so hot myself so didn't get much done.
16:33 jonathan pmichaud: OK, sounds un-fun. :-(
16:33 jonathan Hope everyone is well again soon.
16:33 Coke pmichaud: wasn't a stomach bug, wozzit?
16:33 pmichaud Coke: no, mostly sniffles and fevers for the others
16:33 pmichaud for me, I just felt... "out of phase"
16:34 pmichaud wasn't able to concentrate well; in such cases it's often best to not be doing code :-)
16:34 Coke pmichaud: like on http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Next_Phase ? =-)
16:38 pmichaud Coke:   yes, something like that.
16:38 pmichaud Except in my case I was trying to avoid others instead of get their attention. :-)
16:39 uniejo joined #parrot
16:40 PerlJam pm: are you going to add a "weight" column to the spreadsheet?  :)
16:40 pmichaud no.
16:40 particle jonathan: how many rakudo spectest failures do you get these days?
16:41 pmichaud there is a weight, but it's a hidden factor that will enable me to get the outcome I want.  As soon as I know what that outcome is.  :-P
16:41 * particle checks out a clean parrot
16:41 * particle has 17 rakudo spectest failures with his NaN/Inf patch atm
16:42 Coke particle: down from?
16:42 pmichaud particle:  note that it's very unlikely you'll be able to do "svn switch --relocate" and be done with it.
16:42 PerlJam pm: why is that?
16:42 particle down from 60
16:42 pmichaud because rakudo is very unlikely to continue living in the languages/perl6/ directory of parrot.
16:43 particle pmichaud: will you rely on installed parrot, then?
16:43 uniejo joined #parrot
16:43 PerlJam pm: yeah, but he can still switch that subtree I'm fairly sure.
16:43 pmichaud particle: we'll probably have a local copy of parrot in the rakudo repository.
16:43 particle i should be able to switch the subtree to a subtree of the rakudo repo
16:43 pmichaud PerlJam: my point is that rakudo may no longer be in languages, period.  And that the Configure.pl/Makefile will be different.
16:43 Coke pmichaud: if you go with svn, perhaps an svn:externals link tied to a specific revision would be better.
16:43 particle the parrot subtree
16:43 Coke (just a thought)
16:44 jonathan particle: Will check - not built Rakudo since maybe Friday or so.
16:44 particle we previously outlawed svn:externals because it doesn't play well with svk.
16:44 Coke particle: that was for parrot.
16:44 PerlJam particle: have you ever used git?
16:44 particle Coke: ah, right!
16:44 purl ah, right! is that documented well enough?
16:44 jonathan particle: Building latest now.
16:44 pmichaud in other words, regardless of svn or git, I don't think that the process will be   "check out a copy of parrot, check out a copy of rakudo into languages/..."
16:45 particle perljam: i tried checking something out once with git. i don't know if it's msys, git, my lack of focus, or age creeping up on me, but i can't get a handle on git
16:45 pmichaud the process is more likely to be:  "check out a copy of rakudo, run Configure.pl in that directory"
16:46 particle pmichaud: and... set this env var to the location of parrot?
16:46 PerlJam particle: okay, so there's a learning curve associated with git that wouldn't be there with svn.  That's another important factor for you.
16:46 particle because i can set ../..
16:46 pmichaud particle: if not using the copy of parrot from the rakudo repository, yes.
16:47 particle pm: i thought you expected core rakudo hackers wouldn't use the parrot in rakudo repo
16:47 particle would instead use parrot head
16:47 pmichaud core rakudo hackers who are also hacking on parrot will probably use parrot head
16:47 pmichaud but I think there are only 3 or 4 of us
16:47 particle that's me!
16:47 pmichaud there will be some "core rakudo hackers" who will work with the latest designated version of parrot.
16:48 jonathan Are we still pondering having the "current" copy of Parrot that Rakudo is being developed against duplicated into the Rakudo repo?
16:48 particle ok, so call me a bleadrakudo hacker
16:48 pmichaud jonathan: yes, that's still my intent.
16:48 jonathan OK
16:48 jonathan I would likely just use that.
16:48 pmichaud either a copy, or the parrot subversion number to be checked out.
16:49 PerlJam the intersectiong of "core rakudo hackers" with "core parrot hackers" will have a slightly more complex time of things if one of parrot or rakudo moves to git.
16:49 PerlJam s/ng/n/
16:49 particle i like subversion number, because then i can change from 34567 to HEAD
16:49 jonathan That way, Parrot breakage doesn't impact Rakudo hacking so much.
16:49 jonathan particle: Yeah, good point.
16:49 pmichaud the point being that a typical person obtaining rakudo shouldn't have to worry about the version of parrot
16:49 jonathan Agree.
16:50 particle if i *need* git to work on rakudo, i'll get it, and figure out how to use it.
16:50 pmichaud we'll undoubtedly publish instructions.
16:50 particle i really just want the distraction to be over with quickly.
16:51 gryphon joined #parrot
16:51 Coke pmichaud: (version of parrot) If you really want to enable casual usage, I'd recommend having a "stable" version of rakudo that targets the last released version of parrot.
16:51 particle let me apologize to everyone here if i come off as cranky, i haven't slept well.
16:52 particle last released isn't new enough, frequently.
16:52 Coke then you can have a stable branch of rakudo that's guaranteed to work against that version of parrot, and a bleed version that works against trunk.
16:52 particle but, a tagged version or revision number, yeah.
16:52 Coke particle: define "new enough". you don't need to have all your recent progress avaialable on stable.
16:52 particle coke: note that some rakudo progress relies on pct progress
16:52 Coke particle: so?
16:52 purl Yeah, so?
16:53 pmichaud last released version of parrot will often not be new enough for rakudo.
16:53 Coke if you want to track a months worth of progress, yes.
16:53 Coke why not have a stable version that doesn't get all the new features right away?
16:53 pmichaud because people currently expect the new features
16:53 Coke <shrug> then they need to use trunk.
16:53 pmichaud no, not necessarily.
16:54 Coke Ok. That's my 2c.
16:54 pmichaud sometimes parrot trunk breaks rakudo.  This is more likely to happen when the repos split.
16:54 pmichaud I don't want rakudo progress to halt just because parrot trunk changed.
16:54 Coke pmichaud: I know the deal. I've already done this.
16:55 pmichaud so, we'll track along behind trunk a ways.
16:55 particle ...and you're targeting 0.8.1 because 0.9.0 broke rakudo.
16:55 Coke no, I'm targeting 0.8.1 because I'm lazy.
16:55 Coke if anyone actually cared about partcl, I'd bother updating to use the latest parrot release for my stable branch.
16:55 pmichaud my target audience gives me less room for laziness.
16:55 Coke look, I made a suggestion. You don't have to take it. arguing with me isn't going to convince me, and you don't /need/ to convince me. =-)
16:56 Coke You've said no. I've moved on.
16:56 pmichaud no problem
16:56 pmichaud I figured we were just exploring.  Thanks, opinions noted.
16:56 particle coke: i saw a CF/Perl job last week, thought of you.
16:56 particle ...and shuddered.
16:56 Coke I get that alot.
16:57 particle i think it was in atlanta.
16:58 particle the perl6str get_number inf/nan stuff doesn't seem to be working on windows. i think that's the last of what i need to fix before applying this patch
16:59 pmichaud particle: perl6str simply passes the work off to parrot.
16:59 particle no, it looks for lc(nan) or lc(inf)
17:00 particle i think that's failing. i'll know more soon
17:00 pmichaud sure, it looks for those strings, but the actual setting of nan or inf is done by parrot, iirc.
17:00 gryphon joined #parrot
17:00 pmichaud and it actually looks for nan/inf regardless of case
17:00 pmichaud (it's a case-insensitive compare)
17:01 particle yes
17:01 particle sorry, i typed that wrong.
17:01 particle ok, i'm running spectest on a clean parrot/rakudo now, will see how many failures in trunk head
17:02 particle pmichaud: is there a reason not to use tools/test_summary.pl as the spectest make target?
17:02 particle it's *so* much better than t/harness results
17:03 pmichaud particle: people are very used to the traditional harness; I haven't been wanting to push a break from that yet
17:03 moritz particle: IMHO it's a bit too verbose for casual checking
17:03 pmichaud well, we could certainly add some switches to make it less verbose :-)
17:03 uniejo joined #parrot
17:03 particle ah, i run spectest with HARNESS_VERBOSE=1 anyway, so i don't notice that it's noisier
17:06 pmichaud parrotsketch in 84
17:07 particle if i can just get this to work, i'll have fixed inf/nan: is +'Inf' == Inf
17:26 jonathan particle: Sorry, got distracted here - spectest is running now.
17:26 particle jonathan: i got 60 failures in my clean wc
17:27 particle i have one question... should we standardize on Inf/NaN, or inf/nan.
17:28 particle i may bring it up at #ps
17:28 pmichaud perl5 uses inf/nan
17:28 particle perl5 doesn't have a portable inf/nan impl
17:28 particle so, linux uses inf/nan.
17:29 cognominal joined #parrot
17:29 particle windows native is 1.#INF and -1.#IND
17:29 pmichaud I think that glibc uses inf/nan
17:29 particle i was thinking it might be better to use lc, since it doesn't look like a type then
17:29 Coke tcl uses Inf
17:30 dmajnem2_ joined #parrot
17:30 pmichaud Perl 6 appears to use Inf and NaN
17:30 Coke (are you trying to decide for parrot or rakudo?)
17:30 dmajnem2_ where is parrot supposed to do strength reduction? At the assembler or the JIT?
17:30 particle trying to decide for parrot.
17:31 particle ok, since tcl and perl 6 are caps, i'll go with that.
17:31 particle there's also the INF/NaN and INF/NAN crowd, but i'll ignore them for now
17:32 particle java is INF/NaN iirc
17:32 * Coke wonders how to generate a nan in tcl.
17:32 particle 0.0 / 0.0
17:33 particle Inf - Inf
17:33 Coke "divide by zero"
17:33 Coke domain error: argument not in valid range
17:33 Coke tcl's too smaht for you. =-)
17:33 particle a = 0; 0 / a
17:33 NotFound
17:34 Coke particle: it's a runtime check too. =-)
17:35 hercynium joined #parrot
17:35 jonathan particle: Failed 4/295 test scripts. 58/8358 subtests failed.
17:35 jonathan Need details?
17:36 particle jonathan: no, thanks, that'll do
17:36 pmichaud the Open Group says that infinity/nan should convert to "inf" and "nan"  :-)
17:36 particle with my patch, it's:
17:36 particle Failure summary:
17:36 particle S03-operators/smartmatch.rakudo 81 - NaN ~~ Nan is True
17:36 pmichaud or "infinity"
17:37 particle pmichaud: link?
17:37 purl link is crap
17:37 pmichaud http://www.opengroup.org/onlinepub​s/000095399/functions/sprintf.html
17:37 shorten pmichaud's url is at http://xrl.us/bedx2w
17:37 Coke no purl, link is <reply>
17:37 purl okay, Coke.
17:37 Theory joined #parrot
17:38 jonathan particle: Is this a patch not checked in yet?
17:38 particle jonathan: not yet, but very close now. lemme nopaste
17:38 jonathan OK, great!
17:38 pmichaud particle: if your patch results in only one failure I don't mind regressing.
17:38 * jonathan will be happy to see these fails go away
17:38 pmichaud we can fix that one regression easily enough.
17:38 jonathan Aye.
17:39 particle pmichaud: should be a straightforward fix
17:39 particle ah, hrmm...
17:42 nopaste "particle" at 76.121.106.245 pasted "portable Inf/NaN" (391 lines) at http://nopaste.snit.ch/15435
17:42 particle i think there are some spectest updates, with 4 or so newly passing tests
17:42 particle if that could be tested on linux, i'll commit shortly
17:43 pmichaud particle: does this only allow "inf" and "nan" as strings?
17:43 pmichaud i.e., case-sensitive?
17:43 particle Inf and NaN
17:43 particle case sensitive, yes
17:43 pmichaud case-sensitive?
17:44 pmichaud oooh, that's bad.  Most libraries accept case insensitive values.
17:44 particle that can be fixed later, then.
17:44 Coke particle: I think that the single statement if blocks are a coding std violation, fyi.
17:44 pmichaud at least, most of the ones I've found.  Rakudo should continue to be case-insensitive, at any rate.
17:44 Coke (can just write them without braces). otherwise looks like a small, applyable patch.
17:45 particle coke: if you're talking about spf_render.c, yes, i put braces in there because the else isn't a single statement, and i wanted the paragraph to use consistent formatting. i think pdd07 allows that.
17:45 Coke (is there already an Inf test?)
17:46 pmichaud does an installed parrot also install its header files?
17:46 pmichaud I need to set up a test vm where I can play with make install.
17:46 particle i sure hope so
17:46 particle inf test, haven't checked...
17:48 Coke patch seems to think your patch is malformed.
17:51 particle it's direct from svn di. hrmm
17:52 Coke missing header for unified diff at line 135 of patch
17:52 Coke can't find file to patch at input line 135
17:54 particle ah, it's probably some ^M chars, i'll renopaste
17:56 NotFound pmichaud: you can play with make install using --prefix
17:57 pmichaud NotFound: that's good idea too.
17:59 nopaste "particle" at 76.121.106.245 pasted "portable Inf/NaN (no Ctrl-M)" (314 lines) at http://nopaste.snit.ch/15436
17:59 NotFound A chrooted environment is another way, but needs more work
18:01 PerlJam I little while ago I replied to a Daniel Ruoso on perl6-compiler and that email hasn't shown up.  Does that mailing list silently drop email from addresses that aren't in the subscriber list?
18:02 Coke particle: did you ever see my post to the list regarding "why named tests" ?
18:03 Coke (speaking of dropped msgs.)
18:03 pmichaud PerlJam: they get moderated
18:03 pmichaud PerlJam: I've even had my messages get moderated from time to time.  it's weird.
18:03 chromatic joined #parrot
18:03 NotFound Who moderates the moderators?
18:04 chromatic Alan Moore
18:05 particle coke: yes, i did, thanks
18:05 particle i do understand the desire for named and even unique tests, but damned if i'm going to let it happen! ;)
18:07 Coke particle: it's one thing I've always disliked about TAP.
18:07 Coke particle: that version applies. 'make test': 100%
18:08 particle yay, thanks!
18:08 Coke (but the potential lack of Inf tests concerns me slightly)
18:08 particle i'll write one up, then commit
18:09 Coke (i tested on osx/86, btw)
18:09 PerlJam Coke: the main problem with named tests that they require the human to come up with the names.
18:11 Coke PerlJam: which is demonstrably not hard.
18:11 Coke in fact, you could code it. =-)
18:11 PerlJam heh
18:11 Coke chromatic++ # have you seen the fake news footage of doctor manhattan?
18:12 chromatic No, I try only to watch movies that won't suck.
18:12 Coke chromatic: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nd5cInmK6LQ
18:12 barney joined #parrot
18:12 PerlJam chromatic: you won't watch many movies do you?
18:13 jhorwitz joined #parrot
18:13 chromatic True.
18:15 geof joined #parrot
18:17 allison joined #parrot
18:17 Coke chromatic: I am going to have to buy the damn bound edition to re-read.
18:18 Coke Pretty sure I have the original issues still in bags/boards.
18:18 chromatic I re-read it recently.  Its structure depends on the comic format.
18:23 NotFound xlibtest.perl fails with: Method 'HOW' not found for invocant of class 'Xlib;Display'
18:23 NotFound s/perl/p6
18:24 dalek r36057 | particle++ | trunk (11 files):
18:24 dalek : [core] portable Inf/NaN support
18:24 dalek : ~ adds configure code to set min/max constants for FLOATVAL
18:24 dalek : ~ modifies Parrot_sprintf_format and string_to_num to handle two-way string/number conversion
18:24 dalek : ~ adds basic Inf/NaN math test
18:25 dalek : note: currently parrot accepts 'Inf' and 'NaN' values in N registers, which disagrees with the open group's spec, but agrees with Tcl and Perl 6 specs
18:25 dalek review: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn​/parrot/revision?rev=36057
18:26 dalek r36058 | particle++ | trunk/languages/perl6/src/pmc:
18:26 dalek : [rakudo] make Inf/NaN support portable
18:26 dalek : +58 tests with msvc
18:26 dalek review: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn​/parrot/revision?rev=36058
18:28 moritz particle**
18:28 moritz particle++ I meant ;-)
18:32 kj ps?
18:32 purl ps is probably postscript or process status or see "parrotsketch" or non-vector?!
18:33 PerlJam yeah, it looks like ps is a little late in getting started
18:33 chromatic I was eating toast is why.
18:33 moritz how dare you?
18:34 particle oh crap, that time already?
18:34 Infinoid Toast has realtime scheduler priority.
18:37 dalek r36059 | moritz++ | trunk/languages/perl6/t:
18:37 dalek : [rakudo] add a few more passing tests to t/spectest.data.
18:37 dalek : Restore alphabetical ordering.
18:37 dalek review: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn​/parrot/revision?rev=36059
18:38 Coke src/inter_call.c:1404: warning: nested extern declaration of 'GETATTR_FixedIntegerArray_int_array'
18:38 * Coke bets that's cotto.
18:42 chromatic jhorwitz, you could make the idx parameter to Parrot_get_vtable_name UINTVAL.
18:43 Coke kj: parrot should never segfault, even on invalid pbc.
18:43 jhorwitz chromatic: easy enough. but conceptually i'm doing the right thing here?
18:43 chromatic Yeah, I think so.
18:44 Infinoid kj: if pbc is portable to different platforms, I'd love to take a look at the crash under gdb
18:44 chromatic allison might want to look at it too.
18:44 chromatic I don't think you need PARROT_EXPORT though.
18:45 kj Coke: it's hard to tell what's happening in my normal windows shell, as it seems that Windows seg faults are not so spectacular as on linux. but my attempts on moritz++ 's linux box do clearly segfault, indicating memory errors (invalid or whatever, can't remember)
18:45 jhorwitz chromatic: was following along the lines of Parrot_get_vtable_index, which is PARROT_EXPORT.  not surprising.... ;-)
18:46 allison chromatic: look at what?
18:46 chromatic TT #185
18:46 kj Infinoid: the generated PBC can be disassembled using pbc_disassemble, so pbc_dis. thinks it's valid PBC ;-)
18:46 chromatic NotFound, I agree with your idea in TT #210.
18:46 particle kj: windows will return a negative exit code on "segfault"
18:47 masak joined #parrot
18:47 kj particle: ah yes, that's what I was planning, write some kind of script to run the program and check the return value. thanks for reminding :-)
18:47 rurban joined #parrot
18:47 NotFound chromatic: I know
18:48 Coke_away I'm going offline. anyone has questions for me that are #ps related, email's best.
18:48 NotFound Maybe for the first time I have a question with a short answer X-)
18:49 kj Infinoid: shall I send the PIR script that's segfaulting, or do you want the PBC? PIRC builds without any problems on linux.
18:50 Infinoid I don't know how to use PIRC.  instructions on how to make it crash are just as good
18:51 kj use pirc: (1) make (2) ./pirc -b <pir file> (3) parrot a.pbc
18:51 kj the default output file is "a.pbc"
18:52 Infinoid Ok, thanks.  Is the pir script nopasted somewhere?
18:52 kj will be, soon. (preparing now, double checking)
18:56 kj nopaste?
18:56 purl it has been said that nopaste is at http://nopaste.snit.ch/ (ask TonyC for new channels) or http://rafb.net/paste or http://poundperl.pastebin.com/ or http://paste.scsys.co.uk/ or App::Nopaste or tools/dev/nopaste.pl or at http://www.extpaste.com/ or http://paste.scsys.co.uk (for #catalyst, #dbix-class, #moose  and others)
18:56 clunker3 http://pasta.test-smoke.org/ or http://paste.husk.org/ or http://nopaste.snit.ch:8001/ or http://rafb.net/paste or http://poundperl.pastebin.com/ or http://paste.scsys.co.uk/
18:58 dmajnem2_ joined #parrot
18:59 nopaste "kjs" at 193.1.104.5 pasted "PIRC-generated file segfaults" (18 lines) at http://nopaste.snit.ch/15437
18:59 kj Infinoid: Just pasted it.
19:02 ask_ joined #parrot
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19:11 Phurl i finally got phc to compile
19:11 Phurl now i have  a new bug report for pipp :  https://trac.parrot.org/parrot/ticket/235
19:12 Phurl cause the latest version of phc does not work with pipp
19:18 Casan joined #parrot
19:19 * Casan read that as Mooses
19:19 chromatic A prophet is without honor in his #home.
19:25 barney Phurl: I have removed the phc variant from pipp
19:26 barney s/the phc variant/all variants but pct/
19:28 kj Allison: hi, I did some simple stuff for languages/pod just now, but no Makefile is generated, so can't really test here. Does it build correctly now?
19:28 Phurl barney: ok should i update?
19:29 Phurl when was this?
19:30 Infinoid kj: cool, I get a gc segfault from ./pirc -b crashy.pir
19:31 barney Phurl: I removed the variants after the the december release of Parrot
19:31 kj Infinoid: cool? :-P I'm not sure if it's so cool :-/
19:31 kj Infinoid: thanks for looking into it, btw.
19:31 nopaste "Infinoid" at 96.238.213.50 pasted "pirc GC backtrace" (58 lines) at http://nopaste.snit.ch/15440
19:32 barney If there is somebody, Phurl?, that want's to maintain it, i could add the PHC variant again
19:32 Tene barney: how complete is pipp?
19:33 kj Infinoid: b.t.w., if you run ./pirc with "-b -x" options (so, add -x), then it also executes the generated PBC code, so then you don't need to invoke parrot separately
19:33 barney very incomplete, 36 of 1490 tests passing, not counting the extensions
19:33 kj (actually, I'll be changing this so that when you specify -x, it will imply " -b -x")
19:34 Phurl barney: ok, lets say this, how can I invoke a removed feature ;)
19:34 Phurl i did not imagine it
19:34 Infinoid kj: it isn't getting that far... need to track down this gc issue first
19:36 barney Phurl: svn checkout the code for the Parrot 0.8.2 relaease and add 'src/phc' to svn head
19:37 Phurl ok, i got the head
19:37 barney then add the variant handling code to pipp.pir again
19:37 Phurl not the release
19:37 Phurl i am confused.
19:37 Phurl :(
19:38 Phurl look, how is this
19:38 Phurl i will just leave it alone for now
19:38 kj Infinoid: maybe that's triggered by pirc. You could check to just create a PIR file that just prints something, that should work fine.
19:38 Phurl i am going to test the php app on the phc first
19:38 Infinoid kj: it emitted pasm to stdout just fine until I RTFM'd and added -b
19:39 * Infinoid is trying it under valgrind at the moment.
19:39 barney svn co  https://svn.perl.org/parrot/tags/RELEASE_0_8_2/
19:40 kj Infinoid: yes, just printing PASM etc worsk fine. It's only the PBC generation that goes wrong *somewhere*
19:40 Infinoid well, in the case of this crash, it looks like glibc's internal memory allocation structures are being corrupted.
19:40 Infinoid that's not necessarily related to your pbc emission issues...
19:41 barney Phurl: drop me a mail, if you want to play with. The transformation from phc output to PAST is done with XSLT
19:41 barney so XSLT hackers have an advantage
19:41 Phurl yes,
19:41 Phurl i can do all that
19:41 Phurl xml
19:41 Phurl xlst
19:41 Phurl asts
19:42 Phurl and am looking forward to helping
19:42 Phurl but first i am going to test the phc on joomla
19:42 Phurl and see if I can get the entire thing compiled
19:42 Phurl into xml
19:42 Phurl or anything
19:42 Phurl :)
19:42 Phurl the beast
19:43 barney my only reason for using xslt, was that i wanted to learn xslt
19:43 Phurl yes
19:43 chromatic Infinoid, what's pool->object_size and pool->objects_per_alloc in gc_ms_alloc_objects?
19:43 Phurl well, its all good
19:44 Phurl you know in the end. it is all machine code right?
19:44 barney A saner approach would be that phc generates the past and uses an embedded Parrot
19:45 barney In the end it is impossible to distinguish between machine code and magic :=)
19:45 Infinoid chromatic: 112 and 213
19:45 purl 325
19:48 chromatic Seems sane.
19:48 Phurl barney: please explain
19:49 Phurl it uses an embeded parrot to run the transformations?
19:49 Infinoid valgrind reports several errors about PackFile_Segment_pack writing to unallocated memory
19:49 Phurl that makes sense
19:49 NotFound 'src/charset/ascii.h' not found (referenced from 'src/string/charset/ascii.c') at tools/build/headerizer.pl line 505.
19:49 Phurl i was thinking about an embedded rdf engine
19:49 dalek r36060 | kjs++ | trunk/languages/pod/src/parser (2 files):
19:49 dalek : [pod] implement some bits for languages/pod. Can't test, as no Makefile is generated on my box (windows; should it?)
19:49 dalek : Needs more work, but it's a start.
19:49 dalek review: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn​/parrot/revision?rev=36060
19:49 Infinoid err, not unallocated, but already-freed
19:49 Phurl that is used to glue/transform models
19:49 Phurl basically map between two models
19:49 kj Infinoid: mmm, interesting.
19:50 Phurl using rdf model transformations based on logic
19:50 kj Infinoid: when you sick of it, could you post your results to parrot-dev list?
19:50 Phurl that are well defined
19:50 Phurl you can optimize them out most of the time
19:50 Phurl unify the models
19:51 Infinoid hmm, this looks like a possible 64-bit specific issue.
19:51 kj well it's certainly a 32 bit issue as well :-)
19:51 dalek r36061 | allison++ | trunk/config/gen:
19:51 dalek : [pod] Add pod to the list of languages whose makefile is generated during
19:51 dalek : configure.
19:51 dalek review: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn​/parrot/revision?rev=36061
19:51 Infinoid Invalid write of size 8  ...  Address 0x83E5CA0 is 48 bytes inside a block of size 52 alloc'd
19:52 allison kj: I added pod to the configure process for generating language makefiles
19:52 kj allison: great
19:52 kj allison: not sure if i'm on the right track, but I think so :-)
19:53 Coke (tene, exceptions) see if you can fix http://rt.perl.org/rt3//Publ​ic/Bug/Display.html?id=57088 while you're in there. =-)
19:53 nopaste "infinoid" at 96.238.213.50 pasted "valgrind errors from "./pirc -b ../../crashy.pir"" (189 lines) at http://nopaste.snit.ch/15441
19:54 Infinoid oh, he left.
19:54 NotFound allison: 'src/charset/ascii.h' must be 'src/string/charset/ascii.h' ?
19:54 allison NotFound: yes
19:54 Tene Coke: can tcl generate pir yet?
19:54 Coke chromatic: I can deal with the release manager question. we have volunteers.
19:55 Coke (svn move) I've got a note on parrot.org/downloads.
19:55 Coke (have since the first time we tried the move.)
19:57 Coke tene: yet?
19:57 Coke it used to. it doesn't now.
19:57 Tene ah.
19:57 Tene s/yet/again yet/
19:57 barney Phurl: As of Parrot 0.8.2 PHC worked like: .i let phc export XML   ii. generated a nqp-script with xslt iii. run the nqp script and get a PAST data structure iv. execute the PAST
19:57 Coke and I'm not going to add it back in by hand. PCT or nothing.
19:58 Coke I can provide you with a small example to duplicate that problem, if that would help.
19:58 Tene Dunno yet.  It might.  I can try to look at it this week, though.
19:59 barney Phurl: generation PAST within phc would simplify things. Embedding Parrot would remove the need for temporary files
20:00 Phurl ok
20:00 Coke oh, right, someone broke the build.
20:00 Coke src/inter_call.c:1404: warning: nested extern declaration of 'GETATTR_FixedIntegerArray_int_array'
20:00 Phurl barney: sounds good.
20:01 Phurl so we just need a tool to transform into past basically given the xlst
20:01 Phurl so xlst -> parrot
20:01 Phurl and then run that on a parrot machine
20:01 Phurl really, what i am saying is : we can optimize these steps out
20:02 Phurl so that yes, the phc would emit PASTS into parrot
20:02 Phurl i need to look into this all.
20:02 Phurl but if phc can generate c,
20:02 Phurl then parrot could generate c as well at some point?
20:03 * Phurl needs to look at all this good stuff first
20:04 barney Phurl: Yes, one could write a compiler, using the Parrot Compiler Toolkit, that generates C
20:05 barney just like pmichaud did for generating lolcode
20:05 Phurl ok
20:05 Phurl well, I would like to see in the end
20:05 Phurl really
20:05 Phurl all this be integrated into the gcc
20:05 Phurl cause the gcc has tons of optimizing
20:06 Phurl and that the llvm stuff would work with parrot etc
20:06 Phurl ok
20:06 Phurl enough dreaming
20:07 barney yes, compiling the gcc intermediate code to Parrot Bytecode would be a nice project
20:10 dalek r36062 | coke++ | trunk/config/gen/makefiles:
20:10 dalek : document build dependency added in r36053; allow 'make -j' to work again.
20:10 dalek review: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn​/parrot/revision?rev=36062
20:10 dalek r36063 | julianalbo++ | trunk (19 files):
20:10 dalek : [cage] update headerizer info in charset and encoding files and update headerizing
20:10 dalek review: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn​/parrot/revision?rev=36063
20:11 Zaba joined #parrot
20:11 masak ok, I'm stumped. languages/perl6/src/classes/Grammar.pir:65 looks right to me, and sufficiently similar to languages/perl6/src/classes/Code.pir:66 -- how then is it that http://rt.perl.org/rt3/Tic​ket/Display.html?id=62704 still happens? I'd like to fix this, because it's holding a November branch hostage.
20:19 barney Phurl: are you coming to the German Perl Workshop ?
20:22 PerlJam looks like the gits are taking over rakudo  ;)
20:24 Phurl barney: jup
20:24 Phurl i am a frankfurter
20:24 Phurl and frankfurt.pm. dem be my Homies
20:25 Phurl well, better said,
20:25 * moritz will also come
20:25 Phurl i am a naturalized frankfurter
20:25 Phurl great
20:25 Phurl anyone here speaking?
20:25 moritz PerlJam: we haven't heard of jonathan, who might be a blocker for git
20:25 * moritz
20:25 Phurl cool!
20:25 Coke jonathan? he's just this guy, you know?
20:25 moritz Phurl: I have a lightning talk about Perl 6 regex
20:26 Phurl nice i will look you up
20:26 masak I talked to jonathan yesterday, and we talked about git.
20:26 masak but I don't presume to represent his opinion in any way.
20:26 barney I hope to make it, from Munich, but I'm starting a new, freelance project on thursday, so I might be busy
20:26 PerlJam masak: does he seem pro-git in your estimation?
20:26 masak PerlJam: he's not actively for it, no. he seems slightly pro-svn due to his familiarity with it.
20:27 masak he said he's not a big brancher anyway.
20:28 PerlJam I figured he and particle would skew things towards svn.
20:29 masak I tried to tell him that he didn't like branching because he hadn't tested git or equiv, but he remaind understandably skeptical :P
20:29 particle it's like the fate of the universe hangs in the balance. ;)
20:29 moritz I'm sure we could make a good thriller out of it ;-)
20:30 Infinoid I'll wait for the scifi serial version.
20:30 PerlJam particle: if I were in Pm's shoes, I would stick with svn because those people that want to use git can and those people that don't want to use git won't have to suffer (especially when those people are frequent contributers)
20:31 PerlJam But since I don't have to make the decision, I'm voting for git and hoping that pm is slightly insane  :)
20:31 particle pj: i see it the same way. rakudo isn't going to switch to a linux-kernel-style dev model anytime soon
20:31 Infinoid Though rakudo certainly wouldn't mind receiving hundreds of incoming patches per day :)
20:32 PerlJam Infinoid: it would if they were made by millions of monkeys!
20:32 Tene It's probably a good idea to weight preferences by contributions
20:32 Tene I have no objections to jonathan and pmichaud having a much larger vote than I do.
20:34 NotFound Enlarge your vote!
20:35 PerlJam particle: but ... you could switch to git anyway and suffer the pain of changing things all at once  :)
20:35 particle i need to learn git sometime, for sure.
20:35 PerlJam (git is a good pain. It builds character.  It puts hair on your chest.  etc.  ;)
20:36 chromatic I think you're nuts to change version control systems before a major release.
20:36 Infinoid I'm pretty sure I pulled out some hair, during my first couple days of learning git.
20:36 chromatic Of course, I think you're nuts to switch repositories before a major release.
20:37 PerlJam chromatic: come on!  that's just sanity talking.
20:37 chromatic Yeah, you'd think I know something about project management!
20:38 Infinoid My first rule of project management: don't get anywhere near it.
20:38 PerlJam chromatic: but then again ... with the current release schedules, when *aren't* we just before a "major" release?
20:38 chromatic Some majors (1.0) are more major than other majors.
20:38 moritz chromatic: I think pm didn't *want* to switch before parrot 1.0...
20:38 PerlJam chromatic: or would you "burn a release" just for the switch?
20:39 Phurl my shameless plug : http://groups.google.com/gro​up/free-software-conference/ you are all invited to come to the new free software / open source / wikimedia / voip conference we are organising this year! please spread the word
20:39 chromatic I'm just saying that the risk of a major frak-up before a major release is greater, in my mind, than the value for any developer so immature that he flips the bozo bit on Parrot because its Subversion repository has "perl" in the URL at the 1.0 release.
20:39 PerlJam putting parrot where it's going to live "forever" before announcing 1.0 seems like a good idea to me.  I don't know about doing it just before the 1.0 announcement though.
20:40 chromatic 'cuz honestly, I don't care about patches from whiny brats.
20:40 Tene "just before" is rather better than "just after", fwiw
20:40 Zaba joined #parrot
20:40 moritz chromatic++
20:40 PerlJam Tene: indeed.
20:40 Coke chromatic: I am under the impression it is as close to a marketing decision as we've ever made.
20:41 PerlJam woo!  go marketing.
20:41 chromatic I have no problem with marketing, as long as we make marketing decisions for adults.
20:41 moritz oh, speaking of which... is parrot.org safe for being slashdotted?
20:41 Coke chromatic: I'm not sure who was driving the switch. I'm guessing allison.
20:41 moritz because I can very well imagine we'll make it into the /. headlines with a 1.0 release
20:41 PerlJam chromatic: sorry, but you're not marketing *to* adults.
20:41 chromatic "Hi there, I'm interested in Cardinal!  Parrot looks great!  OH YOU HOST ON PERL.ORG SERVERS YOU SUCK I HATE YOU I AM GOING TO GO WATCH THE HILLS AFTERSHOW NOW INSTEAD!"
20:42 chromatic I try to keep wankery *out* of my project management decisions.  Personally.
20:42 Infinoid ...and start a 100 page flame war on a random (unrelated) forum along the way
20:43 chromatic 'cuz if something goes wrong with the switch and the actual contributors we have who actually contribute are unable to make actual contributions, well, that's a bigger problem for me than the pre-adolescent Ruby wanker.
20:44 PerlJam chromatic: it's a bigger problem ... that will be fixed before anything else.  If there's a problem, better for it to happen per-1.0 than post-1.0
20:44 PerlJam s/per/pre/
20:44 Infinoid Okay.  Is the old repository getting the guillotine regardless of whether the new one works, then?
20:44 PerlJam anyway, the die has been cast, has it not?  we're not going to affect anything by babbling about it.
20:44 Infinoid I'd say if something goes wrong, then strategy is reformed but life goes on...
20:45 chromatic Or we could avoid the "It's a bigger problem" problem totally.
20:45 dalek r36064 | julianalbo++ | trunk/t/op:
20:45 dalek : [cage] spourious char in test
20:45 dalek review: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn​/parrot/revision?rev=36064
20:45 chromatic You know, make the 1.0 tarball.
20:45 chromatic Turn off the old repo.
20:45 chromatic Switch to the new repo.
20:45 chromatic Make the release announcement.
20:46 chromatic Take a day off to switch repos, if necessary.
20:46 Infinoid And in the meantime, the ticketing system can accumulate patches, no problem.
20:47 chromatic Exactly.
20:47 Infinoid You know, through this whole discussion, I've been having a really difficult problem understanding why this is as big a deal as everyone seems to be making it...
20:48 Infinoid s/problem/time/
20:48 chromatic I don't want to frak up 1.0.
20:49 Infinoid That makes sense.  But I don't really see how that could happen.
20:49 Infinoid Lets say things go horribly wrong and the new repo is unusable.  So... keep using the old one?
20:49 chromatic In theory, we shouldn't be dealing with the fallout of switching ticketing systems several weeks after the switch either.
20:52 Infinoid I guess what I'm saying is we aren't working without a net.
20:52 Infinoid The old repo is still there, in case everything goes wrong...
20:52 chromatic Sure, and the old ticket system is still there doing things that the new ticket system still doesn't do.
20:52 moritz so is rt
20:53 Infinoid The switch to trac is a Bigger Deal than switching to a new svn server, in my opinion.  This is just a hostname switch
20:53 chromatic Hostname, accounts, permissions, checkouts....
20:54 chromatic smoke testers....
20:54 chromatic Coverity....
20:54 purl coverity is a commercial tool for Automated Error Prevention and Source Code analysis, See,  http://www.coverity.com/main.html or it has been used to measure the quality of the LAMP stack and other major source projects
20:55 chromatic syndication feeds and bots....
20:56 chromatic Hands up everyone who wants me babysitting those instead of fixing bugs?
20:56 chromatic Hands up everyone who wants allison, pmichaud, jonathan, NotFound, etc... babysitting those instead of...?
20:56 Infinoid *chirping crickets*
20:56 chromatic That's what I mean about risk.
20:57 Infinoid Hmm, ok.  Thanks for the list of things to fix, by the way.
20:58 chromatic You're welcome.
20:58 jonathan hi folks, back
20:58 chromatic I wish we'd had this discussion earlier instead of hearing "The repository shall move!" fiat speech.
20:58 jonathan re git - I'm only going to whine lots if we move to it *and* it gets in my way lots. :-)
20:59 jonathan I think there's enough people here who do use it, that if I need help I can get it.
20:59 NotFound Regarding marketing: if you have fear that some people can think we are too perl oriented you just need to show them some of the pirric examples X-)
20:59 jonathan So I'm certainly not against. But my lazy/liking familiarity/we have it now and it works-ish side doesn't mind svn at all either.
21:00 Tene NotFound: where are pirric examples in the repo?
21:00 Infinoid NotFound: "And look at the nifty things we've written in lolcode!"  "And here's some great befunge stuff!"  "Wait, where did he go?"
21:00 NotFound Tene: t/examples/pir/*.bas
21:01 NotFound Ops, forget the t/
21:05 dalek r36065 | julianalbo++ | trunk (6 files):
21:05 dalek : Implement Parrot_str_repeat and replace usages of string_repeat, TT # 210
21:05 dalek review: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn​/parrot/revision?rev=36065
21:22 chromatic Look out, jonathan -- masak is trolling you on use.perl.org!
21:22 masak :)
21:25 kj joined #parrot
21:34 Coke chromatic: http://rt.perl.org/rt3/Tic​ket/Display.html?id=57088 now has a pir-only version of the error.
21:35 chromatic Excellent.
21:52 dalek r36066 | fperrad++ | trunk/tools/dev:
21:52 dalek : [tools] add the generation of 'Configure.pl'
21:52 dalek : for new language
21:52 dalek review: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn​/parrot/revision?rev=36066
21:58 kj does anybody know whether the :vtable-implies-self issue has been resolved?
22:09 NotFound Self-resolution? X-)
22:09 kj it seems to be fixed..
22:10 dalek r36067 | kjs++ | trunk/compilers/pirc/src:
22:10 dalek : [pirc] fix adding of "self" parameter with :vtable and :method flags. If either of these has been set, then don't add "self" again.
22:10 dalek review: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn​/parrot/revision?rev=36067
22:11 Coke kj: it's not fixed.
22:11 kj the example in the ticket works
22:11 Coke show me?
22:11 Coke er, which ticket?
22:11 Coke appears broken for me in Revision: 36059
22:11 kj the RT ticket, 47674
22:12 kj nopaste?
22:12 purl i heard nopaste was at http://nopaste.snit.ch/ (ask TonyC for new channels) or http://rafb.net/paste or http://poundperl.pastebin.com/ or http://paste.scsys.co.uk/ or App::Nopaste or tools/dev/nopaste.pl or at http://www.extpaste.com/ or http://paste.scsys.co.uk (for #catalyst, #dbix-class, #moose  and others)
22:12 clunker3 http://pasta.test-smoke.org/ or http://paste.husk.org/ or http://nopaste.snit.ch:8001/ or http://rafb.net/paste or http://poundperl.pastebin.com/ or http://paste.scsys.co.uk/
22:12 Coke ah, slightly different version of the bug.
22:13 kj if only my browser would start up I'd show
22:13 kj ah there it is. 1 min.
22:13 Coke If you don't reference self in the vtable def, the sub definition is created with the wrong # of params.
22:13 Coke if you /do/ reference self, it generally works.
22:13 kj oooooooh
22:13 Coke so if I override does with a simple ".return(0)", and then invoke does, it will fail.
22:14 Coke but if I have .return(0)\n$P0 = self, that works. (even though I never actually use self.)
22:15 kj eh, i have a sub :vtable, that only returns (42)
22:15 kj and that works
22:15 Coke for which vtable?
22:15 Coke does?
22:16 nopaste "kjs" at 193.120.116.183 pasted ":vtable + self seems to work..." (31 lines) at http://nopaste.snit.ch/15443
22:16 kj get_integer
22:16 purl get_integer is Perl context only
22:16 kj purl, forget get_integer
22:16 purl kj: I forgot get_integer
22:16 dalek r36068 | fperrad++ | trunk/tools/dev:
22:16 dalek : [tools] update the Makefile template
22:16 dalek : for language
22:16 dalek review: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn​/parrot/revision?rev=36068
22:19 nopaste "coke" at 72.228.52.192 pasted "this fails." (16 lines) at http://nopaste.snit.ch/15444
22:20 Coke a sub with no params doesn't trigger argument handling.
22:20 jonathan Coke: That sounds...broken. :-|
22:20 Coke jonathan: yes. it's a fairly simple fix, as I recall; just need to have :vtable automagically setup for self, not only when self is referenced.
22:21 Coke (like :method already does.)
22:21 Coke if you add $P0 = self after the return there, it works.
22:22 Coke (huh. although it prints 1 instead of 42. =-)
22:22 Coke something must be booleanizing the retval.
22:22 PerlJam jonathan: quick!  svn or git?  :-)
22:22 moritz I'd say "yes" to that question ;-)
22:23 PerlJam well, his preference still isn't listed in the spreadsheet, so I thought I'd ask
22:24 jonathan PerlJam: A *lot* of people seem to like git. I don't think my laziness is a good reason for not switching.
22:24 PerlJam jonathan: you should still register a preference.
22:25 Theory joined #parrot
22:25 lathos I think it's probably time I had a good reason to learn git.
22:25 lathos Currently I don't use it, and therefore it must suck.
22:25 jonathan PerlJam: At this point, I don't have much of a preference either way.
22:26 jonathan Enough people seem to rate it, that I'm willing to go with it. And enough people here know it, that I'm happy I can get hints as needed.
22:26 jonathan And I'm satisfied we can make a read-only svn frontend if need be, to keep folks happy who just want to quickly grab a checkout.
22:27 jonathan And don't have git yet (since svn install base is wider).
22:28 PerlJam if you're ambivalent then pm has to weight Coke and particle (and possibly himself) against everyone else.  If a change is to be made the odds are looking better for git than I thought  :)
22:31 PerlJam lathos: when ever you do get around to using it, have a look at github and imagine that integrated with CPAN somehow (imagine it in a good way if you can muster it :-)
22:32 kj I might have a solution for the :vtable + self problem
22:32 PerlJam (not in a mandated, you must use this sort of way, but in a this is an option that opens up possibilities for sharing)
22:34 particle jonathan: sub with no params was a common idiom in parrot in the old days
22:34 particle there were so many examples of it in the repo, it wasn't turned on, so parrot would continue to build, run, and pass tests
22:34 particle coke just reminded me of that sad fact
22:35 Coke there's a ticket to turn it on.
22:35 Coke I got pretty close at one point.
22:35 kj Coke: I'm adding it now. Slow computer. Slow connection. :-(
22:36 Coke which? a fix for my bug, or to always enable arg processing?
22:36 kj no, for the 'does' vtable example you gave me
22:36 Coke excellent.
22:36 kj to always enable arg processing is a different issue
22:36 kj I'd rather not go there at this point in the evening
22:36 Coke that will let me rip out a single line of code from partcl. =-)
22:37 kj not sure if it works properly, please double check
22:37 Coke is it committed?
22:37 kj no, I send it as a patch
22:38 kj i'm updating the ticket in trac now
22:39 kj done.
22:39 Limbic_Region joined #parrot
22:39 Coke rant: trac turns your nice patch into something completely unappliable when I click on it.
22:40 chromatic Yes, but it doesn't have perl.org in the URL!  WIN!
22:40 kj someone with a fast pc, please run make test after applying that patch :-) I'd rather do stuff instead of staring at a scrolling screen
22:40 Coke (and if I want it applyable, I have to click in chunks.)
22:40 kj really?
22:40 purl well, really is it bad?
22:40 Coke kj: would I lie to you? (aaaaaa yah.)
22:41 kj hahah. I really should get internet THROUGH A CABLE
22:41 Coke ah. way down on the bottom. "download in original"
22:41 Coke ... but I didn't want to download it. i wanted to F(*#$& VIEW IT.
22:41 NotFound Coke: doesn't has a link at the bottom...
22:41 NotFound Yes
22:41 chromatic Coke prefers fruit on the bottom.
22:41 Coke NotFound: that link should be at the top.
22:41 NotFound Coke: buy a bigger screen :P
22:42 Coke chromatic: so, yah, I don't pretend to understand the switch here.
22:42 Coke parrot.org over parrotcode.org I get, as it made it easier for people to contribute.
22:42 chromatic That's because no one explained it.
22:42 Coke it == the other switches?
22:42 chromatic Yes.
22:42 Coke mm.
22:43 kj I wonder why the patch has all sorts of extra semicolons
22:43 kj must be my bison
22:43 Coke moo.
22:43 Coke ... ew. now I am reminded of working on MOO.
22:44 kj what's MOO?
22:44 * purl cranks up the chainsaw.
22:44 Coke kj: e.g. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LambdaMOO
22:44 chromatic Cold Fusion for Cows
22:44 particle kj: i've got 22mb/s up 2.6mb/s down on my cable now :)
22:44 particle strike that, reverse it.
22:44 chromatic Wow, git pull is slow.
22:44 Coke there's a project for someone who is bored. port MOO to parrot.
22:45 Coke chromatic: are you gitpulling all of the repo?
22:45 PerlJam Coke: dude, bored people should work on rakudo  :)
22:45 Coke fair enough,.
22:45 kj particle: aah yeeezzz. i'm on a 3.6Mbit "3G" connection. Too bad it switches back to HSPDA all the time
22:45 chromatic I'm trying to update my bleadperl checkout.
22:45 Coke btw, I have two different people interested in contributing to APL.
22:46 chromatic I know Adin Falkoff; want me to invite him?
22:46 Coke (people who actually are coming at it from an APL background)
22:46 kj also bored people?
22:46 Tene Coke: great!
22:46 * Coke should fork APL off to googlecode.
22:46 particle coke: that's two more that the people interested in contributing to tcl!
22:47 Coke particle: you are lucky you're far enough away that I cannot rochambeau you.
22:47 particle what would be the apl symbol to run foreign code?
22:47 kj APL is more popular than Tcl?
22:47 Infinoid I just did a "git pull" to pull in the last week of parrot changes; it took about 10 seconds.
22:47 Infinoid Is bleadperl really that volatile, or is the server just slow?
22:47 chromatic Receiving objects:  43% (105784/244821), 45.49 MiB | 89 KiB/s
22:48 Infinoid shiny.  big *and* slow.
22:48 Coke chromatic: if one were interested in contributing to perl5, is there a shiny web page?
22:48 chromatic http://perldoc.perl.org/perlhack.html perhaps; haven't tried it.
22:48 kj Coke: are you testing the patch I sent?
22:49 Coke kj: no. I cannot easily apply it here.
22:49 Coke will do so later this evening.
22:49 kj oh ok
22:49 kj okido
22:49 Coke anyone care to opine on a clever name for "APL on parrot" ?
22:49 NotFound Apalot
22:49 PerlJam heh
22:50 NotFound A-palot in pseudo-chinese X-)
22:50 PerlJam I was thinking something like apple-rot myself
22:50 chromatic Dirty Bird
22:50 lathos Urgh. Rakudo is doing something weird. My loop variable is being rewritten half way through the loop.
22:50 Infinoid prap
22:51 dalek r36069 | fperrad++ | trunk/lib/Parrot/Docs/Section:
22:51 dalek : [docs] add language POD
22:51 dalek review: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn​/parrot/revision?rev=36069
22:51 PerlJam lathos: show the code
22:51 Infinoid hmm.  I'm thinking about parrots and apples, but not much is coming to mind.
22:52 NotFound iAPL X-)
22:52 kj chromatic: can you spare a minute to test that :vtable/self patch?
22:52 Infinoid hah, iParrot
22:52 chromatic Oh, now it has to RESOLVE the deltas.
22:52 chromatic Yes, this is much simpler and faster.
22:52 moritz HAIparrot? ;-)
22:52 Coke chromatic: I wonder sometimes what you'd do if life were sane.
22:52 chromatic kj, I can in a few minutes.
22:53 NotFound I dream with inventing a thing called 'Diot' and expect Apple do his version
22:53 lathos PerlJam: I think it's just the usual assignment versus copy oddness.
22:53 kj chromatic: great. don't want to interrupt too much here
22:53 Coke chromatic: ah well, :
22:53 Coke "Because you cannot use the Perforce client, you cannot easily generate diffs against the repository"
22:53 chromatic Coke, it's out of date though.
22:53 chromatic You can use git now.
22:53 NotFound BQM
22:53 chromatic If you have a couple of hours to check out the sources.
22:53 chromatic (My repo's about a month out of date.)
22:54 lathos If I say "for (0.. $l-1) -> $char { $savechar = $char; wibble($char); ... }" then $savechar goes back to 0. If I say "$savechar = $char + 0" it's fine.
22:54 Coke if I do "git clone git://perl5.git.perl.org/perl.git", where does it put the clone?
22:54 Tene ./perl
22:55 PerlJam Coke: in a dir called perl
22:55 Coke danke.
22:55 kj lathos: can you nopaste the generated PIR for that?
22:55 Tene Coke: you can add the desired destination as an additional argument
22:56 lathos kj: This is a fairly big program.
22:56 NotFound http://www.traveljournals.net/explore​/philippines/map/m3324246/apalot.html
22:56 shorten NotFound's url is at http://xrl.us/bedzff
22:56 lathos But hey, why not try it yourself? It's in the repo.
22:57 kj lathos: what program is it?
22:57 chromatic ARGH, and the merge failed, due to a file I have not even touched.
22:57 dalek r36070 | simon++ | branches/strings/pseudocode (2 files):
22:57 dalek : First stab at char indexing of NFG strings.
22:57 dalek review: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn​/parrot/revision?rev=36070
22:57 lathos kj: strings/pseudocode/ParrotString.pm
22:57 kj oh right, that's in the branch...
22:57 lathos Yes.
22:58 lathos You can just check out the pseudocode dir.
22:58 kj good point
22:58 lathos vn co http://svn.perl.org/parrot/​branches/strings/pseudocode string-prototype
22:58 lathos ^s
22:58 kj besides a slow pc and a slow connection, I'm also low on disk space :-P
22:58 lathos Well, I've hacked around it, so it's no big deal to me. You just sounded interested. :)
22:59 kj well, it just seems to me that there's somethign wrong with the generated PIR
23:00 Infinoid chromatic: "couple of hours"?  I just did a clone of git://perl5.git.perl.org/perl.git, took 3 minutes 24 seconds.
23:00 chromatic Apparently I'm not using the same git.  I'm using something called git-haunted-will-eat-your-soul, which is almost entirely unlike the Second Coming of Obama git that the rest of you use.
23:01 Infinoid (I'm not trying to be argumentative, I'm just not seeing the same thing you are.)
23:01 chromatic Yeah, that's pretty much my experience with git.
23:02 chromatic Sort of like watching Star Wars for the first time as an adult.
23:02 Infinoid heh, that's accurate.
23:02 dalek r36071 | particle++ | trunk/src:
23:02 dalek : [core] remove commented out code, thanks for noticing nick!
23:02 dalek review: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn​/parrot/revision?rev=36071
23:03 Infinoid My first few experiences with git were along the lines of "What the hell does that big ugly command mean?" and "Why would anyone be crazy enough to use this stuff?"
23:03 Infinoid I warmed up to it, but it took a while.
23:03 dalek r36072 | particle++ | trunk/config/init/hints:
23:03 dalek : [config] add hint for icc, to induce correct floating point behavior instead of broken default behavior
23:03 dalek review: http://www.parrotvm.org/svn​/parrot/revision?rev=36072
23:04 chromatic My experience is "Why isn't it checking out?"
23:05 chromatic "Why isn't it merging?"
23:05 chromatic "Why are there conflicts in files I haven't edited?"
23:05 chromatic "Why won't it update?"
23:06 Tene I seem to have yet a third version of git.
23:07 Infinoid What's the conflict?  (Wondering if maybe they added a file that used to be autogenerated, or something.)
23:07 solarion joined #parrot
23:08 Tene If you're getting conflicts when just trying to update, without changing anything, you're doing something very wrong.
23:08 chromatic Yeah, apparently.
23:08 particle this all just worked when perl used p4
23:08 particle :P
23:09 chromatic I cloned the repository, made some changes, and committed them.  Then I tried to update my clone.
23:09 chromatic KAPOW
23:09 PerlJam chromatic: what version of git?
23:09 Tene 'git fetch; git rebase origin', right?
23:09 chromatic 1.5.6.3
23:09 PerlJam just checking.
23:09 chromatic I did a git pull first.
23:09 PerlJam older gits did have some weirdness
23:10 Tene "git pull" is "git fetch; git merge origin"
23:10 Tene That's not what you want.
23:10 chromatic Apparently.
23:10 Infinoid (it's fine for local bounce trees, but often bad for development trees.)
23:10 NotFound git do what i want
23:10 Infinoid infinoid@chirp perl % git do what I mean
23:10 Infinoid git: 'do' is not a git-command. See 'git --help'.
23:11 Infinoid Someone should implement that.
23:11 NotFound Is as silly as purl
23:11 NotFound git make me a sandwich
23:11 chromatic sudo !!
23:12 Infinoid I'm guessing I'm the only one here who uses stgit?
23:12 NotFound Star Trek git?
23:13 Infinoid stacked git.  sorta like quilt
23:13 moritz Infinoid: wasn't stgit's development stalled?
23:14 Infinoid I don't have any idea.  my version is dated 09 Jun 2008
23:15 moritz then it was probably revived ;-)
23:15 particle anyone else getting 403 from hiveminder.com?
23:16 chromatic Okay, so now I have a patch in a git checkout that's completely frakked.
23:16 lathos Hiveminder is working for me albeit very slowly.
23:17 Tene chromatic: are you complaining or asking for help?
23:17 chromatic Depends.  Is it possible to recover?
23:17 Tene yes
23:17 Infinoid Should be.
23:17 Infinoid git reset --hard origin
23:18 Tene will lose your commit.  you could get it from 'git reflog', though.
23:18 Infinoid ah, make that origin/HEAD
23:18 particle ping hiveminder.com
23:19 Tene you can always run 'git reflog' to go back through every state your repository has been in.
23:19 purl 10 packets transmitted, 0 received, +9 errors, 100% packet loss, time 9046ms
23:19 Tene Then 'git checkout 123abc456...' to return to that state.
23:19 kj particle: ping hiveminder.com is fine here
23:19 particle dns?
23:19 purl well, dns is the way to hack the Internet
23:19 lathos Same here.
23:19 kj Reply from 208.70.245.184: bytes=32 time=517ms TTL=40
23:19 kj Reply from 208.70.245.184: bytes=32 time=504ms TTL=40
23:19 kj Reply from 208.70.245.184: bytes=32 time=544ms TTL=40
23:19 kj Reply from 208.70.245.184: bytes=32 time=1201ms TTL=40
23:19 purl 10 packets transmitted, 0 received, +9 errors, 100% packet loss, time 8998ms
23:19 particle ok, well purl and i are hosed
23:20 Infinoid it's dropping packets here... 30% packet loss
23:27 kj Infinoid: did you find anything when running the buggy pbc file?
23:28 kj eh, 'crashy' i think it was called
23:29 Infinoid kj: yeah.  if I remember correctly, PackFile_Segment_pack was writing to memory that had already been free()d.  There was a nopaste, one moment and I'll dig it up.
23:31 Infinoid kj: Ok, that wasn't quite it.  But a couple of buffer handling problems in general... http://nopaste.snit.ch/15441
23:32 TiMBuS joined #parrot
23:33 chromatic kj, I'm rebuilding and testing with self.patch right now.
23:33 Infinoid I was going to play around with pirc some more this evening.
23:33 japhb joined #parrot
23:33 kj chromatic: great, thanks. There's some tests failing, but they should, I guess, given that that's what the patch does
23:33 kj Infinoid: thanks, this is useful, I think
23:34 kj (these reports)
23:34 Infinoid kj: if nothing else, it looks like create_codesegment() isn't allocating buffers big enough
23:35 Infinoid But this is all happening *way* before the problems you were describing.  This is crashing while creating the pbc file, I haven't even gotten to the point of running parrot on it yet.
23:35 kj well, that's easy to test :-) I'll multiply it a few times
23:35 Infinoid I still suspect a 64-bitness issue.
23:35 kj but i'm on win32
23:35 kj and on linux, 32 bit it fails too
23:36 Infinoid right, and you're seeing a different crash than I am.  Right?
23:36 kj well on windows I don't seee anything, except that the expected outcome doesn't come
23:36 kj and on linux it's memory error
23:36 Infinoid that's when generating the .pbc, or running it?
23:36 kj generating is fine
23:36 Infinoid Not here.
23:37 kj running is not ok
23:37 kj oh, really
23:37 kj oh ok, that's an issue too then
23:37 kj :-(
23:37 Infinoid Yeah.  I'm just not sure it's the same one :(
23:38 kj well at least just emitting pasm works :-)
23:38 kj so the core is ok
23:39 Infinoid I'll see what I can do about fixing the issue I'm seeing, and hopefully that'll get me up to the point where you're seeing parrot crash.
23:39 kj ok, thanks a bunch
23:41 Infinoid heh, nice comment.  /* allocate enough space. XXX I *think* bytes is /always/ codesize * 4. */
23:41 kj well, it's true :-)
23:42 kj but multiplying that by 10 didn't help
23:42 Infinoid I'm not so sure.  Shouldn't it just be sizeof(opcode_t)?
23:42 kj good point. I was just copying stuff from IMCC
23:42 kj that certainly smells like a 64 bit issue!
23:43 Infinoid yeah, it is.  opcode_t is Parrot_Opcode which is long, which is 8 bytes for me
23:43 kj if sizeof (opcode_t) is 8 bytes, and only 4 is allocated...
23:43 Infinoid It might not help your issue, but it might help mine.
23:43 * Infinoid tries it
23:43 kj feel free to commit
23:44 kj codesize*4 calculates the size in btes
23:44 kj bytes
23:44 Infinoid yeah, I replaced 4 with sizeof(opcode_t).  Rebuilding now
23:44 Infinoid As a nice benefit, I think I can get rid of your XXX
23:44 kj and, to give some background info, codesize is the number of opcode_t's needed in the codesegment
23:45 kj 1 for each op, and 1 for each operand
23:45 kj Infinoid++
23:46 Infinoid Makes sense.  I ran into a weird issue while writing the Packfile PMCs, where PDD13 didn't actually mention what format the ops were in.
23:46 Infinoid I had to do a bit of searching to find opcode_t.
23:47 kj ah yes. everything's an integer, basically
23:47 kj in the codesegment
23:48 chromatic kj, only two tests failed for me.  t/pmc/namespace.t #62 and t/pmc/parrotobject.t #9-11.
23:48 kj yes, for me too
23:48 kj and after inspecting them, I wasn't surprised
23:48 kj are you?
23:49 chromatic Not at all.
23:49 kj heh :-)
23:50 kj that's sounds promising then
23:50 Tene there are tests passing with pirc?
23:51 chromatic Tene, this is the vtable-implies-self patch.
23:52 Tene ... reading comprehension fail
23:52 Infinoid kj: Ok, I've got a patch to fix the buffer allocation thing.  I'll commit once I get a couple of other things sorted out.
23:53 Infinoid (and I verified it works; now it generates pbc and I'm able to see your parrot crash as well)
23:53 kj ah nice!
23:53 kj pretty good, 1 fix to make it 64bit compatible :-)
23:54 Infinoid Yeah, better than average :)
23:56 s1n TiMBuS: what do you mean "putting my ops inside a subroutine block", where else will it go?
23:56 TiMBuS oh hey
23:56 purl que tal, TiMBuS.
23:57 kj chromatic: you think it's ok to commit that vtable thingy?
23:57 TiMBuS well i meant, if you were just doing the op outside any block, the op would be unexpected by the imcc compiler
23:57 chromatic kj, if we can make those tests pass.
23:57 kj sure, eh. shall i send a patch for those?
23:58 kj then if they pass for you as well, then should be fine, no?
23:58 chromatic If they pass for you, I trust them.
23:59 chromatic There should be nothing platform-specific about the fixes.

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