Camelia, the Perl 6 bug

IRC log for #parrot, 2009-03-17

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:01 gryphon joined #parrot
00:08 allison chromatic: aye, I'd lean more toward the unification, with PIR ops as a kind of lightweight sub
00:08 allison chromatic: could go either way on continuation points
00:08 AndyA joined #parrot
00:08 chromatic Could these PIR ops call other PIR ops?
00:09 chromatic Maybe we shouldn't call them PIR ops.
00:09 chromatic L2 ops?
00:10 allison chromatic: it seems they should be fully substitutable for C ops, if they're to be useful
00:12 chromatic Absolutely.  That's how I want to do away with C ops.
00:12 chromatic ... or at least trim the number of C ops down to 128 or fewer.
00:13 allison chromatic: pretty radical :)
00:13 chromatic Not really.  I think we could manage that; look at the ops in GNU Lightning, for example.
00:14 allison chromatic: ultimately a question of performance, I think
00:14 allison chromatic: in theory we have C ops because they're fast, but benchmarking may prove otherwise
00:14 chromatic In theory VTABLE entries are fast.
00:15 allison chromatic: they're faster than MMD (as an example of removing function pointers)
00:16 chromatic They're not fast when you have an op that calls them.
00:16 chromatic They slow down the JIT tremendously.
00:16 allison well, they can't be JIT'd
00:17 chromatic Exactly.
00:17 chromatic When you have to use them for attribute access (which, mostly, we have to do), they gut your JIT potential.
00:18 allison function pointer are one of the fundamental ways of convincing a static language like C to act dynamically
00:20 chromatic Sure, but there's no reason we have to use function pointers when we have a system that can access raw memory directly and perform its own control flow.
00:21 allison except that the system has no way of statically accessing the same functions
00:21 chromatic Why would it need to?
00:22 allison it has to call the vtable functions somehow, either as a direct function call, or inlined, or through a function pointer
00:37 chromatic I had figured we'd define PMCs in terms of the L1 ops in the same way we define L2 ops in terms of L1 ops.
00:41 eternaleye joined #parrot
00:47 dalek parrot: r37507 | allison++ | trunk (3 files):
00:47 dalek parrot: [doc] Removing old CSS and logo for generated HTML (no longer used).
00:47 dalek parrot: review: https://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/37507/
00:47 allison mmmm... possible. Of course, the problem with radically restricting your op set and requiring all your interpreter primitives to be build in that opset at the same time, is that it's devilishly difficult to predict exactly what people are going to want to do with the system, so difficult to pick what your ops should be.
00:51 chromatic If we can reimplent our current PMCs in terms of the ops, we'll have chosen the right set.
00:51 chromatic If we can't, we didn't.
00:51 chromatic L1 ops, that is.
00:52 allison our current PMCs are actually pretty bare-bones
00:52 chromatic Or even L1 and L2 ops.
00:53 allison they only seem complex because the definition language is obtuse and verbose
00:53 chromatic There's a bootstrapping order to consider though.
00:53 allison but if L2 ops depend on L1 ops, they're still limited to the same basic functionality
00:54 allison low-level extensions have to enter the system somewhere along the line
00:54 chromatic What kind of low-level extensions do you mean?
00:54 allison some way to have more than 128 basic building-blocks of functionality
00:55 allison (in current terms, that would be dynops, but we're talking about a hypothetical system)
00:57 allison it seems like there's a fundamental tension in this hypothetical system between wanting everything to be an op (and therefore JIT-able) and wanting a small set of ops
00:57 chromatic If everything gets built up from a small set of ops, you can JIT just that set of ops.
00:57 allison interesting to see how that tension would play out, which would dominate
00:57 chromatic I don't care how many ops Rakudo ends up using, for example.
00:58 chromatic I only care that we can build *everything* Rakudo needs in terms of 64 or 128 or 256 ops.
00:59 allison more like JIT blocks than ops
00:59 chromatic Sure, if you want to think of them that way.
00:59 allison they'd have to have really primitive functionality
00:59 allison (near-turing levels of functionality)
01:00 chromatic A usable system would have to be much more than Turing-level.
01:01 chromatic It doesn't require much more than store, retrieve, compare, and jump though.
01:01 chromatic The details of which direct object or objects on which to act and their locations make it more complex.
01:18 pmichaud hello, all
01:18 allison ah, pmichaud, quick question
01:18 pmichaud yes, I don't know how long I'll be here :-)
01:19 pmichaud we'll be heading back over to space mountain in the next hour or so :-P
01:19 allison your deprecated items were listed as July 2009
01:19 allison did that mean "changed in the 1.4 release"?
01:19 pmichaud only the $(...) should be listed as July 2009.
01:19 allison or "changed after the 1.4 release"?
01:19 pmichaud after the 1.4 release.
01:20 pmichaud I expect $(...) to continue to be available in the 1.4 release.  After the 1.4 release it'll be gone.
01:20 * jonathan waves at pmichaud
01:20 jonathan Space Mountain at Disney World in California?
01:20 pmichaud (It's just too commonly used to deprecate entirely; and I'm not completely sure we've settled on its replacement.)
01:20 pmichaud Yes, Space Mountain at Disney in Calif :-)
01:20 jonathan Fun ride! :-)
01:21 pmichaud kids wanted to do some swimming so we took a couple hours' break from the parks
01:21 allison okay, was reviewing DEPRECATED.pod, and not clear on that one, but Coke updated to "eligible in 1.5", so will leave it that way
01:21 pmichaud that's fine with me.
01:21 allison thanks!
01:21 jonathan pmichaud: Going to hack on Rakudo tomorrow.
01:21 pmichaud I still prefer dates to version numbers, but won't complain if anyone does the conversions for me :-)
01:22 pmichaud jonathan: sounds good -- need anything from me at the moment?
01:22 Theory joined #parrot
01:22 jonathan pmichaud: Nope, I can find plenty to keep me entertained.
01:22 pmichaud okay, good.
01:22 jonathan pmichaud: Enjoy the break.
01:23 pmichaud I am enjoying it very much... although it's not really too much of a break.  This is the first opportunity I've really had to "relax" in at least a couple of weeks.
01:24 pmichaud (reading scrollback) fwiw, I suspect that rakudo uses a very small number of ops
01:24 pmichaud and many of the ops it uses it probably does so only once (e.g., math ops)
01:24 allison uses them in order to define the HLL builtins?
01:25 pmichaud yes.
01:25 jonathan pmichaud: If you like ice cream - and if you don't know already - at The Beach Club resort they have a place serving an ice cream called The Kitchen Sink. It's...huge.
01:25 jonathan (Like, family sized. :-)
01:25 pmichaud jonathan: wasn't aware of that -- we may make it by there.  Ice cream is a big favorite in this family.  :-)
01:26 jonathan http://www.jnthn.net/cgi-b​in/photo_large.pl?id=1064
01:26 jonathan (No, I didn't eat it all myself)
01:27 pmichaud do we have an eta for the release?  Anything that is really needed from me at this point?
01:27 allison jonathan: now *that's* a sundae
01:29 jonathan allison: Isn't it just. :-)
01:29 allison pmichaud: I'm planning to generated the tarball early AM
01:29 allison pmichaud: pass it around for platform testing
01:29 Tene pmichaud: anything you want me to do before release?
01:29 allison pmichaud: so hopefully release will be soon after #parrotsketch (which is a good time to check for any last blockers)
01:30 Whiteknight when is the release being...released? I can do AM testing
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01:31 pmichaud Tene: We need some brief documentation in pdd26 (ast) about PAST::Control, I think.
01:31 Tene Okay.
01:31 pmichaud other than that I think we're good.  I don't have a language tutorial in place but since that's changed slightly I'd have to relearn some of it anyway.
01:32 rurban_ joined #parrot
01:32 Tene pmichaud: I've got a video. ;)
01:32 pmichaud (backscroll about pynie)  -- pynie in googlecode already has Rakudo's "download parrot, build in subdir" functionality.
01:34 allison pmichaud: I wonder if the parrotblog squaak tutorial could be converted to repository docs (probably would have to be updated). maybe next month
01:34 allison pmichaud: (pynie) excellent
01:34 pmichaud yes, I still plan to do one -- it just won't be in the 1.0 release.
01:34 pmichaud But I definitely need it for NPW/Oslo
01:35 pmichaud afk for a bit -- switching location (away from swimming pool)
01:36 sjn pmichaud: do you have an announcement text for Rakudo #15 yet?
01:36 Tene I have a scheme implementation in something like 7 commits.
01:37 Tene it's what I use for my PCT presentation.
01:37 sjn pmichaud: we're preparing a press release, and would like a heads-up on what you're writing :)
01:37 pmichaud sjn:  my announcement will be modeled after the #14 release
01:37 pmichaud (announcement)
01:38 pmichaud if there's any specific text you'd like to see, I can do that.
01:39 sjn ok, we just about assumed that already
01:39 chromatic We need to skip the examples/shootout/revcomp.pir test in t/examples/shootout.t however.
01:39 pmichaud I can draft an announcement later tonight and send it by you.
01:39 sjn pmichaud: sweet!
01:40 sjn I'll forward it to krunen :)
01:41 pmichaud I don't have an exact time for the Rakudo release yet.  It could occur as early as 00:00 UTC on March 19th or as late as 07:00 UTC on March 20th :-)
01:41 pmichaud it depends on schedule around here :-)
01:41 pmichaud (I figure that whole range counts as March 19th _somewhere_.
01:43 jonathan Gee, you mean I've got a time window that big in which I'm not allowed to break Rakudo? ;-)
01:43 pmichaud the reason I'm going as early as 00:00 UTC on March 19th is so that I can reduce the amount of time.
01:43 jonathan :-)
01:43 pmichaud As I figure it, Rakudo needs to not break (or rely on parrot changes) between the time that parrot is released and rakudo gets its release out the door.
01:44 jonathan Aye.
01:44 pmichaud so I'm looking at releasing late Wednesday night instead of Thursday
01:44 jonathan I got my Parrot changes I needed for eval to see lexicals before 1.0 anyway. :-)
01:44 pmichaud correct.  :-)
01:44 pmichaud dinner here
01:44 purl dinner here is great.
01:45 jonathan Hope dinner is as good for you as for purl, then. :-)
01:45 kid51 joined #parrot
01:47 pmichaud chinese here :-)
01:51 jonathan Enjoy
01:51 * jonathan -> sleep
01:51 dalek parrot: r37508 | chromatic++ | trunk/t/examples/shootout.t:
01:51 dalek parrot: [t] Skipped the shootout test of examples/shootout/revcomp.pir, as x86 Linux
01:51 dalek parrot: now shows the same STRING segfault as Darwin, reported in TT #445.
01:51 dalek parrot: review: https://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/37508/
02:15 dalek parrot: r37509 | jkeenan++ | trunk/t/pmc/os.t:
02:15 dalek parrot: Applying patches submitted by Andy Dougherty in
02:15 dalek parrot: https://trac.parrot.org/parrot/ticket/457 (invalid stat and lstat tests) and
02:15 dalek parrot: https://trac.parrot.org/parrot/ticket/465 (Ensure hard link test
02:15 dalek parrot: uses a real file, not a symlink).
02:16 dalek parrot: review: https://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/37509/
02:16 pmichaud afk # space mountain, here I come.
02:29 Andy joined #parrot
02:34 * Coke ponders a poker BOF at yapc.
02:39 dalek tracwiki: v7 | dukeleto++ | ListOfPlatforms
02:39 dalek tracwiki: https://trac.parrot.org/parrot/wiki/Lis​tOfPlatforms?version=7&action=diff
02:39 shorten dalek's url is at http://xrl.us/bekiwn
02:39 dalek tracwiki: v8 | dukeleto++ | ListOfPlatforms
02:39 dalek tracwiki: https://trac.parrot.org/parrot/wiki/Lis​tOfPlatforms?version=8&action=diff
02:39 shorten dalek's url is at http://xrl.us/bekiwp
02:43 dalek tracwiki: v9 | dukeleto++ | ListOfPlatforms
02:43 dalek tracwiki: https://trac.parrot.org/parrot/wiki/Lis​tOfPlatforms?version=9&action=diff
02:43 shorten dalek's url is at http://xrl.us/bekiw9
02:47 TiMBuS joined #parrot
02:51 * Util like the idea of a YAPC poker BOF. Perhaps around the time/place of the Beer BOF. :)
02:58 TiMBuS joined #parrot
02:59 Andy What should my MANPATH be on my Mac/
02:59 Andy oh wait, nm
03:07 dalek tracwiki: v18 | allison++ | ChrootSetup
03:07 dalek tracwiki: https://trac.parrot.org/parrot/wiki/C​hrootSetup?version=18&action=diff
03:07 shorten dalek's url is at http://xrl.us/bekizb
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04:41 chromatic "And yet we lugged that data forward from release to release in the mistaken belief that there was value in tracking every single time someone reported some nit picky thing that the business just didn’t care about."  http://testobsessed.com/2009/03/13/​handling-bugs-in-an-agile-context/
04:41 shorten chromatic's url is at http://xrl.us/beki92
04:42 mikehh joined #parrot
04:43 davidfetter chromatic, that explains so much about proprietary software
04:43 davidfetter and about frAgile :P
04:46 mikehh parrot r37508 passes fulltest Ubuntu Intrepid AMD64
04:47 chromatic Have you read the book she and James Shore worked on?  There's a story in there about a team writing embedded software in C for some farm implement (threshing machine?) with almost zero bugs -- despite having no experience writing embedded software and minimal experience writing C.
04:53 allison mikehh: thanks!
04:54 * davidfetter still scarred by an "agile" experience almost a decade back
04:54 davidfetter "tests not passing" -> "gin the test code"
04:54 davidfetter that was a typical scenario
04:55 davidfetter it was at an andy hertzfeld company. unless you have masochism in your soul, never get near anything that guy's up to
04:56 chromatic That's one reason I don't use a Mac, yes.
05:00 davidfetter just exactly what did he have to do with the mac?
05:00 davidfetter i know he tells stories, but i haven't seen much by way of corroboration of same
05:00 davidfetter and i've got to say, he's got about a W level of credibility with me
05:01 davidfetter my current theory is that he was at the right place at the right time, grabbed a lot of credit (and a lot of stock) not due him, and his been riding that "success" ever since
05:04 chromatic He had more to do with it than I did, anyway.
05:05 davidfetter were you even out of diapers when that thing rolled out? ;)
05:06 chromatic If I hadn't already taken my first programming class by then, I was a year away.
05:07 * davidfetter not sure whether that's a yes or no, given the age at which a lot of people start
05:08 chromatic This was '83 or '84, and that was the last programming class I took.
05:08 chromatic Apple ][ BASIC, as I recall.
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05:15 davidfetter ah, the APPLE ][
05:15 davidfetter forced me to learn assembler :)
05:24 Tene I wasn't even born then.
05:24 chromatic Get off my lawn.
05:25 Tene But I was writing docs there...
05:25 * davidfetter loved that movie
05:28 Theory chromatic++
05:57 NotFound joined #parrot
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05:57 NotFound hi
05:57 purl que tal, NotFound.
05:57 cotto hio
06:02 masak hello.
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06:47 dalek parrot: r37510 | allison++ | trunk/ports/ubuntu/changelog:
06:47 dalek parrot: [ubuntu] Changelog entry for Standards-Version update, caught two references to
06:47 dalek parrot: libraries already upgraded in earlier entry.
06:47 dalek parrot: review: https://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/37510/
06:51 dalek parrot: r37511 | allison++ | trunk/ports/debian/changelog:
06:51 dalek parrot: [debian] (Copying from Ubuntu) caught two references to libraries already
06:51 dalek parrot: upgraded in earlier entry.
06:51 dalek parrot: review: https://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/37511/
06:55 dalek parrot: r37512 | allison++ | trunk/DEPRECATED.pod:
06:55 dalek parrot: [cage] One final "BEFORE 1.0" deprecation item updated to "eligible in 1.1".
06:55 dalek parrot: review: https://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/37512/
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07:04 dalek parrot: r37513 | allison++ | failed to fetch changeset:
07:04 dalek parrot: [release] Updates to NEWS from commit log since last release.
07:04 dalek parrot: review: https://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/37513/
07:20 donaldh joined #parrot
07:24 dalek parrot: r37514 | allison++ | trunk/README:
07:24 dalek parrot: [doc] Some cleanups to the main README file preparing for release.
07:24 dalek parrot: review: https://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/37514/
07:32 cotto allison++ #attention to detail
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08:28 dalek parrot: r37515 | fperrad++ | trunk/tools/dev/fetch_languages.pl:
08:28 dalek parrot: [external languages] add more languages
08:28 dalek parrot: review: https://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/37515/
08:43 rafl joined #parrot
08:47 cotto woohoo!
08:47 cotto I have a fuzzer!
08:47 tuxdna joined #parrot
08:58 nopaste joined #parrot
09:28 mikehh purl says he/she/it has a message for me - how do I retreive it?
09:28 purl i don't know, mikehh
09:29 moritz purl: messages
09:30 moritz mikehh: like that. purl will /msg you
09:32 mikehh moritz: thanks - and good morning even if I didn't reply in #perl
09:32 mikehh that was #perl6
09:33 rurban_ joined #parrot
09:33 moritz :-)
09:35 * allison back in about 8 hours
09:36 cotto I like allison's idea.
09:36 cotto night
09:37 moritz sleeping is so 2008 :-)
09:42 rurban get to a decent timezone :)
10:11 xinming_ joined #parrot
10:11 xinming_ For parrot 1.0, To me, It's just an milestone to finish perl 6. :-)     And let's wait...
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10:55 dalek parrot: r37516 | fperrad++ | trunk/tools/dev/mk_inno_language.pl:
10:55 dalek parrot: [inno] grab documentation in 'doc' & 'docs'
10:55 dalek parrot: review: https://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/37516/
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11:14 mikehh I have built parrot.1.0.0 from http://www.lohutok.net/parrot/parrot-1.0.0.tar.gz - smolder - http://smolder.plusthree.com/app/pu​blic_projects/report_details/19148
11:14 shorten mikehh's url is at http://xrl.us/bekjrn
11:15 mikehh Kubuntu Intrepid i386 - am runnung make fulltest now
11:20 mikehh s/runnung/running/
11:29 ruoso joined #parrot
11:39 Topic for #parrotis now Parrot 1.0 | The Bird Flies Today! | http://parrot.org/
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12:02 rurban t/pmc/file.t fails for me on cygwin the first run.
12:02 rurban t/pmc/eval.t also
12:03 rurban I had this yesterday in my pretests also. Not good.
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12:13 rurban t/op/debuginfo.t fails also on cygwin with 1.0.0
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12:22 jonathan I get
12:22 jonathan Failed Test                     Stat Wstat Total Fail  List of Failed
12:22 jonathan ----------------------------------------​---------------------------------------
12:22 jonathan t/compilers/imcc/syn/veracity.t    1   256     5    1  5
12:22 jonathan t/op/arithmetics.t                 2   512    30    2  29-30
12:22 jonathan On Microsoft (R) 32-bit C/C++ Optimizing Compiler Version 12.00.8168 for 80x86
12:23 jonathan (Relatively old version of the compiler, I know).
12:23 jonathan So no serious failures...
12:23 rurban jonathan: msvc6, yes?
12:24 rurban I just have a problem with File::Temp on cygwin-1.7
12:24 jonathan rurban: Yes.
12:27 ujwalic src\ops\experimental.ops is still present ?
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12:36 mikehh make fulltest fails at manifest_tests all skipped fails NOTESTS
12:37 mikehh make examples and make distro_tests PASS
12:37 mikehh examples_tests
12:39 rurban --optimize fails on debian amd64 with invoke() not implemented in class 'Key' (Perl6Grammar)
12:44 Andy joined #parrot
12:55 dalek parrot: r37517 | rurban++ | trunk/t/native_pbc (11 files):
12:55 dalek parrot: [t] native_pbc updates for parrot-1.0.0, bytecode 4.0, little-endian only
12:55 dalek parrot: review: https://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/37517/
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12:58 rurban debian amd64 with invoke fixed by fresh cleanup (realclean failed)
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13:08 dalek parrot: r37518 | rurban++ | trunk/t/native_pbc/header.t:
13:08 dalek parrot: [t] fix header bc_minor test for x.0
13:08 dalek parrot: review: https://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/37518/
13:16 wknight8111 all tests pass for me on Ubuntu_8.10_x86-64
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13:38 ujwalic Test Summary Report
13:38 ujwalic -------------------
13:38 ujwalic t/op/trans                         (Wstat: 256 Tests: 22 Failed: 1)
13:38 rurban make test passes on freebsd i386 gcc
13:38 ujwalic Failed test:  11
13:38 ujwalic TODO passed:   13
13:38 ujwalic Non-zero exit status: 1
13:38 ujwalic t/library/rand                     (Wstat: 256 Tests: 2 Failed: 1)
13:38 ujwalic Failed test:  1
13:38 ujwalic Non-zero exit status: 1
13:39 ujwalic Files=247, Tests=8022, 829 wallclock secs ( 3.34 usr +  0.62 sys =  3.96 CPU)
13:39 ujwalic Result: FAIL
13:39 ujwalic NMAKE : fatal error U1077: 'F:\APP\DEV\ActiveState\Perl\5.10.0\bin\perl.exe' : return code '0x1'
13:39 ujwalic Stop.
13:39 ujwalic nmake test passes on WinXP with MSVS
13:39 rurban ujwalic: which msvcrt.dll version dou you have?
13:39 ujwalic Microsoft (R) 32-bit C/C++ Optimizing Compiler Version 15.00.30729.01 for 80x86
13:40 rurban that's msvc9, right?
13:40 ujwalic ya
13:40 rurban and c:/windows/system32/msvcrt.dll matches that?
13:41 rurban (that's the libc on windows)
13:41 ujwalic let me  check
13:43 rurban I have 7.0.2600.5512 (xp)
13:43 ujwalic me too
13:43 rurban good, that explains it
13:44 ujwalic so what's the fix
13:44 ujwalic rename it ??
13:44 wknight8111 all tests pass on WinVista-x86_32
13:44 rurban skip  the tests on msvc or fix the implementaton :)
13:45 ujwalic :)
13:45 rurban the math tests only fail on xp with an older runtime
13:45 ujwalic its rand
13:45 rurban rand also belongs to this math brokeness
13:45 ujwalic and op/trans
13:46 rurban Transcendental Math
13:46 ujwalic ok
13:46 rurban atan or such
13:46 ujwalic trigonometry etc. ...
13:47 ujwalic any one got OpenGL examples working on windows
13:47 ujwalic xp or vista
13:55 rurban I've removed cygSDL-1-2-0, so it's broken for me
13:59 rurban trans.t 11 and 13 were ok for me on xp msvc6 last month
14:15 rurban ujwalic: I see that the loadlib straces never get to the windows system paths. do have glu32.dll, gklut32.dll and opengl32.dll in your path?
14:15 rurban glu32.dll, glut32.dll and opengl32.dll, sorry
14:16 ujwalic they are in the path
14:16 rurban and what is your error?
14:16 purl your error is false specification
14:16 ujwalic I was able to get opengl in dll and invoke that with NCI
14:17 ujwalic let me check it again
14:19 rurban on cygwin I know why it fails. I'll file a ticket for GLUT 3 on cygwin
14:19 ujwalic GLUT: Fatal Error in examples\opengl\triangle.pir: failed to create OpenGL rendering context.
14:20 ujwalic on cygwin what is the error
14:21 rurban Could not find a suitable GLU shared library!
14:21 ujwalic ok
14:21 rurban a simple loadlib problem
14:22 ujwalic it was trying three libs UNIX then windows then Mac I think
14:22 rurban with freeglut (X) on cygwin it worked before
14:22 ujwalic ok
14:22 ujwalic I am using Mesa 7.2 and Mesa 7.3
14:25 ujwalic when do parrot event system get initialized .. does it have any effect on OGL or GUI apps events ?
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14:26 rurban rg: allison bumped PBC to 4.0 so we need new native_pbc's :)
14:26 rurban 3,6+7
14:27 rurban before 18:30
14:27 dalek rakudo: 4ff1b17 | jnthn++ |  (4 files):
14:27 dalek rakudo: First cut implementation of state variables in Rakudo. Not perfect, but passes at half of state.t (and 5/7ths of what in state.t we can pass without implementing extra unrelated features). Needs makefile re-generated to build.
14:27 dalek rakudo: review: http://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/4​ff1b172b44aceaa04e1721a4be65ea2f4dc5b03
14:27 shorten dalek's url is at http://xrl.us/bekkb9
14:27 dalek rakudo: e43118a | jnthn++ | perl6.pir:
14:27 dalek rakudo: Ooops; last commit missed updated perl6.pir to reference PCT state extension.
14:27 dalek rakudo: review: http://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/e​43118a79fddced1d615becafacfb3c563851946
14:27 shorten dalek's url is at http://xrl.us/bekkcb
14:27 dalek rakudo: 042444b | jnthn++ | t/spectest.data:
14:27 dalek rakudo: Add S04-declarations/state.t to spectest.data.
14:27 dalek rakudo: review: http://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/0​42444b96b7496bc74f0043369b67f6c5c57dd37
14:27 shorten dalek's url is at http://xrl.us/bekkcd
14:27 dalek rakudo: 5af6f41 | jnthn++ |  (2 files):
14:27 dalek rakudo: Merge branch 'master' of git@github.com:rakudo/rakudo
14:27 dalek rakudo: review: http://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/5​af6f41baa29dd74105b8c9e31b83b4b6f494959
14:27 shorten dalek's url is at http://xrl.us/bekkcf
14:32 rg in case anyone is interested: solaris/sparc64 passed fulltest compiled with sun cc (and gcc in path for configure tests) on r37505
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15:06 rg rurban: btw, big endian with long double still considers itself _3. i think we need to reconsider the naming scheme.
15:06 rg big endian 32 bit that is
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15:59 Nom joined #parrot
15:59 Nom yay the big day :D
15:59 Theory joined #parrot
15:59 Nom pretty close, i'm guessing?
16:05 particle nom: yes, ~3 hours from now, i suppose
16:05 Nom Nice :)
16:06 Nom Worst case you can borrow my company's development policy.
16:06 Nom If it's nice and stable, and everything works the way it should, then you should have deployed 2 weeks ago.
16:07 dalek parrot: r37519 | particle++ | trunk/PLATFORMS:
16:07 dalek parrot: [RELEASE] PLATORMS updates for MSWin32-x86-msvc_9.0
16:07 dalek parrot: review: https://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/37519/
16:10 korshak joined #parrot
16:16 jsut fyi, i'm still seeing the test failure mention here https://trac.parrot.org/parrot/ticket/205 on r37518
16:24 dalek rakudo: cc85a31 | jnthn++ | src/ (3 files):
16:24 dalek rakudo: Sometimes you have to screw it up before getting it right(er). Refactor state variables a bit. Gets all tests in state.t that aren't broken due to other features missing/broken passing.
16:24 dalek rakudo: review: http://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/c​c85a31ab053f3218d49eed4d4d3d324fa8f8506
16:24 shorten dalek's url is at http://xrl.us/bekkvf
16:27 rurban msvc6 on xp - all pass
16:30 * particle notices DONORS.pod is out of date, and fixes it
16:30 korshak left #parrot
16:32 dalek parrot: r37520 | particle++ | trunk/DONORS.pod:
16:32 dalek parrot: [RELEASE] update DONORS.pod--formatting and contents
16:32 dalek parrot: review: https://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/37520/
16:33 * particle can't find a link to donors.pod anywhere under http://www.parrot.org/parrot/latest/html
16:40 tuxdna` joined #parrot
16:42 dalek parrot: r37521 | allison++ | trunk/parrot.spec:
16:42 dalek parrot: [cage] Updates to RPM spec file for upcoming release. Thanks to Gerd Pokorra
16:42 dalek parrot: for the patch.
16:42 dalek parrot: review: https://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/37521/
16:46 allison particle: it's in the 1.0 version of the generated docs, right on the front page
16:47 particle yeah, saw that in my trunk build, great.
16:47 tuxdna left #parrot
16:48 tuxdna joined #parrot
16:52 NotFound allison: Have you looked at TT #436 ?
16:53 allison NotFound: didn't see it, looking...
16:54 rakudohudson joined #parrot
16:55 allison NotFound: yes, looks good, and safe to apply before release, go ahead
16:56 NotFound allison: there is an additional change needed: the "encoding" fields in string constants does not exist in trunk.
16:56 allison NotFound: missing in the doc, or missing in the implementation?
16:57 NotFound allison: in the implementation, It's not used and there is no space reserved for it.
16:57 allison NotFound: then in the doc note "not yet implemented".
16:57 NotFound I'd make a try to implement it, but there was not enough time to implement and test it.
16:58 allison NotFound: yes, definitely not the time to be changing the packfile format, we just want to make sure the documentation isn't confusing
16:58 allison (can implement it for 1.4)
16:58 NotFound allison: yes, but I'm not sure how to make that without confusing about the offset of the following fields. Duplicating the table, maybe?
16:59 allison NotFound: a duplicate table is more info than people need, just add a note
16:59 NotFound Ok
17:07 dalek parrot: r37522 | allison++ | trunk/PLATFORMS:
17:07 dalek parrot: [cage] Update to PLATFORMS for Solaris 8/Sparc32 with Sun's cc compiler. Thanks
17:07 dalek parrot: to Andy Dougherty for the patch.
17:07 dalek parrot: review: https://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/37522/
17:07 nopaste "rurban" at 212.183.59.112 pasted "t/library/opengl.t can someone test?" (90 lines) at http://nopaste.snit.ch/15899
17:09 allison rurban: save adding that test file for after the release
17:09 rg allison: solaris 10/sparc64 also passes fulltest with sun's cc (and gcc installed for config tests)
17:10 rurban allison: I'll make a ticket for sure but I wanted ,maybe someone to test it before if it works at all
17:10 allison rg: excellent
17:12 allison rurban: okay
17:12 dalek parrot: r37523 | allison++ | trunk/NEWS:
17:12 dalek parrot: [release] Small grammar fixes for news.
17:12 dalek parrot: review: https://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/37523/
17:13 rdice joined #parrot
17:15 rurban allison++ # for introducing pbc version 4.0. this makes the packfile compat reading logic much simplier
17:19 eternaleye joined #parrot
17:20 rurban NotFound: Cannot we justadd the dummy encoding field NOW?
17:21 rurban Otherwise we must bump the major version again
17:21 dalek parrot: r37524 | NotFound++ | trunk/docs/pdds/pdd13_bytecode.pod:
17:21 NotFound rurban: I can't think of any reasonable value to be assigned to it
17:21 dalek parrot: [docs] Document current practice in pdd13, TT #436
17:21 dalek parrot: review: https://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/37524/
17:21 dalek rakudo: 285279b | jnthn++ | build/gen_metaop_pir.pl:
17:21 rurban 0
17:21 dalek rakudo: Fix LHS-dwimming hyper-op unicode variant generation. Patch thanks to krunen++.
17:21 dalek rakudo: review: http://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/2​85279b0cfce47dfca90616dbc9c65b8e8c0bf89
17:21 shorten dalek's url is at http://xrl.us/bekk7s
17:22 rurban The reader will ignore it for now. but we need the space for it.
17:25 NotFound rurban: For which practical purpose? The change of implementing it is significant enough to change pbc version, and then the reader can check the version number and skip it.
17:25 rurban but we promised to bump major if we change the format, which we do if we add a string field
17:26 moritz then we'll bump the major version.
17:26 moritz are they so rare?
17:26 NotFound rurban: ignoring or not ignoring a field is a format change to me.
17:26 rurban we just bumped it today the 4-th time
17:27 NotFound And to be able to not ignore it, we msut assign some value to it.
17:27 NotFound That is the question: what value?
17:27 moritz so, are major version numbers that rare?
17:27 rurban just 0
17:28 NotFound rurban: I think 0 is a valid encoding number.
17:28 rurban we can implement the num=>name later
17:28 rurban -1 then?
17:28 rurban we ignore it anyway so we can use any number
17:29 NotFound And wich semantic for it? I thinked about assigning it the meaning "use preferred encoding", but I don't think that is what the current implementation does.
17:30 NotFound rurban: but if we plan to stop ignoring it without changing pbc_version, we must assign a usable value.
17:31 nopaste "rurban" at 93.82.82.92 pasted "add string encoding field within 4.0" (34 lines) at http://nopaste.snit.ch/15900
17:31 rurban_ joined #parrot
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17:32 allison rurban: no additions to the packfile format 1 hour before the release
17:32 rurban_ but we do agree that we need this field.
17:33 rurban_ okay :)
17:33 NotFound We don't need it just for the sake to fill a hole. We need to implement it.
17:33 NotFound And can't do that now.
17:33 rurban_ NotFound: we can think of skipping charset and using the encoding in this field then (using unicode for all, if we have icu)
17:34 rurban_ well, I woudl need it just for filling a hole and justifying the 4.0 bump
17:34 NotFound rurban_: that's not how current code works. charset and encoding are decoupled.
17:34 wknight8111 #ps in 56, right?
17:34 rurban_ and we need it anyway, as your testcase showed.
17:35 rurban_ I''l have to leave, so I''l post my #ps report now
17:39 rg sorry i couldn't finish the pbc files yet. probably not even until the release. that sparc is too slow.
17:39 Tene Ooo... I wonder if I can end my presentation tomorrow by adding support to mod_parrot...
17:39 Tene That would be fun.
17:45 rurban rg: tests are skipped anyway but it would have been nice to have them more widespread.
17:46 jonathan Tene: Sounds cool! :-)
17:47 rg rurban: i think people wanting to experiment with pbc compatibility should be running trunk anyway.
17:47 rurban Agreed. And I have to fix the missing/wrong converters anyway.
17:47 Tene jonathan: I've got some Web.pm stuff to do first, but I expect to get the .leave stuff in for you this week.
17:48 jonathan Tene: Oh awesome!
17:48 purl awesome is a window manager or at http://awesome.naquadah.org
17:48 jonathan Thanks!
17:48 rg btw did i miss the pbc_compat bump checking?
17:48 rg check-in
17:48 purl check-in is from 4 pm to 8 (or later) for yapc on Tues., June 20, or any day of the conference when you arrive.  Don't stress about it, just go to the talks you want and register when you're ready.
17:48 rurban I have to leave now, happy releasing!!! Looks good. 2.0 will be better :) (faster)
17:49 dalek parrot: r37525 | allison++ | trunk/lib/Parrot/OpsRenumber.pm:
17:49 dalek parrot: [cage] Clear up legacy (and untested) developer tool code that would have
17:49 dalek parrot: activated like a timebomb at the bump up of the major version number to 1.
17:49 dalek parrot: Thanks to Reini Urban for identifying the problematic code.
17:49 dalek parrot: review: https://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/37525/
17:50 NotFound rurban: created TT #468 for the encoding problem
17:50 Tene 2.0: Harder, Better, Faster, Stronger?
17:51 rurban NotFound: My patch doesn't work. freeze chatters src/pmc_freeze.c:1387: failed assertion '!must_have_seen'
17:51 NotFound rurban: you need to also modify the segment size calculation
17:52 rurban 2.0: more testcases, better perl6, better MMD, better PBC reading (the malloc mess), faster
17:53 rurban NotFound++ for TT #468
17:54 rurban So, now I'm away
18:03 dalek parrot: r37526 | allison++ | trunk/t/pmc/io.t:
18:03 dalek parrot: [cage] Skip segfaulting I/O buffering test, see TT #418.
18:03 dalek parrot: review: https://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/37526/
18:07 xinming_ Is 1.0 announced?
18:07 Tene #ps in 27
18:07 allison xinming: in a little over an hour
18:07 cxreg fyi the git url for cardinal in NEWS is wrong. it's git://github.com/cardinal/cardinal.git
18:07 Tene cxreg++
18:08 xinming_ hmm, Ok, As I see that /topic doesn't have x day to release. :-)
18:08 moritz the "The Bird Flies Today" implies that x == 0
18:08 cxreg oh, I guess that is supposed to be a web url, not a clone url
18:09 shoe joined #parrot
18:09 allison cxreg: the links go the the front page for each project, not.... <corrects>  yes, you've got it
18:09 particle http://xrl.us/bekmfy
18:09 xinming_ moritz: But I can't see bird fly in www.parrot.org    ;-)
18:10 moritz xinming_: the topic isn't in past tense ;-)
18:11 xinming_ 2009 is a good year, parrot 1.0 released, Hopefully, We'll see a fully bootstrapped perl 6 this year. :-)
18:12 ujwalic hope the same :)
18:13 shoe all: I just stopped in to congratulate you.  Keep up the good work!
18:13 * particle waits for the other shoe to drop (in)
18:14 xinming_ I believe that perl6 + parrot will live for my life time. :-)
18:16 dalek rakudo: 90c8b8e | jnthn++ | src/classes/Junction.pir:
18:16 dalek rakudo: We need to be a little careful when auto-threading ~~ to make sure we can still do $x ~~ Jonction and have it be a type-check. I'm quite hopeful this hack can go away when we are using the Perl 6 multi-dispatch algorithm; either way, this makes it work now and lets us add a test so we don't miss it when we make that switch.
18:16 dalek rakudo: review: http://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/9​0c8b8e8dacb45fbe6d9034cb1946cb004898481
18:16 shorten dalek's url is at http://xrl.us/bekmgx
18:21 dalek rakudo: 17238ba | jnthn++ | t/spectest.data:
18:21 dalek rakudo: Add the fully-pasing S03-junctions/basic.t to spectest.data (covers also $junc ~~ Junction).
18:21 dalek rakudo: review: http://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/1​7238bae08bbb784dac4562356e9b8caba2667d2
18:21 shorten dalek's url is at http://xrl.us/bekmhy
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18:44 dalek parrot: r37527 | moritz++ | trunk/PLATFORMS:
18:44 dalek parrot: [PLATFORMS] second solaris update by (Andy Dougherty)++
18:45 dalek parrot: review: https://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/37527/
18:45 masak I might as well ask here: given a UTF-8-encoded string in Parrot, how do I get a sequence of bytes?
18:47 chromatic TT #418 and #445 are the same bug.
18:50 ruoso joined #parrot
18:50 dalek rakudo: 1ea27f2 | jnthn++ | src/setting/Object.pm:
18:50 dalek rakudo: Implement eigenstates on Object too.
18:50 dalek rakudo: review: http://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/1​ea27f2788e85ae8aa862b5bc9af0350b9f5b52c
18:50 shorten dalek's url is at http://xrl.us/bekmnv
18:51 masak is http://www.parrotcode.org/do​cs/pdd/pdd04_datatypes.html supposed to be empty, save for "Draft: Pending Verification"?
18:52 particle is there an up-to-date graphic showing our commit rate, and releases?
18:53 particle http://www.perlfoundation.org/parrot/index.cgi/​parrot-devel-0.7.0.png?action=attachments_downl​oad;page_name=parrot;id=20080823041511-0-7546 is ancient
18:53 shorten particle's url is at http://xrl.us/bekmom
18:55 particle what's this, our 27th monthly?
18:57 cotto particle, I have a graph through r37290
19:01 particle ideally, a graph through today would be best :)
19:01 cotto do you prefer to generate a more recent graph?
19:01 particle ...including today's release, that is
19:01 cotto I might as well do that.  I've already got the script working.
19:07 wknight8111 my job is seriously impeding my #ps time
19:08 chromatic Work is for suckers.
19:09 wknight8111 yeah, screw this. I'm leaving
19:09 chromatic s/leaving/going home/
19:12 wknight8111 nah, I can't. Shift's not up till 4
19:12 * wknight8111 is too much of a wuss to quit his job
19:13 particle ...so was chromatic...
19:13 cotto yay for golden handcuffs
19:13 chromatic Yeah, I had to have someone else quit it for me.  At least it worked though.
19:16 tuxdna joined #parrot
19:16 Tene cotto: would be interesting to see a plot of the rate-of-change of that
19:17 cotto The script that generates the graph is on tpf's wiki.
19:21 cotto http://www.perlfoundation.org/parrot/index.cg​i/svnlog2graph.pl?action=attachments_download​%3Bpage_name=parrot%3Bid=20070930150840-0-670
19:21 shorten cotto's url is at http://xrl.us/bekmsy
19:23 rblasch joined #parrot
19:29 barney Pipp is fine with svn HEAD
19:33 particle shall we rip out Makefile.PL?
19:34 chromatic If we're not going on the CPAN anymore, there's little reason to keep it.
19:34 particle after release, i mean.
19:34 moritz allison: your parrot-1.0.0 preview fails with 'make[1]: *** [manifest_tests] Error 1'
19:34 particle it's probably documented somewhere, and we don't want to break that
19:34 moritz but all other stuff seems to be fine (in fulltest with --optimize on amd64 linux)
19:35 nopaste "moritz" at 91.10.202.213 pasted "make manifest_tests" (10 lines) at http://nopaste.snit.ch/15901
19:36 chromatic That's an odd error.
19:36 moritz it is.
19:37 Util moritz, it is from r26530.
19:37 cotto would tools/dev or tools/util be the right place for a fuzzer?
19:37 particle ch02_getting_started.pod has a bit on 'auth.perl.org' username
19:38 Util Everything in manifest_tests is skipped, causing a result of NOTESTS instead of PASS or FAIL.
19:38 moritz ah
19:38 particle also talks about languages/
19:38 Util NOTESTS causes exit_code!=0, so `make` stops.
19:39 chromatic cotto, tools/dev sounds good
19:40 allison moritz: oh, yes the manifest tests are all skipped when running from a tarball instead of a repository checkout
19:40 cotto chromatic, thanks
19:42 bobke joined #parrot
19:43 moritz well, it would be nice if 'make fulltest' wouldn't abort
19:43 cotto It doesn't anymore (afaik
19:43 cotto )
19:43 chromatic I think that's make fulltest_all
19:51 Util chromatic, moritz: yes, it is fulltest_all. I forgot to put it into `make help`
19:54 particle allison++ # your dedication to the quality of release is strong and unwavering
19:56 dalek parrot: r37528 | allison++ | trunk/docs/book/ch02_getting_started.pod:
19:56 dalek parrot: [doc] Update reference to languages/ directory and old auth.perl.org.
19:56 dalek parrot: review: https://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/37528/
20:00 allison moritz: nothing has changed in trunk, so chances are it's something in Rakudo that's changed
20:00 dalek parrot: r37529 | allison++ | trunk/docs/pdds/pdd13_bytecode.pod:
20:00 dalek parrot: [cage] Rewrap lines to fix coding standards tests.
20:00 dalek parrot: review: https://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/37529/
20:01 moritz allison: after another realclean + make cycle things look differently here...
20:01 moritz allison: seems to be a local problem here, so don't worry too much ;-)
20:03 szabgab joined #parrot
20:08 cotto what's the default runcore?
20:09 rg the slow (also called bounds-check) runcore
20:10 cotto thanks
20:10 rg oops that's bounds-checks
20:18 dalek tracwiki: v139 | allison++ | ParrotRoadmap
20:18 dalek tracwiki: https://trac.parrot.org/parrot/wiki/Par​rotRoadmap?version=139&amp;action=diff
20:18 shorten dalek's url is at http://xrl.us/bekm37
20:18 dalek tracwiki: v140 | allison++ | ParrotRoadmap
20:18 dalek tracwiki: https://trac.parrot.org/parrot/wiki/Par​rotRoadmap?version=140&amp;action=diff
20:18 shorten dalek's url is at http://xrl.us/bekm39
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20:22 dalek tracwiki: v141 | allison++ | ParrotRoadmap
20:23 dalek tracwiki: https://trac.parrot.org/parrot/wiki/Par​rotRoadmap?version=141&amp;action=diff
20:23 dalek parrot: r37530 | allison++ | trunk (10 files):
20:23 shorten dalek's url is at http://xrl.us/bekm4w
20:23 dalek parrot: [cage] Updating big-endian native PBC test resource files.
20:23 dalek parrot: review: https://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/37530/
20:29 * allison running fulltest a final time before building the tarball...
20:31 rg allison: did you intentionally not commit the PBC_COMPAT bump to trunk?
20:34 dalek rakudo: 72f522d | (Carl Masak)++ | src/ (2 files):
20:34 dalek rakudo: translated &unpack from PIR to Setting
20:34 purl babelfish cannot translate from en to en.  Try translating through English.
20:34 dalek rakudo: review: http://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/7​2f522dcb4b7e3932fb44655d9c2808ce4a80561
20:34 shorten dalek's url is at http://xrl.us/bekm59
20:36 NotFound allison: checked all native_pbc files with pbc_chekcer, looks good
20:42 masak given a string "☺" in Parrot, how do I get "E2 98 BA"?
20:42 chromatic $P0 = new 'Hash'
20:43 chromatic $P0['☺'] = 'E2 98 BA'
20:43 masak :P
20:43 allison rg: will commit in the final "commit all 1.0 changes" step of release process
20:43 chromatic $S0 = $P0['☺']
20:43 masak chromatic: that's fine, but... :)
20:44 chromatic It passes the first test.
20:44 masak using Parrot, given a character, how do I get the bytes encoding that character in UTF-8?
20:44 moritz on PIR level, preferably
20:44 masak aye.
20:45 chromatic I don't know if we have a to_bytes conversion.
20:45 NotFound masak: print it to a StringHandler
20:45 moritz chromatic: if some IO is done, then it must be implemented somehow
20:45 masak NotFound: do you have example working code where this is done?
20:46 NotFound masak: not, is just the first idea that come to my mind
20:46 NotFound I'll try.
20:46 masak NotFound: thank you.
20:46 * masak acks for StringHandler in the Parrot directory
20:47 moritz masak: did that, no match
20:47 masak is what I'm trying to do really that far-fetched? :)
20:47 masak I just want to look under the hood...
20:47 chromatic That depends what you want to do.
20:48 masak chromatic: I'm writing a Rakudo sub to escape URIs.
20:48 allison masak: are you basically just looking for 'ord' for unicode?
20:48 masak allison: no, not unless ord spits out the actual bytes needed.
20:49 moritz ord() will give the codepoint, not the UTF-8 encoding
20:49 masak exactly.
20:49 allison converting between normalization forms?
20:49 masak I want the latter.
20:49 moritz allison: masak needs to URI-encode strings, and thus needs UTF-8.
20:49 moritz no need for normalization form magic, any will do for now
20:50 masak right.
20:50 moritz (though NFC might be preferable, if one has to choose something)
20:51 masak that feels like a later problem.
20:51 Tene allison: I suppose it's too late to get a patch in for the release, yes? ;)
20:51 allison Tene: depends on the patch
20:51 Tene NCI sigs for mod_parrot
20:52 allison that's safe, go ahead (if you do it right now)
20:52 allison 10 mins from now is too late
20:53 Tene Added locally, testing it...
20:54 Tene committed
20:54 Tene allison: thanks
20:55 dalek parrot: r37531 | tene++ | trunk/config/gen/call_list/misc.in:
20:55 dalek parrot: Add an NCI sig for mod_parrot.
20:55 dalek parrot: review: https://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/37531/
20:58 davidfetter joined #parrot
20:59 davidfetter parrot go bragh!
21:03 NotFound masak: forget it, the encoding handling is StringHandle is almost unuseful
21:03 purl NotFound, I didn't have anything matching it, the encoding handling is stringhandle is almost unuseful
21:03 masak NotFound: that's ok, moritz has found a lead on #perl6 which might solve things.
21:04 dalek parrot: r37532 | allison++ | trunk/t/tools/ops2pm/05-renum_op_map_file.t:
21:04 dalek parrot: [cage] Skip wrong opcode renumbering tests. See TT #469.
21:04 dalek parrot: review: https://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/37532/
21:05 NotFound Is not better in FileHandle, BTW
21:05 NotFound There is some reason to have an encoding field but not a charset one in Handle PMCs?
21:07 cotto allison, src/scheduler.c says "catched"
21:09 allison cotto: catched?
21:10 allison cotto: fixed
21:10 davidfetter "the tough coughs has he ploughs the dough"
21:13 allison NotFound: charset is likely a good addition
21:13 dalek parrot: r37533 | allison++ | trunk/src/scheduler.c:
21:13 dalek parrot: [cage] Typo in exception message.
21:13 dalek parrot: review: https://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/37533/
21:17 davidfetter joined #parrot
21:18 mikehh joined #parrot
21:19 dduncan joined #parrot
21:21 dduncan question - what is the current main email list for Parrot internals development, and where is a mail archive on the web?  perl6-internals gets next to no traffic but despite mentions of that being renamed, it is still active period, and I don't see a parrot-porters etc anywhere
21:21 Tene dduncan: parrot-dev
21:21 purl i think parrot-dev is mailto:parrot-dev@lists.parrot.org or http://lists.parrot.org/ma​ilman/listinfo/parrot-dev
21:21 dduncan thank you
21:21 Tene np
21:22 Tene purl++
21:22 cotto dduncan, https://trac.parrot.org/parrot/wiki/WhereIsIt
21:22 dduncan on a tangent, I tried looking for a link about forums on http://www.parrot.org/ but didn't find one
21:23 dduncan oh, pardon me ... perhaps the Developer page ...
21:24 moritz yes, it's the first list item there
21:24 dduncan so obvious now, strange I missed it before
21:29 donaldh joined #parrot
21:32 dduncan a separate question - I'm wanting during this Spring to start implementing a new Parrot hosted language and was wondering whether there were any forums focused on hosted language developers generically, or whether they are best to just use either their own language-dedicated forums or the generic parrot-dev or #parrot?
21:33 dduncan I have a dedicated list anyway but don't expect to get much generic Parrot user questions answered there
21:35 allison dduncan: currently it's all on parrot-dev, but will set up parrot-users, probably in the next couple of weeks
21:35 dduncan sounds good to me ... quite appropriate for a post 1.0 timeframe
21:35 allison dduncan: just go ahead and ask user questions on parrot-dev in the mean time
21:35 dduncan okay
21:35 particle dduncan: #parrot and parrot-dev are fine places to start out
21:35 dduncan thank you both
21:38 dalek rakudo: 39b1290 | (Moritz Lenz)++ | src/ (2 files):
21:38 dalek rakudo: implement uc builtin in setting, with inline PIR. Reviews welcome!
21:38 dalek rakudo: review: http://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/3​9b12900d6bcbbf36626dc7c1088bad30e09b796
21:38 shorten dalek's url is at http://xrl.us/bekngm
21:44 Whiteknight joined #parrot
21:51 dalek parrot: r37534 | whiteknight++ | branches/rename_pccinvoke:
21:51 dalek parrot: killing this old branch. It's old, I haven't maintenanced it, and I never overcame the problems I ran into. Will restart fresh post-1.0
21:51 dalek parrot: review: https://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/37534/
21:54 dduncan fyi, I've downloaded and will test-compile http://www.lohutok.net/parrot/parrot-1.0.0.tar.gz now ...
22:14 dalek rakudo: b117c67 | jnthn++ | src/ (3 files):
22:14 dalek rakudo: Implement ||= and &&=, and re-work //= to short-circuit.
22:14 dalek rakudo: review: http://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/b​117c67290798be851d56e2b13e0b9dfed939895
22:14 dalek rakudo: 75cd4a8 | jnthn++ | src/ (2 files):
22:14 shorten dalek's url is at http://xrl.us/beknn4
22:14 dalek rakudo: Merge branch 'master' of git@github.com:rakudo/rakudo
22:14 dalek rakudo: review: http://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/7​5cd4a886b61189930aa01315ac012b7ebf2c82e
22:14 shorten dalek's url is at http://xrl.us/beknn6
22:22 * allison making tarball
22:24 dalek parrot: r37535 | allison++ | trunk (11 files):
22:24 dalek parrot: [release] Changes to prepare for 1.0 release.
22:24 dalek parrot: review: https://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/37535/
22:24 Whiteknight allison++
22:24 davidfetter go, allison! :)
22:30 tetragon joined #parrot
22:33 * allison testing the tarball, updating aliases http://www.parrot.org/release/supported
22:38 dduncan so, I've 'make' and 'make test' of Parrot-1.0.0 test, and it was successful on 2 platforms: [Mac OS X 10.5.6/Intel-core-2-duo plus ICU - 15 skipped tests and 575 skip subtests], [Mac OS X 10.5.6/dual-PPC-G4 without ICU - 15 skip tests and 630 subt]; both built with self-compiled Perl 5.10.0 ... still have to run fulltest
22:39 dduncan I have not tested Rakudo etc
22:41 allison dduncan: thanks!
22:43 dalek rakudo: 521a5f1 | (Moritz Lenz)++ | src/setting/Any-str.pm:
22:43 dalek rakudo: some simplifications to inlined PIR suggested by jntn++
22:44 dalek rakudo: review: http://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/5​21a5f12cf187431e343064e593b1acb74d8a711
22:44 shorten dalek's url is at http://xrl.us/beknr6
23:11 dalek parrot: r37536 | allison++ | tags/RELEASE_1_0_0:
23:11 dalek parrot: tagged release 1.0.0
23:11 dalek parrot: review: https://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/37536/
23:13 cotto party time!
23:13 purl Excellent!
23:13 Topic for #parrotis now Parrot 1.0 Released | http://parrot.org/
23:14 jonathan Congrats all! :-)
23:14 * jonathan grabs a beer
23:14 moritz everyone++
23:14 moritz allison++
23:14 jonathan allison++ indeed :-)
23:15 TiMBuS joined #parrot
23:16 dalek tracwiki: v58 | allison++ | WikiStart
23:16 dalek tracwiki: https://trac.parrot.org/parrot/wiki/​WikiStart?version=58&amp;action=diff
23:16 shorten dalek's url is at http://xrl.us/beknvh
23:17 dalek website: allison++ | Parrot 1.0.0 "Haru Tatsu" Released!
23:17 dalek website: http://www.parrot.org/news/2008/Parrot-1.0.0
23:19 Khisanth that is one very surprised looking tag
23:20 moritz Khisanth: surprising? the developers talked about nothing else for the last two weeks ;-)
23:20 chromatic four months
23:20 Khisanth moritz: "0_0:"
23:26 cotto time to break stuff again!
23:27 moritz aye ;-)
23:27 moritz allison: will there be a maint branch for 1.0? or is that going to be copied from the tag?
23:29 dduncan it seems I had a failure for fulltest on the PPC but not on the intel, 1/8034 ('parse FASTA' of pge_examples.t) ... also an unexpected success on ppc
23:30 chromatic We'll only make a maint branch if we need to fix a serious crasher or security bug.
23:30 chromatic We can copy it from the tag if necessary.
23:30 moritz chromatic: ok
23:30 dduncan now one key difference is the intel has ICU and the PPC doesn't ... on the other hand, my current PPC machine is known to be flakey ... unless someone else sees this problem I may repeat the test on PPC to see if the same problem happens
23:31 moritz now we need somebody to write a good blog post about the release, and then slashdot it
23:32 chromatic Ugh, I can imagine the comments.  "Blah blah Python blah blah JVM blah blah eight years blah blah some recycled 4chan meme that wasn't funny to 8 year olds *before* the widespread adoption of the Internet."
23:33 chromatic ... and I read at score 1 and above, with -1 to Funny.
23:33 moritz just read +4 and above ;-)
23:34 moritz ignore the comments; it'll give us publicity ;-)
23:35 cotto commit graph: http://mksig.org/img/parrot_development.png
23:37 chromatic At +4 and above, you get the Python and the 4chan comments from last year.
23:37 chromatic cotto, can you graph the derivatives of that slope at every release?
23:37 Tene I asked for that, and he pointed me at the source. :)
23:38 chromatic If one person asks for that, he's nuts.
23:38 chromatic If two people ask for that, it's a coincidence.
23:38 chromatic If everyone wants it, it's a movement.
23:38 cotto I'm just running someone else's script from an old version of tpf's Parrot wiki page.
23:38 cotto although that would be shiny
23:39 cotto but I want to commit stuff
23:39 * moritz asks for finite difference quotients. Derivatives are too hard to define with discrete steps.
23:40 chromatic Let's just graph the change in slope between release points then.
23:41 rg just graph the number of commits between release points (i.e. difference in revision numbers), but still you need to write a script to do it ;P
23:43 allison moritz: if we end up needing to make a bug or security release for 1.0, we'll create a branch from the tag
23:44 allison moritz: (scrolling further, I see chromatic already answered)
23:44 moritz aye, he did
23:45 moritz the change in slope? second derivative? ;-)
23:46 Tene moritz: would also be interesting.
23:48 moritz anyone's got a parrot_svn.log that I can download?
23:48 moritz it'll take ages to get it from the svn directly
23:49 cotto moritz, just a sec
23:51 cotto sloooooow upload
23:52 cotto clearwire--
23:54 moritz cotto: nevermind... I've got a local svn mirror on one of my servers, and generate there pretty quickly
23:54 moritz probably faster than you can upload
23:54 moritz done ;-)
23:55 cotto http://mksig.org/parrot/parrot_svn.log.gz
23:55 cotto d'oh
23:55 gravity Congratulations to the team!
23:56 gravity allison: If you still want someone to help maintain parrot on a more regular basis for Debian, let me know
23:56 moritz cotto: sorry, only just remebered it
23:57 allison gravity: well, we still need to get it actually uploaded to Debian, so yes
23:57 allison gravity: and always glad to have new members for the Debian Parrot Maintainer's group
23:57 gravity allison: I'd love to work on it. My alioth id is dnusinow if you want to add me
23:57 allison gravity: I'm about to make some changes to the packages too, spliting up the few monolithic packages into more refined ones
23:58 allison gravity: so, we can talk about that on the list
23:58 gravity allison: Ok, sounds good.
23:58 dduncan congradulations on the 1.0
23:58 dalek parrot: r37537 | cotto++ | trunk (2 files):
23:58 dalek parrot: [tools] add parrot-fuzzer
23:58 dalek parrot: review: https://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/37537/
23:59 cotto Mmmmm.  Python with inline pod.

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