Camelia, the Perl 6 bug

IRC log for #parrot, 2009-03-26

Parrot | source cross referenced

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:00 rg well test #13 isn't failing. it's sinh and tanh that are causing problems under specific circumstances
00:03 nopaste "rg" at 93.104.42.222 pasted "FreeBSD jit failure" (66 lines) at http://nopaste.snit.ch/15962
00:05 rg if you want to keep TT#38 specific to the atan failure, we could also reopen RT#36086.
00:05 nopaste "darbelo" at 201.252.61.125 pasted "OpenBSD jit failure" (68 lines) at http://nopaste.snit.ch/15963
00:06 rg that looks quite identical to what i'm seeing, so it could be a *bsd problem.
00:06 kid51 We don't want to open or re-open RT tickets.
00:08 rg we also don't want to migrate tickets. there's quite a lot of information in that rt already. something's got to give.
00:09 kid51 rg:  Could I ask you to open a new TT with your paste output, specifying that the current problems are with sinh, tanh and pow under jit?
00:09 chromatic What's wrong with the existing sinh/arc TT?
00:10 kid51 chromatic:  Didn't know about that?  Which TT?
00:10 rg there's yet another one?
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00:11 chromatic Sure, that's why there's a TODO in one of those tests for JIT and some of those math opcodes.
00:11 chromatic atan2, for example
00:11 chromatic TT #38
00:12 rg c: that's the one we're discussing and kid51 wants to keep this specific to atan2
00:12 kid51 Well, as I read TT#38, it was focused on atan2, which now appears to be passing.
00:12 kid51 Am I misreading it?
00:12 chromatic I believe that's the one marked as unexpectedly succeeding.
00:12 kid51 Yes.
00:13 kid51 cotto asked if TT38 could be closed, as test #13 was now passing.
00:13 chromatic Hm.  I guess these are different enough for a separate ticket.
00:13 kid51 I said, "Let's get confirmation on other platforms."
00:13 chromatic If the atan2 test succeeds on OpenBSD but these don't, that's different.
00:13 rg ok then i'll open a new ticket
00:13 kid51 Until this discussion, I wasn't aware of problems with *other* tests in this file under jit.
00:14 chromatic For some reason I thought these failures included atan2.
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00:15 kid51 See post here of :51 last hour.
00:15 kid51 I don't claim to understand the deep issues here; I'm just trying to manage the tickets.
00:16 rg i was hoping someone could help me debug the cause, but right now i don't really have the time to dig in.
00:20 darbelo There is one caveat that i forgot here. I'm running a 4.5-beta which hasn't been released yet.
00:21 darbelo acording to the changelog it has "Vastly improved C99 support in libm"
00:22 rg darbelo: since i have the same problem, it's probably parrot ;)
00:23 rg also, you can try and run the same command without -j and it should pass.
00:23 darbelo Yeah, well I dont hava a 4.4 or earlier release to test, so i can't be sure tha it isn't a OpenBSD issue that got fixed.
00:32 janus darbelo: good stuff, i didn't find the time yet to investigate which math related things can be fixed now
00:41 Coke_afk quit
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01:24 kid51 Alright, I just closed TT 38.
01:24 kid51 If you want to report errors in t/op/trans.t under JIT for other math functions, please do so in function-specific tickets.
01:25 kid51 E.g., a ticket focused on 'sinh failing under JIT'.
01:25 rg what's different between (sinh|tanh|pow) and e.g. atan2?
01:26 rg i really don't want to open 3 tickets for the same problem
01:26 kid51 They're failing on >1 platform; atan2 no longer is.
01:26 kid51 Will there be one solution to all 3 failures?  If so, then one TT will suffice.
01:26 rg i guess if i could tell i could fix it
01:27 rg the symptoms are the same, though
01:27 kid51 But if you think they will have discrete solutions, then I recommend individual tickets.
01:27 kid51 But, hey, I'm not the only one with a commit bit here.
01:28 rg i much rather write tickets with a patch ;P
01:36 rg uh. sinh fails, cosh works?!
01:39 dalek parrot: r37726 | jkeenan++ | trunk/MANIFEST:
01:39 dalek parrot: Update MANIFEST to include files cited by Andy Dougherty in TT #496, plus one
01:39 dalek parrot: other.
01:39 dalek parrot: review: https://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/37726/
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01:59 dalek parrot: r37727 | jkeenan++ | trunk (2 files):
01:59 dalek parrot: Try to bring into conformance with coding standards; errors cited by Coke in TT 496.
01:59 dalek parrot: review: https://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/37727/
02:02 dalek parrot: r37728 | jkeenan++ | trunk/src/io (2 files):
02:02 dalek parrot: Make file conform to C macro args coding standard.
02:02 dalek parrot: review: https://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/37728/
02:05 dalek parrot: r37729 | jkeenan++ | trunk/src/pmc/socket.pmc:
02:05 dalek parrot: C++-style comments are forbidden.
02:05 dalek parrot: review: https://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/37729/
02:09 Tene pmichaud: ping
02:14 rg kid51: created TT#501
02:14 Tene pmichaud: nm
02:15 dalek parrot: r37730 | jkeenan++ | trunk/src/pmc/socket.pmc:
02:15 dalek parrot: Correct error in C coda.
02:15 dalek parrot: review: https://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/37730/
02:16 rg can someone put a comment in RT#36086 without reopening it?
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02:19 dalek parrot: r37731 | jkeenan++ | trunk/src/io/socket_win32.c:
02:19 dalek parrot: Make file conform to line length coding standard.
02:19 dalek parrot: review: https://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/37731/
02:20 kid51 Damn.  Making a file pass the coding test causes 'make' to fail.
02:22 dalek parrot: r37732 | jkeenan++ | trunk/src/pmc/sockaddr.pmc:
02:22 dalek parrot: Make file conform to C parentheses coding standards.
02:22 dalek parrot: review: https://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/37732/
02:25 kid51 rg:  Yes, I believe you can do that.  Just check that status is 'resolved' when you're done.
02:25 kid51 Thanks.
02:25 dalek parrot: r37733 | jkeenan++ | trunk/src/io/socket_unix.c:
02:25 dalek parrot: Reverting last commit, as solution to coding standard problem caused build to break.
02:25 dalek parrot: review: https://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/37733/
02:29 dalek parrot: r37734 | jkeenan++ | trunk/src/io/socket_win32.c:
02:29 dalek parrot: Reverting a commit done for coding standard that broke build in similar file.
02:29 dalek parrot: review: https://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/37734/
02:29 nopaste "bacek" at 211.29.157.151 pasted "Proper socket macro fix for kid51" (106 lines) at http://nopaste.snit.ch/15964
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02:34 kid51 bacek:  thanks.  How would I apply a patch created via git?
02:35 bacek_ patch -p1 < foo.patch
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02:35 rg kid51: since i don't think i could resolve the ticket, i don't think i can keep it resolved.
02:36 rg or rejected in that case
02:36 kid51 Well, Andy was correct to say let's move the discussion to TT, so 'resolved' in this case doesn't mean 'solved'.
02:36 kid51 Or am I completely misunderstanding you?
02:37 kid51 bacek_  Looks like that worked.  Thanks.
02:37 rg i think you are. my point is that rt will reopen the ticket if i comment on it and i don't have permission to change the status, be it resolved or rejected.
02:37 * kid51 repeats make test to make sure nothing else broke
02:37 rg (andy chose rejected)
02:37 * kid51 looks at RT 36086
02:38 kid51 Enter your comment.  I'll deal with the status (though perhaps in the morning).
02:38 kid51 Thanks.
02:38 rg ok
02:40 kid51 (A ticket that was opened in June 2005 -- and still kickin'!)
02:43 rg hmm looks like it actually stayed on rejected.
02:45 dalek parrot: r37735 | jkeenan++ | trunk/src/io (2 files):
02:45 dalek parrot: Applying patch pasted by bacek++ to bring file into conformance with coding standard without breaking build.
02:45 dalek parrot: review: https://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/37735/
02:46 kid51 rg:  So, we're cool.
02:47 rg yes, thank you.
02:48 kid51 404 unresolved RTs -- let's see if we can get below 400 within 24 hours!
02:49 dalek parrot: r37736 | jkeenan++ | trunk/t/op/trans.t:
02:49 dalek parrot: Point the todo message to TT 501.
02:49 dalek parrot: review: https://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/37736/
02:50 rg you're todo-ing the wrong test
02:50 rg and i believe it only affects *bsd
02:52 kid51 Can you provide patch?
02:53 rg hmm let me see if i can find an example for a platform specific todo
02:54 rg btw RT #31170 looks closeable (just a token ticket anyway and implemented today if i was following the discussion correctly)
03:01 nopaste "RG" at 93.104.42.222 pasted "t/op/trans.t patch" (54 lines) at http://nopaste.snit.ch/15965
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03:08 dalek parrot: r37737 | allison++ | trunk/compilers/pct/src/PAST/Compiler.pir:
03:08 dalek parrot: [pct] Add a signature for 'bxor'.
03:08 dalek parrot: review: https://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/37737/
03:29 rg kid51: patch at http://nopaste.snit.ch/15965
03:29 * rg is off to bed
03:29 * kid51 too
03:32 dalek parrot: r37738 | jkeenan++ | trunk/t/op/trans.t:
03:32 dalek parrot: Applying patch pasted by rg++ correcting TODO labels, etc.
03:32 dalek parrot: review: https://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/37738/
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03:35 dalek parrot: r37739 | tene++ | trunk (2 files):
03:35 dalek parrot: Add CONTROL_LEAVE exception type for rakudo.
03:35 dalek parrot: review: https://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/37739/
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05:09 dalek parrot: r37740 | Infinoid++ | trunk/examples/io/httpd.pir:
05:09 dalek parrot: [examples] httpd.pir should use socket methods (rather than ops) wherever possible.
05:09 dalek parrot: review: https://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/37740/
05:10 Tene purl: msg jonathan &foo.leave and such works now in the leave_exceptions branch.  pmichaud wants to discuss it with you.
05:10 purl Message for jonathan stored.
05:17 pusky joined #parrot
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05:48 Tene purl: msg jonathan if you get &?BLOCK and &?ROUTINE working, most of leave.t (except the stuff using indirect method syntax) will pass
05:48 purl Message for jonathan stored.
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06:09 masak there is wonderful generated documentation for Parrot Compiler Tools that I can view locally after doing 'make html'. however, when I go to http://www.parrotcode.org/docs/compiler_tools.html I get 'This document is a DRAFT' and nothing more.
06:09 masak why?
06:15 Geekneeus make html is my next step :D
06:20 masak I wish someone would fix that. it doesn't feel congruent with a 1.0 release to have a h1 heading screaming DRAFT. especially since nice documentation obviously exists if you dig a little.
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07:40 dalek parrot: r37741 | cotto++ | trunk (3 files):
07:40 dalek parrot: [h] move inclusions of execinfo and dlfnc headers into a template, fixing make cover on Linux x86
07:40 dalek parrot: review: https://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/37741/
07:50 cotto Cool.  We got an LWN article.
07:50 cotto http://lwn.net/Articles/325364/
07:51 cotto Is the guy who wrote that here?
07:53 cotto ++ to him
07:53 moritz bah, that's subscription only
07:54 cotto http://lwn.net/SubscriberLi​nk/325364/41db46bcd5d83e11/
07:54 chromatic cotto, there's a C++ comment in r37741.
07:56 cotto chromatic++, not anymore
07:56 dalek parrot: r37742 | cotto++ | trunk/config/gen/config_h/feature_h.in:
07:56 dalek parrot: [h] fix C++ comment, clarify
07:56 dalek parrot: review: https://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/37742/
08:01 moritz cotto: aye, very nice article
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08:31 cotto seen wknight8111
08:31 purl wknight8111 was last seen on #parrot 8 days, 13 hours, 18 minutes and 25 seconds ago, saying: is too much of a wuss to quit his job  [Mar 17 19:11:41 2009]
08:31 cotto night
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09:39 dalek markdown: 40b00e8 | (Francois Perrad)++ | src/ (3 files):
09:39 dalek markdown: whole refactor codeblock
09:39 dalek markdown: review: http://github.com/fperrad/markdown/commit​/40b00e8757fdc5b8415a2e1c06601e66307a4247
09:39 shorten dalek's url is at http://xrl.us/bemnws
09:39 dalek markdown: 2366993 | (Francois Perrad)++ | src/parser/ (2 files):
09:39 dalek markdown: remove action RawLine
09:39 dalek markdown: review: http://github.com/fperrad/markdown/commit​/23669931d4c0221fd69ffbe8ff1e7139b9c86320
09:39 shorten dalek's url is at http://xrl.us/bemnwu
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09:49 wayland76 gmake[1]: *** [TGE/Parser.pir] Segmentation fault
09:49 wayland76 That's what I'm getting trying to compile Parrot from svn
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11:05 dalek parrot: r37743 | fperrad++ | trunk (2 files):
11:05 dalek parrot: [chm] compute an index
11:05 dalek parrot: code from bsdz++ in TT #492
11:05 dalek parrot: format output like HTML Help Workshop 4.1
11:05 dalek parrot: review: https://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/37743/
11:20 bacek joined #parrot
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11:59 bacek good evening
11:59 bacek karma bacek
11:59 purl bacek has karma of 102
11:59 bacek ok, it's about right time :)
12:00 bacek Can I apply for parrot commit-bit? ( I know about sending CLA, etc)
12:00 DietCoke joined #parrot
12:00 dalek parrot: r37744 | fperrad++ | trunk (3 files):
12:00 dalek parrot: [chm] the book is now a regular section
12:00 dalek parrot: code from bsdz++ in TT #492
12:00 dalek parrot: review: https://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/37744/
12:03 wayland76 It looks like commit bits require that you ask at the right time of day :)
12:06 bacek wayland76: we just far-far away from other world :)
12:07 wayland76 We are, rather, and it's my bedtime, so I'll abandon you too :)
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13:34 moritz bacek: commit bits are usually discussed on #parrotsketch
13:43 Coke who wants commit bits?
13:43 Coke if for parrot, you'll need a CLA before anything could happen anyway.
13:44 donaldh left #parrot
13:52 Coke cla?
13:52 purl i heard cla was Contributor License Agreement or http://www.perlfoundation.org/​contributor_license_agreement or http://www.parrot.org/foundation/legal
14:20 Theory joined #parrot
14:51 diakopter pmichaud: does a potential rakudo contributor need to submit a TPF CLA and/or a PF CLA?
14:51 diakopter (or both)
14:52 diakopter sorry, dumb question, obviously a PF CLA wouldn't be needed
14:52 * diakopter wakes up a bit more
14:55 ruoso joined #parrot
14:58 pmichaud rakudo still requires TPF CLAs
15:01 szabgab joined #parrot
15:11 dalek rakudo: 7d9cd97 | pmichaud++ | docs/spectest-progress.csv:
15:11 dalek rakudo: spectest-progress.csv update: 332 files, 7424 passing, 0 failing
15:11 dalek rakudo: review: http://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/7​d9cd97d261106dd5b43f43f99891abffdf09049
15:11 shorten dalek's url is at http://xrl.us/bemoqk
15:17 particle heh, there are gsoc students interested in porting parrot to plan9
15:17 particle ...but there's no perl5 there. :(
15:19 particle well, there's a sorta-perl5 there
15:20 donaldh joined #parrot
15:24 Coke ooh, someone has submitted a portfile for osx that might fix our install problem.
15:24 Coke s/fix/workaround/
15:26 Infinoid someone++
15:27 moritz particle: did we get an application for it? or just an idea?
15:27 Coke secret is apparently:        install_name_tool - change dynamic shared library install names
15:28 Coke jdfrens++
15:28 Coke doing a build right now... (and it's /just/ a portfile update, no patch required)
15:31 particle moritz: plan9 folks got an idea, or maybe an app
15:33 gravity joined #parrot
15:33 Coke woot. initial patch doesn't work, but I can make it work.
15:34 particle i told them we can co-mentor, if it looks possible (perl support on plan9 is... not great)
15:41 simontwo (but that is probably a feature, since perl is Unix-ish and Plan9 is anti-Unix)
15:43 NotFound Windows is also anti-unix and has perl and parrot ;)
15:43 purl okay, NotFound.
15:43 NotFound purl: forget Windows
15:43 purl NotFound: I forgot windows
15:44 simontwo NotFound, I don't think Windows is actually anti-Unix... just look at the remnants of Unix in places like system32/drivers/etc and more obscure places... I think Windows is just confused. Vista is the glossy prostitute version.
15:44 simontwo purl, Windows?
15:44 purl i don't know, simontwo
15:44 NotFound simontwo: I think that things are here for the benefit of the posix subsystem
15:45 NotFound Or mayne just because that was the easier way to adopt the bsc tcp stack
15:46 NotFound s/bsc/bsd
15:47 NotFound And Vista, I'm happy because I don't have the need to use it at work nor at home
15:47 Coke that's a new one:
15:47 Coke compilers/imcc/imcc.l:1339: warning: variable 'buffer' might be clobbered by 'longjmp' or 'vfork'
15:49 simontwo NotFound, ditto. I never touched a vista box yet. well, I did touch one that was turned off.
15:49 Infinoid on a dare?
15:57 simontwo more like an accident
16:07 darbelo joined #parrot
16:09 Coke WOOT
16:09 Coke 'sudo port install parrot'
16:10 Coke 'which parrot' -> /opt/local/bin/parrot
16:10 Coke 'parrot -v' -> Missing program name
16:10 Coke parrot -[acEGhprtvVwy.] [-d [FLAGS]] [-D [FLAGS]][-O [level]] [-o FILE] <file>
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16:15 dalek parrot: r37745 | coke++ | trunk/ports/macports/Portfile:
16:15 dalek parrot: Get a working 1.0.0 Portfile!
16:15 dalek parrot: Thanks to https://trac.macports.org/ticket/18917 (jdfrens++) for the vital clue.
16:15 dalek parrot: review: https://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/37745/
16:22 dalek parrot: r37746 | coke++ | trunk/ports/macports/Portfile:
16:22 dalek parrot: Revert some unintentional changes to the portfile.
16:22 dalek parrot: (These were inadverntently brought in from the really old version still in macports)
16:22 dalek parrot: review: https://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/37746/
16:22 * Coke reruns the port install to make sure those changes didn't hork anything.
16:26 Coke yay, it still works.
16:33 davidfetter joined #parrot
16:39 dalek parrot: r37747 | fperrad++ | trunk/tools/dev/mk_language_shell.pl:
16:39 dalek parrot: [languages] add the option --gen-parrot and its stuff
16:39 dalek parrot: review: https://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/37747/
16:41 Coke trac's dead.
16:43 davidfetter /requiescat in pace/
16:53 mikehh can't access trac either
16:54 particle moritz: http://gsoc.cat-v.org/ideas/ (parrot on plan 9)
16:57 Coke I like the "first we need perl 5.8.4 ported"
16:57 Coke I'm sure THAT'll be easy. =-)
17:00 davidfetter heh
17:00 davidfetter "first, catch a rabbit."
17:13 NordQ joined #parrot
17:15 particle what's the tpf gsoc irc channel?
17:16 particle i can't believe i forgot....
17:19 rg #soc-help on irc.perl.org.
17:20 particle thanks!
17:25 Coke hopefully the 1.0.0 macport will be live in their system by tomorrow.
17:28 dalek parrot: r37748 | pmichaud++ | trunk/compilers/pge/PGE/Exp.pir:
17:28 dalek parrot: [pge]: Allow routines generated by PGE to honor other pirflags (e.g., from POST)
17:28 dalek parrot: review: https://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/37748/
17:29 particle wow, cool, coke!
17:30 Coke meh. I'm just the glue.
17:30 pmichaud glue can be very important.
17:30 frzntoz joined #parrot
17:30 Coke ^_~
17:30 pmichaud without glue, everything tends to fall apart.
17:31 donaldh left #parrot
17:31 chromatic That would have solved Yeats's problem.
17:33 pmichaud afk # lunch
17:34 dalek rakudo: 0f6354d | pmichaud++ | build/PARROT_REVISION:
17:34 dalek rakudo: Bump PARROT_REVISION to take advantage of PGE changes in r37748.
17:34 davidfetter bon appetit
17:34 dalek rakudo: review: http://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/0​f6354da31fb74eb553d3896d3aafaf84d5e304e
17:34 shorten dalek's url is at http://xrl.us/bempcc
17:38 rindolf joined #parrot
17:38 rindolf Hi all.
17:38 davidfetter hi
17:38 rindolf Does anyone know what is chromatic 's up-to-date email address? It's not on http://www.wgz.org/~chromatic/ or http://www.modernperlbooks.com/mt/20​09/03/modern-perl-fundamentals.html and his oreilly.com address may be out-of-date.
17:38 shorten rindolf's url is at http://xrl.us/bempcv
17:39 rindolf Hi davidfetter
17:39 moritz rindolf: chromatic at wzg iirc
17:39 chromatic yep
17:39 rindolf moritz: thanks.
17:39 moritz chromatic: you would know :-)
17:39 rindolf chromatic: thanks.
17:39 chromatic My previous oreilly.com address forwards to my real account, but it's full of press releases and other uselessness, so I'm about to filter it away.
17:41 rindolf chromatic: OK.
17:41 Coke chromatic?
17:41 Coke msg purl chromatic?
17:41 purl Message for purl stored.
17:42 Coke odd.
17:42 Coke purl, chromatic?
17:42 purl chromatic is <req>a lot of fun.  For years I'd try to play stuff like `peter and the wolf', and then I'd be frustrated because it would use some note I didn't have. or the author of jellybean or mailto:chromatic@wgz.org or http://wgz.org/chromatic/ or the winner of the not-a-contest perl-bugathon. or best reached via email. or the guy who hit me in the eye.
17:42 Coke ah, there you are.
17:42 Coke nice tmbg ref.
17:42 * Coke finds a perlcast on his ipod.
17:42 Infinoid jonathan, pmichaud: So, I replaced socket ops with socket methods as much as possible in the httpd.pir example (r37740).  Thus a bunch of ops can be removed, see the upcoming nopaste.
17:42 nopaste "infinoid" at 75.140.33.106 pasted "Remove unneeded socket ops from io.ops." (67 lines) at http://nopaste.snit.ch/15969
17:43 Coke Are the opcodes part of the spec or no?
17:43 Infinoid No idea, hence the question I was just about to ask :)
17:43 moritz Coke: they were, but are gone now
17:43 Infinoid That seems to require running opsrenumber.pl.  Are there any reasons (e.g. deprecation or whatever) not to go ahead and do that?
17:43 Coke NOOO
17:44 Infinoid Coke: Can you be more specific?
17:44 chromatic I don't even remember the bugathon.  Maybe I should get a trophy.
17:44 chromatic ... unless it was that time I broke English.pm.
17:44 Coke please don't run opsrenumber.pl
17:44 Coke instead, you can probably just remove the offending ops from ops.num
17:44 Infinoid Can I patch opsrenumber.pl to do that?
17:45 rindolf chromatic: OK, I sent you the email I wanted to.
17:45 Coke Infinoid: to do what?
17:45 Infinoid To remove the offending ops from ops.num
17:45 Infinoid If there's a reason to preserve these things, I can see a use for a tool that does so
17:45 Coke I would rather we decide what the policy is first before we write tools.
17:46 Infinoid Well, this is why I asked the question
17:47 Infinoid Sounds like I should ask #parrot-dev about it
17:47 Infinoid err, without the #
17:47 Coke there's a trac ticket referring to a build test that fails without doing the renumbering, also.
17:48 Coke My /guess/ is that pre 1.0, it made sense to renumber whenever we added/subtracted ops to keep things in order.
17:48 Coke My guess is that post 1.0, it makes sense to not gratuitously renumber if we can get away with it.
17:50 PerlJam Coke: sounds like someone should lock ops.num so that it doesn't accidentally get changed.
17:50 Infinoid I can sit on this patch until I can get rid of the remaining "socket" and "sockaddr" ops, which involves adding equivalent methods to the Socket and SockAddr PMCs
17:51 Infinoid So it's not a big deal.
17:58 frzntoz joined #parrot
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18:19 Coke Working on the macport is one of the few chance I get to code in tcl!
18:19 chromatic I don't think it matters if we have holes in the ops file.
18:19 chromatic We can remove ops without renumbering.
18:20 Coke I could see doing a partial renumber before a stable release to squash any gaps that occurred post-release.
18:20 Coke post-last-stable-release, that is.
18:21 Coke holy curd, batman. RT now at 396 tickets.
18:28 NotFound Coke: Who won the prize for breaking the 400 barrier?
18:28 Coke NotFound: no clue; happened while I wasn't looking.
18:28 Coke now we'll have to get down to 300.
18:29 NotFound We need an automatic photo-finish system
18:29 Coke someone with icc installed could probably help us close 2 tickets.
18:29 chromatic That changes the outcome by observing it!
18:30 Coke can someone with install privs update the installed parrot on feather?
18:32 darbelo Hmm, more OpenBSD build problems. Could someone lend me a hand?
18:33 Coke possibly.
18:35 Coke 390 tickets. guess I had a stale copy.
18:35 rg notfound: that was probably kid51 last night
18:36 * Infinoid just closed out his pdd13pbc tickets and created TT #504
18:36 * Infinoid <-- doing his part to close out RT :)
18:37 Coke 388
18:38 rg darbelo: what's the problem?
18:38 purl SIR NO PROBLEM SIR!
18:38 Infinoid Coke: I'll update feather to parrot 1.0.0
18:39 Infinoid will "make install" cleanly overwrite the previous stuff?  Or do I have to go hunt down and remove that stuff first?
18:40 NotFound I'm thinking about doing the same for all debugger "whishlist" tickets
18:41 nopaste "darbelo" at 201.252.61.125 pasted "OpenBSD build failure" (25 lines) at http://nopaste.snit.ch/15970
18:41 darbelo That wasn't happening yesterday
18:43 darbelo I noticed cotto made some related changes inside config/gen/platform/ in r37741
18:43 rg that looks like a missing include
18:44 davidfetter joined #parrot
18:44 darbelo so right now I'm building r37740
18:44 * Coke takes/steals 20 RT tickets.
18:48 NotFound darbelo: I think I catch it. Wait a minute...
18:51 dalek parrot: r37749 | NotFound++ | trunk/config/gen/platform/generic/dl.c:
18:51 dalek parrot: [core] include dlfcn.h in generic/dl.c
18:51 dalek parrot: review: https://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/37749/
18:54 Topic for #parrotis now Parrot 1.0 Released | http://parrot.org | 385 RTs left!
18:54 Coke I'm taking some of the short, obvious keepers from RT and transitioning them to trac.
18:55 pmichaud Coke++
18:55 bsdz joined #parrot
18:55 Coke I just mention it so folks don't start transitioning /everything/ =-)
18:55 Infinoid RT #50212 has no end in sight, and don't have tuits for #51718.  Those are the only two I have left.
18:56 Coke if you don't have tuits, give up the ticket, i suppose.
18:56 Infinoid but kid51 so graciously gave it to me :P
18:57 bsdz hi, anyone know of any plans to ditch the json compiler? i want to use it in another HLL.
18:58 Coke no plans regarding json either way.
18:58 Coke if someone is actually USING it, I guess we'll keep it. =-)
18:59 Coke if you use it, I ask if you can help write more tests for it.
18:59 bsdz ok, i'll use it and will submit some tests specific to what i'm doing :)
18:59 Coke fair enough. =-)
19:00 Coke there are two rt's for that right now; I'll convert them to a single trac for you to hang patches off of.
19:02 Infinoid I need to move the installed parrot 0.9.1 out of the way to get a clean 1.0.0 build on feather.  Does anyone care?
19:02 PerlJam Infinoid: no way.  (I probably installed 0.9.1 in fact)
19:03 Infinoid No moving or no caring?
19:03 PerlJam no caring
19:03 Infinoid kthx
19:03 bsdz thanks Coke. i'll find them in trac later
19:12 bsdz Coke, there seems to be two JSON.pbcs. One in library that looks like it creates JSONs, the other in compilers that can parse them. Is that right?
19:13 Coke yes. compilers/json is for ``compling'' JSON into a PMC.
19:13 Coke JSON.pbc is for outputing JSON given an existing PMC.
19:13 Coke IIRC>
19:14 bsdz am i right in thinking that compiling JSONs is not a library thing
19:15 Coke I don't understand the question.
19:15 Infinoid Coke: parrot updated on feather
19:15 Coke Infinoid++
19:15 Infinoid the old version might still work as parrot-0.9.1
19:17 Coke hey, whoever is fixing old networking code; can you fix compilers/json/postalcodes.pir ?
19:18 bsdz i'm wondering how to load_bytecode the JSON pbc in my pir. If I do load_bytecode "JSON.pbc" i'll only be able to write JSONs. If i want to read JSONs I'll need to manually copy compilers/json/JSON.pbc to my oath an include it from there. I'm guessing?
19:19 Coke can't just include it from the installed path?
19:20 bsdz not sure. both have the same name
19:20 PerlJam Infinoid: Now we just need to get the parrot installation to actually work so that others can use it :)
19:20 Coke shouldn't matter.
19:21 NotFound $ find . -name "JSON.pbc"
19:21 NotFound ./runtime/parrot/library/Config/JSON.pbc
19:21 NotFound ./runtime/parrot/library/JSON.pbc
19:21 NotFound ./compilers/json/JSON.pbc
19:21 pinkyandthebrain joined #parrot
19:21 NotFound ETOOMUCHJSON
19:21 Coke or perhaps... it's not enough. =-)
19:21 bsdz perhaps would be better if they were renamed to JSONReader and JSONWriter or like
19:21 darbelo okay, r3774 works. Building r377
19:22 darbelo sorry, r37740 works. Building r37741 to confirm.
19:25 rg notfound: something also need to #include "parrot/has_header.h" for dl.c to work
19:26 pinkyandthebrain left #parrot
19:26 Coke bsdz; that's not a terrible idea.
19:26 Coke would probably require a deprecation cycle. open a ticket for milestone 1.5 ?
19:26 rg my guess would be config/gen/platform.pm needs to put it into platform.c
19:26 bsdz i can add a ticket to trac. should i also write a patch though?
19:27 rg or maybe just put it in dl.c
19:28 Infinoid bsdz: patches never hurt
19:28 bsdz okay leave it to me :)
19:29 darbelo Confirmed r37741 did it. RTLD_LAZY is defined in dlfcn.h which isn't included anymore.
19:36 rg why didn't putting the include back fix the build? no include for has_header.h has been removed
19:39 rg ah bad dependencies. it didn't rebuild platform.c
19:40 darbelo But shouldn't the inclusion in trunk/config/gen/config_h/feature_h.in be enough?
19:41 rg because it's built by configure.
19:41 * rg needs to learn more about parrot ;)
19:42 rg darbelo: fixed in r37749. the feature that would include dlfcn apparently isn't built.
19:43 * rg also wonders what's the connection between PARROT_HAS_BACKTRACE and dlfcn.h
19:46 chromatic Apparently dlfcn.h somehow defines DL_info, which the backtracing needs.
19:46 Coke msg particle: adding callgrind output to parrot would make an excellent SOC project.
19:46 purl Message for particle stored.
19:47 NotFound The backtrace use some features, if available, to show more detailed info
19:47 Coke wouldn't it BNI parrot_config had an option to dump everything?
19:48 Tene Coke: --dump ?
19:48 Tene That gives me 363 items
19:48 Tene is that missing something?
19:49 rg chromatic: ic. but dynamic loading needs it too, so putting it back in dl.c is the right thing to do. notfound++ :)
19:49 Coke Tene: WIBNI if parrot_config had a --help option? =-)
19:56 Coke Tene: there, now it does. whee.
19:56 Tene Coke++
19:57 darbelo Is there any particular parrot-person that should be contacted for SoC stuff?
19:57 Tene darbelo: particle AKA Jerry Gay, iirc
19:57 dalek parrot: r37750 | coke++ | trunk/tools/util/parrot-config.pir:
19:57 dalek parrot: [parrot_config] - use 'iter' opcode; add usage.
19:57 dalek parrot: review: https://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/37750/
19:59 rg but you didn't add if key == '--help' goto usage ;P
20:01 Coke rg: done.
20:01 Coke particle is the best person for GSOC parroty stuff, yes
20:02 Coke I am probably a distant third.
20:04 eternaleye joined #parrot
20:04 dalek parrot: r37751 | coke++ | trunk/tools/util/parrot-config.pir:
20:04 dalek parrot: Add the --help option I was complaining didn't exist.
20:04 dalek parrot: review: https://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/37751/
20:07 dalek rakudo: 00cd1fd | pmichaud++ | src/ (2 files):
20:07 dalek rakudo: Add perl versions of trim() to setting  (RT #64096).
20:07 dalek rakudo: Patch courtesy Cory Spencer <cspencer@sprocket.org>.
20:07 dalek rakudo: review: http://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/0​0cd1fd942b9ddb60d67562e368acff8975f013b
20:07 shorten dalek's url is at http://xrl.us/bempwu
20:07 dalek rakudo: a0c6e3d | pmichaud++ | src/ (2 files):
20:07 dalek rakudo: Add Perl 6 version of p5chop and p5chomp to setting (RT #64092).
20:07 dalek rakudo: Patch courtesy Cory Spencer <cspencer@sprocket.org>.
20:07 dalek rakudo: review: http://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/a​0c6e3d1bc0aa551eec303f0f0e5e2395fdb3f39
20:07 shorten dalek's url is at http://xrl.us/bempww
20:07 dalek rakudo: 3bbb1c4 | pmichaud++ | src/ (2 files):
20:07 dalek rakudo: Add Perl 6 versions of cis() and rand() to setting (RT #64108).
20:07 dalek rakudo: Patch courtesy Cory Spencer <cspencer@sprocket.org>.
20:07 dalek rakudo: review: http://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/3​bbb1c40262c1e7e8c8b50d1139a2177f153d47b
20:07 shorten dalek's url is at http://xrl.us/bempwy
20:07 dalek rakudo: 8af4574 | pmichaud++ | src/setting/Any-num.pm:
20:07 dalek rakudo: Clean up rand() and cis() from RT #64108 patch.
20:07 dalek rakudo: review: http://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/8​af457433eefb0de167e34db2d6fd3fe2de2815d
20:07 dalek rakudo: 5c07c7b | pmichaud++ | src/setting/Any-str.pm:
20:07 dalek rakudo: Use \x0a instead of \o12 (I find it easier to deal with hex).
20:07 shorten dalek's url is at http://xrl.us/bempw2
20:07 dalek rakudo: This patch may still have a problem in that it chomps only actual
20:07 dalek rakudo: newlines instead of using \n.
20:07 dalek rakudo: review: http://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/5​c07c7b70ba304464aac869dd7e1eb7b9dfab4b7
20:07 shorten dalek's url is at http://xrl.us/bempw4
20:07 rg coke++ (being consistent)++
20:08 fperrad joined #parrot
20:12 Coke macport commit in. should be live in an hour or so.
20:13 Infinoid *cue frankenstein theme music*
20:24 dalek rakudo: c3e5408 | pmichaud++ | t/spectest.data:
20:24 dalek rakudo: Update t/spectest.data with p5chop and p5chomp tests.
20:24 dalek rakudo: review: http://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/c​3e5408361e054686dee3bd47c064dcb7e0ebbc2
20:25 shorten dalek's url is at http://xrl.us/bempzk
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20:59 bsdz hi, anyone know how I can get parrot's builtin load_library search path? also is there a way to get parrot_config to dump all settings to the console?
20:59 pmichaud bsdz:  parrot_config --dump
21:00 bsdz thanks pmichaud. is there a pod for parrot_config?
21:00 pmichaud not that I know of.
21:00 pmichaud might look at the parrot_config source.
21:01 Tene Coke added a usage statement and a --help to parrot_config today
21:02 bsdz that's really handy. i knew it had everything i wanted to know but didn't know how to get it ;-)
21:04 Coke I had the same problem. =-)
21:04 eternaleye joined #parrot
21:05 bsdz hmm, will it have the load_library search path there? :-/
21:05 pmichaud I don't think it's in the config, no.
21:05 pmichaud I could be wrong about that.
21:05 pmichaud I don't remember seeing it there.
21:06 bsdz must admit nothing obviously looks like it.
21:07 bsdz hmm, I guess I should just assume it looks in current dir then under runtime/parrot/library.
21:10 Coke still no macport!
21:10 Coke SYNC DAMN YOU!
21:11 fperrad in PIR, interpinfo .INTERPINFO_RUNTIME_PREFIX gives the root of search path
21:12 bsdz thanks fperrad :)
21:12 bsdz :q
21:13 bsdz oops i guess that gives the game away - i'm using vi .
21:14 pmichaud I figured it was some weird smiley.
21:16 bsdz i hadn't thought of that - could be
21:21 fperrad today I work on language with an installed parrot, see r37747.
21:21 fperrad a Rakudo patch is available on http://parrot.privatepaste.com/500z2XLLsI
21:21 fperrad not completed, because @libparrot_shared@
21:21 fperrad I think we need a new variable @inst_libparrot_shared@
21:23 pmichaud I don't want to use the := form of makefile rules unless someone explains to me what they are.
21:23 GeJ joined #parrot
21:25 Infinoid := interpolates immediately, = defers (and possibly recurses)
21:25 pmichaud is that true for all make tools?
21:25 NotFound No
21:25 NotFound gnu make specific
21:26 pmichaud so what happens on a platform that isn't using gnu make?  Or is that now a requirement for Parrot?
21:26 Infinoid I hope not.
21:26 Coke I believe it's setup so that we use := if we can, and = if we can't.
21:26 pmichaud Parrot is setup that way?
21:26 pmichaud Rakudo isn't.
21:26 NotFound Will not be simpler to never use it?
21:26 fperrad with gmake :
21:26 Coke parrot, yes.
21:26 fperrad ':=' is simply expanded variable
21:27 fperrad '=' is recursely expanded variable
21:27 fperrad if you are not using gmake, configure replaces all ':=' by '='
21:27 Infinoid Oh, right.  Configure.PL does a s/// to strip the colons in the case where the build architecture can't handle it
21:27 pmichaud I'm not using Parrot's Configure.PL
21:27 Coke NotFound: Yes, it would be simpler to never use it.
21:27 Infinoid simpler++
21:27 pmichaud Rakudo doesn't want to go through gmake-specific items.
21:27 Coke I'm not sure adding the complexity to the build process is a net win.
21:27 NotFound fperrad: For some reason other than have more things to test and that can fail in some platforms?
21:28 pmichaud not unless there's a big win, which someone would have to explain to me.  I never understood why Parrot switched to using the := .
21:28 pmichaud not to mention the mk_language_shell generator.
21:28 chromatic I don't think it's a requirement.  Certainly a few porters bring it up every time a GNUism sneaks in.
21:28 Infinoid pmichaud: I don't think there is a big win.  := has a lot of cultural inertia in the linux world, that's all I know.
21:29 pmichaud okay.  Rakudo votes against the := in Makefile rules.
21:29 NotFound If we must take care that it always can be replaces by = , there is no reason to use it.
21:30 NotFound Just replace it, and magically we test that it can be replaced X-)
21:30 pmichaud I'm also not a fan of splitting Rakudo's Makefile into multiple Makefiles
21:30 pmichaud I can be convinced on that one, though.
21:30 pmichaud (er, "more easily" convinced)
21:31 NotFound Recursive make is evil, some people says
21:31 pmichaud I agree -- I like that Rakudo doesn't depend on recursive make.
21:31 Infinoid Recursive make is hell when you want a working -j
21:31 NotFound recursive make is just not make at all
21:32 Infinoid That's very zen.
21:32 NotFound Euro zent X-)
21:37 Tene recursive make is bad news...
21:46 Coke I would be happy to get rid of the various makefiles in parrot.
21:46 Coke not personally, but to have them gotten rid of. =-)
21:46 Coke I tried at one point to start putting compilers/ into the top level makefile, e.g.
21:46 Coke WOOT.
21:47 Coke sudo port -d selfupdate && port list parrot
21:47 Coke parrot                         @1.0.0          lang/parrot
21:51 * Coke announces to list.
21:52 Infinoid Coke++
21:53 fperrad pmichaud, I notice your wishes
21:53 fperrad one makefile is easy if I use dynpmc.pl & dynoplibs.pl, but there are deprecated
21:54 pmichaud if the new tools require separate makefiles, I think they're misdesigned.
21:55 Coke ISTR the makefiles to replace those were to be generated; you could always include them. (or we could update the tools to generate makefile snippets for inclusion at config time.)
21:55 pmichaud I don't see the separate makefiles in the diff
21:55 Coke but allison was driving that.
21:55 GeJ Good morning everyone
21:56 fperrad in fact, there are no new tools, just makefiles
21:57 pmichaud can I see what the makefiles look like?
21:57 TiMBuS joined #parrot
21:57 Coke (ah. then I suppose you could just incorporate those makefiles into your makefile)
21:57 pmichaud (the templates are what I'm looking for)
22:03 pmichaud nm, I'm assuming it's the templates that are in mk_language_shell
22:03 fperrad new patch at http://parrot.privatepaste.com/470oM5NPht
22:03 fperrad now with new files
22:04 fperrad git diff doesn't include new file
22:04 pmichaud what are the #IF(...):  lines?
22:04 pmichaud are those gmake specific also?
22:05 fperrad no gmake, parrot tools specific
22:05 pmichaud so my makefiles have to be processed through parrot to work?
22:07 pmichaud I guess I should be clear on this:  I fundamentally disagree with the direction that parrot's build system has taken over the past 6 weeks.  I don't want Rakudo's build system to have to follow that direction.
22:07 pmichaud and I'd prefer that Rakudo's build system not depend on a bunch of parrot-specific tools.
22:07 pmichaud (e.g., to generate Makefiles)
22:12 fperrad I try to work with tools supplied (and installed) by Parrot.
22:12 fperrad I think it's important that most languages over parrot use same tools.
22:12 pmichaud Rakudo was using those tools, until six weeks ago when others started changing the tools.
22:12 pmichaud indeed, the tools were based on Rakudo.
22:15 pmichaud (e.g., mk_language_shell)
22:15 pmichaud afk for a bit # errands
22:25 eternaleye joined #parrot
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22:28 rg coke: you usually have one Makefile per directory. parrot is working against make by building stuff from the main makefile
22:30 chromatic One Makefile per directory is hateful.
22:31 rg why? i believe that's how make was designed to work
22:31 chromatic Make was designed to handle dependencies.
22:31 chromatic If you split up your project's dependencies to where Make can't see them (across process boundaries), Make can't handle dependencies.
22:33 Tene rg: that's very much not how make was designed to work.
22:34 Tene http://miller.emu.id.au/pmiller/books/rmch/ is a standard document on this
22:35 chromatic Make's utter lack of code inclusion (really, it's worse than JavaScript!) makes recursive Makefiles tempting.
22:35 rg ok, let me put it another way. make has a lot of features that help you if your files are in one directory
22:35 rg you're right that its primary design is to manage dependencies
22:36 davidfetter what's the down side of recursive makefiles?
22:37 chromatic You lose dependency information.
22:37 davidfetter k
22:37 rg i guess it shows its age with parallel builds
22:38 chromatic Not just that, but you have to execute *every* recursive Makefile even if none of their targets need rebuilding, because you don't have any information about them.
22:39 confound rg: tene's link is well worth reading
22:40 davidfetter how big a PITA would adding some kind of code inclusion mechanism be?
22:41 davidfetter are we talking SoC project? get 5 geniuses on it as their full-time job for a year?
22:41 confound it has a code inclusion mechanism, it just sucks
22:42 chromatic Sort of like it has a "Did my dependencies get modified?" mechanism?  (It *barely* does.)
22:42 chromatic Given that Make is the poster example of why backwards compatibility is wrong, I'm not sure it'll ever get fixed.
22:43 * rg schedules some time to read the paper
22:44 darbelo It also is so widespread it will never go away either.
22:45 confound and then everyone will keep using it because it's everywhere
22:46 Infinoid But projects slowly drift away from using recursive makefiles, which is good enough
22:46 chromatic Yeah, you can't ever fix it because it has 12 (!) users!
22:47 darbelo It's everywhere, and every "where" has its very own set of incompatible extensions. Whee!
22:48 Infinoid When in doubt, copy the linux kernel Makefiles.  Buildroot did.
22:50 davidfetter oops. mischan
22:50 davidfetter chromatic, how about if it has 12! users?
22:51 moritz davidfetter: I had the same idea ;-)
22:51 moritz but it seems a bit high a number ;-)
22:51 pmichaud Rakudo has managed to avoid recursive makefiles, I see no reason for us to drift towards a bad design only to have to figure out how to extricate ourselves from it later.
22:53 davidfetter yeah, well, there's lots of people learning to code from an early age :)
22:54 moritz like, 1/10th of the entire population? ;-)
22:55 davidfetter who knows?
22:55 NotFound who make?
22:55 purl make is awful really
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