Camelia, the Perl 6 bug

IRC log for #parrot, 2009-04-30

Parrot | source cross referenced

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:00 Infinoid Any errors before that?
00:00 Infinoid I dunno msvc terribly well, but it's the first logical question to ask :)
00:09 AndyA joined #parrot
00:12 whiteknight nope, no errors that I saw before that
00:13 whiteknight nopaste?
00:13 clunker3 http://pasta.test-smoke.org/ or http://paste.husk.org/ or http://nopaste.snit.ch:8001/ or http://rafb.net/paste or http://poundperl.pastebin.com/ or http://paste.scsys.co.uk/
00:13 purl nopaste is at http://nopaste.snit.ch/ (ask TonyC for new channels) or http://rafb.net/paste or http://poundperl.pastebin.com/ or http://paste.scsys.co.uk/ or App::Nopaste or tools/dev/nopaste.pl or at http://www.extpaste.com/ or http://paste.scsys.co.uk (for #catalyst, #dbix-class, #moose  and others)
00:14 nopaste "Whiteknight" at 69.249.200.13 pasted "Configure failure on Win64" (17 lines) at http://nopaste.snit.ch/16451
00:14 whiteknight I wouldn't even be using msvc if I didn't have to, but it's the only free 64-bit compiler that I can find for windows
00:15 whiteknight gcc and mingw don't support it yet that I am aware of
00:23 Infinoid oh, so this isn't during make, it's failing to configure
00:24 whiteknight right, configure-time
00:24 Infinoid well, there are reports in PLATFORMS for win64 with both mingw and msvc
00:24 Infinoid so in theory, at some point this worked
00:24 whiteknight well, mingw is 32-bit only on Windows, so those reports are probably inaccurate
00:25 Infinoid hmm, maybe they compiled 32 bit binaries under a 64 bit OS, you mean?
00:25 whiteknight most msvc is 32-bit too, it took me a long time to find a 64-bit compiler
00:25 whiteknight yes, that's what I think happened
00:25 whiteknight that's what I used to be doing, unwittingly
00:25 Infinoid well, Configure.pl does have arguments like --verbose-step and --verbose=2
00:25 Coke msg allison - for me, 'make' fails trying to parse something that loads the dynops, so that's my test.
00:25 purl Message for allison stored.
00:25 whiteknight also explains why there are no Win64 smolder reports, because people on win64 systems are actually building 32-bit binaries
00:26 Infinoid --verbose=2 should show you what command line it tried to run
00:26 Coke msg allison - ah, misread. yes. if you build pir, you're using the opcodes, pretty much. the script "error" should explicitly call tcl_error, though, if you like.
00:26 purl Message for allison stored.
00:27 nopaste "Whiteknight" at 69.249.200.13 pasted "verbose configure output for Infinoid++" (30 lines) at http://nopaste.snit.ch/16452
00:27 whiteknight yeah, so that's a crazy output
00:28 Infinoid "__security_check_cookie
00:28 Infinoid "?
00:28 purl rumour has it " is the quote char, not `
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00:28 chromatic I thought he was assistant TO the project manager.
00:29 Coke (tcl builds) not exactly.
00:30 whiteknight Infinoid: Exactly, I've never heard of that function before
00:30 Infinoid whiteknight: from googling, it looks like it's used somewhere in the CRT or linker stub stuff that the compiler adds to your binaries.
00:31 Infinoid which rev of MSVC is this?  I'm not sure if I should tell you to upgrade or downgrade, but that seems to be the conclusion of most of the google hits.
00:32 whiteknight SDK 14, compiler 14.00.40310.41 for AMD64
00:32 whiteknight I think this is the most recent version, but I cant downgrade because I need the 64bit compiler which I can't find in previous versions
00:33 Infinoid well, hmm
00:33 Infinoid does a hello world fare any better?
00:34 whiteknight nope
00:35 Infinoid See if removing any of these from the linker line help: kernel32.lib ws2_32.lib msvcrt.lib oldnames.lib
00:35 Infinoid Last time I used win32 was a long time ago, but I remember there being a lot of redundant fluff in the libraries we linked against.
00:36 Infinoid s/win32/msvc/
00:36 whiteknight okay, I think I got it
00:36 whiteknight I linked in the library bufferoverflowU.lib, which is apparently necessary now
00:36 whiteknight because microsoft is trying to protect me from my buffer overflow mistakes
00:37 Infinoid Ohnoes.
00:37 Infinoid Those evil, evil coders.
00:37 whiteknight no we just need to see how badly the build goes
00:38 whiteknight answer: badly
00:38 cotto darbelo, pong
00:38 Infinoid particle++ once told me that it fails horribly because win64 is LLP64
00:38 whiteknight LLP64?
00:39 Infinoid purl, LLP64 is http://www.unix.org/version2/whatsnew/lp64_wp.html
00:39 purl OK, Infinoid.
00:40 whiteknight okay, the build is failing because it can't find sal.h
00:40 darbelo cotto. Is there any 'best practices' document for dynpmc writing?
00:40 whiteknight i never heard of that one either
00:40 Infinoid I'm not sure if LLP64 was the exact one.  But I remember differences in int sizes being the reason why linux/64 worked fine and win64 needing a lot of work.
00:40 cotto darbelo, they're mostly identical to normal pmcs.
00:41 Infinoid sal.h is http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-u​s/library/ms235402(VS.80).aspx
00:41 shorten Infinoid's url is at http://xrl.us/beqwg6
00:41 darbelo Is there any 'best practices' document for PMC writing?
00:41 whiteknight darbelo: no
00:41 whiteknight but it's probably something that should be written
00:41 cotto darbelo, no apart from existing code
00:41 cotto s/no/not/
00:42 Infinoid Did we get rid of the unionval from PMCs?  If so, docs/pmc.pod should be updated
00:42 cotto yup
00:42 darbelo Existing code documents 'existing practices' :)
00:43 whiteknight existing code documents 'previously existing practices'
00:43 cotto whiteknight, I'll finish updating that tonight.
00:44 whiteknight cotto: w00t
00:44 cotto I wish documentation were as fun as it is important.
00:45 whiteknight I actually have a lot of fun with documentation, I've certainly written a lot of it over the years
00:45 cotto Hmmm.  Maybe it's just a mindset issue.
00:45 whiteknight I probably need to write more for parrot, however
00:46 whiteknight probably
00:46 purl Really? Probably? Are you Certain it's not certain? Are you sure it's unsure? I think you need to look harder. Because I'm an asshole.
00:46 cotto being honest doesn't make it ok, purl--
00:46 purl cotto: what?
00:47 cotto stupid auto-karma-filtering bot
00:47 cotto forget probably
00:47 purl cotto: I forgot probably
00:47 cotto probably
00:48 darbelo I have, right now, "ATTR decQuad number;". Is it sane to keep the whole union there or should that be "ATTR decQuad *number" and keep just a pointer?
00:48 cotto is that in svn?
00:49 cotto (and the next question is obvious)
00:49 darbelo I think so.
00:49 cotto doesn't look like it
00:51 cotto The current practice is to only store primitive types or pointers in ATTRs.
00:51 cotto If what you have now works, it'd mean fewer mallocs.
00:54 darbelo But it also means that the accesor macros will do struct assignment, and to get a pointer you'll need to use Parrot_DecNum_attributes direcly.
00:54 darbelo which strikes me as a 'not a best practice'.
00:55 cotto If it were me I'd just use a pointer.
00:56 darbelo I'll add the * and commit then.
00:56 darbelo Be back in a few hours .
00:56 cotto k
00:58 darbelo commit went in with pointers.
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02:42 kid51 msg allison Does the revised patch submitted by gerd in https://trac.parrot.org/parrot/ticket/509 address the issues you raised in rejecting the first version of the patch?  Thanks.
02:42 purl Message for allison stored.
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02:49 Coke .
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03:41 darbelo Is there anything in parrot_config that tells me if I am on a big/little endian system?
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03:47 cotto darbelo, bigendian
03:48 cotto you can look at what's in it in config_lib.pasm
03:48 cotto ooc, why do you need to know?
03:49 darbelo Have to define DECLITEND for decNumber.
03:51 hcles hello bacek!
03:51 bacek_ hello hcles
04:05 Tene There's something pleasant about implementing scheme on PCT for the fourth time.
04:06 Tene hello hcles!
04:06 hcles Hello all round!
04:06 darbelo Maybe it's all the mistakes you know you are not making.
04:07 Tene :)
04:11 cotto Tene, did you clobber your implementation again?
04:12 Tene cotto: No, but I figured it would be fun to do again.
04:12 Tene To be familiar with all the steps for my presentation.
04:12 Tene also, doing it with .ast instead of $()
04:13 cotto I like that change.  It makes actions less opaque.
04:14 Tene nodnod
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04:15 darbelo cotto: What is the instantiate VTABLE for? All the pmcs I can recall looking at have a "dummy" one.
04:17 cotto darbelo, I think it's used to make an instance of a class.
04:18 cotto I don't think it makes sense for most PMCs.
04:20 cotto see src/pmc/class.pmc for a non-dummy implementation
04:21 darbelo Just checking, I'm starting to fill out the VTABLES on decnum based on what the GMP Big* PMCs do.
04:21 cotto (but you don't need to worry about it)
04:22 cotto I highly recommend compiling early and often, even if you don't expect the code to be usable (or fully compile).
04:23 darbelo I'll keep it in mind. Now that the makefiles half-work it's easier to do that.
04:24 cotto yeah.  it's a good motivation to keep usable makefiles around (which makes it easier for other people to jump in if needed)
04:24 Coke darbelo: do they not have one or do they just get default's?
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04:25 darbelo Coke: who not have a what?
04:27 cotto darbelo, do you know how VTABLE function inheritance works?
04:27 cotto nm.  it's probably obvious
04:29 darbelo Coke: are you talking pmcs or makefiles?
04:40 darbelo Hmm. Ran into th first decNumber shortcoming.
04:41 cotto ?
04:44 darbelo Iwas looking at doing set_integer_native(), but decNumber only handles int32_t.
04:45 darbelo Parrot's integers can be wider on 64-bit arches.
04:46 cotto Yeah, but you can convert to a STRING in that case.  It's not optimal, but it'll get the job done.
04:52 darbelo Sure. It's just "You can handle a million digits and you choke on a lousy int64_t ?"
04:52 darbelo Kinda disappointing.
04:53 cotto agreed
04:54 darbelo Oh, do the makefiles work for you?
04:55 cotto They don't build the decNumber files, but they seem to work for the PMC.
04:56 darbelo I'm working on a Makefile.in for src/
04:56 cotto It might be cleaner to put decNumber's files in their own dir under src
04:58 darbelo Yes.
04:58 cotto It's amazing how easy it is to get distracted while trying to write documentation.
04:58 Infinoid Yeah.  Shiny things just leap out at you.
05:01 * cotto minimizes all windows in all other virtual desktops.
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05:28 dukeleto cotto: good idea
05:28 purl dukeleto: Good Idea: Giving your dog a bath. Bad Idea: Having your dog dry-cleaned.
05:28 dukeleto purl, bad idea?
05:28 purl dukeleto: i don't know
05:29 darbelo purl likes animaniacs, apparently.
05:29 purl darbelo: what?
05:36 cotto It's like closing them, only they're still there.
05:36 cotto Does anyone want to proofread some documentation for me?
05:37 darbelo I can do it.
05:37 nopaste "cotto" at 96.26.202.243 pasted "draft update of docs/pmc.pod" (131 lines) at http://nopaste.snit.ch/16453
05:38 cotto Just check that it makes sense is understandable.  I did fact-checking as I wrote it, so all the information should be accurate.
05:38 cotto feel free to nopaste an updated version if you find anything to fix
05:38 cotto darbelo++
05:40 darbelo UnionVal is an obselete
05:40 cotto yup
05:40 darbelo should be obsolete
05:40 cotto fix'd
05:42 darbelo on "=item * The PMC needs metadata."C<need_ext>
05:43 darbelo what happens if you try to to add an attribute to a PMC declared without C<need_ext>
05:43 darbelo ?
05:44 darbelo Jus asking, really.
05:45 cotto The PMC_EXT will be added to the PMC, its _metadata populated and the attribute added to the _metadata.
05:45 cotto basically, Parrot dtrt
05:46 darbelo OK.
05:48 darbelo In "=head2 ATTRs and PMC_data()":
05:49 darbelo Shouldn't C<Parrot_Integer_attributes> be C<Parrot_x_attributes>?
05:49 darbelo Or is it meant as an example?
05:50 cotto I've fixed that to make it clearer how the name is generated.
05:50 nopaste "cotto" at 96.26.202.243 pasted "draft update v2 of docs/pmc.pod" (129 lines) at http://nopaste.snit.ch/16454
05:51 cotto There are also some pod changes.
05:51 cotto nothing major
06:02 cotto shower time.  lmk if you find anything else.  If not I'll commit in an hour or so.
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06:15 darbelo Looks good to me, but I'm not a native english speaker so I might have missed something.
06:21 cotto darbelo++ for input
06:27 darbelo cotto++ for documentation
06:29 * cotto is not excited about the (at least) two additional pdds that'll need to be updated.
06:34 darbelo don't worry I'm sure you'll do a great job :)
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06:36 darbelo New commit for decnum-dynpmcs. I *think* I'm done with the build infrastructure for now, let me know if it doesn't work for you.
06:38 moritz where does the repository live?
06:38 moritz and why don't we have report bot in here? ;-)
06:39 darbelo google code.
06:39 purl google code is, like, http://code.google.com, run by Chris DiBona
06:40 moritz Infinoid: care t tell dalek to track http://code.google.com/p/decnum-dynpmcs/ ?
06:40 darbelo "svn checkout http://decnum-dynpmcs.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/ working-copy" will give you a read-only copy
06:41 cotto darbelo, trying now...
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06:43 cotto darbelo, not quite.  after make realclean (with the old makefile) and perl Configure.pl, the new Makefile doesn't think anything needs to be built
06:43 darbelo from the top-level?
06:44 cotto yup
06:44 dalek parrot: r38413 | cotto++ | trunk/docs/pmc.pod:
06:44 dalek parrot: [docs] rewrite pmc.pod now that the UnionVal is history
06:44 dalek parrot: review: https://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/38413/
06:44 cotto in src/decNumber and src/pmc it seems to work
06:47 darbelo "make realclean -> perl Configure.pl -> make " builds nothing for you?
06:50 cotto nope
06:50 cotto make: `build' is up to date.
06:51 darbelo what sstem are you on?
06:52 darbelo s/sstem/system/
06:52 cotto ubuntu Hardy i386
07:02 nopaste "darbelo" at 190.3.154.38 pasted "cotto: See if this helps" (31 lines) at http://nopaste.snit.ch/16455
07:04 cotto darbelo, that works
07:04 darbelo I hate make.
07:04 cotto How odd.  "build" must be special.
07:05 darbelo build is a directory.
07:07 darbelo it checks to see if the 'build' directory has changed, instead of going to the 'build' target.
07:08 cotto of course
07:08 cotto silly make
07:09 darbelo but I'm on xubuntu intrepid and it works either way.
07:09 darbelo I hate make.
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07:10 cotto h8
07:11 darbelo Ah well, do we have a better name than 'compile' or 'the-target-formerly-known-as-build' ?
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07:12 darbelo Since 'compile' is a bit of a misnomer there.
07:14 cotto 'pmc'?
07:14 cotto also, the Makefile doesn't appear to check the timestamps on the right files.
07:14 cotto make && make builds the same files twice
07:15 cotto (which is a better failure mode than not building often enough, but still incorrect)
07:15 darbelo Make hates me back. It seems.
07:17 cotto better to deal with it now
07:17 moritz for gnu make you could say '.PHONY build'
07:17 moritz but i don't think that's portable
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08:25 darbelo ok, if r10 doesn't solve then it won't get solved today. I've had enough make for this week.
08:26 moritz has the program already started officialy?
08:26 moritz or is it still "community bonding" time?
08:28 darbelo Bonding. May 23 is the 'start' date.
08:29 cotto although starting during the bonding period is fine
08:29 moritz sure
08:30 cotto darbelo, looks like that solves it
08:30 darbelo Until I test it on BSD again :)
08:32 darbelo Oh crap. I don't even want to guess what could happen on windows with this.
08:35 cotto first make it work somewhere, then everywhere
08:36 cotto we've got some guys on windows around here who could help
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08:39 darbelo Now that you mention it. What is everywhere this days?
08:40 darbelo Various Linux, *BSD, Windows, Solaris, OS X are the 'popular' stuff
08:41 darbelo is anyone building parrot on more obscure systems?
08:41 moritz isn't there a PLATFORMS file in parrot?
08:41 cotto we had someone build on aix near the end of '08
08:42 cotto PLATFORMS is a good place to look
08:42 cotto for that kind of information
08:44 darbelo There is some stuff missing there.
08:45 darbelo aix was built on '20080510'
08:45 cotto oh.  I misremembered
08:49 darbelo There is no OpenBSD, for which there are smoke reports passing all tests.
08:51 darbelo Stuff like that. It look outdated.
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08:55 cotto It depends on manual updates.
08:55 cotto something automated would be smarter
09:00 darbelo Maybe based on smolder. 100% => Supported.
09:09 darbelo Enough rambling for today.
09:09 darbelo Sleep time.
09:13 cotto night
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10:08 bacek good evening
10:08 bacek Did I missed something crucial?
10:11 cotto nafaik
10:13 bacek good-good.
10:16 bacek bah... pmc2c generates a lot of useless crap... I can't even use it as reference implementation :(
10:16 bacek Who can explain why PMC's VTABLE methods declared PARROT_EXPORT?
10:28 cotto What happens if you remove it?
10:29 cotto This is as good a time as any to see what we really need.
10:32 bacek cotto: nothing. Everything just works.
10:32 cotto orly
10:33 bacek Noone should invoke those functions directly.
10:33 cotto I'd mention it at #ps, but that's what I'd expect since it's all function pointers.
10:33 bacek Even inside parrot they called thru vtable pointer
10:34 bacek And all generated *_ro_* functions are useless. Cause they can be replaced by *_ro_default_*
10:35 bacek cotto: if you'll check pmc_undef.h there is a LOT of functions marked as PARROT_EXPORT. One problem - they doesn't exists...
10:37 cotto It seems like such a nice virtual machine until you dig into it a little.
10:38 bacek yeah...
10:38 bacek Parrot is badly broken. OTOH it's fixable :)
10:39 cotto What's an example function?
10:39 cotto a lot are useless stubs, but I'm not seeing any undefined ones
10:42 bacek cotto: (revoking sentence about non-existed functions) Looks like I messed with different header...
10:44 cotto I look forward to a Parrot where such things are improbably, although it may be fictitious.
10:54 cotto s/bly/ble/
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11:20 kid51 Smolder server down again?  Could not upload report to Smolder at http://smolder.plusthree.com
11:20 kid51 HTTP CODE: 500 (Internal Server Error)
11:20 kid51 make: *** [smolder_coretest] Error 9
11:20 kid51 ping smolder.plusthree.com
11:20 kid51 PING smolder.plusthree.com (70.42.42.150): 56 data bytes
11:20 kid51 ^C
11:20 kid51 --- smolder.plusthree.com ping statistics ---
11:20 kid51 65 packets transmitted, 0 packets received, 100% packet loss
11:21 purl 10 packets transmitted, 0 received, +7 errors, 100% packet loss, time 9008ms
11:22 dalek parrot: r38414 | jkeenan++ | trunk (7 files):
11:22 dalek parrot: Applying patch supplied by bsdz in https://trac.parrot.org/parrot/ticket/577:  add '--no-line-directives' switch to Configure.pl.
11:22 dalek parrot: review: https://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/38414/
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11:41 bacek Another stupid question - how I can make readonly pmc?
12:14 Coke update the vtables to disable all the setters?
12:14 Coke there is src/dynpmc/rotest.pmc, for whatever that's worth (it's not a great example)
12:20 Infinoid bacek: it's not a stupid question.  there are some readonly variants for some pmcs, but that code has never made much sense to me
12:21 Coke there is no switch you can flip to say "now you're readonly", as I understand it.
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12:23 Infinoid There is a VTABLE_IS_CONST_FLAG bit, and VTABLE_HAS_CONST_TOO and VTABLE_HAS_READONLY_FLAG bits.  They don't appear to mean the same thing
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15:46 Coke bah. I can build from an installed parrot or not, but not both.
15:47 Coke (the prefix of "inst" for some parrot_config vars is borken.
15:49 Coke ... and more besides. bother.
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16:18 * Coke blows up parrot.
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16:31 Coke *handle = Parrot_dlopen(path->strstart); ... tell me that's safe. :|
16:34 Coke it's not safe to assume that a strings strstart contains a valid c string, is it?
16:34 * rg doesn't think so
16:34 jonathan No.
16:35 jonathan It may have a null byte in there.
16:36 Coke src/dynext.c abuses this heavily.
16:36 Coke (that is, more than once.)
16:36 jonathan :-(
16:36 jonathan Mucking with strstart is usually wrong.
16:40 Coke opened a ticket.
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16:56 Coke anyone with darwin that isn't 10.4/intel?
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17:50 pmichaud Tene: ping
17:50 pmichaud actually, I have to leave for a bit, so...
17:51 pmichaud message Tene  I have most of the things needed for .HLL in the master branch -- I just want to move the 'parrot'-specific stuff into their own set of files (to be included at the bottom of perl6.pir).  I should have that shortly.  Then we can start playing with .HLL in master.
17:51 purl Message for tene stored.
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18:08 dalek partcl: r340 | wcoleda++ | trunk/CREDITS:
18:08 dalek partcl: - add christoph
18:08 dalek partcl: - alpha sort
18:08 dalek partcl: review: http://code.google.com/p/p​artcl/source/detail?r=340
18:14 Infinoid I'm thinking about how dalek should map source control usernames to karma points
18:15 Infinoid I think it's going to end up being a huge lookup table, which I don't really want to manage myself
18:15 Infinoid So, is it ok if it just parses some special page from the parrot wiki?  That way people can update it themselves.
18:18 Infinoid I'd make it poll the page once an hour to refresh its list, or something along those lines.
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18:20 cotto Infinoid, maybe a special file in svn?
18:21 Infinoid That's fine too.  Anything which can be directly linked should be easy to poll.  Which svn?
18:22 Infinoid In theory, the parrot svn is the only one which shouldn't need any aliasing.
18:23 particle Infinoid: can we update dalek's lookup table from here?
18:23 Infinoid hmm.  maybe it should just search through CREDITS?
18:23 Infinoid particle: We could do that
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18:24 particle /msg dalek karma particle for pmichaud cotto infinoid ...
18:24 particle :)
18:24 Infinoid heh
18:24 cotto +1 for CREDITS, since it already exists and has a well-defined format
18:25 cotto (and it'll prevent sneaky stuff like particle's idea)
18:25 particle well, it'll make the sneaky stuff public
18:25 Infinoid ok.  We might need to add an "A.K.A." attribute type so the Coke listing knows he's also called "wcoleda"
18:25 Infinoid if that doesn't already exist
18:25 particle don't spend too much time on fixing karma
18:26 particle it's better spent on fixing bytecode :)
18:26 cotto A: isn't used
18:26 particle in the linux credits format, A is unused?
18:26 Tene purl: msg pmichaud Great!  With any luck, I'll have some time to work on it tonight, if I can get my PCT presentation done before that.
18:26 purl Message for pmichaud stored.
18:26 cotto in CREDITS it isn't
18:27 Infinoid karma is just one of the things in my list of dalek fixes, which is what I'm working on now
18:27 purl is just one of the things in my list of dalek fixes, which is what i'm working on now has neutral karma
18:27 Infinoid starting with the test suite.
18:28 Infinoid so by asking this kind of stuff, I'm really just planning ahead.  Thanks, guys
18:28 cotto (Mark Glines)++
18:28 cotto heh heh
18:30 Infinoid Whatever I do won't be retroactive, unless someone gives me commit access to purl.
18:30 particle (test suite)++
18:30 particle is the bot in a public repo yet?
18:31 particle i'd love a commit bit
18:32 Util In the Parrot CREDITS file, (U) is "subversion username"
18:32 Util But you need a different field for "IRC nick"?
18:32 Infinoid the bot is just an unpack of the botnix tarball, and it's diakopter++'s beast
18:32 particle so A could be Aliases
18:32 Infinoid the rss parsers sort of overlay over that; I've been thinking of throwing them on github
18:33 Infinoid when I do, I'll let you know and give you access.
18:34 Util (I) for IRC Nick would leave Aliases for future criminal^Wunderground contributors :)
18:36 Util What is karma used for here?
18:36 cotto used?
18:36 purl used is my best bet for this price. new is about $300+ each
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18:39 Util Does the amount of anyone karma (that the bot keeps track of) affect anything, like (for example) who gets Ops, or who the bots obey?
18:39 Util s/anyone/anyone's/
18:41 Util karma Util
18:41 purl util has karma of 60
18:41 Util karma util
18:41 purl util has karma of 60
18:44 particle1 humans get ops
18:44 particle1 karma is only for vanity
18:44 purl is only for vanity has neutral karma
18:46 Infinoid Util: Aliases is exactly what we need, though.  Dalek already knows that Coke is Coke, but it doesn't know that wcoleda is also Coke
18:48 Util particle1 & Infinoid: OK, thanks!
19:00 TimToady karma?
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20:42 Coke wcoleda?
20:42 Coke wcoleda is also Coke
20:53 cotto wcoleda?
20:53 purl hmmm... wcoleda is Coke
21:03 particle joined #parrot
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21:28 bacek good morning people of past :)
21:28 * masak revels in the past
21:29 darbelo I'm not PAST, the parser errors out on me ;)
21:48 cotto bacek++ #pmc cleanup suggestions
21:56 cotto bacek, the header generator acts strangely with src/pmc/integer.pmc
22:00 nopaste "cotto" at 96.26.202.243 pasted "minimal pmc that causes pmc_pct's header generator to choke" (3 lines) at http://nopaste.snit.ch/16460
22:05 bacek cotto: try add ? after <c_arguments> in <c_signature>
22:06 bacek cotto: we need more tests...
22:08 particle joined #parrot
22:09 cotto bacek, that fixes it
22:09 cotto I'll add a test and commit
22:10 bacek cotto: ok, thanks
22:13 cotto done
22:13 dalek parrot: r38415 | cotto++ | branches/pmc_pct/compilers/pmc (3 files):
22:13 dalek parrot: [grammar] handle empty function args
22:13 dalek parrot: review: https://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/38415/
22:13 * bacek thinks that referencing generated header from system header is really bad idea...
22:14 bacek PMC_cont in include/parrot/sub.h...
22:15 pmichaud bacek: we have to have PARROT_EXPORT on many of those functions or they don't compile properly under Windows
22:15 pmichaud (TT #631)
22:15 pmichaud at least, that's what I've been told.
22:16 bacek pmichaud: it's weird...
22:17 bacek but we can try to remove signatures from header files.
22:17 pmichaud agreed, but apparently the linker on some windows compilers won't find the symbols unless they're exported.
22:17 bacek VC6?
22:17 purl somebody said VC6 was better than vc5
22:17 gryphon joined #parrot
22:17 pmichaud I don't know the exact details.
22:17 bacek ok. I'll try to find more information.
22:19 jonathan Please don't break Parrot on Win32... :-)
22:20 bacek jonathan: why not? :)
22:20 jonathan Because I don't want to have to revert anothr patch? ;-)
22:20 jonathan It's not just VC 6 though.
22:20 jonathan It's all Visual C++
22:21 jonathan There is no catch-all "just export everything" flag.
22:21 jonathan So everything that needs to be exported has gotta be labelled. :-(
22:22 bacek jonathan: can you try compile some pmc without signatures in header file? E.g. "clean" pmc_undef.h?
22:23 jonathan bacek: You mean just remove the lines in there?
22:23 bacek jonathan: yes
22:25 cotto If it ends up breaking the build, we should add a note to whatever generates that code.
22:26 jonathan bacek: I'm doing it for ResizablePMCArray rather than Undef.
22:27 jonathan Will have you an answer shortly...
22:27 jonathan I suspect it might not make the Parrot build itself fail (though it may), but IIRC it may be that any dynpmc that relies on inheriting from RPA might explode.
22:27 jonathan oh no
22:27 jonathan Parrot build breaks.
22:28 jonathan src\pmc\multisub.c(973) : error C2065: 'Parrot_ResizablePMCArray_clone' : undeclared identifier
22:28 jonathan bacek: Or did you mean just remove PARROT_EXPORT?
22:30 jonathan bacek: ah, that won't fly, because then we'd need to remove all the PARROT_EXPORT in the .c file too or we get an inconsistent linkage error.
22:31 cotto bacek, in body_part in actions.pm, what's the difference between $m and $m.name?
22:31 rg bacek: i think it would be preferable if you got your branch in a state where the windows people could test it
22:31 jonathan bacek: Anyways, I remember putting a bunch of that stuff in place, and can't imagine I woulda gone through the pain of doing so just for the fun of it. So I suspect there's a reason. :-)
22:32 jonathan However, it was 3-4 years ago, so don't ask me what the reason was. :-)
22:32 bacek cotto: $m is whole function. $m.name just name.
22:32 bacek jonathan: fair enough :)
22:33 bacek rg: it's far away...
22:33 cotto bacek, got it.  name vs body
22:34 bacek Is there some Visual C++ available for free?
22:35 jonathan bacek: Yes.
22:35 jonathan http://www.microsoft.com/express/vc/
22:35 cotto bacek, http://www.microsoft.com/express/vc/
22:35 cotto so close
22:36 jonathan That site has such a retro feel.
22:36 bacek jonathan, cotto, thanks :)
22:38 particle joined #parrot
22:38 cotto I wonder if they have a version for Ubuntu.
22:40 bacek gotta go.
22:40 purl EXCUSE ME, I HAVE TO GO WASH MY COMPUTER
22:40 bacek afk # @kids ~~ school, $self->dayjob
22:41 cotto bye
22:52 tetragon joined #parrot
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23:12 cotto msg bacek Is there any reason the 'attr' sub in src/vtable_info.pir doesn't use optional params?
23:12 purl Message for bacek stored.
23:22 Ademan joined #parrot

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