Camelia, the Perl 6 bug

IRC log for #parrot, 2009-07-14

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Time Nick Message
00:16 jdv79 i think the article on sdtimes.com pushes the envelope of truth.
00:17 Infinoid "expands dynamic integrations"
00:17 Infinoid somehow, I like the sound of that
00:17 Infinoid I'd buy anything that has the word "dynamic" in it
00:24 dalek parrot: r40071 | pmichaud++ | trunk/compilers/nqp/src/Grammar.pg:
00:24 dalek parrot: [nqp]:  Eliminate deprecated <fail> subrule (TT #460).
00:24 dalek parrot: review: https://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/40071/
00:24 dalek parrot: r40072 | pmichaud++ | trunk/compilers/pge/PGE (2 files):
00:24 dalek parrot: [pge]:  Remove some deprecated subrules and methods (TT #460)
00:24 dalek parrot: review: https://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/40072/
00:24 pmichaud whoppix: pong
00:24 pmichaud woops
00:24 pmichaud whiteknight left.... tab completion fail
00:24 whoppix happens.
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00:53 kid51_at_dinner jdv79: Which article  on sdtimes.com?
00:56 MoC joined #parrot
01:01 cotto kid51, http://sdtimes.com/PARROT_1_4_EXPANDS_DYNAMIC_​INTEGRATIONS/By_Alex_Handy/About_PARROT/33606
01:03 cotto alternately, http://sdtimes.com/PARROT_1_4_MAKES_PUPPI​ES_SMILE/By_Some_Dude/About_PUPPIES/33606
01:04 cotto Apparently their SEO guys are a little extreme.
01:11 kid51 Yes, indeed.  Thanks.
01:23 chromatic joined #parrot
01:33 dalek cardinal: 23a0f62 | (Ted Reed)++ | src/classes/Array.pir:
01:33 dalek cardinal: Implement Array.concat
01:33 dalek cardinal: review: http://github.com/cardinal/cardinal/commit​/23a0f62d9d5900233928ecb5dc8f6eb5372d4008
01:33 dalek cardinal: fee49aa | (Ted Reed)++ | src/classes/Array.pir:
01:33 dalek cardinal: Implement the * operator for Array.
01:33 dalek cardinal: review: http://github.com/cardinal/cardinal/commit​/fee49aab5ffd3b785d805a089fdec630092d58a9
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01:51 dalek decnum-dynpmcs: r108 | darbelo++ | trunk/ (4 files):
01:51 dalek decnum-dynpmcs: A small step towards a cleaner build infrastructure:
01:51 dalek decnum-dynpmcs:     Folded the decNumber makefile into the main one.
01:51 dalek decnum-dynpmcs:     Moved intermediate object files to the 'build' directory
01:51 dalek decnum-dynpmcs:     Removed some now-unneeded targets.
01:51 dalek decnum-dynpmcs: review: http://code.google.com/p/decnu​m-dynpmcs/source/detail?r=108
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02:47 Andy ping jettero
02:47 purl I can't find jettero in the DNS.
02:57 dalek cardinal: 6ac0177 | (Ted Reed)++ | src/classes/Array.pir:
02:57 dalek cardinal: Implement + operator for Array.
02:57 dalek cardinal: review: http://github.com/cardinal/cardinal/commit​/6ac0177f05006faaaea41ceb5c5b1d8400ebf388
02:58 dalek parrot: r40073 | jkeenan++ | trunk/t/pmc/exception.t:
02:58 dalek parrot: Un-SKIP test #30 (which actually should have been TODO-ed rather than SKIP-ped.  Cf.:  https://trac.parrot.org/parrot/ticket/40.
02:58 dalek parrot: review: https://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/40073/
03:04 Topic for #parrotis now http://www.parrot.org/ | 291 RTs left | Next release: 2009-07-21
03:04 * kid51 must sleep
03:04 purl $kid51->sleep(8 * 3600);
03:19 cotto bacek_at_work, poing
03:28 dalek rakudo: 3e1952f | pmichaud++ | src/parser/ (2 files):
03:28 dalek rakudo: Update compiler to avoid deprecated regexes and Match methods.
03:28 dalek rakudo: review: http://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/3​e1952fcfdd331d956a1ba314892026a043f6f7e
03:29 dalek rakudo: 147b3d7 | pmichaud++ | build/PARROT_REVISION:
03:29 dalek rakudo: Bump build/PARROT_REVISION to get latest PGE changes.
03:29 dalek rakudo: review: http://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/1​47b3d7df6876966abcef7baa22c86f249e827fa
03:33 dalek parrot: r40074 | pmichaud++ | trunk/DEPRECATED.pod:
03:33 dalek parrot: [pge]:  Remove deprecated items from PGE (TT #460, #461).
03:33 dalek parrot: review: https://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/40074/
03:36 dalek TT #460 closed by pmichaud++: [TODO] remove deprecated built-in PGE rules
03:40 bacek_at_work cotto: poing
03:43 cotto bacek_at_work, Is your intent for opsc that we add an extra stage to the compiler that runs the oplib code and the runcore-specific stuff, then spits it out to the appropriate files?
03:45 bacek_at_work cotto: I have no strong opinion on either approaches.
03:46 bacek_at_work but I slightly prefer to have compiler and emitter separated.
03:46 bacek_at_work So we can parse everything once and spit various runcores from single PAST tree
03:47 cotto That's more efficient.
03:48 bacek_at_work Yes.
03:48 bacek_at_work And it can be fit into current Makefiles more easily.
03:49 cotto So should BUILD take care of the runcore-independent stuff, i.e. turning the past into something the runcores can work on?
03:49 bacek_at_work For now - yes.
03:50 bacek_at_work But keep in mind that we'll probably will use OpLib for L1 too.
03:51 cotto That's an interesting concern.
03:51 bacek_at_work ETOOMANYWILL
03:51 cotto I suppose it wouldn't be too hard to stick the proper compiler in there somewhere.
03:51 cotto ?
03:51 bacek_at_work cotto: parse_ops_file is good candidate.
03:52 bacek_at_work Actually we can prefix L1 based ops with "L1" to select PCT rules for op_body.
03:53 bacek_at_work afk # $dayjob
03:53 cotto The thing that confuses me is that parse_ops_file is producing a PAST, which duplicates opsc_core.pir
03:57 cotto bacek_at_work, ^ (whenever you get nafk)
04:10 bacek_at_work cotto: erm... What do you mean?
04:10 bacek_at_work parse_ops_file _uses_ opsc_core to parse ops.
04:11 cotto right, but my assumption is that we'll run opsc.pbc to generate the runcores
04:13 cotto i.e. ./parrot compilers/opsc/opsc.pbc src/ops/*.ops
04:13 cotto I don't see how parse_ops fits in with that.
04:14 bacek_at_work opsc.pbc can mimic ops2pl.
04:14 bacek_at_work e.g. not use "traditional" PCT compiler workflow.
04:15 bacek_at_work "do not use" means "We'll create own flow".
04:15 cotto So what'll that flow look like?
04:15 bacek_at_work Just because currently we are not targeting parrot. We targeting multiply "C compiler" targets
04:16 cotto I was thinking we'd just add an extra "generate_runcore" stage to the HLLCompiler.
04:16 bacek_at_work 1. Read command line args. 2. Create few objects. 3. Emit runcore1. ... 7. emit runcore4
04:17 bacek_at_work we have to generate multiple runcores. I don't now how it fits into HLLCompiler.
04:17 cotto We could generate them all at once.
04:18 cotto We just need to make sure the past doesn't get messed up.
04:18 bacek_at_work And it's challenge.
04:18 bacek_at_work Similar to "implement refcounting of Contexts"
04:18 cotto eew
04:19 cotto All we'd need to do is stick the opcodes into something that can be cloned.
04:19 cotto It'd be a bit of annoying boilerplate code, but I don't think it'd cause any problems.
04:19 bacek_at_work OpLib::ops is good candidate :)
04:19 bacek_at_work It's Hash. And it deeply cloned by default.
04:20 cotto I thought cloning was shallow by default.
04:20 bacek_at_work not for hashes
04:22 cotto It copies strings, but it also just uses the default clone for any nested types
04:23 chromatic Did someone make a Git SVN clone?
04:23 bacek_at_work cotto: hm... May be.
04:24 cotto If we have an RPA or RSA in there, we'll get new PMCs whose values are old PMCs.
04:24 bacek_at_work chromatic: Jonathan Leto did.
04:24 chromatic I saw his GitHub repo.
04:25 dukeleto what did I do :)
04:25 dukeleto http://github.com/leto/parrot/tree/upstream
04:25 chromatic I have commit access to Parrot SVN though.
04:26 chromatic Then I decided to check out only the last ~2000 revisions.
04:26 cotto s/values/elements/
04:29 bacek_at_work chromatic: git svn init -s https://svn.parrot.org/parrot; git svn fetch -r 38000
04:30 chromatic Yep, just did that.
04:31 chromatic Now to figure out how to work on an SVN branch.
04:31 dukeleto the full git svn clone took about a week
04:32 cotto protip: avoid using avian carriers
04:32 dukeleto cotto: like svn over http?
04:36 cotto bacek_at_work, do you have any objections to trying a "traditional" HLLCompiler workflow that generates all runcores at once?
04:42 bacek_at_work cotto: no. go ahead if you can make it I'll be happy
04:42 cotto Awesome.
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04:45 cotto ENONOPASTE
04:53 cotto bacek_at_work, is there any reason not to run load_op_map_files from BUILD?
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04:58 bacek_at_work cotto: for simplify testing during development. It should be called from BUILD.
05:01 cotto ok.  I'll move it there with the next commit (which should be later tonight).
05:12 cotto pmichaud, ping
05:25 cotto msg pmichaud In HLLCompiler, why is $?FILES a space-separated String instead of an RPA?
05:25 purl Message for pmichaud stored.
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06:02 dalek parrot: r40075 | chromatic++ | branches/pluggable_runcore:
06:02 dalek parrot: Created branch to make runcores pluggable
06:02 dalek parrot: review: https://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/40075/
06:06 cotto woohoo!  next stop, world domination through profiling!
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06:19 chromatic Eventually.
06:19 purl eventually we'll all be dead
06:20 iblechbot joined #parrot
06:21 bacek_at_work chromatic: ping
06:22 TonyC joined #parrot
06:38 chromatic pong
06:45 bacek_at_work chromatic: My English is too weak to understand your mail about my GC patch. Is't thumb up for patch for thumb down?
06:46 bacek_at_work http://lists.parrot.org/pipermail​/parrot-dev/2009-July/002503.html this one
06:57 chromatic Thumbs up.
06:57 purl it has been said that thumbs up is at http://www.friedmanarchives.com/China/Web/Ch​apter23/4%20Thumbs%20Up%204x6%2072%20dpi.jpg
06:57 chromatic We should keep the constant STRING pool for now tgough.
06:57 chromatic though
07:00 bacek_at_work Ok.
07:00 bacek_at_work I didn't touch pools actually. I just enforced "contract" with constant pools.
07:00 bacek_at_work That's main reason for hate constant pools per se..
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07:48 dalek parrot: r40076 | cotto++ | branches/ops_pct/compilers/opsc (3 files):
07:48 dalek parrot: [opsc] start working on a generate_runcores stage to transform the past into C runcore code
07:48 dalek parrot: review: https://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/40076/
07:49 cotto Would it be a Bad Idea to use the svn id string as part of a grammar?
07:50 cotto nm.  It feels hacky.  I'll find something else.
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08:07 nopaste "chromatic" at 72.90.115.31 pasted "Runcore struct draft (for cotto)" (13 lines) at http://nopaste.snit.ch/17256
08:12 Gerd joined #parrot
08:23 cotto which runcores would necessitate the flags?
08:23 cotto would that just be C?
08:25 cotto nm.  I need to be more coherent to ask that question.
08:28 chromatic See src/call/pcc.c:3020
08:31 cotto chromatic, could I get your thoughts on the following nopaste?
08:31 masak joined #parrot
08:31 nopaste "cotto" at 74.61.2.46 pasted "proposed change to .ops file format" (266 lines) at http://nopaste.snit.ch/17257
08:32 cotto basically remove VERSION = PARROT_VERSION and make it explicit what's part of a ops file's preamble
08:33 mokurai left #parrot
08:34 bacek_at_work cotto: why do you want explicit BEGIN_OPS_PREAMBLE?
08:35 cotto to make it easier to parse all the ops files when they're catted together
08:35 bacek_at_work afaik currently everything before VERSION = ... is preamble.
08:35 bacek_at_work Ah.
08:35 bacek_at_work Got the point
08:36 cotto also, VERSION = ... is useless and obsolete
08:36 bacek_at_work But why do you need it?
08:36 bacek_at_work I agree that VERSION is obsolete.
08:36 cotto it makes opsc easier to write
08:37 cotto also, it's actually everything before the first pod that's preamble.
08:37 cotto there's one file that exercises that
08:40 cotto clock?
08:40 purl cotto: LAX: Tue 1:40am PDT / CHI: Tue 3:40am CDT / NYC: Tue 4:40am EDT / LON: Tue 9:40am BST / BER: Tue 10:40am CEST / IND: Tue 2:10pm IST / TOK: Tue 5:40pm JST / SYD: Tue 6:40pm EST /
08:40 bacek_at_work time to go home.
08:42 cotto time to go to sleep
08:42 cotto good night
08:42 bacek_at_work good night, cotto
08:55 Casan joined #parrot
08:58 Casan jonathan: heya. Unfortunately I must skip yapc:eu this year. I have been accepted to masters studies in France starting in September, but my funding is still not in the clear, so I'll have to work on that instead.
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10:18 Infinoid msg chromatic Your comment on TT #678 didn't get through.  We still need to get email2trac working...
10:18 purl Message for chromatic stored.
10:19 dalek rakudo: 0c2cb6f | masak++ | src/ (2 files):
10:19 dalek rakudo: moved C<.split> POD from src/builtins to src/setting
10:19 dalek rakudo: review: http://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/0​c2cb6f9a4d202726bca68c89e98d2f57b12d3bc
10:22 Infinoid Gerd: TT #509 looks like a communication failure to me.  Allison mentions that symlinks will fail on platforms that don't support symlinking, but the patch explicitly checks for symlink support before using them.  On the other side, it's very unclear what the benefit of this patch is
10:25 Gerd Infinoid: The benefit is only for building rpms
10:26 Gerd Infinoid: On the system library there are only symlink from noversionnumber library to version librarys
10:28 Gerd If the symlink is done with make from Parrot there is no need to take for it in the spec file of the rpm
10:29 Infinoid I agree with that assessment, but I think putting it in the specfile is cleaner overall
10:29 Infinoid I know we're working on reorganizing the temporary blib tree structure to more accurately match the install path.  But I'm not sure what the status of that is
10:30 Infinoid I would note that your patch does not check whether an existing symlink is relative or absolute, so if we ever use them for that blib organization stuff, you will end up with an rpm containing symlinks to the build tree
10:30 Infinoid But that's a strawman.  I don't have a good example of that
10:31 Infinoid (and I'm pretty unfamiliar with the installation effort in general)
10:32 Gerd Infinoid: The symlink is create first and get lost with install_files script
10:33 Infinoid Yes.  Preserving that symlink probably wouldn't hurt.  My only concern is that there's no guarantee that it will remain the *only* symlink
10:34 Infinoid anyway, my main point of bringing this up was, explaining in further detail in comments to the ticket would increase its chances of being applied
10:34 Gerd Okay, so I will let the patch in the specfile
10:34 mikehh All tests PASS (pre/post config, smolder, fulltest) at r40076 - Ubuntu 9.04 amd64
10:41 Infinoid Gerd: I'll post a followup to the ticket, thanks
10:42 Gerd Infinoid: thanks
10:43 mikehh rakudo does FAILs to run even make test - t/00-parrot/01-literals.t .......... too many arguments passed (2) - 1 param expected
10:43 mikehh this happens for all tests
10:44 Infinoid too many arguments to what?
10:44 mikehh dunno where the does comes from - I don't remember typng that
10:45 mikehh typing
10:46 mikehh i did make test in rakudo andthat was the output o the first nd subsequent tests
10:46 mikehh wireless keyboard :-{
10:47 Infinoid what happens when you run one of those tests with "prove -v"?
10:49 Infinoid Oh, wait.
10:49 Infinoid Gerd: If a symlink was detected, won't this code run both symlink() and copy() on the files?  An if/else chain might be more appropriate
10:51 mikehh mhh@mhh-desktop:~/rakudo$ perl t/harness t/00-parrot/01-literals.t
10:52 mikehh t/00-parrot/01-literals.t .. too many arguments passed (2) - 1 param expected
10:55 mikehh I built and tested parrot in ~/parrot and then switched to ~/rakudo
10:55 Gerd Infinoid: I do not remember the code, but I think not because of an next statemant
10:56 mikehh make realclean, git pull and then perl Configure.pl --parrot-config=../parrot/parrot_config, make, make test
10:57 Gerd Infinoid: Why be operating system can be checked, if it is Linux and only to the protect the syslink on linux
11:05 Gerd Thanks Infinoid, I have to leave irc, because I have to look for another thing, bye
11:09 Infinoid oh, there is a next statement, I missed that.
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12:21 Whiteknight good morning #parrot
12:32 jdv79 are there any examples of walking the arenas?
12:43 Whiteknight jdv79: what do you mean by that?
12:45 Whiteknight Arenas form a linked list
12:45 jdv79 i'm looking into generating an object graph like Coke hinted at
12:46 jdv79 walking through the arenas and poking around seemed like the simplest way
12:46 jdv79 the gc doesn't seem to encapsulate well enough to get the parent/child rel easily
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12:58 Whiteknight yeah, I was thinking about that the other day. We do the marking through Parrot_gc_mark_PObj_alive(), but that function doesn't take a reference to the parent so you cant make a graph from it
12:59 Whiteknight there is some arena walking code in src/gc/system.c, it traverses the linked list to determine whether a given pointer is located in a given pool
13:00 Whiteknight there is more stack walking code in src/gc/gc_ms.c in the sweep code. It sweeps over the arenas linearly and frees items that are not alive
13:01 jdv79 yeah, there are many invocation sites for Parrot_gc_mark_PObj_alive().  once i noticed that i started looking for another way.
13:02 Whiteknight you could look into the blocking macros in include/parrot/gc_api.c
13:03 Whiteknight GC_WRITE_BARRIER
13:03 Whiteknight that macro is supposed to be used whenever we add or remove one PMC into an aggregate
13:03 Whiteknight it's supposed to be used for GC cores like a generational core and a train algorithm so we can keep track of inter-generational pointers
13:04 Whiteknight but since Parrot doesn't have a generational GC, those macros are basically useless, and they haven't been used in the codebase consistently
13:05 Whiteknight if they were used more consistently, you could define them to call a custom function to build the graph
13:06 Whiteknight "if they were used consistently"
13:06 jdv79 well, i'll poke around some more.  thanks for the pointers.
13:06 Whiteknight no problem, happy to help whenever I can
13:06 * jdv79 is off to work
13:06 Whiteknight I'm sorry things are so messy that there's no help to be had
13:06 jdv79 it is what it is
13:17 pmichaud Good morning, #parrot
13:17 Util Good morning
13:17 purl And good moroning to you, Util.
13:32 Andy joined #parrot
13:40 dalek rakudo: 8037412 | masak++ | src/setting/Any-str.pm:
13:40 dalek rakudo: fixed Perl5-centric POD in Perl 6 code
13:40 dalek rakudo: masak-- for breaking Rakudo by not running `make` before committing.
13:40 dalek rakudo: review: http://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/8​037412ee83685119e2d03a9a3f8b4386e1fdf5b
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13:51 dalek rakudo: eaa3ea8 | duff++ | src/setting/Any-str.pm:
13:51 dalek rakudo: make POD consistent
13:51 dalek rakudo: review: http://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/e​aa3ea8902df54ab02b54ee13603ea22acf1f95e
13:51 nopaste "pmichaud" at 72.181.176.220 pasted "exit opcode doesn't set return value" (7 lines) at http://nopaste.snit.ch/17260
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13:57 dalek TT #834 created by pmichaud++: exit opcode doesn't set process return value
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14:05 bacek joined #parrot
14:06 bacek good localtime()
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14:08 Coke msg bacek http://code.google.com/p/partcl/wiki/TestingPartcl - t/cmd_lsort.t passes all individual tests but reports failures because of RT#57088 ; the namespace failure is NOT expected, however.
14:08 purl Message for bacek stored.
14:08 bacek Coke: hey! No need to msg me. I'm here :)
14:10 Coke that article has at least one factual inaccuracy. (http://sdtimes.com/PARROT_1_4_MAKES_PUPPIE​S_SMILE/By_Some_Dude/About_PUPPIES/33606)
14:13 bacek Coke: at least about scheduled release?
14:14 Coke bacek: sorry about the /msg, was several hundred lines back.
14:14 Coke bacek: "Since the version 1.0 release in May, outside contributors have begun adding languages, such as APL, Lua and SNOBOL"
14:14 bacek Coke: no worries :)
14:14 Coke the APL work started a /wee/ bit before 1.0
14:15 bacek It's just typo. It should be 0.1 I think
14:16 Coke you're too generous.
14:16 Coke Don't get me wrong, I'm glad to see some press.
14:19 pmichaud actually, the point was "outside contributors"
14:19 pmichaud i.e., people who have played with parrot who aren't on the parrot core team.
14:22 dalek parrot: r40077 | bacek++ | trunk/src/pmc/pmcproxy.pmc:
14:22 dalek parrot: [cage] Remove PMCProxy.mark and .destroy.
14:22 dalek parrot: PMCProxy inherited from Class and doesn't have additional ATTRibutes. Which means
14:22 dalek parrot: PMCProxy.mark and .destroy should be exactly the same as Class'.
14:22 dalek parrot: review: https://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/40077/
14:22 dalek parrot: r40078 | bacek++ | trunk/src/pmc (2 files):
14:22 dalek parrot: [cage] Don't use constant Hash for parent_overrides in Class and PMCProxy.
14:22 dalek parrot: Parrot_oo_find_vtable_override put non-constant values in it.
14:22 dalek parrot: review: https://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/40078/
14:22 dalek parrot: r40079 | bacek++ | trunk/src/hll.c:
14:22 dalek parrot: [cage] Don't use constant OrderedHash for HLL_info.
14:22 dalek parrot: OrderedHash creates non-constant keys in push_pmc which causes GC
14:22 dalek parrot: failures.
14:22 dalek parrot: review: https://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/40079/
14:22 dalek parrot: r40080 | bacek++ | trunk/src/pmc_freeze.c:
14:22 dalek parrot: [cage] Clear constant flag during thawing PMC from PBC.
14:22 dalek parrot: review: https://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/40080/
14:22 dalek parrot: r40081 | bacek++ | trunk/src/hash.c:
14:22 dalek parrot: [cage] Put big assert to parrot_hash_put to prevent using non-constant
14:22 dalek parrot: keys or values in constant Hash.
14:22 dalek parrot: review: https://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/40081/
14:24 * PerlJam gets the feeling that bacek uses git-svn
14:24 bacek PerlJam: indeed.
14:25 bacek I can't use plain svn. It's way to restrictive and inflexible.
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14:27 Coke pmichaud: ok. that's not clear, and ... really? who contributed to APL ?
14:28 Coke or Lua. I thought lua was pretty much feature complete before parrot 1.0 shipped.
14:30 pmichaud I don't know about Lua.  For APL, we had that person who inquired about doing things with APL (although that might've been pre-1.0 as well)
14:31 pmichaud I think the original interview question was "Are you aware of anyone other than the core parrot team who are looking at or playing with building languages on Parrot?"
14:31 Coke I don't know anyone who is taking it seriously, no. =-)
14:31 pmichaud But I don't think there was any mention of "post-1.0" in the question.
14:31 Coke aside from you. =-)
14:32 Coke (that was a joke, btw.)
14:32 dalek parrot: r40082 | whiteknight++ | trunk/src/ops/core.ops:
14:32 dalek parrot: [ops] make sure to set the exit_code of the new exception object in the exit opcode. Previously we were only setting the 'type', which doesn't translate to exit_code. This should resolve TT #834
14:32 dalek parrot: review: https://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/40082/
14:33 pmichaud #ps in 240
14:33 Coke So, I'm still left happy that there is some publicity, but grumbly regarding the reporting.
14:35 NotFound pmichaud: I remember an article, maybe 2-3 years ago, about someone that used parrot to port business code written in some old and discontinued 4GL.
14:36 Coke NotFound: ... that was dan.
14:36 Whiteknight pmichaud: can you see if r40082 fixes TT #834 for you?
14:36 NotFound Ah, doesn't count as "other than the core", then.
14:36 Coke and that didn't end well, as i recall, as parrot changed too much for that project to keep up with.
14:36 Coke (which, as a HLL author, I can totally relate to.)
14:37 pmichaud NotFound: I suspect it will work, although it's weird to be setting the $1 value in two places.
14:37 pmichaud NotFound: I'll try it here.
14:37 Coke NotFound,pmichaud: we need to add a test for that.
14:38 NotFound Ehhhh... What are you talking about?
14:38 pmichaud I'm not sure how to test exit codes in the current test harness.
14:38 pmichaud NotFound: line 957
14:38 Andy joined #parrot
14:40 NotFound Line 957 of what?
14:40 pmichaud core.ops
14:40 pmichaud the file you just patched
14:40 pmichaud we end up putting the value of $1 in two places.
14:41 pmichaud oh, sorry
14:41 pmichaud that was Whiteknight
14:41 pmichaud Nick misread
14:41 NotFound NM
14:41 Whiteknight pmichaud: I think that the value $1 is really just the exit code and not the "type"
14:42 pmichaud Whiteknight: so what should the "type" be?
14:42 Theory joined #parrot
14:42 Whiteknight i have no idea, but it works as $1 for now and I'm not changing it till I know what it should be
14:42 pmichaud okay. :-)
14:44 bacek Coke: afaiu cmd_namespace failing because of hash keys order changed.
14:45 NotFound The keys branck has landed?
14:45 pmichaud Whiteknight: your patch seems to resolve the build issue for Rakudo, many thanks!
14:45 bacek NotFound: not yet.
14:45 pmichaud now I just need to run a spectest and bump PARROT_REVISION :-)
14:45 Whiteknight pmichaud: no problem. I'll look into the issue a bit more and clean things up a little in there
14:47 bacek NotFound: I hope r40078 will fix latest issue with packfilerawsegment.t occasional failures...
14:47 NotFound bacek: good!
14:48 Coke bacek: checking...
14:48 bacek NotFound: It is not...
14:49 Coke bacek: no failures on that one for me. which test?
14:49 bacek Coke: 9.
14:49 bacek #      got : '::audreyt ::bob ::Bob ::tcl'
14:49 bacek # expected : '::audreyt ::Bob ::bob ::tcl'
14:50 Coke bacek: I'm calling RPA's .'sort' before returning that list.
14:50 dalek parrot: r40083 | bacek++ | branches/tt761_keys_revamp (38 files):
14:50 dalek parrot: Bring branch up-to-date with trunk.
14:50 dalek parrot: review: https://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/40083/
14:51 bacek Coke: ahem... RPA sort... Sounds familiar.
14:51 Coke using children_cmp sub from runtime/builtin/namespace.pir
14:52 Coke ... which should be sorting things case insenstive, which could matter on original order of elements, given Bob and bob.
14:52 Coke hurm.
14:53 Coke http://www.tcl.tk/man/tcl8​.5/TclCmd/namespace.htm#M5 doesn't indicate that they are sorted, tclsh8.5 passes that file...
14:54 Coke do you have a copy of tclsh8.5 lying about?
14:54 bacek Bah! PackfileRawSegment failure is trivial. Just because someone (me) was too lazy to properly implement test...
14:56 Coke bacek: ah. it's not documented, and we shouldn't be relying on it. will explicitly sort them in the test.
14:57 bacek Coke: ok. Glad to hear that not everything is my fault :)
15:00 Coke no, good catch.
15:04 dalek parrot: r40084 | bacek++ | branches/tt761_keys_revamp/t/pmc (2 files):
15:04 dalek parrot: [t] Add _find_segment_by_prefix helper function and use it in t/packfilerawsegment.t to avoid relying on Hash keys order
15:04 dalek parrot: review: https://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/40084/
15:05 dalek cardinal: 4865c28 | (Ted Reed)++ | src/classes/Array.pir:
15:05 dalek cardinal: Switch use of Array.append to Array.concat to work around Parrot bug.
15:05 dalek cardinal: review: http://github.com/cardinal/cardinal/commit​/4865c2870f6ab5d04f706a5f2f44b4f6aa201f98
15:05 dalek cardinal: 611c3c2 | (Ted Reed)++ | src/classes/Array.pir:
15:05 dalek cardinal: Correct Array's + operator to be non-destructive. Whoops.
15:05 dalek cardinal: review: http://github.com/cardinal/cardinal/commit​/611c3c2d52e2ec9413fdb0988996dd29e643723e
15:05 dalek cardinal: 8457f68 | (Ted Reed)++ | src/classes/Array.pir:
15:05 dalek cardinal: Add & operator to Array.
15:05 dalek cardinal: review: http://github.com/cardinal/cardinal/commit​/8457f683c521d95e8fe7529821ffcf939172089d
15:06 bacek cardinal: Switch use of Array.append to Array.concat to work around Parrot bug.
15:06 polyglotbot OUTPUT[Parrot VM: Can't stat languages/cardinal/cardinal.pbc, code 2.␤main: Packfile loading failed␤]
15:06 bacek hmm...
15:12 bacek Ted Reed?
15:12 HG` joined #parrot
15:16 moritz cardinal: Array.new
15:16 polyglotbot OUTPUT[Parrot VM: Can't stat languages/cardinal/cardinal.pbc, code 2.␤main: Packfile loading failed␤]
15:18 Coke bacek: fixed in partcl r535
15:18 bacek Coke: thanks!
15:19 Coke were you testing against parrot in your branch?
15:20 bacek Yes.
15:21 donaldh joined #parrot
15:21 Coke woot.
15:21 dalek partcl: r535 | coke++ | trunk/ (2 files):
15:21 dalek partcl: The output of [namespace children] is not guaranteed to be sorted.
15:21 dalek partcl: Force the sort in the test; remove the sort from the command itself.
15:21 dalek partcl: Found thanks to bug report from bacek++
15:21 dalek partcl: review: http://code.google.com/p/p​artcl/source/detail?r=535
15:21 bacek Hooray! Rakudo's make spectest passed without new failures comparing to trunk.
15:22 Coke me rants again about the runloop bug.
15:22 bacek Coke: it will be very helpful if I can test partcl against non-installed parrot. Just save ~30 seconds to make install.
15:22 bacek Coke: which one?
15:24 Coke bacek the one that causes t/cmd_lsort.t to have a bad exit value.
15:25 Coke bacek: (non-installed parrot) - yah - I'm hoping that's going into 1.4
15:25 Coke ... but I'm not hacking on it myself.
15:25 bacek Coke: fair enough.
15:30 bacek clock?
15:30 purl bacek: LAX: Tue 8:30am PDT / CHI: Tue 10:30am CDT / NYC: Tue 11:30am EDT / LON: Tue 4:30pm BST / BER: Tue 5:30pm CEST / IND: Tue 9:00pm IST / TOK: Wed 12:30am JST / SYD: Wed 1:30am EST /
15:30 bacek Sleep time. Good night everyone.
15:30 * bacek departing to bed dreaming about never touch GC bugs again.
15:41 * Coke stares at moritz's last blog entry.
15:41 moritz somebody reads my blog?
15:42 Coke it's agregated into PP6.
15:42 Coke and the last one seems to be empty.
15:42 moritz ah, that explains a lot
15:45 Theory joined #parrot
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16:22 dalek rakudo: 2fb60ee | pmichaud++ | build/PARROT_REVISION:
16:22 dalek rakudo: Bump PARROT_REVISION so that we get appropriate exit status codes (Whiteknight++)
16:23 dalek rakudo: review: http://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/2​fb60eea450975584a175e49083719c3c4fe5cd5
16:38 pmichaud #ps in 112
16:38 pmichaud don't forget to pre-paste reports
16:41 dalek rakudo: b7643e8 | pmichaud++ | docs/spectest-progress.csv:
16:41 dalek rakudo: spectest-progress.csv update: 415 files, 11784 passing, 0 failing
16:41 dalek rakudo: review: http://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/b​7643e82a200caed73b777e2b09e9f9065b1ff39
16:45 hercynium joined #parrot
17:03 cotto hi
17:06 mikehh joined #parrot
17:08 Whiteknight hello Cotto!
17:12 cotto hi Whiteknight
17:17 dalek parrot: r40085 | Util++ | trunk/src/io/api.c:
17:17 dalek parrot: [io] Corrected typo in api.c
17:17 dalek parrot: review: https://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/40085/
17:24 * Coke trolls again for volunteers to put together a version of partcl that uses PCT.
17:24 moritz I thought that wasn't going to be feasible?
17:25 moritz due to TCL not having the traditional parse-compile-execute phases
17:25 Coke it does.
17:25 * purl stays quiet
17:25 Coke it's just that the tcl parse is very limited compared to, say, the perl6 parse.
17:26 Coke "command word word word" -> dispatch to command.
17:26 Coke not being in own HLL was the last big blocker I recall.
17:26 Coke (which is now gone.)
17:28 * Coke also ponders re-writing some of the runtime in a HLL than pir.
17:28 dalek parrot: r40086 | NotFound++ | trunk/src/hash.c:
17:28 dalek parrot: [cage] codingstd parens
17:28 dalek parrot: review: https://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/40086/
17:28 moritz in TCL?
17:29 Coke the only problem with that is dealing properly when things are redefined out from under me.
17:30 Coke does NQP handle exceptions yet?
17:30 moritz no idea
17:35 pmichaud NQP doesn't have any special exception handling structures in it, no.
17:35 pmichaud But we could add some.
17:37 Coke pmichaud: just looking at what's in, say, partcl's runtime/builtin/*.pir and seeing if any of that is easier to write or maintain in NQP.
17:38 * Whiteknight ponders rewriting partcl in Close
17:39 * NotFound ponder writing Open X-)
17:44 Coke I thought partcl was more complete than close. =-)
17:50 cotto The Close spec can be redefined.
17:50 dalek TT #717 closed by Util++: parrot_config segfaults when invoked with the --dump option
17:51 darbelo Done := "Where we are now"
17:53 mikehh codetest FAIL All others PASS (pre/post config, smolder fulltest) at r40084 - Ubuntu 9.04 amd64
17:54 mikehh had a patch but notfound beat me to it at r40086
17:55 mikehh s/notfound/NotFound/
17:57 NotFound I'm the faster cleaner on the west
17:58 mikehh hey I was doin' fulltest not just codetest :-}
17:59 allison joined #parrot
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18:02 chromatic joined #parrot
18:03 dalek website: darbelo++ | This week on decnum-dynpmcs.
18:03 dalek website: http://www.parrot.org/content/week-decnum-dynpmcs.
18:25 mikehh All tests PASS (pre/post config, smolder fulltest) at r40086 - Ubuntu 9.04 amd64
18:30 Whiteknight chromatic: ping
18:33 Whiteknight chromatic: unping
18:34 athomason joined #parrot
18:35 chromatic hooray
18:36 allison ah, chromatic is alive
18:36 Whiteknight chromatic: I'm really interested to see what you have planned for the pluggable_runcore branch
18:37 chromatic Not much.
18:37 purl same here, dude
18:37 chromatic 1) define a struct runcore_t which represents everything necessary to run a runcore
18:37 chromatic 2) refactor the existing runcores to register themselves
18:37 chromatic 3) refactor runcore invocation to use this struct
18:38 chromatic 4) add a(n optional) loading feature to load a new runcore and register it when Parrot doesn't recognize foo in -R foo
18:38 Whiteknight oh, that all sounds very fun
18:38 chromatic Should be simple.
18:39 Whiteknight sounds it, and potentially very beneficial
18:51 Whiteknight I think there are probably about a dozen tickets in RT and Trac by various names that suffer from this same problem mechanism
18:53 mikehh joined #parrot
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18:55 dalek rakudo: d8d0640 | pmichaud++ | src/parser/grammar-oper.pg:
18:55 dalek rakudo: infix:�=>� and related operators should be right associative.
18:55 dalek rakudo: review: http://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/d​8d0640766dd6f330539fad377dce5513000bce6
18:56 autark joined #parrot
18:59 Whiteknight The issue in TT #833 is the particular confluence of :init subs executing in the PIR compreg immediately and throwing an exception without providing a handler in the compiled code string
18:59 Whiteknight so there are several potential fixes for this:
18:59 rindolf joined #parrot
18:59 mikehh rakudo builds on parrot r40086 - PASSes make test/make spectest (t/spec/S03-operators/precedence.rakudo - TODO passed:   53-54)
19:00 Whiteknight 1) Don't allow exceptions to propagate out from :init subs when run at :init time (they can be called by name otherwise and should propagate exceptions like normal in those cases)
19:00 mikehh Ubuntu 9.04 amd64
19:00 pmichaud #1 isn't workable.
19:00 Whiteknight pmichaud: even from :init subs only?
19:00 pmichaud Whiteknight: even then.
19:00 pmichaud I can't guarantee that the code I'm compiling won't have an error coming from an :init sub, and I *have* to be able to catch it.
19:00 webnov8 hello. i'm new to parrot and was going thru the list of languages on the site looking for a language that i can take for a test drive. i'm trying to get http://github.com/cardinal/cardinal/tree/master but i'm not familiar with the perl Configure.pl way. any pointers on how to get this going?
19:00 allison aye, stopping the propagation of exceptions just isn't an option, ever
19:01 Whiteknight 2) force :init subs from the PIR compreg to run in the parent runloop
19:01 Whiteknight (altough that obviously doesn't resolve the rest of the inferior runloop-related problems(
19:01 Whiteknight but then again, it might be a good start
19:02 pmichaud #2 also doesn't feel like it would be a general solution
19:02 moritz webnov8: without knowing I'd just guess you have to call 'perl Configure.pl' and see what happens - did you try that?
19:02 pmichaud there's nothing to say that the parent runloop isn't also inferior to a runloop with an exception handler
19:02 Tene webnov8: webnov8 perl Configure.pl --parrot-config=/path/to/parrot_config
19:02 Whiteknight pmichaud: not a general solution now, but if we eventually switch to L1 it _will_ be general for all cases
19:02 Tene webnov8: you need to tell it where your parrot_config utility is, presumably in your parrot build directory, unless you're installed Parrot
19:03 PerlJam webnov8: or perl Configure.pl --gen-parrot  # for it to auto download and compile parrot
19:03 pmichaud Whiteknight: do you see L1 happening before 2.0?  If not, we need another solution I think.
19:03 webnov8 i already have parrot installed using the package provided by my distro
19:03 Whiteknight ...no
19:03 Tene webnov8: what happens when you just run Configure.pl on its own, then?
19:03 chromatic Whiteknight, did you write up a problem analysis somewhere?
19:03 Whiteknight TT #833 is the most recent
19:04 PerlJam webnov8: what dist is that exactly?   And what version of parrot?
19:04 webnov8 Tene, do i run make after the config?
19:04 Tene webnov8: yes
19:04 webnov8 PerlJam, archlinux with parrot 1.2
19:05 webnov8 Tene, when i run make i get: No rule to make target `/parrot', needed by `cardinal.pbc'.  Stop.
19:05 PerlJam webnov8: cool.  archlinux++
19:05 MoC joined #parrot
19:06 moritz webnov8: on some systems there's a 'parrot' and a 'parrot-dev' or 'parrot-devel' package - you need both (don't know about archlinux)
19:08 treed joined #parrot
19:08 Whiteknight RT3842  contains a similar problem (with some analysis) where the exception is handled in the child runloop instead of propagating into the parent runloop, and still creates problems
19:08 treed webnov8: I understand you're having build trouble with cardinal?
19:08 webnov8 treed, yep
19:08 treed I've just started on the project, so I'm still familarizing myself with it, but I'll help if I can.
19:08 PerlJam treed++
19:09 webnov8 i was just trying to take ruby or python for at a test drive to see what parrot's like
19:09 treed Ah.
19:09 treed Cardinal is still very basic.
19:09 Tene treed is the guy I'm trying to con into working on cardinal for me. :)
19:09 treed I've been working on adding things to the stdlib.
19:09 Theory joined #parrot
19:09 treed Starting with Array, and also some with Hash as needed. (Just added a bunch of stuff for includes? etc.)
19:10 treed Where's the build failing?
19:10 treed "trying to con" is an interesting description for "started working on it on his own" :-P
19:11 webnov8 treed, right at the start: make: *** No rule to make target `/parrot', needed by `cardinal.pbc'.  Stop. not sure if i forgot to do something. i did run Configure.pl with the path to my parrot_config like Tene suggested
19:11 treed Hm.
19:11 treed And that's what happens when you just type "make"?
19:11 webnov8 yep
19:12 PerlJam webnov8: what was the exact Configure line you used?
19:12 webnov8 PerlJam, perl Configure.pl --parrot-config=/usr/bin/parrot_config
19:12 treed makes me think $(BUILD_DIR) is empty
19:13 treed grep "^BUILD_DIR" Makefile
19:13 treed ?
19:15 webnov8 treed, i had set it to a dir in my home directory cuz home/sergej/community.cvs/de​vel/parrot/src/parrot-1.2.0 is what was provided
19:15 treed I see.
19:15 treed And there's no parrot binary in there?
19:16 treed (Also, that may get weird if you're using a parrot_config differently from the parrot you're using.
19:16 Coke your parrot_config should very likely be in the same dir as your parrot binary
19:16 pmichaud fresh checkout of tt761_keys_revamp branch fails tests on my system (x86 Kubuntu 9.04)
19:16 treed I would definitely try building parrot in your build dir and using its parrot_config.
19:17 webnov8 ok
19:19 nopaste "pmichaud" at 72.181.176.220 pasted ""make test" failures for tt761_keys_revamp branch (r40086, Kubuntu 9.04 x86)" (8 lines) at http://nopaste.snit.ch/17265
19:20 donaldh joined #parrot
19:23 moritz lots of fallout in cardinal's 'make test'
19:23 treed Oh, god yes.
19:24 treed Blame tene for that.
19:24 Tene blame me?  I didn't commit those failing tests.
19:24 Tene Maybe.
19:24 treed I'll need to look into fixing the test harness soon.
19:24 treed Tene: I can't even get "make test" to run.
19:24 Tene >.>
19:25 treed I've tried running some of the tests manually.
19:25 treed Some work, some don't.
19:26 treed But before I can start really working on that, I need the test suite to be easily runnable.
19:26 Tene yeah, I haven't had them all passing since someone sent me a bunch of additional tests
19:26 Tene dmknopp, iirc
19:26 moritz treed: what's the error message you get?
19:26 Tene many of them were failing at the time they were committed due to NYI
19:27 treed moritz: No error message.
19:27 treed Just no output.
19:27 nopaste "moritz" at 91.10.186.183 pasted "cardinal 'make test' summary (amd64/linux)" (64 lines) at http://nopaste.snit.ch/17266
19:27 treed NYI?
19:27 purl hmmm... NYI is not yet implemented
19:27 treed Ah.
19:27 * treed pets the bot.
19:27 treed I know the failing tests in array/uniq.t aren't due to NYI, at least on the part of array.uniq!
19:30 webnov8 installed pynie, no luck there either :S. any language on the language list that i can get up and running just to print hello world :) ?
19:30 treed Looks like mostly just failed plan numbers.
19:30 treed Should be easily fixable.
19:30 Whiteknight the problem with learning software lessons in hindisght is that when you've finally learned the lesson you have a mountain of code that does things the wrong way
19:31 treed Whiteknight: My maxim has always been "Expect to code everything at least twice; you only really understand the problem after you've solved it once."
19:31 treed (and more more than once)
19:31 Whiteknight treed, yeah I've heard that before
19:31 allison webnov8: what trouble did you have with pynie?
19:31 Whiteknight That's fine and good for small programs, but we can't just up and throw Parrot away
19:32 webnov8 allison, it can't run a simple function that computes the fib sequence. seems like parser issues?
19:32 * NotFound writes helloworld 2.0
19:32 treed Whiteknight: Well, you recode bits at a time.
19:32 Util We can throw Parrot away; let's just do it in small chunks, and call it Refactoring :)
19:32 treed +1
19:32 purl 1
19:32 allison webnov8: well, pynie isn't a complete implementation of python yet, you're likely using features it doesn't support
19:32 webnov8 allison, ah i see
19:32 treed Is # a comment in PIR?
19:33 Whiteknight treed: yes, and it's harder to recode something in place then it is to start from a clean slate and a good idea
19:33 allison webnov8: hello world it'll do fine
19:33 webnov8 allison, yea i didn't mean hello world in the literal sense :)
19:33 treed Yeah.
19:33 * webnov8 goes to try Pipp next
19:33 treed Whiteknight: That's true.
19:33 Util treed: comment - yes
19:33 treed That's also life. :-)
19:33 allison Whiteknight: hmmm... well it often *seems* simpler to start over, but the devil is in the details
19:33 treed Util: Thanks, realized it shortly thereafter.
19:33 Util Unquoted # is command-to-end-of-line
19:34 Util s/command/comment/
19:34 * particle notes that there is no news entry on parrot.org pointing to http://www.sdtimes.com/PARROT_1_4_EXPANDS_DYNAMI​C_INTEGRATIONS/By_Alex_Handy/About_PARROT/33606
19:34 Whiteknight allison: even easier then starting over is speculating idly on IRC about starting over
19:34 eternaleye joined #parrot
19:34 PerlJam Whiteknight: is that what L1 is? :)
19:34 * Whiteknight is a pro speculator
19:35 allison Whiteknight: true, true
19:35 mikehh joined #parrot
19:35 allison particle: are you adding one? if not I will
19:36 cotto btw, you can change and/or shorten that URL
19:36 particle i am not.
19:36 particle rats, missed #ps again
19:36 pmichaud "Impeachment!"
19:37 pmichaud particle: off hiking in the Appalachians?
19:37 particle instead, i'm working on getting a better donor management system set up
19:37 particle no, but i'll be cycling in eastern washington this weekend :)
19:37 Whiteknight treed: can you post a code example to TT #835 that demonstrates the problem?
19:37 allison particle: excellent
19:38 treed Whiteknight: I did.
19:38 treed Should be attached.
19:38 Whiteknight oh, haha, I didn't see it
19:38 Whiteknight sorry
19:38 treed No problem.
19:39 dalek TT #835 created by treed++: Crash when appending to subclasses of ResizablePMCArray
19:39 treed Came up while I was working on CardinalArray.
19:39 treed I worked around it by just implementing Array.concat and using that.
19:39 treed (Which needed to be implemented anyway.)
19:42 Whiteknight that's still obnoxious
19:42 * Whiteknight hates all the stupid little failures with subclassing
19:43 Tene I found some clues indicating that I'd run into this a few times in the past.
19:43 pmichaud particle: there's an important release in seven days and you're going to be off cycling in eastern washington?!?  :-)
19:43 Tene I'm starting to remember that I actually tracked down exactly what the problem was, but didn't know how to fix it.
19:43 Tene Of course, it's not recorded anywhere...
19:43 pmichaud I guess I can't complain too much -- I'm thinking of heading to the west coast this weekend also.  :-)
19:44 Tene I'm going out to Portland the week of July 27
19:44 particle no, just for the weekend.  i'll be ignoring the release from home :P
19:44 particle parrot releases are boring anyway.
19:44 Tene as they should be
19:44 particle :)
19:44 * pmichaud opens his (early) birthday present
19:44 Whiteknight what about the clever names we give them? aren't you on the edge of your seat to find out what 1.4 will be called?
19:45 * treed lives on the west coast.
19:45 * particle wonders if it's a blue laser
19:45 cotto Whiteknight, I know I am. ;)
19:45 moritz Whiteknight: parrot "you'll be seeing the dumb release namem for 6 month" 1.4
19:45 Whiteknight who is doing the release this month?
19:45 pmichaud oooh, blue laser would be cool.
19:45 particle pmichaud has a lot of toys
19:45 pmichaud I'd even go for the blue-violet one.
19:46 pmichaud but for this year's present I got a new SSD for my laptop :-)
19:46 cotto By the time the release happens, I'll probably have spent more time thinking about that than working on the release.
19:47 cotto btw, anyone have thoughts on this: http://nopaste.snit.ch/17257 ?  It's an update to the ops file format to make parsing easier.
19:47 pmichaud Let's call the 1.4 release "Unstabel"  :-P
19:47 cotto My current favorite is in that same vein.
19:48 chromatic cotto, that seems sensible to me.
19:49 cotto Cool.  I'll file a tt and make a deprecation note.
19:49 Whiteknight cotto: that nopaste looks good to me
19:50 szabgab joined #parrot
19:51 cotto This is good:
19:51 nopaste "cotto" at 74.61.2.46 pasted "arraybug.pir backtrace" (27 lines) at http://nopaste.snit.ch/17267
19:51 cotto using the arraybug.pir from tt #835
19:52 treed Is it GCing too early?
19:53 treed Or just a GC failure?
19:53 chromatic It's during global destruction.
19:54 treed I was experiencing the same bug in the middle of a longer script, though.
19:56 Util cotto: ops file format change looks good to me.
19:58 webnov8 left #parrot
20:00 dalek TT #836 created by cotto++: [DEPRECATED] ops file preamble format
20:01 treed Does that affect cardinal in any way?
20:02 autark joined #parrot
20:03 szabgab in case it was not mentioned here earlier: http://www.sdtimes.com/PARROT_1_4_EXPANDS_DYNAMI​C_INTEGRATIONS/By_Alex_Handy/About_PARROT/33606
20:03 cotto chromatic, Whiteknight, Util: thanks
20:07 dalek parrot: r40087 | cotto++ | trunk/DEPRECATED.pod:
20:07 dalek parrot: [DEPRECATED] add deprecation notice for ops preamble and VERSION line
20:07 dalek parrot: review: https://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/40087/
20:16 Whiteknight cotto++
20:19 Util Regarding treed's new tt #835 - in resizablepmcarray.pmc:
20:19 Util memmove(this_data + n, other_data, m  * sizeof (PMC *));
20:20 Util Shouldn't that  `+ n`  be  `+ n * sizeof (PMC *)`  instead?
20:20 chromatic Depends what this_data is.
20:20 rindolf left #parrot
20:21 Util chromatic: PMC **this_data  = PMC_array(SELF);
20:21 chromatic Then I believe that the math works out correctly as written.
20:21 chromatic This is an area of C that refuses to stay in my head if I think about it too long, however.
20:23 Util chromatic: Oh, I see.
20:24 chromatic It's not adding bytes, in that case.  It's adding PMC pointers.
20:25 dalek parrot: r40088 | NotFound++ | trunk (3 files):
20:25 dalek parrot: [DEPRECATED] add deprecation notices for Parrot_str_free, TT #826
20:25 dalek parrot: review: https://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/40088/
20:25 treed Except that a pointer is 4 bytes on 32-bit systems, right?
20:25 chromatic Sure, and 8 bytes on 64-bit systems.
20:26 treed So when it's adding PMC pointers, it's adding bytes.
20:26 chromatic It's adding bytes, if you want to look at it that way, but it knows the right number of bytes because it's not adding them as mere bytes.
20:26 chromatic You can say "C has no type system" and I mostly agree.
20:27 * treed used to do C and ASM way back in the day.
20:27 treed (Which is funny, coming from a 25-year-old.)
20:27 chromatic In this case C at least pretends it has a type system.
20:27 treed But n is still an int, yeah? And "this_data" is presumably a point.
20:27 treed er
20:28 khisanth_ joined #parrot
20:28 chromatic As I understand it, and I could be wrong, the compiler treats that expression equivalent to an array access.
20:28 chromatic this_data[n] is equivalent to this_data + n
20:28 treed Hm.
20:28 NotFound Yeah
20:28 treed Sounds wrong to me, but I haven't done C in a long time.
20:29 treed Hm.
20:29 treed When you state it as that equivalency, it does make more sense.
20:29 chromatic Just remember that C doesn't have arrays, and you'll be fine.
20:29 pmichaud ooooh, ssd is fast.  :-)
20:30 treed Yeah, C has pointers, and syntactic sugar.
20:30 NotFound Even funnier n[this_data] means the same.
20:30 Tene maybe someday they'll come out with a solid-state CPU.
20:30 chromatic I'm waiting for a solid-state society.
20:31 pmichaud I always thought of this_data[n] as being the same as *(this_data + n)
20:31 moritz Tene: in what ways are current CPUs not solid state?
20:31 NotFound Don't be fooled, C has arrays. It just decays them to pointer in almost any usage.
20:31 Tene moritz: none
20:31 Tene moritz: It was a joke.
20:31 moritz ah
20:31 pmichaud moritz: I was wondering about it also, though.
20:32 moritz my joke-o-meter is already sleeping I feare
20:32 moritz s/e$//
20:32 treed moritz: It can be awefully hard to tell when Tene's joking.
20:32 pmichaud moritz: I just didn't take the bait.  :-)
20:32 treed Even in person.
20:32 moritz pmichaud: you don't work in solid state physics, you're excused ;-)
20:33 * pmichaud notices that his cd-rom drive is very loud.
20:33 Tene treed: and in response to your question, isn't the best con one the mark thinks was his idea all along?
20:34 moritz pmichaud: mechanical components are always a mistake ;-)
20:34 Util pmichaud: it is to make up for the lack of HD noise.
20:34 pmichaud Util: yes, that's what I was just thinking.
20:34 Tene moritz: when are you getting rid of your mechanical components?
20:34 treed Tene: Heh.
20:34 treed Can anyone help me figure out why my PIR is failing to parse?
20:35 moritz Tene: I try, but sofar nothing could replace my keyboard
20:35 NotFound moritz: there are no mechanical keyboards
20:36 moritz NotFound: all keyboards I used so far had mechanical components
20:36 pmichaud if I could get a Kubuntu ISO image to boot from a usb or sd device, then I wouldn't need to use the cd-rom drive :-)
20:36 mokurai joined #parrot
20:36 Tene pmilaptop doesn't usb boot?
20:36 pmichaud Tene: it's supposed to -- I've never had luck getting it to do so though.
20:36 NotFound moritz: there are thinks that project a keyboard on your table and read finger movements.
20:36 pmichaud but I suspect my preparation of the boot device more than the laptop.
20:36 NotFound s/thinks/things
20:37 pmichaud http://www.thinkgeek.com/com​puting/keyboards-mice/8193/
20:39 moritz bah, no linux support
20:39 pmichaud I bet it works out-of-box with linux.
20:39 pmichaud Linux bluetooth support is pretty good.
20:39 moritz assuming that it registers itself as a normal input device
20:40 moritz and doesn't require some driver magic
20:40 pmichaud one would hope that it does, given the number of smartphone devices it works with
20:40 moritz that's something I'd try in a shop, but wouldn't order over the internet blindly
20:40 pmichaud (register itself as a normal input device, that is)
20:40 Tene My driver was written by pixies in the enchanted forest!
20:40 moritz (at least not until I have a real income ;-)
20:41 Tene moritz: you should put it on an INTERNETS WISHLIST!!!
20:41 moritz Tene: and hope that magic fairies find it, and order it for me?
20:42 moritz (is that how the pcc rewiring is going to happen? /me ducks and runs)
20:43 pmichaud http://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/l​inux-hardware-18/bluetooth-virtual-laser-​keyboard-on-ubuntu-compatability-657238/
20:43 Tene are you calling allison a magic fairy?
20:43 moritz I never met her
20:43 Theory joined #parrot
20:43 moritz so as long as she writes awesome code she is one, kind of ;-)
20:43 moritz (which applies to most other people here ;-)
20:44 treed But do the other people here *want* to be a magic fairy? :-P
20:44 chromatic No.
20:45 Tene I do!
20:45 pmichaud Do I get wings?  Will I be able to fly?
20:45 moritz pmichaud: you will, armored wings even. Like camelia ;-)
20:46 allison I want pixie dust, to sprinkle on difficult bugs ;)
20:47 NotFound treed: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kg5nN9S2qTk
20:47 moritz allison: oh you don't have that? now I'm disappointed
20:47 pmichaud we had some, but we ran out.
20:47 Tene pmichaud: I have a vague memory that I was supposed to do something with HLL namespace imports... maybe from japhb... did I do that yet?
20:48 pmichaud Tene: I think we're both supposed to be doing something with it.  I'll definitely be reviewing the whole thing tomorrow and/or Thu
20:48 Lorn joined #parrot
20:48 allison we're working on a secret underground project to artificially manufacture more using only carrots and newts
20:49 treed NotFound: Um, wow.
20:49 * NotFound likes Iginio Straffi woks
20:51 japhb Tene: There's the problem of 'use OpenGL::Math:from<parrot>;' and then trying to instantiate an 'OpenGL::Math::Vec4' and instead getting FAIL.  Is that the problem to which you refer?
20:51 Tene Yeah, that sounds right.
20:51 pmichaud I'd work on it today, but I have a new toy to play with.
20:51 japhb Ping me if you need anything (more details, testing, whatever)
20:51 japhb pmichaud: new toy?
20:51 purl new toy is G4?
20:51 pmichaud japhb: ssd drive for the notebook
20:52 japhb pmichaud: ah!  Which one?
20:52 pmichaud intel 80GB
20:52 pmichaud x18-m
20:52 Tene I'd work on it today, but I'm behind at work, and there's socialization scheduled for tonight.
20:52 japhb nice
20:52 ascent joined #parrot
20:52 pmichaud so far very fast.  I'll have some timings here shortly -- have to reinstall operating systems and the like.
20:56 PerlJam pmichaud: we got some SSDs at work. /away
20:56 PerlJam oops
20:58 mikehh_ joined #parrot
20:59 particle cotto: it may make sense to modify NEWS to list changes since 1.0, augmenting or superseding changes since 1.3.
20:59 PerlJam pm: anyway.  The ones we got don't seem particularly low-power but they are about 50% faster based on my ad hoc timings
21:00 particle i moved my swapfile and virtual machines to a 48GB SSD on my laptop, noticeable difference in pep
21:02 iblechbot joined #parrot
21:25 dalek cardinal: c99d2b3 | (Ted Reed)++ | src/classes/Hash.pir:
21:25 dalek cardinal: Add methods to CardinalHash for checking whether a key exists/has a value.
21:25 dalek cardinal: review: http://github.com/cardinal/cardinal/commit​/c99d2b303c1cf2a8c4b95a93b0b98ceefb3a555c
21:25 dalek cardinal: 2cedd29 | (Ted Reed)++ | src/classes/Array.pir:
21:25 dalek cardinal: Implement - operator for CardinalArray.
21:25 dalek cardinal: review: http://github.com/cardinal/cardinal/commit​/2cedd2913db37b4b4c00bc951d032cac2fac1d7b
21:28 Whiteknight joined #parrot
21:38 mokurai joined #parrot
21:46 treed Huh. Had no idea my commits were being echoed here.
21:48 cotto particle, good idea
21:48 cotto except that it means more work for me ;)
21:49 particle yeah, you have to write an email requesting the thundering herd to help you write it :)
21:50 cotto allison, ping
21:50 allison cotto, pong
21:51 cotto allison, what happened with tewk?
21:51 allison cotto: he got a substantial grant from the university that left no time for GSOC
21:51 moritz it would have been nice to announce that, at least
21:52 allison cotto: I talked with the GSOC admins, so he's just been withdrawn from the program
21:52 cotto thanks
21:52 cotto It's good to know that he didn't flake out.  That'd be unlike someone who's contributed to Parrot already.
21:53 cotto His grant doesn't have anything to do with Parrot, does it?
21:53 * cotto hopes
22:17 mokurai joined #parrot
22:20 Whiteknight cotto: excellent email to the list!
22:34 kid51 joined #parrot
22:36 rg1 joined #parrot
22:43 bacek joined #parrot
22:46 cotto Whiteknight, thanks.
22:52 bacek Good morning
22:52 purl And good moroning to you, bacek.
23:07 skids joined #parrot
23:09 Whiteknight good morning bacek
23:09 bacek good morning Whiteknight
23:09 Whiteknight brb (switching to windows partition)
23:15 whiteknight joined #parrot
23:16 * whiteknight is going to try to build Parrot again with 64-bit CL on windows
23:16 cotto living on the wild side
23:17 whiteknight I do it for the lulz
23:18 whiteknight my friend and I were talking about starting our own server colocation hosting service, and we were going to name the company "TEH INTERNETZ"
23:20 dalek parrot: r40089 | jkeenan++ | branches/tt509_install_files:
23:20 dalek parrot: Creating tt509_install_files in https://svn.parrot.org/parrot/branches
23:20 dalek parrot: review: https://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/40089/
23:20 donaldh joined #parrot
23:24 * bacek created ticket for NQP and decommute to $dayjob
23:24 bacek See you soon.
23:25 dalek TT #837 created by bacek++: [DEPRECATED] NQP quoting rules going to be close to Perl6.
23:30 whiteknight joined #parrot
23:30 kid51 Smolder down (again) :-(
23:31 whiteknight kid51: I have to manually edit the compiler flags without reconfiguring. Where do I do that?
23:32 treed export CPPFLAGS?
23:32 treed Or the like.
23:32 treed Assuming it's a C++ compiler.
23:32 whiteknight I'm on Windows, so who knows what will work
23:32 treed Oh.
23:32 treed Good luck, sir.
23:33 cotto whiteknight, you mean like editing the Makefile manually?
23:33 whiteknight I guess, is that where the build flags are stored?
23:34 whiteknight I'm on windows, and I need to build with the flag "/GS-", but somewhere configure helpfully changed that to "\GS-" and now it doesnt work
23:41 whiteknight yay, it's building!
23:42 whiteknight if everything miraculously goes my way for the rest of the night, we may have a "real" win64 smoke report soon
23:45 kid51 whiteknight:  Can you clarify your request?
23:46 whiteknight oh nevermind, I figured it out
23:46 whiteknight I had to edit the makefile directly
23:46 * kid51 notes that his Linux disk is 99% full
23:46 kid51 Well, perhaps we should figure out where that originated.   That might be a configuration bug.
23:47 kid51 whiteknight:  And since you're on Windows ... could you test the tt509_install_files branch per the instructions in the latest post to TT #509?
23:48 kid51 Actually... anyone on Win32 who can test that, that would be appreciated.
23:48 kid51 ccache -C cleans up 23% of my drive!
23:49 whiteknight I'm not on Win32, I'm on Win64 and I can't even build trunk
23:49 * kid51 has never encountered Win64
23:49 whiteknight that's because it doesn't work
23:49 kid51 whiteknight  Don't you have enough on your plate that you shouldn't be attempting to get that OS working?
23:50 kid51 Which is more important:  Win64 or Parrot GC?
23:50 kid51 Huh? huh?
23:51 whiteknight kid51: I have to bounce around to different projects occasionally, or I'll go insane
23:51 chromatic http://www.gamedev.net/community/​forums/topic.asp?topic_id=496643
23:51 whiteknight plus we have the release coming up soon, and I would love to add a new entry to PLATFORMS
23:53 chromatic http://social.msdn.microsoft.com/forums/en-US/vcge​neral/thread/8846b4fb-6880-4583-a222-fe7c6615b66a/
23:55 mokurai joined #parrot
23:56 kid51 Well, I can't find any relevant string 'GS' in the config/
23:56 kid51 So I don't know where it's coming from.
23:57 chromatic Probably an environment variable.
23:57 whiteknight kid51: I'm adding it
23:57 whiteknight I specify it to Configure.pl
23:58 kid51 k
23:58 kid51 But then perhaps we need a way to preserve that OS-specific backslash.
23:58 kid51 *Not* that we need worry about that in the next 7 days.
23:59 * whiteknight will file a bug, to be dealt with at our leisure

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