Camelia, the Perl 6 bug

IRC log for #parrot, 2009-07-22

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Time Nick Message
00:01 Whiteknight joined #parrot
00:02 dalek TT #108 closed by jkeenan++: remove Data::Replace?
00:02 dalek parrot: r40206 | jkeenan++ | trunk (3 files):
00:02 dalek parrot: Remove Data::Replace per https://trac.parrot.org/parrot/ticket/108.
00:02 dalek parrot: review: https://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/40206/
00:06 dalek parrot: r40207 | jkeenan++ | trunk/config/gen/makefiles/root.in:
00:06 dalek parrot: Remove 'make' target fulltest_all.  Cf.:  https://trac.parrot.org/parrot/ticket/862.
00:06 Austin joined #parrot
00:06 dalek parrot: review: https://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/40207/
00:06 Austin Hello, parrot.
00:07 Austin ping pmichaud
00:07 purl I can't find pmichaud in the DNS.
00:07 Austin Thanks, purl.
00:07 purl no worries Austin
00:08 hercynium joined #parrot
00:09 Austin purl message pmichaud Did your commit #39895 (https://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/39895) -- a fix for tt#803 (bad register generation for attribute lookups of register vars) make it into trunk?
00:09 purl Message for pmichaud stored.
00:09 Austin Thanks purl
00:09 dalek TT #862 closed by jkeenan++: remove fulltest_all make target
00:10 pmichaud Austin: I'm pretty sure it did, as I don't recall committing it to a branch
00:10 Austin joined #parrot
00:10 pmichaud 39895 shows that it was changed in trunk
00:10 Austin Did I just miss pmichaud?
00:10 Austin Yes.
00:10 Austin Hello, pmichaud.
00:11 Austin Hmm.
00:12 cotto nice
00:13 Austin Hello, cotto.
00:15 kid51 Coke:  no make testb failures for me at r40286 Linux i386.
00:15 cotto Coke, same here
00:17 Coke alrightee. must be related to removing jsr.
00:17 Coke thanks.
00:23 dalek rakudo: 78644a3 | pmichaud++ |  (2 files):
00:23 dalek rakudo: Add Junction.Str, update Makefile.
00:23 dalek rakudo: review: http://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/7​8644a3e81b197b6517529808d8b0f3bcc75254f
00:25 patspam joined #parrot
00:26 treed Is there a way to tell, from a method in NQP, what method is the next highest? (IOW, how it got there?)
00:27 treed I'm seeing an odd issue where according to --target=parse, a rule is only being used once. But with debug output from the actions.pm, I'm seeing that it's getting called twice.
00:28 Whiteknight hello Austin
00:28 Whiteknight hello treed
00:29 pmichaud treed:  that often means there are multiple {*}'s in the rule
00:29 pmichaud it also may depend on what is happening inside the action method
00:29 treed Getting called twice with different data.
00:30 treed Hi Whiteknight.
00:30 GeJ Good morning porters
00:30 pmichaud what about --target=past ?
00:30 pmichaud treed:  anyway, you're asking for a backtrace, and no, we don't quite have it yet.
00:30 treed Nothing indicating why it would run lhs again.
00:30 treed Damn.
00:31 treed Processing a as an lhs.
00:31 treed Got a as an lhs.
00:31 treed Processing puts as an lhs.
00:31 treed That's the debug output.
00:31 treed "puts" is never given to assignment as an lhs
00:31 GeJ cotto: FYI about the intermittent failure I told you yesterday on my amd64 box (FreeBSD), I wasn't able to reproduce it on an i386 setup.
00:31 treed And assignment is the only rule that uses lhs.
00:31 pmichaud this is one reason why I'm hoping to get backtraces from non-exceptions.
00:31 Whiteknight good morning GeJ
00:31 treed Can I get a backtrace if I throw an exception?
00:31 pmichaud yes, but currently it requires some extra code to display it
00:31 treed Ah.
00:31 pmichaud I'm hoping to have that extra code built-in to PCT soon.
00:32 pmichaud I've added it to my task list.
00:32 GeJ heya Whiteknight. How's life treating you?
00:33 Whiteknight GeJ: absolutely fantastic
00:35 GeJ glad to hear that.
00:37 Whiteknight how bout you? Things going well?
00:37 wayland76 joined #parrot
00:38 Austin joined #parrot
00:39 wayland76 I have a question.  I downloaded the parrot 1.4 release, and noted that there's no "ports" directory
00:39 wayland76 Is that because it's a release, or has something happened to "ports"?
00:42 dalek parrot: r40208 | whiteknight++ | trunk (5 files):
00:42 dalek parrot: [gc_options_remove] apply patch from kid51++ for the gc_options_remove branch. Required some tweaking of file names to match things that have changed in the GC in recent months. For TT #490
00:42 dalek parrot: review: https://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/40208/
00:42 GeJ Whiteknight: I've known better. $job is currently about porting parts of a C# app to Perl. The only comforting part is to have the confirmation that barely-competent-monkey'ing is not a Java exclusivity.
00:42 Whiteknight oh, that sounds fun. Most of what I do at work is C#.
00:42 bacek joined #parrot
00:43 GeJ wayland76: ports still seems to be in svn. I'd say that the directory is removed from the release tarball. better ask cotto or a previous release manager for a definitive answer.
00:44 wayland76 Hmm.  Well, it makes the releases useless to me.
00:44 wayland76 Ok, I'll continue investigating.  Thanks :)
00:45 Whiteknight I think the releases get packaged for mac ports separately and released for that platform separately by a packager
00:45 Whiteknight Infinoid: ping
00:45 dalek parrot: r40209 | whiteknight++ | branches/gc_options_remove:
00:45 dalek parrot: Removing branch created by kid51++ and committed to trunk in r40208
00:45 dalek parrot: review: https://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/40209/
00:45 dalek TT #490 closed by whiteknight++: Remove support for non-default config options for Configure.pl's --gc
00:45 wayland76 Well, ok, but I'm using Fedora
00:46 wayland76 and the most recent Fedora packages are 0.9
00:46 Whiteknight oh, that's what I meant. It's packaged for different systems independently of the release
00:46 Whiteknight not just mac
00:46 Whiteknight I thought there was a more recent Fedora package, I wonder who has been responsible for making packages on that system
00:47 wayland76 Ok.  I'm hoping to get it to the point where a release can be automatically turned into a package.
00:47 Infinoid Whiteknight: hi!
00:47 wayland76 There have been more recent RPMs built, but the Parrot site doesn't link to them
00:48 Whiteknight Infinoid: I want to get io_cleanups locked down and committed ASAP, it's stagnating
00:49 Whiteknight maybe we need to create a diff and take a look at what all has really changed
00:49 dalek parrot: r40210 | whiteknight++ | trunk/DEPRECATED.pod:
00:49 dalek parrot: [DEPRECATED] remove the GC-related stuff, since that was just removed from trunk
00:49 dalek parrot: review: https://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/40210/
00:51 Infinoid Whiteknight: You're right.  Unfortunately I'm pretty buried in work this week, how's the weekend look for you?
00:52 Whiteknight On saturday I'm in NYC for a wikiconvention, but should have some sporadic hacking time then. Plus, free all day Sunday
00:53 cotto wayland76, make release VERSION=x.y.z is the target that creates the tarball.  I know it removes DEVELOPING, so it probably also removes ports.
00:55 wayland76 cotto: I see the line in the makefile that removes DEVELOPING, and there's no mention of ports
00:55 wayland76 config/gen/makefiles/root.in
00:55 purl config/gen/makefiles/root.in is, like, what generates parrot/Makefile
00:56 cotto It looks like ports isn't in MANIFEST
00:57 pmichaud japhb: ping
00:57 wayland76 Right.  So does that mean it's just an oversight?
01:00 darbelo wayland76: It might not be. I think the tarball is targeted at users, not packagers.
01:00 dalek rakudo: 21066f1 | pmichaud++ | src/setting/Any- (3 files):
01:00 dalek rakudo: Fix boxing of strings in .flip, .join, .lc, .uc, and others.
01:00 dalek rakudo: Resolves RT #66300.
01:00 dalek rakudo: review: http://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/2​1066f14cfa2bf5774b2302e80d805e15383786f
01:01 wayland76 Ah, they're in MANIFEST.SKIP
01:02 wayland76 darbelo: Well, as a user, I like to get my tarball and go "rpmbuild -ba <tarball>" and have it build automatically
01:03 wayland76 So as a user, I'm finding the releases completely useless :(
01:03 dalek parrot: r40211 | whiteknight++ | branches/bsr_jsr_ret:
01:03 dalek parrot: [bsr_jsr_ret] creating a branch to remove these three opcodes
01:03 dalek parrot: review: https://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/40211/
01:05 pmichaud afk (returning to OSCON venue)
01:05 bacek Whiteknight: don't forget to update vim syntax file after removing opcodes :)
01:05 cotto wayland76, file a tt.  I'm not familiar with what's in ports, but it sounds like its exclusion could use some discussion.
01:06 cotto That and the emacs file should probably be generated.
01:06 cotto That might make a good newbie task.
01:07 darbelo wayland76: In the mean time, you culd check out the release as tagged in svn and generate your rmps from there.
01:08 wayland76 cotto: Ok, will do
01:08 wayland76 darbelo: Good idea; I'll try that
01:10 jdv79 where are the pcc rework plans?
01:11 theory joined #parrot
01:11 dalek parrot: r40212 | whiteknight++ | branches/bsr_jsr_ret (3 files):
01:11 dalek parrot: [bsr_jsr_ret] remove jsr opcode
01:11 dalek parrot: review: https://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/40212/
01:14 dalek parrot: r40213 | whiteknight++ | branches/bsr_jsr_ret (3 files):
01:14 dalek parrot: [bsr_jsr_ret] remove more references to jsr
01:14 dalek parrot: review: https://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/40213/
01:15 Whiteknight jdv79: inside Allison's head, I think
01:15 dalek TT #873 created by wayland++: Blanket ports exclusion needs discussion
01:18 dalek parrot: r40214 | whiteknight++ | branches/bsr_jsr_ret/src/ops (2 files):
01:18 dalek parrot: [bsr_jsr_ret] on my signal, unleash hell: Remove the bsr and ret opcodes
01:18 dalek parrot: review: https://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/40214/
01:18 * cotto waits for Whiteknight's signal
01:19 cotto The release is out.  Let's blow stuff up!
01:19 mikehh Whiteknight: just checking out your wiki/blog, haven't checked it for a few days - really like your Scheduler object concept
01:19 cotto well, more stuff. ;)
01:20 kid51 Hmm, all my 1.5 milestone tickets are closed.
01:20 mikehh cotto: I thought the release went particularly well
01:20 cotto Thanks.  I liked it when other release managers said what they were going to do, so I tried to do a lot of that.
01:20 * kid51 thought the release went particularly well because he slept right through it ;-)
01:21 Whiteknight this bsr/ret stuff is a lot more prevalent then I thought it was
01:21 Whiteknight and removing them from PIR code isn't exactly a straightforward transformation
01:21 cotto Yeah.  I love waking up to a release too.
01:21 cotto afk
01:22 wayland76 kid51: Have you any further thoughts on https://trac.parrot.org/parrot/ticket/712 ? :)
01:22 mikehh transformations are *never* as straightforward as you think at first
01:23 jimmy joined #parrot
01:23 jimmy hello
01:23 jimmy Function Renaming , # cx: concurrency scheduler. is it wrong?
01:24 jimmy I think it is cs
01:24 jimmy ps: from https://trac.parrot.org/pa​rrot/wiki/APIFuncRenaming
01:25 japhb pmichaud: pong
01:25 kid51 wayland76:  I was hoping that that would get cleared up as part of the larger work on install issues that pmichaud and particle were discussing at YAPC.
01:26 kid51 I know that in the following week's discussion on #parrotsketch, there was heavy discussion between pmichaud and allison about those issues.
01:26 kid51 And I was hoping for some clear resolution.
01:26 kid51 But I don't have clarity yet.
01:26 wayland76 ok
01:27 kid51 I believe allison got *some* issues resolved, but I don't know how much agreement they had on the issues pmichaud raised in his post on list.
01:27 mikehh they are both at OSCON are they not?
01:27 kid51 yes
01:27 kid51 though allison may be there in her capacity as an O'Reilly person
01:28 kid51 pmichaud is there as speaker/attendee
01:28 mikehh yeah - but they might just get some face-to-face discussion
01:29 wayland76 Any idea roughly when the parrotsketch discussion was?
01:30 wayland76 ie. which month, and whether it was towards the start or the end?
01:30 kid51 let's see ... probably June 30
01:30 kid51 week after YAPC
01:30 wayland76 looking...
01:31 kid51 Patrick's July 8 post to parrot-dev is also important
01:31 Whiteknight purl msg jimmy the concurrency scheduler is "cx", not "cs".
01:31 purl Message for jimmy stored.
01:33 kid51 wayland76:  Try this:  http://irclog.perlgeek.de/parrotsketch/2009-06-30
01:33 kid51 ... starting at about 18:45
01:35 wayland76 I was up to 18:39 when you posted this :).  Thanks
01:35 kid51 wayland76:  Added 'component: install' to your ticket.  pmichaud will pick it up when he searches
01:36 kid51 This is a problem we face which is probably endemic to distributed open-source projects ...
01:37 kid51 viz., that when the core project leaders don't yet have a consensus about how to proceed on some issue, ...
01:37 kid51 ... it's difficult to break down that issue into steps that can be tackled by other developers
01:38 wayland76 ah, thanks :)
01:40 kid51 I agree with you that I hope allison and pmichaud can meet up at OSCON.  allison's injury prevented her from coming to YAPC and that was a big loss in what was otherwise a very productive (for parrot) experience
01:40 dukeleto joined #parrot
01:41 * kid51 afk
01:42 wayland76 I still haven't gotten a handle on what they don't agree on.  Will keep reading tickets...
01:50 darbelo left #parrot
01:52 Whiteknight goodnight #parrot
01:53 dalek parrot: r40215 | whiteknight++ | branches/bsr_jsr_ret (2 files):
01:53 dalek parrot: [bsr_jsr_ret] remove bsr/ret from two PCT-related library files. Build still doesn't complete but gets further. Need to test these things to make sure I haven't ruined anything
01:53 dalek parrot: review: https://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/40215/
01:58 pmichaud (install) I think allison and I are in basic agreement on the direction parrot will take
01:58 pmichaud it's summarized in my Jul 8 post to parrot-dev
02:00 pmichaud message Whiteknight  note that it's also possible to remove bsr/ret by using local_branch and local_return, instead of creating separate Parrot subs for it
02:00 purl Message for whiteknight stored.
02:07 kid51 What's the command in gdb to run a .pir file to get a backtrace?
02:09 pmichaud run x.pir
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02:09 kid51 (gdb) run t/compilers/imcc/syn/macro_25.pir
02:09 kid51 Starting program:  t/compilers/imcc/syn/macro_25.pir
02:09 kid51 No executable file specified.
02:09 kid51 Use the "file" or "exec-file" command.
02:09 kid51 Why doesn't that work?
02:10 pmichaud how did you invoke gdb?
02:10 pmichaud it should be   "gdb parrot"
02:11 pmichaud normally I do:
02:11 pmichaud $ gdb ./parrot
02:11 pmichaud (gdb) run foo.pir
02:13 kid51 thx.  updating http://rt.perl.org/rt3/Tic​ket/Display.html?id=60926
02:19 tetragon joined #parrot
02:20 japhb pmichaud: are you still looking for me?
02:28 pmichaud japhb: just wanted to give you a "heads up" to my response on parrot-dev :-)
02:29 japhb ah.  I'm just finishingmy response to you.  :-)
02:29 pmichaud okay!
02:29 pmichaud we can haz profitable dizcussion?!
02:29 pmichaud is that allowed on parrot-dev?!?
02:29 pmichaud :-)
02:30 japhb heh
02:35 theory joined #parrot
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02:44 wayland76 kid51: What needs to happen to https://trac.parrot.org/parrot/ticket/788 ?  Do we just need to update the PDD?  And if so, am I right in guessing that it's PDD30 that needs updating?
02:46 wayland76 pmichaud: Just out of interest, what's your objection to multiple make files?  Is it that it makes it harder to search?  Or that there is duplicated information?  Or something else?
02:48 kid51 wayland76:  AFAICT, if PDD30 were updated to reflect allison's concerns in her 2nd paragraph, the ticket would be closable
02:48 * kid51 must sleep
02:48 purl $kid51->sleep(8 * 3600);
02:49 japhb pmichaud: After many interruptions, reply sent.  :-)
02:53 pmichaud japhb: it's likely to be very difficult to optimize the for loop the way you've done it
02:53 pmichaud (in Perl 6, at least)
02:55 pmichaud not impossible, but not something we're likely to be able to do by 2.0
02:55 japhb pmichaud: Oh sure.  My point was that I got 24x out of the work I did on that loop.  Even getting only a few of those optimizations should show significant improvement, more than just a few percent.  I'd be very surprised if PCT optimizations could not get 2x to 4x.
02:55 pmichaud sure, but you're also measuring far more than the cost of a sub
02:55 pmichaud because in Rakudo that sub involves a *huge* amount of binding overhead due to the PCC issues
02:56 japhb Even if someone managed to just get 2x (averaged across the board) by the time 2.0 came out, I'd be happy -- because not only is the improvement in and of itself valuable, but we'd then have the structure in place to do more significant work during 2010.
02:57 pmichaud okay.  But I don't think avoiding the sub call is going to be likely for Rakudo.
02:57 pmichaud It's very likely for other languages.
02:57 pmichaud NQP will be doing it.
02:57 pmichaud NQP will probably be doing it before 1.5.
02:57 japhb pmichaud: Don't focus too much on just my single point about scope == sub.  The other optimization types are at least as important in my mind.
02:57 japhb Awesome!
02:57 purl hmmm... awesome is a window manager or at http://awesome.naquadah.org or awesome!
02:58 pmichaud But it requires more information than PCT has available at the moment
02:58 pmichaud and I'm not sure it can be generically done for dynamic languages
02:58 pmichaud we'll have to see
03:00 japhb fair enough.  I still think you'd be surprised about the value of constant propagation, avoiding double loads, etc.
03:01 japhb The PIR produced by the Perl version of that loop was eye-opening to me.
03:01 pmichaud rakudo is very non-representative there, though.
03:02 pmichaud because of all of the dynamic things it has to be able to support.
03:02 pmichaud yes, I do plan to move constants out of loops also soon -- likely before 1.6.  It got a DEPRECATION notice.
03:07 pmichaud anyway, to your overall point -- yes, I totally agree we should look at optimizations.
03:08 pmichaud but what I've discovered in working with dynamic languages and a dynamic environment like Parrot is that the "obvious" places for optimizations actually turn out to not be optimizations, or require a heck of a lot of high-level language knowledge
03:09 pmichaud I think I should shut up now.  :-)
03:19 wayland76 ...or maybe *before* you proved that you were the ideal person to do it :)
03:19 bacek pmichaud: (in continue of optimisations) How hard to add self-hosted bootstrap to PCT?
03:19 japhb pmichaud: sorry, called away by $family
03:19 tetragon joined #parrot
03:20 bacek e.g. writing any optimisations in PIR will be painful.
03:20 bacek So, instead of doing it, implement "optimisations steps" for PCT using NQP.
03:21 * treed actually prefers to write in PIR vs. NQP.
03:21 pmichaud Oh, I expect PCT to be rewritten in NQP at some point.
03:21 pmichaud Possibly even by 2.0.
03:21 pmichaud NQP is going to get a *ton* of changes over the next few months.
03:22 wayland76 Only one ton? :)
03:22 pmichaud Only one.
03:22 bacek Yeah. And I've got few kilograms for this ton :)
03:22 japhb pmichaud: How much value and effort would be involved in having HLLs provide PCT with more info about what optimizations are allowed?  A friend of mine posited last week being able to tell a dynamic language compiler that you explicitly *weren't* going to be dynamic in particular ways in a particular lexical/dynamic scope pair, so optimizations that used to be off the table could then be done.
03:22 tetragon joined #parrot
03:23 pmichaud japhb: that's the direction I think we'll ultimately be heading, yes.
03:24 pmichaud For example, I expect PAST::Val to have flags on it that indicate when it's safe to re-use a register and avoid extra find_lex calls.
03:25 pmichaud (and blocks can say "all of my variables are bind-safe, so fetch once and re-use the register afterwards")
03:25 japhb pmichaud: This was brought on by the blog post by (I believe) a Ruby-on-Java implementor who posted an extended explanation of why the maximum performance of a Ruby implementation was inversely proportional to the compliance of said implementation to the "spec" of standard Ruby.  To which he said, "Well, why couldn't I put a pragma in my code to tell the compiler I didn't *need* strict adherence to the spec, that in fact I was willing to g
03:25 japhb ive up guarantees A, B, C, and D, and to give me back the performance lost when providing those guarantees instead?"
03:25 japhb pmichaud: Ah, good.
03:27 pmichaud anyway, isntead of looking at optimizing what Rakudo produces, I think a simpler stage would be to optimize what NQP produces :-)
03:27 pmichaud and yes, NQP will have sub-avoidance
03:27 japhb good.
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03:29 pmichaud NQP has a lot more options for optimization than Rakudo does
03:29 pmichaud otoh, Rakudo is the place where optimizations (for other dynamic languages) will matter
03:30 japhb I'm not sure I understand, unless you meant s/Rakudo/PCT/g
03:30 pmichaud Rakudo is at the other extreme
03:30 pmichaud NQP is highly optimizable, because it's the "least dynamic"
03:30 bacek Convert PAST to SSA form can give more optimisation opportunities.
03:30 pmichaud it also has the most constraints
03:31 japhb Nod, but what did you mean by "otoh, Rakudo is the place where optimizations (for other dynamic languages) will matter"?
03:31 pmichaud Rakudo has the least optimization opportunties and the fewest constraints
03:31 bacek "Constant folding", CSE, Function inlining, etc.
03:32 pmichaud therefore, figuring out optmizations that can work for Rakudo will be useful to lots of languages
03:32 japhb gotcha
03:32 pmichaud basically, if we have a spectrum
03:32 pmichaud NQP .....  other dynamic languages .....  Rakudo
03:33 tetragon joined #parrot
03:33 pmichaud then it's easiest to come up with potential optimizations for NQP, some of which will help some dynamic languages and many of which won't help Rakudo
03:33 pmichaud if we can come up with optimizations that work for Rakudo, then they should be applicable to many dynamic languages, but they're harder to come up with
03:34 japhb yup, I understand now.
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04:42 wayland76 There's someone called "jerry" who I'd like to comment on ticket 92 ( https://trac.parrot.org/parrot/ticket/92 ).  Does anyone know how I get in contact with him?
04:43 cotto wayland76, you mean particle aka jerry gay?
04:45 wayland76 Probably :)
04:45 wayland76 particle: Are you able to comment on https://trac.parrot.org/parrot/ticket/92
04:46 wayland76 Coke is the one who posted his name into ticket 92, so he's the most likely person to be able to comment sensibly on this
05:02 particle1 joined #parrot
05:03 wayland76 particle1: Are you able to comment on https://trac.parrot.org/parrot/ticket/92 ?
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06:36 dalek cardinal: 4e749b6 | (Ted Reed)++ |  (2 files):
06:36 dalek cardinal: Implement Array.collect!; test included.
06:36 dalek cardinal: review: http://github.com/cardinal/cardinal/commit​/4e749b6eb6a092c34a96c80a0c1741d05bfb820a
06:36 dalek cardinal: 04e7817 | (Ted Reed)++ |  (2 files):
06:36 dalek cardinal: Implemented Array.delete_at and Array.delete_if. Tests included
06:36 dalek cardinal: review: http://github.com/cardinal/cardinal/commit​/04e7817f7afcc8b5dd0e13fe907f9c0532494b64
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07:13 wayland76 do we have a messaging bot?
07:14 TiMBuS wayland76, yes, purl can leave messages for people
07:14 moritz wayland76: aye, purl msg $nick $msg
07:15 moritz iirc
07:15 wayland76 purl: msg particle1 Are you able to comment on https://trac.parrot.org/parrot/ticket/92 ?
07:15 purl Message for particle1 stored.
07:15 wayland76 Thanks :)
07:18 dalek rakudo: 7b81c05 | moritz++ | src/setting/Num.pm:
07:18 dalek rakudo: the :Trig tag is gone from spec, remove it.
07:18 dalek rakudo: review: http://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/7​b81c0590b4c371ba32f9998a35be5c48d6039e3
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07:20 mikehh codetest FAIL, All Others PASS  (pre/post config, smolder, fulltest) at r40215 - Ubuntu 9.04 amd64
07:25 wayland76 Who do I ask whether I can have more powers in Trac?
07:25 nopaste "mikehh" at 86.149.232.155 pasted "codetest failures at r40215" (45 lines) at http://nopaste.snit.ch/17356
07:25 wayland76 (I just want to be able to change some of the ticket metadata)
07:32 szabgab I need some help here , I am finally trying to integrate the PBC based code highlighting into Padre. we have it for perl 6 already but I have not tried it with anything else
07:32 szabgab can you recommend me which project is the easiest to compile ?
07:33 szabgab is it possible to compile them with a parrot that was built by rakodo ?
07:36 moritz last time I looked, checking out cardinal (ruby) into parrot/languages/cardinal and then 'perl Configure.pl && make' went smooth
07:36 moritz don't know if that matches your idea of "easy"
07:37 szabgab yeah that sounds good
07:38 nopaste "mikehh" at 86.149.232.155 pasted "first PATCH for codetest failures in r40125" (13 lines) at http://nopaste.snit.ch/17357
07:40 mikehh podchecker passes for the patch
07:43 szabgab moritz, that worked, great, thanks
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07:44 szabgab is there an accepeted env variable such as CARDINAL_DIR that could/should point to the directory of cardinal?
07:55 cotto mikehh, thank
07:55 cotto thanks, even
07:57 dalek parrot: r40216 | cotto++ | trunk/config/auto/gc.pm:
07:57 dalek parrot: [codingstd] fix some broken POD, patch courtesy of mikehh++
07:57 dalek parrot: review: https://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/40216/
08:02 mikehh the second failure I think is the test data rather that the c
08:03 mikehh checking now
08:08 mikehh yup  - passes test - pasting now
08:10 nopaste "mikehh" at 86.149.232.155 pasted "second PATCH for codetest failures in r40125" (12 lines) at http://nopaste.snit.ch/17358
08:12 mikehh that's interesting - if you add a c prog you need both the c "pod" and need to add data to the test
08:28 cotto mikehh, thanks again
08:30 dalek parrot: r40217 | cotto++ | trunk/t/codingstd/c_function_docs.t:
08:30 dalek parrot: [codingstd] add pbc_info to c_function_docs.t, patch courtesy of mikehh++
08:30 dalek parrot: review: https://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/40217/
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08:37 mj41 Hi. Sorry, TapTinder and ttbot are gone until Friday. Server Room Air Conditioning failed. :-(
08:44 cotto ouch
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09:47 darkwolf hi
09:48 mikehh hi
09:49 rob hi
09:49 purl niihau, rob.
09:50 darkwolf I have problem compiling last parrot from svn rep
09:51 mikehh what platfornm - what dis it complain about
09:51 mikehh s/dis/did/
09:51 darkwolf it ends with ./md4.c:61:75: error: invalid suffix "PARROT_DYNEXT_EXPORT" on integer constant
09:51 darkwolf make[1]: *** [md4.o] Error 1
09:51 darkwolf amd64
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09:54 bacek_ o hai
09:54 mikehh did you make clean/realclean
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09:55 darkwolf i just made rm -rf
09:55 darkwolf it's lame but works ;)
09:57 darkwolf so it's in clean new snap
09:59 mikehh I just built on r40217 - Ubuntu 9.04 amd64
10:00 darkwolf mine is 40185
10:00 darkwolf ok
10:00 bacek_ darkwolf: can you nopaste md4.c?
10:00 darkwolf I'll check it again
10:00 bacek_ nopaste?
10:00 purl nopaste is at http://nopaste.snit.ch/ (ask TonyC for new channels) or http://poundperl.pastebin.com/ or http://paste.scsys.co.uk/ or App::Nopaste or tools/dev/nopaste.pl or at http://www.extpaste.com/ or http://paste.scsys.co.uk (for #catalyst, #dbix-class, #moose  and others) or http://gist.github.com/ or paste or gtfo
10:00 bacek_ purl: nopaste?
10:00 purl hmmm... nopaste is at http://nopaste.snit.ch/ (ask TonyC for new channels) or http://poundperl.pastebin.com/ or http://paste.scsys.co.uk/ or App::Nopaste or tools/dev/nopaste.pl or at http://www.extpaste.com/ or http://paste.scsys.co.uk (for #catalyst, #dbix-class, #moose  and others) or http://gist.github.com/ or paste or gtfo
10:01 darkwolf ok
10:01 bacek_ Bah!
10:01 darkwolf just a moment
10:01 bacek_ http://nopaste.snit.ch/
10:08 mikehh I had no problem with r40185 - built ok - All tests PASSed inc fulltest
10:14 darkwolf the file md4.c has wrong encoding so gedit can't open it
10:14 darkwolf i have to use nano less or something like that
10:15 bacek_ darkwolf: use cat.
10:16 mikehh All tests PASS (pre/post config, smolder, fulltest) at r40217 - Ubuntu 9.04 amd64
10:17 darkwolf one stupid question
10:17 darkwolf how to get all the file from cat and copy it
10:18 mikehh cat filename > out.file
10:19 darkwolf it's the same
10:19 darkwolf some of the characters r not valid
10:21 bacek_ darkwolf: hmm... md4.c shouldn't have any "weird" characters. It's plain ASCII...
10:21 darkwolf i know
10:21 darkwolf it should be c code
10:24 mikehh I think that that file is corrupt
10:25 darkwolf yes
10:27 darkwolf is md4.c generated?
10:28 bacek_ yes.
10:28 bacek_ double generated actually
10:29 bacek_ first is src/dynpmc/md4.pmc
10:29 bacek_ second is md4.c by itself
10:29 bacek_ darkwolf: do you have openssl devel libs installed?
10:31 darkwolf i have openssl 0.9.8k-2
10:31 darkwolf is that dev version
10:32 mikehh md4.c is generated from md4.pmc in the build process
10:34 mikehh you alsao need libssl.dev
10:34 mikehh s/alsao/also/
10:34 darkwolf my computer is acting weird
10:35 darkwolf sorry bodering u
10:36 darkwolf now it's fine
10:36 mikehh not a problem - always try to help if I can
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12:10 whiteknight good morning #parrot
12:10 pmichaud good morning $whiteknight
12:10 whiteknight thanks about the local_branch note, I've never used that opcode before
12:10 pmichaud PGE uses it heavily
12:11 whiteknight okay, I'll look into that then. Thanks!
12:12 pmichaud essentially you just need a resizable integer array that it can use to store program counters in
12:15 whiteknight after I get rid of jsr/bsr/ret, I'm ripping out the last vestiges of stacks in Parrot
12:22 moritz MANIFEST?
12:22 purl MANIFEST is, like, used for a ton of things, yes
12:22 whiteknight it will be happy days
12:26 whiteknight purl, no MANIFEST is a major hassle that's designed to break Configure.pl
12:26 purl OK, whiteknight.
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12:49 Coke (mac ports) that's me.
12:49 Coke Happy to take an updated ports file that works.
12:51 Coke japhb: Feel free, btw, to try to optimize partcl. =-)
12:55 Coke ports are done post release, not pre-release, so including the ports files in the release is problematic.
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13:24 wayland76 Who do I ask if I want more Trac permissions (so I can edit ticket metadata)
13:25 Coke what's your trac id?
13:28 wayland76 It appears to be "wayland"
13:29 Coke I just gave you TICKET_MODIFY
13:31 wayland76 Thanks! :)
13:35 Coke See? I share my toys. =-)
13:35 NotFound I want TICKET_MAGICALLY_SOLVE
13:37 wayland76 NotFound: If that works, you could rent it to people for $10,000 a day :)
13:37 dalek rakudo: 5901f2a | pmichaud++ | docs/spectest-progress.csv:
13:37 dalek rakudo: spectest-progress.csv update: 416 files, 11343 passing, 651 failing
13:37 dalek rakudo: Failure summary:
13:37 dalek rakudo:     S32-num/exp.rakudo aborted 40 test(s)
13:37 dalek rakudo:     S32-trig/trig.rakudo aborted 611 test(s)
13:37 dalek rakudo: review: http://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/5​901f2ad85e0f336b276a1ddf3168d26cd3d54b1
13:38 whiteknight The "Magically Solve" button resolves the ticket as "WONTFIX" and adds a note to the documentation that the problem is actually a "feature"
13:40 NotFound That's darka magic.
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13:46 * Coke wishes he could ack over a 'network place' on windows.
13:46 * NotFound buliding parrot 1.0
13:47 NotFound Coke: Why tou can't?
13:47 NotFound s/tou/you
13:48 Coke you get "no such file or directory"
13:48 Coke network place != mapped share drive.
13:48 NotFound Ah, sorry.
13:49 darkwolf left #parrot
13:52 Coke (thankfully, these particular ones are mountable as drives, so I'm not sol)
13:53 NotFound Example in TT #872 segfaults with parrot 1.0, adding comment to ticket.
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14:29 * Coke hurls http://thedailywtf.com/Articles/Programming​-Praxis-Russian-Peasant-Multiplication.aspx for folks looking to submit something in perl6.
14:30 whiteknight yeah, I read that
14:34 Coke rakudo: say 'hi'
14:34 polyglotbot OUTPUT[Parrot VM: Can't stat languages/perl6/perl6.pbc, code 2.␤main: Packfile loading failed␤]
14:35 Coke nice.
14:36 flh Coke, I'm still looking at TT#840, and found a strange thing: the test passes if I run it from (i.e., exec it with perl -e "system 'parrot t/op/io.t';")
14:36 masak rakudo: sub russian-mul($a, $b, $sum? is copy) { $sum += $b if $a % 2; return $a == 1 ?? $sum !! russian-mul(int($a/2), 2*$b, $sum) }; say russian-mul(18, 23)
14:36 polyglotbot OUTPUT[Parrot VM: Can't stat languages/perl6/perl6.pbc, code 2.␤main: Packfile loading failed␤]
14:36 masak Coke: there you go.
14:37 flh Coke, and exactly the same thing happens with the old (perl) version of the test: directly the generated .pir file does not give the expected output
14:37 masak rakudo: sub russian-mul($a, $b, $sum? is copy) { $sum += $b if $a % 2; return $a == 1 ?? $sum !! russian-mul(int($a/2), 2*$b, $sum) }; say russian-mul(18, 23)
14:37 polyglotbot OUTPUT[Parrot VM: Can't stat languages/perl6/perl6.pbc, code 2.␤main: Packfile loading failed␤]
14:37 purl i already had it that way, masak.
14:38 masak something wrong with polyglotbot...
14:38 masak oh well, works in #perl6.
14:50 jonathan purl, rakudo: sub russian-mul($a, $b, $sum?
14:50 purl i guess sub russian-mul($a, $b, $sum is copy) { $sum += $b if $a % 2; return $a == 1 ?? $sum !! russian-mul(int($a/2), 2*$b, $sum) }; say russian-mul(18, 23)
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15:29 dalek rakudo: e506d36 | jnthn++ | perl6.pir:
15:29 dalek rakudo: Make sure we pass along the correct exit code if we have an exit exception.
15:29 dalek rakudo: review: http://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/e​506d361a9c2a07deeacb655c150fed9ac893c6c
15:29 dalek rakudo: 23e8f09 | jnthn++ | perl6.pir:
15:29 dalek rakudo: Add a null check to avoid exceptions in the backtrace printing; need this for the release, but Parrot probably should not be putting them there in the first place, so investigate that too.
15:29 dalek rakudo: review: http://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/2​3e8f09a4dcb8adcb13df8c53878f8e2279b4d4e
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15:39 japhb Coke: Oh sure, I'll just get right on that.  ;-)
15:39 japhb Actually, if I knew Tcl at all, I might be tempted ....
15:40 * japhb loves me some optimizations
15:41 Coke japhb: knowledge of tcl not entirely required. =-)
15:41 Coke there's certainly a lot of generated PIR to wade through.
15:42 japhb Where is Partcl's design / project pages?
15:42 japhb s/is/are/ # mmmm, Engrish
15:42 Coke partcl?
15:42 purl i think partcl is tcl on parrot or http://code.google.com/p/partcl or completely dead since before parrot 1.0
15:42 japhb Nothing like speaking your native tongue as if you had just learned it ....
15:42 Coke purl, partcl =~ s/or completely dead since before parrot 1.0
15:42 purl Coke: sorry...
15:42 Coke purl, partcl =~ s/or completely dead since before parrot 1.0//
15:42 purl OK, Coke
15:43 japhb Nice!  Had no idea purl understood that
15:43 japhb Tcl still uses CVS?  Seriously?  Wow.
15:43 Coke it works.
15:43 japhb Must be influenced by those crazy OpenBSD guys ...
15:43 Coke and in some ways is better than svn.
15:44 Coke (conflating tags and branches is not considered by all to be a win. =-)
15:44 japhb Sure, but "My kingdom for an atomic commit" and all that.  :-)
15:45 Coke mmm.
15:52 NotFound Many people have problems with the C language because of the lack of native teachers.
15:57 dalek rakudo: 254b3a5 | jnthn++ | src/pmc/perl6multisub.pmc:
15:57 dalek rakudo: When we have a named slurpy param, we don't need to do a bindability check to see if there's matching named params since it accepts 'em all anyway. This lets us cache many multi-method dispatches again now methods get their *%_, winning back some performance.
15:57 dalek rakudo: review: http://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/2​54b3a5a80e98f1daa72e596b9e6662d6259e9e6
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17:19 Coke odd. partcl's t/cmd_array.t is failing sporadically.
17:21 mikehh joined #parrot
17:22 Coke ls
17:23 moritz no such file or directory
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18:06 dalek TT #719 closed by coke++: out of memory running a tcl spec test
18:20 theory joined #parrot
18:21 Coke msg kid51 FYI, just because a ticket is a tcl blocker, doesn't mean it's an HLL_INTEROP issue.
18:21 purl Message for kid51 stored.
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18:26 dalek TT #773 closed by coke++: Can't override vtables of a PMC from PIR
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19:02 Coke http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parrot_Foundation - freaky.
19:09 mikehh I think some editin' due there
19:09 mikehh as Honourable Member of Board :-}
19:10 japhb Coke: I don't see the TT 719 code in the partcl repo ... can you tell me where you put it?  (I ask because you said you had Perl 6 and Perl 5 versions as well, and I want to make sure I use the same code as you.)
19:14 Coke moment.
19:15 nopaste "coke" at 72.228.52.192 pasted "japhb" (15 lines) at http://nopaste.snit.ch/17365
19:19 Coke the tcl version is i the ticket.
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19:27 brbrooks !seen Whiteknight
19:27 brbrooks seen Whiteknight
19:27 purl Whiteknight was last seen on #parrot 4 hours, 56 minutes and 54 seconds ago, saying: yeah, I read that
19:36 japhb Coke: Ah, nice, using the subset of Perls 5 and 6 that is identical.  :-)
19:40 dalek rakudo: bd1e7cb | moritz++ | docs/announce/2009-07:
19:40 dalek rakudo: [release] feature list for the announcement text
19:40 dalek rakudo: review: http://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/b​d1e7cb66e8f9bd8fdb9551f913d861b837d99c5
19:50 Coke japhb: just lazy
19:51 Coke for added laziness, convert the say to a print.
19:53 dalek rakudo: e898146 | moritz++ | docs/announce/2009-07:
19:53 dalek rakudo: [release] typos spotted by masak++ and japhb++
19:53 dalek rakudo: review: http://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/e​8981468ad4208773feea1d5c84eeb23908b9caf
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20:09 NotFound FYI rakudo build an run successfully with parrot 1.4 built with c++
20:10 moritz great!
20:11 * Coke tries a spec test run for tcl against an /optimized/ parrot 1.4.0, thanks to whoever reminded me of that.
20:19 dalek rakudo: fd6cb4a | jnthn++ | src/classes/Signature.pir:
20:19 dalek rakudo: When .perl'ing a Signature, put the : there for named parameters.
20:19 dalek rakudo: review: http://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/f​d6cb4a3df16e11b27a8654b980a1fdf1712baa9
20:19 dalek rakudo: 4ee9623 | jnthn++ | src/p (3 files):
20:19 dalek rakudo: First cut implementation of .^roles for introspecting what roles a class does, plus some other corrections to various bits of role introspection.
20:19 dalek rakudo: review: http://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/4​ee9623941066caca4fcaa96429d4667954cb025
20:19 dalek rakudo: d8505f8 | jnthn++ | :
20:19 dalek rakudo: Merge branch 'master' of git@github.com:rakudo/rakudo
20:19 dalek rakudo: review: http://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/d​8505f81e6283a23971d9cc1d16d17225b3d3799
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20:38 dalek rakudo: 03aa56f | jnthn++ |  (3 files):
20:38 dalek rakudo: Add an Attribute class that will be the descriptor for an attribute. For now it only has a .name, will add more later. Also implement first cut of .^attributes.
20:38 dalek rakudo: review: http://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/0​3aa56f7b56dcf65f444be82c7e6b35a3e2af7c3
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20:52 mikehh latest rakudo fails to build on parrot r40217 - perl6.ops multiple errors
20:53 mikehh builds on parrot r40185
20:53 Tene Yeah, a lot of people are seeing that, it seems.  I heard something about it going to be fixed before the rakudo release, I think.
20:54 mikehh well r40185 was the parrot release
20:54 NotFound Why? Isn't 1.4 the targeted parrot?
20:55 Tene In that case, what i heard was probably "rakudo won't work against the latest Parrot until after the rakudo release"
20:55 mikehh Yeah - but I keep testing with the latest parrot - which passes all parrot tests
20:55 moritz what Tene++ said
20:57 mikehh ok - I'll wait until after the release before I complain again :-}
20:58 dalek rakudo: 94b741a | jnthn++ | src/ (2 files):
20:58 dalek rakudo: Give Attribute the type and build attributes, and set them up in .^attributes.
20:58 dalek rakudo: review: http://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/9​4b741acc2ecd27ecec8b03791088b0a9c6c1ba5
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21:23 dalek rakudo: 8c79a13 | jnthn++ | src/ (3 files):
21:23 dalek rakudo: Implement accessor attribute for Attribute descriptor class.
21:23 dalek rakudo: review: http://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/8​c79a13f47b88bf8cab830bc5e58ca7e4a4712f9
21:29 dalek rakudo: fb0601a | jnthn++ | docs/ChangeLog:
21:29 dalek rakudo: Extra changelog entry plus tweaks.
21:29 dalek rakudo: review: http://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/f​b0601ada860387f0fc5fe68da1ef6a1241e54e9
21:39 dalek partcl: r536 | coke++ | wiki/SpecTestStatus.wiki:
21:39 dalek partcl: Mark some more skips from our latest run that we haven't figured out yet.
21:39 dalek partcl: review: http://code.google.com/p/p​artcl/source/detail?r=536
21:41 Coke partcl has regressed quite a bit. frustrating.
21:42 Coke though running it optimized shaved a bunch of time. rerunning with the new skips in place...
21:48 dalek rakudo: 5530469 | moritz++ | docs/announce/2009-07:
21:48 dalek rakudo: improved introspection warrants an entry the annonce text
21:48 dalek rakudo: review: http://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/5​530469b3a54a4836a956b057c4a2258c2149e24
21:54 dalek rakudo: 6062092 | moritz++ | docs/announce/2009-07:
21:54 dalek rakudo: [docs] improved wording by jnthn++
21:54 dalek rakudo: review: http://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/6​0620929e2fd6f30748f790bd82af4eccda4f0c1
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22:09 jonathan OK, getting an early night...hopefully some sleep will shake off whatever I've got...
22:09 jonathan night all
22:10 dduncan joined #parrot
22:12 jonathan erm, that was for #perl6...
22:12 * jonathan clearly needs his early night :-/
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22:38 dalek partcl: r537 | coke++ | wiki/SpecTestStatus.wiki:
22:38 dalek partcl: Record more unknown failures. LOTS of regressions here. :(
22:38 dalek partcl: review: http://code.google.com/p/p​artcl/source/detail?r=537
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23:14 dalek parrot: r40218 | bacek++ | branches/orderedhash_revam​p/src/pmc/orderedhash.pmc:
23:14 dalek parrot: Initial draft how OrderedHash implementation can look like.
23:14 dalek parrot: review: https://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/40218/
23:18 pmichaud Good afternoon, #parrot
23:18 dalek parrot: r40219 | bacek++ | branches/orderedhash_revam​p/src/pmc/orderedhash.pmc:
23:18 dalek parrot: [pmc] Totally broke OrderedHash.
23:18 dalek parrot: - Remove old methods.
23:18 dalek parrot: - Add stubs for new methods.
23:18 dalek parrot: - Build is broken.
23:18 dalek parrot: - But 2 first OrderedHash tests are passed!
23:18 dalek parrot: review: https://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/40219/
23:18 bacek_ good morning pmichaud
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23:21 * bacek_ wish to have Tuple PMC...
23:22 bacek_ and pony.
23:22 bacek_ anyway, $dayjob time
23:29 dalek parrot: r40220 | whiteknight++ | branches/bsr_jsr_ret (2 files):
23:29 dalek parrot: [bsr_jsr_ret] undo my previous commit on suggestion from pmichaud++. Will resolve these issues a different way
23:29 dalek parrot: review: https://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/40220/
23:30 dalek partcl: r538 | coke++ | wiki/SpecTestStatus.wiki:
23:30 dalek partcl: ... Everytime I run the spec test, more files are failing.
23:30 dalek partcl: review: http://code.google.com/p/p​artcl/source/detail?r=538
23:34 Coke this is damn depressing.
23:34 Coke every time I rerun the spec test suite, more files are reporting as failing. :|
23:40 Whiteknight so stop running it
23:41 Coke ^_O
23:42 Coke At this point, I just want to get a steady state. :|
23:43 dalek parrot: r40221 | jkeenan++ | trunk/docs/pdds/pdd30_install.pod:
23:43 dalek parrot: Applying patch submitted by wayland++ in https://trac.parrot.org/parrot/ticket/788 (plus a few other small POD-formatting improvements).
23:43 dalek parrot: review: https://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/40221/
23:45 wayland76 joined #parrot
23:47 dalek parrot: r40222 | petdance++ | trunk/compilers/imcc/optimizer.c:
23:47 dalek parrot: removing unexecutable code. Thanks, Coverity!
23:47 dalek parrot: review: https://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/40222/
23:51 dalek parrot: r40223 | whiteknight++ | branches/bsr_jsr_ret (4 files):
23:51 dalek parrot: [bsr_jsr_ret] replace bsr/ret with local_branch/local_return on suggestion from pmichaud++. Parrot builds, but fails plenty of tests
23:51 dalek parrot: review: https://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/40223/
23:53 kid51 Whiteknight:  About that 'wikiconvention in NYC' you mentioned yesterday -- this was hit #1 when I googled:  http://www.actorsandcrew.com/press/archives/4044
23:53 kid51 Was that what you were referring to?
23:54 Whiteknight no, I don't think so
23:59 dalek parrot: r40224 | whiteknight++ | branches/bsr_jsr_ret (4 files):
23:59 dalek parrot: [bsr_jsr_ret] convert a few more files
23:59 dalek parrot: review: https://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/40224/

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