Camelia, the Perl 6 bug

IRC log for #parrot, 2009-07-26

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:01 Coke (while.test just segfaulted during a full run. run it by hand, it passes.)
00:02 treed I have a test on cardinal that periodically fails. Running it by hand is about the same.
00:02 treed I got a chance to see the failure once.
00:02 treed The failing test is due to a blank line in the output.
00:02 treed but I swear I saw that line start to appear and then disappear
00:02 Coke mine is actually segfaulting. =-)
00:02 treed This only happens some of the time.
00:03 treed So I'm guessing that it must be something on my system being weird?
00:03 treed But it's always the same test.
00:04 Coke if you can't find what makes it reproducible, goodness knows.
00:05 Coke might be another system it fails consistently on. I had that issue ages ago in partcl, where things would fail on darwin, but not linux.
00:06 * Coke guesses he's not going to bother cutting a partcl release.
00:06 Coke ~~
00:25 asciiville I'm not exactly sure how to ask this, but does anyone have an executive summary of what a PMC looks
00:25 asciiville like to a shared library during a NCI operation?
00:25 asciiville I'm working with the <parrot src>/etc/SQLite3 source, and it appears that libsqlite3.so doesn't
00:25 asciiville like any of the PMCs I give to it during an NCI op. I have a workaround currently on github, but
00:25 asciiville want to make sure I'm heading down the right track.
00:31 asciiville sorry <parrot src>/etc/SQLite3 should be <parrot src>/ext/SQLite3 :)
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00:59 hoelzro hello parrot folk
00:59 hoelzro is it possible to turn off certain opcodes at runtime?
01:00 cotto hoelzro, The security PDD talks about that, but there's no implementation afaict.
01:00 hoelzro curses!
01:00 hoelzro oh well
01:00 cotto You could probably do something ugly from C if you really need to, but you get to keep the pieces if it breaks.
01:01 hoelzro that's the current plan then
01:01 cotto hoelzro, what's your interest in this functionality?
01:01 hoelzro cotto: I want to create an online REPL for Rakudo
01:01 cotto Yes, but I don't know if there's even an eta.
01:01 hoelzro like tryruby for Ruby
01:02 cotto You could hop over to #perl6.  They have a (afaict) safe evalbot.
01:02 hoelzro I'll ask about it
01:02 hoelzro thanks
01:02 cotto np.
01:03 cotto Thanks for your interest.
01:03 hoelzro Damian Conway and Patrick Michaud got me fired up at OSCON =)
01:15 cotto I wish I could have seen Conway.
01:15 hoelzro he was pretty awesome
01:15 cotto but doing that without actually going to OSCON is tricky
01:15 cotto What'd he talk about?
01:16 hoelzro I saw him for a Perl 6 update and for API design
01:25 Tene I read "fired up" as just "fired" the first couple of times I read that.
01:27 hoelzro that would have been bad =P
01:30 treed Those troublemakers.
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01:32 cotto You can't trust those shady characters.
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02:09 mikehh codetest, benchmark and examples_tests FAIL, All others PASS (pre/post config, smolder, nqp_test fulltest) at r40272 - Ubuntu 9.04 amd64
02:10 mikehh codetest is a space after parens in imcc.y
02:12 mikehh the others are same as prev fails in r40269 above
02:13 cotto Yay!  I got callgrind to spit out understandable output for a simple C program!
02:14 cotto World domination is one step closer.
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04:24 Andy So does everyone's test fail a raft of packfile errors?
04:24 Andy nopaste?
04:24 purl somebody said nopaste was at http://nopaste.snit.ch/ (ask TonyC for new channels) or http://poundperl.pastebin.com/ or http://paste.scsys.co.uk/ or App::Nopaste or tools/dev/nopaste.pl or at http://www.extpaste.com/ or http://paste.scsys.co.uk (for #catalyst, #dbix-class, #moose  and others) or http://gist.github.com/ or paste or gtfo
04:25 nopaste "Andy" at 76.245.3.1 pasted "my test failures" (24 lines) at http://nopaste.snit.ch/17389
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04:31 bacek yak... Do we have backup for moritz++ irclog?
04:36 dalek parrot: r40273 | petdance++ | trunk/t/pmc (7 files):
04:36 dalek parrot: fixed the filetypes for vi
04:36 dalek parrot: review: https://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/40273/
04:42 dalek parrot: r40274 | petdance++ | trunk/t/pmc/array.t:
04:42 dalek parrot: fixing filetype for vim
04:42 dalek parrot: review: https://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/40274/
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06:10 Tene Andy: also tools/dev/nopaste.pl
06:24 cotto paste
06:24 cotto paste?
06:24 purl paste is (see: nopaste) or like glue but a little safer to sniff. or http://nopaste.snit.ch:8001/ or http://scsys.co.uk:8001/ anywhere shadowpaste is or mmm, sticky paste or You there! Eating the paste. or <see> 2 girls, 1 paste or App::Nopaste
07:13 dalek tracwiki: v1 | cotto++ | CallgrindFormat
07:13 dalek tracwiki: initial version
07:13 dalek tracwiki: https://trac.parrot.org/parrot/wiki/Cal​lgrindFormat?version=1&amp;action=diff
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07:52 cotto hi bacek
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08:09 dalek tracwiki: v2 | cotto++ | CallgrindFormat
08:09 dalek tracwiki: add annotated body of a profile
08:09 dalek tracwiki: https://trac.parrot.org/parrot/wiki/Cal​lgrindFormat?version=2&amp;action=diff
08:09 dalek tracwiki: v3 | cotto++ | CallgrindFormat
08:09 dalek tracwiki: fix numbers
08:09 dalek tracwiki: https://trac.parrot.org/parrot/wiki/Cal​lgrindFormat?version=3&amp;action=diff
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08:39 cotto chromatic, https://trac.parrot.org/pa​rrot/wiki/CallgrindFormat
08:40 cotto It doesn't cover everything we'd need to use but it's a good start.
08:41 chromatic Do you feel like you understand it sufficiently?
08:42 cotto I haven't played with how it tracks jumps, but yes apart from that.
08:43 chromatic That'll be a good first cut then.
08:43 chromatic We can get it to detect and report regular function calls.
08:44 cotto Yup.  That'll be a great first step.
08:45 chromatic Okay.  I'll work on the refactoring tomorrow, so that we can work on this first reporting step next week.
08:45 cotto I still think it's a good idea to use an intermediate format that's post-processed into something Callgrind-compatible, though.
08:46 cotto to avoid storing more state than necessary
08:47 chromatic Write up that format and we can work on it.
08:47 cotto You mean a more formal version?
08:47 cotto nm.  You were referring to the intermediate format.
08:47 chromatic Yes.
08:48 cotto ok
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09:02 dalek parrot: r40275 | fperrad++ | trunk/compilers/imcc/imcc.y:
09:02 dalek parrot: [codingstd] fix c_parens
09:02 dalek parrot: imcparser.c needs a regeneration
09:02 dalek parrot: review: https://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/40275/
09:09 dalek parrot: r40276 | chromatic++ | trunk/compilers/imcc/imcparser.c:
09:09 dalek parrot: [IMCC] Regenerated compilers/imcc/imcparser.c, as per note in r40275 commit.
09:09 dalek parrot: review: https://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/40276/
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10:13 dalek parrot: r40277 | allison++ | trunk/ports/ubuntu/changelog:
10:13 dalek parrot: [ubuntu] Since there are no longer any changes specific to Ubuntu, the
10:13 dalek parrot: process becomes a sync instead of a merge.
10:13 dalek parrot: review: https://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/40277/
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10:33 dalek parrot: r40278 | whiteknight++ | trunk/compilers/pirc/src/pircompunit.c:
10:33 dalek parrot: [bsr_jsr_ret] remove reference to ret from PIRC
10:33 dalek parrot: review: https://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/40278/
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11:27 dalek parrot: r40279 | whiteknight++ | trunk/examples/benchmarks/stress.pasm:
11:27 dalek parrot: [bsr_jsr_ret] fix an issue with the benchmark tests that I didn't see before. kid51++ (and fperrad++ for the last fix)
11:27 dalek parrot: review: https://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/40279/
11:31 dalek parrot: r40280 | whiteknight++ | branches/kill_stacks:
11:31 dalek parrot: [kill_stacks] creating a new branch to rip out stacks
11:31 dalek parrot: review: https://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/40280/
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11:51 dalek parrot: r40281 | whiteknight++ | branches/kill_stacks:
11:51 dalek parrot: [kill_stacks] not ready for this yet, apparently. deleting branch, will get back to it later.
11:51 dalek parrot: review: https://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/40281/
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12:41 mikehh examples_tests FAIL, All others PASS (pre/post config, smolder, nqp_test fulltest) at r40281 - Ubuntu 9.04 amd64
12:43 nopaste "mikehh" at 90.209.201.189 pasted "examples_tests failure at r40281" (27 lines) at http://nopaste.snit.ch/17390
12:44 moritz Whiteknight: just wanted to tell you that rakudo doesn't use push{action,mark} and popmark
12:44 Whiteknight thanks moritz
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12:52 mikehh are there any (dis)advantages building with g++ over gcc - I know NotFound prefers it
12:52 dalek parrot: r40282 | whiteknight++ | trunk/t/examples/subs.t:
12:52 dalek parrot: [bsr_jsr_ret] fix a problem in the examples tests. Thanks mikehh++
12:52 dalek parrot: review: https://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/40282/
12:54 jonathan Whiteknight: Only time I used any of those, was when I used pushmark and popmark in the .Net => PIR translator.
12:54 Whiteknight okay, thanks
12:54 jonathan Whiteknight: IIRC, I *may* have been able to eliminate the need for them with some smarter static analysis.
12:55 jonathan Though mapping .Net's exception model on to Parrot's had already been lots of effort. :-)
12:57 * Coke updates parrot and finds a broken partcl.
12:57 Whiteknight Coke: so, the normal?
12:58 Coke ayup.
12:58 Coke apparently I had used bsr in a few places.
12:59 Whiteknight the horror
13:00 mikehh rakudo (240b984) builds on parrot r40269 - make test PASS, make spectest (up to 27743) PASS - t/spec/S06-advanced_subroutine_features/lexical-subs.rakudo - TODO passed:   4
13:01 jonathan That'll be the thing chromatic++ fixed yesterday :-)
13:01 mikehh Coke: where's the best place to get info on partcl so I can include it in my testing routine
13:02 Coke http://code.google.com/p/p​artcl/issues/detail?id=88
13:02 mikehh sorry that was parrot r40281 for rakudo
13:02 Coke mikehh: http://code.google.com/p/partcl/
13:03 mikehh ok I will have a look
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13:05 Coke if you're feeling particularly masochistic, 'make test' and 'make spectest' are both interesting. 'make specinfo' is like spectest, but updates the files in docs/ so you can compare to previous results.
13:05 Coke (showing more clearly when spec test files start regressing)
13:06 kid51 Good morning all
13:07 kid51 Since Whiteknight removed 3 opcodes yesterday, do we have to run 'make opsrenumber'
13:07 kid51 ?
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13:11 Whiteknight no, I ran that in branch
13:11 Whiteknight you might need to make realclean
13:13 kid51 But I see this in trunk:
13:13 kid51 $ grep -nE 'bsr|jsr|ret' src/ops/ops.num
13:13 kid51 25:cpu_ret                           2
13:13 kid51 40:bsr_i                            16
13:13 kid51 41:bsr_ic                           17
13:13 kid51 42:ret                              18
13:13 kid51 45:local_return_p                   21
13:13 kid51 46:jsr_i                            22
13:13 kid51 47:jsr_ic                           23
13:13 kid51 63:returncc                         39
13:13 kid51 69:set_returns_pc                   45
13:13 Coke GAH
13:13 kid51 82:rethrow_p                        58
13:13 kid51 812:pic_set_returns___pc            788
13:13 kid51 I'm not an expert here, but it looks like some of the deleted codes are still numbered.
13:14 Whiteknight kid51: I don't have those in my trunk
13:15 kid51 Alright, maybe I'm looking at the wrong box.
13:15 kid51 I thought I had updated on both Linux and Darwin.
13:16 kid51 My error; I hadn't updated on Darwin.
13:16 Whiteknight oh, okay
13:18 dalek rakudo: 4c31fb7 | moritz++ | build/PARROT_REVISION:
13:18 dalek rakudo: bump PARROT_REVISION to get better handling of lexical subs
13:18 dalek rakudo: review: http://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/4​c31fb77fbf5fb6f034b1f9612f1f53dd7ed6f00
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18:21 dalek TT #876 created by whiteknight++: Deprecate pushaction, pushmark, popmark
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19:21 dalek cardinal: 5b4c4e4 | treed++ | src/classes/Array.pir:
19:21 dalek cardinal: Exlicitly make Array.size respond to elements vtable.
19:21 dalek cardinal: review: http://github.com/cardinal/cardinal/commit​/5b4c4e4a243f2629e71774d718af4ba62c9079d8
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19:30 dalek parrot: r40283 | whiteknight++ | branches/kill_stacks:
19:30 dalek parrot: creating a branch to remove stacks
19:30 dalek parrot: review: https://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/40283/
19:35 treed Can anyone comment on the relative speed of using an opcode vs. just calling the method that provides that vtable?
19:36 treed i.e. Which, if either, is faster?
19:38 treed (I expect that using a vtable is faster than finding a method.)
19:39 * moritz too
19:49 Whiteknight finding the method isn't so bad, it's passing the parameters that is slow
19:49 Whiteknight well, passing and processing them
19:49 treed And you don't have to do that with a vtable?
19:50 Whiteknight well, yes and no
19:50 purl Go not to the Elves for counsel, for they shall say both no and yes.
19:50 treed Haha.
19:50 treed Thanks, perl.
19:50 treed purl
19:50 purl yes, treed?
19:50 Whiteknight a VTABLE written in C doesn't need argument processing. A VTABLE written in PIR does
19:51 Whiteknight in that case, a VTABLE written in PIR is probably going to be slower then a METHOD written in PIR because it needs to recurse into a new runloop to execute it
19:51 treed Well, in my case, any vtable will be in PIR.
19:51 treed Huh.
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19:52 Whiteknight if you take a look in src/pmc/object.pmc, calling a VTABLE on an object actually calls a C VTABLE, which in turn calls a new runloop to execute the PIR override
19:52 Whiteknight whereas calling a METHOD written in PIR happens in the current runloop
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19:58 moritz wouldn't it be more efficient to detect that on the caller side and continue within the current runloop?
19:58 moritz or would that slow down all the C VTABLEs too much?
20:01 dalek cardinal: 2527236 | treed++ | src/classes/Array.pir:
20:01 dalek cardinal: Undo the last commit. treed--
20:01 dalek cardinal: review: http://github.com/cardinal/cardinal/commit​/25272362cfa31446327cddc94d746d50f1fc9cd8
20:02 jonathan One issue is that we don't know if the C vtable needs to call the PIR and get the value back and twiddle it, or something.
20:02 jonathan Not always anyway. Though usually that's not needed.
20:03 jonathan Even if you could avoid spawning another runloop though, I fear that the end result would still be that the parameter passing was the costly part.
20:03 jonathan If I understand the motivation for L1 correctly, vtables would be written in that in the future? In which case we may lose the calling boundary issue.
20:04 treed L1?
20:04 purl well, L1 is a hypothetical language that would be used to implement PMCs and PIR-visible ops so that they could all be easily jitted. or http://irclog.perlgeek.de/p​arrot/2009-04-21#i_1083550 or http://rt.perl.org/rt3/Ticket/D​isplay.html?id=39313#txn-471982 or magical unicorns and flying puppies.
20:05 dalek parrot: r40284 | whiteknight++ | branches/kill_stacks (5 files):
20:05 dalek parrot: [kill_stacks] reimplement pushaction, pushmark, and popmark opcodes in terms of a regular RPA PMC instead of stacks
20:05 dalek parrot: review: https://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/40284/
20:06 Whiteknight moritz: the problem is that some VTABLEs are called from C code inline, so we can't just pass the pointer back to the runloop
20:06 * jonathan wonders if the puppies are flying because they grew wings, or because they were kicked off a cliffe.
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20:16 dalek parrot: r40285 | whiteknight++ | branches/kill_stacks (6 files):
20:16 dalek parrot: [kill_stacks] Kill the stack system. Kill it dead.
20:16 dalek parrot: review: https://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/40285/
20:16 Whiteknight jonathan: Yes, it's the intention that L1 will be used to implement VTABLEs and Ops, so we can avoid runloop recursion
20:16 Whiteknight or, at least, avoid most cases of it
20:19 dalek parrot: r40286 | whiteknight++ | branches/kill_stacks (3 files):
20:19 dalek parrot: [kill_stacks] some miscellaneous cleanups
20:19 dalek parrot: review: https://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/40286/
20:20 Whiteknight that whole process was actually much faster then I was expecting
20:24 cotto msg darbelo In the future, try to avoid blog urls that end in a dot.  They're easy to misparse.
20:24 purl Message for darbelo stored.
20:32 cotto Whiteknight, in what cases won't L1 avoid runloop recursion?
20:33 Whiteknight cotto: anywhere that we are calling into a VTABLE from C will cause a recursion
20:33 dalek parrot: r40287 | whiteknight++ | branches/kill_stacks (8 files):
20:33 dalek parrot: [kill_stacks] remove some of the remaining references and support infrastructure for POP(). We don do dat no mo.
20:33 dalek parrot: review: https://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/40287/
20:34 Whiteknight the solution is to just write more and more and more in L1 instead of C
20:34 cotto true
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21:04 donaldh_ When I run rakudo to generate PIR and then try to execute the PIR I get Class '[ 'parrot' ; 'Perl6MultiSub' ]' not found.
21:04 moritz looks like some missing loalib statements, or whatever they are called
21:04 donaldh_ I can't for the life of me figure out why.
21:07 moritz donaldh_: http://irclog.perlgeek.de/​perl6/2009-06-30#i_1276192
21:08 donaldh_ moritz: thanks, that works.
21:11 donaldh_ It's strange that it works, since I had already straced parrot and watched perl6_group.so getting loaded.
21:12 moritz maybe in the wrong namespace/HLL/whatever?
21:15 donaldh_ I guess it must be.
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21:18 bkuhn Hey, if I want to take a look at pynie, which codebase should I be looking at: the one in the parrot SVN or the one in the Google Code pynie-specific SVN?
21:19 moritz bkuhn: I don't think there are pynie sources left in the parrot repo.
21:19 jonathan bkuhn: Hi! I was under the impression that all languages had left Parrot SVN.
21:19 moritz bkuhn: not in any version since 1.0
21:19 bkuhn hrm, maybe my parrot checkout is old. :)
21:19 jonathan bkuhn: So almost certainly you want the one on Google Code.
21:19 jonathan :-)
21:20 moritz and update to a newer parrot ;-)
21:23 bkuhn ah, moritz, the weirdness is that git-svn apparently left behind the languages dir!
21:24 moritz bkuhn: ah right, git does not care about directories at all, contrary to svn
21:27 * bkuhn looks for a git command that will throw away all untracked files.
21:27 bkuhn Ah git clean
21:27 Tene donaldh_: the issue is that "load_bytecode 'perl6.pbc'" is being called from the 'perl6' HLL instead of the 'parrot' HLL.
21:27 Tene donaldh_: and that means that the types it ends up loading from the dynpmc .so get put in the 'perl6' HLL
21:28 Tene This is a parrot bug.
21:30 donaldh_ Tene: thanks, though it looks like the intended behaviour since the .loadlib calls are after the .HLL perl6 directive in perl6.pir
21:31 donaldh_ Is the bug that they end up in the parrot HLL in a normal invocation ?
21:32 jonathan I'm not sure if there's a way to specify the HLL a PMC should live in.
21:32 Tene donaldh_: rakudo doesn't currently have a workaround for this parrot bug in its generated PIR.
21:33 Tene jonathan: there isn't, and there should be.
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21:42 bkuhn Hey, is the PCT not installed by default when you do a 'make install'?
21:52 asciiville Does anyone know of any current information available regarding statement of direction or standardization for Parrot database interaction?
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22:04 dalek parrot: r40288 | whiteknight++ | trunk (83 files):
22:04 dalek parrot: [kill_stacks] merge in the kill_stacks branch. Stacks are no more
22:04 dalek parrot: review: https://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/40288/
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22:08 dalek parrot: r40289 | whiteknight++ | branches/bsr_jsr_ret:
22:08 dalek parrot: [bsr_jsr_ret] remove this unnecessary branch, already merged to trunk
22:08 dalek parrot: review: https://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/40289/
22:08 dalek parrot: r40290 | whiteknight++ | branches/kill_stacks:
22:08 dalek parrot: [bsr_jsr_ret] remove this unnecessary branch, already merged to trunk
22:08 dalek parrot: review: https://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/40290/
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22:40 treed Is it possible to get a key that was given to a subrule?
22:54 mikehh All tests PASS (pre/post config, smolder, nqp_test fulltest) at r40290 - Ubuntu 9.04 amd64
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23:26 kid51 confirmed mikehh's result on Linux/i386 at r40290
23:31 patspam joined #parrot
23:32 mikehh Oh and rakudo (4c31fb7) builds on parrot r40290 - All tests PASS make test/ make spectest (up to r27748)
23:33 mikehh I couldn't gewt partcl to build - it seems to require an installed parrot
23:33 mikehh s/gewt/get/
23:34 kid51 ISTR discussion on list to that effect
23:34 kid51 ... but don't rely on my memory
23:35 mikehh it broke with Can't open perl script "/usr/local/lib/parrot/1.4.0-de​vel/tools/dev/gen_makefile.pl": No such file or directory
23:36 kid51 Hmm.  That 1.4.0-devel looks a bit suspicious
23:36 mikehh I used something like perl Configure.pl --parrot-congig=../parrot/parrot_config
23:38 mikehh s/congig/config/
23:39 mikehh I was going to mess around with Configure.pl to make it more like the rakudo one - but got sidetracked
23:44 mikehh A website I am supposed to help look after just got wiped - the person responsible is in Hospital at the moment and the hosting company just cleared it out
23:44 kid51 bad luck and trouble!
23:44 mikehh I am on their contact list but never heard from them - they claim they have no backups anymore
23:45 mikehh I have my own but have to upload them - it's going to takre an age
23:45 kid51 Well that's a hosting company that doesn't deserve new business.
23:46 * kid51 witnesses cloudburst in Brooklyn
23:46 mikehh I got hold of the person I normally deal with - a senior VP, and I think some heads are going to roll
23:47 mikehh The people I work for there - have been major customers for years
23:48 mikehh even though this is a more personal site
23:49 mikehh their other sites are ok
23:51 Khisanth hmm thunder while it was bright and sunny was a lot more unusual :)
23:52 kid51 Khisanth:  You in NYC?  Have we met?
23:53 Khisanth I am in Brooklyn but no
23:55 kid51 Am always trying to identify people in area for F2F meetups

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