Camelia, the Perl 6 bug

IRC log for #parrot, 2009-10-22

Parrot | source cross referenced

| Channels | #parrot index | Today | | Search | Google Search | Plain-Text | summary

All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:00 cotto_work joined #parrot
00:01 cotto_work joined #parrot
00:03 cotto_work joined #parrot
00:03 dalek parrot: r42002 | chromatic++ | trunk/src (2 files):
00:03 dalek parrot: [PMC] Made CallSignature PMC used fixed-size allocator for its storage.  This
00:03 dalek parrot: improves the fib.pir benchmark by another 1.869%.
00:03 dalek parrot: review: https://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/42002/
00:05 darbelo http://wiki.postgresql.org/images/​5/58/11_eggyknap-patch-review.pdf
00:05 shorten darbelo's url is at http://xrl.us/bftsbb
00:05 darbelo We need to make one of those for parrot.
00:10 ttbot Parrot trunk/ r42002 MSWin32-x86-multi-thread make error http://tt.ro.vutbr.cz/file/cmdout/118077.txt ( http://tt.ro.vutbr.cz//buil​dstatus/pr-Parrot/rp-trunk/ )
00:10 confound_ joined #parrot
00:11 cotto_work left #parrot
00:11 cotto_work joined #parrot
00:13 dukeleto japhb: +50 to the "upgrade parrot" plumage feature
00:13 dukeleto japhb: i have been doing that manually and will probably write a script soon if you don't beat me to it
00:13 Whiteknight okay, I give up on my runcore optimization for now
00:14 Whiteknight too much hassle
00:14 confound joined #parrot
00:14 * darbelo is checking out pmc_pct now
00:14 cotto_work joined #parrot
00:15 Limbic_Region joined #parrot
00:15 chromatic Which runcore optimization?
00:17 kid51 Am experiencing a long wait on 'svn commit'
00:17 cotto_work2 joined #parrot
00:19 Limbic_Region chromatic++ - thanks for the Perl 6 Design Meeting Minutes
00:19 Whiteknight chromatic: passing a Parrot_Context** to each fastcore op function, instead of calling Parrot_pcc_get_context_struct in each one
00:19 Whiteknight probably not much of a win now that bacek has converted that to a macro
00:22 chromatic Oh, that one.  I still like the idea.
00:23 cotto_work2 whiteknight, is it just too much repetitive mindless patching or what?
00:23 kid51 All my 'svn' commands are hanging from my server ... but not from my laptop!
00:24 Whiteknight cotto_work2: Just need to rethink it
00:25 dukeleto joined #parrot
00:26 confound joined #parrot
00:28 kid51 Don't know what went wrong there, but I can now perform 'svn' commands again.
00:29 jonathanturner joined #parrot
00:29 dalek parrot: r42003 | jkeenan++ | branches/auto_libjit (7 files):
00:29 dalek parrot: Applying modified version of plobsing's alloca_optional.patch.  This configures cleanly; pre- and post-configuration tests pass without warnings, but has not yet been run thru 'make'.
00:29 dalek parrot: review: https://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/42003/
00:32 Whiteknight I've got some cleanups to the fixed-size allocator coming
00:32 Whiteknight and I have some ideas for some small improvements to it
00:32 cotto_work2 left #parrot
00:33 Whiteknight my hope is that modest improvements to an oft-called function will provide big benefits
00:34 particle joined #parrot
00:41 preflex joined #parrot
00:42 spinclad joined #parrot
00:52 abqar joined #parrot
00:53 cotto_work chromatic, r42001 is very perlish C
00:54 darbelo left #parrot
00:55 cotto_work home for me
00:56 chromatic Perlish, how?
00:59 Whiteknight chromatic: could you benchmark r42004?
00:59 Whiteknight I don't have a baseline here
01:00 Whiteknight I don't expect much improvement if any, it was a very small change.
01:00 chromatic I'll give it a shot.
01:02 dalek parrot: r42004 | whiteknight++ | trunk/src/gc (3 files):
01:02 dalek parrot: [gc] a few modest improvements to the fixed-size allocator. Reduce the number of unnecessary redundant checks that we were doing on each allocation by doing better initialization
01:02 dalek parrot: review: https://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/42004/
01:05 dukeleto i assume from my benchmarks that trunk is about 2x slower than 1.7.0 after the pcc_reapply merge. i can do some more benchmarks tonight. let me know if there are specific benchmarks that you want me to run. I will probably run the GC benchmarks and primes.pasm/fib.pir
01:05 chromatic oofib.pir is good too.
01:05 chromatic Are you running optimized builds, by the way?
01:06 dukeleto chromatic: yeps
01:06 dukeleto chromatic: and by optimized I mean passing --optimize to Configure and nothing else
01:08 chromatic Can you verify that that defines DNDEBUG in your Makefile?  If the string appears there, that's fine.
01:08 ttbot Parrot trunk/ r42004 MSWin32-x86-multi-thread make error http://tt.ro.vutbr.cz/file/cmdout/118151.txt ( http://tt.ro.vutbr.cz//buil​dstatus/pr-Parrot/rp-trunk/ )
01:12 dalek parrot: r42005 | whiteknight++ | trunk/src/gc/api.c:
01:12 dalek parrot: [gc] fix a small issue that would prevent this from building if GC_USE_FIXED_SIZE_ALLOCATOR is 0
01:12 dalek parrot: review: https://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/42005/
01:12 Smushers joined #parrot
01:12 dukeleto chromatic: checking now
01:12 dalek TT #1126 closed by coke++: tools/dev/pprof2cg.pl not installed.
01:13 dukeleto chromatic: yep, on OS X,  DNDEBUG gets defined in $CFLAGS in the makefile
01:14 dukeleto chromatic: it does -DNDEBUG but other things are like -DFOO=1 . what is the reason for that?
01:14 dukeleto chromatic: just wanted to verify that it is only defining it but not setting it
01:15 chromatic Whiteknight, a 0.084 percent improvement on my benchmark.
01:16 Whiteknight chromatic: yeah, I figured it would be small.
01:16 chromatic Nearly noise.
01:16 Whiteknight I've wanted to tighten it up for a while now though, so I did that
01:16 chromatic Nothing wrong with that.
01:16 Whiteknight remove a few if() checks for each allocation
01:17 chromatic We're up 13.232% today on this benchmark.
01:17 Whiteknight I thought Parrot_gc_mark_PObj_alive had been deleted
01:18 Whiteknight replaced with the PMC and STRING variants
01:18 chromatic We can't delete it because we don't always know what type of PObj we have.
01:18 Whiteknight okay, that's fair
01:19 dalek parrot: r42006 | chromatic++ | trunk/include/parrot/gc_api.h:
01:19 dalek parrot: [GC] Optimized the core version of Parrot_gc_mark_PMC_alive() further, this
01:19 dalek parrot: time avoiding the function call if the PMC is already alive.
01:19 dalek parrot: review: https://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/42006/
01:19 dalek parrot: r42007 | chromatic++ | trunk/src/gc/api.c:
01:19 dalek parrot: [GC] Moved mark_special() into Parrot_gc_mark_PMC_alive_fun().
01:19 dalek parrot: review: https://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/42007/
01:19 ttbot Parrot trunk/ r42005 MSWin32-x86-multi-thread make error http://tt.ro.vutbr.cz/file/cmdout/118188.txt ( http://tt.ro.vutbr.cz//buil​dstatus/pr-Parrot/rp-trunk/ )
01:19 chromatic That's another 1.206% there.
01:20 Whiteknight I was in the middle of doing that very thing!
01:20 Whiteknight I was just about to commit the mark_special thing
01:20 Whiteknight damnit
01:20 Whiteknight entire minutes of my life wasted
01:21 chromatic If you want to waste minutes of your life, get rid of some of the extra context getters/setters in Sub's invoke().
01:24 Whiteknight aye aye capn'
01:24 Coke hey, fix my segfault.
01:25 chromatic The block starting on line 451 looks like a tempting target.  Yank it out, make it static, and merge it with the block on 418 perhaps.
01:26 ttbot Parrot trunk/ r42007 MSWin32-x86-multi-thread make error http://tt.ro.vutbr.cz/file/cmdout/118227.txt ( http://tt.ro.vutbr.cz//buil​dstatus/pr-Parrot/rp-trunk/ )
01:40 Whiteknight should we just blatantly break Context encapsulation in Sub.invoke?
01:40 Whiteknight the two PMC types are pretty closely intertwined
01:41 chromatic That tempted me a bit too.
01:41 chromatic Let's take a two-step on this one.
01:41 chromatic First, clean it up a bit.
01:41 chromatic That won't hurt us at all.
01:41 chromatic Then let's break encapsulation and measure how much it helps.
01:43 Whiteknight oaky
01:43 Whiteknight I'm going to have to stash this though, my day is quickly running out
01:43 Whiteknight I'll hit it tomorrow if nobody beats me to it
01:52 preflex joined #parrot
02:01 dalek parrot: r42008 | jkeenan++ | branches/auto_libjit/config/gen/libjit.pm:
02:01 dalek parrot: No hard tabs permitted.  Rebreak some long lines (just for readability).
02:01 dalek parrot: review: https://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/42008/
02:07 dalek parrot: r42009 | jkeenan++ | branches/auto_libjit/config/gen/libjit.pm:
02:07 dalek parrot: Conform to codingstd:  no cuddled 'else'.
02:07 dalek parrot: review: https://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/42009/
02:07 dalek parrot: r42010 | jkeenan++ | branches/auto_libjit/config (3 files):
02:07 dalek parrot: [codingstd] Set SVN properties on recently added files.
02:07 dalek parrot: review: https://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/42010/
02:11 dalek parrot: r42011 | jkeenan++ | branches/auto_libjit/config (3 files):
02:11 dalek parrot: [codingstd] Set SVN properties on recently added files.
02:11 dalek parrot: review: https://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/42011/
02:11 dalek parrot: r42012 | jkeenan++ | branches/auto_libjit/config (3 files):
02:11 dalek parrot: [codingstd] No trailing whitespace.
02:11 dalek parrot: review: https://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/42012/
02:12 patspam1 joined #parrot
02:14 dalek parrot: r42013 | jkeenan++ | branches/auto_libjit/config/auto/libjit.pm:
02:14 dalek parrot: [codingstd] No hard tab characters.
02:14 dalek parrot: review: https://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/42013/
02:14 dukeleto joined #parrot
02:16 dalek partcl: b0c45e7 | coke++ | t/cmd_lsort.t:
02:16 dalek partcl: TODO a test failure from the pcc-merge
02:16 dalek partcl: review: http://github.com/partcl/partcl/commit/b​0c45e7b370139c9391455b4fe48db003374256c
02:16 shorten dalek's url is at http://xrl.us/bftt4z
02:42 janus joined #parrot
03:19 buildbot joined #parrot
03:22 preflex joined #parrot
03:41 ash_ joined #parrot
04:13 eternaleye joined #parrot
04:19 Austin joined #parrot
04:28 dalek rakudo: 0e662a7 | pmichaud++ | docs/spectest-progress.csv:
04:28 dalek rakudo: Revised spectest numbers.
04:28 dalek rakudo: spectest-progress.csv update: 453 files, 32568 (85.1% of 38284) pass, 104 fail
04:28 dalek rakudo: Failure summary:
04:28 dalek rakudo: S02-lexical-conventions/unicode.rakudo aborted 5 test(s)
04:28 dalek rakudo: S03-junctions/autothreading.rakudo aborted 78 test(s)
04:28 dalek rakudo: S12-methods/parallel-dispatch.t aborted 21 test(s)
04:28 dalek rakudo: review: http://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/0​e662a7b88f8d06d1db197470ab3eba9c8735128
04:28 shorten dalek's url is at http://xrl.us/bftukx
04:35 dalek TT #1133 created by Austin_Hastings++: MMD matching does not match 'scalar' with primitive types
04:39 dalek nqp-rx: efe456a | pmichaud++ | src/ (4 files):
04:39 dalek nqp-rx: Some code for naive token prefixes for regexes.
04:39 dalek nqp-rx: review: http://github.com/perl6/nqp-rx/commit/e​fe456ae5e840698d04e89ec627c374f1b54e8dd
04:39 shorten dalek's url is at http://xrl.us/bftumu
05:33 theory joined #parrot
05:48 riffraff joined #parrot
05:48 riffraff joined #parrot
05:50 riffraff joined #parrot
06:00 uniejo joined #parrot
06:10 eternaleye joined #parrot
06:23 dalek nqp-rx: d025580 | pmichaud++ |  (4 files):
06:23 dalek nqp-rx: Some initial work on leading token prefixes in regexes.
06:23 dalek nqp-rx: review: http://github.com/perl6/nqp-rx/commit/d​025580d56278a6bcc67093413cad01acd405f48
06:23 shorten dalek's url is at http://xrl.us/bftuwh
06:23 dalek nqp-rx: c206489 | pmichaud++ | src/ (4 files):
06:23 dalek nqp-rx: Updated version with simple protoregex token pruning.
06:23 dalek nqp-rx: review: http://github.com/perl6/nqp-rx/commit/c​206489e3b9e2d5b38057820310fdc05f182e991
06:23 shorten dalek's url is at http://xrl.us/bftuwj
06:23 dalek nqp-rx: 29e11dd | pmichaud++ | src/ (2 files):
06:23 dalek nqp-rx: Clean up some debugging messages a bit.
06:23 dalek nqp-rx: review: http://github.com/perl6/nqp-rx/commit/2​9e11dd251d4155a42a8d13994003eeaf5856212
06:23 shorten dalek's url is at http://xrl.us/bftuwm
06:39 dalek rakudo: dda5262 | pmichaud++ | docs/spectest-progress.csv:
06:39 dalek rakudo: spectest-progress.csv update: 453 files, 32614 (85.1% of 38326) pass, 83 fail
06:39 dalek rakudo: Failure summary:
06:39 dalek rakudo: S02-lexical-conventions/unicode.rakudo aborted 5 test(s)
06:39 dalek rakudo: S03-junctions/autothreading.rakudo aborted 78 test(s)
06:39 dalek rakudo: review: http://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/d​da5262473b98be1a1c209768c917600ed84aa0f
06:39 shorten dalek's url is at http://xrl.us/bftux5
06:40 dalek nqp-rx: 2577049 | pmichaud++ | src/NQP/ (2 files):
06:40 dalek nqp-rx: [nqp]:  Add elsif/else clauses.
06:40 dalek nqp-rx: review: http://github.com/perl6/nqp-rx/commit/2​5770495d8531cd7a1ff8b3f14f0f0413ea25a3e
06:40 shorten dalek's url is at http://xrl.us/bftuyb
06:42 namenlos joined #parrot
07:17 payload joined #parrot
07:38 fperrad joined #parrot
07:44 bacek joined #parrot
07:45 bacek o hai
07:45 payload joined #parrot
08:20 athomason joined #parrot
08:26 dukeleto_ 'ello
08:27 dukeleto feather is back
08:30 dukeleto so it looks like the pcc_reapply merge broke make -j, is there a TT for that?
08:33 chromatic Looks easy enough to fix.  The src/call/args$(O) target is missing two dependencies on PMC headers.
08:45 dalek rakudo: edb2547 | jnthn++ | build/Makefile.in:
08:45 dalek rakudo: Correction to Makefile for Win32 (regression introduced by accident during resig2 merge).
08:45 dalek rakudo: review: http://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/e​db2547fc190c0aa6ec509e4a6d7cd352fa50cdf
08:45 shorten dalek's url is at http://xrl.us/bftvft
08:47 dukeleto whoa, i just stumbled upon http://rakudoport.sourceforge.net/
08:50 * moritz wonders who set up this project, and if he has interest in getting the patches upstream
08:54 dalek parrot: r42014 | fperrad++ | trunk/t/pmc/float.t:
08:54 dalek parrot: [test] remove superfluous pop_eh
08:54 dalek parrot: No handler to delete.
08:54 dalek parrot: current instr.: 'negative_zero' pc 1528 (t\pmc\float.t:352)
08:54 dalek parrot: called from Sub 'test' pc 236 (t\pmc\float.t:48)
08:54 dalek parrot: review: https://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/42014/
09:02 ttbot Parrot trunk/ r42014 MSWin32-x86-multi-thread make error http://tt.ro.vutbr.cz/file/cmdout/118476.txt ( http://tt.ro.vutbr.cz//buil​dstatus/pr-Parrot/rp-trunk/ )
09:06 JimmyZ joined #parrot
09:16 dalek parrot: r42015 | fperrad++ | trunk/config/gen/config_h/config_h.in:
09:16 dalek parrot: fix banner, broken since kill_jit merge :
09:16 dalek parrot: $ parrot -V
09:16 dalek parrot: This is Parrot version 1.7.0 built for nojit.
09:17 dalek parrot: review: https://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/42015/
09:19 dalek rakudo: 924e4f3 | moritz++ | README:
09:19 dalek rakudo: mention FreeBSD port in README
09:19 dalek rakudo: review: http://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/9​24e4f33b3aabf17df4c1899961d850cf0a69b73
09:19 shorten dalek's url is at http://xrl.us/bftvmc
09:23 ttbot Parrot trunk/ r42015 MSWin32-x86-multi-thread make error http://tt.ro.vutbr.cz/file/cmdout/118525.txt ( http://tt.ro.vutbr.cz//buil​dstatus/pr-Parrot/rp-trunk/ )
09:31 payload joined #parrot
09:32 payload1 joined #parrot
09:57 dalek nqp-rx: 045112d | pmichaud++ | src/ (3 files):
09:57 dalek nqp-rx: Rework building of initial tokens in terms of PAST.
09:57 dalek nqp-rx: review: http://github.com/perl6/nqp-rx/commit/0​45112d572f0faf11af8b629d0c775a8f35f85aa
09:57 dalek nqp-rx: 40d3046 | pmichaud++ | src/Regex/Cursor-protoregex-peek.pir:
09:57 shorten dalek's url is at http://xrl.us/bftvyp
09:57 dalek nqp-rx: Some infrastructure to allow protoregex peeks.
09:57 dalek nqp-rx: review: http://github.com/perl6/nqp-rx/commit/4​0d30464c7e1d13ed9f49e405c52ebcc6b74bc28
09:57 shorten dalek's url is at http://xrl.us/bftvyr
09:57 dalek nqp-rx: 503d396 | pmichaud++ | src/PAST/Regex.pir:
09:57 dalek nqp-rx: More peekability for enumcharclass nodes.
09:57 dalek nqp-rx: review: http://github.com/perl6/nqp-rx/commit/5​03d396dc54ab534a0211092215205c4dce5b278
09:57 shorten dalek's url is at http://xrl.us/bftvyt
09:58 dalek parrot: r42016 | mikehh++ | trunk/src/gc/mark_sweep.c:
09:58 dalek parrot: fix codetest failures - space between keyword and open parenthesis and missing documentation
09:58 dalek parrot: review: https://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/42016/
10:06 ttbot Parrot trunk/ r42016 MSWin32-x86-multi-thread make error http://tt.ro.vutbr.cz/file/cmdout/118574.txt ( http://tt.ro.vutbr.cz//buil​dstatus/pr-Parrot/rp-trunk/ )
10:08 payload joined #parrot
10:08 dalek parrot: r42017 | mikehh++ | trunk/config/auto/frames.pm:
10:08 dalek parrot: fix codetest failure - perlcritic does not like TODO in perl modules
10:08 dalek parrot: review: https://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/42017/
10:11 donaldh joined #parrot
10:14 ttbot Parrot trunk/ r42017 MSWin32-x86-multi-thread make error http://tt.ro.vutbr.cz/file/cmdout/118608.txt ( http://tt.ro.vutbr.cz//buil​dstatus/pr-Parrot/rp-trunk/ )
10:32 Austin seen japhb
10:32 purl japhb was last seen on #parrot 10 hours, 50 minutes and 39 seconds ago, saying: I'm thinking of having metadata for each HLL that says where to find their current desired parrot-rev, and then allowing users to say 'upgrade to tip' or 'upgrade to version blessed by project foo'
10:45 Austin joined #parrot
10:52 masak joined #parrot
11:20 payload joined #parrot
11:25 nopaste "mikehh" at 81.149.189.7 pasted "t/pmc/threads.t is failing in testr (fulltest)" (46 lines) at http://nopaste.snit.ch/18411
11:33 dalek parrot: r42018 | mikehh++ | trunk/t/pmc/threads.t:
11:33 dalek parrot: fix TODO passes in testC and testS - TODO passed: 13
11:33 dalek parrot: review: https://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/42018/
11:39 kid51 joined #parrot
11:45 ttbot Parrot trunk/ r42018 MSWin32-x86-multi-thread make error http://tt.ro.vutbr.cz/file/cmdout/118672.txt ( http://tt.ro.vutbr.cz//buil​dstatus/pr-Parrot/rp-trunk/ )
12:05 whiteknight joined #parrot
12:05 Austin howdy, whiteknight
12:05 whiteknight good morrow, Austin
12:05 whiteknight how are you doing today?
12:06 Austin I'm doing pretty good.
12:06 Austin I'm taking a bunch of code out of the close project and making it a general-purpose library.
12:07 Austin Now, of course, it needs testing and docs. :(
12:07 mokurai left #parrot
12:10 masak hi, does this look strange to anyone? http://gist.github.com/215912
12:11 Austin I wonder what is the difference between language PIR and language parrot, compiler wise?
12:11 whiteknight masak: extremely weird
12:11 masak whiteknight: well, now you know how to reproduce it.
12:11 whiteknight Can you create a ticket?
12:11 masak just push stuff to an array in a long Perl 6 for loop.
12:11 masak whiteknight: I'll try.
12:12 whiteknight awesome. Thanks
12:16 dalek TT #1134 created by masak++: Extremely weird stack trace produced my Parrot when allocating things in a ...
12:17 masak er, s/my/by/
12:18 dalek parrot: r42019 | jkeenan++ | branches/auto_libjit/config/auto/libjit.pm:
12:18 dalek parrot: Add documentation patch contributed by plobsing++ in https://trac.parrot.org/parrot/ticket/1105.
12:18 dalek parrot: review: https://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/42019/
12:27 dalek nqp-rx: 0abc653 | pmichaud++ |  (5 files):
12:27 dalek nqp-rx: Convert token peeks to use separate *__PEEK methods.
12:27 dalek nqp-rx: review: http://github.com/perl6/nqp-rx/commit/0​abc653d42b221373435c62231dbca4b9b362451
12:27 dalek nqp-rx: 9197d53 | pmichaud++ | src/ (5 files):
12:27 dalek nqp-rx: Switch to using !PREFIX__* instead of *__PEEK.
12:27 dalek nqp-rx: review: http://github.com/perl6/nqp-rx/commit/9​197d535c5353bc0d3297eaa0337b52d9d6cc281
12:27 dalek nqp-rx: c82db7d | pmichaud++ |  (5 files):
12:27 dalek nqp-rx: Initial code for subrule peeking.
12:27 dalek nqp-rx: review: http://github.com/perl6/nqp-rx/commit/c​82db7d4facddcfff6ae0b39e8c1efba2465238d
12:27 dalek nqp-rx: 4388311 | pmichaud++ | src/Regex/Cursor-protoregex-peek.pir:
12:27 dalek nqp-rx: Handle the case where !PREFIX_* returns a nested array.
12:27 dalek nqp-rx: review: http://github.com/perl6/nqp-rx/commit/4​388311d4ac688031ae42e18d9636638ffa73619
12:27 shorten dalek's url is at http://xrl.us/bft2nk
12:27 shorten dalek's url is at http://xrl.us/bft2nt
12:27 shorten dalek's url is at http://xrl.us/bft2nx
12:27 shorten dalek's url is at http://xrl.us/bft2nz
12:28 whiteknight I feel like maybe shorten doesn't serve much of a useful purpose here
12:28 moritz purl: shorten that
12:28 purl That URL is at http://xrl.us/bft2pc [xrl.us]
12:28 moritz whiteknight: agreed. Purl can do the same thing on demand
12:29 whiteknight well that's a nice feature
12:29 moritz so should we just kick shorten?
12:30 szbalint One bot shorter would be nice
12:30 szbalint :)
12:30 was kicked by moritz: we don't need you anymore, thanks for your service
12:33 Austin So can I unignore shorten, now?
12:33 Austin Or is this a temporary bootage?
12:35 moritz Austin: I do plan to keep it away unless I'm told otherwise
12:35 Austin cool
12:37 dalek parrot: r42020 | mikehh++ | trunk/t/op/debuginfo.t:
12:38 dalek parrot: remove TODOs - test now passes on all runcores
12:38 dalek parrot: review: https://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/42020/
12:44 ttbot Parrot trunk/ r42020 MSWin32-x86-multi-thread make error http://tt.ro.vutbr.cz/file/cmdout/118727.txt ( http://tt.ro.vutbr.cz//buil​dstatus/pr-Parrot/rp-trunk/ )
12:50 dalek parrot: r42021 | mikehh++ | trunk/t/compilers/imcc/syn/regressions.t:
12:50 dalek parrot: remove a TODO that passes in switch runcore
12:50 dalek parrot: review: https://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/42021/
12:52 bluescreen joined #parrot
12:54 PerlJam joined #parrot
12:57 dalek parrot: r42022 | mikehh++ | trunk/t/compilers/imcc/syn/macro.t:
12:57 dalek parrot: remove TODOs that pass in switch runcore - the test now passes all runcores
12:57 dalek parrot: review: https://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/42022/
12:57 ttbot Parrot trunk/ r42021 MSWin32-x86-multi-thread make error http://tt.ro.vutbr.cz/file/cmdout/118765.txt ( http://tt.ro.vutbr.cz//buil​dstatus/pr-Parrot/rp-trunk/ )
13:01 davidfetter joined #parrot
13:04 ttbot Parrot trunk/ r42022 MSWin32-x86-multi-thread make error http://tt.ro.vutbr.cz/file/cmdout/118795.txt ( http://tt.ro.vutbr.cz//buil​dstatus/pr-Parrot/rp-trunk/ )
13:07 dalek parrot: r42023 | mikehh++ | trunk/t/compilers/imcc/syn/regressions.t:
13:07 dalek parrot: remove SKIP/TODO that now passes
13:07 dalek parrot: review: https://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/42023/
13:08 particle joined #parrot
13:09 dalek xml: 14487d8 | fperrad++ | handler/xmlwriter/xmlwriter.pir:
13:09 dalek xml: Now the class Xml::Handler::XmlWriter is generated in gen_actions.pir
13:09 dalek xml: review: http://github.com/fperrad/xml/commit/14​487d8267141725dea34361a2022e0bc39374f4
13:13 ttbot Parrot trunk/ r42023 MSWin32-x86-multi-thread make error http://tt.ro.vutbr.cz/file/cmdout/118830.txt ( http://tt.ro.vutbr.cz//buil​dstatus/pr-Parrot/rp-trunk/ )
13:22 dalek TT #1102 closed by mikehh++: test failures with t/compilers/imcc/syn/macro.t and regressions.t in fast, ...
13:24 Coke /win 3
13:29 dalek TT #1135 created by coke++: t/op/annotate-old.t fails using -f core
13:38 whiteknight yay! activity
13:38 whiteknight dalek and the commit feed might be my single favorite part of the whole Parrot projet
13:38 whiteknight it's just so fun to watch!
13:39 dalek TT #1124 closed by mikehh++: t/op/arithmetics_pmc.t is skipping bigint/bignum test even when gmp is ...
13:42 * Coke hopes parrot's public irc face is a little less scary than perl's.
13:42 davidfetter it is in here
13:44 dalek TT #1136 created by coke++: interactive partcl segfaults in Parrot_str_byte_length
13:45 ash_ joined #parrot
13:47 Coke that seems like a simple fix.
13:47 Coke (1136)
14:11 theory joined #parrot
14:16 ash__ joined #parrot
14:27 bluescreen joined #parrot
14:35 whiteknight I'm consistently very pleased with the professional demeanor that we've displayed around here
14:35 whiteknight the chatroom and the mailing list are both very hospitable
14:48 allison joined #parrot
14:53 Psyche^ joined #parrot
14:54 whiteknight I've never seen how bad #perl is supposed to get though, so I can't compare
14:54 Andy joined #parrot
14:56 mikehh trunk - pre/post-config, smoke (#29303) PASS, fulltest FAIL at r42023 - Ubuntu 9.10 (beta updated) amd64
14:56 mikehh t/op/annotate-old.t -  Failed test:  1 - in testf and testg (TT #1135)
14:56 mikehh t/pmc/threads.t - Failed tests:  8-9 - in testr
14:58 whiteknight join #perl
15:01 NotFound Enjoy: http://code.google.com/p/winxed/
15:03 * Coke finds http://github.com/perl6/book
15:03 rdice joined #parrot
15:03 nopaste "fperrad" at 77.206.50.26 pasted "[PATCH] Lua PMC with pcc" (625 lines) at http://nopaste.snit.ch/18413
15:04 nopaste "fperrad" at 77.206.50.26 pasted "I try without to convert Lua to pcc" (3 lines) at http://nopaste.snit.ch/18414
15:09 whiteknight NotFound: I can't believe you are doing it in C++
15:10 NotFound whiteknight: Is my favourite tool.
15:10 whiteknight power to you!
15:10 whiteknight excellent tokenizer
15:11 NotFound At least, until winxed get powerful enough to bootstrap.
15:11 whiteknight yes
15:12 NotFound Note that it uses a infinite memory gc ;)
15:14 whiteknight NotFound: there is an ECMAScript compiler somewhere, any thought on that?
15:15 NotFound whiteknight: I worked on it sometimes, but is too bitrotten. Need attention from someone used to the P6 classes used.
15:15 whiteknight okay, so a new JavaScript implemenation was necessary
15:15 * Coke wishes github's fork button had a "are you sure" on it.
15:16 NotFound Winxed is not javascript, just uses a familiar syntax.
15:16 whiteknight ok
15:19 NotFound Maybe, just maybe, some day can be javascript compatible.
15:20 Coke *::YourNameIsPudge
15:26 dalek rakudo: 37956bf | duff++ |  (3 files):
15:26 dalek rakudo: Updates in preparation for release
15:26 dalek rakudo: review: http://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/3​7956bfca44c87cf966b8720ddb35730c3f25234
15:35 whiteknight NotFound: so winxed is just a compiler for your language to PIR?
15:35 whiteknight it doesn't appear to link to Parrot directly at all
15:37 NotFound whiteknight: no, just execute parrot after compiling, unless options to just compile are used.
15:38 dukeleto 'ello
15:38 Tene hi leto
15:38 whiteknight hello duke
15:38 dukeleto Tene: good localtime()
15:41 Tene dukeleto: AFK
15:45 dukeleto msg darbelo if you do "git config branch.master.rebase true" in your plumage git repo, we won't see when you merge as a commit
15:45 purl Message for darbelo stored.
15:45 Coke away afk
15:45 Coke ww
15:52 dalek nqp-rx: 076c241 | pmichaud++ | src/ (3 files):
15:52 dalek nqp-rx: Refactor protoregex token list generation a bit, add some dump methods to
15:52 dalek nqp-rx: inspect tables.
15:52 dalek nqp-rx: review: http://github.com/perl6/nqp-rx/commit/0​76c24197a239490a4088666ff16adc223a4be93
15:52 dalek nqp-rx: adf59e2 | pmichaud++ | src/ (3 files):
15:52 dalek nqp-rx: More refactors, add in ability to build peek tokens from subrules.
15:52 dalek nqp-rx: review: http://github.com/perl6/nqp-rx/commit/a​df59e2ca391da3e8f6c04c4032c92f31ef494f2
15:52 dalek nqp-rx: 8ffa9b0 | pmichaud++ | src/ (3 files):
15:52 dalek nqp-rx: Fix secondary sorting of protoregex candidates.
15:53 dalek nqp-rx: review: http://github.com/perl6/nqp-rx/commit/8​ffa9b091facec79632b3dde1115e83d84a9532a
15:56 fperrad I try without success to convert Lua to pcc
16:00 payload joined #parrot
16:19 cotto_work good day
16:19 purl every day above ground is a good day
16:22 dalek rakudo: 281e3b2 | duff++ | t/spectest.data:
16:22 dalek rakudo: Uncomment regressed spectests
16:22 dalek rakudo: review: http://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/2​81e3b29259d74e10d3ecc922157f06f5bfd60a4
16:26 mikehh joined #parrot
16:36 whiteknight "Every day above ground is a good day" <- I used to have a boss who said that
16:36 whiteknight and he was the most evil, rotten sonofabitch I ever met
16:38 donaldh joined #parrot
16:44 ash_ whiteknight: i know you made a blog post about someone working on a libjit branch, i was wondering if you think that person would mind if i took that branch and changed it to use llvm's jit to see if there are any major differences (speed or otherwise)
16:45 whiteknight ash_: we want a framework that supports both
16:45 whiteknight so we won't want to delete the libjit stuff, but add some #ifdefs and support both with configure flags
16:45 whiteknight but yes, it is a project that we want people to work on
16:46 whiteknight if you wrote a ground-up patch to add llvm frame builder support to trunk, we could integrate it with the libjit work later
16:47 cotto_work whiteknight, how hard is it to write a frame builder?  It seems like plobsing++ hacked one out pretty quickly.
16:47 whiteknight cotto_work: shouldn't be too hard, for a naive implementation
16:48 whiteknight that is, we're not doing any kind of aggressive optimizing on these, because building NCI frames happens infrequently
16:56 japhb Austin, were you trying to reach me earlier?
17:21 jan joined #parrot
17:30 particle . o O ( whiteknight worked for purl? )
17:30 whiteknight ?
17:31 particle good day
17:31 purl every day above ground is a good day
17:31 cotto_work maybe it was in Soviet Russia
17:39 rdice joined #parrot
17:41 bacek joined #parrot
17:47 bluescreen joined #parrot
17:51 mokurai joined #parrot
17:54 fperrad_ joined #parrot
17:57 chromatic joined #parrot
18:06 dukeleto purl, good day is also I love the smell of napalm in the morning. It's the smell of victory.
18:06 purl okay, dukeleto.
18:18 desertm4x joined #parrot
18:19 whiteknight good day
18:19 purl every day above ground is a good day or I love the smell of napalm in the morning. It's the smell of victory.
18:24 bacek Good morning (fsvo good)
18:24 whiteknight hello bacek
18:24 bacek g'day whiteknight
18:24 whiteknight dukeleto: I've never much appreciated the smell of napalm
18:25 cotto_work hi bacek
18:25 cotto_work I
18:25 cotto_work 've never smelled napalm.
18:25 bacek hody cotto_work
18:25 whiteknight cotto_work: for the best. Nothing good comes from it
18:25 * cotto_work notes he should probably avoid typing apostrophes.
18:25 whiteknight incredibly easy to make some, if you're interested
18:26 chromatic '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''
18:26 chromatic I have extra.
18:27 whiteknight I hit return far too often when I'm reaching for the apostrophy
18:27 * cotto_work realizes that chromatic wasn't saying that he has extra napalm.
18:27 whiteknight something about my stupid, awkward little pinky not being accurate as I would like
18:28 whiteknight now my index finger, it's like a damn sniper rifle
18:28 japhb "Bad Pinkie, No Biscuit!"
18:39 payload joined #parrot
18:42 cotto_work Is TT #1134 with a post-merge parrot?
18:43 cotto_work apparently not
18:43 whiteknight I think it's pre-merge. It was generated with Rakud
18:43 whiteknight and Rakudo doesn't work yet with post-mege parrot
18:44 cotto_work I just noticed.
18:44 cotto_work It doesn't even build, which is at least a nice early failure.
18:44 whiteknight considering the goofyness of the backtrace, I'm not convinced it uses any real version of parrot
18:45 cotto_work gen-parrot++
18:55 chromatic I like this analysis: http://dustin.github.com/2009/1​0/22/memcached-reportcard.html
18:55 darbelo joined #parrot
19:03 cotto_work It's funny to think of 20 open bugs being a large number.
19:04 dalek nqp-rx: 981e5ea | pmichaud++ | src/ (3 files):
19:04 dalek nqp-rx: Allow prefix token peeks to traverse through initial subrules.
19:04 dalek nqp-rx: review: http://github.com/perl6/nqp-rx/commit/9​81e5ead36ca28dcffc14677403a1ed229d9ca52
19:04 dalek nqp-rx: 3b82660 | pmichaud++ | src/ (3 files):
19:04 dalek nqp-rx: Rename some internal methods to be more consistent.
19:04 dalek nqp-rx: review: http://github.com/perl6/nqp-rx/commit/3​b826603c2f0290ec707621c628451bba14f23fd
19:06 dalek parrot-mysql: r11 | julian.notfound++ | trunk/parrot-mysql.json:
19:06 dalek parrot-mysql: update plumage metadata
19:06 dalek parrot-mysql: review: http://code.google.com/p/par​rot-mysql/source/detail?r=11
19:09 whiteknight Parrot isn't nearly stable enough that we could guarantee all crashes and failures reported be fixed within a month
19:09 whiteknight but a part of that is that Parrot has a much larger external-facing API then memcached does
19:10 cotto_work I'm not saying it should be a goal for us.
19:10 chromatic It'd be interesting to graph the mean time to fix reported bugs though.
19:10 cotto_work There are major differences in maturity and scope between Parrot and memcached.
19:10 whiteknight I suggest that the majority of bugs are still open
19:11 cotto_work you could probably implement memcached in parrot (why is another question)
19:11 darbelo We still have frekin' RT tickets to close, that doesn't make us look too good in the 'speedy resolution' category.
19:12 whiteknight many of those open bugs are far too vague to ever be closed
19:12 whiteknight I tried to close a bunch of vague old tickets, was rebuked, and stopped doing it
19:12 NotFound Lots of projects have few bugs because they are speedy to close with "Not a bug" or "Wontfix"
19:12 chromatic Anything older than a couple of years that we can't reliably reproduce and can't get feedback from the reporters within a couple of weeks seems like a viable candidate.
19:13 cotto_work NotFound, have you considered generating PAST from your compiler?
19:13 NotFound cotto_work: taking into acoount that I don't have a clue about PAST, no.
19:17 * pmichaud_ looks forward to writing some books containing clues about PAST.
19:18 Coke rt slooow
19:19 KatrinaTheLamia joined #parrot
19:21 chromatic Hm, gcc *does* perform tail call elimination.
19:23 nopaste "chromatic" at 72.87.39.97 pasted "-t" (30 lines) at http://nopaste.snit.ch/18417
19:23 chromatic Hm, that didn't work like I expected.
19:24 chromatic Likely-case first attribute pool allocation (for whiteknight): http://nopaste.snit.ch/18417
19:25 whiteknight Yeah, I couldn't figure out whether we should look in the freelist or the fresh arena first, so I didn't pick a default
19:25 whiteknight but that patch is superior in either case
19:26 chromatic Freelist first, for sure.
19:27 whiteknight depends on lifetime of the program, I think
19:27 whiteknight but in general, you're probably right
19:28 chromatic Upwards of 80% I'm right, I'm certain.
19:28 chromatic I can imagine pathological cases where running full GC *won't* put anything on the free list, but that's a very complex program almost certainly designed to build and keep a full object graph around.
19:28 whiteknight sounds like a sane default to me. Ship it
19:28 chromatic Even so, you have to do a lot of work to get away from internal-use GCables that we're likely to free.
19:29 cotto_work see also: programming satan's computer
19:29 darbelo Hm. What should Parrot_str_byte_length return with a NULL argument?
19:29 chromatic I don't mind a modest penalty for a single-subroutine PIR program that builds a highly-cyclic object graph.
19:29 whiteknight darbelo: What does it do now in trunk, or what should it do theoretically?
19:30 darbelo segfault.
19:30 purl well don't DO that, then.
19:30 darbelo Parrot_str_byte_length(SHIM_INTERP, ARGIN(const STRING *s))
19:30 darbelo return s->strlen;
19:30 whiteknight ah, so that's probably the worng thing
19:30 dalek parrot-mysql: r12 | julian.notfound++ | trunk/Makefile:
19:30 dalek parrot-mysql: fix library dir
19:30 dalek parrot-mysql: review: http://code.google.com/p/par​rot-mysql/source/detail?r=12
19:30 darbelo We could fake it and return 0
19:30 whiteknight right now, I think it should return 0 or -1 (ask allison)
19:31 whiteknight in the world of STRINGNULL, no issues
19:31 darbelo A NULL pointer in *not* a string, we shouldn't return a valid length for it.
19:31 chromatic That reminds me, STRINGNULL would be nice for 1.8.
19:31 whiteknight chromatic: estimate, how much effort to do that?
19:32 cotto_work chromatic, would that just be a sentinel value?
19:32 whiteknight cotto_work: it would be a global singleton, like PMCNULL
19:32 whiteknight an immutable global singleton
19:32 Tene you know what I realized we're really lacking in terms of production quality?  IO.
19:32 cotto_work ok
19:32 whiteknight Tene: agreed
19:33 NotFound whiteknight: PMCNULL is able to catch misusages because it has a function table.
19:33 chromatic Adding STRINGNULL is reasonably easy.
19:33 whiteknight NotFound: A STRINGNULL would be a STRING structure with properly initialized fields
19:33 chromatic Using it everywhere we need it would be less so.
19:34 whiteknight it could be used transparently for most cases like a normal STRING
19:34 chromatic Exactly my thoughts.
19:34 NotFound whiteknight: that way error will be hard to catch. At least a segfault is viewable.
19:34 whiteknight and a if(STRING_IS_NULL()) {} for other cases
19:35 Tene I keep considering starting to tackle the IO tasklist.
19:35 whiteknight without STRINGNULL, segfaults are inevitable. With it, no so
19:35 whiteknight Tene: I got stalled on pipes. I don't know a lot about pipes. So I'll be happy to work on IO if pipes can get implemented
19:36 whiteknight I'll be happy to help somebody who is more knowledgable then I
19:38 dalek nqp-rx: b7a03fc | pmichaud++ | src/NQP/Grammar.pm:
19:38 dalek nqp-rx: [nqp]:  Make statements smarter about detecting end of block/arglist/compunit.
19:38 dalek nqp-rx: review: http://github.com/perl6/nqp-rx/commit/b​7a03fcb1d1fef11edcb13deb99b2c163e65e0b7
19:40 whiteknight I think that Parrot's huge bug list actually acts like a detriment. It's so large and unmanagable that people ignore it
19:40 whiteknight plus there aren't clear priorities that people can focus on, so some failures never get the attention they deserve
19:40 chromatic We have 493 open TTs.  That doesn't seem huge.
19:40 whiteknight not huge, but not reasonable either
19:41 dalek parrot: r42024 | chromatic++ | trunk/src/gc/mark_sweep.c:
19:41 dalek parrot: [GC] Rearranged branches in Parrot_gc_get_attributes_from_pool() in descending
19:41 dalek parrot: order of likelihood.  This is a modest optimization in performance and clarity.
19:41 dalek parrot: review: https://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/42024/
19:41 chromatic 492
19:41 dalek TT #1062 closed by chromatic++: Type safe mark alive
19:41 whiteknight this is why I like the idea of testing and bug-fixing hackathons before a release
19:42 whiteknight otherwise there's no motivation to triage through the ticket queue
19:43 chromatic Half of the GC bugs look closeable to me.
19:43 darbelo The "That will be fixed when we unfuck subsytem 'Y'" problem doesn't help.
19:43 Tene I know pretty much nothing about pipes... maybe time to start learning.
19:44 whiteknight Infinoid had done some work in the io_cleanps branch at one point. I'll try to give you his patch so you can look at it
19:44 japhb Our open ticket count is in the same range as the release-critical bug list for the entire Debian "testing" distro.  Mind you, those are RC bugs.  But they're also across tens of thousands of packages ....
19:46 chromatic mikehh, is TT #1110 still an issue for you?
19:47 ttbot Parrot trunk/ r42024 MSWin32-x86-multi-thread make error http://tt.ro.vutbr.cz/file/cmdout/118997.txt ( http://tt.ro.vutbr.cz//buil​dstatus/pr-Parrot/rp-trunk/ )
19:48 whiteknight I personally would like to see a more comprehensive roadmap, with a more standard process for putting items onto it
19:48 whiteknight then a lot of "Implement feature X" tickets can just be turned into items on the roadmap
19:49 whiteknight I would also like to find a way to group tickets better by subsystem, and produce a report that shows the grouping
19:49 whiteknight that way we can see which systems need work, and which systems are in the most trouble (to inform large-scale refactors and fix operations)
19:51 chromatic Someone should remove files we've removed from the exception list in t/codingstd/c_function_docs.t.
19:51 chromatic We should also decide when we're going to remove src/gc/res_lea.c.
19:51 darbelo chromatic: what stands in the way of that?
19:52 whiteknight nothing
19:52 * darbelo votes for 'now' then.
19:53 whiteknight do it. Seriously
19:53 soxet joined #parrot
19:53 whiteknight print the file out, burn the paper, then delete the file
19:54 dalek TT #533 closed by chromatic++: headerizer not headerizing src/gc/gc_malloc.c
19:54 hercynium joined #parrot
19:54 chromatic TT #800 needs tests.  Who likes to write tests?
19:55 darbelo Wait, this is the malloc gc. Didn't I kill it already?
19:58 whiteknight chromatic: assign it to me
19:58 whiteknight I need to increase my test-foo
19:58 joeri joined #parrot
19:59 chromatic No need for assignment if you hop to it now!
19:59 whiteknight can't do it now. At work and about to pack up and go home
20:07 whiteknight actually...packing up and going home now. Later
20:11 mikehh chromatic: checking
20:19 mikehh chromatic: yes g++ 4.4.1 fails on building - src/string/api.c:2801: error: invalid conversion from ‘const char*’ to ‘char*’
20:19 mikehh last time I checked g++ 4.3 worked in Ubuntu 9.04 - this is in 9.10 (beta - updated)
20:21 mikehh but I think the objection might be valid as the sub modifies the so called const string passed
20:21 mikehh it definately looks that g++ 4.4.1 catches things that slip through earlier compilers
20:22 barney joined #parrot
20:22 cotto_work hi barney
20:22 NotFound strchr is a know source of that type of problems.
20:22 barney hi
20:22 purl salut, barney.
20:23 chromatic Thanks, mikehh.  I think I can work around it.
20:23 darbelo We shouldn't be using strchr at all. STRINGs can have NULL bytes in them.
20:24 bacek chromatic: ping
20:24 NotFound darbelo: strings intended to be unescaped, I hope not.
20:24 cotto_work Hmm.  It sounds like we should have more tests in which STRINGs have non-terminal null bytes.
20:24 mikehh what worries me is how many other problems it is going to pick up - that's the first routine it tries to compile after the tools/build/c2str.pl
20:25 nopaste "bacek" at 114.73.173.198 pasted "Small patch for PCC to reduce GC pressure for chromatic++ for review :)" (722 lines) at http://nopaste.snit.ch/18418
20:26 NotFound mikehh: do a grep for strchr, will be a good estimation ;)
20:26 dukeleto small patch != 722 lines
20:26 bacek dukeleto: :)
20:27 cotto_work It's a Russian "small" apparently.
20:27 chromatic There's a push_pointer vtable?
20:27 darbelo NotFound: You are right, I hadn't looked at the function being discussed.
20:28 bacek chromatic: I just added it.
20:28 bacek Sorry, forgot to put it into diff
20:28 mikehh ack strchr from the parrot root gives about 20 instances
20:28 chromatic How's it benchmark?
20:29 bacek chromatic: didn't tested yet, rebuilding with --optimise now
20:30 NotFound darbelo: BTW, you asked yesterday if I posted Winxed somewhere. Done, http://code.google.com/p/winxed/
20:32 dukeleto bacek: you mean --optimize. those brits don't know how to spell
20:33 nopaste "bacek" at 114.73.173.198 pasted "Full version of diff" (742 lines) at http://nopaste.snit.ch/18419
20:34 bacek darbelo: nope, and it's colour and gaol :)
20:34 mikehh dukeleto: hey youse guys messed that up and didn't complete the project completely
20:36 japhb Plumage team: I need some design input.  Rakudo (and I assume probably the other HLLs) will soon have rather tight and possibly rapidly-changing version requirements on Parrot and especially nqp-rx.  I had initially been assuming we would add version requirements directly to the metadata files, but for an HLL in rapid development, the lag between the project's requirements changing and when someone gets around to updating the metadata is u
20:36 japhb nacceptable.  So now I need some way to update dependency requirements after fetch (or possibly after configure).  I've got a couple very rough ideas on how to specify in the metadata that some dependencies are dynamic, and what to require of a project to state these dependencies, but I feel like I'm in a local minima in the solutions space, and I'd like suggestions if y'all have any.
20:37 bacek chromatic: 1M less pmc allocations
20:38 bacek chromatic: on fib.pir
20:38 darbelo NotFound: Saw the link in the irclogs. Haven't looked at the code yet.
20:39 NotFound Don't look, just compile it ;)
20:42 darbelo I'll try it later.
20:43 japhb darbelo, dukeleto, Tene?  Any ideas on my quandry above?
20:43 Tene lemme look
20:44 Tene japhb: you already have a solution in the design space somewhere... have the HLL host a metadata file.
20:44 japhb If it helps to get the mental juices flowing, I can explain my ideas, but I just didn't want to poison everyone's thinking processes.
20:44 NotFound japhb: having the posibility having an updated metadata in the fetched package and use that will be nice.
20:45 Tene then just refer to that metadata file as included or whatever
20:46 japhb hmmm, Tene, NotFound, that definitely sucks less than my idea.
20:46 NotFound BTW the writable check on my system fails.
20:46 japhb NotFound, oh?
20:47 japhb NotFound, why does it fail?
20:47 bacek chromatic: about 3% on fib.pir. On something heavier (with returning more results it will give more)
20:47 NotFound It uses sudo, but my parrot is installed under my home dir
20:47 japhb NotFound, so clearly it should not have needed the sudo ...
20:48 japhb Hmmm.  Debugging assistance greatly appreciated.
20:48 japhb Assuming you have a signed PaFo CLA in, I can just add you to the repo as a committer.  :-)
20:48 NotFound japhb: there is some way to execute the test isolated?
20:49 NotFound Uh.... I forgot again to send the CLA.
20:49 japhb NotFound, should be able to run parrot_nqp from the command line, load_bytecode() the helper libraries, and then use the writable test.
20:50 darbelo Grandfathers and their forgetfulness...
20:50 japhb There will eventually be tests for it, but I don't think dukeleto's had a chance to catch up with my recent additions.
20:51 NotFound I'm not a grandfather, I don't even have a child
20:52 davidfetter ...that you know of
20:53 darbelo NotFound: Pun on 'grandfather cluse'.
20:53 Austin joined #parrot
20:54 NotFound Will you still give me a commit bit when I'm sixty-four?
20:55 NotFound ooo oooo ooo
20:55 japhb We'll still need you.  Don't know about feeding you, though.
20:55 japhb Maybe buy you a $beverage
20:55 NotFound Good enough
20:57 chromatic Hm, 1M fewer PMCs is good, but 3% doesn't seem like a big improvement for adding one vtable entry.
20:57 cotto_work as a trade-off, we could kill several others.
20:58 chromatic ... especially if that vtable entry goes unused after we merge Context and CallSig.  It may or may not, but ....
20:58 darbelo Mark it 'experimental' and kill as soon as you're done with it.
21:01 chromatic How long will it last, though?
21:04 darbelo It depends on how soon can context and Callsig be merged.
21:04 darbelo I think that blocked on the deprecation policy. So, february?
21:05 chromatic I don't think that has to be the case.
21:06 cotto_work I don't think anything prevents that from happening now.  We might need a trivial PMC that extends the (yet-nonexistent) merged Context.
21:06 chromatic If we removed CallSignature entirely, we could add a fake CallSignature that does nothing more than inherit from Capture again.
21:14 bacek we still need something to replace PRA of CPointers
21:15 colomon joined #parrot
21:17 Coke chromatic: how small is very small for stack size?
21:23 cotto_work btw, I can't reproduce the crazy stack trace in TT #1134 on my x64/linux box
21:24 cotto_work has anyone else tried?
21:28 bacek bah... Looks I compared non-optimised build of CallSignatureReturns with optimised build of trunk.
21:29 chromatic Coke, 35 mb, perhaps.
21:29 cotto_work bacek, looks like a ~5% improvement
21:30 cotto_work (4926938130-4488471358)/4926938130
21:30 purl 0.088993764571588
21:30 cotto_work or that
21:30 Whiteknight joined #parrot
21:30 cotto_work (860015945-794708479)/860015945
21:30 purl 0.0759375060191471
21:31 cotto_work fib and oofib, respectively
21:31 bacek 8.8 and 7.5%
21:31 purl 8.875
21:31 japhb not bad
21:32 cotto_work now let's have a look at this code which I downloaded over http, built and ran without checking it first
21:33 darbelo cotto_work: was it a gift from the greeks?
21:35 cotto_work bacek, do you have any Greek blood? ;)
21:35 bacek cotto_work: I've got Greek name :)
21:35 payload joined #parrot
21:35 * darbelo realizes he doen't know bacek's name.
21:36 chromatic I thought it was Sky Net.
21:36 bacek (7382453772 - 6546974232) / 7382453772 * 100
21:36 purl 11.3170981600831
21:36 bacek yay, 11% on my box for fib.pir
21:36 darbelo Oh, is that your serial number?
21:36 darbelo ;)
21:37 bacek darbelo: Vasily :)
21:37 Austin darbelo: bacek.name eq 'Vasily Chelkin', modulo spelling errors.
21:38 bacek Austin: quite few of them :) Actually Chekalkin
21:38 Austin My bad. 'Vasily Chekalkin'
21:38 bacek Austin: no worries
21:38 darbelo Hm. Is it a spelling error to use the wrong character set?
21:39 Austin bacek: What? Manhattan distance was only 2.
21:39 Austin :)
21:39 Austin darbelo: No, it's a transcoding. There's a method for that in Parrot.
21:39 bacek Austin: Levenstein :)
21:40 japhb bacek: "edit".  I hate naming concepts after people when the person's name has no intrinsic link to the concept.
21:41 Austin If people just remember the name, that won't be a problem.
21:42 Austin Hey, I have a plumage problem. How do I report it?
21:42 japhb Austin: People are not wired that way.  Computers are.
21:42 japhb Austin, you talk to me.  :-)  Or do a parrot TT, and assign it to me.
21:43 bacek japhb: what do you mean about "concept"?
21:43 Austin japhb: Au contraire! People are definitely wired that way. Nobody in the world knows WTF amotropic lateral sclerosis might be, or how it differs from other lateral scleroses, but if you mention Lou Gehrig's diease you'll get a whole different response.
21:43 japhb bacek: if you did not already know, how would you remember whether "Hamming" or "Levenshtein" distance was the one you meant?
21:44 Austin bacek: He's talking about Levenshtein distance vs. "edit distance".
21:44 Austin japhb: (plumage) I'm getting "invoke() not implemented in class 'Undef'" after fetching and trying to configure a library.
21:45 dalek parrot: r42025 | darbelo++ | trunk (9 files):
21:45 dalek parrot: Remove unused file src/gc/res_lea.c and cleanup mentions in the documentation.
21:45 dalek parrot: review: https://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/42025/
21:45 japhb Austin, I did not mean "people can't remember names".  I should have been more clear.  I meant "people can remember more things, more quickly, when the name tells you something about the concept, as opposed to when the name is arbitrary."
21:45 bacek japhb: Levenshtein. Or my brainz is totally faded and I forgot first year CS stuff...
21:45 darbelo Like, how we all know how Ohm such a resistive dude that they named the unit after him.
21:45 darbelo ;)
21:46 Austin bacek: Where and when did you go to school, that this is first-year stuff? Most grads now-a-days can barely spell recursion after 4 years.
21:46 pmichaud_ and Volt was known for his transportation abilities?  ;-)
21:46 nopaste "bacek" at 114.73.173.198 pasted "Test summary with CallSignatureReturns" (12 lines) at http://nopaste.snit.ch/18420
21:47 bacek Austin: may it was second year. Kazan State University in Soviet Russia :)
21:47 darbelo Ouch, packfiles.
21:47 bacek if someone want to polish my patch - feel free to commit. I have to go to $dayjob.
21:47 japhb bacek: Of course you are correct.  about which is which.  I'm saying "How hard was it to remember which is which, and would it have been easier if they were referred to as 'substitution distance' and 'edit distance'?"
21:48 japhb pmichaud_, Volt and Ohm are single nouns.  I am referring to adjectives in part of a noun phrase.
21:48 bacek japhb: may be. But Levenshtein was Soviet scientist, so it's not problem for me to remember his name :)
21:48 japhb LOL
21:48 japhb OK, I can't argue that logic.
21:49 nopaste "Austin" at 98.235.55.43 pasted "Plumage dies on 'configure kakapo'" (23 lines) at http://nopaste.snit.ch/18421
21:50 darbelo kakapo?
21:50 Austin a library.
21:50 purl i think a library is Crypt::OpenSSL::CA
21:50 japhb I just remember junior year math being assaulted with a whole bunch of metrics and spaces and such named after various people and going "Ack!  Your Hilbert is eating my Reimann!"
21:50 Austin Kind of like glue.pir, except somewhat larger.
21:50 bacek packfile tests are failing because there is no annotation segment by default anymore.
21:50 NotFound "We think you have the Stranessfoun disease" "Is bad, doctor" "We still don't know, Mr. Stranessfoun"
21:50 Austin NotFound: :)
21:50 japhb :-)
21:51 pmichaud_ how do you feel about mythical names, then?
21:51 japhb pmichaud_, try me
21:51 pmichaud_ "Apollo"  "Gemini"  "Mercury"
21:51 pmichaud_ (lunar program missions)
21:52 japhb Sure.  Which was first, Gemini or Mercury?  How do you know that?
21:52 patspam joined #parrot
21:52 japhb What differentiated the two mission series?
21:52 pmichaud_ Mercury were the first attempts to get off the planet
21:52 pmichaud_ Gemini referred to two-man missions
21:52 pmichaud_ Apollo were the missions to reach the moon
21:52 Austin And Apollo were missions to the sun!
21:53 ttbot Parrot trunk/ r42025 MSWin32-x86-multi-thread make error http://tt.ro.vutbr.cz/file/cmdout/119075.txt ( http://tt.ro.vutbr.cz//buil​dstatus/pr-Parrot/rp-trunk/ )
21:53 japhb AH!  Now that actually has meaning.  And you remembered Gemini, I assume, because of the twin information
21:53 japhb Austin, nice
21:53 pmichaud_ A lot of the names have meaning that way, though.
21:53 Austin And lin 4850 is a .const Sub declaration.
21:53 Austin *line
21:53 darbelo japhb: Like plumage. "The part of the parrot you actually look at."
21:53 Austin You guys need to strip annotations, I think.
21:53 pmichaud_ I've noticed that Parrot tends to do a lot of error reporting at sub declaration lines
21:54 japhb pmichaud_, but Austin really does have a point about Apollo
21:54 japhb darbelo, huh?
21:54 darbelo Hidden meaning in names. You re guilti of it.
21:54 pmichaud_ perhaps Apollo (missions) were meant to go to the sun but they missed.  :-)
21:55 pmichaud_ maybe they should've gone to the sun at night instead :)
21:55 darbelo s/guilti/guilty/
21:55 japhb darbelo, oh heh.  That was not my intent.  But again, Plumage is not an adjective describing a noun.  (Nor for that matter are the names of the space missions, but I was willing to overlook that  :-)
21:56 japhb Anyway ... back to actually solving someone's problem.
21:57 darbelo Austin: can we get a look at the metadata file?
21:57 Austin Sure.
21:57 japhb Gar.  The problem is that the annotations from the NQP compile to PIR are replaced with the ones from the PIR compile to PBC.  That ... bites.
21:57 Austin http://gitorious.org/kakapo/kakapo​/blobs/master/plumage/kakapo.json
21:58 pmichaud_ HLLCompiler (in nqp-rx) will have better backtrace reporting (like Rakudo does)
21:59 Austin The config file parses okay, and running 'plumage configure kakapo' causes it to do a git pull and report up-to-date before it whorfs.
21:59 joeri left #parrot
21:59 japhb Austin, you want 'perl5_configure', not 'perl_configure'
21:59 japhb But the error message is LTA
22:00 Austin :)
22:00 japhb pmichaud_, oh thank you.  Yet Another Reason to jump to nqp-rx as soon as it's ready
22:00 Austin That worked. japhb++ for hella fast.
22:00 bacek hooray, I fixed extend_18
22:00 cotto_work lta?
22:01 cotto_work less than awesome?
22:01 pmichaud_ I'm aiming to have it ready nlt Nov 10
22:01 Austin adequate
22:01 darbelo pmichaud++
22:01 pmichaud_ I'm thinking that nqp-rx release cycle will be second tuesday of each month (1 week before parrot)
22:01 darbelo pmichaud++
22:01 Austin (That 'adequate' was to cotto_work, not pmichaud)
22:01 japhb cotto_work, precisely.  Noticed it in #perl6, think it fits well.  Especially with chromatic's
22:02 Austin pmichaud: Is that one week before, or three weeks after?
22:02 japhb '1. Don't break the build.  2. Increase the awesome.'  rules
22:02 NotFound japhb: pir lines are not reported by hll annotations, they are handled other way
22:02 japhb NotFound, ack.  Twice today with the Mental Model Fail.
22:03 pmichaud_ Austin: intended to be one week before, mainly
22:03 japhb Sadly, my mental models usually include 'this was not implemented as a hack'
22:03 nopaste "bacek" at 114.73.173.198 pasted "Final patch for CallSignatureReturns." (791 lines) at http://nopaste.snit.ch/18422
22:03 pmichaud_ that way parrot can potentially include nqp_rx in its bundles
22:03 Austin Ahh. I though you were allowing time to pay the upgrade tax.
22:04 Whiteknight pmichaud_: I'm still wondering why nqp-rx wouldn't just be merged into Parrot trunk
22:04 bacek Whiteknight: "deprecation policy"
22:04 Whiteknight it seems like that's the most "natural" place for it
22:04 japhb Whiteknight, IIRC, it's the deprecation policy.
22:04 pmichaud_ deprecation policy is one reason
22:04 japhb DP == scares people
22:04 NotFound A problem is that there is no way to annotate the sub declaration, so for example bad number of params report can't show the hll line number.
22:04 pmichaud_ another is that I expect nqp-rx to potentially target other backends someday
22:05 darbelo Austin: parrot HEAD can track nqp-rx HEAD, for almost no tax.
22:05 japhb NotFound, AH!  I always wondered why that error was so "barren"
22:05 cotto_work pmichaud_, like jvm?
22:05 Whiteknight I worry that the deprecation policy seems to cause more harm then good
22:05 pmichaud_ cotto_work: yes, or clr
22:05 moritz or perl 5 ;-)
22:05 pmichaud_ or p5
22:05 japhb Whiteknight, *cough* *cough*
22:05 cotto_work or c even
22:05 bacek chromatic, Whiteknight, cotto_work http://nopaste.snit.ch/18422 All tests apart from packfiles passed. Feel free to commit in trunk
22:05 pmichaud_ anyway, Parrot needs to come to terms with being able to bundle external modules, and nqp-rx is a natural place to start
22:06 japhb Well, that and plumage.
22:06 japhb Since according to last #ps, parrot will ship a snapshot of PIR-compiled plumage.
22:06 Whiteknight pmichaud_: so long as HLL compilers can get to it and make use of it without jumping through huge hurdles, I wont worry about it
22:06 pmichaud_ Whiteknight: I think it'll be easy to do, yes.
22:07 pmichaud_ and I'm somewhat expecting parrot to ship a snapshot of PIR-compiled nqp
22:07 pmichaud_ thus the "one week before parrot release" timing
22:07 pmichaud_ anyway, separating projects and modules offers much more degrees of freedom
22:07 Whiteknight okay
22:08 NotFound We can even ship pir-compiled HLL written tests
22:09 NotFound A lot of tests will be easier to write in a HLL
22:10 moritz if you are sure the HLL is implemented correctly, that works
22:10 darbelo Yes, but you are restricted to languages with a small-ish runtime.
22:11 NotFound That's one of the reason why Winxed has 0 runtime ;)
22:11 dalek parrot: r42026 | chromatic++ | trunk/src/string/api.c:
22:11 dalek parrot: [string] Worked around C++-foiling constness-losing assignment in
22:11 dalek parrot: Parrot_str_unescape(), visible in TT #1110 (Michael Hind).
22:11 dalek parrot: review: https://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/42026/
22:12 darbelo Also "good for testing" ne "Good for debugging"
22:12 darbelo Ask coke about it some day :)
22:13 darbelo He can segfault parrot in 2 lines of TCL, and we still have no way to fix it.
22:13 NotFound darbelo: that's one of the reasons why Winxed does not use HLL map X-)
22:16 darbelo NotFound: What's teh reason winxed doesn't have a Configure stage?
22:16 darbelo :)
22:16 dalek TT #965 closed by coke++: segfault in Parrot_convert_arg
22:16 NotFound darbelo: lazyness
22:16 purl lazyness is, like, not appreciated here. or http://weeshcomic.com/archive.php?strip=2009-04-20
22:16 darbelo NotFound: Pick an implementation language and I'll contribute one.
22:17 chromatic mikehh, r42046 may help you.
22:18 ttbot Parrot trunk/ r42026 MSWin32-x86-multi-thread make error http://tt.ro.vutbr.cz/file/cmdout/119118.txt ( http://tt.ro.vutbr.cz//buil​dstatus/pr-Parrot/rp-trunk/ )
22:19 NotFound darbelo: I'm not sure I want to depend on some external tool... maybe autoconf will be appropiate
22:19 Austin I think there needs to be a "plumage remove" option.
22:19 Whiteknight I think I'll try to get :call_sig implemented tonight
22:20 Austin I've got it jammed already - a git merge required - and there's no way out without going into .parrot by hand.
22:20 chromatic Didn't you promise to write tests for me first, Whiteknight?
22:20 Coke chromatic: I tried a ulimit -s 1 (in kb) and saw no difference in failure mode.
22:20 chromatic The difference should be that the backtrace should be much shorter.
22:21 chromatic It'll still fail the same way (running out of stack space), but it'll be easier to see how it started that loop.
22:21 chromatic The end of the loop isn't significant for debugging purposes.
22:22 darbelo NotFound: Hm, you are probably right. Even if I hate autoconf.
22:23 Austin W00t. All the way to make install.
22:23 NotFound darbelo: anyway is not an urgence ATM. Even if someone wants to use it on a platform not supported by the compiler, the generated pir can be used.
22:25 darbelo NotFound: Yeah, but I'm lazy enough that removing -Wextra from the makfile seemed like work.
22:26 darbelo Austin: have you added kakapo to the ParrotModules wiki page?
22:26 Austin Nope.
22:26 darbelo Want me to?
22:27 Coke chromatic: the backtrace was still several thousand lines.
22:27 NotFound Mmm... Maybe a fisrt step to bootstrap can be used. Write a simple Configure stage with self, and store the pir generated by it.
22:27 Whiteknight chromatic: did you assign me that ticket?
22:27 Whiteknight (and I don't make promises)
22:27 darbelo PASSED 33 tests in 10 files
22:28 darbelo NotFound: That's for OpenBSD -current i386
22:28 NotFound darbelo: good :)
22:28 NotFound I've tested only on linux.
22:29 darbelo After the mentined -Wextra removal. OpenBSD ships a 6 year old gcc as it's system compiler.
22:29 chromatic I didn't assign it.
22:29 Whiteknight well I certainly don't remember the TT #
22:30 darbelo Whiteknight: irclogs ;)
22:30 japhb bak, backlogging
22:30 chromatic TT #800
22:30 NotFound darbelo: I initially planned to write in C++ 0x, but discarded the idea because few system support that
22:31 cotto_work NotFound, do any systems support that?
22:31 NotFound So instead of using smart pointers I just leak lots of memory
22:31 Whiteknight darbelo: so not only do I need to fix the ticket, but I also need to find it myself?
22:31 NotFound cotto_work: gcc 4.4, I think
22:33 darbelo Hm. Count me out then. The most recent gcc in ports is 4.2.4
22:33 japhb Austin, 'plumage remove' is (already) in the TODO.  :-)
22:34 cotto_work darbelo, he said he's *not* using C++ 0x
22:34 NotFound Anyway, the infinite memory model is good enough as a start
22:34 darbelo cotto_work: I know, I'm his first tester ;)
22:34 darbelo cotto_work: I was refering to c++0x
22:35 darbelo Which is going to need a new name in afew monts :)
22:37 kid51 joined #parrot
22:43 dalek parrot-plumage: 374ab5f | austin++ | :
22:43 dalek parrot-plumage: Added metadata/kakapo.json describing kakapo library.
22:43 dalek parrot-plumage: review: http://gitorious.org/~austin/parrot-​plumage/kakapo-metadata/commit/374ab​5f8a1ab91e3d4234b9530f949c3a0c05d70
22:44 dukeleto mikehh: what did I mess up?
22:44 chromatic C++0x has another five years to release.
22:44 nopaste joined #parrot
22:44 dukeleto japhb: no time to backlog when I am not highlighted
22:44 dukeleto msg me plz
22:44 me messages
22:45 NotFound chromatic: yes, but there is consensus about several usable things
22:46 darbelo Austin: You got a plumage bit? congratulations!
22:46 Austin I got a whaT?
22:46 japhb dukeleto, what did I forget to highlight you about?
22:46 * japhb confused
22:46 purl You won't be after this episode of Soap!
22:46 darbelo plumage commit bit?
22:46 Austin Not me. No CLA.
22:47 dukeleto <@japhb> darbelo, dukeleto, Tene?  Any ideas on my quandry above?
22:47 dalek tracwiki: v4 | darbelo++ | Modules
22:47 dalek tracwiki: Add Austin's kakapo library.
22:47 dalek tracwiki: https://trac.parrot.org/parrot/wiki​/Modules?version=4&amp;action=diff
22:47 Whiteknight that reminds me, I'm supposed to fill out an updated CLA
22:47 darbelo Hm, last plumage commit said ' Austin++ ' on top.
22:47 japhb dukeleto, ah.  Um.  That's why I highlighted you.  ;-)
22:47 Austin It was a clone, probably.
22:48 Limbic_Region joined #parrot
22:48 * darbelo slaps his forehead.
22:48 darbelo Right, on git committer != author.
22:49 Austin DVCS, baby. Nothing is what you think it is.
22:50 chromatic I meant only for the version number.  C++0xA is 2010....
22:50 Austin One of you guys should create a plumage 'team' on gitorious.
22:50 Austin plumage-birds, or some such.
22:50 Austin (Although -birds might not fly in the uk)
22:51 darbelo teap;)
22:51 darbelo eh. ;)
22:51 Austin plumage-psittacines ?
22:51 darbelo plumage-team ?
22:51 Austin lame
22:52 Austin If you can't spell it, you can't join.
22:52 Austin What a slogan!
22:52 purl it has been said that a slogan is annoying
22:52 Austin purl, parrot?
22:52 purl well, parrot is our teacher, our mother, our secret lover or the reason Dan started or the reason Dan left or pretty onionish:) or http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=​4vuW6tQ0218&amp;feature=related or regular releases and carefully following the deprecation policy
22:53 cotto_work s/following/trying to work around/
22:57 darbelo left #parrot
23:01 dalek parrot: r42027 | jkeenan++ | trunk/config/auto/gc.pm:
23:01 dalek parrot: Correct spelling error in documentation.
23:01 dalek parrot: review: https://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/42027/
23:09 ttbot Parrot trunk/ r42027 MSWin32-x86-multi-thread make error http://tt.ro.vutbr.cz/file/cmdout/119171.txt ( http://tt.ro.vutbr.cz//buil​dstatus/pr-Parrot/rp-trunk/ )
23:10 theory joined #parrot
23:15 japhb Austin, the error message for mistyped metadata instructions types should now be SMA (Significantly More Awesome)
23:15 Austin Sweet. I hope to never see it, of course. :)
23:15 japhb ... but still not perfect.  Due to control flow issues, you will see the error twice in some cases.
23:15 japhb :-)
23:16 Austin That's fine.
23:16 Austin I hope to never see it twice, also.
23:16 japhb heh
23:16 plobsing joined #parrot
23:16 dalek parrot-plumage: 393057e | japhb++ | :
23:16 dalek parrot-plumage: [plumage] Add additional stage to metadata_valid and refactor; refactor ...
23:16 dalek parrot-plumage: review: http://gitorious.org/parrot-plumage/parrot-plumag​e/commit/393057e41a80a783349e197b7a35d01165cfa243
23:17 Zak joined #parrot
23:18 japhb pmichaud_, what are you planning vis-a-vis exceptions and exception handling in nqp-rx?
23:18 Austin_Hastings joined #parrot
23:19 japhb Plumage control flow would be a lot less of a mess if I had proper exceptions.
23:19 plobsing hi #parrot
23:19 cotto_work hi plobsing
23:19 Austin_Hastings :)
23:20 Austin_Hastings I thought you had implemented throw and try ?
23:20 japhb Or rather, syntax for same, and support for some way to determine different groups of exceptions without checking the string value of error messages.
23:20 Austin_Hastings Hello, plobsing
23:20 Austin_Hastings Ah.
23:20 Austin_Hastings You need a multisub.
23:20 Austin_Hastings :)
23:21 Austin_Hastings And a tree of exception types, all alike.
23:21 japhb Austin_Hastings, yeah, I do have die and try, but they are not real syntax, and thus ... kinda suck.  In particular, without even closures, try is a humongous hack.
23:21 treed Watch out for those catch-grues.
23:21 Austin_Hastings Hmm. Where's my nick?
23:22 Austin_Hastings joined #parrot
23:22 japhb I wonder how many guys whose real name is 'Nick' use that for their IRC nick.
23:22 Austin_Hastings Meh.
23:22 cotto_work Austin_Hastings, do you need your duplicate kicked?
23:23 Austin_Hastings If possible, yes.
23:23 Austin_Hastings But maybe not.
23:23 Austin Ahh.
23:23 cotto_work I guess not.
23:23 Austin So much less formal.
23:24 * Whiteknight needs to find a new editor
23:24 Whiteknight Kate is so buggy that it's unusable
23:24 * particle suggests chromatic
23:24 Austin notepad++ on windows.
23:24 * dukeleto suggests particle
23:24 Austin Scite on Linux.
23:25 japhb Whiteknight, really?  I'm kinda surprised.  I (used to) hear good things about Kate.
23:25 Whiteknight I use notepad++ on windows. That's not a question
23:25 Austin Ed! Ed is the standard!
23:25 japhb Mmm, edlin ....
23:25 Whiteknight japhb: I heard good things too, that's why I switched
23:25 chromatic My only qualm with Vim is that sometimes when I hit backspace in insert mode, it reindents the current line which is exactly what I don't want it to do, and I don't know why.
23:25 Whiteknight I refuse to use vim or emacs
23:25 Whiteknight tried them, hate them, don't want to talk about them
23:25 dukeleto Whiteknight: HERESY!
23:26 cotto_work I find it quite amusing picturing Whiteknight doing all his typing via chromatic.
23:26 cotto_work s/typing/editing/
23:26 Whiteknight :call_sig is turning out to be trickier then I thought
23:26 Austin Here's a question: is "null" an instance of type X ?
23:26 dukeleto Whiteknight: i use 'ed' religiously
23:26 japhb One of my previous bosses required his entire staff to switch to emacs.  I never switched away, but never became expert at it either.  Kinda waiting for Padre to become really excellent for all the languages I care about.
23:27 Whiteknight japhb: if Padre supported C and had better syntax highlighting, I would switch today
23:27 Whiteknight I'm very picky about my highlighting. It's a personality flaw
23:27 Austin Does padre run under linux, too?
23:27 dukeleto Whiteknight: go say that in #padre and it might happen
23:28 mikehh Whiteknight: Kate is my main editor - I don't seem to have many problems with it
23:28 Whiteknight mikehh: maybe it's just my installation, or my particular set of features
23:28 dukeleto Whiteknight: highlighting is extremely important, i agree
23:28 japhb Whiteknight, Yeah, I need C, C++, JavaScript, HTML, and Perl 5 done better than emacs to even consider it.
23:28 chromatic padre runs pretty well under Linux.
23:28 Whiteknight but it spits out error messages all the time to my console, there are graphical glitches, sometimes the cursor turns the same color as the background and I can't see it, etc
23:30 Whiteknight Austin: You say scite?
23:30 japhb dukeleto, darbelo, Tene: Any of you have unmerged branches that edit plumage.nqp?  I'm about to move a lot of code around.
23:31 mikehh Kate - version 3.3.2 using KDE 4.3.2
23:31 Tene No.
23:31 japhb Tene: thanks
23:31 Austin whiteknight: It's what I use on linux, but there's a reason I stick with windows. :$
23:31 Tene japhb: that is, i don't; dunno about th eothers.
23:31 japhb Tene, understood.
23:31 Whiteknight I like scintilla, mostly
23:31 Tene I tried Kate a few times; couldn't stand it.
23:32 Tene Same with gedit, a few other graphic editors...
23:32 Whiteknight I was using medit, which was simplistic but solid
23:33 Whiteknight I switched to Kate because I wanted a few more features, but then I got a bunch of bugs, so I want to switch again
23:33 Austin Japhb: There's a merge request for you. It has nothing to do with code. :)
23:33 mikehh I generally prefer the KDE stuff to Gnome
23:33 japhb Austin, ah, lemme check
23:33 Whiteknight http://wknight8111.blogspot.​com/2009/10/text-edior.html
23:33 Whiteknight (I wrote a blog post about my editor search)
23:33 Austin *ediTor
23:34 Whiteknight damnit. my callsig patch is failing some tests
23:35 mikehh When I used M$ stuff my favorite editor was Crimson Editor - haven't used M$ Windows for a couple of years now
23:38 dalek parrot-plumage: 0e2470b | japhb++ | :
23:38 dalek parrot-plumage: Merge commit 'refs/merge-requests/1891' of git://gitorious.org/parrot-pl...
23:38 dalek parrot-plumage: review: http://gitorious.org/parrot-plumage/parrot-plumag​e/commit/0e2470beeaf1d2027401ce545c900b943506f6f1
23:39 Austin Is there a single non-string way to store type identifiers?
23:40 Austin IOW: If an object is an Object, then there is a Class PMC that can be looked up. But for RPA and Integer, it's a PMC type. What's the unification of those?
23:40 japhb OK, assuming I didn't completely mess that up, your merge request has been merged, Austin.  Thanks!
23:44 Tene Whiteknight: I take it you're completely uninterested in comments on your blog post about how great vim is? ;)
23:45 davidfetter joined #parrot
23:51 darbelo joined #parrot
23:55 japhb Is there a safe cross-platform make syntax for extension rules ("turn any .pir file into a .pbc by doing this")?
23:55 darbelo No
23:56 darbelo There is not a safe cross-platform make syntax for anything.
23:56 japhb damn it
23:56 Austin You might try basic suffix rules.
23:56 Austin .c.o and .SUFFIXES
23:56 Austin That's what I'm using.
23:57 Austin (And on that subject, you can look in kakapo/build/Makefile.in)
23:57 darbelo Some makes allow it. GNU make and BSD make, which gets everyone and me, in that order. But might not be handled correctly by other makes.
23:58 Austin My lowest-common denominators are HPUX make and MSFT nmake, and they both take it, I think.
23:58 japhb Needs to run on any make that Parrot cares about.
23:58 Austin (I'm not sure about .suffixes on HPUX, but it should be ignored if it doesn't work.)
23:58 japhb GNU make, BSD make, and nmake are different enough that signs are good ....
23:58 Austin What makes does Parrot care about?
23:59 japhb And HP-UX is from a different planet, so that's another plus
23:59 Austin Hell, dukeleto almost pulled the trigger on 1.7 with failing Windows tests the other night.
23:59 japhb Austin, I don't actually know for sure.
23:59 Austin Yeah.
23:59 darbelo Austin: That was an accident ;)
23:59 Austin Everybody makes all this noise about platforms, but I really don't think anyone is going to port Parrot to the playstation anytime soon. (And if they do, there's already linux there.. :)

| Channels | #parrot index | Today | | Search | Google Search | Plain-Text | summary

Parrot | source cross referenced