Camelia, the Perl 6 bug

IRC log for #parrot, 2009-10-25

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:03 Whiteknight dukeleto: once we get this dynpmc building, we can (1) start writing a test suite for parrot-linear-algebra, and (2) use that matrix type in Matrixy instead of nested RPAs
00:04 Whiteknight so it is exciting
00:05 Austin whiteknight: you know about tools/build/dynopslib.pl, right?
00:05 Austin *slib=libs
00:05 dukeleto Whiteknight: i am all over the test suite
00:06 dukeleto Whiteknight: which language do we want the test suite to be written in?
00:07 Whiteknight dukeleto: doesn't much matter to me. Whichever is easiest
00:08 Whiteknight Configure is written in NQP, so that's perfectly acceptable
00:09 Whiteknight maybe PIR would be good just because we would have all the PIR test harness goodness
00:11 dukeleto Whiteknight: there is no test harness written in PIR, that I know of. I think the test harness will be NQP and the tests can be in either NQP/PIR
00:12 Whiteknight oh, I meant Test::More was written in PIR
00:12 Whiteknight but yeah, whatever you want. Just so long as it's part of the Parrot repo
00:18 dukeleto who do I bug when dalek doesn't pick up a language?
00:18 dukeleto dalek?
00:18 purl it has been said that dalek is #parrot's spammy little rss bot or (see: dalek plugins)
00:18 dukeleto dalek plugins?
00:18 purl i guess dalek plugins is http://github.com/Infinoid​/dalek-plugins/tree/master
00:19 dukeleto msg Infinoid i've added pl/parrot to the languages wiki page, can you see why dalek is not talking about it?
00:19 purl Message for infinoid stored.
00:26 Whiteknight pl/parrot?
00:26 purl somebody said pl/parrot was a really cool project irc://irc.freenode.net/plparrot
00:28 Whiteknight okay, that's not really a lot of information
00:35 Whiteknight Oh, a Postgres interface
00:35 * Whiteknight was secretly hoping it was a compiler for PL/1
00:36 davidfetter sorry, Whiteknight
00:36 davidfetter <-- instigator of this project
00:37 Whiteknight davidfetter++
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00:46 Whiteknight hello chromatic
00:51 chromatic hola pato
00:53 chromatic I think we should consider the linked-list GC optimization in the next couple of months.
00:53 chromatic What do we need to do around the API to make that possible or easier?
00:58 Austin What is the right multi signature for a *method* taking a string first argument? Is it multi(['String']) or multi(_, ['String']) to allow for self?
01:00 Austin And given that I'm pretty sure it's the second one, why does that method not get called when I pass two strings - instead, the multi(_) variant is called.
01:03 Whiteknight chromatic: that's a good question. I think the encapsulation efforts have gone a long way towards improving things
01:04 Whiteknight and some of the other cleanups (removing the high priority nonsense, for instance)
01:04 Whiteknight Austin: no idea
01:05 Whiteknight chromatic: there are lots of optimizations that we can make to the current GC, although in the long run a better algorithm would still be best
01:05 Whiteknight we could do some very aggressive loop-unrolling in the sweep code, for instance
01:06 dukeleto Whiteknight: http://github.com/leto/plparrot
01:07 * dukeleto learned  SO much at the dynamic lang interop session today
01:07 Whiteknight dukeleto: yeah, saw that already
01:07 chromatic I don't think we have to sweep much in the linked-list system.
01:07 Whiteknight dynamic lang interop session?
01:08 dukeleto we talked a lot about JIT with an llvm dev, and he gave me pointers for parrot
01:08 Whiteknight chromatic: I might need some time to get the algorithm back into my head
01:08 chromatic It's pretty simple.
01:08 Whiteknight I have a patchset laying around here somewhere
01:09 chromatic If only we had custom hardware.
01:09 dukeleto from what I learned today, i think supporting libjit and llvm is a bad idea. we should concentrate on getting *one* to work
01:09 dukeleto brb
01:11 Whiteknight dukeleto: why do you say that? We wouldn't support both at the same time, would be selected at configure time one or the other
01:12 dukeleto Whiteknight: that doubles the dev time needed, at least.
01:12 Whiteknight dukeleto: not necessarily
01:13 Whiteknight not all development man-hours are created equal, and in a volunteer project some people aren't going to work on some projects
01:13 dukeleto Whiteknight: and by *one* I mean llvm. no one had anything good to say about libjit, especially the community
01:13 chromatic I think most of the work is getting the rest of Parrot to a place where being able to JIT with any system is possible.
01:13 plobsing yup.
01:13 dukeleto just reporting what I heard
01:13 dukeleto i have lots of notes
01:14 Whiteknight Well, that's a slightly different story. Allison already said that LLVM is our first target
01:14 plobsing I looked at nci.pmc, it is pretty broken ATM
01:14 Whiteknight it's worth noting that the libJIT people and community don't have a lot of nice things to say about LLVM
01:14 Whiteknight it's all marketing
01:15 Whiteknight Basic strategy: Implement one. Create a good extensible framework, allow people to add other options as they choose
01:15 Whiteknight we will end up with libJIT back-ends, GNU Lightning backends, etc.
01:17 chromatic Broken how, plobsing?
01:18 plobsing there are 2 places where NCI sigs get converted to PCC sigs
01:18 plobsing nativecall.pl and nci.pmc
01:18 plobsing nci.pmc isn't up to date with pcc_reapply
01:19 plobsing I am currently working on a fix
01:19 Whiteknight does nci.pm ever get used?
01:19 Whiteknight plobsing++
01:19 plobsing yes. it's what wraps the NCI frames
01:19 plobsing The fix is pretty easy, but I want to add a test so that the 2 places don't become de-synced again
01:20 plobsing that is proving more difficult
01:20 Whiteknight so then where is nativecall.pl used?
01:21 plobsing when build-frames = 0
01:21 chromatic To generate src/nci.c?
01:21 plobsing I figure its the source of the old JIT's pcc problems
01:21 plobsing it will cause *any* JIT system to have weird hard to track bugs
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01:25 plobsing Incidentally, is there a reason we load up all the static NCI callers when we don't use the frame builder?
01:25 plobsing Why aren't we using a trie?
01:26 Whiteknight plobsing: that would require some "thought" and "planning"
01:26 Whiteknight it is a very interesting idea though
01:26 plobsing I'll add that to the things I intend to fix.
01:27 Whiteknight plobsing++ # Again
01:30 chromatic It was never worth it to add a trie, yet.
01:31 plobsing wasn't the upfront cost of loading all those subs the main argument against ripping out the old JIT?
01:31 Whiteknight plobsing: sort of, but I don't think it was ever a good argument
01:31 Whiteknight we need a real JIT, and fixing this hackjob doesn't get us to that goal
01:33 plobsing In any case, I can probably handle that side of the fixups to support jit systems. What I can't do and realize will become a problem is the config system.
01:34 dukeleto every project at the session said that suppporting multiple JIT backends was a  Really Bad Idea. just sayin'
01:34 Whiteknight dukeleto: like I said, we'll start with one and try to leave the door open for others
01:34 Whiteknight no harm in trying
01:34 plobsing Right now, it supports a binary JIT or no JIT decision. If we have multiple, we'll have to make things more complicated, and I don't know the best way to do that.
01:35 plobsing dukeleto: for what its worth, I would have used LLVM, but I hate C++.
01:35 dukeleto some projects are on their 5th "from the ground up" rewrite of their JIT system
01:36 dukeleto plobsing: we have a common enemy.
01:38 dukeleto also, are we planning on trying to run JIT in a background process? that was mentioned a bunch, since it utilizes multicore systems very well
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01:39 * dukeleto is going to eat, be back much later
01:40 chromatic I don't think we have a plan that concrete yet.
01:40 Whiteknight plobsing: LLVM has C bindings
01:41 plobsing hmmm... must have missed it.
01:41 purl i guess must have missed it. is the feature on cpan yet?
01:42 Whiteknight plobsing: I don't remember who told me about them. Maybe ash_. they aren't well advertised
01:43 chromatic Chris Lattner told me that we could ask for anything not yet exposed to C and they'll add them for us.
01:43 Whiteknight but they do exist. Seen them with my own eyes
01:43 Whiteknight chromatic: that's handy!
01:44 chromatic "LLVM has C bindings for a lot of the APIs, if you need new ones we're
01:44 chromatic happy to add them.  See llvm/include/llvm-c/*"
01:44 Whiteknight nothing I love better then an open-ended offer to develop things
01:44 chromatic I helped him move a couch, years ago.  He owes me.
01:44 Austin Anyone know where a function or macro named "pmc_type()" is defined? (called from imcc)
01:45 chromatic src/pmc.c ?
01:45 Austin Yep. Found it. Thanks.
01:47 Whiteknight Austin: include/parrot/pmc.h:124
01:47 plobsing any idea why nci.pmc has a multi_sig attribute when it doesn't appear to get set anywhere?
01:47 chromatic make tags-vi
01:47 chromatic plobsing, it may have been removed.
01:49 plobsing chromatic: do you mean I can remove it?
01:49 * Whiteknight has to log off now. Goodnight
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01:52 Austin chromatic: I've got some weird :multi behavior, and I'm not sure if it's a bug, or what. Do you know what :multi(_) compiles down to, mmd_distance-wise?
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01:52 nopaste "Austin" at 98.235.55.43 pasted ":multi weirdness" (20 lines) at http://nopaste.snit.ch/18445
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02:00 Coke Austin: I thought it was :multi(String)
02:00 Coke not 'String'
02:00 Austin Coke: I had ['String'], then String, then 'String'. It doesn't seem to matter.
02:02 chromatic Austin, I don't remember.
02:02 chromatic plobsing, if everything passes tests without it, cut away.
02:02 Austin I can't see any special processing, in which case it seems like it would compile down to 'undef'.
02:03 chromatic I think it's "Any", but I don't remember how that factors into the distance formula.
02:03 Austin I'm trying to understand why multi(_) is a better match than multi(String) for 'string'
02:03 chromatic It shouldn't be.
02:04 Austin see my nopaste above.
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02:26 Andy joined #parrot
02:35 dalek TT #1144 created by Austin_Hastings++: MMD incorrectly matches _ instead of String
02:42 janus joined #parrot
02:48 Coke Austin: I believe you want (string)
02:49 Coke a String prefers a string, but a string doesn't prefer a String, apparently.
02:49 Austin :)
02:49 Coke but, anyway, a :multi(string) will dwym, more.
02:52 Austin more?
02:52 purl i think more is more is less. or Masters of Reverse Engineering.  They cracked CSS :) or see "again" or see "yet again" or legendary outlining software put out 15 years ago by Symantec who has since lost the source code. or software that makes people still run Mac OS 8 just so they can use it
02:52 Austin again?
02:52 purl Nothin' up my sleeve.  Presto!
02:52 Austin yet again?
02:52 purl somebody said yet again was full too
02:52 Coke more, as opposed to perfectly.
02:52 Austin Ah.
02:53 Austin Actually, I just tried that. Thanks. It doesn't match the cases where the string is in a pmc. But since I'm mechanically generating crap, it's no skin off my nose to emit _string and _String versions.
02:54 Austin It's still a bug, though, AFAICT. The type promotion variant should always be closer than "any old thing".
02:58 Coke agreed it's a bug.
03:01 Austin Coke++: Thanks for thinking of that lower-case notion. I never would have thought about it.
03:10 Coke those are the primitive types.
03:10 Coke and I just grepped through my code for :multi to see what I did. =-)
03:11 Austin :)
03:11 Coke should this require a bigint? (more)
03:11 Coke -9223372036854775807
03:11 purl -9223372036854775807
03:11 Austin (unsigned)-1
03:12 Austin purl, 1 << 32
03:12 purl Austin: excuse me?
03:12 Austin tch
03:12 Coke I believe that's 1<<63
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03:13 Austin Is it?
03:13 purl it's it!
03:13 Austin purl, 4 * (1024 **3)
03:13 purl 4294967296
03:14 Austin purl, (2**4) * (1024 ** 6)
03:14 purl 1.84467440737096e+19
03:14 Austin Maybe purl needs Bigints?
03:14 dalek partcl: 4d309db | coke++ | docs/spectest_skips:
03:14 dalek partcl: unable to duplicate this segfault now.
03:14 dalek partcl: review: http://github.com/partcl/partcl/commit/4​d309db2101326fe5ec840ded0a3862f1eeddee1
03:14 dalek partcl: fe44639 | coke++ | docs/spectest-progress.csv:
03:14 dalek partcl: this was an optimized run
03:14 dalek partcl: review: http://github.com/partcl/partcl/commit/f​e44639aee6aa48e8bdc3e9bafacb00a90770159
03:14 dalek partcl: 6ff7de6 | coke++ | docs/spectest- (2 files):
03:14 dalek partcl: Highest # of passing tests, ever.
03:14 dalek partcl: review: http://github.com/partcl/partcl/commit/6​ff7de65049a09e2ff0da2f7c0081836cda54ed9
03:14 Austin purl 15 * (1024 ** 6)
03:14 purl 1.72938225691027e+19
03:15 Austin purl, 3 * (1024 ** 3)
03:15 purl 3221225472
03:15 Austin purl 4 * (1024 **3) + 1
03:15 purl 4294967297
03:15 Austin Hmm.
03:16 Austin purl 4 * (1024 **4) + 1
03:16 purl 4398046511105
03:16 Austin purl 4 * (1024 **5) + 1
03:16 purl 4503599627370497
03:16 Austin purl 4 * (1024 **6) + 1
03:16 purl 4.61168601842739e+18
03:16 Austin purl 1000 * (1024 ** 5) + 1
03:16 purl 1125899906842624001
03:16 Austin purl 1024 * (1024 ** 5) + 1
03:16 purl 1152921504606846977
03:16 Austin purl 2 * (1024 ** 6) + 1
03:16 purl 2.30584300921369e+18
03:16 Austin purl 1 * (1024 ** 6) + 1
03:16 purl 1.15292150460685e+18
03:17 Austin wtf?
03:17 cotto_w0rk joined #parrot
03:17 Austin Hello, cotto.
03:18 plobsing Austin: my perl does that and I'm on x86_64.
03:18 Austin plobsing: Does what? Switch to e+ at 60 bits?
03:19 plobsing yup
03:19 Austin Hmm.
03:19 Austin perl--
03:29 Coke [expr (1<<63)-1] is crashing expr.test because the 1<<63 is generating that number, but then -1 can't deal with it.
03:30 Austin Because it's signed?
03:30 Coke (that's 80% of the way through the test file. so close.)
03:30 Coke Austin: presumbly because it's out of range.
03:30 Coke (of int)
03:31 Coke ah. yah, it is supposed to be positive.
03:31 Coke partcl is returning it as a negative.
03:40 Coke interesting, I do have a bunch of upper case mmd.
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04:02 chromatic I wonder if it's the :slurpy.
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04:16 Coke should that impact mmd?
04:44 jsut joined #parrot
04:46 * Coke thinks he has eliminated one of the :multi's he was using with a vtable.
04:46 Coke yay.
04:50 dalek partcl: 28117f5 | coke++ |  (16 files):
04:50 dalek partcl: elminate toInteger(), replace with get_integer vtable
04:50 dalek partcl: review: http://github.com/partcl/partcl/commit/2​8117f5336620f017610face5bee2c197177d5e1
04:51 Coke that should be a speedup, swapping out a multi call for a vtable call.
04:51 Coke (plus it's more HLL friendly)
05:26 Austin chromatic: It's not the slurpy.
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06:23 cotto Austin, if my work counterpart shows up on a weekend, it's definitely because of a flaky connection. ;)
06:23 Austin I was impressed at your dedication.
06:24 cotto chromatic, do I see correctly that we're slightly faster than before the pcc merge?
06:24 * cotto goes off to test
06:31 cotto After a while, all those 3% improvements start to add up.
06:49 cotto not quite.  It looks like oofib is about 11.88% slower now than before the merge
06:49 Austin Just "about" 11.88%?
06:49 cotto give or take
06:49 cotto ;)
06:49 Austin :)
06:50 cotto (for oofib.  I'm testing fib.pir but it's slower)
06:50 cotto also, iwbn to have a benchmark similar to complete_workflow.t except in pure-pir.
06:51 cotto testing performance by looking at silly programs like oofib doesn't give me a great deal of confidence.
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07:07 cotto fib.pir is 13.98% slower
07:07 cotto That's still *way* better than immediately after the merge.
07:09 chromatic Try with the fast runcore.
07:10 chromatic Also, are you running optimized?
07:10 cotto no
07:11 chromatic That may be why it looks faster for me then.
07:11 cotto I thought fast was the default.
07:12 chromatic I missed a spot in IMCC.
07:12 cotto I guess it's switched.  Is there a reason it's not fast?
07:13 chromatic I was holding off on that patch while there were line numbering problems in annotations.
07:15 plobsing can I remove 'v' as a NCI signature parameter. It was deprecated in 11838 (2.5 years ago), but doesn't show up in DEPRECATED.pod.
07:15 plobsing ?
07:15 chromatic We probably forgot to put it there.
07:15 chromatic I won't tell if you don't.
07:16 plobsing I wasn't sure because we actually have a test that depends on this behaviour
07:17 plobsing That's gone too I suppose.
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07:18 chromatic Looks like 2.144% to go with optimized builds and the fast runcore, cotto.
07:23 dalek parrot: r42086 | mikehh++ | trunk/t/op/annotate-old.t:
07:23 dalek parrot: mark failing test as TODO in fast and cgoto runcores - TT #1135
07:23 dalek parrot: review: https://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/42086/
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07:30 ttbot Parrot trunk/ r42086 MSWin32-x86-multi-thread make error http://tt.ro.vutbr.cz/file/cmdout/122838.txt ( http://tt.ro.vutbr.cz//buil​dstatus/pr-Parrot/rp-trunk/ )
07:32 xenoterracide joined #parrot
07:39 dalek parrot: r42087 | mikehh++ | trunk/t/pmc/eval.t:
07:39 dalek parrot: mark failing test as TODO in testr - TT #1142
07:39 dalek parrot: review: https://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/42087/
07:42 plobsing is it possible to get pmc2c to emit additional things (eg: an enum) into the header file?
07:45 ttbot Parrot trunk/ r42087 MSWin32-x86-multi-thread make error http://tt.ro.vutbr.cz/file/cmdout/122888.txt ( http://tt.ro.vutbr.cz//buil​dstatus/pr-Parrot/rp-trunk/ )
07:45 Austin of course it is. The source code is in tools/build. Good luck. :)
07:47 dukeleto 'ello
07:48 dalek parrot-linear-algebra: f6a7a02 | (Markus Mayr)++ |  (2 files):
07:48 dalek parrot-linear-algebra: Added a CBLAS-based method to add matrices.
07:48 dalek parrot-linear-algebra: This should not be considered as a final implementation of this method, but as
07:48 dalek parrot-linear-algebra: a test for our build system.
07:48 dalek parrot-linear-algebra: Added myself to CREDITS.
07:48 dalek parrot-linear-algebra: review: http://github.com/Whiteknight/parrot-linear-algebr​a/commit/f6a7a026ed61ebeab617ac0156947386785b1dfc
07:48 dalek parrot-linear-algebra: 70a4b03 | (Markus Mayr)++ | examples/add.pir:
07:48 dalek parrot-linear-algebra: Added an example for adding matrices.
07:48 dalek parrot-linear-algebra: review: http://github.com/Whiteknight/parrot-linear-algebr​a/commit/70a4b0368713ae2e3f96c85fe0f50efdfe3a29bc
07:48 Austin Howdy, duke.
07:53 dukeleto Austin: yo
07:54 Austin I saw a bunch of comments earlier about the conference. Is there a blog post coming?
07:54 Austin (Or was that not you?)
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08:15 bacek o hai
08:37 Patterner joined #parrot
08:41 mikehh All tests PASS (pre/post-config, smoke (#29372), fulltest) at r42087 - Ubuntu 9.10 beta (updated) amd64
08:41 mikehh howdy bacek
08:41 bacek mikehh: not so bad. Thinking about breaking parrot in most weird way
08:43 chromatic joined #parrot
08:43 mikehh good - I am working my way through some skipped tests to see if they pass or can be TODOed rather than skipped
08:43 bacek mikehh: it's good. Any luck with stealing autounfidge from rakudo?
08:44 bacek autounfudge
08:44 purl rumour has it autounfudge is currently running, and finds more
08:44 mikehh looking at it
08:44 purl looking at it is not reading it
08:44 mikehh who woke purl up again
09:02 mikehh hey who changed make install/install-dev
09:05 mikehh it doesn't install the binaries properly
09:07 fperrad ping bacek
09:07 purl I can't find bacek in the DNS.
09:11 jsut_ joined #parrot
09:17 dukeleto 'ello
09:18 dukeleto Austin: i am at a conf. i should write a blog post about the dynamic language interoperability session
09:30 mokurai left #parrot
09:39 mikehh msg darbelo: the changes to install/install-dev now fail to install the binaries properly - at least for me (no parrot_config, parrot, etc in bin directory)
09:39 purl Message for darbelo stored.
09:46 dukeleto mikehh: that is no fun
10:37 mikehh dukeleto: trying to adapt rakudo autounfunge - don't know if I am getting there :-}
10:40 mikehh dukeleto: I think it's going to take a while - different philosophies
10:55 allison joined #parrot
11:09 mikehh how do you look up a specific ticket in trac - TT #445 for example- no idea if it is open or closed
11:15 mikehh it looks open - if I unskip the test on x86-64 it passes - in I can pass all tests in t/examples/shootout.t
11:16 mikehh s /- in/- in fact/
11:17 mikehh there still must be an easy way to look up a specific ticket in trac
11:27 mikehh hmmnn - there seems to be at least three different ways tests are skipped in parrot
11:29 Austin mikehh: type #999 in the search bar
11:30 kj joined #parrot
11:35 mikehh Austin: thanks - I tried TT #445 (failed) and 445 - which got it but a lot of other stuff
11:36 Austin # is magic for Trac - it autolinks when you put it in wiki text, triggers the special lookup in search, etc.
11:43 mikehh joined #parrot
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12:20 Whiteknight Good morning #parrot
12:21 kj morning Whiteknight
12:21 Whiteknight hello kj
12:40 Whiteknight parrot_nqp doesn't seem to be working on my system
12:40 Whiteknight bash: /usr/local/bin/parrot_nqp: No such file or directory
12:41 Whiteknight ah, nevermind. install and install-dev were swapped
12:42 mikehh Whiteknight: the install script in makefile doesn't install binaries properly - I already messaged darbelo about it
12:42 Whiteknight mikehh: which project?
12:42 mikehh parrot
12:43 Whiteknight I just did "make install" instead of "make install-dev" and it worked
12:43 mikehh ok - let me try that - there is an install-bin as well
12:46 Whiteknight is there? what does that do?
12:46 mikehh Whiteknight: you are rignt - when I tried it before it didn't seem to work - porobably finger trouble
12:47 Whiteknight I know they've changed the make targets recently
12:47 mikehh make install-dev should do the same as make insdtall - make install-bin should be the same as make install was brefore
12:51 Whiteknight joined #parrot
12:59 mikehh joined #parrot
12:59 mikehh stoopid internmet connection - it has disconnected me at least 4 times today
13:01 mikehh internet
13:01 purl internet is for porn or Serious Business.
13:03 Whiteknight purl msg darbelo parrot-linear-algebra:Configure.nqp has some problems. $(TOOL_DIR) and some other things aren't being set correctly
13:03 purl Message for darbelo stored.
13:04 Whiteknight purl msg darbelo nevermind, I think I've found the problem
13:04 purl Message for darbelo stored.
13:18 dalek parrot-linear-algebra: 2dd9a30 | Whiteknight++ | src/pmc/ (2 files):
13:18 dalek parrot-linear-algebra: rename NumMatrix2D file to nummatrix2d since pmc2c is stupid about caps
13:18 dalek parrot-linear-algebra: review: http://github.com/Whiteknight/parrot-linear-algebr​a/commit/2dd9a30b97d36bd0361405fbb80899520c2b364f
13:18 dalek parrot-linear-algebra: 16ae25d | Whiteknight++ | config/Makefile.in:
13:18 dalek parrot-linear-algebra: Some major changes to the makefile. Mostly builds now, but not completely
13:18 dalek parrot-linear-algebra: review: http://github.com/Whiteknight/parrot-linear-algebr​a/commit/16ae25de98740d0f3ca3bc2a6460eac65a2b84a4
13:18 dalek parrot-linear-algebra: 6e45589 | Whiteknight++ | src/pmc/NumMatrix2D.pmc~:
13:18 dalek parrot-linear-algebra: remove a temp file that kate added to my workingdir
13:18 dalek parrot-linear-algebra: review: http://github.com/Whiteknight/parrot-linear-algebr​a/commit/6e45589eee0f79af775e9733e3cd76e88e90773a
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13:54 dalek parrot: r42088 | allison++ | branches/pcc_reapply:
13:54 dalek parrot: Removing calling conventions refactor branch after merge
13:54 dalek parrot: review: https://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/42088/
14:04 dalek parrot-linear-algebra: fa6912e | Whiteknight++ | config/Makefile.in:
14:04 dalek parrot-linear-algebra: fix some include paths in the makefile
14:04 dalek parrot-linear-algebra: review: http://github.com/Whiteknight/parrot-linear-algebr​a/commit/fa6912e17de015b60e626ceef331e6fd2a557305
14:09 joeri joined #parrot
14:33 dalek parrot-linear-algebra: 253ee99 | (Markus Mayr)++ |  (3 files):
14:33 dalek parrot-linear-algebra: Building and the example are now working (if cblas is available).
14:33 dalek parrot-linear-algebra: review: http://github.com/Whiteknight/parrot-linear-algebr​a/commit/253ee9908f1fe7add6e7ae6fc5ef85eb3d15717c
14:37 s1n_mini joined #parrot
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14:39 s1n_mini particle: ping
14:53 Andy joined #parrot
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15:25 dalek parrot-linear-algebra: dc49f25 | (Markus Mayr)++ | config/Makefile.in:
15:25 dalek parrot-linear-algebra: Some more fixes for the makefile (an error when building PMCs, one when
15:25 dalek parrot-linear-algebra: cleaning up and another one when copying a file to dynext).
15:25 dalek parrot-linear-algebra: review: http://github.com/Whiteknight/parrot-linear-algebr​a/commit/dc49f2521715e060a194235caf1779fe9f31e519
15:35 dalek TT #1145 created by allison++: [TODO] Deprecated extend/embed API functions for calling subs/methods
15:41 dalek TT #198 closed by kjs++: PIRC segfaults on particular sequences of code.
15:41 dalek TT #186 closed by kjs++: Something wrong with numbers
15:41 dalek parrot: r42089 | allison++ | trunk/DEPRECATED.pod:
15:41 dalek parrot: [cage] Add deprecation notice for C API functions for calling subs/methods.
15:41 dalek parrot: review: https://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/42089/
15:45 dalek parrot: r42090 | allison++ | trunk/docs/embed.pod:
15:45 dalek parrot: [cage] Note the deprecated functions for calling subs/methods in the API
15:45 dalek parrot: documentation, and document the replacement function.
15:45 dalek parrot: review: https://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/42090/
15:49 ttbot Parrot trunk/ r42089 MSWin32-x86-multi-thread make error http://tt.ro.vutbr.cz/file/cmdout/123226.txt ( http://tt.ro.vutbr.cz//buil​dstatus/pr-Parrot/rp-trunk/ )
15:50 dalek tracwiki: v16 | allison++ | CallingConventionsTasklist
15:50 dalek tracwiki: https://trac.parrot.org/parrot/wiki/CallingCo​nventionsTasklist?version=16&amp;action=diff
15:50 dalek tracwiki: v17 | allison++ | CallingConventionsTasklist
15:50 dalek tracwiki: https://trac.parrot.org/parrot/wiki/CallingCo​nventionsTasklist?version=17&amp;action=diff
15:54 dalek TT #1146 created by kjs++: same code works on windows, not on mac
15:55 ttbot Parrot trunk/ r42090 MSWin32-x86-multi-thread make error http://tt.ro.vutbr.cz/file/cmdout/123249.txt ( http://tt.ro.vutbr.cz//buil​dstatus/pr-Parrot/rp-trunk/ )
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17:03 dalek parrot-linear-algebra: 5741559 | Whiteknight++ | config/Makefile.in:
17:03 dalek parrot-linear-algebra: add -fPIC to the commandline for the C compiler
17:03 dalek parrot-linear-algebra: review: http://github.com/Whiteknight/parrot-linear-algebr​a/commit/5741559f08916208971ad0834c839f09bf4ec02a
17:13 chromatic joined #parrot
17:16 Whiteknight in git, how do I view the current working version?
17:17 Whiteknight I guess that would be the MD5 of the last commit/pull?
17:18 Whiteknight or for that matter, how do I just view some information about the current repo?
17:22 treed git status ?
17:22 purl git status is porcelain
17:22 treed that just tells you what branch you're on though
17:22 treed when you say repo, do you mean the local one or the one you're tracking?
17:23 theory joined #parrot
17:24 Whiteknight treed: the one I'm tracking I guess
17:24 Whiteknight like I want to get the path to the one I am tracking, and the last revision that I've pulled from there
17:24 dalek lua: 4f842b3 | fperrad++ |  (2 files):
17:24 dalek lua: fix target smolder on Windows
17:24 dalek lua: review: http://github.com/fperrad/lua/commit/4f​842b3ce4b81e6b6fcddd56badba7df497c1962
17:36 plobsing git log origin?
17:37 Whiteknight better, but still not quite what I'm after. I'll dig through some documentation later
18:35 dalek parrot-linear-algebra: 31fa507 | Whiteknight++ | src/pmc/nummatrix2d.pmc:
18:35 dalek parrot-linear-algebra: add set_intger_keyed and get_integer_keyed VTABLEs
18:35 dalek parrot-linear-algebra: review: http://github.com/Whiteknight/parrot-linear-algebr​a/commit/31fa507c1062b04170ed8203bd7e16edb3ae164f
18:35 dalek parrot-linear-algebra: 57ddb5c | Whiteknight++ | src/pmc/nummatrix2d.pmc:
18:35 dalek parrot-linear-algebra: we need to clearly differentiate between matrix size and maximum index (zero-indexed). This solves some of the resizing problem
18:35 dalek parrot-linear-algebra: review: http://github.com/Whiteknight/parrot-linear-algebr​a/commit/57ddb5c009fba185206720224155125a326821b1
18:37 Whiteknight purl msg darbelo: NumMatrix2D PMC builds now with "make". We can start writing tests. Also, we need a "make install" target so that we can use this PMC from other languages (Matrixy_
18:37 purl Message for darbelo stored.
18:38 Whiteknight purl msg dukeleto: NumMatrix2D PMC builds now with "make". We can start writing tests for it now
18:38 purl Message for dukeleto stored.
18:49 masak joined #parrot
18:49 masak init::manifest -      Check MANIFEST...No such file: src/gc/res_lea.c
18:50 masak anyone else getting that?
18:51 Whiteknight that file was deleted, I think
18:51 Whiteknight MANIFEST shoud have been updated
18:52 Whiteknight what rev are you using?
18:54 masak r42090
18:57 jonathan Did anyone start on getting Rakudo to build on pcc_reapply yet, out of interest?
18:57 jonathan If not, I'll start that effort tomorrow.
19:05 Whiteknight masak: works for me at r42090. Try realclean?
19:05 masak Whiteknight: I seem to be experiencing some kind of problems with my hard drive. so the problem is probably just here.
19:07 jonathan masak: That sounds un-fun. :-/
19:07 masak jonathan: so far, it is. :/ I hope I'm wrong.
19:07 jonathan .oO( now might be a good time to take a backup )
19:10 masak nod. there's some app doing that for me every 24h.
19:11 jonathan Ah, cool.
19:17 * moritz wasted 4 hours yesterday due to a SATA cable that wasn't fixed properly
19:17 moritz my own fault most likely
19:31 Whiteknight does a pure-PIR test harness exist anywhere?
19:31 Whiteknight I would rather not use one that's based on Perl5
19:33 dalek lua: 63b8afc | fperrad++ |  (2 files):
19:33 dalek lua: now we don't need to test against installed parrot-lua
19:33 dalek lua: review: http://github.com/fperrad/lua/commit/63​b8afcc5bddad1b43982982be0c8f1b897bbf89
19:33 Whiteknight it doesn't have to be PIR, but it should be some language that runs on Parrot
19:36 dalek TT #1147 created by plobsing++: [PATCH] update nci.pmc for pcc_reapply
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19:47 * jonathan looks for the profiler docs...
19:50 janus joined #parrot
19:50 jonathan OK, I'm kinda failing at working out how to run the profiling runcore. :-/ Where is the doc I can't find?
19:50 pmichaud_ I'm not sure it's documented
19:50 pmichaud_ iirc, it's  parrot -Rprofiler ...
19:51 * pmichaud_ checks logs
19:51 moritz and then there's a script somewhere in tools/ or so that reformats the output into something that kcachegrind can work with
19:51 jonathan Ah, OK.
19:51 jonathan I just got KCacheGrind installed (an experience that reminded me exactly why I don't run Linux on the desktop).
19:52 jonathan And want to make pretty pictures.
19:52 jonathan ;-)
19:52 pmichaud_ hmmm
19:52 pmichaud_ installing kcachegrind for me was just
19:52 pmichaud_ apt-get install kcachegrind
19:52 jonathan :-P
19:53 moritz apt++
19:53 jonathan Yes, the Windows KDE installer was, erm... :-|
19:53 jonathan Don't get me wrong, I love Linux on the server.
19:53 pmichaud_ it was that for me on the desktop
19:54 jonathan aww
19:54 jonathan main: Unrecognized runcore 'profiler' specified.
19:55 jonathan ah
19:55 jonathan profil*ing*
19:56 pmichaud_ jonathan: http://irclog.perlgeek.de/p​arrot/2009-10-13#i_1598943  # might help
19:56 pmichaud_ oh, I guess not.
19:56 pmichaud_ anyway,  -R profiling to parrot
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19:58 jonathan ooh!
19:58 jonathan Nice!
19:58 mikehh joined #parrot
19:58 jonathan It's made a file, and then told me what command to run to get the output that KCacheGrind will like!
19:59 Coke jonathan: yes. let me know if the line numbers are all wrong for you when it's done.
19:59 jonathan (whoever did that)++
19:59 Coke cotto++
19:59 Coke chromatic++
19:59 * mikehh stoopid internet connexctuion
20:02 jonathan Whee, the output for Rakudo startup is 34MB!
20:02 jonathan I think I'll let pprof2cg.pl off for taking its time over that. :-)
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20:13 chromatic joined #parrot
20:15 jonathan cotto++ chromatic++ # Rakudo startup in KCacheGrind is pretty and informative. Thank you!
20:17 chromatic Are the line numbers and file names remotely accurate?
20:18 jonathan Note sure yet - the function names are what have been of most interest so far. The fact that it seems to think we spend 475% of our time in something feels a bit...odd...though .p)
20:19 chromatic KCG gets a little bit confused with continuations.
20:20 jonathan :-)
20:20 jonathan I'm still trying to work out what I'm really looking at.
20:22 dalek partcl: 130f71f | coke++ | runtime/builtin/after.pir:
20:22 dalek partcl: Avoid errors for non-numeric args to [after]
20:22 dalek partcl: (cleanup from recent int changes)
20:22 dalek partcl: review: http://github.com/partcl/partcl/commit/1​30f71f085201842bb7efb6cba6eec5b76c9810a
20:23 cotto There might be a bug or two remaining in the profiling runcore. ;)
20:23 jonathan chromatic: Do you understand what things like <cycle 3> as the sub name mean?
20:23 jonathan Well, or cotto. :-)
20:23 chromatic Turn off cycle detection.
20:23 jonathan chromatic: Details?
20:23 purl Details are important when programming or my program will not do what you thought you told it to
20:23 chromatic There are three big icons in the top middle; the rightmost controls cycle detection.
20:24 chromatic One of them is percentage, one is relative cost, and the other is cycle detection.
20:24 jonathan Aha
20:27 jonathan chromatic: Is there a simple explanation of what cycle detection is doing?
20:28 jonathan I mean, it seems to make the difference between a mega-pretty diagram of all the stuff we do on startup and where we spend time (if I understand it correctly, anyway).
20:28 jonathan Whereas with it off, it seems that it is more just an ordering of the things we spend most time in.
20:28 chromatic The most I understand is that it groups cycles of function calls by their branch.
20:29 chromatic Where does the cycle start?  Where does it stop?  They group by that.
20:29 dalek TT #1148 created by flh++: Implement "clone" method for CallSignature
20:30 jonathan chromatic: OK.
20:30 jonathan chromatic: With it off, I guess I'm getting in the flat view just a good idea of where we are spending time.
20:31 chromatic Good.
20:31 chromatic I almost never use cycle detection.
20:31 jonathan OK.
20:31 jonathan Wow. This is really informative.
20:34 bacek Good morning
20:36 chromatic bacek, want to help debug a patch?
20:36 bacek chromatic: sure, I've got about an hour before $dayjob
20:37 nopaste "chromatic" at 72.87.39.97 pasted "Use more macros in fill_results (bacek)" (115 lines) at http://nopaste.snit.ch/18447
20:37 chromatic I fail t/src/extend.t 17 and 18 with "named results must have a name specified" exceptions.
20:41 bacek chromatic: Looks like you can't use GETATTR to get underlying pointer. Try to add FIA.get_pointer and use it.
20:41 bacek chromatic: wait... I'm wrong. It's FIA anyway
20:41 chromatic Yeah, it works everywhere else I've added it.
20:42 eternaleye joined #parrot
20:43 bacek chromatic: src/extend.c:1051
20:43 bacek it should be FIA, not RPA
20:43 chromatic That'll do it.
20:44 bacek and replace push_integer with keyed access...
20:44 bacek # push_integer() not implemented in class 'FixedIntegerArray'
20:45 chromatic Right.
20:46 bacek or I can do it and commit it independently from your patch
20:46 chromatic I'm running tests now.
20:48 bacek chromatic: passed on my box :)
20:49 chromatic Ditto.
20:50 bacek ship it!
20:51 chromatic Pushing now.  Thanks, bacek.
20:51 dalek parrot: r42091 | chromatic++ | trunk/src/extend.c:
20:51 dalek parrot: [extend] Made append_result() use FixedIntegerArray to note return value
20:51 dalek parrot: instead of RIA; PCC expects a FIA for now.
20:51 dalek parrot: review: https://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/42091/
20:51 chromatic fill_params() could use something similar.
20:53 bacek chromatic: r42091 slightly wrong. Let me commit my version :)
20:54 dalek parrot: r42092 | chromatic++ | trunk/src/call/args.c:
20:54 dalek parrot: [PCC] Replaced more vtable calls with macros for improved performance in
20:54 dalek parrot: fill_returns().
20:54 dalek parrot: review: https://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/42092/
20:56 eternaleye joined #parrot
20:57 dalek parrot: r42093 | bacek++ | trunk/src/extend.c:
20:57 dalek parrot: Improve r42091 - expand old result_flags if they are present.
20:57 dalek parrot: review: https://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/42093/
20:59 ttbot Parrot trunk/ r42091 MSWin32-x86-multi-thread make error http://tt.ro.vutbr.cz/file/cmdout/123413.txt ( http://tt.ro.vutbr.cz//buil​dstatus/pr-Parrot/rp-trunk/ )
20:59 ttbot Parrot trunk/ r42092 MSWin32-x86-multi-thread make error http://tt.ro.vutbr.cz/file/cmdout/123414.txt ( http://tt.ro.vutbr.cz//buil​dstatus/pr-Parrot/rp-trunk/ )
21:03 bacek 4803308618
21:04 bacek (4831058690 - 4803308618) / 4831058690 * 100
21:04 purl 0.574409747027934
21:04 bacek chromatic: 0.57%
21:04 purl 0.0057
21:06 ttbot Parrot trunk/ r42093 MSWin32-x86-multi-thread make error http://tt.ro.vutbr.cz/file/cmdout/123452.txt ( http://tt.ro.vutbr.cz//buil​dstatus/pr-Parrot/rp-trunk/ )
21:11 dalek nqp-rx: 2c50f13 | pmichaud++ | build/PARROT_REVISION:
21:11 dalek nqp-rx: Bump PARROT_REVISION.
21:11 dalek nqp-rx: review: http://github.com/perl6/nqp-rx/commit/2​c50f135c2d22175d249f22a202e7581b1088ff8
21:11 dalek nqp-rx: 2bc2d2f | pmichaud++ | src/NQP/ (2 files):
21:11 dalek nqp-rx: Clean up name a bit.
21:11 dalek nqp-rx: review: http://github.com/perl6/nqp-rx/commit/2​bc2d2f49226e40d6b6ce4c7f14ba944f15661e7
21:11 dalek nqp-rx: b613e0d | pmichaud++ |  (5 files):
21:11 dalek nqp-rx: Add variable support.
21:11 dalek nqp-rx: review: http://github.com/perl6/nqp-rx/commit/b​613e0de99c4d5d6a533008fec29aed4d93453c7
21:17 bacek (4803308618 - 4745662108) / 4803308618 * 100
21:17 purl 1.20014170615593
21:17 Andy joined #parrot
21:20 dalek parrot: r42094 | bacek++ | trunk/src/call/args.c:
21:20 dalek parrot: Return early in fill_params error check if there is no named arguments. Improve fib.pir by another 1.2%.
21:20 dalek parrot: review: https://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/42094/
21:27 ttbot Parrot trunk/ r42094 MSWin32-x86-multi-thread make error http://tt.ro.vutbr.cz/file/cmdout/123528.txt ( http://tt.ro.vutbr.cz//buil​dstatus/pr-Parrot/rp-trunk/ )
21:27 payload joined #parrot
21:34 bacek msg chromatic Let's merge CallSignature and Context. It can give us about 15% improvement.
21:34 purl Message for chromatic stored.
21:37 bacek $dayjob time
21:38 dukeleto i am attempting to get parrot to work on RTEMS with their core dev
21:40 dukeleto we need to make a custom RTEMS hints file because it needs to be cross compiled
21:44 dukeleto RTEMS is a real time OS
21:47 Morpheus joined #parrot
21:47 Morpheus Hi
21:47 moritz hi Morpheus
21:48 dukeleto hola
21:48 Morpheus Which Python implementation is nearer to finish?
21:49 moritz I think allison was working on pynie - doN't know what's the status is, though
21:53 patspam joined #parrot
21:55 mikehh All tests PASS (pre/post-config, smoke (#29386), fulltest) at r42094 - Ubuntu 9.10 beta (updated) amd64
21:57 mikehh joined #parrot
22:01 bacek joined #parrot
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22:05 dukeleto the RTEMS guys are going to give us a Makefile that works, then we can write a proper hints file and/or fix our crazy configure scripts
22:07 darbelo dukeleto: you want to cross-compile parrot?
22:07 dukeleto darbelo: yes. halp?
22:07 darbelo To a platform with no perl.
22:07 darbelo Ouch.
22:08 darbelo You'll need a big hints file. And some Configure.pl overrides.
22:11 darbelo dukeleto: Thats, sounds like some very painful *fun*.
22:11 darbelo Sign me up!
22:12 * bacek passing darbelo book "Teach yourself BDSM with crosscompilation in 24 hours"
22:13 dukeleto darbelo: you can help me attempt to change our configure system to generate a given hand-tuned makefile
22:14 darbelo bacek: I did embedded development for a while, I don't need books to learn this stuff.
22:14 dukeleto darbelo: it is interesting, because RTEMS generates libs/includes for each os/platform/compiler combination
22:14 darbelo dukeleto: link?
22:14 purl or "Link is ... like ... this pointy eared goblin that walks around in midi-music land with a letter opener attacking circles and things and wooing princesses but not bannon, you know?" or preaction is Error.
22:15 dukeleto darbelo: http://www.rtems.com/
22:15 darbelo purl: Shut up, I'm not talking to you!
22:15 purl darbelo: excuse me?
22:15 dukeleto purl, go play in traffic
22:15 * purl wanders off to dent some cars.
22:25 darbelo dukeleto: I'm wandering in their wiki now. But I'm not sure what are you trying to coerce Configure into emitting. Can you clarify?
22:37 mikehh joined #parrot
22:40 dukeleto darbelo: for instance, our configure script picks up -fPIC from perl's compile flags, which is wrong
22:40 dukeleto darbelo: the entire concept of using perl's compile flags is wrong
22:41 darbelo dukeleto: That's overridable from hints. We just need to override the hints file used.
22:41 darbelo perl Configure.pl --hintsfile=something
22:43 dukeleto darbelo: we will probably have to heavily change our configs
22:43 dukeleto darbelo: yeah, about that. rtems has different header files needed for different steps, so we will most probably need to fiddle with how the hints files are used
22:44 dukeleto darbelo: i would be pleasantly amazed if we only need to create an RTEMS hints file.
22:45 dukeleto darbelo: we need to determine the current platform and then choose the correct header files and libs to use at each step
22:45 darbelo It whould be a *big* hints file, but I think it's a good start.
22:45 darbelo Anyways, gotta go now. Be back later.
22:46 dalek rakudo: 6817b90 | jonathan++ | src/parser/actions.pm:
22:46 dalek rakudo: Turns out we already keep enough info around at compile time to have a good idea if we already saw a multi candidate of a given name. That means we can avoid many calls to !TOPERL6MULTISUB at startup when all it would do is determine it has nothing to do. Only a couple of percent, it seems, but every little helps.
22:46 dalek rakudo: review: http://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/6​817b90e69d839ec85910433a4a256049c71255c
22:46 dalek rakudo: 67a6a81 | jonathan++ | src/ (2 files):
22:46 dalek rakudo: Do some optimization work on the reblessing of subs into their Perl 6 classes at startup. Between a tweak in !fixup_routine_type and some small optimizations to the rebless_subclass op, we save roughly 20% off the startup time before this patch. profiling++ (chromatic++, cotto++, kcachegrind++ too).
22:46 dalek rakudo: review: http://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/6​7a6a81ab2fa70ccb31f179fbf067082a854ce28
22:54 cotto pie graph?
22:56 jonathan Mmmm...pie.
22:58 plobsing http://graphjam.files.wordpress.com/2008/09/p​ie-chart-20090811-123901.jpg?w=500&amp;h=330
22:59 jonathan :-D
23:00 jonathan cotto: I fear it may be getting some of the source locations wrong.
23:00 jonathan cotto: However, my brain is kinda mushy today, so when it's less so, I'll try and get you a more meaningful/useful analysis on that.
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23:02 jonathan cotto: The other thing (which I'm not sure what we can do about) is that I think it may be grouping all variants of a multi together.
23:03 kthakore_ joined #parrot
23:04 dukeleto davidfetter: 'ello
23:04 davidfetter hi dukeleto :)
23:05 s1n_mini joined #parrot
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23:28 cotto jonathan, thanks.  I'll see about that.
23:30 jonathan cotto: BTW, I've only looked at this in kcachegrind so far. But I'm curious - if I want to take a sub and dig into where in it we're spending time (e.g. which ops are costly), do we have that info recorded too?
23:31 jonathan I mean, today I was able to massively optimize a dynop mostly by seeing it was the only likely thing in a sub that could be the really slow thing. But in other cases, it'd be harder to tell.
23:32 wknight8111 joined #parrot
23:32 pmichaud_ ...did the semantics for "make install-dev" change recently?
23:33 wknight8111 pmichaud_: yes
23:33 wknight8111 semantics for "make install" are now what "make install-dev" were
23:34 pmichaud_ when I do "make install-dev", it no longer installs the parrot binaries.
23:34 pmichaud_ (and it used to do so)
23:36 wknight8111 pmichaud_: I don't know how everything got rearranged. But I know that you want "make install" now
23:36 pmichaud_ you mean that "make install" installs the -dev files also?
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23:40 pmichaud_ shouldn't install-dev just do the same as 'make install', then?
23:40 pmichaud_ i.e., this seems like an api change
23:40 whiteknight "make install" installs the dev files now, yes
23:41 dukeleto pmichaud_: install = what install-dev used to be
23:41 pmichaud_ okay, but install-dev needs to continue to do what it used to also
23:41 whiteknight I don't know how this fits with the deprecation policy. I just remember reading that it had changed at some point for some reason
23:41 pmichaud_ we have lots of instructions out that tell people they need to use "make install-dev" to build Rakudo
23:41 dukeleto pmichaud_: we got sick of telling people to install-dev and getting bug reports about it.
23:41 dukeleto pmichaud_: please update them :)
23:41 pmichaud_ I agree with the change
23:41 Austin joined #parrot
23:41 pmichaud_ I agree that "make install" should install the dev files
23:42 pmichaud_ but I think that "make install-dev" should continue to do what it did before also
23:42 dukeleto pmichaud_: it has only been changed in trunk, not in 1.7.0
23:42 dukeleto pmichaud_: so all your docs are valid up to and including 1.7.0
23:42 pmichaud_ dukeleto: are you saying that "make install-dev" will work as before in 1.8.0 ?
23:42 pmichaud_ if not, it's a change
23:42 dukeleto pmichaud_: no, i didn't say that
23:43 pmichaud_ it's a change that affects packagers
23:43 dukeleto pmichaud_: yes
23:43 dukeleto pmichaud_: what does install-dev do now?
23:43 jonathan If anything, I'd expect install-dev to become an alias to install in this case.
23:43 pmichaud_ it fails to install the parrot binaries
23:43 pmichaud_ I agree, install-dev should become an alias
23:43 pmichaud_ I don't understand why there's even any discussion on this point.
23:44 jonathan Well, I guess first is to know: was this intentional, or just accidental?
23:44 jonathan It could always be the latter.
23:44 cottoo joined #parrot
23:44 pmichaud_ sure, it could be accidental.  But it still needs to be fixed.
23:44 dukeleto jonathan: is what intentional?
23:44 pmichaud_ as opposed to "it still works in 1.7.0, so it's not an issue"
23:44 jonathan dukeleto: make install-dev not installing stuff that it used to.
23:45 jonathan dukeleto: It'll break at least the Rakudo build process.
23:45 jonathan But I highly doubt it'd only be Rakudo that is affected.
23:45 dukeleto jonathan: install-dev was renamed install, on purpose.
23:45 dukeleto see the recent parrot-dev thread
23:46 dukeleto darbelo wrote the patch, he might be good to ask. rakudo should probably just use "make install"
23:46 jonathan dukeleto: That's not the issue, it's that install-dev should then just be an alias to install, and subject to a deprecation cycle.
23:47 dukeleto jonathan: not sure how/if the dep cycle applies. that is a good question for allison
23:47 jonathan So it can be announced and people have a chance to migrate, rather than having to discover this for themselves.
23:47 jonathan pmichaud_: imnsho, just patch it to be an alias.
23:47 dukeleto jonathan: you guys don't read parrot-dev? ;)
23:47 pmichaud_ I've just read parrot-dev, it doesn't say anything I haven't already said.
23:48 dukeleto pmichaud_: then we have a bug and would greatly appreciate a patch
23:48 pmichaud_ the install-dev target used to have 'install' as a dependency.  Now it no longer does.  That's a bug.
23:48 jonathan Additionally, following parrot-dev should not be a requirement for developing a Parrot-targetting compiler.
23:48 pmichaud_ I will patch it then.
23:48 jonathan Go for it.
23:49 jonathan We have commit bits for a reason. :-)
23:49 pmichaud_ testing.
23:49 purl i guess testing is the best thing ever ZOMG
23:49 dukeleto jonathan: I would like to agree with you, but that just isn't the case yet
23:50 payload joined #parrot
23:50 jonathan dukeleto: Aye, but we should at least make an effort to try and move things in that direction. :-)
23:51 dukeleto jonathan: we try the best we can. I think we assumed that the install/install-dev change wasn't going to break stuff for y'all. obviously, we were wrong
23:51 dukeleto bbiab
23:51 cottoo msg chromatic I'm seeing only a .17% difference in oofib performance between r41971 and r42085 running under callgrind and looking at the instruction count.  What are you using to get the 2.144%?
23:51 purl Message for chromatic stored.
23:52 pmichaud_ I think the point of the deprecation policy is that parrot developers aren't free to make those sort of assumptions.
23:52 whiteknight dukeleto: ping
23:54 dukeleto whiteknight: pong but I am one foot out the door....
23:54 dukeleto whiteknight: plz msg me and I will be back in a few
23:54 Zak joined #parrot
23:55 whiteknight ok
23:55 eternaleye joined #parrot
23:56 whiteknight purl msg dukeleto: I'm interested in that RTEM stuff. never heard of that particular RTOS before, but I'm a big embedded guy. Let me know what information you have, what the plans are, and what work needs to be done.
23:56 purl Message for dukeleto stored.
23:56 jonathan whiteknight: oh hai. Did your :call_sig patch land at all, after pcc_reapply did?
23:57 eternaleye joined #parrot
23:57 Coke it looks like install now does "install-bin install-dev".
23:57 whiteknight jonathan: a prototype of it is in trunk now, yes
23:58 whiteknight very very very limited, but should give you an idea
23:58 jonathan whiteknight: OK. I'm going to work tomorrow on getting Rakudo building, and then working if that needs extra effort, on trunk.
23:58 jonathan Then I can look at using :call_sig, for the performance wins.
23:59 jonathan And also it'll help me get some other aspects of the code into shape.
23:59 whiteknight jonathan: t/op/cc_params.t for the few working examples
23:59 whiteknight literally nothing else works besides what's in that file, so don't even try

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