Camelia, the Perl 6 bug

IRC log for #parrot, 2009-10-28

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Time Nick Message
00:06 dalek parrot-linear-algebra: fd89940 | darbelo++ |  (2 files):
00:06 dalek parrot-linear-algebra: Add first example of custom @symbol@ creation for the Makefile template.
00:06 dalek parrot-linear-algebra: This should take the place of the "#IF()" construct used on the parrot Makefile templates.
00:06 dalek parrot-linear-algebra: Incidentally, fix the build on OpenBSD.
00:06 dalek parrot-linear-algebra: review: http://github.com/Whiteknight/parrot-linear-algebr​a/commit/fd89940f2536dfe6c11085fe0ae79c75587f6756
00:06 dalek parrot-linear-algebra: 90d7929 | darbelo++ | :
00:06 dalek parrot-linear-algebra: Merge branch 'master' of github.com:Whiteknight/parrot-linear-algebra
00:06 dalek parrot-linear-algebra: review: http://github.com/Whiteknight/parrot-linear-algebr​a/commit/90d7929f19568b22f99c14b06e0154f9e0f1dc5e
00:06 dalek parrot-linear-algebra: 632761f | Whiteknight++ | src/pmc/nummatrix2d.pmc:
00:06 dalek parrot-linear-algebra: Add a few new accessors to NumMatrix2D. This includes STRING and PMC accessors, and linear '_keyed_int' accessors for people who want that too
00:06 dalek parrot-linear-algebra: review: http://github.com/Whiteknight/parrot-linear-algebr​a/commit/632761f4c181167713734d49e0c426a518f4ff33
00:06 dalek parrot-linear-algebra: 8d158d8 | Whiteknight++ | :
00:06 dalek parrot-linear-algebra: Merge branch 'master' of git@github.com:Whiteknight/parrot-linear-algebra
00:06 dalek parrot-linear-algebra: review: http://github.com/Whiteknight/parrot-linear-algebr​a/commit/8d158d8ef45caab7762f6d5fb851c824f0862ce0
00:09 darbelo Whiteknight: ping
00:09 Whiteknight darbelo: pong
00:09 Whiteknight purl msg darbelo pong
00:10 darbelo Can you test my last push, see if it unbroke the build after a reconfigure.
00:11 dalek parrot-linear-algebra: 8cbe0d7 | darbelo++ | Configure.nqp:
00:11 dalek parrot-linear-algebra: Oops. Unbreak other platforms after the last Configure change.
00:11 dalek parrot-linear-algebra: review: http://github.com/Whiteknight/parrot-linear-algebr​a/commit/8cbe0d7aa921b78984b01161d15f6e11c5cd25e0
00:12 Whiteknight darbelo: make and test works for me
00:12 darbelo did you run Configure.nqp?
00:13 darbelo Also, is there a -lblas in your makefile?
00:14 Whiteknight I did run Configure.nqp
00:14 Whiteknight no, it doesn't look like there's -lblas in my makefile
00:15 Whiteknight but it did link. So no idea what that's about
00:16 darbelo You probably don't need -lblas for it to link.
00:16 Whiteknight ok
00:16 darbelo But that means my changes didn't work like I expected.
00:16 Whiteknight ok
00:17 Coke who has the most recent version of gcc?
00:17 Coke (I have 4.3.4)
00:17 darbelo Agh, another stupid typo. Nevermind.
00:17 Whiteknight what's the most recent?
00:17 Whiteknight I have 4.4.1
00:18 * darbelo has  3.3.5
00:18 Whiteknight darbelo has been banned from the internet
00:19 Coke Whiteknight: can you try http://rt.perl.org/rt3/Tic​ket/Display.html?id=50908
00:19 payload joined #parrot
00:19 Coke (there's a .c file at the end there; try the lat compilation line with -Werror=...
00:23 dalek parrot-linear-algebra: 373fd82 | darbelo++ | Configure.nqp:
00:23 dalek parrot-linear-algebra: Agh. Another typo in Configure.
00:23 dalek parrot-linear-algebra: review: http://github.com/Whiteknight/parrot-linear-algebr​a/commit/373fd82449127ecd9c5b726b963974a438d8a6c7
00:26 Whiteknight Coke: works for me
00:26 Whiteknight warns when -W, errors when -Werror=
00:27 Whiteknight close that sucker
00:27 Coke ok, I believe you. =-)
00:28 bacek_at_work Coke, trust no one!
00:31 Coke Whiteknight++
00:31 payload joined #parrot
00:34 cotto_work I'd like to see einstein rewrite his proposal.  I'm sure part of the reason for the partial warnocking is that it's not especially well written or formatted.
00:35 dalek parrot: r42147 | whiteknight++ | branches/tt_1020:
00:35 dalek parrot: Creating a new branch to test some stuff for TT #1020
00:35 dalek parrot: review: https://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/42147/
00:36 Whiteknight cotto_work: agreed. It's very interesting, but I completely misunderstood it today
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00:42 cotto_work also I don't see how it could possibly be faster than what we have now.  iiuc he wants make every PMC act like a pir-level PMC and go through Object.
00:42 Whiteknight that's sort of what I thought too, but I think that's not it
00:42 jonathan got a link handy?
00:42 Whiteknight TT #1020
00:42 cotto_work https://trac.parrot.org/parrot/​attachment/ticket/1020/plan.txt
00:43 * jonathan glances over it
00:44 cotto_work just ignore the struct stuff.
00:44 cotto_work the first batch, at least
00:45 jonathan oh, it's another attempt on making subclassing PMCs cleaner.
00:47 jonathan Ah, and perhaps storage efficiency, and opening the door to non-PMC attributes.
00:48 Whiteknight it has some interesting ideas, but it's a huge change
00:49 cotto_work jonathan, you mean non-INSP attribute?
00:49 cotto_work s/te/tes/
00:49 jonathan cotto_work: today, an Object PMC can only have PMC attributes.
00:49 jonathan That is, you gotta box everything.
00:49 cotto_work ok
00:49 jonathan Some unification between PMCs and Objects would be perhaps interesting.
00:50 jonathan Doing it well may mean runtime generation of stuff doing struct-like things though.
00:50 dalek TT #1151 created by coke++: Exception thrown from constructor leads to oddness
00:51 jonathan Whiteknight: Yes, it's a huge change.
00:51 Whiteknight it may also mean some nice performance wins
00:52 jonathan Whiteknight: And, I hate to say this, but...I've got code that actually depends on us having the proxy objects. ;-)
00:52 jonathan I'd be willing to change though.
00:52 Whiteknight I cna't imagine. I still have no idea what purpose those damn proxies serve
00:52 jonathan Oh, I know that part.
00:53 jonathan The idea was like this:
00:53 jonathan You could have multiple types of classes (e.g. PMCs were one type, a Parrot Class was another, a HLL's custom class would be another).
00:54 jonathan And they could have their own objects which had their own internal layout.
00:54 jonathan If you inherited from something that was a different type of object, e.g. that had a different internal layout, then you would just have a proxy object there for the prupose of the storage, and iteract with it fully through the vtable methods.
00:55 jonathan If it was your own, known, type of class, you could of course cheat lots and not have the proxies.
00:55 jonathan That meant that we could have different underlying object representations.
00:56 jonathan At the time we had 2 - PMCs and high level Objects.
00:56 jonathan But I could see more coming.
00:56 Whiteknight I can't imagine that anybody ever saw that as a good idea
00:56 jonathan Heh. It was mine, and I don't think it was a bad one.
00:56 cotto_work Whiteknight, where could the performance wins come from in TT #1020?
00:56 Whiteknight I mean, the performance loss of switching representations is lousy. Much better to shoehorn everyting into the same system
00:56 Whiteknight cotto_work: not having to box Object attributes for one
00:57 jonathan Yes, if you really seriously thing you're going to create one amazing representation that is so awesome it will work for every language that could want to use Parrot.
00:57 Whiteknight storing Object attributes in a C array, instead of a Hash for another
00:57 jonathan *think
00:57 jonathan Whiteknight: Object attributes are stored in a RPA, not a Hash.
00:57 Whiteknight jonathan: doesn't have to be seriously awesome. Needs to be very low level and stay out of the way
00:58 Whiteknight Anyway, I've got to get to bed. Goodnight all
00:58 jonathan o/
00:58 cotto_work but it seems like for the common case of using simple PMCs, adding another level will cause a big slowdown without performance win
00:58 cotto_work night
00:58 jonathan cotto_work: Right.
00:59 cotto_work I can see how this could be more valiable with Lorito though.
00:59 jonathan cotto_work: Thus why it made some sense that things that could represent themselves in a smarter way than a hash table (e.g. being based on a C struct and written in C, like PMCs are) could do that.
01:00 jonathan The fact that Parrot since I put this model in has half-heartedly soft-of abandoned it but not quite means we're now stuff with the worst of both worlds in some senses, as einstein points out.
01:01 jonathan It also hurts in that Rakudo now has lost Parrot providing support for the Perl 6 idea of multiple representations.
01:01 jonathan Meaning we'll quite possibly end up moving away from Parrot's Class and Object PMCs at some point in the future.
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01:03 plobsing I don't see why we don't do something equivalent now. If we restrict sizes we can fit INTVALS and FLOATVALS into the R(not really P)A.
01:04 plobsing implement the appropriate get/set attribute ops and we're there.
01:04 * plobsing is obviously overlooking something
01:04 dalek parrot: r42148 | coke++ | trunk (2 files):
01:04 dalek parrot: Add a test for TT #1151
01:04 dalek parrot: review: https://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/42148/
01:04 cotto_work coke++ for adding a file called new-old.t
01:10 * cotto_work hopes his reply sounds more like constructive criticism than a flame
01:11 cotto_work summon purl
01:11 cotto_work purl--
01:12 cotto_work we'll find out soon enough
01:13 dalek TT #1152 created by coke++: :named should default to the name of the parameter
01:13 purl joined #parrot
01:13 cotto_work wb purl--
01:14 plobsing karma purl
01:14 purl purl has karma of 8754
01:14 cotto_work the selective hearing helps
01:14 cotto_work purl--
01:14 purl cotto_work: what?
01:14 cotto_work karma purl
01:14 purl purl has karma of 8754
01:15 cotto_work afk
01:15 cotto_work afw too
01:15 * jonathan -> sleep
01:15 plobsing purl?
01:15 purl yes, plobsing?
01:20 dalek parrot: r42149 | coke++ | trunk/t/compilers/imcc/syn/pcc.t:
01:20 dalek parrot: add a test for TT #1152
01:21 dalek parrot: review: https://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/42149/
01:25 Coke cotto_work: I thought it was awesome, myself. =-)
01:25 dalek parrot-plumage: 8e29a0e | japhb++ | :
01:25 dalek parrot-plumage: [META] Lots of TODO updates
01:25 dalek parrot-plumage: review: http://gitorious.org/parrot-plumage/parrot-plumag​e/commit/8e29a0e3e87ce5782788db7df409fa0cc924ba4d
01:27 dalek parrot: r42150 | coke++ | trunk/docs/running.pod:
01:27 dalek parrot: Remove hopeful but incorrect docs.
01:27 dalek parrot: review: https://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/42150/
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01:42 dalek TT #1153 created by coke++: 'parrot -O2 oofib.pir' errors out, when -O1 succeeds
01:45 jhelwig joined #parrot
02:17 dalek parrot: r42151 | pmichaud++ | trunk/compilers/pct/src/PAST/Compiler.pir:
02:17 dalek parrot: [pct/past]:  Add 'contextual' scope to PAST::Var.
02:17 dalek parrot: review: https://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/42151/
02:17 confound joined #parrot
02:17 dalek nqp-rx: f645528 | pmichaud++ |  (4 files):
02:17 dalek nqp-rx: [nqp]:  Add contextual vars, tests for optional args.
02:17 dalek nqp-rx: review: http://github.com/perl6/nqp-rx/commit/f​645528723ca9ef9c7c42e00c753bdcc885fe9a3
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02:33 dalek parrot: r42152 | coke++ | trunk/src/pmc/default.pmc:
02:33 dalek parrot: Remove old "what-if" comment.
02:33 dalek parrot: review: https://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/42152/
02:37 Coke lua?
02:37 purl it has been said that lua is at http://www.lua.org/
02:38 bacek_at_work purl: lua is also http://github.com/fperrad/lua
02:38 purl okay, bacek_at_work.
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02:47 Austin joined #parrot
02:48 bacek_at_work msg chromatic I don't think that https://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/42135 is correct. We just need more tests...
02:48 purl Message for chromatic stored.
03:01 Coke pmichaud_: ping
03:12 dalek TT #1154 created by chromatic++: Handle Pending Events More Frequently
03:15 dalek TT #1155 created by rurban++: dynext - dll versioning
03:16 Coke I am kind of wierded out that I can create tickets as if I were someone else. =-)
03:17 Coke msg chromatic assigned you RT#57236 because you're the pbc2exe guy.
03:17 purl Message for chromatic stored.
03:20 abqar joined #parrot
03:26 Austin Remember, Coke: with great power comes great responsibility.
03:38 dalek parrot: r42153 | coke++ | trunk/t/pmc/resizablepmcarray.t:
03:38 dalek parrot: Avoid regressions for #56448
03:38 dalek parrot: review: https://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/42153/
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04:07 Coke msg pmichaud can you please double check if #47970 is still an issue?
04:07 purl Message for pmichaud stored.
04:07 * Coke gets TT down to 156.
04:07 Coke er, RT
04:08 dalek nqp-rx: ed8726a | pmichaud++ |  (4 files):
04:08 dalek nqp-rx: [nqp]  Add named argument handling.
04:08 dalek nqp-rx: review: http://github.com/perl6/nqp-rx/commit/e​d8726a6fb0e644a9b69e9fc25cfee8324056508
04:08 dalek nqp-rx: 742167e | pmichaud++ |  (3 files):
04:08 dalek nqp-rx: [nqp]:  Add modules, package-based names.
04:08 dalek nqp-rx: review: http://github.com/perl6/nqp-rx/commit/7​42167ef98a75022d62364ae57ba455379e15ff0
04:16 Austin Coke++
04:20 theory joined #parrot
04:29 mikehh joined #parrot
04:30 Austin The worthless word for today is "stupex".  An obsolescent, jocular term for "a fool".
04:51 dalek nqp-rx: e1d65a0 | pmichaud++ |  (3 files):
04:51 dalek nqp-rx: [nqp]:  Add class declarations and method calls.
04:51 dalek nqp-rx: review: http://github.com/perl6/nqp-rx/commit/e​1d65a020c388d8154e2bfa03f39ca00a20aca3e
04:57 dalek nqp-rx: 8199cf6 | pmichaud++ |  (4 files):
04:57 dalek nqp-rx: [nqp]:  Add 'self', methodop tests.
04:57 dalek nqp-rx: review: http://github.com/perl6/nqp-rx/commit/8​199cf6d6ee75ae6972a050e6c5d55f96a30ebba
04:57 dalek nqp-rx: 9bfe3c4 | pmichaud++ | t/nqp/28-subclass.t:
04:57 dalek nqp-rx: [nqp]:  Add tests for subclassing.
04:57 dalek nqp-rx: review: http://github.com/perl6/nqp-rx/commit/9​bfe3c468afdf0f96d08deddebf6b789fed0eea4
05:13 cotto "stupex"?  That's an awesome word!
05:15 cotto pmichaud_, how close to "ready" is nqp-rx?
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05:26 dalek nqp-rx: dd2ec36 | pmichaud++ |  (3 files):
05:26 dalek nqp-rx: [nqp]:  Add statement_prefix:sym<make>, $/ $_ $! variables.
05:26 dalek nqp-rx: review: http://github.com/perl6/nqp-rx/commit/d​d2ec36cd1f4a6b3423501e4a33401a970a27578
05:26 dalek nqp-rx: 1316068 | pmichaud++ | src/NQP/ (2 files):
05:26 dalek nqp-rx: [nqp]:  Add $<foo> and $[0] variables.
05:26 dalek nqp-rx: review: http://github.com/perl6/nqp-rx/commit/1​3160682dc710caea490e196082d25410717e5dc
05:34 pmichaud_ cotto: very close to "ready"
05:34 pmichaud_ cotto: I'm already passing all of the old nqp test suite except for pod comments.
05:34 pmichaud_ and @(...)
05:34 jdv79 i look forward to the new nqp
05:34 pmichaud_ (the later is trivial to implement.)
05:34 pmichaud_ I do too.
05:34 cotto With your velocity, I'm not surprised.
05:35 pmichaud_ I need to write up the list of features that are already in the new nqp
05:35 pmichaud_ here's a short list:
05:35 pmichaud_ infix:<//>
05:35 pmichaud_ contextual vars
05:35 pmichaud_ $foo.method: $args       (alternative to $foo.method($args) )
05:36 pmichaud_ :xyz<something>       (alternative to :xyz('something') )
05:36 pmichaud_ :xyz              (alternative to :xyz(1) )
05:36 pmichaud_ :!xyz             (alternative to :xyz(0) )
05:37 pmichaud_ <abc def ghi>     (alternative to   ('abc', 'def', 'ghi') )
05:37 Tene pmichaud_: does rakudo trunk build against parrot after the pcc merge yet?
05:37 pmichaud_ Tene: I think jnthn merged the branch earlier today
05:37 Tene Great.
05:37 pmichaud_ (so I think "yes")
05:37 pmichaud_ I haven't independently verified it yet.
05:38 Tene I'm feeling like starting on some IO work for Parrot, probably starting with a 'select' PMC
05:39 Tene I want to get back to working on my POE clone.
05:39 cotto it looks like yes, as rakudo master pulls a post-merge revision with gen-parrot
05:39 Tene Thanks, cotto.
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05:41 cotto night, owls
05:42 jdv79 POE is entirely too inefficient
05:42 dngor Tene: If I had Moose when I was starting POE it might look like Reflex
05:42 jdv79 p6 events were supposed to be better
05:42 treed Power over Ethernet?
05:43 pmichaud_ at the moment I'm seeing if the new NQP can compile its own Actions.pm
05:43 jdv79 POE is perl's answer to python's Twisted.
05:43 jdv79 just an event framework
05:43 treed Ah.
05:43 jdv79 Perl Object Environment i think...
05:43 jdv79 lame name
05:44 * treed has only limited experience with Perl.
05:44 treed Starting to get better, though.
05:44 treed I was reading up today on use threads.
05:44 treed Need to parallelize a script at work.
05:44 * jdv79 has almost no ruby experience except that rake thing for cardinal
05:44 treed heh.
05:45 treed I would love to use ruby at work.
05:45 treed But no one else would love me for it.
05:45 jdv79 do not use p5 threads.
05:45 treed Engineering uses Python, Ops uses Perl5.
05:45 treed No love for Ruby. :-(
05:45 treed Why not?
05:45 jdv79 :(
05:45 jdv79 cause they are implemented horribly
05:45 jdv79 each thread is a new interp
05:46 jdv79 just fork
05:46 treed Sure, but I intended to do the worker model.
05:46 treed Like 5 threads.
05:47 treed Farm out work and collect the results.
05:47 jdv79 *nix?
05:47 treed Yeah.
05:48 jdv79 fork!
05:48 jdv79 :)
05:48 treed Isn't that the same thing?
05:48 jdv79 no. cow.
05:48 treed But with threads, the coding is a little cleaner.
05:48 jdv79 good luck with that:)
05:49 * jdv79 passes out.
05:49 Tene 'night
05:54 treed Seems like this would be a prime candidate for P6 junctions+autothreading.
05:54 treed The stuff that takes forever is just a foreach.
05:58 Tene If I could get Parrot threading to not crash, it would be a step towards autothreading in Rakudo.
05:59 Tene tt757, iirc
06:00 kyle_l5l I think I'm getting close.
06:00 kyle_l5l (to get parrot threading to not crash, and threads to work in rakudo)
06:02 Tene :D
06:02 Tene I'm so glad to hear that.
06:02 kyle_l5l I only need 10GB of memory at the moment to make one rakudo thread!
06:03 Tene o.O what?
06:03 purl o.O is what happens when one of my bra straps is broken
06:03 kyle_l5l hah.  Somewhere in the jungle that is parrot_freeze and parrot_thaw, something is getting out of hand.
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06:17 pmichaud_ http://nopaste.snit.ch/18488  # accessing PIR opcodes directly from NQP
06:19 dalek nqp-rx: 463e6af | pmichaud++ | src/NQP/ (2 files):
06:19 dalek nqp-rx: [nqp]:  Allow subroutine and method names of form "category:sym<...>".
06:19 dalek nqp-rx: review: http://github.com/perl6/nqp-rx/commit/4​63e6af80257a0c7f715aafbbd61448d6553b5b7
06:19 dalek nqp-rx: 2a89139 | pmichaud++ |  (3 files):
06:19 dalek nqp-rx: [nqp]:  Add ability to access PIR opcodes directly via PIR:: pseudonamespace.
06:19 dalek nqp-rx: review: http://github.com/perl6/nqp-rx/commit/2​a8913968bd00e86a46744faecdffe8b7be614c9
06:19 pmichaud_ time for sleep -- more tomorrow.
06:21 JimmyZ pmichaud_: good ninght.
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06:31 Tene okay, I got a basic pipe example working in C... I think I'd be willing to tackle the Pipe PMC.
06:32 Tene ... I don't see one.
06:33 chromatic joined #parrot
06:40 Tene ah, it's just part of filehandle.pmc
06:44 Tene okay, got the IO tasklist open, I'll start evaluating it during work tomorrow.
06:44 Tene whiteknight++ for detailed iotasklist wiki page
06:58 dalek parrot: r42154 | mikehh++ | trunk/compilers/pct/src/PAST/Compiler.pir:
06:58 dalek parrot: fix codetest failure - trailing spaces
06:58 dalek parrot: review: https://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/42154/
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07:13 mikehh All tests PASS (pre/post-config, smoke (#29455), fulltest) at r42154 - Ubuntu 9.10 RC amd64
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08:27 dalek nqp-rx: 819be4d | pmichaud++ | t/nqp/30-pirop.t:
08:27 dalek nqp-rx: [nqp]:  Failure to plan(3); is like planning to fail.
08:27 dalek nqp-rx: review: http://github.com/perl6/nqp-rx/commit/8​19be4daf3589aca2be39e38fa21427f4552438c
08:27 dalek nqp-rx: b1c6254 | pmichaud++ | src/ (4 files):
08:27 dalek nqp-rx: [nqp]:  Add regex_declarator.
08:27 dalek nqp-rx: review: http://github.com/perl6/nqp-rx/commit/b​1c625400d9c620c0ab9e4c8bed625a919fd43dd
08:27 dalek nqp-rx: c571f83 | pmichaud++ |  (3 files):
08:27 dalek nqp-rx: [nqp]:  Add grammars, tokens, regexes, rules, and protoregexes.
08:27 dalek nqp-rx: review: http://github.com/perl6/nqp-rx/commit/c​571f839bc5c0c24378a1930f1e716c50f023898
08:27 dalek nqp-rx: eb5ffe7 | pmichaud++ | t/nqp/32-protoregex.t:
08:27 dalek nqp-rx: [nqp]:  Add some simple protoregex tests.
08:27 dalek nqp-rx: review: http://github.com/perl6/nqp-rx/commit/e​b5ffe73155ab76284545fe459d37c1d44002bd4
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09:09 Austin Is it me, or are there absolutely no tests for the 'slice' opcode?
09:11 moritz I have an old version of parrot lying here, and it really doesn't have any tests for it
09:11 Austin 7 ack -a slice $_PARROT/t  only has an opcode parse test with a hit - 01-parse_ops, or some such.
09:12 moritz same here
09:12 Topic for #parrotis now Parrot 1.7.0 "African Grey" is out! | Fix issues caused by the pcc_reapply merge | write tests for slice opcode
09:13 Austin I can't find any design docs for it - FPA references pdd17 - basic types, but there's nothing there.
09:13 Austin The intent seems to have been to turn a key into an iterator.
09:14 Austin Which suggests that they intended to overload the key with both starting and ending data:  $P0 = slice array [ 0; 10 ]
09:14 moritz I'm sure chromatic or bacek_at_work know what to make of it
09:14 Austin Which strikes me as idiotic, since keys support multiple dimensions. So that must be wrong.
09:16 Austin Slice pmcs were removed in 1.1.0
09:16 Austin (NEWS)
09:16 Austin Slice syntax was gone in 0.9.0
09:17 Austin So the opcode should probably get deprecated.
09:17 moritz rakudo doesn't seem to use it
09:17 Topic for #parrotis now Parrot 1.7.0 "African Grey" is out! | Fix issues caused by the pcc_reapply merge | find out what's up with the slice opcode
09:18 Austin I think their slices are probably way too mixed up with the language.
09:18 Austin Anyway, all this is unfortunate, because I need a slice of an array. :(
09:18 Austin Hello, "for(...)"
09:28 dalek parrot: r42155 | kjs++ | trunk/compilers/pirc/src/pircompunit.c:
09:28 dalek parrot: [pirc] TT#1152; set default value of :named flag if not specified
09:28 dalek parrot: review: https://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/42155/
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09:57 moritz purl: patches welcome?
09:57 purl well, patches welcome is ponies welcome or Set Objectives, Achieve Results! or swahili for "Put up or shut up."
10:27 mokurai left #parrot
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10:59 * kid51 nods at #mongers and gives him a small kipper
11:01 kj joined #parrot
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11:02 kid51 Good morning #parrot
11:02 * kid51 is testing gabor's new Padre IRC client
11:03 kid51 ... which can be found at http://padre.perlide.org/irc.html
11:03 kid51 It's basically a wrapper around mibbit (for the time being)
11:04 szbalint which is mibbit in disguise
11:04 szbalint :)
11:04 szbalint heh, latency--
11:06 jimk joined #parrot
11:07 kid51 What this means, of course, is that if I use my regular IRC client, I'll get logged in with my alternate nick ...
11:07 jimk ... and then the two sides of my personality can publicly argue with each other :-)
11:09 kid51 The Mibbit interface serves up ads.   Am seeing, "Train Your African Grey:  Earn Your Parrot's Love in Minutes.  You'll Never be Bitten Again!"
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12:24 whiteknight good morning #parrot
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12:32 moritz does 'make install' now also imply 'make install-dev'?
12:36 tetragon joined #parrot
12:39 moritz I'm getting an error trying to build rakudo on parrot trunk
12:39 moritz /scratch/mlenz/rakudo/parrot_install/bin/parrot: symbol lookup error: /scratch/mlenz/rakudo/parrot/run​time/parrot/dynext/math_ops.so: undefined symbol: Parrot_pcc_get_context_struct
12:39 moritz that's during the step that compiles the setting to PIR
12:39 moritz has anything been changed regarding installation of math dynops?
12:40 moritz (on amd64 linux btw)
12:52 jonathan moritz: Yes, make install is make install-dev now - they're aliases.
12:52 moritz jonathan: so we can remove that part of rakudo's README - great
12:52 jonathan nod
13:01 dalek rakudo: 3ec4d40 | moritz++ | src/setting/Operators.pm:
13:01 dalek rakudo: implement Bool eqv Bool, be more verbose in error message in cases where eqv is not yet implemented
13:01 dalek rakudo: review: http://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/3​ec4d4037fa69f58881dbd089eeabb9526b46767
13:01 dalek rakudo: c0ba847 | moritz++ | README:
13:01 dalek rakudo: [README] "make install" in parrot is now sufficient
13:01 dalek rakudo: review: http://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/c​0ba8477f77c9f8f8b9866c2c6f6f089da4425cb
13:03 dalek TT #1156 created by whiteknight++: add_sub should append to a MultSub
13:03 whiteknight moritz: make install is what make install-dev used to be
13:10 particle joined #parrot
13:16 dalek TT #1157 created by whiteknight++: Whitespace before/after the dot in a methodcall is disallowed
13:32 whiteknight Down to 145 RT tickets now
13:37 whiteknight I'll make another pass through the unowned tickets later to pick more low-hanging fruit
13:39 Coke iotasklist. (being able to gets on a socket would be nice.)
13:40 Coke whiteknight: thanks.
13:40 fperrad joined #parrot
13:40 Coke whiteknight++
13:40 Coke whiteknight: have you been cc'ing the list when closing tickets?
13:41 whiteknight ...I don't think so
13:41 whiteknight doesn't it do that automatically?
13:41 whiteknight (or is that Trac?)
13:41 Coke whiteknight: that's trac.
13:41 Coke (this is why I mentioned explicitly in my email about RT)
13:41 whiteknight ah damnit. Then no, I haven't cc'd the list
13:42 whiteknight next time :)
13:42 Coke OK. especially if you closed tickets without opening them in RT, and you weren't the OP, it would be nice to have those cc'd to the list.
13:42 Coke s/in RT/in TT/
13:43 whiteknight I did open trac tickets for the ones that weren't obviously, or weren't completely resolved
13:46 Coke did you take ownership of the ones you closed?
13:46 Coke (just wondering if we can get at a list of those tickets via the GUI)
13:46 Coke (of course, rt is HTTP 500 now.)
13:49 dalek parrot: r42156 | jonathan++ | trunk/compilers/pct/src (3 files):
13:49 dalek parrot: [pct] Add initial bits of support to PAST and POST for handling :call_sig parameters.
13:49 dalek parrot: review: https://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/42156/
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13:49 Coke ah, there's a lastupdatedby
13:50 Coke got 'em
13:51 Coke I'll just cc the list with your last commetn.
13:52 jonathan whiteknight: ping
13:54 payload joined #parrot
13:54 Coke whiteknight: done.
13:56 payload joined #parrot
13:56 whiteknight jonathan: pong
13:57 jonathan whiteknight: oh hai
13:57 whiteknight hello
13:57 purl hey, whiteknight.
13:57 jonathan whiteknight: First, good news: I've got sub calls with :call_sig working awesome in Rakudo so far, it appears. :-)
13:58 whiteknight w00t
13:58 jonathan whiteknight: Bad news: :call_sig + :method is epic fial
13:58 whiteknight really? that bad huh?
13:58 jonathan We fail in IMCC when compiling.
13:58 jonathan With:
13:58 jonathan :call_sig must be the first and only parameter
13:58 pmichaud_ good morning, #parrot
13:58 whiteknight ah yes, I knew that stupid code would cause problems
13:58 jonathan pmichaud_: oh hai I patched PCT ;-)
13:58 pmichaud_ to add :call_sig ?
13:58 whiteknight jonathan: I needed to fix that anyway
13:58 jonathan pmichaud_: Indeedy.
13:59 pmichaud_ I'll take a look.
13:59 jonathan whiteknight: OK. I have tuits to do it.
13:59 jonathan whiteknight: And am quite happy to. I was looking more some kinda direction on it.
13:59 whiteknight jonathan: those semantic checks in IMCC need to disappear and get moved into src/call/args.c:fill_params instead
13:59 jonathan I'm guessing that we want to not bother with 'self' being extracted if we have :call_sig?
14:00 jonathan Or do we want to extract self anyway?
14:00 whiteknight I think what we need to do is add :call_sig as just another option in the parameter list and not limit to just one param
14:00 Coke (if you're talking about :method and :call_sig, don't forget about :vtable. =-)
14:00 whiteknight so we will extract self and anything else
14:00 Coke wouldn't extracting self conflict with letting call_sig manage it?
14:01 Coke <- guessing
14:01 jonathan Coke: It may not be so bad.
14:02 jonathan whiteknight: I need to nom lunch now, I'll have a go at patching this up.
14:02 Coke question about all the "please test" tickets on RT; I wonder if those aren't better handled via a trac wiki page.
14:02 jonathan (e.g. after lunch)
14:02 whiteknight jonathan: okay, awesome. Let me know if you need any info
14:03 jonathan whiteknight: Thanks.
14:03 jonathan And whiteknight++ for doing the bits that are done so far :-)
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14:09 whiteknight Coke++
14:12 whiteknight joined #parrot
14:13 whiteknight something is up with the slice opcode?
14:14 moritz whiteknight: it's not tested anywhere
14:14 whiteknight oh, okay
14:15 moritz and concerns where raised if it still makes sense (see backlog :)
14:18 whiteknight I don't see a slice opcode
14:19 moritz it's mentioned in t/op/01-parse_ops.t for example
14:19 moritz maybe that's a fossile?
14:19 moritz if so, why doesn't taht test fail?
14:24 whiteknight maybe I'm just not seeing it
14:27 Austin Whiteknight: It's not there. But the vtable functions for it are still laying about.
14:27 Austin And it still shows up in the docs for e.g., FPA
14:31 whiteknight gotcha
14:34 Coke ISTR slices being removed.
14:35 * Coke hurls https://trac.parrot.org/parrot/ticket/372
14:35 Coke but that was removing a PMC, not an op.
14:36 dalek rakudo: f8fb41b | (Kyle Hasselbacher)++ | Test.pm:
14:36 dalek rakudo: [Test.pm] Teach is_deeply how to compare Bool
14:36 dalek rakudo: review: http://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/f​8fb41b213c6703a9b080a1b5d05ac67b66dddbf
14:38 pmichaud_ istr slices being removed also
14:38 pmichaud_ at least that was the general sense of where we're headed
14:44 dalek nqp-rx: ff564c6 | pmichaud++ | build/PARROT_REVISION:
14:44 dalek nqp-rx: Bump PARROT_REVISION.
14:44 dalek nqp-rx: review: http://github.com/perl6/nqp-rx/commit/f​f564c6c9a74355584ffa6e67e29e61493254e77
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14:44 raaggh hi,
14:45 dalek lua: dec6dce | fperrad++ |  (3 files):
14:45 dalek lua: add pasttype : callmethod
14:45 dalek lua: review: http://github.com/fperrad/lua/commit/de​c6dcead80edc156be60fe6fbfa59961cbb479f
14:45 whiteknight hello raaggh
14:47 raaggh I'm looking for javascript ecma VM
14:49 * Coke checkes the wiki...
14:50 * moritz doesn't remember any recent activity around a js compiler for parrot
14:50 raaggh I think I need "grammar" file ? no ?
14:51 Coke http://code.google.com/p/parrotjs/
14:51 particle raaggh: are you looking to create one, or use an existing one?
14:51 Coke but that's old.
14:52 raaggh @particle : use an existing one... i'm not very skilled
14:53 bluescreen joined #parrot
14:53 Coke pmichaud_: I left you a message (for pmichaud)
14:53 particle raaggh: there has been some preliminary work done on javascript for parrot, but nothing production-ready
14:54 raaggh @particle : I can help...
14:55 particle ok, then coke's link is a good start
14:55 moritz this is IRC, not twitter - no need to prepend nicknames with an @
14:56 Coke but it's not a problem. =-)
14:56 particle raaggh: however, it seems the parrotjs project has been untouched for more than a year.  i suggest you contact the author for a commit bit, if you're interested in making it work with current parrot
14:56 particle we can help you
14:57 raaggh particle :thanks
14:57 dalek TT #1158 created by particle++: t/op/01-parse_ops.t: figure out how to test parsing of pmc constant ...
14:57 whiteknight how do I make a branch on github?
14:57 Coke wow, particle, thanks for migrating that ticket!
14:57 particle um, dalek?
14:57 purl dalek is #parrot's spammy little rss bot or (see: dalek plugins)
14:57 Coke =-)
14:57 Austin You the owner?
14:57 whiteknight Austin: yes
14:58 whiteknight I want to make a branch for Matrixy
14:58 Austin Push it.
14:58 purl Oh!
14:58 Coke do you want a branch, or do you want to fork?
14:58 particle coke: did you migrate that?
14:58 Coke particle: yes.
14:58 moritz git push origin $yourbranch
14:58 whiteknight Coke: not sure I know the difference
14:58 Coke fork is "my copy of your project". branch is in your own project.
14:58 Coke fork is another downstream copy, basically.
14:58 whiteknight then branch
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14:59 whiteknight moritz: do I need to do anything special on github before I push?
14:59 Austin Like "I think parrot should just go ahead and switch to C++. Then we could get refcounted pointers!" would be a fork.
15:00 moritz whiteknight: no
15:00 Coke RT : a gross of tickets.
15:00 Coke (btw, tickets with only the single original post are really easy to transfer over. =-)
15:02 raaggh byebye...
15:02 nopaste "Austin" at 98.235.55.43 pasted "Here's some bash goodness to make 'less' a little better - parses filename:line# into less +line# filename" (22 lines) at http://nopaste.snit.ch/18492
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15:21 whiteknight moritz: git push origin <branchname> didn't work
15:21 whiteknight error: src refspec newbranch does not match any.
15:21 whiteknight error failed to push some refs to ...
15:22 moritz whiteknight: seems like you didn't create the newbranch branch locally
15:22 whiteknight okay, so how do I do that?
15:22 moritz so try  git checkout -b newbranch  first
15:23 whiteknight ah, okay. That did it
15:23 whiteknight thanks
15:23 moritz (but don't name it newbranch, of course :-)
15:23 whiteknight of course
15:23 whiteknight moritz++
15:25 dalek nqp-rx: 9f4cd36 | pmichaud++ | build/Makefile.in:
15:25 dalek nqp-rx: Add 'nqp-self' target, to test-build a self-hosted copy of NQP.
15:25 dalek nqp-rx: Works for building its own parser.
15:25 dalek nqp-rx: review: http://github.com/perl6/nqp-rx/commit/9​f4cd36ded50548c97b79bb98ba17695b72d197d
15:25 dalek nqp-rx: 42e99a3 | pmichaud++ | src/NQP/ (2 files):
15:25 dalek nqp-rx: [nqp]:  Don't rely on module BEGIN semantics anymore.
15:25 dalek nqp-rx: review: http://github.com/perl6/nqp-rx/commit/4​2e99a3f79077389fe59c37e6eed201bfb2236e3
15:25 dalek nqp-rx: 42ff618 | pmichaud++ | src/NQP/Actions.pm:
15:25 dalek nqp-rx: [nqp]:  Bootstrap intermediate step
15:25 dalek nqp-rx: Because sub definitions change from package to lexical in the
15:25 dalek nqp-rx: new version of nqp, move the private subs to the top so they
15:25 dalek nqp-rx: work in both old and new versions of nqp.  nqp-self target
15:25 dalek nqp-rx: passes all nqp tests.
15:25 dalek nqp-rx: review: http://github.com/perl6/nqp-rx/commit/4​2ff618797c3ce0769c65e4c1cae6c4621339fb0
15:25 dalek nqp-rx: 72b2520 | pmichaud++ | build/Makefile.in:
15:25 dalek nqp-rx: [nqp]:  Self-generate actions for nqp-self target.
15:25 dalek nqp-rx: review: http://github.com/perl6/nqp-rx/commit/7​2b2520e1ca27c2653fcc2acc14667fd7d44df8c
15:27 whiteknight okay, now how do I delete a branch?
15:27 Coke oooh, I know.
15:27 Coke http://github.com/guides/remove-a-remote-branch
15:29 Coke pmichaud_: should nqp-rx be telling us how to checkout the perl6 tests?
15:33 dalek parrot: r42157 | jonathan++ | trunk/compilers/imcc/pcc.c:
15:33 dalek parrot: Make IMCC think it's OK to have a :call_sig in a method.
15:33 dalek parrot: review: https://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/42157/
15:41 pmichaud_ Coke: probably not.
15:42 * pmichaud_ fixes.
15:47 jonathan whiteknight: oooh, I might just have made it work \o/
15:48 * jonathan even wrote tests :-)
15:48 dalek nqp-rx: d9b4687 | pmichaud++ | Configure.pl:
15:48 dalek nqp-rx: Remove bogus note about Perl 6 spectests (Coke++).
15:48 dalek nqp-rx: review: http://github.com/perl6/nqp-rx/commit/d​9b4687025dda137dd34265a163161693103bb9b
15:49 whiteknight jonathan++
15:50 fperrad joined #parrot
15:51 jonathan whiteknight: committed, feel free to improve, there are tests to help make sure it stays working. :-)
15:51 jonathan And hopefully this unblocks me moving Rakudo over to this.
15:51 whiteknight awesome
15:52 dalek parrot: r42158 | jonathan++ | trunk (2 files):
15:52 dalek parrot: [core] First cut at making :call_sig work with methods. The comment about the overall call_sig implementation being experimental very much stands for this too - I suspect we could do it better - but it works and, importantly, passes all of the new tests for it.
15:52 dalek parrot: review: https://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/42158/
15:52 Coke pmichaud_: I am eager to attempt to switch tcl over.
15:53 Coke jonathan: if the whole thing is experimental, perhaps a notice in DEP*.pod
15:53 Coke ?
15:53 jonathan Coke: No, the syntax is not experimental.
15:53 purl okay, jonathan.
15:54 jonathan Coke: Just the current implementation in args.c.
15:54 Coke k.
15:54 jonathan Coke: That is, I expect it'll end up being handled a little differently in args.c
15:54 Coke that's fine, yah, i was worried about user-facing.
15:54 jonathan But I think there's pretty wide consensus that :call_sig - the PIR-facing bit - is here to stay.
15:54 whiteknight yes, here to stay
15:54 jonathan Coke: Sure - I wasn't clear.
15:55 whiteknight ! [rejected] master -> master (non-fast forward)
15:55 whiteknight what does that mean?
15:55 purl You're a nut! You're crazy in the coconut!
15:56 whiteknight and how do I make that message go away?
15:56 jonathan whiteknight: Were you doing a "git push origin master"?
15:56 whiteknight just a git push on my new branch
15:56 jonathan whiteknight: Are you in another branch?
15:56 jonathan e.g. not master?
15:56 jonathan If so, you want
15:56 jonathan git push origin branchname
15:57 whiteknight I am in a branch locally, and am pushing to a branch on github
15:57 jonathan Yes, then I think you want origin branchname, not origin master.
15:57 whiteknight so I just did "git push", and it pushed all my changes successfully, but then it spit out that error too
15:57 jonathan Oh, oddness.
15:57 whiteknight great
15:57 whiteknight my first command on my first git branch and it's oddness
15:58 jonathan whiteknight: Yeah, "great" is how git makes me feel too a bunch of the time. :-(
15:58 whiteknight all I need to do is learn the incantations. My big problem is a huge dirth of helpful documentation
15:58 jonathan Doing "git push origin branchname" spits out that error?
15:58 whiteknight i don't know. I have no more commits to push right now
15:59 jonathan omfg.
15:59 PerlJam whiteknight: the remote master has changes that need to be merged with your local master, ergo the push to the master branch was rejected
15:59 jonathan My very first patch to switch Rakudo over to using call_sig not only now compiles, but passes all sanity tests!
15:59 whiteknight PerlJam: and what do all those words mean that you just said?
15:59 whiteknight jonathan++
15:59 dalek nqp-rx: 36a6064 | pmichaud++ |  (5 files):
15:59 dalek nqp-rx: [bootstrap]:  Add stage0 versions of HLLCompiler, NQP.
15:59 dalek nqp-rx: review: http://github.com/perl6/nqp-rx/commit/3​6a60644400b9d66d1fc8372f17719f0813b9da0
16:00 PerlJam whiteknight: do a "git pull" on the master branch before you push
16:00 whiteknight for instance, I don't know what a "remote master" or a "local master" are, or why I would be pushing to one of them
16:00 whiteknight I thought I was on a branch
16:00 jonathan whiteknight: The benchmarks for call-heavy stuff also show that we've gained back some from this too :-)
16:00 Austin whiteknight: You're on a branch called "master" by default.
16:00 Tene jonathan: but does it pass them faster?
16:00 PerlJam whiteknight: you're always on a branch, just that sometimes the branch is called master
16:01 whiteknight okay, I did a "git checkout -b" and now it says I am on a different branch
16:01 jonathan Tene: make test did pass a bit faster, yes.
16:01 whiteknight so I'm not on master
16:01 moritz PerlJam: not quite true :-)
16:01 Austin okay.
16:01 PerlJam moritz: don't confuse him with facts  :)
16:01 moritz PerlJam: in general after a git checkout $sha you're not on a branch
16:02 particle whiteknight: git branch -l # shows you your branches, including current branch
16:02 theory joined #parrot
16:02 whiteknight particle: okay. That's very helpful. I am on a branch, not master
16:04 fperrad joined #parrot
16:04 Austin whiteknight: now, make a change and commit it.
16:04 Austin Add a space or something.
16:04 whiteknight okay. made a commit
16:05 whiteknight now push?
16:05 Austin push it, real good!
16:05 whiteknight what, exactly, do I type?
16:05 Austin git push?
16:05 purl git push is much faster than svn ci or svk push
16:05 Tene git thrust
16:05 whiteknight ! [rejected] master -> master (non-fast forward)
16:06 whiteknight but the commit shows up on github anyway
16:06 Austin You've got a master/master conflict. But this is a branch.
16:06 whiteknight okay. More important question: how the hell do I make that go away?
16:06 Tene whiteknight: 'git push' is trying to push commits from all branches.
16:06 PerlJam whiteknight: git checkout master; git pull;  git push  # Whatever changes you've made to master are now pushed
16:07 Tene whiteknight: git checkout master; git pull; what perljam said;
16:07 Austin Resolve the conflict. ^^ What PJ said, except there will probably be a merge.
16:07 whiteknight "Everything up-to-date"
16:07 PerlJam pull == fetch + merge
16:07 * PerlJam assumes Austin meant conflict
16:08 whiteknight no conflict, no merge
16:08 * Austin nods.
16:08 Austin So, push it back.
16:08 cotto_work someone should add all the fetch variants to ops.num
16:08 mikehh All tests PASS (pre/post-config, smoke (#29470), fulltest) at r42157 - Ubuntu 9.10 RC amd64
16:09 davidfetter joined #parrot
16:11 Austin Whiteknight, where's the remote repo?
16:17 fperrad joined #parrot
16:24 cotto_work whiteknight++ for a great blog post and a not-so-sneaky recruiting tool for Parrot
16:25 cotto_work bold test
16:25 Austin It worked.
16:25 purl Of course it worked
16:25 * moritz waits for the blinking colors
16:25 cotto_work ENOHTML
16:25 Andy_ joined #parrot
16:25 Austin reversed?
16:25 Austin Nope.
16:26 cotto_work looks like inversed colors to me
16:26 cotto_work ‏backwards testfds
16:26 moritz reversed, yes
16:27 Austin Hmm. Still black on white here, but you guys see it? That's weird.
16:27 whiteknight see what?
16:28 moritz it's black on white here, but the usual text is white on black :-)
16:28 Austin Moritz, what's your client?
16:28 moritz Austin: irssi
16:29 Austin k
16:29 moritz (irssi in screen over ssh on xterm :-)
16:29 whiteknight ETOOCOMPLICATED
16:31 jonathan Heh. It wasn't until moritz wrote that, that I realized I'm doing irssi in screen over ssh on windows. :-)
16:31 cotto_work jonathan, throw in a couple of nested VMs and you're golden
16:32 moritz whiteknight: most of the time everything just works[tm], so it's not too complicated
16:33 whiteknight any time your application contains that many acronyms, it's too complicated
16:34 whiteknight I'm using Chatzilla, in chatzilla over internet on Windows
16:35 jonathan moritz: It is amazing that despite sounding so convoluted, it's actually quite convenient!
16:41 einstein I just added some extra documentation to ticket #1020
16:42 whiteknight awesome
16:43 cotto_work einstein, great.  Thanks.
16:43 einstein I hope it makes things a little bit more clear
16:45 einstein I think I also will make wiki page for it some where next week
16:48 dalek lua: 82795f3 | fperrad++ | src/lib/luaaux.pir:
16:48 dalek lua: fix lua_findtable when modname contains dot
16:48 dalek lua: review: http://github.com/fperrad/lua/commit/82​795f3a97cb33fa98758a3738bf8ee5f0c3aa39
16:49 cotto_work einstein, I was about to copy/paste your attachment into a wiki page.
16:50 einstein ok if you can do that then it would be fine :)
16:50 cotto_work What'd be a good page name?
16:51 cotto_work MakeEveryPMCAnObject ?
16:51 einstein yes
16:53 einstein that is what is ment to do :) + it makes the isa and typeof op work better/finer
16:54 whiteknight unifying underlying representations is probably a very good idea
16:55 einstein :)
16:55 whiteknight I'm not endorsing any particular strategy, but I think the goal is good
16:55 whiteknight I need to read all your new docs, einstein
16:55 cotto_work done, though it's mostly a direct copy/paste
16:55 jonathan Apart from making Parrot a more difficult target for languages that are explicitly spec'd as supporting multiple representations.
16:55 jonathan *cough*Perl 6*cough*
16:56 einstein whiteknight: yes I know :)
16:56 einstein i have to eat
16:56 einstein afk
16:56 dalek tracwiki: v1 | cotto++ | MakeEveryPMCAnObject
16:56 dalek tracwiki: initial version, probably needs lots for formatting fixes
16:56 dalek tracwiki: https://trac.parrot.org/parrot/wiki/MakeE​veryPMCAnObject?version=1&amp;action=diff
16:57 whiteknight jonathan: I'm talking about Parrot native. If Parrot had one representation that was low-level and flexible, other languages would be able to build their own stuff on top
16:57 jonathan whiteknight: My point is more representations that would come from outside of Parrot.
16:58 whiteknight yes
16:58 jonathan That is, what if you wanted to have, say, a GObject and just wrap it up in a PMC?
16:58 whiteknight I don't know really, I haven't put a lot of thought into this area
16:58 jonathan You'd not want other types of object thinking they knew about its internal layout.
16:59 jonathan Right, I kinda had, but apparently the result was something that you couldn't imagine anyone thinking was a good idea. :-)
16:59 jonathan Right now we didn't embrace either way, so ended up with something less clean.
17:00 jonathan I'd really rather we thought about how to do interaction of different object layouts though.
17:00 jonathan Even if we do unify PMCs and Parrot objects.
17:00 jonathan I'm not saying that latter part is a bad idea. The two aren't mutually exclusive.
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17:02 jonathan So in that sense, I'm not opposed to einstein++'s thoughts on that, I'm just trying to keep us from missing a slightly bigger picture.
17:02 kurahaupo joined #parrot
17:02 whiteknight okay, that's more what I'm talking about. Making Object more like normal built-in PMC types is a good thing I think for a variety of reasons
17:03 whiteknight but I don't necessarily think that we only need one representation
17:03 jonathan Right, but the proxy infrastructure we have in place now is there because PMCs and Objects have a differnet underlying representation.
17:03 whiteknight I'm hard pressed to think of a reason for another, but I won't rule it out
17:04 dalek nqp-rx: dc737ba | pmichaud++ |  (3 files):
17:04 dalek nqp-rx: [nqp]:  Per suggestion from TimToady++, switch PIR::pirop to pir::pirop .
17:04 dalek nqp-rx: review: http://github.com/perl6/nqp-rx/commit/d​c737ba1259aca9b2578eb910a2dc748c615dbbd
17:07 cotto_work that'll help save my shift key from wearing out
17:10 whiteknight einstein's proposal actually looks like it might provide a performance win in some cases
17:10 whiteknight although I'm having some trouble seeing why certain things are the way they are
17:11 whiteknight I think it would also change some semantics in a non-trivial way
17:27 payload joined #parrot
17:35 mikehh All tests PASS (pre/post-config, smoke (#29471), fulltest) at r42158 - Ubuntu 9.10 RC amd64
17:42 dalek tracwiki: v18 | kurahaupo++ | ArrayTasklist
17:42 dalek tracwiki: questions about "Array" PMC; added RT links
17:42 dalek tracwiki: https://trac.parrot.org/parrot/wiki/Ar​rayTasklist?version=18&amp;action=diff
17:43 Tene whiteknight: I was reading through some of the IO stuff again last night.  Looks like I'm starting to get interested in it again.
17:43 Tene I'll probably be trying to work on a Select and Pipe PMC this week.
17:44 whiteknight Tene: that would be awesome
17:45 Coke cotto_work: (all fetch variants) not for experimental ops.
17:45 cotto_work ok
17:50 Tene whiteknight: I remember you saying you planned to be very busy... think you'll be able to watch out for my commits and repair or revert anything too brain-damaged?
17:51 Coke botsnack?
17:51 purl :)
17:52 jonathan Tene++ # yay, those would be great to have :-)
17:52 whiteknight Tene: of course!
17:52 whiteknight I'll help too when I'm able
17:54 Austin woo-hoo! The check is in the mail.
17:54 Tene Okay, depending on what the gfs have planned for me tonight, I might be able to get started today.
17:59 Coke ^_O
17:59 whiteknight "gfs" more then one?
18:01 Tene yeah.
18:02 * whiteknight has a million follow up questions, but thinks better about it
18:02 dalek nqp-rx: 92cc0bf | pmichaud++ | src/ (4 files):
18:02 dalek nqp-rx: [nqp]:  Unify <noun> with <term>, per latest STD.pm changes.  TimToady++
18:02 dalek nqp-rx: review: http://github.com/perl6/nqp-rx/commit/9​2cc0bfcfa75895ed66f61376a8ef2b4ce1b4ff3
18:04 Tene whiteknight: I'd be glad to answer any questions in /msg
18:04 whiteknight ok
18:05 joeri joined #parrot
18:12 dalek tracwiki: v2 | jessevdam++ | MakeEveryPMCAnObject
18:12 dalek tracwiki: make up
18:12 dalek tracwiki: https://trac.parrot.org/parrot/wiki/MakeE​veryPMCAnObject?version=2&amp;action=diff
18:14 einstein I just have added some make up to the wiki page, does any body have questions?
18:14 cotto_work einstein, some headings would be good too
18:14 einstein ok yes i will add them
18:16 dalek rakudo: 6a43a35 | jonathan++ |  (9 files):
18:16 dalek rakudo: Switch to using :call_sig for argument handling. Wins back a little performance and gets us positioned almost ready to implement nested sigs. whiteknight++ for :call_sig Parrot work. Please note: PARROT_REVISION bumped.
18:16 dalek rakudo: review: http://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/6​a43a35b11b6e949052980daf48ec7080ef4ac23
18:16 cotto_work Mmmm.  External dependence on experimental features.
18:16 cotto_work (though jonathan already knows that)
18:16 whiteknight the feature isn't experimental, it's the lousy implementation that is
18:17 jonathan cotto_work: What whiteknight said. That feature is not going away. :-)
18:18 jonathan whiteknight: I'm not in a hurry for it, but caller side :call_sig would also be sweet. ;-)
18:19 whiteknight jonathan: I tried adding that and ran into huge problems and segfaults and stuff
18:19 jonathan whiteknight: oh gee
18:19 jonathan They sound un-fun.
18:19 whiteknight well, I was being ambitious and trying to allow any arbitrary type to be used
18:20 whiteknight if only CallSignatures and polymorphs of it are used, that should be fine
18:20 jonathan whiteknight: Ah.
18:20 whiteknight a "does callsignature" role might be handy in weeding out bozo types
18:20 jonathan As far as I can see it, the "trouble" is that there's lots of interface-breaking stuff in the binder.
18:20 jonathan (e.g. in args.c)
18:21 jonathan Taht's fine - it wins speed for the common case.
18:21 jonathan But it does mean that we essentially need to work out some way for non-CallSignature thingies to operate.
18:21 jonathan Again, this isn't a huge problem.
18:21 whiteknight for instance, an RPA would be great to pass if you were only using positional parameters and no returns
18:21 whiteknight or a hash for only named parameters and no returns
18:22 whiteknight we need to refactor return handling before we can talk about using other types for returns as well
18:22 jonathan whiteknight: Well, perhaps...I'm quite happy that we have to support a slightly "fatter" interface though.
18:22 jonathan Than just an RPA or Hash gives.
18:23 jonathan That doesn't seem unreasonable.
18:23 jonathan It'd just be nice to know exactly what the interface is.
18:23 whiteknight I like thinking about opportunities for optimizing
18:23 jonathan At the moment though I mostly only want it because I am getting a CallSigature in, want to delegate with the exact same args, and can't just pass the same thing along but have to pick it apart instead.
18:23 cotto_work might that not be premature?
18:24 jonathan I don't actually have any need of a custom CallSignature right now.
18:24 jonathan So an initial impl that restricted to just passing on a CallSignature is enough for me.
18:24 whiteknight is P6 going to write it's own subclass?
18:24 whiteknight or can it use CallSignature directly?
18:25 einstein I have to go, bye
18:25 cotto_work bye einstein
18:25 dalek tracwiki: v3 | jessevdam++ | MakeEveryPMCAnObject
18:25 dalek tracwiki: add headings
18:25 dalek tracwiki: https://trac.parrot.org/parrot/wiki/MakeE​veryPMCAnObject?version=3&amp;action=diff
18:26 jonathan whiteknight: There's only one bit of the spec that might make me need to subclass CallSignature.
18:26 jonathan whiteknight: However I'm hoping that bit of the spec dies in a fire. :-)
18:26 whiteknight all it takes is one bit...
18:27 jonathan Yeah. But I actually think that one bit is a bad idea.
18:27 jonathan Something that was a bad idea for similar reasons actually got tossed a week or two ago.
18:27 jonathan So I'm kinda hoping this bit will go the same way. Not least because it carries extra problems...
18:28 whiteknight what's the spec?
18:28 purl rumour has it the spec is clear
18:29 jonathan whiteknight: There's a bit in S06 about dealing with multiple named parameters of the same name.
18:29 jonathan And how it means different things depending on what you bind to.
18:29 whiteknight urg
18:29 jonathan Meaning that we would have to preserve all of the name-value pairs.
18:29 whiteknight I would disallow that in a heartbeat
18:29 jonathan Yes, I'm not fond of it for many reasons.
18:30 jonathan Also it interacts weirdly with type checking, depending on how you do it.
18:30 cotto_work That's really odd.
18:32 jonathan :-)
18:35 * jonathan -> shop, bbiab
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18:48 japhb nothingmuch blogged about having his perl5 site_lib under git control: http://blog.woobling.org/200​9/10/versioned-sitelib.html ... I've been thinking of something similar for Plumage as an option for doing the grunt work of uninstalls (after dependency changes had been dealt with).  Any thoughts on the sanity (or lack thereof) of such an option?
18:49 Tene japhb: adds a dep on git.
18:49 japhb Tene, sure, but not a required dep.
18:50 Tene Well...
18:50 japhb I'm not sure there's a "correct" way to do uninstall without either depending on some external tool, or recreating one.  I don't want to do the latter, and I don't want to force a dep, so I'm thinking uninstall is something a plugin provides ....
18:50 Tene Plumage needs to have enough information to do uninstalls anyway.  It should know every file that it installs.
18:50 japhb Tene, how?
18:51 japhb Sure, for manifest-based installs, yes.
18:51 japhb But what about when it's just calling 'make install'?
18:51 Tene install to a prefix
18:51 japhb Tene, that doesn't fix the problem unless you do prefix-per-project ...
18:52 japhb in which case library searching gets "interesting"
18:52 PerlJam japhb: +1 for optional git tracking of files.
18:52 fperrad joined #parrot
18:52 Tene Yes, exactly.  You mkdir a new dir, install to it, and then move the files from there.
18:52 Tene "Make a reasonable directory structure in the prefix I'm assigning you, and then I'll put it in the right place."
18:53 moritz that doesn't work with parrot, for example
18:53 japhb Tene, I'm not sure that works with the "installable" thing for PBC/fakecutable
18:53 moritz because it hardcodes paths to its files
18:53 bacek joined #parrot
18:53 japhb what moritz said
18:53 japhb (Or I would have done that.  :-)
18:53 japhb If I had an API to swizzle those hardcoded paths, maybe.
18:54 treed With Debian stuff, you ./configure -prefix=/usr
18:54 japhb I don't want to go hex editing manually.
18:54 treed but then make install DEST_ROOT=foo
18:54 Tene That's... unfortunate.
18:54 treed I mean, when packaging.
18:54 japhb treed, right, but when you build debian packages, you're often doing so in a chroot.
18:54 treed So that hardcoded paths DRTR, but you can still pack the installed files into an appropriate tree.
18:54 treed I don't.
18:54 treed Really?
18:55 treed That's debuild.
18:55 treed Not everyone uses that.
18:55 japhb true
18:55 treed I just run dpkg-buildpackage
18:55 treed or fakeroot debian/rules binary if I'm feeling lazy
18:56 treed Really, you just need the Makefile to have an optional prepending path.
18:56 treed and then copy the files to $(DEST_ROOT)$(PREFIX)
18:56 treed so you end up with foo/usr/bin/bar in the case above
18:56 japhb The other problem there is that it assumes a proper debian/rules ... which in parrot parlance would mean Plumage would have to patch all the modules that don't natively support prefix != DEST_ROOT
18:57 treed Seems a little naive to assume that you can permit any given package to just install via make install without any interference whatsoever on Plumage's part.
18:58 treed And have it not cause issues, I mean.
18:58 japhb Well ... most of the parrot-specific modules are pulling the proper PREFIX from parrot_config, so PREFIX is well-supported right now.  DEST_ROOT, not.
18:59 japhb I mean, we can certainly make this change to parrot ... and distro packagers might like that ... but it's not what we have *now*.
18:59 treed Well, the other option is to have no idea what was installed by the package?
18:59 Tene japhb: there's also an argument for "That's wrong, we won't support that, you need to make it work better"
18:59 japhb treed, ... or to capture it from noting the changes to the FS, as by git, for instance.
18:59 Tene Decide what we need now, before we're stuck supporting something Less Than Awesome.
19:00 treed You want to scan the entire FS everytime you do a package operation?
19:00 Tene japhb: assuming 'make install' only installs to the PREFIX
19:00 japhb Tene, no argument there.  I am just playing devil's advocate.
19:00 japhb treed, just parrot's PREFIX.
19:00 treed Still a lot of files.
19:00 japhb yes, could be.
19:00 treed And what if something else changed aside from what you were doing?
19:00 japhb That's why I brought this up ... I wanted more angles than I was currently seeing.
19:01 treed Some other process changes a file, and Plumage assumes that it was part of the package install.
19:01 treed Could be messy.
19:01 japhb treed ... you check before and after the install.  If someone changes a file *during* the install, you're right, you're screwed.
19:02 treed I think the best solution overall is to make whatever adjustments you need to know definitively what files a package installed.
19:02 japhb OK, so from this angle, it certainly sounds like making parrot be DEST_ROOT friendly would be very useful.
19:02 Tene japhb: we really need a way to say "put your files in this directory here."
19:02 Tene yes
19:02 treed Also, has the possibility that two or more plumage packages (feathers, are they?) wants to use the same filename?
19:02 treed want
19:02 treed Having actual manifests could help a lot with figuring out that situation.
19:02 bluescreen joined #parrot
19:02 japhb treed, I haven't even started on that problem.
19:03 Tene afk
19:03 japhb Because we've got the whole Perl 6 versioning and authorities issue to deal with
19:04 japhb The whole way that libraries are loading in Parrot is going to have to change.  At the very least, the directory searching has to be pluggable by the HLL.
19:08 Andy joined #parrot
19:11 japhb Who understands the hardcoding in installed parrot libs/bins?
19:18 japhb Don't all raise your hand at once ...
19:22 japhb Ooh, I can just tell I'm in for some "real fun" on this one.  :-)
19:22 whiteknight joined #parrot
19:23 whiteknight hello again
19:23 japhb o/
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19:37 darbelo purl: msg japhb decnum-dynpmcs provides a make uninstall target, how would plumage handle that.
19:37 purl Message for japhb stored.
19:41 japhb darbelo, originally that's what I thought plumage would depend on.  Then I realized that a module may not have the information to do a proper uninstall of itself without breaking other things.  Plus, if someone clears out their plumage cache (the repo checkouts, tarballs, etc.) how do I find the correct version of the uninstall?  I could just save off the Makefile for later ... but what if the project uses recursive make?
19:42 japhb Uninstall is just a world of hurt, and I don't have a good answer for it yet.
19:42 japhb But I'm open to all suggestions and arguments ....
19:43 japhb Also, perfect is the enemy of good, but people get really annoyed about uninstall not being perfect.  Which in itself is a bit of pressure, shall we say.
19:44 darbelo japhb: Have 'manifest installs' and a manifest-builder
19:45 darbelo plumage only does manifest install. Everything else passes through the "manifest-builder" and gives us a nice manifest we can uninstall from.
19:46 japhb darbelo, how does the manifest builder work ...?  Treed and tene seem to support the idea of using DEST_ROOT to do a two-pass install -- let the project do its own normal install to DEST_ROOT (which is a temporary directory), and then plumage does a second pass to build a manifest and do the "real" install
19:46 japhb Are you agreeing with Tene and treed's idea?
19:46 japhb (Just to make sure there isn't a detail I'm missing)
19:47 darbelo japhb: Close to that. We install to a fake dir, and generate a Manifest. One time operation. We keep the manifest arround and use *that* to install.
19:48 darbelo If our manifest builder turns out to be too dumb for a particular project, fine, the can provide a correct manifest for us.
19:49 japhb OK.  I think we're all in agreement.
19:49 japhb Tene, treed, anything to add?
19:49 Tene japhb: yes.
19:49 japhb shoot
19:49 Tene japhb: I have a pumpkin on my living room floor.
19:49 Tene That's all.
19:49 japhb LOL
19:49 japhb nice
19:50 japhb Are you planning to eviscerate it with extreme prejudice?
19:50 Tene relevant to plumage?  'sec...
19:50 darbelo Tene: That mean you do all the patching, right?
19:50 Tene something like "i'll be rather upset if we can't build RPMS etc. from plumage modules"
19:51 japhb (Treehouse of Horror)++ for having The Grand Pumpkin go on a killing spree when it sees what we've been doing to all the other pumpkins ....
19:51 japhb Tene, No worries.  I think we may end up doing half the work for the packagers, just because we have to.
19:52 treed Similarly for debs here.
19:52 japhb But I will do my best to make it so we don't do things in a way that is incompatible for the packagers.
19:52 darbelo "plumage rmp rakudo"?
19:52 darbelo s/rmp/rpm/
19:52 Tene and, um, whatever the package format is for windows.
19:52 japhb darbelo, eventually I'd expect yes, since that suggestion keeps coming up.  :-)
19:52 japhb Tene, MSI?
19:52 Tene isn't it, like, MSI or something?
19:53 Tene I'm making shit up.  I don't really know anything about windows.
19:53 treed A deb, BTW, is basically an ar file containing a tarball of that DEST_ROOT installation, and another with control files and installation scripts
19:53 treed So automated debs from something like that should be pretty simple.
19:53 treed There are .msi files.
19:53 treed Which are kinda like packages.
19:53 treed But I'm not sure they handle dependencies.
19:53 japhb IIRC, MSI was Microsoft going "Oh dear god people, we thought we could leave install packaging to people who were supposed "experts" at installation programs.  But it turns out you all suck, so now we have to do your work for you.  SIGH."
19:54 treed I believe they released some Shared Source tools to produce .msi files.
19:54 Tene afk teaching
19:54 * Tene passes the pumpkin to treed.
19:54 * treed places it on his head like a hat.
19:55 japhb While I've got people around ...
19:55 * darbelo runs away
19:55 japhb I've got two ideas in extending the "nouns" that plumage can handle.
19:56 japhb First, instead of just a project name, you can specify a path to a metadata file, and plumage will skip the lookup and directly use that.
19:56 japhb I think that's just pure win, no real downside.
19:56 darbelo +1
19:56 purl 1
19:57 NotFound japhb: great
19:57 Tene +1
19:57 purl 1
19:57 japhb Second, I was thinking of a magic noun saying "I'm sitting in the project repo, just install the thing I'm sitting in."  This would be for the active developers of the project, like pmichaud_ working on rakudo or whiteknight working on matrixy
19:58 whiteknight +1
19:58 purl 1
19:58 whiteknight 1+1
19:58 purl 2
19:58 NotFound japhb: I was about to suggest the same
19:58 whiteknight (4 +4)/(4+4)
19:58 purl 1
19:58 darbelo Inf/NaN
19:58 whiteknight (4/4) + (4/4)
19:58 purl 2
19:58 japhb Good, sounds like agreement there.
19:58 treed +1
19:58 purl 1
19:59 dalek lua: e0819c5 | fperrad++ | src/lib/luapackage.pir:
19:59 dalek lua: fix _PACKAGE
19:59 dalek lua: review: http://github.com/fperrad/lua/commit/e0​819c5db6e084df53fd0f054a44672c5ce789bb
19:59 dalek lua: 8e0fa68 | fperrad++ |  (2 files):
19:59 dalek lua: fix function require
19:59 dalek lua: review: http://github.com/fperrad/lua/commit/8e​0fa68e5bf99424e80af644820593c3efa3474f
19:59 japhb Any suggestions for the name of the magic "install this" noun?  So far my ideas are: '.' and 'this'.
19:59 NotFound installme
20:00 TimToady phone
20:00 whiteknight instalme
20:00 Tene 'pumpkin'
20:00 darbelo plumage install this
20:00 whiteknight I don;t like "phone", doesn't make sense
20:00 NotFound whiteknight: then send a cablegram
20:01 bacek Good morning
20:01 treed i like "this"
20:01 treed Assuming no-one ever wants to be able to install a package called "this".
20:01 cotto_work good morning bacek
20:01 cotto_work clock?
20:01 purl cotto_work: LAX: Wed 1:01pm PDT / CHI: Wed 3:01pm CDT / NYC: Wed 4:01pm EDT / LON: Wed 8:01pm GMT / BER: Wed 9:01pm CET / IND: Thu 1:31am IST / TOK: Thu 5:01am JST / SYD: Thu 7:01am EST /
20:02 bacek g'day cotto
20:03 japhb OK, thanks everyone
20:04 * japhb wanders off to make lunch
20:06 whiteknight joined #parrot
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20:38 japhb pmichaud_, am I reading the #perl6 backlog correctly that you essentially just have 'has $!foo' and 'make install' left to do on nqp-rx before you're ready for all of us to go crazy with it?
20:38 ash_ joined #parrot
20:38 * japhb has some heavy refactoring of Plumage to do that would be a bunch nicer if I could refactor directly into OO
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21:12 japhb For pulling "official" metadata, manually-created manifests, and so on out of a project's working dir, I'd like to specify a standard top-level subdirectory in which to find all of this (similar to a debian/ directory).  I've got two suggestions so far: metadata/ (which seems accurate but overly generic), and plumage/ , which Close seems to have picked.  I think plumage/ works fine, but anyone have any objections?
21:12 Tene none
21:22 darbelo plumage/++
21:23 darbelo japhb: Do you have any particular manifest format in mind? I can whip one up for decnum-dynpmcs in no time.
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21:32 japhb darbelo, nope, not there yet
21:33 japhb As a matter of fact, I'm just planning right now, because I've got in-laws in town, so don't have concentrated hack cycles at the moment.
21:34 japhb For manually-created manifests, there's the problem that the install directory layout will change depending on parrot version, so can't just use a raw list of paths relative to DEST_ROOT.
21:35 japhb Perhaps have a set of well known replacements, like @bin_dir@ and @lib_dir@, or what have you.
21:36 darbelo japhb: I would go for that, but maybe with another syntax.
21:36 * darbelo doesn't like @names@
21:37 darbelo But I have grown used to makfile-y $SHOUTING_NAMES
21:38 dalek nqp-rx: d8b7aae | pmichaud++ |  (5 files):
21:38 dalek nqp-rx: Refactor stage0 build.
21:38 dalek nqp-rx: review: http://github.com/perl6/nqp-rx/commit/d​8b7aae9c85b61c7a1f882574d42c621e4325933
21:38 dalek nqp-rx: e226b2b | pmichaud++ | src/Regex/Cursor-builtins.pir:
21:38 dalek nqp-rx: Update FAILGOAL to display line number of source if available.
21:38 dalek nqp-rx: review: http://github.com/perl6/nqp-rx/commit/e​226b2b87e72da834427835f24c745f5e7c73271
21:38 dalek nqp-rx: 5ccfc54 | pmichaud++ | src/ (2 files):
21:38 dalek nqp-rx: Some whitespace tweaks in prefix and postcircumfix rules.
21:38 dalek nqp-rx: review: http://github.com/perl6/nqp-rx/commit/5​ccfc54fe5615444b89fda5125e5da24b3d3e7a9
21:38 dalek nqp-rx: 8060ccf | pmichaud++ | src/NQP/Grammar.pm:
21:38 dalek nqp-rx: [nqp]:  Prevent blockoids from eating trailing whitespace.
21:38 dalek nqp-rx: review: http://github.com/perl6/nqp-rx/commit/8​060ccfd245a3202c6a41495c922e108152bbc22
21:38 dalek nqp-rx: 775500b | pmichaud++ | build/Makefile.in:
21:38 dalek nqp-rx: Fix nqp-test target.
21:38 dalek nqp-rx: review: http://github.com/perl6/nqp-rx/commit/7​75500b39dd6d913678a7e2dc3f595578e4e8010
21:38 dalek nqp-rx: 6f44564 | pmichaud++ | src/Regex/P6Regex (2 files):
21:38 dalek nqp-rx: [p6regex]:  Handle @MODIFIER initialization.
21:39 dalek nqp-rx: review: http://github.com/perl6/nqp-rx/commit/6​f445648d91bcad3c705d0b45f2ddc0d7554bde9
21:39 dalek nqp-rx: a785048 | pmichaud++ | src/HLL/Actions.pm:
21:39 dalek nqp-rx: [HLLGrammar]:  Move lexical subs to top for now.
21:39 dalek nqp-rx: review: http://github.com/perl6/nqp-rx/commit/a​785048bf3e46ad26036d5657b59ab25ebc27195
21:39 dalek nqp-rx: 5c96a9f | pmichaud++ |  (8 files):
21:39 dalek nqp-rx: Complete bootstrapping of nqp-rx.  It now builds itself entirely
21:39 dalek nqp-rx: from its own source files, and does not require NQP or PGE from
21:39 dalek nqp-rx: the Parrot repository.  It also passes all of the tests
21:39 dalek nqp-rx: (except for pod comments) from Parrot's nqp test suite.
21:39 dalek nqp-rx: review: http://github.com/perl6/nqp-rx/commit/5​c96a9fe896d6ff0762f81177c09f8ffe57b5b8d
21:40 darbelo Hmm, we don't have a nqp-rx metadata file.
21:41 darbelo I'll get that going.
21:41 Whiteknight joined #parrot
21:42 japhb darbelo, call it metadata.json
21:42 japhb Otherwise we have a chicken and egg problem trying to find it.
21:42 japhb so plumage/metadata.json
21:43 japhb darbelo, I'm not wedded to any @particular@ $SYNTAX for interpolation, btw.
21:43 darbelo japhb: I don't have a nqp-rx commit bit, I was going to stick it into plumage's metadata/
21:44 pmichaud_ japhb: you're correct, I'm pretty much down to the stage of needing 'make install'
21:44 japhb darbelo, oh, well, no problem then, nqp-rx.json is fine.  ;-)
21:45 japhb pmichaud_, EXCELLENT.
21:45 pmichaud_ I don't have 'has $!foo' yet, but it shouldn't be difficult and I know how to do it
21:45 japhb great.
21:45 japhb do you have closures?
21:45 pmichaud_ I don't know, actually.  :-)
21:46 japhb (Would make the syntax for try() way less horrid, for one thing)
21:46 pmichaud_ I could use a test for closures.
21:46 japhb But closures would be Dang Useful in a number of places.
21:46 pmichaud_ tests would make closures happen faster.
21:46 japhb heh
21:46 pmichaud_ did you see the pir::op syntax?
21:46 japhb Not the most recent changes.
21:46 pmichaud_ basically, one can get directly at a pir opcode
21:47 pmichaud_ without having to use Q:PIR or fetch lexicals
21:47 pmichaud_ thus:
21:47 pmichaud_ my $char = 'h';   my $ord := pir::ord__Is($char);
21:47 Whiteknight how do I pull down a branch of my repo from github?
21:47 pmichaud_ the "__Is"  tells what arguments to expect
21:47 pmichaud_ for opcodes that PAST already knows about, that part is optional
21:48 pmichaud_ (and we can add opcodes to PAST)
21:48 japhb Any doc on the mapping for the __Is part?
21:48 pmichaud_ in PAST::Compiler, yes
21:48 japhb OK
21:49 pmichaud_ basically it's a signature,  I == int register, N == num register,  S == string register,  P == pmc register
21:49 pmichaud_ i == any integer register or constant,  n == any num register or constant,  s == any string register or constant
21:49 pmichaud_ so  "ord__Is"  says the opcode returns an int register and expects a string register or string constant argument
21:49 japhb "Takes any string register or constant, returns int register"
21:50 japhb jinx
21:50 pmichaud_ exactly.
21:50 pmichaud_ v == void
21:50 pmichaud_ so, pir::ord__Is($char) replaces
21:50 dalek matrixy: d907536 | Whiteknight++ | Configure.nqp:
21:50 dalek matrixy: Comment out the stuff that checks for parrot-linear-algebra. Not ready for that yet
21:50 dalek matrixy: review: http://github.com/Whiteknight/matrixy/commi​t/d907536a18076db4038e2b5588503f07073830b6
21:50 dalek matrixy: ef19323 | Whiteknight++ | :
21:50 dalek matrixy: Merge branch 'master' of git@github.com:Whiteknight/matrixy
21:50 dalek matrixy: review: http://github.com/Whiteknight/matrixy/commi​t/ef19323dd6ffb76b404ba15d95ef2c5b2f9da9d6
21:51 pmichaud_ Q:PIR { $P0 = find_lex '$char';  $S0 = $P0;  $I0 = ord $S0;  %r = box $I0 }
21:51 pmichaud_ (where those all had to be on separate lines, of course)
21:51 japhb nodnod
21:52 japhb very nice indeed.
21:52 pmichaud_ things I'll probably add soon
21:52 japhb Q:PIR{} still works though, yes?
21:52 pmichaud_ yes, Q:PIR{} is still available.
21:52 japhb excellent
21:52 pmichaud_ I'll probably add sub MAIN(@args) { ... }   to tag a sub as :main
21:53 japhb w00t
21:53 pmichaud_ and I suspect I'll add   INIT { ... }   to cause statements to be run at :load/:init
21:54 japhb Going to make an attempt at CATCH {} ?
21:54 pmichaud_ thinking about it, yes.
21:54 pmichaud_ I'd like there to be a try/catch
21:54 * japhb dances a little jig
21:54 moritz CATCH is a sack full of rats
21:54 japhb Any try/catch syntax would be nice.  Keeping with the "proper subset" is just frosting for me.  :-)
21:55 * darbelo catches a rat that scaped from moritz's sack.
21:57 Whiteknight how do I undo a commit in git?
21:57 treed How far back is it?
21:57 pmichaud_ git revert <commit-id>
21:57 pmichaud_ to rever the last commit,   git revert HEAD^
21:58 bacek_at_work Whiteknight, if it's not pushed - git rebase -i HEAD~10, delete line with commit.
21:58 Patterner joined #parrot
21:58 Whiteknight apparently a branch merged and I didn't tell it to do that
21:59 Whiteknight I'm becoming very frustrated by branching in git, which I was lead to believe would not be the case
21:59 pmichaud_ Whiteknight: it's frustrating until you grok it, at which point it's like "oh, that's so easy"
22:00 japhb Whiteknight, ... oh, what pmichaud_ said.
22:00 Whiteknight that may be, but groking it is turning out to take a long damn time
22:00 darbelo Whiteknight: You are not loving the DAG, you need to love th DAG.
22:00 Whiteknight all the while I am unable to do even the simplest operations
22:00 japhb With the extra bit that not only does it suddenly become easy, but you realize why the merging sucks less.
22:00 moritz Whiteknight: a branch merge is no big thing in git, it might just mean that you and somebody else made a commit between the last pull
22:01 treed http://progit.org/book/ch3-0.html
22:02 Whiteknight I have a branch on github that I created from a different computer. How do I get that branch here on this computer?
22:02 Whiteknight my last attempt apparently caused that branch to merge
22:02 Whiteknight or, merge to master
22:02 dalek matrixy: cb2d7eb | Whiteknight++ | Configure.nqp:
22:02 dalek matrixy: Revert "Comment out the stuff that checks for parrot-linear-algebra. Not ready for that yet"
22:02 dalek matrixy: This reverts commit d907536a18076db4038e2b5588503f07073830b6.
22:02 dalek matrixy: review: http://github.com/Whiteknight/matrixy/commi​t/cb2d7eb1596e83518013b0d5e721eee73c76227f
22:02 japhb git checkout -b foo remotename foo
22:02 bacek_at_work Whiteknight, git checkout --track -b branchname origin/branchname
22:03 Whiteknight what are foo and remotename?
22:03 treed foo is the branch name
22:03 treed remotename is probably origin
22:03 japhb Whiteknight, bacek_at_work remembered the / that I forgot
22:03 japhb (one thing that bugs me about git.  I know there is a reason for some things to have a / and some not, but it still annoys me)
22:04 Whiteknight I'm not sure how anybody is supposed to learn this stuff from the documentation
22:04 treed What documentation is this?
22:04 Whiteknight any. the git man pages, the help docs on github, anything I can manage to find on google
22:04 darbelo Whiteknight: There's documentation?
22:05 treed progit.org
22:05 purl progit.org is really good
22:05 treed Indeed, purl.
22:05 purl indubitably
22:05 Whiteknight I've been reading a lot of stuff, and still can't manage to figure some simple things out
22:06 ash_ for git, i like: http://www.gitready.com/ and cheat git
22:06 ash_ http://cheat.errtheblog.com/s/git is the cheat reference
22:06 Tene Whiteknight: I learned it by reading the man pages and a few pieces of http://www.kernel.org/pub/softwa​re/scm/git/docs/user-manual.html
22:06 ash_ between those two I have figured out most of the things i have problems with, with git
22:07 treed http://progit.org/book/ch3-5.html
22:07 treed the section "Tracking Branches" specifically addresses your earlier question
22:07 Tene I've had it easy, though.  It always just seems to match my default inclinations, which seems to not be the case for everyone.
22:08 treed Indeed. I doubt if I match your default inclinations.
22:08 treed Since you seem to be into chicks and all.
22:08 Whiteknight I find a lot of the vocabulary to be very confusing, and a lot of the command-line incantations to be complete jibberish
22:09 Whiteknight I can understand the operations, it's finding a way to tell the computer to do them that's frustrating me
22:10 darbelo I came at git from the other end. I attended a talk about it's implementation before ever using it. Seen that way, most of the gibberish^Wincantations make sense.
22:11 payload joined #parrot
22:12 darbelo Which probably says bad things of the ui's design.
22:13 dalek nqp-rx: fcb7998 | moritz++ | build/gen_parrot.pl:
22:13 dalek nqp-rx: [build] enable parallel parrot build per environment variable
22:13 dalek nqp-rx: review: http://github.com/perl6/nqp-rx/commit/f​cb7998bbe267b19bc05c0c1082822b39dd1d59b
22:21 kid51 joined #parrot
22:46 dalek parrot-linear-algebra: 16517bf | Whiteknight++ | src/pmc/nummatrix2d.pmc:
22:46 dalek parrot-linear-algebra: Add a fill() method to nummatrix2d
22:46 dalek parrot-linear-algebra: review: http://github.com/Whiteknight/parrot-linear-algebr​a/commit/16517bf270bc73489dabd1d0c16753153ebd0084
22:46 dalek parrot-linear-algebra: a764c8b | Whiteknight++ | :
22:46 dalek parrot-linear-algebra: Merge branch 'master' of git@github.com:Whiteknight/parrot-linear-algebra
22:46 dalek parrot-linear-algebra: review: http://github.com/Whiteknight/parrot-linear-algebr​a/commit/a764c8b9c0e44da1a8e002a067c8573b394963e7
22:58 tetragon joined #parrot
23:08 plobsing joined #parrot
23:09 plobsing hello
23:10 dalek parrot: r42159 | jkeenan++ | trunk/config/auto/arch.pm:
23:10 dalek parrot: Applying auto::arch part of patch submitted by Andy Dougherty in TT #423 to refine config step on Solaris.
23:10 dalek parrot: review: https://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/42159/
23:16 dalek rakudo: fcdf3e8 | moritz++ | src/setting/Complex.pm:
23:16 dalek rakudo: whitespace fixes in Complex.pm
23:16 dalek rakudo: review: http://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/f​cdf3e8fee8c94872d37cb5ad6a818ec6d48a6fc
23:16 dalek rakudo: 8cf27e5 | moritz++ | src/ (3 files):
23:16 dalek rakudo: move sign() to setting, also implement the method form
23:16 dalek rakudo: review: http://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/8​cf27e5cbd3d7478c20ab2138df400e4b09739e2
23:28 Whiteknight hello plobsing
23:28 Whiteknight git-people: how do I see how many commits I have on my machine that have not been pushed
23:28 Whiteknight ?
23:29 Whiteknight or, the raw commit difference between myself and the master on github (because it may have commits I don't have)
23:29 treed you just want a diff?
23:29 treed or a list of commits?
23:30 moritz git log HEAD..origin
23:30 moritz add a -p option to also see the diff
23:31 bacek_at_work moritz, origin..HEAD :)
23:32 moritz erm, whatever ;-)
23:47 patspam joined #parrot
23:56 ash_ joined #parrot

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