Camelia, the Perl 6 bug

IRC log for #parrot, 2009-11-03

Parrot | source cross referenced

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Time Nick Message
00:00 kiwichris darbelo, No OpenBSD support. There is a NetBSD user so maybe that will help.
00:01 darbelo Toolchain should be close enough. I'll give it a go later in the week after I'm done with the bloody circuit analisys exam.
00:02 kiwichris darbelo, by support I mean existing packages or binaries
00:02 darbelo So, a build from source should work. Cool.
00:03 TiMBuS joined #parrot
00:03 kiwichris darbelo, yes it should
00:03 dalek TT #1187 created by mikehh++: t/src/warnings fails test 2 on optimized build with Ubuntu 9.10 amd64
00:07 darbelo kiwichris: Excelent! I'll still wait until after the exam though.
00:07 darbelo I have so much stuff in my brain right now I'm afraid I'll start forgetting it if I learn anything new.
00:10 darbelo Oh, look at this cool shiny RTOS! and *poof* I don't know anything about tchevychev filters anymore.
00:11 darbelo Whiteknight: ping
00:11 Whiteknight darbelo: pong
00:13 darbelo I'm working on TT#1072, and I'm one line away from a correct solution.
00:13 Coke chevy chase filters?
00:13 Coke huh.
00:14 chromatic They forget everything after Caddyshack, Ghostbusters, and the first Fletch movie.
00:14 Coke that's probably for the best. (Chevy was in ghostbusters?)
00:14 darbelo do you know what the VTABLE_instantiate_str() call in  compilers/imcc/pbc.c should be repolace with?
00:14 chromatic No, but it's a general principle.
00:14 darbelo s/repolace/replaced/
00:15 Coke darbelo: hah. good luck with that. =-)
00:15 chromatic Ouch, that's a tough one.
00:16 darbelo It's the one remaing use I have of thet vtable. Removing the rest was easy enough.
00:16 Coke I suspect this one will be much more difficult. =-)
00:17 darbelo But I (fortunately) don0t know enough about symregs to know what's TRT here.
00:17 chromatic Only FIA, Float, Integer, and String implement that vtable anyway.
00:17 chromatic FIA will be the tough one.
00:18 darbelo Yeah, The others just get and ATTR set.
00:18 zak_ joined #parrot
00:19 darbelo But I wonder, what make this types special? Why can the other go by without this vtable.
00:20 chromatic I think it's to handle the get_params and similar opcodes.
00:21 darbelo add_1_const() isn't making that distinction. Icall there fora any pmc it recieves.
00:21 Andy joined #parrot
00:23 Coke darbelo: wasn't this for constant generation?
00:23 Zak joined #parrot
00:23 darbelo Creates a constant PMC, given a SymReg. Allegedly.
00:24 chromatic Any of the other PMCs gets the default behavior, which throws an exception.
00:25 dalek parrot-linear-algebra: 20c6e46 | Whiteknight++ | src/pmc/nummatrix2d.pmc:
00:25 darbelo chromatic: Exactly. How come we get away with that?
00:25 dalek parrot-linear-algebra: fix whitespace, and actually get the PMC to build.
00:25 dalek parrot-linear-algebra: review: http://github.com/Whiteknight/parrot-linear-algebr​a/commit/20c6e463b35025985484bac8aa5cf3008b0f62fe
00:25 darbelo We never create constants of any other type?
00:27 Coke pretty sure FIA was for PCC
00:27 chromatic As far as I know, darbelo.
00:30 darbelo Hmm. I wonder how pirc does this...
00:30 Whiteknight urg, how do I compile something with debug symbols?
00:30 Whiteknight is it -DDEBUG?
00:30 darbelo put -g in CFLAGS ?
00:31 Whiteknight -g is debug?
00:31 darbelo debug symbols, last time I looked.
00:33 darbelo I think Configure already puts it there if you don't --optimize
00:33 Coke you can do both with gcc.
00:34 Coke perl Configure.pl --optimize --ccflags=-g --prefix=/Users/coke/bird
00:34 zak_ joined #parrot
00:34 darbelo Coke: Exactly, but you don't need to add -g if you don't --optimize.
00:35 Coke yes, but you should always optimize. =-)
00:36 allison FIA is for IMCC, PCC doesn't use instantiate_str to create the signature arrays
00:36 kiwichris What is src/parrot_config.c ?
00:37 Coke at a guess, the source of parrot_config (an executable) ?
00:37 allison really, that could move to a subroutine in IMCC instead of a vtable function on FIA
00:37 darbelo kiwichris: That is a comand-line interface you can use to query the parrot config settings.
00:38 kiwichris kiwichris, config, as in how it was configured and built ?
00:38 kiwichris darbelo, oops for you :)
00:38 allison joined #parrot
00:39 darbelo Yes, it reports all of the data generated by the configure probes, and hints files.
00:39 * darbelo forgets what a transfer function is.
00:39 kiwichris What are src/dynoplibs ?
00:40 cotto_work That's where dynops live, which are ops that can be loaded at runtime.
00:41 kiwichris cotto_work, thanks
00:43 kiwichris I am looking for a away to diff to built trees so I am get an RTEMS specific patch. Once Configure.pl can support RTEMS is not less important.
00:43 kiwichris msg Should concentrate on one thing at a time.
00:43 purl Sorry, I've never seen should before.
00:43 darbelo allison: Okay, I was looking for a cleaner way out, but I can do that too.
00:44 dukeleto back again
00:44 allison darbelo: on what?
00:45 darbelo <@allison> really, that could move to a subroutine in IMCC instead of a vtable function on FIA
00:45 allison ah, right
00:45 darbelo I'm working on killing the VTABLE. TT#1072
00:45 allison if it helps any, that whole generation of a FIA is likely to go away with the next refactor of PCC
00:46 allison and just create a CallSignature directly instead
00:47 allison darbelo: (after looking at ticket)yes, makes sense
00:47 dukeleto kiwichris: dynops might prove to be hard on RTEMS
00:48 dukeleto kiwichris: they are dynamically loadable opcodes. rtems only supports static linking
00:48 Zak joined #parrot
00:49 kiwichris dukeleto, Agreed. A gsoc project this year added dlopen and friends so in time it could be added. What would we miss out on ?
00:49 darbelo kiwichris: HLL-provided ops.
00:50 dukeleto kiwichris: not very much, right now. just a few special purpose math ops. but you would miss out on random number generation, which is implemented as a dynop
00:50 darbelo Also, you won't have dynpmcs.
00:50 dukeleto kiwichris: and more things are planned to be implemented as dynops in the future
00:51 dukeleto darbelo: what dynpmcs exist now?
00:51 kiwichris dukeleto, interesting, so this just stops bloating the base VM ?
00:51 darbelo dukeleto: Languages that need dynops won't work either.
00:52 darbelo kiwichris: In theory :)
00:52 darbelo dukeleto: In parrot core? Not many important onw I can think of righ now.
00:52 tetragon joined #parrot
00:52 dukeleto kiwichris: it allows swapping in/out opcodes at runtime. mostly for ease-of-customizability, but it also keeps the core small
00:53 dalek TT #1188 created by allison++: [RFC] Modify build directories to more closely match the install ...
00:53 dukeleto kiwichris: parrot does not need to be recompiled to change out dynops
00:53 kiwichris dukeleto, I like it. Some RTEMS users insist on static everything (easier to certify) so could that they built in ?
00:54 dukeleto kiwichris: it should be possible to just choose which dynops people wanted in a static build and just include those. like 'all' or 'rng'
00:54 kiwichris dukeleto, great.
00:56 cotto_work Couldn't the dynopslibs be statically linked?  I don't think parrot will care as long as Parrot_load_foo_lib gets called to initialize the ops/pmcs.
00:56 dukeleto cotto_work: yep
00:56 * darbelo goes on the hunt for foods.
00:56 darbelo See t'aal later!
00:59 japhb Has there been a final decision on the NQP-rx .pir file snapshot-into-parrot-core request?
01:01 dukeleto where are the docs for fiddling with src/parser/grammar-oper.pg in an HLL?
01:04 dukeleto msg Infinoid can we get the kea HLL working on dalek? dalek hates me.
01:04 purl Message for infinoid stored.
01:08 dalek parrot: r42230 | allison++ | trunk/docs/book/draft/ch11​_directive_reference.pod:
01:09 dalek parrot: [cage] Remove some references to "compilation unit" in draft book chapters.
01:09 dalek parrot: review: https://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/42230/
01:10 Whiteknight incoming
01:10 purl i heard incoming was https://pause.perl.org/incoming/
01:10 Whiteknight purl forget incoming
01:10 purl Whiteknight: I forgot incoming
01:10 Whiteknight purl incoming is <reply>oh shit! hit the decks!
01:10 purl OK, Whiteknight.
01:10 Whiteknight incoming
01:10 purl oh shit! hit the decks!
01:11 Whiteknight purl++
01:11 dalek parrot-linear-algebra: 32890b0 | Whiteknight++ | src/pmc/nummatrix2d.pmc:
01:11 dalek parrot-linear-algebra: get initialize_from_array method working.
01:11 dalek parrot-linear-algebra: review: http://github.com/Whiteknight/parrot-linear-algebr​a/commit/32890b053dc877e91013a08205628e2e7f19b944
01:11 dalek parrot-linear-algebra: bf202a1 | Whiteknight++ | t/10-nummatrix.t:
01:11 dalek parrot-linear-algebra: add tests for initialize_from_array method
01:11 dalek parrot-linear-algebra: review: http://github.com/Whiteknight/parrot-linear-algebr​a/commit/bf202a1ad55da1fe82bb519139cb6c1a3ae585cb
01:11 dalek parrot-linear-algebra: b7010f2 | Whiteknight++ |  (2 files):
01:12 dalek parrot-linear-algebra: redo initialize_from_array to be cleaner and more sane
01:12 dalek parrot-linear-algebra: review: http://github.com/Whiteknight/parrot-linear-algebr​a/commit/b7010f29df99f7dd31ff6ee198273e827083bd88
01:12 dalek parrot-linear-algebra: 1244fc5 | Whiteknight++ | src/pmc/nummatrix2d.pmc:
01:12 dalek parrot-linear-algebra: get_block now appears to work correctly
01:12 dalek parrot-linear-algebra: review: http://github.com/Whiteknight/parrot-linear-algebr​a/commit/1244fc5b372d73b4f1993a5e47f440967b5912de
01:12 dalek parrot-linear-algebra: d0b6840 | Whiteknight++ | t/10-nummatrix.t:
01:12 dalek parrot-linear-algebra: add tests for get_block
01:12 dalek parrot-linear-algebra: review: http://github.com/Whiteknight/parrot-linear-algebr​a/commit/d0b68409603f059884361515771e9828db2b5e00
01:12 dalek parrot-linear-algebra: 09114a5 | Whiteknight++ | src/pmc/nummatrix2d.pmc:
01:12 dalek parrot-linear-algebra: set_block now appears to work
01:12 dalek parrot-linear-algebra: review: http://github.com/Whiteknight/parrot-linear-algebr​a/commit/09114a5417b3cffb0c5a80c936f82393a83c5840
01:12 dalek parrot-linear-algebra: 2e4f6f1 | Whiteknight++ | t/10-nummatrix.t:
01:12 dalek parrot-linear-algebra: add a test for set_block
01:12 dalek parrot-linear-algebra: review: http://github.com/Whiteknight/parrot-linear-algebr​a/commit/2e4f6f131eb4f2a8438224573276445d31bb6934
01:12 dalek parrot-linear-algebra: 650ccbb | Whiteknight++ | t/10-nummatrix.t:
01:12 dalek parrot-linear-algebra: fix the test plan
01:12 dalek parrot-linear-algebra: review: http://github.com/Whiteknight/parrot-linear-algebr​a/commit/650ccbb420e57b119e3831b95397249f29901c4d
01:12 Whiteknight ...and with that, I think parrot-linear-algebra contains all the functionality that Matrixy needs
01:12 Whiteknight at least, for basic operation
01:13 dukeleto Whiteknight++
01:15 dalek parrot: r42231 | allison++ | trunk/docs (3 files):
01:15 dalek parrot: [cage] More documentation updates to remove references to "compilation unit".
01:15 dalek parrot: review: https://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/42231/
01:22 dalek parrot: r42232 | allison++ | trunk/t/pmc/sub.t:
01:22 dalek parrot: [cage] Changing a comment to remove "compilation unit".
01:22 dalek parrot: review: https://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/42232/
01:24 dukeleto msg mikehh i am seeing that same failure in t/src/warnings.t on darwin/x86
01:24 purl Message for mikehh stored.
01:34 plobsing hi #parrot
01:34 dukeleto plobsing: hello! are you working on jit-stuff?
01:35 dukeleto plobsing: if so, you need a commit bit. have you thought about sending in a parrot CLA so that you can drink the koolaid straight from the jar?
01:35 plobsing yes. I didn't have much time last week, but I'm going to try to get the auto_libjit working with pcc_reapply.
01:35 dalek parrot: r42233 | dukeleto++ | trunk (3 files):
01:35 dalek parrot: [t][TT #1183] dies_ok() for Test::More, bubaflub++
01:35 dalek parrot: review: https://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/42233/
01:35 plobsing dukeleto: I don't have nearly enough good patches to be a parrot commiter
01:36 plobsing all the pathes I've sent in have been horrible and needed massive fixes
01:36 dukeleto plobsing: perhaps you should focus more on tests
01:36 plobsing I'll experiment in github and if it looks good, then we'll try to commit it
01:37 plobsing I'm working on drinking the testing coolaid, but it's a pretty bitter brew
01:37 dukeleto plobsing: perhaps you can write down your ideas on the wiki? what are the first steps? frame builder or L1 ops for llvm?
01:38 plobsing here's what I think (may be a little off):
01:38 dukeleto plobsing: we kind of need a "spec" for our jit. what are the most basic things that we want it to do?
01:38 plobsing get a framebuilder, rewrite pmcs in nqp/whatever, bootstrap with framebuilder
01:39 dukeleto ok, so a framebuilder is first
01:39 dukeleto what is the first step in making a framebuilder?
01:39 Andy joined #parrot
01:39 plobsing it's the easiest piece of the puzzle
01:39 dukeleto plobsing: do you know about the parrot git mirror on github?
01:39 plobsing just found out about it yesterday
01:39 dukeleto plobsing: how do we properly test a frame builder?
01:40 chromatic Run some NCI tests.
01:40 plobsing see TT#1147 tests
01:40 dukeleto plobsing: http://github.com/leto/parrot
01:40 plobsing thanks
01:40 dukeleto chromatic: which NCI tests?
01:40 nbrown joined #parrot
01:40 dukeleto chromatic: and is that testing-at-distance ?
01:40 plobsing t/pmc/nci.t is pretty comprensive
01:41 dukeleto plobsing: it should be updated every 2 hours. bug me if it ain't :)
01:41 plobsing dukeleto: one patch in #1147 tests the dynamic frame builder against the static ones generated in nativecall.pl
01:41 dukeleto plobsing: that is cool. is the test in perl or PIR?
01:41 plobsing currently perl
01:41 plobsing I dislike the idea of moving to all PIR based tests
01:42 dukeleto plobsing: do tell
01:42 plobsing if the harness doesn't work (because I messed something up) how do I know whether it is the test or the harness that fails?
01:42 plobsing there are a couple of areas that are sensitive to this: JIT, NCI for examples
01:43 dukeleto plobsing: i don't see how that is a Perl vs PIR issue
01:43 * kiwichris is away: I'm away but logging
01:43 plobsing it isn't really, its an issue of using the unit under test to test itself
01:44 dukeleto plobsing: parrot's test harness is in perl. we are talking about the tests being written in PIR
01:44 allison plobsing: yes, I ran into that while working on pcc_reapply, where a large number of the failures were simply because the PIR version of Test::More couldn't make one subroutine call
01:44 allison plobsing: but, it is just a general problem of bootstrapping tests
01:45 allison plobsing: and the answer is to make the test suite smarter, testing core behaviors before more complex behaviors
01:45 chromatic Test::More relies on some complex behaviors.
01:45 dukeleto plobsing: i looked at the tests in that patch. they could be rewritten in PIR if need be.
01:46 dukeleto chromatic: Test::More relies on PGE
01:46 plobsing but nativecall.pl is in Perl
01:46 allison chromatic: aye, but printing "ok 1" doesn't require particularly complex behaviors
01:46 chromatic I meant besides PGE, but yes.
01:46 plobsing the point of the tests is to make the NCI => PCC mappings synchronize
01:47 plobsing if we have 2 sources 1 for t/pmc/nci.t and 1 for nativecall.pl its just as bad as having 1 for src/pmc/nci.pmc and 1 for nativecall.pl
01:47 dukeleto plobsing: perhaps that stuff would be better implemented in NQP ?
01:47 plobsing the test or nativecall.pl?
01:48 * dukeleto needs to wander home
01:48 dukeleto plobsing: nativecall.pl
01:48 purl nativecall.pl is in Perl
01:48 dukeleto purl, go play in traffic and die in a fire
01:48 purl go play in traffic and die in a fire is probably on the double!
01:48 plobsing thats a good idea. nativecall.pl is a little complicated for my skills though
01:49 allison dukeleto: NQP is non-core, can't depend on it
01:49 allison dukeleto: also, small bootstrapping problem, implementing core build tools in a language that can't run until parrot is built
01:51 plobsing allison: does this mean that to get rid of the Perl testing dependancy, all tests should be written in PIR?
01:51 allison plobsing: eventually, yes
01:52 allison plobsing: though, to be more accurate that's "tests of PIR features should be written in PIR"
01:52 plobsing and tests of PMC features?
01:52 allison plobsing: we also have some C tests
01:53 allison plobsing: PMCs are accessible from PIR, so count as PIR features
01:53 japhb allison, wait, can't depend on NQP?  Do you mean in general, or just before Parrot has been installed?
01:53 allison japhb: they were talking about using NQP for the build process
01:53 allison japhb: that is, before Parrot exists
01:53 japhb OK, *phew*
01:54 japhb It caught my eye from across the room, and I had a panic moment there.
01:54 plobsing what if I added a flag to nativecall.pl that just caused it to dump its info to stdout and then read that from PIR?
01:54 japhb Talking of which ... NQP-rx .pir file snapshot: decided?
01:54 allison japhb: you can always install NQP as a dependency before something else, but Parrot is an absolute dependency before NQP
01:55 japhb nod
01:55 allison japhb: decided how?
01:55 japhb allison, meaning, can we go and do it, so that Plumage can be unblocked?
01:56 plobsing why does parrot have to ship nqp-rx for plumage? why can't plumage ship it?
01:56 allison sounds like you're referring to a ticket or email I haven't read yet... pointer?
01:56 * kid51 grits his teeth at the time he just lost doing a SeaMonkey upgrade
01:56 allison is it "Proposal for using NQP-rx"?
01:57 japhb allison, give me a sec to find the archives, I've just been watching the discussion in email
01:57 japhb allison, yeah, there's been several emails in that thread (and perhaps another of similar name, I forget at the moment)
01:58 japhb plobsing, because a snapshot of plumage is going to be shipped with Parrot, so shipping it as part of plumage is effectively shipping it as part of parrot.
01:58 japhb ... except with more schedule-coordination pain
01:58 allison japhb: I have to say, I'm inclined toward leaving NQP-rx out of Parrot core and making it a module install
01:59 allison japhb: but for that we'd really be heavily dependent on Plumage being usable
01:59 japhb allison, we're just talking about the snapshot of the three or four core .PIR files, not the whole source and all.
02:00 japhb And basically Plumage is blocked on being able to move to NQP-rx.
02:00 allison aye, but they're really separate modules
02:00 japhb I could just do as plobsing suggests, but as I said, it would have no effective difference except to make life worse.
02:00 japhb allison -- sure, but we've got a bootstrap problem.
02:00 allison and the source isn't in Parrot, so we don't have an effective way to maintain them, make bug fixes etc
02:01 japhb Plumage won't be able to run without NQP-rx.
02:01 allison well, not until it's installed
02:01 japhb allison, how would you install NQP-rx without Plumage?
02:01 allison but, you'll be installing your own modules as well
02:02 allison (at least I'm assuming Plumage will have some installation process to get started)
02:02 japhb allison, the snapshot of plumage (plumage-mini, or whatever) that will ship with Parrot will be installed with Parrot.
02:02 japhb Otherwise again we have a chicken and egg problem.
02:03 japhb ... Or we force our users to manually install three different things, always.  Which seems kinda awkward.
02:03 allison japhb:... wget http://...nqp-rx.tgz; tar -gxvf; perl Configure.pl; make; make test; make install?
02:04 japhb allison ... what language will that script be written in?
02:04 allison japhb: I'm assuming there will be a something that installs Parrot, NQP-rx, and Plumage
02:04 japhb Right, so *what is that written in*
02:04 allison japhb: but I'm also assuming that something isn't the Parrot tarball that ships monthly
02:04 japhb that "something"
02:05 allison japhb: Plumage is written all in NQP?
02:05 japhb allison, NQP with a bit of PIR
02:06 japhb Even the configure is written in NQP
02:07 allison japhb: which was fine as long as NQP was a core language
02:08 allison japhb: not sure what the answer is here
02:08 plobsing maybe I've missed something, but are we always going to depend on perl being present for configure-time?
02:08 allison plobsing: no, we explicitly plan to eliminate the perl dependency by 3.0
02:09 plobsing so how will we do nativecall.pl then?
02:09 japhb I'm a little frustrated here, so please bear with me for a moment ... but I just put in a LOT of effort based on the assumption that I could depend on PIR and the runtime part of NQP (the regex libraries) as an absolute minimum available set, always.  Was I completely mistaken?
02:10 allison japhb: it wasn't my choice to move NQP out of the Parrot repo, but moving it out does have consequences. Will have to see how it shakes out.
02:11 allison japhb: We'll do the best we can.
02:12 allison japhb: but, we can certainly find a way to supply the necessary dependencies for Plumage
02:12 chromatic I'm not sure that there's anything more simple than including three PIR files.
02:12 japhb allison, OK, fair enough.  It seemed to me that the right thing was to include those three PIR files.  I am open to suggestions.
02:12 allison japhb: it may be a simple matter of doing an initial configuration step in simple PIR, before you depend on NQP
02:13 japhb I need those regex libraries.
02:13 japhb Or hand code the regex parts of Configure in raw PIR.
02:13 allison chromatic: I'm concerned about maintaining generated PIR code in the repository when we don't have the source code to regenerate it from
02:13 japhb Which means rewriting the regex libraries.  I'm not qualified, sad to say.
02:14 allison chromatic: what do we do if we find a simple bug, but aren't ready to pull in a full update because NQP has made changes that don't fit the Parrot deprecation policy?
02:14 Zak joined #parrot
02:15 japhb (fork if necessary), branch, fix, reimport
02:15 chromatic Does our deprecation policy cover PIr libraries?  I don't recall that it does.
02:15 JimmyZ joined #parrot
02:15 allison chromatic: core PIR libraries, yes
02:15 allison chromatic: if they're shipped in the tarball, they're covered
02:16 japhb It's all public-hosted code, with compatible license.  Fork your friend.  No worries.
02:16 allison chromatic: (several, completely unrelated to this bit, need to be removed as soon as they can be deprecated)
02:16 chromatic The only thing I see documented is:
02:16 chromatic =item * API changes in the compiler tools
02:18 japhb Being pulled away by $family
02:18 japhb bak later
02:18 allison chromatic: the support policy says "feature" it doesn't specify where it's implemented
02:21 chromatic It does, in =head2 Deprecation Candidates
02:21 chromatic The question is whether that is an exclusive list or an example list.
02:21 dukeleto chromatic: indeed.
02:21 chromatic I can't imagine how that could be anything other than exclusive.
02:22 dukeleto can someone help me update the "latest release" link to point to 1.7.0 on parrot.org ?
02:22 dukeleto it is pointed at 1.6.0 right now, which sucks
02:23 allison chromatic: I could invoke the Wikipedia rule, but from a more practical perspective, ripping out a PIR library from under a core user is every bit as bad as changing a core API
02:23 dukeleto allison: what is the wikipedia rule?
02:24 allison chromatic: that is, if it's not in that list, it should be
02:24 allison dukeleto: the "I'll prove it! Just give me 5 minutes to modify Wikipedia..."
02:25 allison (or in this case, the support policy document)
02:25 dukeleto allison: aha. gotcha
02:26 dukeleto allison: ·   API changes in the compiler tools <-- is on the list of Deprecation Candidates in support_policy.pod
02:26 dukeleto allison: so I very much agree with you.
02:27 dukeleto i think we are all sitting in the dark a bit, because we don't know how much pmichaud plans on changing/modifying nqp-rx, going forward
02:27 dukeleto is it 80% done? 99% done? will it have backward-incompatible changes? these are big questions in my mind
02:33 cotto dukeleto, iirc rakudo needed only one minor change to switch to it, though that's without using its new features.
02:33 plobsing link to the diff?
02:34 cotto I'm curious about that myself.
02:35 dalek TT #1189 created by jkeenan++: t/steps/*/*.t:  Replace reliance on init::defaults
02:35 dukeleto plobsing: nqp-rx lives here: http://github.com/perl6/nqp-rx
02:35 patspam joined #parrot
02:35 dukeleto plobsing: nqp-rx is being written by pmichaud and installs a 'nqp' binary instead of 'parrot_nqp', currently
02:36 plobsing dukeleto: I am familiar with nqp-rx (I tend to read the irclogs a lot)
02:36 dukeleto plobsing: there is much discussion of how and when to sync nqp into parrot core, since it has always been in core previously
02:36 dukeleto plobsing: ok, just making sure
02:36 plobsing dukeleto: what I am asking for is the commit number on rakudo that made the fix
02:37 plobsing what is this "minor change" that I keep hearing abou
02:37 plobsing t
02:38 plobsing but I have more important questions:
02:38 dukeleto plobsing: nqp-rx has proper perl 6 regexen
02:38 plobsing 1) where should I put my JIT/NCI ideas on the wiki? JITrewrite? L1Recap?
02:38 dukeleto plobsing: and string interpolation
02:38 purl string interpolation is there more than one kind of interpolation?
02:38 dukeleto plobsing: start a new page
02:39 plobsing 2) t/pmc/nci.t is currently in Perl. I understand that this should be moved to PIR "soon". Does this block making any changes to the perl version?
02:39 dukeleto plobsing: or if you want, if they fit, on one of the other JIT wiki pages
02:40 dukeleto plobsing: no, you can add perl tests if you need. but I may split that file and start to write some of the tests in PIR :)
02:40 Zak joined #parrot
02:40 dukeleto plobsing: we use foo-old.t for perl tests and foo.t for pir tests
02:40 plobsing 3) writing tests in PIR is going to require re-ordering tests to satisfy subsystem dependancies. this seems like a major undertaking. is this reordering imminent?
02:41 dukeleto plobsing: not sure about that. I would need more details.
02:42 dukeleto plobsing: write tests in any way that you need to. perl tests are better than no tests
02:42 allison joined #parrot
02:42 plobsing for example: right now, nci functionality gets tested halfway through the test suite. When I mess something up, I don't even get to start tests.
02:42 plobsing because it tries to compile PGE first
02:42 dukeleto plobsing: do you know about coretest?
02:43 dukeleto plobsing: 'make coretest' runs a minimal test suite
02:43 plobsing no. if it does what I think it does, that would be really handy
02:43 dukeleto plobsing: i think it does what you want it to
02:43 dalek parrot: r42234 | allison++ | trunk/docs/project/support_policy.pod:
02:43 dalek parrot: [cage] Make the API listing explicit in the support policy.
02:43 dalek parrot: review: https://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/42234/
02:43 dukeleto plobsing: no pge in coretest
02:43 plobsing sweet
02:44 dukeleto plobsing: allison made coretest when she was working on pcc_reapply, iirc
02:44 dukeleto plobsing: there is also 'make corevm' for just compiling the basic core vm
02:45 * plobsing should have looked at the makefile more carefully
02:48 dukeleto plobsing: http://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commits/usenqprx
02:49 dukeleto plobsing: they have a branch going for using nqp-rx
02:50 dukeleto parrot is down to 108 RT's!
02:50 dukeleto i am on a mission
02:50 plobsing this would be good to show ppl to justify including nqp-rx in core
02:51 dukeleto plobsing: the branch?
02:51 purl the branch is ready to go, I want to update it to trunk now and maybe run rakudo spectest run with it first to double-double check
02:52 * dukeleto kicks purl in the face
02:52 plobsing dukeleto: yes, or a selection of commits from the branch
02:52 kid51 purl:  touch�
02:52 purl kid51: i'm not following you...
02:53 pmichaud (rakudo and nqp-rx) -- the commits that were needed to get rakudo running with nqp-rx are the ones on 2009-10-30
02:53 pmichaud that's it, nothing more
02:54 pmichaud first commit was "Add an s1_setting.pir file", last one was the one that is at the top
02:54 dukeleto pmichaud: ok
02:54 pmichaud at that point I believe that rakudo was passing 100% of its spectests using nqp-rx instead of nqp
02:54 chromatic If plumage is capable of installing a newer NQP than the one bundled with Parrot, there's little problem depending on an older, bundled version of NQP for backwards compatibility concerns.
02:56 pmichaud and the last commit was just optimization, not really needed to get things working
02:56 pmichaud i.e., it was enabling rakudo to take advantage of a nqp-rx feature that nqp didn't provide
02:57 dukeleto pmichaud: seems like minimal changes
02:57 pmichaud they were very minimal
02:58 chromatic We're really talking about the risk of NQP making backwards-incompatible API changes versus the pain of plumage having to design, reimplement, debug, and support part or all of NQP.
02:58 dukeleto chromatic: yes.
02:58 pmichaud more to the point, NQP's intent has always been to make it possible to create libraries that are written in PIR that could be bundled with Parrot and used even if NQP wasn't present.
02:58 pmichaud if parrot refuses to include libraries where the original source isn't in the parrot repo... well, I'm not sure what to say to that.
02:58 chromatic If you want regexes, you have to have *something* present.
02:59 dukeleto pmichaud: ok, so should I just add a check in plumage to use 'nqp' before 'parrot_nqp', if it is available?
02:59 pmichaud dukeleto: I don't have any answers at the moment.
02:59 pmichaud dukeleto: I don't know what parrot's answer is going to be.
02:59 dukeleto pmichaud: what would you prefer?
02:59 dukeleto pmichaud: i am asking about plumage's answer
02:59 pmichaud I would think that plumage's answer will depend on what nqp does, which will partially depend on what parrot decides
03:00 pmichaud if a decision has been made, I just haven't read it yet (I've been pretty distracted today by other concerns)
03:00 dukeleto pmichaud: wheels within wheels
03:00 purl Wheels within wheels in a spiral array. A pattern so grand and complex. Time after time we lose sight of the way. Our causes can't see their effects.
03:00 dukeleto pmichaud: all comments on parrot-dev have been positive, that i have seen
03:01 dukeleto pmichaud: but more people need to weigh in
03:02 dukeleto pmichaud: i want to test plumage with nqp-rx. now. what is the easiest way to do that? just hack plumage to use an installed 'nqp' instead of 'parrot_nqp' ?
03:03 pmichaud dukeleto: yeah, that'd be easiest
03:04 pmichaud just install parrot, install nqp, have plumage use 'nqp' instead of 'parrot_nqp'
03:04 pmichaud (er, install nqp-rx)
03:05 japhb bak for a bit
03:06 dukeleto pmichaud: does 'nqp' get installed into PARROT_BIN or the users path ?
03:08 japhb I can't sanely do some of the stuff I want to do in Plumage without nqp-rx.  If Parrot refuses to ship nqp-rx, I will probably just put it into plumage, and it will get into parrot anyway -- except in the wrong way.  I'm going for right action here, and end-running is not that.
03:08 pmichaud dukeleto: parrot_bin, of course :)
03:08 allison japhb: you could include the .pir files in Plumage, that would work
03:08 pmichaud japhb: I've made my proposal for right action.  If parrot doesn't want to follow that, nqp will create its own.
03:09 allison japhb: that would actually solve the problem all around
03:09 allison japhb: as in "the Parrot tarball doesn't include any modules at all, just install Plumage, then pick what you want"
03:10 pmichaud japhb: I wouldn't be opposed to having plumage as the official mechanism for people to obtain nqp
03:10 pmichaud (depending on how its policies end up working out)
03:10 japhb pmichaud, OK.
03:10 pmichaud I mean, ultimately whatever happens has to be convenient for library and hll developers
03:11 dukeleto pmichaud: really, in PARROT_BIN ?
03:11 dukeleto pmichaud: is that kosher ?
03:11 japhb I still think this is not ideal, but I am nothing if not willing to compromise.
03:11 pmichaud dukeleto: aren't languages supposed to install themselves in parrot_bin ?
03:11 japhb dukeleto, that's where all the languages go.
03:11 allison yes, that's where languages go
03:11 pmichaud dukeleto: where else would they go?
03:12 allison (with any supporting libraries in lib/parrot/...)
03:12 dukeleto pmichaud: don't know. just askin'. if that is where languages go, sounds good to me.
03:12 dukeleto pmichaud: means I need to tweak my patch tho...
03:13 * dukeleto is compiling nqp-rx
03:15 allison japhb: since Plumage is a module installer, you would have the option of either including the NQP .pir files, or pulling them in like you do other module dependencies, whatever works out to be easiest
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03:16 allison japhb: I don't know what to do in the case where two different modules or languages depend on two different versions of NQP
03:16 allison japhb: (that's a problem that core Parrot really wouldn't be equipped to handle, but Plumage probably could)
03:16 dalek tracwiki: v16 | plobsing++ | JITRewrite
03:16 dalek tracwiki: put tasks at the top
03:16 dalek tracwiki: https://trac.parrot.org/parrot/wiki/J​ITRewrite?version=16&amp;action=diff
03:17 dukeleto japhb: i think plumage is the best solution to the nqp-rx issue
03:17 dukeleto pmichaud: (kadath)(~/git/nqp-rx master )$ gmake test
03:17 dukeleto prove -r --exec ./nqp t/nqp
03:17 dukeleto Unknown option: exec
03:17 dukeleto gmake: *** [nqp-test] Error 1
03:18 dukeleto $ prove --version
03:18 dukeleto prove v2.64, using Test::Harness v3.16 and Perl v5.10.0
03:18 japhb OK, I will discuss in more detail with pmichaud about how the details, and we'll try to get plumage back on the fast track again.
03:18 dukeleto japhb: i think plumage should use nqp-rx as a git submodule
03:19 japhb dukeleto, That will definitely be on the list as a possibility.
03:19 japhb dukeleto, right now I just want to be in a least-friction basis between the two projects.
03:20 japhb pmichaud is AFK at the moment, but we'll be talking later.
03:21 dukeleto msg pmichaud nqp --version does not give a version number in nqp-rx
03:21 purl Message for pmichaud stored.
03:24 plobsing question: how does Lorito relate to PMCs?
03:24 nopaste "dukeleto" at 69.64.235.54 pasted "Plumage's Configure.nqp fails when using nqp-rx" (23 lines) at http://nopaste.snit.ch/18538
03:24 plobsing I would guess we'd want them accessible to jit for inlining etc...
03:24 dukeleto plobsing: very carefully
03:24 allison plobsing: Lorito doesn't exist yet, but hopefully will be a language used for defining PMCs
03:24 allison (instead of defining them in C)
03:24 plobsing i thought lorito was for ops
03:25 allison that too
03:25 dukeleto plobsing: pmcs would have to be defined in lorito ops
03:25 allison plobsing: basically, it's a small core op set
03:25 dukeleto msg pmichaud Plumage's Configure.nqp fails when using nqp-rx" (23 lines) at http://nopaste.snit.ch/18538
03:25 purl Message for pmichaud stored.
03:26 allison plobsing: we jit the small set and jit larger chunks composed of the small set
03:26 plobsing couldn't we implement most of our PMC functionality now with NQP
03:26 plobsing and have NCI pick up the remainder?
03:27 plobsing then when lorito rolls around its already there
03:27 allison plobsing: we need the PMCs to implement NQP
03:27 allison plobsing: NQP is actually a high-level language, on the same tier as Perl
03:28 allison (it is Perl, basically, just smaller syntax set)
03:28 plobsing ok what about PIR then? or something pretty close to PIR?
03:28 allison yes, Lorito is basically a next-generation PIR
03:28 japhb plobsing, Note that NQP (and especially NQP-rx) pick the Perl subset that it easiest to compile down to efficient PIR.
03:29 plobsing ok. i must have missunderstood nqp
03:29 japhb NQP is efficient and high level at the same time, which makes it nice for writing other HLLs in.  :-)
03:30 dalek tracwiki: v17 | plobsing++ | JITRewrite
03:30 dalek tracwiki: add note about frame builder
03:30 dalek tracwiki: https://trac.parrot.org/parrot/wiki/J​ITRewrite?version=17&amp;action=diff
03:31 dukeleto what relation does Lorito have to PIRC ?
03:32 allison dukeleto: no relation
03:32 allison dukeleto: PIRC is a cleaner implementation of PIR, but just straight PIR
03:33 plobsing could it be forked and augmented to support lorito?
03:33 dalek tracwiki: v18 | dukeleto++ | JITRewrite
03:33 dalek tracwiki: https://trac.parrot.org/parrot/wiki/J​ITRewrite?version=18&amp;action=diff
03:33 dukeleto allison: thanks for the clarification
03:33 dukeleto plobsing: i have serious reservations about this: "Here are some options for backends we can support. We should be able to target all of these, depending on which the user has installed on their system. "
03:34 allison plobsing: maybe, the spec for Lorito is not at all defined yet, just an idea
03:35 dukeleto plobsing: i talked to many open source projects and all indicated that supported too many jit backends too early is an induced drag on the project that is not worth it, especially since everyone throws the first *few* jit implementations away
03:35 dukeleto s/supported/supporting/
03:35 janus joined #parrot
03:35 allison dukeleto: 8 years in is probably past "too early"
03:35 plobsing I would tend to agree. We should get one working first.
03:36 plobsing LLVM seems to have a lot of hype. not sure if thats good or bad.
03:36 japhb dukeleto, I just realized: you may be having problems with running Plumage unchanged on nqp-rx because nqp-rx does not ship a small library of helper functions that the original NQP does include.  Mind you, it turns out users weren't supposed to directly use that NQP library (it was for internal use), but I had not gotten around to doing as pmichaud asked and copying that library code into Glue.pir.  (Mostly because I was waiting for detai
03:36 japhb ls on the resolution of the nqp-rx-in-core question.)
03:36 plobsing note the backends wording is *not mine*
03:36 allison ignore the hype and decide based on features
03:37 allison plobsing: note that LLVM has a *lot* of limitations as a JIT
03:37 plobsing yes. I consider it to be a compiler with some JIT-ish capabilities
03:37 dukeleto allison: what are the most limiting factors of jit on llvm?
03:37 allison plobsing: and that the LLVM developers freely admit that they haven't put much work into the JIT code
03:38 allison dukeleto: platform support, features, especially features for dynamic languages
03:38 japhb dukeleto, so, as soon as pmichaud and I are online at the same time again, we'll probably get that resolved pretty quickly.
03:38 dukeleto japhb: ok, sounds good.
03:38 purl sounds good. is there a good way for me to find out when branches are merged, other than read every svn commit?
03:38 allison dukeleto: but even in general, their JIT base supports a fraction of the features that their static compilation supports
03:38 plobsing I have heard about exponential behaviour in llvm. is there a guaranteed way to prevent this?
03:39 dukeleto allison: so why did we decide on llvm for jit? or did we?
03:39 allison dukeleto: but, LLVM still seems to be the farthest ahead of the available options
03:39 dukeleto allison: i see.
03:39 allison dukeleto: it's a "try it and see" kind of decision, rather than any firm committment
03:40 dukeleto allison: the llvm developer that I met was very helpful and gave me lots of good ideas. I still need to get my notes from the gsoc conf organized
03:40 dukeleto allison: he said that llvm has a way of attaching arbitrary metadata to ops and then allowing a custom stage to optimize based on that metadata
03:40 plobsing dukeleto: once you have those notes organized (or even before that), can you throw them up somewhere?
03:41 dukeleto allison: so if llvm does not have good jit support, it seems like it should have the tools to make good jit support
03:41 dukeleto plobsing: yes
03:41 allison dukeleto: it has the beginnings of good jit support, plenty to build on
03:42 patspam joined #parrot
03:42 nopaste "dukeleto" at 69.64.235.54 pasted "very rough notes from the GSoC Mentor Summit on Dynamic Language Interoperability" (88 lines) at http://nopaste.snit.ch/18539
03:43 dukeleto that should be on the gsoc wiki in session notes, but at least y'all can see it until I get it posted there
03:43 plobsing dukeleto++
03:44 plobsing I see FFI in there. I was thinking of making a framebuilder with either libffi or ffcall after libjit.
03:44 plobsing would this be of interest to parrot?
03:44 allison I swear, if this keeps up I'm going to do my PhD on dynamic JIT's instead of dynamic automatic parallelism
03:45 dukeleto plobsing: how does Factor do ffi? we should emulate them. I think they use ffcall ?
03:45 allison dukeleto: good notes, thanks
03:45 dukeleto plobsing: factor has the easiest-to-use ffi i have ever used
03:45 dukeleto allison: no problem
03:46 plobsing have not looked at factor ffi. will do.
03:46 nopaste "dukeleto" at 69.64.235.54 pasted "rough notes from GPU session" (82 lines) at http://nopaste.snit.ch/18540
03:47 dukeleto the GPU session was quite enlightening
03:47 dukeleto plobsing: factor is a really cool language. I am writing Kea: Factor on Parrot: http://github.com/leto/kea
03:48 plobsing I've been meaning to take a look at it. basically FORTH w/ closures and gc right?
03:51 plobsing wrt factor ffi: while i'm sure a more usable FFI system would be cool, I'm looking to implement more backend to our current FFI.
03:52 plobsing s/backend/backends/
03:54 plobsing in fact, I'm pretty sure alternate FFI systems would be pretty easy to do as PMCs
03:55 dukeleto plobsing: that is a cool idea
03:55 dukeleto plobsing: factor is like forth with an interactive IDE, GC, a fast VM and lots of libraries, batteries included
03:57 dukeleto plobsing: currently factor has a VM in C and everything else is written in factor. mostly self-hosting.
03:58 dukeleto plobsing: the creator's blog is full of good info: http://factor-language.blogspot.com/
03:59 plobsing does factor do JIT?
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04:00 * plobsing recoils in terror uppon seeing C++
04:01 dukeleto plobsing: oooh. is the VM in C++ ?
04:02 dukeleto plobsing: i am not sure about their JIT. they are serious about performance, tho.
04:02 plobsing it would appear so. lots of links to .hpp and .cpp files
04:02 plobsing I pretty much flat-out refuse to do c++
04:03 plobsing karma c
04:03 purl c has karma of 8170
04:03 plobsing it comes up a lot apparently
04:04 dukeleto well someone should write c--
04:04 dukeleto plobsing: i loath c++ as well
04:05 plobsing there is c--. it was being worked on by haskell people as an alternate to LLVM i think.
04:05 plobsing http://www.cminusminus.org/
04:05 dukeleto plobsing: that makes me chuckle.
04:06 pmichaud back again
04:07 dukeleto plobsing: funded by Microsoft Research and by the National Science Foundation. interesting.
04:07 dukeleto pmichaud: see your msg's
04:07 pmichaud purl messages
04:07 chromatic Factor's well worth considering.  I've looked at their FFI; we should steal as many ideas as we can.
04:07 dukeleto chromatic++
04:07 pmichaud I haven't had a chance to add a revision number to nqp yet.
04:07 plobsing are we looking to revamp the NCI API?
04:08 chromatic I think we should consider it.
04:08 dukeleto plobsing: if it sucks, yes.
04:09 dukeleto pmichaud: most importantly: nqp used to come with some convenience functions, now it doesn't, so plumage's Configure.nqp fails
04:09 dukeleto pmichaud: japhb said he knew what was up and was going to contact you
04:09 plobsing what if it only sucks a little bit?
04:09 pmichaud plumage's Configure.nqp should use  pir::load_bytecode(...)   instead of load_bytecode(...)
04:09 pmichaud then no external library is needed :)
04:09 pmichaud where is plumage hosted?
04:10 pmichaud plumage?
04:10 purl plumage is, like, the future Parrot module ecosystem.  It will include tools to search metadata, handle dependencies, install modules, and so forth. The repository is at http://gitorious.org/parrot-plumage/parrot-plumage and the design docs are at https://trac.parrot.org/pa​rrot/wiki/ModuleEcosystem
04:10 pmichaud okay, got it.
04:11 dukeleto pmichaud: i am working on it now
04:11 dukeleto pmichaud: we have a lot of load_bytecode's :)
04:12 pmichaud that's at least one of the advantages of the new NQP, one can get to pir opcodes without having to have any extra libraries :)
04:12 dukeleto pmichaud: Null PMC access in invoke()
04:12 dukeleto current instr.: 'rx' pc 264 (./src/lib/Glue.pir:326)
04:13 pmichaud weird
04:13 pmichaud that shouldn't be a problem -- PGE is still present
04:14 pmichaud I'll try building it on my system locally
04:14 dukeleto pmichaud: that is happening with my normal parrot_nqp. something is awry.
04:14 pmichaud then I have no idea.
04:15 dukeleto pmichaud: no wait. forget what I just said.
04:16 nopaste "dukeleto" at 69.64.235.54 pasted "plumage attempting to use nqp-rx" (13 lines) at http://nopaste.snit.ch/18541
04:16 dukeleto pmichaud: is rx a nqp-rx keyword?
04:16 pmichaud not yet
04:16 pmichaud it will be, yes.  but shouldn't be the problem.
04:17 pmichaud svn checkouts of parrot are sooooo slooooooow!!!   :-(
04:18 dukeleto pmichaud: use this branch: http://gitorious.org/parrot-plum​age/parrot-plumage/commits/nqprx
04:18 dukeleto pmichaud: yes. like running in molasses
04:23 dukeleto we are fast approaching the need to write nqp_debugger
04:24 pmichaud I haven't had time to add good error messages or debugging into nqp
04:25 pmichaud but yes, this is a good opportunity to start doing that
04:25 dukeleto pmichaud: i don't know how to debug this "Null PMC access in invoke()"
04:25 pmichaud try it with --trace=1
04:25 pmichaud or --trace=4
04:26 mikehh_ joined #parrot
04:26 dukeleto holy secret back door, batman!
04:27 nopaste "dukeleto" at 69.64.235.54 pasted "/Users/leto/git/nqp-rx/parrot_install/bin/nqp --trace=4 Configure.nqp" (37 lines) at http://nopaste.snit.ch/18542
04:27 dalek parrot-plumage: 00fde77 | leto++ | :
04:27 dalek parrot-plumage: Change all remaining references to parrot_nqp to nqp
04:27 purl dalek: that doesn't look right
04:27 dalek parrot-plumage: review: http://gitorious.org/parrot-plumage/parrot-plumag​e/commit/00fde77bb7e00beb255ced69e0ddb8839126ae84
04:27 pmichaud oh
04:27 pmichaud it needs to load PGE
04:28 dukeleto pmichaud: how?
04:28 pmichaud patch coming
04:28 dukeleto looks like dalek is picking up random gitorious commits. odd.
04:29 nopaste "pmichaud" at 72.181.176.220 pasted "patch to get plumage's Configure.pl to run" (16 lines) at http://nopaste.snit.ch/18543
04:30 dukeleto pmichaud: that worked!
04:30 TimToady pmichaud: Wolfman2000 has 256m on #perl6; is he thrashing?
04:31 dukeleto pmichaud: 'it' being Configure.nqp. the build blew up!
04:31 pmichaud TimToady: switching to #perl6
04:31 nopaste "dukeleto" at 69.64.235.54 pasted "building plumage goes 'boom' with nqp-rx" (28 lines) at http://nopaste.snit.ch/18544
04:32 pmichaud nqp-rx doesn't recognize pod comments yet
04:32 pmichaud I can probably add that quickly.
04:33 dukeleto pmichaud: THE HORROR ;)
04:33 dukeleto pmichaud: can I help in any way?
04:33 dalek parrot-plumage: b670d08 | leto++ | :
04:33 dalek parrot-plumage: This makes Configure.nqp compatible with nqp-rx, thanks pmichaud++ !
04:33 dalek parrot-plumage: review: http://gitorious.org/parrot-plumage/parrot-plumag​e/commit/b670d080eef4bb6a807ccc5aacff77d0b797df34
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04:40 dukeleto most of llvm's docs give examples in c++
04:40 dukeleto this concerns me
04:41 plobsing apparently there are C bindings
04:41 dukeleto plobsing: yes, but most of the docs give C++ examples. that means using the C bindings will be harder to learn
04:42 plobsing still better than libjit: no stack allocation except on x86
04:43 dukeleto perhaps we should just focus on being a well-tested, functional frame-builder, and see if that governs our decision for how to do jit
04:43 dukeleto s/being/writing/
04:43 plobsing its a more immediate priority
04:43 plobsing for sure
04:43 purl like totally!
04:43 plobsing die purl die
04:43 purl NYOOMMMMM SPLAT
04:45 plobsing I should have a functional libjit+pcc_reapply framebuilder by the end of the night. Feel free to steal any good ideas and re-implement with llvm/whatever
04:45 dukeleto plobsing: how can I help you with the framebuilder? do you want to create a frame-builder branch on github?
04:45 dukeleto plobsing: wow. cool stuff.
04:45 patspam joined #parrot
04:46 plobsing dukeleto: I already have a github repo with the initial stuff. I am working on merging auto_libjit (kid51++ helped me with that) to work with trunk
04:47 plobsing http://github.com/plobsing/parrot-libjit
04:47 dukeleto http://llvm.org/docs/ReleaseNotes.html#whatsnew has lots of interesting jit-related stuff
04:47 plobsing currently wrapping my head around how pcc_reapply does things
04:48 dukeleto plobsing: there are a few wiki pages about it
04:48 dukeleto plobsing: https://trac.parrot.org/parrot/​wiki/CallingConventionsOverview
04:49 plobsing docs lie. reading the code.
04:49 dukeleto plobsing: it has a pseudocode description of what is going on at the bottom.
04:49 dukeleto plobsing: but yes, you are correct.
04:49 dukeleto "Use The Source, Duke" is my motto
04:50 plobsing good grief! more NCI=>PCC mapping fail!
04:51 plobsing what happens when my generated frame gets called with the wrong PCC signauture? probably segfault.
04:51 plobsing and it will look like its my fault
04:56 dukeleto plobsing: no good deed goes unpunished
05:10 * kiwichris is back (gone 03:26:44)
05:10 kiwichris In 1.7.0 in file compilers/imcc/pbc.c:427 the test fails so I exit. Why might this be happening ?
05:11 plobsing error msg?
05:11 purl i heard error msg was englisch anyways
05:13 kiwichris plobsing, none that I can see. Just a call to Parrot_on_exit. It is the second check after the allocation in e_pbc_open.
05:13 cotto joined #parrot
05:15 plobsing I'm at a loss. IMCC isn't really my thing, sorry.
05:16 kiwichris plobsing, no problem and thanks anyway
05:17 chromatic I don't understand the diagnosis.
05:23 dukeleto kiwichris: hello!
05:23 dukeleto kiwichris: Parrot_on_exit is giving you issues?
05:33 kiwichris dukeleto, no it is deeper. stepping in to find the problem.
05:34 kiwichris dukeleto, went into PF_create_default_segs and never came back
05:34 mokurai joined #parrot
05:34 kiwichris dukeleto, sorry it segfaulted
05:34 dukeleto kiwichris: interesting
05:41 pmichaud I have a patch that allows plumage to compile with nqp-rx
05:41 pmichaud (I don't know if it runs, but it compiles)
05:42 pmichaud where should I send the patch?
05:42 dalek nqp-rx: 4bb9313 | pmichaud++ | src/NQP/Grammar.pm:
05:42 dalek nqp-rx: [nqp]:  Enable Perl 6 pod comments.
05:42 dalek nqp-rx: review: http://github.com/perl6/nqp-rx/commit/4​bb93132de80e0b5598cf3014002a3c64ad6a4ae
05:43 nopaste "pmichaud" at 72.181.176.220 pasted "patch to allow plumage to compile (with latest nqp). for dukeleto++ and japhb++" (281 lines) at http://nopaste.snit.ch/18545
05:46 nopaste "pmichaud" at 72.181.176.220 pasted "complete plumage build with nqp-rx and #18545 patch (for dukeleto++ and japhb++)" (58 lines) at http://nopaste.snit.ch/18546
05:46 pmichaud looks like the only changes needed to plumage were to add the pir::load_bytecode() lines and to update the pod comments.
05:47 pmichaud (the pod comments were using an obsolete pod syntax)
05:47 pmichaud afk for a bit
05:53 japhb Holy cow, I disappear for two hours, and you guys go nuts.  ;-)
05:54 japhb dukeleto, If I'm reading all the backlog right, it looks like the only thing left to commit to the plumage repo is pmichaud++'s changes to the pod formatting, yes?
05:54 pmichaud afaict, plumage runs just fine locally
05:55 japhb pmichaud, did you submit a PaFo CLA?
05:55 japhb If so, I can just give you a commitbit.  :-)
05:56 pmichaud of course I have a PaFo CLA :-)
05:56 pmichaud I've been a parrot committer since 2004
05:59 kiwichris What is a "cross-interpreter" ?
06:01 japhb pmichaud, A lot of people only did the Perl CLA, and the grandfathering has been brought up as an issue.  I had to check that you weren't in that case.  :-)
06:02 pmichaud japhb: I'm on the Parrot Board of Directors... I'm pretty sure I'm okay :)
06:03 japhb pmichaud, never hurts to ask. ;-)   Anyway, what's your gitorious id?  pmichaud there as well?
06:03 pmichaud yes
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06:17 pmichaud afk for a while
06:52 dukeleto japhb: yes, looks that way
06:53 dukeleto i just saw the backlog
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07:14 dalek parrot-plumage: f9f47a8 | leto++ | :
07:14 dalek parrot-plumage: Attempt to convert over to nqp-rx-friendly POD. Something is still wrong...
07:14 dalek parrot-plumage: review: http://gitorious.org/parrot-plumage/parrot-plumag​e/commit/f9f47a855808bb555d600feae53efe4228d727b9
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07:20 dukeleto msg pmichaud how do i use nqp-rx to read/check pod in an nqp file ?
07:20 purl Message for pmichaud stored.
07:20 bacek o hai
07:22 pmichaud dukeleto: we don't have that tool presently
07:22 pmichaud just a sec, I'll update and check
07:22 dukeleto pmichaud: i am getting odd errors because my pod is messed up somewhere
07:23 japhb dukeleto, it looks like you've got some =begin after the actual beginning.
07:23 japhb Like at top of src/lib/Glue.pir
07:23 pmichaud ???
07:23 nopaste "dukeleto" at 69.64.235.54 pasted "current error that plumage gets with nqp-rx" (13 lines) at http://nopaste.snit.ch/18547
07:24 dukeleto japhb: what do you mean by that?
07:24 dukeleto pmichaud: =begin is needed after each =end block, correct ?
07:24 pmichaud other way around
07:24 purl other way around is not better
07:24 dukeleto pmichaud: or only at the beginning of the file?
07:24 pmichaud =begin and =end are pairs
07:25 dukeleto pmichaud: yes, that is what I meant
07:25 pmichaud =begin starts a pod block, that is terminated by the following =end
07:25 pmichaud you can also tag them, thus
07:25 pmichaud =begin XYZ
07:25 pmichaud ...
07:25 dukeleto pmichaud: so if you look at http://gitorious.org/parrot-plumage/parrot-plumag​e/commit/f9f47a855808bb555d600feae53efe4228d727b9, that is what I tried to do
07:25 japhb You can't have a =head before the =begin
07:25 pmichaud =end XYZ
07:26 dukeleto pmichaud: gotcha. I just pushed the fix for the top of src/lib/Glue.pir
07:26 dukeleto but stuff is still broke
07:26 pmichaud note that the pod that is in *.pir files isn't the same as the pod that is valid in Perl 6
07:26 pmichaud PIR doesn't understand perl 6 pod
07:27 dukeleto pmichaud: oy vey
07:27 pmichaud so yes, if you put perl 6 pod into a .pir file, it will not compile.  Or it will think the entire file is a comment.
07:27 japhb OK, so perl 5 pod in the .pir files, and perl 6 pod in the .nqp files, yes?
07:27 pmichaud yes
07:28 pmichaud and hopefully we can get rid of the .pir files altogether
07:28 pmichaud should just make them nqp :)
07:28 pmichaud (I'll help with that conversion, too )
07:29 pmichaud do I need to push my patch, or has that been done already?
07:30 japhb I think duke is looking for help with his latest commit, but he may be fixing it himself right now.
07:30 dalek parrot-plumage: 8ce7dad | leto++ | :
07:30 dalek parrot-plumage: Fix a POD issue
07:30 dalek parrot-plumage: review: http://gitorious.org/parrot-plumage/parrot-plumag​e/commit/8ce7dad6f5fddb5788e9fa7fd4dd117918e4477f
07:30 dalek parrot-plumage: ac091d4 | leto++ | :
07:30 dalek parrot-plumage: Make src/lib/Glue.pir Perl 5 POD, not Perl 6 POD
07:30 dalek parrot-plumage: review: http://gitorious.org/parrot-plumage/parrot-plumag​e/commit/ac091d40988ebb00b87d4e56311db6f309d37bdf
07:31 japhb Well, that may be our answer.
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07:31 pmichaud why are things being pushed without testing first anyway?  ;-)
07:32 dukeleto pmichaud: that is on a branch
07:32 pmichaud ahhh
07:32 japhb dukeleto, Is everything working on the branch now?
07:33 pmichaud even on a branch I'd expect things to get pushed only when working, though :)
07:33 japhb pmichaud, that prohibits getting help branch interaction ...
07:33 japhb er, help *via*
07:34 japhb as opposed to via pastebins and emails.  :-)
07:34 dukeleto japhb: no
07:35 japhb dukeleto, care to refine that statement?
07:35 pmichaud I think "no, everything is not working on the branch now"
07:35 japhb ah
07:36 dukeleto still the same error about not finding slurp
07:36 japhb paste?
07:36 purl paste is (see: nopaste) or like glue but a little safer to sniff. or http://nopaste.snit.ch:8001/ or http://scsys.co.uk:8001/ anywhere shadowpaste is or mmm, sticky paste or You there! Eating the paste. or <see> 2 girls, 1 paste or App::Nopaste
07:36 pmichaud just a sec, trying locally (in the nqprx branch)
07:36 nopaste "dukeleto" at 69.64.235.54 pasted "plumage+nqp-rx error" (12 lines) at http://nopaste.snit.ch/18548
07:37 pmichaud so, are we working in the nqprx branch or in master or ... ?
07:37 dukeleto pmichaud: i installed nqp-rx 1ee030e7d0a87
07:37 pmichaud okay, that one has the load_bytecode error in it for me
07:37 dukeleto pmichaud: and I am on the nqprx branch of plumage
07:38 dukeleto pmichaud: and I did a --gen-parrot on the nqp-rx install
07:38 pmichaud just a sec, I'll start over
07:38 * japhb rebuilding parrot ...
07:38 pmichaud same here
07:39 pmichaud oh, I need to set up authentication on gitorious
07:40 dukeleto pmichaud: there should be a read-only clone url, no?
07:40 dukeleto pmichaud: or did you want to commit?
07:40 pmichaud yes, but I want to be able to push fixes andupdate also
07:40 dukeleto pmichaud: japhb can give you a commit bit, i think
07:40 japhb dukeleto, already done.  He needs to set up his keys
07:41 dalek parrot-plumage: 3853bd8 | leto++ | :
07:41 dalek parrot-plumage: Make Plumage::Downloader Perl 5 POD
07:41 dalek parrot-plumage: review: http://gitorious.org/parrot-plumage/parrot-plumag​e/commit/3853bd89b2b3b40a16bc06af3ceb03d340ea9cb1
07:43 pmichaud okay, got my keys set up, now building stuff
07:45 * japhb uses plumage master to install nqp-rx, before switching to branch ...  :-)
07:46 pmichaud okay, I'm confused :)
07:46 pmichaud which branch has the current changes in it?
07:46 japhb nqprx
07:46 pmichaud okay
07:47 pmichaud It'll take me a bit to catch up, I want to improve the --gen-parrot options in nqprx and rakudo
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07:58 japhb Well, I can certainly confirm dukeleto's problem with the 'Could not find non-existent sub slurp' error ... it's as if it's not successful in loading the Glue.pir library.
07:59 japhb OK, I need to sleep, I'll try to check back in the morning.
07:59 japhb dukeleto++ and pmichaud++
07:59 japhb g'night all.
08:01 pmichaud aha!  "make test"
08:01 pmichaud Glue.pir is missing the =cut lines for the pod
08:01 pmichaud I have it fixed locally, compiling now
08:02 pmichaud pushed.
08:03 dalek parrot-plumage: 174ea49 | pmichaud++ | :
08:03 dalek parrot-plumage: Put back the =cut lines in Glue.pir.  Otherwise it thinks the entire file
08:03 dalek parrot-plumage: review: http://gitorious.org/parrot-plumage/parrot-plumag​e/commit/174ea492c26410cf802bc8d8d5ebf6daba172e59
08:04 japhb (not quite gone yet)
08:04 japhb Fixing Metadata.nqp
08:05 pmichaud I already fixed that.
08:05 pmichaud and pushed it.
08:05 pmichaud I'm looking at the tests now.
08:06 pmichaud fixed the test harness
08:07 japhb OK, really really going to bed then.  :-)
08:07 pmichaud I'm getting...
08:07 pmichaud pmichaud@plum:~/plumage$ make test
08:07 pmichaud /home/pmichaud/parrot/install/bin/nqp t/harness t/*.t
08:07 pmichaud t/glue.t...INVALID PLAN: /bin/sh: nqp: not found
08:07 pmichaud t/sanity.t...INVALID PLAN: /bin/sh: nqp: not found
08:07 pmichaud FAILED 2 files, PASSED 0 tests
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08:07 pmichaud does nqp have to be in my PATH ?
08:09 dalek parrot-plumage: 3ef7389 | pmichaud++ | :
08:09 dalek parrot-plumage: Put =begin markers back at top of *.nqp files.
08:09 dalek parrot-plumage: review: http://gitorious.org/parrot-plumage/parrot-plumag​e/commit/3ef738976a0a220a7677401f77f1aa1e38fa8d4a
08:17 pmichaud message japhb  okay, I have plumage such that it passes all of the tests in t/glue.t and t/sanity.t when run directly with nqp.   It doesn't run t/harness properly for some reason though -- I'll let you track that done.
08:17 purl Message for japhb stored.
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08:17 pmichaud message japhb s/done/down/
08:17 purl Message for japhb stored.
08:20 dalek parrot-plumage: cab5aca | pmichaud++ | :
08:20 dalek parrot-plumage: Update t/glue.t, t/sanity.t, t/harness for nqp-rx.
08:20 dalek parrot-plumage: review: http://gitorious.org/parrot-plumage/parrot-plumag​e/commit/cab5aca8db5de3f5a2755086de31c569fdd03afc
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09:27 dalek parrot: r42235 | mikehh++ | trunk/docs/pdds/pdd19_pir.pod:
09:27 dalek parrot: fix codetest failure - pdd_format - lines > 78 chars
09:27 dalek parrot: review: https://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/42235/
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09:43 dalek nqp-rx: f1cda32 | pmichaud++ |  (7 files):
09:43 dalek nqp-rx: Rework the build process a bit; remove some outdated files,
09:43 dalek nqp-rx: add some that make it easier to build.
09:43 dalek nqp-rx: review: http://github.com/perl6/nqp-rx/commit/f​1cda3288c21e7904fb1b8d3e6cd0e1bf01ccab1
09:44 dalek nqp-rx: 23cd363 | pmichaud++ | build/Makefile.in:
09:44 dalek nqp-rx: Makefile fix.
09:44 dalek nqp-rx: review: http://github.com/perl6/nqp-rx/commit/2​3cd363142163e7c928e0eec7f7f6bf288722076
09:44 dalek nqp-rx: 24654af | pmichaud++ | src/ (3 files):
09:44 dalek nqp-rx: Convert 'action' to 'actions', per recent S05 change.
09:44 dalek nqp-rx: review: http://github.com/perl6/nqp-rx/commit/2​4654afc1933e1ccccf438739744ea720ae0fc72
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09:47 mikehh All tests PASS (pre/post-config, smoke (#29616), fulltest) at r42235 - Ubuntu 9.10 amd64 (no --optimize)
09:53 mikehh with --optimize t/src/warnings.t fails test: 2 - smoke (#29617), fulltest at r42235 - Ubuntu 9.10 amd64
09:53 mikehh all other tests PASS - TT #1187
10:07 dalek nqp-rx: 5910ede | pmichaud++ | src/Regex/P6Regex/Grammar.pm:
10:07 dalek nqp-rx: Add some appropriate nyi warnings for :: and :::, rather than
10:07 dalek nqp-rx: silently failing.
10:07 purl it has been said that silently failing is the worst possible option
10:07 dalek nqp-rx: review: http://github.com/perl6/nqp-rx/commit/5​910ede3b38942294509158087e3cfe8469cd056
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13:04 dalek parrot: r42236 | jkeenan++ | branches/configtests:
13:04 dalek parrot: Create branch to explore whether https://trac.parrot.org/parrot/ticket/1189 can be implemented.
13:04 dalek parrot: review: https://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/42236/
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13:27 whiteknight good morning #parrot
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13:49 dalek markdown: f5e33c6 | unknown++ |  (22 files):
13:49 dalek markdown: convert all tests to PIR (from Perl)
13:49 purl I don't know how to convert all tests to PIR (from Perl).
13:49 dalek markdown: review: http://github.com/fperrad/markdown/commit​/f5e33c6e395bbb3fef03421f7865fef46d751ded
13:50 moritz somebody should git-config his/her user name :-)
13:50 moritz (re: last markdown commit by unknown)
13:58 whiteknight somebody should teach purl to convert tests to PIR
13:58 whiteknight :)
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14:18 dalek markdown: cc9d938 | fperrad++ | t/ (19 files):
14:18 dalek markdown: chmod +x *.t
14:18 dalek markdown: review: http://github.com/fperrad/markdown/commit​/cc9d938210cafda1fcad4362dfff7fa624c3f489
14:18 dalek markdown: f87b15e | fperrad++ | config/makefiles/root.in:
14:18 dalek markdown: fix on linux
14:18 dalek markdown: review: http://github.com/fperrad/markdown/commit​/f87b15e8ac0f9c2715497f87b1a39a900dac3478
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15:34 kj good afternoon #parrot
15:35 theory joined #parrot
15:37 Coke RT: 107 tickets.
15:37 fperrad joined #parrot
15:38 Coke whiteknight, kid51: I'm taking 37934, since i think it's worth keeping as a todo, i'll copy it over and change it into something a little more actionable.
15:39 whiteknight Coke: okay. That's fine by me. As is, it's really too vague
15:39 whiteknight but if you think you can make it actionabe, I have no objections
15:42 Coke moritz: can you look into closing/migrating/resolving RT #57190?
15:45 fperrad joined #parrot
15:47 * moritz takes a look
15:48 moritz I've seen HLL interop between rakudo, cardinal and blizkost/perl5
15:48 moritz that's enough for me to close the ticket, if nobody objects
15:49 dalek parrot: r42237 | coke++ | trunk/docs/pdds/pdd07_codingstd.pod:
15:49 dalek parrot: Rejected ticket, removing comment.
15:49 dalek parrot: review: https://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/42237/
15:49 Coke parrotcode@gmail.com?
15:49 Coke kjs?
15:49 purl kjs is Klaas-Jan Stol <mailto:parrotcode@gmail.com> from The Netherlands or KHTML (read Safari/Koqueror)'s JavaScript engine... or called kj these days.
15:51 kj hi
15:51 kj Coke: lookin for me?
15:53 Coke kj: yes. you now have a ticket assigned to you in RT.
15:53 Coke (one you had opened)
15:53 Coke can you review it, make sure you still want it or see if it's resolved or move it to trac?
15:53 kj i'll have a look
15:53 kj yes
15:53 Coke danke.
15:54 moritz RT #57190 resolved, Coke++ for bothering me
16:01 fperrad joined #parrot
16:01 dalek TT #1190 created by kjs++: Replace .globalconst/.const directives by .const/.localconst ...
16:03 kj Coke: should i resolve RT ticket?
16:03 kj how to close it?
16:03 kj or doesn't it matter?
16:04 * kj is afk # compulsory coffee break
16:06 dalek markdown: da63cbc | unknown++ |  (2 files):
16:06 dalek markdown: clean up
16:06 purl clean up is a breeze
16:06 dalek markdown: review: http://github.com/fperrad/markdown/commit​/da63cbc39d83f0ed935d5c81fa113ba1c66d5757
16:09 fperrad joined #parrot
16:10 dukeleto zomg good morning
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16:17 Coke kj: if you moved it, reject it on the old system, it's the best choice of a bad lot.
16:17 Coke (since the only 2 choices are reject or resolve, and we didn't resolve it.)
16:17 Coke kj++
16:24 fperrad_ joined #parrot
16:25 Coke kj: you should also close out the original ticket with a comment pointing to the trac ticket, cc'd to the list.
16:25 Coke danke.
16:32 buildbot joined #parrot
16:34 Coke kj: whoa, you actually converted the individual comments. awesome.
16:34 fperrad joined #parrot
16:38 Coke japhb?
16:38 purl rumour has it japhb is Geoffrey Broadwell, mailto:geoff@broadwell.org
16:39 Coke msg japhb: I assigned two RTs to you as the original requestor; please review them and see if we still need them, and if so, move them over to trac, ala my posting to parrot-dev; danke.
16:39 purl Message for japhb stored.
16:41 Coke notfound?
16:41 purl rumour has it notfound is Julián Albo <mailto:julian.notfound@gmail.com>
16:41 NotFound Yes?
16:42 Coke was double checking your email. can you examine/migrate/resolve/reject RT # 58988 ?
16:42 NotFound Looking...
16:43 Coke seen infinoid
16:43 purl infinoid was last seen on purl 5 hours, 51 minutes and 42 seconds ago, saying: <private message>
16:43 Coke infinoid?
16:43 purl hmmm... infinoid is Mark Glines <mailto:mark@glines.org> or likes shiny things or the master of the universe
16:46 Coke msg Infinoid I assigned 3 RTs to you that you originally opened. if you can close/transfer to trac/resolve them, per my msg to parrot-dev, it woudl be a great help. Thanks.
16:46 purl Message for infinoid stored.
16:46 Coke barney?
16:46 purl barney is probably a big, purple piece of shit, or gettin' jiggy wid it or see 'grimace'. or purple dupa or o/` I love you / You love me / We're a happy family / with a great big hug /and a kiss from me to you / Won't you say you love me TOO! /`o
16:46 Coke bernhard?
16:46 purl bernhard is probably mailto:Bernhard.Schmalhofer@gmx.de
16:47 Coke msg bernhard I assigned 3 RTs to you that you originally opened. if you can close/transfer to trac/resolve them, per my msg to parrot-dev, it woudl be a great help. Thanks.
16:47 purl Message for bernhard stored.
16:57 * Coke wonders if jonathan@jwcs.net is also jonathan.
16:58 NotFound Coke: done
16:59 Coke NotFound++
16:59 NotFound Coke++
17:00 dalek TT #1191 created by NotFound++: Deprecate Parrot_get_runtime_prefix
17:22 dukeleto good moroning
17:23 dukeleto is bernhard still our current release manager? I haven't seen him in a while.
17:24 dalek parrot: r42238 | NotFound++ | trunk (2 files):
17:24 dalek parrot: [nci] add a few more signatures, add a function to Xlib example module
17:24 dalek parrot: review: https://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/42238/
17:42 dalek markdown: 889fa2a | unknown++ |  (3 files):
17:42 dalek markdown: convert Configure in PIR (from Perl)
17:42 dalek markdown: review: http://github.com/fperrad/markdown/commit​/889fa2ad06a31a0495e3b7ce10223a4d6f49c570
17:42 dalek markdown: 3306295 | unknown++ | config/makefiles/root.in:
17:42 dalek markdown: remove $(PROVE)
17:42 dalek markdown: review: http://github.com/fperrad/markdown/commit​/33062954eea371bf38fc6246ecb7589e353d27ec
17:47 fperrad ping japhb
17:47 purl I can't find japhb in the DNS.
17:51 whiteknight fperrad: is that you committing to markdown?
17:52 fperrad msg japhb could you update markdown.json, now Configure & tests are in PIR (remove Perl module dependencies)
17:52 purl Message for japhb stored.
17:53 fperrad Whiteknight, yes, after an update of git, I lost my configuration, so I am unknown
17:53 whiteknight fperrad: okay, just making sure you are aware :)
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17:54 dukeleto barney: hello!
17:55 barney hi
17:56 barney Any secret hints for doing a Parrot release?
17:57 moritz 1) read the release manager guide
17:57 pmichaud #ps in 33.
17:57 moritz 2) ...
17:57 moritz 3) profit
17:57 allison barney: start early
17:57 purl start early is their motto.
17:58 allison barney: as in, there's stuff that's really best done a couple weeks in advance, and it's a lot easier to do it in little steps
17:58 allison barney: (though, it's also perfectly possible to do it all in one day, just harder)
17:59 cotto_work barney, especially NEWS updates
18:00 barney Yes, I'll start on NEWS this weeking, being a bit out of touch in the last months
18:01 cotto_work mining #ps for NEWS wouldn't be a bad idea
18:01 cotto_work actually, I wish I'd thought of that while I was doing the release
18:03 Coke barney: you have old rts assigned to you. (i messaged bernhard, not barney)
18:04 barney I'll take a look at the old RT
18:05 Coke danke.
18:05 dukeleto barney: i was the most recent release manager. i can give you some tips, but I need to go right now. I will be back in ~1 hr
18:06 dukeleto barney: perldoc docs/project/release_manager_guide.pod
18:06 dukeleto barney: there are some places where it is wrong or incomplete, though.
18:06 barney dukeleto: k
18:12 Coke RT: 102
18:13 joeri joined #parrot
18:20 kj joined #parrot
18:22 Coke anyone using perl6 on windows?
18:22 Coke I think RT #60098 is closable.
18:26 pmichaud Coke++ # closing RT tickets
18:27 pmichaud #ps in 3
18:30 Coke pmichaud: you have several assigned to you.
18:30 Coke ;=)
18:31 Coke RT: 100
18:31 pmichaud #ps in -1
18:32 Coke seen chromatic?
18:32 purl chromatic was last seen on #parrot 13 hours, 15 minutes and 19 seconds ago, saying: I don't understand the diagnosis.
18:34 Coke seen allison?
18:34 purl allison was last seen on #parrot 35 minutes and 15 seconds ago, saying: barney: (though, it's also perfectly possible to do it all in one day, just harder)
18:42 theory joined #parrot
18:46 Coke msg chromatic - you have a roadmap ticket open for 1.8
18:46 purl Message for chromatic stored.
18:47 darbelo joined #parrot
18:51 pmichaud I'm afk for a while -- gotta fetch food for the family.
18:51 whiteknight family++
18:52 jonathan food++
18:55 whiteknight I suspect a lot of other people will show up to the meeting in 1 hour
18:55 Coke too late for them!
18:55 darbelo DST?
18:55 purl DST is political, hence is localized all over the world. or daylight savings time or Devel::SimpleTrace or Daylight Saving Time or Direction de la Securite du Territoire ...
18:55 whiteknight (daylight savings)--
18:56 * darbelo just plain ol' forgot.
18:57 Coke ah, but there IS NO DST NOW!
18:57 Coke MUAHAHAHA
19:00 whiteknight now the clock in my car is going to be wrong for the next 6 months
19:01 whiteknight ...and the clock on my microwave is still going to be wrong like it always is
19:01 Coke whiteknight: I'm sure google can help you. =-)
19:01 Util whiteknight: had the same problem. The Interwebs might know your car manual.
19:01 Coke thankfully has memorized how to update his saturn.
19:01 NotFound Coke: With the new ring?
19:02 cotto_work just push buttons randomly until something happens
19:02 whiteknight I think I know how to update the clock in the car, I just can't be bothered
19:02 dalek parrot: r42239 | allison++ | trunk/src/extend.c:
19:02 dalek parrot: [cage] Refer to actual ticket for deprecated calling API functions.
19:02 dalek parrot: review: https://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/42239/
19:02 whiteknight plus, it's hard to do it when I'm screaming down the highway at 80mph
19:02 Util Saturn++. GM sale FAIL. :(
19:02 bacek joined #parrot
19:04 cotto_work I'll take a post-2.0 release if someone wants to pencil me in
19:04 whiteknight cotto_work: sure, which one?
19:04 whiteknight darbelo: and when would you like to try it?
19:05 cotto_work 2.1 or 2.2, either is fine
19:05 whiteknight 'salright
19:06 darbelo which month is which?
19:06 whiteknight 2.1 = feb, 2.2 = march
19:06 whiteknight I think
19:06 cotto_work yes
19:06 darbelo Is feb available?
19:07 whiteknight yes
19:07 darbelo Sign me up, then.
19:07 whiteknight done
19:07 whiteknight cotto_work: you're march
19:07 * darbelo goes looking for questionable names
19:08 Coke whiteknight: please also update the calendar. =-)
19:08 mikehh I.m available to help - I don't think I want to take on the role though
19:08 Coke mikehh: running fulltest frequently is a big help. =-)
19:09 cotto_work whiteknight, awesome
19:12 dalek parrot: r42240 | whiteknight++ | trunk/docs/project/release_manager_guide.pod:
19:12 dalek parrot: [release] darbelo++ has 2.1, cotto++ has 2.2
19:12 dalek parrot: review: https://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/42240/
19:12 dalek tracwiki: v1 | allison++ | PCCMigrationNotes
19:12 dalek tracwiki: https://trac.parrot.org/parrot/wiki/PCCM​igrationNotes?version=1&amp;action=diff
19:13 dalek markdown: 10ebc01 | fperrad++ | Configure.pir:
19:13 dalek markdown: better handling error with exception
19:13 dalek markdown: review: http://github.com/fperrad/markdown/commit​/10ebc01fd3dfec0946f85df8901c35773e6c4b4a
19:17 allison oh, rats, did I get the timezone wrong?
19:17 whiteknight an architect is never late
19:17 whiteknight she always shows up precisely when she means to
19:17 allison ah well, I'll paste my report anyway
19:17 whiteknight allison++
19:18 whiteknight (/me has fallen for this trick before, I think we should post an announcement when daylight savings happens)
19:19 * cotto_work is glad his phone can schedule events according to UTC
19:20 allison so, to double-check, was it 1 hour ago?
19:20 pmichaud yes
19:20 allison (well, 40-something minutes)
19:20 whiteknight yes
19:20 pmichaud 18:30 utc
19:20 purl 18:30 utc is not always 12:30 CST
19:20 pmichaud right now it's 19:20 utc
19:20 whiteknight truer words were never spoken, purl
19:20 purl whiteknight: i'm not following you...
19:20 NotFound even purl knows ;)
19:20 allison okay, so my google calendar is right, it just didn't alert me as usual for some strange reason
19:20 cotto_work clock?
19:20 purl cotto_work: LAX: Tue 11:20am PST / CHI: Tue 1:20pm CST / NYC: Tue 2:20pm EST / LON: Tue 7:20pm GMT / BER: Tue 8:20pm CET / IND: Wed 12:50am IST / TOK: Wed 4:20am JST / SYD: Wed 6:20am EST /
19:20 allison (and my brain is wrong)
19:21 * particle uses foxclocks
19:21 allison particle: looks interesting
19:22 * darbelo drives a stake into the ground and compares the angle fo the shadow to his compass.
19:22 Coke particle: you have several tickets assigned to you in RT; if you can fold/spindle/mutilate them, it woudl be very helpful. Thanks.
19:22 NotFound Has the type of n_regs_used changed recently?
19:22 pmichaud if you don't see a shadow, does spring come early?  ;-)
19:22 allison what's our priority this week? the one listed in #parrotsketch channel is old
19:23 cotto_work darbelo, speaking of which I saw an interesting non-computer implementation of a tic-tac-toe AI: http://shorttermmemoryloss.com/menace/ (scroll down to the tic-tac-toe picture)
19:23 allison NotFound: shouldn't have
19:23 Coke allison: by default, closing out RT.
19:24 NotFound There is a problem with mixing INTVAL and UINTVAL. c++ is intolerante to mixed pointer to those.
19:25 NotFound The problem is in Parrot_pcc_calculate_registers_size
19:25 allison Coke: okay, set
19:25 allison Coke: (and I closed several off my list this week)
19:26 darbelo pmichaud: spring every night!
19:26 darbelo cotto_work: Ohh. Clever.
19:27 chromatic joined #parrot
19:28 NotFound allison: Some objection to change the signature of that function for INTVAL* to UINTVAL* ?
19:29 Coke NotFound: is it in the public API? =-)
19:29 allison NotFound: we tend to avoid UINTVAL whenever possible, the motivation for the change?
19:29 athomason joined #parrot
19:29 NotFound allison: just that the values are UINTVAL
19:30 NotFound And I tend to avoid add castings to fix mistakes.
19:30 allison NotFound: they're going to be cast at somepoint, since INTVAL is the standard type, might as well be cast right there at the source
19:31 allison NotFound: or, are they immediately cast back to UINTVAL?
19:31 NotFound allison: They are UINTVAL always.
19:31 dukeleto guess I missed #ps
19:32 Coke dukeleto: yes. post your report anyway. =-)
19:32 dukeleto Coke: i posted it before :)
19:32 NotFound This is not a user friendly function, is an internal affair.
19:32 allison NotFound: I'm asking what context the function is used in, if it returns an INTVAL that is always immediately cast as a UINTVAL, then it might be worth changing
19:33 allison NotFound: if it's returning an INTVAL that's always used as an INTVAL, then it makes sense as is
19:33 NotFound allison: is a function that takes a pointer to an array of UINTVAL, usesd as UINTVAL
19:33 bacek Good morning
19:33 Coke cotto_work: ww?
19:33 purl ww is probably wrong window or 2/3 of www
19:34 NotFound And mistaken types just forces to uses cast for no good reason.
19:34 cotto_work Coke, ww indeed
19:34 barney Anybody cares for runtime/parrot/library/YAML/Parser/Syck.pir ?
19:35 dukeleto barney: what do you mean "care" ?
19:35 Coke no. let's rip YAML out of the repo.
19:35 allison NotFound: Parrot_pcc_calculate_registers_size?
19:35 NotFound allison: yes
19:35 barney care to keep it
19:35 allison NotFound: it's a static function called once in src/call/context?
19:35 dukeleto barney: also, I am back, if you have questions about releasing
19:35 NotFound I don't think someone wants to use a negative register size.
19:35 allison NotFound: it returns a size_t
19:36 NotFound allison: the return value is not a problem, the registers used are.
19:37 * allison doing some code spelunking
19:37 Coke allison: you own more than 6% of /all/ open RTs. =-)
19:37 allison NotFound: what is ctx->n_regs_used typed as?
19:38 dalek parrot: r42241 | barney++ | trunk (5 files):
19:38 dalek parrot: Removed runtime/parrot/library/YAML/Parser/Syck.pir, nobody needs it
19:38 dalek parrot: review: https://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/42241/
19:38 allison Coke: hey, it's about 1/4 fewer than last week :)
19:38 NotFound allison: the number of registers used in a context, wich are UNITVAL
19:38 Coke allison: but your percentage is going up!
19:38 allison Coke: then I'll have to get cracking
19:39 NotFound Better I'll svn log that file to see why changed.
19:40 Coke allison: you also have 53452 and 57028 that you opened that are unowned. if you could handle those too, that would be helpful.
19:40 allison NotFound: okay, it's a UINTVAL array
19:40 allison Coke: sure, I'll add them to my list
19:41 barney dukeleto: I'm just reading release_managers_guide.pod.  Can you give me, Barney, admin privs on https://www.parrot.org/ ?
19:42 dukeleto barney: i don't know if I have that power
19:42 allison barney: it's editor privs you need
19:42 allison barney: I'll wave the magic wand
19:42 allison barney: are you 'barney' on www.parrot.org?
19:42 dukeleto allison: can you help us update the latest parrot link? it is currently pointed at 1.6.0
19:43 NotFound bacek: ping
19:43 allison dukeleto: yes, will do
19:43 bacek NotFound, pong
19:43 dukeleto allison: thanks.
19:43 dukeleto allison: i would like to add "live release" tests that we can run after a release, that verify that certain actions have happened. such as the latest link pointing to the correct place.
19:43 allison dukeleto: did we not get you set up with editor privs for the release? that should be all you need to update that link.
19:44 NotFound bacek: some reason to change UINTVAL* to INTVAL* in Parrot_pcc_calculate_registers_size at r42197 ?
19:44 dukeleto allison: i don't think i had them for the release, or I couldn't figure out how to follow the instructions in the release manager guide
19:44 barney allison: It's Barney, with capital B
19:44 allison dukeleto: updated release/current and release/developer
19:44 dalek parrot: r42242 | barney++ | trunk/docs/project/release_manager_guide.pod:
19:44 dalek parrot: Editor privs are needed on �http://www.parrot.org/.
19:44 dalek parrot: review: https://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/42242/
19:44 allison barney: okay
19:45 dukeleto allison: thank you very much.
19:45 allison barney: I don't see a Barney, but I do see a barney (with member privs)
19:46 allison barney: so I'll grant that user editor privs
19:46 bacek NotFound, erm... Looks like my mistake. n_reg_used should be UINTVAL. OTOH in many places in core we inconsistently use INTVAL in call.
19:46 NotFound bacek: that breaks c++ build.
19:46 dukeleto barney, allison: we need to add sending out messages to the @parrotvm account on twitter and @parrot on identi.ca, via ping.fm . I will write a script to mostly-automate this
19:46 NotFound bacek: I'll fix it, then.
19:47 dukeleto barney, allison: that needs to be added to the release manager guide, i mean
19:47 bacek NotFound, you'll have to fix few other places as well
19:47 allison dukeleto: good idea
19:47 purl allison: Good Idea: Playing cops'n'robbers in the park. Bad Idea: Playing cops'n'robbers in the bank.
19:47 barney allison: yes 'barney' is it
19:47 NotFound bacek: yeah, that's why I was asking.
19:47 allison barney: okay, done, try it out
19:47 dukeleto barney: i think i fixed most errors in the release manager guide, but there are probably still some omissions
19:48 allison barney, dukeleto: I also checked, and I hadn't enabled permission for editors to change redirects (those custom links). I added that permission now.
19:48 dukeleto barney: also, I wrote some scripts to automate some of the steps. I will clean these up and add them to the repo
19:48 barney allison: looks good, tnx
19:48 dukeleto allison: yeah, that is why the directions didn't make any sense. I didn't have any of those links available to me :)
19:48 dukeleto allison: thanks for fixing that.
19:48 Coke Anyone want a google voice invite?
19:48 dukeleto Coke: sure
19:48 allison dukeleto: you have editor, member, and poster privs
19:48 bacek allison, I've got question about Context and CallSignature merging. Who have to create and push new "CallContext"? build_sig_object, invoke_from_sig or Sub.invoke?
19:48 dukeleto allison: awesome!
19:48 purl i think awesome is a window manager or at http://awesome.naquadah.org or awesome!
19:49 Coke duke, preferred email?
19:49 allison dukeleto: (just checking to make sure while I was there)
19:49 dukeleto Coke: jaleto@gmail.com
19:49 Coke naquadah? like from stargate?
19:49 Coke dukeleto: done.
19:49 dukeleto Coke: many thanks.
19:49 allison bacek: at that point, it would be build_sig_object that pushes the context
19:50 allison bacek: since it would have to exist much earlier
19:50 allison bacek: and also set_args and set_returns (instead of creating a FIA signature)
19:50 bacek allison, ok, I'll try to implement it.
19:50 bacek allison, set_args invoke build_sig_object, so it will push new Context
19:51 allison bacek: that likely can't go in until after 2.0 (depending on how conservative you make it)
19:51 allison bacek: that'll work for now, and conservative enough to be safe
19:51 bacek allison, I'll preserve external APIs anyway.
19:51 bacek allison, so it should be pretty "conservative" :)
19:51 japhb fperrad, does markdown need perl5 at all?  Are you using it during build or install?
19:53 allison bacek: sounds good
19:53 bacek allison, I just need little bit more free time...
19:54 allison NotFound: since it's a static function, only called once, and always called passing in a struct member that's a UINTVAL *, I can't see any reason not to change the function signature to UINTVAL *
19:54 NotFound allison: already done
19:54 dalek parrot: r42243 | NotFound++ | trunk/src/call/context.c:
19:54 dalek parrot: [cage] fix a INTVAL* / UINTVAL* mistake in registers size calculations
19:54 dalek parrot: review: https://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/42243/
19:54 dalek parrot: r42244 | barney++ | trunk/ChangeLog:
19:54 dalek parrot: Consistently use tabs in ChangeLog.
19:54 dalek parrot: review: https://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/42244/
19:54 dalek parrot-plumage: 36f0730 | japhb++ | :
19:54 dalek parrot-plumage: [METADATA] Update markdown.json to reflect Perl 5 -> PIR conversions,...
19:54 dalek parrot-plumage: review: http://gitorious.org/parrot-plumage/parrot-plumag​e/commit/36f073075692a44fa92b06d5cd396cf483279025
19:55 allison NotFound: great minds think alike :)
19:55 NotFound allison: I was asking just because there was other function implied, and because maybe there was a reason for that change.
19:56 NotFound I must have done the svn log before.
19:58 bacek NotFound, check Parrot_push_context.
19:58 allison NotFound: makes sense
19:59 bacek NotFound, we have to check few other places to use UINTVAL for regs consistently.
19:59 allison Coke: any thoughts on where to put a link to the PCC Migration Guide wiki page?
19:59 NotFound bacek: I'm checking only c++ build ATM, to be able to deal with TT #1110
20:00 Coke allison: from Deprecation ?
20:00 dalek parrot-plumage: 8d8c2f1 | japhb++ | :
20:00 dalek parrot-plumage: [META] TODO: Convert Configure to PIR
20:00 dalek parrot-plumage: review: http://gitorious.org/parrot-plumage/parrot-plumag​e/commit/8d8c2f157805d6af4d252b5cf1369db82e62da0c
20:00 Coke which is a generic page for that sort of thing? (switching from old usage.)
20:01 allison Coke: not sure we have one
20:01 dalek parrot: r42245 | barney++ | trunk/docs/project/release_manager_guide.pod:
20:01 dalek parrot: Editor rights on www.parrot.org.
20:01 dalek parrot: review: https://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/42245/
20:03 allison Coke: but Deprecation seems closest, will put it there
20:04 chromatic Did anyone volunteer for 2.0?
20:04 NotFound Problem in TT #1110 is: Parrot_str_unescape takes a const char * pointer to enc_char, and *writes* to it. The strchr issue is a symptom, not the real problem.
20:05 darbelo chromatic: Nopes. Coke indicated that maybe somebody on the board would handle that one.
20:05 chromatic I'm available.
20:05 dalek tracwiki: v10 | allison++ | Deprecation
20:05 dalek tracwiki: https://trac.parrot.org/parrot/wiki/D​eprecation?version=10&amp;action=diff
20:05 whiteknight chromatic want it?
20:06 Coke allison: no, Deprecation, which is...
20:06 Coke (i was answering, not asking. =-)
20:06 chromatic I'll do it.
20:06 whiteknight done
20:06 Coke chromatic++ #taking one for the team.
20:06 allison Coke: got it
20:07 allison chromatic: as release manager? I thought I did, but not tied to it
20:07 allison chromatic: in fact, I think I have exams that week
20:07 NotFound Fixing Parrot_str_unescape for TT #1110 requires changing his signature or allocate a temporary C string. What's the prefered way?
20:08 allison chromatic++ #taking one for the team.
20:09 dalek tracwiki: v11 | allison++ | Deprecation
20:09 dalek tracwiki: https://trac.parrot.org/parrot/wiki/D​eprecation?version=11&amp;action=diff
20:09 chromatic What writes to enc_char there, NotFound?
20:09 chromatic Line 2803?
20:09 NotFound *p = strchr (enc_char ...... *p= '\0'
20:09 NotFound chromatic: yes
20:10 chromatic I realized that as soon as I typed the question.
20:10 NotFound p can't be const char * because of that, and thus the strchr problem
20:11 chromatic Pointer aliasing bites again!
20:12 darbelo Pointer aliasing bites.
20:12 NotFound The easy solution is to change the function signature. In fact is being used as non const right now.
20:12 chromatic I don't think that's the right solution.
20:12 chromatic I don't want to change someone's C string out from under them.
20:13 NotFound The right solution is to kill that nasty function and write a sane way to unescape
20:13 darbelo NotFound: Ticket it!
20:13 Coke RT?
20:13 purl RT is just RT (http://bestpractical.com/rt) or (:rt3) or (: rt bugs) or Obra's trouble ticketing system or the first IBM RISC workstation (http://www.contrib.andrew.c​mu.edu/~shadow/ibmrt.html) or the bombsquad or the Right Thing or very very capable and open-source or an application framework that bundles a ticketing system or obra's baby or SOOOO slow :-S or email mailto:perlbug-owner@perl.org for access
20:13 NotFound chromatic: I don't want to, is the function whose doing it.
20:14 chromatic I don't see a way to fix this without splitting the string into two parts.
20:14 chromatic Have I mentioned that C's string handling is the source of much pain and many bugs?
20:14 dalek parrot: r42246 | whiteknight++ | trunk/docs/project/release_manager_guide.pod:
20:14 dalek parrot: [release] chromatic++ has 2.0
20:14 dalek parrot: review: https://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/42246/
20:14 NotFound chromatic: I was thinking the same.
20:15 whiteknight chromatic: I'm sure you're not the first person to mention that
20:15 chromatic Sometimes these things can go hidden for 40 years.
20:15 whiteknight shit, there are entire classes of exploits named after C's shortcomings
20:15 dalek TT #1192 created by japhb++: [RFE] Redesign Parrot NCI callback functionality
20:15 NotFound Well, I'm going to the way of allocating a temporary C string, then. If that slow down pir parsing, maybe someone gets motivated to improve things }:)
20:15 chromatic Now I have an old gospel song stuck in my head about Moses and the desert.
20:16 chromatic A better approach is for the PIR compiler to split the names of encodings and character sets into separate parts of string metadata.
20:16 whiteknight string.h should have been named <bufferoverflow.h>
20:16 chromatic ... but this is not me volunteering to fix that in IMCC.
20:16 NotFound chromatic: anyway, this function needs to be fixed while it exists,
20:17 chromatic I agree.  Are you going to do it or am I?
20:17 NotFound I'm on it right now.
20:17 chromatic Thanks!
20:19 mokurai joined #parrot
20:19 NotFound Provided that encoding names aren't supposed to be infinite long, we can avoid allocating a temporary by using a fixed size buffer.
20:22 chromatic As long as there's a "Please don't overflow!" check, that's fine with me.
20:22 Coke didn't we have a ticket for adding --pirc==<imcc|pirc> to Configure.pl ?
20:23 chromatic I thought we did, Coke.
20:23 * Coke cannot find it.
20:23 * Coke wasn't looking in new tickets, for some reason.
20:24 japhb Coke: I think I've dealt with the RTs you assigned to me.
20:24 dalek parrot: r42247 | barney++ | trunk/PLATFORMS:
20:24 dalek parrot: Report success on linux-x86-gcc4.4.1.
20:24 dalek parrot: review: https://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/42247/
20:24 Coke japhb: excellent.
20:24 Coke now pick 2 more and do those. =-)
20:24 Coke japhb++
20:26 japhb Coke, nice try.  :-)
20:26 Coke japhb: excellent.
20:26 Coke now pick 1 more and do that one!
20:26 Coke japhb++
20:27 japhb LOL
20:28 japhb dukeleto, OK, I'll be a little distracted by $work (shocking, I know), but I've got a few spare cycles now to discuss the Plumage nqprx branch.
20:30 NotFound Same strchr problem in IMCC_string_from__STRINGC
20:30 desertm4x joined #parrot
20:32 chromatic Could that function use Parrot_str_unescape() directly, NotFound?
20:32 chromatic I skimmed it and it looks possible.
20:32 NotFound chromatic: it does
20:33 NotFound That functions picks the charset and unescpae picks the encoding, both by writing to memory supposedly const
20:34 chromatic Oh, I see where I went wrong.
20:37 dukeleto japhb: ok
20:40 whiteknight writing to const memory could wreak havoc with some optimizations
20:41 NotFound whiteknight: or just kill the process if someone pass memory really const to that function.
20:41 japhb dukeleto, well, OK then.  Um ... the first item is that pmichaud pointed out the test harness won't work unless nqp is in the path.  Should probably fix that to use the parrot bin dir.
20:41 whiteknight right
20:41 AndyA joined #parrot
20:42 japhb dukeleto, can you do that one?
20:43 AndyA joined #parrot
20:44 Coke AndyA: cheers.
20:45 kiwichris dukeleto, still look for the segfault with RTEMS
20:45 dukeleto kiwichris: what is up?
20:45 purl A direction away from the center of gravity of a celestial object. or the y-axis, unless you're using a strange coordinate system.
20:46 * dukeleto swings an axe in the direction of purl's face
20:46 kiwichris dukeleto, running fir.pir there is a segfault using 1.7.0
20:46 dukeleto kiwichris: but not with 1.6.0 ?
20:46 kiwichris dukeleto, correct
20:46 dukeleto kiwichris: or segfaults all around?
20:46 dukeleto kiwichris: INTERESTING
20:46 kiwichris dukeleto, no idea just one at the moment
20:47 dukeleto kiwichris: that is a bit unexpected. what about any of the other benchmark scripts?
20:47 kiwichris dukeleto, the trail is break on first call to create_seg
20:47 dukeleto kiwichris: can you nopaste some of the output?
20:47 kiwichris dukeleto, no idea but will try
20:47 kiwichris dukeleto, no real output at the moment.
20:48 kiwichris dukeleto, it is in the call string/api.c:572
20:49 dukeleto kiwichris: does ./parrot --version work on 1.7.0 ?
20:49 kiwichris dukeleto, this leads down to to_encoding and the iterator init
20:49 kiwichris dukeleto, will try and report back
20:49 mikehh joined #parrot
20:49 masak joined #parrot
20:49 dukeleto kiwichris: hmmm
20:51 bacek joined #parrot
20:53 NotFound IMCC_string_from__STRINGC can't be easily fixed. Given that is internal to IMCC and used only in the same file that defnes it, the best way is to change his signature.
20:54 chromatic It's probably copied the strings anyway.
20:54 kiwichris dukeleto, the --version option works
20:54 NotFound Don't worry, g++ will prevent mistakes
20:55 dukeleto kiwichris: that is good
20:55 kiwichris dukeleto, tried parrot examples/pir/life.pir and the same fault
20:56 dukeleto kiwichris: what about ./parrot examples/tutorial/01_temp_var.pir ?
20:56 dukeleto kiwichris: that is a simpler script
20:56 mikehh joined #parrot
20:56 kiwichris dukeleto, the call string/api.c:572 dies down in string/encoding/utf8.c:601
20:57 kiwichris dukeleto, same
20:58 dukeleto kiwichris: ENCODING_ITER_INIT is blowing up?
20:58 dukeleto kiwichris: can you provide a backtrace?
20:58 dukeleto kiwichris: also, are you using libicu ?
20:58 dukeleto kiwichris: parrot can be configured with/without libicu
20:58 kiwichris dukeleto, yeap. No the thread faulting thread is deleted before I can get to it. Been getting closer to itt
20:59 kiwichris dukeleto, what is libicu ?
20:59 darbelo kiwichris: unicode lib.
20:59 dukeleto kiwichris: library for unicode+friends
20:59 darbelo You can live without it.
20:59 darbelo On an embedded OS, you're better off without it.
20:59 kiwichris dukeleto, I doubt we have this. Maybe I have hacked out some config and broken it.
21:00 kiwichris darbelo, agreed.
21:00 dukeleto kiwichris: perhaps parrot thinks it has libicu, but it doesn't
21:01 darbelo dukeleto: could happen, but I'm not sure how to determine that without parrot_config
21:01 kiwichris dukeleto, maybe, just checking the config files
21:01 darbelo kiwichris: Ah, I remember now, is PARROT_HAS_ICU #defined to anything?
21:01 kiwichris darbelo, parrot_config is the original Linux 64bit one so is not current
21:01 dukeleto kiwichris: grep has_icu config_lib.pasm
21:02 darbelo dukeleto: I'm no entirey sure that's reliable info when cross compiling
21:02 kiwichris dukeleto, set P0["has_icu"], "0"
21:02 dukeleto darbelo: i am not sure
21:03 dukeleto kiwichris: so it seems that parrot thinks it does not have libicu. i am not sure if the correct codepaths are still being taken, tho
21:04 dukeleto kiwichris: what about  ./parrot editor/skeleton.pir ?
21:04 kiwichris dukeleto, should it end up in string/encoding/utf8.c
21:04 dukeleto kiwichris: that is a file with only a main function declared, nothing else
21:04 dukeleto kiwichris: I really don't know. that is deep in the guts, which I haven't explored before
21:04 Coke allison: you're up to 6.25%!
21:04 kiwichris dukeleto, hee I am :)
21:07 kiwichris dukeleto, same fault with the skeleton.pir
21:07 Coke who was hacking on the debugger in the last year. dukeleto?
21:07 dukeleto Coke: yes.
21:07 Coke dukeleto: you get RT# 46123!
21:07 chromatic joined #parrot
21:08 dukeleto kiwichris: so it seems that we have a low level issue with opening a pir file, on RTEMS
21:08 dukeleto kiwichris: the commandline options work, but running an essentially empty file blows up
21:08 allison Coke: damn, you're good!
21:08 Coke allison: ?
21:08 kiwichris dukeleto, it gets all the way to create_seg then dies in that. It has created the interp
21:09 Coke if (RT) danke.
21:09 allison Coke: 6.25%, I have to catch up
21:09 allison Coke: aye
21:09 dukeleto who knows what create_seg does?
21:09 Coke OOOOH does it segfault?
21:11 darbelo dukeleto: Ugly shit, if it's the one in packfile land.
21:12 kiwichris darbelo, I think it is.
21:13 mikehh joined #parrot
21:13 * darbelo shakes his magic eitght ball.
21:14 dalek parrot: r42248 | NotFound++ | trunk (4 files):
21:14 dalek parrot: [cage] fix mistakes in char * constness manifested by g++ 4.4.1, TT #1110
21:14 dalek parrot: review: https://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/42248/
21:14 darbelo "Check for sizeof(INTVAL) and sizeof(opcode_t) mismatches."
21:15 kiwichris dukeleto, what was the nopaste link ?
21:17 mikehh joined #parrot
21:18 darbelo kiwichris: Does it segfault in that function or in one called from there?
21:18 dukeleto nopaste?
21:18 purl somebody said nopaste was at http://nopaste.snit.ch/ (ask TonyC for new channels) or http://poundperl.pastebin.com/ or http://paste.scsys.co.uk/ or App::Nopaste or tools/dev/nopaste.pl or at http://www.extpaste.com/ or http://paste.scsys.co.uk (for #catalyst, #dbix-class, #moose  and others) or http://gist.github.com/ or paste or gtfo or tools/dev/nopaste.pl or https://trac.parrot.org/parrot/br​owser/trunk/tools/dev/nopaste.pl
21:18 kiwichris darbelo, just pasting a bt from gdb
21:18 darbelo kiwichris: Okay, I'll wait.
21:19 fperrad japhb, markdown uses perl5 during build, install & test (via prove)
21:19 darbelo Also, I remember uglier shit being in this file. (Whoever cleaned it)++
21:19 dukeleto fperrad: for any good reason? it could probably easily be switched over to NQP for build/install/test
21:20 japhb dukeleto, probably uses EU::MM for stuff like cp, ln, and rm
21:21 darbelo japhb: We can fix that in no time, for all of parrot. Except windows.
21:21 chromatic LuaJIT 2.0 features and research: http://thread.gmane.org/gmane​.comp.lang.lua.general/58908
21:21 japhb darbelo, That's a big except.  :-)
21:22 Coke I'd be happy if someone removed the explicit perl dep from partcl.
21:22 Coke (but it doesn't really matter since you need perl to build parrot.)
21:22 dukeleto chromatic: that is really cool stuff.
21:23 dukeleto Coke: does partcl have a perl-based test suite?
21:23 nopaste "kiwichris" at 58.172.128.7 pasted "RTEMS segfault on 1.7.0" (50 lines) at http://nopaste.snit.ch/18550
21:23 dalek parrot-plumage: d6e58d0 | japhb++ | :
21:23 dalek parrot-plumage: [METADATA] markdown still uses prove for testing, and thus perl5
21:23 dalek parrot-plumage: review: http://gitorious.org/parrot-plumage/parrot-plumag​e/commit/d6e58d032b9a85a1c78a0a39d4e40349258fe04a
21:23 Coke dukeleto: yes, though it's mostly migrated to pure tcl.
21:23 darbelo Coke: you don't need perl to run parrot. And if we get cross-compilation going, that means very little at run time.
21:24 fperrad dukeleto, if we want remove Perl5 dependencies, we need remove Makefile usage.
21:24 dukeleto kiwichris: wow, that looks fun.
21:24 Coke fperrad: ?
21:24 fperrad And write a Module::Build equivalent with NQP (Python DistUtil equivalent)
21:24 darbelo fperrad: why?
21:24 kiwichris dukeleto, handle_flags is looking guilty at the moment
21:26 darbelo kiwichris: Hmm, you got sucked into src/string/charset/unicode.c somehow. That feels wrong.
21:27 mikehh joined #parrot
21:27 dukeleto kiwichris: you shouldn't be going into unicode if you don't have libicu
21:27 fperrad darbelo, with make, all features which depends on shell come
21:28 Coke does git support something like svn:keywords?
21:28 theory joined #parrot
21:28 dukeleto Coke: what do you want it to do?
21:29 dukeleto kiwichris: looks like the call at src/spf_render.c:853 which calls Parrot_str_append is where the badness begins
21:29 Coke ... the same thing that svn:keywords does?
21:29 Coke e.g. expand $Id $ or something like it.
21:29 kiwichris dukeleto, agreed
21:29 kiwichris dukeleto, what if I remove unicode.c from the build and see what breaks ?
21:30 fperrad darbelo, with Perl5 module, Makefile.PL generates a Makefile with many EU::MM call
21:30 darbelo kiwichris: everything ;)
21:30 fperrad but Build.PL is more clean
21:30 dukeleto Coke: those things have cooties. and the answer is 'no'
21:30 kiwichris darbelo, so I need it but cannot use it ? ;)
21:30 dukeleto Coke: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/3974​2/does-git-have-anything-like-svn-props​et-svnkeywords-or-pre-post-commit-hooks
21:30 dukeleto kiwichris: go for it
21:31 dukeleto kiwichris: but darbelo may be right :)
21:31 darbelo kiwichris: not really, you can use it, it's just that big chunks get #ifdefed out without icu
21:32 kiwichris All that failed was the call Parrot_charset_unicode_init.
21:32 darbelo But it still works, in a way.
21:32 dukeleto kiwichris: you might be able to get away with commenting out the check at src/spf_render.c:849
21:32 dukeleto kiwichris: it does have a /* XXX Silently ignore? */ comment
21:32 kiwichris dukeleto, yes I did wonder about that.
21:33 kiwichris dukeleto, just looking src/string/charset.c at the unicode.c init call
21:33 dukeleto kiwichris: you are in the bowels now. here be parrots.
21:33 kiwichris dukeleto, droppings ?
21:34 dukeleto kiwichris: dragon-eating parrot droppings. Watch your step ;)
21:34 Coke dukeleto: there are about 10 test files left in partcl that use perl not tcl. I could use help converting them.
21:34 Coke (because they do things like test that 'puts' (tcl's say) works.)
21:34 dukeleto Coke: do you have a test library written in partcl? or you use Parrot's Test::More ?
21:34 Coke dukeleto: both.
21:34 kiwichris dukeleto, big boots on and socks tucked into pants !!
21:34 dukeleto Coke: yes, testing i/o is not simple in Parrot's Test::More, *yet*
21:34 Coke plus tcltest.tcl, which is tcl's non-tap testing harness.
21:35 dukeleto non-TAP test harness? THE HORROR.
21:35 Coke (I have 2 files written in PIR)
21:35 Coke then most written in tcl using a test-more-like handrolled tcl module, then some written using perl's test::more.
21:36 kiwichris dukeleto, remove call to Parrot_charset_unicode_init in Parrot_charsets_encodings_init. Now have the same failure as 1.6.0. Different problem.
21:36 kiwichris dukeleto, if unicode is not configured should that call be removed ?
21:37 darbelo I don't think so.
21:38 dukeleto kiwichris: what does the current backtrace/error look like?
21:40 Coke dukeleto: even if i rewrite all these tests in pure tcl, I'm still going to need prove to get the test harness, yes? (which means I still need perl for make test.)
21:41 Coke (tempting to switch to tcltest.tcl entirely, but that is big and slow.)
21:41 japhb Coke: dukeleto wrote a pure-NQP test harness for Plumage.  In fact, if I could have your attention for a sec dukeleto ... ;-)
21:42 Coke japhb: does it support smolder?
21:42 japhb Coke, I have no idea.  I pretty much let dukeleto run with the testing side of things.
21:43 kiwichris dukeleto, bit harder this one as qemu is stopping with an invalid memory area call. Need to pop out then back looking.
21:44 japhb Coke, but given that we've floated the idea of letting projects directly use the Plumage configure, test harness, etc. so as to reduce inter-project copy pasta, we'd probably want to make it smolder-compatible even if it wasn't already.
21:44 hudnix joined #parrot
21:44 dukeleto Coke: i have a test harness written in pure NQP
21:45 dukeleto japhb: what now?
21:45 purl now is the time for the Kwisatz Haderach to arise and conquer America on a sandworm army
21:45 dukeleto botsnack
21:45 Coke now++
21:45 purl thanks dukeleto :)
21:45 dukeleto karma now
21:45 purl now has karma of -33
21:45 dukeleto lulz
21:45 japhb dukeleto, I was trying to find out if you were planning to fix the harness requirement that nqp is in your PATH, or if I should do so.
21:46 japhb (in the nqprx branch)
21:46 dukeleto Coke: the test 'harness' has nothing to do with smolder
21:46 dukeleto japhb: i haven't touched the branch since I passed out last night
21:46 japhb dukeleto, OK, I'll throw some cycles at it.
21:46 dukeleto japhb: feel free to fiddle with it, I won't get a chance to work on it for a few more hours
21:46 Coke dukeleto: currently or ever? in parrot, the harness is responsible for generating the output that goes to smolder.
21:47 japhb dukeleto, roger that
21:47 dukeleto Coke: actually, the parrot Makefile target "make smolder_test" does that, which runs the test harness, then captures the TAP output
21:47 japhb Coke, if it doesn't now, it probably will, as I said.  If dukeleto is uninterested in that feature, we welcome your contribution.  ;-)
21:47 dukeleto Coke: so it is not technically part of the test harness
21:48 dukeleto Coke, japhb: I will look into how hard it would be to submit to smolder from pure NQP
21:48 mikehh NotFound - ok that works for me - g++ 4.4.1, will it still work with g++ 4.3.3?
21:48 japhb dukeleto, EXCELLENT
21:49 NotFound mikehh: yeah
21:49 japhb dukeleto, remember that we have the beginnings of an HTTP client in pure PIR already ...
21:49 Coke dukeleto: no, it doesn't run the test harness and capture the output. it runs the test harness with a special --archive option.
21:49 dukeleto Coke, japhb: we would have to implement TAP::Harness::Archive in NQP
21:49 Coke dukeleto: right.
21:49 dukeleto Coke: like I said, it catches the output with TAP::Harness::Archive :)
21:49 mikehh I'll have to reboot to test it - maybe later
21:49 Coke but it is /part/ of the harness, currently.
21:49 xenoterracide joined #parrot
21:50 Coke I think we're both on the page.
21:50 dukeleto Coke: the harness calls out to other code, so I guess it is a matter of opinion whether it is part of the harness or what the harness uses
21:50 dukeleto Coke: yep.
21:50 dukeleto Coke: i consider that a "plugin" for the harness to use
21:51 dukeleto Coke: but not quite part of the "core harness"
21:51 dukeleto Coke: if such a thing exists
21:53 Coke dukeleto: does your nqp harness let you run code that isn't pir but requires a HLL runtime?
21:53 hudnix joined #parrot
21:53 dukeleto Coke: the harness just read TAP output. that is all
21:53 dukeleto s/read/reads/
21:53 Coke dukeleto: er... how do you run the tests?
21:54 dukeleto Coke: in which repo?
21:54 Coke say, mine.
21:55 Coke if I have a test written in tcl, how do I get the nqp prove to run it with "parrot tcl.pbc t/foo.t" ?
21:58 NotFound Coke: maybe you can adapt Winxed harness
21:58 Coke winxed?
21:58 purl hmmm... winxed is not javascript, just uses a familiar syntax.
21:59 Coke url?
21:59 NotFound Coke: my new toy
21:59 NotFound http://code.google.com/p/winxed/
21:59 Coke winxed is also http://code.google.com/p/winxed/
21:59 purl okay, Coke.
22:00 Coke NotFound: did you write your own harness in <HLL> ?
22:00 dukeleto Coke: that is given in the shebang line of the test
22:00 dukeleto Coke: prove runs any test under the binary given in the shebang line
22:00 NotFound Coke: yeah
22:01 Coke dukeleto: is your tool replacing prove?
22:01 NotFound Coke: not so bad for a language less than a month old :)
22:01 dukeleto Coke: not in any way.
22:01 purl not in any way is it my right.
22:01 Coke so even if I switch to your stuff, I still need perl.
22:01 Coke ?
22:01 dukeleto NotFound: how do you pronounce 'winxed' ?
22:01 NotFound Coke: no, you can compile it to pir
22:02 dukeleto Coke: i am not sure. you have your tests written in a mixture of stuff.
22:02 NotFound dukeleto: I just write it ;)
22:02 dukeleto Coke: for instance, plumage does not require prove, but you can use it if you want
22:02 Coke dukeleto: if you are not replacing prove, how are you running the tests?
22:03 dukeleto Coke: but plumage's entire test suite is in PIR/NQP
22:03 dukeleto Coke: with nqp
22:03 Coke yes, but how?
22:03 purl hmmm... but how is it you know.. red?
22:03 Coke do you have a prove like utility? how do you decide which tests to run?
22:03 dukeleto NotFound: did you start winxed with the mk_language_skeleton script ?
22:04 NotFound dukeleto: no, is entirely written in C++
22:04 dukeleto NotFound: holy $expletive.
22:04 dukeleto NotFound: are you trolling me?
22:04 NotFound It uses parrot only at runtime
22:04 NotFound dukeleto: see the source if you don't believe me
22:05 dukeleto Coke: plumage has only 1 test suite and you currently can either run the entire test suite or individual tests, manually
22:05 dukeleto NotFound: i believe
22:05 dukeleto Coke: we don't have all the complications of partcl's test suite, yet.
22:05 * Coke gives up and considers checking the source later.
22:06 dukeleto Coke: but you can run a set of tests with prove from the command line: prove -v t/foo*.t
22:06 dukeleto Coke: this does not mean that our test suite *relies* on prove. prove just makes it slightly easier to run arbitraries subsets of the test suite
22:07 dukeleto s/arbitraries/arbitrary/
22:07 NotFound winxed harness can also do that
22:08 dukeleto NotFound: the name winxed makes me think it is windows-related. just sayin'
22:08 NotFound dukeleto: If I say you the origin of the name, you won't believe me X-)
22:08 Coke NotFound: I can build it on osx/x86 10.4
22:09 Coke but running 'make test' results in an error.
22:09 Coke ./winxed t/harness -r t
22:09 Coke ERROR: exec failed: No such file or directory
22:09 Coke :Run failed
22:09 Coke make: *** [test] Error 1
22:09 NotFound Coke: you must put parrot bin in the path
22:10 Coke yah, just found that.
22:10 Coke a slightly better error message would help. =-)
22:10 * NotFound takes a note
22:11 * Coke needs to rebuild parrot and will then give you a platform report. but later.
22:12 NotFound It doesn't need parrot to compile, but hardly can run the generated pir whithout it ;)
22:12 chromatic Failed to build 't/src/warnings_2.o': t/src/warnings_2.c: In function ‘main’:
22:12 chromatic # t/src/warnings_2.c:15: error: dereferencing pointer to incomplete type
22:13 chromatic Was RTEMS seeing that too?
22:13 dukeleto chromatic: that is a known failure on trunk
22:14 dukeleto chromatic: i am not sure if it is effecting the rtems port right now
22:14 dukeleto chromatic: mikehh created a ticket for it
22:18 dalek parrot-plumage: 3b0eb83 | japhb++ | :
22:18 dalek parrot-plumage: [CORE] Glue.pir: Add support for  global
22:18 dalek parrot-plumage: review: http://gitorious.org/parrot-plumage/parrot-plumag​e/commit/3b0eb83704b60a8438092453643441132eb67407
22:19 dalek parrot-plumage: 24a4fa9 | japhb++ | :
22:19 dalek parrot-plumage: [TEST] t/harness: use  rather than hardcoding 'parrot_nqp'
22:19 dalek parrot-plumage: review: http://gitorious.org/parrot-plumage/parrot-plumag​e/commit/24a4fa91fb87533299dfd48fa77146461d0fb8d1
22:19 Whiteknight joined #parrot
22:20 dukeleto japhb: you have been bitten by shell-expansion in your commit message.
22:20 japhb dukeleto, yeah, I noticed that after the push.  :/
22:21 japhb dukeleto, OK, as of the push I did just now, I believe all is good in the nqprx branch.
22:21 dukeleto japhb: it happens to the best of us
22:21 dukeleto japhb: nice!
22:22 dukeleto japhb: i have started using single quotes unconditionally in my commit messages, so that I don't have to think about the shell doing the wrong thing
22:22 japhb I stopped doing that because I had a habit of using contractions in my commit messages ...
22:22 dukeleto japhb: yeah, that is the kicker.
22:22 chromatic Ah, there's the problem.
22:23 dukeleto japhb: i just use bad grammar and speling instead :)
22:23 dukeleto chromatic: which problem?
22:23 chromatic A libparrot built with -DNDEBUG won't export Parrot_pcc_warnings_on().
22:23 chromatic See include/parrot/context.h.
22:24 dalek parrot-plumage: 6400e90 | japhb++ | :
22:24 dalek parrot-plumage: [TEST] t/harness: Resolve conflict between branches
22:24 dalek parrot-plumage: review: http://gitorious.org/parrot-plumage/parrot-plumag​e/commit/6400e90e3b097e4309e2147cdcc44d19e1ae9d8e
22:25 dukeleto chromatic: do you know how to fix t/src/warnings.t ?
22:25 chromatic Sort of.  It's a little trickier than you might think.
22:26 dukeleto japhb: you need a spiffy avatar on gitorious :)
22:26 japhb dukeleto, know any good avatar creator sites?  I don't feel like using a real pic ...
22:27 dukeleto japhb: avatar creator, or image cropper ?
22:27 dukeleto japhb: http://mypictr.com/ is decent for online cropping
22:28 japhb Oh, I can do image editing locally, I've got freshman skills at The Gimp.
22:28 japhb I just don't feel like using a real pic, because I've got one of those faces that looks REALLY generic at small pixel sizes.  ;-)
22:28 japhb "Oh, it's Generic White Boy.  I think I know him from ... uh ... somewhere."
22:29 dukeleto japhb: http://www.doppelme.com/create/
22:30 japhb Oh yeah, I managed to blow that up in no time flat.
22:33 japhb Seriously?  Some hair styles not available without login?!?
22:33 japhb doppelme, you lose.
22:33 dukeleto japhb: yeah, I just found it from googling "create avatar"
22:33 japhb np
22:33 dukeleto japhb: it looks kind of lame
22:35 japhb If I could think of a really good 3D image that would survive shrinking down to 64x64, I'd probably use that.  But I haven't had any brilliant ideas yet.
22:36 dalek parrot: r42249 | chromatic++ | trunk/src/string/api.c:
22:36 dalek parrot: [string] Avoided dereferencing an uninitialized pointer in
22:36 dalek parrot: Parrot_str_unescape().
22:36 dalek parrot: review: https://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/42249/
22:36 dalek parrot: r42250 | chromatic++ | trunk/t/src/warnings.t:
22:36 dalek parrot: [t] Cleaned up some code in t/src/warnings.t.  The failing tests (TT #1187)
22:36 dalek parrot: still don't pass, but at least the error message is clearer.
22:36 dalek parrot: review: https://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/42250/
22:45 kiwichris joined #parrot
23:18 plobsing joined #parrot
23:18 plobsing hi #parrot
23:19 dukeleto plobsing: hola
23:21 dukeleto japhb: someone mentioned http://aviary.com/ when I asked about avatar creation. looks like a web-based gimp or something
23:23 darbelo Name stealers!
23:23 zak_ joined #parrot
23:26 Zak joined #parrot
23:26 * darbelo jumps on the user pic bandwagon.
23:27 dukeleto darbelo: yeah, you need one too
23:28 dukeleto darbelo: congrats on signing up for release manager on 2.1
23:28 dukeleto darbelo: I dare you to code name it "Enterprisey"
23:29 japhb dukeleto, hmmm, aviary looks interesting.  Doing $day_job right now, but will look more later.
23:30 darbelo dukeleto: Only if someone steals NCC-1701 for 2.0
23:30 japhb darbelo, which one?
23:31 darbelo japhb: What do mean which one?
23:32 japhb darbelo, there are at least a half dozen NCC-1701 models.  :-)
23:34 japhb http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starship_Enterprise
23:34 darbelo japhb: the one with no suffix, clearly.
23:37 darbelo Unless you are asking me about a particular visual? (TOS, Movies, new movies?)
23:38 japhb Basically, yeah, but I was also just joking too.
23:40 darbelo I'd probably go with shatner-era movie look, then. The nostalgia factor and all.
23:41 darbelo It's also the picture  get in my head when people say 'Enterprise'
23:41 tetragon joined #parrot
23:41 dukeleto darbelo: that gave me the lulz
23:45 theory joined #parrot
23:51 darbelo dukeleto: My backup name is "KHAAAN!"
23:51 dukeleto darbelo: I like it.

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