Camelia, the Perl 6 bug

IRC log for #parrot, 2009-11-26

Parrot | source cross referenced

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Time Nick Message
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06:41 dalek TT #1333 created by bubaflub++: [PATCH] convert t/compilers/json/from_parrot.t to PIR
06:58 dalek TT #1334 created by bubaflub++: [PATCH] convert t/compilers/pge/02-match.t to PIR
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08:34 dukeleto 'ello
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09:14 Tene hi leto
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09:36 JimmyZ hello
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11:12 bacek o hai
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12:15 mikehh All tests PASS (pre/post-config, smoke (#30196), fulltest) at r42806 - Ubuntu 9.10 amd64 (g++ with --optimize)
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12:27 Infinoid good morning #parrot
12:30 Infinoid Coke: I will look at it.
12:31 Infinoid Unfortunately, dalek has a pitifully small log rotation, so I need to restart it to see what it thinks is happening with partcl-nqp
12:32 dalek joined #parrot
12:33 Infinoid hmm.  "partcl-nqplog github ATOM parser autoloaded."
12:35 Infinoid Coke: according to dalek, everything is fine and dandy and it should emit commit messages for you
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12:55 dalek parrot: r42807 | mikehh++ | trunk/t/op/time.t:
12:55 dalek parrot: re-instate copyright, ID, doc header and coda
12:55 dalek parrot: review: https://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/42807/
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13:48 kthakore plobsing: I see you are from toronto
13:50 dalek parrot: r42808 | mikehh++ | trunk/t/library/uuid.t:
13:50 dalek parrot: convert test to pir - based on patch by bubaflub++ (TT #1311)
13:50 dalek parrot: review: https://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/42808/
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14:46 dalek parrot: r42809 | mikehh++ | trunk/t/library/protoobject.t:
14:46 dalek parrot: convert test to pir - based on patch by bubaflub++ (TT #1312)
14:46 dalek parrot: review: https://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/42809/
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15:22 NotFound Can some nice gut make me a review of this post? http://notfound.posterous.com/​self-hosted-winxed-why-and-how
15:26 moritz NotFound: nice post
15:27 NotFound Thanks
15:27 moritz NotFound: there are more reasons for bootstrapping a compiler, though
15:27 moritz NotFound: for example testing - doing two bootstrap compilations, and then binary compare the results
15:27 moritz (unless there are IDs with timestamps in it)
15:28 moritz and it forces you not to regress on important features
15:28 NotFound moritz: I just try to explain it to people not very versed in compilers, so I avoided providing too much information.
15:29 cconstantine joined #parrot
15:30 moritz ok
15:30 moritz NotFound: then maybe the "all respected languages are self-hosting" argument is the right for you
15:31 moritz C, Pascal, C++, various Lisp dialects, Eiffel etc.
15:31 cconstantine joined #parrot
15:31 NotFound Yes, but I'm sure not all people agree with such strong assertion.
15:31 moritz heh :-)
15:31 moritz s/all/most/
15:32 moritz anyway, it's a good post, I liked it
15:32 NotFound Larry Wall, for example X-)
15:33 moritz I'm sure we'll see a self-hosting Perl 6 compiler in a few years or decades :-)
15:33 NotFound Hope so.
15:38 dalek winxed: r222 | julian.notfound++ | trunk/examples/parser.winxed:
15:38 dalek winxed: implement using statements in example parser, making it able to pass some tests
15:38 dalek winxed: review: http://code.google.com/p/w​inxed/source/detail?r=222
15:45 payload joined #parrot
15:53 kthakore moritz: hi
15:54 moritz kthakore: hola
15:54 kthakore moritz: is there a way to vizulize the NFA of a PGE grammar file
15:54 kthakore moritz: a la Antlrworks?
15:54 moritz kthakore: I don't think so... but it's really pmichaud you should ask
15:54 kthakore ok
15:54 kthakore pmichaud: hi
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16:55 kthakore moritz: pretty quite today US thanksgiving eh
16:55 dalek winxed: r223 | julian.notfound++ | trunk/examples/parser.winxed:
16:55 dalek winxed: prefix ++ operator in example parser
16:55 dalek winxed: review: http://code.google.com/p/w​inxed/source/detail?r=223
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17:58 dalek winxed: r224 | julian.notfound++ | trunk/examples/parser.winxed:
17:58 dalek winxed: example parser: <, >, <= and >= operators, and refactor of == and !=
17:58 dalek winxed: review: http://code.google.com/p/w​inxed/source/detail?r=224
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18:09 dalek parrot: r42810 | mikehh++ | trunk/t/compilers/json/from_parrot.t:
18:09 dalek parrot: convert test to pir - based on patch by bubaflub++ (TT #1333)
18:09 dalek parrot: review: https://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/42810/
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18:22 mikehh messages
18:23 darbelo You have no messages waiting.
18:23 darbelo ;)
18:24 mikehh darbelo: :-}
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18:55 dalek parrot: r42811 | mikehh++ | trunk/t/compilers/pge/02-match.t:
18:55 dalek parrot: convert test to pir - from patch by bubaflub++ (TT #1334)
18:55 dalek parrot: review: https://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/42811/
18:56 dalek winxed: r225 | julian.notfound++ | trunk/examples/parser.winxed:
18:56 dalek winxed: parser example: get labels from outer blocks, on line arrays
18:56 dalek winxed: review: http://code.google.com/p/w​inxed/source/detail?r=225
18:56 dukeleto 'ello
19:01 dalek winxed: r226 | julian.notfound++ | trunk/examples/parser.winxed:
19:01 dalek winxed: parser example: fix string add
19:01 dalek winxed: review: http://code.google.com/p/w​inxed/source/detail?r=226
19:01 darbelo \o
19:01 NotFound o/
19:02 NotFound Looks like today all people is busy killing turkeys.
19:03 NotFound ETOOMUCHUSA
19:04 darbelo I'm just getting back to speed after the last round of exams.
19:04 darbelo I have so much time now I slept like 8 full hours last night.
19:05 NotFound Good
19:05 darbelo I'll probably break something big in the next 24-48 hours.
19:06 darbelo ;)
19:07 NotFound If you have plenty of time, please take a look at my last Winxed post: http://notfound.posterous.com/​self-hosted-winxed-why-and-how
19:08 darbelo (bootstrapping)++
19:09 darbelo Wait, popularity of Pascal? I didn't know it had that ;)
19:10 NotFound I intentionally don't put time references ;)
19:10 NotFound But I can quote '80 magazines if you want ;)
19:11 NotFound I just try to show that world don't started with the JVM
19:17 PacoLinux curiosly : James Gosling cites UCSD Pascal as a key influence (along with the Smalltalk virtual machine) on the design of the Java virtual machine.
19:17 PacoLinux from : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UCSD_p-System
19:20 NotFound But surely many young programmers didn't even know who is Gosling ;)
19:20 mikehh I did a lot of work with UCSD p-syatem in the 1980's and early '90s
19:28 dalek parrot: r42812 | mikehh++ | trunk/t/compilers/pge/04-compile.t:
19:28 dalek parrot: convert test to pir - from patch by bubaflub++ (TT #1335)
19:28 dalek parrot: review: https://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/42812/
19:32 cotto seen chromatic
19:32 purl chromatic was last seen on #parrot 5 days, 2 hours, 20 minutes and 43 seconds ago, saying: msg kid51 RT #56110 can stay closed.  The final message in RT #60000 can become a new TT.  [Nov 21 17:10:18 2009]
19:35 mikehh just curious - has purl stopped updating karma?
19:35 darbelo karma mikehh
19:35 purl mikehh has karma of 295
19:35 darbelo mikehh++
19:35 darbelo mikehh++
19:35 darbelo karma mikehh
19:35 purl mikehh has karma of 297
19:35 darbelo Seems to work.
19:36 japhb NotFound, just started reading your self-host post.  Just as a side note, it is unusual to refer to a computer program with a gendered pronoun in English ... "it" and "itself" are more common.
19:37 mikehh don't know - I had a bunch of commits and it usually updates karma which is why I had bubaflub++ in the comment and it didn't update
19:38 mikehh or is purl ignoring dalek?
19:38 darbelo Hmm. purl can only handle one "++" per line.
19:38 darbelo karma nobody
19:38 purl nobody has karma of -1
19:38 darbelo mikehh++ nobody++
19:38 darbelo karma nobody
19:38 purl nobody has neutral karma
19:38 NotFound japhb: my english is not good enough to locate the sentences with that error.
19:39 japhb NotFound, I'd say search for 'him', 'his', and 'himself', and replace with 'it', 'its', and 'itself' respectively.
19:39 mikehh comments from dalek are not on the same line anyway
19:39 NotFound japhb: nice, thanks.
19:40 japhb NotFound, np.  :-)
19:40 darbelo japhb: "take part in his development"?
19:40 NotFound BTW my english has improved a lot if that are the only things that called your attention :)
19:41 japhb darbelo, that one depends on whether 'his' refers to the author or the project.
19:41 japhb I read it as the latter.
19:42 japhb NotFound, there were a couple minor things (mostly bits that were implied rather than stated, which I often find in non-native English writing), but the pronouns were the only thing that rose above the level of an "accent"
19:42 chromatic joined #parrot
19:44 darbelo Spanish has no 'it', it takes actual effort to not use gendered pronouns.
19:45 darbelo I actually read that and saw nothing wrong with it until you mentioned that.
19:46 japhb darbelo, I'm not surprised.  I have the opposite problem using romance languages. I have to remember French nouns with the articles attached, or I'd never remember which gender to use.
19:46 NotFound That's the problem, I don't fix that error because I don't see it X-)
19:49 chromatic eso
19:52 cotto hio chromatic
19:55 chromatic That profile is hard to read; there are a lot of cycles that confuse Callgrind.
20:06 kthakore leto: are you available for a design exaplaing on the blitzkost signature in p5invocation?
20:10 dalek TT #1268 closed by mikehh++: [PATCH] convert t/op/time.t to PIR
20:10 dalek TT #1311 closed by mikehh++: [PATCH] convert t/library/uuid.t to PIR
20:16 mikehh purl is ignoring dalek
20:18 mikehh I know she was making some rude comments, but that is where karma is picked up
20:21 cotto chromatic, I just re-ran nqp-rx against its own Actions.pm and I'm still not seeing anything.  There are about 16 billion instructions, but looking at the callgrind output it looks like only about 2.6 million instructions are spent in Parrot_Capture_mark.
20:22 cotto (That's looking directly at the file, not via kcachegrind.)
20:27 dukeleto kthakore: what do you mean?
20:28 chromatic Do you have cycle detection on or off?
20:28 cotto off
20:28 chromatic Let me run it again then.
20:29 cotto (though the % time spent in Parrot_gc_mark_and_sweep looks the same either way.
20:29 cotto )
20:33 kthakore dukeleto: um I have been looking at the page Allision gave me for accessing signatures
20:33 kthakore dukeleto: since the old way C structs are depreceated
20:34 kthakore dukeleto: but I am trying to understand as an overview what is going on there
20:34 kthakore dukeleto: let me get the exact code
20:35 kthakore dukeleto: src/pmc/p5invocation.pmc :45
20:36 kthakore dukeleto: we have PMC* arg and PMC* sig
20:37 kthakore dukeleto: from what I get here s(parrot) perldoc src/pmc/callsignature.pmc
20:38 chromatic If I disable cycle detection, Parrot_gc_mark_PMC_alive_fun() costs 632.48%, inclusive.
20:38 kthakore dukeleto: both args and sig are accessible from get_pmc()
20:38 chromatic Parrot_Capture_mark() costs 95.01%, inclusive.
20:39 kthakore dukeleto: but I have no clue what we are trying to do there ...
20:40 cotto chromatic, something's odd.
20:41 cotto Can you upload your callgrind.out file somewhere?
20:44 chromatic http://wgz.org/chromatic/t​mp/callgrind.out.1156.bz2
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20:47 dukeleto hola, backlogging
20:49 kthakore dukeleto: ??
20:49 cotto chromatic, forbidden
20:49 dukeleto kthakore: what are you exactly asking me?
20:49 kthakore dukeleto: um ... what p5invocation is supposed to do
20:49 chromatic cotto, try again please.
20:50 kthakore dukeleto: I need to rewrite getargs() so wanted to know logic there
20:50 dukeleto kthakore: it turns perl 5 calling conventions into parrot calling conventions
20:50 cotto mine at http://mksig.org/parrot/nqp_ac​tions_build.callgrind.out.bz2
20:51 dukeleto kthakore: actually, get_args seems to convert parrot calling conventions into perl5 cc
20:51 kthakore dukeleto: so like p5method(args) to parrot(args)
20:51 kthakore ??
20:51 kthakore dukeleto: that is what I was thinking
20:51 kthakore ok so I am not insane
20:51 cotto chromatic, on your file I also see 21.17% of the time spent in Parrot_gc_mark_and_sweep.
20:52 dukeleto kthakore: yes, you are correct
20:52 dukeleto kthakore: it converts the different ways that arguments can be passed to functions in perl 5/parrot
20:52 kthakore dukeleto: ah ok
20:53 kthakore so it takes a signature (just learned this today) p5methd(@ARGS) to
20:53 kthakore parrot(@ARGS) ?
20:53 kthakore but how do parrot signatures look like?
20:56 dukeleto kthakore: they look like that :)
20:56 kthakore reallly?
20:56 dukeleto kthakore: you can go look at the CallSignature PMC docs
20:57 dukeleto kthakore: they changed a lot recently from some branch merges, so blizkost has not yet been updated
20:57 kthakore dukeleto: from here (parrot) perldoc src/pmc/callsignature.pmc?
20:57 kthakore dukeleto: ya blitzkost is going to take some effort
20:58 kthakore dukeleto: but they are no longer goign to change PCC right?
20:58 cotto and now kcachegrind is freezing
20:58 kthakore chromatic: right?
20:58 kthakore 1.8 - 2.0 won't destroy PCC anymore?
20:58 dukeleto kthakore: this is what things used to look like: docs/pmc/subs.pod
20:58 dukeleto kthakore: that is all wrong now
20:59 dukeleto kthakore: or at least quite different in some ways
20:59 kthakore dukeleto: ok well I will keep trying ... I have to head into a meeting now
20:59 dukeleto 'ack -ai CallSignature docs/' returns nothing. that is scary.
20:59 kthakore so ttyl
20:59 kthakore dukeleto: indeed
20:59 dukeleto kthakore: learn about CallSignatures!
21:00 kthakore dukeleto: I am use perldoc src/pmc/callsignature.pmc for now
21:00 japhb (homemade chili and cornbread)++
21:00 kthakore dukeleto: send me links if you have some
21:00 kthakore thanks
21:07 mikehh All tests PASS (pre/post-config, smoke (#30206), fulltest) at r42812 - Ubuntu 9.10 amd64 (gcc with --optimize)
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21:27 dukeleto mikehh++
21:31 dalek winxed: r227 | julian.notfound++ | trunk/examples/parser.winxed:
21:31 dalek winxed: parser example: fix an error message that doesn't reported position
21:31 dalek winxed: review: http://code.google.com/p/w​inxed/source/detail?r=227
21:38 dukeleto mikehh: please close RT tickets!
21:39 darbelo Weren't all of those closed already?
21:39 dukeleto mikehh: i just spent time applying bubaflubs patch and just realized you already did that
21:39 dukeleto TT #1312 was left open
21:40 dukeleto which is was the first one i went for :)
21:40 dalek TT #1312 closed by dukeleto++: [PATCH] convert t/library/protoobject.t to PIR
21:40 darbelo s/RT/Trac/ ?
21:40 dukeleto ug
21:40 dukeleto yes,
21:40 dukeleto mikehh: please close Trac tickets!
21:40 * dukeleto deletes RT from memory banks
21:41 * darbelo gets unconfused.
21:41 mikehh dukeleto: oh dear - I think I have applied the patches bubaflub++ posted
21:41 dukeleto it looks like TT 1333,1334,1335 are also left open
21:41 dukeleto but applied
21:41 dukeleto mikehh: can you close all the ones that you have applied?
21:41 dalek winxed: r228 | julian.notfound++ | trunk/examples/parser.winxed:
21:41 dalek winxed: parser example: typed function parameters
21:41 dalek winxed: review: http://code.google.com/p/w​inxed/source/detail?r=228
21:42 mikehh sure - I was doing that when something else came up
21:42 dukeleto mikehh: no worries, i just started going through the patch queue and getting lots of conflicts :)
21:42 * dukeleto hates conflicts
21:43 chromatic cotto, toggle Skip Cycle Detection.
21:44 joeri joined #parrot
21:45 mikehh I mentioned before I think, but I commented the commits to give bubaflub++ the karma, but whoever assigns karma (i think purl) is ignoring dalek
21:51 dalek winxed: r229 | julian.notfound++ | trunk/ (2 files):
21:51 dalek winxed: rename and move example parser to winxedst1
21:51 dalek winxed: review: http://code.google.com/p/w​inxed/source/detail?r=229
21:57 dalek TT #1333 closed by mikehh++: [PATCH] convert t/compilers/json/from_parrot.t to PIR
22:00 dalek TT #1334 closed by mikehh++: [PATCH] convert t/compilers/pge/02-match.t to PIR
22:00 dalek TT #1335 closed by mikehh++: [PATCH] convert t/compilers/pge/04-compile.t to PIR
22:03 dalek parrot-plumage: 77f5ac2 | japhb++ | :
22:03 dalek parrot-plumage: [LIB,plumage] try() -> try {} or CATCH {}, Tene++ for NQP-rx features
22:03 dalek parrot-plumage: review: http://gitorious.org/parrot-plumage/parrot-plumag​e/commit/77f5ac2dd1081782a26f791c20041bec449d95b2
22:03 dalek parrot-plumage: 0729bc0 | japhb++ | :
22:03 dalek parrot-plumage: [CORE] Glue.pir: Remove old try() sub
22:03 dalek parrot-plumage: review: http://gitorious.org/parrot-plumage/parrot-plumag​e/commit/0729bc08ca526b5c77bc2ac0c087acc53be460d4
22:03 dalek parrot-plumage: a1dc6f8 | japhb++ | :
22:03 dalek parrot-plumage: [LIB,plumage] die() -> pir::die(), and get rid of Glue.pir implementa...
22:03 dalek parrot-plumage: review: http://gitorious.org/parrot-plumage/parrot-plumag​e/commit/a1dc6f809b81ae856834c9490b7fca32b13a26b2
22:03 dalek parrot-plumage: aee1a1f | japhb++ | :
22:03 dalek parrot-plumage: [LIB,plumage] does() -> pir::does__IPs(), and get rid of Glue.pir imp...
22:03 dalek parrot-plumage: review: http://gitorious.org/parrot-plumage/parrot-plumag​e/commit/aee1a1f69b448fc453fffeaa389dccb829e5e636
22:03 dalek parrot-plumage: e4bed10 | japhb++ | :
22:03 dalek parrot-plumage: [LIB,plumage] split() -> pir::split(); get rid of Glue.pir implementa...
22:03 dalek parrot-plumage: review: http://gitorious.org/parrot-plumage/parrot-plumag​e/commit/e4bed10edbfef8d2c0b7086c3b9ca9d3699f4c31
22:03 dalek parrot-plumage: 4ea086f | japhb++ | :
22:03 dalek parrot-plumage: [LIB,plumage] join() -> pir::join(); get rid of Glue.pir implementati...
22:04 dalek parrot-plumage: review: http://gitorious.org/parrot-plumage/parrot-plumag​e/commit/4ea086fa8dba84a605f734b44443fa71e6e27ad9
22:07 theory joined #parrot
22:17 dukeleto japhb: i see some yak shaving!
22:18 dukeleto mikehh: we will have to see about the karma. we need to just get bubaflub++ a commit bit :)
22:18 * dukeleto vouches for bubaflub++ having commit access
22:19 mikehh dukeleto: his patches look good - we need to bring it up at the next #parrotsketch - has he done a CLA
22:20 japhb dukeleto, Yaks?  What yaks?  All I see is a bunch of hairy four legged beasts with horns ....
22:22 mikehh japhb: GNU's perhaps
22:23 japhb It would be gnus to me.
22:24 mikehh naw - we need to parrot it about
22:26 * dukeleto stands back in awe
22:26 dukeleto mikehh: if he has done the CLA, then don't we just need to bug chromatic to turn his bit?
22:27 dukeleto mikehh: i think he hasn't done the CLA yet
22:31 mikehh joined #parrot
22:31 * mikehh my internet connection is having quite a few problems at the moment
22:40 chromatic The most recent CLA I've seen is from Gerd.
22:40 dalek winxed: r230 | julian.notfound++ | trunk/winxed (2 files):
22:40 dalek winxed: put stage 1 options on line with driver expectations and add --stage option to
22:40 dalek winxed: driver
22:40 dalek winxed: review: http://code.google.com/p/w​inxed/source/detail?r=230
22:42 cconstantine joined #parrot
23:00 dalek TT #1336 created by kurahaupo++: Convert t/pmc/bigint.t to PIR
23:03 mikehh dukeleto: you want to do that or shall I?
23:10 GeJ Good morning everyone
23:46 dalek parrot: r42813 | mikehh++ | trunk/t/pmc/bigint.t:
23:46 dalek parrot: convert to PIR - based on patch from kurahaupo++ (TT #1336)
23:46 dalek parrot: review: https://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/42813/
23:46 tetragon joined #parrot
23:46 dalek TT #1336 closed by mikehh++: Convert t/pmc/bigint.t to PIR

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