Camelia, the Perl 6 bug

IRC log for #parrot, 2009-12-08

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:00 chromatic FPA should use fixed-size allocation pool.
00:00 chromatic I don't want to patch it before we apply the JimmyZ patches though.
00:05 cotto_w0rk so much ado over a tiny patch
00:05 wayland76 Shakespeare! :)
00:06 cotto_w0rk no, not much ado about Shakespeare. ;)
00:18 dalek parrot-plumage: d84e0bd | japhb++ | docs/hacking/add-action.pod:
00:18 dalek parrot-plumage: [DOCS] Fix title inconsistency
00:18 dalek parrot-plumage: review: http://gitorious.org/parrot-plumage/parrot-plumag​e/commit/d84e0bd3cfe83e701a180cff768f163bba7777ec
00:18 dalek parrot-plumage: 08d2f35 | japhb++ | docs/hacking/ (2 files):
00:18 dalek parrot-plumage: [DOCS] Add Contributing and Internal Design docs
00:18 dalek parrot-plumage: review: http://gitorious.org/parrot-plumage/parrot-plumag​e/commit/08d2f35b60a00646d423db998a3413ee8bd8e72e
00:18 dalek parrot-plumage: 03435f3 | japhb++ | README:
00:18 dalek parrot-plumage: [META] Most of CONTRIBUTING section of README has moved; replace with short blurb and pointer to new location
00:18 dalek parrot-plumage: review: http://gitorious.org/parrot-plumage/parrot-plumag​e/commit/03435f3092e14c8c92044382bdab80339f504489
00:19 japhb Plumage now has hacking docs, with hopes to encourage contributors.  Feedback on http://gitorious.org/parrot-plumage/pa​rrot-plumage/trees/master/docs/hacking very much appreciated.  (Start with contributing.pod, then design-internals.pod, then the two add-* documents; don't worry, they're all pretty short.)
00:21 kid51 japhb:  In TT #1216, Andy D has submitted a new patch to address the problem you had us revert the other day.  Can you try that out?
00:23 japhb kid51, sure, will do that in a few (have a couple immediate tasks to handle first).
00:24 kid51 thanks
00:37 japhb OK, running a build at HEAD before the patch, as a baseline
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00:44 japhb OK, baseline good, retrying with patch applied
00:46 dalek TT #1363 created by plobsing++: Parrot_OS_Exec_Command(_Argv)? unused
00:48 japhb worked, committed
00:57 dalek parrot: r42932 | japhb++ | trunk/config/gen/makefiles/docs.in:
00:57 dalek parrot: [BUILD] Second try at TT #1216, doughera++
00:57 dalek parrot: review: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/42932/
00:58 wayland76 Is my build supposed to say this?    parrot-1.6.0/blib/lib/libparrot.so: undefined reference to `clock_gettime'
00:58 wayland76 Fedora 11
00:58 wayland76 It was in this line: gcc -o miniparrot src/main.o src/null_config.o -L/home/wayland/Science/Computer/s​​rc/rpm/BUILD/parrot-1.6.0/blib/lib -lparrot -licuuc -licudata -lpthread -lm   -lcurses -lm -lgmp -lreadline  -Wl,-E
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01:01 dalek matrixy: c4b1b92 | Whiteknight++ |  (17 files):
01:01 dalek matrixy: Merge branch 'master' of git@github.com:Whiteknight/matrixy
01:01 dalek matrixy: review: http://github.com/Whiteknight/matrixy/commi​t/c4b1b921be1ea22043a98595f8004516eb0ee528
01:01 dalek matrixy: 55ef25f | Whiteknight++ |  (8 files):
01:01 dalek matrixy: fix a bunch of tests that were failing after the recent changes. More to fix still
01:01 dalek matrixy: review: http://github.com/Whiteknight/matrixy/commi​t/55ef25f047c594cc2ec75e1003ee295e24ac0bab
01:01 dalek matrixy: 11d96e7 | Whiteknight++ | src/internals/range.pir:
01:01 dalek matrixy: add a new file to implement ranges
01:01 dalek matrixy: review: http://github.com/Whiteknight/matrixy/commi​t/11d96e7e08a958982ac2e6ea5742d5b7e09366fa
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01:02 cotto_w0rk wayland76, no, you definitely shouldn't be seeing that.
01:10 cotto_w0rk wayland76, bug me about it in a couple hours when I get home.
01:32 wayland76 cotto_w0rk: Will try to remember to do that
01:33 cotto_w0rk wayland76, O
01:33 cotto_w0rk I'm heading home now.  Hopefully I won't get amnesia on the way. ;)
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02:03 dalek parrot: r42933 | jkeenan++ | trunk (2 files):
02:03 dalek parrot: Applying patch submitted by jimmy++ to use GET_ATTR syntax in �http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/ticket/1357.
02:03 dalek parrot: review: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/42933/
02:05 JimmyZ oh parrot is the TR/Dropper.Gen Trojan? detected by AntiVir
02:07 wayland76 Incidentally, that build message wasn't quite right.  Here's the actual one:
02:07 wayland76 parrot-1.8.0/blib/lib/libparrot.so: undefined reference to `clock_gettime'
02:07 wayland76 gcc -o miniparrot src/main.o src/null_config.o -L/home/wayland/Science/Computer/s​rc/rpm/BUILD/parrot-1.8.0/blib/lib -lparrot -licuuc -licudata -lpthread -lm   -lcurses -lm -lgmp -lreadline  -Wl,-E
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02:18 cotto It's too bad I'm not here to look into that.
02:18 cotto Oh well.  It can't be helped.
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02:19 dalek parrot: r42934 | jkeenan++ | trunk/src/oo.c:
02:19 dalek parrot: Applying patch submitted by jimmy++ in �http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/ticket/1280:  eliminate superfluous variable.
02:19 dalek parrot: review: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/42934/
02:28 wayland76 purl, cotto?
02:28 purl i heard cotto was Christoph Otto <mailto:christoph@mksig.org> or a cooked salami or The Decider
02:28 cotto hi
02:29 cotto I'm The Decider?
02:29 wayland76 I was checking to see if purl thought you were a liar :)
02:29 wayland76 Apparently
02:29 wayland76 (liar because you said you weren't there, of course :) )
02:29 wayland76 But now, since you're not a liar
02:29 wayland76 ...
02:29 wayland76 maybe you can decide :)
02:30 cotto wayland76, have you gotten that error before?
02:30 wayland76 Yes, once with Parrot 1.6.0 and once with parrot 1.8.0
02:31 cotto Have you had a successful build?
02:31 wayland76 But no-one answered me with the 1.6.0 error
02:31 wayland76 Not recently
02:31 cotto well crud
02:31 wayland76 Not since I moved to Fedora 11
02:32 wayland76 (But that took a bit, so it may've been something else)
02:32 wayland76 Oh, and I'm doing this as an RPM build, which means that it is trying to build everything in the directory mentioned above
02:32 wayland76 But that shouldn't be a problem
02:32 wayland76 RPM builds used to work
02:33 cotto wayland76, can you rerun that gcc line but add -lrt
02:33 wayland76 will try...
02:34 wayland76 Yeah, that fixes it
02:35 cotto fun times
02:35 wayland76 What's rt?
02:35 purl rt is just RT (http://bestpractical.com/rt) or (:rt3) or (: rt bugs) or Obra's trouble ticketing system or the first IBM RISC workstation (http://www.contrib.andrew.c​mu.edu/~shadow/ibmrt.html) or the bombsquad or the Right Thing or very very capable and open-source or an application framework that bundles a ticketing system or obra's baby or SOOOO slow :-S or email mailto:perlbug-owner@perl.org for access
02:36 wayland76 Oh, part of glibc
02:36 dalek parrot: r42935 | jkeenan++ | trunk/src/pmc/arrayiterator.pmc:
02:36 dalek parrot: Applying patch submitted by jimmy++ in
02:36 dalek parrot: �http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/ticket/1349:  use GET_ATTR syntax in
02:36 dalek parrot: src/pmc/arrayiterator.pmc.
02:36 dalek parrot: review: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/42935/
02:36 cotto I don't know why Fedora 11 needs that added explicitly, but it doesn't seem to hurt my ubuntu system either way.
02:37 cotto Thanks.
02:39 wayland76 Ah, we add it to C_LIBS in the Makefile, right?
02:40 cotto kinda
02:40 wayland76 Ah, that's auto-generated
02:40 cotto It'll mean some digging through Configure.pl et al, but that's the desired end effect.
02:41 wayland76 #
02:43 kid51 grep -n C_LIBS config/gen/makefiles/root.in
02:43 cotto next step: figure out what's used to populate @libs@ in the makefile template
02:44 nopaste "kid51" at 70.85.31.226 pasted "C_LIBS under config/" (9 lines) at http://nopaste.snit.ch/18995
02:45 nopaste "kid51" at 70.85.31.226 pasted "'libs' under config/" (877 lines) at http://nopaste.snit.ch/18996
02:46 kid51 last paste is wrong; ignore
02:46 cotto Now I'm confused.  It looks like there's code in the linux hints file to add -lrt
02:46 nopaste "kid51" at 70.85.31.226 pasted "'libs' under config/" (191 lines) at http://nopaste.snit.ch/18997
02:46 kid51 That's better
02:47 cotto one step ahead of you
02:48 cotto wayland76, what does the first C_LIBS line in your root Makefile look like?
02:48 cotto Mine already has -lrt
02:48 wayland76 Mine doesn't
02:48 wayland76 (or it didn't -- I'm currently running Configure.pl)
02:48 kid51 cotto:  Mine is like yours
02:49 wayland76 Now it does
02:49 wayland76 I'm confused
02:49 wayland76 Anyway, I now have some idea where to look.  I'll try again, and see what I get
02:49 cotto welcome to the club
02:49 cotto sure
02:50 wayland76 Ah, I suspect I've spotted the problem.  Will do some more testing.
02:51 cotto w00t
02:52 cotto I'll look forward to the fix or some further explanation.
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02:55 wayland76 Yeah, ok.  Someone put something in an RPM spec file and didn't keep it in sync with the rest of parrot
02:56 wayland76 (incidentally, this doesn't invalidate my earlier patch, just something else that needs fixing)
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03:34 JimmyZ hello chromatic
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04:18 JimmyZ all builded .exe file in parrot detected as  TR/Dropper.Gen Trojan ;)
04:21 cotto He's on to us.  Everyone, execute plan 62-alpha.
04:30 wayland Btw, with the RPMs.  I eventually downloaded a Source RPM from rpmfind.  This means that someone out there is updating the parrot RPM package for Fedora, but not giving the .spec file back.  It's probably in a Fedora repo somewhere.
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05:18 chromatic Hm, make realclean in ext/nqp-rx/ really cleans things.
05:21 JimmyZ Hm, parrot.exe is virus since today morning. :(
05:21 dalek parrot: r42936 | chromatic++ | trunk (3 files):
05:22 dalek parrot: [PMC] Added macro to clear all PMC GC flags in Parrot_pmc_destroy().  This
05:22 dalek parrot: actually improves performance by 0.755% on the fib.pir NQP benchmark, though
05:22 dalek parrot: admittedly we should memset the PMC header to 0....
05:22 dalek parrot: review: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/42936/
05:22 dalek parrot: r42937 | chromatic++ | trunk/src/pmc/namespace.pmc:
05:22 dalek parrot: [PMC] Replaced a SUPER() call from NameSpace's mark() with a direct marking of
05:22 dalek parrot: the contained hash, for a minor performance improvement.
05:22 dalek parrot: review: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/42937/
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08:14 cotto poc?
08:14 purl poc is this chat, which is running under same in vmware or proof of concept. or piece of crap
08:16 brooksbp joined #parrot
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08:21 dalek parrot: r42938 | cotto++ | trunk (3 files):
08:21 dalek parrot: [profiling] various: make output configurable and extensible (and add POC noop output function)
08:21 dalek parrot: fix a copypasta goof in pprof output code, update pprof2cg.pl to parse the update pprof format
08:21 dalek parrot: The PARROT_PROFILING_FILENAME env var is now the output filename and
08:21 dalek parrot: PARROT_PROFILING_OUTPUT is the output type, if defined.
08:21 dalek parrot: review: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/42938/
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08:44 * chromatic now has :immediate subs stored in PBC when writing PBC.
08:45 chromatic I think I can fix a longstanding bug if I can run pragmas when loading PBC.
08:53 bacek joined #parrot
08:53 chromatic That seems to do it.
08:54 dalek parrot: r42939 | fperrad++ | trunk/compilers/pirc/src/bcgen.h:
08:54 dalek parrot: [pirc] fix build (revert r42929)
08:54 dalek parrot: review: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/42939/
08:59 chromatic bacek, you're going to like this commit.
09:03 chromatic Hopefully pmichaud will like it more.
09:07 dalek tapir: 365265f | fperrad++ | TODO:
09:07 dalek tapir: [TODO] extra properties for Smolder
09:08 dalek tapir: review: http://github.com/leto/tapir/commit/36​5265f2b9b9fab436e612254841846534c11401
09:10 dalek parrot: r42940 | chromatic++ | trunk/compilers/imcc (2 files):
09:10 dalek parrot: [IMCC] Delayed running :immediate subs when writing PBC and made reading PBC
09:10 dalek parrot: always run :immediate subs, so that type mapping and subclassing and other
09:10 dalek parrot: operations which depend on :immediate-time information (such as type numbers)
09:11 dalek parrot: are constant and sane at least within individual PBC files.
09:11 dalek parrot: This should make .const work much better for PBC.
09:11 dalek parrot: review: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/42940/
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09:43 dalek parrot: r42941 | mikehh++ | trunk/src/pmc/arrayiterator.pmc:
09:43 dalek parrot: fix codetest failure - trailing space in src/pmc/arrayiterator.pmc
09:43 dalek parrot: review: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/42941/
09:54 mikehh t/op/exceptions.t - Failed test:  31 in smoke #30706 and in all cores - r42941- Ubuntu 9.10 amd64 (gcc with --optimize)
09:56 mikehh sorry does not fail in testr - but other failures there
09:57 chromatic New failures?
10:00 mikehh in testr - t/dynpmc/subproxy.t - Failed test:  2 and t/pmc/sub.t - Failed test:  47
10:00 mikehh checking further
10:05 chromatic t/pmc/sub.t #62 fails at r42938.  t/dynpmc/subproxy.t #2 and t/pmc/sub.t #47 fail at r42939.
10:07 mikehh joined #parrot
10:08 * mikehh stoopid internet connection
10:12 mikehh bah - I get different results with a g++ build
10:23 mikehh with g++ build everything passes except testr - Ubuntu 9.10 amd64 (g++ with --optimize)
10:24 mikehh in testr - t/dynpmc/subproxy.t - Failed test:  2 and t/pmc/sub.t - Failed test:  47 and t/op/exceptions.t - Failed test:  31
10:25 mikehh I am going to do a gcc build from a clean install
10:32 dalek parrot: r42942 | fperrad++ | trunk/runtime/parrot/library/distutils.pir:
10:32 dalek parrot: [distutils] handling exception
10:32 dalek parrot: review: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/42942/
10:45 bacek joined #parrot
10:53 bacek o hai
10:54 mikehh hi bacek
10:57 bacek aloha mikehh
10:59 mikehh at r42942 gcc with --optimize - t/op/exceptions.t - Failed test:  31 in smoke (#30710) and all cores except testr - Ubuntu 9.10 amd64 (gcc with --optimize)
10:59 mikehh in testr - t/dynpmc/subproxy.t - Failed test:  2 and t/pmc/sub.t - Failed test:  47
11:00 chromatic Fix coming.
11:01 mikehh chromatic++
11:04 chromatic Warning: there is a bit of ugly here.
11:04 chromatic I do think that this helps Rakudo out a lot.
11:05 dalek parrot: r42943 | fperrad++ | trunk/runtime/parrot/library/distutils.pir:
11:05 dalek parrot: [distutils] add a flavor of unlink for array
11:05 dalek parrot: review: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/42943/
11:05 dalek parrot: r42944 | chromatic++ | trunk/t/pmc/sub.t:
11:05 dalek parrot: [t] Tidied one test in t/pmc/sub.t.
11:05 dalek parrot: review: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/42944/
11:05 dalek parrot: r42945 | chromatic++ | trunk/compilers/imcc (2 files):
11:05 dalek parrot: [PBC] Revised r42940 so that subs marked both :anon and :immediate *do* run
11:05 dalek parrot: immediately even when emitting PBC, but subs marked :immediate do not, so that
11:05 dalek parrot: they have the opportunity to run when *running* the PBC.  This has a faint odor
11:05 dalek parrot: to it, but until and unless we get a better syntax or heuristic for identifying
11:05 dalek parrot: code which has to run while emitting PBC or when starting the program, this is
11:05 dalek parrot: the way things have to be.  Note that if you want to HLL map your own custom
11:05 dalek parrot: Sub type (as seen in t/pmc/sub.t test #47), do the :anon and :immediate dance.
11:05 dalek parrot: review: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/42945/
11:07 chromatic Yes, that meant modifying both IMCC and the PBC generator.
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13:16 whiteknight good morning #parrot
13:18 lucian joined #parrot
13:22 whiteknight urg. Somebody committed >150MB of binary executable files into our source repo
13:22 whiteknight 150MB and still counting
13:23 moritz good morning whiteknight
13:23 moritz I hope it's not the parrot repo?
13:23 whiteknight good morning moritz
13:23 whiteknight no, the repo at ork
13:23 whiteknight work
13:23 whiteknight I'd probably get fired if I hit that person with a rolled-up newspaper and said "No! Bad Dog!"
13:24 whiteknight it would probably be worth it
13:24 moritz I'd love to see that on youtube :-)
13:24 moritz (not you getting fired, but you hitting that guy)
13:24 whiteknight some people cannot be taught
13:25 whiteknight 190MB and counting
13:25 whiteknight Oh jeez, they uploaded all those files and then BRANCHED
13:29 whiteknight this keeps getting worse and worse
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13:48 dalek parrot: r42946 | fperrad++ | trunk/runtime/parrot/library/distutils.pir:
13:48 dalek parrot: [distutils] fix glob
13:48 dalek parrot: review: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/42946/
14:00 nopaste "mikehh" at 81.149.189.7 pasted "test failures with t/op/exceptions.t at r42985 on Ubuntu 9.10 amd64" (116 lines) at http://nopaste.snit.ch/18999
14:02 mikehh it passes gcc no --optimize but fails one way or another with g++ and gcc with --optimize
14:05 mikehh got to go out for a bit - bbl
14:18 whiteknight urg
14:18 whiteknight optimization test failures are the worst
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14:33 dalek winxed: r251 | julian.notfound++ | trunk/winxedst1.winxed:
14:33 dalek winxed: incomplete implementation of operators new and =: in stage 1
14:33 dalek winxed: review: http://code.google.com/p/w​inxed/source/detail?r=251
14:34 moritz what is =: ?
14:36 Essobi I'll take operators for $100 Alex?
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16:05 NotFound moritz: =: is non binfding assignment
16:05 NotFound binding
16:07 dalek parrot-linear-algebra: 538247b | Whiteknight++ | src/pmc/nummatrix2d.pmc:
16:07 dalek parrot-linear-algebra: fix NumMatrix2D.get_string()
16:07 dalek parrot-linear-algebra: review: http://github.com/Whiteknight/parrot-linear-algebr​a/commit/538247b97f186336e34484aab9f06e52a6f27766
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16:40 dalek matrixy: 795fee6 | Whiteknight++ | src/internals/matrix.pir:
16:40 dalek matrixy: fix the utility to retrieve an iterable array from a matrix with for loops
16:40 dalek matrixy: review: http://github.com/Whiteknight/matrixy/commi​t/795fee60f130f83a542509bfa9560a7b1d94e9b4
16:40 dalek matrixy: 6cc9c51 | Whiteknight++ | src/internals/matrix.pir:
16:40 dalek matrixy: de-cruft matrix.pir
16:40 dalek matrixy: review: http://github.com/Whiteknight/matrixy/commi​t/6cc9c5171e68e5860ac1d5250e5ef913409ad3d1
16:40 dalek matrixy: 13a01d6 | Whiteknight++ |  (3 files):
16:40 dalek matrixy: fix the last test failures, all because of mismatched indices
16:40 dalek matrixy: review: http://github.com/Whiteknight/matrixy/commi​t/13a01d628f57825d2406435736e4c737358fec0f
16:40 dalek matrixy: 83baaf0 | Whiteknight++ | t/functions/ (2 files):
16:40 dalek matrixy: fix inverse.t and mtimes.t to fail more silently
16:40 dalek matrixy: review: http://github.com/Whiteknight/matrixy/commi​t/83baaf0b05bfc0ab54398c26ff7072814e39de77
16:40 dalek matrixy: 6fe5948 | Whiteknight++ | .gitignore:
16:40 dalek matrixy: update .gitignore to include common stuff
16:40 dalek matrixy: review: http://github.com/Whiteknight/matrixy/commi​t/6fe594818a70853df3406cdf328b022a8e848504
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16:57 dukeleto 'ello
16:58 cotto_w0rk Hi
16:58 cotto_w0rk .
16:58 bubaflub hello dukeleto
16:58 dukeleto bubaflub: howdy
16:59 dukeleto if anybody wants or needs a wave invite, let me know your email
17:10 dalek tracwiki: v117 | fperrad++ | Languages
17:10 dalek tracwiki: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/wiki/L​anguages?version=117&amp;action=diff
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17:16 bubaflub am i right in assuming that we want all existing tests that aren't in PIR converted to PIR?
17:17 cotto_w0rk bubaflub, yes
17:17 bubaflub phew.  ok.  because some of these haven't seen the light of day for a while.
17:17 cotto_w0rk some can't be converted currently and some will be easier as our test facilities improve, but that's the eventual goal
17:17 cotto_w0rk s/test/pir test/
17:17 bubaflub okey dokey.  yeah, i tried converting one but we need to improve the Dumper()
17:25 dukeleto bubaflub: hold up
17:26 dukeleto cotto_w0rk: that is mostly correct
17:26 dukeleto bubaflub: some tests for PCC should be left in PASM
17:26 bubaflub yeah, i haven't touched anything that does PIR2PASM stuff
17:26 dukeleto bubaflub: anything outside of t/compilers can be converted to PIR
17:27 bubaflub what's wrong with stuff in t/compilers?
17:27 bubaflub (just curious)
17:27 dukeleto bubaflub: some tests are written in PASM and they should be left that way.
17:27 bubaflub ok, i'll ignore all PASM tests
17:28 bubaflub there are a couple of tests in t/compilers/* i've converted
17:28 bubaflub but they are the ones that are in perl using pir_output_is and not pasm stuff
17:28 dukeleto bubaflub: which ones?
17:28 purl which ones are those
17:29 bubaflub some under t/compilers/imcc/syn/
17:29 mikehh dukeleto: which test must remain in as pasm rather than pir?
17:29 mikehh that should have been in/as
17:30 cotto_w0rk #ps in 60
17:30 dukeleto bubaflub: you converted subflags.t?
17:30 bubaflub nope.
17:31 bubaflub i've got labels, objects, op, scope, veracity
17:31 dukeleto bubaflub: that is the only PIR test in t/compilers/imcc/syn
17:31 bubaflub ah
17:31 bubaflub i see what you are asking
17:31 bubaflub yes, i think i submitted a patch for that
17:31 bubaflub someone else applied it
17:31 bubaflub i've got a batch of patches waiting
17:31 dalek matrixy: 95a1beb | Whiteknight++ | t (2 files):
17:31 dalek matrixy: add cell() and tests
17:31 dalek matrixy: review: http://github.com/Whiteknight/matrixy/commi​t/95a1beb9e5cb30484a11482ff207cae13ab8536f
17:32 dukeleto lets get some definitions straight. There are 4 kinds of tests in the parrot test suite: PIR, PASM, Perl+PIR,Perl+PASM
17:32 dukeleto if there are compiler tests written in pure PASM, don't touch them
17:32 bubaflub yep.
17:32 bubaflub the only ones i've touched are Perl+PIR
17:32 dukeleto if there are compiler tests written in Perl+PASM, you can convert them to pure PASM, if possible. Good luck.
17:33 dukeleto compiler tests in Perl+PIR are cool to translate to pure PIR, if possible
17:33 bubaflub yeah, that's what i've been doing
17:34 dukeleto bubaflub: yep, just clarifying
17:34 bubaflub i'll bring it up in the ps, but i'm just waiting to get my commit on to submit those patches directly
17:34 dukeleto bubaflub: basically, ask people fore translating tests in t/compilers
17:34 bubaflub okey dokey
17:34 cotto_w0rk plobsing doesn't have a bit of committing, correct?
17:34 dukeleto also, please make sure that "make corevm; make coretest" works when you translate a test
17:34 bubaflub ok
17:34 dukeleto currently, that is broken, do to your patches bubaflub :)
17:35 bubaflub really?
17:35 dukeleto mikehh applied them, not knowing that you can't use PGE in tests that run as part of "make coretest"
17:35 mikehh which test is broken - they all pass foir me
17:35 dukeleto you can't use "like()" in a test that is part of "coretest". it requires PGE and PGE is not built in corevm
17:35 bubaflub ah, that's not available by that time?
17:35 bubaflub yeah.
17:36 dukeleto mikehh: "make corevm; make coretest"
17:36 dukeleto i have a fix for corevm, but i didn't realize a bunch of tests in t/dynmpmc are generated, so I edited those files instead of what they are generated from
17:37 dukeleto bubaflub: you wanna fix that?
17:37 bubaflub yeah, i'll fix that
17:37 dukeleto bubaflub: you need to change a bunch of "like()"'s to "is()"'s
17:37 dukeleto bubaflub: and there is one test which uses a regex, one of the t/dynpmc/sha*.t tests.
17:37 moritz I think for many of those cases an index()-based contains() would do
17:38 dukeleto bubaflub: i suggest just checking the length of the string for now
17:38 bubaflub ok
17:38 dukeleto moritz: we have a tests that verifies, with a regex, that it is 40chars long and contains only 0-9a-f
17:38 dukeleto moritz: have an idea how to test that without PGE?
17:39 dukeleto moritz: "it" being a sha hash
17:39 moritz loop through it
17:39 dukeleto moritz: yeah, i thought of that, and then just wrote a test that checks the length :)
17:39 dukeleto bubaflub: write a test that loops thru it and verifies the proper characters are present :)
17:39 dukeleto bubaflub: for EXTRA CREDIT
17:39 bubaflub yeah, i'll have to modify the template that generates those tests
17:40 dukeleto bubaflub: yeah, it crypt.in in some directory somewhere
17:40 * dukeleto goes back in my cave
17:40 mikehh ah - I see what you are implying I usually run make test/make fulltest
17:40 dukeleto mikehh: yeah, if you could also add "make corevm;make coretest" to your routine, that would help A LOT
17:41 dukeleto mikehh: plobsing would be very happy, he was the one that told me coretest was broke
17:43 NotFound joined #parrot
17:45 bubaflub ah, i'm seeing some of the broken-ness in make coretest
17:45 bubaflub i'll get some patches together
17:47 particle joined #parrot
17:47 dukeleto bubaflub++
17:47 mikehh dukeleto: I'll look into it
17:48 bubaflub dukeleto: in t/op/inf_nan.t there are two uses of like()
17:48 mikehh just got a book on Garbage Collection - it's going to take a bit of studying
17:49 bubaflub instead of seeing if it matches this pattern, can i just "is" an exact amount?
17:51 cotto_w0rk PROTIP: A garbage collector and a garbage disposal do different things.
17:53 mikehh Garbage Collection - Algorithms for Automatic Dynamic Memory Management
17:53 allison joined #parrot
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17:54 cotto_w0rk We can always use another gc.
17:54 cotto_w0rk If it works, that's even better!
17:55 mikehh cotto_w0rk: you was thinking that maybe I was going to drive a dump-truck? :-}
17:57 mikehh joined #parrot
17:58 whiteknight mikehh: how is that book?
18:00 allison whiteknight: I've got a doc question... who are our users?
18:00 whiteknight allison: what do you mean?
18:00 allison whiteknight: I've been reading through the docs and they seem confused about the audience
18:00 dukeleto bubaflub: yes, just change them to is()
18:01 bubaflub dukeleto: done.  i'll put it in a ticket with the other patch to fix all the crypto dynpmcs
18:01 whiteknight allison: I would say users of Parrot directly (HLL developers, extension devs, embedders, PIR coders)
18:01 whiteknight anything else should be insulated from the VM
18:01 allison whiteknight: like, a lot of it seems to be focused on core developers
18:01 whiteknight but you're right, I've noticed that confusion in a lot of places
18:01 allison whiteknight: yes, I'd say so too
18:02 whiteknight I probably err on the side of talking to the core devs
18:02 allison whiteknight: (HLL devs, extenders and developers)
18:02 allison extenders and embedders
18:02 allison so, it's a bit odd that the top level of our docs are mostly about internals
18:02 bubaflub dukeleto: i'm also a little confused about this one function in config/gen/crypto.pm
18:03 bubaflub it's labelled SHA, but then there is SHA1 right below it.
18:03 bubaflub is that the original SHA?
18:03 allison whiteknight: what do you think about flipping it around? putting HLL development documentation right at the top?
18:03 whiteknight so long as it's consistent, I don't think I have a preference. HLL devs are probably our biggest and most important demographic though
18:04 allison whiteknight: like, first thing anyone sees is "here's how to develop a language on Parrot"
18:04 allison seems sensible
18:04 mikehh whightknight: only just started reading it - looks v.good and comprehensive - should clear up some problems I have had understanding some of the papers
18:04 allison like, it's what I'd expect from lex/yacc
18:04 PerlJam allison: +1 for putting HLL stuff up front
18:05 whiteknight agreed
18:06 allison maybe that's the thing for me to do over the xmas break, writing the docs (and working on Pynie to test the docs)
18:07 allison well, cleaning up the docs. there is good material in there, but not well organized and some is out of date
18:07 mikehh sorry typing errors again
18:07 mikehh whiteknight: only just started reading it - looks v.good and comprehensive - should clear up some problems I have had understanding some of the papers
18:08 bubaflub dukeleto: the SHA thingy might actually refer to SHA-0
18:08 whiteknight mikehh: thanks
18:08 plobsing joined #parrot
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18:11 mikehh whiteknight: I'll report back in a couple of days
18:11 whiteknight awesome. I look forward to it
18:11 hercynium joined #parrot
18:12 dalek winxed: r252 | julian.notfound++ | trunk/winxedst1.winxed:
18:12 dalek winxed: improve implementation of operator =: in stage 1
18:12 dalek winxed: review: http://code.google.com/p/w​inxed/source/detail?r=252
18:14 Tene allison: +1
18:14 purl 1
18:14 Tene allison: interested in having pynie migrated to using nqp-rx from PGE?
18:15 allison Tene: yes, I was going to work on it next week, but don't let me block you
18:15 allison Tene: or, we could work together
18:16 allison Tene: I haven't looked at nqp-rx at all yet, so it would be good to see how it all goes together
18:16 Tene The main item I need to work out still is the optree stuff, so I still need to migrate abc first.
18:16 allison Tene: you have a commit-bit on the pynie repo, right?
18:16 Tene I believe so, yes.
18:17 allison Tene: okay, can I ask you questions?
18:17 allison Tene: as I start on it?
18:17 Tene allison: Yes, please feel free.
18:20 whiteknight I need to update Matrixy to NQP-RX too. I should start on that this week
18:23 dalek TT #1364 created by bubaflub++: [PATCH] fix coretest
18:23 brrant joined #parrot
18:24 bubaflub dukeleto et al: TT #1364 fixes make coretest on my system, should work elsewhere
18:24 chromatic joined #parrot
18:24 barney joined #parrot
18:29 simcop2387_ joined #parrot
18:30 mikehh #ps time
18:32 chromatic Hello, everyone.
18:32 allison other channel?
18:32 purl other channel is probably the weekly parrot "design" meeting. more of a progress report for various developers.
18:32 chromatic oh yes
18:34 davidfetter joined #parrot
18:34 whiteknight shit, today is tuesday, isn't it?
18:36 bubaflub whiteknight: indeed.
18:36 whiteknight I'm stupid
18:36 dalek winxed: r253 | julian.notfound++ | trunk/winxedst1.winxed:
18:36 dalek winxed: instanceof operator in stage 1
18:36 dalek winxed: review: http://code.google.com/p/w​inxed/source/detail?r=253
18:37 payload joined #parrot
18:41 dalek winxed: r254 | julian.notfound++ | trunk/Makefile:
18:41 dalek winxed: more passing tests in stage 1
18:41 dalek winxed: review: http://code.google.com/p/w​inxed/source/detail?r=254
18:47 gaz joined #parrot
18:53 Topic for #parrotis now Parrot 1.8.0 Zygodactyly released | Priority: define 2010 Roadmap | Priority: https://trac.parrot.org/parr​ot/wiki/ClassVtableOverrides | Latest modified TT's: http://icanhaz.com/parrotbugs | Parrot Languages: http://icanhaz.com/parrotlang
19:03 bacek joined #parrot
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19:35 bacek joined #parrot
19:39 bacek Good morning
19:39 bubaflub left #parrot
19:40 Tene HI BACEK
19:40 * bacek running away scared and screaming
19:40 bacek :)
19:41 bubaflub joined #parrot
19:43 moritz too bad that Azerbaijan has .gov, .com etc. second level domains - otherwise the domain icanh.az would be possible :-)
19:43 japhb oooh
19:43 dukeleto moritz: maybe icanh.az.us ?
19:44 dukeleto moritz: you might have to have some friends in the Arizona state gov to pull that off, though :)
19:44 moritz :-)
19:52 whiteknight the planning meeting is on Dec 13?
19:55 brooksbp joined #parrot
20:08 chromatic yes
20:12 bacek Is it for planning World domination or just 2.0 release?
20:12 bubaflub both?
20:12 purl both are listed as unauthorized releases, would that have anything to do with it?
20:13 chromatic What's the difference?
20:13 purl the difference is not enough to make the US the only super power.
20:18 bacek 2.0 is just "production ready". "World Domination" includes a lot of marketing, so people will not miss the point.
20:19 bubaflub oh, i said mine in jest
20:25 dalek parrot: r42947 | fperrad++ | trunk/tools/install (2 files):
20:25 dalek parrot: [install] attempt to fix TT #1360
20:25 dalek parrot: review: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/42947/
20:25 whiteknight I hope the meeting covers major milestones at least through 2.6, and ideally through 3.0
20:25 cotto_w0rk That's a lot to cover in three hours over irc.
20:26 whiteknight I would be happy with a rough outline, if nothing else
20:27 whiteknight details on important projects can be saved for a different meeting(s)
20:28 whiteknight But I strongly suspect we're going to want to push optimization, GC, JIT, improved threading support, and async IO between 2.0 and 3.0
20:28 whiteknight at least, those are things I want to have added to the list
20:29 bacek "optimization"? "threading support"?
20:29 bacek There is no such things in Parrot atm
20:30 moritz and while I've seen lots of people interested in optimizations, there doesn't seem to be a real interest in threading
20:30 PerlJam bacek: Parrot 2.0 doesn't exist yet either. :)
20:30 moritz or maybe nobody feels up to the task
20:30 PerlJam moritz: you mean from implementors.  There seems to be interest from Parrot users.
20:31 chromatic Or maybe we're not very good at working on these things, week by week.
20:31 moritz PerlJam: yes
20:31 moritz tt #757 is a major blocker for HLL threads
20:32 moritz and has patches for 4 months
20:32 moritz and all my attempts to bring somebody who understands it to review those patches have failed
20:32 moritz like, mentioning it a few times here on IRC, and at least twice on #parrotsketch
20:33 whiteknight I have a strong interest in threading. I would use it a lot if we had a robust and scalable implementation
20:33 whiteknight optimizations, both at the C level and PIR/PAST levels would be great
20:33 moritz yes, from a user perspective many are interested
20:35 chromatic I don't buy all that.
20:35 moritz what don't you buy?
20:35 chromatic I can tell you exactly how to fix our performance problems.
20:35 moritz I was more talking about threading, not performance
20:35 bacek chromatic, rewrite from scratch in C++?
20:35 chromatic Nope.
20:36 chromatic 1) Get rid of the C/PIR barrier
20:36 chromatic 2) Make it possible to perform escape analysis to identify immediately recyclable garbage
20:36 chromatic 3) Migrate to a generational GC
20:36 chromatic 4) Allow inlining of accessors
20:37 bacek "4)" is for current VTABLEs?
20:37 PerlJam chromatic: could you re-order those based on ease of implementation?  Perhaps that would aid in something getting implemented.
20:37 chromatic 4) is for everything
20:38 PerlJam (from where I sit, it looks like 4, 2, 1, 3, but there is much I do not know)
20:38 chromatic Those are long term.
20:39 chromatic We need to migrate to NQP-based emitters for PMCs and ops first.
20:39 bacek chromatic, it's hard to achieve it in "pure C"...
20:39 whiteknight chromatic: I agree. If we could put together a concerted community effort to do that, it would be nice
20:40 cotto_w0rk chromatic, how close to the jvm's instruction set do you think Lorito will be?  My perception is that the lack of a spec for Lorito is keeping us from moving in that direction, so looking at an existing vm as a starting point could get us moving.
20:40 whiteknight I think we could drop a prototype by 2.6 if we all pushed
20:40 chromatic I think Lorito ops should look more like libjit's ops.
20:40 whiteknight libjit? even though we are targetting LLVM?
20:40 whiteknight (initially)
20:40 chromatic Yep.
20:41 whiteknight I haven't seen any good documentation for libjit ops
20:42 chromatic Basically it's ops that represent C operations.
20:44 chromatic I think the most effective way to figure out the ops we need is to try to emit these ops from the NQP-based op parser.
20:45 chromatic With that said, we have some obvious performance wins in the short term too.
20:45 chromatic 1) Merge RetCont and Context
20:45 chromatic 2) Merge Context and CallSig
20:45 chromatic 3) Make vtable overrides much cheaper (and this has a tasklist)
20:45 chromatic 4) Switch to the LL-sweepless GC
20:46 chromatic NQP also gets a boost if we can make EHs work with .const.
20:46 whiteknight chromatic: I've started a draft of the LL GC locally
20:47 chromatic That's good, but that's also part of the problem.
20:47 bacek chromatic, merging RetCont and Context isn't easy task...
20:47 chromatic I know these things aren't easy.
20:48 bacek OTOH I can merge Context and CallSig if someone will help over weekend with hackatron-style sprint for fixing/testing.
20:48 chromatic Let's work on that then.
20:48 chromatic whiteknight?  Tene?  cotto_w0rk?
20:48 bacek For any GC progress we have to encapsulate our GC properly.
20:49 bacek with this I'm departing to $dayjob
20:49 cotto_w0rk bye bacek
20:49 whiteknight I can help with the merge between baby cycles
20:50 chromatic bacek, if you can outline the tasks, we'll have more chance of getting it done.
20:51 cotto_w0rk I'll give what time I have this weekend to helping with merging the PMCs.  I'm not familiar with that code, so this'll be a good chance to increase the bus number there too.
20:52 cotto_w0rk a rough outline and some background on the wiki wouldn't hurt
20:52 payload joined #parrot
20:54 bacek Task list is simple:
20:54 bacek 1. Merge Context and CallSig.
20:54 bacek 2. ...
20:54 bacek 3. Profit!
20:54 cotto_w0rk I'll just jump in at step 3 if you don't mind. ;)
20:54 whiteknight what will it take to merge Context and CallSig?
20:54 whiteknight how much effort?
20:55 bacek whiteknight, about 8 hours for me.
20:55 cotto_w0rk so 40 hours for the rest of us ;)
20:55 whiteknight chromatic: I've been putting together the GC draft naively, but with an eye towards future advancements
20:55 bacek (rough estimation based on my expiriense)
20:56 whiteknight It should be relatively easy to convert to VCGC, or generational (or both) from this base
20:57 whiteknight I personally am rooting for VCGC
20:57 whiteknight but a generational variant of that would be hot too
20:57 cotto_w0rk whiteknight, this is a new GC API you're drafting?
20:58 whiteknight cotto_w0rk, not the API, a whole new core
21:04 chromatic VCGC?
21:05 whiteknight the threads-based GC, I passed around a paper for it a while back
21:05 cotto_w0rk vcgc is very concurrent garbage collector
21:05 whiteknight mark and sweep are each their own threads, so the main thread never blocks explicitly to GC
21:05 whiteknight and no fine-grained synchronization
21:06 cotto_w0rk vcgc is also http://doc.cat-v.org/inferno/concurrent_gc/
21:06 purl okay, cotto_w0rk.
21:06 chromatic Very Concurrent, that's the part I was missing.
21:06 whiteknight that's the one
21:06 dalek matrixy: c58eecd | Whiteknight++ | src/builtins/parrot_ (2 files):
21:06 dalek matrixy: add some functions to manipulate parrot objects better without descending into inline PIR
21:06 dalek matrixy: review: http://github.com/Whiteknight/matrixy/commi​t/c58eecd08bf54e86b920ccbb2375dd6a2eed8626
21:06 dalek matrixy: 9170801 | Whiteknight++ | toolbox/cell.m:
21:06 dalek matrixy: update cell.m to use the new parrot primitives instead of inline PIR
21:06 dalek matrixy: review: http://github.com/Whiteknight/matrixy/commi​t/917080193a6a56227de9d4837563dbc580d7bb09
21:06 dalek matrixy: 6a2877e | Whiteknight++ | t/parrot/parrot_ (2 files):
21:06 dalek matrixy: add tests for parrot_new and parrot_method
21:06 whiteknight it's very similar to the linked list idea, and lends itself nicely to generations
21:06 dalek matrixy: review: http://github.com/Whiteknight/matrixy/commi​t/6a2877ea415e1d206186d00b68ab9731b7fb6405
21:06 dalek matrixy: ab7df07 | Whiteknight++ | t (4 files):
21:06 dalek matrixy: update pi() and e() to use syntax closer to standard M. Add tests
21:06 dalek matrixy: review: http://github.com/Whiteknight/matrixy/commi​t/ab7df07a04c6f7b4af281746c9f91f4e6e0222db
21:07 whiteknight ...and with that I have to pack up and go home. Goodnight, meatbags
21:07 whiteknight </bender>
21:10 Tene chromatic: I'm in for a weekend hackathon.
21:10 chromatic I think three or four of us could get that branch ready for merge on Saturday.
21:11 cotto_w0rk we seem to have that
21:18 cognominal joined #parrot
21:28 dalek TT #873 closed by wayland++: Blanket ports exclusion needs discussion
21:33 dalek parrot: r42948 | Util++ | trunk/docs:
21:33 dalek parrot: [BUILD] TT #1216 - Added doc-prep to svn:ignore
21:33 dalek parrot: review: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/42948/
21:36 payload joined #parrot
21:45 dalek TT #1364 closed by mikehh++: [PATCH] fix coretest
21:46 joeri left #parrot
21:49 dalek parrot: r42949 | mikehh++ | trunk (3 files):
21:49 dalek parrot: fix make corevm/make coretest - from patch by bubaflub++
21:49 dalek parrot: review: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/42949/
22:02 dalek TT #1218 closed by Util++: [PATCH] t/dynpmc/foo2.t converted to PIR
22:03 dukeleto yay, coretest is fixed
22:03 dukeleto mikehh++, bubaflub++
22:03 dalek winxed: r255 | julian.notfound++ | trunk/t/stringarray.t:
22:03 dalek winxed: fix redeclaration in a test
22:03 dalek winxed: review: http://code.google.com/p/w​inxed/source/detail?r=255
22:06 dalek parrot: r42950 | Util++ | trunk/t/dynpmc/foo2.t:
22:06 dalek parrot: [t] TT #1218 - Converted t/dynpmc/foo2.t to PIR. bubaflub++
22:06 dalek parrot: review: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/42950/
22:06 japhb pmichaud, ping
22:21 iblechbot joined #parrot
22:30 Limbic_Region joined #parrot
22:31 Limbic_Region Is anyone having problems connecting to irc.freenode.net ?
22:33 moritz they had some links flapping all day
22:33 Limbic_Region I am getting - connection was forcefully rejected
22:33 moritz I'm connected to it, but seen many netsplits today
22:34 Limbic_Region well, I just picked a server in europe and it connected
22:46 dalek winxed: r256 | julian.notfound++ | trunk/ (3 files):
22:46 dalek winxed: improve class and new in stage 1
22:47 dalek winxed: review: http://code.google.com/p/w​inxed/source/detail?r=256
22:51 Whiteknight joined #parrot
23:13 mikehh joined #parrot
23:14 * dukeleto is using ruby (via capistrano). be very, very afraid.
23:16 * japhb runs away in horror
23:16 japhb Um, or maybe not.
23:17 cotto_w0rk What's so scary about that?  Are you using it to generate PHP or LOLCODE?
23:30 hercynium joined #parrot
23:41 kid51 joined #parrot

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