Camelia, the Perl 6 bug

IRC log for #parrot, 2009-12-18

Parrot | source cross referenced

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:00 particle partcl eats 4400 lines of pir for breakfast
00:01 chromatic partcl can't print the "H" in "Hello, world!" in fewer than 4400 lines of PIR.
00:01 Coke (setup.pir) I've seen no discussion about this. I find it much more obtuse than just using make.
00:01 cotto_work I mean to write by hand.
00:02 pmichaud Coke: (setup.pir)   right -- that was my comment above.  I haven't seen any real discussion annointing it as the "Parrot standard"
00:03 pmichaud I'm not saying it can never be so... but I'm not sure it's happened yet.
00:04 NotJack what is the likely problem if I'm running  perl tools/dev/mk_language_shell.pl mylangname
00:04 NotJack and getting perl tools/dev/mk_language_shell.pl mylangname
00:05 NotJack uh, i mean Unable to locate parrot_config. at Configure.pl line 45.
00:05 dukeleto NotJack: parrot_config is not in your PATH
00:06 dukeleto NotJack: probably you didn't install parrot
00:06 NotJack I did ....
00:06 dukeleto NotJack: what does "type parrot_config" say?
00:06 NotJack perl Configure.pl, make, make test (all OK), make install
00:06 dukeleto NotJack: which OS?
00:06 NotJack Cygwin on Windoes 7 x64
00:06 NotJack type parrot_config  parrot_config is /usr/local/bin/parrot_config
00:07 dukeleto NotJack: you are getting an error from Configure.pl when running mk_language_shell ?
00:07 NotJack yep
00:08 dukeleto NotJack: which version of parrot?
00:08 purl which version of parrot are you using?
00:08 NotJack This is Parrot version 1.4.0 built for i386-cygwin.
00:08 dukeleto NotJack: whoa!
00:09 NotJack ?
00:09 NotJack just downloaded it, said it's the stable version
00:09 dukeleto NotJack: you are correct. "stable" in the debian sense of "is really old" :)
00:09 Coke It sure is; but the next stable release is due out in about 3 weeks.
00:09 NotJack also, parrot_config --help just prints usage info
00:10 Coke if you could do 1.9.0, it's definitely shinier. If you're on IRC, you can probably just grab svn-latest. =-)
00:10 NotJack don't have SVN setup yet
00:10 NotJack new machine
00:10 purl well, new machine is here!  New machine is here!
00:10 dukeleto NotJack: we have tarballs
00:10 NotJack ok, let me grab those
00:10 NotJack what do I need to do to get the old version off/
00:10 NotJack make realclean?
00:10 purl i think make realclean is as strong as it gets
00:10 dukeleto NotJack: ftp://ftp.parrot.org/pub/pa​rrot/releases/devel/1.9.0/
00:10 NotJack purl, shut up
00:10 purl make me
00:11 NotJack purl shut up is yes, sir
00:11 purl ...but shut up is <reply> make me...
00:11 NotJack no, shut up is yes, sir
00:11 purl okay, NotJack.
00:11 cotto_work forget new machine
00:11 purl cotto_work: I forgot new machine
00:11 dukeleto NotJack: 1.4.0 is about to become unsupported in 3 weeks, so if you can verify that it happens on the latest version, that would be awesome
00:11 cotto_work forget make realclean
00:11 purl cotto_work: I forgot make realclean
00:12 Coke no, shut is <reply>Yes, sir.
00:12 purl okay, Coke.
00:12 Coke no, shut up is <reply>Yes, sir.
00:12 purl okay, Coke.
00:12 dukeleto NotJack: we don't have an uninstall target
00:12 NotJack so just rm -r parrot-1.4.0 ?
00:12 NotJack or what?
00:12 Coke yup.
00:12 dukeleto NotJack: the installed version?
00:12 purl the installed version is .04999_07
00:13 cotto_work forget the installed version
00:13 purl cotto_work: I forgot installed version
00:13 cotto_work also, go away
00:13 dukeleto NotJack: installing again will overwrite everything in /usr/local/bin
00:13 NotJack ok good
00:13 dukeleto NotJack: you can rm -rf /usr/local/bin/libparrot* if you want to be sure to not get wonky loading-the-wrong parrot errors
00:14 NotJack thanks, will do
00:15 NotJack installing now
00:15 dukeleto NotJack: sweet
00:15 NotJack man, and I already used up my good time-passer on the first make test....
00:15 cotto_work anyone know why pbc_dump messes up segment names on large pbc files?
00:16 dukeleto NotJack: make -j 3 test
00:16 NotJack which is what?
00:16 dukeleto NotJack: even if you have only 1 proc, the tests are IO bound
00:16 dukeleto NotJack: runs 3 tests at once
00:16 Coke dukeleto: no.
00:16 dukeleto Coke: no?
00:16 Coke make TEST_JOBS=3 test does that.
00:16 purl Maybe.
00:16 NotJack ah, ok, thanks.
00:16 NotJack I have 4 proc
00:16 NotJack with "hyperthreading" = "thread slowly"
00:16 dukeleto NotJack: then I would do 5 or 6 jobs then
00:17 Coke (it's a single test harness. you have to tell the harness to run multiple jobs, not make)
00:17 dukeleto Coke: touche
00:17 particle TEST_JOBS=6 make -j 5 test
00:17 dukeleto NotJack: make -j for compiling, TEST_JOBS=X for running tests
00:18 dukeleto i set TEST_JOBS in my .bashrc, so I forget about that
00:18 cotto_work or put both in an alias and don't worry about it
00:19 NotJack I hope to only have to run this once :)
00:21 NotJack this is running faster than last time
00:27 NotJack but man, a lot more tests are notok
00:33 dukeleto NotJack: something is up on your box
00:33 dukeleto NotJack: are they TODOed or FAILing?
00:33 NotJack No worries, they're TODO
00:33 NotJack there're just more of them than in 1.4
00:33 dukeleto NotJack:  we have a lot more tests than we did in 1.4 :)
00:34 NotJack woot, now perl tools/dev/mk_language_shell.pl mylangname works
00:35 NotJack and technically I have my first parrot language :)
00:36 dukeleto NotJack: congrats!
00:36 NotJack thanks.  now I guess it's reading time.  my first goal will be just to get the lexer working
00:36 dukeleto NotJack: welcome to the Parrot Ecosystem. Watch Your Step.
00:36 japhb bak
00:37 NotJack what's a good primer?
00:37 NotJack should I just work from the other examples? e.g. APL
00:38 Coke APL is old.
00:38 japhb Coke, pmichaud: regarding obtuseness of setup.pir: I believe that is primarily because it builds up HLL-style data structures in pure PIR.  It will be *much* simpler in NQP as setup.nqp, but that only became possible a day or two ago, so we haven't done the conversions yet.
00:38 darbelo APL is written with older tools. You should try a language written in nqp-rx
00:38 Coke partcl-nqp is mine, written in nqp-rx
00:38 japhb Like, say, NQP-rx itself.  ;-)
00:38 Coke also rakudo on the ng branch.
00:39 dukeleto NotJack: partcl-nqp is probably the best example for you
00:39 Coke partcl is probably easier to get a handle on.
00:39 darbelo or Tene's steme. Which is meant to be an example.
00:40 Coke japhb: I plan on checking it again then. (building up datastructures) this is why I wrote the json stuff.=-)
00:41 japhb Coke: I've been using the JSON a lot to work around previous NQP-rx lack of declarative data structures.  The pendantic nature of JSON is really annoying (at least half of the metadata files I get sent don't work, because they have a comma before a closing curly brace, or an unquoted hash key).
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00:42 japhb And you can't store anything more interesting than strings, numbers, bools, undef, array, and hash in JSON.
00:42 japhb Which means fixup passes.  Bleah.
00:46 NotJack ok, so I should work from the example of partcl
00:46 NotJack anything else worth reading before I dive in?
00:47 japhb NotJack, make sure you look at partcl-nqp; the original partcl is written for older tools.
00:47 Tene NotJack: you can find steme at http://github.com/tene/steme/
00:47 Coke partcl-nqp?
00:47 purl partcl-nqp is probably http://github.com/partcl/partcl-nqp
00:47 Tene steme?
00:47 purl steme is, like, very basic.  Just a s-exp parser and a few builtins
00:48 Tene no, steme is Tene's example scheme compiler for Parrot at http://github.com/tene/steme/
00:48 purl okay, Tene.
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00:59 dalek partcl-nqp: 10145f7 | coke++ |  (9 files):
00:59 dalek partcl-nqp: Minor doc updates; use [set]; carp on unused vars (except incr), fix build deps, stubs stubs stubs
00:59 dalek partcl-nqp: review: http://github.com/partcl/partcl-nqp/commit​/10145f7f2bdf7653f1cf4944fa59068b40e0163f
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01:10 * kid51 reads backscroll
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01:13 kid51 Re TEST_JOBS:  What are the system requirements for being able to make use of anything other than the default (1)?
01:13 kid51 e.g., do you have to have a multiprocessor machine (by some definition)?
01:13 japhb OK, after I understood the is(undef, 0) problem, I was able to find the problem in my $!-setting code.  The correct code is as follows:
01:13 japhb my $bang := pir::find_dynamic_lex('$!');
01:13 japhb pir::store_dynamic_lex__vsP('$!', $pipe.exit_status)
01:13 japhb unless pir::isnull($bang);
01:14 japhb I suppose I could golf that a bit, but at least it works now.  :-)
01:15 Coke kid51: no, but it helps.
01:16 kid51 On my average i386 box (or, in this case, VM) is there any advantage to running with that?
01:16 Coke if you put it too high, you'll choke the machine. you can probably get away with numcores+1, even if num is only one.
01:16 dalek partcl-nqp: af458d7 | coke++ | build/Makefile.in:
01:16 dalek partcl-nqp: fix deps; shuffle tests.
01:16 dalek partcl-nqp: review: http://github.com/partcl/partcl-nqp/commit​/af458d703e5dc60f513ebad86b5ab9b9666ed56c
01:16 kid51 I'll try it with 2.
01:22 kid51 Well, it doesn't seem to be significantly faster.
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01:36 * kid51 bored, goes trawling through tickets not touched in a long time
01:38 kid51 The patches last touched the greatest time in the past are almost all PIRC-related.
01:39 dalek parrot-plumage: f89bc1b | japhb++ |  (6 files):
01:39 dalek parrot-plumage: Convert run(), do_run(), and qx() from PIR to NQP; add store_dynlex_safely() NQP utility function; fix tests to match other changes
01:39 dalek parrot-plumage: review: http://gitorious.org/parrot-plumage/parrot-plumag​e/commit/f89bc1b3df9c815502257f2b9d93592c074f31c8
01:56 JimmyZ Coverity?
01:56 purl hmmm... Coverity is a commercial tool for Automated Error Prevention and Source Code analysis, See,  http://www.coverity.com/main.html or it has been used to measure the quality of the LAMP stack and other major source projects
01:57 JimmyZ Parrot Coverity?
02:10 dalek parrot: r43138 | jkeenan++ | trunk/src/io/socket_unix.c:
02:10 dalek parrot: Correct typos and awkward grammar in documentation.
02:10 dalek parrot: review: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/43138/
02:10 dalek parrot: r43139 | jkeenan++ | trunk/src/io/socket_win32.c:
02:10 dalek parrot: Correct typos and awkward grammar in documentation.
02:10 dalek parrot: review: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/43139/
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02:49 japhb Is there a by-string interface for getting info from the interpreter info objects, which are normally indexed by number or PASM macro?  For example, is there an equivalent to '$P0 = getinterp; $P1 = $P0[.IGLOBALS_CONFIG_HASH]' that indexes by string instead of int?  What about for interpinfo and sysinfo?
02:51 nopaste joined #parrot
02:52 cotto japhb, why do you want such an interface?
02:53 japhb Two reasons:
02:53 japhb 1. I want to be able to access that information from NQP, where I don't have the macros available, and don't want to hardwire magic numbers
02:54 japhb 2. Because the current interface isn't introspectable at all.
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02:55 cotto What do you mean by introspectable?
02:55 cotto that you can't ask the interp what's available?
02:55 japhb cotto, what I'd really like is a hash of all this information, that I could either pull info out of, or iterate over the kv pairs if I want
02:55 japhb Yeah, for example:
02:55 japhb Let's say that on MSWin32, sysinfo was able to provide extra information.  How would I find it?
02:56 japhb What if several platforms did this?
02:56 cotto istr that great care needs to be taken with data from interpinfo, but I can see the value of a smarter interface.
02:57 cotto (i.e. segfault-flavored things happen if the data are modified when they shouldn't be)
02:57 japhb certainly interpinfo__Pi is a little touchy, but __ii and __si should be safe
02:57 cotto japhb, I need to go afk but file a tt assigned to me and I'll take a look at it.
02:58 cotto mentioning the specific use case(s) you have in mind wouldn't hurt either
02:58 cotto afk
02:58 cotto &
02:58 dalek parrot: r43140 | jkeenan++ | trunk/t/codingstd/c_function_docs.t:
02:58 dalek parrot: Eliminate a contraction that was screwing up syntax highlighting.
02:58 dalek parrot: review: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/43140/
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03:16 japhb cotto, see #1378
03:17 seano joined #parrot
03:27 dukeleto 'ello
03:27 dalek TT #1378 created by japhb++: Hash or by-string interface to interp object / interpinfo / sysinfo
03:28 japhb o/ dukeleto
03:40 * dukeleto is at pdxhackathon
03:46 * japhb waves to the hackathoners
03:47 japhb Next time I visit my Portland relatives, I'll have to try to get to one of those.
03:49 japhb dukeleto, how often do they happen?
04:36 dukeleto japhb: every thursday
04:36 purl every thursday is 'Metallica Day' in _Masque's CD player.
04:36 dukeleto japhb: please do!
04:36 japhb nice
04:37 dukeleto japhb: yes, sometimes chromatic shows up and we hack on stuff
04:37 japhb How big is the usual crowd?
04:38 dukeleto japhb: 5-15 or so
04:38 japhb Not bad for a weekly event!
04:38 dukeleto 7 here right now
04:38 japhb That's around the size range we get for our monthly Perl Mongers
04:40 dukeleto japhb: yeah, it started as a perl hackathon but we just turned it into a social event. i get code written occasionally :)
04:40 japhb heh
04:40 dukeleto japhb: i am attempting to get setup.pir working correctly with Tapir right now
04:40 japhb excellent
04:40 japhb I'm phasing out Glue.pir chunk by chunk
04:41 dukeleto msg fperrad I am still getting the same error when building Tapir with your most recent patch: http://gist.github.com/259292
04:41 purl Message for fperrad stored.
04:41 dukeleto japhb: i see that. qx() in PIR lives on in the Tapir repo now :)
04:41 dukeleto japhb: i hacked it to return an exit code, too :)
04:42 japhb dukeleto, that has *long* existed in the Plumage version.
04:42 japhb hold on, I'll commit and push
04:45 dukeleto msg fperrad i686-apple-darwin9-g++-4.0.1: /Users/leto/svn/parrot/src/install_config.o: No such file or directory is the important line. shouldn't be parrot_config.o ?
04:45 purl Message for fperrad stored.
04:46 japhb Note that there currently now a PIR file generated from Util.nqp checked in just for use by Configure.nqp, but when Configure.nqp is replaced with setup.nqp, that will probably go away again
04:46 japhb pushed
04:48 japhb dukeleto, it's amazing how much cleaner a lot of this gets when you can use NQP syntax, even for pretty low-level stuff.
04:50 dalek parrot-plumage: 442ac02 | japhb++ |  (7 files):
04:50 dalek parrot-plumage: Move "setting globals" from PIR to NQP; rename old $*OS to correct $*OSNAME; add $*OS for Parrot magic OS object; check in a copy of generated Util.pir for use by Configure.nqp; fix .gitignore and Makefile.in to match
04:50 dalek parrot-plumage: review: http://gitorious.org/parrot-plumage/parrot-plumag​e/commit/442ac029459cb16e46cd07d67fc66c22f0dfdafc
04:50 dalek parrot-plumage: abaa1f1 | japhb++ | src/ (6 files):
04:50 dalek parrot-plumage: Drop PIR implementations of chdir(), cwd(), and unlink() in favor of just using OS directly
04:50 dalek parrot-plumage: review: http://gitorious.org/parrot-plumage/parrot-plumag​e/commit/abaa1f1aedb2784187c63a549fdc7222f54db8a4
04:52 dukeleto msg fperrad also see http://gist.github.com/259297 <-- the fakecutable is messed up with your most recent patch if I use my Makefile
04:52 purl Message for fperrad stored.
04:57 dalek tapir: 26ad7a3 | dukeleto++ | Makefile:
04:57 dalek tapir: Fix clean target
04:57 dalek tapir: review: http://github.com/leto/tapir/commit/26​ad7a3b0efa85b201a4d3eb2bd84dbb73e6616c
04:57 dalek tapir: 05acfec | dukeleto++ |  (2 files):
04:57 dalek tapir: Refactor of the metadata file and setup.pir from fperrad++
04:57 dalek tapir: review: http://github.com/leto/tapir/commit/05​acfecfeb6f4e01160cf28f199e5bd988dd65c6
05:00 dalek parrot-plumage: 43e4d4f | japhb++ | src/lib/ (2 files):
05:00 dalek parrot-plumage: Drop PIR readdir() in favor of OS object
05:00 dalek parrot-plumage: review: http://gitorious.org/parrot-plumage/parrot-plumag​e/commit/43e4d4f59fb0d4e29bf4b98900eb9f95dde1c002
05:10 dukeleto how do I time things from PIR?
05:11 PerlJam There's a time op similar to perl's time function.
05:11 PerlJam or do you mean in the sense of run something for no more than some time?
05:17 japhb The time op is full precision, thankfully.
05:26 dukeleto PerlJam: i mean, figuring out how long my program runs, from PIR
05:27 * dukeleto reads about the time op
05:49 dukeleto is it possible to profile a fakecutable ?
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06:03 dukeleto the time opcodes give my walltime, is there a way to get user time?
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06:10 cotto dukeleto, nafaik
06:11 dalek parrot-plumage: ff31388 | japhb++ | src/lib/ (3 files):
06:12 dalek parrot-plumage: Drop PIR mkdir() in favor of OS object
06:12 dalek parrot-plumage: review: http://gitorious.org/parrot-plumage/parrot-plumag​e/commit/ff31388a2149113c36c04020db9089fdb45917e0
06:12 dalek parrot-plumage: edf68bf | japhb++ | src/lib/ (2 files):
06:12 dalek parrot-plumage: Drop PIR stat() in favor of OS object; move PIR path_exists(), is_dir(), and fscat() to NQP; minor cleanups
06:12 dalek parrot-plumage: review: http://gitorious.org/parrot-plumage/parrot-plumag​e/commit/edf68bf7858e923506786a9632b6a871575580ad
06:12 dalek parrot-plumage: 42ec926 | japhb++ | src/lib/Util.nqp:
06:12 dalek parrot-plumage: Reorder subs to match POD; minor POD fix
06:12 dalek parrot-plumage: review: http://gitorious.org/parrot-plumage/parrot-plumag​e/commit/42ec926660fcf5ec34d81cf5b8db9245eb9100df
06:12 dalek parrot-plumage: 1413c76 | japhb++ |  (4 files):
06:12 dalek parrot-plumage: [LIB,TESTS] Work around lexicals v. INIT problem in NQP-rx; move path_exists() tests and add is_dir() tests
06:12 dalek parrot-plumage: review: http://gitorious.org/parrot-plumage/parrot-plumag​e/commit/1413c76ad4861be5517389eab22b4f55f8ad81b2
06:17 cotto dukeleto, is there a stronger reason than convenience that you'd like to profile a fakecutable?
07:01 cotto annotations are statically scoped, aren't they?
07:02 dukeleto cotto: i guess just convenience. Also, there must be some performance difference from profiling a fakecutable vs parrot foo.pir, right?
07:02 dukeleto cotto: is there a newbie guide to profiling in parrot? what do I need to know?
07:05 cotto dukeleto, there's docs/dev/profiling.pod.  It's a little sparse but let me know what more you'd like to see there and I'll be glad to add more info.
07:06 cotto Other than not having to compile pir to a packfile, I don't think there'd be much difference in performance between a fakecutable and handing the pbc to parrot.
07:06 cotto I can see how profiling a fakecutable could be useful though, since that's our current recommended way of distributing compiled HLL code.
07:08 dukeleto cotto: that document does not seem to talk about processing the output
07:10 cotto That's covered in tools/dev/pprof2cg.pl, but it wouldn't be a bad idea to add a pointer to profiling.pod.
07:11 dukeleto cotto: is there any equivalent of Perl 5's times() builtin in PIR?
07:11 dukeleto cotto: i want cuser, not wallclock time
07:13 cotto There's not one now.  It wouldn't be cross-platform, but one could be added.
07:13 dukeleto cotto: i'll take anything i can get at this point
07:13 dukeleto cotto: should I create a TT for that?
07:15 cotto Yes.  I'd add one but I'm just about off to bed.
07:20 dukeleto cotto: i got it
07:22 cotto thanks
07:22 * cotto is getting a lot of tickets
07:26 dalek tapir: 0da1fcc | dukeleto++ | t/harness.pir:
07:26 dalek tapir: Add the wallclock runtime of the test suite to the end of the run
07:26 dalek tapir: I would rather get the cuser time, but Parrot does not yet support that. I
07:26 dalek tapir: have created TT#1379 (http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/ticket/1379) to track this.
07:26 dalek tapir: review: http://github.com/leto/tapir/commit/0d​a1fcceaf2d40006a94e06571d9d77cea2a5b2d
07:33 dalek TT #1379 created by dukeleto++: Port Perl 5 built-in times() to PIR
07:35 dalek parrot: r43141 | tene++ | trunk (12 files):
07:35 dalek parrot: Fix Getopt::Obj without breaking existing uses.
07:35 dalek parrot: review: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/43141/
07:38 bacek joined #parrot
07:45 cotto hio bacek
07:45 bacek cotto, aloha
07:47 iblechbot joined #parrot
07:50 cotto Are you saying hello or goodbye?  I'm so confused.
07:51 cotto ;)
07:55 bacek cotto, it's "hello" for now
07:55 bacek but it's FRIDAY!!!
07:55 purl better start rolling
07:55 bacek :)
07:55 bacek purl++
07:56 chromatic joined #parrot
07:56 cotto Yup and I get to see Avatar in 3D in the afternoon in 16 short hours.
07:57 chromatic pfft
07:57 bacek cotto, I'm going to see it tomorrow with my kids.
07:57 cotto chromatic, TT #1379 needs input from someone with design sense.
07:58 chromatic I'd read the P5 source code to see what and how it does.
07:58 cotto sorry, 1378
07:59 cotto It'll be fun to see what kind of a movie $300 million buys.
08:00 chromatic Did you see Titanic?
08:00 chromatic It's Titanic for furries.
08:01 cotto Great.  Now I'm going to have really weird dreams.
08:01 chromatic I'd like to see a strawman of the TT #1378 interface before anyone works on it.
08:01 chromatic New tests would be very nice.
08:02 cotto night
08:02 cotto (hopefully one without furries)
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08:56 dalek parrot-plumage: dec2748 | japhb++ | src/lib/ (3 files):
08:56 dalek parrot-plumage: [LIB] Move print(),say(),slurp(),spew(),append() from PIR to NQP
08:56 dalek parrot-plumage: review: http://gitorious.org/parrot-plumage/parrot-plumag​e/commit/dec2748b3726e5c5ef86c1aa04827a2de86cb8f8
09:03 japhb OK, I think that's it for me for tonight.
09:03 dukeleto wow, japhb is on a roll
09:03 dukeleto japhb++ # rock on
09:04 japhb As of 9ab695b , the only PIR left to convert to NQP is the regex stuff.  If pmichaud++ has some cycles tomorrow to mentor me, I might be able to fix that up too.
09:04 japhb dukeleto, yup, and another push not yet shown up in dalek.  ;-)
09:05 dukeleto japhb: so plumage will be pure-NQP-rx?
09:05 japhb dukeleto, yes indeed.
09:05 dukeleto japhb: is that the goal?
09:05 dukeleto japhb: nice
09:06 dukeleto japhb: i may put Tapir in Plumage soon
09:06 japhb cool beans
09:06 dukeleto japhb: it is getting very close to being up to my standards for others to use :)
09:06 japhb heh
09:07 dalek parrot-plumage: 9ab695b | japhb++ | src/lib/ (3 files):
09:07 dalek parrot-plumage: [LIB] Move eval() from PIR to NQP; stop including no longer needed PASM macro files into Glue.pir
09:07 dalek parrot-plumage: review: http://gitorious.org/parrot-plumage/parrot-plumag​e/commit/9ab695b0f34bb8dc29ee29c1b33bb1f8caeebf73
09:07 dukeleto japhb: i would like to have out-of-order test detection and bailout detection before inflicting it upon the world
09:07 japhb "Release early, release often."  If I'd required Plumage to be up to my standards before letting others use it, it still wouldn't have any users.  :-)
09:07 dukeleto japhb: you are right. you might wake up and have a new test harness :)
09:08 japhb Oh goodie.
09:08 dukeleto japhb: i should time it to see how much faster Tapir will make Plumage's test suite
09:08 * dukeleto does that right now
09:08 japhb :-)
09:08 japhb Well, Plumage's test suite is about 1-2 orders of magnitude too small, so I doubt it even has a chance to make a huge difference.
09:10 japhb Anyway, my alarm goes off in less than 5.5 hours, so I'm off to bed now.
09:10 dukeleto japhb: yeah
09:10 japhb Have a good night!
09:10 dukeleto japhb: sleep() well!
09:10 japhb thx, you too
09:23 dukeleto what is the easiest way to shuffle a ResizablePMCArray?
09:24 dukeleto from PIR
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09:50 dukeleto msg pmichaud would it be reasonable to ask for -I as a commandline argument for nqp-rx ?
09:50 purl Message for pmichaud stored.
10:07 dalek tapir: 113ea77 | dukeleto++ | t/harness.pir:
10:07 dalek tapir: Use an FPA instead of a RPA for sprintf
10:07 dalek tapir: review: http://github.com/leto/tapir/commit/11​3ea77189f926c2e3782ec826deca5a30e04af3
10:07 dalek tapir: 481a1ef | dukeleto++ | TODO:
10:07 dalek tapir: Update TODO
10:07 dalek tapir: review: http://github.com/leto/tapir/commit/48​1a1ef95a05859b76aaf253c261f94cb36f2a9a
10:08 dalek tapir: a962d1e | dukeleto++ | t/harness.pir:
10:08 dalek tapir: Add -v/--verbose option
10:08 dalek tapir: review: http://github.com/leto/tapir/commit/a9​62d1e618dcd02a900cead1c272c02f443097fd
10:08 dalek tapir: edbc3b1 | dukeleto++ | t/harness.pir:
10:08 dalek tapir: Return a non-successful exit code if failed files are detected
10:08 dalek tapir: review: http://github.com/leto/tapir/commit/ed​bc3b1a624db3493180dcf9b143b619235e28ac
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13:01 JimmyZ good evening, #parrot
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13:37 fperrad time
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13:56 Infinoid happy Friday
13:58 JimmyZ happy Friday && good evening.
13:59 whiteknight joined #parrot
13:59 JimmyZ Infinoid: long time no see. how are you
14:09 whiteknight good morning #parrot
14:14 JimmyZ good morning, whiteknight. hey, I found a scanner.
14:15 whiteknight really? awesome
14:15 JimmyZ but it's not very clearly
14:15 JimmyZ hmm, clear
14:20 patspam joined #parrot
14:27 Coke (cuser time) ... what's wrong with the OS 'time' ?
14:31 payload joined #parrot
14:40 dalek TT #538 closed by pmichaud++: NQP list initializers
14:40 dalek TT #539 closed by pmichaud++: NQP does not autovivify "our @" but does for "my @"
14:56 pmichaud This just in on #perl6:
14:56 pmichaud 14:55 <anonperler> Hi. Just wanted to say thanks for making Rakudo self contained and easy to set up. Just built it using the instructions on day 1 of the advent calendar,  and even after `make install` the whole thing is still nicely contained in its own `rakudo` directory.
14:57 pmichaud setup.pir needs to be equally as simple.
14:57 pmichaud (or needs to be able to be equally as simple)
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15:48 Coke Ugh, today is perl's birthday?
15:48 chromatic 22
15:49 Coke TimToady++ # too cheap to send a card.
16:02 PerlJam too bad we couldn't have timed Rakudo* to correspond with Perl's birthday  :)
16:06 whiteknight dukeleto: ping
16:15 japhb pmichaud, ack
16:16 japhb pmichaud, I'll note that the next line:
16:16 japhb " Makes upgrading later on very easy (that is, `rm -fr rakudo` and then just download and build again)3."
16:17 japhb Makes it clear he likes it because his upgrading doesn't suck.
16:17 japhb He's just been trained that the only way to do an upgrade that doesn't suck is to nuke it from orbit and start on a new planet.
16:17 japhb ;-)
16:17 pmichaud I'm not sure you can safely conclude the latter.
16:18 pmichaud just because I know that nuking something from orbit and starting a new planet works doesn't mean I've been trained that way, or that it's the only way I know how to do it.
16:18 pmichaud it could just mean that it's easiest for my particular requirements.
16:20 pmichaud my point is simply that people want it to be easy to download, install, and upgrade;  setup.pir needs to be at least as easy as what Rakudo currently provides, or if it's not, to have clear reasons why it's not
16:20 japhb nodnod
16:20 japhb I was at least half teasing, FWIW
16:21 * pmichaud looks for smileys, doesn't see them.  :)
16:21 pmichaud oh, wait, there's one!
16:21 japhb Winky no less.  ;-)
16:21 pmichaud anyway, I'm generally not one to let non-sequiters pass unresponded
16:21 japhb heh
16:22 PerlJam http://www.dailyhaha.com/_pics/new_mac.htm
16:22 PerlJam Let's not s/mac/rakudo/ there :)
16:22 moritz lol
16:23 pmichaud the major difference between pc and mac there is that the pc shoots itself first, forcing you to upgrade :)
16:23 theory joined #parrot
16:23 japhb nice
16:24 pmichaud afk, lunch-ish
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16:33 dalek parrot: r43142 | fperrad++ | trunk/runtime/parrot/library/distutils.pir:
16:33 dalek parrot: [distutils] add step sdist_bztar
16:33 dalek parrot: review: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/43142/
16:38 Coke sdist_bztar?
16:41 cotto_work kinda catchy
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16:57 whiteknight git always makes me type "git pull origin master" for my one repo. How do I configure it to do that automatically?
16:57 whiteknight I would like to just type "git pull" like I do for other repos
16:57 moritz [branch "master"]
16:57 moritz remote = origin
16:57 moritz merge = refs/heads/master
16:58 moritz whiteknight: put that into your .git/config
16:58 whiteknight ah, that works. Thanks moritz++
17:00 * whiteknight updates context_unify3 to start debugging
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17:26 brianwisti Is there a preferred method for creating a new Parrot/PIR project, and are there any tools like Module::Starter to automate it?
17:28 moritz yes, we've discussed that yesterday... I'll look it up
17:28 moritz tools/dev/create_language.pl
17:28 brianwisti thanks muchly
17:36 cotto_work There's also mk_langauge_shell.pl, but I'm not entirely clear on the differences.
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17:55 dalek TT #1380 created by ligne++: segfault in Parrot_Coroutine_invoke when running t/pmc/coroutine_9.pir
17:58 dukeleto 'ello
18:02 cotto_work smolder?
18:02 purl smolder is http://sourceforge.net/projects/smolder or web-based smoke test aggregator used by developers and testers to upload (automated or manually) and view smoke/regression tests using the Test Anything Protocol (TAP). or http://smolder.plusthree.com/app​/public_projects/smoke_reports/8
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18:07 cotto_work hi darbelo
18:09 dukeleto brianwisti: yes
18:09 darbelo hi
18:10 dukeleto brianwisti: the difference between mk_language_shell.pl and create_language.pl is that mk_language_shell.pl uses a Parrot-based configure/build
18:10 dukeleto brianwisti: i would use mk_language_shell.pl
18:10 dukeleto brianwisti: but there is no "official", just personal preference.
18:11 brianwisti dukeleto: I'm not sure if either is quite right for what I was thinking of, but I will definitely keep them in mind since Parrot is more for language building than trivial projects.
18:11 brianwisti Seems that way, anyhow.
18:15 dukeleto brianwisti: what did you have in mind?
18:15 dukeleto brianwisti: do you want to start a new language, or a new parrot-based project?
18:24 brianwisti dukeleto: new parrot-based project. This is for the next babysteps.
18:26 dukeleto brianwisti: hmm. i have been meaning to write a starter-script like that. we don't really have one now
18:26 dukeleto brianwisti: the project is PIR-based, NQP-based or both?
18:26 brianwisti This specific project will be PIR, but I'd leave room for both.
18:29 dukeleto brianwisti: yes, they are not exclusive, but usually a project is mostly one or the other
18:30 dukeleto brianwisti: so basically, you want a skeleton foo.pir with a main method, a test harness and a setup.pir (which can be used to build/test/install/etc)
18:30 dukeleto brianwisti: anything else?
18:30 purl anything else is going to be even worse.
18:30 brianwisti dukeleto: Yep, that's what I'm thinking of for the babystep. A real project skeleton would probably include README & whatnot.
18:32 dukeleto brianwisti: do you want to create a TT and assign it to me? "parrot-based project skeleton creation script" or something
18:32 brianwisti dukeleto: will do
18:33 Coke pmichaud: I am still seeing random failures in 'make test' on partcl-nqp; without rebuilding, every so often one of the tests will fail.
18:34 dukeleto Coke: sounds scary
18:35 Coke dukeleto: I am assuming it's a LTM /hash randomization issue.
18:36 dukeleto Coke: interesting
18:38 pmichaud Coke: it's possible, yes.
18:38 pmichaud is it always a different test, though?
18:38 pmichaud if so, that sounds less like a ltm/hash randomization issue
18:45 dalek TT #1380 closed by cotto++: segfault in Parrot_Coroutine_invoke when running t/pmc/coroutine_9.pir
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18:58 Coke pmichaud: no, it's the same test.
18:58 Coke just only fails about 1:3 times.
18:59 Coke t/cmd_incr.t - it's the octal number test.
18:59 Coke #      got : 'expected integer but got "000012345"'
18:59 Coke # expected : '5374'
19:00 Coke This one is less often:
19:00 Coke #      got : 'STRING: 18969 microseconds per iteration'
19:00 Coke # expected : 'REGEXP: [0-9]+ microseconds per iteration'
19:00 cotto_work Coke, would it be feasible to modify Parrot
19:00 cotto_work 's hash seed init code to check if the error became repeatable?
19:00 Coke is there a flag to set? sure.
19:00 cotto_work (my keyboard)--
19:01 cotto_work src/string/api.c line 296
19:01 cotto_work set it to some constant and see what happens
19:01 dalek TT #1381 created by brianwisti++: Parrot-based project skeleton creation script
19:02 Coke yes, if i set that to 1, it becomes repeatable.
19:02 Coke (just the incr test, not the timing test'
19:02 cotto_work now you know
19:02 purl And knowing is half the battle.
19:03 Coke cotto_work: I already "knew". =-)
19:03 cotto_work well, now you know
19:03 purl And knowing is half the battle.
19:04 Coke purl, other half?
19:04 purl other half is thursday.
19:04 Coke ... purl, you're odd.
19:04 cotto_work (and can easily test the fix)
19:09 dukeleto botsmack
19:09 purl please!  another hit!  just one more.... *sigh*
19:11 cotto_work botsmack with a botsnack
19:11 purl thanks cotto_work :)
19:11 pmichaud having it be repeatable is a huge step, though
19:11 pmichaud because now we can narrow it down to a specific case
19:12 cotto_work pmichaud, would it be a bad idea to add a --hash-seed option to parrot that manually sets that value to make these kinds of failures easier to narrow down?
19:12 pmichaud cotto_work: that could be very helpful
19:16 dalek parrot: r43143 | fperrad++ | trunk/runtime/parrot/library/distutils.pir:
19:16 dalek parrot: [distutils] fix spec rpm, and add some rpmbuild commands
19:16 dalek parrot: review: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/43143/
19:16 Coke wtf. search github for partcl-nqp, you find the ref to it in fperrad's repo, but not the /project itself/
19:17 dukeleto hmm
19:17 Coke (searching for "partcl" has better results.)
19:19 dalek tracwiki: v11 | cotto++ | CottoTasklist
19:19 dalek tracwiki: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/wiki/Cot​toTasklist?version=11&amp;action=diff
19:29 whiteknight hmmm, context_unify3 failure with nqp that pmichaud++ pointed out is very strange
19:30 * Coke tries to drum up support with some folks in the NE to go to yapc this year.
19:30 Coke (ROAD TRIP!)
19:31 dukeleto Coke: yapc is where this year?
19:32 cotto_work Ohio
19:32 cotto_work http://yapc2010.com/
19:33 cotto_work Does anyone know if we're doing another Parrot workshop?
19:34 Coke I don't think anyone has gotten that far yet.
19:34 particle the conference planners haven't contacted parrot
19:34 particle and i don't know if we have contacted them
19:34 cotto_work is the date known?
19:35 pmichaud based on some of the discussion in the roadmap planning meeting earlier this week, I've been wondering if we want to do a mini-workshop in early 2010 somewhere
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19:36 dalek winxed: r274 | julian.notfound++ | trunk/ (2 files):
19:36 dalek winxed: member assignment in stage 1
19:36 dalek winxed: review: http://code.google.com/p/w​inxed/source/detail?r=274
19:40 dukeleto pmichaud: sounds good. where?
19:40 purl sounds good. is there a good way for me to find out when branches are merged, other than read every svn commit?
19:40 Coke no, sounds good is <reply>
19:47 whiteknight I would love to go to YAPC again if there was a decent showing of parroteers
19:49 dalek parrot: r43144 | fperrad++ | trunk/runtime/parrot/library/distutils.pir:
19:49 dalek parrot: [distutils] handles dependencies for manifest & sdist
19:49 dalek parrot: review: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/43144/
19:52 Coke once the dates are locked down, we'll see.
19:53 pmichaud dukeleto: "where" was sounding like somewhere on the east coast
19:53 pmichaud e.g., eastern pennsylvania or something like that
19:53 * cotto_work was hoping for the left coast, but I'm selfish like that.
19:55 pmichaud conversation seemed to be http://irclog.perlgeek.de/parr​otsketch/2009-12-13#i_1831621
19:56 pmichaud but I'd be happy to see a west-coast workshop as well :)
19:56 Coke pmichaud: I would definitely schlep to eastern PA.
19:56 dalek winxed: r275 | julian.notfound++ | trunk/winxedst1.winxed:
19:56 dalek winxed: operator string * in stage 1
19:56 dalek winxed: review: http://code.google.com/p/w​inxed/source/detail?r=275
19:56 pmichaud Coke: yeah, I'm guessing we'd just need to pick a venue and date
19:56 pmichaud it looks like there will likely be a rakudo/perl 6 workshop in early march in copenhagen
19:58 pmichaud I'd probably be able to make it
19:58 pmichaud (to eastern PA)
19:58 pmichaud (to anywhere in u.s., actually)
20:00 whiteknight pmichaud: I think I have a fix for the build nqp-rx build problems on context_unify3
20:00 dalek winxed: r276 | julian.notfound++ | trunk/winxedst1.winxed:
20:00 dalek winxed: fix return without values in stage 1
20:01 dalek winxed: review: http://code.google.com/p/w​inxed/source/detail?r=276
20:01 pmichaud whiteknight: is it a change to context_unify3 or to nqp-rx ?
20:01 whiteknight pmichaud: nqp-rx
20:01 pmichaud hmmm
20:01 whiteknight small change, but a change nonetheless
20:01 pmichaud that sounds like context_unify3 would need a deprecation cycle, then
20:01 whiteknight the change is with the Context PMC's API, which I don't believe has been part of a stable release yet
20:01 pmichaud can you nopaste the change?
20:02 pmichaud (the diff is fine)
20:02 whiteknight okay, I have to make a diff then
20:03 whiteknight src/stage0/Regex-s0.pir:1340. "$P0 = context['current_sub']" -> "$P0 = getattribute context, 'current_sub'"
20:03 whiteknight (I can still make a diff, but it was faster to just type it out)
20:03 pmichaud does the latter form work now?
20:03 pmichaud (in parrot trunk?)
20:03 whiteknight ...no
20:04 pmichaud ...I really wish we had some consistency in parrot about when we use the keyed interface versus the attribute interface (sigh)
20:04 whiteknight I definitely agree with you there.
20:05 pmichaud anyway, I agree that change doesn't require a deprecation cycle.
20:05 pmichaud it's a bit of a pain to get into the nqp-rx sources, though.
20:06 whiteknight yeah, did it on the back of a napkin: Context PMC introduced in begining of september, which would have been parrot 1.5
20:06 whiteknight so is that a supported release?
20:06 pmichaud it would be nice if there's a stage where current contexts supported the attribute interface, or new contexts support the keyed interface
20:06 cotto_work 1.4 was the most recent supported release iirc
20:06 whiteknight cotto_work: yeah, that's my recollection too
20:06 pmichaud september was 1.6
20:07 pmichaud july was the last supported release
20:07 cotto_work confirmed
20:07 whiteknight september 3rd was still 1.5. 1.6 was out on the 15th
20:07 whiteknight either way
20:07 pmichaud whiteknight: which means it first appeared in the 1.6 release :)
20:08 pmichaud as soon as a release is made, trunk is on the next version :-)
20:08 whiteknight ah yes. My appologies
20:08 whiteknight I'm getting tags mixed up with eras
20:08 pmichaud so, currently Parrot trunk is roughly the 2.0 release, because anything we do today doesn't appear in the 1.9 release
20:09 whiteknight right, right, right. Don't mind me
20:17 whiteknight It didn't help me that the backtrace showed the error on line 1321, but the error was actually on 1340
20:17 whiteknight IMCC--
20:18 pmichaud yeah, 1.7.0 claimed to improve line number tracking in IMCC, but in my experience line number tracking is now *way* off
20:18 Coke i think it fixed some cases.
20:18 whiteknight s/some cases/cases that nobody uses/
20:18 Coke it's a crap shoot; best we can do is add tests showing bad numbers when we find them.
20:18 pmichaud perhaps so, but I'm finding it made a lot of previously off-by-one errors into off-by-a-lot
20:19 Coke Probably energy better spent switching to pirc.
20:20 Coke pmichaud: any suggestions on parsing quoted words as list elements in partcl-nqp?
20:20 pmichaud I'm not even sure what that means exactly :)
20:21 whiteknight pmichaud: I just noticed, a similar fix needs to be made on line 1346 too. "context = getattribute context, 'caller_ctx'"
20:22 whiteknight but searching shows that these should be the only two instances
20:22 nopaste "coke" at 65.91.151.194 pasted "list parsing a little off:" (6 lines) at http://nopaste.snit.ch/19139
20:24 pmichaud I'd prefer not to maintain two versions of nqp-rx for a while, though
20:24 pmichaud (one for context_unify3, another for trunk)
20:25 pmichaud nor for rakudo-ng, which will have the same issue(s)
20:26 pmichaud Coke: you probably want to add token list_atom:sym<"> { ... }   which describes how to deal with quotations in lists
20:26 pmichaud right now treating a string as a list is handled by :rule<list>
20:26 pmichaud commands/main.pm:269
20:26 pmichaud sorry, :261
20:27 Coke I don't it should probably in list_word, actually.
20:27 Coke s/don't/think/
20:27 Coke since you'd only ever have it wrapping an otherwise legal word. I think.
20:28 pmichaud anyway, that's the general area where parsing is taking place currently
20:28 Coke (I'm not sure why it's not just word:sym<">, actually.)
20:29 pmichaud parsing there was different than normal words, iirc
20:31 pmichaud in particular, I don't think variable or command substitutions apply
20:32 pmichaud (but I could be wrong about that... tcl is weird to me :)
20:34 cotto_work then it's a good think you're not working on a 300,000-line project written in it: http://forums.thedailywtf.com/fo​rums/p/14257/210517.aspx#210517
20:34 Coke ah well. I will clearly have to stare this more later.
20:34 cotto_work s/ink/ing/
20:38 dalek parrot: r43145 | fperrad++ | trunk/runtime/parrot/library/distutils.pir:
20:38 dalek parrot: [distutils] fix directory hierarchy in sdist (tar.gz, tar.bz2, zip)
20:38 dalek parrot: review: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/43145/
20:44 dalek winxed: r277 | julian.notfound++ | trunk/winxedst1.winxed:
20:44 dalek winxed: operator / in stage 1
20:44 dalek winxed: review: http://code.google.com/p/w​inxed/source/detail?r=277
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21:12 * Coke is having a hell of time convincing people to hack on partcl.
21:16 dukeleto Coke: so many things to hack on, so little time
21:18 cotto_work I'm happy to have 3-4 smaller items on my todo list in addition to the larger "make profiling not be so slow" task.
21:18 cotto_work (and then, Lorito)
21:19 bacek joined #parrot
21:24 pmichaud Coke: yes, but now it tends to be more "we don't have time" as opposed to "we can't figure out the code".  At least that's the situation in my case :)
21:27 dalek parrot: r43146 | fperrad++ | trunk/runtime/parrot/library/distutils.pir:
21:27 dalek parrot: [distutils] add option packager (used by plumage & spec_rpm)
21:27 dalek parrot: review: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/43146/
21:28 PerlJam Coke: fwiw, thought I haven't hacked on it much yet, I'm more inclined to hack on partcl in its current form than I was in its previous incarnation.
21:28 PerlJam s/ght/gh/
21:30 Coke pmichaud: just a very big hill to get back to where I was. =-)
21:34 Coke PerlJam: your help so far, btw, greatly appreciated.
21:35 pmichaud Coke: understood.  Sorry for that.
21:35 cotto_work But now when you find a bug and we ask for a minimal pir test case, the answer doesn't have to be "I hate you.". ;)
21:36 Coke pmichaud: obviously, the hope it is it'll all be much easier, but there's still a lot of rewriting to do.
21:38 Coke no worries.
21:38 purl no worries. is my smoke harness code public?
21:38 Coke no, no worries is <reply>Whew.
21:38 dukeleto purl, no worries is also smoke 'em if ya got 'em
21:38 purl okay, dukeleto.
21:38 cotto_work no worries
21:38 purl Whew. or smoke 'em if ya got 'em
21:41 patspam joined #parrot
21:55 bacek Mornig. Good morning.
21:55 Coke bacek: ~
21:55 bacek Coke, ~~
21:56 lucian joined #parrot
21:57 bacek pmichaud, if I'll add attribute Context accessors in trunk now will it help with transition to CallContext?
21:58 pmichaud bacek: yes, immensely.
21:58 bacek pmichaud, ok. Will do.
21:58 Zak joined #parrot
21:58 pmichaud thanks
21:59 pmichaud then I can perhaps see how the ng branch does :)
21:59 pmichaud msg chromatic  see latest message to parrot-dev re: shared exception handler objects
21:59 purl Message for chromatic stored.
21:59 pmichaud (summary: not good)
22:16 dalek parrot: r43147 | bacek++ | branches/context_unify3/MANIFEST.generated:
22:16 dalek parrot: Install pmc_callcontext.h instead of pmc_callsignature.h. Spotted by pmichaud++
22:16 dalek parrot: review: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/43147/
22:19 bacek pmichaud, r43148 with Context attributes
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22:24 pmichaud bacek++  # thanks!
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22:30 bacek pmichaud, rakudo/master will require small adjustments. s/CallSignature/CallContext/g. MultiSub.get_args should just return CURRENT_CONTEXT.
22:31 nopaste "bacek" at 114.73.170.103 pasted "Patch for rakudo/master to build on context_unify3 for pmichaud++" (46 lines) at http://nopaste.snit.ch/19142
22:32 dalek parrot: r43148 | bacek++ | trunk (2 files):
22:32 dalek parrot: Add attributes based introspection interface to Context
22:32 dalek parrot: review: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/43148/
22:32 pmichaud there was also discussion in #perl6 this morning that Rakudo expects to be able to re-use call signatures
22:32 pmichaud (finding the reference)
22:33 pmichaud http://irclog.perlgeek.de/​perl6/2009-12-18#i_1852433
22:34 GeJ Good morning everyone!
22:36 bacek pmichaud, I don't think that merging Context and CallSignature will affect rakudo badly.
22:39 bacek Anyway, @kids time
22:39 bacek See you!
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