Camelia, the Perl 6 bug

IRC log for #parrot, 2010-01-04

Parrot | source cross referenced

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:07 Whiteknight joined #parrot
00:28 Coke tene, lucian: patches to piper's source welcome. (Robrt thought chaning them sg to a notice would be a good first step.)
00:28 Coke purl, piper's source?
00:28 purl piper's source is https://svn.develooper.com/projects/logbot/logbot
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01:11 tadzik hello
01:11 purl privet, tadzik.
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02:20 Tene Coke: I don't have any problems with piper at all.
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03:42 dalek plparrot: a1e9149 | (David Fetter)++ | HOWTO:
03:42 dalek plparrot: More portable HOWTO
03:42 dalek plparrot: review: http://github.com/leto/plparrot/commit/a​1e914922cfd4fa98c6d287d291089fe9054af1b
04:51 Coke Tene: right, but now you can tell the next guy who does. =-)
04:53 Tene Coke: are "stop informing anyone that they are logged" patches accepted?  If not, I expect people who complain are likely to need a bit more guidance than that...
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05:49 dalek parrot: r43379 | plobsing++ | branches/pmc_freeze_cleanup (2 files):
05:49 dalek parrot: Null buffer after making a string out of it in Parrot_str_new_from_buffer.
05:49 dalek parrot: This is needed to not confuse GC during string compaction.
05:49 dalek parrot: review: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/43379/
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11:08 ttbot Parrot trunk/ r43375 i386-linux-thread-multi make error http://tt.ro.vutbr.cz/file/cmdout/179566.txt ( http://tt.ro.vutbr.cz//buil​dstatus/pr-Parrot/rp-trunk/ )
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13:24 Coke ttbot?
13:24 purl somebody said ttbot was TapTinder build bot owned by mj41 and reporting http://tt.ro.vutbr.cz/buil​dstatus/pr-Parrot/rp-trunk build errors.
13:25 Coke msg mj41 for http://tt.ro.vutbr.cz/file/cmdout/179566.txt, can you show the result of the config too?
13:25 purl Message for mj41 stored.
13:25 Coke msg mj41 (And the options passed to config.)
13:25 purl Message for mj41 stored.
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13:53 Coke TonyC?
13:53 purl TonyC is the quietest op/lurker on channel or the Chuck Norris of bug ass-kicking or mailto:tonyc@cpan.org
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14:05 mj41 Coke: http://tt.ro.vutbr.cz/file/cmdout/179565.txt ... there is TapTinder todo item http://dev.taptinder.org/wiki/​ToDo/Build_status_-_one_report if anybody interested in TapTinder hacking
14:13 whiteknight good morning #parrot
14:14 Coke ~~
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14:38 Coke Anyone have any pointers to things in Configure.pl that should just be done in `make` ?
14:51 dalek TT #1344 closed by coke++: documentation spell-checking
14:59 dalek parrot: r43380 | coke++ | trunk (4 files):
14:59 dalek parrot: Fix typos.
14:59 dalek parrot: Apply most of patch in TT #1344, courtesy kurahaupo++
14:59 dalek parrot: review: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/43380/
15:02 ttbot Parrot trunk/ r43380 i386-linux-thread-multi make error http://tt.ro.vutbr.cz/file/cmdout/179755.txt ( http://tt.ro.vutbr.cz//buil​dstatus/pr-Parrot/rp-trunk/ )
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16:25 Coke practice?
16:25 purl practice is more important than simplicity or the antithesis of Theory.
16:27 theory bastards
16:27 * purl kills kenny
16:28 mikehh All tests PASS (pre/post-config, make corevm/make coretest, smoke (#31455), fulltest) at r43380 - Ubuntu 9.10 i386 (g++ with --optimize)
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16:50 mikehh All tests PASS (pre/post-config, make corevm/make coretest, smoke (#31457), fulltest) at r43380 - Ubuntu 9.10 i386 (gcc with --optimize)
17:00 dalek winxed: r345 | julian.notfound++ | trunk/winxedst1.winxed:
17:00 dalek winxed: operator -= in stage 1
17:00 dalek winxed: review: http://code.google.com/p/w​inxed/source/detail?r=345
17:15 dalek winxed: r346 | julian.notfound++ | trunk/winxedst1.winxed:
17:15 dalek winxed: operators % and %% in stage 1
17:15 dalek winxed: review: http://code.google.com/p/w​inxed/source/detail?r=346
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18:00 mikehh All tests PASS (pre/post-config, make corevm/make coretest, smoke (#31458), fulltest) at r43380 - Ubuntu 9.10 i386 (g++)
18:22 mikehh t/compilers/pge/pge_examples.t - Failed test:  2 in smoke and fulltest [library_tests]
18:22 mikehh all other tests PASS ((pre/post-config, make corevm/make coretest, smoke (#31459), fulltest) at r43380 - Ubuntu 9.10 i386 (gcc)
18:24 mikehh Note that this test passes on other variants (above) and ONLY fails with gcc without --optimize. It also passes with all variants on amd64
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19:59 tsuckow I am taking a compilers course and evaluating what I want to compile to.  I am considering C or some VM.  What I would want from a VM to make it worth my time is a debugger that allows stepping through the source code and not the VM's assembly.  Would you consider parrot to be a good candidate? Is parrot too young still? Is there another Vm you would recomend
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20:01 PerlJam young people these days just want stuff *handed* to them on a silver platter ;-)
20:02 tsuckow I could go straight to i686 asm, but it seems overkill
20:02 * PerlJam wonders what "overkill" means in this context.
20:02 tsuckow But yes, hand me the debugger
20:03 tewk_ tsuckow, stick with C then.
20:03 NotFound tsuckow: parrot_debugger has not enough features yet.
20:03 tsuckow PerlJam: just that it would take alot more time with no added benefit
20:04 NotFound tsuckow: but generating parrot code is far easier than generating C or assembly.
20:04 PerlJam tsuckow: oh, I would just say "more work than I wanted to do"   (sorry, "overkill" is one of the words that I think people tend to overuse and often inappropriately, so I have a mild jihad against it :)
20:05 Coke ... PerlJam, typing out all those words is overkill when you could just overkill it.
20:05 Coke . o O (1 ... 2... )
20:05 * tsuckow places overkill on "the list"
20:06 * PerlJam wonders how the term "overkill" even came into existense.
20:06 NotFound I think overkill is the death penalty for overlords.
20:07 Coke http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=overkill
20:07 PerlJam wow. I never would have guessed.
20:07 * darbelo wonders where his overkill cd's ended up after the last move...
20:07 Coke <aliens>nuke the site from orbit it's the only way to be sure</aliens.
20:08 PerlJam I would have thought something like  "we only needed 3 pigs slaughtered, but John killed 5" as a more reasonable birth of the term overkill
20:10 tsuckow I'll probably end up using C.  Unless there is another VM you think might fit the bill.
20:10 PerlJam but the nuclear reference is good for my point about inappropriate or overuse.  Using a nuke when a grenade will do is overkill because of the excess damage caused.  Using perl instead of sed for simple substitution doesn't generate any excess damage, so it can't be overkill.
20:10 PerlJam (for instance)
20:11 PerlJam tsuckow: good luck!  I hope you have fun writing your compiler.
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20:11 PerlJam (no sarcasm there, that's sincerity :)
20:11 NotFound PerlJam: using sh for almost anything longer than 10 lines us usually over creating process.
20:12 NotFound s/us/is
20:13 PerlJam NotFound: if the person doing the deed can think clearer in sh, then that's fine (optimize for the programmer still wins most battles)
20:15 NotFound PerlJam: yes, but I know lot of cases where the programmer ask in irc and forums how to do the damm thing in sh because he thinks will be faster than using perl, python, whatever.
20:16 PerlJam but using sh isn't overkill in that sense.  He just has faulty wiring in his brain (his approach to solving the problem was overkill  :)
20:17 NotFound Just overkidding ;)
20:20 dalek winxed: r347 | julian.notfound++ | trunk/winxedst1.winxed:
20:20 dalek winxed: refactored assign operator in stage 1
20:20 dalek winxed: review: http://code.google.com/p/w​inxed/source/detail?r=347
20:21 NotFound Someone here likes old line-numbered Basic interpreters? I've written one with Winxed: http://winxed.org/misc/wasix.winxed
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20:24 darbelo Writing interpreters in interpreted languages feels odd somehow.
20:25 NotFound darbelo: you can use the .pbc and forget the implementation language
20:25 PerlJam darbelo: Nature does it all the time, just with DNA and RNA :)
20:26 NotFound Anyway, the barrier between compiler and interpreters is so '80...
20:28 NotFound And even in the 80 and old-style Basic there was an MBasic compiler.
20:28 darbelo And still nobody has written a (native code) compiler in an interpreted language ;)
20:29 NotFound darbelo: define 'native'
20:30 NotFound I have in old magazines Basic programs that generates Z80 assembly.
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20:30 NotFound Even assemblers written in Basic.
20:31 darbelo Nice.
20:35 NotFound And maybe someday I'll write a Winxed C++ backend, BTW.
20:35 darbelo circularity++
20:36 NotFound Yeah.
20:45 tsuckow Thanks for your input. TTFN
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20:47 Coke NotFound: (basic) thanks, now I don't feel as guilty for killing languages/BASIC
20:52 NotFound Coke: I don't think it was realistic hoping to write a pure line numbered Basic using a compiler-like approach, anyway.
20:54 Coke I don't think realistic is the right word there, since I'm fairly certain it was functional.
20:55 PerlJam It was.
20:55 NotFound Coke: well, sure you can write one, and it can run programs, but not real old speghetti Basic programs.
20:56 NotFound An that is the kind of programs the target users wants to run.
20:56 PerlJam didn't pdcawley make an appearance here a couple of weeks ago?  Maybe someone can lure him back more often and he can work on it  ;)
20:57 Coke why does Piers make you think of BASIC?
20:57 PerlJam Didn't he write that one you threw away?
20:57 PerlJam I thought he did.
20:57 Coke no, that was Clint.
20:57 Coke ;(I think)
20:57 PerlJam oh!  Yes, you're probably right.
20:58 NotFound BTW there is currently a renewed interest for old style interpreters, because people can't run GWBasic in Windows 7.
20:58 PerlJam (so goes the slow death for my brain)
20:58 Coke perljam is also the mugshot at http://www.theperlreview.com/Sampl​ePages/ThePerlReview-v3i1.p12.pdf
20:58 purl okay, Coke.
20:59 NotFound Certainly, not a lot of people.
21:01 PerlJam I wonder how much the neuron misfirm of mistaking Piers for Clint has to do with the similarity of their names (Piers/Pierce)
21:01 PerlJam s/misfirm/misfire/ even
21:01 ash_ does parrot have an option to compile pir code and leaved a cached version of it around kinda like how python works? like i run parrot somefile.pir and it leaves a somefile.pbc ? or something
21:01 PerlJam (or maybe my brain is just all jumbled because I clearly can't even type)
21:04 * Coke rants about people who expect real time support for free.
21:05 Coke (not anyone here. =-)
21:05 darbelo ash_: -o ?
21:05 purl hmmm... -o is the logging info
21:05 Coke right. parrot -o foo.pbc foo.pir
21:06 darbelo purl: no, -o is <reply>
21:06 purl okay, darbelo.
21:06 ash_ but what if you include multiple pir files? does it do that to all of them? or just the one you specified
21:06 NotFound ash_: including .pir files is evil
21:07 darbelo evil, but works.
21:07 ash_ that makes it hard to make parrot not evil then...
21:07 darbelo the non-evil alternative is to load_bytecode() them.
21:08 NotFound Including is fine for files that just define some const. Using it as an attempt of quick load_bytecode is wrong.
21:10 ash_ okay, i see... i am just thinking about how rakudo's load process works, proto will go through and make .pir versions of all the perl6 code when it adds them to your local library, i was just wondering what it would take to make them pbc instead of pir
21:11 NotFound ash_: .include is just a text editing feature. Any code include'd goes to the .pbc
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21:12 ash_ okay, so its basically something i don't need to worry about then?
21:13 darbelo If it works as .pir and you just parrot -o foo.pbc foo.pir the pbc will work too.
21:13 Coke darbelo: 99% of the time, yes. =-)
21:14 PerlJam Coke: 99.9% even
21:14 Coke no.
21:14 Coke sub :markers are going to confuse the issue.
21:15 Coke I am not sure if :immediate subs will DWYM there.
21:15 PerlJam oh, I guess so.
21:15 Coke ISTR that pmichaud had some issues with that.
21:15 Coke (:load and :init should be OK, I think.)
21:16 darbelo Wasn't the :load :init combo magic or something?
21:17 Coke I stand corrected, :immediate seems to work just fine.
21:17 Coke so, yes, you should be fine. =-)
21:22 dalek winxed: r348 | julian.notfound++ | trunk/winxedst1.winxed:
21:22 dalek winxed: new predefs ord and chr in stage 1
21:22 dalek winxed: review: http://code.google.com/p/w​inxed/source/detail?r=348
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22:15 dalek winxed: r349 | julian.notfound++ | trunk/winxedst1.winxed:
22:15 dalek winxed: some changes in Expr initialization in stage 1
22:15 dalek winxed: review: http://code.google.com/p/w​inxed/source/detail?r=349
22:19 dalek winxed: r350 | julian.notfound++ | trunk/winxedst1.winxed:
22:19 dalek winxed: fix a typo in try modifiers
22:19 dalek winxed: review: http://code.google.com/p/w​inxed/source/detail?r=350
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22:38 dalek winxed: r351 | julian.notfound++ | trunk/winxedst1.winxed:
22:38 dalek winxed: clean const evaluating in stage 1
22:38 dalek winxed: review: http://code.google.com/p/w​inxed/source/detail?r=351
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22:53 dalek winxed: r352 | paco.linux++ | trunk/ (2 files):
22:53 dalek winxed: basic tests for chr and ord.
22:53 dalek winxed: review: http://code.google.com/p/w​inxed/source/detail?r=352
22:57 dalek winxed: r353 | julian.notfound++ | trunk/winxedst1.winxed:
22:57 dalek winxed: some code cleaning
22:57 dalek winxed: review: http://code.google.com/p/w​inxed/source/detail?r=353
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23:40 GeJ Good morning everyone
23:40 darbelo clok?
23:40 darbelo clock?
23:40 purl darbelo: LAX: Mon 3:40pm PST / CHI: Mon 5:40pm CST / NYC: Mon 6:40pm EST / LON: Mon 11:40pm GMT / BER: Tue 12:40am CET / IND: Tue 5:10am IST / TOK: Tue 8:40am JST / SYD: Tue 10:40am EST /
23:41 darbelo I'm clearly in the wrong hemisphere today ;)
23:41 darbelo morning GeJ ;)
23:42 GeJ morning darbelo.
23:43 GeJ I'm quite happy with the hemisphere I'm in right now.
23:43 GeJ 25�C, sunny blue sky, that fits me just fine.
23:45 darbelo Mostly the same here, except it's night and the humidity is off the scale.
23:46 * darbelo likes his climate dry.

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