Camelia, the Perl 6 bug

IRC log for #parrot, 2010-01-05

Parrot | source cross referenced

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:23 Coke wil wheaton?
00:23 purl Hwil Hweaton
00:26 darbelo Isn't it "will"?
00:26 GeJ Die Wesley, die!
00:27 GeJ I believe it's 'Wil'.
00:28 cotto_work It's an optimization.  The extra 'l' is dead code.
00:28 GeJ Granma Google suggests Wil too.
00:29 darbelo As does his wikipedia entry, if we're going to cite authoritative sources ;)
00:30 darbelo I stand corrected.
00:30 cotto_work On a related note, I'm thinking of changing my name to the empty string.
00:31 darbelo Well, at least it can be (not-) rendered in ascii.
00:32 darbelo I'm looking at you, artist formerly known as Prince.
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02:32 dalek TT #546 closed by jkeenan++: Parrot_ex_calc_handler_offset appears to be unused
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03:32 dalek rakudo/master: 3867ffd | (Solomon Foster)++ | src/setting/ (3 files):
03:32 dalek rakudo/master: Add log with $base functions.
03:32 dalek rakudo/master: Kodi++ for providing initial implementation.
03:32 dalek rakudo/master: review: http://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/3​867ffd5b624437a565fa6a30d89f6fc18866797
03:39 dalek winxed: r354 | julian.notfound++ | trunk/winxedst0.cpp:
03:39 dalek winxed: add missing optimize step to switch default branch in stage 0
03:39 dalek winxed: review: http://code.google.com/p/w​inxed/source/detail?r=354
03:44 dalek winxed: r355 | julian.notfound++ | trunk/winxedst1.winxed:
03:44 dalek winxed: refactoring and cleaning in stage 1
03:44 dalek winxed: review: http://code.google.com/p/w​inxed/source/detail?r=355
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04:17 dalek winxed: r356 | julian.notfound++ | trunk/Makefile:
04:17 dalek winxed: fix and improve Makefile
04:17 dalek winxed: review: http://code.google.com/p/w​inxed/source/detail?r=356
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04:41 dalek winxed: r357 | julian.notfound++ | trunk/winxedst1.winxed:
04:41 dalek winxed: predefine several math functions in stage 1
04:41 dalek winxed: review: http://code.google.com/p/w​inxed/source/detail?r=357
05:00 dalek winxed: r358 | julian.notfound++ | trunk/winxedst1.winxed:
05:00 dalek winxed: fix typo in predef chomp in stage 1
05:00 dalek winxed: review: http://code.google.com/p/w​inxed/source/detail?r=358
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06:25 dalek winxed: r359 | julian.notfound++ | trunk/winxedst1.winxed:
06:25 dalek winxed: add missing optimize step to array expression and replace register type letters
06:25 dalek winxed: with symbolic names in stage 1
06:25 dalek winxed: review: http://code.google.com/p/w​inxed/source/detail?r=359
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10:59 dalek parrot: r43381 | fperrad++ | trunk/runtime/parrot/library/distutils.pir:
10:59 dalek parrot: [distutils] now build RPM stuff in the current directory (with --define _topdir)
10:59 dalek parrot: review: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/43381/
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13:23 whiteknight bacek_at_work: didn't like my blog post?
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15:38 dalek parrot: r43382 | fperrad++ | trunk/runtime/parrot/library/distutils.pir:
15:38 dalek parrot: [distutils] add a newline at the end of MANIFEST
15:38 dalek parrot: review: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/43382/
15:38 pmichaud good morning, #parrot
15:41 mikehh hi pmichaud
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16:20 Coke pmichaud: Holy crap, it's pmichaud! =-)
16:20 pmichaud Coke: happy new year :)
16:27 Coke how's the family?
16:30 pmichaud we're doing well
16:31 pmichaud finally getting back to a "normal" routine after the holidays
16:31 pmichaud (which didn't quite go as I had planned)
16:31 davidfetter do they ever?
16:32 pmichaud well, this one definitely took a 90-degree angle.
16:35 PerlJam Then at least it didn't warp into phase space  :)
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16:42 mikehh Coke, pmichaud: we have a scheduled #parrotsketch meeting in about two hours, I hope something happens this week as we are due to release 2.0 in two weeks
16:48 mikehh All tests PASS (pre/post-config, make corevm/make coretest, smoke (#31487), fulltest) at r43382 - Ubuntu 9.10 amd64 (g++ with --optimize)
16:53 pmichaud mikehh: what sort of "something happens" are you looking for?
16:55 Coke pmichaud: last 2 weeks we really didn't have a meeting. =-)
16:55 Coke i suspect that with you and c back this week, we'll be back in the groove.
16:55 * Coke pastes his report in.
16:56 mikehh pmichaud: what Coke said
16:57 mikehh decisions, decisions, decisions :-}
16:57 * Coke hopes that the config/make cleanup will be ready for just after 2.0
16:58 Coke my biggest concern for 2.0 at this point is making sure we document all the deprecations we need.
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16:58 dalek parrot: r43383 | coke++ | branches/one_make/tools/dev/checkdepend.pl:
16:59 dalek parrot: Add --dump option and some docs.
16:59 dalek parrot: review: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/43383/
16:59 dalek parrot: r43384 | coke++ | branches/one_make (16 files):
16:59 dalek parrot: Convert pirc to be include'd instead of recursive.
16:59 dalek parrot: minor cleanup on nqp & imcc cleanup
16:59 dalek parrot: review: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/43384/
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16:59 darbelo We're missing a deprecation notice for the Getopt::Obj changes.
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17:46 * whiteknight still says to deprecate everything
17:53 szbalint Everything? Eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeveeeeerryyything! # ETOOMUCHLEON
17:53 * plobsing wonders if that statement includes itself
17:54 whiteknight I hope so, what if we need to modify that statemnt before 2.4?
17:54 * darbelo adds "The deprecation policy" to DEPRECATED.pod
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18:15 Coke ps in 15?
18:15 * whiteknight won't be at the meeting...again
18:15 whiteknight scheduling is such a pain in the ass
18:17 NotFound I must go in a few minutes and be absent for some days.
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18:20 * Coke finds copy_if_diff in the config tools, and thinks that sounds like something that belongs in a makefile rule.
18:23 Coke msg kid51 - looks like "copy_is_diff" import can be removed from config/auto/cpu.pm
18:23 purl Message for kid51 stored.
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18:31 * Coke wanders off to get a coffee.
18:31 darbelo clock?
18:31 purl darbelo: LAX: Tue 10:31am PST / CHI: Tue 12:31pm CST / NYC: Tue 1:31pm EST / LON: Tue 6:31pm GMT / BER: Tue 7:31pm CET / IND: Wed 12:01am IST / TOK: Wed 3:31am JST / SYD: Wed 5:31am EST /
18:31 darbelo ps in -1?
18:32 payload joined #parrot
18:39 Topic for #parrotis now Parrot 1.9.0 "Blue-fronted Amazon" released! | http://parrot.org | Priorities: Add deprecations for 2.0; test platforms; check with HLL implementors | Roadmap: http://icanhaz.com/parrotroadmap | Latest modified TT's: http://icanhaz.com/parrotbugs
18:40 Andy joined #parrot
18:56 Coke I cannot update http://trac.parrot.org/parr​ot/wiki/BranchDescriptions
18:56 Coke if i edit it, hit submit, I get the old version.
18:56 Coke the new guts are available at http://feather.perl6.nl/~coke/output if someone else wants to try.
18:56 Coke (raise your hand so we don't get clobbered.)
19:03 Coke tip?
19:03 purl hmmm... tip is cu for bsd or Tripoli or Testing In Production (see DIP)
19:03 Coke lts?
19:03 purl i heard lts was LTS is Leaning Toothpick Syndrome or Letter-To-Sound, a common acronym in TTS (Text-To-Speech) or Long Term Support or laser tracking system or ladle treatment station
19:21 * Util raises hand to try wiki update
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19:23 Util Update to BranchDescriptions successful
19:23 Coke wtf. danke.
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19:38 dalek tracwiki: v24 | Util++ | BranchDescriptions
19:38 dalek tracwiki: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/wiki/Branc​hDescriptions?version=24&action=diff
19:42 darbelo Coke: one_make WFM with BSD make doing a make -j5
19:42 Coke sweet.
19:43 darbelo Haven't ran make test yet, but I'm guessing that shouldn't hold any surprises.
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19:44 Coke might.
19:45 Coke tests for PCT, e.g. might depend on a compiler lib I missed.
19:45 Coke (also make sure that 'make realclean' doesn't leave anything behind.
19:45 Coke (svn st --no-ignore)
19:45 darbelo Running make test now. But I wanted to test a make -dp first, which worked.
19:46 Coke -dp?
19:46 purl -dp are Dan's standard, but I wasn't sure if there was something else
19:46 darbelo With -dp OpenBSD make randomizes the order in which targets get built.
19:46 Coke ah, awesome.
19:47 * Coke wonders if gnu has that.
19:47 darbelo AFAIK it's OpenBSD specific.
19:48 Coke please keep using that. =-)
19:51 nopaste "darbelo" at 190.192.220.13 pasted "Test failure for one_make on OpenBSD" (11 lines) at http://nopaste.snit.ch/19215
19:53 nopaste "darbelo" at 190.192.220.13 pasted "Leftover file afte make realclean on one_make in OpenBSD" (1 line) at http://nopaste.snit.ch/19216
19:53 darbelo joined #parrot
19:55 Coke darbelo: that one has failed since I forked, before I edited anything. =-)
19:55 Coke (but only sporadically). I haven't been able to track it down yet.
19:55 Coke ah, that flag file. hurm.
19:57 darbelo You could just delete it explicitly.
20:01 Coke I am going to see if there's a way around the .flag file. (though I think it's necessary)
20:05 chromatic japhb, dukeleto ping
20:06 darbelo Coke: You don't need it after clean. Just rm it there.
20:13 Coke darbelo: if I remove it immediately, then I'll end up re-doing work on the next make.
20:14 darbelo Coke: Not inmediatelly, just on explicit clean/realclean.
20:14 Coke ... or not, if the ... right.
20:14 Coke darbelo: feel free to fix the branch. ^_^
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20:31 darbelo bacek: ping
20:45 japhb chromatic, pong
20:46 chromatic ericwilhelm is working on Perl 6 and the CPAN; he could use your input.
20:46 chromatic See   http://www.nntp.perl.org/group/per​l.cpan.workers/2010/01/msg639.html
20:47 japhb I sent an email to that thread.  It was ignored.
20:48 japhb Which is OK; I mostly just said "Work it out amongst yourselves ... all I care is that I have an API and some metadata standards I can work with."
20:48 chromatic Hm.  Glad you're aware of it anyhow.
20:48 japhb nodnod
20:49 japhb It feels like a fair amount of heat without a whole lot of light.
20:50 chromatic As usual.
20:51 japhb Any Perl 5 lurkers, please correct me if you think my assessment here is incorrect ... but I saw a fair amount of Perl 5'ers wondering how to be inclusive of Perl 6 without actually wanting to *use* or *learn* it.  It seemed well-intentioned but lacking in voices from the core Perl 6 camp.
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20:55 chromatic The core Perl 5 camp, you mean?
20:56 japhb chromatic, well come to think of it, some of both.
20:57 japhb "We all want something done, we think it's important, but we don't have the key personnel here."
20:58 japhb Which led to at one point someone asking who those key personnel would actually *be*.
20:58 chromatic I'm not sure what you mean.
20:59 chromatic When I read "a fair amount of Perl 5'ers wondering how to be inclusive of Perl 6 without actually wanting to *use* or *learn* it." I care a little less.
20:59 japhb nod
21:00 chromatic Dooming with faint relevance, as it were.
21:00 japhb I really think they do want to be able to host Perl 6 code on CPAN, but because only one or two people had read the relevant synopses, they were guessing about how to bend CPAN to Perl 6's semantics.
21:02 japhb And there was also a fair amount of "Hey, let's just turn 02packages into a giant JSON file!"  "No, how about a compressed SQLite database!"  "We'll never get that into Perl 5 core"  "How about we bootstrap via ..." sort of tangents
21:02 dalek parrot: r43385 | darbelo++ | branches/one_make/config/gen/makefiles/root.in:
21:02 dalek parrot: Cleanup leftover file on make realclean.
21:02 dalek parrot: review: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/43385/
21:02 chromatic Now I understand your response there.
21:04 darbelo japhb: So, they care about hosting modules for a language they don't care about?
21:04 darbelo That can't be right...
21:04 japhb darbelo, there seems to be a great fear of fracturing the CPAN.
21:05 japhb Stronger than direct interest in the sister language.
21:05 darbelo That can't be right...
21:06 japhb darbelo, um ... why not?
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21:08 japhb Essentially CPAN is a topic-specific CDN with an indexer and some nifty tools bolted on.  As it until now has been the *only* CDN for Perl modules, they don't want to see the service equivalent of a code fork -- one CDN for Perl 5 modules and another for Perl 6.
21:09 japhb FWIW, I can understand that emotion ... but I think it misses the broader movement in which tarballs are no longer the standard distribution method for open source code.
21:09 darbelo Different language, different CDN. I see no problem there.
21:10 darbelo Or does CPAN have perl 4 code in there?
21:10 japhb Sure, but we (as a larger community) are still working through the emotional issues of changing from seeing Perl as one language with two versions to two different languages in the same family.  Not all of the effects of that change in viewpoint have trickled down.
21:10 chromatic It hosts the Perl 5 standard library, so that's a big YES on Perl 4 code.
21:12 japhb BTW, for an indication of what I mean about missing that tarballs are no longer state of the art ... there was a short subthread about renaming the file extension on the Perl 6 tarballs so that Windows could do something special when you clicked on a Perl 6 tarball.
21:13 GeJ Good morning everyone!
21:14 darbelo "Perl 6 tarball"?
21:14 dngor Code's not distributed in tarballs anymore?
21:14 japhb darbelo, sorry "tarball of a Perl 6 module"
21:14 dngor Oh, no longer the standard.
21:14 japhb dngor, right
21:15 dngor What's the standard these days?  I missed a memo.
21:15 japhb proto and Plumage both treat "pull from VCS repo" as standard, and tarball as a fallback if said repo is not available.
21:16 japhb I believe that to be the direction the larger FOSS world is moving, in a hurry.
21:16 darbelo dngor: Varies with the platform. rpm/deb/distro-x's-cool-package-manager/etc are more poular than tarball this days
21:17 japhb darbelo, I agree with that ... but for example Parrot distutils generates rpm's and such by pulling from the VCS and then running the necessary scripts,
21:17 japhb rather than operating on a tarball snapshot.
21:18 darbelo Also true.
21:19 dngor I like the idea of pulling the latest release tag from a VCS.  As a module publisher, it makes things easy for me.  Tag it and bag it.
21:19 japhb exactly
21:19 dngor Everything rolls downhill.
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21:36 dngor Source packages become obsolete when makefiles can detect and fetch changed dependencies on the fly.
21:37 dngor Binary packages are just memoized builds.
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22:03 bacek_at_work darbelo, pong
22:03 bacek_at_work Good morning, btw
22:04 darbelo evening bacek_at_work ;)
22:04 bacek_at_work darbelo, welcome to the future! :)
22:04 darbelo Are any of the context_unify* branches still needed or have they merged?
22:05 chromatic The simple one merged.
22:05 bacek_at_work darbelo, what chromatic said.
22:05 bacek_at_work I personally don't think that something is salvageable from other branches.
22:09 darbelo bacek_at_work: Ok, thanks. I'll kill'em all in a bit.
22:09 bacek_at_work clean them with fire!
22:12 darbelo Any other old branches you no longer need?
22:12 darbelo I'm in a killing mood ;)
22:16 bacek_at_work nsentry2
22:16 darbelo did it merge or just got too old?
22:23 dalek parrot: r43386 | darbelo++ | branches/context_unify3_simple:
22:24 dalek parrot: Branch has been merged into trunk and is no longer needed at HEAD.
22:24 purl i already had it that way, dalek.
22:24 dalek parrot: review: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/43386/
22:24 dalek parrot: r43387 | darbelo++ | branches/context_unify3:
22:24 dalek parrot: This branch was obsoleted by contex_unify3_simple is no longer needed at HEAD.
22:24 dalek parrot: review: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/43387/
22:24 dalek parrot: r43388 | darbelo++ | branches/context_unify:
22:24 dalek parrot: This branch was obsoleted by contex_unify2 is no longer needed at HEAD.
22:24 dalek parrot: review: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/43388/
22:24 dalek parrot: r43389 | darbelo++ | branches/context_unify2:
22:24 dalek parrot: This branch was obsoleted by contex_unify3 is no longer needed at HEAD.
22:24 dalek parrot: review: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/43389/
22:24 dalek parrot: r43390 | darbelo++ | branches/nsentry2:
22:24 dalek parrot: Branch is no longer needed at HEAD.
22:24 dalek parrot: review: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/43390/
22:30 bacek_at_work darbelo, it used wrong approach
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23:36 darbelo plobsing: I've tested the pmc_freeze_cleanups branch on OpenBSD with no failures on make test, decnum-dynpmc's tests or in rakudo's make test.
23:37 plobsing sweet!
23:38 plobsing anybody have access to osx or windows for testing pmc_freeze_cleanup?
23:41 darbelo We should probably test some other languages too, but I'm haven't ran any of the other languages in a while, so I have no 'before' to compare to.
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23:43 darbelo Still, if 'make testr' passes on windows, we're good to merge.
23:48 chromatic The Perl 6 Doppler Effect: whining increases in frequency as Rakudo Star approaches.
23:52 ash_ i am on OS X, just make test?
23:54 darbelo ash_: make testr too, if you can.
23:54 ash_ kk, i am checking it out right now
23:56 plobsing './parrot examples/benchmarks/freeze.pasm' is also a good one
23:57 darbelo Oh yeah, I missed that one.
23:57 ash_ kk, its building, i'll let you know when i finish with normal test and testr
23:57 ash_ i am on 10.6.2 btw
23:58 darbelo intel mac?
23:58 purl intel mac is fast but very unstable, imo
23:58 ash_ yeah, intel (Core 2, 64 bit)
23:58 Khisanth joined #parrot
23:59 ash_ it dies on making during building glut callbacks
23:59 ash_ can i just not add opengl support?
23:59 tetragon joined #parrot
23:59 darbelo sure, we're testing a totally unrelated change.

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