Camelia, the Perl 6 bug

IRC log for #parrot, 2010-01-06

Parrot | source cross referenced

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:00 plobsing rakudo doesn't like my non-standard --prefix
00:01 ash_ oh, i see why mines doing that, i was trying to track down why opengl doesn't work right in os x, so those are my fault, let me revert those changes
00:01 darbelo plobsing: really? I install parrot to ~/parrot/instdir/ and have no issues there.
00:02 plobsing I put it in /usr/local/parrot-$branchname
00:02 plobsing will try with ~/parrot-$branchname
00:03 darbelo plobsing: is that dir on your path or did you use --parrot-config ?
00:04 plobsing added to path.
00:04 plobsing as needed
00:04 darbelo Then I have no ide why it fails.
00:05 plobsing "Can't read '/usr/local/lib/parrot/1.8.0​-devel/include/config.fpmc' : No such file or directory"
00:10 ash_ all tests passed successfully, doing make testr
00:12 ash_ testr passed too
00:12 ash_ do you want the print out from ./parrot examples/benchmarks/freeze.pasm
00:13 darbelo sure
00:14 darbelo But just knowing that it didn't segfault is cool.
00:14 ash_ i only ran it once, was it randomly segfaulting?
00:14 plobsing nope, it was pretty consistent when it didn't like something
00:14 darbelo it was pretty consistent on my box.
00:15 ash_ http://gist.github.com/269884
00:15 chromatic alias freezemem='sudo echo 0 > /proc/sys/kernel/randomize_va_space'
00:15 chromatic usually helps
00:15 ash_ there are a few runs on my computer
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00:17 ash_ need anything else on os x?
00:18 * Coke gets an OSX box back.
00:18 Coke now with shiny 10.6
00:18 Coke (sadly without several years worth of photos. :(
00:19 ash_ timemachine?!
00:19 purl i think timemachine is http://www.apple.com/macosx​/features/timemachine.html
00:19 ash_ o.0
00:20 Coke timemachine didn't exist in 10.4
00:20 ash_ hey, since your on 10.6 now
00:21 ash_ try running examples/opengl/shapes.pir
00:24 ash_ hmm i have to go, but Coke, if your on 10.6 i think you should be experiencing the opengl bug that parrot has, I haven't found the problem completely yet, i'll let you konw if i find anything important
00:26 Whiteknight Are we going to support Ubuntu 8.04? I can champion Ubuntu8.04-x86 if there is value in doing it
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01:10 plobsing cardinal passes w/ pmc_freeze_cleanup on linux x86_64
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01:11 ewilhelm anybody know if there's work underway on a perl6 cpan client?
01:12 Coke ewilhelm: japhb is the guy to talk to from the parrot side of that.
01:12 Coke also, see #perl6 on freenode
01:13 ewilhelm how about pir and etc packages?
01:14 japhb ewilhelm, so far installers for Perl 6 (proto and Plumage) have been mostly about pulling from VCS and building, or (using Parrot distutils) making RPMs, DEBs, etc. from the above.
01:14 japhb Plumage installs anything that will install on Parrot.
01:14 japhb proto is Rakudo-specific.
01:18 plobsing pynie passes w/ pmc_freeze_cleanup on linux x86_64
01:18 Coke plobsing: if you're bored, you could check partcl-nqp. =-)
01:18 ewilhelm japhb, what does proto do that plumage doesn't?
01:19 plobsing Coke: I'll add it to the list
01:20 japhb ewilhelm, a few UI things, some help with creating new projects (Parrot has a different tool for that), ability to download parrot and rakudo source using a Perl 5 script, build them, and bootstrap itself.  A few other bits.  Plumage will likely learn to do many of those things.
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01:36 plobsing rakudo passes w/ pmc_freeze_cleanup on linux x86_64
01:43 plobsing rakudo-ng passes w/ pmc_freeze_cleanup on linux x86_64
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01:54 dalek parrot: r43391 | coke++ | branches/one_make/config/auto/cpu.pm:
01:54 dalek parrot: remove unused import
01:54 dalek parrot: review: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/43391/
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02:10 dalek parrot: r43392 | coke++ | branches/one_make (7 files):
02:10 dalek parrot: Don't use := in makefiles, remove := > = translation.
02:10 dalek parrot: review: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/43392/
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02:17 plobsing partcl-nqp fails t/cmd_lindex.t 11-12 w/ pmc_freeze_cleanup on linux x86_64
02:18 plobsing partcl-nqp passes w/ (pmc_freeze_cleanup merged with latest trunk) on linux x86_64
02:19 cotto_work something added to trunk since the last branch point?
02:19 plobsing that's my guess
02:20 plobsing pmc_freeze_cleanup branched at r43030
02:21 plobsing I tried testing partcl-nqp against r43029 but it didn't like that
02:21 plobsing (too old)
02:22 Coke msg chromatic - are you the guy for ext/Parrot-Embed ?
02:22 purl Message for chromatic stored.
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03:15 dalek parrot: r43393 | jkeenan++ | trunk/config/auto/cpu.pm:
03:15 dalek parrot: Remove unneeded import per suggestion from Coke++.
03:15 dalek parrot: review: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/43393/
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03:41 plobsing anyone have windows for testing pmc_freeze_cleanup?
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06:39 JimmyZ msg plobsing Windows XP `make smoke` passed with strawberry perl for testing pmc_freeze_cleanup.
06:39 purl Message for plobsing stored.
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08:13 chromatic Coke, yes.
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12:25 Coke hey, is ext/ considered experimental?
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13:00 Util Coke: nqp-rx is in ext/, and ISTR that it is not experimental; it is the next-gen|successor|not-read​y-for-primetime-replacement of nqp, but being develeoped in Git (*ext*ternal to our SVN) and synced. Looking also at Parrot::Embed and SQLite, I would think that ext/ just means "external", but if so, I would expect OpenGL to live there too.
13:00 Util Scanning the source for /experimental/i, especially DEPRECATED.pod, does not show much overlap between experimental status|intent and ext/ residence.
13:00 Util IOW, "I don't know, but no one else answered, so here is my brain dump" :)
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13:35 Coke Util: not-ready-for-primetime-replacement === "experimental replacement"
13:39 Coke but, point taken that the answer is, in general, no.
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14:25 Coke http://autocompleteme.com/20​10/01/06/and-it-feels-great/ which I would normally not post here, but this particular auto-complete might be amusing to parrot hackers.
14:27 szbalint it refers to the comment made by Stephen Fry :)
14:28 szbalint http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9T1vfsHYiKY
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14:41 Util ++Coke, ++szbalint. Funniest thing I have seen all year.
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15:03 renormalist Hi! Someone is asking me whether there are *scientific* (academic style) papers about parrot. Are there?
15:06 renormalist I remember that in the beginning when it was about register vs. stack based that academic papers were consumed, but not sure whether some were written.
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16:01 japhb Coke, Util: nqp-rx is quite definitely "ready for prime time" -- it's in ext/, because as Util surmised, its official VCS repo is *ext*ernal to Parrot's repo.  OpenGL is not external yet (it will be eventually), because the Parrot NCI system is not yet capable of building thunks on the fly, so OpenGL has to be part of the config process in order to make a list of needed thunks, which are then built as part of the build process.  I can't wa
16:01 japhb it until this goes away, but I'm entirely blocked on NCI improvements.
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16:31 Coke I think I will leave ext/nqp-rx as a combined makefile (since we are shipping it by default), but may leave everything else in ext alone.
16:32 Coke (and remove the ability to invoke them from the top level make.)
16:32 Coke msg chromatic - it looks like we can avoid generating P::E's .pl file at config time if we just use Parrot::Config. that seem reasonable to you?
16:32 purl Message for chromatic stored.
16:36 Coke looks like the only usage of dynpmc.pl in the repo now is ncigen
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16:48 dalek parrot: r43394 | coke++ | branches/one_make/tools/build (2 files):
16:48 dalek parrot: Add deprecation note (from TT #338)
16:48 dalek parrot: review: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/43394/
16:48 dalek parrot: r43395 | coke++ | branches/one_make (4 files):
16:48 dalek parrot: Remove dynoplibs.pl (TT #338)
16:48 dalek parrot: It's unused in core parrot at this point.
16:48 dalek parrot: review: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/43395/
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17:36 dukeleto 'ello
17:36 cotto_work hi
17:37 Coke go to google. type in 'what is' . the first entry is "what is nqp?"
17:37 Coke dukeleto: hi
17:37 purl hola, Coke.
17:38 Coke purl, difa
17:38 purl Coke: excuse me?
17:38 Coke purl, diaf
17:38 purl it has been said that diaf is Die in a Fire
17:39 cotto_work Coke, that must be customized.  I don't get that even with "what is nq".
17:40 darbelo same here.
17:41 * Coke checks.
17:42 Coke whoops, you're absolutely right.
17:42 ash_ Coke: are you logged into a gmail account?
17:42 ash_ it tailors results based off your search history
17:42 Coke yup, and obviously marks them as such. was just having fun playing with autocomplete.
17:43 ash_ searching parrot for me doesn't give me a real parrot until like halfway down the first page of search results
17:43 Coke 9and missed it.)
17:43 cotto_work There's much fun to be had.
17:43 Tene Coke: you've seen the "WTF CENSORSHIP" about google autocomplete, yes?
17:43 Tene It doesn't offer results for "Islam is"
17:44 Coke nope, missed that.
17:44 dukeleto Tene: interesting
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18:01 bubaflub dukeleto, Coke: http://i.imgur.com/BL3Lo.gif is what Tene was referring to
18:02 Tene http://www.blaghag.com/2009/12/updat​e-googles-religious-censorship.html and the earlier post it links to were my source.
18:03 dukeleto bubaflub: thanks.
18:03 dukeleto bubaflub: howdy!
18:04 bubaflub dukeleto: howdy.  long time, no chat.  how'd the holidays treat ya?
18:06 dukeleto bubaflub: good. just got back to town
18:07 bubaflub dukeleto: nice.  how's pdx?  we're suppose to get the worst blizzard in 5 years here in IL tonight.
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18:22 cotto_work clock?
18:22 purl cotto_work: LAX: Wed 10:22am PST / CHI: Wed 12:22pm CST / NYC: Wed 1:22pm EST / LON: Wed 6:22pm GMT / BER: Wed 7:22pm CET / IND: Wed 11:52pm IST / TOK: Thu 3:22am JST / SYD: Thu 5:22am EST /
18:26 dukeleto bubaflub: pdx is dry and in the 40's today
18:27 bubaflub dukeleto: that sounds nice.  it was about -2 when i woke up today.
18:27 dukeleto bubaflub: whoa!
18:28 bubaflub dukeleto: yeah, i'm feeling it since a few days ago i was in San Diego and Mexico for a bit.
18:28 dukeleto bubaflub: are you going to get snowed in?
18:29 bubaflub dukeleto: that's what "they" say
18:29 bubaflub i heard 7 - 10 inches of snow tonight.
18:32 cotto_work good time to build up your snowball arsenal
18:32 cotto_work bad time for skinny dipping
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18:34 dukeleto bubaflub: make sure your local git mirror is up to date. you might lose internet, but you can still hack on stuff!
18:34 bubaflub haha.  if only my iphone tethered then i would have a little more robust internet.
18:34 bubaflub didn't they promise tethering by end of year 2009?
18:34 bubaflub oh well.
18:42 dukeleto bubaflub: i had iphone tethering for a year
18:42 bubaflub jailbreak?
18:42 dukeleto bubaflub: then my carrier profile expired. got to fix that.
18:42 dukeleto bubaflub: nope, no need to jailbreak
18:42 dukeleto bubaflub: you just download a new carrier profile
18:43 bubaflub oh, that's cool.
18:43 bubaflub does it work with an unlimited data plan?
18:43 dukeleto bubaflub: yes
18:44 dukeleto bubaflub: but there are limitations. it only works on older iphone OS's
18:44 bubaflub oh.  i think i have the latest
18:51 dukeleto bubaflub: you can do it with the latest, but that requires jailbraking
18:51 bubaflub ugh.  can't AT&T just come through on its promises?
18:59 bubaflub </whining>
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19:13 chromatic Coke, I like the idea.
19:17 dukeleto so what needs doing before 2.0?
19:19 chromatic Fix bugs!
19:19 chromatic List deprecations!
19:19 chromatic Write documentation!
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19:37 ash_ i have my iphone hacked for tethering, it wasn't that hard
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19:58 TimToady phone in 1 minute?
19:59 chromatic yes
20:06 Coke chromatic: eek!
20:13 dalek TT #1403 created by bacek++: [DEPRECATED] OrderedHash PMC
20:19 dalek parrot: r43396 | bacek++ | trunk/DEPRECATED.pod:
20:19 dalek parrot: Add OrderedHash PMC into DEPRECATED.pod
20:19 dalek parrot: review: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/43396/
20:22 PerlJam bacek: when is this supposed reimplementation taking place?
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21:00 bacek o hai
21:01 bacek PerlJam, it almost done in orderedhash_revamp branch. I just forgot to add deprecation note in previous deprecation cycle.
21:02 PerlJam bacek: oh. cool.
21:18 dukeleto bacek: o hai
21:24 bacek dukeleto, aloha
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21:25 ash_ can parrot be built with a cross-compiler?
21:26 darbelo not easily.
21:27 darbelo The only cross-compiling case I kinow of is the RTEMS port and that pretty much sidesteps most of parrot's own build infrastructure.
21:27 ash_ as in yes possible but you have to re-write the make files or ... ?
21:28 ash_ hmm
21:28 dukeleto ash_: what do you want to do?
21:28 ash_ i have a programming class coming up this spring where we have to make an andriod app and i was thinking of trying to build parrot for it and make an app to teach rakudo
21:29 ash_ i know thats probably out of my league but i was just wondering if its even in the realm of possible
21:29 dukeleto ash_: it is possible, but you would have to hand-write some Makefiles
21:29 ash_ 2 issues i see is when you run the simulator its actually building your code for x86, when you build it for the actual phone it targets arm
21:30 dukeleto ash_: you can never trust a simulator
21:31 ash_ yup, i know, but that does raise issues, since you'd only really need to target arm for the live app and not for local simulations
21:31 dukeleto ash_: yes, that is an interesting situation
21:31 darbelo Hm. Have we ever built a parrot for arm before?
21:32 ash_ yeah, i saw a report that someone has at one point
21:32 cotto_work There seems to have been a successful ARM build on NetBSD
21:34 dukeleto cotto_work: cool
21:34 ash_ maybe i'll try the iphone first, its also an arm processor, but it uses the gcc out of the box, technically andriod stuff is written in java but there are ways around that to write C if you want, plus i have an iphone so i can actually test it on the hardware
21:35 dukeleto ash_: go for it! we will help you as much as we can
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21:41 dalek parrot: r43397 | chromatic++ | branches/tt389_fix:
21:41 dalek parrot: Don't store :method subs in namespace
21:41 dalek parrot: review: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/43397/
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21:44 chromatic PGE doesn't build, but I think that's a simple fix.
21:44 chromatic All of the test failures are the same thing: no more get_global on :methods.
21:48 bacek chromatic, http://trac.parrot.org/par​rot/ticket/1393#comment:18
21:48 bacek I would like to kill RetContinuation. It's way too dangerous.
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21:52 bacek $dayjob time
21:52 bacek c u
21:57 dalek parrot: r43398 | chromatic++ | branches/tt389_fix/src/pmc/namespace.pmc:
21:57 dalek parrot: [PMC] Made NameSpace PMC skip adding subs marked with :method to the namespace
21:57 dalek parrot: in two cases:
21:57 dalek parrot:     * where there's an existing class into which the methods go, or
21:57 dalek parrot:     * where the NameSpace's name does not match a built-in PMC type
21:57 dalek parrot: This resolves TT #389.  Some tests fail.  They need fixing; they're wrong.
21:57 dalek parrot: review: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/43398/
21:58 dalek parrot: r43399 | chromatic++ | branches/tt389_fix/t/oo/mro-c3.t:
21:58 dalek parrot: [t] Fixed test not to grab methods from the namespace directly, as they aren't
21:58 dalek parrot: there anymore (TT #389).
21:58 dalek parrot: review: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/43399/
21:58 dalek parrot: r43400 | mikehh++ | trunk/lib/Parrot/Harness/Smoke.pm:
21:58 dalek parrot: apply patch from Michael Peters to fix smolder uploads response from server - works for me
21:58 dalek parrot: review: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/43400/
22:14 dalek parrot: r43401 | mikehh++ | trunk/DEPRECATED.pod:
22:14 dalek parrot: fix codetest failure - pod syntax (=back seems to need a blank line before it)
22:14 dalek parrot: review: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/43401/
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22:20 mikehh mpeters++ for patch applied in r43400
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22:54 mikehh All tests PASS (pre/post-config, make corevm/make coretest, smoke (#31506), fulltest) at r43401 - Ubuntu 9.10 i386 (g++ with --optimize)
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23:29 mikehh pmc_freeze_cleanup branch - All tests PASS (pre/post-config, make corevm/make coretest, test, fulltest) at r43401 - Ubuntu 9.10 i386 (g++ with --optimize)
23:32 mikehh however - t/pmc/eval.t - TODO passed: 12, in coretest, test and all cores in fulltest
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