Camelia, the Perl 6 bug

IRC log for #parrot, 2010-01-12

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
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00:39 kid51 bacek_at_work: pong
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00:50 cotto_work This looks like a valuable data point when considering how we want to use LLVM: http://renesd.blogspot.com/2010/01/unlad​en-swallow-review-still-needs-work.html
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00:57 * kid51 biaf
01:02 Whiteknight cotto_work: excellent link
01:02 Whiteknight those are the kinds of results I would expect, some work loads will work with JIT and some wont
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01:13 cottoo yeah, good find cotto_work
01:13 cottoo ;)
01:18 davidfetter nom nom nom
01:18 purl I eat your head!
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01:28 dalek parrot: r43421 | chromatic++ | branches/tt389_fix/t (6 files):
01:28 dalek parrot: [t] Fixed tests which relied on the deprecated behavior of :methods accessible
01:28 dalek parrot: through NameSpaces.  See TT #389.
01:28 dalek parrot: review: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/43421/
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01:57 GeJ chromatic: is tt389_fix a WIP that should be left alone for now or do you accept build failure reports?
01:58 chromatic It's a WIP.  I'm trying to fix PGE right now.
01:59 GeJ Okay then.
02:01 GeJ While I'm on lunch break, any branch that would like to get a freebsd smoke report?
02:02 chromatic pmc_freeze_cleanup is close to merging.
02:04 GeJ checkout in progress. Thanks.
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02:19 chromatic seen pmichaud
02:19 purl pmichaud was last seen on #parrot 6 days, 9 hours, 25 minutes and 46 seconds ago, saying: mikehh: what sort of "something happens" are you looking for?  [Jan  5 16:51:26 2010]
02:21 chromatic I suppose I could also:
02:21 chromatic pmichaud, ping
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03:52 chromatic Hm.  NameSpace#export_to()
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04:52 chromatic msg pmichaud I've almost fixed TT #389 (no :method in namespace), but I have PGE/TGE problems; I could use some help.
04:52 purl Message for pmichaud stored.
04:58 * JimmyZ is waiting someone who could take a look at his ticket.
05:01 dalek parrot: r43422 | chromatic++ | branches/tt389_fix/runtime/parro​t/library/PGE/Perl6Grammar.pir:
05:01 dalek parrot: [PGE] Made PGE build after fixing TT #389.  Instead of looking up a method by
05:01 dalek parrot: name in the appropriate namespace, then invoking the Sub PMC and passing the
05:02 dalek parrot: object as its first argument, use normal method dispatch and avoid the manual
05:02 dalek parrot: lookup.
05:02 dalek parrot: review: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/43422/
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07:31 dalek cardinal: 9c99a89 | fperrad++ | setup.pir:
07:31 dalek cardinal: - update the URL of Smolder
07:31 dalek cardinal: - follow the latest distutils library
07:31 dalek cardinal: review: http://github.com/cardinal/cardinal/commit​/9c99a8942382135b974c8ede8526675bc3247b31
07:31 dalek cardinal: dab2076 | fperrad++ | plumage/cardinal.json:
07:31 dalek cardinal: Plumage description
07:31 dalek cardinal: - regenerate with more instructions
07:31 dalek cardinal: - move to ports/plumage
07:31 dalek cardinal: review: http://github.com/cardinal/cardinal/commit​/dab2076639469fab967d98144c5ae51892a8b636
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07:47 dalek parrot-plumage: 4eed381 | japhb++ | metadata/ (2 files):
07:47 dalek parrot-plumage: [METADATA] New metadata for cardinal and forth languages, courtesy of fperrad++
07:47 dalek parrot-plumage: review: http://gitorious.org/parrot-plumage/parrot-plumag​e/commit/4eed381617ef976b62136d53b9f3836219adccaf
07:50 treed odd timing
07:50 japhb ur?
07:50 purl japhb: q[merlyn]'s Unix Review columns, at http://www.stonehenge.com/merlyn/UnixReview/ or just a hop skip and a jump away from babylonia or short for URog or a lame way to say you're or Updating a public calendar automatically (Jul 07); Export behavior, not data (May 07); The Replacements (Mar 07); Show me your references (Jan 07); Formatting reports with Template Toolkit (Nov 06) or rong
07:51 japhb treed what was odd?
07:58 aninhumer Would it be possible to have the docs/ directory hosted in a wiki, and merge with svn occasionally? It seems quite complicated to submit edits at the moment
08:00 chromatic aninhumer, would you find it easier to edit and submit pull requests on a GitHub mirror?
08:02 aninhumer That would probably be as easy yes
08:03 aninhumer chromatic, Does one exist that I've missed?
08:04 chromatic http://github.com/leto/parrot
08:06 aninhumer Ah yes, it was the first result...
08:07 aninhumer Nonetheless, perhaps that should be added to the Developers page on the website?
08:07 chromatic dukeleto, ping
08:08 chromatic Let's see what he thinks about that; if he's willing to merge doc changes back in, that sounds reasonable.
08:13 treed japhb: The timing.
08:13 treed That I pushed his changes to cardinal and then you pushed his changes to plumage.
08:14 japhb ah!   *chuckle*  I didn't realize you had pushed his stuff.  I thought that was him.
08:15 japhb (er, doing the pushing, I mean)
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08:44 treed Ah, no.
08:44 treed He has his own repo and does pull requests to me.
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10:10 dalek tracwiki: v2 | cotto++ | TestingProfiling
10:10 dalek tracwiki: more thoughts on dealing with profile size
10:10 dalek tracwiki: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/wiki/Test​ingProfiling?version=2&action=diff
10:10 dalek tracwiki: v3 | cotto++ | TestingProfiling
10:10 dalek tracwiki: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/wiki/Test​ingProfiling?version=3&action=diff
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11:50 dalek parrot: r43423 | mikehh++ | branches/one_make (3 files):
11:50 dalek parrot: set svn properties
11:50 dalek parrot: review: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/43423/
11:53 aninhumer I've made a github fork here: http://github.com/aninhumer/parrot
11:53 aninhumer I've made a few doc fixes, and some fleshing out of subs.pod that was requested inline
11:53 aninhumer Subject to dukeleto's opinion on merging doc changes
11:54 aninhumer (I suppose this is essentially a pull request)
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12:05 mikehh there are a bunch of post-config test failures in one_make branch related to pmc2cutils
12:07 dalek parrot: r43424 | mikehh++ | branches/one_make/tools/dev/checkdepend.pl:
12:07 dalek parrot: fix codetest failures - pod syntax and trailing spaces
12:07 dalek parrot: review: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/43424/
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12:42 nopaste "mikehh" at 81.149.189.7 pasted "one-make branch pre-config test failures" (81 lines) at http://nopaste.snit.ch/19252
12:44 mikehh sorry that should be post-config
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13:30 Coke msg aninhumer it would be easier for most parrot committers if there was a patch we could apply.
13:30 purl Message for aninhumer stored.
13:31 Coke I see three commits on that branch, checking...
13:33 aninhumer Coke, fair enough, I was just suggesting that docs could be treated differently to code in terms of ease of contribution
13:34 Coke still have the same licensing issues atm.
13:34 Coke hurm. looking at http://github.com/aninhumer/parrot/commit​/d3a0c2114055f06862d5558df351b156d75cdb69 ; how can I get that in a straight patch format?
13:35 Coke but yes, having an easier way for folks to contribute docs would be a good thing.
13:35 Coke someone please mention that at parrotsketch today.
13:35 aninhumer I'm not really that familiar with git, I'm looking up how roll a patch from my local git copy now
13:35 moritz aninhumer: git-format-patch d3a0c2114055f06862d5558df351b156d75cdb69
13:35 Coke don't worry, I'm applying these 3 commits.
13:35 moritz or git show $commit
13:36 Coke ah. guess I could have done that as well. be nice if github gave me a way to do that. :|
13:36 aninhumer well thanks for future reference moritz
13:36 aninhumer I suppose github assumes you have a local copy for anything advanced
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13:41 Coke aninhumer: Thanks, applied.
13:42 aninhumer I'll submit patches in future, if that's easier for everyone
13:45 dalek parrot: r43425 | coke++ | trunk/docs/user/pir/intro.pod:
13:45 dalek parrot: Fixed nesting of pod sections
13:45 dalek parrot: Courtesy: aninhumer++
13:45 dalek parrot: review: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/43425/
13:45 dalek parrot: r43426 | coke++ | trunk/docs/pmc/subs.pod:
13:45 dalek parrot: Changed incorrect opcode in example, Removed duplicate section.
13:45 dalek parrot: Courtesy aninhumer++
13:45 dalek parrot: review: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/43426/
13:45 dalek parrot: r43427 | coke++ | trunk/docs/pmc/subs.pod:
13:45 dalek parrot: Added a section on defining subs, and included info on most (all?)
13:45 dalek parrot: declaration options.
13:45 dalek parrot: Courtesy: aninhumer++
13:45 dalek parrot: review: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/43427/
13:52 Coke aninhumer: perhaps dukeleto can easily take git forks and push them back upstream.
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13:52 Coke but in general, we're stuck in an svn world.
13:52 * moritz hopes that changes at some point
13:53 szbalint yeah
13:53 szbalint svn--
14:00 bacek O hai
14:01 dalek parrot: r43428 | bacek++ | branches/gc_encapsulate/src/gc/gc_private.h:
14:01 dalek parrot: Add bunch of functions into GC_Subsystem.
14:01 dalek parrot: review: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/43428/
14:01 dalek parrot: r43429 | bacek++ | branches/gc_encapsulate/src/gc/gc_ms.c:
14:01 dalek parrot: Add stubs for new allocation functions into GC MS.
14:01 dalek parrot: review: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/43429/
14:01 Coke but, however we get patches, thanks for supplying them. =-)
14:02 Coke allison will not be on #ps today. I might not be either.
14:02 dalek parrot: r43430 | bacek++ | branches/gc_encapsulate/src/gc/gc_ms.c:
14:02 dalek parrot: Implement allocation/deallocation of PMC and STRING in GC MS.
14:02 dalek parrot: review: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/43430/
14:02 dalek parrot: r43431 | bacek++ | branches/gc_encapsulate/src/gc/api.c:
14:02 dalek parrot: Migrate src/gc/api.c to use new API for PMC and STRING allocations.
14:02 dalek parrot: review: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/43431/
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14:19 dalek parrot: r43432 | bacek++ | branches/gc_encapsulate (13 files):
14:19 dalek parrot: Bulk commit:
14:19 dalek parrot: - Extend GC_Subsystem with new allocating/deallocating function.
14:19 dalek parrot: - Shuffle functions around.
14:19 dalek parrot: - Add explicit Memory_Pools* parameter to many functions.
14:19 dalek parrot: - Mark cutted corners with C++ comments and XXX markers.
14:19 dalek parrot: Everything is broken as usual.
14:19 dalek parrot: review: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/43432/
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14:32 smash hello everyone
14:39 Coke hulk?
14:39 purl Hulk SMASH!!!
14:39 Coke ~~
14:41 smash Coke: hey :)
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14:50 Essobi WEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
15:04 dalek winxed: r360 | julian.notfound++ | trunk/winxedst0.cpp:
15:04 dalek winxed: refactored break and continue in stage 0
15:04 dalek winxed: review: http://code.google.com/Non​e/None/source/detail?r=360
15:09 dalek winxed: r361 | julian.notfound++ | trunk/winxedst1.winxed:
15:09 dalek winxed: several refactors, fixes, minor improvements and new predefs in stage 1
15:09 dalek winxed: review: http://code.google.com/Non​e/None/source/detail?r=361
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17:20 * Coke wonders if a punycode library function would be helpful.
17:21 * Coke just waits for someone to write it in perl6.
17:21 Coke OH. we could start rewriting our library stuff in NQP.
17:22 * Coke will postpone efforts there until after one_make is done.
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17:41 dukeleto msg chromatic ping
17:41 purl Message for chromatic stored.
17:41 Coke ... that's odd.
17:42 dukeleto aninhumer: did I hear my name?
17:42 dukeleto Coke: what is this talk about pushing git forks upstream?
17:42 Coke dukeleto: yes. if people fork your parrot github repo, what's the best way for them to get patches back to the svn repo?
17:42 Coke I just did a git clone to steal some of aninhumer's commits by hand.
17:43 Coke I'd rather avoid doing thaten masse.
17:43 Coke *that en masse
17:43 tewk_ python, perl5 and ruby all don't have jits right?
17:43 dukeleto Coke: best way is for parrot to use git
17:44 dukeleto Coke: but there are 17 other more complicated ways
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17:49 cotto_work tewk_, python has unladen swallow (llvm-based) but it's not in cpython yet
17:50 tewk_ cotto_work, yeah no one has a jit in there reference impl, almost everyone has an experimental jit with verying degrees of completeness.
17:50 tewk_ perl5 doesn't have a jit effort underway that I know of.
17:50 cotto_work That seems to be the case.
17:50 tewk_ besides parrot
17:51 cotto_work interesting data point there
17:51 cotto_work (java does, of course)
17:51 tewk_ and we threw our jit out for the short term.
17:52 dukeleto tewk_: why do you ask?
17:52 tewk_ yeah I classify java and c# vms in a different class than dynamic/scripting languages.
17:53 tewk_ dukeleto, PhD research, we are working on performance and parallelization of dynamic languages, (particularly PLT Scheme), so I try to keep current on comparative efforts in other projects.
17:54 cotto_work jruby gets its jit from the jvm
17:54 cotto_work not sure how you'd count that
17:57 cotto_work same with jython
18:03 Coke dukeleto: in that case I'll just ask folks to submit trac tickets with patches.
18:04 tewk_ cotto_work, yeah I consider that cheating, :) They get it almost for free, but have to spend huge efforts to *efficiently* map their dynamic languages to java or atleast jvm bytecodes.
18:05 tewk_ They also give up tail recursion and first class continuations.
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18:25 dukeleto tewk_: cool
18:25 chromatic joined #parrot
18:26 dukeleto chromatic: mornin'
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18:29 mikehh #ps?
18:29 purl it has been said that #ps is a status meeting for parrot core committers held every Tuesday at 18:30 UTC in #parrotsketch
18:30 mikehh like now
18:30 chromatic hello
18:32 chromatic #ps time
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19:15 cotto_work 2.3 will be a deprecation point, right?
19:16 chromatic Yes.
19:17 cotto_work OK.  It should probably be starred in release_manager_guide.pod then.
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19:35 Coke I thought I had done that already.
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19:47 Coke cotto_work: fixed.
19:52 dalek parrot: r43433 | coke++ | trunk/docs/project/release_manager_guide.pod:
19:52 dalek parrot: mark all known upcoming supported releases
19:52 dalek parrot: cotto++
19:52 dalek parrot: review: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/43433/
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20:14 mikehh Coke: one_make branck r43407 removes a generated dependancy (include/parrot/enums.h from config/gen/parrot_include.pm) that seems to be needed
20:26 bluescreen joined #parrot
20:29 Coke enums.h is no longer created by parrot_include.pm
20:29 Coke (but anything that SHOULD depend on enums.h probably doesn't)
20:30 Coke (are you referring to the removal of enums.h from the source_files list?
20:31 Coke sorry. enums.pasm now correctly depends on enums.h, but:
20:31 Coke nothing new depends on enums.pasm, and it should.
20:34 Zak joined #parrot
20:34 Coke also, read my commit message. :)
20:35 mikehh lib/Parrot/Pmc2c/PCCMETHOD_BITS.pm is generated from enums.h and is required by tests and the build
20:37 Coke aha. Thank you!
20:37 Coke mikehh++
20:38 Coke I was just focusing on the .pasm files, missed that one. good catch.
20:38 Coke (wonder why I was even still able to build.)
20:38 mikehh probably did not do a make realclean
20:42 Coke ok. know how I'll fix it, adding to the pile.
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20:55 GeJ Good morning everyone!
20:56 cotto_work hi GeJ
20:57 GeJ Hello cotto.
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21:06 Coke /msg purl jsut?
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22:09 aninhumer Regarding http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/ticket/487 are there any cases where s/vtable method/vtable function/ wouldn't be valid (within docs/)? Or does a bulk replace defeat the point of the newbie ticket?
22:11 dduncan does parrotsketch happen here or in another channel?
22:11 aninhumer in #parrotsketch
22:11 PerlJam dduncan: it happens on #parrotsketch  :)
22:11 dduncan okay
22:11 dukeleto <rant>
22:12 dukeleto I search for "parrot nci" and links to parrotcode.org OLD docs come up, and no links to the new docs. This really SUCKS.
22:12 dukeleto </rant>
22:12 dukeleto I just keep missing #ps. Darn.
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22:22 PerlJam dukeleto: you know ... you could write some docs for parrot NCI :)
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22:25 dukeleto PerlJam: that is not the issue. The issue is that people searching for docs get horribly, horribly outdated ones, and the new ones are no where to be found
22:25 dukeleto PerlJam: but yes, I do need to add better docs for NCI
22:25 dukeleto this is something we should fix before 2.0
22:26 PerlJam Is NCI on the radar for 2.0?
22:26 * davidfetter pleads for some NCI love
22:27 davidfetter that being necessary for PL/Parrot :)
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22:34 dukeleto NCI *works* (mostly) but is ill-documented
22:34 dukeleto some exotic function signatures may not be supported  yet
22:35 PerlJam dukeleto: I haven't played with NCI in ages; what's "new" about it?
22:36 dukeleto PerlJam: not much, that I know of. I don't think it has changed much recently
22:38 Coke dukeleto: yes, the search sucks. there's not much we can do about this.
22:38 Coke (aside from insure that the old stuff is nuked)
22:39 Coke If we're just talking us, though, you can use the special parrot google searcher that someone put together, which might have better results.
22:39 Coke (nope, that also hits parrotcode.rog)
22:40 Coke (see http://www.parrot.org/'s google search box)
22:40 dukeleto when i search for "parrot nci" i want http://docs.parrot.org/parrot/latest/html/​docs/pdds/draft/pdd16_native_call.pod.html to come up
22:41 Coke dukeleto: ... talk to google?
22:41 dukeleto parrotcode.org needs to die
22:41 Coke get people to link to the real docs?
22:41 dukeleto Coke: did you take snarkiness pills today? ;)
22:41 Coke dukeleto: no, did you take jerk pills?
22:41 dukeleto Coke: no, I don't have to, I produce jerkotine naturally
22:42 dukeleto Coke: we are agreeing. Let's agree to agree.
22:43 Coke I am unable to find the last email thread I had with the parrotcode admins that covered this topic. I'll see if I can dig it up this weke.
22:44 dukeleto Coke: thanks! who are "the parrotcode.org admins" ?
22:44 Coke perl.org
22:44 purl perl.org is, like, home of all things perl and very rarely way horked
22:45 Coke ah, there it is.
22:45 dukeleto coke++
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22:45 Coke robert was just going to do a single redirect: "i.e. m!www.parrotcode.org/.*! => http://www.parrot.org/"
22:45 Coke but could do something more complicated if we gave him a mapping.
22:45 Coke I failed to give any such mapping after 11/17/09, when I hinted I might.
22:46 Coke so, lazy me, let's just have any request forward to the top level of parrot.org. does that work for you?
22:46 dukeleto Coke: can you CC me or get me into that loop? I will try to help, instead of only complain.
22:46 Coke ok.
22:46 Coke dukeleto?
22:46 purl hmmm... dukeleto is mentoring a few peeps. can't remember everyone. sure.
22:46 dukeleto Coke: that is something
22:46 dukeleto Coke: jaleto@gmail.com
22:46 * dukeleto is pretty darn good at complaining
22:48 Coke sent.
22:48 Coke thanks in advance.
22:48 Coke at this point, just having everything forward from pc.org to the top level of p.org seems fine with me.
22:48 dukeleto Coke: that is better than the current situation, I agree
22:49 dukeleto i don't want people to be getting really old docs when 2.0 comes out. That would hurt us a lot.
23:00 tewk_
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