Camelia, the Perl 6 bug

IRC log for #parrot, 2010-01-14

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
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00:26 chromatic http://www.vitanuova.com/inferno/papers/dis.html
00:28 chromatic http://www.lua.org/doc/jucs05.pdf (the implementation of Lua 5)
00:30 ash_ chromatic: do you know if anyone's doing anything with the stack frame builder? i know plobsing made a libjit stack frame builder a while back, but it never got put into the parrot repo
00:31 Tene I haven't heard about any recent work on it.
00:32 chromatic Me neither.  He's around frequently; he might know more.
00:35 ash_ one thing he did in his was make the stack frame a config option, i have been thinking of toying with an llvm stack frame builder for a comparision, was going to try to follow his method of making it a configuration option
00:37 chromatic That's very doable.
00:37 chromatic I'm sure it's in a branch somewhere.
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00:41 dukeleto 'ello
00:42 ash_ i see there is a detect_llvm branch
00:42 ash_ anyone know if thats being worked on?
00:43 dukeleto ash_: i think maybe plobsing was working on that a while ago?
00:44 kid51 ash_:  I am the author of detect_llvm branch.
00:44 chromatic That's the configure probe, I believe.
00:45 kid51 That was done to provide functionality to do what branch name suggests ...
00:45 ash_ it simply detects if you have the llvm?
00:45 kid51 ... but was/is intended to be merged into trunk only when other aspects of LLVM are ready to rock 'n roll.
00:46 kid51 See http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/ticket/1075
00:49 kid51 See also:  http://trac.parrot.org/par​rot/ticket/1105#comment:36
00:50 ash_ kid51: I was thinking of taking a stab at an llvm based stack frame builder
00:51 kid51 You're welcome to take a shot at it.  All that the detect_llvm branch was designed to do was to say "Yup, I've got an LLVM" or "Not".
00:51 kid51 It's completely independent of any use we would make of an LLVM.
00:51 kid51 See also the libjit_framebuilder branch.
00:51 ash_ well, that was the first thing i was going to do, so hey thats awesome
00:52 ash_ is that like plobsing's git repo? i have seen that with the libjit frame builder
00:52 kid51 Once we actually decide to make use of an LLVM somewhere, then we can merge the configure probe to trunk.
00:53 kid51 No, there's a branch in our repository:  http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/bro​wser/branches/libjit_framebuilder
00:53 kid51 But consult with plobsing about that branch.
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02:10 cconstantine Is it possible to have PAST default vars to a scope of 'package' instead of 'lexical' if the var can't be found?
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02:46 dukeleto 'ello
02:50 cconstantine hi
02:54 JimmyZ hello
02:54 purl what's up, JimmyZ.
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03:03 dukeleto there is talk of having parrot+RTEMS as a GSoC project this summer. could be interesting
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03:20 cconstantine RTEMS?
03:20 purl well, RTEMS is the Real-Time Operating System for Multiprocessor Systems, see http://www.rtems.com/ for more.
03:20 cconstantine oh fun
03:21 cconstantine I'm writting a pir multimethod that needs to dispatch on PAST::Var... and I can't seem to get it to match the type... Could I get some help?
03:21 cconstantine I'm specifying the type as 'PAST;Var'
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04:10 Tene cconstantine: that's not going to be right.  that's a class with a semicolon in it.
04:11 cconstantine it's PAST::Var in NQP, but 'PAST::Var' doesn't work either
04:11 Tene Because that's a class with two colons in the name.
04:11 Tene lemme look.
04:13 Tene use a key.
04:13 Tene :multi(['PAST';'Node'])
04:14 cconstantine aahh, lemme try that
04:15 cconstantine that did it! :)
04:15 cconstantine yay thanks :)
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04:56 Coke .
04:58 davidfetter ,
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06:36 cotto chromatic, did you take a deeper look at the id-objects paper?  It an interesting idea, but I'm finding that I don't know Parrot well enough to say if anything from the paper could be applied with a net gain to Parrot.
06:37 chromatic Was that the new approach to vtables in C?
06:38 cotto yes, though I don't think anything precludes other languages
06:44 chromatic Right.
06:52 cotto I like the idea of a highly-flexible object system like that, but I don't know what benefits Parrot could get from it.  Current VTABLE functions are already pretty fast and any implementation would still have to implement PCC for methods and subs.
06:53 chromatic I'd like to unify all of those.
06:53 chromatic ...
06:53 chromatic ...
06:53 * chromatic watches tumbleweeds tumble
06:55 cotto Wouldn't that stick us with a speed penalty on VTABLE function calls?
06:56 cotto I guess that's an implementation detail to be hashed out once a system is proposed.
06:58 chromatic There's already a speed penalty on VTABLE calls.
06:58 chromatic At least one.
06:58 purl i think at least one is NO THERE CAN ONLY BE ONE, HIGHLANDER!
06:58 cotto the pir/c boundary?
07:03 chromatic That's the biggest one, but there's always the pointer dereference and check.
07:10 cotto I have trouble seeing how VTABLE functions cause c/pir boundary pain.  In methods it's clear because of all the PCC goop that pmc2c has to add but the VTABLE functions are simple and have known signatures.
07:10 chromatic Call a VTABLE from PIR.
07:11 chromatic *Override* a VTABLE from PIR.
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07:11 cotto What's the code path for those?
07:12 chromatic Calling a VTABLE from PIR always goes through an opcode, which thunks from PCC to CCC.
07:13 chromatic Overriding a VTABLE from PIR goes through a thunk which goes the opposite way.
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08:13 chromatic msg pmichaud Please see r43451, per our discussion earlier.
08:13 purl Message for pmichaud stored.
08:15 GeJ Does anyone know who's behind the parrot account on identi.ca?
08:16 dalek parrot: r43450 | chromatic++ | branches/pge_no_namespace_methods:
08:17 dalek parrot: Branch to port PGE not to fetch methods directly from NameSpaces
08:17 dalek parrot: review: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/43450/
08:17 dalek parrot: r43451 | chromatic++ | branches/pge_no_namespace_methods/src/global.c:
08:17 dalek parrot: [src] Made fetching a method from a NameSpace throw an exception.  This is a
08:17 dalek parrot: temporary patch to help pmichaud and I revise PGE and TGE not to fetch methods
08:17 dalek parrot: directly from namespaces.  When TT #389 gets fixed, that won't work.
08:17 dalek parrot: Remember not to merge this commit back to trunk.
08:17 dalek parrot: review: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/43451/
08:17 dalek parrot: r43452 | chromatic++ | branches/tt389_fix/runtime/pa​rrot/library/Stream/Base.pir:
08:17 dalek parrot: [library] Made Stream::Base work with TT #389 fix.
08:17 dalek parrot: review: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/43452/
08:17 chromatic GeJ, I believe that's dukeleto.
08:17 GeJ chromatic: thanks.
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09:48 chromatic http://doc.cat-v.org/plan_​9/IWP9/2008/inferno_DS.pdf
09:51 mikehh All tests PASS (pre/post-config, make corevm/make coretest, smoke (#31666), fulltest) at r43452 - Ubuntu 9.10 i386 (g++ with --optimize)
09:56 mikehh chromatic: Interesting - do we have a parrot on Inferno - has anyone tried
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10:02 chromatic Not to my knowledge.  Most of my interest is in Dis; they have some very good ideas there.
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10:26 bacek o hai
10:27 mikehh All tests PASS (pre/post-config, make corevm/make coretest, smoke (#31667), fulltest) at r43452 - Ubuntu 9.10 i386 (gcc)
10:27 mikehh hi bacek
10:28 bacek aloha mikehh
10:29 mikehh bacek: I have been putting some GC notes on the wiki - are they any use - that is should I continue with more?
10:30 bacek mikehh, erm. I didn't check them. url?
10:30 mikehh or chromatic, for that matter
10:31 chromatic I saw them; they look useful.
10:31 mikehh http://trac.parrot.org/parrot​/wiki/CopyingGarbageCollector
10:31 mikehh http://trac.parrot.org/parrot​/wiki/CheneysCopyingCollector
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10:33 bacek mikehh, in parrot case http://research.microsoft.com/en-us/um/people/sim​onpj/papers/non-stop/ExploringBarrierToEntry.pdf can be quite useful for implementing Generational GC.
10:33 mikehh I put a link to the first in Development Work Pages on the front page of the wiki and the first has a link to the second
10:33 bacek So, you can put some extract from it.
10:34 mikehh I have some more notes on (mainly the algorithms) on Generational etc.
10:34 bacek mikehh, actually SPJ's work is based on Cheneys work (as most of them)
10:36 mikehh yes - I got a book on the subject and been working through it - http://www.cs.kent.ac.uk/people/staff/rej/gc.html
10:37 chromatic We have a precise collector; we don't have to scan the whole heap.
10:37 mikehh It is a little old but the new book is only out later this year
10:37 chromatic (We do have to scan processor registers and the C stack frames.)
10:38 mikehh I think I got that so far
10:38 chromatic Oh, now I understand bacek's comment about vtable modifications and eliminating write barriers for copying.
10:38 chromatic Clever.
10:41 mikehh there is been some interesting work being done on GC in go
10:42 bacek chromatic, indeed. I was pretty impressed. So simple idea which actually will work.
10:43 bacek chromatic, when 2.0 release scheduled?
10:45 bacek found it... I will not be able to finish gc_encapsulate...
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12:25 mikehh All tests PASS (pre/post-config, make corevm/make coretest, smoke (#31669), fulltest) at r43452 - Ubuntu 9.10 i386 (gcc with --optimize)
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12:34 mikehh All tests PASS (pre/post-config, make corevm/make coretest, smoke (#31674), fulltest) at r43452 - Ubuntu 9.10 i386 (g++)
12:35 mikehh At the moment all test PASS on all variants on Ubuntu 9.10 i386
12:35 mikehh heading back to amd64 to complete the testing there
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14:18 TonyC nopaste it out of most channels until my link is fixed, the web interface is still there
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15:02 mikehh All tests PASS (pre/post-config, make corevm/make coretest, smoke (#31686), fulltest) at r43452 - Ubuntu 9.10 amd64 (gcc)
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15:12 tewk_ reference? bacek's comment about vtable modifications?
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16:18 mikehh All tests PASS (pre/post-config, make corevm/make coretest, smoke (#31688), fulltest) at r43452 - Ubuntu 9.10 amd64 (g++)
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16:54 dalek lua: af6556b | fperrad++ | t/lua-TestMore:
16:54 dalek lua: update submodule lua-TestMore
16:54 dalek lua: review: http://github.com/fperrad/lua/commit/af​6556b5e63ee1c2fc64e4c31df6c945bdce6114
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18:14 cotto_work good morning
18:16 dalek parrot: r43453 | plobsing++ | trunk/DEPRECATED.pod:
18:16 dalek parrot: add formal deprecation of 'vv' (and similar) nci parameter signatures as per PDD16
18:16 dalek parrot: review: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/43453/
18:18 Coke plobsing: re r43453 - a ticket would be nice.
18:19 Coke (especially since the string "xv" doesn't appear in the referenced file.
18:19 plobsing search for deprecated
18:19 Coke ok. what's the x?
18:19 purl the x is Y or absolute delta, in Befunge-98 or x11. or shit or ...
18:20 plobsing any valid return sig char.
18:20 plobsing v in return position is still valid. v in argument position is deprecated.
18:20 plobsing that's why the x is necessary
18:21 Coke and that isn't clear in the notice. the primary notice for the deprecation should be a ticket, both the PDD and the pod file should refer to that ticket.
18:21 plobsing ok. creating.
18:21 purl well, creating is no prob...I'm just trying to understand config better...
18:21 Coke (please also add an [eligible in 2.1] in deprecated.pod)
18:21 Coke plobsing: danke.
18:29 dalek TT #1410 created by plobsing++: [DEPRECATED] 'v' as an nci argument signature
18:32 dalek parrot: r43454 | plobsing++ | trunk (2 files):
18:32 dalek parrot: Add TT reference and eligibility to 'xv' deprecation
18:32 dalek parrot: review: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/43454/
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20:06 Coke chromatic: hio
20:09 chromatic hello
20:09 purl hi, chromatic.
20:15 dukeleto a darn fine morning/afternoon it is
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20:54 GeJ Good morning everyone.
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21:06 Coke BOOYAH
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21:50 bacek_at_work Good morning
21:51 cotto_working good day
21:51 purl every day above ground is a good day or I love the smell of napalm in the morning. It's the smell of victory.
21:51 cotto_working Those underground days aren't so bad either.
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