Camelia, the Perl 6 bug

IRC log for #parrot, 2010-01-26

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:00 dalek parrot: r43591 | chromatic++ | trunk/src/pmc/orderedhash.pmc:
00:00 dalek parrot: [PMC] Fixed C errors and warnings reported by Andy Dougherty in TT #1417: don't
00:00 dalek parrot: return anything from void functions.
00:00 dalek parrot: review: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/43591/
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00:13 Coke ooh, something that is difficult to localize. that'll entertain me tomorrow. -> zzzz
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00:49 dalek parrot: r43592 | chromatic++ | trunk/src/pmc/orderedhash.pmc:
00:49 dalek parrot: [PMC] Removed spurious trailing semicolon from OrderedHash (Andy Dougherty,
00:49 dalek parrot: TT #1417).
00:49 dalek parrot: review: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/43592/
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01:20 mikehh I am getting a failure with testr - t/pmc/eval.t - Failed test:  12 with gcc builds (with or without --optimize) BUT NOT g++ builds - Ubuntu 9.10 amd64, since the merge (TT #1412?)
01:21 mikehh sorry that should be TT1142
01:21 mikehh TT #1142
01:23 plobsing mikehh: which merge?
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01:25 mikehh orderedhash_revamp
01:31 kid51 I did a "practice svn merge" of one_make into trunk.
01:32 kid51 The merge itself was much easier than I thought; only a few easily resolvable conflicts.
01:32 kid51 But make test was pretty awful.
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01:33 cotto_w0rk I'll have some time in a couple hours to give it a shot, but I recall that last time I tried a merge I had to get bacek to rescue me.
01:34 nopaste "kid51" at 71.255.53.28 pasted "'make test' after attempted merge of one_make branch into trunk" (280 lines) at http://nopaste.snit.ch/19368
01:35 kid51 but surprisingly, I had a tremendous make fulltest after (what I presume was today's) orderedhash branch merge.
01:36 cotto_w0rk That's extravagantly broken.  I'm not even sure how that's possible.
01:36 cotto_w0rk You did reconfig, right?
01:36 kid51 Since, in that paste, most of the failing files are failing in toto, I suspect path problems.
01:36 kid51 I merged into a fresh sandbox
01:37 plobsing mikehh: I can't reproduce the error. can you run './parrot t/pmc/eval_12.pbc' and show the output?
01:39 mikehh I get the error with gcc builds on Ubuntu 9.10 amd64 but not with g++ builds
01:39 kid51 Trying something
01:40 mikehh and only in testr
01:40 plobsing mikehh: I am on Arch Linux x86_64 and compile with gcc 4.4.2 . My results should be similar.
01:40 mikehh it passes on all other cores, and make coretest, make test
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01:46 kid51 Getting better results.
01:46 kid51 After the merge, config/gen/makefiles/root.in had 'running-make-test' in EXTRA_TEST_ARGS
01:47 kid51 That was eliminated in trunk in r43546
01:47 kid51 Deleting that string from root.in and starting over from make realclean is leading to much better make test results.
01:47 kid51 PASS
01:48 kid51 Dare I merge ... or does Coke want to do the honors?
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01:59 kid51 If we don't merge one_make now, then perhaps we should consider applying to that branch the same changes applied to trunk in r43546 (eliminating --running-make-test)
02:01 cconstantine how would I go about removing an item from a hash in nqp?
02:03 cconstantine or even better, just remove al items in the hash (or even the hash itself)
02:04 cconstantine just %some_hash := NULL ?
02:08 Austin cconstantine: yes
02:08 Austin But that eliminates the hash - you won't be able to store anything there afterwards.
02:12 cconstantine Austin: awesome
02:12 cconstantine on both counts
02:12 Austin How's reason?
02:13 Austin You get your quote thing worked out?
02:13 cconstantine yup
02:13 cconstantine it's awesome
02:13 Austin Sweet
02:13 cconstantine I'm just doing some cleanup work now
02:13 Austin So what's next? A text editor?
02:13 cconstantine hmm, a lisp-aware text editor... I wonder if one already exists...
02:14 Austin Doubtful.
02:14 kid51 lisp?
02:14 purl rumour has it lisp is just for the firmware loader or http://xkcd.com/224/
02:14 cconstantine surely that's not emacs
02:14 Austin No, man. Emacs is a text-aware operating system.
02:15 cconstantine true true
02:17 cconstantine I still have some basic forms to get working.  I'm aiming to get only the bare minimum of forms working then stay in in reason as much as possible for the rest of it's implementation
02:20 cconstantine latests changes are up
02:20 cconstantine in case you care
02:20 kid51 Okay, so the only failure I'm getting in 'make fulltest' in the merge-candidate tree is the one we expect: perlcritic.t fails on tools/dev/checkdepend.pl.
02:24 cconstantine is it fairly easy to load an external HLL file?
02:28 cconstantine that's probably a dumb question, and I don't really need to know how to do it now so... yeah
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02:36 Coke (I don't care if someone else merges one_make back to trunk)
02:38 kid51 Coke I'm ready to do that now --okay?
02:38 Coke sure.
02:38 kid51 ... and I'll remove the branch then?
02:38 Coke sure.
02:38 Coke thanks. I hate dealing with merges.
02:39 Coke -> offline.
02:43 GeJ building post-merge
02:44 dalek parrot: r43593 | jkeenan++ | trunk (166 files):
02:44 dalek parrot: Merge one_make branch into trunk.
02:44 dalek parrot: review: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/43593/
02:44 dalek parrot: r43594 | jkeenan++ | branches/one_make:
02:44 dalek parrot: Branch has been merged into trunk and is no longer needed at HEAD.
02:44 purl i already had it that way, dalek.
02:44 dalek parrot: review: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/43594/
02:44 ttbot Parrot trunk/ r43593 MSWin32-x86-multi-thread make error http://tt.ro.vutbr.cz/file/cmdout/185416.txt ( http://tt.ro.vutbr.cz//buil​dstatus/pr-Parrot/rp-trunk/ )
02:45 GeJ build OK, smoking it.
02:51 GeJ r43594 smoke PASS on FreeBSD 7.2 amd64
02:51 GeJ Coke++
02:51 GeJ kid51++
02:59 ttbot Parrot trunk/ r43595 MSWin32-x86-multi-thread make error http://tt.ro.vutbr.cz/file/cmdout/185459.txt ( http://tt.ro.vutbr.cz//buil​dstatus/pr-Parrot/rp-trunk/ )
03:00 dalek parrot: r43595 | jkeenan++ | trunk/tools/dev/checkdepend.pl:
03:00 dalek parrot: Convert an 'XXX' into �http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/ticket/1418 to quiet perlcritic.
03:00 dalek parrot: review: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/43595/
03:03 JimmyZ E:\parrot>make
03:03 JimmyZ makefile:2802: warning: overriding commands for target `testg'
03:03 JimmyZ makefile:2798: warning: ignoring old commands for target `testg'
03:03 JimmyZ D:\strawberry\perl\bin\perl.exe tools\build\h2inc.pl include\parrot\enums.h lib\
03:03 JimmyZ Parrot\Pmc2c\PCCMETHOD_BITS.pm
03:03 JimmyZ invalid output file: 'lib\Parrot\Pmc2c\PCCMETHOD_BITS.pm' for input 'include\par
03:04 JimmyZ rot\enums.h' at tools\build\h2inc.pl line 36.
03:04 JimmyZ make: *** [lib\Parrot\Pmc2c\PCCMETHOD_BITS.pm] Error 255
03:04 dalek TT #1418 created by jkeenan++: tools/dev/checkdepend.pl:  TODO; fine-tuning
03:09 cconstantine how do I add attributes to a compiler?  I've tried addattribute but it won't work (add_attribute() not implemented in class 'Reason::Compiler')
03:11 cconstantine oh, I have an instance of a class, not a class definition :(
03:12 GeJ clock?
03:12 purl GeJ: LAX: Mon 7:12pm PST / CHI: Mon 9:12pm CST / NYC: Mon 10:12pm EST / LON: Tue 3:12am GMT / BER: Tue 4:12am CET / IND: Tue 8:42am IST / TOK: Tue 12:12pm JST / SYD: Tue 2:12pm EST /
03:20 dalek TT #1214 closed by jkeenan++: config/inter/charset.pm generates incorrect makefile deps
03:20 dalek TT #1285 closed by jkeenan++: Some files generated by Configure.pl should be generated by Makefile
03:20 dalek TT #382 closed by jkeenan++: Using := in Makefiles causes extra complexity
03:21 kid51 Smolder is being recalcitrant again re feedback to submitter.
03:23 kid51 I notice that when Smolder is being recalcitrant, it shows a box on the summary page that reads like this:
03:23 kid51 Platform  Unknown  Architecture  Unknown
03:23 kid51 ... until such time as the timeout runs its course.
03:25 Coke what was with all prop changes on the merge?
03:26 kid51 That's the latest version of Subversion ... or at least the latest version I have on that box.
03:27 kid51 svn --version    svn, version 1.5.1 (r32289)      compiled Aug  6 2009, 20:47:37
03:27 dalek tracwiki: v8 | jkeenan++ | BuildTaskList
03:27 dalek tracwiki: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/wiki/Bu​ildTaskList?version=8&action=diff
03:27 Coke oh, was it the svn-merge props?
03:28 kid51 I guess that's what they call it.
03:28 kid51 All my merges lately have had that.
03:28 kid51 Nothing to worry about, AFAICT
03:29 Coke k
03:29 Coke kid51++
03:29 kid51 Subversion is actually up to at least 1.6.3 (what I have on my ibook).
03:30 kid51 1.5.1 is what came with Debian Lenny
03:30 * kid51 must sleep
03:30 purl $kid51->sleep(8 * 3600);
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03:53 Coke looks like svn:ignore didn't get copied over.
03:53 Coke ah, whoops. no, things that used be cleaned aren't any more. need to do a manually clenaup once.
04:00 dalek tracwiki: v9 | coke++ | BuildTaskList
04:00 dalek tracwiki: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/wiki/Bu​ildTaskList?version=9&action=diff
04:16 dalek tracwiki: v10 | coke++ | BuildTaskList
04:16 dalek tracwiki: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/wiki/Bui​ldTaskList?version=10&action=diff
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07:24 wagle my round tuit arrived this evening, and i'm giving parrot a whirl
07:25 wagle in the docs, it says stuff like "run this: $ B<parrot news.pasm>"
07:25 wagle what does that mean?  is the docs b0rk?
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07:40 GeJ if you see this in perldoc, then most probably. If you're reading raw pod, then discard the 'B<' and '>'.
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07:56 wagle http://docs.parrot.org/parrot/latest/html/d​ocs/book/pct/ch02_getting_started.pod.html
07:56 wagle for example
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08:02 GeJ Hum, ok.
08:03 GeJ Looks like some POD got in the HTML rendering.
08:03 GeJ just ignore 'B<' and '>' for now.
08:04 GeJ and the '$' is the command prompt, so you don't have to type it either.
08:04 GeJ just go with:       parrot news.pasm
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08:21 wagle yeah..  i'm currently busy with figuring out first class functions..  dukeleto talked me into writing a scheme compiler
08:22 wagle pir is perl without the bells and whistles
08:23 cotto technically, so is bf
08:29 wagle just found that amusing..
08:33 wagle oh..  brainf*ck..  i never sat down and figured that out
08:33 cotto It's probably better that way.
08:33 wagle lol
08:36 cotto You lol now but wait until you've tried it.
08:36 * wagle lol's now while he still knows how
08:38 wagle here's the example i bookmarked: http://www.linusakesson.net/programming/brainfuck/
08:53 ttbot Parrot trunk/ r43596 MSWin32-x86-multi-thread make error http://tt.ro.vutbr.cz/file/cmdout/185541.txt ( http://tt.ro.vutbr.cz//buil​dstatus/pr-Parrot/rp-trunk/ )
08:56 dalek parrot: r43596 | cotto++ | trunk/tools/dev/checkdepend.pl:
08:56 dalek parrot: [checkdepends] Trade one bug for another.  Also, upgrade this from a braindead script to a script.
08:56 dalek parrot: review: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/43596/
09:05 ttbot Parrot trunk/ r43597 MSWin32-x86-multi-thread make error http://tt.ro.vutbr.cz/file/cmdout/185576.txt ( http://tt.ro.vutbr.cz//buil​dstatus/pr-Parrot/rp-trunk/ )
09:07 cotto I wonder if that's a case-sensitivity bug.
09:09 cotto Let's see if that helps.
09:11 cotto msg cotto_w0rk Check if the win32 build is fixed at http://tt.ro.vutbr.cz//buil​dstatus/pr-Parrot/rp-trunk/
09:11 purl Message for cotto_w0rk stored.
09:11 cotto I can delegate.
09:12 dalek parrot: r43597 | fperrad++ | trunk/ext/nqp-rx/Rules.mak:
09:12 ttbot Parrot trunk/ r43598 MSWin32-x86-multi-thread make error http://tt.ro.vutbr.cz/file/cmdout/185615.txt ( http://tt.ro.vutbr.cz//buil​dstatus/pr-Parrot/rp-trunk/ )
09:12 dalek parrot: [build] fix target 'installable'
09:12 dalek parrot: review: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/43597/
09:12 dalek parrot: r43598 | cotto++ | trunk/lib/Parrot/H2inc.pm:
09:12 dalek parrot: [h2inc] make h2inc less picky about capitalization, hopefully fixing the win32 build
09:12 dalek parrot: review: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/43598/
09:12 dalek parrot: r43599 | cotto++ | trunk/tools/dev/checkdepend.pl:
09:12 dalek parrot: [checkdepends] minor readability improvements
09:12 dalek parrot: review: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/43599/
09:14 ttbot Parrot trunk/ r43599 MSWin32-x86-multi-thread make error http://tt.ro.vutbr.cz/file/cmdout/185629.txt ( http://tt.ro.vutbr.cz//buil​dstatus/pr-Parrot/rp-trunk/ )
09:17 cotto might be slashes then
09:22 JimmyZ joined #parrot
09:22 JimmyZ nopaste
09:22 JimmyZ nopaste?
09:22 purl nopaste is at http://nopaste.snit.ch/ (ask TonyC for new channels)  or http://paste.scsys.co.uk/ or App::Nopaste or tools/dev/nopaste.pl or at http://www.extpaste.com/ or http://paste.scsys.co.uk (for #catalyst, #dbix-class, #moose  and others) or http://gist.github.com/ or paste or gtfo or tools/dev/nopaste.pl or https://trac.parrot.org/parrot/br​owser/trunk/tools/dev/nopaste.pl
09:23 nopaste "JimmyZ" at 61.144.177.86 pasted "parrot make error on Win32 with strawberry perl" (23 lines) at http://nopaste.snit.ch/19372
09:24 cotto JimmyZ, can you test a patch?
09:25 JimmyZ yep
09:25 nopaste "cotto" at 96.26.227.153 pasted "win32 build fix" (22 lines) at http://nopaste.snit.ch/19373
09:27 cotto if the build doesn't immediately explode, it worked
09:27 cotto lmk
09:31 cotto JimmyZ, is it working?
09:32 JimmyZ the same error
09:32 cotto well crud
09:33 cotto It's off to bed with me.  I'll have a windows box to play with tomorrow.
09:33 JimmyZ and there is a warning.
09:33 JimmyZ makefile:2802: warning: overriding commands for target `testg'
09:33 JimmyZ makefile:2798: warning: ignoring old commands for target `testg'
09:33 JimmyZ cotto: good night
09:33 cotto night
09:40 mikehh All tests PASS (pre/post-config, make corevm/make coretest, smoke (#31913), fulltest) at r43599 - Ubuntu 9.10 amd64 (g++ with --optimize)
09:45 dalek parrot: r43600 | fperrad++ | trunk/lib/Parrot/H2inc.pm:
09:45 dalek parrot: [H2inc] fix on Windows
09:45 dalek parrot: review: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/43600/
09:54 JimmyZ joined #parrot
09:55 JimmyZ fperrad++
09:55 nopaste "JimmyZ" at 61.144.177.86 pasted "parrot make error on Win32 with strawberry perl again" (14 lines) at http://nopaste.snit.ch/19374
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10:16 mikehh fulltest - testr FAIL - t/pmc/eval.t - Failed test:  12 - see TT #1142
10:16 mikehh all othertests PASS (pre/post-config, make corevm/make coretest, smoke (#31915), fulltest) at r43600 - Ubuntu 9.10 amd64 (gcc with --optimize)
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14:23 Coke fperrad++
14:32 Coke make tests passes for me here on SB perl.
14:33 Coke the testg duplicate rule is probably because we have a testg and a testG
14:39 payload joined #parrot
14:40 Coke ugh. we invoke perl to invoke CC every time?
14:40 Coke I wonder how much of our build time is devoted to perl startup.
14:42 mj41_ joined #parrot
14:43 particle much more on windows...
14:43 Coke I'll add that to the cleanup work.
14:43 mj41__ joined #parrot
14:48 Coke trac--
14:48 Coke trac--
14:48 Coke trac--
14:48 Coke trac--
14:48 Coke trac--
14:51 dalek parrot: r43601 | coke++ | trunk/config/gen/makefiles/root.in:
14:51 dalek parrot: testG conflict with testg on windows, so use more characters.
14:51 dalek parrot: review: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/43601/
14:54 dalek tracwiki: v11 | coke++ | BuildTaskList
14:54 dalek tracwiki: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/wiki/Bui​ldTaskList?version=11&amp;action=diff
14:54 dalek tracwiki: v12 | coke++ | BuildTaskList
14:54 dalek tracwiki: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/wiki/Bui​ldTaskList?version=12&amp;action=diff
14:56 mj41_ joined #parrot
14:59 Coke cotto, was that you that made cd.pl show line numbers and makefile names?
15:01 Coke (whoever that was, thanks.)
15:03 Coke msg cotto my plan for the build is to have every foo.pir get built into foo.pbc, even if it is later copied to buz/blarg/frob.pbc
15:03 purl Message for cotto stored.
15:04 Coke then we can key all the deps for going from pir->pbc properly.
15:04 Coke msg cotto we should also distinguish between load_bytecode deps (runtime) and include (compile time)
15:04 purl Message for cotto stored.
15:08 dalek parrot: r43602 | coke++ | trunk/tools/dev/cc_flags.pl:
15:08 dalek parrot: Remove unused option.
15:08 dalek parrot: review: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/43602/
15:11 dalek tracwiki: v13 | coke++ | BuildTaskList
15:11 dalek tracwiki: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/wiki/Bui​ldTaskList?version=13&amp;action=diff
15:11 dalek tracwiki: v14 | coke++ | BuildTaskList
15:11 dalek tracwiki: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/wiki/Bui​ldTaskList?version=14&amp;action=diff
15:11 dalek tracwiki: v15 | coke++ | BuildTaskList
15:11 dalek tracwiki: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/wiki/Bui​ldTaskList?version=15&amp;action=diff
15:19 NotFound r43604 must fix the problem nopasted by JimmyZ.
15:24 dalek parrot: r43603 | coke++ | trunk/tools/dev/checkdepend.pl:
15:24 dalek parrot: Move these docs into the wiki and reference them from here.
15:24 dalek parrot: Add a note to the --dump option so it isn't removed by a cage cleaner.
15:24 dalek parrot: review: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/43603/
15:24 dalek parrot: r43604 | NotFound++ | trunk/src/embed.c:
15:24 dalek parrot: remove unneeded Parrot_SubAttributes access from set_current_sub
15:24 dalek parrot: review: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/43604/
15:24 dalek parrot: r43605 | coke++ | trunk/config/gen/makefiles/root.in:
15:24 dalek parrot: Fix 2 dependencies: one missing with the new build, one w/2 targets in 1 rule.
15:24 dalek parrot: patch courtesy Andy Dougherty.
15:24 dalek parrot: review: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/43605/
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15:47 cotto Coke, yes I added that.
15:49 Coke cotto++ : thanks.
15:51 cotto I like the idea of making the pbc build more C-like.
15:51 cotto That'll make dependency checking easier.
15:54 cotto and it'll mean I won't have to make checkdepends much smarter
15:57 Coke that was my lan.
15:57 Coke *p
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15:57 Coke anyone here using ncigen?
15:57 Coke it's not built as part of the normal build, it seems.
16:01 whiteknight Might just be a good opportunity to switch to the PCT-based variant
16:01 whiteknight at least, I seem to remember that project was mostly ready to go
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16:43 cotto_w0rk good morning!
16:44 whiteknight good morning cotto
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17:27 bubaflub good afternoon, all.  i've got a rather newbie question: i ran make install on 1.9.0 and now want to make sure that my development doesn't conflict with an older version.  since there is no make uninstall, should i just nuke the directory and unlink some stuff in /usr/local/bin?
17:28 darbelo bubaflub: Torch the harddrive. It's the only way to be sure.
17:28 bubaflub darbelo: hahaha.
17:29 theory joined #parrot
17:29 darbelo If you're willing to settle for a lesser alternative, you can install to a --prefix and use that as a list of stuff to delete from /usr/local
17:34 bubaflub ah, i see that they are actual executables in /usr/local, not symlinks
17:34 bubaflub that should make things more interesting
17:37 cotto_w0rk Does anyone recall what the official conclusion on switching Parrot to Git was? ISTR allison saying that it should be brought up at some point in the future, either post-2.0 or post 3.0.
17:42 bubaflub cotto_w0rk: if my memory serves me correctly, at one parrotsketch it was asked to be brought up post-2.0
17:42 cotto_w0rk good enough
17:42 whiteknight bubaflub: you'll want to unlink everything parrot*, libparrot*, and pbc* from /usr/local/bin, /usr/local/lib, /usr/local/src, /usr/local/inc
17:42 bubaflub whiteknight++
17:43 whiteknight Here's my bash function to do it:
17:43 whiteknight function parrot-uninstall {
17:43 whiteknight sudo rm -rfv /usr/local/bin/parrot*
17:43 whiteknight sudo rm -rfv /usr/local/bin/pbc*
17:43 whiteknight sudo rm -rfv /usr/local/lib/parrot*
17:43 whiteknight sudo rm -rfv /usr/local/lib/libparrot*
17:44 whiteknight sudo rm -rfv /usr/local/src/parrot*
17:44 whiteknight sudo rm -rfv /usr/local/include/parrot*
17:44 whiteknight }
17:44 whiteknight overkill, but always works
17:45 cotto_w0rk won't that miss include/pmc ?
17:45 whiteknight no, recursively deletes all files and folders
17:45 whiteknight that's /usr/local/include/pmc, right?
17:45 cotto_w0rk yes
17:46 whiteknight hmm, I didn't know we installed files to that location
17:46 * whiteknight needs to update his macro
17:46 cotto_w0rk It's a recent change.
17:46 cotto_w0rk bacek++'s doing iirc
17:46 whiteknight ah, that magical coding robot
17:48 particle parrotsketch is logged...
17:52 cotto_w0rk 2.0 or 3.0 is correct: http://irclog.perlgeek.de/parr​otsketch/2009-09-29#i_1553903
18:01 * Coke gives a "meh" for the switch to git.
18:01 Coke we still haven't recovered from our last infrastructure transition. =-)
18:02 cotto_w0rk you mean rt->trac?
18:02 Coke more generally, parrotcode.org -> parrot.org
18:02 Coke but yes.
18:03 Coke and rt->trac was a BEAR.
18:03 Coke dukeleto: any progress on the website?
18:03 Coke so, I like git better, and am happy for the switch, but have no interest in managing any of the work involved.
18:03 Coke * or doing.
18:03 Coke if a shiny new git shows up, whee.
18:08 Coke cotto: ./parrot -E might help with 1418.
18:08 whiteknight The switch to git will be much more painless than the switch to SVN
18:08 whiteknight and if we were bright we could maintain a read-only SVN mirror
18:09 Coke cotto: yup. it flattens heredocs...
18:09 cotto_w0rk nice
18:09 Coke whiteknight: given that we now have not svn but svn+trac...
18:09 Coke (that adds to the complexity, is all.)
18:10 cotto_w0rk although it's pretty simple to deal with them if all I care about is ignoring them.
18:10 Coke fair enough.
18:10 whiteknight too bad github doesn't offer a better issue tracker
18:10 cotto_w0rk We'd definitely want to keep a ro svn mirror, even if only to avoid obsoleting all extant references to svn revisions.
18:11 Coke whiteknight: we're not switching issue trackers. =-)
18:11 Coke we've done that once. we're not doing again. =-)
18:11 Coke I don't care if the new one /fixes bugs/
18:11 cotto_w0rk +1
18:11 purl 1
18:12 bubaflub whiteknight: http://github.com/davglass/github-trac
18:13 bubaflub don't know how good it is, but there is a plugin started for using trac with github.  even including redirecting the source view of trac to github
18:15 Coke if folks are serious about git, a page to track what we'd need from an infrastructure standpoint to switch. (trac support. all old rXXXX links inside trac should still work., etc.)
18:17 cotto_w0rk Coke, doing so now
18:18 * Coke failed to complete that sentence; danke.
18:28 dalek tracwiki: v1 | cotto++ | GitTransition
18:28 dalek tracwiki: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/wiki/Gi​tTransition?version=1&amp;action=diff
18:29 cotto_w0rk tracsmac
18:30 cotto_w0rk Gah!  What's with trac today?
18:32 chromatic joined #parrot
18:32 cotto_w0rk nm.   browser issue
18:33 bubaflub cotto_w0rk: i think dukeleto should have some good feedback on the switch to git; i know he recently did an svn -> git transition at his work.  he also taught me git.
18:33 cotto_w0rk Excellent.
18:33 cotto_w0rk I'll ask him to add to that page next time he's around.
18:38 zibri joined #parrot
18:42 Topic for #parrotis now Parrot 2.0.0 "Inevitable" released! | http://parrot.org | Priorities: deprecated core PMCs and VTABLE entries | Roadmap: http://icanhaz.com/parrotroadmap | Latest modified TT's: http://icanhaz.com/parrotbugs
18:50 wagle so, do i want to write a compiler from scheme s-expr strings to .pir, or look into one of the other things?
18:51 chromatic wagle, if I were doing Pheme over again, I'd use NQP.
18:51 wagle hmm..  ok
18:51 chromatic I don't know how easy or difficult NQP makes things, but expression evaluation order rewriting was annoying enough that I wouldn't want to do it myself.
18:51 joeri joined #parrot
18:51 wagle i am planning to do all sorts of wacky things with memory layout
18:52 wagle oh, expression evaluation is easy for me
18:53 * Coke wonders if he'll ever get back to partcl-nqp
18:53 wagle i have a trick: wagle-normal-form, which moggi's a-normal-form was later a lot like..  one person says its "just ssa!"
18:54 wagle (invented-by-laziness at 3am)
18:54 wagle treat temporaries and locals the same
18:54 wagle so make each temporary a local
18:55 wagle conversion is a lot like converting to continuation-passing-form
18:55 chromatic Sure, now write that in PIR.
18:56 chromatic That part was the annoying one, at least for me.
18:56 wagle write a compiler to write it in .pir for me..  8)
18:56 chromatic Presto, done!  ext/nqp-rx
18:56 * wagle tries to juggle 24 balls at onve
18:56 * wagle tries to juggle 24 balls at once
18:57 wagle sweet!
18:57 cotto_w0rk dukeleto, can you look at http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/wiki/GitTransition ?  Apparently you have some recent experience with svn->git migrations.
18:59 dukeleto indeed I do
18:59 * cotto_w0rk throws another hat at dukeleto
19:00 dalek tracwiki: v148 | dukeleto++ | WikiStart
19:00 dalek tracwiki: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/wiki/W​ikiStart?version=148&amp;action=diff
19:00 * dukeleto starts wearing hats on his feet
19:01 wagle use toes..
19:03 rblasch joined #parrot
19:05 plobsing joined #parrot
19:15 rblasch_ joined #parrot
19:17 dalek tracwiki: v149 | cotto++ | WikiStart
19:17 dalek tracwiki: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/wiki/W​ikiStart?version=149&amp;action=diff
19:22 rblasch__ joined #parrot
19:32 iblechbot joined #parrot
19:37 Coke oh, crap, did I miss PS?
19:40 dukeleto Coke: yep
19:40 dukeleto Coke: we gave you all the hardest TTs
19:40 dukeleto wagle: how is your scheme interpreter?
19:44 wagle dukeleto: going to try writing one in haskell to target .pir...  until i hit one of the many walls i can see dimly in the fog
19:44 Coke dukeleto: I'll treat them with the same care and tenderness that all the tt's open are. =-)
19:46 wagle i dont have the impression i can (easily) do what I really want, but at least I'll get the infrastructure for a front-end going
19:47 dukeleto wagle: so you are writing haskell that generates PIR?
19:47 wagle i have a lot of clever memory layout and intermediate language stuff i want to do, and targetting a simplified perl is a bit disconcerting..  but i'll get over that, i think
19:48 wagle dukeleto: yeah, i think i can get that going in a day or so  (without factoring in the 3x)
19:48 wagle will start working on it in an hour or so
19:50 dalek tracwiki: v2 | dukeleto++ | GitTransition
19:50 dalek tracwiki: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/wiki/Gi​tTransition?version=2&amp;action=diff
19:54 wagle eventually, i write it in itself, but hey
19:54 bluescreen joined #parrot
19:59 whiteknight chromatic: ping
20:00 davidfetter anybody know the status of rakudo w/2.0?
20:01 dalek parrot: r43606 | mikehh++ | branches/remove_deprecated_vtable_entries:
20:01 dalek parrot: create a branch to remove deprecated VTABLE entries
20:01 dalek parrot: review: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/43606/
20:01 dalek parrot: r43607 | mikehh++ | branches/moving_core_to_dynpmcs:
20:01 dalek parrot: create a branch to move core to dynpmcs
20:01 dalek parrot: review: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/43607/
20:05 chromatic pong
20:05 whiteknight chromatic: in #ps today you mentioned TT #389 was "more complex than anyone thought". The ticket doesn't have any info from the last two months. Can you expand on the new-found difficulties?
20:05 cotto_w0rk davidfetter, istr that ng worked with it after a fairly small amount of hacking.
20:06 PerlJam davidfetter: I know that the ng branch seems to work fine with 2.0 and that the ng branch should become master this week and that there should be a release this week.
20:06 chromatic Built-in PMCs store associated methods in the NameSpace because I couldn't find a good place to put them otherwise.
20:07 chromatic My best idea right now is to store them in a PMCProxy.
20:07 dalek tracwiki: v3 | dukeleto++ | GitTransition
20:07 dalek tracwiki: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/wiki/Gi​tTransition?version=3&amp;action=diff
20:07 davidfetter cotto_w0rk, PerlJam ok. the rakudo thing appears to be blocking a fedora package
20:13 whiteknight chromatic:so it's just a question of figuring out where to put the definitions if not in the Namespace?
20:13 Coke trac--
20:14 whiteknight to my knowledge PMCProxies are created lazily, right?
20:14 chromatic Right.
20:14 Coke trac--
20:14 * whiteknight toots "this won't be a problem when everyting is written in Lorito" horn
20:14 chromatic No kidding.
20:15 chromatic Because PMCProxy extends Class, it's easy enough to stuff them in there.
20:15 whiteknight on parrot startup, we create NameSpace PMCs for each built-in type?
20:15 chromatic I don't know that.
20:15 chromatic The vtable has a slot for that.
20:15 chromatic I assume it has to be that way to store the methods.
20:16 whiteknight well the method PMCs are created on startup, and if they're going in the NameSpaces, the namespaces must be created early
20:16 chromatic Exactly.
20:17 whiteknight What if every VTABLE had a Hash* with methodnames/Method PMCs?
20:17 whiteknight then we wouldn't need to create PMCProxies eagerly
20:17 payload joined #parrot
20:18 whiteknight but we could look them up in the hash and add them to the proxy when needed for inheritance
20:18 chromatic I'm not sure.
20:18 chromatic Essentially we have two method lookup schemes now.
20:18 chromatic One is for classes and one is for intrinsics.
20:19 chromatic Unification would be lovely.
20:19 Coke will spock be there/
20:19 whiteknight where do Classes store them, right in an attribute of the class?
20:20 chromatic Yes.
20:21 whiteknight hmmm
20:21 whiteknight quite the tricky problem
20:22 chromatic It's not awful.  I think the trick is to make Default delegate its find_method VTABLE to the appropriate PMCProxy's find_method.
20:23 whiteknight that's a reasonable solution. I have a personal irrational dislike of PMCProxy, but I won't let that get in the way
20:23 chromatic Otherwise we make everything extend Class, not default.
20:23 chromatic Point being, a doubly-rooted hierarchy is silly.
20:23 dalek tracwiki: v4 | coke++ | GitTransition
20:23 dalek tracwiki: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/wiki/Gi​tTransition?version=4&amp;action=diff
20:23 dalek tracwiki: v5 | coke++ | GitTransition
20:23 dalek tracwiki: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/wiki/Gi​tTransition?version=5&amp;action=diff
20:23 whiteknight on a tangential note, is there any reason why Class and PMCProxy cannot be merged?
20:25 chromatic PMCProxy->instantiate() I think.
20:26 whiteknight but that should be easy enough, switch whether the type is an intrinsic or not, and run one of the two implementations
20:26 chromatic Replace Polymorphism with Switch?
20:28 Austin joined #parrot
20:32 whiteknight When the Class PMC is created, we would have a flag that determines whether it's a built-in type or not.
20:32 whiteknight PMC2C would generate the affirmative flag. Anything else would be negative
20:32 whiteknight then when we instantiate, we act based on the value of that flag
20:34 chromatic What does that unification provide, besides the chance to get rid of polymorphism with runtime checks and switches?
20:48 chromatic Here's my idea.
20:48 chromatic When we register methods in PMC initialization, create a PMCProxy, store it in the appropriate namespace, and then insert the methods there.
20:50 dalek parrot: r43608 | chromatic++ | branches/tt389_fix/lib/Parrot/Pmc2c/PMCEmitter.pm:
20:50 dalek parrot: [lib] Extracted write_nci_methods() method from init_func() method in PMC
20:50 dalek parrot: emitter.  This will help subsequent changes.
20:50 dalek parrot: review: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/43608/
20:51 NotFound whiteknight: I think your post about pir doesn't take into account the pir role as target language for compilers that doesn't use PCT.
20:52 NotFound BTW the anonymous that recommends Winxed is not me X-)
20:53 whiteknight NotFound: no, I didn't forget about Winxed. But I think it should be easy for Winxed to output PASM instead of PIR
20:53 whiteknight chromatic: good idea, but increases startup time
20:53 whiteknight NotFound: and if you can output PASM, you can call libparrot to do a direct translation to bytecode
20:54 whiteknight the only thing that PASM is really missing there is the ability to auto-allocate registers, which you don't want to do yourself
20:54 NotFound whiteknight: yes, but pir curentrly takes care of calling conventions details. Generating pasm means you need to change the code generator when calling conventions change,
20:55 chromatic There's a tradeoff.  We're trading a bit of startup time for correctness and unification of method lookup.
20:56 brooksbp joined #parrot
20:56 cotto_w0rk Lazy PMC initialization could help alleviate some pain.
20:58 whiteknight chromatic: so find_method VTABLE gets the PMCProxy/Class from the namespace and then looks for the method there?
20:58 chromatic Definitely.
20:58 chromatic Yes.
20:59 whiteknight wait, pmc has pmc->vtable->class with the current Class or PMCProxy, right? So we can keep the lookup with only one redirection
20:59 cotto_w0rk I'm seeing the charm of unification.
20:59 chromatic It's a one-line delegation: VTABLE_find_method(interp, VTABLE_get_class(interp, SELF->vtable->_namespace), method);
20:59 chromatic Does PMCProxy go in vtable->class?
21:00 whiteknight chromatic: I think it should. in a built-in PMC type, vtable->class wouldn't hold anything else anyway
21:00 chromatic Fine by me.
21:00 chromatic That lets us skip a lot of unnecessary ceremony anyway.
21:01 whiteknight jam the class or the proxy in there, be consistent about it, and then we just do VTABLE_find_method(interp, SELF->vtable->class, method);
21:01 japhb joined #parrot
21:09 bacek joined #parrot
21:10 whiteknight I would really like to see some good caching or memoization of looked-up methods though
21:10 whiteknight of course we may need to wait for a proper PIC implementation or something similar for that
21:10 chromatic In theory we have caching.
21:10 chromatic We have two kinds of caching.
21:10 chromatic Both suck in various ways.
21:11 whiteknight I'm not aware of any caching that is done for method lookups
21:12 chromatic find_method_direct_1() in src/oo.c.
21:14 whiteknight that doesn't do any caching
21:14 whiteknight oh wait, I was looking at the wrong method
21:15 bacek morning, good morning
21:15 whiteknight hello bacek
21:15 bacek aloha whiteknight
21:16 whiteknight anyway, I'm heading home now. See you guys later
21:16 chromatic slacker
21:19 payload1 joined #parrot
21:21 bacek msg whiteknight Can you help me with gc_encapsulate branch? It compiles. Even runs. But dies on first GC cycle...
21:22 purl Message for whiteknight stored.
21:22 * bacek heading off for morning duties and $dayjob
21:23 cotto_w0rk chromatic, moving #ps 3 hours later seemed like an acceptable option to most people.  Are we going to try that?
21:25 darbelo +1 from me on that.
21:25 darbelo I wouldn't have missed it today that way ;)
21:27 chromatic We can try it.
21:33 bacek joined #parrot
21:35 NotFound "The PL/Parrot team will be having IRC meetings in #plparrot on freenode" Are you going to post logs somewhere?
21:39 Coke 3 hours puts it at what time?
21:40 Coke ps?
21:40 purl rumour has it ps is postscript or process status or see "parrotsketch" or non-vector?! or annoying
21:40 Coke parrotsketch?
21:40 purl hmmm... parrotsketch is a status meeting for parrot core committers held every Tuesday at 18:30 UTC in #parrotsketch
21:40 chromatic 21:30 UTC then.
21:42 NotFound 22:30 Spain winter time. Good for me.
21:42 Coke that puts it at 4:30 or 5:30 eastern depending on the season?
21:42 darbelo UTC == GMT ?
21:42 Coke darbelo: minus DST.
21:42 Coke UTC?
21:42 purl hmmm... UTC is date -u or "Coordinated Universal Time"
21:43 NotFound darbelo: for all practical purposes, yes.
21:43 Coke er, wait. minus some fractions of a second.
21:43 darbelo Looks good to me.
21:43 NotFound GMT is astronomical based, UTC is based on atomic clocks.
21:44 Coke if we move to that, I'll miss it about half the year due to being in a car.
21:44 chromatic That's a long commute.
21:45 Coke funny.
21:45 Coke I don't see '3 hours' in the email thread.
21:45 chromatic Go ahead and laugh.  I'm a funny guy.
21:45 Coke just "couple"
21:45 Coke ... tell everyone goodbye.
21:46 cghene joined #parrot
21:49 darbelo couple == 2 ? Such old-fashioned thinking...
21:51 NotFound How many are a 'bunch'?
21:59 Coke bunch depends on the item being bunched.
22:04 joeri left #parrot
22:11 dukeleto anybody know stuff about openembedded?
22:12 dalek parrot: r43609 | plobsing++ | trunk (2 files):
22:12 dalek parrot: fix return (possibly smaller) native types from NCI and add test for returning
22:12 dalek parrot: signed shorts (which demonstrated the issue)
22:12 dalek parrot: review: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/43609/
22:13 darbelo dukeleto: www.openembedded.org has some pointers.
22:13 dukeleto darbelo: yes, I am reading up
22:14 dukeleto it looks like I am going to get some hardware from buglabs.net to port Parrot to it
22:14 dukeleto and they use an openembedded buildchain
22:14 darbelo Oh. Shiny.
22:15 dukeleto shiny shiny! I am excited
22:17 Infinoid oh, cool.  so you're gonna write an openembedded build script for parrot?
22:17 darbelo 'recipe' IIRC.
22:18 darbelo Configure.pl is bound to need surgery for that.
22:20 brooksbp joined #parrot
22:22 NotFound I'd like a port to the Nintendo DS
22:32 darbelo I started thinking about that when the RTEMS people first shouwed up. The path of least resistance for cross-compilation should be to add a --use-this-hinst-file= option to Configure and the build an *extensive* hists file that overrides all of the data we pull from perl.
22:38 dukeleto PL/Parrot sketch is happenin on #plparrot on irc.freenode.net NOW
22:44 dalek parrot: r43610 | plobsing++ | trunk (2 files):
22:44 dalek parrot: remove "xv"-style NCI signature fixup code (see TT1410)
22:44 dalek parrot: review: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/43610/
22:45 dalek plparrot: 3aa1b83 | darbelo++ | CREDITS:
22:45 dalek plparrot: Add myself to CREDITS.
22:45 dalek plparrot: review: http://github.com/leto/plparrot/commit/3​aa1b83745b88e4e7e7056c8d8d2b1c2b2a3f1f8
22:45 dalek plparrot: c322ad5 | darbelo++ | PLATFORMS:
22:45 dalek plparrot: Add a PLATFORMS file.
22:45 dalek plparrot: review: http://github.com/leto/plparrot/commit/c​322ad5c3e2989ac7340aa13069f61dfe58aea62
22:46 brooksbp joined #parrot
22:47 dukeleto Infinoid: yes, that is the plan
22:48 dukeleto so do we need an embedded Parrot working group or something?
22:49 * PerlJam imagines opening a machine and finding bunches of tiny parrots inside.
22:51 dalek plparrot: 9209f47 | (Joshua Tolley)++ | PLATFORMS:
22:51 dalek plparrot: Add platform report
22:51 dalek plparrot: review: http://github.com/leto/plparrot/commit/9​209f4760559113a0b9d402d3bd9caca42153ca3
22:51 cotto_w0rk Ideally they'd be Loritos.
22:52 chromatic A wunch of loritos?
22:54 Whiteknight joined #parrot
22:57 NotFound A bunch of couples, so they can reproduce.
22:57 cotto_w0rk and a bunch of bananas so they don't go hungry
22:57 NotFound Good point
23:00 dalek winxed: r370 | julian.notfound++ | trunk/winxedst0.cpp:
23:00 dalek winxed: rename PredefFunction to PredefFunctionFixargs and move some functionality to
23:00 dalek winxed: the new PredefFunction base class, first step to implement predefs with varargs
23:00 dalek winxed: in stage 0 the same way as in stage 1
23:00 dalek winxed: review: http://code.google.com/p/w​inxed/source/detail?r=370
23:07 eternaleye joined #parrot
23:12 patspam joined #parrot
23:16 plobsing joined #parrot
23:20 lichtkind joined #parrot
23:27 Whiteknight NotFound: I don't know enough about Winxed, a default systems language for Parrot would need to be relatively low-level
23:27 NotFound No one but me knows enough about Winxed ;)
23:28 * Whiteknight DEMANDS more documentation and examples
23:28 NotFound Is enough low level to be able to compile himself without any runtime.
23:29 Whiteknight I would need to see more examples
23:29 Whiteknight purl msg bacek: sure, I'll check out a copy and look at it tonight
23:29 purl Message for bacek stored.
23:30 NotFound I recall now that I have an hexadcimal dump in examples in my laptop and forgot to commit it.
23:31 plobsing after I remove something deprecated, do I remove the deprecation notice?
23:33 dalek parrot: r43611 | plobsing++ | trunk/tools/build/nativecall.pl:
23:33 dalek parrot: simplify empty nci signature fixup a bit
23:33 dalek parrot: review: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/43611/
23:33 Whiteknight plobsing: yes, unless you want to double-secret deprecate it
23:34 dalek winxed: r371 | julian.notfound++ | trunk/examples/hexdump.winxed:
23:34 dalek winxed: hexadecimal dump example program
23:34 dalek winxed: review: http://code.google.com/p/w​inxed/source/detail?r=371
23:35 plobsing Whiteknight: double-secret deprecation?
23:35 brooksbp_ joined #parrot
23:36 lichtkind the reason for parrot 2.0 is really just a nother year not a new API ?
23:36 darbelo Kind of.
23:36 brooksb__ joined #parrot
23:37 darbelo 2.0 is a supported release, it's API (unless noted in DEPRECATED.pod) will stay stable until the next supported release.
23:40 hudnix joined #parrot
23:45 bacek joined #parrot
23:48 dalek winxed: r372 | julian.notfound++ | trunk/ (2 files):
23:48 dalek winxed: implement PredefFunctionVarargs in stage 0 and reimplement print and say predefs
23:48 dalek winxed: using it
23:48 purl using it is asking for troubles, it will cause more work than doing right from the beginning
23:48 dalek winxed: review: http://code.google.com/p/w​inxed/source/detail?r=372
23:49 jsut joined #parrot
23:49 dalek parrot: r43612 | plobsing++ | trunk (2 files):
23:49 dalek parrot: update documentation wrt status of "xv"-style signatures
23:49 dalek parrot: review: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/43612/
23:50 sri joined #parrot
23:54 lichtkind darbelo: thanks
23:56 darbelo Incidentally, we've just changed from a 6-month deprecation cycle to a 3-month one. So you could say our API has become more potentily volatile now.
23:56 hercynium joined #parrot
23:57 cotto_w0rk Or you could say that we'll converge on awesomeness more quickly.
23:58 darbelo That's the intent, at least.
23:59 lichtkind why after 8 years develope,ment still API changes ?

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