Camelia, the Perl 6 bug

IRC log for #parrot, 2010-06-14

Parrot | source cross referenced

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:05 bacek Good morning, huhmans
00:06 mikehh aloha, bacek
00:06 bacek aloha, mikehh
00:08 whiteknight oi, I guess I didn't really realize that the lexer completely controlled macros
00:09 plobsing it handles them the pretty much the same as includes
00:11 plobsing anyone on mac willing to use gdb, you could step through 'read_macro' and likely figure out the problem.
00:15 whiteknight ...and now I remember why I hate IMCC so much
00:15 whiteknight reading this code makes me cross-eyed
00:18 nopaste "kid51" at 192.168.1.3 pasted "Output of ./parrot -t t/pir/macro.t on Darwin/PPC (TT #1678)" (734 lines) at http://nopaste.snit.ch/21229
00:19 plobsing it really isn't that bad considering what it needs to do. now if it were an actual assembler in stead of an HLL that looked remarkably like an assembler, that would be a different story. but that would require unencapsulating some things better left encapsulated
00:20 kid51 !
00:25 plobsing ha! found the bug!
00:25 whiteknight ?
00:25 kid51 Line 500 of that output is where it becomes obvious that something is wrong ... and where it differs from comparable output on linux
00:26 plobsing use .x to use macro arg x. x refers to uninitialized int register
00:26 plobsing apparently it isn't being zeroed on linux.
00:27 plobsing (I traced it on linux and got a rediculously big number where 42 should have been)
00:27 kid51 Can you paste something?  Or post to TT #1678?
00:28 plobsing I'll just commit the fix.
00:29 plobsing should be fixed in 47613.
00:30 dalek parrot: r47613 | plobsing++ | trunk/t/pir/macro.t:
00:30 dalek parrot: refer to correct x in macro. also remove incorrect x.
00:30 dalek parrot: review: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/47613/
00:30 whiteknight ...and this is why it's good we got that test added
00:30 plobsing why? the test was wrong
00:31 whiteknight the test was wrong? I thought it was an IMCC bug?
00:31 plobsing check the diff
00:31 whiteknight ok
00:32 kid51 plobsing++ PASS on both linux/i386 and darwin/ppc
00:36 kid51 plobsing:  Thanks for closing ticket!
00:38 dalek TT #1678 closed by plobsing++: t/pir/macro.t: test 'basic macro with argument' fails on Darwin/PPC
00:38 dalek TT #1678: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/ticket/1678
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01:01 mikehh rakudo (7d80cd4) builds on parrot r47606 - make test PASS, spectest_smolder -> #34353 (pugs r31245) PASS - Ubuntu 10.04 i386 (g++ with --optimize)
01:01 mikehh 20 TODO PASSes in 5 files
01:15 mikehh partcl (10737a0) builds on parrot r47606 - smolder -> #34354 PASS - Ubuntu 10.04 i386 (g++ with --optimize)
01:16 Coke mikehh++
01:17 mikehh Coke: still had to modify the curl doubling up of // manually
01:18 mikehh it had http:////smolder.plusthree.com//app//p​ublic_projects//process_add_report//17
01:19 mikehh from the Makefile
01:22 Coke mikehh: lemme fix that now while I'm thinking about it.
01:24 Coke mikehh: done.
01:25 * mikehh heading back to amd64 for more tests - bbiab
01:26 plobsing what is the appropriate printf format for INTVAL? I've tried the obvious '%I' and it fails.
01:29 dalek partcl: f5b0b3c | Coke++ | config/makefiles/root.in:
01:29 dalek partcl: These don't need to be doubled up.
01:29 dalek partcl: (mikeh++ for the report)
01:29 dalek partcl: review: http://github.com/partcl/partcl/commit/f​5b0b3c4855114a939c6696c60822e3d0be20ea3
01:29 Coke plobsing: %d should happen to work.
01:33 plobsing looks like we don't have one specifically for INTVALs or FLOATVALs
01:33 dalek pir: d241de3 | bacek++ | t/data/call.txt:
01:33 dalek pir: Fix test
01:33 dalek pir: review: http://github.com/bacek/pir/commit/d24​1de3e7a246f1997d9073e38a72dea960ba723
01:33 dalek pir: f0926e5 | bacek++ |  (2 files):
01:33 dalek pir: Implement long sub call syntax.
01:33 dalek pir: review: http://github.com/bacek/pir/commit/f09​26e58040aaf0622609d356314d6e79cd579cd
01:33 dalek pir: a12a6b1 | bacek++ | src/PIR/Grammar.pm:
01:33 dalek pir: Simplify grammar little bit.
01:34 dalek pir: review: http://github.com/bacek/pir/commit/a12​a6b1317954654189b79e43ef609dfb6f4d881
01:34 dalek pir: c400f3f | bacek++ | src/PIR/Grammar.pm:
01:34 dalek pir: Simplify grammar more.
01:34 dalek pir: review: http://github.com/bacek/pir/commit/c40​0f3ff4e7a191fdff76305e139c119fde98108
01:34 dalek pir: 3014f11 | bacek++ | src/PIR/Grammar.pm:
01:34 dalek pir: Avoid magical naming of rules and tune "LTM" manually.
01:34 dalek pir: review: http://github.com/bacek/pir/commit/301​4f11d9191c6ced8f9ae9e85772ff075ea0832
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02:02 tcurtis Is there a way to include POD in NQP source code such that it can be parsed by perldoc?
02:03 sorear Put it after =begin END, maybe?
02:04 sorear POD6 and POD5 are not very compatible with each other
02:04 sorear You're better off just telling people to use a POD6 formatter
02:13 kid51 make fulltest PASS on Linux/i386 and Darwin/PPC at r47613
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02:15 tcurtis sorear: Where can I get a POD6 formatter?
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02:22 bacek tcurtis, there is "perl6doc" in rakudo (src/utils/). Not sure how usable is it.
02:25 dalek pir: 541e314 | bacek++ | src/PIR/Grammar.pm:
02:25 dalek pir: More grammar tweaking.
02:25 dalek pir: review: http://github.com/bacek/pir/commit/541​e314e5f6dfb3bf59555e5ad8ce97415780c7b
02:25 dalek pir: 13d488e | bacek++ | src/PIR/Grammar.pm:
02:25 dalek pir: Rename param(.*) into arg(\1).
02:25 dalek pir: review: http://github.com/bacek/pir/commit/13d​488eafe5fa7f0cdf00032dfde74b2b21ad50d
02:25 dalek pir: 36c9e5b | bacek++ | src/PIR/Grammar.pm:
02:25 dalek pir: More renames.
02:25 dalek pir: review: http://github.com/bacek/pir/commit/36c​9e5bf8293cd197806f0e524b630136dd2c97c
02:25 dalek pir: 75cd153 | bacek++ |  (2 files):
02:25 dalek pir: Implement .yield and fix test
02:25 dalek pir: review: http://github.com/bacek/pir/commit/75c​d1539831a6aac4bba32acd66e62ce9c7bed57
02:25 dalek pir: 1a9a05d | bacek++ |  (2 files):
02:25 dalek pir: Last bits on long pcc calls
02:25 dalek pir: review: http://github.com/bacek/pir/commit/1a9​a05d90317df1485c64edfbf0898e526a5ad46
02:25 dalek pir: 8e64bad | bacek++ | Makefile:
02:25 dalek pir: Simple Makefile
02:25 dalek pir: review: http://github.com/bacek/pir/commit/8e6​4bad17b11506bb6d0c09855354481a1f482b4
02:25 dalek pir: 4b00d36 | bacek++ | t/parse.nqp:
02:25 dalek pir: Minor enhancements:
02:25 dalek pir:  - Enable run_tests_from_datafile multiple times.
02:25 dalek pir:  - Enable some "garbage" at the begining of testdata.
02:25 dalek pir: review: http://github.com/bacek/pir/commit/4b0​0d36aac074eb0686681fb289feae9dac54a00
02:25 dalek pir: e291fda | bacek++ | t/ (3 files):
02:25 dalek pir: More tests.
02:25 purl hmmm... more tests is trivial.
02:25 dalek pir: review: http://github.com/bacek/pir/commit/e29​1fda98d229e542dca6ea149f2d5f43fac041d
02:49 tcurtis bacek: I'm not sure, either. I can't figure out how to build it. It's not in the Makefile at all.
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02:51 bacek tcurtis, just run it with parrot
02:56 darbelo ... s/parrot/rakudo/ ?
03:05 dalek pir: 7dadaed | bacek++ | t/ (2 files):
03:05 dalek pir: Migrate macro tests
03:05 dalek pir: review: http://github.com/bacek/pir/commit/7da​daedad95c057ab8e0324788b0f54dcc346424
03:05 dalek pir: 862fe2f | bacek++ |  (2 files):
03:05 dalek pir: Initial shot of macro parsing.
03:05 dalek pir: review: http://github.com/bacek/pir/commit/862​fe2f65036af5ff4a486371193e41c686ffbd6
03:08 tcurtis bacek: Due to a combination of perl6doc's not being built in rakudo's Makefile, it having not been touched in 2 years, my unfamiliarity with the process of building PGE grammars manually, and also my failure to get cperl-mode to syntax highlight files with =begin in them, I'm just going to write POD5 somewhere in docs/.
03:09 bacek tcurtis, fair enough
03:14 sorear tcurtis: cpan -i grok
03:14 sorear perl6doc in rakudo - I've never used this
03:15 sorear grok's only 1 year old, works fine on 5.12
03:17 sorear perl6doc doesn't seem to actually have any formatting support, looking inside
03:17 sorear grok does
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03:29 tcurtis sorear: grok doesn't appear to support displaying just the POD from a file containing a mix of POD and source code.
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04:20 dalek parrot: r47614 | plobsing++ | branches/dynop_mapping (6 files):
04:20 dalek parrot: use '%d' in stead of non-existant '%I' in IMCC tracing
04:20 dalek parrot: review: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/47614/
04:32 dalek pir: 0cfe109 | bacek++ | TODO:
04:32 dalek pir: Remove couple of implemented TOOD items.
04:32 dalek pir: review: http://github.com/bacek/pir/commit/0cf​e1096d9f9c6ed0a3df1b167cbf5dddc716288
04:32 dalek pir: db30cfa | bacek++ |  (3 files):
04:32 dalek pir: Parse heredocs.
04:32 dalek pir: review: http://github.com/bacek/pir/commit/db3​0cfa4177dda7002f059f3af87ff4097f7cd91
04:48 dalek website: tcurtis++ | Adding Optimizations to HLL Compilers with PAST::Pattern
04:48 dalek website: http://www.parrot.org/content/adding-o​ptimizations-hll-compilers-pastpattern
04:54 dalek parrot: r47615 | tcurtis++ | branches/gsoc_past_optimization/docs/pct/pattern (2 files):
04:54 dalek parrot: Start adding PAST::Pattern docs.
04:54 dalek parrot: review: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/47615/
04:54 dalek parrot: r47616 | tcurtis++ | branches/gsoc_past_optimization/runt​ime/parrot/library/PAST/Pattern.nqp:
04:54 dalek parrot: Make $pattern.ACCEPTS(foo, :global(1), :pos(bar)) throw.
04:54 dalek parrot: review: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/47616/
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05:24 dalek pir: da95b2e | bacek++ | src/PIR/Grammar.pm:
05:24 dalek pir: Fix pod_comment parsing
05:24 dalek pir: review: http://github.com/bacek/pir/commit/da9​5b2e26450d02653e38bdd7ece9a74dd7d8f75
05:24 dalek pir: 5064181 | bacek++ | src/PIR/Grammar.pm:
05:24 dalek pir: More grammar improvements.
05:24 dalek pir: review: http://github.com/bacek/pir/commit/506​418185067e3cf53fc324daeeb7239e9f06fef
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05:55 dalek rakudo: 8b0022b | (Martin Berends)++ |  (2 files):
05:55 dalek rakudo: [IO/Socket/INET.pm] rewrite the socket() method to avoid using := and re-enable
05:55 dalek rakudo: the relevant line in spectest.data
05:55 dalek rakudo: review: http://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/8​b0022bd408f407bfca49a6b2d385f8c83527885
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06:16 dalek parrot: r47617 | plobsing++ | branches/dynop_mapping/compilers/imcc/symreg.c:
06:16 dalek parrot: use cur_unit in stead of last_unit where appropriate (required for COMPILE_IMMEDIATE=0 objective)
06:16 dalek parrot: review: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/47617/
06:59 moritz purl: msg tcurtis I liked you last blog post, but sub &foldable ($opName) { ... } is wrong - it should be without the '&' (you can still refer to the sub with &foldable though) - it might work by accident in nqp-rx, but in Perl 6 the & is disallowed in he subroutine definition
06:59 purl Message for tcurtis stored.
07:22 dalek parrot: r47618 | plobsing++ | branches/dynop_mapping/compilers/imcc/imc.c:
07:22 dalek parrot: reset NULL cur_unit at end of compilation. avoids other compilations trying to use the invalidated unit.
07:22 dalek parrot: review: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/47618/
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08:44 dalek parrot: r47619 | fperrad++ | trunk/runtime/parrot/library/LWP/UserAgent.pir:
08:44 dalek parrot: [LWP] refactor without printerr
08:44 dalek parrot: review: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/47619/
09:06 bacek fperrad, ping
09:06 fperrad pong bacek
09:07 bacek fperrad, I added you to pirate commiters.
09:07 bacek It was simpler :)
09:08 fperrad ok
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09:24 dalek pir: 624d6c2 | fperrad++ | setup.pir:
09:24 dalek pir: chmod +x setup.pir
09:24 dalek pir: review: http://github.com/bacek/pir/commit/624​d6c29492acc5824b334e866a4f21607346b6b
09:30 dalek pir: dd7e0f9 | bacek++ | src/PIR/ (2 files):
09:30 dalek pir: Let's PAST it. First draft how PAST can look like
09:30 dalek pir: review: http://github.com/bacek/pir/commit/dd7​e0f91b092dec8ab0657b59ee80bfd8d234793
09:30 dalek pir: e507877 | bacek++ | examples/obj.pir:
09:30 dalek pir: Fix example
09:30 dalek pir: review: http://github.com/bacek/pir/commit/e50​7877fcf53b8a7a55d4e99a707ba58c22f8938
09:31 fperrad bacek, my patch is useless only on Windows
09:31 fperrad and it introduces a constraint, all test files must be written in the same language
09:31 fperrad parrot-nqp is this case
09:31 fperrad s/useless/usefull/
09:31 bacek fperrad, "single language" isn't a problem. I'm going to use nqp anyway.
09:32 bacek And it's good that it's useful on at least one platform :)
09:33 fperrad bacek, setup.pir could rewrite in setup.nqp, but it's slower
09:33 fperrad s/could/could be/
09:33 bacek let's keep it in pir than.
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09:47 dalek pir: 7e2ab02 | fperrad++ | setup.pir:
09:47 dalek pir: fix target test on Windows
09:47 dalek pir: review: http://github.com/bacek/pir/commit/7e2​ab0213844014ca2e5a50de2ae3b9729ad2205
09:47 dalek pir: a079c2d | fperrad++ |  (3 files):
09:47 dalek pir: Merge branch 'master' of github.com:bacek/pir
09:47 dalek pir: review: http://github.com/bacek/pir/commit/a07​9c2d6065ceaed52aea8b18d8da7b2f6355394
09:47 dalek pir: e1b1f93 | fperrad++ | .gitignore:
09:47 dalek pir: add a .gitignore
09:47 dalek pir: review: http://github.com/bacek/pir/commit/e1b​1f93bf98c1e4805394b8f8d7127c0080e2f04
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10:39 dalek pir: f7aeced | fperrad++ | t/ (2 files):
10:39 dalek pir: remove obsolete files
10:39 dalek pir: review: http://github.com/bacek/pir/commit/f7a​eced64b08cf29b526c9df044b4cd7b78b690a
10:44 dalek pir: bff8ab1 | fperrad++ | setup.pir:
10:44 dalek pir: [setup] small refactor
10:44 dalek pir: review: http://github.com/bacek/pir/commit/bff​8ab16e7e98547ab901d8dcf70da07d23ae391
10:54 mikehh All tests PASS (pre/post-config, make corevm/make coretest, smoke (#34359), fulltest) at r47619 - Ubuntu 10.04 amd64 (g++)
11:31 mikehh All tests PASS (pre/post-config, make corevm/make coretest, smoke (#34362), fulltest) at r47619 - Ubuntu 10.04 amd64 (g++ with --optimize)
11:38 dalek xml: ba8ca88 | fperrad++ |  (2 files):
11:38 dalek xml: remove obsolete files
11:38 dalek xml: review: http://github.com/fperrad/xml/commit/ba​8ca883592f77ff33a12ed6946ef6599e6ceee2
11:39 dalek markdown: b0a95c6 | fperrad++ |  (2 files):
11:39 dalek markdown: remove obsolete files
11:39 dalek markdown: review: http://github.com/fperrad/markdown/commit​/b0a95c6d8305076a5e44b7db08ff865de38b57c7
11:48 dalek wmlscript: fd67126 | fperrad++ | wmls (7 files):
11:48 dalek wmlscript: refactor without printerr
11:48 dalek wmlscript: review: http://github.com/fperrad/wmlscript/commit​/fd671264f6b454dce12fb7c1c0053e33aee6e90c
11:48 bacek fperrad++ # distutil presentation
11:51 bacek msg pmichaud I want to extend PAST::Var to support all possible pragmas (:optional, :opt_flag, etc). Same with PAST::Block. Main idea - support one-to-one mapping PIR to PAST. Any objections?
11:51 purl Message for pmichaud stored.
11:53 dalek pir: 0a46e94 | bacek++ | src/PIR/Actions.pm:
11:53 dalek pir: Small fixes for Actions
11:53 dalek pir: review: http://github.com/bacek/pir/commit/0a4​6e94de3c2e5bb351a25d8b57da352a5a443f9
11:53 dalek pir: 5416b48 | bacek++ | .gitignore:
11:53 dalek pir: Add vim swapfiles into gitignore
11:53 dalek pir: review: http://github.com/bacek/pir/commit/541​6b481e841afb115d71ee082d3b04443532049
11:53 dalek pir: ddea14c | bacek++ | src/PIR/Actions.pm:
11:53 dalek pir: Partially handle .param
11:53 dalek pir: review: http://github.com/bacek/pir/commit/dde​a14c97dd32907eae9553ef07d8a090f5cd122
11:58 mikehh partcl - builds on parrot r47619 - make smolder -> #34363  PASS - Ubuntu 10.04 amd64 (g++ with --optimize)
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12:15 whiteknight good morning, #parrot
12:15 whiteknight turtis++ on the blog post. I'm glad to see it's working!
12:18 dalek lua: 6617401 | fperrad++ |  (2 files):
12:18 dalek lua: remove obsolete files
12:18 dalek lua: review: http://github.com/fperrad/lua/commit/66​174017b68975681a40b5aee51ad98b31a7c83e
12:18 dalek lua: ba9e0b6 | fperrad++ | README:
12:18 dalek lua: Add reference to lua-batteries
12:18 dalek lua: review: http://github.com/fperrad/lua/commit/ba​9e0b6ea371ecd4ee1a85b0d964b09c0a846be2
12:24 mikehh rakudo (8b0022b) builds on parrot r47619 - make test PASS, spectest_smolder -> #34365 (pugs r31253) PASS - Ubuntu 10.04 amd64 (g++ with --optimize)
12:24 mikehh 20 TODO PASSes in 5 files
12:29 whiteknight fperrad++
12:29 whiteknight that presentation was nice. I'm sad to see that plumage is currently broken
13:05 whiteknight mikehh: 20 TODO passes? That seems like an awful lot
13:06 Coke whiteknight: spectest on rakudo will occasionally get passes - there's a tool to automatically untodo them that moritz runs every so often.
13:07 whiteknight oh, that's rakudo. Sorry. I thought that was a report of 20 TODO passes in Parrot's tests
13:07 moritz problem is that some seem to be dependent on the ICU version
13:07 moritz so I can't easily unfudge them
13:08 whiteknight I wonder why that is?
13:10 Coke whiteknight: presumably because parrot's ICU interaction requires a specific version.
13:10 Coke (but doesn't enforce it.)
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13:52 pmichaud bacek: (extend PAST to support all possible pragmas) -- yes, I'm somewhat opposed at the moment.  The purpose of PAST is to abstract away from PIR, especially pragmas.
13:52 pmichaud msg bacek (extend PAST to support all possible pragmas) -- yes, I'm somewhat opposed at the moment.  The purpose of PAST is to abstract away from PIR, especially pragmas.
13:52 purl Message for bacek stored.
13:52 bacek pmichaud, but I want implement PIR compiler in PCT...
13:52 bacek "want to"
13:53 bacek And direct emitting PBC from POST.
13:53 pmichaud direct emitting PBC from POST implies that we eliminate (to some degree) the PIR pragmas, I think (more)
13:53 pmichaud PAST::Block already has :pirflags -- you can use it.
13:54 pmichaud If you want to add a :pirflags to PAST::Val, I might be able to accept that.
13:54 pmichaud but I'm not keen on having   :named, :optional, :opt_flag, etc  beyond what we already have now.  I think it makes PAST too low-level.
13:55 pmichaud PAST is supposed to be closer to a HLL than to PIR.  POST is supposed to provide the PIR correspondence.
13:55 bacek PIR is my current HLL.
13:56 pmichaud in some sense, implementing a PIR compiler in HLL ought to be producing POST.  :-)
13:56 pmichaud and skip the PAST step altogether.
13:56 bacek But I do want to use tcurtis++ PAST optimizer.
13:56 bacek (In bright shiny future)
13:56 pmichaud his optimizer ought to be able to work on POST nodes as well.
13:56 pmichaud that's why the base class is PCT::Node
13:57 bacek No idea. I didn't follow optimizer closely.
13:57 pmichaud anyway, PIR really isn't a high-level language, in the senses that PAST thinks of HLL.
13:58 pmichaud and it really seems to me that compiling PIR source to POST would be a simpler first step.
13:58 pmichaud because then one could potentially test round-trip-ability
13:58 pmichaud and POST is really supposed to be the thing that goes directly to PBC, not PAST.
13:59 bacek How I can emit POST from Actions>
13:59 bacek ?
13:59 pmichaud same way one does PAST
13:59 pmichaud POST::Op.new( ... )
13:59 pmichaud POST::Sub.new( ... )
13:59 bacek ok. I'll try it.
13:59 whiteknight so if PCT gets a POST tree at that point from actions, it skips the PAST->POST step?
13:59 pmichaud whiteknight: yes
14:00 whiteknight nice
14:00 pmichaud well, not exactly
14:00 bacek .removestage?
14:00 pmichaud but it can
14:00 pmichaud yes, remove stage
14:00 pmichaud or just replace the staging altogether
14:01 gbacon joined #parrot
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14:09 Andy joined #parrot
14:11 nopaste "bacek" at 192.168.1.3 pasted "Yarrr! PIRATEs are coming!" (12 lines) at http://nopaste.snit.ch/21244
14:12 atrodo Yarr!
14:18 bacek pmichaud, POST is very... stringish. E.g. POST.Sub.add_param emits code straight away.
14:19 pmichaud bacek: you're welcome to modify POST to be less stringish.
14:20 bacek pmichaud, deal :)
14:20 pmichaud I was more interested in getting POST to be "something that compiles" than to have the best possible design for PBC translation.  I figured that would come "later"  (which now appears to be "now")
14:20 bacek not actually "now". But "pretty soon" I hope :)
14:21 dalek pir: 98c9e6e | bacek++ | src/PIR/ (2 files):
14:21 dalek pir: More action - handle simple pirop
14:21 dalek pir: review: http://github.com/bacek/pir/commit/98c​9e6eab8763979f641598ca898b14e66507f8c
14:21 dalek pir: 45d1b43 | bacek++ | src/PIR/Actions.pm:
14:21 dalek pir: Quick hack to mark first sub :main
14:21 dalek pir: review: http://github.com/bacek/pir/commit/45d​1b430e555fe608496308b5561a411cfccd005
14:21 dalek pir: 9a425c2 | bacek++ | pir.pir:
14:21 dalek pir: Change HLL to PIRATE
14:21 purl dalek: that doesn't look right
14:21 dalek pir: review: http://github.com/bacek/pir/commit/9a4​25c264e9cf2405b8e8b4d6379d8bbb332f3db
14:21 dalek pir: c08e9d3 | bacek++ | src/PIR/Actions.pm:
14:21 dalek pir: Skip undef children
14:21 dalek pir: review: http://github.com/bacek/pir/commit/c08​e9d31e2417e84b0bc6d6bcebc548d645396dd
14:22 bacek anyway, recharge time
14:22 plobsing joined #parrot
14:31 japhb Man, I thought I was having a bad morning before ... now I find out Plumage got broken a couple months ago, and no one either fixed it or tried to contact me?  That's ... depressing.  :-(
14:31 ash_ joined #parrot
14:36 whiteknight japhb: yeah. I really haven't been using it lately myself, so I don't know what's up with it
14:36 whiteknight Kakapo is on hold right now while Austin is busy, so PLA and PDS have been on hold. Also, I have stopped work on Matrixy for a while until I get dispatch semantics sorted out
14:37 ambs joined #parrot
14:39 ruoso joined #parrot
14:39 japhb *sigh*
14:40 theory joined #parrot
14:41 japhb seen allison
14:41 purl allison was last seen on #parrot 4 days, 18 hours, 30 minutes and 5 seconds ago, saying: Coke: but, there must be something going wrong in the logic, since it's not getting stored  [Jun  9 20:10:58 2010]
14:41 whiteknight japhb: no word on your grant thingy, I assume?
14:41 japhb Nope
14:47 dalek parrot: r47620 | fperrad++ | trunk/tools/dev/fetch_languages.pl:
14:47 dalek parrot: [languages] now, PIR/Pirate is maintained by bacek++ on github
14:47 dalek parrot: review: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/47620/
14:50 Coke japhb: i had a similar problem with partcl recently.
14:51 Coke japhb: I thought allison responded to you on that.
14:52 bubaflub joined #parrot
14:54 Coke ah, no. processing...
15:00 japhb "processing"?
15:00 japhb Coke, "processing"?
15:03 he silly question time: how do I tell ./Configure.pl that my gmp lib is in a non-default include + lib directory?
15:04 Coke (responding to allison and asking what's up.)
15:04 Coke he: add the include/lib parameters to your Configure.pl invocation.
15:05 Coke perl Configure.pl --help for a list of options. you probably want ccflags, and maybe libs.
15:08 he Coke: tried with --ccflags="..." --ldflags="..." and Configure.pl still says auto::gmp ... no.
15:09 he Let's see if --linkflags is a better guess...
15:10 he Ah, yes.
15:11 bubaflub he: you can also perldoc Configure.pl to see all the commandline options
15:15 ash_ you can do --ask too, to ask you for configuration options
15:17 japhb Coke, thank you for following up.  Much appreciated.
15:17 dalek lua: 8725e93 | fperrad++ | lua (8 files):
15:17 dalek lua: refactor without printerr
15:17 dalek lua: review: http://github.com/fperrad/lua/commit/87​25e93e2f49d17a7c1aa8b1c073ca809266ba09
15:20 dalek parrot: r47621 | NotFound++ | trunk/t/pmc/stringiterator.t:
15:20 dalek parrot: more StringIterator tests, covering mark, clone and get_integer
15:20 dalek parrot: review: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/47621/
15:25 he Of course I needed both --linkflags and --ldflags...
15:38 dalek TT #1670 closed by doughera++: t/library/lwp.t fails after parallel build
15:38 dalek TT #1670: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/ticket/1670
15:44 szabgabx joined #parrot
16:14 Coke slow day
16:15 Coke can someone familiar with pmichaud's recent REPL fixes take a look at TT#1115 ?
16:18 pmichaud Coke: looking.
16:19 pmichaud I think we can close the ticket, as all of the features provided by the patch are now available in HLL::Compiler.
16:21 Coke msg mikehh - I todo'd that failing test in partcl-nqp - should be safe to test going forward.
16:21 purl Message for mikehh stored.
16:22 Coke pmichaud: ok. will do so.
16:22 dalek partcl-nqp: 4f38c85 | Coke++ | t/cmd_catch.t:
16:22 dalek partcl-nqp: TODO failure introduced by parrot compiler tools.
16:22 dalek partcl-nqp: review: http://github.com/partcl/partcl-nqp/commit​/4f38c857bd420d1c4bcbbdea524441b64bfe6f3a
16:27 dalek TT #1115 closed by coke++: show results of expressions in HLLCompiler based repls (again)
16:27 dalek TT #1115: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/ticket/1115
16:31 szabgabx joined #parrot
16:32 Themeruta joined #parrot
16:43 dalek parrot: r47622 | NotFound++ | trunk/NEWS:
16:43 dalek parrot: add a note about 'finalize' to 2.5.0 NEWS
16:43 dalek parrot: review: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/47622/
16:43 dalek parrot: r47623 | coke++ | trunk/tools/util/parrot-config.pir:
16:43 dalek parrot: Update usage to reflect that multiple keys are allowed.
16:43 dalek parrot: review: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/47623/
16:44 dalek TT #712 closed by coke++: Some changes are needed to the install system so that Parrot installs in a ...
16:44 dalek TT #712: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/ticket/712
16:57 Coke ugh, our ticket #s are heading the wrong direction. :P
16:58 Coke hurm. perhaps I am misremembering how many we had over the weekend.
16:58 Coke ... or now.
16:58 Coke 632 tickets left.
16:59 dalek parrot: r47624 | coke++ | trunk (2 files):
16:59 dalek parrot: Add minimal tests for parrot_config.
16:59 dalek parrot: Resolves TT #626
16:59 dalek parrot: review: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/47624/
17:00 dalek TT #626 closed by coke++: parrot_config with multiple options, bad output
17:00 dalek TT #626: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/ticket/626
17:02 cotto_work good morning, not purl
17:02 darbelo joined #parrot
17:05 ash_ can I iterate an ResizeablePMC from C?
17:06 whiteknight ash_: yes
17:07 whiteknight PMC * myiter = VTABLE_get_iter(interp, arraypmc)
17:07 whiteknight while (VTABLE_get_bool(interp, myiter)) { ... }
17:07 ash_ ah, cool, thanks
17:07 ash_ how do i get the next item from the iter?
17:08 whiteknight PMC * next = VTABLE_unshift(interp, myiter);
17:08 ash_ okay, cool, thanks
17:10 pmichaud now that 'open' is a dynop, does it documentation appear anywhere?  It used to appear in docs/ops/io.pod
17:11 pmichaud (we have some folks on #perl6 asking for information about some of the pir:: opcodes)
17:12 whiteknight I don't know where docs for dynops appear now.
17:12 pmichaud I'm thinking "they don't."
17:12 whiteknight I think general concensus is that you should be using FileHandle and methods on it, instead of using the open/close opcodes
17:12 pmichaud is that true for all of the dynops, though?
17:13 whiteknight but, there stil should be docs for the dynops if they exist
17:13 whiteknight not all dynops, no. Internally, open/close call the open() and close() methods of FileHandle anyway, so cutting out the middle man is generally the way to go forward for those two
17:13 whiteknight other dynops might not be so readily avoided
17:14 pmichaud sure, I agree -- switching over just hasn't been a high priority for us yet.
17:14 pmichaud Also, it's a bit of a pain that we have to replace    pir::open(...)   with a long sequence of instructions to get a FileHandle object and use it.
17:15 pmichaud (since "create an object of class FileHandle" isn't a simple operation in NQP.)
17:15 Themeruta Wasn't open and close opcodes going to be deprecated?
17:15 pmichaud Themeruta: they are -- they're dynops for now until the deprecation cycle takes place.
17:15 Themeruta Ops...
17:15 NotFound Now
17:16 darbelo opbots names
17:17 darbelo . o O ( ...or am I trusting an impostor? )
17:17 ash_ would something ever make an NCI object with a blank signatrue?
17:18 ash_ signature*
17:18 NotFound Coke: ping
17:19 ash_ i keep getting a segfault at one point in my modifications,  it seems that an NCI object is getting invokes without a signature set, which seems odd
17:19 darbelo_ joined #parrot
17:19 whiteknight ash_: I don't think it should, but I can't say for certain
17:19 whiteknight there are some extremely ugly bits of code still that play with things in evil ways
17:19 darbelo_ Is 'a misguided programmer' a valid value for 'something' ?
17:20 ash_ it has a function set, so its pointing to a function, but i can't tell if its void foo(void); or if its char foo(complicated****a); or what, hmmm
17:20 NotFound If I remember well, blank sigantures were forbidden, now you need a 'v' return type.
17:21 whiteknight ash_: this blank signature, is it NULL or an empty string?
17:21 ash_ null
17:21 ash_ its somewhere in the make step: "miniparrot -Iruntime/parrot/include config_lib.pir > runtime/parrot/include/config.fpmc"
17:25 darbelo_ left #parrot
17:25 ash_ thats odd, i did an if (nci_info->signature) != NULL) { ... } in the invoke, and it gets passed that step,
17:26 NotFound ash_: signature is a STRING *
17:26 ash_ yea, i know
17:26 NotFound ash_: so you must use STRING_IS_NULL, not just chekc for NULL
17:26 Coke there is a bug report for dynop docs.
17:27 ash_ kk, i'll change that
17:27 Coke NotFound: pong
17:27 NotFound Coke: TT #300 says "I don't know", so don't ask me ;)
17:29 Coke NotFound: hokay. gracias.
17:29 NotFound Coke: TT #1151 works by using finalize, but finalize is experimental, I don't know if is correct to close it while in experimental state.
17:29 Coke dynop docs ticket is #820
17:30 Coke NotFound: can you post a snippet of code that works using finalize to the ticket, and mention you're leaving it open for that reason?
17:32 NotFound Coke: I'd like much more to drop the experimental status.
17:35 ash_ any reason line 22 of config_lib.pir would call NCI's invoke?
17:36 ash_ its $P0.'set_value_type'(.DATATYPE_STRING)  (previous line was new $P0, 'Hash')
17:36 NotFound ash_: PMC methods are invoked via NCI
17:37 ash_ hmm, still weird that it has a blank signature
17:39 NotFound ash_: src/interp/inter_misc.c:79
17:41 Coke NotFound: even if it's not experimental, we still need the sample code on the ticket.
17:41 Coke I plan on reviewing all the experimental status items in advance of the 2.6 release.
17:42 hercynium joined #parrot
17:43 NotFound Coke: Ok, I'll update the one that uses the old name 'unroll' to 'finalize' and add a short comment.
17:43 ash_ ah, its a different issue, thanks NotFound that helped a lot
17:47 whiteknight NotFound: bring up the issue tomorrow at #ps
17:47 whiteknight I don't think we really have a process for turning "experimental" features into normal ones, but #ps is definitely the place to try
17:48 NotFound whiteknight: the process seems to be "Never mark as experimental something you write"
17:48 whiteknight NotFound: yes, but that's a bad process. experimental is only a good thing if people use it and if we have a way to move them into the normal status
17:51 NotFound IMO that sucks. If a feature solves real and long standing problems people must cry for it ;)
17:54 Coke the plan is to review them before supported releases.
17:54 Coke if we agree, then we'll clean it up befor the supported release.
17:56 bluescreen joined #parrot
17:58 NotFound Coke: the find_codepoint opcode probably should also be out of experimental status before Rakudo*
17:58 Coke NotFound: there is no supported release before rakudo start.
17:58 Coke star*
17:58 NotFound Then now.
17:59 Coke experimental status on matters on supported releases.
17:59 Coke *only
18:00 Coke since R* is depending on a non-supported release anyway, updating the status of those elements doesn't matter.
18:00 Coke I am sure that the items you mentioned will be supported in 2.6
18:00 NotFound I hate our deprecation policy more than yesterday but less than tomorrow.
18:02 Coke Better suggestions certainly welcome.
18:02 Coke as it is, I cannot keep my language functional on the vm. =-)
18:04 NotFound Coke: that is thge problem. We can't drop things that nobody uses and probably nobody even knows that exists, but we can break lots of working code and languages with a smile.
18:05 dalek parrot: r47625 | khairul++ | branches/gsoc_instrument (5 files):
18:05 dalek parrot: Added detecting dynlib loading
18:05 dalek parrot: review: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/47625/
18:07 nat joined #parrot
18:08 Chandon So apparently POD doesn't work in included PIR files.
18:09 cotto_work I don't see how that can be true.  POD is used all over the place in PIR.  I
18:09 cotto_work t's just another type of comment.
18:10 cotto_work can you nopaste what's broken?
18:10 Coke NotFound: that problem is not with our deprecation policy.
18:11 NotFound Coke: yes it is. We want deprecation notices even for undocumented things, and we deprecate thigs that don't have a working alternative.
18:12 Coke exposed but undocumented does not mean unused.
18:12 Coke I would rather focus on fixing our documentation and tests.
18:13 NotFound Coke: yes, I'm doing that, but I need to rant sometimes ;)
18:14 Coke given how many times I've had to recode partcl to deal with this issue, I understand.
18:16 NotFound BTW now we have 100% coverage of all resizable arrays.
18:16 Coke \o/
18:18 sorear Chandon: note that PIR and NQP use different and incompatible POD syntaxes
18:22 dalek parrot: r47626 | NotFound++ | trunk/src/pmc/stringhandle.pmc:
18:22 dalek parrot: drop pointless NULL checks in StringHandle clone
18:22 dalek parrot: review: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/47626/
18:25 bluescreen joined #parrot
18:27 lucian_ joined #parrot
18:33 mikehh Coke: is the build process etc the same for partcl-nqp?
18:37 Coke mikehh: yup.
18:39 dalek parrot: r47627 | khairul++ | branches/gsoc_instrument/s​rc/dynpmc/instrument.pmc:
18:39 dalek parrot: forgot to update n_vtable_max after extending it.
18:39 dalek parrot: review: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/47627/
18:39 dalek winxed: r503 | julian.notfound++ | trunk/winxedst1.winxed:
18:39 dalek winxed: stop using .const directive, current usage creates problems and provides no
18:39 dalek winxed: advantages
18:39 purl dalek: nil, purl: 1
18:39 dalek winxed: review: http://code.google.com/p/w​inxed/source/detail?r=503
18:42 cotto_work msg khairul It's been too long since you blogged about your gsoc progress.  Please post something.  Even a quick entry saying where you're stuck (if that's the case) is fine.
18:42 purl Message for khairul stored.
18:42 Chandon joined #parrot
18:43 lucian joined #parrot
18:54 whiteknight cotto_work: that's a good idea
18:55 whiteknight msg Chandon I haven't seen a blog post from you in a while, would definitely like to see one tomorrow with information about your progress and current ideas
18:55 purl Message for chandon stored.
18:55 Chandon whiteknight: will do
18:55 whiteknight :)
18:55 whiteknight of course, I've been completely behind on my blogging, so I shouldn't throw stones in my glass house
18:56 cotto_work but you're not getting paid for it
18:56 whiteknight ...now I has a sad
18:57 Chandon Why doesn't .include in PIR find files in the current directory?
18:58 cotto_work I don't like the idea of khairul driving around in his stretch hummer, sipping Krystal and not blogging.
18:58 whiteknight Chandon: it doesn't? the current directory should definitely be in the search path
18:59 whiteknight cotto_work: I actually like that idea very much. Fun imagery!
18:59 Chandon Oh good. I'm just wrong. That's the easiest solution.
19:00 whiteknight it does work?
19:00 Chandon Yea, works perfectly.
19:00 PerlJam It works for me :)
19:00 PerlJam Chandon: misspelled filename?
19:00 whiteknight okay, saves me from having to create a bug report
19:00 whiteknight and, more importantly, saves me from getting a bunch of auto-generated emails about the bug report
19:01 Chandon PerlJam: Yup.
19:01 mikehh make -j corevm fails on first attempt, builds on second
19:02 whiteknight Chandon: I think Parrot has a -L command-line arg, or something like it, that would allow you to append folders to the list of search paths
19:02 whiteknight maybe -I, I can't remember, I'm not at my dev box right now
19:04 NotFound Both, -L and -I
19:05 whiteknight See? I'm not completely off my rocker
19:05 ash_ hmm, all the functions that are calling NCI without a signature seem to have the same signature, return type: void; args: INTERP, PMC* self, that shouldn't be hard to fix
19:05 NotFound -L for lib path and -I for include path
19:07 mikehh tools/dev/checkdepend.pl - # Looks like you failed 26 tests of 181.
19:08 whiteknight ash_: have you traced out where those null-signatures are being created?
19:09 whiteknight because that is most definitely a bug in the system and should be fixed
19:09 ash_ src/interp/interp_misc.c:92
19:09 ash_ it makes the nci object and sets the function pointer but not the signature
19:10 whiteknight register_raw_nci_method_in_ns?
19:10 ash_ yeah
19:11 whiteknight ash_: yes, the only place that function is called is in PMC type initializers. All methods registered there are auto-generated and always have the same signatures
19:11 whiteknight feel free to fix the bug there, if you want.
19:11 ash_ i will
19:11 whiteknight :)
19:11 whiteknight nothing in that file is sacred. Much of it is old and ugly
19:12 NotFound Lots of sacred things are X-)
19:18 mattp hey guys, were there any discarded gsoc project ideas
19:19 whiteknight mattp: I'm sure there were a few. Would have to dig
19:19 ash_ in the gdb, is there a way to see the contents of a PMC? (or at least figure out the type?)
19:20 pmichaud I often use    p *pmc->vtable->whoami
19:20 pmichaud or something like that.
19:20 mattp whiteknight: i would like to try to start lending a hand in parrot dev,  a simple project might be the place to start
19:21 whiteknight_ joined #parrot
19:21 whiteknight_ ash_: p * pmc->vtable->whoami
19:21 cotto_work The only non-rtems GSoC Parrot proposal that got rejected was for GMP bindings.
19:22 cotto_work you could talk to bubaflub about that if you're interested.
19:23 ash_ sweeot, thanks whiteknight_
19:23 Coke the gsoc projects might not be "simple". you could probably ask here or on the mailing list for other, more self-contained suggestions if the gmp one doesn't work out.
19:26 cotto_work mattp: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/wiki/BigProjectIdeas or http://trac.parrot.org/parrot​/wiki/PerformanceImprovements might have something that catches your interest
19:29 mattp 5-7% Loritohighhighorders of magnitude
19:30 mattp ah nevermind http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/wiki/Lorito
19:31 cotto_work Yeah.  That's a big project.
19:31 atrodo Actually, I've been interested in Lorito
19:31 cotto_work atrodo, great.  What about it interests you?
19:32 cotto_work or more specifically, is there something you'd like to work on when the time is right?
19:34 atrodo I'm not real particular on the specifics, but getting in and learning things that low level has always been interesting to me
19:34 hercynium joined #parrot
19:36 whiteknight atrodo: definitely interesting
19:37 cotto_work ok.  Feel free to follow along and let me know if you want to jump in.
19:37 cotto_work cotto?
19:37 purl hmmm... cotto is Christoph Otto <mailto:christoph@mksig.org> or a cooked salami or The Decider
19:37 whiteknight The Decider!
19:37 cotto_work cotto is also the Lorito Coordinator
19:37 purl okay, cotto_work.
19:37 cotto_work istr that darbelo added that one
19:37 whiteknight cotto_work?
19:38 whiteknight ...nutin'
19:38 cotto_work I'm a mystery.
19:38 whiteknight wrapped in an enigma
19:43 mattp whiteknight: i actually spoke to you many months ago when i was looking for a 4th year thesis project, i was looking into some garbage collection stuff
19:43 whiteknight mattp: I might vaguely remember that
19:44 mattp but you ultimately said it probably wasnt a good idea due to the state of the GC internals at the time. it was about writing alternate garbage collector engines
19:44 mattp has progress been made there?
19:44 mikehh All tests PASS (pre/post-config, make corevm/make coretest, smoke (#34377), fulltest) at r47627 - Ubuntu 10.04 amd64 (gcc)
19:45 whiteknight mattp: significant progress. bacek has a branch right now to write up several alternate cores. He's even prototyped some of them in perl6-ish pseudocode
19:45 mattp i see 'implement sweep-free GC' and 'implement garbage-first GC' as two suggestions on the performance improvements page
19:45 bubaflub mattp: i know bacek is working with the GC internals, you might be able to work out something with him
19:46 whiteknight http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/wiki/GCMassacre
19:48 whiteknight mattp: best way to get started with any project is to start reading over the relevant code, finding things that suck, making patches, and sending them in
19:49 whiteknight do that enough, and we'll eventually get so tired of dealing with your patches that we give you a commit bit so you can do it your damned self :)
19:49 dalek rakudo: cfbeb5a | moritz++ | build/PARROT_REVISION:
19:49 dalek rakudo: bump PARROT_REVISION to get some testing; we are close to the next parrot
19:49 dalek rakudo: release already
19:49 dalek rakudo: review: http://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/c​fbeb5a05cb5e32773aceaa7c589af937ec33476
19:50 whiteknight mattp: reading the code like that is simultaneously a good way for you to find the subsystems in the most distress and also find the things that you are most interested in fixing
19:51 cotto_work +1 to what whiteknight said
19:53 mattp whiteknight: this is true. ill try :)
19:54 whiteknight mattp: excellent! If you have any questions or need any help, never hesitate to ask
19:55 whiteknight we're very rarely crabby
19:56 whiteknight purl msg bacek in the GCMassacre page you mention "Alexandresku's SmallObjectAllocator", do you have a link or something to that? I would like to see more information about it
19:56 purl Message for bacek stored.
19:57 atrodo whiteknight> I know this to be true.  Some other channels are not as kind as ya'll
19:59 whiteknight atrodo: true. We do like to be more friendly than some other channels and projects
19:59 * whiteknight considers mentioning #perl, but thinks better of it...
19:59 pjcj joined #parrot
20:00 atrodo My other theory is that since this is a more technical project, people with simple questions arn't as likely to enter
20:01 whiteknight you think? It would make me sad to think that people were being scared away from here
20:01 sorear and yet our community still has freaks like ank
20:01 dalek parrot: r47628 | pmichaud++ | trunk/compilers/pct/src/PAST/Compiler.pir:
20:01 dalek parrot: [pct]:  Correct signature of 'splice' in PAST::Compiler.
20:01 dalek parrot: review: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/47628/
20:02 atrodo Not so much scared as not interested.  Parrot attracts people that like working lowerlevel and technical, not trying to make a random website
20:03 bubaflub sorear: thanks for your help over the weekend; i've got parrot building almost completely on RTEMS, just breaking on the linking and ldflags
20:04 sorear how does it break?
20:04 Psyche^ joined #parrot
20:04 bubaflub it can't find pthreads
20:04 bubaflub i'm passing it -lpthreads but i believe i need to supply the correctly ld_flags or link_flags
20:13 * whiteknight is heading home. Later
20:13 Chandon Why does .tailcall run into the max recursion depth? Isn't that sort of missing the point?
20:13 mikehh All tests PASS (pre/post-config, make corevm/make coretest, smoke (#34378), fulltest) at r47627 - Ubuntu 10.04 amd64 (gcc with --optimize)
20:14 dalek tracwiki: v32 | whiteknight++ | GCTasklist
20:14 dalek tracwiki: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/wiki/G​CTasklist?version=32&amp;action=diff
20:18 cotto_work Nice.  khairul posted a blog entry without even having seen my purl message (unless he's following the log).
20:20 ash_ i need to make more blog posts :-\
20:20 * ash_ is not good at the whole blogging thing
20:20 bubaflub ash_: me neither
20:20 bubaflub i try to have at least one a week after i meet with the mentors
20:20 bubaflub at least a little summary of work done since last week
20:21 bubaflub the tough part is having something to show in one week's time...
20:21 ash_ i have stuff to show, but making it worth writing about is hard
20:21 bubaflub ah.  mine is trying to get parrot to build...
20:21 bubaflub doesn't always sound great to say "yep, still breaking the build."
20:22 ash_ knowing i hand crafted a parser for signatures is neat, but its not integrated into parrot properly so no one would really know its there
20:31 szabgabx joined #parrot
20:32 ash_ from a METHOD how do you set the result of the method?
20:34 ash_ oh, i see it now, nevermind
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20:53 moritz purl, msg chromatic could you please release Pod::PseudoPod::LaTeX with latest patches from github? would be very helpful to book development
20:53 purl Message for chromatic stored.
20:54 mikehh rakudo (cfbeb5a) builds on parrot r47627 - make test PASS, spectest_smolder -> #34380 (pugs r31257) PASS - Ubuntu 10.04 amd64 (gcc with --optimize)
20:54 mikehh 20 TODO PASSes in 5 files
21:01 bubaflub sorear: ping
21:03 sorear bubaflub: pong
21:04 bubaflub sorear: false alarm for now, i think i figured out the problem with my linking
21:09 whiteknight joined #parrot
21:12 cotto_work msg khairul Never mind about the blog post.  I see you posted one shortly after I sent the previous message.
21:12 purl Message for khairul stored.
21:15 atrodo cotto_work> Is the Lorito plan basically to gut the parrot core and replace it with a set of small ops that the current parrot ops are built on top of?
21:16 cotto_work not so much gut as design and gradually replace
21:17 cotto_work we want to avoid big sudden transitions wherever possible
21:18 atrodo Right, maybe the use of the word gut was a bit strong, but when it's done, the current ops will not be around, right?
21:18 cotto_work They will.  They'll just be implemented in lorito.
21:19 cotto_work existing PIR code should run without any changes
21:19 atrodo Okay, I get it now.
21:19 whiteknight ops really represent only a small fraction of Parrot's capabilities
21:19 atrodo So, to make an analogy, when done, the parrot ops will be a CISC that gets translated into a lorito RISC to be ran?
21:20 whiteknight atrodo: exactly lke that
21:20 whiteknight Lorito in this case is the microcode
21:20 cotto_work atrodo: that's a very good way to phrase it.
21:20 bubaflub will PASM still fit into this picture?
21:20 atrodo That was actually going to be another question I had
21:22 darbelo PASM will eventually become 'Textual PBC'
21:22 cotto_work That was its original intent but pbc and pasm have diverged.
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21:40 sorear it should be noted that Lorito isn't necessarily "like PIR but lower level"
21:40 sorear it's design is very much not nailed down
21:40 sorear actually, one of the strongest contenders is to make Lorito simply be LLVM IR
21:40 NotFound I'd say that there is no picture yet, just some carbon drafts.
21:54 ash_ sorear: llvm IR can't do everything parrot needs
21:55 cotto_work we also don't want to be tied directly to the platforms supported by llvm
21:55 ash_ sorear: but, hopefully it will do enough, part of my GSoC is to implement a stack frame builder in llvm-ir
21:57 mikehh Coke: partcl make test reports - Files=74, Tests=1382,PASS, partcl-nqp - Files=46, Tests=672 FAIL
21:57 ash_ llvm really is only supported on x86, x86_64, ppc, pcc64 and arm, there are other targets for code generation but they are not tests and some are incomplete, like avr, alpha, itanium, sparc, lots of others
22:12 Chandon joined #parrot
22:13 ash_ can i call  _dumper from C?
22:25 whiteknight the easier it is to translate Lorito into LLVM IR, the easier it wil be for us to produce a robust, effective JIT
22:25 whiteknight so that's a major design goal
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22:40 ash_ a stack frame builder thats implemented in llvm-ir could dump its contents pretty easily, so you could see the glue-code for that, all that that would give you is effectively the C calls to all of the library methods, but built dynamically. For the llvm, a next big step would be to have parts of the library in llvm-ir form so you could run the llvm optimizations over the resulting code to apply all of its optimizations it knows of to the
22:40 ash_ plus you could write your own optimization passes for things you know about that the llvm might now  (like to pull constants out of PMC's or something that requires knowledge of parrot's data structures)
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23:19 dalek parrot: r47629 | tcurtis++ | branches/gsoc_past_optimization/d​ocs/pct/pattern/past_pattern.pod:
23:19 dalek parrot: Add docs for .ACCEPTSGLOBALLY and .ACCEPTSEXACTLY.
23:19 dalek parrot: review: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/47629/
23:52 cotto_work http://jacobian.org/writing/great-documentation/
23:55 dalek TT #1680 created by jkeenan++: t/steps/gen/opengl-01.t: Tests for verbose output fail when OpenGL not ...
23:55 dalek TT #1680: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/ticket/1680

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