Camelia, the Perl 6 bug

IRC log for #parrot, 2010-07-22

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Time Nick Message
00:11 dalek rakudo: c633afc | jonathan++ | src/cheats/parrot/Sub.pir:
00:11 dalek rakudo: Make sure that if the static sub had its $!do changed, all the dynamics also
00:11 dalek rakudo: will have that $!do. Makes it possible to fix wrap properly later, but more
00:11 dalek rakudo: immediately makes Zavolaj work again.
00:11 dalek rakudo: review: http://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/c​633afc74f237b0051d3139a996af97ee9af64dd
00:30 theory joined #parrot
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00:54 dalek tracwiki: v6 | cotto++ | LoritoDesignQuestions
00:54 dalek tracwiki: answer a few more questions
00:54 dalek tracwiki: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/wiki/Lorito​DesignQuestions?version=6&action=diff
00:57 cotto_work whiteknight++
01:14 jnthn cotto_work: "MMD will be implemented op top of Lorito."
01:14 jnthn Did you really mean "op top"? :-)
01:16 kthakore ...
01:16 kthakore hi again
01:16 purl oh, you're back!
01:16 kthakore who to bug now?
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01:16 kthakore hi jnthn
01:16 kthakore jnthn: may I disturb your mental recesses with some pmc?
01:17 jnthn My recesses are SO mental.
01:17 jnthn ;-)
01:17 jnthn er, yes :-)
01:17 cotto_work nope.  thanks for noticing
01:17 jnthn cotto_work: Freud says hi ;-)
01:17 jnthn kthakore: Which one?
01:17 kthakore jnthn: see ... I am working on #1639
01:17 cotto_work jnthn: could have been worse
01:18 jnthn kthakore: OK.
01:18 kthakore jnthn: but ... when I do that test in t/stringhandle.t.
01:18 jnthn kthakore: Hm. Until this ticket, I didn't know there was a StringHandle PMC...
01:18 kthakore jnthn: me niether \o/
01:19 kthakore jnthn: well ... I follow the gdb code real closely for ifh = new ['StringHandle']
01:19 jnthn Oh...is it just like a file handle but writes to a string?
01:19 kthakore jnthn: it seems to be making a FileHandle (it goes into filehandle.pmc)
01:20 kthakore jnthn: yeah ... but the utf8 is showing as fixed_8
01:20 kthakore jnthn: when it is opened
01:20 kthakore I have no freaking clue why?
01:20 kthakore I followed the gdb tail ... but it never hits stringhandle.pmc
01:21 jnthn That's...odd.
01:21 jnthn I mean, StringHandle apppears to inherit from Handle, so seeing it in there wouldn't be surprising...
01:21 cotto_work kthakore: can you explain the steps you're going through?
01:21 jnthn Oh. Handle is...empty.
01:21 jnthn Near enough.
01:21 purl near enough is probably good enough :)
01:22 kthakore http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/brows​er/trunk/t/pmc/stringhandle.t#L696
01:22 kthakore cotto_work: ok
01:22 jnthn kthakore: Anyway, this bit of Parrot really ain't familiar to me, so I'm probably a bad guide to it. :-)
01:22 kthakore I pulled out that pir code there into foo.pir
01:22 kthakore jnthn: oh well
01:23 kthakore cotto_work: then I do gdb --args ./parrot foo.pir
01:24 kthakore cotto_work: break src/io/api.c:92
01:24 kthakore http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/​browser/trunk/src/io/api.c#L92
01:24 kthakore cotto_work: then I do s
01:24 kthakore cotto_work: all the way ... and do p encoding->strstart
01:24 kthakore as soon as I can
01:24 kthakore but it never seems to get there
01:24 kthakore ...
01:25 cotto_work What makes you think it should get there?
01:26 kthakore because it is doing ifh = new ['StringHandle']
01:27 kthakore so that should call something in strinhandle.pmc
01:27 kthakore right?
01:27 kthakore $S0 = ifh.'readall'()
01:27 kthakore then that
01:27 purl it has been said that then that is a bug.
01:27 kthakore should be in the readall()
01:27 kthakore which it never gets too
01:27 kthakore it is so baffeling
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01:28 dalek tracwiki: v7 | cotto++ | LoritoDesignQuestions
01:28 dalek tracwiki: too many ops on the brain.  jnthn++ for noticing
01:28 dalek tracwiki: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/wiki/Lorito​DesignQuestions?version=7&action=diff
01:29 cotto_work Sure.  It'd be calling the C function Parrot_StringHandle_init.
01:29 cotto_work (for new ['StringHandle']
01:29 cotto_work )
01:29 kthakore right
01:29 cotto_work readall should call the C function Parrot_StringHandle_nci_readall
01:29 kthakore so I am not crazy
01:30 kthakore but I do break in the init()
01:30 kthakore never gets there
01:30 kthakore ...
01:30 kthakore WHY?
01:30 kthakore it is calling Perl_io_new
01:33 nopaste "cotto_work" at 192.168.1.3 pasted "wfm" (36 lines) at http://nopaste.snit.ch/22202
01:33 kthakore kill me now
01:33 kthakore why?
01:33 kthakore ok can you commet out the open and readall calls?
01:34 kthakore do you still get fixed_8 ?
01:34 cotto_work it's in the nopaste
01:36 kthakore I know
01:36 kthakore cotto_work: I saw
01:36 kthakore but I am trying to narrow down in what call it is
01:36 kthakore cotto_work: I did make clean
01:36 kthakore and then make
01:36 kthakore it FINALLY WORKS :\
01:36 kthakore still fail tests
01:44 dalek rakudo: 82b1b78 | (Solomon Foster)++ | src/core/operators.pm:
01:44 dalek rakudo: Allow Int factors in geometric series if possible.
01:44 dalek rakudo: review: http://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/8​2b1b7823cd865fcdbb62928eb53d00d96adcebf
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01:50 plobsing lets try that again. ping ash_
01:51 ash_ plobsing: pong
01:52 ash_ http://gist.github.com/485457 is my current work on the new nci_thunk generating file
01:52 plobsing OK good. I was wondering where your new work was. You haven't commited to your git branch for a while.
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01:53 ash_ its all in 1 file for now, but i am planning on separating it into a few files, when i can figure out where they belong
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01:53 ash_ i have tests, a grammar with actions and a thunk object, i am making progress on it
01:56 plobsing are there any points which are giving you trouble?
01:56 ash_ not yet, just working on the manual translation from one to the other
01:57 ash_ the reason i haven't pushed anything to my branch is i was working on my sample of the llvm-ir form
01:57 ash_ to have the manual translation of pir -> pbc -> llvm-ir
01:58 ash_ i spent a lot of time running in circles trying to understand all the stuff i needed to to get that to work
01:58 plobsing how is that side of things doing?
01:58 ash_ it seems like it should work in theory, but in practice, i couldn't get it to work
01:59 ash_ for example, say, your code is simply $I0 = 4; $I1 = $I0 + 3;
01:59 ash_ thats simple, that should be possible to end up as 2 declarations and 1 add op
02:00 plobsing I wish it were that simple. What's the complication?
02:00 ash_ that is really just a call to Parrot_add_ic_ic
02:00 ash_ with a few INTVAL vars
02:01 ash_ err, Parrot_add_i_ic
02:01 ash_ but, that translation should be possible too, but looking at how the embed stuff works, there is a lot of stuff that you have to setup
02:01 ash_ like setting up the interp
02:02 plobsing there should be examples of that somewhere
02:03 ash_ long story short, i started trying to have a perl script that goes to llvm-ir directly, then i did it to a C middle form, for parts, and compiled with -emit-llvm  and grabbed the llvm-ir from that, then i ran into problems understanding how to do certain things, the biggest was setting up the constant table for the interp
02:03 ash_ i feel like i am chasing my tail on that a bit
02:04 plobsing ash_: if you are merely threading calls to op-functions together (as opposed to introspecting their bodies) you need an instruction stream anyways.
02:04 plobsing So what I would do is augment PBC with an llvm-ir segment
02:04 cotto ~~
02:04 plobsing that way, you have code to set up your constant table etc
02:06 ash_ i almost wonder if it would be easier/better/smarter? to try to do this with PAST .emit's
02:07 ash_ PAST/POST not sure which is the right term here
02:07 tcurtis POST is the lower level of the two.
02:08 * pmichaud wonders if we should introduce a PEST type.  :-)
02:08 ash_ ultimate goal, is i think there is a  possible speed up but unrolling the runloop, where to do it, when to do it, and how to do it are escaping me still, but i am trying
02:08 ash_ just not making as much progress as i'd like to
02:10 plobsing ash_: POST -> llvm-ir seems workable. It is less general that PBC -> llvm-ir, but would still likely be useful.
02:10 kthakore win 2
02:10 plobsing lose 1
02:11 ash_ where do you think its best i try?
02:12 plobsing It depends on what the goal is. If the goal is to inform later decisions about JIT, POST is much less useful than PBC.
02:12 plobsing If the goal is to improve the performance of PCT-based languages, POST is probably great.
02:14 plobsing both are worthy objectives.
02:14 ash_ well, the reason i'd use the llvm is you can it what definitions are of functions (like what Parrot_add_i_ic's body is) then when you run optimizaiton passes over it, it can inline it (at runtime) or maybe re-arrange the order of things, or find duplicate calls with the same params, etc.
02:14 ash_ just about all C compilers do the same thing (at compile time) so if you could translate it to C, you'd get similiar benefits without it being as dynamic
02:16 ash_ hence why i was thinking it would be possible to do similar stuff with pbc_to_exe
02:16 plobsing that's deep introspection and is likely to be very tricky. I doubt its feasible for 1 person in the duration of GSoC.
02:17 plobsing Not that we don't want that eventually.
02:18 plobsing Where I thought you were going was simply stringing calls to the op-functions together (to get a nice speedup from the branch predictor)
02:18 ash_ i could start off with that for now
02:19 ash_ that seems like a good reasonable goal
02:19 ash_ that was just the overall thing i would like to do (eventually, probably after gsoc is over)
02:21 plobsing and if the simpler approach works out well, you can probably build the better, harder, more complete solution off of it.
02:23 ash_ so, stringing calls together, first, do you think it  should be done in something like pbc_to_exe?
02:23 * plobsing glances over pbc_to_exe again
02:26 plobsing I think building it as a tool separate from the main parrot executable offers opportunities to make things easier
02:26 ash_ alright
02:26 plobsing the alternative being to build a runcore, which looks fairly hairy to me
02:27 ash_ me too
02:30 plobsing anything your still unclear about?
02:30 plobsing s/your/you're/
02:32 ash_ no, i think i can figure it out
02:32 ash_ i am not going to shoot for a runcore for now
02:32 plobsing btw, NotFound++ mentioned that there are some examples of reading PBC from an HLL in the winxed tree.
02:34 ash_ okay, i'll look in the winxed tree
02:36 cotto Coke, ping
02:37 cotto Coke, could you fix the css on docs.parrot.org?  I don't have enough permission bits.
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02:41 ash_ i'll start looking into building my own tool from scratch, i am going to look at winxed first, to see what kind of reading PBC's was done with that
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02:49 mikehh opbots, names
02:50 mikehh All tests PASS (pre/post-config, make corevm/make coretest, smoke (#35011), fulltest) at r48162 - Ubuntu 10.04 i386 (g++)
02:50 mikehh t/op/exit.t - TODO passed:   6 in testf
02:50 mikehh the TODO PASS in testf only occurs on the 32 bit not on 64
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03:46 cotto pmichaud, do you have a few minutes?
03:48 pmichaud cotto: sure
03:48 pmichaud there's a break in the session now :)
03:48 cotto can you read over http://trac.parrot.org/parro​t/wiki/LoritoDesignQuestions and lmk if there's anything false?
03:49 cotto having fun at oscon?
03:49 pmichaud "Yes. All Lorito ops will take three arguments. "   .... does this preclude handling multiple arguments in calls?
03:50 pmichaud "Will Lorito have a object model built-in? ¶
03:50 pmichaud No. The object model will be implemented on top of Lorito. "
03:50 cotto I've been assuming that that'd be handled by calling conventions on top of lorito
03:50 pmichaud okay.  I'm not sure that matches allison++'s message to parrot-dev
03:50 cotto I'll check that out.
03:51 pmichaud re:  object model ... my gut feeling is that not supporting objects at the lorito level is a design mistake, but I can't quantify that.
03:51 pmichaud if only because it seems to contradict
03:51 cotto I'll take that answer out then until it's been explicitly decided
03:51 pmichaud "Will PMCs and Objects be merged? ¶
03:51 tcurtis pmichaud: concerning arguments to calls, why would Lorito's call op take the call arguments directly? Parrot currently requires manually dealing with the calling conventions if you limit yourself to actual ops instead of compiler directives. I wouldn't expect Lorito's call op to be more complex than invokecc.
03:51 pmichaud Yes. "
03:52 pmichaud tcurtis: I'm only referring to discussion I think I read on parrot-dev.
03:52 pmichaud tcurtis: I agree that it's possible to do it like PIR does now... I just seem to recall allison speculating it might be different.
03:52 cotto iirc allison verified that objects and PMCs would become the same thing
03:53 cotto I should start including citations.
03:53 pmichaud I didn't follow the parrot-dev extremely closely, as I was on vacation when it occurred.
03:53 pmichaud citations +1
03:53 cotto vacation++
03:53 cotto also, moritz++ for making irc citable
03:53 * cotto hugs ilbot2
03:53 pmichaud "Should method dispatch use strings or  symbols? ¶
03:53 pmichaud Symbols are likely but this design decision hasn't been discussed yet. "
03:54 pmichaud I think jnthn++ and chromatic++ are discussing a design where method dispatch can be cached to avoid string lookups altogether
03:55 atrodo pmichaud> If it's the conversation I saw part of, it basically means symbols
03:55 cotto atrodo, can you dig up a link?
03:56 atrodo I'm starting to like the idea that the native S registers are interning strings
03:56 cotto me too
03:56 atrodo Yea, i'll try and dig it up
03:56 cotto thanks
03:57 atrodo http://irclog.perlgeek.de/p​arrot/2010-07-13#i_2551054 is when the entire discussion started
03:58 tcurtis pmichaud: it's hard to know that your cache has the right method efficiently if you can't quickly compare the method name. Quick method name comparison with strings doesn't seem possible.
03:58 pmichaud cotto: those are the things that strike me as being potentially false.
03:58 pmichaud tcurtis: I think I just said that.  :)
03:58 cotto pmichaud, much appreciated
03:58 pmichaud cotto: there's more.
03:58 cotto wheee
03:59 pmichaud "Will Lorito have some declarative syntax at the lowest level for creating classes/types? ¶
03:59 pmichaud Will there be a declarative syntax at some level below HLLs for creating classes/types? ¶"
03:59 pmichaud right now it hurts Rakudo startup time immensenely that we have to create all of our classes at startup.
03:59 pmichaud i.e., we have to create them as part of runtime startup
03:59 pmichaud *immensely
03:59 cotto How can the answers be wrong?  there aren't any.
04:00 pmichaud I'm not saying the answers are wrong there.  I'm providing my opinions on the answers :)
04:00 cotto ok
04:00 atrodo :D
04:00 cotto less pain for rakudo is a good idea
04:00 pmichaud basically, I'm saying that we really need a good way to store/restore classes without having to build them all dynamically at startup
04:00 atrodo pmichaud> what about freeze/thaw?
04:00 pmichaud atrodo: freeze/thaw as designed now is completely unworkable.
04:01 atrodo Same reasons you mentioned at YAPC?
04:01 pmichaud yes.
04:01 pmichaud essentially, there's not a way for me to limit the scope of the freeze
04:02 pmichaud so, if I freeze an object, I end up freezing its class representation, its superclasses, all of the other objects it might happen to reference, tec.
04:02 pmichaud *etc.
04:02 cotto What would a helpful freeze/thaw interface look like?
04:02 pmichaud I don't know.
04:02 atrodo so in a perfect world, how would the class build work?
04:02 atrodo hmmm, slower than cotto
04:02 * cotto wins
04:03 pmichaud there needs to be a way to say "snapshot this state" and then later "freeze everything associated with this object since the snapshot"
04:03 cotto so we want smalltalk-like images?
04:04 pmichaud right now, iiuc, freeze basically freezes everything that happened since Parrot started running.
04:04 pmichaud essentially, I think "freeze/thaw" have to start acting more like dynamic linkers
04:04 pmichaud but here I'm speculating wildly
04:05 pmichaud and it's possible that lorito v1 won't address that issue.  that's fine.
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04:05 cotto now's the time for wild speculation
04:05 atrodo Understand, but if we can get a good idea in place now, it makes it a lot easier when we do implement
04:05 pmichaud it's just something to keep in mind -- we don't have a good way to quickly freeze/thaw data structures containing non-core-PMCs
04:05 tcurtis pmichaud: feel free to add your idea of what the answer to any of those questions should be to that page.
04:05 pmichaud which means that Rakudo essentially generates code to build the structures at startup
04:05 pmichaud (or when a module is loaded)
04:06 pmichaud which converts something that should be static-compile-time into dynamic-runtime
04:06 cotto tcurtis, I'm picturing that document as a place to put what's currently known about Lorito.  I'd prefer to keep discussion in other places.
04:07 cotto parrot-dev for example
04:08 atrodo pmichaud> So, if the bytecode file,  in it's data or constant table, was able to be a dynamic linker in the way of referencing other "static" pmcs in other bytecode files, would that work?
04:08 pmichaud atrodo: that seems a lot closer, yes.
04:08 cotto I'll do my best to make sure any decided-upon points don't get dropped
04:08 tcurtis cotto: alright. The "Feel free to add more or offer your opinion on a possible answer to any of them." sentence should probably be amended, then.
04:08 pmichaud one question I don't see in the lorito spec is anything dealing with exception handling and continuation handling
04:09 cotto I'll do that.
04:09 pmichaud those are incredibly core to Parrot today (and have issues) -- seems like Lorito will need to address them.
04:09 cotto yes
04:09 pmichaud iirc, one of the intents of Lorito was to reduce problems associated with inferior runloops and the like
04:09 atrodo pmichaud> How far does CPS go to solving both of those?
04:10 * atrodo being naive about this part
04:10 pmichaud atrodo: CPS doesn't do it alone.
04:11 pmichaud Parrot now has CPS, but it struggles with exceptions and call frame rollback
04:12 * cotto hopes we can get Lorito out the door before the end of the world in 2012.
04:13 atrodo pmichaud> briefly, what kind of struggles does it have now?  A problem with CPS or just it's implementation of it?
04:13 dalek rakudo: 31d41ed | pmichaud++ | src/Perl6/Grammar.pm:
04:13 dalek rakudo: Fix RT #76644, overeager parsing of "state" and "supersede" declarators.
04:13 dalek rakudo: review: http://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/3​1d41ed75ab5be49b70b59fa50cd1fb2d7a913c9
04:14 pmichaud atrodo: I'd need to revisit the state of things to know exactly where things stand now.   But there are several tickets and -dev threads that talk about the issues of exception handlers in Parrot and where things currently fall short.
04:14 atrodo So it's more on the exception handling side?
04:14 pmichaud NotFound++ did some recent work to make it a bit better, but I haven't had a chance to refactor things to try to take advantage of them yet.
04:15 pmichaud atrodo: yes.  But since exception handling is very closely related to runloop, it feels to me like Lorito needs to address that at the lowest level.
04:15 pmichaud i.e., it can't delegate that to "something on top of Lorito"
04:15 cotto It's an important question which Parrot features need direct Lorito support.
04:15 atrodo pmichaud> I would agree.
04:16 atrodo how does parrot do exceptions today?  Is it tied to the context objects?
04:17 pmichaud allison++ or NotFound++ are probably better people to ask about that.
04:17 atrodo Okay, I'll try and do research the next couple days
04:21 tcurtis cotto: on the plus side, we have a brand new wiki just for questions like that. ;)
04:21 tcurtis s/wiki/wiki page/
04:22 atrodo I've started a little lorito motto for my code.  Less magic == more magic.  More magic == magic explosions.
04:22 atrodo Still needs some work
04:23 cotto good gist though
04:23 tcurtis atrodo: why more work? You're already getting more magic explosions no matter what you do? Sounds like a great motto to me. :)
04:24 atrodo I was hoping for something more instead of explosions, but hey, maybe not
04:25 tcurtis Transitive property of equality. Then again, given that we are talking about Parrot, you can't make any guarantees about the behavior or ==; after all, it calls a vtable.
04:25 atrodo tcurtis++
04:26 tcurtis s/behavior or/behavior of/
04:27 atrodo anyways, it's late, but it's been some good insight again.  later.
04:28 cotto we'll eventually converge on something that'll make everyone hap^H^H^Hminimally irritable.
04:48 dalek tracwiki: v8 | cotto++ | LoritoDesignQuestions
04:48 dalek tracwiki: more questions, no answers
04:48 dalek tracwiki: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/wiki/Lorito​DesignQuestions?version=8&action=diff
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05:40 cotto It's nice to get to the "oh crap, there's no way we can get this all done" stage with Lorito.  I just hope it peaks soon.
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05:55 dalek tracwiki: v9 | cotto++ | LoritoDesignQuestions
05:55 dalek tracwiki: cps
05:55 dalek tracwiki: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/wiki/Lorito​DesignQuestions?version=9&action=diff
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06:07 NotFound pmichaud: using the improvements in exception handling is easy, you just need to add a finalize op in the handlers.
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06:17 cotto next question: how to implement it
06:24 dalek parrot: r48163 | Chandon++ | branches/gsoc_threads (3 files):
06:24 dalek parrot: [gsoc_threads] More green thread test.
06:24 dalek parrot: review: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/48163/
06:41 dalek parrot: r48164 | khairul++ | branches/gsoc_instrument (3 files):
06:41 dalek parrot: Implemented the NYIs in InstrumentClass.
06:41 dalek parrot: review: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/48164/
06:44 dalek rakudo: 925a9b5 | moritz++ | t/spectest.data:
06:44 dalek rakudo: S32-temporal/DateTime-strftime.t is gone, but we pass DateTime.t again
06:44 dalek rakudo: review: http://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/9​25a9b56167d22b15a4130245e5bf57a1003e61b
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06:55 cotto I think we should implement COMEFROM in Lorito.
06:56 * moritz waits for the smiley
06:56 cotto but it never comes
06:56 cotto ;)
06:56 cotto nm.  there it is
07:01 dalek tracwiki: v19 | cotto++ | LoritoRoadmap
07:01 dalek tracwiki: add control flow issues
07:01 dalek tracwiki: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/wiki/Lor​itoRoadmap?version=19&action=diff
07:03 cotto Is there standard terminology for 'leave semantics'?
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07:07 cotto I guess finalize comes pretty close
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07:11 cotto I guess leave semantics are a little easier when we control all possible control flow ops.
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07:21 NotFound cotto: the finalize op does not control flow, just signal a point for inner loop unrolling.
07:24 cotto Would it need to be an op or could it be implemented in terms of something more generic?
07:31 NotFound cotto: I don't know what can be more generic than an op in machine level.
07:33 NotFound cotto: If you mean a micro-op or whatever loritio operations gets called at some level, that entirely depends on the exception handling model and its relation with C calls.
07:36 cotto yes
07:37 NotFound I've not yet seen a exception model for lorito, so no answer right now.
07:38 cotto There's a good reason you haven't see one.
07:38 NotFound In fact I've not yet seen a clear exception model for parrot, but at least one can look at what the code does X-)
07:39 NotFound Going do daywork, SYL
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10:04 smash joined #parrot
10:04 smash hello everyone
10:14 smash Coke: ping
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10:55 bacek aloha, humans
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11:54 kthakore bacek: !!!!!
11:54 kthakore bacek: HAI!
11:54 kthakore bacek: I did work on TT 1639
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12:52 smash Coke: ping
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12:56 Coke cotto: it'll get fixed in the next release. :P
12:57 * Coke supposes we can retrofix something just this once.
12:58 smash Coke: can i do anything to update the CSS file on parrot.org ? from docs/resources/parrot.css
12:58 Coke cotto: done.
13:00 Coke smash: pong
13:00 Coke smash: done.
13:00 Coke normally, those docs are cut from the tarball.
13:00 Coke I updated the css for that release to reflect your one liner.
13:00 smash Coke: excelent, thank you
13:01 smash Coke++
13:04 dalek TT #1711 closed by smash++: unreadable footer on docs.parrot.org
13:04 dalek TT #1711: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/ticket/1711
13:13 kthakore hi Coke
13:19 Coke kthakore: no. I can't help you. =-)
13:20 Coke but keep up the good work. =-)
13:20 kthakore Coke: but but ... I just said hi
13:20 atrodo Coke, the mind reader
13:20 kthakore Coke: you guys are mean
13:20 kthakore :p
13:20 kthakore atrodo: hi atrodo
13:20 kthakore :p
13:20 Coke kthakore: it's your MO.
13:20 kthakore I know
13:20 kthakore ...
13:20 kthakore I am ashamed
13:20 Coke I saw you pounce on jnthn. =-)
13:20 kthakore Coke: hehe
13:20 Coke sokay.
13:20 atrodo Coke> that was rather funny to see
13:20 kthakore Coke: I really want that last test passing
13:21 atrodo ok(1)
13:21 kthakore Coke: hey... that is how I get stuff done
13:21 kthakore in new projects
13:21 Coke yup. excellent plan.
13:21 kthakore pounce until I can bounce on my own
13:22 kthakore hey that rhymes!
13:24 atrodo You should totally take up rapping
13:24 atrodo Or opera
13:25 kthakore maybe I can even be on Oprah
13:25 atrodo Or Dr. Phil
13:26 kthakore but he makes me want to take pills
13:27 kthakore and he is a shill
13:27 kthakore I will never trust him till
13:27 atrodo I'm pretty sure that's beside the point.  You could be on TV!
13:50 avar joined #parrot
14:02 avar Hi parrot, your code sucks. I fixed it: http://github.com/avar/parrot/​compare/configure-versiononly
14:02 avar :)
14:03 avar (reported in perl6, rakudo didn't detect pod2man without this patch)
14:08 moritz at least on some weird OS X perls
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14:09 Coke avar - are you sure the slash change is required?
14:10 avar no, but the perldoc test does it, so I assumed it was betterer
14:10 Coke I found that on windows, at least, / is fine in command paths.
14:10 Coke meh. I don't run parrot on windows, so I'll trust you! ;)
14:11 avar I think it's probably for stuff like VMS
14:11 Coke ... which we don't build on. =-)
14:11 avar but perl should handle this in general, so I don't know what the need is..
14:11 Coke but yah. Looks fine to me. someone should apply that.
14:14 particle is it needed for R*?
14:14 PerlJam does parrot have fork() and pipe() somehow?
14:19 Coke particle: seriously doubt it.
14:20 moritz PerlJam: the qx// implementation in rakudo likely uses something like pipe()
14:20 moritz but probably not quite the same
14:21 PerlJam moritz: ah, good point.  That may be enough for my purposes.
14:21 * PerlJam looks
14:25 Andy joined #parrot
14:25 PerlJam eh, maybe not
14:27 moritz somebody sent password reset requests to my google account. Weird.
14:32 kthakore moritz: ITS A TRWAP!
14:35 particle PerlJam: spawn?
14:35 purl spawn is mailto:ircdwarf@irc.dwarfy.co.il
14:40 dalek rakudo: 220b678 | (Timothy Totten)++ |  (2 files):
14:40 dalek rakudo: Removed DateTime::strftime, as it's moved to an external repo.
14:40 dalek rakudo: review: http://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/2​20b6781621b6bf3c3d2fd6070b7f74efd86c8df
14:51 tcurtis joined #parrot
14:58 Coke nqp has helped me become a better cold fusion programmer. freaky.
14:58 atrodo :huh:
14:58 theory joined #parrot
15:04 Coke chromatic++ # http://www.perl.com/
15:05 particle that one should make it into the nqp quotebook, if ever there is one.
15:06 atrodo Okay, I've thought it over, and I have to ask.  Coke> Why?
15:06 Coke there's a || between cf and java, and nqp-rx and pir.
15:14 kthakore Coke: coldfusion? people use that?
15:15 masak joined #parrot
15:15 masak what's the bit size of $I0-style registers?
15:18 kthakore hi masak
15:18 masak oh hai
15:19 kthakore moritz: I think you can do sizeof ... someplace
15:19 kthakore moritz: let me ack the source
15:20 moritz kthakore: did you meant to talk to masak? :-)
15:20 masak seems so.
15:20 kthakore moritz: oops
15:20 masak tab completion strikes again!
15:20 kthakore masak: yeah
15:20 kthakore masak: I know
15:20 kthakore masak: um it is in a test
15:21 kthakore I remember seeing it
15:21 kthakore hmm ....
15:22 Coke kthakore: apparently.
15:22 kthakore Coke: am I wrong?
15:22 kthakore masak: I think t/native_pbc/
15:22 kthakore has it
15:23 kthakore integer.t
15:23 kthakore line 167
15:23 kthakore I think
15:23 kthakore or I am crazy
15:23 kthakore it has the HEADER sizes
15:23 * masak looks
15:24 kthakore man I have to read more of the source code
15:24 masak kthakore: there are many entries below line 167.
15:24 tcurtis masak: it depends on your config, iirc.
15:25 kthakore tcurtis: yay real help
15:25 kthakore masak: I am just newbie at level -.5
15:25 tcurtis masak: parrot_config intvalsize
15:25 masak tcurtis: different config, different $I0 sizeof?
15:25 masak ok, good.
15:25 tcurtis masak: that's in bytes.
15:25 masak oh, right.
15:25 masak I meant the size in bits.
15:25 kthakore byte* 4 ?
15:26 kthakore err
15:26 kthakore byte * 8
15:26 kthakore = bits
15:28 NotFound I doubt parrot can even be built in platforms where CHAR_BIT != 8
15:28 particle byte * 2 = nybbles
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15:28 particle what's byte * 4? i wonder.
15:28 NotFound Wonderits.
15:29 * lucian laughs at nybbles
15:29 NotFound The wonderit is the minimal indivisible amount of wonder.
15:30 particle a single wonder particle.
15:32 NotFound I wonder why is still single.
15:33 kthakore particle: bits ...
15:33 bubaflub joined #parrot
15:33 kthakore particle: byte * 8  = bits
15:34 particle yes, but byte * 4?
15:34 particle i don't know if there's a word for it
15:35 particle maybe we should call it 'shave-and-a-haircut'
15:35 atrodo 2 bits
15:35 NotFound bibit
15:37 particle BORING! wikipedia says it's called a "semi-nybble"
15:38 particle shave-and-a-haircut is much more intuitive
15:38 NotFound A clear candidate for the "Worst name of the millennia" award.
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15:44 bubaflub dibit
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15:44 kthakore particle: I made a mistake? sorry?
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16:52 kthakore darbelo: Ping?
16:52 kthakore hi zenog
16:53 zenog Hi kthakore
16:53 cotto ~~
16:53 zenog Can I ask stupid questions about Perl 6 and Rakudo here?
16:54 cotto You can ask a lot of things.
16:54 tcurtis zenog: well, #perl6 on freenode would be a more suitable place for that.
16:54 cotto but #perl6 on freenode is generally a better place for perl6-related questions
16:55 zenog OK, then I'll ask there ...
16:55 dukeleto zenog: it depends what your issue is
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16:55 dukeleto zenog: many rakudo bugs are parrot bugs in disguise, we can help tell you where you should go
16:56 NotFound You can ask, but the answers can be more stupid than the question ;)
16:56 tcurtis zenog: if you have any Parrot questions, though, we're more likely to be able to help you.
16:56 dukeleto bubaflub: i lost your latest link to that diff I was going to try
16:57 bubaflub dukeleto: http://gist.github.com/486097
16:57 bubaflub dukeleto: just some minor modifications to start running Configure.pl out of directory
17:06 dalek tracwiki: v10 | cotto++ | LoritoDesignQuestions
17:06 dalek tracwiki: various fixes, including citations and feedback from pmichaud++
17:06 dalek tracwiki: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/wiki/LoritoD​esignQuestions?version=10&action=diff
17:11 zenog left #parrot
17:13 Austin joined #parrot
17:13 Austin meh
17:13 kthakore hi Austin
17:13 Austin Released parrot continues to not build.
17:13 Austin And now trunk is also broken...
17:13 Austin Hello, kthakore.
17:14 kthakore Austin: looks like you are busy .. I was gonna pounce for help'
17:14 kthakore Austin: Coke says it is my MO
17:14 Austin I'm not busy at all - no parrot.
17:14 Austin What kind of help do you need?
17:15 kthakore Austin: I am try to do TT 1639
17:15 kthakore Austin: I don't know where fixed_8 is set for a stringhandle mascerading as a filehandle
17:16 rurban joined #parrot
17:16 Austin Probably a default
17:16 kthakore Austin: but it doesn't do it when the StringBuilder is not used ..
17:17 Austin Hmm
17:17 Austin Here's a question
17:17 Austin Could you write StringHandle as a pir or nqp class that uses stringhandle?
17:17 Austin Sorry
17:17 Austin that uses stringbuilder?
17:17 kthakore I don't know
17:18 kthakore it is using STRING *
17:18 kthakore in trunk
17:18 Austin Ah
17:18 kthakore i was trying to swap for StringBuilder
17:18 Austin Okay.
17:18 Austin That probably won't work.
17:18 kthakore but as soon as I do SELF = Perl_io_open
17:18 kthakore in StringHandle.open
17:19 kthakore Austin: but then why was that ticket openned?
17:19 kthakore Austin: it is working for all 24/25 tests
17:19 Austin Heh
17:19 kthakore Austin: jsut instead of utf8 on open'd StringHandle
17:19 Austin I'll bet that Perl_io_open magically knows about strings
17:19 kthakore it has encouding fixed_8
17:19 dukeleto bubaflub: the general issue is that Parrot::Configure uses modules which use Parrot::BuildUtil, so trying to use Parrot::Configure in Parrot::BuildUtil blows up
17:19 kthakore Austin: I looked at it
17:20 bubaflub dukeleto: ok, that makes sense
17:20 bubaflub dukeleto: so how should i get some of that path information into Parrot::BuildUtil?
17:20 cotto seen allison
17:20 purl allison was last seen on #parrot 13 days, 20 hours, 20 minutes and 49 seconds ago, saying: NotFound: that removes the roadblock, so someone can work on it when inclined  [Jul  8 20:59:36 2010]
17:20 kthakore Austin: it doesn't set the encoding
17:20 Austin Okay
17:20 Austin But the encoding is set, anyway, despite the absence of an explicit setting, yet?
17:20 kthakore all it does is
17:21 Austin *yes?
17:21 kthakore Austin: no the test I am refering to sets teh enconding
17:21 Austin Okay
17:21 kthakore then opens
17:21 dukeleto bubaflub: sometimes re-ordering 'use' statements can work, but I don't think that will work here. There is a way to get around this, I am trying to remember :)
17:21 kthakore the readall
17:21 kthakore t/stringhandle.t
17:21 kthakore err
17:21 kthakore t/pmc/stringhandle.t
17:22 kthakore readall() with open and utf8
17:22 kthakore as soon as I do open
17:22 kthakore the encoding changines
17:23 kthakore but if I don't open and do readall
17:23 kthakore no change in encoding
17:24 kthakore open/no readall -> fixed_8 , open/readall -> fixed_8, no open/readall -> utf8
17:25 kthakore and if both off it is fixed_8
17:26 dukeleto bubaflub: we may have to store the data we need in a different module to break the circular dependency
17:26 Austin which test is this?
17:26 bubaflub dukeleto: yeah, or recalculate it for that module.  once i can get a Parrot::Configure object, we're all good
17:26 Austin opened stringhandle?
17:27 kthakore Austin: readall with utf8 and opened
17:27 Coke Austin: I see no tickets for "release doesn't build", nor any failures in tinder.
17:27 kthakore Austin: let me paste
17:27 Coke so... maybe it's just you? =-)
17:27 dalek winxed: r571 | NotFound++ | trunk/winxedst1.winxed:
17:27 dalek winxed: operators *= and /= in stage 1
17:27 dalek winxed: review: http://code.google.com/p/w​inxed/source/detail?r=571
17:27 Austin Coke: Of course it's just me.
17:27 Coke what's the error?
17:27 purl it has been said that the error is KABOOM!
17:28 Austin The released version gets "out of memory" errors, which also happened in 2.5 but not in .4
17:28 nopaste "kthakore" at 192.168.1.3 pasted "fail" (14 lines) at http://nopaste.snit.ch/22209
17:29 Austin The trunk version gets something else
17:29 Coke so these are a month old?!
17:29 Austin kthakore: There's a difference between the pmc and the string it returns.
17:29 Coke well, <selfish> at least it wasn't me, then </selfish>
17:29 Austin Coke: Yeah, it's nobody's fault but mine
17:30 Coke but, tickets would be nice. knowing where the build failure occurs, how much memory you have allocated, etc.
17:30 kthakore Austin: what?
17:30 Austin kthakore: you're calling readall but don't seem to be storing anything into the stringhandle first.
17:30 Coke I would do a fresh svn checkout, dump your ulimit settings, do a config and build and throw everything into a ticket.
17:30 Coke and also open a ticket for whatever you're seeing in trunk.
17:30 Austin Which probably (I can't test it) means that hte stringhandle has either an empty buffer or a null pointer, and it's returning one of those things as the string for readall.
17:30 Coke which isn't that different from the release.
17:31 Coke obviously, the release worked for me (on a machine with "only" 1g, even, linux), and I just built trunk for rakudo on darwin with no problems.
17:31 kthakore Austin: that is not my code
17:32 kthakore Austin: that is the test
17:32 kthakore Austin: t/stringhandle.t
17:32 Austin okay
17:32 kthakore err
17:32 Austin s/you/someone else/
17:32 kthakore t/pmc/stringhandle.t
17:32 kthakore Austin: how to fix it?
17:32 Austin At a guess, write something into the stringhandle before calling readall.
17:33 Austin I don't know what the spec is for the stringhandle's set-encoding operation(s).
17:33 kthakore ok ...
17:33 nopaste "Austin" at 192.168.1.3 pasted "problems in trunk" (18 lines) at http://nopaste.snit.ch/22210
17:33 Austin Coke: nopaste coming with trunk problems.
17:33 Austin ^^
17:34 Austin I can't imagine someone really needed to change the definition of CONST_STRING, but ...
17:34 cotto_work ~~
17:34 Austin Hello, cotto_work
17:38 Coke Austin: did you realclean?
17:38 Coke (did you /svn/ clean?)
17:39 Coke did you pass any options to Configure or make?
17:39 Coke (just standard boilerplate level 1 support)
17:39 Austin What's an svn-clean?
17:40 Austin For my release builds, I just svn co to a new dir.
17:40 Austin parrot-2.5.0 or parrot-2.6.0 or whatever
17:40 Austin I'm rebuilding parrot-dev after a realclean now.
17:41 Austin Here's the weirdness: the release builds are out-o-memory'ing at the second call to pmc2c.pl - fixedintegerarray. The trunk builds have no problem with that.
17:46 moritz is there a check for NaN-ness of a number in PIR?
17:47 darbelo Comparing it to itself?
17:47 bubaflub moritz: on line 54 of t/dynoplibs/trans-infnan.t
17:47 bubaflub there is some examples of tests for NaN
17:48 Austin isnan?
17:48 moritz bubaflub: that just seem to do string comparison
17:48 bubaflub moritz: ah, yeah that's true
17:50 Austin nope
17:50 Coke Austin: what is "parrot-dev" ?
17:50 moritz Austin: I tried isnan before aksing :-)
17:51 Austin Coke: trunk
17:51 theory joined #parrot
17:51 Coke I am pretty sure for nan checks in partcl I did eq $Nx, "NaN" ... checking...
17:51 Austin As of <cough> minutes ago. Maybe an hour.
17:52 nopaste "coke" at 192.168.1.3 pasted "nan check in partcl" (12 lines) at http://nopaste.snit.ch/22211
17:52 moritz so, string comparison too
17:53 Coke It may no longer be the recommended way, but it works.
17:56 Austin Hmm...I sense an IsNAN opcode ...
17:56 Austin coming soon to a parrot near you..
17:57 NotFound if $Nx != $Nx
18:00 Austin Hmm
18:00 Coke NotFound: yah, that's probably better. =-)
18:00 Austin Does same return true for nan?
18:00 Coke I am sure there is a reason I didn't use it but it works in my sample here.
18:00 particle yes
18:00 NotFound A NaN is not equal to itself.
18:00 particle NaN != NaN
18:01 Austin No, it's memory based. nm
18:02 darbelo Coke: It should work everywhere, the IEEE says so.
18:03 Coke darbelo: you assume we follow IEEE. =-)
18:04 Austin Coke++
18:04 Austin The realclean seems to have pushed back the parrot-dev failure.
18:04 particle we follow ieee 746
18:04 NotFound IEEEE: Institute of EvErywhErE
18:04 Coke and no, it breaks tcl, so I'm assuming I'm missing a conversion somewhere.
18:04 Coke Austin: always realclean. esp. if you've been gone for a while. =-)
18:05 Austin Heh
18:05 Coke note that "NaN" DOES == "NaN", which is probably tcl's problem.
18:05 Austin I don't normally use parrot-dev, so I have no habits there... :(
18:06 particle "NaN" eq "NaN"; NaN != NaN
18:06 darbelo Coke: The code assumes ieee functionality, it used to be a problem with OpenBSD, before libc got made IEEE-er.
18:06 Coke particle: yes. and my nan checker is a macro that I apparently call with either strings or nums. =-)
18:14 bubaflub joined #parrot
18:20 tcurtis moritz: ping
18:25 dalek winxed: r572 | NotFound++ | trunk/winxedst1.winxed:
18:25 dalek winxed: allow $ in identifiers in stage 1
18:25 dalek winxed: review: http://code.google.com/p/w​inxed/source/detail?r=572
18:30 darbelo ññmñnbv
18:34 Coke ¬Ö√
18:40 * Austin sings, "Carmelita, hold me tighter! I think I'm sinking down..."
18:40 * KatrinaTheLamia giggles
18:40 Austin Not a Zevon fan, Katrina?
18:40 KatrinaTheLamia Ah--Carmelita... have we had any recent bike shed colour discussions on her lately that I missed?
18:41 KatrinaTheLamia Warren Zevon? The songs I have heard, I did like.
18:41 Austin Without promising anything, bike-shed-color-wise, Carmelita is a Zevon song.
18:42 KatrinaTheLamia ah... IIRC it is also the Perl 6 mascot's name
18:42 tcurtis KatrinaTheLamia: Camelia.
18:42 purl somebody said camelia was latin
18:42 KatrinaTheLamia ah! Okay... thank you tcurtis
18:42 moritz tcurtis: pong
18:43 Austin no, camelia is a latin word meaning "badly drawn logo."
18:43 purl okay, Austin.
18:43 Austin camelia?
18:43 purl i think camelia is a latin word meaning "badly drawn logo."
18:43 KatrinaTheLamia I dunno--I like Camelia myself... but then, I have taken enough graphic design training to know two things about it:
18:43 KatrinaTheLamia 1) What the creator was trying to do.
18:44 KatrinaTheLamia 2) The fact that there really is no right way to do graphic design.
18:44 Coke no, purl, camelia is perl6's butterfly logo.
18:44 purl okay, Coke.
18:44 tcurtis moritz: The next thing I'm going to be working on for my GSoC is something like LLVM's PassManager (http://llvm.org/docs/Writing​AnLLVMPass.html#passmanager) and its various Pass classes(ModulePass/FunctionPass/LoopPass, etc.).
18:44 KatrinaTheLamia There are plenty of wrong ways... but not a single right way.
18:44 kthakore hi KatrinaTheLamia
18:44 KatrinaTheLamia hi kthakore
18:45 NotFound The Rorschach way is good
18:45 kthakore KatrinaTheLamia: what up!
18:45 kthakore KatrinaTheLamia: I have stuff to show you! http://yapgh.blogspot.com
18:45 kthakore KatrinaTheLamia: see the video
18:45 dalek winxed: r573 | NotFound++ | trunk/winxedst1.winxed:
18:45 dalek winxed: scientific notation in stage 1
18:45 * KatrinaTheLamia eeps
18:45 dalek winxed: review: http://code.google.com/p/w​inxed/source/detail?r=573
18:45 dalek winxed: r574 | NotFound++ | trunk/winxedst1.winxed:
18:45 dalek winxed: codingstd fix
18:45 dalek winxed: review: http://code.google.com/p/w​inxed/source/detail?r=574
18:45 kthakore KatrinaTheLamia: youy better eep!
18:45 kthakore KatrinaTheLamia: :p
18:46 tcurtis moritz: I'm thinking about what kinds of FooPass classes would be useful for Parrot. FunctionPass and LoopPass seem like something directly analogous would be useful in PAST.
18:46 KatrinaTheLamia kthakore: not much... got committed for two weeks in June. Had hypothermia to start of 2010. Followed by some furry based drama occurring. Now my dreams include me mentioning that 2010 is being hard on me.
18:46 moritz tcurtis: sorry, I'm kinda too distracted for deep thoughts at the moment... hope to get back to you in an hour or so
18:47 tcurtis moritz: That's fine.
18:47 KatrinaTheLamia kthakore: though, hopefully I can get some solid work on Jerl 6, Virtual Girl, Lamia and libNIMH before whatever the next catastrophy to hit occurs.
18:47 Coke KatrinaTheLamia: Ôô
18:48 KatrinaTheLamia Coke: Jerl 6 came about from joking around Timtoadie when I probably should have just kept my mouth shut
18:48 kthakore KatrinaTheLamia: that happens a lot for you doesn't it
18:48 KatrinaTheLamia Coke: do not worry, anything I figure out from Jerl 6 and Virtual Girl that is helpful to Parrot, I will try to send over to you guys
18:49 KatrinaTheLamia kthakore: well, I am kind of justifying calling myself "the Daughter of Eris"
18:49 Coke ah, i was more worried for you for the /previous send. =-)
18:49 NotFound If you can also send some Real Girls will be nice. There are too much guys here in proportion.
18:49 Coke we will gladly consume your code.
18:49 kthakore NotFound++
18:49 kthakore MOAR GURLZ
18:49 Coke yah, that's not helping, kthakore
18:49 kthakore cause then code is not a big pissing contest
18:49 KatrinaTheLamia Coke: oh--how 2010 has been hard on me... naw... it has been a cake walk in comparison to 2009
18:49 kthakore Coke: ^^
18:50 kthakore Coke: you just assumed I did it for pervie reasons
18:50 KatrinaTheLamia as technically it was still 2009 when I got hypothermia >.>
18:50 KatrinaTheLamia AND I have yet to have a single computer explode in 2010.
18:50 kthakore Coke: i want more girls in code because men write code and then argue like babies
18:50 kthakore Coke: big pissing contest
18:51 Coke kthakore: you're not from around here, are you?
18:51 KatrinaTheLamia kthakore: girls still argue in code... it is just... we get a lot more passive aggressive about it.
18:51 tcurtis kthakore: sexism--
18:51 kthakore tcurtis: what really?
18:51 kthakore tcurtis: I just had a fight about tabs v.s. spaces
18:51 kthakore Coke: no not so much... educate me
18:51 Coke I haven't really seen that in #parrot. have you?
18:52 * KatrinaTheLamia would love to point out that you can set up vim|emacs to turn tabs into spaces BTW
18:52 KatrinaTheLamia Coke: to be fair, pretty much every time I turn over to here, I just see a long list of commits that have been made, via the bot.
18:52 NotFound We don't fight about that, just commit a fix.
18:52 kthakore Coke: no I haven't but I was talking about OS in general
18:53 particle KatrinaTheLamia: and parrot's source code has editor hints to do that
18:53 KatrinaTheLamia particle: it is almost like it is something silly... or maybe just good sense... and not something to bicker about.
18:53 KatrinaTheLamia maybe one day, we shall solve the matter of vim being better than emacs as well
18:53 * KatrinaTheLamia hides from the napalm that is going to come her way
18:54 kthakore ^^^ see it is not just me how thinks fights happen
18:54 kthakore jeez
18:54 NotFound I have a clean solution: I use my own editor X-)
18:54 kthakore NotFound: hah ... that is one way out of hell
18:54 * particle points NotFound to #padre
18:54 KatrinaTheLamia NotFound: is it based on `ed` or butterflies? (just to make sure)
18:54 NotFound particle: text mode only.
18:55 KatrinaTheLamia kthakore: keep in mind, this is the Perl community--while these debates do appear... here, they tend to just go into the territory of plain silliness
18:55 Coke kthakore: I had assumed your comments were parrot specific, my bad.
18:55 NotFound Is a thing I wrote some time ago for coworkers unable to learn vi and machines barely capable of installing anything big.
18:56 kthakore tcurtis: Coke: Maybe I generalized too much
18:56 NotFound Later I added features for amusement.
18:56 KatrinaTheLamia NotFound: ah... was vim not around then?
18:56 kthakore tcurtis: Coke: But before parrot/perl I had left boost,wesnoth,python projects becuase of this silliness
18:56 * KatrinaTheLamia finds that vim tends to make vi way less of a pain for people.
18:57 kthakore tcurtis: Coke: I find the perl areas to be more diverse and it helps a lot. So I only wanted to encourage that
18:57 NotFound KatrinaTheLamia: I mean: unable to learn anything vi-alike X-)
18:57 kthakore tcurtis: now I want my karma back! :p
18:58 tcurtis kthakore: I did "sexism--" not kthakore       (you-know-what)
18:58 KatrinaTheLamia kthakore: ah... thanks for reminding me... the plan is after Jerl 6 and Virtual Girl are at a stable level, I want to work on Jython 3... and maybe a version of Jython that is not several versions behind the current Python version >.>'
18:58 kthakore KatrinaTheLamia: heh I like how you say 'after' Jerl 6
18:59 kthakore tcurtis: oops I automagically wanted to swindle you for karma
18:59 kthakore tcurtis: my bad :p
18:59 kthakore KatrinaTheLamia: if I did Jerl 6 tehre would be no after for me
18:59 kthakore KatrinaTheLamia: that is why I am afraid to get into Rakudo
18:59 kthakore KatrinaTheLamia: it might be too much fun
18:59 KatrinaTheLamia kthakore: well, after Jerl 6 is at a stable level that is. I mean, that would indicate that they have unveilled that Halo was really Duke Nukem Forever, Starcraft 2 has hit the market, and KidRadd.Org is online.
18:59 NotFound What's Jerl? Perl for JVM?
19:00 KatrinaTheLamia NotFound: yes
19:00 kthakore NotFound: I heard about it a while back
19:00 KatrinaTheLamia NotFound: Virtual Girl is also a debugger/compiler/decompiler/deadcatthingy to work with the JVM, specifically for working with Android and HTC
19:00 kthakore NotFound: I was really tempted to try .. but I wanted to pass my exams too
19:01 tcurtis KatrinaTheLamia: Starcraft 2 is going to be released 2 days before Rakudo *(i.e., the 27th of this month).
19:01 KatrinaTheLamia NotFound: the idea is Jerl 6 talks with Virtual Girl to function in any way.
19:01 NotFound KatrinaTheLamia: nice plan
19:02 KatrinaTheLamia tcurtis: so all that is left is Halo to reveal Master Chief is real Duke Nukem, and for KidRadd.Org to come out in Decembre 21, 2012.
19:03 kthakore isn't there already a Perl6 imple on JVm some place?
19:03 Coke Not that I know of. Check in #perl6 on freenode.
19:03 NotFound Someone want to write a JVM backend for winxed? ;)
19:04 KatrinaTheLamia I think it was in #perl6 that I was joking about it infront of Larry Wall, to which he said, "you know, that is a good idea"... hence why I am doing it.
19:04 kthakore Coke: ok
19:04 moritz KatrinaTheLamia: you know that Larry reads the logs here too, occasionally? :-)
19:04 kthakore *gasp*
19:05 * kthakore gets back to work
19:05 * kthakore shuffles bit here
19:05 KatrinaTheLamia moritz: yeah--which is why I really keep my jokes to a minimum here as well
19:05 * kthakore shuffles bit there
19:05 * kthakore shuffles bit here
19:05 * kthakore shuffles bit there
19:05 KatrinaTheLamia moritz: as well it means less work for me, due to less saying things that amuse Larry
19:06 tcurtis KatrinaTheLamia: weird. I usually decide to try projects like that when it seems like a bad idea. :) That's how my plans for a Perl 6 -> LLVM compiler in Perl 6 came about.
19:06 * KatrinaTheLamia should open up her editors... and work on one of her projects.
19:07 tcurtis Of course that's also why it's probably not going to support more than "my $a = 42; say 42;" in the next month.
19:07 KatrinaTheLamia tcurtis: well, I was mostly making a joke suggesting that Jerl 6 would be the biggest blasphemy out there. Perl for Java users. Larry mentioned that it would get Perl 6 into the enterprise market.
19:08 KatrinaTheLamia and... I kind of had no choice but to agree.
19:08 NotFound Next step will be Perl on Rails ;)
19:08 kthakore HAHAHA
19:08 kthakore HAhah
19:08 kthakore no
19:08 KatrinaTheLamia LOL
19:08 kthakore ...
19:08 kthakore please no
19:08 KatrinaTheLamia NotFound: we have better: Catalyst.
19:08 tcurtis I was lucky enough to only suggest it to masak.
19:09 KatrinaTheLamia From what I have read, Catalyst appears to work similar to Rails... but only because Rails really has no real documentation on it, so to speak.
19:09 kthakore "no real documentation" Is this still a problem ...
19:09 KatrinaTheLamia For a community that goes out of there way to talk about how well documented there stuff, Ruby really sucks at actually delivering on these promises.
19:10 sorear Larry doesn't just read the logs
19:10 KatrinaTheLamia kthakore: no idea--I kind of stopped checking for ruby documentation about a year ago now... I just kind of gave up on them every really properly documentating anything.
19:10 sorear he's lurking RIGHT NOW
19:10 moritz rails has these cool video tuts, which is really all that the cool kids need, no? *SCNR*Ü
19:10 NotFound BTW the train on my toy demo has no rails X-)
19:11 dalek rakudo: 6442956 | pmichaud++ | docs/announce/2010.07:
19:11 dalek rakudo: Some announcement updates for Atlanta release.
19:11 dalek rakudo: review: http://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/6​442956542337f1d2d744d4b5ba621ce73a1e5af
19:11 KatrinaTheLamia I mean, what with the large amount of "you are doing it wrong" that appears in the Python community... they at least make certain to at least do some documentation on how and why you are doing it wrong.
19:11 NotFound I fail to understand how a video is useful to learn some programming things.
19:12 NotFound Maybe I'm getting old
19:12 KatrinaTheLamia which is why I actaully kind of like PEP7 and PEP8
19:12 KatrinaTheLamia NotFound: that is okay... next thing you know, they will start using twitter and facebook to document stuff... or something silly like that.
19:13 KatrinaTheLamia wait sorear... Larry is lurking right now? He... did not just read what I just said... I mean--I really do not want to have THAT joke be said to be a good idea
19:13 NotFound A 3-D immersive playable demo-tutorial may be the Next Big Thing.
19:14 KatrinaTheLamia NotFound: ooh! And add Kinect support! Because people cannot be bothered to be interested in something without Kinect
19:14 NotFound With 3-D googles, of course.
19:14 NotFound KatrinaTheLamia: sorry, I'm a Nintendo guy.
19:14 KatrinaTheLamia I mean--books? You cannot immerse yourself into... but a demo tutorial with Kinect? You will learn everything from that!
19:15 KatrinaTheLamia NotFound: well, I kind of like what Microsoft has done in the console market. The PC market they suck. Console market they are pretty awesome in. With Nintendo being my other favourite.
19:15 * KatrinaTheLamia looks over at her Dreamcast--poor thing... she needs to make something nice for it~ so it can know it is still wuvved~
19:16 KatrinaTheLamia dammit! If Larry Wall reads that... I AM NOT PORTING PARROT OR PERL 6 TO THE DREAMCAST!
19:16 KatrinaTheLamia X3
19:16 Chandon Why would you want an approved-apps-only computer when you could have a general purpose computer?
19:16 NotFound KatrinaTheLamia: My dream is to port parrot to the NDS
19:17 KatrinaTheLamia NotFound: wait for it--the 3DS will be out soon... port parrot to that
19:17 KatrinaTheLamia Chandon: yeah... the 360 and Dreamcast kind of have that more general purpose feel. Where as Nintendo tends to still be very big on the approved-apps-only thing.
19:18 NotFound In the meantime, I've do it to the N900
19:18 KatrinaTheLamia Chandon: the 360 is not quite there for it... but the Dreamcast was build without any copy protection schemes to speak of... which kind of allowed that towork.
19:19 KatrinaTheLamia dammit! I am going to stop talking about the dreamcast and 360... I have enough on my plate, without jokes having me do more good ideas
19:19 KatrinaTheLamia X3
19:20 darbelo joined #parrot
19:20 atrodo Perl 6 on the 360.  What a brilliant idea!  It's PPC with a c compiler, right?  What could possibly go wrong?
19:21 KatrinaTheLamia atrodo: PPC yes. but typically MS has people make use of .Net and C# to make applications for it.
19:21 KatrinaTheLamia atrodo: which somebody already was working on Perl 6 for .Net/Mono =P
19:21 atrodo huh.  Thought they had left the C/C++ option for the 360
19:21 atrodo Even better!  Then we can have Perl6 on Windows!
19:22 NotFound BTW, someone knows if the opengl module can work in windows?
19:23 KatrinaTheLamia NotFound: they mostly have people use .Net for the 360 as this makes it so it is easier for them to lock down the system. However, at the same time pretty much disable any attempts to reverse engineer the 360 for purposes of Homebrew games.
19:23 KatrinaTheLamia er... atrodo*
19:23 * KatrinaTheLamia epic tab fail
19:23 NotFound japhb: ping
19:25 KatrinaTheLamia atrodo: it was a rather brilliant move on Microsoft's part. As that is why we still do not have that many ways to break into the 360 to pirate stuff or install Linux, in comparison to NDS, PSP, Wii and PS3--as Microsoft disabled it, by allowing homebrew via .Net
19:25 KatrinaTheLamia A purely psychological move on the part of Microsoft--which I am quite in awe at.
19:26 sorear KatrinaTheLamia: what's this about perl 6 on .NET?
19:27 KatrinaTheLamia sorear: oh, somebody jumped into #Jerl6 a few months ago, asking about what I was doing. They mentioned that they had done work to port Perl 6 to either Mono or .Net.
19:27 moritz KatrinaTheLamia: was that diakopter?
19:27 KatrinaTheLamia moritz: yeah... it may have been.
19:27 KatrinaTheLamia why?
19:28 moritz KatrinaTheLamia: because that's what he's been doing :-)
19:28 KatrinaTheLamia ah--okay. It is a small world for Jerl
19:28 KatrinaTheLamia Jerl in a small world...
19:28 KatrinaTheLamia I will figure out the pun
19:28 sorear I have a mostly-independant Perl6 on .NET implementation
19:29 KatrinaTheLamia sorear: perhaps open a line of communication with diakopter? I mean--just to figure out what each of your .Net implementations do best--and work with each other on those goals.
19:30 KatrinaTheLamia I mean--yes, this is a small world for Jerl, but it is certainly big enough for two .Net implementations with different enough goals.
19:30 cotto_work Mmmm.  Goats.
19:30 cotto_work nm
19:31 KatrinaTheLamia Between memory consumption, compile speed, running time, end binary size, etc.--you can have two compilers for one langauge that have different places/reasons to be used.
19:31 sorear KatrinaTheLamia: it's only mostly independant because it started as part of diakopter's work
19:31 KatrinaTheLamia ah... a fork then. Ah okay--well then, it is all the more important to maintain communications with diakopter ;p
19:32 sorear there was, however, a major miscommunication in goals
19:32 * KatrinaTheLamia should probably get to work on her goats.
19:32 sorear diakopter wanted a minimalist self-hosting runtime, I wanted to experiment with optimizing cross compilers
19:33 cotto_work diakopter's goat sounds a lot like Lorito.
19:33 KatrinaTheLamia ah--okay... that is understandable sorear
19:33 * sorear hasn't actually gotten to the "optimizing" part
19:33 KatrinaTheLamia my goat with Jerl 6 and JVM sounds like sorear's .Net goat
19:33 KatrinaTheLamia s[JVM][Virtual Girl]
19:38 atrodo NotFound> ping
19:38 NotFound atrodo: pong
19:38 kthakore hehe
19:38 kthakore atrodo: NotFound: playing ping pong?
19:38 kthakore good game isn't it?
19:39 NotFound I won
19:39 atrodo NotFound> pmichaud tells me you are one of the ones to talk to about parrot's exceptions?
19:39 atrodo Yea, my ponging average is low
19:40 NotFound atrodo: I deny everything ;)
19:41 atrodo Perfect.  How do exceptions work in parrot now?
19:41 NotFound atrodo: that's a veeeery big question.
19:42 kthakore NotFound: so by extension this should be a veeeery tiny question 'How doesn't exceptions work in parrot now?
19:42 kthakore NotFound: :p
19:42 NotFound kthakore: ah, you mean the quality of the implementation...
19:42 atrodo haha
19:43 kthakore heh
19:43 NotFound AFAIK now they can work well if you are careful.
19:43 kthakore NotFound: tat seems to be the case everywhere
19:43 atrodo NotFound> Basic overview?
19:43 kthakore parrot ... that bird seems to have a razor sharp entrails
19:44 NotFound The current problems are related to exceptions thronw from inner runloops. You need to use the finalize opcode to avoid that kind of problems.
19:45 kthakore w/e I am dying
19:45 kthakore I am goign to make one last attempt by posting on the mailing list
19:45 kthakore then I give up
19:45 kthakore *sigh* ... I need to free up tuits for SDL::Manual
19:45 NotFound In the exception handling code, after deciding that you are not going to resume, use finalize an it does unroll any possible inner runloop left.
19:45 atrodo NotFound> inner runloops?
19:47 NotFound atrodo: pir calling C calling pir....
19:47 NotFound For example, a vtable override is run in a inner runloop.
19:47 kthakore NotFound: that seems .... weird?
19:48 NotFound kthakore: welcome to hell.
19:49 atrodo NotFound> So, I'm a parrot program, happily running my parrot code, I call a vtable on a PMC that is actually C code.  That code then dispatches some PIR code that raises an exception and all hell breaks loose?
19:50 cotto_work inner runloops happen fairly often.
19:50 NotFound If you use finalize in the handler, problem solved... known problems, at least.
19:50 atrodo But it's that C layer that will cause the problem, right?
19:50 cotto_work NotFound: the primary question is about how Lorito needs to support exceptions.
19:50 Chandon Is there some special reason why inner runloops get used rather than saving a continuation and just using the existing runloop with that as the return continuation for the inner code?
19:51 cotto_work i.e. what primitives can it provide that we can use to build something sane
19:51 NotFound Chandon: the reason is that C don't have continuations.
19:51 atrodo Chandon> I would venture that the C stack is the issue
19:51 kthakore NotFound: thank you .. it is warm in here
19:52 kthakore NotFound: can I ask rather bluntly ... How is adding more features before cleaning stuff up going to help you guys?
19:53 kthakore I mean ... everthing I ask is like .. 'This depreceated" ... ugh so why wasn' it changed when it was depreceated?
19:53 kthakore NotFound: I am not trying to complain ... but it seem like a lot of engineers tryin to fix the problem different ways ...
19:53 kthakore or I am just cranky and tired
19:53 kthakore because of this one test
19:54 NotFound kthakore: Is more like too much problems and too few people.
19:54 kthakore NotFound: so ... can you guys not do focused work?
19:54 kthakore NotFound: it seems chaotic to me
19:54 NotFound But yes, I think that sometimes the problem is too much engineering.
19:54 kthakore the svn log looks all over the place
19:55 kthakore how about freeze out 9/10 areaas
19:55 kthakore work on 1 thing
19:55 kthakore all of you guys
19:55 kthakore and then move on?
19:55 cotto_work kthakore: how do you enforce that?
19:55 tcurtis kthakore: Part of the problem with that is that not all of Parrot's contributors are capable of hacking on every part of it.
19:55 atrodo NotFound> my lorito motto: Less magic == more magic.  More magic == magic explosions.
19:55 cotto_work what if the target area is something I don't feel comfortable hacking on?
19:55 kthakore cotto_work: Tell PEOPLE not to touch other stuff
19:56 kthakore cotto_work: I also yell at them ... it seems to work
19:56 cotto_work So say "We don't want your contribution this week."
19:56 kthakore tcurtis: yeah ... I am seeing that
19:56 kthakore cotto_work: yes! just until something stable is made ...
19:56 atrodo kthakore> that works a lot better when they're not volunteer's.  It's quite a low bar for them to just leave
19:57 kthakore atrodo: that is cause you guys are afriad they will
19:57 kthakore atrodo: I bet if the foundation is more stable moer people (like me)
19:57 kthakore will jump on
19:57 kthakore because it has some where to grow from
19:57 kthakore like a vector rather then a virus
19:58 kthakore atrodo: you underestimate how much fun hacking parrot is
19:58 NotFound kthakore: I used to think like that. Until I realized that the better way to have a more stable parrot was to start working on it.
19:58 atrodo NotFound++
19:58 kthakore NotFound: hey, I am still running gdb on that shit right now
19:58 kthakore NotFound: and getting no where
19:59 kthakore NotFound: I haven't stopped hacking
19:59 cotto_work kthakore: it sounds like what you're saying is that we should make parrot more stable by not fixing most parts of it except during the right time period.
19:59 kthakore cotto_work: yes
19:59 kthakore find the most crufty party
19:59 cotto_work That's how it works when you're getting into a project.
19:59 NotFound And parrot *is* a lot more stable since then.
19:59 kthakore fix that and spiral outwards
20:00 atrodo what would actually happen is people that arn't interested in that crufty part would just not hack while that was being worked on
20:00 kthakore atrodo: but someone has to fix that
20:00 kthakore I mean ... how .. will ...
20:00 kthakore bah I don't know
20:01 * kthakore goes back to hacking StringHandle ...
20:01 cotto_work kthakore: we have ways of dealing with breaking changes that affect other subsystems.
20:02 cotto_work branches aren't great, but they're good enough
20:02 kthakore cotto_work: ... ok if you say so
20:02 tcurtis kthakore: Consider Lorito: that's probably the biggest most important overarching goal right now. There's a great number of different aspects of achieving that that can all be worked on simultaneously. E.g., someone can be working on designing a better object model; someone can be working on replacing IMCC; someone can be working on getting more stuff like ops2c/pmc2c on top of Parrot to make it easier for us to change and to work with the rest of Parrot be
20:02 NotFound kthakore: I've already said you a simple step to improve StringHandle
20:02 kthakore NotFound: I did it
20:02 kthakore NotFound: go so see my TT 1639
20:02 kthakore NotFound: one last test to pass
20:02 tcurtis Someone can be prototyping it and and exploring what ops we need at the lowest level.
20:02 kthakore fixed_8
20:03 kthakore NotFound: the other areas StringHandle internals are messed with are already moved
20:03 kthakore NotFound: It works now
20:03 kthakore NotFound: except some POS is seting the encoding to fixed_8
20:03 NotFound kthakore: where? On your local copy?
20:04 kthakore NotFound: ok this is the test for 'readall() utf8 encoding on open stringhandle'
20:04 kthakore NotFound: after opening and readall instead of utf8 the encoding is magically fixed_8
20:04 kthakore NotFound: this happens in open() method of stringhandle when it call Perl_io_open and sets Self
20:04 kthakore SELF
20:04 kthakore ...
20:05 kthakore but I don't see a fixed_8 any wahere
20:05 avar left #parrot
20:05 NotFound kthakore: my point was that that simple step can be a patch in its own, and be quickly commited.
20:06 kthakore NotFound: ah ... that would be more logical
20:06 * kthakore cries
20:06 kthakore ok
20:06 kthakore :D
20:06 kthakore new PLAN!
20:06 * kthakore hugs Coke to get high
20:06 kthakore :D
20:06 kthakore NotFound: I will be back
20:06 kthakore NotFound: with incremental patches
20:07 kthakore :D
20:07 NotFound kthakore: good
20:07 theory joined #parrot
20:09 kthakore but first a break to stop eyes from bleeding
20:09 atrodo NotFound> back to the exceptions thing, how does parrot exceptions work with cps?
20:11 NotFound atrodo: I don't have answers for generic and architectural questions, please come down to earth ;)
20:12 KatrinaTheLamia and... back... Vixita here died
20:12 atrodo earth?  Aw man, I hate that place
20:13 kthakore atrodo: heh
20:13 NotFound atrodo: then try fly.winxed ;)
20:14 * KatrinaTheLamia wonders if whiteguy.prettyfly will ever appear
20:14 KatrinaTheLamia X3
20:14 japhb NotFound, pong
20:14 atrodo It's now on "the list"
20:14 NotFound japhb: the opengl module can worh in windows?
20:14 NotFound work
20:16 japhb NotFound, I believe it worked at one point.  I don't know if anyone has tested it recently.
20:16 NotFound More specifically, in parrot built with Strawberry perl
20:17 japhb Now that, I dunno.  As long as the OpenGL headers are in a known location, that directory can be added to the list in config/gen/opengl.pm and someone can just try it.
20:20 * KatrinaTheLamia updates the topic of #Jerl6 ... now Virtual Girl is just refered to simply as a JVM Deadcatthingy
20:20 KatrinaTheLamia So much simpler that way. Now my goats can be worked on easier
20:30 cotto_work Maybe Lorito should just have a magic_dtrt op.
20:31 moritz that could be implemented as a libjustdoit wrapper
20:31 cotto_work documentation: does what you need it to do
20:31 moritz http://lists.debian.org/debia​n-devel/2005/04/msg00004.html
20:31 kthakore moritz: also libpleasework
20:31 atrodo and it's cousin libjfdi
20:32 kthakore atrodo++
20:32 dalek rakudo: 56b25a2 | moritz++ | tools/contributors.pl:
20:32 dalek rakudo: [tools/contributors.pl] avoid Mojibake
20:32 dalek rakudo: review: http://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/5​6b25a2bc6ee2876f9464f9c96badd7160da4195
20:32 dalek rakudo: 9c90c2f | moritz++ | docs/announce/2010.07:
20:32 dalek rakudo: [docs] update contributor list in release announcement
20:32 dalek rakudo: review: http://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/9​c90c2f703e8c818fd7ada9a00d74446665a5f7e
20:37 theory joined #parrot
20:59 Coke cotto_work: we did at one point have DWIM opcode.
20:59 Coke *a
21:00 cotto_work I'd wager that it didn't. ;)
21:01 tcurtis cotto_work: hcf didn't actually catch your computer on fire, did it?
21:01 * tcurtis hopes not.
21:01 cotto_work why do you think it was removed?
21:01 Coke tcurtis: it did its best to generate a segfault.
21:02 dalek rakudo: 08809ca | (Solomon Foster)++ | src/core/Int.pm:
21:02 dalek rakudo: Add the notdef check to Int.sign.
21:02 dalek rakudo: review: http://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/0​8809ca026aa149d85d92b9699ace86a9c5838e3
21:02 dalek rakudo: 9c4bd55 | (Solomon Foster)++ | src/core/Int.pm:
21:02 dalek rakudo: Add Int.sign so that we can take advantage of the fact our current Int cannot be
21:02 dalek rakudo: NaN to drastically speed up Rat construction.
21:02 dalek rakudo: review: http://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/9​c4bd5582c95d875e19725c3f6ec36de65c61cde
21:02 dalek rakudo: 12c5229 | (Solomon Foster)++ | src/core/Cool-str.pm:
21:02 dalek rakudo: Tweak Cool.words, implement Cool.lines.
21:02 dalek rakudo: review: http://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/1​2c5229616220a54059e887fa2fc63f2d9ca25b7
21:08 dalek rakudo: ca32e3a | util++ |  (2 files):
21:08 dalek rakudo: [t] Change PARROT from ENV var to calculated, to fix RT#76680
21:08 dalek rakudo: review: http://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/c​a32e3a2f99a05bea3cb7b085c1158875a0fb688
21:16 tewk_ `:q
21:17 dalek winxed: r575 | NotFound++ | trunk/winxedst1.winxed:
21:17 dalek winxed: experimental feature $include_const to import constants from parrot include
21:17 dalek winxed: files
21:17 dalek winxed: review: http://code.google.com/p/w​inxed/source/detail?r=575
21:17 dalek winxed: r576 | NotFound++ | trunk/winxedst1.winxed:
21:17 dalek winxed: forgot to delete debug helper statement
21:17 dalek winxed: review: http://code.google.com/p/w​inxed/source/detail?r=576
21:27 dalek winxed: r577 | NotFound++ | trunk/ (2 files):
21:27 dalek winxed: handle hexadecimals in $include_const
21:27 dalek winxed: review: http://code.google.com/p/w​inxed/source/detail?r=577
21:27 dalek winxed: r578 | NotFound++ | trunk/examples/fly.winxed:
21:27 dalek winxed: use $include_const in fly example, accidentally half done in last commit
21:27 dalek winxed: review: http://code.google.com/p/w​inxed/source/detail?r=578
21:44 dalek parrot: r48165 | darbelo++ | failed to fetch changeset:
21:44 dalek parrot: Sync with trunk.
21:44 dalek parrot: review: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/48165/
21:50 theory joined #parrot
22:01 cotto_work anyone have some recommended reading for the basics of advanced control flow like exceptions, continuations, coroutines and CPS?
22:03 cotto_work Also, no points for mentioning LtU unless it's a specific article. ;)
22:04 NotFound cotto_work: "Crisis on infinite earths", by DC comics X-)
22:05 cotto_work Continunations.  Not continuity.
22:06 cotto_work joined #parrot
22:08 cotto_work wb, me
22:09 * cotto_work wonders where rgrjr is when I need him
22:09 cotto_work seen rgrjr
22:09 purl rgrjr was last seen on #parrot 2 years, 84 days, 2 hours, 37 minutes and 39 seconds ago, saying: thx.  [Apr 29 19:32:08 2008]
22:10 cotto_work sad fasce
22:10 cotto_work sad face
22:10 purl
22:10 particle he's just an email away
22:10 cotto_work also true
22:10 Coke I am pretty sure I have all but one issue of CoIE.
22:10 cotto_work rgrjr?
22:10 purl i think rgrjr is bob rogers
22:10 Coke util?
22:10 purl util is third-party.
22:10 Coke no, util is bruce gray.
22:10 purl okay, Coke.
22:10 cotto_work me?
22:10 purl cotto_work is probably always at work
22:11 tcurtis ColE?
22:11 purl ColE is the vegan treesitter babe
22:13 dalek rakudo: 00848d2 | (Kodi Arfer)++ |  (3 files):
22:13 dalek rakudo: Immutability and leap-second validation for DateTimes.
22:13 dalek rakudo: Signed-off-by: Carl Masak <cmasak@gmail.com>
22:13 dalek rakudo: review: http://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/0​0848d23e642e777903f34ff5572de470b7567f9
22:30 wagle Duke Skeleton == Dukeleton == Duke Ellington
22:33 NotFound Uh... the packfile_......pasm include files aren't installed.
22:33 cotto_work sounds like a bug
22:33 purl bzzzzzzzzzzzzzz...
22:34 darbelo Ouch.
22:34 dalek parrot: r48166 | darbelo++ | branches/gsoc_nfg/t/native_pbc (7 files):
22:34 dalek parrot: Do the native pbc dance.
22:34 dalek parrot: review: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/48166/
22:36 darbelo NotFound: Wait, weren't you using the packfile PMC's already?
22:36 darbelo Or did you just hardcode the numbers
22:36 darbelo ?
22:36 dalek winxed: r579 | NotFound++ | trunk/winxedst1.winxed:
22:36 dalek winxed: yet another forgoten debug statement
22:36 dalek winxed: review: http://code.google.com/p/w​inxed/source/detail?r=579
22:36 NotFound darbelo: I just harcoded the numbers, and now was trying to use a new winxed feature to avoid the hardcoding.
22:38 NotFound The feature works, but the pasm file isn't in place.
22:41 dalek tree-optimization: e6247c2 | tcurtis++ | setup.nqp:
22:41 dalek tree-optimization: chmod u+x setup.nqp
22:41 dalek tree-optimization: review: http://github.com/ekiru/tree-optimization/com​mit/e6247c22a566599ac49771a779221bbe1461dd0f
22:42 NotFound I've decided to add that feature after geting bored of copying opengl values X-)
22:48 hercynium joined #parrot
22:51 dalek winxed: r580 | NotFound++ | trunk/examples/socket.winxed:
22:51 dalek winxed: use $include_const in example socket
22:51 dalek winxed: review: http://code.google.com/p/w​inxed/source/detail?r=580
23:08 kid51 joined #parrot
23:29 theory joined #parrot
23:30 dalek TT #509 closed by jkeenan++: tools/dev/install_files.pl  did not care about symlinks
23:30 dalek TT #509: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/ticket/509
23:30 cotto_work Coke: ping
23:44 dalek parrot: r48167 | jkeenan++ | trunk/t/native_pbc (4 files):
23:44 dalek parrot: Per advice from coke++, ran tools/dev/mk_native_pbc on Darwin/PPC.  Committing
23:44 dalek parrot: updated .pbc files.
23:44 dalek parrot: review: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/48167/
23:51 pmichaud from #perl6:
23:51 pmichaud http://gist.github.com/486811  # ouch!
23:53 dalek rakudo: 0d0fd7e | masak++ |  (4 files):
23:53 dalek rakudo: [src/glue] translated !setup_named_enum PIR->p6
23:53 dalek rakudo: This is an idempotent commit that paves the way for more correct
23:53 dalek rakudo: enum semantics.
23:53 dalek rakudo: review: http://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/0​d0fd7e5026cd75363aecd7f370c743a3e30c13b
23:53 dalek rakudo: 5fe1939 | masak++ | src/glue/enum.pm:
23:53 dalek rakudo: [src/glue/enum.pm] return the right things
23:53 dalek rakudo: enum Foo <a b c>;
23:53 dalek rakudo: Previously, requesting Foo yielded an EnumMap, whereas it now yields an
23:53 dalek rakudo: object of some kind whose .enums method returns an EnumMap. Similarly,
23:53 dalek rakudo: requesting b yielded an Int, whereas now it returns an object that responds
23:53 dalek rakudo: to a number of methods, as per S12.
23:53 dalek rakudo: review: http://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/5​fe193902ce23a683e10ebb708beaead35218d23
23:57 Psyche^ joined #parrot
23:58 cotto_work msg Coke Could you grant +rwx to the "parrot" group on for the files on docs.parrot.org so that people who aren't you can upload/fix docs?
23:58 purl Message for coke stored.

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