Camelia, the Perl 6 bug

IRC log for #parrot, 2010-08-01

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Time Nick Message
00:03 dalek parrot: r48243 | pmichaud++ | trunk/runtime/parrot/library/P6object.pir:
00:03 dalek parrot: Revert "Avoid creating a PMC here, rely on autoboxing instead."
00:03 dalek parrot: This reverts commit b102dce21f9d664c7224b984c466b0298465d4d3 (r48242).
00:04 dalek parrot: .ACCEPTS here is supposed to always return a boolean value;
00:04 dalek parrot: this causes it to return an integer instead.  Rakudo fails
00:04 dalek parrot: t/spec/S02-builtin_data_types/bool.t unless this commit is reverted.
00:04 dalek parrot: review: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/48243/
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00:33 whiteknight where is the source for P6metaclass?
00:34 whiteknight nevermind, I think I found it in P6object.pir
00:34 jnthn whiteknight: Yeah, ti's in there.
00:35 jnthn whiteknight: Looking for anything in particular?
00:35 whiteknight jnthn: I'm getting a very vague error "Parent isn't a class" in P6metaclass.add_parent, but it doesn't give me any information about what Parent is, or which class it is trying to modify so I can track down where the error is happening
00:36 whiteknight so I might beef up that error message a bit
00:36 jnthn whiteknight: I think that may be thrown from Class.pmc, but my memory of that lot is a tad hazy.
00:36 dalek blizkost: f978c3b | (Tadeusz Sośnierz)++ | build/Makefile.in:
00:36 dalek blizkost: Added Q&D DESTDIR support
00:36 dalek blizkost: review: http://github.com/jnthn/blizkost/commit/​f978c3b27a62234d5cb773a9468884cfda195094
00:36 chromatic Class.pmc sounds like the culprit.
00:36 whiteknight yeah, that's what it's looking like from here
00:37 jnthn Kill it with fire!
00:37 jnthn Oh, wait...
00:37 whiteknight okay, that's better. I'm much more comfortable messing with the C code than the P6metaclass code
01:13 whiteknight Okay, this is odd. NQP is attempting to add Null as a Parent of one of my classes which doesn't have any parent types specified
01:13 whiteknight so that makes me happy
01:15 whiteknight my definition for it is a vanilla "class Program;" and I get that error
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01:46 whiteknight in P6, what's the syntax for accessing a field?
01:47 whiteknight if my class "has $!foo", do I access it as "self.$!foo"?
01:47 whiteknight or "$!self.foo" in a more PHP style?
01:47 whiteknight ...or something else entirely?
01:48 sorear you access it simply as $!foo
01:48 whiteknight okay. How do I do it for something that isn't self?
02:07 sorear I don't beleive you can.
02:07 sorear Best to ask in #perl6 for that
02:12 whiteknight okay, I'll do it tomorrow. Thanks sorear++
02:12 GeJ whiteknight: I believe the ! twigil is to mark the attribute private.
02:12 GeJ dammit!
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02:12 GeJ clock ?
02:12 purl GeJ: LAX: Sat 7:12pm PDT / CHI: Sat 9:12pm CDT / NYC: Sat 10:12pm EDT / LON: Sun 3:12am BST / BER: Sun 4:12am CEST / IND: Sun 7:42am IST / TOK: Sun 11:12am JST / SYD: Sun 12:12pm EST /
02:16 dalek kakapo: 9ab2c72 | whiteknight++ | s (7 files):
02:17 dalek kakapo: a few fixes and changes. I think if I refocus my efforts on making the method injection work, I can get much of this code working again
02:17 dalek kakapo: review: http://gitorious.org/kakapo/kakapo/commit​/9ab2c7216192bd9dde9f790312592f55ddc80854
02:17 dalek kakapo: ac16da8 | whiteknight++ | src/ (2 files):
02:17 dalek kakapo: some fixes to the build
02:17 dalek kakapo: review: http://gitorious.org/kakapo/kakapo/commit​/ac16da80a3997a379e76e128099c3a2acb5c03c4
02:17 dalek kakapo: a140f5d | whiteknight++ | src/ (3 files):
02:17 dalek kakapo: fix a few more things. Runtime failure with null pmc in invoke() during the common-methods stuff
02:17 dalek kakapo: review: http://gitorious.org/kakapo/kakapo/commit​/a140f5dd73e9b6d7fbead865795cc24df52cbfbc
02:17 dalek kakapo: 1ff6cd4 | whiteknight++ | src/Pmc/common-methods.nqp:
02:17 dalek kakapo: I think I've fixed the method injection mechanism for the Common methods.
02:17 dalek kakapo: review: http://gitorious.org/kakapo/kakapo/commit​/1ff6cd4a2214805f452448647673c538d0676a79
02:17 dalek kakapo: 16992dd | whiteknight++ | src/ (18 files):
02:17 dalek kakapo: slightly more progress
02:17 dalek kakapo: review: http://gitorious.org/kakapo/kakapo/commit​/16992dd2fbd77498bbbf93f7addc907cad2f6682
02:17 dalek kakapo: 4f6d3c4 | whiteknight++ |  (13 files):
02:17 dalek kakapo: some more progress. All the initialization routines run and I can get some of the test programs (notably t/Program.nqp) to start, but things go badly inside UnitTest::Loader, which I haven't tracked down yet
02:17 dalek kakapo: review: http://gitorious.org/kakapo/kakapo/commit​/4f6d3c497b129713e33841efed0021090aefc89a
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06:27 dalek TT #1723 created by pmichaud++: [bug] linked lists result in segfaults
06:27 dalek TT #1723: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/ticket/1723
06:31 chromatic Guess: recursive GC blows the stack.
06:32 sorear You're only now figuring this out?
06:37 chromatic If you have an algorithm to diagnose tickets before someone files them, I'm listening!
06:38 sorear Well, people have complained about the issue before the ticket was filed
06:38 sorear Most recently http://irclog.perlgeek.de/​perl6/2010-07-29#i_2630063
06:39 pmichaud I think it's fair to say that some of us do not read every line of every channel.
06:40 dalek parrot: r48244 | pmichaud++ | trunk/t/library/p6object.t:
06:40 dalek parrot: [p6object]: Add tests that .ACCEPTS return a boolean result.
06:40 dalek parrot: review: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/48244/
06:40 dalek parrot: r48245 | pmichaud++ | trunk/runtime/parrot/library/P6object.pir:
06:40 dalek parrot: [p6object]:  Use pre-allocated true/false Boolean values for .ACCEPTS results; this should get a comparable speedup to r48242 (avoiding creating a new PMC) while preserving bool semantics.
06:40 dalek parrot: review: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/48245/
06:41 chromatic pmichaud, we're probably going to have to stall that ticket until we can land a GC which doesn't recurse in C.
06:41 pmichaud chromatic: fair enough.   I figured it was worth filing the ticket so the parrot folks knew about the issue (and it could be prioritized appropriately)
06:42 pmichaud also to provide a baseline test case
06:42 chromatic Definitely a good test case.
06:44 pmichaud seems like it wouldn't be too hard to write a non-recursive version, though.
06:44 pmichaud (might need a very large block of memory to store some PMC addresses; otoh, the maximum size of the block is likely knowable also)
06:45 chromatic Sweep-free can be non-recursive.
06:45 pmichaud oh, I get it.  the recursion is in the mark phase.
06:45 chromatic I *think* bacek said the modified GC we didn't land for 2.6 was or could easily be non-recursive.
06:48 chromatic I could take the GC book upstairs to read before I sleep... but I won't.  I commented on the ticket instead.
06:54 pmichaud works for me
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08:26 cxreg is lorito still entirely theoretical?
09:00 sorear lorito is still entirely nebulous
09:09 cxreg seems like a good idea, but smells like the deep end of the pool :)
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09:16 cotto cxreg, it's in the early planning and prototyping stage
09:16 cxreg i was reading the wiki pages, wasnt sure if anything was implemented yet
09:17 cotto a couple experimental prototypes exist but neither is far along enough to be called anything like "official"
09:17 cotto lorito?
09:17 purl well, lorito is "little parrot" in spanish or http://xkcd.org/707/ or http://github.com/atrodo/lorito or http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/wiki/Lorito or http://github.com/ekiru/yalp-asm
09:17 cxreg github? o_O  do i smell a parrot git migration?
09:19 cotto It's in the works, but it's only a coincidence that the Lorito prototypes live there
09:19 cxreg fair enough
09:19 cxreg .oO(I wonder how that GSoC git-svn improvement dealy is going?)
09:19 cotto I'm glad to say that a git migration is pretty certain at this point.
09:19 cotto the schedule isn't
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09:20 sorear atrodo and tcurtis are both git fans
09:20 cxreg it's quite the popular thing to do these days, fedora just did it and postgres is about to
09:20 sorear so it's no wonder that their semi-private not-branch parrot stuff is hosted on git
09:20 cxreg right
09:20 sorear mono did it last week
09:21 sorear that git clone pulled down 200MB of packfiles, quite some migration...
09:21 cxreg heh
09:30 dalek tracwiki: v16 | cotto++ | LoritoDesignQuestions
09:30 dalek tracwiki: minor fixes
09:30 dalek tracwiki: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/wiki/LoritoD​esignQuestions?version=16&action=diff
09:32 cxreg (trac's highlighting)++
09:35 cotto it's handy for changes like that
09:47 dalek tracwiki: v1 | cotto++ | NewObjectModel
09:47 dalek tracwiki: excerpts from #parrot
09:47 dalek tracwiki: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/wiki/New​ObjectModel?version=1&action=diff
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11:23 ocharles Hi, from what I can see Rakudo* doesn't have a "getprotobyname" sub, and I want to add that - so I think I need to implement getprotobyname in Parrot first - does that sound right?
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11:34 azawawi hi
11:34 purl que tal, azawawi.
11:34 azawawi any idea how to debug a silently failed loadlib opcode?
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12:08 rurban I just released parrot-2.0.6  for cygwin (waited to test rakudo-star)
12:18 ocharles Hrm, so I'm hacking on this getprotobyname thing. getprotobyname returns a struct - so I guess I need a pmc to represent the struct. Unlike sockaddr_in (which I'm basing this on), calling getprotobyname creates the structure, so does this mean by init() method doesn't need to do anything really?
12:20 ocharles My understanding atm is that I'd do *protoent = Parrot_pmc_new(...), then later call set_pointer on this protent object (how to do that is my next challenge :))
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13:06 ocharles \o/ patch done, where should I submit it?
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13:13 ocharles nvm, doc/submissions is clear - sorry
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13:20 dalek TT #1724 created by ocharles++: Add getprotobyname to Socket PMCs
13:20 dalek TT #1724: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/ticket/1724
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14:08 mikehh All tests PASS (pre/post-config, make corevm/make coretest, smoke (#35206), fulltest) at r48245 - Ubuntu 10.04 i386 (g++)
14:08 mikehh t/op/exit.t - TODO passed:   6 in testf
14:18 mikehh why the exit op should exhibit different behaviour with (pasm) to in the fast core on i386 platform is a mystery to me, (it does not on amd64 platform)
14:20 mikehh s/to in/with/
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14:27 ambs TPF Grant Proposals are there waiting for your comments: http://news.perlfoundation.org/2010/0​8/2010q3-grant-proposal-call-for.html
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14:34 ocharles How do I get my dynoplib into parrot? I've added it to dynoplib/Rules.in, reconfigured and everything, but it still doesn't get into my builds...
14:37 ocharles aha, it has to go in src/dynoplib/Defines.in too
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15:12 mikehh kid51: ping
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15:42 kid51 msg bacek You should probably comment on http://news.perlfoundation.org/2010/0​8/2010q3-grant-proposal-perl-6-b.html
15:42 purl Message for bacek stored.
15:42 kid51 mikehh pong
15:48 mikehh kid51: regarding missing pod - I ran make headerizer yesterday and it reports quite a few functions missing pod (not tested in codetest?)
15:52 mikehh thought it might solve a problem with the g++ build (didn't it was something else) but I did notice that it reported a lot of missing pod
15:54 mikehh in things like bigint etc IIRC
15:56 kid51 mikehh:  Have to be afk for a while.  Can you send email? Or post to list? Thanks.
15:57 mikehh kid51: 'k - have to re-boot as well - brb
15:57 pmichaud part of me would be very disappointed to see tpf fund that grant.
15:58 pmichaud it would mean the translator is paid more than the original book authors.
16:18 kid51 pmichaud:  That's certainly a valid point.  I think the question for this grant -- and, really, for all TPF grants -- is:  Would it work as seed money for accomplishing some larger Perl objective?
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16:39 tcurtis Good morning, #parrot.
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16:56 tcurtis Hmm... why don't the GC benchmarks in examples/benchmarks work in gc_massacre branch? All the data except for time is 0...
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18:00 dalek TT #1725 created by jkeenan++: tools/build/headerizer.pl:  documentation is confusing
18:00 dalek TT #1725: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/ticket/1725
18:06 mikehh kid51: I have been quite confused by make headerizer oftem
18:07 mikehh often
18:07 kid51 Yeah, when I called perldoc I thought I was seeing double
18:08 kid51 Let me ask a related question
18:08 kid51 ... which is probably a perl 5 misunderstanding on my part ...
18:09 ambs is there any place where we can send suggestiong for the perl6-book? (like, something that is not easy to understand as it wasn't explained before)
18:09 kid51 When I call:  find . -type f -name '*.o' | cat | perl tools/build/headerizer.pl
18:09 kid51 ... why do I get:  No files specified. at tools/build/headerizer.pl line 314.  ??
18:09 kid51 Have I not specified the files to use?
18:10 kid51 ambs:  I think that would be the Rakudo folks' call (even if they're many of the same people as Parrot folks)
18:11 kid51 You could ask in #perl6 on freenode.  Probabaly either to rakudobug@perl.org or to perl6-compilers list.
18:11 kid51 my guesses
18:12 mikehh kid51:  you either need to run make hgeaderizer (which specifies the files) or give a list of files to headerizer.pl
18:12 ambs hmms, freenode? why not irc.perl :-| oh dear
18:12 mikehh headerizer
18:12 purl i guess headerizer is a big jerk. If I format function headers wrong it just ignores them and doesn't even tell me it's doing so.
18:12 * kid51 has only begun to hang out on freenode #perl6 since Rakudo* came out, so is not very familiar with Rakudo SOPs
18:13 mikehh kid51: running make headerizer gives a whold bunch of files missing POD, mostly .pmc files, one .y and 3 .c from compilers/pirc/src
18:13 kid51 mikehh:  Well, then that's another point that needs clarifying in the headerizer.pl docs.
18:14 kid51 'make headerizer' does not appear in headerizer.pl's docs
18:14 mikehh kid51: just a make target to run headerizer.pl :-}
18:15 mikehh kid51: it needs to be run when there are api type changes - it generates .h files from the .c and .pmc
18:16 kid51 mikehh: t/codingstd/c_function_docs.t as yet only measures .c and .h files for POD.
18:16 kid51 An inline comment explicitly disavows .ops and .pmc "for now"
18:16 mikehh kid51: yes - we need to add to the test or have another test for .pmc files
18:17 mikehh kid51: and probably the ops as well (those definately would need documentation)
18:18 kid51 So, IIUYC, we need both documentation in these .pmc files, but we also need a test for the presence of such documentation -- correct?
18:19 mikehh kid51: I think so yes, I was quite shocked looking at the output of make headerizer and seeing missing POD :-}
18:20 * kid51 runs 'make headerizer' for the first time ever
18:20 mikehh kid51: it's mostl;y.pmc files
18:20 mikehh mostly
18:21 kid51 hmm, I see what you mean
18:21 mikehh kid51: and from what I checked it is valid
18:21 * kid51 pauses to commit on a different issue
18:22 mikehh kid51: I do do a svn diff to make sure it hasn't changed anything :-}
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18:26 dalek parrot: r48246 | jkeenan++ | trunk (3 files):
18:26 dalek parrot: Make sure tools/dev/pprof2cg.pl gets installed -- but not as an executable.
18:26 dalek parrot: review: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/48246/
18:29 kid51 okay, that's done
18:30 kid51 mikehh:  Can you open a TT for this?  Or maybe two:  one to write the POD; one to extend c_function_docs.t to cover these files?
18:31 mikehh kid51: 'k will do (one to start with anyway)
18:32 kid51 Thanks. afk
19:07 dalek TT #1726 created by mikehh++: Missing POD in .pmc files (and a couple of others)
19:07 dalek TT #1726: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/ticket/1726
19:18 kid51 mikehh:  What is a '.y' file supposed to be?
19:18 Austin yacc grammar
19:18 Austin (or bison)
19:19 Austin Probably looks like C, with some weird crap at the top and a bunch of percent signs
19:21 kid51 So it appears that headerizer.pl has some way of identifying whether functions in .pmc files have POD or not.
19:23 Austin Sure. All the checks for correctly formatted comments rely on it.
19:23 Austin whiteknight: ping
19:25 Austin See $_PARROT/lib/Parrot/Docs/File.pm
19:25 Austin Sorry
19:25 Austin kid51: See $_PARROT/lib/Parrot/Docs/File.pm
19:26 kid51 Thanks.
19:26 Austin There's a sub called "check_pod"
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19:45 mikehh All tests PASS (pre/post-config, make corevm/make coretest, smoke (#35212), fulltest) at r48246 - Ubuntu 10.04 amd64 (g++ with --optimize)
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23:32 cxreg heh
23:32 cxreg parrot_split_path_ext appears to be "stemming" libgtk-x11-2.0 and then failing to load it
23:35 whiteknight Austin: pong
23:35 Austin Whiteknight!!
23:35 purl whiteknight is mailto:wknight8111@gmail.com or the grand master funk or http://wknight8111.blogspot.com/
23:35 whiteknight Austin!
23:35 Austin purl, i hayte you
23:35 purl Austin: i'm not following you...
23:35 Austin purl, i hate you
23:35 purl Austin: huh?
23:35 Austin Bummer
23:35 Austin Dude, what have you done to Kakapo?
23:36 whiteknight ...broke it?
23:36 * Austin shrugs.
23:36 Austin I'm asking - that wasn't a rhetorical device.
23:36 whiteknight everything I've been doing was on my github  branch though
23:36 whiteknight oh, so this isn't an accusatory "wtf were you thinking?" kind of thing?
23:37 Austin Have you been following the design stuff for Lorito?
23:37 whiteknight yeah, as well as I am able
23:37 Austin If I ever want to scream "wtf were you thinking" it won't be at you.
23:37 Austin :)
23:38 Austin Anyway, you keep making noises like you're not having *any* of the problems I'm having...
23:38 whiteknight and you keep making noises like you're having all sorts of problems I'm not having
23:39 Austin I guess
23:39 whiteknight what problems are you having?
23:40 Austin All the pmc method stuff doesn't work.
23:40 Austin How did you get around that?
23:41 whiteknight I have found a few problems as I've looked. The ordering of class definition code and stuff seems to be happening at a different time, screwing up all the initload stuff
23:41 whiteknight the export stuff also seems broken with namespace/methods being changed, so I've been removing it instead of trying to fix it with Tene's patch like I should
23:42 whiteknight it also seems like NQP has proper has... syntax now, instead of using the has() method
23:42 Austin Wow.
23:42 Austin The very first of those problems has been a total showstopper for me.
23:43 whiteknight I've also added "fixed" install_method() mechanisms into Array and common-methods, which seems to do proper method injection now
23:43 Austin I'm wading through the initload stuff, slowly but very slowly.
23:43 Austin Okay. I fixed that, too.
23:43 whiteknight I didn't even try to fix it, mostly because I didn't really understand it and I didn't take the time to map out all the dependencies
23:43 Austin The has thing is a yes/no situation, or at least it was.
23:44 Austin There's "has foo" and "has( <foo> )" and they're subtly different.
23:44 whiteknight but, since most of the initload stuff was using export/using/has, which I was removing anyway, I just removed all the initload stuff entirely
23:44 Austin Heh.
23:44 Austin Okay.
23:44 whiteknight the has(<foo>) didn't seem to work
23:44 Austin I haven't got there yet.
23:44 whiteknight causes a runtime error for me any time I tried
23:44 Austin So I won't comment. But it probably can't work unless you get the other stuff working.
23:44 Austin (All the initload crap)
23:45 Austin The difference is important primarily in that "has()" can actually "fix" things, instead of just declaring them.
23:45 Austin That is, "has( 'foo' )" will actually go in and force an attribute named 'foo', and create accessors, and so forth.
23:46 whiteknight okay
23:46 Austin Which made it good for fixing up things that should have been done right, but weren't.
23:46 whiteknight there's a bunch I didn't understand about Kakapo, and a whole hell of a lot that I don't know about P6object/P6metaclass/etc. Anything I don't understand I've been basically ignoring or removing so I can get to problems I do understand
23:46 whiteknight not exactly the textbook way to debug a complex system, but whatever
23:47 Austin While "has foo;" is nqp syntax, and tells nqp to generate the attribute declaration and so forth. So if you're coding a new class, you use "has foo" but if you're trying to fix up something coded in pir or whatever, you may have to use "has()"
23:47 whiteknight okay. where is has() defined?
23:47 Austin I saw you asking about how to access $other.attribute last night. Did you ever get that?
23:47 whiteknight the answer I got was "might not be possible"
23:48 whiteknight which I think is plausible in a dynamic language (I can't be bothered to look through the synopses to try and find the answer myself)
23:49 Austin Well, there wasn't a syntax for it - IDK if that's still true. So you'd call "get_attribute" in pir.
23:49 whiteknight I figured. Unlike a strongly-typed language, you can't ever really know that $other is a member of the current class
23:49 Austin Or you'd use has(), and/or auto_accessors.
23:50 Austin It's not an excusable omission. Don't try to justify it. It's just not there yet.
23:50 Austin Hell, it may be there by now.
23:50 Austin $foo.att
23:50 Austin or something.
23:52 Austin Anyway, all your changes are on the 'master' branch on github, yes?
23:52 Austin fyi: has() is in src/classes/p6metaclass.nqp or p6object, can't remember which.
23:52 Austin But in classes/
23:52 whiteknight yeah, only have that one branch I think
23:53 whiteknight Austin: ah, okay. So I probably haven't fixed injecting has() into the root namespace, which is why it wasn't working like I expected
23:53 Austin I checked tene's patch, and it seems to do what he suggested it would.
23:53 whiteknight Off topic, have you ever seen the comic "Basic Instructions"? The guy in that comic reminds me of you
23:54 Austin That said, I didn't actually test if code with :nsentry on the sub methods was more or less good - I know there's a crapload of subs that should be declared 'our' but have nothing right now.
23:54 Austin Basic Instructions? Not that I recall.
23:55 whiteknight http://basicinstructions.net/ It's hit-or-miss, but the guy does remind me of you
23:55 chromatic Half Austin, half Coke.
23:56 Austin I'll be the bald guy with the goatee. Which half is Coke?
23:56 whiteknight uh, the crazy sexual-harasser?
23:57 whiteknight is Coke bald too?
23:57 whiteknight I've never met him in person
23:57 Austin I DON'T WANT TO KNOW!!!
23:58 Tene I don't actually know how to import nqp from the repo into parrot.
23:58 Tene I expect there's documentation somewhere, but I haven' tlooked.
23:58 Psyche^ joined #parrot
23:58 Austin I think you just copy <something> into the appropriate ext/ dir in parrot.
23:59 Austin But it could be all svn'ed up
23:59 jnthn make boostrap-files in nqp or some such
23:59 Austin LOL
23:59 jnthn And then copy the stage0 directory
23:59 jnthn (the pir files in it)

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