Camelia, the Perl 6 bug

IRC log for #parrot, 2010-08-07

Parrot | source cross referenced

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:08 lucian joined #parrot
00:25 LoganLK joined #parrot
00:27 cotto_work dukeleto: ping
00:29 particle osuosl will install smolder on the parrot.org vm
00:30 Paul_the_Greek If I make corevm, is it then more-or-less safe to make test_core instead of make test?
00:37 cotto_work msg dukeleto What tool do you use to migrate a svn repo to git and how could you get a map between svn revision numbers and git hashes?
00:37 purl Message for dukeleto stored.
00:40 mikehh Paul_the_Greek: the sequence is make corevm, make coretest, you can then do make or make world, make test
00:42 Paul_the_Greek Got it, thanks.
00:42 dafrito cotto_work: If you're looking to make a working copy, git svn clone -s https://svn.parrot.org/parrot (this has taken a -long- time for me, though)
00:45 cotto_work I'm not concerned with getting a working copy (though using the tarball on the wiki would be faster) as much as figuring out how to write a trac plugin that'll see r12345 and know how to map that to a link to (e.g.) a specific commit on a github repo
00:46 mikehh Paul_the_Greek: most do not bother with make corevm/make coretest, however I test that to determine coretest works with corevm as sometimes this breaks
00:47 Paul_the_Greek I'm working on memory management, so I can test it with only the core. After I think it's all set, then I can test everything.
00:47 plobsing joined #parrot
00:47 mikehh i.e. a test is written that requires some later parts of the build but runs in coretest
00:49 Paul_the_Greek Is there a preferred #if paradigm for commenting out code?
00:49 mikehh you need to do a make clean/realclean before running make corevm/make coretest
00:49 cotto_work Paul_the_Greek: are you planning on committing something that comments out a chunk of code?
00:49 Paul_the_Greek Oh, I didn't know that. What is the difference between them?
00:50 cotto_work realclean?
00:50 purl realclean is, like, sometimes needed because of parrot's bad dependency checking
00:50 mikehh Paul_the_Greek: yes #if 0, but it is not generally recommewnded
00:50 Paul_the_Greek No, I really will delete the code before proving the patch. But in the meantime, just in case ...
00:50 Paul_the_Greek #if 0 is what I used.
00:51 Paul_the_Greek clean?
00:51 purl clean is fine, just don't fucking hide every goddamn thing in sight, especially the goddamn soap.
00:51 plobsing msg purl msgs
00:51 purl Message for purl stored.
00:51 cotto_work messages?
00:51 purl To access purl's messages, msg me with the word "messages".
00:51 Paul_the_Greek msg purl messages
00:51 purl Message for purl stored.
00:51 Paul_the_Greek Okay, I'm just confusing myself.
00:52 plobsing ETOOMANYMSGS
00:52 plobsing seen chromatic?
00:52 purl chromatic was last seen on #parrot 18 hours, 24 minutes and 18 seconds ago, saying: msg plobsing Can those turn into lazy thunks?
00:53 Paul_the_Greek seen paul_the_greek
00:53 purl paul_the_greek was last seen on #parrot 0 seconds ago, saying: seen paul_the_greek
00:53 Paul_the_Greek Every group needs a secretary.
00:54 mikehh Paul_the_Greek: I always do a make realclean, configure with --test, and then the other builds and tests
00:54 plobsing msg chromatic: To know to do that (and how), you'd need to have decoded them. The real problem is with serialization/deserialization having side-effects in the first place. Serialization should be dumb (and certainly shouldn't get "smarter").
00:54 purl Message for chromatic stored.
00:54 sorear (does Paul_the_Greek have a CLA yet?)
00:54 kid51_learn_rakudo Paul_the_Greek: 'make realclean' undoes the effect of both 'perl Configure.pl' and 'make'
00:54 Paul_the_Greek Why do I want to undo the configure?
00:54 kid51_learn_rakudo Paul_the_Greek: 'make clean' only undoes the effect of 'make'; configuration is left intact, hence the Makefiles remain
00:55 kid51_learn_rakudo Paul_the_Greek:  Some time you do, some times you don't.
00:55 Paul_the_Greek Without the configure, how does it even know how to perl or compile something?
00:55 kid51 If someone has changed something in the configuration system -- which, I'm glad to say, happens rarely these days -- ...
00:56 Paul_the_Greek sorear: What is a CLA?
00:56 purl a CLA is Contributor License Agreement or http://www.perlfoundation.org/​contributor_license_agreement or http://www.perlfoundation.o​rg/attachment/legal/cla.pdf or http://www.parrot.org/foundation/legal or http://www.parrot.org/files/parrot_cla.pdf
00:56 kid51 you will need to reconfigure.
00:56 Paul_the_Greek Aha.
00:56 kid51 More frequently, someone will change config/gen/makefiles/root.in, the template for Makefiles.  Then it's also wise to reconfigure, though IIRC there is a 'make reconfigure' (YMMV)
00:56 Paul_the_Greek Ooh, a license agreement.
00:57 kid51 But let's say you're hacking away in a branch or in your own github ...
00:57 kid51 ... and all your changes are under directories like src/ ...
00:57 kid51 ... then you probably don't need to change the Makefile, but you *do* need to blow away all the files generated from the C source, including the parrot executable.
00:58 Paul_the_Greek Why wouldn't make corevm do that anyway?
00:58 dduncan joined #parrot
00:58 kid51 Examine config/gen/makefiles/root.in and the other .in templates -- or examine the Makefiles -- to learn more about different targets.
00:58 kid51 'make corevm' is a more specialized bird
00:59 Paul_the_Greek Examine a makefile? Okay, hang on, going to get a large quantity of rum ...
00:59 kid51 It refrains from linking many libraries
00:59 nopaste "plobsing" at 192.168.1.3 pasted "[PATCH] buggy lazy constant table" (4656 lines) at http://nopaste.snit.ch/22602
00:59 mikehh Paul_the_Greek: it doesn't - and if you don't run make clean there would be file left over from make/make world
00:59 mikehh files
00:59 Paul_the_Greek Okay, make clean first, always.
00:59 mikehh like .o etc
01:00 kid51 make corevm is something that of use to people hacking on the Parrot core ...
01:00 Paul_the_Greek Can I sign the CLA by just editing the pdf file and then email it?
01:00 kid51 ... and make coretest exists to test what they've been hacking on ...
01:01 Paul_the_Greek Yes, I'm working on memory management.
01:01 kid51 ... but it's not intended for use by, say, people developing HLLs on top of Parrot ...
01:01 dduncan left #parrot
01:01 kid51 ... for those people, ie. most of Parrot's *users*, 'make test' is more critical
01:02 Paul_the_Greek Yes, that makes sense.
01:02 kid51 So, unless mikehh corrects me, I would say that 'make corevm; make coretest; make clean' is a good cycle for you
01:03 plobsing msg chromatic: Lazy constant table would be an easy win if packfiles and certain freeze-thaw vtables were more well behaved in certain areas. I'm done with this direction for now (too big a project for the benefits). Here's what I have so far http://nopaste.snit.ch/22602
01:03 purl Message for chromatic stored.
01:04 mikehh I generally run make realclean, configure (with --test and some other options) then make manifesat_tests, make codetest, make corevm, make coretest
01:05 mikehh then make world, make test, (maybe make distro_tests) and the make fulltest
01:05 kid51 mikehh:  But that's when you're doing your comprehensive smoke testing.  I think that's overkill for Paul's needs
01:05 darbelo plobsing: How well-behaved and in what areas?
01:06 mikehh sure, but that's what I generally run, mind you I usually insert a make realclean, make world (logging) and make smoke, before fulltest.
01:06 kid51 Paul_the_Greek:  IIRC, you have to postal mail or fax the CLA -- but that may have changed
01:07 Paul_the_Greek Yes, the CLA pdf is not editable. I'll print and mail.
01:07 mikehh I think the email option is acceptable if you get your signature on it (the PDF that is)
01:07 kid51 mikehh:  But for his minute-to-minute development cycle, I think 'make corevm; make coretest; make clean' would be best.  Once he's ready to post a patch, then 'make test' is needed
01:08 Paul_the_Greek By the way, I have an industrial-strength color laser printer here. If anyone needs a large document printed, I can do it and ship it to you.
01:08 mikehh don't forget make codetest
01:08 plobsing darbelo: well, we re-use packfile directories (decoded from PBC) in ways we shouldn't. We depend on deserialization of a number of different types to set up our runtime environment properly (ParrotInterpreter is the worst offender)
01:11 plobsing The inner workings of some things are simply too magical
01:11 Paul_the_Greek That's when you toss it and rewrite it with your own personally acceptable magic.
01:12 * kid51 reads Parrot CLA
01:13 kid51 If you can make a PDF of the *signed* CLA, you can send PDF as email attachment.
01:13 kid51 Otherwise, fax or postal mail.
01:13 plobsing Paul_the_Greek: No! We're all out of the good magic. We've been using the bargain brand for years, and look where it got us.
01:15 Paul_the_Greek Kid51: I could do that, but I've already stamped, addressed, and filled the envelope.
01:16 Paul_the_Greek I have a little fresh magic here, and then I can fall back on conjuring.
01:17 dalek parrot: r48340 | darbelo++ | branches/unshared_buffers (20 files):
01:17 dalek parrot: Sync with trunk.
01:17 dalek parrot: review: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/48340/
01:17 Paul_the_Greek Is there a Parrot Conference?
01:18 kid51 Paul_the_Greek:  Regrettably, no.  We have Online Developer Summits 2 or 4 times a year.
01:19 Paul_the_Greek Where you all spend two days in this chatroom?
01:19 * kid51 is a big proponent of F2F hacking
01:19 kid51 No, it's a 3-hour session
01:19 kid51 There is weekly conference in #parrotsketch at 1830 UTC
01:19 kid51 correction
01:19 purl engage brain.  then fingers.
01:20 kid51 2030 UTC (4:30 pm US EDT, IIRC)
01:20 Paul_the_Greek Which day?
01:20 purl rumour has it Which day is it? I might be busy that day
01:20 kid51 All disputes are resolved by purl
01:20 kid51 Tuesday
01:20 kid51 And we release 3rd Tuesday each month
01:20 Paul_the_Greek Tuesday, 4:30 PM. Why in #parrotsketch instead of here?
01:21 kid51 Because have lots of pointless chatter in this room at *all* times ;-)
01:21 kid51 And we need a channel we can log as if we were taking minutes
01:22 kid51 In #parrotsketch, the meeting is called to order and is later adjourned
01:22 Paul_the_Greek Right, a clean channel. That makes sense.
01:22 Paul_the_Greek Let me add a sticky to my desktop ...
01:22 kid51 In #parrot, either the meeting never stops ... or the concept of order has no meaning
01:22 kid51 See the irclog thingee in the topic?
01:22 kid51 Just substitute parrotsketch for parrot and you can read dialog at recent meetings
01:23 kid51 I'm at $job at that time, so I'm almost never in parrotsketch
01:23 kid51 ... which those in the know abbreviate to 'ps'
01:23 rurban joined #parrot
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01:25 Paul_the_Greek I'm pleased to see all these wasted cycles being used by Parrot makes.
01:26 kthakore Paul_the_Greek: whut?
01:26 purl stuff.
01:27 plobsing If Parrot didn't tie up my CPU cycles, they might get wasted idling.
01:27 Paul_the_Greek A cycle unused is gone forever. Might as well use them to do Parrot makes.
01:27 Paul_the_Greek The amazing thing is that make is using all 8 processors on my machine. I'm impressed.
01:28 sorear Paul_the_Greek: incorrect.  a CPU has variable power consumption, and every cycle used directly translates into money you have to pay at the end of the month for electricity
01:28 sorear unless electricity is on a fixed monthly rate in Greece?
01:29 Paul_the_Greek Nonetheless, the unused cycle is lost forever.
01:29 Paul_the_Greek I don't mind a little higher electric bill, even here in Massachusetts.
01:30 Paul_the_Greek That saying about the unused cycle had more punch in 1967.
01:30 Paul_the_Greek So did the saying about the handy halfword of zeros.
01:31 Paul_the_Greek And the saying about weight-lifting the ROM boards of the Meta4.
01:31 mikehh Paul_the_Greek: there is a log of the IRC at http://irclog.perlgeek.de/ you can check out some of the discussions there for #parrotsketch (and others)
01:32 Paul_the_Greek Oh good, I'll read the last discussion.
01:32 darbelo We call 'em the irclogs, most of the time.
01:33 darbelo Unless infrared clogs factor into the dicussion, since it'd be ambiguous.
01:35 Paul_the_Greek Well folks, I'm off to crash. Thanks for all your help.
01:38 rurban_ joined #parrot
01:39 dafrito cotto_work: I wrote a map-git-to-svn script, found at http://pastebin.com/g7AWvrSM Here's a snippet of the map it makes: http://pastebin.com/FWj2bTdZ
01:40 dafrito I matched 43000 of the 48000 revisions. I'm looking into where the rest went ;)
01:50 cotto shiny
01:51 cotto dafrito++
01:53 cotto Once my trac test environment is alive, writing the plugin should be pretty simple.  As far as I'm concerned, getting the map is the hard part.
01:56 dafrito definitely
02:00 cotto Hey Firefox, that 140M file ending in .tbz isn't HTML.  Please don't try to render it.
02:00 dngor_ joined #parrot
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02:21 Austin I give up. What's the difference between +o and +oo and +ooo ?
02:21 Austin Is there a Pink Floyd-bot or something?
02:23 cotto This sounds like a really nerdy riddle.
02:23 dafrito An o for each person, I think
02:24 cotto dafrito, does that script expect to be run from the root of a git-svn clone of parrot, and should I expect it to not do anything for a while?
02:24 dafrito cotto yes to both
02:24 cotto ok then
02:25 sorear opbots trust dafrito
02:25 slavorgn Ok
02:25 slavorg Ok
02:26 cotto dafrito, it's always nice to see a new nick here.  What's your interest in Parrot?
02:26 dafrito \o/
02:26 sorear opbots beleive p6eval
02:26 sorear opbots believe p6eval
02:26 slavorgn Ok
02:26 slavorg Ok
02:27 dafrito I found parrot through the JVM language summit, and found it much more pleasant than the JVM
02:29 nopaste "kid51" at 192.168.1.3 pasted "nopaste is back" (1 line) at http://nopaste.snit.ch/22603
02:29 kid51 nopaste, status
02:29 kid51 purl seen nopaste?
02:29 purl nopaste was last seen on #parrot 32 seconds ago, saying: "kid51" at 192.168.1.3 pasted "nopaste is back" (1 line) at http://nopaste.snit.ch/22603
02:30 kid51 purl nopaste status?
02:30 purl kid51: bugger all, i dunno
02:30 kid51 purl status nopaste?
02:30 purl Since Thu Aug  5 20:55:17 2010, there have been 135 modifications and 136 questions.  I have been awake for 1 day, 5 hours, 34 minutes, 55 seconds this session, and currently reference 853053 factoids. Addressing is in optional mode.
02:30 kid51 purl seen dalek?
02:30 purl dalek was last seen on #parrot 1 hours, 13 minutes and 25 seconds ago, saying: parrot: review: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/48340/
02:39 khai joined #parrot
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03:01 dafrito cotto how many revisions did you match?
04:16 Andy joined #parrot
04:22 AndyA joined #parrot
04:45 plobsing seen NotFound
04:45 purl NotFound was last seen on #parrot 2 days, 18 hours, 20 minutes and 44 seconds ago, saying: Maybe we must make that parameter optional and provide a useful default.  [Aug  4 10:24:19 2010]
05:17 desertm4x joined #parrot
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07:38 cotto dafrito, none.  The script did nothing for 12 minutes and then stopped without any output.
08:11 cotto got it working
08:12 AzureStone joined #parrot
08:27 cotto Hmmm.  Each svn revision seems to map to two git hashes.
08:27 sorear the tree and the commit?
08:28 cotto not sure
08:43 Austin cotto: looking at the script, it seems to be printing an attribute that is probably generated by the git-svn bridge (not a git builtin). Don't know if that helps.
08:49 AzureStone joined #parrot
08:53 cotto I'm using it on a git-svn clone
08:53 Essobi joined #parrot
08:56 Austin cotto: Sure. My point is that if you want to know what the two hashes are, you'll probably find them in the git-svn, as opposed to pure git, docs.
09:06 cotto gotcha
09:06 cotto You're sure up late.
09:07 Austin Heh. Not any more. It's early now.
09:28 desertm4x joined #parrot
09:36 dalek rakudo: 6ebba85 | pmichaud++ | src/Perl6/ (2 files):
09:36 dalek rakudo: Fix handling of $_ scoping in routines (broke due to $*IN_DECL change in
09:36 dalek rakudo: grammar).
09:36 dalek rakudo: review: http://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/6​ebba85137cbda35840bb8c3ae21867acb5d7d67
09:36 ttbot joined #parrot
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10:15 fperrad msg muixirt thanks for the report (see TT#1733)
10:15 purl Message for muixirt stored.
10:20 whiteknight joined #parrot
10:24 dmagnus_ joined #parrot
10:58 dalek parrot: r48341 | moritz++ | trunk/runtime/parrot/library/Digest/MD5.pir:
10:58 dalek parrot: add parrot .HLL to Digest/MD5.pir
10:58 dalek parrot: review: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/48341/
11:03 dmagnus__ joined #parrot
11:15 dalek rakudo: e569d66 | pmichaud++ | src/Perl6/Compiler/Signature.pm:
11:15 dalek rakudo: Remove "$_ is always first argument" from Perl6/Compiler/Signature.pm, fixing RT
11:15 dalek rakudo: #77054.
11:15 dalek rakudo: I'm not entirely certain why it was being put as the first argument in the first
11:15 dalek rakudo: place,
11:15 dalek rakudo: but all of the spectests pass without it (and we now resolve the RT ticket).
11:15 dalek rakudo: review: http://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/e​569d660013035f506131d89749da962ca46bd9c
11:32 whiteknight in NQP, how do I get a reference to the protoobject of a class?
11:33 Austin Starting from where?
11:33 whiteknight I have a Class object
11:33 Austin Okay.
11:33 whiteknight in Kakapo::UnitTest::Loader.configure_suite
11:33 Austin And you know it's a P6object, not a PMC...
11:35 Austin Have a look at Testcase.nqp // sub TEST_MAIN
11:36 Austin The first couple lines go from a namespace to the name to the protoobject
11:36 Austin You can get the namespace from the class.
11:37 Austin (If it has one.)
11:40 Austin $ckass,get_namespace()
11:40 Austin yikes
11:40 Austin $class.get_namespace()
11:44 Austin Alternatively, call $class.WHAT()  (or $object.WHAT() if you have an object).
11:49 Austin (but pmc's won't support the p6object methods, I think)
11:49 whiteknight ok
11:50 whiteknight I have t/Program.nqp running. It produces zero output, but doesn't have any errors
11:50 whiteknight the rest of the tests are not so lucky
11:50 Austin whiteknight++
12:05 muixirt joined #parrot
12:13 whiteknight it's calling Suite.run(), but there is apparently nothing in @!members
12:36 ash__ joined #parrot
12:38 kid51 joined #parrot
12:39 ash_ joined #parrot
12:50 whiteknight pir::say("add_test Members: " ~ pir::elements__IP(@!members));
12:50 whiteknight pir::push__vPP(@!members, $test);
12:50 whiteknight pir::say("add_test Members: " ~ pir::elements__IP(@!members));
12:50 whiteknight the number of elements is zero before AND after the push
12:51 whiteknight can anybody spell WTF?
12:52 Austin Try @!members.push: $test
12:53 Austin I think you're maybe getting an rvalue op, because nqp doesn't know to store the result of ::push into the attribute.
12:53 whiteknight same result
12:53 Austin Yeah
12:53 whiteknight 0 elements before and after the push
12:53 Austin That was a stupid suggestion.
12:54 Austin Compile it to pir, and nopaste it.
12:56 nopaste "Whiteknight" at 192.168.1.3 pasted "UnitTest::Suite.add_test in pir for Austin++" (39 lines) at http://nopaste.snit.ch/22611
12:57 Austin So if the attr is null, it autovivs and doesn't store.
12:57 whiteknight that sounds like a bug
12:57 Austin Sure.
12:58 Austin But attr handling in nqp is a mess,
12:58 Austin ...
12:58 contingencyplan joined #parrot
12:59 Austin @!members := @!members
12:59 Austin Then do the rest
13:02 whiteknight Austin++ that did it (and exposed new errors further down the rabbit hole)
13:02 Austin woo-hoo! new errors
13:40 whiteknight let me check in my progress so you can take a look at it
13:42 whiteknight http://github.com/Whiteknight/kakapo/commi​t/7a6889508052c68377866220adc12d9979b1b07b
13:44 mak joined #parrot
13:45 mak Hi
13:46 mak I asked this question on #perl6
13:46 mak After doing this http://gist.github.com/512792
13:46 mak rakudo refuses to build
13:46 whiteknight it built before?
13:47 mak yes, actually im trying to trace how rakudo executes things... by using print statements
13:47 mak http://gist.github.com/512785 this is the error
13:47 kthakore whiteknight: hi
13:47 purl hi, kthakore.
13:48 mak was unable to get an answer on #perl6
13:48 whiteknight hello kthakore
13:48 mak is say a valid pir statement?
13:48 whiteknight mak: when rakudo does't build, what is the error messag eyou get?
13:48 kthakore whiteknight: got some releases out. Have some time to make parrotSDL work ... again
13:48 mak http://gist.github.com/512785
13:48 whiteknight mak: yes, "say" is a valid PIR opcode and you're using it correctly it seems
13:50 whiteknight mak: to satisfy curiosity, can you try changing "say" to "print"?
13:50 mak ok
13:52 nopaste "Austin" at 192.168.1.3 pasted "Using say opcode" (7 lines) at http://nopaste.snit.ch/22612
14:25 whiteknight bah, that's all I've got for today
14:26 whiteknight or, at least for the morning
14:31 Andy joined #parrot
14:36 mak joined #parrot
14:37 mak sorry i got disconnected last time due to power  cut here
14:37 mak but using print instead of say didnt help
14:41 mak is anybody there?
14:41 Austin mak: That code isn't broke, according to my parrot.
14:42 Austin (the code you nopasted)
14:42 Austin I suspect something is wrong in the surrounding text. Can you nopaste the whole file?
14:43 mak http://gist.github.com/512869
14:45 mak Removing the say or print builds rakudo perfectly
14:49 Austin mak: What happens if you load the hello world thing I nopasted above?
14:49 mak I cannot see the link
14:49 Austin http://nopaste.snit.ch/22612
14:50 Austin Sorry, I forgot you moofed
14:51 Austin This is weird, but what if you put the print/say statement above the commenb lines?
14:51 Austin *comment
14:53 mak your hello world program worked, now checking by putting the say above the comment
14:54 Austin So we know you've got built-in say or print.
14:58 mak putting the say above the comment made no difference
14:58 Austin Well, I guess that's a relief
14:58 mak error:imcc:syntax error, unexpected IDENTIFIER, expecting $end ('from')
14:58 mak thats the error
15:00 mak pir files can have blank lines??
15:00 arnsholt Sure they can
15:01 Austin What is the line number again?
15:01 mak I think Im missing something very fundamental here
15:01 Austin Yeah
15:01 Austin Wait, is there a unix/dos issue?
15:01 Austin Are you on windows?
15:01 mak like? I using ubuntu
15:02 Austin So there's not secretly a bunch of cr/lfs in the file?
15:02 mak Im using emacs
15:02 Austin Okay
15:02 Austin If you delete the print statement inside main, the problem goes away, right?
15:03 mak yes
15:04 Austin What line# is the print statement in main?
15:04 Austin 228?
15:04 purl well, 228 is 12+1
15:06 mak precise error message http://gist.github.com/512882
15:06 Austin Sure, but that's the reported error location. Where's the print statement?
15:07 Austin 'cause to me it looks like 228, or 220-230 if you've been moving the comments around
15:07 mak 1 min
15:07 mak 224
15:08 Austin What's your local language?
15:08 mak how does the line number matter
15:08 Austin Any chance of funny quotes?
15:08 mak kannada
15:08 Austin The line number matters because the error is reported 40+ lines away.
15:08 mak Im from India
15:09 Austin When you get a really far away error report, sometimes it's because you forgot to close quotes, or parens, or brackets.
15:11 Austin Hmm. Try deleting (ctrl-k) the line with the print statement. Then copy/pase the line @266 or so with "say 'Copyright perl foundation'"
15:12 mak power goes again, on ups... can't hold  on for long... will  join again in a short while
15:17 kthakore svn head is broken
15:17 kthakore mak: hi from india!
15:18 kthakore mak: kaisa hey yaar!
15:18 kthakore http://paste.scsys.co.uk/47721
15:18 kthakore Austin: ^^ svn head
15:19 Austin What rev?
15:19 kthakore 48341
15:20 darbelo Have you tried doing a make realclean?
15:20 Austin Whew
15:20 Austin I'm not at that rev...
15:20 kthakore darbelo: let me try again ...
15:20 Austin So I guess I'm safe..
15:20 kthakore Austin: hahaha ... I thought you were gonna help
15:20 kthakore :p
15:21 * Austin doesn't do 'C'
15:21 kthakore Austin: oh well
15:21 * kthakore is all about the C
15:21 kthakore :D
15:22 darbelo I have a succesfuly built r48341 here.  That's why I suggested a realclean.
15:23 kid51 r48341 build okay for me
15:23 kthakore darbelo: doing it again ...
15:26 kid51 r48341 make test PASS on linux/i386
15:27 kthakore kid51: that is what I have
15:27 kthakore ok ... weighting
15:29 kthakore btw ... does anyone know if anyone has done a memory profile of parrot?
15:29 kthakore like ccmalloc ?
15:29 mak kthakore: hi, sorry there was no power
15:29 sorear We use a private allocator.
15:30 kthakore sorear: no I don't mean that
15:30 kthakore sorear: I was wondering if we have profiled parrot tests to see where most of the memmory is consumed?
15:31 sorear That's so easy we don'e even need to profile./
15:31 sorear init_pmc.
15:31 purl init_pmc is, like, called when a pmc is passed to init
15:31 sorear (or is it new_pmc?  been a while)
15:31 kthakore sorear: I don't understand ...
15:31 kthakore oh you are saying init_pmc takes most memory?
15:31 kthakore but where ?
15:31 kthakore in init_pmc
15:31 sorear On the garbage collected heap.
15:32 Austin kthakore: You can't go more than a day or two on here without chromatic showing up burbling about shaving 0.011% off memory consumption. Check the irc logs for the last few days, there were some guys showing various profiling scripts.
15:33 mak Austin : putting the say on 269 worked, but putting the very same thing back again in the main didn't ... weird
15:34 mak http://gist.github.com/512902
15:34 Austin mak: what happens if you move the say to just before the .end in the main sub?
15:34 kthakore Austin: ok
15:39 Andy joined #parrot
15:42 mak This time a different error
15:43 Austin Well, that's progress.
15:43 mak http://gist.github.com/512910
15:43 Austin If we can change the error, we must be in the right place
15:43 mak :) what a bad start when learning something new
15:44 Austin Well, that's a run time, not compile time, error.
15:45 Austin Try moving the 'say' to after the !fire-phasers(INIT) call.
15:45 mak ok
15:46 mak build speed is slow... a cycle of change-build-test takes a little time
15:47 Austin Yeah, I know.
15:50 mak same old error again http://gist.github.com/512914
15:51 Austin That's baffling
15:51 Austin I could understand if it depended on some kind of init-foo.
15:52 Austin Maybe it's the compreg?
15:52 Austin Try moving down one more line (after the compreg)
15:52 Austin My bad. I should have thought of that before.
15:52 Austin compreg = register a compiler
15:53 Austin It shouldn't have any effect - the compreg in question is a get, not a set.
15:53 Austin But I guess it might...
15:53 Austin Otherwise, I have no idea why it's failing.
15:54 mak #perl6 guys couldn't help either
15:54 Austin You probably want pmichaud or jnthn. I'm not 100% sure who else is elbow-deep in rakudo...
15:57 mak putting it after compreg didn't work
15:58 Austin Well, that's good.
15:58 Austin At least the get/set thing is true.
16:00 mak There have been similar such commands in the log, http://gist.github.com/512925
16:01 mak there its -o src/gen/perl6.pbc
16:01 mak but in here its just -o per6.pbc
16:02 Austin Run this command, tail -n +222 xx.pir | head -10 | od -t x1z
16:02 Austin except change xx.pir to the name of your pir file
16:03 mak http://gist.github.com/512926
16:06 Austin THat looks depressingly normal
16:07 Austin Hmm
16:07 Austin try head -10 src/gen/core.pir
16:08 mak http://gist.github.com/512932
16:08 Austin I'm thinking that first line looks wrong
16:08 TiMBuS Austin, i can confirm theres nothing odd about the file except the 'say' opcode being added
16:09 Austin timbus: Thanks
16:09 TiMBuS it's really strange
16:10 Austin Aha
16:10 Austin !!
16:10 mak eureka???
16:10 purl eureka is not a good place to live, trust me or skud's web log analyser that uses MySQL to make it easy to drill down on information, at http://sourceforge.net/projects/eureka/ or as Skud says, a good idea with a piss-poor to non-existent implementation, please don't look.
16:10 Austin mak
16:10 mak yes
16:10 Austin The first run is outputting what you want, with -o to some other file.
16:11 mak didn't get you
16:11 Austin The second run is inputting that file, with the added line, and failing because the extra line is syntactically invalid as input
16:12 Austin The first run of Cmpiler is emitting "Copyright perl foundation", but it is redirected by -o src/gen/core.pm
16:12 Austin So the "Copyright ..." become line 1 of src/gen/core.pm
16:12 Austin Then, the next time the makefile runs Compiler, the input file (src/gen/core.pm) contains a syntax error: "Copyright ..." at its first line.
16:13 TiMBuS i guessed that Compiler.pir was being preprocessed in some way, but thats a bit different to what i was expecting..
16:13 Austin The .include directive @line 270 or so shows up as the error location.
16:13 Austin EVen though it's really in a different file.
16:13 mak Then how come other say's in the Compiler are not throwing errors and only the ones in main?
16:14 Austin timbus: Compiler isn't being preprocessed. core.pm->core.pir is
16:14 Austin They aren't being run.
16:14 mak ohhhhkk
16:14 Austin mak: They aren't being run, and they aren't errors.
16:14 Austin Try this.
16:14 Austin Replace the say in main with printerr
16:15 Austin printerr 'Copyright ...'
16:15 Austin MAybe add \n
16:16 mak or something like ... say 'say "Copyright Perl Foundation"'
16:16 TiMBuS Austin, yeah that's what I meant. it was quite different to what I had expected, but now its totally obvious
16:16 Austin timbus:   See here, third line uses >src/gen/core.pir   http://gist.github.com/512925
16:17 Austin mak: No, because first line is not inside correct structure. (sey has to be inside .sub/.end block). Maybe a comment instead :   say '# Hello world'
16:18 tcurtis joined #parrot
16:19 Austin mak: Result will be first line of src/gen/core.pir if you do a print or say. Result should appear on console (stderr) if you do a printerr.
16:20 mak The whole point of putting those say's is to use them as kind of debug logs
16:20 Austin Heh
16:20 mak yes , printerr stuff works
16:20 mak just tested
16:20 mak :)
16:20 sorear clearly we need a 'note' opcode.
16:20 Austin That works, until you add >src/gen/core.pir on the outside of the script. Then your log message gets written to the wrong place.
16:20 Austin :)
16:20 * Austin ++
16:22 mak or maybe while using debug statements instead of printing it out on stdout .. print it out in a file
16:22 mak does parrot have IO stuff?
16:23 mak file IO i mean
16:23 Austin Yeah, there's dynamic ops (open) and FileHandle pmc type
16:24 mak Lots to learn... good I got this error... learn't a lot  today
16:27 mak thanks Austin
16:27 Austin Happy to help, mak. I'm sorry it took so long.
16:32 mak Well I was just thinking ... In that case #perl6 folks must also  use printerr's instead of say's
16:34 mak Compiler error messages must be use the printerr instead of say
16:35 robin-gvx joined #parrot
16:36 mak left #parrot
17:20 dalek parrot: r48342 | darbelo++ | branches/unshared_buffers/src/string/api.c:
17:20 dalek parrot: Fix braino in chopn semantics.
17:20 dalek parrot: review: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/48342/
17:38 rurban_ joined #parrot
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18:02 Andy joined #parrot
18:40 dalek rakudo: fca2d32 | pmichaud++ | src/core/Any-list.pm:
18:40 dalek rakudo: Fix Whatever in .[*] and .{*} .   Fixes RT #77072.
18:40 dalek rakudo: review: http://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/f​ca2d3265f6e138611d86ed977cd201fe56bb7c0
18:52 plobsing joined #parrot
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21:17 Paul_the_Greek joined #parrot
21:17 Paul_the_Greek Hey folks.
21:26 mikehh greetings, Paul_the_Greek
21:26 Paul_the_Greek A much more pleasant day here.
21:27 mikehh not too bad here, except night has falen
21:27 mikehh two l's
21:27 Paul_the_Greek Where are you?
21:28 mikehh Aberdeen, Scotland
21:28 Paul_the_Greek Ah, wonderful. My wife was just in England and France. We were in Scotland many years ago.
21:28 Paul_the_Greek I'm in Massachusetts, USA.
21:30 bacek joined #parrot
21:32 Paul_the_Greek So when do you think the Lorito project is going to get really serious?
21:32 mikehh ah well. bacek is in Sydney where it is 7 32am tomorrow
21:33 Paul_the_Greek Is he the Lorito guy?
21:34 mikehh It's been under discussion for a while now, but we are going through the design process at the moment, with a couple of prototypes
21:34 mikehh cotto, chromatic
21:35 Paul_the_Greek What is being used to assemble it now?
21:39 mikehh I don't think it has got that far yet - there is a prototype at http://github.com/atrodo/lorito
21:39 mikehh just looking at some concepts
21:42 mikehh check out - http://wknight8111.blogspot.c​om/2010/07/lorito-design.html
21:42 cotto There are a couple prototypes but they're very experimental atm.
21:43 cotto One of my weekend projects is to wrap my head around using CPS in an assembly language context.
21:46 mikehh cotto: what's that Continuation passing style?
21:48 Paul_the_Greek Is the ultimately a sophisticated macro assembler for Lorito, or is that the job of higher-level components?
21:54 mikehh my understanding at the moment is that lorito will be a sort of micro-architecture, with the current PIR riding on top of it
21:55 mikehh so that our current op codes will generate one or more lorito ops for each higher-level( current) ops
21:57 Paul_the_Greek So no one will write code in Lorito ops, but rather continue to write PIR code?
21:58 Paul_the_Greek The PIR compiler will be changed to emit Lorito, then.
21:59 mikehh well probably even higher level NQP for example or ultimately Rakudo or Partcl or something like that
21:59 mikehh obviously we need to provide the infrastructure for that
22:00 cotto mikehh, that's correct.
22:00 cotto I
22:01 mikehh I think that is where pir/PIRATE is supposed to come in
22:01 cotto 'd probably make both of us more confused if I tried to explain CPS.  Wikipedia is a good starting place.
22:01 mikehh if you like Scheme or something
22:01 * cotto needs to go
22:01 Paul_the_Greek I'm trying to get a handle on the Lorito assembly process because I think that might be something I could help with.
22:02 Paul_the_Greek The current status of the assemblers is confusing.
22:03 mikehh I think initially each lorito op will effectively be a C function call or something like that
22:05 Paul_the_Greek Yes, that's the impression I get.
22:06 Paul_the_Greek And if humans don't write Lorito, then no fancy macro assembler is needed.
22:06 Paul_the_Greek IMCC appears to be a mudpile, while PIRC seems to be stagnant.
22:06 mikehh well we had IMCC, which has evolved to be almost incomprehensible, kjs started PIRC which has at this stage not evolved into our new assembler, pir/PIRATE seems to be a new option
22:07 Paul_the_Greek PIRATE?
22:07 purl PIRATE is a career that is washed up these days...and raping and pillaging just doesn't have a good reputation these days.... or http://www.eff.org/IP/DRM/piratead/CEA_ad.png or http://www.wired.com/politics/securi​ty/magazine/17-07/ff_somali_pirates or PIR parser (and compiler) implemented in NQP http://github.com/bacek/pir or http://tweetphoto.com/28970505
22:07 mikehh one of our problems here is that we have only had one or two people working on IMCC or PIRC which is not a good bus number
22:09 Paul_the_Greek There is no code directory for PIRATE. It must be a separate project.
22:10 Paul_the_Greek Ah, I found separate info on PIRATE.
22:12 mikehh there was some work on opsc by bacek & cotto, bacek then re-implemented pir (as PIRATRE) to take advantage of that, both these projects were a SORT OF LEAD-IN TO lORITO
22:12 mikehh pirate
22:13 mikehh dammit - hit the CAPS-LOCK by mistake
22:14 mikehh anyway compilers/opsc and pir/PIRATE are projects that should make implementation of Lorito easier
22:16 mikehh at the moment they use nqp-rx which could raise some bootstratpping problems but hey
22:16 Paul_the_Greek So maybe I could help with PIRATE. It looks like it's in need of help.
22:18 mikehh our main coding-robot on that - bacek - seems to have taken a work-related break recently, hopefully he's back
22:19 kid51 joined #parrot
22:19 Paul_the_Greek Who is Tyler Leslie Curtis? His name is all over the place.
22:20 mikehh tcurtis - one of our GSOC students, he has been working on optimizations for GSOC
22:22 Paul_the_Greek Okay, maybe I'll bring this up during Tuesday's summit.
22:24 mikehh initially his work was in the gsoc_past_optimization branch but has recently moved to github as http://github.com/ekiru/tree-optimization
22:24 mikehh the optimizations are being used in quite a few projects
22:24 Paul_the_Greek I've saved that link. Now I'm off for a bit of dinner. Thanks for all your help. I'll be back later.
22:24 mikehh cu
22:34 dalek partcl-nqp: 27a67b8 | Coke++ |  (2 files):
22:34 dalek partcl-nqp: convert [namespace] to the Austin++ style of subcommand ensemble.
22:34 purl I don't know how to convert [namespace] to the Austin++ style of subcommand ensemble..
22:34 dalek partcl-nqp: - pass a bunch of arg-handling tests
22:34 dalek partcl-nqp: review: http://github.com/partcl/partcl-nqp/commit​/27a67b8e63d57d20e82785b40092eb0e7104e4d9
22:34 dalek partcl-nqp: 4f6834c | Coke++ | README:
22:34 dalek partcl-nqp: explain the "NQP" a bit, remove the POC. This is pretty much it now.
22:34 dalek partcl-nqp: review: http://github.com/partcl/partcl-nqp/commit​/4f6834cf8187a2f85b39e2caebc659e2c4d9bc2f
22:34 dalek partcl-nqp: d40408c | Coke++ | docs/overview.pod:
22:34 dalek partcl-nqp: minor cleanups
22:34 dalek partcl-nqp: review: http://github.com/partcl/partcl-nqp/commit​/d40408ccadb38db072d5bd25a49f7f89f70ad257
22:34 dalek partcl-nqp: d53f3d6 | Coke++ |  (3 files):
22:34 dalek partcl-nqp: Merge branch 'master' of github.com:partcl/partcl-nqp
22:34 dalek partcl-nqp: review: http://github.com/partcl/partcl-nqp/commit​/d53f3d64141f02898ec6d2d4f6f884e5d9a3a51c
22:36 desertm4x joined #parrot
22:45 dalek partcl-nqp: 11a2c80 | Coke++ |  (37 files):
22:45 dalek partcl-nqp: Avoid specifying pirop signatures if they are baked in to PCT.
22:45 dalek partcl-nqp: review: http://github.com/partcl/partcl-nqp/commit​/11a2c80cd4db1cd8240e38c443b980d60a22f32d
22:46 dalek partcl-nqp: ae8abf9 | Coke++ |  (4 files):
22:46 dalek partcl-nqp: Merge branch 'master' of github.com:partcl/partcl-nqp
22:46 dalek partcl-nqp: review: http://github.com/partcl/partcl-nqp/commit​/ae8abf909c2c4ac6ed5fe2f347f38c270ba3e895
22:47 Austin That sounds like something Coke would have said.
23:06 Paul_the_Greek Hey all.
23:08 LoganLK joined #parrot
23:09 Coke (you don't need 'make clean', PTG, if you're just editing non-config files.
23:09 LoganLK joined #parrot
23:09 Coke the whole point of the makefile is so that if you change "A", "make" will rebuild only the files you need.
23:14 Coke Austin: what does?
23:14 brianwisti joined #parrot
23:14 Coke msg kthakore there are folks checking on memory profiling, yes, but more eyes are always welcome.
23:14 purl Message for kthakore stored.
23:16 Austin Coke: something frompurl
23:16 Austin *from purl
23:18 Coke is the person who was having trouble modifying rakudo still on?
23:18 Austin Mak? I'm not sure.
23:18 Austin I think we got that worked out, though.
23:30 Austin Coke++ # I got parrot to build with only a few test failures using D:\parrot_strawberry. Which frankly ought to be pretty embarassing for parrot, but did solve my problem.
23:32 Coke msg Paul_the_Greek - why change the component on ticket # 1605? if the docs are outdated, is that not a docs issue?
23:32 purl Message for paul_the_greek stored.
23:32 Coke Austin: that's probably the least embarassing embarassing thing.
23:33 Paul_the_Greek Coke: The first round of patches were actually changes to comments and one or two bits of code, so I thought the ticket should say core.
23:33 Paul_the_Greek Then when I submit the patch to the documentation, I'll change it back.
23:33 Paul_the_Greek Is that the right sort of thing to do?
23:42 Coke overkill.
23:42 purl there is no such thing as overkill. there is only "not enough kill" and "enough kill" or if it's worth doing, it's worth overdoing (mythbusters) or http://thereifixedit.files.wordpress​.com/2009/12/129044739191257156.jpg
23:43 Coke that sort of information is much more important on tickets that are not currently being worked on.
23:46 Paul_the_Greek Okay, I won't worry about it to much. I figured it would help the folks who actually commit the patches.
23:46 Paul_the_Greek too
23:47 somebody_ joined #parrot
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23:53 Paul_the_Greek Does the PGE make it possible to have a macro facility in a language?
23:58 plobsing Paul_the_Greek: not sure about PGE, but PCT has the ability to insert steps in arbitrary locations.
23:59 plobsing what sort of macros are we talking about? the C textish ones or the lispy tokenish ones?
23:59 Psyche^ joined #parrot
23:59 Paul_the_Greek I was thinking of text-oriented ones, but with much more power than C.
23:59 Paul_the_Greek Something like a sophisticated assembler would have.

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