Camelia, the Perl 6 bug

IRC log for #parrot, 2010-08-09

Parrot | source cross referenced

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:00 bacek_at_work aloha, humans
00:07 Austin whiteknight: link?
00:07 purl link is for me?
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00:13 whiteknight Austin: http://science.slashdot.org/story/10/08/08​/226227/Claimed-Proof-That-P--NP?from=rss
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00:31 * Austin sings, "Someday soon I'll leave this world of pain and toil and sin."
00:32 * Austin sings, "The Lord will take my by the hand to join all of me kin'"
00:32 * Austin sings, "Me only wish is when the savior comes for me and you..."
00:32 * Austin sings, "He kills the cast of Riverdance, and Michael Flatley, too!"
00:47 cotto brings a tear to my eye
01:05 Austin DaVinci's Notebook, "Another Irish Drinking Song"
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01:55 Austin Jeez. It's about time! bootstrap/Pmc/Hash.nqp passes, finally.
01:55 * Austin ++
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01:58 dalek parrot: r48351 | jkeenan++ | branches/tt1726_pmc_pod/t/codingstd/pmc_docs.t:
01:58 dalek parrot: Refactor internals so as to create a data structure where the documentation
01:58 dalek parrot: status of each function in each .pmc file is recorded.  Then the tests are an
01:58 purl Since Thu Aug  5 20:55:17 2010, there have been 286 modifications and 210 questions.  I have been awake for 3 days, 5 hours, 3 minutes, 39 seconds this session, and currently reference 853176 factoids. Addressing is in optional mode.
01:58 dalek parrot: iteration through this data structure.  Some changes to output.
01:58 dalek parrot: review: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/48351/
01:59 cotto stupid bot
01:59 purl Bad programmer, no cookie!
02:04 Austin vomit, hurl, whorf, fail.
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02:18 cotto My student seems to have come up with something of non-trivial shininess.
02:20 cotto not quite perfect, but shiny
02:24 nopaste "cotto" at 192.168.1.3 pasted "explodey code for khairul" (64 lines) at http://nopaste.snit.ch/22634
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02:52 khairul cotto: ping
02:53 cotto khairul, pong
02:53 cotto http://nopaste.snit.ch/22634
02:53 cotto I heard you like segfaults.
03:04 nopaste "cotto" at 192.168.1.3 pasted "more minimal test case for khairul" (33 lines) at http://nopaste.snit.ch/22635
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03:29 nopaste "cotto" at 192.168.1.3 pasted "diff from trunk and khairul's branch" (49 lines) at http://nopaste.snit.ch/22636
03:34 nopaste "cotto" at 192.168.1.3 pasted "diff from trunk and khairul's branch, v2" (33 lines) at http://nopaste.snit.ch/22637
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03:39 nopaste "cotto" at 192.168.1.3 pasted "gsoc_instrument test failures on ubuntu 10.04 x86 for khairul" (22 lines) at http://nopaste.snit.ch/22638
03:45 dalek rakudo: ded33e1 | pmichaud++ | docs/release_guide.pod:
03:45 dalek rakudo: Update release guide to note new publication strategy for
03:45 dalek rakudo: compiler release announcements.
03:45 dalek rakudo: review: http://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/d​ed33e17786b1fbc15ee3e1de3b33c192e04515f
03:55 dalek parrot: r48352 | cotto++ | branches/gsoc_instrument/src/pmc/task.pmc:
03:55 dalek parrot: remove some unneeded changes to Task
03:55 dalek parrot: review: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/48352/
03:55 dalek parrot: r48353 | khairul++ | branches/gsoc_instrument/t​/dynpmc/instrumentclass.t:
03:55 dalek parrot: Fixed copy-paste error.
03:55 dalek parrot: review: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/48353/
04:11 dalek parrot: r48354 | cotto++ | trunk (2 files):
04:11 dalek parrot: store a reference to a thrown exception in the runloop struct
04:11 dalek parrot: review: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/48354/
04:14 dalek rakudo: 38f9f12 | duff++ | docs/release_guide.pod:
04:14 dalek rakudo: volunteer for the Oct release
04:14 dalek rakudo: review: http://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/3​8f9f12b4e7cdcb5db6a17511dc7da8d898737d5
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04:28 dalek parrot: r48355 | khairul++ | branches/gsoc_instrument/s​rc/dynpmc/instrument.pmc:
04:28 dalek parrot: Mark attr->event_handlers.
04:28 dalek parrot: review: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/48355/
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04:49 * Austin ++ # Array bootstrap works
04:53 cotto msg khairul t/dynpmc/instrument.t passes with r48355
04:53 purl Message for khairul stored.
05:03 cotto if you want to karma yourself, you can always abuse nopaste
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05:28 Austin Surprising how frustrating this is...
05:29 Austin I don't really want karma. I'm just giving myself a moral pat on the back...
05:30 sorear why abuse nopaste when you can abuse dalek instead
05:33 * Austin sings, "... and I'm all strung out on heroin on the outskirts of town"
05:34 Austin Hmm
05:34 Austin Maybe something is wrong with String.defined
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05:51 dalek parrot: r48356 | plobsing++ | branches/dynop_mapping (51 files):
05:51 dalek parrot: sync with trunk
05:51 dalek parrot: review: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/48356/
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06:39 Austin Ahh. Undef.defined now returns 1...
06:50 Austin purl, make me a sandwich
06:50 purl Austin: what?
06:50 Austin purl, sudo make me a sandwich
06:50 purl Austin: excuse me?
06:50 Austin :(
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07:34 dalek TT #1734 created by moritz++: PCT::Compiler should null temporaries when they are no longer needed
07:34 dalek TT #1734: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/ticket/1734
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08:50 dalek rakudo: c1e19af | moritz++ | docs/ChangeLog:
08:50 dalek rakudo: update ChangeLog a bit
08:50 dalek rakudo: review: http://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/c​1e19af5496cb694f17b5d7029f57d08ea415f19
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09:40 NotFound Hi
09:40 purl privet, NotFound.
10:37 mikehh All tests PASS (pre/post-config, make corevm/make coretest, test, fulltest) at r48356 - Ubuntu 10.04 amd64 (g++ with --optimize)
10:46 mikehh winxed r585 builds on parrot r48659, make test/test1/test2 PASS - Ubuntu 10.04 amd64 (g++ with --optimize)
10:51 mikehh partcl-nqp (7548f1a) builds on parrot r48356 - make test PASS (t/cmd_expr.t - TODO passed:   287) - Ubuntu 10.04 amd64 (g++ with --optimize)
10:54 mikehh oops - the winxed is at parrot r48656, (don't know where the 9 came in, must check what I type before hittin' enter)
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11:26 Austin NotFound++ ; TT update
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12:33 dalek parrot: r48357 | NotFound++ | trunk/src/call/args.c:
12:33 dalek parrot: fix pcc handling of slurpy after optional, TT #1733
12:33 dalek parrot: review: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/48357/
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12:51 nopaste "bluescreen" at 192.168.1.3 pasted "Don't know if this is the expected behavior or not" (23 lines) at http://nopaste.snit.ch/22644
12:52 bluescreen when I execute that I get Method 'someMethod' not found for invocant of class 'String'
12:53 Austin_away .lex creates an alias for self. Looks okay to me.
12:53 * Coke wonders how long lua was dead when we were saying it was the only complete impl. =-)
12:54 bluescreen so, so when i store something in var1 it overwrites self?
12:54 moritz bluescreen: you're calling 'someMethod' on a string. What else would you expect?
12:54 bluescreen I thought .lex was some sort of var1 declaration not an alias
12:54 moritz it says "declare variable var1, and associate it with self"
12:56 bluescreen that code is generated through NQP-rx, when i create a Variable var1 with value self
12:56 bluescreen and use the .isdecl(1)
12:56 Coke nqp-rx only has :=
12:56 bluescreen so, should do it in some other way?
12:56 Coke can you show us the nqp-rx code?
12:56 Austin_away I think he means "Past"
12:57 bluescreen well yes! i meant PAST
12:57 Coke past is a library, not a language. =-)
12:57 Coke anyway, if you can show us the /source/ of what you're doing, we can help you figure out if that's what you mean to do.
12:58 bluescreen my $variable := PAST::Var.new(:name($name),
12:58 bluescreen :scope<lexical>,
12:58 bluescreen :viviself<Undef>,
12:58 bluescreen :node($/) );
12:58 bluescreen $variable.isdecl(1);
12:58 NotFound Coke: I think It broke recently with some pcc optimiations
12:58 bluescreen this is from parrot 2.4.9
12:58 bluescreen 2.4.0
12:58 Coke NotFound: (recently) well, that's something. NotFound++ for fixing it!
12:58 Austin_away I don't see self
12:59 moritz bluescreen: first step: update to 2.6.0
12:59 NotFound Coke: probably was me who broke it, so the world is balanced ;)
12:59 Austin_away NotFound-- # for breaking it
13:00 * Coke focuses on $DAYJOB.
13:00 bluescreen Austin_away: Its a long code and part of an HLL and I don't want to bore everyone, I now know that .lex are aliases
13:01 bluescreen thanks, Coke, moritz, NotFound and Austin_away
13:01 moritz basically you shouldn't have to care what variables they are being aliased to
13:01 Austin_away bluescreen: This may still be an optimization bug. Beware.
13:01 moritz unless you want to interface with the generated PIR in some non-standard way
13:02 bluescreen and you saying this is something that is broken since 2.4.0?
13:17 bluescreen guys what would be a good go-to site when I try to understand for instance the expected behavior of ".lex" and other directives/opcodes ?
13:18 Austin_away #parrot on irc. :)
13:20 bluescreen lol.. I guess doc is not up-to-date
13:22 mikehh rakudo (c1e19af) builds on parrot r48356 - make test PASS, make stresstest (pugs r31933) FAIL - Ubuntu 10.04 amd64 (g++ with --optimize)
13:22 mikehh t/spec/S03-smartmatch/any-bool.t - No subtests run
13:23 Austin_away bluescreen: http://docs.parrot.org/parrot/lates​t/html/docs/pdds/pdd19_pir.pod.html
13:24 Austin_away The $_PARROT/docs directory contains these pod files, too, so you don't have to be online.
13:24 bluescreen thanks Austin_away, looks good
13:24 Austin_away What it doesn't make clear is the relation between .local and .lex
13:25 Austin_away In your case, "self" is a built-in .local symbol, that creates an alias 'self' for some register ($P14, say)
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13:26 smash hello everyone
13:26 Austin_away So saying .lex 'var1', self
13:26 Austin_away is the same as saying .lex 'var1', $P14
13:26 Austin_away The thing is, either approach to modifying $P14 -- using self or using 'var1' -- changes both aliases.
13:29 bluescreen thanks!
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14:33 Austin_away What happened to the File pmc?
14:36 Coke probably a dynpmc now.
14:37 Coke hai. there it is.
14:39 plobsing ping NotFound
14:40 Austin_away coke++ #found it
14:40 Coke I am using the OS pmc in partcl-old, damned if I see how I'm loading it.
14:43 Austin_away Me too. It must be loaded by something basic
14:44 plobsing HLL.pbc loads it (trial and error)
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14:52 jdv79 pmichaud: are your talks from the YAPCs this year online anywhere?
14:53 moritz http://pmichaud.com/2010/pres/ has some slides
14:53 jdv79 ah, i just realized i should look harder. thanks.
14:54 moritz afaict the video recordings from YAPC::EU aren't online yet
14:54 moritz there are some talks from YAPC::NA on http://www.presentingperl.org/yn2010/
14:55 plobsing msg NotFound I've entered a couple issues in the winxed issue tracker (not sure how often you check there)
14:55 purl Message for notfound stored.
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16:02 dalek rakudo: 6d9691d | petdance++ | src/binder/bind.c:
16:02 dalek rakudo: Fix a problem of setting *error with itself. (RT #77098)
16:02 dalek rakudo: review: http://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/6​d9691d451e39f5ee3a7f9f88c41d89a27097b94
16:02 Andy yay me
16:06 Coke Andy++
16:06 Andy I like to be fixin' the stuff.
16:07 Coke ok. tell me how to make git show me the short id. =-)
16:10 Andy heh, dunno.
16:10 Coke ah, git log --abbrev-commit # not --abbrev.
16:13 dafrito Coke: git log --oneline is useful for a brief summary, if you were wondering :) It also abbreviates commits
16:14 Coke dafrito: danke.
16:19 dafrito And you can combine it with an alias, too, for brevity's sake. This will make 'git ol' output the 10 most recent commits, in oneline form: git config --global --add alias.ol 'log --oneline -10'
16:19 dafrito I like aliasing up ones like that, along with things like ci=commit, rb=rebase, and so forth
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16:38 Coke evalbot?
16:38 purl evalbot is probably set to do something when people say something
16:38 Coke purlbot?
16:38 purl i think purlbot is moderation accurate there
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16:55 dalek partcl-nqp: 3d4dff5 | Coke++ |  (2 files):
16:55 dalek partcl-nqp: [namespace qualifiers] Austin++ for nqp syntax help.
16:55 dalek partcl-nqp: Also add a stub for inscope, taken from partcl.
16:55 dalek partcl-nqp: review: http://github.com/partcl/partcl-nqp/commit​/3d4dff5fdb3a9f09f0816a16d5eb58f026242ece
17:17 * cotto_work was really hoping for P = NP
17:19 Chandon Someone offered you really good odds in a bet?
17:21 cotto_work Nah.  It's unlikely but it'd really shake things up.  I wouldn't bet on it.
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17:31 cotto_work dafrito, you pinged me earlier?
17:32 dafrito cotto_work: Yeah, I did some more looking-into with the svn-to-git stuff
17:33 dafrito I tweaked my script a bit, and let it list out commits that are unmapped. I hosted it on github: http://github.com/dafrito/map-svn
17:33 Coke dafrito?
17:33 Coke ENOPURLTIDBIT
17:34 cotto_work You don't exist if purl doesn't know anything about you.
17:34 cotto_work ;)
17:34 dafrito I'm absurdly new
17:34 cotto_work purl, dafrito is absurdly new
17:34 purl OK, cotto_work.
17:34 dafrito haha
17:35 dafrito I also found some stuff that git has/creates that could help. It looks like it creates a revision db of its own. It also has 'git svn find-rev' that will find a commit for a given SVN revision
17:35 cotto_work nice
17:36 cotto_work that should make it trivial
17:36 dafrito git svn find-rev was slow for me, but that might be because my repo is a clone of a clone, so it has no SVN metadata
17:36 dafrito Do you have one?
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17:42 dalek rakudo: 4bd4783 | pmichaud++ | docs/ROADMAP:
17:42 dalek rakudo: Add operator precedence traits to ROADMAP.
17:42 dalek rakudo: review: http://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/4​bd4783b86a264d981782919f3448da74a510b9d
17:43 dukeleto 'ello
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17:43 cotto_work hi
17:43 purl what's up, cotto_work.
17:47 cotto_work dukeleto: what do you use for your git clone of Parrot on github?
17:48 dukeleto cotto_work: git svn
17:52 moritz Coke: I ran perl Configure.pl --gen-parrot  in partcl-nqp, and it did run parrot's configure, but not make (or make install)
17:52 moritz Coke: so the subsequent version detection of parrot failed
17:52 dafrito dukeleto: would you mind putting your .git/svn directory for that repo somewhere?
17:52 * dukeleto attempts to update the parrot mirror on github
17:53 dukeleto dafrito: what are you trying to do?
17:54 moritz Coke: ... and there's no 'make install' target, which I would kinda expect
17:54 dafrito dukeleto: I wrote a script to parse the git-svn-id's in the commits, but I think git already keeps a database for itself called rev.db or something similar
17:54 dukeleto dafrito: this is probably more useful for you http://technosorcery.net/system/parrot-git-svn.tbz
17:54 dukeleto dafrito: which is linked from http://trac.parrot.org/par​rot/wiki/git-svn-tutorial
17:55 dafrito dukeleto: ooh, awesome, thank you
17:56 dafrito that's probably what cotto pointed me to the other day, too. silly me :(
17:57 moritz Coke: I can deal with all that, just wanted to tell you about my experiences
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17:58 moritz partcl-nqp: put 3
17:58 p6eval partcl-nqp: OUTPUT«Could not find sub put␤current instr.: '_block11' pc 12 (EVAL_1:10)␤called from Sub 'tcl;HLL;Compiler;_block470' pc 24271 (ext/nqp-rx/src/stage0/HLL-s0.pir:7848)␤called from Sub 'tcl;HLL;Compiler;eval' pc 24151 (ext/nqp-rx/src/stage0/HLL-s0.pir:0)␤called from Sub
17:58 p6eval ..'tcl;PCT;HLLCompil…
17:59 Coke partcl-nqp: puts moritz++
17:59 p6eval partcl-nqp: OUTPUT«moritz++␤»
18:00 moritz Coke: or do you want it as 'partcl' only?
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18:05 Coke no, -nqp is fine. partcl is still something else.
18:05 purl okay, Coke.
18:05 Coke *facepalm*
18:06 Coke moritz: I never use --gen-parrot - I'll fix that up and add an install target. no one has asked for it before. =-)
18:06 Coke moritz++
18:07 Coke partcl-nqp: puts \u6666
18:07 p6eval partcl-nqp: OUTPUT«晦␤»
18:07 Coke partcl-nqp: puts \u1234
18:07 p6eval partcl-nqp: OUTPUT«ሴ␤»
18:08 Coke partcl-nqp: puts [string totitle PARROT end-4 4]
18:08 p6eval partcl-nqp: OUTPUT«PArroT␤»
18:09 * Coke bounces!
18:12 dafrito cotto_work: yeah, using the git-svn tarball, "git svn find-rev r34542" is quick and does what you were looking for :)
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18:12 cotto_work Great.  It sounds like the problem of getting the map is solved.
18:16 * dukeleto updated the parrot mirror on github
18:21 bubaflub dukeleto: hola
18:21 purl hi, bubaflub.
18:22 dukeleto bubaflub: hola
18:22 purl que tal, dukeleto.
18:22 * dukeleto notes that today is the soft "pencils down" date for GSoC
18:23 bubaflub dukeleto: yeah, that's a bummer...
18:25 dukeleto bubaflub: you still have a week until the hard "pencils down" date
18:25 bubaflub dukeleto: yeah, which means sprint to the finish
18:25 bubaflub dukeleto: i definitely didn't hit all my targets )-:
18:25 dukeleto bubaflub: what do you think you can get done in the next week?
18:26 bubaflub dukeleto: i might be able to finish up the out of directory building, i'm almost finished with that
18:26 bubaflub combined with my earlier work on getting Configure.pl to work with cross compiling stuff, that'll build a libparrot to link with embedded targets
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18:28 Paul_the_Greek Hey folks.
18:28 Paul_the_Greek Do we have the usual chat meeting tomorrow at 4:30?
18:29 dukeleto Paul_the_Greek: are you talking about #parrotsketch ? 4:30 without a timezone doesn't mean much to anybody
18:29 bubaflub purl: parrotsketch?
18:29 purl parrotsketch is a status meeting for parrot core committers held every Tuesday at 20:30 UTC in #parrotsketch
18:30 bubaflub i believe that's 4:30 on the eastern coast of the US
18:30 Paul_the_Greek Oops, pardon my parochialism. Yes, the meeting at 20:30 UTC.
18:30 dukeleto bubaflub: i think you should put all your concentration into getting out of directory building working
18:30 dukeleto Paul_the_Greek: no worries, timezones are the devils work
18:31 bubaflub Paul_the_Greek: I haven't heard / read otherwise
18:31 bubaflub dukeleto: okey dokey.  i got a good amount done over this weekend - only thing i need to do now is fix some of the gen:: steps
18:31 Paul_the_Greek Is that the venue to discuss potential fixes to bugs?
18:31 dukeleto Paul_the_Greek: possibly, but here is fine as well
18:32 dukeleto Paul_the_Greek: #ps is mostly to have everyone at the same place so that the group can make decisions and decide on priorities
18:33 Paul_the_Greek Okay, then I'll annotate the ticket with my questions and point people here to it.
18:36 Paul_the_Greek Where are types like INTVAL defined?
18:38 dukeleto bubaflub: ok, ask questions if you get stumped by something.
18:38 Paul_the_Greek I found INTVAL. Never mind.
18:39 Paul_the_Greek Can someone check this ticket: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/ticket/1245
18:39 bubaflub dukeleto: hah, was just about to PM you with one.  what i'm stuck on right now are some steps (the gen:: ones) where a template gets copied.  some of those templates exist in subfolders (like include/parrot).  those subfolders don't exist in the build directory.
18:40 bubaflub dukeleto: should i have the configure script copy all of those files just to the build dir (without the subfolder structure) and modify the makefile?  or should i make the configure script create those folders if they don't exist
18:40 Paul_the_Greek Never mind that ticket. I answered my own question.
18:40 Coke Paul_the_Greek: check it for what now?
18:40 Coke ... WIN!
18:41 Paul_the_Greek I assigned that ticket to myself. Seems like a good way to learn something about PMCs.
18:51 dukeleto bubaflub: which is the easier thing to do? which has fewer bad effects? what does Chris say?
18:51 bubaflub dukeleto: hmmm... maybe mirroring the directory structure.  i won't have to modify the Makefile (which itself is a beast)
18:51 bubaflub well, won't have to modify the paths to those files
18:52 Paul_the_Greek If anyone has an opinion on this ticket: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/ticket/1731
18:53 Paul_the_Greek I'd appreciate it. The last note summarizes the issue.
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19:11 Coke partcl-nqp: foreach {i j} {a b c d e f} { puts "$i..$j"}
19:11 p6eval partcl-nqp: OUTPUT«a..b␤c..d␤e..f␤»
19:13 dalek tree-optimization: c7ba4aa | tcurtis++ | s (5 files):
19:13 dalek tree-optimization: Add PAST::Optimizer and PAST::Optimizer::Pass.
19:13 dalek tree-optimization: review: http://github.com/ekiru/tree-optimization/com​mit/c7ba4aa04b71bada93f9d428c32d669eff6de2c7
19:13 dalek tree-optimization: b608fde | tcurtis++ | t/tree-optimizer.t:
19:13 dalek tree-optimization: Test deeper trees with :combine.
19:13 dalek tree-optimization: review: http://github.com/ekiru/tree-optimization/com​mit/b608fde28f22ca99352f324294025d9e015856eb
19:14 Coke see, tcl is a lot like perl6. =-)
19:14 tcurtis Coke: I don't know. foreach? sounds a little five-y. :)
19:15 * Coke wonders if it would be at all worthwhile to write any of partcl in tcl.
19:15 atrodo Coke> That's pretty cool.  Does the bot stay up to date?
19:17 Coke atrodo: moritz++, I assume it's as up to date as rakudo.
19:17 Coke rakudo: "what".say
19:17 p6eval rakudo 4bd478: OUTPUT«what␤»
19:17 Coke moritz: hey, is there anything I can do to faciliate the sha1 showing up for partcl?
19:18 Coke msg moritz hey, is there anything I can do to faciliate the sha1 showing up for partcl? (right, he's many TZ away)
19:18 purl Message for moritz stored.
19:23 brianwisti left #parrot
19:38 dalek tree-optimization: 1bb674a | tcurtis++ | src/PAST/Transformer.nqp:
19:38 dalek tree-optimization: Strings and Integers don't have children. Don't try walking them.
19:38 dalek tree-optimization: review: http://github.com/ekiru/tree-optimization/com​mit/1bb674a3a1f63a67fc207a879db7392d77b4a9c2
19:38 Paul_the_Greek Can someone explain the relationship between default.pmc, scalar.pmc, and integer.pmc?
19:39 cotto_work Default provides default implementations of all VTABLE functions.  If a PMC doesn't implement a VTABLE function, it gets Default's version.
19:39 cotto_work I'm not entirely clear on why we have Scalar.
19:41 cotto_work I'd think it'd have been nuked if it were useless, but that's not a safe assumption in Parrot.
19:41 Paul_the_Greek scalar.pmc has neg, for example, while integer.pmc has absolute.
19:42 Paul_the_Greek (for integers)
19:43 cotto_work Some PMCs seem to extend it.
19:43 Paul_the_Greek Oh, let's see ...
19:43 Coke scalar is a leftover from the "our pmcs should be like perl5" days, I think.
19:43 Coke I'm not sure that it would survive a rethink.
19:43 Paul_the_Greek I'll leave it alone.
19:44 Coke default is basically a placeholder for default method/vtable implementations.
19:44 Paul_the_Greek How does the dispatching work, though? How can all the neg vtable functions have the same signature?
19:44 cotto_work If you felt ambitious, I suspect it could go away.
19:44 Coke I think it's just a convenience because we didn't have roles. I also don't think it would survive a rethink.
19:45 Paul_the_Greek Ah, I see. The compiled .c files have expanded the signatures to include the file name.
19:45 Paul_the_Greek I'll start with this simple ticket: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/ticket/1245
19:46 Paul_the_Greek I bet that same bug exists in negate.
19:49 Paul_the_Greek Yes, it does.
19:49 purl if you say so...
20:15 GeJ Bonjour everyone.
20:16 hercynium joined #parrot
20:29 NotFound msg plobsing Issues accepted, thanks
20:29 purl Message for plobsing stored.
20:31 tcurtis Hi, GeJ,
20:34 cotto_work +1 to applying the patch from TT #1402 (after running headerizer) if anyone wants some easy karma
20:35 cotto_work cotto can take care of it if nobody else does before he can get to it
20:35 moritz Coke: easist way: write the SHA1 to file when 'make' is run
20:36 moritz Coke: I haven't yet installed an automatic rebuild script, so currently nothing is updated
20:40 Coke moritz: understood.
20:43 bluescreen joined #parrot
20:45 bubaflub cotto_work: i can apply that patch.  what is the command to run the headerizer?
20:45 cotto_work make headerizer
20:46 bubaflub hahaha. ok
20:51 bubaflub cotto_work: should i credit Paul_the_Greek for this one?
20:51 whiteknight joined #parrot
20:54 cotto_work It'd be nice.
20:55 darbelo joined #parrot
20:55 bubaflub alright, r48358 is out
20:55 bubaflub i'll close the ticket as well
20:55 * darbelo is back
20:56 cotto_work Wheee.  paul_the_greek's first commit
20:56 cotto_work you might add him to CREDITS too
20:56 dalek parrot: r48358 | bubaflub++ | trunk (2 files):
20:56 dalek parrot: Deprecate mem_internal_*alloc functions [TT #1402] Paul_the_Greek++
20:56 dalek parrot: review: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/48358/
20:58 bubaflub purl, Paul_the_Greek?
20:58 purl i haven't a clue, bubaflub
20:58 cotto_work Paul C. Anagnostopoulos on trac
21:00 bubaflub cotto_work: r48359 has him in the credits
21:05 dalek TT #1402 closed by bubaflub++: Deprecate mem_internal_*alloc functions.
21:05 dalek TT #1402: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/ticket/1402
21:06 darbelo And now that I have net access again... It's dcommit time!
21:07 darbelo bacek: ping.
21:08 cotto_work Does that branch actually build without strstart?
21:09 cotto_work nm.  next commit answers that question
21:10 darbelo cotto_work: builds and passess tests!
21:10 cotto_work darbelo++
21:10 cotto_work also, sed++
21:10 cotto_work ;)
21:11 darbelo sed-- # leaving out the casts :)
21:11 cotto_work it's only as smart as its user
21:12 darbelo That was allways unix's most crippling limitation. In my experience.
21:12 darbelo :)
21:13 cotto_work M7 should fix that
21:13 cotto_work it
21:13 dalek parrot: r48363 | darbelo++ | branches/unshared_buffers/include/parrot/pobj.h:
21:13 cotto_work 's a smop
21:13 dalek parrot: Remove strstart from the string definition. I knew I'd eventually eliminate this sucker!
21:13 dalek parrot: review: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/48363/
21:13 dalek parrot: r48364 | darbelo++ | branches/unshared_buffers/src (31 files):
21:13 dalek parrot: Mindless strstart replacement. All hail Buffer_bufstart()!
21:13 dalek parrot: review: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/48364/
21:13 dalek parrot: r48365 | darbelo++ | branches/unshared_buffers/​src/gc/alloc_resources.c:
21:13 dalek parrot: Minor update to src/gc/alloc_resources to better work on the new world of unshared buffers.
21:13 dalek parrot: review: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/48365/
21:13 dalek parrot: r48366 | darbelo++ | branches/unshared_buffers/src (3 files):
21:13 dalek parrot: Minor typo fixes. Also, add some casts here and there.
21:13 dalek parrot: review: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/48366/
21:13 dalek parrot: r48367 | darbelo++ | branches/unshared_buffers (2 files):
21:13 dalek parrot: Boostrap ops.
21:13 dalek parrot: review: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/48367/
21:13 dalek parrot: r48368 | darbelo++ | branches/unshared_buffers/d​ocs/pdds/pdd28_strings.pod:
21:13 dalek parrot: Update the strings PDD a bit.
21:13 dalek parrot: review: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/48368/
21:13 dalek parrot: r48369 | darbelo++ | branches/unshared_buffers/t/op/string_mem.t:
21:13 dalek parrot: Remove test for a feature that no longer exists.
21:14 dalek parrot: review: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/48369/
21:14 dalek parrot: r48370 | darbelo++ | branches/unshared_buffers/src (9 files):
21:14 dalek parrot: Fix the c++ build.
21:14 dalek parrot: review: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/48370/
21:14 dalek parrot: r48371 | darbelo++ | branches/unshared_buffers/src/string/api.c:
21:14 dalek parrot: Make codetest happy.
21:14 dalek parrot: review: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/48371/
21:14 dalek parrot: r48372 | darbelo++ | branches/unshared_buffers (4 files):
21:14 dalek parrot: Remove the buffer flags used to tag the low bits of the pool pointer. They are irrelevant if we aren't sharing buffers anymore.
21:14 dalek parrot: review: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/48372/
21:15 darbelo Okay. Now it's benchmarking time. I'll take suggestions from the audiemce.
21:17 lucian joined #parrot
21:20 bacek Good morning, humans.
21:20 bacek darbelo, pong
21:21 cotto_work good morning, baceks
21:21 darbelo bacek: I'm experimenting with 'unsharing' string buffers. It works now, but I wanted to know if there's any optimizations that would enable.
21:22 bacek darbelo, "precise" buffer compacting at least.
21:22 sorear darbelo: you can probably use your increased simplicity to make compact_pool less stupid
21:22 darbelo I removed strstart from the string header, and the 'shared' and 'moved' buffer flags so far.
21:22 sorear interning would also be pretty spiffy
21:23 darbelo bacek: What do you mean 'precise'?
21:24 bacek darbelo, currently we can't tell if previously shared buffer isn't used anymore.
21:26 bacek darbelo, check C<free_buffer> in src/gc/mark_sweep.c
21:26 bacek /* We can have shared buffers. Don't count them (yet) */
21:27 bacek if (!(*buffer_flags & Buffer_shared_FLAG)) {
21:27 bacek block->freed  += ALIGNED_STRING_SIZE(Buffer_buflen(b));
21:27 bacek }
21:27 darbelo Right, I already removed that :)
21:28 bacek I hope you just removed "if", but left "block->freed += ..." :)
21:28 darbelo Well, yeah.
21:29 nopaste "darbelo" at 192.168.1.3 pasted "free_buffer" (29 lines) at http://nopaste.snit.ch/22653
21:29 bacek darbelo, leftover comment is wrong :)
21:30 darbelo I was wondering about "XXX Jarkko reported that on irix pool->mem_pool was NULL" too.
21:30 bacek How differ examples/benchmarks/stress_strings.pir between branch and trunk?
21:30 bacek (In terms of performance)
21:31 darbelo Haven't finished callgrinding it. My linux box isn't all that fast.
21:32 bacek wallclock should be good enough for initial benchmarking
21:32 Coke joined #parrot
21:34 darbelo Given the way callgrind's hogging the cpu, I doubt wallclock will be very useful right now :)
21:36 bacek callgrind is 10-100 times slower than raw speed :)
21:42 nopaste "darbelo" at 192.168.1.3 pasted "Lots of meaningless numbers!" (35 lines) at http://nopaste.snit.ch/22654
21:42 Paul_the_Greek joined #parrot
21:43 bacek purl, (23588786662 - 21159680036) / 23588786662 * 100
21:43 purl 10.2977175587973
21:43 bacek 10%. Looks about all right :)
21:44 bacek Real world test - wallclock for rakudo compilation.
21:44 darbelo And peak memory usage.
21:44 bacek yes.
21:45 bacek I suspect it will be _lower_ due precise compacting and lots of short-lived substrings.
21:45 bacek darbelo++ # good job!
21:45 darbelo I'll get on that. Do you have any recomendations for good measuring of parrot memory usage?
21:46 bacek darbelo, no, sorry. I use top usually.
21:48 sorear darbelo: the Great Language Shootout has a tool
21:48 bacek afk # get ready for $dayjob
21:50 sorear darbelo: /usr/bin/free can report peak memory usage exactly.  This doesn't work on Linux, but if you should happen to have a BSD or OSX VM lying around, you could use that
21:51 Paul_the_Greek Is there a way to get make to run one specific test?
21:52 cotto_work you can run them manually with prove
21:53 cotto_work there are also makefile targets to run a subset of the full test suite
21:59 Paul_the_Greek Wow. How come I can enter 'prove' in my top-level parrot directory?
22:01 darbelo It's already installed, prove comes with perl.
22:01 Paul_the_Greek Oh.
22:01 Paul_the_Greek Silly me.
22:03 Paul_the_Greek Okay, here's a question: How do we determine whether PARROT_INTVAL_MIN needs to be handled specially?
22:03 Paul_the_Greek See if -PARROT_INTVAL_MAX != PARROT_INTVAL_MIN ?
22:04 bubaflub Paul_the_Greek: not totally sure if this helps, but those values are determined at configuration time
22:05 Paul_the_Greek Yes, but what we don't know is whether it's a two's-complement machine.
22:05 bubaflub Paul_the_Greek: ah, i see what you're saying
22:05 bubaflub i'm not sure if or how we test for that
22:05 bubaflub someone more knowledgable about the configuration system will have to answer that one
22:07 Paul_the_Greek Looking around ...
22:10 Chandon What machine isn't two's complement, anyway?
22:10 Paul_the_Greek It doesn't appear that we know if it's a two's-complement machine.
22:10 Paul_the_Greek These days? ... hmm ... let me see.
22:14 Paul_the_Greek CDC Cyber 170. Probably none running now.
22:15 Paul_the_Greek I could add an assertion somewhere that -PARROT_INTVAL_MAX != PARROT_INTVAL_MIN.
22:24 sorear Paul_the_Greek: Perl 5 requires a twos complement machine or else the SvIV -> SvNV failover code will break horribly
22:25 sorear Paul_the_Greek: therefore, Configure.pl can automatically assume twos complement
22:25 sorear also, Perl 5 assumes CHAR_BIT == 8
22:25 Paul_the_Greek Okay, so we'll assume that. I'm trying out an assertion for it in config.h
22:26 sorear the weirdest machines Perl 5 supports, CPU wise, are ones where sizeof(short) == 8 (Cray) or sizeof(double) <= sizeof(void*) (Alpha)
22:27 Paul_the_Greek Glad I'm working on the Memory_Block allocation problem, then.
22:28 sorear ?
22:30 Paul_the_Greek Hang on ...
22:30 Paul_the_Greek This one: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/ticket/1731
22:30 Paul_the_Greek Wait a minute, how big are doubles and pointers on the Alpha?
22:32 sorear both 64 bits
22:32 Paul_the_Greek Oh, I missed the = in <=
22:32 sorear I don't see the issue with #1731
22:32 sorear it doesn't sound broken to me
22:33 Paul_the_Greek The allocation of space in a Memory_Block assumes that the alignment of the memory space should be exactly the size of a pointer.
22:33 Paul_the_Greek That is, it assumes that in some places and explicitly does not assume it in others.
22:34 Paul_the_Greek This is not a problem now because no one requests an alignment other than on a pointer boundary.
22:38 kid51 joined #parrot
22:40 kid51 msg mikehh When you get a chance, comment sought on http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/ticket/1726.
22:40 purl Message for mikehh stored.
22:42 Austin_away Effing W00t! Kakapo full loads and runs p6object bootstrap tests!
22:42 * Austin ++
22:44 whiteknight Austin: !!!
22:44 Austin Whiteknight!!!
22:44 purl whiteknight is, like, mailto:wknight8111@gmail.com or the grand master funk or http://wknight8111.blogspot.com/
22:44 mikehh kid51: looking at it now
22:44 whiteknight Austin: Which branch, yours on gitorious?
22:44 Austin Mine on my local hdd
22:44 whiteknight push that shit! I needs to get me some
22:44 Austin Heh
22:47 aloha joined #parrot
22:47 bacek joined #parrot
22:48 tcurtis aloha, bacek.
22:50 Austin whiteknight: push failed. non fast-forward merge
22:50 Austin :(
22:51 Paul_the_Greek So is config.h the correct place to test for two's-complement-ness?
22:54 Austin Mandatory restart cause by git upgrade...
22:54 Austin biab
22:54 * cotto_work wonders
22:56 aloha joined #parrot
22:56 whiteknight Austin: you're breaking my heart
22:57 sorear Paul_the_Greek: you would be wise to be very careful about fixing things that aren't completely broken
22:57 Paul_the_Greek True.
22:58 Paul_the_Greek I'm about to fix the negate and absolute Integer operations, which are broken.
22:58 Paul_the_Greek The fix only works on a two's-complement machine, so I figure it makes sense to check for that.
22:58 sorear Define broken
22:59 bacek joined #parrot
22:59 Paul_the_Greek The negative/absolute value of the minimum integer value do not work.
22:59 Paul_the_Greek http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/ticket/1245
23:01 sorear you'll need to run a deprecation cycle for that and wait until after 2.9 to merge your changes
23:04 particle we're pretty much assuming 2's complement, since we purport to follow IEEE 754
23:05 Paul_the_Greek Oh my. Is this sort of bug something we have to deprecate?
23:05 particle which stores floats as 2's compliment.
23:05 Paul_the_Greek Right, and also because Perl assumes it, apparently.
23:05 particle yes, and perl's pretty portable.
23:05 Paul_the_Greek I just figure it makes sense to check the assumption. No?
23:06 sorear Yes, but please #error if it's not met
23:06 particle where are you checking, in config?
23:06 sorear Also, do it in Configure.pl
23:06 sorear NOT C
23:06 sorear Our builds are slow enough already
23:06 particle the check should be during the configure stage, and set a value that can be looked up from c, perl, pir, etc
23:07 particle it's a simple probe, probably added to an existing config step
23:07 Paul_the_Greek Okay, in configure.pl, not in config.h.
23:08 Paul_the_Greek More on this deprecation requirement: Why do you think this is something that must be deprecated?
23:11 * Coke ROTFLS at the parrot appropriate: http://twitter.com/rjbs/status/20721483991
23:13 Coke sorear: if it's /a bug/, we don't need a deprecation cycle.
23:13 sorear Paul_the_Greek: Also, you still haven't said exactly what you plan to change it *to*
23:13 Paul_the_Greek Since Integers are supposed to promote to Bigints, I think this is a bug.
23:14 Paul_the_Greek Negating or absoluting the minimum integer should produce a Bigint.
23:14 cotto_work I thought we didn't want Parrot doing autopromoting.
23:14 cotto_work leave it to the hlls
23:14 Paul_the_Greek It does for addition and such.
23:14 Paul_the_Greek Ah, actually, it's conditionalized. Perhaps it's set to simply raise overflow.
23:15 cotto_work consistency, your name is not parrot
23:15 Paul_the_Greek I be attempting to introduce consistency.
23:15 Paul_the_Greek The operations on native integers do not to any promoting.
23:16 sorear all young project members think they can introduce consistency
23:16 sorear they all go mad
23:16 Austin joined #parrot
23:17 Paul_the_Greek I take it one ticket at a time. Otherwise y'all would kick me out the door in a flash.
23:17 Coke sorear: please don't scary away the new guys. Thanks.
23:18 whiteknight Austin: you're breaking my heart
23:19 Austin ??
23:21 whiteknight Austin: I'm waiting for Kakapo goodness!!!
23:23 Austin Yeah.
23:23 Austin Hold that thought.
23:29 Austin Just a few conflicts...
23:29 kid51 Paul_the_Greek:  Let me provide a bit of historical background on http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/ticket/1245
23:30 Paul_the_Greek Appreciated.
23:30 Andy joined #parrot
23:30 kid51 About 3 years ago, Paul Cochrane wrote a program which transformed all TODO, XXX, etc. comments in the source code into tickets in RT, which was then our bug tracking system.
23:30 cotto_work not a great idea, btw
23:31 kid51 About 2 years ago, we began working in Trac, and eventually we moved all remaining unresolved RTs into TTs.
23:31 kid51 So the TODO comment has been sitting there since pre-2007 ... possibly 3-5 years before that!
23:32 kid51 And we probably cannot determine who made the TODO comment in the first place.
23:32 kid51 So we can't query the OP.
23:32 kid51 And we have survived with this TODO item for several years.
23:32 Chandon How is this particular issue not just "not a bug, that's how integers work"?
23:32 kid51 So the TODO may be valid ... or it may be completely off the wall.
23:33 kid51 So, if you are going to take the TT, you will need to independently confirm whether the TODO is valid or not.
23:34 kid51 I am very glad to see you taking these old tickets.
23:34 cotto_work What do you mean "And we probably cannot determine who made the TODO comment in the first place."?  Isn't that what vcs is for?
23:34 Paul_the_Greek Hang on one sec ...
23:34 kid51 I simply caution that they may be murkier than they first appear.
23:34 kid51 Some of these TODOs have been in the code since we kept it in CVS.
23:35 cotto_work oh
23:35 Paul_the_Greek I looked at things like add for Integer PMCs and it promotes to BigInt.
23:35 mikehh kid51: ran the test with prove -v in the branch - looks good to me
23:35 Paul_the_Greek If add does it, then negate and absolute should, too, I believe.
23:36 kid51 cotto_work When I was involved in converting RTs to TTs, I tried to locate the source of the TODO ... (well, some of the time).
23:36 kid51 Some times I was successful; sometimes not.
23:36 Paul_the_Greek Or it overflows, dpending on PARROT_ERRORS_OVERFLOW_FLAG.
23:36 kid51 Paul_the_Greek: Just attach any patch to the TT so that everyone who had a shot at this issue over the years can comment.
23:37 Paul_the_Greek I certainly will.
23:37 * kid51 makes no claim to understand the specific issue
23:37 Paul_the_Greek I will also add tests for it.
23:37 kid51 mikehh:  Do you think we can discontinue the "needs POD" output in make headerizer?
23:37 kid51 Tests! Paul_the_Greek++
23:38 Coke note that all the CVS commits are in the svn repository as well.
23:38 kid51 If you need to manipulate any of the configuration steps, I am available for consultation.
23:38 Chandon Where does interp->current_runloop_id get incremented?
23:39 kid51 Coke:  True, but to dig back that far you usually have to svn cat -r {some old revision} of the file in which the TODO occurs ... and then do an 'svn blame' on that.
23:39 kid51 High work/benefit ratio, IMO
23:40 kid51 A job for a cage cleaner.
23:40 kid51 Oh, wait, I *am* a cage cleaner.
23:40 dngor joined #parrot
23:40 Chandon Ha! Found it. Obviously the variable needed a different name just for that line of code.
23:44 davidfetter joined #parrot
23:46 Paul_the_Greek I'm getting the feeling that there is a little bit of black art in writing tests.
23:47 davidfetter o/` more than a feeling o/`
23:48 mikehh kid51: certainly for PMC files if we have that test, I am not sure what we should do about the compilers/imcc/imcc.y and compilers/pirc/src/*.c files
23:48 Paul_the_Greek What does 'No plan found in TAP output' mean?
23:49 mikehh Paul_the_Greek: generally that the test fialed before it set the plan
23:49 Paul_the_Greek And "set the plan" means?
23:49 sorear plan 5; if you're using a Test module
23:49 sorear otherwise print "1..5\n"
23:49 Paul_the_Greek Maybe I should read documentation on TAP.
23:50 whiteknight Chandon: you found interp->current_runloop_id?
23:50 sorear Paul_the_Greek: a TAP test script prints 1..2\nok 1\n ok 2
23:50 sorear Paul_the_Greek: any deviation from that format = test failure
23:50 Chandon whiteknight: Every instance of it, none of which were the increment. But I found that too so it's all good.
23:50 Paul_the_Greek Oh.
23:50 workbench joined #parrot
23:51 mikehh Paul_the_Greek: in our TAP we usually set the number of tests to run, using the plan() function or tell it there is no plan, the message comes if the test did get that far
23:51 sorear there is a lot of legalese in the TAP spec, but the principle is extremely simple
23:51 Paul_the_Greek Right, I see the plan() count. The trick is to get the output formatted correctly.
23:51 kid51 Paul_the_Greek:  For tests written in Perl 5:  perldoc Test::More
23:52 Paul_the_Greek It's in PIR. I presume is(...) generates the correct output?
23:52 sorear For tests not written in Perl 5, perldoc Test::More anyway, because its API is what everything else emulates
23:53 sorear ok($bool) = print ($bool ? "" : "not ") . "ok " . ($testnum++) . "\n";
23:53 sorear is($x,$y) = ok($x == $y)
23:53 kid51 mikehh:  Well, as far as "compilers/pirc/src/*.c files" to, I guess we have the larger question:  What are we going to do about PIRC?
23:54 kid51 And since imcc.y is one of those Melvin Smith files, we face a similar problem there.
23:55 sorear Melvin Smith?
23:55 kid51 i.e., whether 'make headerizer' tells us something about those files' POD is not a big worry.
23:55 mikehh kid51: not sure, we have the problem that kjs++ stopped working on it and seems to have had a very low bus number
23:55 kid51 mikehh:  Yes, exactly.
23:56 mikehh kid51: also we have new ideas in terms of pir/PIRATE etc
23:56 kid51 If the code is, for the time being, abandoned, we shouldn't worry too much about how thorough its POD is.
23:56 kid51 I'd rather focus on writing POD for those .pmc files.
23:57 kid51 In fact, what I thought I would do is to (i), put the =item entries where they should be, even without real documentation ...
23:57 mikehh kid51: exactly, but we should retain the facility to test it if it proves necessary at some stage
23:57 kid51 ... which would move them from 'missing' to 'boilerplate'
23:58 kid51 mikehh:  Okay,  so in the branch I'll cut out the message to terminal except for the non-.pmc files.
23:59 kid51 ... and then I would, ermm, seek assistance in getting real information into those =item sections.
23:59 mikehh kid51: I think that is valid, certainly for me, haven't heard any other comments there
23:59 Psyche^ joined #parrot

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