Camelia, the Perl 6 bug

IRC log for #parrot, 2010-10-11

Parrot | source cross referenced

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Time Nick Message
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00:47 bacek_at_work ~~
00:47 cotto ~~
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02:11 dukeleto hola
02:17 kid51 duke fyi I got the same errors in mk_language_shell.t on Darwin/PPC
02:18 dukeleto kid51: which errors?
02:19 dukeleto kid51: are you using --prefix ?
02:19 kid51 the FAILs
02:19 kid51 no, not using --prefix
02:20 dukeleto kid51: have you done a recent smoke report? some better diagnostics have been added to the tests
02:22 nopaste "kid51" at 192.168.1.3 pasted "mk_language_shell.t still has two FAILs (but better diagnostics)" (26 lines) at http://nopaste.snit.ch/24241
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02:26 dukeleto kid51: can you paste the actual output of the commands that those tests are running?
02:27 dukeleto kid51: perl mk_language_shell.pl test_lang; cd test_lang; parrot setup.pir build; parrot setup.pir test
02:27 dukeleto kid51: the output of that on your machine would be very helpful
02:29 dukeleto kid51: i am smoking it on my darwinppc box now, which uses --prefix. Let's see what happens
02:30 dukeleto kid51: the parrot you run in the above command should be the currently compiled one, not the system parrot, if it exists
02:30 kid51 bash: cd: test_lang: No such file or directory
02:30 dukeleto kid51: something to watch out for
02:31 dukeleto kid51: what did the output of mk_language_shell say? it is supposed to create that directory
02:31 dukeleto kid51: your test report says it creates the directory, but the building + testing fails
02:33 kid51 What directory is mk_language_shell.pl in?
02:34 dukeleto kid51: tools/dev
02:35 dukeleto kid51: perl tools/dev/mk_language_shell.pl test_lang; cd test_lang; parrot setup.pir build; parrot setup.pir test
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02:38 nopaste "kid51" at 192.168.1.3 pasted "tools/dev/mk_language_shell.pl" (28 lines) at http://nopaste.snit.ch/24243
02:40 dukeleto kid51: you have an installed parrot
02:40 dukeleto PackFile_unpack: This Parrot cannot read bytecode files with version 5.4.
02:40 dukeleto kid51: that means it is finding an old version of parrot
02:41 dukeleto kid51: what happens when you do "which parrot" ?
02:41 dukeleto kid51: i just reported a PASS on darwinppc on smolder
02:42 dukeleto kid51: i will see if I can tweak the test so that it won't find installed parrots
02:43 nopaste "kid51" at 192.168.1.3 pasted "Output (from Linux/i386) once I've accounted for the cd" (37 lines) at http://nopaste.snit.ch/24245
02:43 dukeleto kid51: hmmm. do you have an installed parrot in the build dir ?
02:45 dukeleto kid51: that paste is very interesting. You should add it to the TT
02:46 kid51 no installed parrots
02:46 kid51 bbl
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02:52 dukeleto Looks like making a new language depends on install_config.o being around, which isn't built unless "make install" is called
02:52 dukeleto All my machines install into the build dir before testing, so it doesn't happen on them.
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04:14 kid51 dukeleto:  That sounds like a good diagnosis.
04:14 kid51 But no tests run during 'make test' should depend on a parrot having been installed anywhere.
04:29 kid51 Created TT #1823 for this.
04:35 dukeleto kid51: these are special kinds of tests
04:35 dukeleto kid51: i am thinking these tests should have a special make target
04:35 dukeleto kid51: that has a dependency on install_config.o or whatever it is
04:36 dukeleto kid51: creating languages currently requires an installed parrot. I am not sure how to get around that, but asking on parrot-dev could be useful
04:36 dukeleto kid51: it is possible we can create that .o file without running install, and then maybe it will work. Or fail for a different reason anyway
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04:38 kid51 I have a feeling that if we are going to include code in the repo that is only intended to be run post-install, then both that code and its associated tests ought to go into special directories.
04:38 kid51 e.g. tools/postinstall/, t/postinstall/
04:39 kid51 "creating languages currently requires an installed parrot. I am not sure how to get around that," -- but why would we want to get around that?  That seems quite plausible.
04:50 dukeleto kid51: no, I don't think it is plausible. It is a limitation.
04:50 dukeleto kid51: creating special directories means the tests will never get run
04:51 dukeleto kid51: it should either be fixed to Do The Right Thing, or have a special make target.
04:51 kid51 dukeleto: agreed, but that doesn't rule out the existence of special directories.
04:52 kid51 Not too long ago, I had a ticket that repositioned quite a few programs under tools/
04:52 kid51 ... hoping to get more logical groupings.
04:53 kid51 In fact, constructing special 'make' targets is probably easier when all the important code is grouped in special locations.
04:53 bacek_at_work dukeleto, make src/install_config.o
04:54 dukeleto bacek_at_work: thanks. it looks to be a single compilation directive
04:54 dukeleto bacek_at_work: any reason not to make that part of the normal build process?
04:54 kid51 dukeleto: I can confirm that if (a) I configure with a --prefix=/somedir and (b) call 'make install', mk_language_shell.t will PASS
04:55 dukeleto kid51: yes, it all comes down to making sure src/install_config.o is there before you run those tests
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04:55 dukeleto kid51: we can create the object file without installing
04:56 dukeleto kid51: are there any guidelines for adding new make targets?
04:57 kid51 dukeleto: No.
04:57 dukeleto kid51: we have some options : the tests can see if install_config.o exists, and SKIP if it doesn't. Or we can make install_config.o get created in a normal build.
04:57 dukeleto kid51: do you have a preference?
04:57 dukeleto bacek_at_work: do you have a pref for always creating isntall_config.o vs. making the tests SKIP if it doesn't exist?
04:58 kid51 dukeleto: my preference is to SKIP
04:58 dukeleto kid51: any reason why?
04:59 kid51 Because it's starting to sound like we're creating install_config.o *solely* for the purpose of getting these tests to pass.
04:59 kid51 smells bass-ackwards.
05:00 dukeleto kid51: no, it would be so that mk_language_shell and create_language could be used without installing parrot
05:00 kid51 Adding the SKIP allows you -- who always install -- to get the PASSes you want ...
05:00 dukeleto kid51: the tests passing is a consequence of that
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05:01 dukeleto kid51: always creating install_config.o makes it so that our tools work without installing parrot. SKIPPing means keeping the requirement that parrot be installed to create a HLL
05:01 dukeleto do we want that limitation, even if it is easy to fix?
05:01 bacek_at_work I vote for always build installed_config.o
05:02 kid51 But does it make sense for *these two tools* to be able to work in the absence of an installed parrot?
05:03 dukeleto kid51: yes, because all the other tools don't require an installed parrot. They are the odd ones out.
05:03 bacek_at_work kid51, erm. Why not?
05:03 dukeleto this limitation only exists for these two scripts
05:03 dukeleto kid51: consistency guides us to make them work on un-installed parrots
05:03 kid51 Understand, I don't have a hard-and-fast opinion here.
05:04 kid51 I'm trying to play devil's advocate.
05:05 kid51 I can see an argument being made:  All the scripts in tools/dev/ function "pre-parrot".
05:05 kid51 These tools sound more like "post-parrot".
05:05 dukeleto kid51: devil's advocate is useful :)
05:06 kid51 I have never used any of the language creation programs myself.
05:06 kid51 But it seems to me that you wouldn't use them unless and until you've already got a parrot executable.
05:07 kid51 In which case, *testing* these programs can plausibly deferred to a post-"make install" time.
05:09 kid51 Under what circumstances would a language implementor want to run those programs in the absence of an installed parrot?
05:10 dukeleto kid51: needing to install parrot to run those 2 scripts is an arbitrary limitation
05:10 kid51 dukeleto: That doesn't answer my question.
05:11 dukeleto kid51: i want to create a new HLL without installing parrot. That is the use case.
05:11 kid51 In fact, it's *not* an arbitrary limitation if there is no point in running them before parrot is installed.
05:12 dukeleto kid51: there is no point in requring an installed parrot. The burden of proof lies on needing to install, since no other tool requires it.
05:12 kid51 dukeleto: Well, as I said, I've never created an HLL either before or after install.
05:12 kid51 It's just that I can only imagine doing it after install.
05:13 kid51 But why don't you (a) post in the ticket; (b) raise on #parrotsketch
05:13 dukeleto kid51: i have wanted to do it without installing, but it doesn't work, because of this exact problem
05:13 dukeleto bacek_at_work: what it the best way to make sure install_config.o gets created in a normal make ?
05:14 dukeleto bacek_at_work: i have considered adding it to O_FILES, but then it gets added to the static and dynamic libs, which seems unnecessary.
05:14 bacek_at_work dukeleto, I'm not an expert in our makefiles. Add to "all" target somewhere in config/gen/makefiles/root.in
05:17 kid51 dukeleto: This adds one more file to be installed.  But didn't someone on parrot-dev today say, "+1 to lightening our load, so we can deploy to embedded/mobile devices"?
05:17 kid51 Hey, that was ... you!
05:18 dukeleto kid51: .o files don't get installed
05:19 kid51 What happens to them?  What are they for, then?
05:21 dukeleto kid51: they are object files, used in linking
05:21 dukeleto kid51: actually, they are used in compilation
05:21 dukeleto kid51: you can compile N *.c files into *.o files, then compile them all together later
05:22 dukeleto kid51: they are kind of like temporary storage for the compiler
05:22 dukeleto kid51: the stage between source and executable
05:22 dukeleto kid51: they never get installed
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05:23 kid51 Well, I recommend posting in the TT.
05:23 bacek_at_work dukeleto, we shouldn't add installed_config.o to O_FILES. Just independent target.
05:24 dukeleto bacek_at_work: yes, i agree.
05:26 kid51 dukeleto: My preference for you right now would be to SKIP those tests, post in the TT, solicit comment for a few days, then implement the change in make targets and remove the SKIPs.
05:27 kid51 That way, you've argued your case in the appropriate venue, given people an opportunity to comment, and implemented your plan per the case you argued.
05:28 dukeleto kid51: that seems like a lot of extra work
05:28 dukeleto kid51: like i said, the burden of proof lies in the other direction
05:29 kid51 dukeleto: I disagree.
05:30 kid51 Until recently, no one cared (afaict) where those tools worked in the absence of installed parrot or not.
05:31 kid51 You're the one who's saying "They should work in absence of installed parrot."
05:31 kid51 "And to do so, we have to change config/gen/makefiles/root.in"
05:31 dukeleto kid51: well, I did. So did cotto++. That is why we wrote tests for them.
05:31 kid51 Where did you make that case?
05:32 dukeleto kid51: is there a moratoriam on changing that file? Do I have to sing a special song? I don't understand the ceremony.
05:32 kid51 I may not have seen it.
05:32 dukeleto kid51: i meant that we cared that the tools *worked at all*
05:36 dukeleto what exactly is your concern with what could go wrong?
05:37 kid51 I don't have specific concerns.  I simply think it's a good idea to give other people notice when you're making a change.
05:38 dukeleto kid51: if i thought anybody would even notice or care, I would. But I think this is just going to make something work and most people won't even notice.
05:38 kid51 Go ahead, then.
05:39 dukeleto it hath slithered into the intertubes.
05:44 dukeleto kid51: please svn up and confirm that the latest commit fixes this issue
05:44 dukeleto kid51: i am running the test on a non-installed parrot on darwinppc now
05:46 dukeleto kid51: one thing to learn about this: Most smoke reports from users will be from non-installed parrots, since that is what our wiki says
05:46 dukeleto kid51: if we want people to smoke with installed parrots, we need to update the wiki
05:47 dalek parrot: r49502 | dukeleto++ | trunk/config/gen/makefiles/root.in:
05:47 dalek parrot: [t][TT#1823] Always create src/install_config.o, so that mk_language_shell and create_language can be used without installing Parrot
05:47 dalek parrot: review: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/49502/
05:50 dukeleto I just got some very good news for Parrot + Perl 6.
05:51 kid51 dukeleto: Confirmed on linux/i386.  I don't think this was an OS issue, but the verification on Darwin will take longer
05:52 kid51 dukeleto: Yes, I think we've always assumed that smokes are from non-installed.
05:52 dukeleto kid51: i am about to submit a smoke report from darwinppc
05:52 kid51 After all, 'smoke' is just an extension to 'test' ... and 'test' does not depend on 'install'
05:53 dukeleto kid51: yes. I learned to install from the build dir from chromatic++. It is useful if you want to tell Rakudo to use a specific version of parrot, but you don't want to install it system-wide
05:54 dukeleto kid51: http://smolder.parrot.org/app​/projects/report_details/538 PASS from darwinpcc un-installed parrot
05:54 dukeleto kid51: i will give you the pleasure of closing the ticket
05:54 kid51 http://smolder.parrot.org/app​/projects/report_details/537 was mine from linux
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06:30 dukeleto anybody know anything about buildbot?
06:30 bacek_at_work is it still alive?
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06:31 bacek_at_work aloha, taptinder?
06:31 aloha bacek_at_work: I give up.
06:31 dukeleto bacek_at_work: yep. lots of peeps seem to use it. I am thinking Parrot should to.
06:32 bacek_at_work aloha, taptinder is continues integration tool - http://taptinder.org . For Parrot project running on http://tt.taptinder.org/ and reporting build failures to #parrot channel as ttbot.
06:32 aloha bacek_at_work: Okay.
06:32 dukeleto taptinder?
06:32 dukeleto aloha, taptinder?
06:32 aloha dukeleto: taptinder is continues integration tool - http://taptinder.org . For Parrot project running on http://tt.taptinder.org/ and reporting build failures to #parrot channel as ttbot.
06:32 bacek_at_work aloha, ttbot?
06:32 aloha bacek_at_work: Dunno.
06:32 bacek_at_work aloha, ttbot is see taptinder
06:32 aloha bacek_at_work: Okay.
06:32 bacek_at_work aloha, ttbot?
06:32 aloha bacek_at_work: ttbot is see taptinder
06:33 bacek_at_work seen mj41
06:33 aloha mj41 was last seen in #perl6 2 days 11 hours ago joining the channel.
06:33 dalek parrot: r49503 | dukeleto++ | trunk/NEWS:
06:33 dalek parrot: [doc] Add note to NEWS about scripts no longer requiring an installed parrot
06:33 dalek parrot: review: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/49503/
06:33 bacek_at_work aloha, msg mj41 looks like taptinder is down...
06:33 aloha bacek_at_work: OK. I'll deliver the message.
06:36 dukeleto aloha, coverage is http://cv.perl6.cz or http://tapir2.ro.vutbr.cz/cover/cover-results/
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06:36 aloha dukeleto: Okay.
06:37 dukeleto bacek_at_work: i can get to TapTinder
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06:43 bacek_at_work dukeleto, hmm... Looks like Chrome is less permissive in HTTP protocol errors
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06:44 bacek_at_work msg mj41 TapTinder sends duplicated Content-Length headers. It confuses Google Chrome (at least)
06:44 aloha OK. I'll deliver the message.
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08:11 bacek ~~
08:15 Tene !!
08:15 bacek ??
08:20 moritz rakudo: say True ?? "yes" !! "no"
08:20 p6eval rakudo 5bdbd4: OUTPUT«yes␤»
08:20 moritz rakudo: say  True  ~~ 1 ?? "yes" !! "no"
08:20 p6eval rakudo 5bdbd4: OUTPUT«yes␤»
08:20 moritz now all three operators are in :-)
08:21 dalek parrot: r49504 | bacek++ | branches/generational_gc/lib/Parrot/Vtable.pm:
08:21 dalek parrot: Add VTABLE_IS_WRITE_BARRIER_FLAG.
08:21 dalek parrot: review: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/49504/
08:21 dalek parrot: r49505 | bacek++ | branches/generational_gc (2 files):
08:21 dalek parrot: Add VTABLE_IS_WRITE_BARRIER_FLAG to avoid wrong sealing of already
08:21 dalek parrot: sealed objects.
08:21 dalek parrot: review: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/49505/
08:21 dalek parrot: r49506 | bacek++ | branches/generational_gc/src/gc/gc_ms2.c:
08:21 dalek parrot: Add couple of functions for debugging purpose.
08:21 dalek parrot: review: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/49506/
08:21 dalek parrot: r49507 | bacek++ | branches/generational_gc/src/gc/gc_ms2.c:
08:21 dalek parrot: Avoid propagating already propagated objects.
08:21 dalek parrot: review: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/49507/
08:21 dalek parrot: r49508 | bacek++ | branches/generational_gc/src/gc/gc_ms2.c:
08:21 dalek parrot: sweep pool in separate phase
08:21 dalek parrot: review: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/49508/
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09:07 dalek parrot: r49509 | bacek++ | branches/generational_gc/src/string/api.c:
09:07 dalek parrot: Hack string api to clear gengc flags for new strings.
09:07 dalek parrot: review: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/49509/
09:07 dalek parrot: r49510 | bacek++ | branches/generational_gc/src/gc/gc_ms2.c:
09:07 dalek parrot: "Remark" objects from current generation during propagate. We do need to
09:07 dalek parrot: bring all related objects into current generation.
09:07 dalek parrot: review: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/49510/
09:07 dalek parrot: r49511 | bacek++ | branches/generational_gc/src/gc/gc_ms2.c:
09:07 dalek parrot: Special handling for oldest generation.
09:07 dalek parrot: review: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/49511/
09:07 dalek parrot: r49512 | bacek++ | branches/generational_gc/src/gc/gc_ms2.c:
09:07 dalek parrot: Temporary turn on dumb mode for propagating objects
09:07 dalek parrot: review: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/49512/
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10:17 mikehh All tests PASS (pre/post-config, make corevm/make coretest, smoke (#542) fulltest) at r49512 - Kubuntu 10.10 RC amd64 (g++-4.5)
10:18 mikehh ha, it's no longer the RC
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17:51 dukeleto aloha, msg darbelo can you tell me why the String.reverse VTABLE was removed?
17:51 aloha dukeleto: OK. I'll deliver the message.
17:57 dukeleto Does anybody know why String.reverse was removed in r46290 ?
18:01 dukeleto It seems to have been part of the "immutable strings" stuff, but why not make reverse return a reversed copy?
18:01 dukeleto are people supposed to use a StringBuilder now?
18:05 dukeleto that doesn't have reverse either. But StringIterator looks like it can go in reverse.
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18:50 dalek parrot: r49513 | nwellnhof++ | trunk (17 files):
18:50 dalek parrot: [t] Convert most unicode:"" string literals to utf8:""
18:50 dalek parrot: review: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/49513/
18:54 cotto ~~
18:55 dukeleto hola
18:55 dukeleto cotto: how goes it up there?
18:55 * dukeleto doesn't get to say "up there" to many people ;)
18:56 cotto It's a good day.
18:56 cotto except that one of Rakudo's tests has been taking way too long to run
18:57 dukeleto cotto: I keep running into tests that go in ifinite loops. In multiple projects. It is that kind of week.
18:58 cotto fun
18:58 M_o_C left #parrot
19:00 dukeleto cotto: in other news, I got access to a compile farm for Parrot.
19:00 M_o_C joined #parrot
19:00 cotto dukeleto, v. nice
19:02 dukeleto cotto: this is a passing smolder_coretest from a PlayStation 3 : http://smolder.parrot.org/app​/projects/report_details/540
19:02 dukeleto cotto: sadly, the full test suite goes into an infinite loop. Yay, bugs!
19:02 cotto what's in the farm?
19:03 dukeleto cotto: it is the GCC Compile Farm : http://gcc.gnu.org/wiki/CompileFarm
19:03 dukeleto cotto: lots of x86 with some sparc, arm and mips thrown in
19:04 dukeleto cotto: i want to setup taptinder and/or buildbot on them
19:05 cotto Wow.  Nice job.
19:05 cotto How'd you manage that?
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19:06 dalek parrot: r49514 | nwellnhof++ | trunk/src (2 files):
19:06 dalek parrot: [src] Show string encoding in pbc_dump and pbc_disassemble
19:06 dalek parrot: review: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/49514/
19:07 dukeleto cotto: It was extremely complicated. I asked for an account.
19:08 dukeleto aloha, msg nwellnhof tests for r49514 would grealy be appreciated
19:08 aloha dukeleto: OK. I'll deliver the message.
19:09 cotto That's all?  I'd think they'd be pretty selective about allowing access to a wide variety of hardware like that.
19:11 dukeleto cotto: I had to prove that I was a contributor to Parrot and Perl 6, so I guess that was the hard part :)
19:12 dukeleto Who has access to modify trac.ini for trac.parrot.org ?
19:12 dukeleto I would like to add TapTinder to the top navbar, similar to what is described here: http://buildbot.net/trac/wiki/BuildbotAndTrac
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19:12 cotto If Coke can't do it, it'll probably require osuosl
19:13 cotto Having the navadd plugin will make adding a github link too.
19:13 dukeleto Yes, we need that too.
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19:13 dukeleto Trac needs to integrate better with all our tools
19:21 dukeleto Looks like we have a failure on optimized parrots on darwinppc. A wonderful -0 vs 0 bug
19:22 dukeleto http://smolder.parrot.org/app​/projects/report_details/550
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19:54 * dukeleto bangs some pots and pans. SURE IS QUIET IN HERE.
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20:05 * davidfetter bangs back
20:06 moritz dukeleto++ # GCC build farm
20:06 cotto dukeleto++
20:07 cotto At the very least, we should have a buildbot running on the platforms we list as supported.
20:09 dukeleto cotto: yeah, I don't care whether it is TapTinder or BuildBot, but we should have something running on all of our supported platforms
20:10 dukeleto cotto: i think the farm has every version of gcc ever as well, so it can be useful for running tests the bleading edge of gcc too, if we want
20:10 dukeleto moritz: thanks. Hopefully we can do very cool things with the farm.
20:10 cotto in case andy++ loses interest in that sort of thing
20:16 Andy I'm not interested, other than just disseminating news.
20:16 Andy OH, I see what you mean, bleeding edge GCC
20:16 Andy yeah, and I only futz with it monthly at best.
20:16 cotto yes
20:16 cotto often enough
20:16 Andy When I'm stymied on other projects.
20:17 cotto gcc releases don't happen that often
20:50 bacek joined #parrot
21:02 cotto I see the RTEMS guys are also using the gcc build farm.
21:04 davidfetter left #parrot
21:07 Andy RTEMS?
21:07 Andy ewww!  OS!  OS!
21:08 sorear ewww?
21:08 sorear we had a gsoc for the RTEMS port
21:08 Andy but to work on writing an OS?
21:08 Andy That's so close to the metal!
21:08 Andy I break out!
21:11 brianwisti joined #parrot
21:12 cotto aloha, seen bubaflub
21:12 aloha cotto: Sorry, I haven't seen bubaflub.
21:14 nwellnhof joined #parrot
21:14 nwellnhof dukeleto: ping
21:16 cotto What happened to his effort to get us working with a separate build dir?
21:16 cotto We need to merge that.  It'll go stale pretty quickly.
21:17 cotto Hmm.  I don't see an svn branch.
21:17 cotto I'd hate to lose that work.
21:20 cotto dukeleto, ping
21:24 theory joined #parrot
21:25 davidfetter joined #parrot
21:29 dukeleto cotto: pong
21:29 dukeleto nwellnhof: pong
21:30 dukeleto cotto: he has a github repo for his work
21:30 cotto dukeleto, where does bubaflub's gsoc code live?
21:30 atrodo dukeleto is popular
21:30 dukeleto atrodo: that isn't always a good thing
21:30 nwellnhof dukeleto: i'm about to commit some tests for r49514
21:31 cotto dukeleto++ I don't usually get an answer before I ask the question.
21:31 dukeleto atrodo: what are the next steps for your lorito stuff?
21:31 dukeleto cotto: bubaflub started a new job recently, so I think he has been really busy with that
21:32 cotto chromatic said he had some notes.  I need to get him to put them online somewhere.
21:32 dukeleto cotto: also, we might be able to setup Parrot+RTEMS testing on the gcc compile farm, since RTEMS takes care of the hard work. Could be pretty awesome.
21:32 cotto I was thinking something along those lines.
21:32 dukeleto cotto: i think we need to break bubaflub++'s code into small features that can be added incrementally to core
21:32 cotto sounds tricky
21:33 cotto or it would, if your git-fu weren't as strong as it is ;)
21:33 dukeleto cotto: yes, it is. Some parts could be easy, like adding new configure steps to figure things out, but some features are huge
21:33 dukeleto cotto: i don't mean using his commits, but looking at things in a different way
21:34 dukeleto cotto: Parrot+RTEMS consists of fixing many things in our build system
21:34 atrodo dukeleto> Docs and Tests.  That, and time.  But I squeeze in a little bit when I can
21:34 dukeleto cotto: so I am more aimed at adding a few small features to our config system that will enable having a seperate build dir
21:34 dukeleto cotto: that is the first step to Parrot+RTEMS
21:34 dukeleto cotto: and there is a parrot branch for that
21:34 cotto ok
21:35 bacek left #parrot
21:35 dukeleto cotto: http://github.com/parrot/parrot/comp​are/master...tt1516_builddir_option
21:36 davidfetter left #parrot
21:36 dukeleto cotto: so we need to put the things that bubaflub worked on relating to a builddir into that branch
21:39 cotto From my pov, the next step for Lorito is filling out the gaps in http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/wiki/LoritoRoadmap (and the pages it links to).
21:40 dalek parrot: r49515 | nwellnhof++ | trunk/t/tools (2 files):
21:40 dalek parrot: [t] Add tests for r49514
21:40 dalek parrot: review: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/49515/
21:41 dukeleto cotto: yeah. We need a Lorita migration plan, similar to our GitMigration
21:41 dukeleto nwellnhof++ # yay, tests!
21:42 dukeleto Lorito, even. I guess Lorita is her sister
21:43 brianwisti And now I'm craving Doritos. That can't be good.
21:43 atrodo Doritos made out of Loritos?
21:44 cotto question: What if we're building skynet?
21:44 cotto It's remote, but I think it'd be a good idea to prepare for that possibiliy.
21:44 cotto possibility, even
21:45 brianwisti answer: skynet will probably be nicer than in the movies.
21:45 atrodo and easier to hack
21:45 atrodo or crash
21:45 brianwisti "Hey guys! Let's make another language! Don't make me break out the T-1000's."
21:46 cotto Parrot: a framework for allowing dynamic languages to write themselves
21:47 atrodo That is the logical next step
21:48 dukeleto I think we need more references to Skynet in the Parrot codebase..
21:48 atrodo HCF: Halt, and Catch any possible skynet instance on fire
21:54 bacek joined #parrot
22:06 bacek left #parrot
22:09 cotto Lorito suggestion: use 64-bit values for INSP values in Lorito like Firefox: http://blog.mozilla.com/rob-sayre/2010/08/02/​mozillas-new-javascript-value-representation/
22:14 cotto Hmmm: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Na​rcissus_%28JavaScript_engine%29
22:17 sorear wow, those comments are horrible
22:17 dukeleto cotto: yes, i have looked at it a while ago. Very interesting
22:19 dukeleto cotto: ieee754-2008 actually defines things called "NaN payloads". NaN boxing seems to be a hackish approximation of that
22:27 cotto That idea may be less attractive when we don't expect nearly as many floats as a js engine would.
22:29 sorear That idea is definitely less attractive when we don't need to treat floats and objects interchangably as a js engine must.
22:32 dukeleto LuaJIT uses NaN-boxing, but calls it NaN-tagging: http://article.gmane.org/gman​e.comp.lang.lua.general/58908
22:33 plobsing the idea is less attractive when you can distinguish INSP, sure. but can we, at an HLL level, really make that distinction consistently?
22:34 plobsing does rakudo, for example, use unboxed ints where it can?
22:34 plobsing and can it anywhere?
22:34 plobsing (autopromoting and such)
22:35 cotto Perl 6 allows it but I don't think rakudo implements that part of the spec.
22:36 theory left #parrot
22:36 plobsing Perl 6 allows Int to map to INTVAL? I thought they had to be BigInt
22:37 cotto I think Perl 6 has a native int type.
22:37 brianwisti left #parrot
22:39 cotto the "int" type and other lower-case type names are listed in S02 as being native types
22:41 dukeleto That luaJIT link is full of good ideas.
22:41 plobsing sure. But INTVAL/FLOATVAL registers are not yet sufficient for representing these.
22:41 sorear Perl 6 says that Int is an object type.
22:41 plobsing also, it would be nice if users didn't *have* to use those types just to get decent performance
22:41 * cotto looks and hopes to steal
22:41 preflex left #parrot
22:42 sorear I'm not sure it's possible for us to escape that
22:43 * cotto is thoroughly overloaded
22:45 cotto That's a lot.
23:01 bacek_at_work ~~
23:02 kid51 joined #parrot
23:04 preflex joined #parrot
23:05 cotto hi bacek_at_work
23:05 bacek_at_work aloha, cotto
23:08 kid51 msg dukeleto At r49515 I am not getting the error you are in t/op/number.t on Darwin/PPC -- but I don't configure with --optimize.
23:08 aloha OK. I'll deliver the message.
23:27 nopaste "bluescreen" at 192.168.1.3 pasted "Possible patch for tt1821" (84 lines) at http://nopaste.snit.ch/24296
23:30 bluescreen dukeleto: Could you please take a look at the patch at nopaste?
23:32 kid51 OTOH: I'm getting completely new test failures on Darwin/PPC subsequent to r49513 thru 49515.  See:  http://smolder.parrot.org/app​/projects/report_details/552
23:34 nopaste "kid51" at 192.168.1.3 pasted "pbc_disassemble.t, pbc_dump.t: new failures on Darwin/PPC subsequent to r49513-49515" (56 lines) at http://nopaste.snit.ch/24297
23:35 nwellnhof kid51: seems that some of the tests i added require ICU
23:35 kid51 msg nwellnhof In r49513-49515, have you accounted for systems with no ICU installed?
23:35 aloha OK. I'll deliver the message.
23:36 kid51 Ah, we're thinking simultaneously :-)
23:36 kid51 IIRC we encountered a problem like this about 10 days ago.
23:37 bluescreen kid51: getting failure on the same tests in Linux/i386
23:38 kid51 bluescreen: do you have ICU installed there?  (I'd guess not, but Configure.pl output should clarify)
23:38 bluescreen this is the error 'Parrot VM: Can't stat t/tools/pbc_dump.t.9.pbc, code 2.
23:41 dmalcolm left #parrot
23:58 dalek parrot: r49516 | nwellnhof++ | trunk/t/tools (2 files):
23:58 dalek parrot: [t] Fix new tests with non-ICU builds
23:58 dalek parrot: review: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/49516/

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