Camelia, the Perl 6 bug

IRC log for #parrot, 2010-10-20

Parrot | source cross referenced

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:08 whiteknight go team
00:10 luben joined #parrot
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00:12 cotto whiteknight, nice blog post.
00:13 whiteknight I wrote a blog post?
00:16 cotto on the 14th
00:16 cotto I just now noticed
00:18 whiteknight ah, okay
00:18 whiteknight I have such a backlog of things to post about, and no time to do any posting
00:18 luben about the GC related issues, there is a branch gc_ms2_tuning from nick wellnhof that dynamically adjust gc_treshold based on olready allocated space.
00:19 luben s/olredy/already/
00:21 luben some weeks ago I have benchmarked it and it is faster than current fixed size gc_treshold (benchmarked with 32,64,128,256MB)
00:21 luben the benchmark was rakudo build time
00:21 chromatic Does it have an upper bound?
00:22 luben I do not think so
00:24 luben the times where 4 min 45s for gc_ms2(256MB), 4 min 5 sec for gc_ms2_tunung and 4 min 10 sec for the old gc_ms
00:24 luben this is on 4G RAM amd64
00:28 chromatic Let's get kid51 to test that branch then.
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00:34 cotto couldn't you just test it with ulimit -v 262144 ?
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00:35 chromatic That too.
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00:58 * atrodo keeps forgetting his server only has 256m
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01:04 dukeleto Perhaps Parrot has use the infrastructure that theory++ is building for PGXN to solve the distribution of module problem: http://blog.pgxn.org/post/1353​947079/creating-distributions
01:05 dukeleto s/has use/can use/
01:06 dukeleto it uses JSON, which is very similar to Plumage
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01:16 luben ok, tested the head and gc_ms2_tuning branch, both compile rakudo given 1G of memory (umilit -v), without restrictions parrot master finishes compilation in 3m 54s, gc_ms2_tuning branch finishes in 3m 16s. Given 512M memory, master crashes in parrot execution, gc_ms2_tuning crashes in gcc.
01:19 cotto is that by chance when it tries to build the fakecutable?
01:27 dngor left #parrot
01:30 luben when builing perl6.o from perl6.c
01:30 luben ops. sorry, mistake
01:33 nopaste "luben" at 192.168.1.3 pasted "rakudo build with 512M ram" (6 lines) at http://nopaste.snit.ch/24612
01:33 luben actually yes, this is the last step before linking perl6 executable
01:36 plobsing luben: can you run perl6.c through a linting tool (or a syntax highlighter even maybe) to see if it is valid C? maybe we're outputting garbage.
01:36 plobsing alternatively, do you have other C compilers?
01:37 luben its not garbage, it eats a lot of memory
01:38 plobsing it causes gcc to eat a lot of memory?
01:41 luben I could try with gcc-4.3
01:41 plobsing that could work. less -O might work as well.
01:43 plobsing why are we all so worked up about rakudo not building properly on small systems. Can't we pre-build a perl6.pbc to install on those systems?
01:44 cotto probably because we have a developer who has a small system and likes being noisy when he can't build there
01:45 plobsing that's fair
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02:07 dalek parrot: r49589 | bacek++ | branches/generational_gc/src/gc/gc_ms2.c:
02:07 dalek parrot: Add some stats output when DETAILED_MEMORY_DEBUG defined.
02:07 dalek parrot: review: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/49589/
02:07 dalek parrot: r49590 | bacek++ | branches/generational_gc/src/gc/gc_ms2.c:
02:07 dalek parrot: Sweep strings as well.
02:07 dalek parrot: review: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/49590/
02:07 dalek parrot: r49591 | bacek++ | branches/generational_gc/src/gc/gc_ms2.c:
02:07 dalek parrot: Remove "constant" objects from pools to avoid processing them over and
02:07 dalek parrot: over again.
02:07 dalek parrot: review: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/49591/
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02:17 Tekk_ "load_bytecode" couldn't find file 'distutils.pbc'
02:17 Tekk_ I keep getting that error when I try to build a language
02:18 Tekk_ with parrot setup.pir :P tried with shakespeare and bf
02:19 plobsing find $PATH_TO_PARROT -name distutils.pbc # might show you if it is there or not
02:19 plobsing (it should be there)
02:21 Tekk_ nothing came up
02:21 Tekk_ is there like a cpan for parrot? {#
02:21 Tekk_ :P?
02:21 Tekk_ *
02:21 Tekk_ cant type tonight ><
02:22 plobsing plumage is supposed to be that (I think). but it is mostly built on top of distutils.pbc and setup.pir
02:22 chromatic Not quite yet.
02:22 plobsing so that won't really help
02:22 Tekk_ nope
02:22 plobsing distutils.pbc is supposed to be part of core
02:22 Tekk_ apparently it isn't for the debian package :P
02:23 plobsing oh then you probably need to also install libparrot-annoyingly-broke​n-out-package-of-some-kind
02:23 chromatic Is it in a parrot-dev package?
02:23 Tekk_ nope
02:23 Tekk_ just installed and che....
02:23 benabik Is there a parrot-dev package?
02:23 Tekk_ every time I install something more parrot packages show up O.o
02:23 benabik (Guh, slow typing.)
02:23 Tekk_ okay, maybe parrot devel
02:24 Tekk_ way to break the naming convention guys, I thought this was debian not fedora >>
02:24 Tekk_ not in parrot-devel either
02:26 chromatic libparrot-dev?
02:29 Tekk_ nope
02:29 Tekk_ I have everything parrot related installed except for the docs
02:29 Tekk_ in main at least
02:29 Tekk_ on the plus side it meant I got to submit my first debian bug report :P
02:31 Tekk_ ew O.o
02:31 plobsing doesn't look like distutils.pbc falls under any of the rules in ports/debian/*.install.in
02:31 Tekk_ I thought debian testing was going to be reasonably up to date, it's using 2.0.0
02:31 plobsing which is probably the problem
02:31 Tekk_ oh right, it was frozen
02:32 benabik distutils.pbc doesnt appear to be in any debian package, according to the search on debian.org
02:33 plobsing steps to remedy: 1) figure out which debian package it should be under 2) add it to the appropriate .install.in 3) rejoice
02:34 Tekk_ plobsing: parrot-devel I would guess
02:35 benabik Is github.com/parrot/parrot official? It's four days behind (notably missing 2.9.0 and 2.9.1).
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02:36 plobsing benabik: it is the eventual location of the repo. we have yet to complete our transition to git
02:36 plobsing until then, the official location is https://svn.parrot.org/parrot/trunk
02:37 benabik plobsing: So it may be updated from time to time, but I can't rely on it.  Check.
02:41 plobsing Tekk_: I don't know much about debian packaging rules, so I'll take your word for it (someone can always fix it later)
02:41 Tekk_ plobsing: yeah, I filed the bug report so it should be taken care of
02:41 plobsing Tekk_: it's a problem on our end.
02:42 dukeleto benabik: official-ish
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02:42 dukeleto benabik: i am updating it now
02:42 Tekk_ plobsing: how so?
02:42 plobsing we provide the debian control files used in those packages. debian will most likely just roll over and ask us to fix it.
02:42 Tekk_ ah, okay
02:44 benabik dukeleto: awesome. I can stop trying to get git-svn from syncing.
02:48 dukeleto benabik: it is updated now, with the new tags
02:49 dukeleto benabik: git-svn-ing the whole history takes many hours
02:49 plobsing Tekk_: control file has been updated appropriately in r49592. you can build the deb package yourself by following docs/project/debian_packaging_guide.pod from an svn checkout, or wait a couple months until debian updates.
02:50 benabik dukeleto: I know that. You can use a git clone to jump-start the process. Just have to make sure the config is just right.
02:51 benabik dukeleto: I'd still rather not bother. Thanks for updating it.
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02:53 dalek parrot: r49592 | plobsing++ | trunk/ports/debian/parrot-devel.install.in:
02:53 dalek parrot: add distutils.pbc to parrot-devel debian package
02:53 dalek parrot: review: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/49592/
02:53 dukeleto benabik: the sha1's of parrot.git will probably change again soon, to unify our authors. Just so ya know.
02:53 kid51 ~~
02:53 dukeleto kid51: howdy
02:53 kid51 hello
02:54 benabik dukeleto: Fair enough. I just prefer the git clone for bisecting and the like.
02:55 dukeleto benabik: indeed. it makes life a bunch nicer
02:56 dukeleto benabik: the branches with /'s in them on github are git-only branches. All other branches are svn branches
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04:35 GeJ aloha, clock?
04:35 aloha GeJ: GeJ: LAX: Tue, 21:35 PDT / CHI: Tue, 23:35 CDT / NYC: Wed, 00:35 EDT / UTC: Wed, 04:35 UTC / LON: Wed, 05:35 BST / BER: Wed, 06:35 CEST / TOK: Wed, 13:35 JST / SYD: Wed, 15:35 EST
04:35 aloha GeJ: I give up.
04:43 bacek_at_work aloha, clock?
04:43 aloha bacek_at_work: bacek_at_work: LAX: Tue, 21:43 PDT / CHI: Tue, 23:43 CDT / NYC: Wed, 00:43 EDT / UTC: Wed, 04:43 UTC / LON: Wed, 05:43 BST / BER: Wed, 06:43 CEST / TOK: Wed, 13:43 JST / SYD: Wed, 15:43 EST
04:43 aloha bacek_at_work: I have no idea.
04:43 bacek_at_work aloha, clock
04:59 bacek_at_work aloha, clock?
04:59 aloha bacek_at_work: bacek_at_work: LAX: Tue, 21:59 PDT / CHI: Tue, 23:59 CDT / NYC: Wed, 00:59 EDT / UTC: Wed, 04:59 UTC / LON: Wed, 05:59 BST / BER: Wed, 06:59 CEST / TOK: Wed, 13:59 JST / SYD: Wed, 15:59 EST
04:59 bacek_at_work ok. I fixed clash between Infobot and Clock modules in aloha.
05:00 cotto I need to clarify that I value kid51's input about his issues with the Rakudo build.  I apologize if anyone (especially him) felt like I was putting him down for making that problem known.
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05:42 dalek parrot: r49593 | bacek++ | branches/generational_gc/src/gc/gc_ms2.c:
05:42 dalek parrot: More statistic output
05:42 dalek parrot: review: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/49593/
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06:28 dalek parrot: r49594 | bacek++ | branches/generational_gc/src/gc (2 files):
06:28 dalek parrot: Add calculation of Pool_Allocator allocated memory
06:28 dalek parrot: review: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/49594/
06:28 dalek parrot: r49595 | bacek++ | branches/generational_gc/src/gc/gc_ms2.c:
06:28 dalek parrot: Use pool_allocated_memory function
06:28 dalek parrot: review: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/49595/
06:28 dalek parrot: r49596 | bacek++ | branches/generational_gc/src/gc (2 files):
06:28 dalek parrot: Add function to calculate allocated memory in Fixed_Size_Allocator
06:28 dalek parrot: review: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/49596/
06:28 dalek parrot: r49597 | bacek++ | branches/generational_gc/src/gc/gc_ms2.c:
06:28 dalek parrot: Output amount of allocated attributes
06:28 dalek parrot: review: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/49597/
06:28 dalek parrot: r49598 | bacek++ | branches/generational_gc/src/gc/gc_ms2.c:
06:28 dalek parrot: Fix sweep_pmc_cb to actually deallocate PMC.
06:28 dalek parrot: review: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/49598/
06:28 dalek parrot: r49599 | bacek++ | branches/generational_gc/src/gc/gc_ms2.c:
06:28 dalek parrot: Increase amount of allocated memory between collects to 16MB.
06:28 dalek parrot: review: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/49599/
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08:28 bacek aloha, humans
08:30 cotto aloha, bacek
08:31 bacek cotto, hi
08:34 bacek cotto, do you win32 box around?
08:34 cotto nope
08:35 cotto something about physical memory detection?
08:35 bacek yes
08:38 cotto bacek++
08:42 cotto I should buy a cheap used windows laptop for testing.
08:49 bacek aloha, taptinder?
08:49 aloha bacek: taptinder is continues integration tool - http://taptinder.org . For Parrot project running on http://tt.taptinder.org/ and reporting build failures to #parrot channel as ttbot.
08:50 bacek ok. We have win32 box in taptinder.
08:51 bacek here we go
08:58 ttbot Parrot trunk/ r49602 MSWin32-x86-multi-thread make error http://tt.taptinder.org/file/cmdout/411137.txt ( http://tt.taptinder.org//bui​ldstatus/pr-Parrot/rp-trunk/ )
09:01 cotto bacek, the man page for sysconf on my system indicates that _SC_AVPHYS_PAGES and _SC_PHYS_PAGES may not be standard.
09:02 bacek yes
09:02 bacek but it works on many POSIX compliant systems
09:02 dalek parrot: r49600 | bacek++ | trunk (4 files):
09:02 dalek parrot: Add Parrot_sysmem_amount to get available memory.
09:02 dalek parrot: NB: Win32 version is total stub and returns hardcoded 1GB.
09:02 dalek parrot: review: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/49600/
09:02 dalek parrot: r49601 | bacek++ | trunk/config/gen/platform/win32/sysmem.c:
09:03 dalek parrot: Implement Win32 version of Parrot_sysmem_amount based on MSDN example.
09:03 dalek parrot: review: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/49601/
09:03 dalek parrot: r49602 | bacek++ | trunk/src/gc/gc_ms2.c:
09:03 dalek parrot: Use 1/8 of available memory for gc_threshold
09:03 dalek parrot: review: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/49602/
09:03 cotto We should have a fallback for the systems where it doesn't.
09:04 sorear should just clamp sysmem_amount to a sane range
09:04 sorear 64MB-8GB should be good
09:05 bacek oookey... I broke win32 build. Somehow MEMORYSTATUSEX is not defined.
09:05 cotto that's what you get for reading the documentation
09:05 cotto I guess
09:08 bacek http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us​/library/aa366589(v=VS.85).aspx
09:08 bacek I _did_ include <windows.h>...
09:08 cotto yeah
09:15 bacek http://www.perlmonks.org/?node_id=749964
09:18 dalek parrot: r49603 | bacek++ | trunk/config/gen/platform/win32/sysmem.c:
09:18 dalek parrot: Blind commit to fix win32 build.
09:18 dalek parrot: review: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/49603/
09:19 cotto You could also try the solution in the last comment if ttbot keeps complaining.
09:23 bacek cotto, I will. But I prefer someone with win32 box to actually test it
09:23 cotto good find
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09:30 ttbot Parrot trunk/ r49603 MSWin32-x86-multi-thread make error http://tt.taptinder.org/file/cmdout/411212.txt ( http://tt.taptinder.org//bui​ldstatus/pr-Parrot/rp-trunk/ )
09:32 cotto sad ttbot is sad
09:34 cotto bacek, on the bright side trying that fix from perlmonks won't make the windows build more broken
09:35 bacek cotto, r49604
09:37 cotto whee
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09:44 ttbot Parrot trunk/ r49604 MSWin32-x86-multi-thread make error http://tt.taptinder.org/file/cmdout/411238.txt ( http://tt.taptinder.org//bui​ldstatus/pr-Parrot/rp-trunk/ )
09:45 bacek_at_work left #parrot
09:45 bacek still broken...
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09:47 cotto aloha, aloha
09:49 dalek parrot: r49604 | bacek++ | trunk/config/gen/platform/win32/sysmem.c:
09:49 dalek parrot: Second blind commit to fix win32 build based on �http://www.perlmonks.org/?node_id=749964
09:49 dalek parrot: review: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/49604/
09:49 dalek parrot: r49605 | bacek++ | trunk/config/gen/platform/win32/sysmem.c:
09:49 dalek parrot: Last blind commit to fix win32.
09:49 dalek parrot: review: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/49605/
09:49 dalek parrot: r49606 | bacek++ | trunk/config/gen/platform/win32/sysmem.c:
09:49 dalek parrot: Close #ifdef statement.
09:49 dalek parrot: review: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/49606/
09:52 bacek interesting. What happened to my devbox at $work...
09:53 bacek seen fperrad
09:53 bacek aloha, seed fperrad
09:53 bacek aloha, clock?
09:53 bacek sigh...
09:53 ttbot Parrot trunk/ r49605 MSWin32-x86-multi-thread make error http://tt.taptinder.org/file/cmdout/411263.txt ( http://tt.taptinder.org//bui​ldstatus/pr-Parrot/rp-trunk/ )
09:54 cotto aloha, seen bacek
09:54 cotto Hmm:  config/gen/platform/win32/sysmem.c:24:1: warning: "_WIN32_WINNT" redefined
09:55 bacek we do need someone on win32 to fix it properly..
09:56 cotto It's hard to escape that conclusion.
09:56 bacek_at_work joined #parrot
09:58 bacek hey! I'm not _at_work now!
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09:59 cotto everything is not coming up roses
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10:05 bacek ookey
10:06 bacek win32 builds now
10:06 cotto bacek++
10:07 cotto I bet that was more fun than you were hoping for.
10:07 bacek we need someone on "low-memory-box" to validate r49602
10:07 cotto will that patch be sensitive to ulimit?
10:07 bacek I don't like "blind commits"...
10:07 bacek Unlikely
10:08 bacek (it's about ulimit)
10:10 cotto it's sleeping time
10:10 cotto night
10:12 bacek cotto, night
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10:35 dalek parrot: r49607 | mikehh++ | trunk/MANIFEST:
10:35 dalek parrot: re-generate MANIFEST
10:35 dalek parrot: review: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/49607/
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10:50 dalek parrot: r49608 | mikehh++ | trunk (3 files):
10:50 dalek parrot: add svn properties
10:50 dalek parrot: review: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/49608/
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11:06 dalek parrot: r49609 | mikehh++ | trunk/config/gen/platform/win32/sysmem.c:
11:06 dalek parrot: fix codetest failures - there should be at least one space between a C
11:06 dalek parrot: keyword and any subsequent open parenthesis, there should be one space or a newline after a comma and
11:06 dalek parrot: fix documentation item header
11:06 dalek parrot: review: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/49609/
11:06 dalek parrot: r49610 | mikehh++ | trunk/config/gen/platform/generic/sysmem.c:
11:06 dalek parrot: correct c function docs item header
11:06 dalek parrot: review: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/49610/
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11:21 dalek parrot: r49611 | mikehh++ | trunk/include/parrot/sysmem.h:
11:21 dalek parrot: fix codetest failure - add Id keyword line
11:21 dalek parrot: review: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/49611/
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12:14 mikehh All tests PASS (pre/post-config, make corevm/make coretest, smoke (#716) fulltest) at r49611 - Kubuntu 10.10 amd64 (gcc-4.5)
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14:39 whiteknight good morning, #parrot
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15:07 dukeleto whiteknight: howdy
15:07 whiteknight hello duke. How are you doing?
15:09 dukeleto whiteknight: pretty good. I am in California for the GSoC mentor summit and the GIT Together
15:09 dukeleto whiteknight: we are going to be writing a "student manual" in the next few days
15:11 dukeleto whiteknight: what are you hacking on lately?
15:14 brianwisti dukeleto: You're just all over the place, aren't you?
15:14 whiteknight dukeleto: I haven't been doing much hacking lately at all, unfortunately. I've been doing some codereview on the generational_gc branch for bacek, but I can't hardly keep up with reading all the code he writes
15:15 whiteknight my output and availability should increase pretty dramatically starting next weekend I hope
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15:19 dukeleto brianwisti: yeah, my position field is a bit fuzzy
15:19 dukeleto whiteknight: glad to hear someone is code reviewing all that code!
15:19 dukeleto whiteknight: can you summarize what he is doing in a few sentences?
15:26 whiteknight "taking all the old shit out and replacing it with something better"
15:27 whiteknight actually, the new GC algorithm that he's using is very cool. It's like a normal generational GC algorithm but including chromatic's idea of limiting GC sweep to only a subset of objects that are known to have been alive
15:27 whiteknight where the old system swept over all of raw memory, the new system only sweeps objects which had been on the "alive" list
15:28 whiteknight objects that pass two consecutive sweeps bump up to an older generation. Older generations are swept even less frequently than average
15:28 whiteknight plus, I think he doesn't need to mark the older generations either, but I may be wrong about that idea
15:29 dukeleto whiteknight: cool stuff
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15:31 muixirt hi there
15:31 whiteknight it is very interesting. I need to dig through more of it because there is some significant complexity added in some areas
15:31 whiteknight hello muixirt
15:31 muixirt I'm a little confused about nqp, pct and pge, what depends on what?
15:31 muixirt hi whiteknight
15:32 whiteknight muixirt: Good question. I think NQP is stand-alone now
15:33 muixirt nqp replace compilers/pge, right?
15:33 PerlJam yes
15:33 whiteknight the new NQP, yes
15:34 muixirt but nqp depends on compilers/pct (?)
15:34 whiteknight I don't think it does, no
15:34 whiteknight maybe some of the libraries from it
15:35 whiteknight compilers/pct does contain definiitions for the PAST and POST node objects
15:39 pmichaud nqp depends on pct, yes.
15:40 pmichaud pge is basically obsolete
15:40 whiteknight okay, that's what I thought
15:40 pmichaud we're expecting to rewrite much of the pct stuff in nqp
15:41 muixirt thanks pmichaud and whiteknight
15:42 * muixirt thought about dependency on pir and was confused (as most of the time)
15:49 muixirt so stuff written in pir will go extinct due to lorito?
15:54 dukeleto muixirt: kinda
15:54 dukeleto muixirt: PIR will be used in Parrot internals, but people outside parrot core should have better tools to use than PIR
15:57 whiteknight muixirt: Initially, I think that we will be considering PIR to be an "HLL" that runs on top of Lorito
15:57 whiteknight in the same way that an HLL like Rakudo runs on top of PIR/PASM now
15:59 muixirt whiteknight: for what purpose (other than supporting legacy code for some time)?
15:59 aloha left #parrot
16:00 brianwisti Would that shift to PIR as HLL for Lorito eventually phase out PIR itself?
16:00 brianwisti you kinda answered. Let me rethink my question.
16:00 muixirt dukeleto: why would parrot core devs use an inferior tool than "people outside parrot core"?
16:02 bacek_at_work left #parrot
16:02 brianwisti Here's the real question: should I start thinking about using something other than PIR for the Parrot Babysteps?
16:03 dukeleto brianwisti: good question. when something better exists?
16:04 brianwisti muixirt: The opcodes (PIR / Lorito) are perfect for somebody doing low-level work in Parrot. Most developers who use Parrot won't be working on such a low level, so it won't be a good tool for them.
16:04 dukeleto muixirt: it isn't so much inferior as too low-level for most people
16:04 dukeleto muixirt: we are hoping that people won't need to write C or PIR to hack on stuff. We are hoping they will be able to use their HLL of choice
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16:10 atrodo whiteknight> re your pcc blog posting.  Do you know why pcc is so complicated?  Is there a significant speed advantage over doing something simpler, like simply having a resizable array of arguments?
16:14 bacek_at_work joined #parrot
16:16 * dukeleto has been notified that my blog post about GSoC this summer is wanted for the Google Open Source Blog. They are asking me if I can add any pictures to snazz it up. Halp?
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16:43 cotto aloha, clock?
16:45 aloha cotto: cotto: LAX: Wed, 09:43 PDT / CHI: Wed, 11:43 CDT / NYC: Wed, 12:43 EDT / UTC: Wed, 16:43 UTC / LON: Wed, 17:43 BST / BER: Wed, 18:43 CEST / TOK: Thu, 01:43 JST / SYD: Thu, 03:43 EST
16:45 cotto aloha, clock?
16:45 aloha cotto: cotto: LAX: Wed, 09:45 PDT / CHI: Wed, 11:45 CDT / NYC: Wed, 12:45 EDT / UTC: Wed, 16:45 UTC / LON: Wed, 17:45 BST / BER: Wed, 18:45 CEST / TOK: Thu, 01:45 JST / SYD: Thu, 03:45 EST
16:45 cotto ...ok
16:50 cotto seen kid51
16:50 aloha kid51 was last seen in #parrot 13 hours 56 mins ago saying "hello".
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17:25 dukeleto this is cool: http://pgbuildfarm.org/cgi-bin/show_status.pl
17:27 ttbot Parrot trunk/ r49612 MSWin32-x86-multi-thread make error http://tt.taptinder.org/file/cmdout/411476.txt ( http://tt.taptinder.org//bui​ldstatus/pr-Parrot/rp-trunk/ )
17:27 brianwisti dukeleto: You want to see a parrot icon in there someday, don't you?
17:30 muixirt left #parrot
17:30 dukeleto brianwisti: indeed I do :)
17:30 dukeleto brianwisti: i want to see a similar parrot build farm even more
17:30 brianwisti That would be lovely.
17:31 dukeleto brianwisti: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/ticket/1825 tracks the progress on that
17:31 cotto fperrad, the code in 49612 was necessary gcc on windows: http://tt.taptinder.org//bui​ldstatus/pr-Parrot/rp-trunk/
17:31 dalek parrot: r49612 | fperrad++ | trunk/config/gen/platform/win32/sysmem.c:
17:31 dalek parrot: [win32] fix build with mingw
17:31 dalek parrot: review: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/49612/
17:31 dalek parrot: r49613 | fperrad++ | trunk/config/gen/platform/generic/stat.c:
17:31 dalek parrot: fix warning on Windows
17:31 dalek parrot: review: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/49613/
17:32 ttbot Parrot trunk/ r49613 MSWin32-x86-multi-thread make error http://tt.taptinder.org/file/cmdout/411480.txt ( http://tt.taptinder.org//bui​ldstatus/pr-Parrot/rp-trunk/ )
17:32 fperrad left #parrot
17:45 whiteknight cotto: ping
17:45 cotto whiteknight, pong
17:46 whiteknight cotto: I would like to be a member of the architecture team, please
17:46 whiteknight :)
17:46 cotto ok
17:46 cotto I guess that should be documented somewhere.
17:48 whiteknight I read through the #ps notes from yesterday. I don't know how I would go about accepting my nomination for the product management team
17:48 whiteknight or if that constituted a real "nomination" anyway
17:49 cotto I thought you'd already accepted.
17:49 whiteknight ...sure, we'll just say that already happened
17:49 cotto At this point, accepting means saying "ok" where people will know about it.
17:50 whiteknight is this teams thing like a done-deal? Do we just assume we are moving forward with it?
17:51 cotto We will be using the structure, but we can change it as needed.
17:56 cotto http://trac.parrot.org/par​rot/wiki/ParrotTeamMembers
17:56 whiteknight cotto++
17:57 whiteknight First step is to figure out what the hell the Product Management team is supposed to be doing. Second step is to do that thing better than any other teams!
17:58 cotto For now, PirateTodo may be a good place to start.
17:58 * dukeleto goes and reads the logs for the last #ps
18:00 cotto dukeleto, I didn't mention your question about a weekly video chat meeting.  I have it on my list for the next #ps, which hopefully will be less chaotic.
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18:18 dukeleto cotto: yeah, no worries. Getting the bugfix release out was more important
18:18 * dukeleto just backlogged the #ps. It was quite exciting.
18:19 bacek_at_work joined #parrot
18:20 * cotto looks forward to a more boring #ps where not as many things are on fire
18:24 cotto also, one where both kid51++'s laptop and the Rakudo guys are happy
18:30 atrodo speaking of which, I need to let make test finish
18:31 atrodo it was up to 30 minutes w/2.9.1 earlier today
18:31 cotto do you have a low-resource machine or is something just broken?
18:32 atrodo I have a 256m server, apparently
18:32 atrodo i tried a few branches last night, but couldn't get anything to run slower than 4 minutes.  so today i'm trying a download of 2.9.1
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18:38 mikehh the change by fperrad in r49612 seems to have broken the win32 build on TapTinder again
18:39 mikehh looks like we need something different for mingw vs win32
18:40 cotto I mentioned it to him but didn't get a response.
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19:16 dukeleto so are the new parrot teams "go for launch" ?
19:20 cotto yes
19:20 cotto We'll find out exactly what that means as we progress.
19:22 whiteknight dukeleto: I would like to hereby solicit your participation in the "Product Management" team, if you're interested
19:22 whiteknight the team has at least some focus on extensions and embedding, and PLParrot is an important project in that regard
19:24 PerlJam Where are these teams described?
19:24 cotto PerlJam, http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/wiki/ParrotTeams
19:26 PerlJam thanks
19:26 cotto you're welcome
19:28 PerlJam Does the Product Management team also do "marketing"?
19:29 whiteknight I'm not sure yet
19:29 whiteknight I'm still formulating a comprehensive vision of the team. I'm currently thinking that it's going to be a little bit more technical, working with existing users to improve parrots interfaces
19:30 whiteknight adding a marketing component, or even creating a new separate marketing team might be a good idea though
19:30 whiteknight I wonder also if that might overlap with the community team
19:30 cotto It's somewhere between community and product, perhaps more on the product side.
19:31 cotto I don't want to create any more teams until we have some idea how the current ones will function.
19:32 whiteknight marketing is a very important role though. We do need to make sure it fits in somewhere. Reading the definitions of the teams, it does sound to me like more of the Community team's job
19:32 x3nU left #parrot
19:32 whiteknight I'm sure we'll all take a share of the pie, however
19:33 cotto agreed
19:33 cotto It needs to get done.
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19:34 PerlJam That's not how it reads to me.   Community Management seems to be about proselytizing new developers where as (to me) marketing is about converting new users.
19:35 whiteknight ah, that is a slightly different reading
19:35 whiteknight Maybe I'm too jaded into thinking that there is little divide between our current users and developers
19:35 whiteknight Okay, Product Management team has dibs on marketing. No callbacks
19:35 PerlJam heh
19:36 PerlJam parrot users are developers just of a different sort . They're building things on top of parrot, rather than building parrot.
19:36 whiteknight right
19:37 cotto that's why it can be confusing to talk about our users
19:37 NotFound Can we ask access to the GCC compile farm individually, or are we going to use it only in some automated way?
19:37 whiteknight NotFound: automated, I hope
19:38 whiteknight smoke reports on a cron job would be the best for now
19:38 NotFound whiteknight: note the "only"
19:38 whiteknight if we need to do development on an exotic system, I'm sure we could also use it for that
19:39 cotto unless it's windows
19:40 PerlJam Is there a place that lists what people are using parrot for today?
19:42 cotto sounds like a good marketing idea
19:44 whiteknight very good idea
19:44 whiteknight PerlJam: you want to hop abord the S.S. Product Management Ship?
19:46 PerlJam whiteknight: Assuming I haven't already exhausted my ability to contribute, sure  :)
19:48 whiteknight PerlJam: Well, don't strain yourself! We don't want our contributors burning out, or the Community team might hunt me down and hit me with a stick
19:48 ttbot Parrot trunk/ r49614 MSWin32-x86-multi-thread make error http://tt.taptinder.org/file/cmdout/411706.txt ( http://tt.taptinder.org//bui​ldstatus/pr-Parrot/rp-trunk/ )
19:50 dalek parrot: r49614 | fperrad++ | trunk (4 files):
19:50 dalek parrot: fix and use parrot/sysmem.h
19:50 dalek parrot: review: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/49614/
19:54 cotto fsvo "fix"
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21:23 dalek parrot: r49615 | fperrad++ | trunk/config/gen/platform/win32/sysmem.c:
21:23 dalek parrot: partial revert of r49612, but with a better condition guard,
21:23 dalek parrot: so work with MinGW gcc 3.4.5 & gcc 4.4.3
21:23 dalek parrot: review: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/49615/
21:37 mikehh fperrad++
21:38 dalek parrot: r49616 | fperrad++ | trunk/include/parrot/thr_windows.h:
21:38 dalek parrot: fix warning with MinGW gcc 3.4.5
21:38 dalek parrot: review: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/49616/
21:40 mikehh fperrad: you also managed to fix the g++ build (in r49614), I got the changes in gc_ms2.c, but couldn't figgure out the other additions of sysmem.h
21:53 fperrad generic Parrot_sysmem_amount() doesn't compile on cygwin, see TapTinder (machine #12)
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22:11 mikehh All tests PASS (pre/post-config, make corevm/make coretest, smoke (#721) fulltest) at r49616 - Kubuntu 10.10 amd64 (g++-4.5 with --optimize)
22:11 bacek_at_work joined #parrot
22:16 ttbot Parrot trunk/ r49616 cygwin-thread-multi-64int make error http://tt.taptinder.org/file/cmdout/411800.txt ( http://tt.taptinder.org//bui​ldstatus/pr-Parrot/rp-trunk/ )
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22:36 dngor_ is now known as dngor
22:37 kid51 joined #parrot
22:39 mikehh bacek_at_work: ping
23:08 dalek parrot: r49617 | mikehh++ | trunk/config/gen/platform/generic/sysmem.c:
23:08 dalek parrot: an attempt to get parrot to build on cygwin (on TapTinder)
23:08 dalek parrot: review: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/49617/
23:18 nwellnhof joined #parrot
23:19 kid51 parrot built -- albeit *very* slowly on Darwin at r49591 -- but not since
23:21 nopaste "kid51" at 192.168.1.3 pasted "Darwin: Parrot build failure somewhere after r49591" (6 lines) at http://nopaste.snit.ch/24641
23:23 kid51 Hmm, lemme see if I can get a more complete 'make' log
23:27 nwellnhof bacek: ping
23:29 nwellnhof i had a look at the gen_gc branch. one thing i noticed:
23:30 nwellnhof in gc_ms2_mark_and_sweep the root_objects list is always cleared.
23:30 nwellnhof so, after a gen0 GC, we discard all gen2 -> gen1 references.
23:31 nwellnhof that doesn't seem right to me.
23:32 bacek_at_work mikehh, pong
23:32 bacek_at_work nwellnhof, no. lines 723-731. I move root_objects into proper generations
23:33 nwellnhof but we lose track of the inter-generational reference.
23:33 nopaste "kid51" at 192.168.1.3 pasted "complete log: Darwin: Parrot build failure somewhere after r49591" (6 lines) at http://nopaste.snit.ch/24642
23:34 mikehh bacek_at_work: I was gonna ask about r49617 but looking at  http://nopaste.snit.ch/24641, probably need something similar for Darwin and _SC_AVPHYS_PAGES
23:34 kid51 What is wrong with nopaste.pl?
23:34 bacek_at_work nwellnhof, why?
23:35 nwellnhof afaics, the inter-generational references are tracked in the root_objects list, right?
23:36 nopaste "kid51" at 192.168.1.3 pasted "complete log (I hope): Darwin: Parrot build failure somewhere after r49591" (359 lines) at http://nopaste.snit.ch/24643
23:36 bacek_at_work mikehh, kid51 look at http://www.opensource.apple.com/sourc​e/gcc/gcc-5646.1/libiberty/physmem.c There is a lot of examples to get physical memory on different platform
23:37 bacek_at_work nwellnhof, no. root_objects are filled by write_barrier. After m&s I move all x-referenced objects into same generation.
23:37 bacek_at_work nwellnhof, gc_ms2_bring_them_together
23:39 * nwellnhof looking at gc_ms2_bring_them_together
23:47 nwellnhof bacek: what about the FIXME in line 856?
23:49 mikehh kid51: if you look at TapTinder (error report for machine 12 (cygwin), that is what I attempted to fix in r49617 (no test yet)
23:50 mikehh kid51: if you find what the equivalent of _SC_AVPHYS_PAGES we can try something similar for that
23:50 s1n joined #parrot
23:51 bacek_at_work nwellnhof, basically I shouldn't iterate whole generation for bringing them together.
23:52 mikehh mind you I still don't know if r49617 worked for cyhwin
23:52 mikehh cygwin
23:53 bacek_at_work _SC_AVPHYS_PAGES should work on cygwin.
23:53 nwellnhof bacek: but gc_ms2_bring_them_together doesn't add any objects to the root_objects list. so root_objects is always empty after mark_and_sweep, right?
23:54 bacek_at_work nwellnhof, correct
23:54 bacek_at_work root_objects is populated by trace_root_objects or write_barrier
23:54 mikehh bacek_at_work: yes, but kid51 is looking at his Darwin maching which failed on that
23:55 mikehh s/maching/machine/
23:56 davidfetter joined #parrot
23:56 bacek_at_work mikehh, we need different approach on darwin and *bsd.
23:56 bacek_at_work { /* This works on *bsd and darwin.  */
23:56 bacek_at_work unsigned int usermem;
23:56 bacek_at_work size_t len = sizeof usermem;
23:56 bacek_at_work static int mib[2] = { CTL_HW, HW_USERMEM };
23:56 bacek_at_work if (sysctl (mib, ARRAY_SIZE (mib), &usermem, &len, NULL, 0) == 0
23:56 bacek_at_work && len == sizeof (usermem))
23:56 bacek_at_work return (double) usermem;
23:56 kid51 Okay, I just posted where things stand for me here:  http://trac.parrot.org/par​rot/ticket/1829#comment:3
23:56 bacek_at_work }
23:56 kid51 is now known as kid51_at_dinner
23:57 cotto left #parrot
23:59 nwellnhof bacek: let me give you an example...
23:59 cotto joined #parrot

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