Camelia, the Perl 6 bug

IRC log for #parrot, 2010-11-09

Parrot | source cross referenced

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:24 whiteknight joined #parrot
00:25 dmalcolm left #parrot
00:28 cotto_work hio whiteknight
00:28 whiteknight hello cotto
00:42 cotto_work It kinda died out in here after the migration.
00:44 particle joined #parrot
00:48 whiteknight that's fine. I'm sure people are hard at work trying to figure out how to use everything
00:52 whiteknight where is that git documentation page that dukeleto made?
00:54 cotto_work docs/project/git_workflow.pod ?
00:55 whiteknight ah, I hadn't updated my fork to master yet
01:02 mikehh dunno if I screwed that up or not, push to github, see what happens
01:04 dalek parrot: 6151934 | mikehh++ | t/manifest/01-basic.t:
01:04 dalek parrot: TODOed a test to get it to pass - problem with git migration
01:04 dalek parrot: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/​6151934f663ed8cd1b5af0686f5abe26ff7b9ce4
01:04 dalek parrot: 40e8e2c | mikehh++ | MANIFEST (2 files):
01:04 dalek parrot: ran tools/dev/mk_manifest_and_skip.pl to update MANIFEST and MANIFEST.SKIP
01:04 dalek parrot: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/​40e8e2c065bd9575b024b90a8f82b1c9934f4347
01:04 dalek parrot: 64b2954 | mikehh++ | t/configure/018-revision_to_cache.t:
01:04 dalek parrot: added TODO to get test to pass after git migration
01:04 dalek parrot: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/​64b2954c7604222b3e20b454c8cac86cc55c7c2f
01:05 cotto_work nice to see that working
01:05 Limbic_Region joined #parrot
01:07 mikehh does it send emails, cause haven't got 'em yet
01:08 cotto_work mikehh: nyi
01:08 cotto_work high priority though
01:09 GeJ Bonjour everyone.
01:10 mikehh hi GeJ
01:10 GeJ Quick question, could someone tell me how big the parrot repository is after the git clone?
01:10 GeJ heya mikehh.
01:11 mikehh GeJ: 107.2 MiB
01:12 GeJ mikehh: thank you.
01:12 whiteknight github does have a post-commit hook that can send emails
01:12 mikehh thats what I got anyway
01:12 whiteknight we can probably have those sent to parrot-dev, or whatever list it is
01:12 cotto_work whiteknight: yes but it doesn't send full diffs
01:19 bacek_at_work ~~
01:19 bacek_at_work seen mj41
01:19 aloha mj41 was last seen in #perl6 31 days 6 hours ago joining the channel.
01:19 bacek_at_work sigh...
01:19 bacek_at_work We've lost taptinder.
01:19 GeJ can't we use the diff from the commit URLs?
01:21 mikehh bacek_at_work: it still thinks we are on svn
01:24 * cotto_work goes home
01:25 cotto_work possibly never to check parrot out via svn again
01:37 dngor_ joined #parrot
01:41 dngor left #parrot
01:47 cotto ~~
01:49 mikehh you got home :-} (20 minutes commute?)
01:49 * mikehh gets to work at home most of the time
01:50 * mikehh especially as I have no local clients :-}
01:58 whiteknight yay! I merged my first branch
01:59 whiteknight of course, I did it in my fork, bu it's merged nonetheless
01:59 GeJ still checking out... :/
02:00 cotto GeJ, at least it'll be fast once you're over the initial clone
02:01 GeJ cotto: indeed.
02:02 whiteknight I've cloned a few times today, and all of them were relatively quick
02:02 GeJ need MOAR BANDWIZZZ!
02:03 cotto GeJ, what's your connection?
02:03 cotto speed
02:04 GeJ 512KB  yeah, I know.
02:07 dalek parrot: 7c6c829 | Whiteknight++ | / (28 files):
02:07 dalek parrot: Merge remote branch 'origin/stdhandle_meths'
02:07 dalek parrot: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/​7c6c8291a026911f12b7eb62489f426b19a9f86e
02:07 GeJ I meant, 512 Kbps
02:07 dalek parrot: 0671540 | Whiteknight++ | / (4 files):
02:07 dalek parrot: Merge branch 'master' of github.com:parrot/parrot
02:07 dalek parrot: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/​067154052d5dbba4bc733e11fcd1792de606acaf
02:19 Andy left #parrot
02:28 plobsing is the funny character on the 3rd line of CREDITS (<feff>) supposed to be there?
02:29 cotto plobsing, looks broken
02:29 GeJ isn't that the BOM thingy?
02:29 bacek_at_work plobsing, it's unicode BOM. Should be first bytes in file
02:33 cotto we can nuke $Id$ now
02:36 bacek_at_work we _should_ nuke $Id$ now
02:36 plobsing I looked through the file for obviously unicody names, but I don't see any that have been mangled. removing.
02:39 dalek TT #264 closed by whiteknight++: Add experimental method stdhandle to the interpreter pmc
02:39 dalek TT #264: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/ticket/264
02:39 dalek parrot: 95508f2 | plobsing++ | CREDITS:
02:39 dalek parrot: kill stray BOM
02:39 dalek parrot: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/​95508f2041b281586c1f7f527b9c3ec3f8b82f90
02:42 cotto \me will now start referring to plobsing as "the BOM squad"
02:42 GeJ Hum, looks like gerd and myself merged.
02:43 cotto Hmmm.  You're definitely not him.
02:44 GeJ I know that. But github doesn't seem to think so.
02:45 cotto are commits by you and him attributed to the same person?
02:45 cotto dukeleto, ping
02:46 GeJ At least two of my commits (on CREDITS) are attributed to him.
02:46 dngor_ is now known as dngor
02:46 GeJ back to work know. I'll have a look at it later.
02:46 * GeJ &
02:56 cognominal left #parrot
02:57 rurban_ joined #parrot
02:57 dukeleto yay, dalek is reporting git commits!
02:57 dukeleto sorear++ # was that you?
02:59 rurban left #parrot
02:59 rurban_ is now known as rurban
02:59 dukeleto whiteknight: ping
03:00 dukeleto msg whiteknight can you please use "git pull --rebase" to update your git repo? that will avoid "    Merge branch 'master' of github.com:parrot/parrot
03:00 aloha OK. I'll deliver the message.
03:02 dukeleto should Parrot::Revision even exist anymore?
03:02 plobsing I had to 'git add -f' to add files from include/parrot (they are somehow getting filtered by .gitignore)
03:02 plobsing that's not supposed to happen right?
03:03 whiteknight dukeleto: aye aye
03:03 whiteknight but now I am off to bed
03:03 whiteknight left #parrot
03:03 cotto dukeleto, did gej and gerd get merged by your branch filtering?
03:05 bluescreen left #parrot
03:07 GeJ me being 'geraud' in trac. Just saying. That'd be a Levenshtein distance of 2.
03:09 bacek_at_work plobsing, which files in parrot/include?
03:12 plobsing bacek_at_work: include/parrot/{encoding,hash,​list,nci,oplib/core_ops,...}.h but it just says include/parrot is ignored
03:12 dukeleto cotto: i hope not
03:13 bacek_at_work plobsing, yes. core_pmcs.h should be removed from .gitignore now
03:13 cotto dukeleto, I think they did
03:14 dukeleto cotto: https://gist.github.com/668635
03:14 bacek_at_work plobsing, hang on. May be not.
03:14 dukeleto cotto: that is my script. gej and gerd have different entries
03:14 dukeleto cotto: oh shit.
03:14 dukeleto "geraud") n='Gerd Pokorra' ; m="pokorra@uni-siegen.de" ;;
03:14 cotto https://trac.parrot.org/parrot/changeset/49717 should be geraud
03:14 dukeleto that is not correct, i am guessing?
03:15 dukeleto damnit.
03:15 dukeleto that was a jet-lag induced error, i tell you.
03:15 dukeleto what do we do?
03:16 bacek_at_work plobsing, hmm. These files are not ignored in my checkout.
03:16 dukeleto how many commits are wrong?
03:18 bacek_at_work 47000?
03:18 * bacek_at_work hides
03:20 * dukeleto chases bacek
03:21 GeJ dukeleto: I haven't had the chance to make a lot of commits. I'd say half a dozen tops.
03:22 cotto I have 5 commit messages from gej
03:22 dukeleto GeJ: i am really sorry about this. I am trying to figure out what is best to try to do
03:22 GeJ cotto: confirmed.
03:22 bacek_at_work dukeleto, rewrite history...
03:23 cotto dukeleto, +1 to what bacek_at_work said.  better now than later
03:23 dukeleto fun thing is that we have to know which sha1's they are and do it manually, because there is nothing to rewrite now
03:24 cotto dukeleto, that's easy
03:24 cotto just follow the urls in the commit messages and they'll redirect to the right place
03:25 dukeleto This was caused because i want hand-editing the filter script, because the data was not put into CREDITS properly
03:25 dukeleto cotto: no, this is nontrivial
03:26 GeJ dukeleto: There's nothing to be sorry about. Given the 5 commits I did, I'd say "do nothing".
03:26 dukeleto cotto: we need a script that stops at those sha1's and commits them with a different author
03:27 dukeleto GeJ: i feel really bad that your commits got lost in the shuttle. It isn't right.
03:27 dukeleto cotto: can you give me a list of sha1's that should be GeJ's ?
03:27 cotto sure.  just a sec
03:27 GeJ dukeleto: well don't! :)
03:27 dukeleto i can write the script, i just need the sha1's
03:29 dukeleto I really hope this is the only mistake. I don't want to do this *yet* again.
03:31 plobsing what is the optimal wait period such that we expect to find all similar errors, but not too many people will need to rebase after?
03:31 nopaste "cotto" at 192.168.1.3 pasted "sha1sums for most of geraud's commits" (5 lines) at http://nopaste.snit.ch/25409
03:31 cotto the middle one didn't appear in the output of git log
03:31 nopaste "GeJ" at 192.168.1.3 pasted "GeJ's commits (4 out of 5)" (6 lines) at http://nopaste.snit.ch/25410
03:31 cotto probably because it was just a metadata change
03:32 GeJ thanks cotto :)
03:32 lidden left #parrot
03:32 dukeleto sha1's are based on content *and* metadata
03:32 dukeleto "most" of the commits?
03:33 mikehh codetest blows up straignt away
03:33 dukeleto mikehh: the tests for Parrot::Revision are just horrible
03:34 dukeleto mikehh: the test about $Parrot::Revision::current fails because it is in a temp dir, but there is odd stuff going on when you require the module, so I couldn't get all the tests to pass at the same time
03:35 dukeleto Parrot::Revision seems to be a lot more complicated than it needs to be
03:35 dukeleto cotto: so why is one of GeJ's commits in svn but not git?
03:35 cotto dukeleto, that's my best guess
03:36 dukeleto cotto: what repo where you running that on?
03:36 dukeleto cotto: it was perhaps a commit that happened after you last updated it
03:36 mikehh dukeleto: I TODOed the test , but it reports something like - fatal: Not a git repository (or any of the parent directories): .git
03:36 cotto dukeleto, could be
03:36 dukeleto mikehh: yes, it is running it from a temp directory
03:38 mikehh dukeleto: I'll have to have a look later - it's approaching 4am for me and I definately need a break - bbl
03:39 dukeleto i am not sure what to do without the last of GeJ's sha1's
03:40 mikehh oh make corevm/make coretest, make world/make test PASSed ok, but as I said make codetest blows up straight away
03:40 GeJ the commit message says "Pet file_metadata.t by adding missing SVN properties." but I can't find such file.
03:41 GeJ sorry, nevermind
03:41 mikehh GeJ: I think that has gone
03:41 GeJ I'm useless today.
03:42 dukeleto delete any test that is talking about svn metadata
03:42 GeJ dukeleto: most probably it was a `svn propset` only commit.
03:42 GeJ not sure if it got logged in git.
03:42 * dukeleto hates svn properties even more now.
03:42 mikehh GeJ: you got to wrap your head around new ways of doin' things :-}
03:42 dukeleto $ svn log -r49390
03:42 dukeleto ------------------------------------​------------------------------------
03:42 dukeleto that is all it prints.
03:43 dukeleto svn--
03:43 dukeleto GeJ: ok, then. I will fix your 4 code commits. You deserve it.
03:43 cotto dukeleto, that's probably because the svn server is down
03:43 cotto nm
03:43 dukeleto cotto: nope. run "svn log", it works fine
03:43 cotto it works for some commits
03:44 dukeleto cotto: svn log is read-only
03:44 dukeleto why doesn't svn show the svnpropset commit? I don't care.
03:44 cotto Moving away from it was a good idea.
03:45 mikehh anyway I am starting to miss keys so I better get some sleep, cu
03:45 cotto mikehh, g'night
03:46 GeJ good night mikehh
03:48 * dukeleto fixes parrot.git
03:51 moritz_ joined #parrot
03:51 moritz left #parrot
03:54 GeJ dukeleto: you really don't have to. But thanks.
03:59 cotto GeJ, if you committed something it's important that our repo reflect that.  It wouldn't be proper to let your commits fall through the cracks.
04:03 dalek parrot: 2ee2d42 | plobsing++ | / (2 files):
04:03 dalek parrot: cleanup t/distro/file_metadata.t references
04:03 dalek parrot:
04:03 dalek parrot: t/distro/file_metadata.t is gone with svn->git migration. harnesses should no
04:03 dalek parrot: longer be trying to run it.
04:03 dalek parrot: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/​2ee2d425834153d2fbe54f27caef54771dd88981
04:04 dukeleto cotto: can you look through https://gist.github.com/668635 and see if you can spot any more errors?
04:04 dukeleto cotto: i am writing the new filter-branch command now
04:05 cotto looking now
04:11 cotto dukeleto, I've looked through it and don't see anything amiss, apart from the lack of an umlaut in masak's full name.
04:13 plobsing cotto: that error appears to have been propagated from the CREDITS file
04:14 Limbic_Region left #parrot
04:21 GeJ dukeleto: in your gist, line 56, I guess the information for "geraud" would be the same as "GeJ"
04:21 GeJ I don't know if that matters, but there's a "geraud" on github, and he's not me either.
04:22 GeJ (I probably should unify my accounts and put myself as GeJ on trac)
04:22 cotto GeJ, github will go by email address
04:23 cotto as long as he's not using yours, you'll be linked to your commit
04:23 dukeleto https://gist.github.com/668696 <-- my proposed fix
04:23 dukeleto cotto: code review please ^^^
04:24 dukeleto cotto: please verify the commits mentioned there are the ones you told me were GeJ's
04:25 dukeleto GeJ: stuff on the left are svn usernames, that get translated into names and emails
04:25 cotto dukeleto, looks good
04:27 dukeleto there is a subtle bug there. rev-parse HEAD doesn't change inside of a filter-branch, but $GIT_COMMIT is there for that
04:27 dukeleto jhelwig++
04:28 dukeleto jhelwig: code review again please : https://gist.github.com/668696
04:29 jhelwig That should do what you're looking for, yeah.
04:29 jhelwig I normally quote both sides of the test, but other than that...  ( [ "$foo" = "bar"] )
04:30 jhelwig Writing anything non-trivial in shell sucks. :-\
04:30 GeJ dukeleto: I added a comment on https://gist.github.com/668635
04:31 dukeleto GeJ: thanks :) I am writing a different script to fix that error. That was the original script that I ran, with the error in it
04:31 dukeleto GeJ: fixing the script does us no good, because all your commits have be rewritten
04:33 jhelwig dukeleto: You could re-run the original script (with the bugfix) on a clean repo.
04:33 jhelwig The original refs should all be under refs/original/*
04:34 dukeleto jhelwig: i did the filter-branch many times. Not even sure which was the original. And there have been commits to git, so I need to use the newest repo
04:34 jhelwig Fair enough.
04:34 dukeleto jhelwig: so i am just going to run that smaller fixer
04:36 dukeleto GeJ: does your info look good in https://gist.github.com/668696 ?
04:36 sorear dukeleto: yes, I added the dalek git parrot thing
04:37 dukeleto sorear++
04:37 dukeleto sorear: i am going to force push a new repo soon. Hopefully that doesn't kill dalek
04:38 sorear I'll restart the poller
04:39 GeJ dukeleto: looks good, thanks.
04:39 sorear actually it won't kill dalek
04:39 sorear but the last 30 or so commits will be reported twice
04:44 * dukeleto has found the magic commitish 22840928853892a1b5ed020799702956d2f5ee76^.​.498de4d5554f9d3e5dba6634e4e7c3c20c5ef28a^
04:44 dukeleto which is small and contains the wrong commits
04:44 * dukeleto fixes stuff
04:46 dukeleto jhelwig: if i only filter part of history, that makes the history of that disjoint, yes?
04:46 dukeleto s/of that/after that/
04:47 dukeleto jhelwig: gonna do a : git filter-branch --env-filter '. /home/leto/fix_gej.sh' -- --all
04:47 jhelwig From that point forward (anything that has that as a parent), yeah.
04:48 jhelwig Where "that point" is the first "changed" commit.
04:48 dukeleto jhelwig: as i thought, my magic commitish is for naught
04:56 dukeleto https://gist.github.com/668718 <-- what dukeleto is using to fix bug with GeJ++'s commits
04:56 * dukeleto crosses fingers
04:59 * cotto crosses dukeleto's fingers
04:59 * dukeleto crosses his crosses with double crosses
05:01 eternaleye left #parrot
05:01 eternaleye joined #parrot
05:26 davidfetter joined #parrot
05:28 dukeleto cotto: ping
05:28 dukeleto cotto: https://gist.github.com/668749 <-- that is the new output of "git shortlog -se", which shows 4 commits from GeJ
05:29 dukeleto GeJ: ^^^
05:29 dukeleto someone tell me it looks sane, and I will do a force push and let people know
05:31 dukeleto Is anybody still awake?
05:32 * dukeleto does a while(1) { $house.ring_door_bell }
05:33 * dukeleto doesn't feel like waiting much more
05:33 bacek_at_work dukeleto, afternoon
05:33 dukeleto bacek_at_work: !
05:33 bacek_at_work dukeleto, ?? !!
05:33 dukeleto bacek_at_work: i am about to do another force push, so GeJ++ gets his commits back
05:33 dukeleto bacek_at_work: you will need to re-clone
05:33 bacek_at_work dukeleto, yes
05:34 bacek_at_work actually git pull --force should work
05:35 cotto dukeleto, I see gej people
05:35 dukeleto cotto: does it look good?
05:35 dukeleto bacek_at_work: you wil have disjoint history that takes up lots of space
05:35 dukeleto bacek_at_work: but a gc could fix that
05:36 dukeleto bacek_at_work: but it is easier to tell people to re-clone
05:36 bacek_at_work dukeleto, who cares about space???
05:36 dukeleto bacek_at_work: will "git pull --force && git gc" work ?
05:36 dukeleto bacek_at_work: some people :)
05:36 bacek_at_work it's 100MB for 10 years of development
05:36 cotto dukeleto, +1
05:37 dukeleto stdhandle_methods got merged, correct?
05:37 bacek_at_work dukeleto, git gc should work too
05:37 * dukeleto does a whole bunch of force pushes
05:38 dukeleto only some branches were effected
05:38 dukeleto only a small slice of history has their sha1's changed by this
05:38 dukeleto basically, all branches and tags after GeJ's commits, which were all in the last few months
05:38 dukeleto all branches that contain a commit in the last few months, that is
05:40 dukeleto It is done.
05:41 dukeleto bacek_at_work: let me know if "pull --force" works for you. I am trying it myself.
05:41 dukeleto bacek_at_work: nope. it creates conflicts
05:41 bacek_at_work dukeleto, did you push it?
05:41 dukeleto bacek_at_work: pull is a merge
05:41 dukeleto bacek_at_work: yes, it is there.
05:42 dukeleto bacek_at_work: but a "pull --force" creates merge conflicts
05:42 cotto dukeleto, git pull --force worked, if noisily
05:42 dukeleto cotto: it worked for you? Perhaps i was doing it on a wonky repo
05:42 dukeleto cotto: can you nopaste the output it gave you?
05:42 cotto np
05:43 * dukeleto has about 17 parrot repos laying around
05:43 nopaste "cotto" at 192.168.1.3 pasted "git pull --force output" (19 lines) at http://nopaste.snit.ch/25417
05:43 dukeleto jhelwig: thanks for your help!
05:43 dukeleto jhelwig: do you have any wisdom about "git pull --force" ?
05:44 dukeleto cotto: cool! I shall notify the masses.
05:44 cotto I'll need to work with osuosl to update the trac db
05:45 cotto shouldn't cause much interruption though
05:45 dukeleto cotto: yes, please and thank you. I need to sleep soon. I am running on 3 hours of sleep from last night, which is why I made stupid mistakes.
05:45 cotto and only during the few minutes when the upgrade is being done
05:45 cotto dukeleto, night
05:45 cotto aloha, clock?
05:45 aloha cotto: cotto: LAX: Mon, 21:45 PST / CHI: Mon, 23:45 CST / NYC: Tue, 00:45 EST / UTC: Tue, 05:45 UTC / LON: Tue, 05:45 GMT / BER: Tue, 06:45 CET / TOK: Tue, 14:45 JST / SYD: Tue, 16:45 EST
05:46 cotto dukeleto, I hope not to hear from you until morning, then
05:49 cotto Hmmm.  aloha seems to be addressing me twice
06:02 cotto Hmmm.  it looks like my local repo isn't happy
06:03 cotto nm.  I probably messed it up with an over-eager sed command
06:03 dukeleto cotto: don't scare me.
06:03 dukeleto Yes, i am not asleep yet.
06:03 dukeleto I just fixed another buglet.
06:04 * dukeleto waits for the commits to show up in here before attempting to go back to sleep
06:05 dukeleto plobsing: your last commit accidently didn't go into the newest parrot.git, but I committed myself and gave you a ++
06:06 dukeleto s/committed myself/committed it myself/
06:06 dukeleto but the first is not far from the truth at this point
06:06 dukeleto perhaps dalek hates me?
06:06 dukeleto msg GeJ you have your commits back in parrot.git :)
06:06 aloha OK. I'll deliver the message.
06:06 plobsing dukeleto: so long as its still there, I'm happy. did you get the gsoc_nci master merge as well?
06:07 plobsing that one is more important (it was a PITA)
06:07 dukeleto plobsing: when did it happen?
06:08 dukeleto plobsing: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commits/gsoc_nci
06:08 dukeleto plobsing: is that out of date?
06:08 dukeleto plobsing: i got everything before your BOM commit
06:09 dukeleto plobsing: but the one commit after that wasn't in my force push. but everything before that should be there. But i don't see a gsoc_nci merge
06:09 dukeleto plobsing: did you push it?
06:09 plobsing I thought I did
06:09 dukeleto plobsing: if you have a local copy, feel fresh to make a new git branch for it
06:09 dukeleto plobsing: i don't think i ever saw a gsoc_nci merge happen, but I could be insane.
06:09 plobsing gitk shows my copy being at the same point as remotes/origin/gsoc_nci
06:10 plobsing (haven't force pulled yet for fear of losing work)
06:10 plobsing (yes, github's gsoc_nci is out of date)
06:10 plobsing wtf is going on?
06:12 cotto removing $Id$ isn't as simple as I'd hoped
06:12 dukeleto plobsing: save your work as patches with format-patch, and create a new branch with it
06:12 dukeleto cotto: why not?
06:12 dukeleto cotto: tests?
06:12 dukeleto cotto: you should probably only remove that string if it is in the first 5 or 10 lines of the file
06:13 dukeleto plobsing: you can do a "git apply *.patch" from the patches that format-patch spits out
06:13 dukeleto plobsing: in a new branch
06:14 cotto dukeleto, go to sleep.  I can figure it out.
06:14 cotto ;)
06:14 * dukeleto sleeps
06:14 cotto just a healthy number of edge cases that prevent a naive sed command from dtrt
06:21 moritz_ is now known as moritz
06:22 GeJ msg dukeleto Thank you, and sorry for the trouble. :)
06:22 aloha OK. I'll deliver the message.
06:29 davidfetter left #parrot
06:34 sECuRE left #parrot
06:34 sECuRE joined #parrot
06:50 plobsing gsoc_nci fixed. brute force copy ftw.
07:24 cotto $Id$ is mostly purged
07:26 cotto there are three remaining instances that I don't feel like figuring out
07:50 cotto http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/wiki/GitMigration has a nice tasklist for anyone interested
07:50 * cotto sleeps
07:51 GeJ Good night cotto.
07:52 GeJ Anyone witnessing build failures?
07:54 GeJ I think I have a fix, running fulltest to be sure.
07:55 GeJ If I'm the only one, then I'm probably going to break something.
07:56 bacek GeJ, on which platform?
07:56 GeJ FreeBSD 8.x
07:56 GeJ amd64
07:57 GeJ But I don't think it's platform related. The way I get it, it has to do with : https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/ffc3​43bb2c516d9b4b0c8370c6b7b2a4517ccb16#diff-69
07:58 bacek looks suspicious
07:58 bacek which tests are failing?
07:58 GeJ build failure.
07:59 bacek ./parrot -o parrot_nci_thunk_gen.pbc tools/dev/nci_thunk_gen.pir
07:59 bacek error:imcc:The opcode 'concat_s_s_ic' (concat<3>) was not found. Check the type and number of the arguments
07:59 bacek in file 'tools/dev/nci_thunk_gen.pir' line 354
07:59 bacek make: *** [parrot_nci_thunk_gen.pbc] Error 1
07:59 bacek this one?
07:59 GeJ precisely
07:59 GeJ I think I got it fixed.
07:59 GeJ just running tests to be sure.
07:59 bacek ok than
08:00 bacek push it
08:00 GeJ will do in a few minutes. Thanks
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08:09 GeJ msg dukeleto I just did my first commit under the git era. Everything's shiny. Not to fret. thanks!
08:09 aloha OK. I'll deliver the message.
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11:29 kid51 Who is supposed to post to parrot-dev re conversion to git?
11:42 kid51 Is there someone who has already performed Parrot checkouts from git who could pick up http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/ticket/1844, that would be appreciated.
11:44 kid51 People who participated in the git transition, please pre-post about that for today's #parrotsketch.  Thanks.
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12:28 Topic for #parrot is now Parrot 2.9.1 Released | http://parrot.org | Log: irclog.perlgeek.de/parrot/today | svn is dead, long live git! https://github.com/parrot/parrot | Parrot mailing lists are down
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12:37 kid51 gerd: Am cc-ing you on the OSUOSL bug ticket re mailing list being down
12:40 gerd kid51: Thank you, I can read the email with the web interface
12:42 gerd but the mail server seems not to send them out
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13:31 whiteknight good morning, #parrot
13:48 mikehh hi whiteknight - I am having great difficulty keeping track of what is happening at the moment
13:49 mikehh mailing list is down, dalek is not keeping up with git
13:50 * dukeleto waves
13:50 dukeleto mikehh: yeah, OSUOSL peeps aren't awake yet
13:50 dukeleto mikehh: but they will probably wake up within an hour or two
13:52 mikehh dukeleto: I did a git pull a while back and loads of conflicts, re cloned
13:52 dukeleto mikehh: yes, sorry about that. There was an email to parrot-dev, but it didn't get there
13:52 whiteknight mikehh: that stinks. I'm sorry to hear that. This mailing list thing is becoming a little bit aggrevating
13:52 dukeleto mikehh: "git pull --force" would have worked, but a new clone is even better
13:52 dukeleto whiteknight: indeed it is
13:53 whiteknight it is hard to complain about a service we are getting for free, but at the same time we are pretty dependent on that service
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13:54 mikehh I have a sort of master clone, which I am cloning various local copies (different ones for testing on different Ubuntu versions
13:55 mikehh I use that to pull from the local copy and then push to master
13:56 dukeleto mikehh: that is smart
13:56 dukeleto mikehh: you are saving lots of bandwidth that way
13:56 dukeleto mikehh: but you should read the email to parrot-dev, because I had to modify the repo last night
13:56 dukeleto mikehh: clones before that require a "git pull --force"
13:57 dukeleto mikehh: http://lists.parrot.org/pipermail/p​arrot-dev/2010-November/004992.html
13:57 dukeleto ARG
13:58 dukeleto the stupid mailing list corrupted a URL in the email
13:58 dukeleto git clone git at github.com:parrot/parrot.git should be: git clone git@github.com:parrot/parrot.git
13:59 dukeleto mikehh: if you have any questions, please ask me.
14:02 dukeleto gsoc_nci got merged!
14:02 dukeleto yay.
14:02 dukeleto oh wait, i am wrong
14:02 dukeleto but it seems a lot closer.
14:03 dukeleto hmmmm. i think it was merged, but the remote branch did not get deleted
14:03 dukeleto plobsing: ping
14:13 dukeleto for people that did a "git pull --force" : I think you will also need to run "git pull --force --tags" to get the new tags
14:14 dukeleto For people that did a new clone: You are all good.
14:26 dukeleto how long until #ps?
14:26 dukeleto sorear: ping
14:26 whiteknight dukeleto: what did you modify about the repo last night?
14:27 dukeleto whiteknight: GeJ++'s commits were incorrectly given to gerd++
14:27 dukeleto whiteknight: which was not acceptable to me.
14:27 dukeleto whiteknight: so i had to filter-branch again to fix that
14:27 dukeleto whiteknight: you may need a "git pull --force --tags" if you have the old clone
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14:34 whiteknight gotcha
14:43 whiteknight why were the commits being misattributed?
14:44 whiteknight also, how do I fix this situation in my fork? Do I need to re-clone or can I update the history in-place?
14:46 dukeleto whiteknight: "git pull --force --tags"
14:48 dukeleto whiteknight: i was jet lagged and Gerd and Geraud are very close. It was a mistake on my part when hand-editing the filter-branch command to fix stuff that was not in CREDITS
14:49 whiteknight okay, that's cool. Those kinds of things do happen. So long as it's fixed any everybody is happy about it, everything is good
14:50 whiteknight and everybody expects some stumbling blocks the first day of the migration, so I doubt anybody is upset about it
14:56 dukeleto whiteknight: yep.
14:57 whiteknight dukeleto: now that all the hard stuff is done, I think you've earned yourself a little vacation
14:58 whiteknight I don't know anybody who'se worked harder in the past few weeks than you
14:58 whiteknight who's*
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15:26 jhelwig dukeleto: Seeing as Parrot is in git now, I'm shutting down the auto-updated git-svn clone.
15:29 whiteknight good idea
15:29 whiteknight jhelwig++
15:34 plobsing_ dukeleto: pong
15:37 whiteknight plobsing_: dukeleto wanted to know whether the gsoc_nci branch was merged in last night, and if not, what the status is
15:38 plobsing_ It isn't merged. It got synced w/ master (conflicts, ugly) which was the only large barrier remaining against the merge (AFAIK). There's a couple codingstd tests failing, but I can squash those.
15:40 plobsing_ As indicated in my #ps pre-post, I do intend to have it merged sometime this week.
15:41 plobsing_ speaking of #ps, can somebody ask about abandoning pkg-config (as I'm suggesting with TT #1842)? once again, I cannot attend (except possibly if it runs long).
15:46 whiteknight I actually might be able to attend today, though I will likely be a little late
15:48 atrodo I'm excited.  I forget that the time change means #ps starts sooner
15:48 plobsing_ oh. right, time change. Now I *definitely* cannot attend.
15:50 cotto This is one of those times I'm glad my phone lets me set events in utc.
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15:54 whiteknight plobsing_: question. How hard is it to convert a packfile structure into a PackFile PMC?
15:54 whiteknight is it a VTABLE_set_pointer, or is it more nefarious?
15:54 plobsing_ that's it. it's just a VTABLE_set_pointer.
15:54 whiteknight perfect. That makes me and the new embedding API very happy
15:55 whiteknight Because the new API is only going to expose PackFile PMCs to the embedding code, never the packfile structures
15:56 plobsing_ please also make it possible to operate without having to touch packfiles if we don't need that level of control
15:57 plobsing_ having to provide a dummy packfile always seemed like such an arbitrary chore.
15:59 whiteknight plobsing_: I do agree with you there. But there are plenty of cases where we might want to have the packfile objects available, so we need to cover those cases
15:59 plobsing_ true. that level of control should be available. but there's a large set of cases where embeders shouldn't have to care that much.
16:00 whiteknight From the embedder's perspective, most programs will have two parts: obtain packfiles, execute packfiles
16:01 whiteknight whether those packfiles come from loading a .pbc file, or are output by a compiler is up to the embedder
16:01 whiteknight or even from compiling a string
16:02 dukeleto jhelwig: sounds good. Git-svn is dead to me.
16:02 plobsing_ OK. the compiling/executing a string case is the one I'm most interested in.
16:02 plobsing_ but I can see the case for consistency
16:02 dukeleto plobsing_: i agree. dummy packfiles => we are doing it wrong.
16:03 dukeleto whiteknight: i would say that, from the embedders point of view, packfiles don't exist. Only PBCs
16:04 whiteknight dukeleto: whatever you want to call it is inconsequential to me. It's an object representation of a slug of bytecode
16:04 whiteknight whether that comes out of a compiler, from loading a .pbc file, or elsewhere doesn't matter.
16:05 dukeleto whiteknight: congrats on baby teeth :)
16:05 whiteknight You get the bytecode object, you execute the bytecode object
16:05 dukeleto whiteknight: sure. But no one but core parrot devs should even hear the word "packfile"
16:05 dukeleto whiteknight: i am agreeing with you :)
16:06 whiteknight dukeleto: thanks. The first 8 teeth came in one-at-a-time and were manageable. This next set are all coming in at once and the kid is miserable
16:06 whiteknight and he's miserable while I'm trying to sleep, which makes me miserable
16:06 plobsing_ whiteknight: one more request. If we can kill Parrot_run_native and PARROT_OP_enternative, I will be very happy. They are both crufty and non-reentrant.
16:07 dukeleto plobsing_: thanks for you work on gsoc_nci !
16:07 atrodo whiteknight> I know the feeling.  My kid got his first 8 teeth in just over a month
16:07 whiteknight plobsing_: is that an embedding API goal? I would need to read over the contents of those things first. I'm not familiar with them
16:07 dukeleto what is up with dalek?
16:07 whiteknight atrodo: what's funny is that it's such a pain in the ass to grow them, and my kid has already chipped one of his front teeth
16:08 plobsing_ whiteknight: let me know if/when/how I can help executing your master plan.
16:08 whiteknight didn't even take the time to appreciate them before breaking one
16:08 atrodo kids are so thoughtless
16:08 whiteknight plobsing_: right now it's all design and basic prototyping. This kind of feedback is invaluable
16:08 whiteknight Most of it should be straightforward. In many cases I'm just creating thin wrappers around existing functions
16:09 whiteknight thin wrappers with a consistant aesthetic and proper error-handling
16:09 plobsing_ Parrot_run_native (the only user of PARROT_OP_enternative) is used to execute C extn code while not under a runloop by setting up a dummy runloop and then calling a callback.
16:10 whiteknight plobsing_: let me abbreviate that for you: "it's stupid"
16:10 whiteknight that sounds horrible
16:10 whiteknight what's the possible reason for that?
16:10 plobsing_ oh, it also stores the callback in a static global variable
16:10 dukeleto This is relevant to getting Javascript working on parrot: http://matt.might.net/articles/by-e​xample-continuation-passing-style/
16:10 plobsing_ have fun with threads on that one
16:10 dukeleto plobsing_: please kill that with fire
16:11 whiteknight is that just a misguided way to capture exceptions from extension code?
16:11 plobsing_ whiteknight: reason? to this madness?
16:11 whiteknight plobsing_: I'm sure the original author had a reason, even if it was a bad one
16:11 whiteknight who calls Parrot_run_native?
16:12 plobsing_ it looks almost like it's trying to setup an inferior runloops problem
16:12 plobsing_ maybe that's useful somehow
16:12 whiteknight ha
16:12 whiteknight i need to go grab an early lunch. I'll be back in a bit
16:14 dukeleto mikehh: please read the "Keeping branches updated" section in docs/project/git_workflow.pod
16:14 dukeleto mikehh: basically, use "git pull --rebase" instead of "git pull"
16:14 dukeleto mikehh: this will make it so we don't see lots of merge commits like "Merge branch 'master' of /home/mhu/parrot"
16:15 dukeleto mikehh: not a huge deal, but going forward, please use "git pull --rebase"
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16:37 mikehh dukeleto: should I always include --rebase when I do a git pull (both directions?)
16:38 dukeleto mikehh: what do you mean "both directions" ?
16:38 dukeleto mikehh: --rebase is only for "git pull", not "git push"
16:38 dukeleto mikehh: is that what you are asking?
16:39 mikehh dukeleto: I have a git clone as a master and the I have local clones off that that I use eg in /home/mhu/parrot (i386) or /home/mhc/parrot (amd64)
16:41 mikehh dukeleto: I have been doing a git pull on the main clone and the pull from that for the local clone, when I have updated the local I pull it into the main clone and push from there
16:41 dukeleto mikehh: always use "git pull --rebase". It should Just Work.
16:41 dukeleto mikehh: please let me know if it doesn't
16:42 dukeleto mikehh: for your use case, i am pretty sure you can always do a "git pull --rebase"
16:42 mikehh dukeleto: 'k, I'll try on all the git pulls
16:43 dukeleto mikehh: thanks!
16:43 dukeleto mikehh: it will get rid of "useless merge commits"
16:44 dukeleto mikehh: "git pull" = "git fetch" + "git merge"
16:44 dukeleto mikehh: "git pull --rebase" = "git fetch" + "git rebase"
16:44 dukeleto mikehh: just so you know what is happening underneath
16:44 dukeleto mikehh: git fetch copies the remote index to your local index. merge and rebase work on your "working copy"
16:45 dukeleto mikehh: this should be explained in our git docs, but please let me know if there are some holes. I am sure some exist.
16:45 dukeleto mikehh: "working copy" = "the actual files in the directory structure"
16:45 dukeleto mikehh: make sense?
16:45 particle1 am i missing the friendly email to all parrot users that lists how to clone the new parrot git repo?
16:45 particle1 is now known as particle
16:46 particle the messages that mention the repo location are titled 'a slightly newer...'
16:46 darbelo particle: You are missing all emails to the list. parrot-dev is down.
16:46 particle aha.
16:48 dukeleto particle: i am talking to OSUOSL about it
16:48 dukeleto particle: the archives work, tho
16:48 dukeleto particle: git clone git@github.com:parrot/parrot.git
16:48 dukeleto particle: that is for core devs that have a commit bit
16:50 Topic for #parrot is now Parrot 2.9.1 Released | http://parrot.org | Log: irclog.perlgeek.de/parrot/today | Long live Git! https://github.com/parrot/parrot | git clone git://github.com/parrot/parrot.git | parrot-dev is down
16:52 dukeleto the "git clone" command in the topic should work for everybody. Core parrot devs should use "git clone git@github.com:parrot/parrot.git"
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16:57 nwellnhof What's the best way to move local branches from my old git-svn clone to my new git clone?
16:57 nwellnhof git format-patch and git am?
16:57 darbelo Sounds safe enough.
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17:03 cotto_work ~~
17:04 cotto_work Is parrot-dev up?  I just got some subscription confirmation messages.
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17:06 nwellnhof I also got some mails from parrot-dev about half an hour ago.
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17:16 jhelwig nwellnhof: You could add your old git-svn clone as a remote then cherry pick, but format-patch && am is probably the most bullet-proof way.
17:23 nwellnhof ok, i'll go with the format-patch and am combo.
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17:47 Andy OK, so the Parrot github repo is THE repo now.
17:47 Andy Not a copy of the svn repo.
17:48 darbelo Yep.
17:49 Andy What's work flow then?
17:49 Andy Who's pushing up to parrot/parrot from our forks?
17:49 Andy Mail says "You can now safely push to parrot/parrot on github" but who is "you"
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17:57 darbelo I read that as you = committers
17:57 darbelo There's a s git_workflow.pod file somewhere under docs/
17:58 moritz currently ./parrot_config revision returns a sha1
17:58 moritz could it instead return the output from git describe?
17:59 moritz that way we could compare revisions without having a parrot repo available
17:59 darbelo That'll probably involve a rewrite of the relevan config step.
17:59 moritz which one is it?
18:00 darbelo auto::revision IIRC
18:00 moritz thanks
18:01 PerlJam moritz: what do you mean by "compare revisions"?
18:01 moritz PerlJam: answer the question "is this parrot as least as new as $reference?"
18:01 PerlJam how does the output of "git describe" help with that?
18:02 moritz by providing a sequence number + origin (which is the last tag)
18:03 darbelo $ git describe --tags
18:03 darbelo RELEASE_2_9_1-197-g882b414
18:03 moritz $ git describe --tags
18:03 moritz RELEASE_2_9_1-204-gc762e42
18:03 moritz right, darbelo++ was faster
18:05 darbelo Yeah, but I'm 6 commits behind :)
18:05 moritz lib/Parrot/Revision.pm line 87
18:06 moritz so, should I change it?
18:10 darbelo I have no idea. To be honest. I'd float it at the next #ps
18:11 PerlJam good thing that's later today :)
18:12 PerlJam How does parrot use this revision interally?  If it's just for exact matching (and I think that's all it can be with the SHA1) then it should be fine.
18:13 darbelo It doesn't really. It's mostly used by HLLs to determine wether a given parrot is 'too old' for the build.
18:14 PerlJam With just a SHA1, you can't determine too-old unless you have a parrot repo around  (and even then, you can only answer "is this revision in my history")
18:14 darbelo PerlJam: Exactly. That's why moritz++ is suggesting the change.
18:15 darbelo My guess is that the config step was changed to the nearest git analog of the svn rev.
18:16 darbelo That's certainly good enough for rakudo's —gen-parrot stuff
18:16 moritz no.
18:16 darbelo Doesn't —gen-parrot fetch a specific rev?
18:16 darbelo I was sure it did.
18:17 moritz I'm a bit disappointed, because I've discussed this with dukeleto, and he seemd to agreed that git-describe was a good way to do it
18:17 moritz darbelo: it does, but only if $available_rev < $required_rev
18:21 whiteknight moritz's suggestion here does seem pretty worthwhile
18:21 cotto_work I'm working with osuosl to update the trac db table that stores svn revisions, git commit ids and commit messages.  In order to ensure that trac knows about all commits, lease hold off pushing to github until we're done.  It shouldn't be more than a few minutes.
18:21 whiteknight Is there any reason we can't capture both: the get-describe info and the SHA1 of the specific commit?
18:21 cotto_work *please
18:22 darbelo whiteknight: Keys only hold one value?
18:22 moritz whiteknight: I'm sure we can capture both; I just don't know which knobs to turn
18:22 moritz darbelo: there can be two keys
18:22 PerlJam there could be a "revision" key and a "tag" key (or something)
18:22 moritz let's say revision and git_hash
18:22 whiteknight darbelo: then add a second key
18:23 PerlJam moritz: works for me.
18:24 PerlJam to be clear,  git_hash is the SHA1, revision is the output of "git describe --tags"
18:24 moritz right
18:25 moritz but I'm not keen on duplicating the capture-cache-and-store mechanism that we currently use for the revision
18:25 whiteknight do we want the github issue tracker and github wiki to be active? I'm inclined to hide those things and redirect traffic to Trac
18:25 moritz so +1 from me, if somebody else does it :-)
18:26 moritz whiteknight: +1
18:27 darbelo whiteknight: Let's keep Trac. One migration is enough for this week.
18:28 cotto_work whiteknight: +1
18:29 whiteknight darbelo: I'm not talking about migration. There were links on github for a wiki and an issue tracker. I just disabled them
18:31 whiteknight dukeleto: can you add me as an "owner" of the parrot org?
18:31 whiteknight I figure all metacommitters need to be listed as "owners" to have the same capabilities as they did in svn
18:32 whiteknight I don't think Andy (petdance) is listed as a committer there yet, hence his confusion
18:32 Andy I guess I was figuring that there might be a change in workflow going to github, but apparently not.
18:33 Andy Committers is committers.
18:33 whiteknight Andy: yeah, no serious change in workflow
18:33 cotto_work Andy: not for now.
18:33 Andy Not complaining.
18:33 whiteknight there's room for some experimentation, but the meat and potatoes is the same
18:36 moritz I guess people will feel less averse against branching
18:37 cotto_work trac has been updated to know about the rewritten history.  Resume pushing to github.
18:38 cotto_work It looks like no commits were dropped on the floor either.
18:39 cotto_work good times
18:39 moritz \o/
18:40 cotto_work I hope we don't have to do that again, but the trac end of it will be easy enough to deal with if we do.
18:46 Andy Bravo for the work you guys did pulling this off.
18:46 Andy I was only vaguely aware of it and I expected something longer and more agonizing.
18:51 cotto_work Andy: thanks
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18:59 cotto_work http://matt.might.net/articles/by-e​xample-continuation-passing-style/
19:02 dukeleto cotto_work: i already posted that in here :)
19:02 cotto_work dukeleto: when?
19:03 cotto_work clearly I need to backscroll more often
19:03 dukeleto cotto_work: indeed you do. Earlier today.
19:03 dukeleto cotto_work: irclog.perlgeek.de is full of win
19:03 dukeleto moritz: i am looking at your patch now
19:04 dukeleto moritz: i like your patch, but we need to keep the "revision" config key around as a plain int, for all the HLL's and projects that already exist
19:05 dukeleto moritz: so, i would apply your patch, if it was stored in a different config key
19:05 moritz dukeleto: it's not an int right now.
19:05 dukeleto moritz: yeah, that is probably a bug too. It should be. That is my mistake.
19:05 moritz dukeleto: I don't understand the configure system enough to know how to install a new config key
19:06 dukeleto moritz: every HLL in existence now looks at the revision key and expects it to be an int
19:06 moritz so I'd happily delegate that, rather focus on the Rakudo side once git-describe output is available
19:07 dukeleto moritz: yeah, it is not exactly intuitive
19:07 dukeleto moritz: yep. Can you create a TT and include your patch, assign it to me, and maybe put a note that the patch needs to effect a differnent config key
19:08 dukeleto moritz: then you can go work on the rakudo side, and i will take care of it
19:08 moritz dukeleto: well, I need something to test the rakudo side with
19:08 dukeleto moritz: i think i will make the new key "sha1", for lack of a better name.
19:08 moritz wfm
19:08 moritz wait
19:08 moritz for the sha1, or for git-describe?
19:09 dukeleto moritz: oh, yes. we need both.
19:09 dukeleto moritz: the "version" key is already taken
19:09 dukeleto moritz: what should we use for the git-describe string?
19:09 * moritz has no idea... git_rev maybe?
19:09 moritz or maybe just git_describe
19:10 * dukeleto pontificates
19:10 moritz anyway, I'll open a ticket
19:10 dukeleto moritz++
19:11 dukeleto moritz: so, for your work, assume there will be 3 keys: 'revision', 'sha1', and $foo, where we haven't figured out $foo yet. But $foo will contain a git-describe string
19:11 mikehh dukeleto: has anybody chacked if make smoke works - about to try
19:11 dukeleto how long until #ps?
19:11 dukeleto mikehh: good idea. It should. It worked in git-svn clones
19:12 mikehh just over an hour
19:12 dukeleto mikehh++
19:16 cotto_work sorear: what happened to dalek?
19:20 cotto_work php--
19:20 cotto_work stupid case-insensitive function names
19:21 whiteknight Andy: I just added you as a committer
19:21 whiteknight (you should have been previously. Sorry about the oversight)
19:22 dukeleto who is a metacommitter?
19:23 whiteknight I assume most of the old board is
19:24 whiteknight "admins" on Trac include NotFound, allison, basic, chromatic, dukeleto, jhorwitz, jkeenan, particle, and myself
19:24 cotto_work basic?
19:25 whiteknight whether the Trac "admin" role is synonymous with our notion of "metacommitter" is another thing entirely. Those are just the people with the technical access to add committers
19:25 particle smash was a trac admin for a time, too
19:25 particle admin !=== metacommitter
19:25 whiteknight particle: yeah, that's true. But you need to be an admin on Trac to add committers
19:26 whiteknight so at the very least, it's necessary but not sufficient
19:26 particle correct.
19:26 allison particle: admin has equalled metacommitter since we switched to Trac, since the committer rights were administered through Trac
19:26 particle basic works at ousosl, btw
19:26 particle allison: basic is not a metacommitter.
19:26 cotto_work particle: good to know.  thanks
19:27 particle we added smash as a trac committer through the voting process
19:27 particle he was not a metacommitter.
19:27 allison particle: technically, basic was a meta committer, even though he wasn't a committer
19:28 particle we *could* create a trac privilege set called metacommitter, just for bookkeeping
19:28 particle but i think what we have now works.
19:28 whiteknight now that we're on github, Trac permissions involving metacommitters are moot
19:28 particle the confusion is limited to a handful of people who can quickly figure it out.
19:28 whiteknight but yes, for bookkeeping, we don't have a readily-available list of metacommitters
19:28 allison why on earth did  wayland have ticket modification permissions but not "developer" permissions?
19:29 allison and atrodo had wiki modification permissions but not "developer" permissions?
19:29 mikehh dukeleto: smoke worked - see #998 - we are still getting a lot of svn smokes at r49810
19:29 allison seems silly to grant wiki but not ticket, or ticket without wiki
19:29 particle allison: then join the privsets into one
19:30 allison particle: they are joined, it's called "developer" permissions
19:30 particle as long as they are separate and we don't have someone tasked with documenting and how maintaining the permissions are granted...
19:30 allison particle: (which doesn't grant commit access)
19:30 whiteknight we also use "developer" as a marker for committers
19:30 particle could we call them 'contributor' permissions, then?
19:30 whiteknight you need to be in the developer group to become a committer
19:30 particle and use 'committer' for committers?
19:31 particle or... call them 'member' rather than contributor or developer?
19:32 particle should all members have access to modify tickets and wiki items?
19:32 particle i think yes.
19:32 whiteknight yes
19:32 particle should this privilige be limited to members?
19:33 particle i think yes.
19:33 whiteknight becoming a member is sufficiently easy
19:33 whiteknight so, yes
19:33 sorear cotto_work: dalek is fine
19:33 particle so then they're the same, and the privilege set named 'developer' should be renamed to 'member' to reduce confusion.
19:34 particle and any doc for adding a member should mention that privilege
19:34 allison editing the wiki and tickets isn't restricted to members
19:34 allison the "member" permission only exists on www.parrot.org, not on Trac, and it's for voting
19:35 cotto_work sorear: why isn't he reporting any commits?
19:35 dukeleto mikehh: awesome. thanks
19:35 dukeleto so, again. who is a metacommitter?
19:35 particle hrmm... i suppose editing a wiki is a gateway to membership
19:35 allison whiteknight: you have to have "developer" permissions before you can get commit rights, but there's an extra step to grant commit rights
19:35 sorear cotto_work: oh...
19:35 allison dukeleto: a metacommitter is anyone who has access to add a new committer to the git repository
19:35 whiteknight allison: yes, Only developers can be committers. Necessary but not sufficient
19:36 whiteknight allison: he's asking for a list of current metacommitters
19:36 whiteknight we don't have a list handy. I suspect each metacommitters knows whether she is one or not
19:36 dukeleto allison: not "what",
19:36 dukeleto allison: "who"
19:36 allison we do have a list handy, it's in Trac
19:37 dukeleto i could argue about the "handy"-ness of that
19:37 whiteknight allison: okay, so all "admin"s on trac are metacommitters?
19:38 * dukeleto just wants to allow others to add github committers
19:38 allison NotFound, allison, chromatic, coke, dukeleto, jkeenan, particle, whiteknight
19:38 dukeleto allison: thanks!
19:38 allison whiteknight: all of them except the OSU OSL admins, yes
19:38 whiteknight okay, that's what I was thinking
19:39 dukeleto allison: all of those people can now add people to our github repo
19:40 dukeleto allison: as well as pmichaud, since he created the parrot org on github
19:46 davidfetter_vmw joined #parrot
19:46 davidfetter_vmw dukeleto, kudos on the SCM move!
19:47 moritz dukeleto: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/ticket/1845 btw
19:48 dukeleto davidfetter_vmw: danke
19:48 dukeleto moritz++
19:48 chromatic joined #parrot
19:49 davidfetter_vmw dukeleto, got any observations, or are you just trying to recover right now?
19:49 * davidfetter_vmw contemplating a blog post
19:51 dukeleto davidfetter_vmw: observations?
19:52 dukeleto davidfetter_vmw: it is sunny outside. That is one of my observations
19:52 davidfetter_vmw on the process, how it affected you, whether there's anything other projects might learn from it...
19:53 dukeleto davidfetter_vmw: well, i learned a bunch. i should probably write a blog post. But i have at least 4 other blog posts that are higher priority, related to Google Code-IN
19:53 davidfetter_vmw heh
19:54 * dukeleto is wondering where to commit the scripts that he used to convert the parrot repo
19:55 moritz separate repo
19:56 GeJ Bonjour everyone.
19:56 dukeleto GeJ: welcome
19:56 dukeleto GeJ: your commits are alive and well in parrot.git
19:57 darbelo aloha: clock?
19:57 aloha darbelo: darbelo: LAX: Tue, 11:57 PST / CHI: Tue, 13:57 CST / NYC: Tue, 14:57 EST / UTC: Tue, 19:57 UTC / LON: Tue, 19:57 GMT / BER: Tue, 20:57 CET / TOK: Wed, 04:57 JST / SYD: Wed, 06:57 EST
20:00 whiteknight chromatic: what is lacking in the GC MS 2 branch, just testing?
20:00 dukeleto mikehh: just to let you know, Parrot::Revision is wrong right now. I am going to fix it. Hold off on changing any tests related to it.
20:01 cotto_work #ps in 30
20:03 chromatic Just testing.
20:03 dukeleto chromatic: howdy
20:04 whiteknight chromatic: do you need timings and things too?
20:04 chromatic Timings would be very nice.
20:04 whiteknight okay. No promises for today, but starting tomorrow I will see what I can do
20:04 chromatic My guess is somewhere between 3-10%.
20:04 whiteknight over trunk, or over the generational_gc branch?
20:04 chromatic Over trunk.
20:04 whiteknight okay
20:05 whiteknight what is your branch's relationship to the generational_gc branch?
20:05 chromatic No relationship.
20:07 dukeleto Andy: i just replied to your email. let me know if you have other questions
20:07 whiteknight chromatic: ah, okay. So are the two going to have a combined beneficial effect when they're both merged?
20:08 chromatic I don't know.
20:08 dukeleto Andy: you can commit to parrot.git on github, so you don't need really need a fork, but you are free to have one
20:08 dukeleto Andy: it will be more work for you to keep your fork in sync, than to just have branches in the main repo
20:10 NotFound Please don't put me first in metacommiters lists, I'm possibly the less experienced with git and github,
20:11 hudnix left #parrot
20:12 mikehh chromatic: if you didn't get my messages - gc_ms2_sf branch gives about 10% improvement in rakudo build times, only 2-3% in stresstest
20:13 whiteknight NotFound: metacommitting is just an interface on github. No knowledge of git required to add committers
20:14 chromatic What's the Rakudo stresstest?
20:15 mikehh spectest with long running tests
20:15 NotFound whiteknight: people usually assume that the first on a list is the appropiate to answer related (or unrelated) questions.
20:18 dukeleto NotFound: i can take you off the list if you would like. Do you want to not be a metacommitter on github?
20:18 tcurtis joined #parrot
20:18 dukeleto NotFound: I just copy and pasted allison's list of metacommitters
20:18 dukeleto NotFound: did not mean to put you first
20:18 cotto_work hi tcurtis
20:18 dukeleto tcurtis: werd up
20:20 allison NotFound: and my list was sorted by Trac order, which puts all capital letters before lowercase letters, sorry about that
20:21 NotFound No problem, but if someone is making a wiki page or something please don't.
20:21 dukeleto NotFound: that is what you get for capitalizing ;)
20:21 dukeleto NotFound: 10-4
20:22 hudnix joined #parrot
20:28 kid51 joined #parrot
20:29 mikehh chromatic: I ran the full rakudo stresstest -> spectest + 2 extra tests - integration/advent2009-day17.t and S03-operators/range-int.t
20:30 mikehh chromatic: on both amd64 and i386 - same results as trunk - a bit faster
20:32 * dukeleto misses dalek
20:32 dukeleto mikehh++
20:33 mikehh ain't it past time for #ps
20:33 dalek parrot: 0abb5b0 | leto++ | lib/Parrot/Revision.pm:
20:33 dalek parrot: [lib] Make Parrot::Revision not break old HLLs
20:33 dalek parrot: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/​0abb5b02d61edd291c11f35e113a9b7fbc75d33d
20:33 dalek parrot: 0058ed8 | leto++ | t/steps/auto/revision-01.t:
20:33 dalek parrot: Revert "Modify test for git migration"
20:33 dalek parrot:
20:33 dalek parrot: This reverts commit 29ccd1d401d59c405cc59dc3947f27cf6b3bfec4.
20:33 dalek parrot: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/​0058ed83456be6dd906ab2944832948e05139d1e
20:33 dalek parrot: 693bb4e | leto++ | / (2 files):
20:33 dalek parrot: [t] TODO out some config tests relating to revisions
20:33 dalek parrot: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/​693bb4ed4db0d37c69f2f65d2908828449a05ed2
20:33 kid51 parrotsketch has begun
20:34 dukeleto yay, dalek is back!
20:34 dukeleto sorear++
20:36 tcurtis Hi, dukeleto, cotto_work. Sorry about the slow reply. Building gcc in a vm appears to work my laptop quite hard.
20:37 dukeleto tcurtis: indeed.
20:38 kid51 tcurtis: I've found building GCC *anywhere* works a box hard ;-)
20:39 lucian joined #parrot
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20:46 perlite left #parrot
20:49 rurban dukeleto++ for the git conversion
20:49 sorear people are having dalek issues?
20:49 dalek rakudo: 4d33bae | masak++ | src/core/Cool-str.pm:
20:49 dalek rakudo: [Cool-str] fixed .trans case where @changes is []
20:49 dalek rakudo:
20:49 dalek rakudo: This un-breaks one of the tests in trans.rakudo.
20:49 dalek rakudo: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/​4d33bae5919d08bcf2347b0e5a1e3eb49c67e426
20:51 dukeleto rurban: thanks.
20:51 dukeleto sorear: it seems to be back now.
20:52 whiteknight where does dalek live?
20:52 whiteknight feather?
20:52 sorear appflux.net
20:52 sorear diakopter's VPS
20:53 rurban dukeleto++ git is a massive improvements for working on branches and everything else. gitk forever
20:53 cotto_work dukeleto++
20:58 * cotto_work wonders how long we'll keep referring to "trunk"
20:58 sorear forever, if we want
20:58 sorear master is renamable
20:58 sorear perl5 git has all development on the "blead" branch
21:01 whiteknight dukeleto: what's the problem with forks?
21:01 dukeleto master is master
21:02 dukeleto whiteknight: for non-committers, they are fine. For core committers, they are redudant
21:03 whiteknight how are they any more redundant than a branch?
21:03 chromatic Seems like a matter of preference to me.
21:04 dukeleto chromatic: it is a matter of preference. The preference to do and create more work for others, or less.
21:04 dukeleto forks require pull requests
21:04 dukeleto forks will have divergent histories
21:04 dukeleto forks will create more merge conflicts
21:04 dukeleto do you want me to go no?
21:04 dukeleto go on, even.
21:05 dukeleto if someone does it correctly, a fork is basically an epsilon more of work.
21:05 allison parrotsketch time changed this week?
21:05 dukeleto If they don't do it correctly, it creates a bunch more work.
21:05 allison (I guess because of daylight saving time)
21:05 cotto_work allison: yes
21:05 whiteknight forks don't require pull requests. I cloned my fork, added parrot/parrot as a remote, and pushed to it directly
21:05 dukeleto Core committers should commit to parrot.git branches, but I am not going to demand it. It is "strongly recommended"
21:06 dukeleto whiteknight: you are a core committer. yes, you know how to use them correctly. You know which remotes to push to.
21:06 allison rather than derail the meeting, this was my report, a prototype sandboxing vm: http://people.canonical.com/~a​llison/src/larch-0.0.1.tar.gz
21:06 dukeleto I don't care if people fork, unless it starts to create more work for me.
21:06 whiteknight gotcha
21:06 chromatic Sandboxing how?
21:07 allison demonstrating the value of interpreter-level sandboxing to linux developers who only know about OS-level sandboxing
21:07 dukeleto allison: is there a repo for that? or only a tarball?
21:07 chromatic CAPs?
21:07 allison also, a permission model that Ubuntu wants to use
21:07 allison dukeleto: it's a local bzr repository, just a prototype
21:07 whiteknight is this the kid of idea that Parrot will want to adopt?
21:08 whiteknight kid -> kind
21:08 allison whiteknight: I'm not sure
21:08 dukeleto allison: i am reading the README. Looks very cool.
21:08 allison whiteknight: the sandboxing is similar, and the permissions model would certainly have benefits for Parrot
21:08 whiteknight obviously we do need more security/sandboxing stuff. It's a matter of finding a good model to follow
21:08 allison whiteknight: as in, Parrot could be the avenue for implementing this for Ubuntu
21:08 chromatic And yet again I regret never typing my notes on Lorito and sandboxing.
21:09 allison chromatic: well, you and I talked about it, so I know what you were going to write
21:09 whiteknight allison: anything parrot can do to get more adopted by more people  is something that we shoudl always seriously consider
21:10 chromatic The only tricky part is the graph walking if you have capabilities as composed op metadata.
21:10 * whiteknight dreams about being to Ubuntu what Dalvik is to Android
21:10 chromatic ... but I suppose you could tag basic blocks in bytecode with their required caps....
21:10 allison whiteknight: this permissions model was interesting, because it a) didn't assume that permissions would be fixed at the install/config level, but instead assumes that users will be determining what they want an app to have access to
21:10 chromatic ... and if they need runtime checks.
21:11 allison whiteknight: and also, doesn't fall into the Android trap of asking for everything when you install the app, which is annoying, and not particularly useful
21:11 allison whiteknight: so, it's a dynamic, runtime, user-controlled permission model
21:11 allison whiteknight: seems quite... parroty
21:11 dukeleto allison: /me likes
21:11 whiteknight you had me at "dynamic" :)
21:14 * allison remembers to set parrotsketch and sixperl back by an hour in calendar
21:18 whiteknight attending #ps makes me so happy
21:18 whiteknight I've missed it these last 6 months
21:19 whiteknight tcurtis: make sure you do a dry-run between now and then. I'll give it a try myself too
21:20 dukeleto whiteknight: good to see you there
21:20 dukeleto allison: if you subscribe to the google calendar, it is in UTC
21:20 dukeleto allison: should make your life easier
21:20 dukeleto allison: it made my life easier
21:20 * whiteknight just whitelisted the github commit emailer to parrot-commits
21:21 allison dukeleto: yeah, but it doesn't give me alerts, so not useful
21:21 dalek parrot: 9456558 | leto++ | lib/Parrot/Revision.pm:
21:21 dalek parrot: [lib] Make Parrot::Revision lie correctly, darbelo++
21:21 dalek parrot: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/​94565580d50f736409cdf2d7495fe9003cf465c4
21:22 dukeleto allison: you can set up google calendar to send you SMS's. That is what I have it do.
21:22 whiteknight I had it sending me emails for a while
21:22 dukeleto allison: you have to verify your phone # in the google calendar config first, then it will show up as a type of reminder
21:23 allison dukeleto/whiteknight: I do it all the time on events in my calendar, usually popup and email reminders, but not on external calendars
21:26 whiteknight #parrotsketch++
21:27 whiteknight still has that new-chatroom smell
21:27 darbelo left #parrot
21:29 whiteknight I think we can get gc_ms_2 and gsoc_nci merged this week. That's a good goal
21:29 * dukeleto squeals with delight
21:30 cotto_work It's a good day.
21:30 kid51 left #parrot
21:30 whiteknight a good day indeed
21:30 whiteknight but on that note, I have to leave. Later
21:30 whiteknight left #parrot
21:34 cotto_work sorear: is dalek getting user aliases from CREDITS on github now?
21:36 bluescreen left #parrot
21:37 perlite_ is now known as perlite
21:42 hudnix left #parrot
21:43 dukeleto allison: which language do you propose "larch policies" would be written in?
21:45 bacek left #parrot
21:46 hudnix joined #parrot
21:46 allison dukeleto: they aren't designed to be extensible modules (because that would be a security risk), so the policies would be baked into the core VM
21:47 allison dukeleto: they could ultimately be written as C modules, but they should never be HLL modules
21:47 allison (HLLs are contained within the sandbox, and so aren't allowed to modify the boundaries of the sandbox)
21:47 hudnix left #parrot
21:48 allison dukeleto: think of it as similar to a browser, where HLLs are javascript
21:49 allison dukeleto: you could be running any arbitrary code downloaded off the internet, and need to be exceedingly paranoid about what that code might do
21:50 dukeleto allison: sure. so you are saying that policies can only be set at compile-time ?
21:51 NotFound First push to parrot git repo done! Back in business :)
21:52 cotto_work NotFound: great
21:53 dalek parrot: a0f3af4 | NotFound++ | t/pmc/string.t:
21:53 dalek parrot: test String set_string_keyed vtable
21:53 dalek parrot: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/​a0f3af439c8eb065c6edd4ab84557471d6202c69
21:53 dukeleto NotFound++
21:54 NotFound What about http://tapir2.ro.vutbr.cz/cover/cover-results/ ? Will it be updated from the git repo?
21:56 allison dukeleto: sort of. The list of available permission sets can only be set at compile time, but users can grant and remove individual permissions for individual apps at runtime
21:57 allison dukeleto: once an app is granted a permission by a user (like "has the ability to access my address book") that permission is always granted to that app, everytime it runs
21:57 allison dukeleto: kind of like Facebook, but less viral and permission hungry
21:57 allison dukeleto: (so, apps don't get to request permission to the kitchen sink)
21:58 chromatic Are permissions parametric?
21:59 allison chromatic: meaning, can they act on more information than the Application and the User?
21:59 allison chromatic: what did you have in mind?
21:59 sorear cotto_work: yes
22:00 cotto_work nice work.  sorear++
22:00 sorear What are larch policies?
22:00 chromatic can_read_files[in_home_directory]
22:00 chromatic That's more specific than can_read_files.
22:00 allison chromatic: I would see those as two different permissions, but in more of a hierarchy
22:00 sorear can_read[$HOME/.ssh/id_rsa] subsumes quite a lot of other permissions
22:01 allison chromatic: another example might be the ability to read from the address book, but only for a specific user or set of users
22:01 chromatic You can view sandboxed op dispatch as a degenerate form of multiple dispatch with all the concomitant narrowifications.
22:02 allison chromatic: at which point, you might be looking for email address parameter
22:03 allison chromatic: that's what's interesting about this sandboxing model, is there is no selective disabling of certain ops
22:03 chromatic Right.
22:03 tcurtis left #parrot
22:03 allison chromatic: instead there's "ops that don't require advanced permissions" and "ops that do require advanced permissions"
22:03 sorear What are you talking about?  Is it on the wiki?
22:03 allison chromatic: and then checking against a permissions et
22:03 allison sorear: sorry, it's a prototype I wrote this week
22:04 chromatic I drew the line between "ops with permissions checkable at runtime" and "ops with permissions checkable at compile/load/verification time".
22:04 allison sorear: http://people.canonical.com/~a​llison/src/larch-0.0.1.tar.gz
22:05 allison chromatic: the first are useful for embedding in postgres, etc, but not so much for the application sandbox
22:05 allison chromatic: really, not at all for the application sandbox, because it has to be a "one-size-fits-all" install from a single standard package
22:05 allison chromatic: like a browser
22:06 sorear is larch connected to lorito?
22:06 chromatic I might be comfortable letting Google Gears for GMail write to a specific directory, but I'm not letting Facebook write to my local hard drive.
22:06 allison sorear: not particularly, but exploring other ideas we've had for Parrot
22:07 allison chromatic: exactly, your choices will be for a specific app
22:08 allison chromatic: it has to ask for your permission before it can do anything
22:08 nwellnhof joined #parrot
22:08 allison (anything outside of the sandbox, that is)
22:14 dalek parrot: 7161db0 | nwellnhof++ | compilers/opsc/src/Ops/Emitter.pm:
22:14 dalek parrot: [opsc] Don't output $Id$
22:14 dalek parrot: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/​7161db00b82bf80b110e3b8d337548a52bb26d2d
22:15 hudnix joined #parrot
22:16 cotto_work nwellnhof++ for noticing that.  My brain refused to do much more work after reviewing the commits that removed the bulk of those.
22:19 nwellnhof cotto: I noticed it when I ran ops2c while testing the remove_charset_ops branch.
22:20 nwellnhof I'm about to merge that branch now, btw
22:20 cotto_work merge away
22:20 nwellnhof I'm still running some tests...
22:22 nwellnhof It's basically only one commit, but I'm doing a branch merge to see how it works with git.
22:22 dukeleto nwellnhof++
22:22 cotto_work Our karma system favors such a workflow.
22:29 masonkramer_ joined #parrot
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22:31 hudnix left #parrot
22:33 hudnix joined #parrot
22:34 dukeleto This may be relevant to larch policies: http://download.oracle.com/javase/1.4.​2/docs/guide/security/permissions.html
22:34 dukeleto at least to compare and contrast.
22:35 dalek parrot: a9e814c | nwellnhof++ | / (8 files):
22:35 dalek parrot: Merge remote branch 'origin/remove_charset_ops'
22:35 dalek parrot: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/​a9e814c7107ea0ea97c6a9a322ef07a968e79564
22:36 dukeleto nwellnhof++
22:36 nwellnhof dukeleto++ # for all your git work
22:37 dukeleto nwellnhof: thanks!
22:37 dukeleto nwellnhof: make sure to delete your merged branch
22:37 dukeleto nwellnhof: git push origin :branch_name_to_delete
22:37 dukeleto nwellnhof: don't forget the ":" :)
22:38 nwellnhof dukeleto: Yes, I've done this before. It's a bit weird.
22:39 nwellnhof There are also some of my other old branches that are still around on github. I'll delete them too.
22:39 dukeleto nwellnhof: thanks for cleaning up :)
22:40 dukeleto nwellnhof: that syntax comes from the general form of : git push remote local_branch:remote_branch
22:40 dukeleto nwellnhof: when you don't give a local_branch, it means "delete the remote branch" instead of pushing local_branch to remote_branch
22:40 dukeleto nwellnhof: that is how it makes sense to me
22:42 dukeleto nwellnhof: i think this is described in the git_workflow.pod
22:42 nwellnhof OK, 34 branches left.
22:42 dukeleto Some of our branches don't seem to ever have a change of merging.
22:43 dukeleto Some haven't been touched in over a year.
22:45 PerlJam left #parrot
22:50 whiteknight joined #parrot
22:54 bacek_at_work tilda tilda
22:56 M_o_C left #parrot
22:58 cotto_work ~~
23:07 bluescreen joined #parrot
23:12 dukeleto bacek_at_work: i expect your productivity to go up 100000000% now that you don't have to use git-svn. I fear the number of commits that will flow through your fingers.
23:12 plobsing oh noes. it's the bacek singularity
23:14 dukeleto 1/bacek = OH MY GOD, IT'S MADE OF COMMITS
23:16 whiteknight is anybody seeing emails from github on parrot-commits?
23:17 chromatic yes
23:18 whiteknight okay
23:18 chromatic They don't include diffs, but it's a start.
23:21 whiteknight I haven't seen any yet. I don't think I get sent a copy of emails I moderate
23:32 Kulag left #parrot
23:32 Kulag joined #parrot
23:45 plobsing left #parrot
23:46 plobsing joined #parrot
23:49 dalek TT #1778 closed by nwellnhof++: Charset opcodes are deprecated
23:49 dalek TT #1778: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/ticket/1778
23:59 dalek rakudo: e6486e5 | masak++ | src/core/Any-list.pm:
23:59 dalek rakudo: [Any-list] added &elems sub

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