Camelia, the Perl 6 bug

IRC log for #parrot, 2010-11-12

Parrot | source cross referenced

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Time Nick Message
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00:16 dalek winxed: r674 | NotFound++ | trunk/winxedst1.winxed:
00:16 dalek winxed: simplify null checkers in stage 1
00:16 dalek winxed: review: http://code.google.com/p/w​inxed/source/detail?r=674
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00:41 cotto_work new proposal: implement Lorito in Minecraft - http://www.minecraftforum.net/​viewtopic.php?f=35&t=69299
00:49 seanstickle Worst steganography ever
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01:08 atrodo cotto_work> +1 from me.  I'll get right on it
01:12 cotto_work If you thought Rakudo was slow before, just you wait.
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01:57 cotto ``
02:04 * cotto is shiftless
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02:11 * GeJ pushes @cotto, 'stuff';
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02:17 chromatic I probably won't have time to merge the GC MS2 SF branch before next Tuesday.  Volunteers welcome.
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02:25 GeJ chromatic: out of curiosity, what's the branch about? Is it related to bacek's generational_gc branch?
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03:08 chromatic GeJ, it's merely tunings to trunk's existing GC.
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03:19 bacek_at_work chromatic, speaking of which. Can you take a look at https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/​a6f582ae903e2cc8503f3da5c24d53e303411b5f please?
03:20 chromatic Looking.
03:22 chromatic Thinking about it for a while.
03:23 bacek_at_work chromatic, ok
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04:32 chromatic bacek_at_work, it'd be nice to get rid of sweeping.
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04:34 dalek parrot: b63472c | plobsing++ | config/gen/config_pm.pm:
04:34 dalek parrot: add pkg-config equivalents to parrot_config
04:34 dalek parrot: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/​b63472c03692d16a884dd4200bcef9e0267b97a8
04:34 dalek parrot: 748cb9d | plobsing++ | docs/embed.pod:
04:34 dalek parrot: change docs to use parrot_config
04:34 dalek parrot:
04:34 dalek parrot: pkg-config has problems (TT #1842).
04:34 dalek parrot: autoconf isn't used by any embedders ATM, so is purely speculative.
04:34 dalek parrot: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/​748cb9d0149ee5f7840ca1055fa48af266f130e3
04:37 dalek parrot: b63472c | plobsing++ | config/gen/config_pm.pm:
04:37 dalek parrot: add pkg-config equivalents to parrot_config
04:37 dalek parrot: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/​b63472c03692d16a884dd4200bcef9e0267b97a8
04:37 dalek parrot: 748cb9d | plobsing++ | docs/embed.pod:
04:37 dalek parrot: change docs to use parrot_config
04:37 dalek parrot:
04:37 dalek parrot: pkg-config has problems (TT #1842).
04:37 dalek parrot: autoconf isn't used by any embedders ATM, so is purely speculative.
04:37 dalek parrot: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/​748cb9d0149ee5f7840ca1055fa48af266f130e3
04:39 plobsing OMG double commit report. what does it mean?
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04:43 simon_ haha
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04:44 GeJ plobsing: double karma?
04:44 sorear plobsing: it means somebody forgot to remove parrot from the poll list after setting up push notifications
04:44 cotto GeJ, yup.  If you're lucky, you too can trick dalek.
04:44 sorear I don't know who to blame though
04:45 bacek_at_work chromatic, it is. And recursive marking too. But I'm not able to figure out exact way how to do it.
04:45 GeJ purl, always blame purl.
04:45 cotto even when absent, it's her fault
04:46 GeJ exactly.
04:49 GeJ Pardon my ignorance, but how would work a M&S GC without the sweep part? (I don't know zilch about GC in general)
04:51 bacek_at_work GeJ, http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/​wiki/GCSweepFreeImplementation
04:52 bacek_at_work Basically - we gather all live objects into separate list. We still have "sweep" but iterate only actually dead objects, not whole lot.
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05:16 chromatic I still think there's a way to combine generational GC with sweep-free.
05:16 chromatic Every freshly allocated GCable goes into a (skip list?) called the newest generation.
05:17 chromatic Any time we do a full GC to promote from that generation, we know we can immediately collect everything in that newest generation.
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08:52 dukeleto 'ello
09:30 moritz oh hai
09:31 nopaste "moritz" at 192.168.1.3 pasted "compare git-describe output" (28 lines) at http://nopaste.snit.ch/25560
09:32 moritz I've written the code in the nopaste for rakudo's configure system, so that we can compare git-describe output with a reference value in the same format
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12:44 dalek parrot/tt855_debugging_options: f0e1b5c | jkeenan++ | / (5 files):
12:44 dalek parrot/tt855_debugging_options: Eliminate sub _is_debug_setting_valid() in config/inter/progs.pm.  Adjust 3
12:44 dalek parrot/tt855_debugging_options: step tests accordingly.
12:44 dalek parrot/tt855_debugging_options: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/​f0e1b5c03e75ea03feca430586570a369deab7e3
12:44 dalek parrot/tt855_debugging_options: b1959be | jkeenan++ | / (4 files):
12:44 dalek parrot/tt855_debugging_options: Move processing of 'ccwarn' to location of other options.  Rename sub
12:44 dalek parrot/tt855_debugging_options: _set_debug_and_warn() to _set_debug(). Adjust 3 step tests accordingly.
12:44 dalek parrot/tt855_debugging_options: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/​b1959be6f051d9d9341478c632b993efa4fc033e
12:44 dalek parrot/tt855_debugging_options: 019dac0 | jkeenan++ | / (3 files):
12:44 dalek parrot/tt855_debugging_options: Eliminate profiling option.
12:44 dalek parrot/tt855_debugging_options: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/​019dac0f23d59593aa22934da655e41f4fa92939
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13:35 whiteknight good morning, #parrot
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14:29 dukeleto moritz++
14:30 dukeleto moritz: the question of the hour: Where should that code live?
14:30 moritz dukeleto: that's not the question of the hour
14:31 moritz dukeleto: the question of the hour is "when will git-describe output be available, so that I can actually use it?"
14:32 moritz my original plan was to put it in a module in rakudo
14:32 moritz but I'm open to other options too
14:34 dukeleto moritz: i am at a conference and travelling, so I have not been as quick as I would like. But i have a branch for git_describe. It is close
14:35 dukeleto moritz: I promise I will give you something to use soon
14:35 moritz oh, I missed the branch
14:35 * moritz takes a look
14:35 dukeleto moritz: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/tree/git_describe
14:36 dukeleto moritz: it doesn't yet put the key in parrot_config, that code adds the config step to detect it
14:36 dukeleto moritz: so it is half done
14:36 dukeleto moritz: and i wrote a few tests
14:38 moritz is it avaialable as config key already?
14:41 dukeleto moritz: i don't think so. But it is a matter of writing a few lines. I just don't know where those lines live.
14:42 moritz :-)
14:45 PerlJam Hmm.
14:46 dukeleto How do i add something to parrot_config
14:46 PerlJam I think the regex on line 35 of config/auto/git_describe.pm is incorrect.  It uses dots between the numbers and the tags have _ between the numbers.
14:46 rurban Note that the config hash is already too big
14:47 moritz rurban: adding a few bytes won't kill it
14:47 dukeleto rurban: No trolling right now. We are trying to make something actually work.
14:47 PerlJam dukeleto++
14:47 dukeleto PerlJam: the . is not as strict. it will match a _
14:47 rurban all the big instal strings can be stripped, really
14:47 moritz rurban: I think it's more a question if we actully need to store the list of config steps, for example
14:47 PerlJam dukeleto: no, it's literal dots:   /^(RELEASE_|REL_)\d+\.\d+\.\d+~g[a-z0-9]+$/i
14:47 dukeleto rurban: feel free to make a branch to remove the cruft from parrot_config, that would be awesome
14:47 rurban the version string of course is fine and small enough
14:48 dukeleto PerlJam: touche! Thanks.
14:48 rurban already did but rejected ages ago
14:48 dukeleto rurban: that will really help on small memory systems
14:48 moritz dukeleto: mayb use [_\W] instead
14:48 dukeleto rurban: we are in the age of git, try again :)
14:48 rurban ok, when I have my p5 jit working finally
14:50 dalek parrot/git_describe: 79cf2c7 | dukeleto++ | config/auto/git_describe.pm:
14:50 dalek parrot/git_describe: [config] Fix the regex that matches a git-describe string, PerlJam++
14:50 dalek parrot/git_describe: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/​79cf2c7bff6906a42d2c130202cd97044f9f0d6a
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14:50 dukeleto Parrot::Config::Generated !
14:51 dalek parrot: 8123d2d | moritz++ | lib/Parrot/Configure/Compiler.pm:
14:51 dalek parrot: fix typo in lib/Parrot/Configure/Compiler.pm
14:51 dalek parrot: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/​8123d2d2c10d345f8d98b942f6d1900d00e54b1c
14:52 dukeleto this rabbit hole is deep
14:54 dukeleto Parrot::Configure::Data seems to be it
14:54 dalek parrot: 8123d2d | moritz++ | lib/Parrot/Configure/Compiler.pm:
14:54 dalek parrot: fix typo in lib/Parrot/Configure/Compiler.pm
14:54 dalek parrot: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/​8123d2d2c10d345f8d98b942f6d1900d00e54b1c
14:55 moritz did I accidentally commit this in two branches? or was one a commit without a branch?
14:55 * moritz confused
14:55 PerlJam perhaps it's just dalek that is confused.
14:55 whiteknight everybody is confused!
14:56 moritz right, it's the same hash twice
14:56 PerlJam overlapping RSS feed info?
14:56 * moritz too distracted to investiage
14:57 * dukeleto tests something
14:57 dukeleto sorear: ping!
14:57 dukeleto sorear: we are getting dupes, see above. Is this a bug on the github side, or on the hook side?
15:05 PerlJam aha!  lib/Parrot/Configure/Step/List.pm
15:08 dukeleto PerlJam++++++++++
15:08 dalek parrot/git_describe: c11d574 | dukeleto++ | config/auto/git_describe.pm:
15:08 dalek parrot/git_describe: [config] This almost adds the 'describe' key to the config hash
15:08 dalek parrot/git_describe: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/​c11d574fa6441373cdf1dc4e4b09c9eaf6aff324
15:08 PerlJam parrot config system is a maze of twisty passages.
15:09 dalek parrot/git_describe: b18101c | dukeleto++ | lib/Parrot/Configure/Step/List.pm:
15:09 dalek parrot/git_describe: [config] Add git_describe to the config step list
15:09 dalek parrot/git_describe: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/​b18101c27a7b33e09bb78bacc896e6c1232a7939
15:09 dukeleto PerlJam: all alike
15:09 dukeleto the key is called 'git_describe', my previous commit msg is misleading
15:12 dalek parrot/git_describe: 4899abb | dukeleto++ | config/auto/git_describe.pm:
15:12 dalek parrot/git_describe: [config] Fix bugs and make the git_describe config key work
15:12 dalek parrot/git_describe: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/​4899abbcdff888b0a238885272757fee2a59111d
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15:16 dalek parrot/git_describe: 0d855e0 | dukeleto++ | config/auto/git_describe.pm:
15:16 dalek parrot/git_describe: [config] Remove a dupe config key for our describe string
15:16 dalek parrot/git_describe: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/​0d855e05cd5e8821b2bbed5e7ba7ce8649828f63
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16:06 * whiteknight is ready for this long week to be over
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16:30 dukeleto why is Parrot not mentioned? http://developers.slashdot.org/story/10/11/12/​1439236/The-Coming-War-Over-the-Future-of-Java
16:31 moritz dukeleto: it is in one of the comments
16:31 moritz and I can understand it well, because parrot isn't (yet) great for statically typed languages
16:31 moritz and that's what the article is about
16:32 moritz though I do admit that mentioning Go as an alternative to Java seems weird
16:35 dukeleto moritz: comments don't exist
16:35 dukeleto moritz: but yes, i just saw that :)
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16:55 NotFound As usual, lot of people mix java language and java VM
16:57 NotFound I'm tempted to add a comment suggesting winxed as One language to rule them all.
16:59 NotFound Then other suggestng perl6, and start a flame war.
16:59 whiteknight We need to improve Parrot performance significantly if we want to get into that conversation. We need to increase execution speed by 50% at least
16:59 whiteknight And when you look at something like firefox which had 3x performance improvements in its newest JS engine, that is something that we can do
17:00 atrodo NotFound> Oh, a fake flame war to increase parrot exposure.  Nice idea
17:01 NotFound The funny thing is that in spite of all comments about the speed of compiled and strongly typed java, all java based applications are slow.
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17:02 NotFound So the thinhg looks like; "We need a fast VM in order to run horribly slow libraries and frameworks"
17:02 whiteknight not "all", but you're right that performance of java applications is never as good as it should be
17:03 atrodo NotFound> I think that's it right there
17:03 whiteknight many java applications are written as a simple mashup of existing libraries
17:05 NotFound Some time ago I read about how they make python in java look faster. They showed a prompt before finishing initialization X-)
17:05 atrodo Microsoft did that for years with office
17:06 NotFound I'm not opposed to use tricks to avoid abusing user patience, but using that tricks to support "java is not so slow" claims...
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17:18 whiteknight We don't need tricks. We need to do some serious hard work
17:18 C0ke is now known as Coke
17:19 jnthn fwiw, I have built pretty fast response stuff atop of a JVM before. Wasn't using a load of GUI frameworks and stuff though. :)
17:19 * Coke writes code that compiles down to java that compiles down to bytecode every day and it's more than fast enough.
17:19 Coke (and much faster than anything I do on parrot)
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17:22 whiteknight right. Parrot has some major work to do
17:22 whiteknight but we've known that
17:22 Coke aloha: tell bacek that aloha would be much more useful as a messagebot if you knew how old the messages were.
17:22 Coke aloha?
17:22 dukeleto Coke: we need bacek to work on the GC, not irc bots ;)
17:23 Coke aloha: msg bacek that aloha would be much more useful as a messagebot if you knew how old the messages were.
17:23 aloha Coke: OK. I'll deliver the message.
17:24 Coke aloha: msg cotto: I have no idea how old your reparrot request is, but I just got it, and I added it on 10/24
17:24 aloha Coke: OK. I'll deliver the message.
17:24 Coke whiteknight: I just asked robert to update your creds... but I see you already got privs.
17:24 whiteknight Coke: yeah, he forwarded me a copy of an email he sent to me a while back that I had lost
17:25 whiteknight stupid me was using the wrong password to get in
17:25 whiteknight I forgot to use my svn.perl.org password, and hilarity ensued
17:26 * Coke wonders if it's worth hacking on partcl again any time soon.
17:27 whiteknight what is the current state of partcl?
17:27 dukeleto Coke: sure, why not? Random segfaults?
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17:29 dukeleto Lorito?
17:29 * dukeleto shakes fists that there is no infobot in here
17:29 dukeleto aloha, Lorito?
17:29 aloha dukeleto: Lorito is "little parrot" in spanish or http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/wiki/Lorito
17:30 Coke whiteknight: slow, changes in parrot causing me to fail tests, switch to git breaking my config script,
17:30 dukeleto Coke: i can help you with your config script
17:30 dukeleto Coke: let me at it
17:31 Coke https://github.com/partcl/partcl
17:31 whiteknight Coke: there is space on smolder for partcl smoke reports to be uploaded. Would it be beneficial for us to get that set up?
17:31 dukeleto Coke: i have a commit bit. where is the file?
17:31 Coke er, https://github.com/partcl
17:31 atrodo aloha, Lorito is also http://github.com/atrodo/lorito
17:31 aloha atrodo: Okay.
17:32 atrodo aloha, Lorito is also http://github.com/ekiru/yalp-asm
17:32 aloha atrodo: Okay.
17:32 Coke dukeleto: the main script is the top level Configure.pl
17:32 atrodo aloha, Lorito?
17:32 aloha atrodo: Lorito is "little parrot" in spanish or http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/wiki/Lorito or http://github.com/atrodo/lorito or http://github.com/ekiru/yalp-asm
17:32 Coke there is also build/gen_parrot.pl, though that is copied from rakudo and I don't use it.
17:33 Coke whiteknight: ideally, yes. realistically, no, because when tests fail, nothing happens.
17:33 whiteknight what do you mean nothing happens?
17:34 Coke I mean I report a parrot bug and nothing happens.
17:34 dukeleto sounds like something a product manager wants to hear...
17:34 whiteknight that's why I'm asking
17:35 whiteknight Coke: Which is the current "master" for partcl? The old one or the new PCT-based one?
17:36 whiteknight in the older version, I remember having a hell of a hard time debugging things
17:36 Coke no new work is being done on the old one. I only patch it so that "make test" continues to work and parrot gets exercised.
17:37 Coke you can debug the new one? that makes one of us. ;)
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17:37 Coke as far as keeping the old one working with parrot, the last defect that was introduced I didn't bother fixing, I just skipped those tests.
17:37 Coke (there's still an open parrot ticket, I think, but I gave up on it.)
17:38 whiteknight Coke: I'm on much more familiar ground debugging something pure-pir than I am when custom PMC types are mixed in
17:39 whiteknight Coke: Any new and outstanding tickets for partcl can be assigned to me
17:39 Coke whiteknight: any tickets for partcl are marked with "lang: tcl"
17:40 Coke enjoy.
17:40 Coke s/are/should be/, to cover myself.
17:44 whiteknight well, all tickets marked tcl and without a current owner are now owned by me
17:44 whiteknight in the future, when you have tickets for partcl, assign them directly to me
17:45 Coke whiteknight: you missed #1811
17:45 Coke whiteknight: if I remember to, sure.
17:45 whiteknight oh, I didn't hit submit
17:45 plobsing ping dukeleto
17:46 tadzik atrodo: ping
17:46 atrodo tadzik> pong
17:46 Coke whiteknight: looks like you also missed #760, #966, #1028, #731...
17:47 Coke #691 hasn't been touched in 16 months.
17:47 Coke #721 in 13...
17:47 whiteknight I own all those
17:47 Coke #748 in 17.
17:47 tadzik atrodo: Lorito is meant to be a minimal set of opcodes, with ones more complex build from the core ones. Why is there say and write then? Isn't say supposed to be this “complex” one here, or it's just so commonly used it's core?
17:47 Coke whiteknight: not according to http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/report/16 and http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/ticket/760, e.g.
17:48 whiteknight tadzik: that's a good question. I don't think we should have write or say at that level. Those are methods on PMCs
17:48 atrodo tadzik> Those are in there more as a bootstrapping opcodes
17:48 atrodo not meant to stay long-term
17:48 whiteknight Coke: I'm looking at report 16 now and my name is next to all those tickets. Refresh your cache
17:49 Coke whiteknight: fix the cache at trac.parrot.org
17:49 whiteknight regardless, you're going to have to trust that I own them
17:50 Coke yup, the server cache is only aggressive for non-logged in users. Have fun. ;)
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17:51 cotto_work tadzik: yes.  They're temporary ops to make debugging easier.  They aren't expected to be in the final version.
17:51 whiteknight dukeleto: If you can fix partcl's configure script to work with git, I can get cracking on some tickets
17:53 whiteknight Coke; I'm not going to fix the cache on the trac site. That's well beyond my purview
17:56 moritz whiteknight: I'm currently working on the rakudo configure system, branch parrotgit
17:56 moritz I think much of that can be stolen for tcl
17:56 whiteknight moritz: yeah, dukeleto has already expressed an interest in doing it
17:56 whiteknight and I've got enough on my TODO list without stealing tasks from him
18:07 dukeleto whiteknight: hokey dokey
18:07 dukeleto moritz: yes, it can. i will steal your code for partcl :)
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18:12 Coke whiteknight: (cache) I don't expect you to fix it, just be aware of it.
18:18 dukeleto Coke: i am running the partcl test suite now
18:20 Coke dukeleto: is the work on parrot needed for this in trunk or in a branch?
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18:22 dukeleto Coke: it passed. I wasn't expecting that
18:22 Coke (i'm not seeing anything in parrot_config --dump on master, which is why I ask)
18:23 Coke dukeleto: for old partcl? yah, because I skipped the last set of failing tests.
18:23 dukeleto Coke: git_describe branch
18:23 Coke ... weeks ago. you're right, parrot should have broken something new by now. ;)
18:23 whiteknight dukeleto: what's the ETA of that branch?
18:23 dukeleto whiteknight: when it gets done
18:24 dukeleto whiteknight: it is in a state that Rakudo can use it, but it needs a lot more tests
18:24 dukeleto whiteknight: perhaps, if the parrot community thinks it is important enough, i can merge the branch and add more tests in a branch. Doesn't matter to me.
18:24 * dukeleto goes to the airport
18:25 cotto_work now you can commit on the plane
18:25 cotto_work should you so desire
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18:29 whiteknight dukeleto: considering the timing of everything, I do think it would be prudent to merge the branch as-is and work out the kinks later
18:30 whiteknight if it doesn't break anything, and adds necessary functionality, mark it experimental and merge it
18:31 moritz +1 to merging now
18:32 cotto_work If it's going in before the release, it shouldn't happen after today.
18:32 cotto_work btw, has anyone walked through the release process?
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18:35 whiteknight I have not walked through the process yet. I will try to do that soon
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18:41 cotto_work cotto ought to take a shot at it too.  For a dry run, he can skip some of the more time-consuming parts.
18:41 whiteknight we need to make sure that tcurtis has access to the ftp server with his ssh key
18:42 whiteknight I'm not even sure if I still have ftp access to it
18:42 * whiteknight being stupid, keeps deleting his ssh key
18:45 whiteknight ah, RESPONSIBLE_PARTIES needs major updating
18:46 sorear seen dukeleto
18:46 aloha dukeleto was last seen in #parrot 22 mins 5 seconds ago saying "whiteknight: perhaps, if the parrot community thinks it is important enough, i can merge the branch and add more tests in a branch. Doesn't matter to me.".
18:47 sorear dukeleto: do you know who set up push notifications for Parrot?
18:47 cotto_work I can give him access to the ftp server.
18:53 whiteknight sorear: why? are the push notifications wrong?
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18:54 sorear whiteknight: yes
18:54 sorear whiteknight: specifically, he or she forgot the "de-configure pull notifications" step
18:54 sorear which is why every commit to master is being reported twice
18:55 sorear I could fix this, but I'd rather be certain that he or she won't do it again, first
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19:42 whiteknight blah. I have to install yet another version of VisualStudio on this damned machine
19:42 whiteknight brings me up to 3
19:43 cotto_work whiteknight: where's the new $dayjob?
19:43 dukeleto sorear: ping
19:44 dukeleto sorear: i set up the push notifications
19:44 whiteknight cotto_work: center city philadelphia. A web-dev place called weblinc
19:44 dukeleto sorear: de-configure pull notifications?
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19:58 moritz dukeleto: you can do that too
20:00 sorear dukeleto: there is an entry for parrot master in perl6/mu/misc/dalek-conf.json;
20:00 sorear it should have been removed when push for parrot was set up
20:00 sorear I'll do that now
20:02 sorear dukeleto: What repos did you set up push on?
20:03 dukeleto sorear: i only set it up for parrot.git
20:03 dukeleto sorear++
20:03 dukeleto sorear: i didn't realize there was a dalek-conf file to fiddle with.
20:11 whiteknight dukeleto: a lesson I've learned over the years: there is ALWAYS a conf file to fiddle with
20:13 whiteknight the first half of the fun is finding the damn file. The second half is scraping through extremely concise and poorly-written online documentation to figure out how to do even basic things with it
20:14 sorear whiteknight: there has only been a conf file for a month or two
20:14 sorear for most of dalek's history, it was configured by writing Perl modules
20:16 atrodo whiteknight> Just to find out the documentation on the website is old because the author was halfway through refactoring it
20:17 atrodo so option "DTRT_now" is no longer supported because no one used and it's no longer important, but it's the single option that makes it work perfectly for you
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20:59 moritz aloha: msg dukeleto the parrotgit rakudo branch now works, in the sense that success has been reported from two different machines so far. Eagerly avaiting the merge of the git_describe branch in parrot :-)
20:59 aloha moritz: OK. I'll deliver the message.
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