Camelia, the Perl 6 bug

IRC log for #parrot, 2010-11-16

Parrot | source cross referenced

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:00 mikehh I have always built parrot first and used my installed parrot NOT --gen-parrot
00:02 seanstickle joined #parrot
00:03 dukeleto mikehh: moritz would know, could be a bug
00:04 whiteknight 6 smoke reports tonight
00:04 whiteknight I would have had 8, if I could get stupid icc installed on this box
00:07 donaldh left #parrot
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00:14 theory left #parrot
00:29 whiteknight HA! I got icc working
00:29 whiteknight eat that, intel
00:29 * dukeleto kicks icc while it is on the ground
00:29 * dukeleto doesn't trust anything that starts with an "i" and ends in "cc"
00:31 * whiteknight can't think of any other words that fit that criteria
00:31 dukeleto whiteknight: IMCC
00:31 * dukeleto gives whiteknight a demerit
00:31 whiteknight oh damnit, that's the obvious one, isn't it?
00:34 whiteknight I like ICC when I use it
00:34 whiteknight my compiler of choice is clang though
00:34 dukeleto whiteknight: i have nothing against ICC except that it is not open source. Clang seems to rock.
00:34 mikehh winxed r684 - builds on parrot ae3500c, ALL tests - make test/test1/test2 PASS, examples seem ok (those I ran)
00:35 whiteknight dukeleto: not being open source is a valid concern, but good software is good software
00:36 mikehh whiteknight: thought it was open source
00:36 whiteknight no. Intel gives free licenses to open source developers for personal use, but it's not open souce
00:38 mikehh whiteknight: sorry not thinking straight at the moment, somehow confused ICC with ICU
00:38 whiteknight oh yes, icu is awesome
00:41 mikehh had a really bad weekend sorting out some problems not of my creation that I was called on to fix, not enough sleep etc (but the $ was good I suppose ;-} )
00:42 whiteknight good $ makes up for a lot of shortcomings in the employee-employer relationship
00:45 whiteknight okay. gcc, g++, clang, and icc with and without --optimize all PASS on Ubuntu 10.10/x64
00:45 mikehh whiteknight++
00:47 mikehh I ran up to fulltest with g++-4.5 (with/without --optimize)
00:48 whiteknight my gcc/g++ are 4.4, not 4.5
00:48 whiteknight I don't run fulltest too often
00:49 mikehh it is the default on 10.10 - but I have installed 4.5 as well and use that
00:49 mikehh and use perl 5.12.2 rather than 5.10.1
00:50 mikehh which I build with gcc-4.5
00:51 whiteknight I rarely get too much software that I need to build myself
01:03 atrodo Can I get a quick rundown on how to run an optimized smoke?
01:03 whiteknight perl Configure.pl --optimize
01:03 whiteknight perl Configure.pl --optimize && make && make smoke
01:04 atrodo thanks!
01:14 atrodo passed on optimized as well http://smolder.parrot.org/app​/projects/report_details/1105
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02:03 cotto ~~
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02:36 rurban_ is now known as rurban
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03:02 bacek_at_work ~~
03:03 cotto hi bacek_at_work
03:04 bacek_at_work cotto, hello
03:04 GeJ servus cotto.
03:04 GeJ G'Day bacek.
03:05 bacek_at_work G'Day GeJ. Howizgoin'?
03:06 GeJ Sick, tired and mad. Gimme some C4, and I'll make the news tonight. And you? How's your day?
03:08 dalek parrot/gsoc_nci: d3f8f9b | jkeenan++ | / (3 files):
03:08 dalek parrot/gsoc_nci: [configure] Allow for possibility that pkg-config might not be present.  Extract code for determinining that possibility into internal method and test it.  Correct error in number of tests in plan in init::defaults.
03:08 dalek parrot/gsoc_nci: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/​d3f8f9b8b5ba5abfbfc0885b71eaf3846bb76baa
03:10 jsut_ left #parrot
03:10 bacek_at_work gsoc_nci report http://smolder.parrot.org/app​/projects/report_details/1107 (Debian Linux/i386 + libffi + optimize)
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03:27 dukeleto 'ello
03:28 adu joined #parrot
03:30 cotto 'i
03:31 dukeleto our NEWS for 2.10.0 looks pretty bad
03:31 dukeleto didn't we, like, do stuff in the last month?
03:31 bacek_at_work we did almost nothing...
03:34 dngor_ is now known as dngor
03:36 dukeleto bacek_at_work: maybe you did almost nothing...
03:36 dukeleto bacek_at_work: a lot of work happened on branches, but not many got merged to master
03:36 bacek_at_work dukeleto, I know. But is hard to sell :)
03:38 dukeleto bacek_at_work: what about mentioning all our new git docs in NEWS? If not, no one will find them
03:38 dukeleto bacek_at_work: i am willing to improve NEWS, but people need to tell me what they want in there, or I will just put what I think people need to hear
03:39 cotto dukeleto, have you trolled #ps?
03:39 bacek_at_work I think git-related stuff deserve to be more covered in NEWS.
03:42 dalek parrot: b389465 | dukeleto++ | NEWS:
03:42 dalek parrot: Add some meat to our NEWS burrito
03:42 dalek parrot: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/​b389465fd2c3a4941046473996d57d3a3ec9578a
03:42 dukeleto cotto: possibly. I troll myself sometimes and don't know it.
03:43 cotto I'm usually intentional when autotrolling.
03:47 dukeleto I am putting GCI stuff in NEWS. It is important.
03:51 dalek parrot: a635260 | dukeleto++ | NEWS:
03:51 dalek parrot: Add a bit of garnish to the NEWS burrito
03:51 dalek parrot: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/​a6352601936ca3436fe6c61782ab3acf9b19bf30
03:56 dukeleto pkg-config is deprecated now, correct?
03:56 dukeleto does that need to be added to DEPRECATED.POD or something?
03:57 cotto good question for whiteknight
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04:07 cotto dukeleto, how soon can you get a parrot-commits script set up?
04:14 dukeleto cotto: meh. i am not very motivated to do it. who actually wants it?
04:15 dalek parrot: 3128984 | dukeleto++ | NEWS:
04:15 dalek parrot: Add a few spices to the NEWS burrito
04:15 dalek parrot: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/​3128984e1527a6cb796b96460eb5fc0441642e74
04:16 * cotto does
04:16 cotto but knowing that you're not motivated is helpful
04:17 dukeleto i see many other things as being a better use of my time
04:17 dukeleto i just time "git pull --rebase && git log -p" and i have a colored diff history of Parrot. Why do I want to use email?
04:17 dukeleto I hate email.
04:17 dukeleto s/i just time/i just type/
04:19 dukeleto also, git log --pretty=format:'%C(yellow)%h%Creset %s %Cred%an%Creset %Cblue%d%Creset %Cgreen%cr%Creset %cd' --graph --all
04:19 dukeleto which i alias to "git plog"
04:20 cotto dukeleto, is the video at http://wiki.pentaho.com/display​/BEEKEEPER/Beekeeper+Recording broken for you?
04:20 dukeleto Now our NEWS file looks respectable.
04:20 dukeleto cotto: it is flash
04:21 cotto you don't do flash?
04:21 GeJ Hum, did anyone see the note on build failure under Windows?
04:21 dukeleto cotto: i selectively enable it
04:22 cotto I hate it much less now that it's out-of-process for firefox and chromium.
04:22 dukeleto It is still the same black box of security and proprietary-ish software.
04:23 GeJ How close are we to the release?
04:23 dukeleto GeJ: soon
04:23 cotto GeJ, it ought to happen within the next 24 hours or so
04:24 GeJ Could be worth having a look at the github note attached to commit 2d9999d
04:24 dukeleto GeJ: link?
04:25 GeJ https://github.com/parrot/parrot/c​ommit/2d9999d291ea2aed23833f50e8cd​42ebdd0b22cd#commitcomment-194690
04:26 dukeleto particle: ping! Windows code review appreciated. ^^^
04:28 cotto one of the comments has a link to the swf file
04:29 GeJ aloha: clock?
04:29 aloha GeJ: GeJ: LAX: Mon, 20:29 PST / CHI: Mon, 22:29 CST / NYC: Mon, 23:29 EST / UTC: Tue, 04:29 UTC / LON: Tue, 04:29 GMT / BER: Tue, 05:29 CET / TOK: Tue, 13:29 JST / SYD: Tue, 15:29 EST
04:29 GeJ thanks girl.
04:35 dukeleto I think we should institute a policy of people adding to NEWS whenever they think something is worthy to note to end users.
04:35 dukeleto we can always trim it at release time if it is too much detail
04:36 cotto That'd be a good habit to get into.
04:36 dukeleto If i didn't just do some code spelunking to see what we did in the last month, our NEWS release was going to be pitiful.
04:36 dukeleto Heroic efforts are not to be relied on.
04:37 cotto If you didn't do it, I'm sure tcurtis or someone else would have.
04:37 dukeleto cotto: where should this go in our project docs?
04:37 cotto (not to minimize your efforts, which are appreciated)
04:37 cotto I think it needs to be more of a cultural thing.
04:37 dukeleto cotto: sure, but that is not the point. The point is that everyone should share the fun of adding to NEWS. It is how we communicate what we do to end users. It is important.
04:38 dukeleto cotto: sure, i understand. But it can go as a sidenote in the git workflow "Add something to NEWS about your commit if you feel it is appropriate"
04:39 dukeleto i don't want to carve rules in stone, but i do want tribal knowledge to be documented
04:39 cotto wfm, without the "if you feel it is appropriate".  Nobody's going to add something they don't feel belongs.
04:40 dukeleto cotto: indeed.
04:40 dukeleto cotto: i will work it more positively
04:40 dukeleto s/work/word/
04:43 dalek parrot: d0ff82f | dukeleto++ | NEWS:
04:43 dalek parrot: Add a link for PL/Parrot in NEWS
04:43 dalek parrot: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/​d0ff82ff4ab14cb894a5587638dadc8034a75356
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05:37 dalek parrot: 40b9729 | dukeleto++ | docs/project/git_terminology.pod:
05:37 dalek parrot: [docs] Be more correct with regard to root commits in Git
05:37 dalek parrot: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/​40b9729ec9c55016d24160ee3cf3b9473829f4e2
05:45 tcurtis particle: ping
05:50 dukeleto tcurtis: how goes it?
05:51 dukeleto tcurtis: do you feel comfortable with the impending release? do you need help with anything?
05:53 tcurtis dukeleto: I feel comfortable. The only issue is that I don't think I have privileges on parrot.org to change the url for /release/current and such or to update the docs.
05:53 tcurtis s/the docs/docs.parrot.org/
05:56 dalek parrot: 2b8736d | dukeleto++ | docs/project/git_terminology.pod:
05:56 dalek parrot: [docs] Clarify the location of the staging area
05:56 dalek parrot: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/​2b8736db3826d1f10daaa23f94b24a768a06e06b
05:56 dalek parrot: 04e8e4d | dukeleto++ | docs/project/git_terminology.pod:
05:56 dalek parrot: [docs] Document 'useless merge commits' and explain rebasing more
05:56 dalek parrot: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/​04e8e4d5ada091150e8020b6a6e26bbc9d857f53
05:56 dukeleto tcurtis: Coke and perhaps cotto can do that, methinks
05:58 cotto yup
06:04 tcurtis Alright. Good night, then, #parrot.
06:04 cotto 'night tcurtis
06:11 tcurtis left #parrot
06:23 bacek_at_work Andy++ # ack ftw!
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06:27 cotto I love that tool.
06:33 bacek_at_work Do we have official way of C-code level unittesting?
06:35 cotto bacek_at_work, are you assuming that we have units?
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06:35 bacek_at_work cotto, sigh...
06:36 cotto yeah
06:36 cotto suggestions welcome
06:37 cotto Why do you ask?
06:37 bacek_at_work I do want test GC on code level. Not parrot level.
06:39 cotto have you used any C unit testing frameworks?
06:40 jsut left #parrot
06:41 bacek_at_work only C++
06:41 bacek_at_work and C#
06:42 particle see http://testanything.org/wiki​/index.php/TAP_Producers#C_.2F_C.2B.2B
06:42 cotto There seem to exist some in C.
06:44 bacek_at_work CUnit looks all right. Probably will play with it tonight.
06:45 cotto What's good to look for in a unit testing framework?
06:46 bacek_at_work for me - at least customizable output. I do want TAP :)
06:46 bacek_at_work and as less boilerplate code as possible.
06:47 cotto TAP is almost implicit
06:53 GeJ bacek_at_work: http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?TestingFramework has a looooong list of frameworks, just in case.
06:53 bacek_at_work GeJ, hey! I don't want huge list! I just need one which works! :)
06:54 fperrad joined #parrot
06:55 cotto freedom from choice is nice sometimes
06:55 AzureStone left #parrot
06:55 cotto or at least from too many of them
06:56 bacek_at_work ok. Either cUnit or Check.
06:58 bacek_at_work and time to go home! Hooray
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07:19 dalek nqp-rx: c4c31a1 | moritz++ | / (2 files):
07:19 dalek nqp-rx: [configure] fix two thinkos
07:19 dalek nqp-rx: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp-rx/commit/c​4c31a13b51ee6df80b7214afb21f5e2b4236940
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07:22 bacek aloha,
07:22 bacek ... humans
07:22 cotto error: humans not found
07:23 dukeleto left #parrot
07:23 cotto really.  I even checked twice.
07:26 cotto http://www.kindahl.net/mytap/doc/
07:27 cotto There seem to be several C TAP frameworks.
07:29 dukeleto joined #parrot
07:30 cotto Hmmm.  dukeleto, would the parrot-commits mailer be a good gci task?
07:33 dukeleto cotto: sure. Add it as a task.
07:33 cotto are you trying to keep the perl and parrot tasks separate?
07:33 dukeleto cotto: i would call it "easy"
07:33 dukeleto cotto: meh. not really.
07:34 bacek left #parrot
07:34 dukeleto cotto: all those tasks need to be exported to googles web app. thankfully there is a bulk csv importer
07:34 dukeleto cotto: i am trying to order them from easy to medium to difficult
07:35 cotto wfm
07:36 cotto msg cotto_work add parrot-commits to the gci list
07:36 aloha OK. I'll deliver the message.
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07:42 bacek docs/tests.pod is really outdated.
07:42 cotto bacek, I don't think either cunit or check support pod
07:42 cotto several others do though
07:43 bacek cotto, I'll stick with "c_output_is" for now.
07:43 bacek from Parrot::Test
07:44 cotto that'll work too
07:44 cotto and allow for maximum laziness
08:03 cotto Heh.  Drupal has decided to move from cvs to git.  Suddenly our migration seems trivial.
08:11 theory left #parrot
08:11 * moritz suspects that cvs' branching model is closer to git than svn's is
08:47 dalek parrot: c32f07c | fperrad++ | config/gen/platform/win32/ (2 files):
08:47 dalek parrot: [win32] move WINVER check from misc.h to begin.c
08:47 dalek parrot:
08:47 dalek parrot: like in original patch (see TT#1846)
08:47 dalek parrot: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/​c32f07c09ebc776617d2ce7abf3193ae364e7e67
09:09 dalek parrot/gc_ms2_faster_list: d9d81b5 | bacek++ | / (3 files):
09:09 dalek parrot/gc_ms2_faster_list: Stubs for future faster pointer storage.
09:09 dalek parrot/gc_ms2_faster_list: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/​d9d81b511e2d45c8edc7771333aa520ace965b0f
09:09 dalek parrot/gc_ms2_faster_list: a03a1f0 | bacek++ | / (2 files):
09:09 dalek parrot/gc_ms2_faster_list: Made Parrot_pa_* exported
09:09 dalek parrot/gc_ms2_faster_list: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/​a03a1f08d5abbc00528864c6dc239828ca2adf93
09:09 dalek parrot/gc_ms2_faster_list: 77b71f1 | bacek++ | t/src/pointer_array.t:
09:09 dalek parrot/gc_ms2_faster_list: Start adding tests for Pointer_Array.
09:09 dalek parrot/gc_ms2_faster_list: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/​77b71f1339d3537c6e752918456814de1b44b718
09:09 dalek parrot/gc_ms2_faster_list: 5f23c8e | bacek++ | t/src/pointer_array.t:
09:09 dalek parrot/gc_ms2_faster_list: Add more tests for allocating chunks.
09:09 dalek parrot/gc_ms2_faster_list: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/​5f23c8ec6d3578c16526e8b5a14cb0a64bedb488
09:09 dalek parrot/gc_ms2_faster_list: 943e588 | bacek++ | t/src/pointer_array.t:
09:09 dalek parrot/gc_ms2_faster_list: Add (failing) test for iterating PA.
09:09 dalek parrot/gc_ms2_faster_list: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/​943e588a91dded6a25d6aeea277322f2154d7099
09:09 dalek parrot/gc_ms2_faster_list: f273fd9 | bacek++ | / (2 files):
09:09 dalek parrot/gc_ms2_faster_list: Add more tests and fix pa_remove to properly mark free cells
09:09 dalek parrot/gc_ms2_faster_list: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/​f273fd9c3a1f37ea6478f2b346da834e72e90d47
09:09 dalek parrot/gc_ms2_faster_list: 6fdab4a | bacek++ | t/src/pointer_array.t:
09:09 dalek parrot/gc_ms2_faster_list: Add more tests.
09:09 dalek parrot/gc_ms2_faster_list: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/​6fdab4a60b759e7ed888d5acce0769fe7d1fb65e
09:09 dalek parrot/gc_ms2_faster_list: 0b70f3f | bacek++ | / (2 files):
09:09 dalek parrot/gc_ms2_faster_list: Fix pa_remove to properly maintain 'free list'
09:09 dalek parrot/gc_ms2_faster_list: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/​0b70f3f192ad5778fc42cb127730c93a93c0db4c
09:09 dalek parrot/gc_ms2_faster_list: 2479225 | bacek++ | src/pointer_array.c:
09:09 dalek parrot/gc_ms2_faster_list: Implement Parrot_pa_destroy.
09:10 dalek parrot/gc_ms2_faster_list: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/​2479225c9db42236929a2772df215ccb4215cf98
09:10 dalek parrot/gc_ms2_faster_list: db2a267 | bacek++ | src/gc/gc_ms2.c:
09:10 dalek parrot/gc_ms2_faster_list: Initial switch to Pointer_Array instead of Linked_List in GC MS2
09:10 dalek parrot/gc_ms2_faster_list: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/​db2a2679a2b9bc3759f76a3a719bcd14ccc30492
09:10 bacek yak
09:10 moritz shaved!
09:12 bacek Not yet. But I'm getting close to it!
09:15 moritz only a shaved yak is good yak
09:17 dalek parrot/gc_ms2_faster_list: b858241 | bacek++ | src/gc/gc_ms2.c:
09:17 dalek parrot/gc_ms2_faster_list: Resurrect string pool compacting
09:17 dalek parrot/gc_ms2_faster_list: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/​b85824190261b076e5fbb78aa6e4022c554f7dd3
09:17 bacek Shit... I'm out of beer. And I need at least few more to finish this yak.
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09:32 bacek Yay! branch vs master - 2m06s vs 2m29s!
09:32 moritz for doing what?
09:32 bacek make test
09:32 moritz building rakudo?
09:32 bacek didn't test it yet
09:32 bacek aloha, 2*60 + 6
09:32 aloha bacek: 126
09:33 bacek aloha, 2*60 + 29
09:33 aloha bacek: 149
09:33 bacek aloha, (149-126)/149
09:33 aloha bacek: 0.154362416107383
09:33 bacek aloha, (149-126)/149*100
09:33 aloha bacek: 15.4362416107383
09:33 moritz not bad
09:33 bacek 15%. Not too bad for 2 days of work :)
09:34 bacek Time to get some beer and finish this yak.
09:35 moritz bacek: you could use http://lists.parrot.org/pipermail/pa​rrot-dev/2010-September/004685.html as a test case too
09:36 bacek moritz, we used to have trac ticket for it. It was fixed in GC MS2 already
09:36 dalek parrot: af75053 | fperrad++ | t/ (2 files):
09:36 dalek parrot: [t] fix the nigthmare CRLF on Windows
09:36 dalek parrot:
09:36 dalek parrot: (I work with git config core.autocrlf=true)
09:36 dalek parrot: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/​af7505336f70a48cd1787a35138845ac7898e3c0
09:37 * moritz didn't know that
09:39 bacek hmm... May be I was wrong about it.
09:40 bacek moritz, http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/ticket/1789 this one?
09:41 moritz nope; that's about string concatenation
09:42 bacek because original .readall did a lot of concatenations inside.
09:44 moritz pmichaud's email was about this: the presence of a large object tree slowed down an otherwise fast-ish operation significantly
09:45 moritz because the GC sweeps always considered the full tree, even if it wasn't ever changed after it was loaded
09:46 bacek ah... It will be (finally) fixed in generational_gc branch :)
09:47 moritz which is why I suggested it as a test case :-)
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09:57 sorear do we have the technology to performance test case stuff?
09:57 sorear opbots trust moritz
09:57 slavorg But I already trust moritz
09:57 slavorgn But I already trust moritz
09:57 sorear opbots names
09:57 moritz sorear: not automatically
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10:17 bacek moritz, how long it's usually takes to build rakudo?
10:18 moritz bacek: I haven't timed it in ages... will do now
10:18 moritz but it varies greatly across different machines
10:18 sorear it varies greatly from month to month
10:18 sorear 7 minutes in June, 5 hours in September
10:19 sorear on one machine
10:20 moritz sorear: where the 5 hours on 2.9.0 or 2.9.1?
10:20 adu left #parrot
10:21 sorear the better one
10:21 moritz ugh.
10:25 bacek 5 hours????
10:26 * moritz guesses a lot of swapping is involved
10:27 sorear yes
10:28 sorear user time for a Rakudo build is always in the 5-20 minute range
10:28 moritz 7min12 on my box now
10:30 moritz trying now on the branch
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10:36 moritz 5m37.906s on the branch
10:36 rurban_ is now known as rurban
10:36 moritz I haven't measured memory usage
10:38 sorear if it's much under 100 million words I'll try it
10:39 moritz is there a simple tool that can measure the peak memory consumpmtion of a process? (linux)
10:39 bacek 11m16s vs 7m12s on my box.
10:39 sorear moritz: /usr/bin/time if you're running kernel 2.6.32 or newer
10:40 sorear otherwise you'll need to poll top(1) style
10:41 * moritz tries it
10:54 moritz sorear: /usr/bin/time reports the maximum resident set size, but not the max. virtual mem
10:55 sorear Max resident is what I really care about, given COW
10:55 sorear well, "max resident with minimal/no swapping"
11:03 dalek TT #1789 closed by bacek++: String concatenation is really slow
11:03 dalek TT #1789: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/ticket/1789
11:03 GeJ bacek: you shrink Rakudo build time by one third?
11:04 bacek GeJ, something like this :)
11:04 * moritz waits with the celebration until he has seen the memory usage figures
11:05 GeJ bacek: impressive feat!
11:05 GeJ Ship It!
11:05 bacek not before after release
11:11 moritz the branch needs more memory to build rakudo
11:12 moritz Maximum resident set size (kbytes): 4288848 (branch) vs. 3009360 (master)
11:17 sorear -more-?
11:25 sorear bacek: that ticket has nothing to do with darwin-i386
11:25 bacek sorear, we did fix it for other platforms.
11:26 sorear the problem is that kid51 has 256 MB of memory and can't hack on parrot until the GC is improved
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12:52 dalek TT #1829 closed by jkeenan++: Recent changes impeded building and testing on smaller boxes
12:52 dalek TT #1829: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/ticket/1829
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12:58 PhatEddy GeJ: you asked me to stop by so I tested the patches on my Activestate / MingW system and it built OK ...
13:00 GeJ PhatEddy: glad to hear it.
13:00 GeJ fperrad++
13:01 GeJ that's one that won't be a showstopper for the release.
13:01 bluescreen joined #parrot
13:01 GeJ any report is good to hear by now.
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13:59 GeJ Good morning whiteknight.
14:04 whiteknight hello GeJ, how are you today?
14:14 mikehh_ is now known as mikehh
14:32 GeJ whiteknight: Well, I'm more and more convinced that generating XML schemas should only be allowed to people holding a certification delivered by the W3C.
14:33 GeJ cheaters should be lapidated.
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14:43 GeJ whiteknight: and you?
14:58 whiteknight GeJ: I agree wholeheartedly.
14:59 whiteknight In my last job, we had a datafeed for a customer that was written in really ugly XML. I changed some whitespace formatting in the code, and later that day I got emergency emails that the feed was broken
15:00 whiteknight I come to find out that the recipient was using a COBOL parser and that all fields were fixed-width and that they were parsing the whole document by taking fixed indexes
15:01 GeJ Shiny.
15:03 GeJ On my side of the pond, I'm working on massaging XML exports from an application used by several real estate agencies to later import said exports in the database for a website of ours.
15:04 GeJ for each item (a house, an appartment, commercial building, whatever...) the client can attach pictures, either as files attached to the XML export or inlined in the XML itself.
15:06 GeJ the XSD states something like : In the <FILE> node you can have 0 or 1 <ATTACHED_FILE> child node, or 0 or 1 <INLINE_FILE> child node."
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15:07 GeJ I asked a customer to send me an export, and tadaaaa! The <FILE> are here but no ATTACHED|INLINE_FILE
15:08 whiteknight great
15:08 GeJ which is correct according to the schema, but is completely useless.
15:08 zby left #parrot
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15:11 GeJ Theoretically, I could have an real estate offer that is both an appartment to rent as well as an office building to sell.
15:11 lucian joined #parrot
15:11 GeJ THEY INVENTED QUANTUM REAL ESTATE!
15:12 GeJ Quick someone call the Nobel committee.
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15:40 whiteknight anybody seen tcurtis? We have an ETA on the release yet?
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16:20 dukeleto 'ello
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16:26 dukeleto moritz: if you want to track memory use of something, you might want to try: http://search.cpan.org/dist/Devel-Memalyzer/
16:29 moritz dukeleto: does that work for non-perl stuff?
16:30 dukeleto moritz: you can spawn any process and track memory use, methinks. It uses /proc, so it only works on linux
16:33 moritz dukeleto: ok, thanks
16:34 dukeleto moritz: it seems to have plugins now, maybe it does more than the last time I checked.
16:47 whiteknight we do have those instrumentation PMC types that need to get fixed up and merged into trunk eventually
16:48 whiteknight I would like those to be included in the core repo by 2.11
16:50 dukeleto whiteknight: are you volunteering?
16:51 whiteknight yes
16:51 dukeleto whiteknight: awesome! Maybe you can make some GCI tasks relating to them, such as writing more docs or tests for them
16:51 whiteknight I don't even think they build right now
16:54 whiteknight Oooh, I just came up with a great idea for GSoC next summer: basic CUDA interface for Parrot
16:57 NotFound whiteknight: another one: dbus (maybe too big)
17:09 dukeleto Andy++ # new version of ack
17:09 Andy thanks
17:09 Andy it's been waiting forever
17:09 dukeleto Andy: ack has improved my life greatly. Thanks for making it happen.
17:09 Andy I just had some time to kill last night while watching the Daily Show and figured what the hell.
17:10 Andy You're very welcome.
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17:29 dalek parrot: 2a19514 | tcurtis++ | NEWS:
17:29 dalek parrot: [NEWS] fix typo and mention the charset op removal.
17:29 dalek parrot: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/​2a19514ff55ac3067b554c486e1200c6b452bbc2
17:29 tcurtis joined #parrot
17:47 dukeleto tcurtis: how goes it?
17:47 dukeleto tcurtis: do you have a time set for when you will tag 'master' as the release? That way we know when we can start breaking things again.
17:50 tcurtis dukeleto: I expect to have the release tagged within the next hour.
18:11 dukeleto tcurtis++ # our first release manager in the brave new world of Git
18:12 dukeleto http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.comp.v​ersion-control.git/57643/focus=57918 is classic Linus
18:13 dukeleto So I'm sorry, but for something like git, where efficiency was a primary
18:13 dukeleto objective, the "advantages" of C++ is just a huge mistake. The fact that
18:13 dukeleto we also piss off people who cannot see that is just a big additional
18:13 dukeleto advantage.
18:15 tcurtis $ grep -c "Result: FAIL" make_fulltest.log
18:15 tcurtis 0
18:16 dukeleto tcurtis: looks promising
18:18 NotFound dukeleto: Date: 2007-09-06 Hot news? ;)
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18:19 dukeleto tcurtis: we may want to mention that currently our mk_language_shell, create_language scripts are still being ported to git in NEWS. A preemptive warning to people
18:22 dalek parrot: c4477dd | tcurtis++ | / (11 files):
18:22 dalek parrot: Release 2.10.0!
18:22 dalek parrot: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/​c4477dd2efea3962eef3a22f671a1904e0ee47f5
18:22 dalek parrot: 7dbc0aa | tcurtis++ | NEWS:
18:22 dalek parrot: Add a note to NEWS about mk_language_shell/create_language.
18:22 dalek parrot: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/​7dbc0aaf9458f3fe160f973f0be30d579fbdaca4
18:23 * tcurtis probably should have waited until he tested the tarballs to push, just in case.
18:24 atrodo dukeleto> thanks for the linus link
18:25 dukeleto tcurtis: you can do an extra "make fulltest" from the tarball before you push it out
18:25 dukeleto tcurtis: i would recommend it as a sanity check. If that is not in the release manager docs, it should be
18:29 tcurtis dukeleto: It is. I just should have waited to push the release-related commits(although I haven't actually pushed the tag yet) until I'd done so. I expect things to work properly (they did yesterday).
18:30 whiteknight dukeleto: Hah! That email from Linus is very funny.  I'm surprised he's so down on C++ though. It seems from his email like he is pretty down on OO in general
18:31 PerlJam left #parrot
18:31 atrodo it's not hard to be pro-oo and anti-c++
18:31 whiteknight If you're a big C programmer writing a huge system in C, and all your coding buddies are good at C, it makes good sense to write your next project in C
18:31 whiteknight s/C/any particular programming language/g;
18:32 tcurtis For some values of "your next project".
18:32 whiteknight if it's what you know and what you can do well, it's probably the best choice for you
18:32 whiteknight if your only tool is a hammer, every problem looks like a nail
18:32 whiteknight and if C++ is your hammer, every problem looks like your thumb
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18:34 dukeleto whiteknight: Linus seems to dislike OO in general, but he wrote an OS and a bunch of device drivers before git, so that makes a lot of sense.
18:35 atrodo when C is your tool, nothing looks oo
18:36 tcurtis I think that there are some (language, problem) pairs where even if you know that language and only that language and you know it very well, you're probably better off learning another language to tackle the problem. E.g., at the moment, (Perl 6, operating system kernel)
18:36 rurban left #parrot
18:36 rurban_ is now known as rurban
18:38 NotFound I think the problem is some random fool believing he knows what tool is better for a Linus project better than Linus do.
18:40 dukeleto NotFound: exactly. Getting into language wars with people who have designed operating systems is a fools errand.
18:41 atrodo maybe someone should start a language war about why parrot uses c...
18:41 seanstickle left #parrot
18:41 NotFound Talking about that, a guy wrote me that Winxed is a very nice language but will be better if I convert it to an implementation of some JVM or CLI existent language.
18:42 NotFound So, he like it but dislikes the language and the target... What he likes, I wonder?
18:42 whiteknight what makes me laugh here is when people talk about performance comparisons between C and C++. People talk as if code written in C is always as fast or faster than code written in C++
18:42 dukeleto atrodo: i am actually in the process of porting Parrot to /bin/sh
18:43 atrodo dukeleto++
18:43 hudnix left #parrot
18:43 atrodo Have you thought about ksh, or csh?
18:43 NotFound whiteknight: Stroustrup has an article about that.
18:43 tcurtis release tagged and pushed but not yet uploaded.
18:44 NotFound He basically says that all comparations are shit.
18:44 dukeleto tcurtis: can you tell use the sha1 of the tag?
18:44 whiteknight exactly. The compiler drops it all down to the same machine code. What matters is the skill of the programmer in optimizing
18:44 whiteknight A good C++ coder should be able to optimize code just as well as a good C coder
18:45 cotto_work ~~
18:46 NotFound You can look at the highly optimized garbage collector in winxed stage 0 X-)
18:46 dukeleto $ git rev-parse RELEASE_2_10_0
18:46 dukeleto 7dbc0aaf9458f3fe160f973f0be30d579fbdaca4
18:46 hudnix joined #parrot
18:46 dukeleto I guess we can start breaking master and merging stuff again. tcurtis: do you give us the thumbs up?
18:46 atrodo NotFound> is that the same gc that's in my lorito prototype?  EOUTOFMEMORY?
18:46 NotFound It does nothing. No one can beat that.
18:46 tcurtis dukeleto: Indeed.
18:47 tcurtis Everyone, feel free to start breaking things in master again.
18:47 cotto_work tcurtis++
18:47 whiteknight I see people talking about "hand-optimized assembly" in this thread too. That's bullshit. I've known very few people who were ever any good at hand-optimizing assembly
18:47 NotFound atrodo: I've been unable to fill enough memory with it, even with my less powered machines.
18:48 * dukeleto gets out his flamethrower attached to a chainsaw merry-go-round
18:48 whiteknight git push origin :master
18:48 NotFound whiteknight: I knew a guy that optimized for speed a wait-for-keystroke loop.
18:48 atrodo NotFound> I've been real good at filling my memory up with a moderately sized Fibonacci calculation
18:48 dukeleto whiteknight: parts of git were hand-optimized assembly for quite a while
18:49 dukeleto whiteknight: but i think they moved away from it and use heavily macro-ized C
18:49 whiteknight dukeleto: saying that it's "hand-optimized" assembly, and claiming that it is actually "optimal" are two different things
18:49 cotto_work dukeleto: that's because it was written by kernel hackers
18:49 tcurtis whiteknight: it appears to be working rather well for LuaJIT.
18:49 dukeleto whiteknight: sha1 calculations need to be *really* fast
18:49 whiteknight plus, even if you do optimize your assembly for one architecture, it won't likely be optimal on any other architecture
18:49 TimToady I just had to optimize a wait-for-keystroke loop because each time through the loop was Too Slow™
18:49 dukeleto TimToady++
18:50 whiteknight dukeleto: I know it needs to be fast. I say that your average programmer cannot produce code as optimal as your current-generation optimizing compilers can
18:50 NotFound TimToady: in this case it was in x86 assembler.
18:50 whiteknight There are always exceptions, but few of them
18:50 dukeleto whiteknight: you are preaching to the choir, dude :)
18:50 cotto_work kernel and video codec hackers are some of the few people I'd believe capable of writing good hand-optimized assembly
18:51 whiteknight I could sit down to a piece of code, and hand-optimize to reduce the number of instructions, but might screw up all the pipeline pairings
18:51 whiteknight or I could get all the pairings perfect, but completely thrash the branch predictor
18:51 whiteknight and if the branch predictor is happy, the L2 cache starts missing like a mammajamma
18:52 dukeleto plobsing: ping? Do you mind if I merge gsoc_nci ?
18:52 * dukeleto is really antsy to see that branch merged
18:52 dukeleto Who is +1 to me merging gsoc_nci ?
18:52 whiteknight trust me, an average human programmer is not going to optimize as much as a modern compiler will
18:52 whiteknight +1
18:52 NotFound atrodo: I haven't measured but I guess that in order to out of memory winxed stage 0 you may need a source program of several MB.
18:52 whiteknight </rant>
18:53 dalek TT #1849 created by coke++: config failure post 2.10.0
18:53 dalek TT #1849: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/ticket/1849
18:53 dalek TT #1850 created by coke++: config failure post 2.10.0
18:53 dalek TT #1850: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/ticket/1850
18:53 Util End of well-known story = Jr Pgmr: "but my version runs much faster than yours!"
18:54 Util Sr Pgmr: "Your version gets the answer wrong; if I do not have to get the right answer, then I can make it as fast as you want!"
18:54 dukeleto uh oh.
18:54 cotto_work dukeleto: I don't like it when you say that.
18:54 atrodo http://www.xkcd.com/221/
18:55 dukeleto Coke's recent 2 tickets, looks like "git" is not installed
18:55 dukeleto many people without git will see that warning when they Configure
18:55 dukeleto i don't think it stops the config, tho
18:55 dukeleto seen Coke?
18:55 aloha Coke was last seen in #parrot 3 days 5 hours ago joining the channel.
18:56 dukeleto step auto::git_describe died during execution: Invalid git describe string (Git::Describe): RELEASE_2_10_0 at config/auto/git_describe.pm line 37.
18:56 dukeleto i see the problem. I can fix that.
18:56 tcurtis I doubt that Coke pulled and rebuilt master without git installed.
18:56 dukeleto tcurtis: how do you feel about me fixing something pointing the tag to a newer commit?
18:56 NotFound Maye he's using git++
18:56 dukeleto no, there is an edgecase
18:57 dukeleto i was wrong, git is installed, but our git describe code has a bug in it
18:57 tcurtis dukeleto: I haven't made the announcement yet, so I guess it's not really officially 2.10.0 yet, so it's fine.
18:57 dukeleto tcurtis: i meant "and pointing the tag to a newer commit"
18:58 dukeleto tcurtis: give me 3 minutes to fix it and add a test
18:58 whiteknight tcurtis++ # patience
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19:00 tcurtis I seem to have forgotten to update the ftp url in release.json.
19:00 dalek parrot: 4820ad5 | dukeleto++ | / (2 files):
19:00 dalek parrot: [config] Fix TT#1849, where a released versions git describe string was not recognized
19:00 Coke joined #parrot
19:00 dalek parrot: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/​4820ad51b936d2a90639e8b4ef512a66b40bdc1f
19:00 dukeleto tcurtis: ok, i think that commit fixes Coke++'s issue
19:01 dukeleto tcurtis: and adds a test for it :)
19:01 dukeleto tcurtis: there may still be bugs in calculating git describe strings, where one is a release version, but that can be looked into later
19:03 Coke dukeleto: we won't know until the next release tag.
19:03 dukeleto Coke: no, we can test things before that.
19:03 dukeleto Coke: i think i just fixed your recent TT, in the most recent commit to master
19:03 Coke but at least I can build now. BTW, that line for the config output is enormous. can probably remove "parrot's" from that output, since ... duh.
19:03 dukeleto Coke: also, did the Config just warn, or actually die?
19:04 dukeleto Coke: i would think it would only warn, but continue on.
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19:04 Coke dukeleto: it works now, but the git-describe string now has a sha1 at the end of it.
19:04 dalek parrot: 80d156e | tcurtis++ | tools/release/release.json:
19:04 dalek parrot: Fix ftp.path.
19:04 dalek parrot: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/​80d156ef8b867e29750211ec97d675ee1529d40b
19:04 dukeleto Coke: wait until tcurtis repoints the tag
19:04 dukeleto tcurtis: do you feel comfortable with how to update where RELEASE_2_10_0 points ?
19:04 Coke dukeleto: it warned, and then said "fix this before running make"
19:04 dukeleto Coke: sure, but the config actually kept going. That is what I wanted to know.
19:05 Coke the config ALWAYS keeps going. it's (*#&!@$ annoying.
19:05 tcurtis dukeleto: "git tag -f RELEASE_2_10_0" ?
19:05 dukeleto tcurtis: yep, if you are on the latest master
19:06 dukeleto tcurtis: you will then need "git push --tags --force" and then others will need "git fetch --tags" to get the new one
19:06 whiteknight why --force?
19:06 dukeleto whiteknight: we are changing where RELEASE_2_10_0 points
19:06 tcurtis --force doesn't appear to be necessary for the push.
19:07 dukeleto tcurtis: interesting. Did you push the tag?
19:07 tcurtis $ git push --tag
19:07 tcurtis Total 0 (delta 0), reused 0 (delta 0)
19:07 tcurtis To git@github.com:parrot/parrot.git
19:07 tcurtis 7dbc0aa..80d156e  RELEASE_2_10_0 -> RELEASE_2_10_0
19:07 dukeleto tcurtis: nice. looks like --force isn't necessary for updating tag locations.
19:08 Coke still need the -tags to get the update tags on the pull/fetch
19:08 Coke now I'm getting:
19:08 dukeleto tcurtis: you may want to send an email to parrot-dev and tell people they need "git fetch --tags", because git fetch will not pull down changed tags by default
19:08 Coke init::manifest -      Check MANIFEST...................​..................done.Use of qw(...) as parentheses is deprecated at config/init/defaults.pm line 290.
19:08 Coke Use of qw(...) as parentheses is deprecated at config/init/defaults.pm line 295.
19:08 dukeleto Coke: that is odd. What is your "perl -v" ?
19:09 Coke 5.13.6. ;)
19:09 Coke sorry, switched perl's in between. trying with 5.12
19:09 dukeleto Coke: lollerskates
19:09 dalek TT #1851 created by coke++: invalid NAME section in config/auto/describe.pm
19:09 dalek TT #1851: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/ticket/1851
19:09 hercynium http://blogs.perl.org/users/rurban/2010​/09/qw-in-list-context-deprecated.html
19:09 dukeleto tcurtis: i think you are good to cut the release now
19:09 hercynium (in case it's helpful)
19:10 Coke dukeleto: yup, my 1849 is fixed.
19:10 dukeleto hercynium: thanks
19:10 hercynium hth
19:12 tcurtis I'm getting a configure test failure in t/configure/063-git_describe_to_cache.t
19:12 nopaste "tcurtis" at 192.168.1.3 pasted "specifically, this failure" (4 lines) at http://nopaste.snit.ch/25675
19:13 dukeleto tcurtis: doh!
19:13 hercynium tcurtis: you have a literal '-' in there
19:13 hercynium and none in the string
19:14 dukeleto tcurtis: will fix, one sec
19:15 Coke dukeleto: fyi, I added "master" as a possible version to trac.
19:15 Coke so we now have trunk & master, which might be confusing.
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19:15 dukeleto Coke: danke, can you remove trunk ?
19:15 dalek parrot: 0eb237a | dukeleto++ | t/configure/063-git_describe_to_cache.t:
19:15 dalek parrot: [config][t] Fix a test relating to git describe strings
19:15 dalek parrot: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/​0eb237a9599f1a21888182ffae7827341a077b7c
19:15 dukeleto tcurtis: please test against on newest master
19:16 dukeleto tcurtis: i should have run more tests before sending in the previous commits. My bad.
19:16 dukeleto tcurtis: s/against/again/
19:16 tcurtis dukeleto: The test probably wouldn't have failed prior to me repointing the tag.
19:16 hercynium heh, adding a ()? works too :)
19:17 Coke dukeleto: removed.
19:17 dukeleto svn--, long live git++ # thanks Coke++
19:28 whiteknight Util++ # branch merge is good to go!
19:33 dukeleto tcurtis: how are things going?
19:33 tcurtis dukeleto: running fulltest on the new tarball (just in case).
19:34 dukeleto tcurtis++ # making sure
19:38 tcurtis The tag is updated and the tarballs and checksums are uploaded, but I'm going to go eat lunch before I worry about the release announcements.
19:38 dalek parrot: 34916c7 | util++ | t (2 files):
19:38 dalek parrot: Merge branch 'master' of github.com:parrot/parrot
19:38 dalek parrot: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/​34916c7a81946b206a39da94f1941ff590c9ff14
19:40 dalek TT #1849 closed by coke++: config failure post 2.10.0
19:40 dalek TT #1849: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/ticket/1849
19:46 cotto_work #ps in 45
19:54 dalek parrot: 6d7ae9a | jkeenan++ | config/auto/git_describe.pm:
19:54 dalek parrot: Correct documentation error (TT #1851).
19:55 dalek parrot: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/​6d7ae9a8ce0496e20723f77e760af4004c068e1a
19:56 dalek TT #1851 closed by jkeenan++: invalid NAME section in config/auto/describe.pm
19:56 dalek TT #1851: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/ticket/1851
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20:01 whiteknight When the gsoc_nci branch merges, I think I'll be able to get back into writing LAPACK bindings for PLA
20:07 whiteknight Util++
20:08 whiteknight Util: Where is the source of pbc_to_exe?
20:09 Util tools/dev/pbc_to_exe.pir , or did you mean my NQP version?
20:09 whiteknight I didn't know about your NQP version
20:09 whiteknight I though it was written in C. I didn't know it was PIR and bootstrapped
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20:11 Util whiteknight: The PIR program creates a C program and compiles it. I first mentioned my NQP version in #ps seconds before you queried, hence my confusion.
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20:12 mariano__ is now known as bluescreen
20:13 Util (correction, I pre-typed my own notes about a NQP version, and will ask about it during #ps).
20:14 whiteknight :)
20:19 dukeleto Util: git pull --rebase is your friend :)
20:20 dukeleto Util: also, i like your merge announcement
20:21 Util dukeleto: thanks, I know about `git pull --rebase`, and haven been using it on non-branch work, but...
20:22 Util after I merged my branch into master on my laptop, rebasing failed, so regular pull/merge was my only option.
20:22 dukeleto Util: i saw a "merge master" commit from you recently, so just wanted to make sure you know about it
20:22 dukeleto Util: no worries :)
20:22 dukeleto Util: i added more explanation of rebasing to https://github.com/parrot/parrot/blob/m​aster/docs/project/git_terminology.pod as well
20:25 Util dukeleto: I appreciate your telling me.
20:25 * dukeleto is running tests on a gsoc_nci merge
20:25 Util I read in some blog recently: `git rebase` should be called `git lie`.
20:26 dukeleto Util: meh, that is half-right, but gives no context.
20:26 Util Funny though
20:26 Tene dukeleto: --rebase is the default for pull these days, no?
20:26 tcurtis http://www.parrot.org/news/2010/Parrot-2.10.0
20:26 dukeleto Do you want the history of your VCS to record exactly what *did* happen, or a historical narrative, which is a logical progression of "snapshots" in history?
20:26 dukeleto tcurtis++
20:28 dalek website: tcurtis++ | Parrot 2.10.0 "Pesquet's" Released!
20:28 dalek website: http://www.parrot.org/news/2010/Parrot-2.10.0
20:28 Util tcurtis++
20:28 tcurtis Unfortunately, I don't have privileges to update the http://parrot.org/release/developer Anyone with that access around?
20:29 lucian joined #parrot
20:30 whiteknight I can take a look at it
20:32 whiteknight nevermind, I can't remember how to do it
20:32 Coke tcurtis: you see adoughera's bug report? (release is borked)
20:33 Coke (seems like that would have been caught during the release process testing...)
20:34 Coke whiteknight: like 307 or so of the release manager guid.
20:34 Coke *e
20:34 Coke thought making tcurtis a drupal admin is better.
20:34 Coke *though
20:34 mikehh the release WFM
20:34 Coke OH. perhaps doughera is using the initial tag.
20:34 mikehh ain't it #ps time?
20:34 Coke did that message ever go out?
20:35 allison mikehh: should be
20:35 tcurtis Not yet. I was just about to send the release announcement.
20:35 allison mikehh: the recent time-zone changes may still be confusing people
20:36 whiteknight ah, i figured it out. I was looking at URL aliases, not URL redirects
20:36 whiteknight I got this
20:36 Coke replied to andy's ticket.
20:37 whiteknight tcurtis: what's the ftp link?
20:37 Util mikehh: Yes, it is #ps time.
20:37 * dukeleto almost forgot about #ps.
20:38 tcurtis whiteknight: ftp://ftp.parrot.org/pub/parrot/relea​ses/devel/2.10.0/parrot-2.10.0.tar.gz
20:39 Coke tcurtis: is that from the new tag?
20:39 whiteknight done.
20:39 dukeleto incoming!
20:39 dalek parrot: 4fee2b0 | dukeleto++ | / (19 files):
20:39 dalek parrot: Merge branch 'gsoc_nci'
20:39 dalek parrot:
20:39 dalek parrot: Conflicts:
20:39 dalek parrot: MANIFEST
20:39 dalek parrot: MANIFEST.SKIP
20:39 dalek parrot: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/​4fee2b053c7e2325a71040e81c67beff3be0114c
20:40 tcurtis Coke: Yes.
20:42 * allison idly wonders if the unicorn craze started before or after she subtitled her blog "here be unicorns" ;)
20:42 dukeleto allison: much before.
20:42 allison I must have picked up on it subliminally
20:43 allison is it like ponies?
20:43 dukeleto allison: unicorns are quite big in the git and ruby communities. GitHub actually named a project "Unicorn"
20:43 allison heh :)
20:43 sorear github uses a giant unicorn picture for their 500 error page
20:43 dalek TT #1852 created by doughera++: Configure.pl errors in 2.10.0
20:43 dalek TT #1852: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/ticket/1852
20:44 PerlJam joined #parrot
20:44 allison it is a lovely metaphor for things we believe possible, even if we have no proof yet
20:44 Coke boingboing: unicorn chaser.
20:45 NotFound http://en.wikipedia.org/wi​ki/Invisible_Pink_Unicorn
20:46 dukeleto allison: https://github.com/blog/517-unicorn
20:46 Topic for #parrot is now Parrot 2.10.0 Released | http://parrot.org | Log: irclog.perlgeek.de/parrot/today | Long live Git! https://github.com/parrot/parrot | git clone git://github.com/parrot/parrot.git
20:48 mikehh All tests PASS (pre/post-config, make corevm/make coretest, smoke (#1129) fulltest) at 6d7ae9a - Ubuntu 10.10 i386 (g++-4.5 with --optimize)
20:48 Tene I've only heard the term "unicorn chaser" in a rather different setting.
20:49 allison dukeleto: nice! so it *is* like ponies :)
20:49 bacek_ is now known as bacek
20:50 dukeleto allison: yes, unicorns and ponies are very close in the phylogenetic tree of open source mythical creatures :)
20:52 atrodo don't ponies exist?
20:52 Tene atrodo: http://djangopony.com/ -- not like that
20:53 allison atrodo: there is such a thing as a pony, but a ponie is a mythical beast :)
20:53 atrodo I now understand.  I think
20:53 allison atrodo: confusingly, the plural is spelled the same
20:57 donaldh joined #parrot
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20:58 NotFound Yesterday I've seen in youtube a extract of a TV program with photos of real fairies. Looks like photos of UFO are out of trend.
20:59 donaldh__ joined #parrot
21:03 dalek parrot: 27aa849 | jkeenan++ | t/codingstd/pmc_docs.t:
21:03 dalek parrot: [codingstd] One more file passes the pmc_docs.t requirements.
21:03 dalek parrot: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/​27aa849de255f749f63119f089075e5fba7924ed
21:03 donaldh left #parrot
21:03 donaldh__ is now known as donaldh
21:04 donaldh_ left #parrot
21:08 Coke release tarball is borked for me too.
21:08 Coke https://trac.parrot.org/parrot/ticket/1852
21:09 Coke that fairy thing is totally lifted from torchwood!
21:09 dukeleto sadface.
21:09 dukeleto do we need another release tarball?
21:10 NotFound http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l5WcpNd9K3s A bunch of fairy pictures, and a unicorn too
21:10 Coke I think having Configure.pl spit out nasty error messages is worth another tarball, yes.
21:10 dukeleto why don't we have a test that catches that? What is the actual bug?
21:10 Coke odd that it's working for mikehh.
21:11 * dukeleto has to concentrate on $work, who can fix this?
21:11 Coke dukeleto: if the tarball is working for tcurtis, presumably the test would have worked too.
21:11 mikehh Coke - I was just testing the master branch, did not try the tarball
21:12 Coke tcurtis: did you test the tarball before releasing it to the wild?
21:12 tcurtis Coke: I did.
21:12 Coke or did you just test the master branch at that tag?
21:12 Coke tcurtis: and you're not seeing those warnings in Configure.pl ?
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21:14 tcurtis I didn't then, but I am now. It looks like I didn't see them then because I tested the tarball in a subdirectory of the parrot repo.
21:18 dukeleto tcurtis: ouch. That is a subtle bug.
21:18 dukeleto tcurtis: git walked up your directory tree and then Configure.pl did something different
21:23 dukeleto tcurtis: we should disable git stuff in a release tarball, i guess
21:23 dukeleto who knows how to do that?
21:25 mikehh I tested the tarball it ran fine when I used perl Configure.pl --test but gave the errors when I ran it without --test
21:27 dukeleto how do we remove git checks in a release tarball?
21:28 cotto_work Presumably we had soemthing similar for svn
21:28 Coke other things check for -e "DEVELOPING", IIRC.
21:28 jan left #parrot
21:30 dalek tracwiki: v69 | cotto++ | ParrotQuotes
21:30 dalek tracwiki: maybe we should do a thing
21:30 dalek tracwiki: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/wiki/Pa​rrotQuotes?version=69&amp;action=diff
21:32 mikehh Yup, same story, works with perl Configure.pl --test but fails without the --test (I very rarely run without --test on the Configure so didn't pick it up
21:37 mikehh so by running the pre-config tests it works - the tests must pull in something that it needs, but doesen't have without the tests
21:51 spinclad joined #parrot
21:51 mikehh see smoke #1132 - http://smolder.parrot.org/app​/projects/report_details/1132 that's from the tarball
21:58 whiteknight left #parrot
21:58 mikehh .parrot_current_git_describe and .parrot_current_sha1 just contain a newline (0x0a)
21:59 mikehh During configuration the following steps failed:
21:59 dalek parrot: 5604e92 | NotFound++ | t/pmc/string.t:
21:59 dalek parrot: test String to_int method with upper case hex
21:59 dalek parrot: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/​5604e929afdac97f7557b9a4a2c554c881fd4baf
21:59 mikehh 54:  auto::sha1
21:59 mikehh 55:  auto::git_describe
21:59 gert left #parrot
22:00 mikehh the --test I get - During configuration the following steps failed: -     54:  auto::sha1,    55:  auto::git_describe
22:02 mikehh with --test it builds and PASSes all tests through to fulltest
22:02 dukeleto mikehh: i think that is correct. but maybe they shouldn't exist
22:02 dukeleto mikehh: not sure.
22:03 mikehh the first entry should read: without the --test  I get - During configuration the following steps failed: -     54:  auto::sha1,    55:  auto::git_describe
22:05 NotFound winxed -e 'var s = new "String"; say(s.is_integer("+"));' ==> 1 This is by design?
22:06 NotFound POD doc says: "Checks if the ascii STRING C<str> is just an integer."
22:07 NotFound Bare "+" or "-" aren't integers in my mind.
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22:28 fperrad left #parrot
22:28 plobsing_ dukeleto++ # gsoc_nci merge
22:28 GeJ seconded.
22:28 bacek left #parrot
22:30 GeJ dukeleto++  (karma accounting)
22:32 Tene (++)++
22:32 mj41 left #parrot
22:50 dukeleto So is our 2.10.0 tarball still broke?
22:50 dukeleto Do we need to put out a 2.10.1 ? What is the consensus ?
22:51 dukeleto We already told people what 2.10.0 sha1's are. I think that ship has sailed.
22:55 NotFound I'm testing svn to github migration, can someone clone this https://github.com/NotFound/winxed ?
22:58 dukeleto NotFound: git clone?
22:58 dukeleto NotFound: fatal: https://github.com/NotFound/winxed/info/refs not found: did you run git update-server-info on the server?
22:59 dukeleto NotFound: you are missing a .git
23:00 NotFound dukeleto: ups, that was the web.
23:00 tcurtis left #parrot
23:00 NotFound git://github.com/NotFound/winxed.git
23:01 dukeleto NotFound: git clone works fine
23:03 NotFound Is the import from svn that github allows at repository creation time.
23:03 NotFound Looks fine.
23:06 dukeleto NotFound: cool!
23:08 NotFound Just a test for a now, I've not yet decided what to do.
23:08 plobsing_ left #parrot
23:19 jnthn Anyone know off hand what dynoplib the printerr op got shuffled off to?
23:24 cotto_work io.ops
23:24 cotto_work (the dynops version)
23:24 jnthn Thanks, just found it myself too :)
23:47 lucian left #parrot
23:49 GeJ for those of us with the wrong timezones, what happened with the 2.10.0 tarball?
23:50 cotto_work apparently it doesn't know how to deal with not being a git repo
23:51 GeJ at config time I presume.
23:52 cotto_work yes
23:52 cotto_work If you have the tuits to fix it, we need to do so and get a new tarball out as soon as we can.
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