Camelia, the Perl 6 bug

IRC log for #parrot, 2010-11-24

Parrot | source cross referenced

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:00 allison it didn't used to, we used to separate "make install" from "make install-dev"
00:00 allison packages for Linux distributions still make that distinction
00:00 allison (because it's a standard distinctions for all packaging systems)
00:01 allison another vector to think about is who is offering to support the code
00:01 dmalcolm left #parrot
00:01 allison if the parrot developers aren't willing to support it, it shouldn't be in the base tarball
00:01 TypeNameHere_ Excuse me for being a n00b around here, but what exactly is the point of parrot?  What is the benefit of using this over separate VMs for different laguages?
00:03 allison TypeNameHere_: it's difficult to answer that question the way you've asked it, perhaps you could be more specific?
00:03 dukeleto TypeNameHere_: one VM codebase can be used to run many many dynamic languages
00:03 dukeleto TypeNameHere_: and then languages can share resources, like libraries and other bits
00:03 cotto TypeNameHere_, it depends on who's asking.  There are different answers for HLL users, HLL developers and library developers
00:03 dukeleto TypeNameHere_: because things boil down to a bytecode that they all understand
00:04 dukeleto TypeNameHere_: HLL = High Level Language, i.e. a language running on Parrot VM
00:04 allison cotto: for example, we ship some copies of external software in /ext, but even there, we are prepared to answer questions, accept bug reports, and solve problems for the version we ship
00:04 TypeNameHere_ dukeleto: alright, thank you.
00:04 plobsing TypeNameHere_: there's a lower barrier to entry to get a minimal language up and running, less work to get a decent library, and less work to get it embedded in places you never thought of (eg: postgres)
00:04 dukeleto TypeNameHere_: do you have an interest to use Parrot for something?
00:05 TypeNameHere_ dukeleto: not directly; I have an interest in perl 6
00:08 TypeNameHere_ dukeleto: although, it sounds cool enough to start seeing how I can help.(starting at http://www.parrot.org/dev)
00:16 cotto allison, thanks
00:28 whiteknight joined #parrot
00:29 dukeleto TypeNameHere_: sounds good. If you use Rakudo Perl 6, your interest in understand Parrot will grow :)
00:29 dukeleto s/in understand/in understanding/
00:34 TypeNameHere_ dukeleto: actually, I only use 5 so far; I want to adopt the new standards for 6 and, conveniently, I have been very strongly considering going for python as well
00:34 mikehh left #parrot
00:35 dalek parrot: 3b80d03 | jkeenan++ | / (2 files):
00:35 dalek parrot: [configure] Applying patch for TT #1862:
00:35 dalek parrot: Configure.pl should actually test for
00:35 dalek parrot: gcc -fvisibility=hidden support.
00:35 dalek parrot: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/3b80d03eaa
00:36 dukeleto I would like feedback on our brand spanking new Google Code-In 2010 Homepage: http://www.google-melange.com/gci/org/hom​e/google/gci2010/parrot_perl_foundations
00:40 jsut joined #parrot
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00:44 dalek TT #1861 closed by jkeenan++: ipv6 config probe too noisy
00:44 dalek TT #1861: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/ticket/1861
00:45 jsut_ left #parrot
00:46 nopaste "kid51" at 192.168.1.3 pasted "generational_gc branch: build failure at commit 86871e50abf (11 Nov)" (8 lines) at http://nopaste.snit.ch/26102
00:47 kid51 That was on a Linux/i386 box with ample resources.
00:47 bacek_at_work kid51, erm. There is no "failure" in nopaste
00:51 whiteknight dukeleto: page looks nice. Very functional
00:51 dukeleto whiteknight: danke
00:51 dukeleto whiteknight: i went through about 20 revision
00:51 dukeleto s
00:52 whiteknight kid51: I don't think the generational_gc branch is buildable now. The important part there is bacek's new GC design in the comments
00:54 * dukeleto just made the tinyurl http://icanhaz.com/gci2010 for our page
00:55 dalek parrot/embed_api: c4ccd13 | Whiteknight++ | / (10 files):
00:55 dalek parrot/embed_api: first prototype of a new mechanism for setting the configuration hash as a PMC
00:55 dalek parrot/embed_api: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/c4ccd13406
00:55 dalek parrot/embed_api: 1a72bd7 | Whiteknight++ | / (3 files):
00:55 dalek parrot/embed_api: miniparrot builds again and does not segfault. It fails in other ways
00:55 dalek parrot/embed_api: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/1a72bd7c9d
00:55 dalek parrot/embed_api: 65bf81a | Whiteknight++ | / (5 files):
00:55 dalek parrot/embed_api: actually run the code, don't just look at it. Miniparrot runs now. parrot executable fails (but I suspect the problem is easy to fix)
00:55 dalek parrot/embed_api: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/65bf81a51a
00:55 dalek parrot/embed_api: 291f4c3 | Whiteknight++ | src/embed/pmc.c:
00:55 dalek parrot/embed_api: add pmc.c for bluescreen++
00:55 dalek parrot/embed_api: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/291f4c339a
00:56 dalek parrot/embed_api: 5c2c3d4 | Whiteknight++ | / (3 files):
00:56 dalek parrot/embed_api: fix library paths. The build now progresses through all the parts that require the parrot executable and we now need to fix all the ancillary utility programs to also work
00:56 dalek parrot/embed_api: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/5c2c3d4837
00:57 cotto We seem to have 1995K worth of functions in libparrot.so.  It'd be interesting to survey where they come from.
00:59 whiteknight 1995K worth of functions?
01:00 cotto yup
01:00 dalek TT #1861 reopened by coke++: ipv6 config probe too noisy
01:00 dalek TT #1861: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/ticket/1861
01:00 dalek TT #1861 closed by coke++: ipv6 config probe too noisy
01:00 dalek TT #1861: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/ticket/1861
01:00 nopaste "cotto" at 192.168.1.3 pasted "lots and lots of functions" (2 lines) at http://nopaste.snit.ch/26103
01:02 cotto the stripped library is 2.2M
01:02 kid51 bacek:  I should have made it clearer:  The build hung indefinitely at that point.  Tried it twice.
01:02 kid51 So, as whiteknight said, it's not currently buildable
01:02 bacek_at_work kid51, ok. How much memory do you have?
01:02 bacek_at_work (And it was buildable when I stop working on it)
01:03 kid51 This is not one of my personal boxes .... but it's much faster than any of mine:  dual core and all that
01:03 kid51 It hung for at least 5 minutes before I killed it
01:03 whiteknight cotto: did the dynop_mapping branch land?
01:03 kid51 Will try to file more complete report next week
01:03 nwellnhof The generational_gc build also hangs for me when building ops2c
01:04 nwellnhof Linux/i386 in a VM with 768MB RAM
01:04 cotto whiteknight, it landed quite a while back.
01:05 pmichaud left #parrot
01:05 kid51 is now known as kid51_at_dinner
01:05 Util left #parrot
01:05 tadzik left #parrot
01:06 whiteknight oh, nice
01:10 whiteknight cotto++ on the blog post
01:11 dukeleto link?
01:12 cotto http://reparrot.blogspot.com/2010/11/wh​at-happened-in-dynopmapping-branch.html
01:12 dukeleto how do we make http://planet.parrotcode.org/ -> planet.parrot.org ?
01:12 dukeleto can someone setup the CNAME?
01:12 dukeleto everything else on parrocode is deprecated
01:13 dukeleto i meant planet.parrot.org > planet.parrotcode.org
01:13 cotto whiteknight, thanks
01:14 bacek_at_work dukeleto, http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/ticket/1413
01:14 * dukeleto has evidently missed like 20 blog posts in the last few weeks. Good lord.
01:15 bacek_at_work kid51_at_dinner, it hangs because I hardcoded very-very-very-tiny GC threshold. For testing purposes.
01:22 dngor_ joined #parrot
01:22 whiteknight "PARROT VM: Could not load or run bytecodePARROT VM: Catastrophic error. Cannot recover"
01:22 whiteknight so there's a great new error
01:23 whiteknight gaze upon the results of the new embed_api work in awe
01:24 cotto I like it.
01:24 cotto needs a newline though
01:24 dngor left #parrot
01:25 whiteknight Don't criticize my art!
01:30 whiteknight I haven't implemented error messages yet. So the second message "Catastrophic error" comes from the error-handler not being able to read the error message
01:31 whiteknight eventually I'm going to have to do that
01:32 lucian left #parrot
01:33 mikehh joined #parrot
01:33 whiteknight I need to figure out how to do it
01:34 whiteknight The problem is that at the point of passing out a raw error message, we're at the end of the rope with an unhandled exception. I suspect that creating a new STRING at that point may be fraught with danger
01:35 whiteknight but trying to work with C strings is even more stupid
01:35 dalek parrot: 14257c7 | mikehh++ | config/auto/warnings.pm:
01:35 dalek parrot: fix codetest failure - trailing spaces
01:35 dalek parrot: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/14257c7241
01:38 cotto C strings are so much fun.
01:44 tadzik joined #parrot
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01:58 kid51_at_dinner left #parrot
02:12 mikehh All tests PASS (pre/post-config, make corevm/make coretest, smoke (#1287) fulltest) at 14257c7 - Kubuntu 10.10 amd64 (g++-4.5 with --optimize)
02:12 tadzik left #parrot
02:13 dngor_ is now known as dngor
02:14 Util left #parrot
02:14 pmichaud left #parrot
02:17 cotto dukeleto, ping
02:21 cotto plobsing, ping
02:21 plobsing cotto: pong
02:21 cotto plobsing, do you have any plans for pirc's makefile infrastructure?
02:22 plobsing not as of yet. I'm currently trying to find the git-fu to eliminate empty branch merges after git-filter --subdirectory-filter
02:22 cotto http://stackoverflow.com/questions/359424/det​ach-subdirectory-into-separate-git-repository <-?
02:22 plobsing after reasonably translating all of the history, I'll worry about making it stand alone. unless you have some bright ideas
02:22 dalek parrot/embed_api: 46b7a9d | Whiteknight++ | / (5 files):
02:22 dalek parrot/embed_api: upconvert pbc_to_exe to use the new API. it builds, but segfaults building parrot_nci_thunk_gen
02:22 dalek parrot/embed_api: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/46b7a9d88f
02:22 dalek parrot/embed_api: b62a636 | Whiteknight++ | tools/dev/pbc_to_exe.pir:
02:22 dalek parrot/embed_api: fix the runcore so it's a string instead of an integer
02:22 dalek parrot/embed_api: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/b62a63687e
02:23 dalek parrot/embed_api: b574648 | Whiteknight++ | tools/dev/pbc_to_exe.pir:
02:23 dalek parrot/embed_api: use the correct size for the bytecode array, this gets us past the error we were seeing and allows pbc_to_exe to run correctly after bootstrapping. However, now we get an unhandled error in parrot_nci_thunk_gen
02:23 dalek parrot/embed_api: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/b574648de3
02:23 cotto plobsing, no bright ideas from me
02:23 plobsing cotto: that describes what I've done. but now I have a bunch of empty branches merging back at various points in history
02:23 cotto perhaps you could add parts of the generated makefiles as a starting point
02:24 plobsing that sounds like it could work. thanks.
02:27 cotto it had its own makefile before we moved to a monolithic Makefile with includes
02:30 bluescreen joined #parrot
02:33 cotto whiteknight, embed_api doesn't build for me
02:33 cotto is that expected?
02:34 bluescreen are you using gcc?
02:34 cotto sure
02:34 bluescreen there is a minor fix in api.c
02:35 cotto that's the file that doesn't compile
02:35 bluescreen around line 159, the last ; from EMBED_API_CALLIN(interp_pmc, interp)
02:35 bluescreen has to be removed
02:35 dukeleto cotto: pong
02:35 bluescreen stupid gcc thinks ";" is a line of code
02:35 dukeleto all this embedding API work is very awesome
02:36 cotto dukeleto, I was going to ask about the git-fu behind moving pirc to a separate repo, but plobsing seems to be on it already
02:36 cotto bluescreen, where's the stray ;?
02:36 dukeleto cotto: awesome. laziness works again!
02:36 cotto I love that virtue.
02:36 bluescreen line 159
02:36 rurban_ joined #parrot
02:37 bluescreen where is no paste
02:37 cotto plobsing, ok
02:37 cotto aloha, nopaste?
02:37 aloha cotto: nopaste is is http://nopaste.snit.ch (works with the script in $_PARROT/tools/dev/nopaste.pl)
02:38 dukeleto plobsing: what git-fu are you doing?
02:39 plobsing dukeleto: I've done a filter-branch --subdirectory-filter to extract only the history that pertains to pirc. unfortunatly, it doesn't eliminate useless branch merge commits.
02:39 rurban left #parrot
02:39 nopaste "bluescreen" at 192.168.1.3 pasted "api.c diff" (13 lines) at http://nopaste.snit.ch/26106
02:39 rurban_ is now known as rurban
02:39 plobsing so I've got a ton of empty branches getting merged back in the history. I'd like the history to be clean before I push it
02:40 plobsing dukeleto: any idea how to delete these automatically (or even manually?)
02:42 whiteknight left #parrot
02:42 cotto bluescreen, it looks like there are a handful of other stray semicolons too.
02:43 bluescreen cotto, getting other errors?
02:43 bluescreen or warnings?
02:43 cotto errors, though after fixing those the build explodes in some other places
02:44 bluescreen pbc_to_exe?
02:44 cotto runtime/parrot/library/PGE/Perl6Grammar.pir actually
02:44 cotto er, compilers/pge/PGE/builtins.pg
02:45 bluescreen what do you get?
02:45 cotto segfault
02:46 cotto I'm running realclean to make sure there's no leftovers interfering with the build.
02:47 cotto same thing
02:47 bluescreen I'm going to checkout github repo again and give it a try
02:51 dukeleto plobsing: you can use filter-branch again to remove the commits, but it sounds like your original filter-branch probably had a bug in it
02:51 dukeleto plobsing: you can tell filter-branch to ignore merge commits that don't have a diff, or something like that
02:53 mikehh rakudo (90cb844) - build on parrot (471-g14257c7) - make test PASS, make spectest_smolder[(#1288) roast (2c952c4)] FAIL - Kubuntu 10.10 amd64 (g++-4.5 with --optimize)
02:53 mikehh 26,262 ok, 8 failed, 607 todo, 1,858 skipped and 1 unexpectedly succeeded
02:53 tadzik joined #parrot
02:53 dalek parrot/embed_api: 7836edb | cotto++ | src/embed/ (2 files):
02:53 dalek parrot/embed_api: remove some stray semicolons that break the gcc build
02:53 dalek parrot/embed_api: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/7836edb24c
02:56 Util joined #parrot
02:56 plobsing dukeleto: really? I read in the doc that the --prune-empty command (which is supposed to do something to that effect) only works on commits with 1 parent
02:57 pmichaud joined #parrot
03:01 dukeleto plobsing: you will have to actually write a commit filter
03:01 hercynium left #parrot
03:01 bluescreen cotto: you were right there were bunch other of those errors
03:01 cotto bluescreen, fixed
03:03 cotto bacek_at_work, how current is docs/memory_internals.pod?
03:03 dukeleto plobsing: https://github.com/leto/Util/blob/mas​ter/bin/parrot_conversion/fix_gej.sh
03:04 dukeleto plobsing: it's an env-filter, actually
03:04 dukeleto plobsing: time git filter-branch -f --env-filter '. /home/leto/fix_gej.sh' -- --all
03:04 dukeleto plobsing: that is the command i used
03:05 plobsing dukeleto: I'm thinking of doing a --parent-filter
03:05 dukeleto plobsing: sure, TIMTOWDI
03:05 plobsing if a merge commit has no diff with one of it's parents, delete the other parent
03:06 plobsing is there some way to dry-run these things?
03:12 dukeleto plobsing: i think so
03:12 dukeleto plobsing: git help filter-branch
03:17 cotto does anyone know what happened to src/gc/alloc_register.c?  It's referenced in src/gc/api.c but doesn't exist.
03:18 plobsing alloc_register? what does gc have to do with register allocation?
03:20 cotto 1 - nothing apparently.  2 - I think it was allocating space for registers, not allocating their use
03:21 bluescreen left #parrot
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03:29 cotto anyone know what "interact with some of the architecture of Parrot" in src/gc/api.c means?
03:29 cotto git blames whiteknight
03:30 plobsing cotto: probably got moved into contexts then
03:30 plobsing or pcc
03:32 cotto plobsing, either way, it sounds like I can safely remove the reference to it from the docs
03:32 GeJ dukeleto: I'm sorry, but I do not approve. What makes you think that I need to be fixed?
03:32 GeJ oh wait...
03:39 dukeleto GeJ: just showing plobsing how i used filter-branch. Just an example.
03:39 cotto GeJ, we don
03:40 cotto 't fix what's not broken. ;)
03:50 bacek_at_work cotto, docs/memory_internals.pod require some cleanup. With fire.
03:50 cotto bacek_at_work, why is src/gc/variable_size_pool.c empty?  Do we need it?
03:51 bacek_at_work cotto, no idea. Did I add it?
03:51 cotto no. You just happen to know the gc code better than most.
03:51 bacek_at_work just kill it then
03:51 bacek_at_work probably my mistake anyway
03:52 cotto svm
03:52 cotto wfm
03:52 cotto . o 0 (at least I got one letter right)
03:52 cotto bacek_at_work, why do we keep src/gc/malloc.c and src/gc/malloc_trace.c around if they're unused?
03:53 cotto btw, variable_size_pool.h has a struct, so it might have been your plan to move some functions into the .c file
03:55 bacek_at_work erm. Looks like you're right.
03:55 bacek_at_work GCI task?
03:56 bacek_at_work afk # another (4th for today) meeting
03:57 cotto if I don't have the tuits, sure.  I wouldn't mind an excuse to mess with some gc code though.
04:09 cotto wheee.  We have a gci pull request.
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04:13 dukeleto cotto: link?
04:15 GeJ https://github.com/parrot/parrot/pull/1
04:15 cotto what GeJ said
04:15 GeJ Looks like Andy's already on it.
04:16 dukeleto I commented as well :)
04:16 cotto no moss on us
04:17 cotto If those are part of our api, won't they need a deprecation cycle?
04:17 dukeleto Also, won't anything that uses them not compile now?
04:17 dukeleto Ah, i see. Only 2 other files used them.
04:31 cognominal left #parrot
04:34 dalek parrot: 6821e89 | petdance++ | / (4 files):
04:34 dalek parrot: annotations and markers on arguments
04:34 dalek parrot: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/6821e89d2b
04:41 plobsing I feel as though I should be deleting the parrot release tags as well. they don't really have meaning for pirc which was never released.
04:45 cotto plobsing, sure
04:53 dalek parrot: bee67f0 | petdance++ | src/packdump.c:
04:53 dalek parrot: removed unused argument from static function
04:53 dalek parrot: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/bee67f0038
04:54 nopaste "plobsing" at 192.168.1.3 pasted "[git parent-filter] delete useless parents" (36 lines) at http://nopaste.snit.ch/26108
04:55 plobsing https://github.com/plobsing/parrot-pirc \o/
04:56 plobsing (I didn't know if/how to make parrot/parrot-pirc)
04:58 cotto it'll be tricky to use without a proper Makefile, but whether you bother is entirely up to you.
04:58 cotto plobsing++
04:59 plobsing I may or may not put more work into this at some point. the important thing is the history is extracted and preserved
05:00 cotto agreed
05:01 cotto are you comfortable with someone ripping out pirc at this point?
05:01 cotto actually, it doesn't matter.  I can do it in a branch and merge when you are.
05:01 plobsing heh, I'm halfway through that already
05:02 plobsing >:)
05:02 cotto then I won't bother
05:02 cotto plobsing++
05:02 cotto That's certainly the fun part.
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05:17 dalek parrot: f4cabb1 | plobsing++ | co (54 files):
05:17 dalek parrot: delete pirc
05:17 dalek parrot:
05:17 dalek parrot: Per discussion on #parrotsketch (2010-11-23) this will be removed as it is
05:17 dalek parrot: unlikely to serve our purposes in its current form.
05:17 dalek parrot:
05:17 dalek parrot: It has been split out into it's own project currently hosted at
05:17 dalek parrot: https://github.com/plobsing/parrot-pirc. Any further developments should occur
05:17 dalek parrot: there.
05:17 dalek parrot: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/f4cabb12b1
05:17 dalek parrot: 829c859 | plobsing++ | MANIFEST:
05:17 dalek parrot: mk_manifest_and_skip
05:17 dalek parrot: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/829c859d84
05:22 cotto I need to write a policy document on the proper use of "its" and "it's".
05:23 cotto plobsing++
05:24 plobsing yes, my grammar is horrid. that's how you can tell I'm a native english speaker.
05:25 cotto it does seem to happen with native speakers more often
05:27 plobsing now how do I get dalek to monitor the new pirc repo?
05:29 cotto do you have a commit bit for perl6/mu on github?
05:29 cotto the config file is misc/dalek-something.json
05:30 plobsing ENOPERM
05:30 cotto I can do it.
05:33 cotto done
05:33 plobsing cotto++
05:34 cotto nice use for github's web editing interface
05:41 dalek parrot: 85ae767 | plobsing++ | NEWS:
05:41 dalek parrot: add news entry re: pirc removal
05:41 dalek parrot: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/85ae767768
05:41 cotto now the question is whether to close all of pirc's tickets outright or to make an attempt to migrate them to github
05:41 plobsing do we have a list of all of them?
05:41 cotto they should have the pirc tag
05:44 plobsing how do I search tickets by tag?
05:44 cotto http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/report/30
05:45 cotto It's a bit weak.  I think you have to make a report.
05:45 plobsing I found the "custom query" button
05:45 plobsing it appears to do what I want
05:47 cotto so it does
05:47 plobsing it appears pirc has 16 open tickets
05:48 cotto I'll reject all the tickets so they won't be confused with tickets that have been fixed.
05:49 plobsing I'd prefer to hold off until we import them
05:49 plobsing I have no idea how to do that
05:55 cotto plobsing, you could make a query show everything about a ticket for trac for export and use github's api to import them.
05:58 cotto or use this: https://github.com/davglass/trac2issues
05:59 cotto Hm.  That has to be run on the trac server.
06:01 plobsing it's a start
06:03 cotto I appreciate that you're trying to be fair to pirc.  You're more patient than I am.
06:12 plobsing trac doesn't appear to have a web api
06:13 plobsing I'll look into this further tomorrow
06:30 bacek_at_work plobsing, why /plobsing/parrot-pirc not /parrot/pirc?
06:30 bacek_at_work you should able to create new repo in /parrot
06:31 cotto bacek_at_work, only a few people have admin bits now
06:32 bacek_at_work ah, ok. Then ask one of them to create new repo.
06:38 cotto dukeleto, ping
06:49 NotFound Do you want to create parrot/pirc on github?
06:53 cotto NotFound, that'd be ideal
06:53 cotto do you have a commit bit for that?
06:53 bacek joined #parrot
06:53 NotFound Yeah. Please tell me the description.
06:54 cotto ohai bacek
06:54 cotto aloha, clock?????
06:54 cotto aloha, clock
06:54 cotto aloha, msg aloha aloha
06:54 aloha cotto: OK. I'll deliver the message.
06:54 cotto aloha, clock?
06:54 aloha cotto: cotto: LAX: Tue, 22:54 PST / CHI: Wed, 00:54 CST / NYC: Wed, 01:54 EST / UTC: Wed, 06:54 UTC / LON: Wed, 06:54 GMT / BER: Wed, 07:54 CET / TOK: Wed, 15:54 JST / SYD: Wed, 17:54 EST
06:59 NotFound Created: https://github.com/parrot/pirc, empty for a now, someone must initialize it. Description is: "Experimental PIR compiler"
07:00 cotto NotFound, thanks
07:11 sorear NotFound: That was a Spanish question, not a Perl 6 one
07:12 sorear NotFound: there's some very handwavey stuff in the Perl 6 spec about language-specific concepts of a character that may cause .chars and .codepoints to be different
07:31 NotFound sorear: I've not looked at that yet.
07:36 sorear NotFound: I'm just asking about the principle of least suprise
07:37 sorear to someone who has not read the Perl 6 spec, are there any contexts where Perl should treat "ch" as one letter?
07:38 NotFound Anyaway, composing characters is not frequent in Spanish. Composing keys generate individual codepoints. We even have a key for n tilde, for maximum laziness.
07:38 NotFound sorear: ah, ch. No, even the academics finally aknoledged that ch is a c and a h.
07:39 NotFound An ll is two l. It's a wonderful world.
07:39 NotFound It always amazed me how language academics kept confusing characters and phonemes for so long time.
07:40 NotFound Even now, they say that 'ñ' is a character, they are unable to see n + ~
07:42 NotFound There were public protests some years ago when was proposed to drop the 'ñ' from keyboards. The apocalype will come if people must do more than one keystroke to get a ñ.
07:44 NotFound The same people that never had any troule pressing ' + a to get á.
07:45 NotFound But at least, ch and ll are no more in dictionaries. We've got some progress.
07:46 sorear "á".chars == 1 falls out naturally of NFG
07:46 sorear I wonder if NFG might be all we really need
07:47 NotFound For Spanish, I think yes. For languages with much more complex character sets, I dunno.
07:48 sorear Can you name a language that I should study for this next?
07:48 NotFound Maybe Klingon? ;)
07:49 NotFound Don't know, I've read a lot about that things but never remeber the details.
07:49 sorear Perl 6 only cares about those languages that Unicode cares about
07:50 fperrad joined #parrot
07:50 NotFound sorear: unicode has Klingon... well, some unicode implementations has it in optional planes, that is.
07:50 * sorear could only think of Spanish and German as languages with interesting character concepts, and moritz has already said basically what you did about ss
07:51 NotFound sorear: I think there are some problems with romanic languages written with cirillic characters...maybe Croatian.
08:09 cotto bacek_at_work, what's gc_ms2_magical_mark?
08:21 theory left #parrot
08:38 plobsing left #parrot
08:47 dalek parrot: fa56f62 | fperrad++ | tools/install/smoke.pl:
08:47 dalek parrot: PIRC is gone
08:47 dalek parrot: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/fa56f62f1d
08:48 sorear has anyone been troubled by the github url butcherer?
08:49 cotto sorear, what do you mena?
08:49 cotto *mean
08:49 moritz you mean that it's not the full SHA1 in the URL?
08:50 lucian joined #parrot
08:50 sorear moritz: yes
08:50 sorear I put in an ad-hoc pass to remove the last 30 characters of URLs matching /github.*commit\/[0-9a-f]{40}4/
08:51 sorear s:2nd'4'$'
08:51 cotto I like that.  It removes some visual noise.
08:51 cotto sorear++
08:51 * moritz likes it too
11:23 szbalint yeah, collisions are rare anyway, but much better for humans this way.
11:39 mikehh got a wierd test failure here - t/pmc/fixedstringarray.t is failing in corevm/coretest but not in test
11:40 mikehh 1) it failed after running test 40 - looks like a segfault (test 41 the next test is in sub test_gc
11:41 mikehh 2) extracted the test_gc sub - ran ok
11:42 mikehh 3) extracted the tests - sub equality_tests, added them , ran ok
11:42 mikehh 4)  prove t/pmc/fixedarray.t still fails in the same place
11:48 mikehh so running the tests (corevm/coretest) fails after test 40 - extracting tests 34 - 44, runs ok
11:52 mikehh BTW this is on Kubuntu 10.10 amd64 (g++-4.5) - (RELEASE_2_10_1-477-gfa56f62)
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13:23 whiteknight got my first pull request from a GCI student!!
13:23 whiteknight good morning, #parrot
13:26 whiteknight brb, firefox is in ur computer, eatin all ur RAMs
13:26 whiteknight left #parrot
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13:44 dalek parrot/datatypes_func_renames: 45e28a4 | (Matt Rajca)++ | / (5 files):
13:44 dalek parrot/datatypes_func_renames: Rename public functions in src/datatypes.c
13:44 dalek parrot/datatypes_func_renames: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/45e28a4fa6
13:44 dalek parrot/datatypes_func_renames: 1309405 | (Matt Rajca)++ | / (2 files):
13:44 dalek parrot/datatypes_func_renames: Ran headerizer
13:44 dalek parrot/datatypes_func_renames: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/13094058e7
13:52 mikehh get that test failing in Ubuntu amd64 as well, just corevm/coretest and with g++, but passes gcc and with --optimize (t/pmc/fixedarray.t)
13:53 * mikehh got to go out for a while, bbl
13:54 mikehh left #parrot
13:55 bluescreen joined #parrot
13:56 Coke .. why move pirc to a separate repository? is someone going to work on it?
13:57 Coke (why not just kill it with fire)
14:01 dalek TT #1869 created by whiteknight++: Move Parrot::Embed into it's own repo
14:01 dalek TT #1869: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/ticket/1869
14:01 dalek TT #1870 created by whiteknight++: Move OpenGL Bindings to their own project/repo
14:01 dalek TT #1870: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/ticket/1870
14:03 Coke aloha: msg cotto - there's a lot of residual "pirc" cruft left in the repo.
14:03 aloha Coke: OK. I'll deliver the message.
14:04 whiteknight joined #parrot
14:06 Coke mk_manifest_and_skip.pl doesn't seem to care that compilers/pirc no longer exists...
14:13 darbelo whiteknight: ping
14:13 whiteknight darbelo: pong
14:14 darbelo whiteknight: Did you do the opengl move?
14:14 whiteknight darbelo: no, I've only suggested it
14:15 darbelo Ah, ok. I just remembered something that might be an issue.
14:15 whiteknight what is it?
14:15 whiteknight #1870, to track the issue
14:17 darbelo That code uses NCI extensively, with some very hairy signatures, so it hooks into configure to get the thunks it needs compiled into parrot. I remember japhb mentining it couldn't move out wihtout proper run-time NCI support.
14:17 dalek TT #1629 closed by whiteknight++: find_codepoint experimental op
14:17 dalek TT #1629: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/ticket/1629
14:18 whiteknight darbelo: I think the gsoc_nci branch merged. We have full libffi support now
14:18 whiteknight opengl probably needs an update, but it shouldn't be too big a hassle
14:19 darbelo Last I ckecked it, it worked fine (to the level my onboard graphics could exercise it)
14:20 darbelo You can use it from winxed too.
14:20 whiteknight yes
14:22 dalek parrot: 2b58997 | Whiteknight++ | / (2 files):
14:22 dalek parrot: find_codepoint is no longer experimental, it is supported. Remove the entry from DEPRECATED.pod and add a short blurb to NEWS
14:22 dalek parrot: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/2b5899726f
14:22 dalek parrot: 1d07f22 | Whiteknight++ | / (82 files):
14:22 dalek parrot: merge in trunk, fix conflict in NEWS
14:22 dalek parrot: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/1d07f227d0
14:25 * Coke sees the answer to his question in #Ps logs: plobsing has too much spare time. Fair enough. ;)
14:26 plobsing joined #parrot
14:26 Coke ugh. feels like there's more slow NQP stuff getting built.
14:26 Coke slow-to-build, that is.
14:29 bluescreen left #parrot
14:32 plobsing darbelo: (re: opengl) the thunks it requires are no longer baked into parrot, but are in stead generated as a dynlib by nci_thunk_gen
14:32 whiteknight plobsing: and even that should be able to go away with the libffi stuff merged, right?
14:32 plobsing no
14:32 whiteknight why not?
14:33 plobsing libffi is not available everywhere
14:33 whiteknight ah, okay. But where libffi is available, those don't need to be built
14:33 whiteknight ?
14:33 plobsing possibly not.
14:33 whiteknight awesome
14:33 plobsing libffi is decidedly less efficient than aot or jit thunks
14:33 whiteknight ah, gotcha
14:33 plobsing but if you're worried about thunk efficiency, you're probably doing it wrong
14:34 whiteknight maybe next step on the road to NCI world domination is an LLVM-backed thunk generator
14:35 plobsing sure. why not? start a project. it doesn't need to be internal
14:35 plobsing my libjit thunk generator works fine as an add-on library (modulo users not knowing how to install libraries on their own)
14:37 darbelo The problem I was referring to is that those thunks are generated at parrot build-time, they'll have to be moved to opengl build-time, at which time the compiler used to build parrot may or may not be present.
14:37 plobsing thats the same problem any library with C components faces.
14:37 plobsing we have libraries with ops and pmcs. they don't seem to be bothered too much.
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14:38 darbelo No, but currently opengl 'Just works' by riding on top of configure, we have to make sure it continues to efter moving out.
14:39 darbelo There's piles of arcane knowledge in the configure step, I'm just trying to make sure it doesn't get lost in the move.
14:40 bluescreen joined #parrot
14:40 plobsing There's piles of arcane knowledge in that configure step, that's why we're trying to remove it.
14:41 plobsing well, part of why at least
14:42 whiteknight plobsing: where is your libjit thunk generator?
14:42 plobsing_ joined #parrot
14:43 whiteknight plobsing_: where is your libjit thunk generator?
14:43 plobsing_ github
14:43 plobsing_ https://github.com/plobsing/parrot-libjit-fb
14:47 dalek parrot: d3046c1 | plobsing++ | NEWS:
14:47 dalek parrot: update pirc removal news item to use official repo
14:47 dalek parrot: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/d3046c14e6
14:47 dalek parrot: dab3652 | plobsing++ | / (3 files):
14:47 dalek parrot: Merge branch 'master' of github.com:parrot/parrot
14:47 dalek parrot: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/dab3652ed2
14:47 whiteknight ah, okay. That's what I was wondering. a dynpmc does seem like the perfect vehicle for this
14:47 plobsing left #parrot
14:48 whiteknight Parrot's NCI frame builder system is all PMC-based internally? You can register any dynpmc as a framebuilder?
14:48 plobsing_ yes
14:49 plobsing_ pluggable everything
14:49 whiteknight It's been a while since I really looked at that subsystem. I really need to give it another glance over
14:49 plobsing_ it's still a little hairy inside, but I feel like we've made some improvements
14:50 whiteknight Where does the libjitframebuilder PMC actually get registered as the system thunk builder?
14:51 whiteknight VTABLE_set_pmc_keyed_int(interp, interp->iglobals, IGLOBALS_NCI_FB_CB, callback);?
14:51 plobsing_ yes, there are *two* iglobals that need to be set
14:52 plobsing_ callback and userdata
14:52 whiteknight and userdata is an instance of libjitframebuilder?
14:53 plobsing_ callback is a PMC on which get_pointer returns a function of a particular signature.
14:53 plobsing_ userdata is any pmc you like. it gets passed to the function
14:53 whiteknight hmmm... this is all very cool looking
14:54 plobsing_ in this case, yes, it is a libjitframebuilder
14:54 whiteknight so the system gets the function pointer out of IGLOBALS_NCI_FB_CB, and then calls that function with the data from IGLOBALS_NCI_FB_UD and the signature string
14:55 whiteknight I assume these thunks are getting cached somewhere, so we aren't constantly regenerating them?
14:55 plobsing_ yes
14:56 whiteknight in short I would say "yes, we've made a shitload of progress in this subsystem"
14:56 whiteknight and you are in no small way responsible for it
14:56 plobsing_ src/nci/api.c:build_call_func takes care of the cacheing
14:57 plobsing_ whiteknight: I did most of that back in the spring. the subsystem's been mostly dormant since then. gsoc_nci simply uses the existing hooks.
14:57 whiteknight as one small suggestion, I think we should encapsulate the IGLOBALS garbage behind a function like Parrot_nci_register_frame_builder()
14:58 whiteknight but i'm in the "make better interfaces for all this shit" mode
14:59 plobsing_ that might be nice. overkill possibly, but nice nonetheless. my next move for the subsystem is to complete the encapsulation of frame builders from the signature strings
15:00 darbelo 'One signature to bind them all'?
15:00 whiteknight so where does the libffi stuff come in, does it have a PMC type somewhere?
15:00 plobsing_ whiteknight: it piggy-backs on a ManagedStruct PMC. ManagedStruct is a poor-man's PMC class.
15:01 whiteknight ah yeah, I'm looking at the src/nci/libffi.c file now
15:02 plobsing_ oops, make that UnManagedStruct. potato potato.
15:02 whiteknight potato, unpotato
15:02 plobsing_ internet is not a good medium for accents
15:03 whiteknight internet isn't so bad, it's the keyboards that are lacking
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15:08 dalek parrot/datatypes_func_renames: 6821e89 | petdance++ | / (4 files):
15:08 dalek parrot/datatypes_func_renames: annotations and markers on arguments
15:08 dalek parrot/datatypes_func_renames: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/6821e89d2b
15:08 dalek parrot/datatypes_func_renames: bee67f0 | petdance++ | src/packdump.c:
15:08 dalek parrot/datatypes_func_renames: removed unused argument from static function
15:08 dalek parrot/datatypes_func_renames: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/bee67f0038
15:08 dalek parrot/datatypes_func_renames: f4cabb1 | plobsing++ | co (54 files):
15:08 dalek parrot/datatypes_func_renames: delete pirc
15:08 dalek parrot/datatypes_func_renames:
15:08 dalek parrot/datatypes_func_renames: Per discussion on #parrotsketch (2010-11-23) this will be removed as it is
15:08 dalek parrot/datatypes_func_renames: unlikely to serve our purposes in its current form.
15:08 dalek parrot/datatypes_func_renames:
15:08 dalek parrot/datatypes_func_renames: It has been split out into it's own project currently hosted at
15:08 dalek parrot/datatypes_func_renames: https://github.com/plobsing/parrot-pirc. Any further developments should occur
15:08 dalek parrot/datatypes_func_renames: there.
15:08 dalek parrot/datatypes_func_renames: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/f4cabb12b1
15:08 dalek parrot/datatypes_func_renames: 829c859 | plobsing++ | MANIFEST:
15:08 dalek parrot/datatypes_func_renames: mk_manifest_and_skip
15:08 dalek parrot/datatypes_func_renames: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/829c859d84
15:08 dalek parrot/datatypes_func_renames: 85ae767 | plobsing++ | NEWS:
15:08 dalek parrot/datatypes_func_renames: add news entry re: pirc removal
15:08 dalek parrot/datatypes_func_renames: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/85ae767768
15:08 dalek parrot/datatypes_func_renames: fa56f62 | fperrad++ | tools/install/smoke.pl:
15:08 dalek parrot/datatypes_func_renames: PIRC is gone
15:08 dalek parrot/datatypes_func_renames: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/fa56f62f1d
15:08 dalek parrot/datatypes_func_renames: 2b58997 | Whiteknight++ | / (2 files):
15:08 dalek parrot/datatypes_func_renames: find_codepoint is no longer experimental, it is supported. Remove the entry from DEPRECATED.pod and add a short blurb to NEWS
15:08 dalek parrot/datatypes_func_renames: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/2b5899726f
15:08 dalek parrot/datatypes_func_renames: 1d07f22 | Whiteknight++ | / (82 files):
15:08 dalek parrot/datatypes_func_renames: merge in trunk, fix conflict in NEWS
15:08 dalek parrot/datatypes_func_renames: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/1d07f227d0
15:08 dalek parrot/datatypes_func_renames: a68cfef | Whiteknight++ | / (63 files):
15:08 dalek parrot/datatypes_func_renames: Merge branch 'master' into datatypes_func_renames
15:08 dalek parrot/datatypes_func_renames: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/a68cfef4cc
15:08 plobsing_ I feel like I've seen this before
15:09 darbelo plobsing_: git merges replay the commits
15:09 darbelo You have seen this before.
15:10 plobsing_ sure merges replay commits, but does dalek have to?
15:10 whiteknight oh shit, i didn't realize all those commits were going to come in here
15:10 darbelo He reports commits. Those are commits. He doesn't ask questions.
15:11 darbelo He just pulls the trigger.
15:11 whiteknight if git is going to generate more IRC traffic, maybe we need a second chatroom for it
15:11 whiteknight #parrotfeed or something like that
15:11 whiteknight ha, has anybody ever seen the commit feed for english wikipedia?
15:12 darbelo Unrelated thought. plobsing_, where do you see IMCC fitting in the bright shiny 'no implicit PIR compiler ' world?
15:12 whiteknight darbelo: somewhere in a trash dumpster
15:12 whiteknight :)
15:13 plobsing_ imcc or more likely pirc might get resurected as dynlibs
15:13 whiteknight They are going to be stand-alone front-ends for libparrot
15:13 whiteknight and dynlibs too
15:14 whiteknight you will load_language "PIR" to load it in
15:14 plobsing_ unless bacek beats us them to it. never try to race the coding robot.
15:15 darbelo Let me put it in end-user terms. I downloaded parrot, I typed make install and have a 'parrot' executable. Can I type 'parrot some.pir' and have it work?
15:17 darbelo If so, then there's still an implicit PIR compiler in the parrot executable (let's call it libpirc).
15:17 whiteknight darbelo: step back. The better question is "will I have a parrot executable"
15:17 whiteknight ?
15:17 whiteknight think of java and javac. The java.exe file does nothing except run compiled bytecode
15:18 plobsing_ darbelo: what most people expect from parrot.exe actually belongs in parrot-pir
15:18 whiteknight javac compiles the java language into bytecode but does not run it
15:18 Coke you crazy kids. I remember when parrot had an explicit assembler and an explicit ... runner.
15:18 Coke and then we absorbed imcc.
15:18 whiteknight Coke: yeah, it's never too late to correct the mistake
15:18 Coke and now we're heading back the other way!
15:19 whiteknight I don't think we are going to have multiple executables like that. That's not really what we want
15:19 plobsing_ Coke: yes, but now IMCC is the greater of the evil options
15:19 darbelo That's the clarification I want. We'll have libparrot, a library that runs bytecode, and then a small constellation of language fakecutables, with no implicit 'parrot language'
15:19 Coke Yup. not saying you're going in the wrong direction. It's just amusing.
15:19 whiteknight but libparrot is just a library, and we can link it into any front-end that we want
15:20 Coke I think not having a specific, supported, minimal language is a mistake.
15:20 whiteknight there will be a parrot-pir frontend (probably based on IMCC or PIRC initially, but eventually will be a fakecutable for PIRATE)
15:20 Coke (I don't think it has to be PIR in the form of IMCC)
15:20 whiteknight Coke: we do ship NQP-RX in with our releases
15:20 whiteknight we could easily include another front-end there too
15:20 * darbelo starts chewing his own boot straps.
15:21 whiteknight The difference is that libparrot is our main "product". Anything else we have is just an addon to that
15:22 atrodo I agree with Coke, having a shipped language will help people that want to dive into developing/playing with parrot
15:23 Coke nqp-rx is fine, if even-slower-than-pir-and-can​'t-do-everything-imcc-does.
15:24 darbelo Hm. If we want PIRATE to fully bootstrap we'll need a stable bytecode format.
15:24 whiteknight Coke: NQP is just one example of an alternate front-end that we ship with our releases
15:24 whiteknight There will be more. Winxed is an example of a low-level language with most of the capabilities of IMCC and good speed
15:25 Coke http://www.theregister.co.uk/20​10/11/23/darily_ubuntu_updates/
15:25 whiteknight I don't know if we'll ever be able to include that in with the repo or not
15:26 plobsing_ whiteknight: why not? it's not like we own nqp. we ship it anyways.
15:26 whiteknight plobsing_: It's NotFound's decision whether we incorporate it or not. I don't presume to know what he would want
15:26 plobsing_ afk # meeting
15:27 whiteknight legally it's under a free license and we could just take it and tell NotFound to suck an egg. Realistically we're not going to do that without the author's permission
15:28 NotFound winxed is (C) me, not pafo. If you want it on the parrot repo, I don't have any problem. Just ask.
15:29 NotFound And if you want to transfer ownership to pafo, I can agree provided that I retain some design control.
15:29 whiteknight NotFound: we're not there yet, but when somebody wants an alternative to PIR, I'm comfortable suggesting Winxed
15:31 whiteknight NotFound: what license does it use? I don't see a LICENSE file or anything in your repo
15:32 whiteknight ah nevermind, I see it on googlecode: Artistic/GPL
15:32 NotFound whiteknight: yeah, I'm always lazy about including legalese and such in the repos.
15:32 whiteknight Basically, it wouldn't be a transfer of ownership. You always own it. under the artistic license anybody can use it, copy it, modify it, so long as we always give you proper attribution
15:33 whiteknight but again, we're not there yet
15:34 NotFound Transferig copyright mainly means that if the need arise to sue someone, other people will pay the legal costs ;)
15:35 whiteknight :)
15:36 whiteknight well then you're looking at the wrong people, because PaFo ain't gots no money
15:39 whiteknight I'm going to merge that datatypes_func_renames branch. Incoming.
15:40 dalek parrot: 6993dc3 | Whiteknight++ | NEWS:
15:40 dalek parrot: mention the purpose of this branch merge in NEWS
15:40 dalek parrot: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/6993dc37bc
15:40 dalek parrot: 2f5ab6e | Whiteknight++ | NEWS:
15:40 dalek parrot: Merge branch 'master' of github.com:parrot/parrot
15:40 dalek parrot: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/2f5ab6e824
15:40 dalek parrot: a3a874d | Coke++ | / (15 files):
15:40 dalek parrot: remove more pirc references.
15:40 dalek parrot: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/a3a874ddac
15:40 dalek parrot: 31eeb30 | Coke++ | docs/ (2 files):
15:40 dalek parrot: Update/Remove some stale references to languages/
15:40 dalek parrot: dir (long gone.)
15:40 dalek parrot: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/31eeb30e63
15:57 whiteknight I love looking at the network graph for parrot https://github.com/parrot/parrot/network
15:57 whiteknight I don't always understand why there are so many lines in there, but it's still cool to see how much we are acheiving
16:08 dukeleto 'ello
16:08 whiteknight hello dukeleto
16:08 whiteknight we have our first successfull GCI project. I just merged it
16:09 whiteknight several of the other tasks are listed as ActionNeeded because of the short timeouts, but I can't seem to take any action on them. So they look kind of stuck
16:10 bluescreen left #parrot
16:17 Coke we have 35 build warnings in a gcc 4.2.1 build without --cage
16:20 nopaste "coke" at 192.168.1.3 pasted "non cage warnings" (35 lines) at http://nopaste.snit.ch/26119
16:21 Coke that's a non-helpful IP address. ;)
16:21 whiteknight ah, many of those should be easy to resolve
16:21 whiteknight Coke: can you post that to the parrot-dev list? Getting all those cleaned up by 2.11 would be nice. by 3.0 should be a necessity
16:23 dukeleto whiteknight: awesome to hear that we have a GCI pull request!
16:24 Coke how about I open a ticket instead?
16:24 Coke hurm. actually there's a wiki page...
16:24 theory joined #parrot
16:25 whiteknight Coke: however you want to advertise it is cool. Getting warnings fixed is something we definitely should be doing regularly
16:26 bluescreen joined #parrot
16:29 dalek tracwiki: v13 | coke++ | BuildWarnings
16:29 dalek tracwiki: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/wiki/Bui​ldWarnings?version=13&amp;action=diff
16:41 Coke aloha, karma Coke
16:41 aloha Coke: Coke has karma of 21.
16:41 Coke aloha, karma coke
16:41 aloha Coke: coke has karma of 21.
16:44 atrodo That's either a really good coincidence or a really smart aloha
16:48 whiteknight I think aloha does everything lower-case
16:48 whiteknight It definitely hasn't been updated with all the karma from the purl days however
16:56 plobsing joined #parrot
16:56 dalek parrot: 60c49d4 | Whiteknight++ | DEPRECATED.pod:
16:56 dalek parrot: add note to DEPRECATED.pod about #1800
16:56 dalek parrot: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/60c49d4344
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17:00 fperrad_ is now known as fperrad
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17:09 NotFound whiteknight: ping
17:20 cotto ~~
17:25 whiteknight pong
17:26 NotFound whiteknight: about find_codepoint, we should now move it from experimental.ops to string.ops, isn't it?
17:26 whiteknight NotFound: yes. You want to do that?
17:26 NotFound Yes, I'm testeing now.
17:26 whiteknight awesome
17:36 dukeleto Is it just me, or has Parrot development sped up quite a bit in the last week?
17:36 * dukeleto can barely keep up
17:38 NotFound dukeleto: about myself, I was a bit inactive in previous weeks, and also getting used to git. Now I'm a bit better.
17:40 dukeleto NotFound: great to hear that git it not holding you back. Let me know if you have any questions, or suggestions to improve the Git docs.
17:41 NotFound dukeleto: you can add "Plase don't delete our repos" X-)
17:42 whiteknight NotFound: 1) See "Delete" button. 2) Don't push it. 3) Repeat.
17:42 dukeleto NotFound: ;)
17:44 NotFound whiteknight: that reminds me the joke: Programmer dead in the shower. The shampoo said: "wash, rinse, repeat"
17:46 whiteknight :)
17:46 dalek parrot: 3cfeb72 | NotFound++ | / (7 files):
17:46 dalek parrot: move find_codepoint from experimental.ops to string.ops TT #1629
17:46 dalek parrot: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/3cfeb72496
17:51 dalek TT #1871 created by moritz++: Rakudo randomly segfaults (probably GC related)
17:51 dalek TT #1871: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/ticket/1871
18:06 cotto_work ~~
18:16 cotto_work coke++ for taking care of the pirc leftovers]
18:17 dukeleto yay, random segfaults!
18:21 whiteknight I wouldn't have it any other way
18:22 whiteknight pirc sure got shuffled out quickly. Has anybody talked to kjs lately?
18:22 whiteknight He should definitely receive an email, if he hasn't already
18:26 Coke git branch -a | ack pirc
18:26 Coke my branch there can be removed.
18:28 whiteknight Coke: done
18:29 Coke is there a way to get the equivalent of svn's --stop-on-copy?
18:30 Coke (a google for that is less than helpful)
18:33 Coke googling for "git log stop-on-copy" is more helpful.
18:35 plobsing left #parrot
18:43 whiteknight Coke: git log --no-merge?
18:45 cotto_work whiteknight: emailing kj is a good idea.  emailing him before removing it might have been a better one.
18:46 darbelo aloha: seen kj
18:46 aloha darbelo: kj was last seen in #parrot 25 days 5 hours ago joining the channel.
18:47 Util Coke: 1. The "Browse Source" section of Trac should support it, when it start working again.
18:47 Util 2. From http://versioncontrol.wikia.co​m/wiki/List_history_on_branch :
18:48 Util "If you had the foresight to tag the start of your branch, say with <branch>-start, you're in luck:  git-log <branch>-start..
18:48 Util If you don't have a <branch>-start tag, I'm stumped."
18:48 Util 3. http://www.spinics.net/lists/git/msg101285.html has an excellent explanation of "--stop-on-copy" semi-equivalence
18:48 Util END_VAGUENESS
18:50 dngor left #parrot
18:50 whiteknight Coke: I have some other ideas too, what exactly are you wanting to see?
18:50 cotto_work any volunteers to mail kj?
18:51 whiteknight I'm doing it right now
18:51 cotto_work whiteknight: thanks
18:54 Util From msg101311 : In general, you can't say "My branch starts _here_" unless you use the root commit(s) as the starting point, or you apply "extra" knowledge (you know from which other branch this branch forked).
18:56 dukeleto Yes, which you can get at programmatically with "git merge-base"
18:56 * dukeleto drops some git knowledge bombs
18:56 whiteknight BAM!
18:56 cotto_work boom
18:56 dukeleto Run "git help merge-base" for some amazing ASCII art. Not kidding.
18:58 dngor joined #parrot
19:01 dukeleto whiteknight: i am changing some of your tasks to ask for "SVG" instead of "a vector graphics format". Many students are getting confused by that.
19:01 whiteknight okay, gotcha
19:01 whiteknight I think I only requested one logo task
19:09 whiteknight cotto_work: what's the story with the opmap_aware_pmcs branch?
19:09 dukeleto whiteknight: i like your tasks. Keep 'em comin'
19:10 dukeleto whiteknight: i am approving a bunch now
19:10 whiteknight yay! I'm being helpful
19:10 cotto_work whiteknight: bacek says it's using the wrong approach.  I partially understand what he's saying but I need to figure out exactly what he means and what approach he's suggesting.
19:10 cotto_work atm it's stuck in debugging.  it may or may not be worth fixing.
19:11 whiteknight okay.
19:11 whiteknight I'm just digging through this network graph looking for some old straggling branch heads
19:12 whiteknight what do you need to know in order to determine whether it's worth fixing?
19:13 cotto_work whiteknight: I need draft a plan and go back and forth with bacek a bit
19:14 cotto_work aloha: clock?
19:14 aloha cotto_work: cotto_work: LAX: Wed, 11:14 PST / CHI: Wed, 13:14 CST / NYC: Wed, 14:14 EST / UTC: Wed, 19:14 UTC / LON: Wed, 19:14 GMT / BER: Wed, 20:14 CET / TOK: Thu, 04:14 JST / SYD: Thu, 06:14 EST
19:14 whiteknight okay. I don't want to rush you, I'm just trying to make sure we don't forget important branches from our huge collection of them
19:15 cotto_work There's no risk of that branch being forgotten.  We can't get PIRATE back to working without it (or something like it).
19:17 whiteknight ah, gotcha. Is that branch the only outstanding requirement before PIRATE can move ahead?
19:17 cotto_work no.  PIRATE also needs gsoc_past_optimizations
19:18 whiteknight okay then
19:18 whiteknight the dominos are falling like a house of cards. Checkmate!
19:19 whiteknight I may try to update gsoc_instrument to HEAD
19:19 dukeleto whiteknight: i think bacek already did that
19:19 dukeleto whiteknight: as of a day or two ago
19:21 darbelo gsoc_past_optimizations is a remnant. The code moved to it's own repo on github.
19:21 darbelo The version in parrot's repo is stale.
19:21 Coke whiteknight: I'm wanting to see exactly what --stop-on-copy on a branch would have shown me: commits that were made to that branch since the branch point.
19:22 whiteknight Coke: the branch on your local machine, or the branch on github?
19:22 whiteknight darbelo: I was told the exact opposite: the code on github was never made to work, and that I should use the branch from svn to work on it
19:23 Coke whiteknight: "does it matter" ?
19:23 whiteknight oh wait, wrong repo. I am talking about gsoc_instrument, not gsoc_past_optimizations
19:23 whiteknight Coke: yes. One command includes "origin" in it, the other command doesn't
19:23 Coke ... isn't that just part of the name of the branch?
19:24 whiteknight Coke: git log --name-status master..<CURRENT BRANCH NAME>
19:24 whiteknight shows you all commits in the specified branch but not yet in master
19:25 Coke whiteknight++!
19:25 darbelo whiteknight: the code on github is newer. tcurtiss mentioned a bug that never got fixed there, but the code in svn is older.
19:26 whiteknight Coke: actually the --name-status option isn't needed
19:27 whiteknight the --name-status gives you svn-like status codes
19:28 * Coke congratulates dukeleto on his TPF grant.\
19:28 cotto_work dukeleto got $$?  Nice.
19:29 Coke not until he finishes the work, no. ;)
19:29 tadzik http://paste.perldancer.org/1JnW1c7qSp7zK -- any ideas on this?
19:30 whiteknight Coke: link to the grant?
19:30 dukeleto Coke: got a link?
19:31 Coke http://news.perlfoundation.org/2​010/11/2010q4-grant-results.html
19:31 whiteknight tadzik: weird. Where is that? master? HEAD?
19:31 Coke (is the congrats. has link to actual grant posting)
19:32 tadzik whiteknight: what Rakudo uses
19:32 nwellnhof joined #parrot
19:32 tadzik oh wait, now it works
19:32 whiteknight hmm
19:32 tadzik after some realclean
19:32 dukeleto Coke: whoa, i didn't even know that that grant was still being considered. I forgot that they auto-renew them
19:32 tadzik not funny that it's not the first time I see it
19:32 Coke surprise!
19:33 whiteknight dukeleto: kind of funny considering I'm completely rewriting all the embedding stuff
19:33 dukeleto whiteknight: yeah, quite funny.
19:33 whiteknight I've got an idea: howabout I do a bunch of work, and you get all the money? :)
19:33 Coke dukeleto: I did make a comment when I voted that Hoped you still had tuits for it. Apologies, I assumed that you had seen the posting.
19:33 dukeleto whiteknight: seriously, that grant was written and submitted long before you started hacking on this.
19:34 dukeleto whiteknight: we can work something out, I am sure.
19:34 whiteknight dukeleto: Oh, I know. I'm just playing. I don't care about money
19:34 whiteknight (don't tell my wife I said that)
19:34 dukeleto whiteknight: i can change my proposal so that it is in line with what you are doing
19:35 dukeleto whiteknight: adding tests won't change because of your work, but the docs part of it will need to be modified
19:35 whiteknight dukeleto: if you can tackle the extend stuff (which is, IMO, a bigger project), that should be plenty
19:35 whiteknight there's a reason why I'm doing embedding stuff first and saving extending stuff till later
19:36 Coke It's a little late to change the proposal. ;)
19:37 Coke Once a grant manager is assigned you can chat with them about plans.
19:39 dukeleto Coke: i think the grant can be salvaged in it's current state, but it might need some tweaks, which, from what I understand, is allowed.
19:40 whiteknight dukeleto: are you even going to have the tuits to do what the grant needs to you to? You're a pretty busy guy
19:40 whiteknight less busy now that the git migration is done, but still very much in demand
19:41 dukeleto whiteknight: good question. The grant is about increasing test coverage mostly. I know I can do that. The part of the grant about documentation needs to be tweaked.
19:43 dukeleto whiteknight: The first inch-stone will be updating docs/embed.pod to contain the "Lexicals", "Type Signatures" and "Constants" sections. This should take one to two weeks.
19:43 dukeleto whiteknight: is that still relevant after you merge your embed_api changes?
19:43 dukeleto Now that the git migration is over, I can do a lot more and I am more efficient at doing it.
19:44 whiteknight the first stage of the new embed API will be very slim. There are only enough functions right now to do exactly what our in-repo utilities need to function
19:44 whiteknight parrot.exe, pbc_to_exe, pbc_merge, pbc_disassemble, etc
19:44 whiteknight That work is almost complete and could be ready for serious review as early as this weekend if I bust my hump a little
19:45 dukeleto whiteknight: but will the docs in docs/embed.pod be totally worthless or are they still relevant/close ?
19:45 whiteknight dukeleto: I have no idea, I haven't looked at them at all
19:46 dukeleto whiteknight: you are changing internals. Does the user-facing part of the embed API change much?
19:46 whiteknight dukeleto: I am only changing the user-facing parts
19:46 whiteknight I'm not modifying internals at all
19:46 whiteknight I'm adding a new API "layer" of functions to wrap existing functionality with improved error handling and stuff
19:48 dukeleto whiteknight: ok. then my grant-related docs changing is still relevant. cool.
19:48 nwellnhof bacek, ping
19:50 whiteknight nwellnhof: what is the status of the string_checks branch?
19:51 nwellnhof whiteknight, I consider it mergeable but I think it didn't get any testing.
19:51 nwellnhof I fixed the change that broke Rakudo's IO::Socket.
19:52 whiteknight nwellnhof: if testing is all it needs, I can run some tests right now for you
19:52 dukeleto nwellnhof: what change was that?
19:53 nwellnhof dukeleto, I originally changed the 'recv' method of the Socket PMC to return binary strings instead of ASCII.
19:53 nwellnhof It's the right thing to do, but Rakudo depends on the wrong behavior.
19:54 dukeleto nwellnhof: i have been adding many tests to Socket and SockAddr PMCs. Did you add any tests for that?
19:54 * Coke needs a parrot-threat-level.
19:54 whiteknight Coke: Orange
19:55 nwellnhof dukeleot, tests for what exactly?
19:55 dukeleto nwellnhof: some of my tests are still in the tt1798_ipv6 branch, if you need an example
19:55 dukeleto nwellnhof: tests that Socket does what you think it does
19:55 Coke whiteknight: mmm. that's probably the level I would have picked. if I can get all my partcl issues resolved, it'll drop down to yellow.
19:56 whiteknight when the level gets to red, we have to do full-body pat-downs before entering #parrotsketch, for safety
19:57 nwellnhof dukeleto: The string_checks branch doesn't really add any new features, so I don't know what Socket tests I could add. I added a lot of Unicode tests, though.
19:58 whiteknight nwellnhof: smoke report coming soon
19:58 whiteknight anything else in particular you want to see tested?
19:58 nwellnhof whiteknight, "without ICU" is pretty important.
19:59 whiteknight I don't think I have ICU on this machine
19:59 nwellnhof nevermind then
20:01 * dukeleto votes for a +1 to Parrot Threat Level "Plaid"
20:03 whiteknight slightly less harrowing than Parrot Threat Level "Tartan"
20:04 whiteknight but much more severe than Parrot Threat Level "Polkadots"
20:13 whiteknight nwellnhof: http://smolder.parrot.org/app​/projects/report_details/1307 Result: FAIL
20:14 whiteknight dukeleto: the prepare_2_10_0 branch, it looks merged. Can we delete it from github?
20:18 moritz it can
20:21 whiteknight BALEETED
20:22 moritz whiteknight++
20:22 nwellnhof whiteknight, thanks for the smoke report.
20:23 dukeleto nwellnhof: tests are for when existing features/bugs change, not just new features. Thanks for the unicode tests, though!
20:23 whiteknight tests are for everything, all the time
20:29 nwellnhof dukeleto: Most of the time I don't change existing features, and for many of my bug fixes I'd need tests written in C.
20:30 whiteknight yay! another student forked parrot and has a commit in the works
20:30 dukeleto nwellnhof: Tests in C are very valuable.
20:30 whiteknight this GCI thing is making me very very happy
20:30 dukeleto nwellnhof: there are many examples that you can just copy and tweak
20:31 dukeleto whiteknight: glad to hear it. It seems to be getting young smart people hacking on Parrot, and that is pretty cool.
20:31 * dukeleto feels all warm and fuzzy
20:31 whiteknight yes, watching people we have never heard of before forking parrot and preparing patches out of nowhere is awesoem
20:31 whiteknight AND awesome
20:32 cotto_work whiteknight: It's pretty great.
20:32 whiteknight and this program lasts for a few months, I think
20:33 NotFound Looks like the move to github is being helpful, too.
20:34 whiteknight yes, it is enabling this kind of workflow
20:36 whiteknight At the end of this summer, we might be able to close that damned #443 task
20:36 whiteknight and let us never speak of it again
20:36 NotFound "this"?
20:37 hudnix left #parrot
20:37 NotFound Are you in the southern hemisphere? ;)
20:39 cotto_work whiteknight: do you have a list of the functions that need to be renamed for #443?
20:39 Coke cotto_work: all of them! HAHAHAHAHAH
20:40 cotto_work Coke, good idea.  I'll start a branch.  They'll all be renamed in the form "Parot_<function name>_<subsystem>".
20:42 whiteknight cotto_work: I compiled a list of files yesterday, and turned every single file in the list into a GCI task
20:42 whiteknight 1 was merged this morning. One is in the works now
20:42 whiteknight and it's Parrot_<subsystem>_<functioname>
20:42 cotto_work I'm just concerned about knowing when we can close the ticket.
20:43 whiteknight WE CLOSE IT WHEN I SAY WE CLOSE IT
20:43 whiteknight Nah, when GCI is over we look over the list of files not converted and see what to do then
20:44 whiteknight I suspect all the low-hanging fruit will be picked by that point
20:44 cotto_work ok.  melange should at least tell us what did and didn't get done.
20:44 whiteknight yeah, I hope so
20:44 whiteknight Maybe I'll copy the list to someplace else
20:44 dalek parrot/string_checks: 1e06c9f | nwellnhof++ | src/string/encoding/shared.c:
20:44 dalek parrot/string_checks: [str] Fix assertion in Unicode chr
20:44 dalek parrot/string_checks: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/1e06c9fd93
20:45 nwellnhof whiteknight++
20:48 whiteknight I added the list to the ticket itself
20:49 nwellnhof whiteknight: Can you test string_checks with the latest commit?
20:50 whiteknight will do. Building and testing now
20:52 NotFound make cover isn't working well, it doesn't report a lot of files.
20:56 whiteknight nwellnhof: http://smolder.parrot.org/app​/projects/report_details/1309 all tests pass
20:56 whiteknight nwellnhof: ++
20:56 whiteknight nwellnhof++
20:58 hudnix joined #parrot
21:04 NotFound "Current convention is to create branch names of the form username/foo" I don't see any branch that follows that convention.
21:04 whiteknight yeah, that's sort of a lie
21:04 whiteknight and by "sort of", I mean it's a lie
21:05 nwellnhof most of the branches are still from SVN
21:08 GeJ Bonjour everyone.
21:08 whiteknight hello GeJ
21:10 GeJ Heya whiteknight. How's life treating you these days?
21:10 whiteknight GeJ: Things are going well. I'm trying to stay busy and succeeding
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21:25 dukeleto NotFound: yeah, i wanted that to be the case, but it didn't happen
21:26 dukeleto NotFound: you can change that to be: "of the form ttXXXX_foo" where XXXX is the TT, if one exists.
21:26 dukeleto NotFound: "otherwise, pick a branch name that will be meaningful to others"
21:26 lucian left #parrot
21:26 NotFound dukeleto: I dislike to document conventions that no one is going to follow.
21:27 NotFound That last one is sensible ;)
21:27 lucian joined #parrot
21:27 whiteknight left #parrot
21:28 dukeleto NotFound: I have been following the ttXXXX_foo convention, and so does kid51
21:28 dukeleto NotFound: people can immediately see which ticket a branch pertains to, and i think that is useful
21:28 dukeleto NotFound: it is optional, not mandatory
21:28 NotFound Fine, then.
21:29 cotto_work If I work on a branch for a ticket, I use that convention.
21:29 dalek parrot/string_checks: 741efbd | nwellnhof++ | src/string/encoding/utf16.c:
21:29 dalek parrot/string_checks: [str] Add missing ASSERT_ARGS
21:29 dalek parrot/string_checks: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/741efbd068
21:29 dalek parrot/string_checks: 319feed | nwellnhof++ | src/string/encoding/u (3 files):
21:29 dalek parrot/string_checks: [str] Fix exception types in string scan functions
21:29 dalek parrot/string_checks: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/319feed504
21:30 cotto_work It's hard to make something like that mandatory.
21:35 perlite_ joined #parrot
21:37 dukeleto The wording "Current convention" should be changed to "It is recommended but not mandatory"
21:38 NotFound The "but not mandatory" is just noise.
21:38 dukeleto NotFound: +1
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21:39 perlite_ is now known as perlite
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21:58 dalek parrot/mappedbytearray: e006c1d | NotFound++ | / (2 files):
21:58 dalek parrot/mappedbytearray: skeleton initial implementation
21:58 dalek parrot/mappedbytearray: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/e006c1de31
22:01 cotto_work should that be "bytemapped" ?
22:02 NotFound Naming is open to discussion. I followed the pattern of xxxxyyyyyArray PMC as a start.
22:04 dalek parrot/mappedbytearray: b585195 | NotFound++ | src/pmc/mappedbytearray.pmc:
22:04 dalek parrot/mappedbytearray: a few checks for mmap availability
22:04 dalek parrot/mappedbytearray: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/b585195856
22:05 NotFound Maybe this branch should be kept private for a now, but it helps me familiarizing with git branching.
22:08 dukeleto NotFound: i think it is good for you to familiarize yourself with git branching.
22:09 NotFound Is bad to have a metacommiter not used to git, but that wasn't my decision ;)
22:28 Andy left #parrot
22:31 dukeleto aloha: coverage?
22:31 aloha dukeleto: coverage is http://cv.perl6.cz or http://tapir2.ro.vutbr.cz/cover/cover-results/
22:31 Andy joined #parrot
23:10 dalek parrot/mappedbytearray: b999b3b | NotFound++ | src/pmc/mappedbytearray.pmc:
23:10 dalek parrot/mappedbytearray: implmented minimal functionality, read only, linux only
23:10 dalek parrot/mappedbytearray: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/b999b3b38b
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