Camelia, the Perl 6 bug

IRC log for #parrot, 2010-11-29

Parrot | source cross referenced

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:02 fbrito (or a task to create more unit tests)
00:10 fbrito1 joined #parrot
00:14 fbrito left #parrot
00:14 whiteknight bluescreen: pong
00:14 bluescreen hey... good evening
00:15 bluescreen I'm setting up a Gist to track embed_api's TODO list
00:16 bluescreen so far this is what I've got https://gist.github.com/719422
00:17 bluescreen we would need some cleanup phase
00:19 theory joined #parrot
00:20 whiteknight bluescreen++
00:20 whiteknight dukeleto: you can comment on that pull request too
00:20 bluescreen i had to do a nasty debug print since the test case rely on that
00:20 whiteknight urg
00:21 bluescreen "*** Parrot VM: slow core ***", hate doing that
00:21 bluescreen so at some point we need to sit down and define what kind of debug information we would put in the api
00:22 bluescreen if what I'm testing is OK, we will have only one failing test case
00:22 bluescreen the profiling one
00:23 bluescreen BTW IMCC_warnings ommits warnings when you add the "-w" switch and prints them we you remove that switch
00:24 whiteknight wtf?
00:24 whiteknight stupid IMCC
00:24 bluescreen yeah...
00:24 bluescreen try this... create some junky pir and run ./parrot -w /tmp/junk.pir
00:24 bluescreen and without -w
00:25 whiteknight ok
00:25 bluescreen or read compilers/imcc/debug.c: IMCC_warnings
00:25 bluescreen i was like.... WTF++
00:25 whiteknight yeah
00:26 bluescreen I've talked to plobsing about it, he told me to leave it like that
00:28 bluescreen can you take a look at the t/profiling/profiling.t test case ?
00:28 whiteknight i might be able to
00:28 bluescreen I've no clue what's going on there
00:28 bluescreen thats the only test case failing at this point
00:29 bluescreen i think the problem is with ProfTest.pbc
00:29 bluescreen either is not able to read it or its compiled for another version of libparrot.so
00:29 whiteknight ok
00:30 whiteknight src/exceptions.c:die_from_exception() is printing the error and backtrace info out to stderr
00:30 whiteknight we need to take out that behavior and move it into the API
00:31 bluescreen yeah
00:31 bluescreen let me write that down into the TODO
00:32 bluescreen also imcc/main.c has a nice fprintf(STDERR,...) in it
00:32 whiteknight the embedding application should be in charge of where/how to display error information, not libparrot
00:33 bluescreen new funct?
00:34 bluescreen I don't think we would make it for 2.11
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00:44 whiteknight stupid IMCC
00:44 bluescreen PARROT_PROFILING_NAME=/tmp/test.pprof ./parrot --hash-seed=1234 --runcore profiling /tmp/test.pir
00:44 bluescreen that is what is causing the last test case fail
00:44 bluescreen --hash-seed=1234 is making parrot.exe blow
00:45 whiteknight that's in the profiling test?
00:46 bluescreen yes
00:46 bluescreen PIRProfile.nqp:84
00:47 bluescreen I've removed the hash-seed option and it passes 7 out of 13 test cases
00:52 whiteknight damnit. That must be the only test that covers the --hash-seed option
00:54 bluescreen for some reason is failing in  void * const ptr = malloc(size); // where size is 4096
00:55 whiteknight ...
00:56 bluescreen parrot: malloc.c:3097: sYSMALLOc: Assertion
00:57 whiteknight sounds like a mem corruption thing\
01:00 bluescreen do you know how to use valgrind?
01:01 whiteknight I've used it a few times. Probably need a refresher
01:02 bluescreen haven't used in my life...
01:09 whiteknight ah, so you can't teach it to me :)
01:10 bluescreen nop.. sorry just run it... I feel like reading the matrix :)
01:11 fbrito1 i used valgrind once (cachegrind for benchmarking)
01:12 fbrito1 with c++
01:13 fbrito1 all I can remember is that there is a tool called "kcachegrind" that generates beautiful graphs of called functions
01:14 fbrito1 and that cachegrind warns you if you forget to free something
01:15 whiteknight yeah, that's what I've done with it. Generated a profile and used kcachegrind to view it
01:19 whiteknight I'm trying to figure out why all the test snippets are trying to create "Interger" objects
01:20 bluescreen i think i go it
01:20 bluescreen main.c:  initargs->hash_seed = strtoul(arg, NULL, 16);
01:21 bluescreen while api.h:    Parrot_Int hash_seed
01:22 whiteknight so hash_seed should be an unsigned long instead of a Parrot_Int?
01:22 bluescreen in interpreter.h is an UINTVAL
01:22 whiteknight testing now
01:24 bluescreen atoi?
01:32 bluescreen whiteknight: it think changing hash_seed in parrot/api.h will do the trick
01:32 bluescreen valgrind helped in some way
01:38 whiteknight I changed it to unsigned long, not fixed
01:40 bluescreen UINTVAL is already long i guess
01:42 bluescreen ok... time to go. I'll leave that commit to you my friend :)
01:44 whiteknight ok
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01:51 shockwave ping @whiteknight
01:51 whiteknight pong
01:51 whiteknight how are you shockwave? I wasn't expecting you till next week
01:52 Coke I am bemused that the cross platform "cmake" is failing to build on my os x box.
01:52 shockwave Yep. I was just dropping by casually.
01:52 whiteknight shockwave: oh, okay.
01:52 shockwave I was just curious if the API stuff was going smoothly?
01:52 whiteknight the embedding API work is going very well and is almost 100%. We're still failing some tests with the profiler, but that's a small issue
01:53 shockwave awesome
01:53 shockwave So you feel that by next Monday it should be in a usable state?
01:53 whiteknight easily
01:54 shockwave That's great!
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01:58 whiteknight yeah, I'm excited about it
01:59 whiteknight cotto: ping
01:59 shockwave Cool. I'll drop by next Sunday. Maybe we can talk about the change that were made a bit, and then on monday I can start the embedding process.
02:00 whiteknight that will be awesome
02:00 whiteknight Sunday evening there is a big meeting of Parrot devs
02:01 whiteknight so I will definitely be online for that
02:01 whiteknight and before, most likely
02:01 shockwave About what time?
02:01 shockwave 6ish?
02:02 whiteknight I think 8PM EST is the meeting
02:02 whiteknight that won't affect our meeting
02:03 shockwave Cool. Do you mind if I log on a little before that. If you're online, maybe we can talk then?
02:03 shockwave Or afterwards, if you preffer.
02:04 shockwave I mean, I'll probably eaves drop on the Parrot meeting. I was refer to the API talk.
02:06 shockwave Ok. g2g. See you, guys.
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02:40 sorear What was the valgrind option to display executed instruction counts again?
02:40 bluescreen joined #parrot
02:41 bluescreen whiteknight: I just push a commit to fix the profiling test... all test pass now
02:42 dukeleto sorear: --dump-instr=yes ?
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02:45 dalek parrot/tt532_headerizer_refactor: c998b1e | jkeenan++ | / (5 files):
02:45 dalek parrot/tt532_headerizer_refactor: To demonstrate all execution paths, encapsulate some code within
02:45 dalek parrot/tt532_headerizer_refactor: Parrot::Headerizer::Object methods into subroutines, move the subs into
02:45 dalek parrot/tt532_headerizer_refactor: Parrot::Headerizer::Functions and add tests for them.
02:45 dalek parrot/tt532_headerizer_refactor: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/c998b1e57c
02:48 whiteknight bluescreen++ I'll check it out tomorrow
02:48 whiteknight bed time now
02:50 sorear dukeleto: thanks
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03:04 dalek parrot/tt532_headerizer_refactor: 2aa5bc9 | jkeenan++ | / (2 files):
03:04 dalek parrot/tt532_headerizer_refactor: Add tests for Parrot::Headerizer::Functions::shim_test().
03:04 dalek parrot/tt532_headerizer_refactor: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/2aa5bc9f14
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03:19 dalek parrot/leto/embed_grant: 2c941c4 | dukeleto++ | docs/embed.pod:
03:19 dalek parrot/leto/embed_grant: Add a 'nothing in, nothing out' type signature example
03:19 dalek parrot/leto/embed_grant: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/2c941c42bd
03:30 cotto ~~
03:30 dukeleto cotto: wazzup
03:30 cotto leftovers
03:31 cotto <3 leftovers
03:31 * cotto wonders what whiteknight was pinging him about
03:32 cotto I guess we'll never know.
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05:17 dukeleto nope.
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06:31 cotto msg whiteknight pong
06:31 aloha OK. I'll deliver the message.
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07:55 dalek parrot: 51cfb38 | jimmy++ | config/gen/makefiles/root.in:
07:55 dalek parrot: apply patch from TT #1865, it allows more windows environments with git to work correctly, ronaldws++
07:55 dalek parrot: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/51cfb3855e
07:55 dalek parrot: 6138a06 | jimmy++ | / (229 files):
07:55 dalek parrot: Merge branch 'master' of github.com:parrot/parrot
07:55 dalek parrot: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/6138a06f65
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08:11 dalek TT #1865 closed by jimmy++: Allow more windows environments with git to work correctly with build ...
08:11 dalek TT #1865: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/ticket/1865
08:20 moritz oh hai
08:21 moritz aloha: msg bacek that rakudo on parrot RELEASE_2_10_1-525-g8aa40c9 just had a clean spectest run - will retest to verify, but looks good so far. Thanks!
08:21 aloha moritz: OK. I'll deliver the message.
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08:44 dukeleto moritz: good to hear
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08:44 mj41_ is now known as mj41
08:45 dukeleto mj41: howdy
08:46 mj41 dukeleto: winter mood
08:46 dukeleto mj41: i know it well.
08:47 dukeleto mj41: how hard would it be to get TapTinder working with git?
08:47 dukeleto mj41: people miss the taptinder bot
08:48 mj41 dukeleto: I know. I have busy months in the work. But I'm back probably.
08:48 dukeleto mj41: if you can describe what needs to be done, others can help you
08:49 dukeleto mj41: wait! github has svn access!
08:49 dukeleto mj41: we just need to point taptinder at github svn mirror of parrot
08:50 mj41 dukeleto: I'm familiar with Git a bit now. So next step is to change DB schema and get repo-to-db script working for Git.
08:51 dukeleto mj41: it is a lot easy and a lot less work to point ttbot at the Github svn URL
08:52 mj41 dukeleto: Ok. Will look at it too as fast temporary solution.
08:52 dukeleto mj41: svn checkout http://svn.github.com/parrot/parrot.git
08:56 GeJ dukeleto: I just read that like a weird DC-Marvel crossover.
08:59 dukeleto GeJ: i know it looks crazy, but it actually works
09:29 bacek seen moritz
09:29 aloha moritz was last seen in #parrot 1 hours 7 mins ago saying "msg bacek that rakudo on parrot RELEASE_2_10_1-525-g8aa40c9 just had a clean spectest run - will retest to verify, but looks good so far. Thanks!".
09:30 bacek msg moritz, I suspect that I slowed down parrot at least by 10%. Can you compare performance?
09:30 aloha OK. I'll deliver the message.
09:32 dalek TT #1871 closed by moritz++: Rakudo randomly segfaults (probably GC related)
09:32 dalek TT #1871: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/ticket/1871
09:45 bacek aloha, (200-124)/200*100
09:45 aloha bacek: 38
09:46 bacek moritz, nm, looks like it's still about 35% faster on building core.pir in rakudo.
09:46 moritz \o/
09:54 bacek moritz, testing on different box is highly welcome :)
10:04 mikehh bacek: what are you testing on?
10:04 bacek mikehh, linux/ia32/2GB
10:08 mikehh bacek: 'k, I'm on that at the moment - Ubuntu 10.10 i386, but will switch to amd64 later
10:08 bacek mikehh, ok. I tested HEAD vs b23259670 (just before merge)
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10:21 lucian_ i've been reading http://trac.parrot.org/parr​ot/wiki/HLLInteroperability. it doesn't look up to date
10:27 fperrad msg bacek your fix in default.pmc saves lua. but there are still many segfault with the full test suite (./setup.pir test).
10:27 aloha OK. I'll deliver the message.
10:27 bacek fperrad, sigh...
10:30 bacek fperrad, can you add "+1" to http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/ticket/1875? I'm tired of "constant" pmcs.
10:35 Tene lucian_: No, it's not up to date.
10:36 lucian_ Tene: good, because it has some scary assumptions
10:39 Tene lucian_: as far as I'm aware, since I stopped pushing HLL stuff about a year ago, I haven't seen anyone else do anything at all on it.
10:39 Tene And, even then, I felt like I was the only person who cared about it.
10:39 Tene It would be great to have someone new pushing HLL interop. :)
10:39 lucian_ Tene: I'm still trying to figure out what's missing from calling ruby AND common lisp stuff from, say, python
10:40 lucian_ so far as I can tell, the basic PMCs assume you're using a mostly imperative language with single-dispatch OO bolted on
10:40 Tene lucian_: That's worked to at least some degree about three times in the past.
10:40 lucian_ if you deviate from that, you add to much for the PMCs to be useful for interop
10:40 lucian_ Tene: oh, and mutable data structures]
10:41 lucian_ if you try to implement haskell or clojure on parrot, using return values from them would be very, very hard
10:42 lucian_ Tene: this isn't fully clear to me, but so far I think in the first place, there should be both mutable and immutable versions for most (all?) data types
10:42 lucian_ that way, HLLs can more directly use PMCs
10:43 Tene lucian_: Sure.
10:43 lucian_ so a Python tuple would be an ImmutableBlahArray
10:44 lucian_ it could even specialise at creation, since it's immutable
10:44 lucian_ and afaik, there's no linked list implementations. that also seems like a basic thing HLLs might want
10:44 Tene Sure.
10:45 Tene The specific choice of PMCs to ship with Parrot isn't actually relevant to HLL interop, fwiw.
10:45 lucian_ Tene: how so? wouldn't thinner wrappers over PMCs help interop?
10:48 lucian_ Tene: in any case, HLL interop is a really hard problem
10:48 moritz a common basic MOP would help
10:48 lucian_ Tene: it sort of, almost works on CLR and JVM because everyone works around the Java/C# types
10:49 lucian_ moritz: but only to a point. what about languages where there are no objects?
10:49 Tene lucian_: It may be useful to interop, but you'll never have a strict subset of all languages fully implemented in core parrot.
10:50 moritz lucian_: all languages have objects, in some sense
10:50 Tene You're always going to end up having to play by the rules of the language you want to interoperate with.
10:50 Tene Languages are going to want to implement their own data structures outsied outside of Parrot core.
10:50 Tene etc.
10:50 lucian_ Tene: yeah, i know. but the common cases could be much easier
10:50 Tene It will *help* an dmake some tasks *easier*.
10:51 Tene It won't actually be a solution to any of the hll interop problems, though.
10:51 Tene As long as you're aware of that. :)
10:51 lucian_ moritz: it depends on the MOP
10:51 lucian_ Tene: i know it's not a solution, but it seems like a prerequisite to me
10:53 lucian_ moritz: can you design one that allows someone to call methods on a python object from common lisp + clos? and do so without losing too much efficiency in either language?
10:55 Tene lucian_: The issue is, you'll *need* to deal appropriately with cases that fall outside the boundaries anyway, so that's the more important problem, by far.  If you happen to also have a nice useful set of core PMCs, that's a bonus.
10:55 moritz lucian_: you can define a base meta class that contains stubs (or maybe default implementations) for the most common operations (add a method, add an attribute, call a method), and hav all languages inherit from that
10:56 lucian_ Tene: yes, of course, you need to deal with the myriad of other cases. but i don't think the problem is tractable in the first palce without the "bonus"
10:57 lucian_ moritz: so the equivalent for parrot's Integer for objects?
10:57 moritz lucian_: I don't understand that question
10:57 lucian_ moritz: i'm concerned about the extra indirection, which you'll pay for even when not using code in another HLL
10:57 Tene lucian_: There are no nontrivial cases, working with real languages, where only core PMCs will be involved, I assert.
10:57 Tene (sorry, intermittently afk
10:58 moritz lucian_: well, all languages can chose to work with parrot's integer registers, or chose not to
10:58 lucian_ moritz: if they choose not to, other HLLs can't use their ints
10:59 lucian_ but Integer is extra indirection and there's a cost to pay for it
10:59 moritz lucian_: unless they implement a common low-level API for numbers
10:59 lucian_ and my point was that the cost is payed in HLL code in that single language too, not just when calling into other HLLs
10:59 moritz well, if a language doesn't use native ints, it's already paying a price
11:00 Tene lucian_: realistically, this isn't a problem you're going to solve for users.  When you're a user working with two languages, it's up to you to choose how you want to handle it.  You can either pay the complexity cost when using foreign objects, or you can convert them into more-comfortable types, but neither of those are problems that have a general solution.
11:00 lucian_ moritz: exactly. but if ints are immutable in the language, you can use unboxed ints much of the time
11:00 Tene You are not going to convince me than an M to M type mapping registry, for example, is a sane solution.
11:00 lucian_ Tene: no, that's silly
11:01 lucian_ Tene: (m*m mapping)
11:02 Tene lucian_: in previous hll interop discussions, it was suggested more than once. :)
11:03 lucian_ Tene: oh. but it obviously doesn't scale
11:03 Tene lucian_: It was never discussed for *long*, no
11:03 lucian_ Tene: i see
11:05 Tene lucian_: Mostly, as far as I've been able to tell, Parrot interfering with inter-language objects is not a desirable behavior, and would cause more confusion than it would solve.
11:05 Tene If you're working in python and you run ruby code, you're getting  back a ruby object with ruby's methods, etc.  If you want to convert it into a similar python object, that's something you do explicitly.
11:06 lucian_ Tene: yes. you don't need to convince me of that "Explicit is better than implicit." - The Zen of Python
11:07 Tene There's also the issue of centralization.  Making everything go through Parrot is not a reasonable option, afaict.
11:08 Tene If a language wants to offer facilities for managing things like this, it can choose to ship a library that does so.
11:08 Tene import extraperlsupport
11:08 Tene or whatever
11:08 lucian_ hmm
11:08 lucian_ but then you end up with crappy default interop and M*M work needed for nice support
11:09 Tene I'm sorry, but I disagree.
11:09 Tene You end up with *sane* default interop.
11:09 Tene If you can think of examples to the contrary, I'd like to hear them.
11:10 Tene To be clear, I am *not* convinced that my conclusions here are obviously right.  I just haven't been able to find anything better yet, and nobody has really contradicted me.
11:10 lucian_ Tene: I can't think of a better way to deal with it, at least right now
11:10 Tene lucian_: I recommend that you work up some specific concrete examples.
11:11 lucian_ Tene: that would be helpful
11:11 Tene "I want to use Perl's DBI from Python.  What would that look like?"
11:11 lucian_ Tene: and I need to have it work from as different languages as possible
11:11 Tene "I run some ruby code from python that returns a number; how do I deal with that number object I get back?"
11:12 lucian_ Tene: yes, the examples are good. but they should be more general
11:12 Tene "I'm working in a functional language without OO support, but I'm using a library that returns objects I need to call methods on; how do I do that?"
11:12 lucian_ perl, ruby and python are quite similar
11:12 Tene lucian_: concrete and general examples are both important.
11:12 lucian_ Tene: true
11:12 Tene Trust me, there are things you can get wrong even between python and perl, etc.
11:13 lucian_ Tene: but yeah, by providing sane defaults, you can layer an awesome solution for solving the M*M niceness issue on top
11:13 lucian_ Tene: yeah, i know. but they're still much more similar between themselves than to, say, OCaml
11:14 Tene lucian_: I know.  I'd love to see what you come up with.
11:14 Tene Parrot HLL interop is very desirable to me, and I've spent a lot of time thinking abotu and working on it, and I'd love to see it succeed.
11:14 lucian_ Tene: don't get your hopes up, i'm probably the wrong person to do this
11:15 Tene lucian_: So am I, apparently. :)
11:15 lucian_ Tene: let's hope parrot likes double negatives, then :)
11:16 Tene lucian_: In the past, I've never seen any proposal involving converting things between langauges, or anything other than just passing foreign objects straight through, that didn't cause more problems than it solved.
11:16 lucian_ Tene: right
11:17 Tene So, I'm not sure what your "providing sane defaults" means here, then.
11:17 Tene I expect we're speaking too abstractly. :)
11:17 lucian_ Tene: probably
11:18 Tene I'm trying not to get too involved, as I hope to be able to go to bed any minute now.
11:18 lucian_ Tene: ok. sleep tight
11:18 Tene I'm up waiting for a third party to deal with a failure for work. ><
11:19 Tene 'night
11:20 Tene lucian_: If you do come up with something, please notify me here on IRC by name.
11:20 lucian_ Tene: will do
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12:01 lucian_ i find it weird that documentation everywhere refers to pynie as a serious/usable language :)
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13:54 whiteknight good morning, #parrot
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13:58 whiteknight msg cotto ping
13:58 aloha OK. I'll deliver the message.
13:58 * whiteknight doubts the efficacy of using aloha to send ping/pong messages
14:09 lucian whiteknight: aloha the bot or aloha the protocol?
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14:20 whiteknight lucian: both are equally inferior
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14:34 lucian Tene: still awake? https://gist.github.com/720017
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15:25 dalek winxed: r693 | NotFound++ | trunk/winxedst1.winxed:
15:25 dalek winxed: improve handling of typecast predefs in stage 1
15:25 dalek winxed: review: http://code.google.com/p/w​inxed/source/detail?r=693
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15:30 dalek tracwiki: v9 | whiteknight++ | StringsTasklist
15:30 dalek tracwiki: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/wiki/Str​ingsTasklist?version=9&amp;action=diff
15:41 dalek winxed: r694 | NotFound++ | trunk/winxedst1.winxed:
15:41 dalek winxed: rename checkResult methods in stage 1 to checkresult for consistency
15:41 dalek winxed: review: http://code.google.com/p/w​inxed/source/detail?r=694
15:50 whiteknight msg dukeleto: There are several suggested tasks which I think can be approved/opened so the students can get their hands on them. Our list of open, unclaimed tasks is dwindling. I'm going to try to add at least 5-10 new tasks today (I've already added 2)
15:50 aloha OK. I'll deliver the message.
15:51 Coke I had a patch that could use some eyes slash be applied.
15:51 whiteknight Coke: sure. ticket?
15:52 Coke http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/ticket/1716
15:52 Coke aloha, msg moritz ad a patch that could use some eyes slash be applied.
15:52 Coke 10:51 <@whiteknight> Coke: sure. ticket?
15:52 aloha Coke: OK. I'll deliver the message.
15:52 Coke whoops.
15:53 whiteknight :)
15:53 Coke aloha, msg moritz  http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/ticket/1716 was yours, does the patch work for you?
15:53 aloha Coke: OK. I'll deliver the message.
15:56 moritz uhm, how do I actually download that patch?
15:56 Coke you want the raw patch? http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/raw-attachment/tic​ket/1716/0001-Allow-spaces-in-install-dir.patch
15:56 Coke (bottom of the trac patch screen says "... original format")
15:57 moritz ah, thanks
15:58 Coke it is hidden.
15:58 Coke how goes, moritz ?
15:59 Coke ... hey, is your name pronouned "eats" or "its" ?
16:00 theory joined #parrot
16:00 whiteknight that's a very good question
16:00 moritz "its"
16:00 dukeleto whiteknight: ok, sounds good. Will take a look in a few minutes.
16:00 moritz stress is on the o
16:01 Coke poor o.
16:01 whiteknight dukeleto: some of these students are a lot more qualified as coders than I originally thought. I'm comfortable putting together some tasks that require a little bit more know-how than I have been doing
16:01 * dukeleto puts on his lOllerskates
16:01 dukeleto whiteknight: yes, i agree
16:01 moritz Coke: the patch seems to work fine
16:01 whiteknight In fact, I think I can trick these students into implementing most of the IOTaskList on trac wiki :)
16:03 dukeleto whiteknight: works for me
16:04 fbrito joined #parrot
16:09 particle left #parrot
16:09 Coke moritz: just need someone to test it on windows, I think.
16:09 moritz indeed
16:10 Coke if taptinder comes back soon, can just apply it and hope. ;)
16:11 dukeleto I talked to mj41 last night and told him how to use SVN access on github, so hopefully it comes back soon.
16:11 dukeleto whiteknight: i just approved a bunch of tasks
16:11 dukeleto fbrito: new tasks! Take a look.
16:12 fbrito Yeah! I am going to take a look for sure.
16:13 * atrodo wishes he was back in school so he could participate
16:14 dalek winxed: r695 | NotFound++ | trunk/winxedst1.winxed:
16:14 dalek winxed: add a few internal checks
16:14 dalek winxed: review: http://code.google.com/p/w​inxed/source/detail?r=695
16:14 whiteknight atrodo: have children. Force them to become programmers. Code vicariously through them
16:14 fbrito hahahahah!
16:15 moritz s/Force/motivate/
16:15 atrodo whiteknight> Already working on it.  However, that has a 15+ year lead-time
16:15 whiteknight s/Force/motivate with a stick/
16:16 whiteknight atrodo: yeah, lazy kids don't grow very fast
16:16 atrodo seriously.
16:17 particle joined #parrot
16:19 dalek winxed: r696 | NotFound++ | trunk/pir/winxed_ (2 files):
16:19 dalek winxed: update installable files
16:19 dalek winxed: review: http://code.google.com/p/w​inxed/source/detail?r=696
16:19 dalek tracwiki: v17 | whiteknight++ | IOTasklist
16:19 dalek tracwiki: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/wiki/I​OTasklist?version=17&amp;action=diff
16:21 Coke I have a 13 year old who could be a better dev than I am, but he has other ideas.
16:21 fbrito Ok, I requested this task: http://www.google-melange.com/gci/task/show/goog​le/gci2010/parrot_perl_foundations/t129035423390
16:22 fbrito But now I have to lunch :S. Be right back
16:28 whiteknight fbrito: that should actually be a pretty easy one. Let me know if you need any help.
16:28 nwellnhof whiteknight: Thanks for pointing me to the IOTasklist document. I didn't know about it.
16:29 nwellnhof But I had a look at the IO code and came to similar conclusions.
16:29 whiteknight nwellnhof: Ha! It's actually on the front-page of trac, but that page has gotten so cluttered that nobody knows about things there
16:29 whiteknight Infinoid and myself had worked on it a few months ago, but he left and I moved to other things
16:30 dukeleto whiteknight: where did Infinoid go?
16:30 nwellnhof I once had a look at most of the items there, but somehow I must have missed the IO task list.
16:30 whiteknight He got busy with other things and hasn't been working much on Parrot
16:30 whiteknight he's still around. Was maintaining dalek for a while
16:30 whiteknight that IO system really needs a complete ground-up redesign
16:31 whiteknight because it's not really sane how sometimes PMC methods call the API routines, and sometimes the API routines call PMC methods
16:31 whiteknight sometimes both for the same API calls
16:33 whiteknight this situation improves when the open/close opcodes disappear
16:33 dmalcolm joined #parrot
16:33 whiteknight (have they been removed yet?)
16:36 dukeleto whiteknight: i think they have been deprecated, but not removed, but don't trust my memory
16:36 dukeleto whiteknight: are there any easy deprecation items that we can turn into tasks?
16:36 whiteknight blah. So we can't just do that now then
16:37 NotFound They are in dynops
16:37 whiteknight Okay, I'll look at that. That may make a good task too, to update them to suck less
16:37 dukeleto whiteknight: doing a deprecation is a good learning experience. You have to delete code, regen the manifests, update a wiki page and add something to NEWS
16:37 whiteknight dukeleto: yes, it is good
16:37 whiteknight let me take a gander
16:38 dukeleto whiteknight: it gets people seeing the whole process, instead of "i wrote a line of code, i am done"
16:38 NotFound dukeleto: update *two* wiki pages.
16:38 dukeleto NotFound: you are indeed correct
16:39 NotFound Not correct, but true ;)
16:42 NotFound whiteknight: you want to delete things? Take a look at TT #1682
16:43 whiteknight :)
16:43 hudnix left #parrot
16:44 Infinoid Oh hey, I remember the IO stuff
16:45 Infinoid Specifically, making sockets not suck
16:46 whiteknight Infinoid: you had a rough implementation of a new PipeHandle type at one point. Would you by chance have that still around anywhere?
16:46 whiteknight I would *love* to complete that particular part of the refactor
16:47 whiteknight I think I had a copy at one time, but my laptop got wiped
16:49 dukeleto Infinoid: i have been working on making sockets suck less by actually testing them
16:49 dukeleto Infinoid: i have a branch for IPv6 sockets, and I am adding many tests and finding bugs
16:50 whiteknight dukeleto: there was a time when sockets were much, much worse
16:50 whiteknight hell, only a few years ago there were no sockets
16:50 nwellnhof One of the problems with the IO code is that there's a lot of functionality in the FileHandle PMC that should be moved to the Handle base class.
16:50 whiteknight nwellnhof: exactly! I'm creating several GCI tasks so students can work on that
16:51 nwellnhof Especially buffering and handling of encodings.
16:51 Infinoid dukeleto++
16:51 whiteknight YES
16:51 Infinoid whiteknight: I can look.  I don't remember it being a particularly huge patch
16:51 whiteknight Infinoid: me either, but I would hate to have to reproduce any amount of good code
16:51 Infinoid If I don't have it, I can remember how it was set up.  One pipe container object (factory?), one pipe endpoint object
16:52 dukeleto Coke: how do we get different versions of various parrot.org pages rendered in different languages? We have the translated text, I am talking about how to actually tell Drupal about it
16:52 whiteknight right
16:52 whiteknight a Pipe (2-way) and a PipeHandle (1-way) are what I remember
16:52 Infinoid If I do have it, it's more than a year out of date with respect to parrot at this point
16:52 whiteknight the IO system hasn't changed at all in that time, really
16:52 whiteknight which is the big shame of it
16:52 dukeleto Infinoid: it could still be useful, even if it doesn't apply
16:53 whiteknight plus, we have to wait an entire deprecation cycle to move the pipe-like logic out of FileHandle
16:53 whiteknight so we have time to make anything work
16:54 Infinoid As it happens, I might have a few cycles to spend on this anyway :)
16:54 dukeleto ++Infinoid
16:54 dukeleto whiteknight: i just took a look at the Parrot+RTEMS logo. Looks a lot better than the nothing we have now.
16:54 whiteknight dukeleto: isn't it? I was very very impressed by that
16:55 whiteknight Infinoid++ Indeed! Having you back hacking would be a big boost, if you have the tuits for it
16:56 Infinoid I don't have the development tree any more, but it looks like I had checked it into the io_rewiring branch, way back when
16:56 Infinoid PipeHandle and Pipe were r39265 and r39266
16:57 * dukeleto likes the #perl6-ism of a prefix increment to encourage doing stuff, and a postfix increment for actually doing stuff
16:57 whiteknight ah, I may be able to dig those out then.
16:57 NotFound ++stuff
16:57 * whiteknight likes the parrot-ism of giving out lots of karma
16:58 whiteknight Infinoid: got them!
16:59 Infinoid Oh, cool
16:59 whiteknight cotto++ on the trac plugin to link svn revs to github diffs!
17:05 Infinoid dalek++ for generating irc logs so I could search for it
17:11 PacoLinux joined #parrot
17:19 cotto_work ~~
17:19 cotto_work whiteknight: reping
17:20 whiteknight cotto_work: whadup?
17:20 cotto_work you pinged me earlier
17:21 whiteknight cotto_work: because aloha said you pinged me earlier than that
17:24 cotto_work whiteknight: http://irclog.perlgeek.de/p​arrot/2010-11-29#i_3039366
17:24 whiteknight ha
17:24 whiteknight maybe we have nothing to talk about, just playing ping-tag
17:25 nwellnhof Question about the IO cleanup: If we move functionality from FileHandle to Handle, the code in Handle will need to call back into the subclasses. What's the best way to do that?
17:27 NotFound Call back? Why?
17:28 nwellnhof For example if we have a single buffering implementation in the Handle PMC, it would implement the read method and then only call the subclasses to fill the buffer.
17:31 NotFound I'm not sure I'd like that way.
17:31 whiteknight we should move the buffer into Handle
17:32 whiteknight and all types get a buffer
17:32 whiteknight child types call the instance in the parent type
17:33 fbrito I am having some problems in understanding my task (rename global_setup functions). Which functions (beside Parrot_set_config_hash_internal) should I rename?
17:35 hercynium_ joined #parrot
17:35 dukeleto fbrito: what is the link for your task?
17:36 fbrito http://www.google-melange.com/gci/task/show/goog​le/gci2010/parrot_perl_foundations/t129035423390
17:36 fbrito There are some functions auto-generated somewhere else. Should I also rename that? (ex: Parrot_initialize_core_pmcs)
17:40 dukeleto fbrito: config/gen/core_pmcs.pm is involved
17:40 dukeleto fbrito: you should ask whiteknight for clarification. I am not sure.
17:41 dukeleto fbrito: if you form your pull request as a few different commits, we can choose to use some commits and not others
17:41 dukeleto fbrito: that way, if one thing you do is wrong, we can still merge your branch
17:41 dukeleto fbrito: that is why it is good to make many small-ish commits instead a few huge commits
17:42 fbrito dukeleto: ah, ok, I will do that. thank you :D
17:45 nwellnhof whiteknight: yes, child types call the buffered read code in the parent type at some point. but that code has to call back into the child types if it has to refill the buffer.
17:53 whiteknight fbrito: let me look
17:53 fbrito https://github.com/fernando​brito/parrot/commits/master
17:55 whiteknight Parrot_set_config_hash_internal, Parrot_set_config_hash_interpreter, init_world_once, init_world, parrot_global_setup_2
17:55 whiteknight All of them need to be renamed so they start with "Parrot_gbl_"
17:56 whiteknight so Parrot_gbl_global_setup_2
17:56 whiteknight or, even Parrot_gbl_setup_2
17:56 whiteknight Parrot_gbl_set_config_hash_interpreter, etc
17:57 cotto_work Why not "Parrot_global_"...
17:57 dukeleto cotto_work: i agree.
17:57 dukeleto I don't like 'gbl' as a shortening of 'global'. Non-english speakers will be confused. gbl sounds like our turkey subsystem or something...
17:58 hercynium__ joined #parrot
17:58 dukeleto Parrot_global_setup_2, Parrot_global_init_world, etc...
17:58 NotFound WTF is 'global'?
17:59 dukeleto NotFound: stuff that changes global state
17:59 NotFound I see that functions as stuff only for internal usage. Be global or not is secondary.
18:00 whiteknight cotto_work: the standard we've been going by has been a 3 or 4 letter abbreviation
18:00 dukeleto NotFound: nope. Parrot_set_config_hash is needed by embedded projects
18:00 hercynium__ left #parrot
18:00 whiteknight there may be a better abbreviation than gbl, but once they are named by a standard it becomes trivial to do a mass find+replace later
18:00 cotto_work whiteknight: sure, but that doesn't mean we need to keep doing that if it makes for ugly function names.
18:00 fbrito gbl, glb, glbl or global?
18:01 * dukeleto votes a +1 on Parrot_global_*
18:01 whiteknight cotto_work: gs for "global setup"?
18:01 whiteknight Parrot_gs_?
18:01 cotto_work gl�bal
18:01 dukeleto That seems non-intuitive.
18:01 whiteknight I don't like Parrot_global because it breaks the standard. They will be the only ones not using a short acronym
18:01 dukeleto whiteknight: we have a standard?
18:02 dukeleto whiteknight: where is it written down? Or is it just convention?
18:02 NotFound init_world_once and the like should never be used by any one other than parrot internals.
18:02 NotFound Using the same prefix as public api functions is confusing.
18:02 whiteknight dukeleto: the original ticket is here: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/ticket/443
18:02 hercynium__ joined #parrot
18:02 whiteknight There are more docs for it. I will need to find them
18:03 whiteknight NotFound: the difference is the use of the PARROT_EXPORT
18:03 whiteknight NotFound: but those two functions *are* public from the point of view of the global_setup.c file
18:03 whiteknight that is, they are visible outside it, so need to be prefixed accordingly
18:03 hercynium_ left #parrot
18:03 whiteknight if they were static, that would be different
18:04 cotto_work whiteknight: there were some other gci tasks that resulted in some function names that were similarly ugly, iirc.
18:04 whiteknight fbrito: do Parrot_gbl for now, so we don't make you wait. We'll figure out what we want and update it after you are done
18:04 cotto_work whiteknight: wfm
18:04 dukeleto fbrito: what whiteknight said
18:04 whiteknight cotto_work: I'm sure. Again, we need to figure out what we want to change them to
18:04 NotFound whiteknight: PARROT_EXPORT is a mess, we need to diferentiate functions accesible from inside the library and from the outside world.
18:04 fbrito ok, thank you :D
18:05 whiteknight and once we have like functions with a unique prefix, it's an easy replace job
18:05 cotto_work there's no need to hold up a gci project
18:05 hercynium_ joined #parrot
18:05 dukeleto cotto_work++ # jfdi
18:05 whiteknight NotFound: that's a problem with PARROT_EXPORT, not a problem with the functions it decorates
18:05 whiteknight cotto_work: I do agree with you though, some of them have become a bit ugly. We should review them for aesthetics eventually
18:06 NotFound I fail to understand that logic.
18:06 nwellnhof I think it's basically a problem with headerizer. There should be a way to put headers of extern functions in different header files for internal and external use.
18:07 whiteknight NotFound: the function prefixes are used to show the subsystem where a function lives, not whether that function is exported
18:07 whiteknight PARROT_EXPORT and PARROT_API (in the embed_api branch) show whether a function is exported by the .so
18:08 dukeleto whiteknight: i like that
18:08 NotFound I can live with that, but I think that initializing the basics of the interpreter is not the same league as changing its state.
18:09 dukeleto NotFound: that also sounds about right. What about "Parrot_init_*" functions ?
18:09 hercynium__ left #parrot
18:10 NotFound Maybe kho, Keep Hands Out ;)
18:10 dukeleto NotFound: that is just asking for trouble...
18:11 NotFound Parrot_aft_ ?
18:12 NotFound Parrot_init_ will be fine for me.
18:16 Coke dukeleto: I have no idea how to do anything complicated with drupal.
18:17 dukeleto Coke: who does? Who in the parrot community knows the most about how parrot.org works?
18:18 hercynium_ left #parrot
18:19 hercynium_ joined #parrot
18:19 whiteknight Parrot_init_* works fine for me
18:20 Coke dukeleto: do you want to know about drupal, or do you want to know about parrot.org?
18:20 whiteknight we might want to move some files around though. src/global_setup.c could probably be moved into src/interp/
18:20 whiteknight src/interp/inter_create.c is very similar
18:21 whiteknight (and inter_create.c should be renamed. That name has always bugged me. Should be interp_create.c, or even create.c, since we're in the interp folder)
18:24 dukeleto Coke: i want to know how parrot.org uses Drupal and how we add internationalization to parrot.org pages via Drupal
18:24 cotto_work whiteknight: +1 to both Parrot_init_* and create.c (just don't spell it "creat")
18:24 Coke dukeleto: particle is probably an excellent person to talk to about parrot.org in general, as he's on the board & has had interaction with OSU as much as anyone else.
18:24 Coke dukeleto: SFAIK, www.parrot.org is just a braindead drupal instance.
18:24 dukeleto Coke: sadly, I have a lot more interaction with OSUOSL than particle these days
18:24 hercynium_ is now known as [hercynium]
18:24 Coke SFAIK, parrot community has no drupal experts.
18:25 dukeleto which is a sad state of affairs.
18:25 dukeleto Coke: do you know which version of drupal we are running?
18:25 Coke dukeleto: I presume that www.parrot.org could tell you. It's whatever OSUOSL gave us, SFAIK.
18:25 whiteknight cotto_work: don't worry. I wouldn't ever name anything "creat"
18:26 NotFound 'krt'
18:26 whiteknight NotFound: :)
18:26 NotFound And put it in src/sms/
18:27 * NotFound thinks about writing a PASM variant that looks like 8080 assembler.
18:27 whiteknight That would be fun
18:28 whiteknight Notfound: you know what I would really like to do someday? I would like to write an LALR parser generator in Winxed
18:28 whiteknight we could get some pretty fast parsers from it, and we would be able to build new compilers without using NQP
18:28 whiteknight I know some people, like the python people, have an aversion to things that are perlish
18:29 Coke dukeleto: there's a "drupal-5.9" directory on the VM, so that's my guess.
18:29 NotFound whiteknight: I'm also thinking about that, but I don't know enough about PCT grammars yet.
18:30 Coke dukeleto: ls /var/www/www.parrot.org
18:30 NotFound whiteknight: or do you mean to write them on another way?
18:30 Coke on parrotvm.osuosl.org
18:31 Coke dukeleto: I'm not sure anyone was particularly happy with drupal. It was just what we got after we switched from perl.org to parrot.org
18:32 davidfetter joined #parrot
18:34 cotto_work My dayjob is hacking on Drupal.
18:34 whiteknight NotFound: I'm thinking about a new grammar engine, not PCT
18:34 dukeleto Coke: i am not sure i have ssh access to that machine
18:34 whiteknight we could use the same algorithm as YACC
18:35 dukeleto Coke: do i have to give my pubkey to somebody to get access to that machine?
18:35 dukeleto Coke: do you know about i8n for drupal?
18:35 dukeleto cotto_work: ^^^
18:35 dukeleto Coke: mis-tab, mea culpa
18:35 NotFound whiteknight: it may be a nice gsoc.
18:36 cotto_work dukeleto: not atm though I could read up on it tonight.
18:37 dukeleto cotto_work: that would rock. I also asked OSUOSL about it.
18:37 whiteknight NotFound: yes, it would make a very nice GSoC for a student with some compiler design experience
18:37 Coke dukeleto: pubkey is for the ftp server. parrotvm is actual logins with your own account. (and if you want to setup a pubkey, go for it.)
18:38 Coke here's a list of homedirs on that box:
18:38 dukeleto Coke: "actual logins with your own account" meaning what?
18:38 Coke actown  allison  coke  cotto  jeff  jhorwitz  particle  rspier  russell_h
18:38 Coke dukeleto: as opposed to the ftp server where everyone logs in as "parrot"
18:38 * NotFound thinking about posting a job offer asking for at least 5 years of winxed experience.
18:39 Coke you don't seem to have an account. You should get one.
18:39 dukeleto Coke: and how do I go about that? ping OSUOSL ?
18:39 Coke NotFound: I have nearly 2 decades worth of experience in the winxed family of languages, does that count?
18:39 Coke dukeleto: yup.
18:40 Coke then you'll have access to the trac, drupal instances, doc site...
18:42 NotFound Coke: only if you apply for a unpaid job.
18:42 Coke I am already not making enough money, so nevermind. ;)
18:43 Coke +1 on reverting the change Lithos noted.
18:44 NotFound +1
18:44 cotto_work regexen gone wild
18:45 dalek tracwiki: v23 | whiteknight++ | BigProjectIdeas
18:45 dalek tracwiki: +LALR parser generator
18:45 dalek tracwiki: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/wiki/BigP​rojectIdeas?version=23&amp;action=diff
18:46 whiteknight GSOC next year should have some awesome projects
18:46 whiteknight they should do one every season: a winter of code, autumn of code, spring of code
18:48 NotFound An april fool's of code will be nice, too.
18:49 whiteknight NotFound: we only offer one project: Solve the halting problem using only Parrot
18:49 whiteknight Notfound: but we introduce a GC bug so the answer is always "yes"
18:51 * dukeleto just laughed pretty hard
18:52 dukeleto does Parrot have a security list?
18:53 dukeleto for people to send 0day exploits to so we can fix them?
18:53 cotto_work I remember bringing up the idea.
18:53 dukeleto cotto_work: let's make one. Nowishly.
18:53 cotto_work I don't have that kind of power.
18:53 NotFound I'd like it better if the answer were '42'
18:54 cotto_work but while you're talking to the right people, could you also set up a parrot-architecture list?
18:54 davidfetter mmm...sploitz
18:56 Coke parrot-architecture?
18:56 Coke is there some class of email discussion for which parrot-dev is not sufficient?
18:56 moritz parrot-dev is fairly low traffic these days, why do we need another list?
18:56 dukeleto cotto_work: how is that different than parrot-dev ?
18:56 * dukeleto agrees with moritz
18:56 moritz he, three people, one thought
18:56 fbrito why there is a function called parrot_global_setup_2 but no parrto_global_setup_1 or?
18:57 dukeleto fbrito: a dingo ate your function
18:57 whiteknight fbrito: global_setup_1 is generated, I think
18:57 cotto_work dukeleto: specific to the architecture team
18:58 fbrito ah, ok. and should I rename it to Parrot_gbl_setup_2? or Parrot_gbl_global_setup_2?
18:58 whiteknight fbrito: you are the developer! You can pick
18:58 whiteknight either works for me
18:59 PerlJam left #parrot
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18:59 fbrito ok then. i will pick Parrot_gbl_global_setup_2_Fernando_Brito_rocks()
18:59 whiteknight :)
18:59 tadzik ...who introduced the idea of April Fool's Code?
18:59 cotto_work tadzik: the original incarnation of Parrot was a joke combination of Perl and Python
19:00 tadzik yeah, I know that ;)
19:00 tadzik maybe it should have a function run_perl_or_python()
19:01 cotto_work Sure.  All we need is valid perl and python compilers
19:02 dukeleto tadzik: april fools stuff is very old. There are RFC's that are april fool's jokes as well
19:02 fbrito but if I am renaming parrot_global_setup_2 I should do the same with setup_1, but I can't find it :P
19:02 whiteknight apparently the python people are hung up on the object metamodel problems
19:02 whiteknight the ruby people might be too
19:02 dukeleto tadzik: people have been writing april fools code since at least the 70's and probably the 60's
19:02 cotto_work whiteknight: what do you mean?
19:02 dukeleto fbrito: do you know how to use 'ack'
19:02 dukeleto fbrito: if not, you should
19:02 dukeleto fbrito: betterthangrep.com
19:03 whiteknight cotto_work: From the people I have talked to, problems with the object system are a big impediment to getting pynie to work, and getting more python devs working on it
19:03 dukeleto fbrito: it will raise you to the next level :)
19:03 dukeleto whiteknight: i plan on helping chromatic with our metaobject protocol
19:03 whiteknight I know that Cardinal went dormant in part because of frustrations with the object system
19:03 whiteknight dukeleto: me too. It's very important
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19:17 fbrito ok. as soon as I finish running tests, I will rename the last function, run the tests again and make the pull request, so you can check what I have done
19:17 whiteknight fbrito++
19:17 PerlJam left #parrot
19:17 PerlJam joined #parrot
19:17 whiteknight fbrito: You're being very helpful and productive! Thanks for all the work
19:17 cotto_work whiteknight: are you referring to the Parrot versions of those languages?
19:17 fbrito the first time I renamed a function I forgot to make clean, so when I ran the tests some of them failed
19:18 whiteknight cotto_work: yes
19:18 whiteknight Pynie and Cardinal
19:19 cotto_work I'm glad chromatic will be working on a new one then.
19:27 whiteknight cotto_work: I'm not sure how else to say it. deficiencies in the Parrot object model are dissuading people from working on Pynie and Cardinal
19:27 whiteknight oh... I was looking at the wrong part of the channel
19:28 whiteknight hah, it looked like you were asking me what I was talking about again
19:28 whiteknight disregard
19:29 * dukeleto just created a parrot-security mailing list for the report of Parrot security issues (OSUOSL++)
19:34 dalek tracwiki: v70 | cotto++ | ParrotQuotes
19:34 dalek tracwiki: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/wiki/Pa​rrotQuotes?version=70&amp;action=diff
19:34 fbrito when I do a pull request with lot of commits, can you choose which ones do you accept?
19:34 fbrito a lot*
19:36 dukeleto fbrito: yes. We can either cherry-pick the commits we want, or we can merge your branch, and then revert individual commits
19:38 fbrito ok. I will try to revert myself the commit that I don't want to be pulled
19:44 whiteknight dukeleto: do we have an ETA on the merge of the ipv6 branch?
19:44 whiteknight I would really like to see that one merged by 2.11
19:45 fbrito Ok. Just did the pull request
19:46 whiteknight awesome. Let me go take a look at it
19:46 dukeleto whiteknight: when it actually works :)
19:47 dukeleto whiteknight: i have a TPF grant to work on improving the embed/extend stuff, so ipv6 will take a back seat to that, but it is the next in line in terms of priority
19:47 dukeleto whiteknight: i will hack on that when i am against a wall on embed stuff
19:48 dukeleto whiteknight: some stuff needs to be re-org'ed on the ipv6 branch. Like Addrinfo PMC needs to become SockaddrInfo, or not exist at all.
19:48 whiteknight oaky
19:48 whiteknight I won't hassle you then, I'm just trying to take stock of things that I think are awesome
19:49 dukeleto whiteknight: it is a thin wrapper for keeping track of a pointer, and creating a whole new PMC to do that seems bad
19:49 dukeleto whiteknight: if you can take a quick look at tt1798_ipv6 and tell me how to reorganize the ipv6-related PMC's to something more sane, that would be Super.
19:50 whiteknight I may just do that
19:53 dalek parrot/global_setup_func_rename: 6735bb1 | (Fernando Brito)++ | / (4 files):
19:53 dalek parrot/global_setup_func_rename: renaming Parrot_set_config_hash_internal to Parrot_gbl_set_config_hash_internal
19:53 dalek parrot/global_setup_func_rename: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/6735bb156f
19:53 dalek parrot/global_setup_func_rename: 2f7ae4e | (Fernando Brito)++ | README (2 files):
19:53 dalek parrot/global_setup_func_rename: adding .markdown extension to README for GitHub
19:53 dalek parrot/global_setup_func_rename: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/2f7ae4ef4c
19:53 dalek parrot/global_setup_func_rename: 4e7ba26 | (Fernando Brito)++ | / (4 files):
19:53 dalek parrot/global_setup_func_rename: renaming Parrot_initialize_core_pmcs to Parrot_gbl_initialize_core_pmcs
19:53 dalek parrot/global_setup_func_rename: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/4e7ba26b63
19:53 dalek parrot/global_setup_func_rename: ed542fb | (Fernando Brito)++ | / (3 files):
19:53 dalek parrot/global_setup_func_rename: renaming Parrot_register_core_pmcs to Parrot_gbl_register_core_pmcs
19:53 dalek parrot/global_setup_func_rename: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/ed542fb602
19:53 dalek parrot/global_setup_func_rename: 6c6bfd6 | (Fernando Brito)++ | src/global_setup.c:
19:53 dalek parrot/global_setup_func_rename: renaming parrot_global_setup_2 to Parrot_gbl_setup_2
19:53 dalek parrot/global_setup_func_rename: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/6c6bfd60e8
19:53 dalek parrot/global_setup_func_rename: ad66f87 | (Fernando Brito)++ | src/ (3 files):
19:53 dalek parrot/global_setup_func_rename: renaming init_world_once to Parrot_gbl_init_world_once and parrot_set_config_hash_interpreter to Parrot_gbl_set_config_hash_interpreter
19:53 dalek parrot/global_setup_func_rename: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/ad66f87af6
19:53 dalek parrot/global_setup_func_rename: 92cf618 | (Fernando Brito)++ | include/parrot/global_setup.h:
19:53 dalek parrot/global_setup_func_rename: forgot to rename a init_world_once function
19:53 dalek parrot/global_setup_func_rename: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/92cf61845a
19:54 whiteknight fbrito: Pulled to a branch. I'll test/evaluate it and then merge it to master and close your ticket
19:54 whiteknight give me a few minutes
19:54 whiteknight thanks
19:57 dukeleto fbrito++
19:57 dukeleto karma fbrito
19:57 aloha fbrito has karma of 2.
19:57 dukeleto fbrito: you need to add yourself to CREDITS
19:57 dukeleto fbrito: then aloha will know that (Fernando Brito)++ and fbrito++ are the same person, and will lump the karma together
19:58 whiteknight fbrito: yes, add yourself to CREDITS
19:58 dukeleto fbrito: send a pull request with a patch that adds yourself. You will see the format from the other entries
19:58 whiteknight and don't rename it so it looks better on github!
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20:02 fbrito :o
20:03 Andy joined #parrot
20:05 preflex joined #parrot
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20:07 fbrito whiteknight: I was thinking about getting another Parrot task on GCI. do you consider it a good idea or should I open space for new contributors?
20:08 dukeleto fbrito: take as many as you think you can do. We will create more tasks.
20:08 whiteknight fbrito: yes, take as many as you want. we have MANY tasks
20:09 whiteknight there are many that haven't been made public yet, and many more that are in my head and I haven't created yet
20:10 fbrito nice :D
20:13 whiteknight fbrito: testing now. Cross your fingers!
20:13 * fbrito has all fingers crossed
20:14 whiteknight dukeleto: that README task from vmax looks much better. Do you want to pull it or should I?
20:15 dukeleto whiteknight: go for it
20:16 dukeleto whiteknight: and if you want to create a new task for converting README to POD or markdown, i will approve it
20:17 Coke -1 on POD conversion.
20:18 fbrito take a look on that: https://github.com/fernandob​rito/parrot/tree/wip#readme
20:18 whiteknight fbrito: Complete. Good work
20:19 fbrito only by adding .markdown extension to the README file you already get this
20:19 dalek parrot: 6735bb1 | (Fernando Brito)++ | / (4 files):
20:19 dalek parrot: renaming Parrot_set_config_hash_internal to Parrot_gbl_set_config_hash_internal
20:19 dalek parrot: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/6735bb156f
20:19 dalek parrot: 2f7ae4e | (Fernando Brito)++ | README (2 files):
20:19 dalek parrot: adding .markdown extension to README for GitHub
20:19 dalek parrot: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/2f7ae4ef4c
20:19 dalek parrot: 4e7ba26 | (Fernando Brito)++ | / (4 files):
20:19 dalek parrot: renaming Parrot_initialize_core_pmcs to Parrot_gbl_initialize_core_pmcs
20:19 dalek parrot: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/4e7ba26b63
20:19 dalek parrot: ed542fb | (Fernando Brito)++ | / (3 files):
20:19 dalek parrot: renaming Parrot_register_core_pmcs to Parrot_gbl_register_core_pmcs
20:19 dalek parrot: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/ed542fb602
20:19 dalek parrot: 6c6bfd6 | (Fernando Brito)++ | src/global_setup.c:
20:19 dalek parrot: renaming parrot_global_setup_2 to Parrot_gbl_setup_2
20:19 dalek parrot: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/6c6bfd60e8
20:19 dalek parrot: ad66f87 | (Fernando Brito)++ | src/ (3 files):
20:19 dalek parrot: renaming init_world_once to Parrot_gbl_init_world_once and parrot_set_config_hash_interpreter to Parrot_gbl_set_config_hash_interpreter
20:19 dalek parrot: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/ad66f87af6
20:19 dalek parrot: 92cf618 | (Fernando Brito)++ | include/parrot/global_setup.h:
20:20 dalek parrot: forgot to rename a init_world_once function
20:20 dalek parrot: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/92cf61845a
20:22 dalek parrot/new_readme: 9a0f1b5 | vmax++ | README:
20:22 dalek parrot/new_readme: Added "how to get parrot from github" section
20:22 dalek parrot/new_readme: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/9a0f1b5016
20:22 dalek parrot/new_readme: 4f9d434 | vmax++ | README:
20:22 dalek parrot/new_readme: Added some information, formatted
20:22 dalek parrot/new_readme: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/4f9d434134
20:22 dalek parrot/new_readme: fccfb06 | vmax++ | README:
20:22 dalek parrot/new_readme: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/fccfb06493
20:22 dalek parrot/new_readme: 1cfc9b9 | vmax++ | README:
20:22 dalek parrot/new_readme: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/1cfc9b9f74
20:24 Coke who broke the build?
20:25 Coke Rant: github emails not showing us who committed something, just who wrote it.
20:25 Coke whoof. neither does github?
20:25 Coke or does fernandobrito have commit privs to master?
20:26 dukeleto Coke: whiteknight just merged fbrito's pull request
20:27 whiteknight shit, did something break? I tested it here before I pushed
20:28 whiteknight Coke: fernandobrito wrote it and committed it. I merely pushed those commits into the repo
20:28 whiteknight anybody has commit privs, it's push privs to github that are controlled
20:28 moritz it would be nice if such merges had a Signed-Off-By line
20:29 whiteknight I'm not sure how to do that, otherwise I would be
20:29 fbrito hm
20:29 moritz if you cherry-pick, the syntax is just
20:29 moritz git cherry-pick -s $sha1
20:29 moritz I don't know if pull requests support that too
20:29 Coke whiteknight: he said in the pull request "don't take this commit".
20:29 Coke looks like 2f7ae4ef4c96e51b3b39579731af34668727f20c
20:30 fbrito yes, its the README commit
20:30 fbrito "Please do not accept the commit that changes de README file extension. It make it look pretty nice on GitHub but $ perl Configure.pl will complain about not founding the README file."
20:32 Coke sorry, "broke" is too strong a word.
20:32 Coke whoops! no, it is broke, my build script is stupid.
20:33 dukeleto There is no need to change the README extension, methinks.
20:35 whiteknight I thought I added another commit to undo that README change
20:35 whiteknight I might not have pushed that one
20:36 whiteknight okay, I found it
20:36 whiteknight pushed
20:36 dalek parrot: 414892d | Whiteknight++ | README (2 files):
20:36 dalek parrot: undo README rename
20:36 dalek parrot: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/414892d59c
20:36 whiteknight my apologies
20:36 fbrito my apologies too
20:37 lucian_ joined #parrot
20:39 dukeleto fbrito: learning is fun :)
20:39 dalek parrot: 3e1dedc | Whiteknight++ | README:
20:39 dalek parrot: merge in the README improvements with new git information from GCI student vmax++
20:39 dalek parrot: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/3e1dedcd5f
20:42 lucian left #parrot
20:42 whiteknight I have decided that I absolutely love GCI
20:45 fbrito me too :D
20:46 fbrito beside the problems that I had doing a task that involved kernel compiling with xen virtualization modules and so on :P
20:47 whiteknight I've never used Xen. I've heard it isn't very user-friendly
20:47 whiteknight I like VirtualBox a lot personally
20:50 fbrito yes, me too. but it was a task for ganeti (virtualization clusters management) web-interface
20:50 sorear whiteknight: I'm suprised at how well it's going
20:51 fbrito a really easy task that just required some jQuery knowledge, but setting the environment is like 10 times harder than the task it self
20:54 sorear whiteknight: I had no idea people like fbrito existed.  I thought that all members of the age bracket were shortsighted and immensely irritating
20:55 whiteknight sorear: and they all listen to stupid music!
20:55 whiteknight :)
20:55 fbrito whaaat? don't call mozart stupid, please
20:56 * Coke thought sorear was in the same age bracket!
21:01 sorear Coke: not anymore
21:01 sorear I was 19 when I joined here
21:04 fbrito should I also have a single commit for each different function that I rename?
21:06 fbrito (on this new renaming task that I am working on)
21:15 * Coke thinks it's overkill but isn't applying your patches
21:21 Andy left #parrot
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21:28 whiteknight left #parrot
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21:48 Infinoid Hmm.  Do I still have a commit bit?
21:50 nwellnhof left #parrot
21:52 dalek parrot: f6b063c | infinoid++ | README:
21:52 dalek parrot: [README] Minor nit: the Debian/Ubuntu package is called git-core, not core.
21:52 dalek parrot: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/f6b063c50e
21:53 Coke Infinoid: no, we setup an elaborate hoax to make it look like it, though!
21:54 Infinoid Coke: As long as that elaborate hoax includes the change magically appearing in other people's repos when they update, I'm okay with that. :)
22:01 PerlJam left #parrot
22:01 PerlJam joined #parrot
22:08 fbrito hmm... I probably renamed something wrong on my function renaming task -.- getting
22:08 fbrito ar: blib/lib/libparrot.a: Malformed archive
22:11 cotto_work fbrito: try make clean
22:12 cotto_work That might result from an overeager sed command
22:12 fbrito I have also tried that. Now I have to do a binary search on my commits to find which one broke the build :D
22:16 Coke git makes that easy, at least.
22:18 dalek tracwiki: v6 | plobsing++ | PlobsingTaskList
22:18 dalek tracwiki: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/wiki/Plob​singTaskList?version=6&amp;action=diff
22:18 Infinoid (git-bisect)++
22:18 fbrito interesting. it seems that make clean doesn't delete  blib/lib/libparrot.a
22:22 fbrito is that the expected behavior? should I mark that as a bug/try to make a patch?
22:25 Coke that seems like something that clean should get (as opposed to realclean0
22:30 dalek parrot/generational_gc: e128286 | bacek++ | src/gc/gc_ms2.c:
22:30 dalek parrot/generational_gc: Increase gc_threshold to speed-up testing.
22:30 dalek parrot/generational_gc: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/e1282862d2
22:31 Coke so, why bother fighting with the gc_threshold parameter. wouldn't a flat "use no more than this amount of memory" suffice?
22:32 Coke where "fighting" means "that looks hard and confusing."
22:32 cotto_work fbrito: looks like make clean isn't as clean as one would expect.  Can you file a ticket?
22:33 bacek_at_work Coke, branch is old and doesn't have all new features of master
22:33 fbrito cotto_work: ok, sure
22:33 Coke bacek_at_work: I meant in general, not in your real world case. ;)
22:34 bacek_at_work Coke, master uses fraction of available memory already.
22:35 Coke bacek_at_work: in your case, perhaps.
22:35 Coke so I guess it's a different use case then. hokay.
22:35 fbrito hope to see whiteknight here soon. I have completed another GCI task :)
22:51 dalek TT #1876 created by fbrito++: Should 'make clean' remove blib/ folder?
22:51 dalek TT #1876: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/ticket/1876
22:51 cotto_work fbrito: do you feel like fixing that bug?
23:01 fbrito oh, sorry for taking so long
23:01 fbrito was on telephone
23:01 fbrito I am going to have dinner and then when I come back I will request a pull with my attempt to fix it :D
23:01 fbrito brb
23:01 cotto_work fbrito++
23:03 cotto_work fbrito: I'll take a look at the pull request when I get home if nobody beats me to it
23:08 preflex left #parrot
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23:25 [hercynium] left #parrot
23:40 whiteknight good evening, #parrot
23:45 GeJ Bonjour whiteknight.
23:46 whiteknight hello GeJ, how are you today?
23:46 whiteknight you haven't fallen off the bottom of the planet yet?
23:48 dalek parrot/hll_func_rename: 056265d | (Fernando Brito)++ | CREDITS:
23:48 dalek parrot/hll_func_rename: Adding myself to CREDITS file
23:48 dalek parrot/hll_func_rename: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/056265dec0
23:48 dalek parrot/hll_func_rename: 5e02476 | (Fernando Brito)++ | / (3 files):
23:48 dalek parrot/hll_func_rename: Renaming Parrot_init_HLL() to Parrot_hll_init_HLL()
23:48 dalek parrot/hll_func_rename: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/5e024766c1
23:48 dalek parrot/hll_func_rename: 82337d1 | (Fernando Brito)++ | / (6 files):
23:48 dalek parrot/hll_func_rename: Renaming Parrot_register_HLL() to Parrot_hll_register_HLL()
23:48 dalek parrot/hll_func_rename: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/82337d1c4f
23:49 dalek parrot/hll_func_rename: cff8e25 | (Fernando Brito)++ | / (5 files):
23:49 dalek parrot/hll_func_rename: Renaming Parrot_register_HLL_type() to Parrot_hll_register_HLL_type()
23:49 dalek parrot/hll_func_rename: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/cff8e25a0b
23:49 dalek parrot/hll_func_rename: c412704 | (Fernando Brito)++ | / (3 files):
23:49 dalek parrot/hll_func_rename: Renaming Parrot_get_HLL_type() to Parrot_hll_get_HLL_type()
23:49 dalek parrot/hll_func_rename: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/c412704959
23:49 dalek parrot/hll_func_rename: e515afa | (Fernando Brito)++ | / (26 files):
23:49 dalek parrot/hll_func_rename: Renaming Parrot_get_ctx_HLL_type() to Parrot_hll_get_ctx_HLL_type()
23:49 dalek parrot/hll_func_rename: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/e515afad3f
23:49 dalek parrot/hll_func_rename: 8e80030 | (Fernando Brito)++ | / (6 files):
23:49 dalek parrot/hll_func_rename: Renaming Parrot_get_ctx_HLL_namespace() to Parrot_hll_get_ctx_HLL_namespace()
23:49 dalek parrot/hll_func_rename: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/8e800306cf
23:49 dalek parrot/hll_func_rename: 35090a7 | (Fernando Brito)++ | / (6 files):
23:49 dalek parrot/hll_func_rename: Renaming Parrot_get_HLL_namespace() to Parrot_hll_get_HLL_namespace()
23:49 dalek parrot/hll_func_rename: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/35090a7a61
23:49 dalek parrot/hll_func_rename: f7134de | (Fernando Brito)++ | / (4 files):
23:49 dalek parrot/hll_func_rename: Renaming Parrot_regenerate_HLL_namespaces() to Parrot_hll_regenerate_HLL_namespaces()
23:49 dalek parrot/hll_func_rename: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/f7134def9f
23:49 dalek parrot/hll_func_rename: f89a69a | (Fernando Brito)++ | / (5 files):
23:49 dalek parrot/hll_func_rename: Renaming Parrot_get_HLL_name() to Parrot_hll_get_HLL_name()
23:49 dalek parrot/hll_func_rename: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/f89a69a2ce
23:49 dalek parrot/hll_func_rename: 99bcc83 | (Fernando Brito)++ | / (4 files):
23:49 dalek parrot/hll_func_rename: Renaming Parrot_get_HLL_id() to Parrot_hll_get_HLL_id()
23:49 dalek parrot/hll_func_rename: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/99bcc837e2
23:49 fbrito hope that I don't break the build again, ahhaha
23:50 whiteknight Once I pull the code, I'm responsible. I hope *I* don't break it again :)
23:50 dukeleto fbrito: nice atomic commits!
23:52 fbrito :D
23:52 whiteknight commit early, commit often
23:59 fbrito i love how lots of opensource projects has integration between repository, IRC bot, ticket system, build bots, etc :)

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