Camelia, the Perl 6 bug

IRC log for #parrot, 2011-01-13

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Time Nick Message
00:00 kid51 The other one:  http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/ticket/1957 reported today; apparently my error; I have posted patch; awaiting his response; if favorable, do we apply before 3.0?
00:01 tadzik ho, there's much more added in nqp-rx that I did add
00:01 nwellnhof whiteknight: to capture stdin, stdout and stderr of exec'ed processes we should use something like OSProcess which i sketched in ideas in IOTasklist. for other things, we should use sockets.
00:02 tadzik but that may be due to lack of distutils there
00:02 dukeleto tadzik: yep
00:03 dukeleto tadzik: the file examples/io/post.pir in the parrot repo will post to smolder correctly, perhaps you can use that to debug your issue
00:03 dukeleto tadzik: if you add the feature that it takes a file name as the first argument, i would merge that pull request, hint hint ;)
00:04 dukeleto tadzik: i am not sure if something is messed up with smolder. if you are having the same problem as me, that leads me to think smolder is at issue
00:04 cotto_work kid51: +1 to 1957
00:04 dukeleto tadzik: let me know what you find out
00:05 tadzik bah, can I take a further look tomorrow? The interesting stuff is happening when I gotta go sleeping :/
00:05 tadzik I can post the so-far-patch
00:07 tadzik dukeleto: ^
00:10 tadzik dukeleto: http://wklej.org/id/456079/txt/ that's what I got, sorry, but I really need to get some zzzz
00:11 * tadzik sleeps, goodnight Parrots!
00:17 Kristaba left #parrot
00:18 kid51 whiteknight: ping
00:32 kid51 is now known as kid51_at_dinner
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01:01 dukeleto cotto_work: the tree-optimization library has a LICENSE file with Artistic 2.0. is everyone cool with that?
01:02 dalek tree-optimization: cced99d | dukeleto++ | README:
01:02 dalek tree-optimization: Add a basic README
01:02 dalek tree-optimization: review: https://github.com/parrot/tree-​optimization/commit/cced99d070
01:09 Yuki`N left #parrot
01:09 cotto_work dukeleto: why would that be an issue?  It's the same as Parrot.
01:26 dalek parrot: edad062 | nwellnhof++ | src/io/buffer.c:
01:26 dalek parrot: [io] Try to handle corner case with readline, pipes and multi-byte encodings
01:26 dalek parrot:
01:26 dalek parrot: It'll be fun to write test that reliably triggers this code path.
01:26 dalek parrot: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/edad0625b8
01:31 dukeleto cotto_work: just checking
01:39 dalek tree-optimization: e6fcac4 | dukeleto++ | README:
01:39 dalek tree-optimization: Make README a bit more useful
01:39 dalek tree-optimization: review: https://github.com/parrot/tree-​optimization/commit/e6fcac417f
01:40 kid51_at_dinner is now known as kid51
01:43 nwellnhof whiteknight: have a look at IPC::Run for how we should handle spawning processes: http://search.cpan.org/perldoc?IPC::Run
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01:47 whiteknight kid51: pong
01:48 whiteknight nwellnhof: I don't care what we use for it. Whether we call it Pipe or OSProcess or whatever. So long as we eventually have a tool for doing bidirectional communications with a foreign process
01:48 whiteknight nwellnhof: your sketches on the tasklist page look good to me
01:49 whiteknight msg kid51: That ticket was probably a mistake. I didn't mean to take it from you. Happened in a flurry of activity. You can take it back or I can assign it back to you
01:49 aloha OK. I'll deliver the message.
01:50 whiteknight cottow_work, dukeleto: Didn't we want to merge tree-optimization into the master repo?
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01:50 nwellnhof whiteknight: i'd like to get rid of overloading FileHandle.open with IPC functionality. that's an ugly Perl5ism.
01:51 whiteknight nwellnhof: yes. That's why I suggested Pipe. Wherever we move it is fine, so long as it doesn't stay in FileHandle
01:51 kid51 whiteknight:  If you have some thought on what we should do, please post in ticket.  But you can assign it back to me in any event.
01:52 kid51 We're getting a variety of smolder test failures: different on different platforms
01:52 kid51 t/dynpmc/debug.t on Darwin/i386
01:52 kid51 t/src/atomic.t on Linux
01:52 whiteknight t/dynpmc/debug.t is failing on windows too. I suspect that test is bad
01:52 whiteknight We may want to TODO those failures for now
01:52 whiteknight the t/src/atomic.t ones seem to happen when built without certain libraries. We may want to TODO those as well
01:53 whiteknight I suspect the atomic.t tests aren't useful now anyway, since we don't have robust threading
01:53 nwellnhof whiteknight: i don't like the name "Pipe". it stems from using the pipe system call before fork/exec, but that's an internal UNIX thing.
01:54 whiteknight right. I don't care what it's called
01:54 whiteknight PinkBunnySlippers for all I care
01:54 kid51 non-ascii characters:  # Failed to build 't/src/atomic_3.o': t/src/atomic_3.c: In function ‗main :
01:55 nwellnhof whiteknight: i had a look at t/dynpmc/debug.t. it has to do with readline, output buffering and tty assumptions that break on windows. we should todo it on windows.
01:56 whiteknight nwellnhof: yes, that's my opinion of it too
01:56 kid51 the majority of the 20 most recent smolder reports are showing failures
01:58 whiteknight dukeleto has that smoker from the GCC compile farm exercising several infrequently-used configure options
01:59 kid51 the t/dynpmc/debug.t failure is from a friend of mine whom I've persuaded to do smoke testing on Darwin/i386.  That's not an old failure, AFAICT.
02:00 dalek tree-optimization: 2076796 | bacek++ | t/tree-optimizer.t:
02:00 dalek tree-optimization: Fix test to run on modern parrot
02:00 dalek tree-optimization: review: https://github.com/parrot/tree-​optimization/commit/2076796e85
02:02 dukeleto whiteknight: yep :) Let me know if you want more
02:04 dalek tree-optimization: 0081995 | dukeleto++ | setup.nqp:
02:04 dalek tree-optimization: Add smoke target to setup.nqp, tadzik++
02:04 dalek tree-optimization:
02:04 dalek tree-optimization: This doesn't seem to be working yet, but looks to be a problem with Smolder.
02:04 dalek tree-optimization: review: https://github.com/parrot/tree-​optimization/commit/00819951d3
02:05 kid51 Correction: the name of that test is: t/dynoplibs/debug.t
02:13 whiteknight kid51: t/src/atomic.t is an invalid test if configured with --without-threads
02:14 whiteknight so the task here is to figure out how to skip those tests if --without-threads
02:15 whiteknight kid51: I assume there is going to be something in Parrot::Config that contains this information?
02:24 cotto ~~
02:26 whiteknight looks like the HAS_THREADS flag in parrot_config has the info we need in that test
02:32 whiteknight no, I was wrong. HAS_THREADS is '1' whether we have --without-threads or not
02:34 whiteknight okay, if the test is bad, and there's no good way to conditionally skip it, I say we uncondtionally skip it
02:36 dukeleto whiteknight: sounds good for now
02:36 dukeleto and perhaps create a TT to create something useful in parrot_config for figuring out with/without threads
02:36 whiteknight okay, what's the perl5ese for "skip this whole damn file"?
02:37 whiteknight I'll create the ticket if you can figure out how to skip that file
02:38 cotto whiteknight, git rm
02:42 whiteknight not a bad idea
02:42 kid51 whiteknight: vi +40 config/auto/thread.pm
02:44 dukeleto whiteknight: skip_all
02:47 * whiteknight is going to bed now
02:48 whiteknight left #parrot
02:49 dalek TT #1959 created by whiteknight++: Configure flag for --without-threads
02:49 dalek TT #1959: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/ticket/1959
02:49 dalek TT #379 closed by cotto++: Generate POSIX errno Constants
02:49 dalek TT #379: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/ticket/379
02:53 cotto Does anyone know what the S_SPLINT_S macro indicates?
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02:54 cotto nm.  found it
03:04 cotto plobsing, ping
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03:19 dalek parrot: f9dc2d1 | jkeenan++ | t/steps/auto/thread-01.t:
03:19 dalek parrot: Test config/auto/thread.pm more thoroughly.
03:19 dalek parrot: Mock several cases coded in runstep().
03:19 dalek parrot: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/f9dc2d10ad
03:34 plobsing cotto: pong
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03:38 dalek TT #1960 created by bacek++: make install doesn't update libparrot.so symlink.
03:38 dalek TT #1960: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/ticket/1960
03:39 cotto plobsing, is PARROT_CATCH_NULL necessary for splint?
03:40 plobsing I don't know much about splint. That's Andy's domain IIRC.
03:41 cotto git blames you for adding some macros related to it in include/parrot/interpreter.h
03:41 plobsing yeah. that was for stringnull.
03:41 plobsing just cargo culted from pmcnull
03:41 plobsing I'm not entirely certain of the value of splint's null-checking.
03:41 cotto ok
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03:42 plobsing as implemented, it requires PMCNULL and STRINGNULL be NULL and then flags functions which don't declare they are expecting these.
03:42 plobsing however, the way these work in practice, most functions don't have to be aware of them if they just pass them through
03:43 plobsing we have complex support code for all this. ARGIN vs ARGIN_NULLOK, etc... for something that no longer should cause segfaults
03:44 plobsing of course, like I said before, I am not our splint expert, and therefore I could be totally wrong.
03:44 cotto ok.  I'll verify with andy before it gets ripped out.
03:45 cotto It's not messing anything up.
03:45 sorear lester or dougherty?
03:45 cotto lester
03:45 cotto aka petdance
03:45 plobsing sorear: I used only the first name intentionally :)
03:52 cotto seen jvd
03:52 aloha Sorry, I haven't seen jvd.
05:19 cotto msg kid51 +1 to apply the 1950 patch to fix pbc_disassemble.
05:19 aloha OK. I'll deliver the message.
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07:49 dukeleto ~~
07:50 tadzik ~~
07:50 tadzik dukeleto: how are the smoke targets?
07:52 dukeleto tadzik: i applied your patch, but something is still borked with smolder
07:52 dukeleto tadzik: i sent in a support ticket to OSUOSL to get the smolder logs
07:59 GeJ hum... These are going to be three interesting days.
08:00 GeJ http://meteo.nc/prod/cyclones/​sata_QDEA01NWBB.jpg?1606729274
08:01 GeJ Oops, wrong channel. Please ignore this.
08:04 cotto dukeleto, you should make sure "deprecations as data" doesn't die.
08:04 cotto also, alliteration
08:04 dukeleto cotto: yes, i need to get on that train
08:05 cotto I imagine you have many such trains.
08:05 dukeleto cotto: they all keep going in different directions
08:06 dukeleto cotto: what is the first useful feature that "DaD" can implement?
08:06 cotto I'm learning that I can pretty easily spend all my time doing project-related stuff and end up hardly looking at code.
08:06 dukeleto cotto: yea, GSoC and GCI taught me that :)
08:09 dukeleto cotto: i am noticing odd stuff in our vtables
08:09 dalek parrot/leto/embed_grant: b970e1a | dukeleto++ | t/src/embed.t:
08:09 dalek parrot/leto/embed_grant: [t] Parrot_PMC_(absolute|add_float|can)
08:09 dalek parrot/leto/embed_grant: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/b970e1ac2a
08:09 cotto I'll have to think about what the simplest possible useful thing DaD could provide.
08:09 dukeleto cotto: cmp, cmp_num and cmp_pmc all have the same function signature
08:09 cotto dukeleto, there's no end
08:09 cotto ...
08:09 dukeleto cotto: which seems pretty odd to me
08:10 dukeleto cotto: look at src/vtable.tbl
08:10 dukeleto cotto: they are all the same
08:10 dukeleto cotto: why?
08:10 cotto It seems to be implemented as a MULTI in some of the numeric PMCs.
08:10 dukeleto oh yes! MULTIs make things make sense again.
08:10 * dukeleto was worried for a sec
08:11 cotto it's also a VTABLE sometimes
08:11 dukeleto cotto: do you have a ranked list of stuf that you are hacking on?
08:11 dukeleto cotto: i certainly need one
08:12 cotto I did but it's probably stale.
08:12 cotto very good idea, especially if something on it is half-done and begging to get finished
08:12 dukeleto cotto: yes. i am thinking that it is useful for team leaders to have such a list
08:12 cotto It would be very nice to get consistency in VTABLE function naming and usage.
08:13 dukeleto cotto: then we can easily point to stuff for people to hack on, that want to join a team
08:14 cotto I like.
08:14 dukeleto cotto: we need a DaD spec and we need a script to convert DEPRECATED.pod into a datastructure
08:17 dukeleto cotto: i will try to add notes to the TT
08:23 cotto ok.  It's probably most important to get the goal down so that some interested hacker can figure out how to fill in the gaps.
08:23 dukeleto cotto: we don't have any milestones past 2.11 in trac.
08:24 dukeleto cotto: i was going to mark DaD as something we want for 3.3
08:28 cotto sounds reasonable.  Did you read kid51++'s thoughts about roadmaps?  He recommended that we require all milestones have 2+ people committed to delivering them.
08:29 dukeleto cotto: yes, i read his blog posts
08:29 dukeleto cotto: i think i agree with him
08:30 dukeleto cotto: writing down wishes that don't have a chance of making happen gets people frustrated
08:30 cotto me too
08:30 cotto I really wish I didn't need to go to sleep, but that doesn't make it true.
08:31 dukeleto cotto: ok, we shall talk in the morrow
08:31 cotto 'night
08:31 cotto also, think about who you'd delegate stuff to.  Not enough of that is happening.
08:32 cotto DaD seems like a great thing to do that with.
08:32 cotto 'night (for real this time)
08:33 dukeleto tadzik: ping
08:34 dalek parrot/leto/embed_grant: 378e023 | dukeleto++ | t/src/embed.t:
08:34 dalek parrot/leto/embed_grant: [t] Parrot_PMC_does
08:34 dalek parrot/leto/embed_grant: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/378e023cc4
08:42 dalek parrot/leto/embed_grant: f1426b0 | dukeleto++ | t/src/embed.t:
08:42 dalek parrot/leto/embed_grant: [t] Parrot_PMC_get_class
08:42 dalek parrot/leto/embed_grant: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/f1426b0531
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09:28 dalek parrot/leto/embed_grant: 254d53b | dukeleto++ | t/src/embed.t:
09:28 dalek parrot/leto/embed_grant: [t] Parrot_PMC_is_equal_num
09:28 dalek parrot/leto/embed_grant: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/254d53b0b7
09:28 dalek parrot/leto/embed_grant: eb9ad12 | dukeleto++ | t/src/embed.t:
09:28 dalek parrot/leto/embed_grant: [t] Parrot_PMC_(is_same|is_equal​_string|cmp_num|cmp_string)
09:28 dalek parrot/leto/embed_grant: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/eb9ad12796
09:28 dalek parrot/leto/embed_grant: e1c851b | dukeleto++ | t/src/embed.t:
09:28 dalek parrot/leto/embed_grant: [t] Parrot_PMC_i_divide
09:28 dalek parrot/leto/embed_grant: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/e1c851ba97
09:28 dalek parrot/leto/embed_grant: 61c37da | dukeleto++ | t/src/embed.t:
09:28 dalek parrot/leto/embed_grant: [t] Parrot_PMC_visit
09:28 dalek parrot/leto/embed_grant: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/61c37da316
09:28 dalek parrot/leto/embed_grant: 90aeef2 | dukeleto++ | t/src/embed.t:
09:28 dalek parrot/leto/embed_grant: [t] Parrot_PMC_(type|get_bool|set_bool)
09:28 dalek parrot/leto/embed_grant: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/90aeef2f5b
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10:36 tadzik dukeleto: pong
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13:00 mikehh All tests PASS (pre/post-config, make corevm/make coretest, smoke (#2618) fulltest) at 2_11_0-1108-gf9dc2d1 - Ubuntu 10.10 i386 (gcc-4.5)
13:01 mikehh g++ build is failing t/src/embed.t
13:12 dalek parrot: a88a9d9 | jkeenan++ | / (2 files):
13:12 dalek parrot: Fix overriding of command-line option for optimization level.
13:12 dalek parrot:
13:12 dalek parrot: Cf.:  http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/ticket/1957.
13:12 dalek parrot: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/a88a9d95c9
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13:15 kid51 msg cotto Can you comment on http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/ticket/1950?  Should we apply before 3.0?
13:15 aloha OK. I'll deliver the message.
13:22 kid51 left #parrot
13:25 Coke t/src/embed.t is causing a lot of smoke, is someone looking at that?
13:25 Coke kid51 - didn't he say go for it in backscroll?
13:30 dalek TT #1957 closed by jkeenan++: Configure.pl ignores argument given to --optimize
13:30 dalek TT #1957: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/ticket/1957
13:30 dalek TT #1925 closed by jkeenan++: remove config step auto::jit
13:30 dalek TT #1925: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/ticket/1925
13:30 dalek TT #1953 closed by doughera++: platform/generic/env.c incorrectly frees string passed to putenv()
13:30 dalek TT #1953: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/ticket/1953
13:30 dalek TT #1952 closed by doughera++: t/src/misc.t tests 1 and 2 fail under C89 compiler
13:30 dalek TT #1952: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/ticket/1952
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14:05 whiteknight good morning, #parrot
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14:35 whiteknight plobsing: ping
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15:19 dalek parrot: 2ca82d9 | jkeenan++ | / (2 files):
15:19 dalek parrot: TT #1950: Applying updated patches from doughera++.
15:19 dalek parrot:
15:19 dalek parrot: See:  http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/ticket/1950.
15:19 dalek parrot: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/2ca82d9c5b
15:25 dalek TT #1950 closed by jkeenan++: pbc_disassemble dumps core on illegal options
15:25 dalek TT #1950: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/ticket/1950
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16:38 dukeleto ~~
16:46 whiteknight good morning, duke
16:50 dukeleto whiteknight: mornin'! What are you hacking on today?
16:50 whiteknight you'll see...
16:51 dalek parrot/imcc_interp_code: fa6d538 | plobsing++ | src/packfile/api.c:
16:51 dalek parrot/imcc_interp_code: make sure initial_pf is in place whenever we build default segs
16:51 dalek parrot/imcc_interp_code: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/fa6d538430
16:51 dalek parrot/imcc_interp_code: 223076f | Whiteknight++ | src/packfile/api.c:
16:51 dalek parrot/imcc_interp_code: merge in plobsing++'s commit to ensure we have an initial_pf
16:51 dalek parrot/imcc_interp_code: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/223076f334
16:51 dalek parrot/kill_packfile_new_dummy: 9d9cd51 | Whiteknight++ | src/ (2 files):
16:51 dalek parrot/kill_packfile_new_dummy: We always need an initial_pf, so just create it when we initialize the interpreter. Then we don't need to be checking for it later
16:51 dalek parrot/kill_packfile_new_dummy: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/9d9cd51abc
16:51 dalek parrot/kill_packfile_new_dummy: fc0f759 | Whiteknight++ | / (5 files):
16:51 dalek parrot/kill_packfile_new_dummy: Add some accessors for interp->initial_pf and interp->code to the packfile API. Add a new function to set a packfile as the itnerp's current packfile. Use this new function to reimplement Parrot_pbc_load, and replace several uses of Parrot_pbc_load with Parrot_pf_set_current_packfile. While I'm there, use some proper values for Exception type in embedding api
16:51 dalek parrot/kill_packfile_new_dummy: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/fc0f759060
16:51 dalek parrot/kill_packfile_new_dummy: 21b259b | Whiteknight++ | / (5 files):
16:51 dalek parrot/kill_packfile_new_dummy: create a new function Parrot_pf_create_default_segments to start replacing PF_create_default_segs. Add a new parameter to PF_create_default_segs that forces us to update interp->code, so we don't need to do the assignment in IMCC
16:51 dalek parrot/kill_packfile_new_dummy: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/21b259b596
16:51 dalek parrot/kill_packfile_new_dummy: 8a84768 | Whiteknight++ | compilers/imcc/pbc.c:
16:51 dalek parrot/kill_packfile_new_dummy: remove all instances of 'interp->code' from compilers/imcc/pbc.c. Replace it with the new accessor functions. Don't look it up in the various static functions, instead pass a reference. In reality, many of these need a reference to PackFile_ConstTable instead of PackFile_ByteCode instead.
16:51 dalek parrot/kill_packfile_new_dummy: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/8a84768fd2
16:51 dalek parrot/kill_packfile_new_dummy: c846413 | Whiteknight++ | compilers/imcc/parser_util.c:
16:51 dalek parrot/kill_packfile_new_dummy: remove all instances of interp->code from compilers/imcc/parser_util.c. Replace with accessor functions
16:51 dalek parrot/kill_packfile_new_dummy: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/c8464139ba
16:51 dalek parrot: 2511592 | nwellnhof++ | src/io/core.c:
16:51 dalek parrot: [io] Hopefully make Win32 sockets work again
16:51 dalek parrot: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/2511592135
16:53 whiteknight nwellnhof: I'm on windows, if you need something tested
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16:58 nwellnhof whiteknight: can you test master on windows and comment out the skip in t/pmc/socket.t? that would be great.
17:00 nwellnhof nwellnhof: turns out that i broke the windows socket code. fperrad++ for bisecting.
17:00 nwellnhof but now we should have a useful test at least.
17:02 dukeleto yay, tests!
17:04 nwellnhof that reminds me to checkout the coverage reports...
17:05 nwellnhof src/io/socket_api.c: from 29.7% to 81.2%
17:05 nwellnhof src/io/socket_unix.c: from 21.3% to 75.6%
17:06 nwellnhof src/pmc/socket.pmc: from 31.2% to 45.3%
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17:09 whiteknight nwellnhof: test passes without the skip
17:09 whiteknight nwellnhof++
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17:10 dukeleto nwellnhof: i have a branch that adds ipv6 and various tests to socket.pmc
17:10 dukeleto nwellnhof: looks like it will be fun to merge :)
17:10 nwellnhof whiteknight: thanks for testing
17:11 dukeleto nwellnhof: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/tree/tt1798_ipv6
17:11 dukeleto nwellnhof: it definitely needs some love
17:11 dukeleto tadzik: ping
17:12 nwellnhof dukeleto: having a look at it right now
17:13 dukeleto nwellnhof: someone dumped a huge patch on us that added ipv6, but had no tests, so I applied it in that branch and started adding tests and making it work
17:13 dukeleto nwellnhof: but then got distracted by other shiny things
17:14 dukeleto nwellnhof: feel free to hack on that branch if it interests you
17:14 plobsing joined #parrot
17:15 whiteknight I would very much like to see IPv6 support in Parrot proper
17:15 nwellnhof dukeleto: it will be a bit of work to merge tt1798_ipv6 and platform_src, but it shouldn't be too bad.
17:18 nwellnhof we should also have good chances to get IPv6 working on windows without much effort, then
17:23 theory joined #parrot
17:23 dukeleto nwellnhof: i wonder what merge strategy will lead to the fewest conflicts. I branched tt1798_ipv6 quite a while ago
17:23 dukeleto whiteknight: yes, me too. I figure we will get an influx of IPv6 hackers if we have basic support for it
17:24 nwellnhof dukeleto:  i have no idea. i never played around with different merge strategies.
17:24 dukeleto nwellnhof: i am talking about "merge tt1798 first, then platform_src" or merging platform_src and tt1798_ipv6 or ....
17:25 nwellnhof dukeleto: good question...
17:26 dukeleto nwellnhof: how close is platform_src to being mergable?
17:27 nwellnhof dukeleto: pretty close. but i'd like to merge it after 3.0
17:29 PerlJam random branch question: Is someone going to clean up old branches at some point?  Currently there appears to be 84 different branches.  That number only seems to increase.
17:37 dukeleto nwellnhof: of course. No more merges before 3.0
17:38 dukeleto PerlJam: are you volunteering ? :)
17:38 PerlJam dukeleto: the problem is that I wouldn't know what to keep and what to throw away.
17:38 dukeleto PerlJam: old branches are a form of history. I know that some will never be merged, but there is probably something around 20 branches that should be merged
17:39 dukeleto PerlJam: are you willing to volunteer to ask parrot-dev which branches people want to see merged, and which are for historical purposes?
17:39 dukeleto PerlJam: we could move historical branches to a different naming scheme, like branch foo becomes historical/foo or something like that
17:40 dukeleto PerlJam: so it is more obvious in our branch list
17:40 whiteknight I don't think there really should be too many of those
17:40 whiteknight if any
17:40 dukeleto whiteknight: many of what?
17:40 whiteknight I've been trying to delete old branches which have already been merged
17:40 whiteknight dukeleto: historical branches
17:40 dukeleto whiteknight: we had at least 30 branches that come over from subversion
17:40 dukeleto whiteknight: i don't see those getting merged soon
17:41 dukeleto but i would love to be proved wrong
17:42 whiteknight gsoc_past_optimization can go away now that tree-optimizations is it's own repo?
17:43 whiteknight any branch that's more than 5000 commits behind master is extremely suspect and can probably be deleted
17:44 dukeleto whiteknight: i think we should ask the community what we should do with really old branches. I am fine with them staying there for historical purposes
17:44 dukeleto whiteknight: i think gsoc_past_optimization can go away, but I am not 100% sure
17:44 whiteknight they are cluttering the interface at github
17:44 whiteknight that may not be a huge problem
17:44 dukeleto whiteknight: i hear ya
17:45 dukeleto whiteknight: the problem of having too many branches is a lot better than the problem of having not enough :)
17:47 * PerlJam apparently has a bunch of dead branches in his local clone
17:48 PerlJam dukeleto: What are these "historical purposes" exactly?  What utility are they?
17:48 whiteknight I'm going to deal with exceptions_refactor and exceptions_refactor_merge soonish myself
17:49 davidfetter joined #parrot
17:49 whiteknight dukeleto: What's the story with fix_git_info_cache?
17:50 dalek parrot/kill_packfile_new_dummy: c8856ce | Whiteknight++ | compilers/imcc/pbc.c:
17:50 dalek parrot/kill_packfile_new_dummy: remove instance of interp->initial_pf from compilers/imcc/pbc.c
17:50 dalek parrot/kill_packfile_new_dummy: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/c8856ceacb
17:51 dukeleto whiteknight: i have no clue off the top of my head, but I probably created the branch, by the way you are asking :)
17:51 whiteknight yeah
17:51 whiteknight :)
17:52 * dukeleto looks
17:55 whiteknight I'm going to merge in the readme translation branches, and move all the translated readmes into a translations folder until we figure out how to deal with them
17:55 whiteknight at the very least, I think we should keep them all together for now
17:56 davidfetter anybody going to be at FOSDEM this year?
17:57 davidfetter btw, i've gone and rooted my android device. is there some parrot thing i can play with on it?
17:57 dukeleto davidfetter: where is it again?
17:57 dukeleto davidfetter: download and install SL4A
17:57 dukeleto davidfetter: which allows you to run interpreted language scripts on your android
17:57 dukeleto davidfetter: currently Python, Ruby, Perl 5, JS and Lua are supported, i think
17:58 dukeleto whiteknight: +1 to that
17:58 davidfetter brussels, and i'll give it a whirl, respectively :)
17:59 whiteknight e doincoming
17:59 whiteknight incoming
17:59 dalek parrot: 5ec8f63 | Whiteknight++ | / (6 files):
17:59 dalek parrot: move translated README files into a dedicated translations directory for now, while we figure out what to do with them
17:59 dalek parrot: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/5ec8f63c5d
17:59 dalek parrot: 73bea86 | Whiteknight++ | README.български:
18:00 dalek parrot: Merge remote branch 'origin/bulgarian_readme'
18:00 dalek parrot: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/73bea864da
18:00 dalek parrot: 9f354ba | Whiteknight++ | / (2 files):
18:00 dalek parrot: Move the bulgarian readme into the translations folder
18:00 dalek parrot: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/9f354bad49
18:00 dalek parrot: f6d18b3 | Whiteknight++ | / (2 files):
18:00 dalek parrot: merge conflicts
18:00 dalek parrot: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/f6d18b3d4b
18:00 dalek parrot: 8e61602 | Whiteknight++ | / (2 files):
18:00 dalek parrot: move ptBR README to translations folder
18:00 dalek parrot: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/8e61602115
18:00 dalek parrot: a965a0c | Whiteknight++ | README.francais:
18:00 dalek parrot: Merge remote branch 'origin/gci_french_readme'
18:00 dalek parrot: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/a965a0c3c9
18:00 dalek parrot: 27f9e5c | Whiteknight++ | / (2 files):
18:00 dalek parrot: move french README to docs/translations
18:00 dalek parrot: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/27f9e5cb65
18:00 * davidfetter hits the deck
18:00 davidfetter dukeleto, fosdem's pretty enormous, as FLOSS conferences go
18:04 whiteknight okay, I've removed 6 branches from the list.
18:05 davidfetter pruning++
18:05 davidfetter whiteknight++ :)
18:05 whiteknight The gci_fill_params_reduce branches can probably go too. I think we've decided that we won't be going in that direction
18:05 whiteknight but I'll wait for that
18:12 dalek TT #1955 closed by fperrad++: socket broken on Windows
18:12 dalek TT #1955: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/ticket/1955
18:12 fbrito joined #parrot
18:24 whiteknight dukeleto: Those smolder reports from that GCC compile farm bot you set up are coming in pretty frequently. I worry that they are drowning out reports from other platforms
18:25 whiteknight What we really need, I think, is a smolder-bot on windows
18:25 whiteknight that's one of the platforms where we have the fewest developers working, and errors there go unreported for a long time
18:25 dukeleto whiteknight: i can make them less frequent
18:25 dukeleto whiteknight: what would you like to see?
18:25 dukeleto whiteknight: sadly, no windows in the gcc compile farm
18:26 dukeleto whiteknight: but they are buying a darwin box with GSoC money
18:26 whiteknight dukeleto: I don't know, really. linux/x64 is probably our most stable platform by virtue of the most active developers being on there
18:26 whiteknight A darwin smoker would be awesome.
18:26 dukeleto whiteknight: sure, but it is mostly the combination of compile flags that i am testing. I can run that same setup on a sparc machine in the farm, or something else
18:26 whiteknight particle suggested that he had a server we could use. Maybe we can ask him if he has windows on there
18:27 whiteknight dukeleto: right
18:27 dukeleto whiteknight: also, my parrot smoker is pretty easy to setup, so I will document it soon, so others can smoke parrot from the comfort of their own machines
18:28 whiteknight dukeleto: awesome
18:31 dukeleto whiteknight: i just changed the smoker to sleep 10 minutes between each build of different compile flags
18:31 jsut_ joined #parrot
18:31 dukeleto whiteknight: before it was only sleeping 30 minutes after testing every compile flag option
18:31 dukeleto whiteknight: if it is still too much, just let me know
18:33 whiteknight dukeleto: It's not that these reports are coming in too quick. I just wish we had other reports coming in from other platforms at the same frequency
18:35 whiteknight these reports you have set up are extremely valuable
18:35 dukeleto whiteknight: ok, i will setup another smoker on a different architecture in the farm
18:35 whiteknight dukeleto: On the second machine, we probably don't need to exercise all the configure options as diligently
18:36 dukeleto whiteknight: i hear ya, but it is easier to just do them all
18:36 dukeleto whiteknight: my smoker looks for all scripts that match a pattern in a directory, and execute them all
18:36 dukeleto whiteknight: each script builds parrot with different flags
18:36 whiteknight okay, that's fine too. We maybe don't need reports every 10 minutes though
18:36 jsut left #parrot
18:36 dukeleto whiteknight: 30 mins?
18:36 whiteknight yeah, 30 min should be fine
18:36 dukeleto whiteknight: that is probably more reasonable :)
18:38 dalek parrot: 1ca191d | dukeleto++ | / (3 files):
18:38 dalek parrot: [t] Caching git describe strings
18:38 dalek parrot:
18:38 dalek parrot: This is a fixed version of the code that was getting modly in the
18:38 dalek parrot: fix_git_info_cache branch. whiteknight++ for reminding me about it.
18:38 dalek parrot: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/1ca191d54b
18:38 dukeleto modly! Darn.
18:38 * dukeleto needs to start spellchecking commit messages
18:39 dukeleto whiteknight: one more branch gone (i killed fix_git_info_cache)
18:40 whiteknight awesome
18:40 whiteknight I'm installing OpenIndiana in a VM. I can use that for occasional smoke reports
18:40 cotto_work ~~
18:40 whiteknight good morning, cotto_work
18:40 cotto_work hi whiteknight
18:41 dukeleto src/pbc_disassemble.c:80: error: invalid conversion from ‘int’ to ‘OPTION_flags’
18:42 whiteknight dukeleto: Where is that error happening?
18:42 dukeleto the smoker just ran into that on master
18:42 whiteknight dukeleto: in gcc or g++?
18:42 dukeleto whiteknight: g++
18:43 whiteknight we probably need a cast somewhere. I can't look at it right now
18:44 dalek parrot: d93c1fb | fperrad++ | tools/dev/fetch_languages.pl:
18:44 dalek parrot: [languages] Cardinal moves on github.com/parrot
18:44 dalek parrot: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/d93c1fb2fd
18:44 dukeleto whiteknight: kid51 partially undid a recent commit that fixed that
18:46 Coke (drowning out) that's crazy. more the merrier.
18:47 dukeleto Coke: yeah, you want a flood of reports?
18:47 Coke you can get an RSS feed of just-failures - we should be smoking green, so if we're just looking at failures, it doesn't matter how  many OKs are coming in.
18:47 whiteknight dukeleto can turn it up to 11
18:47 Coke once the t/src/embed.t failures are fixed, that's most of it right now.
18:47 Coke and those really need to be fixed before 3.0 anyway.
18:49 Coke (and also the RSS feed needs to be fixed to show currect URLs)
18:49 dukeleto Coke: i can filter that RSS feeds and correct the URLs, but that is a bug in smolder
18:49 Coke smolder's on CPAN, ja?
18:50 dalek parrot: 59faf46 | dukeleto++ | / (2 files):
18:50 dalek parrot: Fix MANIFEST
18:50 dalek parrot: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/59faf46dc2
18:50 whiteknight The tests in t/src/atomic.t should be skipped unconditionally for now
18:50 whiteknight actually, They probably should be deleted outright, but an unconditional skip works for now
18:51 whiteknight I'll look at t/src/embed.t when I have a chance
18:51 Coke ugh, we're still caching git describe?
18:51 dukeleto Coke: yeps. I even have a commit bit to smolder on github, I think. But that doesn't mean I want to wade through that codebase
18:51 dukeleto Coke: what do you mean "still" ?
18:51 Coke to get a correct git describe, you have to make realclean, last I checked.
18:52 whiteknight dukeleto: commit bit to smolder on github? I opened a pull request there like 2 months back that never got any attention
18:52 whiteknight (a simple spelling/grammar fix, no code)
18:54 dukeleto whiteknight: hmm, let me check if I actually do
18:54 dukeleto whiteknight: i lied. I have a fork
18:55 dukeleto whiteknight: there is also the problem that OSUOSL groans every time they have to touch Smolder. Just because we fix a bug in smolder, doesn't mean we are going to be able to get that deployed
18:55 dukeleto so I consider fixing Smolder a losing game
18:55 whiteknight okay
18:55 dukeleto Smolder is very hard for the admins to manage
18:56 whiteknight is there software like smolder, to host and display test reports, that isn't smolder?
18:56 dukeleto it tooks them days of debugging to install it and it's deps correctly
18:56 whiteknight if there is a better alternative, I'm not against moving
18:56 dukeleto whiteknight: there are similar things
18:58 dukeleto oopsie, my last commit had an extra change in it
18:59 dukeleto lets see if it fixes the g++ build
19:00 dukeleto perhaps the solution to smolder is to host it ourselves somewhere
19:01 nwellnhof dukeleto: is there a way to get certain branches tested on the test farm?
19:04 dukeleto nwellnhof: yes
19:04 nwellnhof how?
19:04 dukeleto nwellnhof: you ask me and I make it happen
19:04 mikehh left #parrot
19:04 nwellnhof sounds good
19:05 nwellnhof nwellnhof/platform_src could need testing on any non-standard platforms.
19:06 Coke (host it ourselves) - if it's on the parrot VM at osuosl, we pretty much have root.
19:06 dukeleto Coke: well then. We need a volunteer to take charge of fixing our smolder instance, then
19:06 whiteknight What might be nice to have is a central metadata location where we can set configuration details which the various smoke bots read from
19:07 Coke er, actual root, as "sudo bash" WFM.
19:07 whiteknight so we can specify that we want to see certain tests, or certain branches, or certain extension software (on top of certain branches)
19:07 Coke (volunteer) I will add it to my list of things to think about volunteering for when time permits.
19:07 Coke ;)
19:11 dukeleto whiteknight: i like that idea
19:11 dukeleto whiteknight: perhaps a YAML file in a repo that lists branches to test ?
19:12 whiteknight dukeleto: Right. We can specify the branch or a list of branches, configure flags, compiler, and other stuff (build/test nqp or rakudo, for instance)
19:15 dukeleto looks like I fixed the g++ build failure
19:15 dukeleto what sucks about our smoker/smolder : build failures don't get reported
19:16 dukeleto maybe I should have some email trigger when a build fails
19:16 dukeleto actually, i've solved this problem already
19:16 dukeleto that is what jitterbug does
19:19 cotto_work looks like the Russian (?) readme translation messes up init::manifest
19:22 whiteknight bulgarian
19:23 tadzik dukeleto: pong
19:23 whiteknight we can rename it with the three-letter iso code. Looks like BGR
19:24 dukeleto cotto_work: yeah, i noticed that
19:24 dukeleto whiteknight: sounds good to me
19:25 cotto_work whiteknight: +1
19:27 whiteknight it's going to take me a few minutes to make any changes
19:31 vmspb joined #parrot
19:34 dukeleto whiteknight: no rush
19:44 Coke (build failure) that's why we need taptinder.
19:44 Coke (having one thing that did both would be nice, but having one thing for each is just peachy)
19:45 Coke did we have anyone review the .bg translations?
19:45 whiteknight a buildbot that emailed the parrot-dev on build failure would be great
19:45 whiteknight .bg translations?
19:45 Coke .bg = bulgaria
19:45 whiteknight I don't know if anybody reviewed it, no
19:46 dukeleto whiteknight: that is what jitterbug does
19:46 cotto_work whiteknight: I'm pretty sure nobody did.
19:47 whiteknight and nobody would have ever reviewed it either, it if were squirreled away in some branch
19:47 cotto_work If we can't find someone to review it, we should delete it.
19:47 cotto_work though a review would be preferable
19:47 whiteknight I'm in favor of that idea. I only wanted to keep the translations in one place
19:48 ambs joined #parrot
19:50 Andy joined #parrot
19:53 hercynium joined #parrot
19:54 mtk left #parrot
19:59 ambs left #parrot
20:03 dukeleto Let's keep the translations around and ask for help. If we get totally ignored, then we can delete them.
20:03 dukeleto whiteknight: which language translations need reviews?
20:03 cotto_work dukeleto: exactky
20:04 whiteknight I think french was reviewed
20:04 cotto_work *exactly
20:04 dukeleto whiteknight: yes, i think fperrad did that
20:04 tobias_tud joined #parrot
20:04 whiteknight I think the portugese one and the spanish ones were reviewed
20:05 cotto_work We need to keep better track of that.
20:05 cotto_work add "reviewed by X" at the bottom or something
20:06 whiteknight installing TAP::Harness::Archive is such a damn headache
20:07 dukeleto whiteknight: can you create TTs for each translation that needs to be reviewed?
20:07 dukeleto whiteknight: can we remove that dep, please?
20:07 whiteknight I'll look into it
20:07 KatrinaTheLamia left #parrot
20:07 whiteknight dukeleto: I would be happy if that dep were removed, but what are we going to replace it with?
20:07 whiteknight we can't just break smolder
20:07 dukeleto whiteknight: distutils knows how to post to smolder, without TAP::Harness::Archive
20:08 dukeleto whiteknight: distutils uses fperrad's PIR harness, which has a --archive option
20:08 whiteknight dukeleto: Right, so we're going to use a parrot-based utility to post parrot's build and test reports?
20:08 dukeleto whiteknight: i hear what you are thinking
20:08 whiteknight if Parrot fails to build, or is so buggy that it doesn't run tests, we're not going to get any reports
20:08 dukeleto whiteknight: if parrot fails to build, can't submit smoke
20:09 whiteknight in those cases, I guess we could use curl or something to post an alert somewhere
20:09 dukeleto whiteknight: we can fall back to Perl when Parrot doesn't build
20:09 cotto_work That can work if we use a known-good installed Parrot to test the version under test.
20:09 dukeleto whiteknight: it would at least allow people without TAP::Harness::Archive to submit test reports
20:09 dukeleto whiteknight: as long as the build worked
20:10 dukeleto whiteknight: if the build failed, you can't submit a smoke report anyway
20:10 dukeleto whiteknight: know what I am sayin' ?
20:10 whiteknight okay
20:10 dukeleto we need some volunteers
20:11 dukeleto these are good projects for people who want to get to know our test/build subsystems
20:11 dukeleto whiteknight: you are busy with packfile stuff and the new embed api and probably 7 other branches
20:11 dukeleto we need to delegate some of this stuff
20:11 atrodo delegate++
20:12 * dukeleto has a pile of parrot-related projects so high that it has it's own weather patterns
20:13 Coke installing TAP::Harness:Archive is not a major hurdle, IMO.
20:13 Coke (cpanm, done.)
20:13 whiteknight Coke: I've been working at it for ~30 minutes now
20:14 dukeleto whiteknight: you need local::lib and App::cpanminus
20:14 Coke whiteknight: do you have cpanm?
20:14 whiteknight dukeleto: It would take me forever to even get those thigns
20:14 whiteknight Coke: I doubt it
20:14 Coke dukeleto: I use perlbrew, but that works too.
20:14 dukeleto Coke: i agree with you for people like us, but for the average user who doesn't know about local::lib and App::cpanminus, installing CPAN modules is a pain
20:15 * Coke types "cpanm TAP::Harness:Archive", and it all JW.
20:15 * whiteknight <-- average user
20:15 dukeleto whiteknight: cpanminus --installdeps . # install all perl deps that the current directory needs
20:15 dukeleto whiteknight: cpanm, actually
20:15 dukeleto it is called cpanminus, the binary is called cpanm
20:16 whiteknight dukeleto: if I have or can get cpanminus, that sounds great
20:16 Coke it's just cpan with smarter defaults.
20:16 dukeleto whiteknight: http://cpanmin.us
20:16 dukeleto whiteknight: https://github.com/miyagawa​/cpanminus/raw/master/cpanm
20:16 Coke OOC, what is taking you so long? is it answering the questions about dependencies?
20:16 dukeleto whiteknight: wget that file and chmod +x and you are ready to rock
20:17 dukeleto cpanm is about 50 times faster than CPAN.pm or CPANPLUS
20:17 dukeleto because it doesn't read CPAN indexes
20:17 whiteknight I tried to install TAP::Harness::Archive, and it gets all the way to the end before it tells me that I need Module::Builder
20:17 dukeleto whiteknight: install cpanminus and let it do all the work
20:17 whiteknight so I "install Module::Builder" and that takes forever. But there are problems with the lockfile
20:17 whiteknight so I have to exit cpan, fix some lockfile crap, go back into cpan, try to install Module::Builder again
20:18 dukeleto Coke: this is what happens for the average person. I know because my coworkers run into the same problems and don't know what to do.
20:18 whiteknight and some of the modules are failing tests. So I have to go back and either force install them, or try and diagnose. and I am bad at diagnosing perl problems
20:18 dukeleto whiteknight: you can also force an install without testing
20:18 dukeleto whiteknight: which is a lot faster :)
20:19 dukeleto cpanm -nf Foo # force install Foo and don't run tests
20:19 whiteknight I don't have cpanm
20:20 dukeleto whiteknight: cpan -f
20:20 dukeleto whiteknight: cpan has -f as well
20:20 whiteknight I'm in the middle of the install right now. If it breaks and I have to exit again for some reason I'll do that
20:20 dukeleto Coke: as you can see, TAP::Harness::Archive is a huge hurdle
20:21 dukeleto Coke: it has stopped me from submitting smoke reports on various machines, because i didn't have root/local::lib/cpanm/etc installed and wasn't worth the frustration
20:21 dukeleto Coke: and I am a pretty stubborn dude
20:21 whiteknight how many damn dependencies does Module::Builder have?
20:21 whiteknight holy crapamoly
20:21 whiteknight why the hell do I need to install IPC::Whatevers to build a module?
20:22 dukeleto whiteknight: what's that? You *DIDN'T* want to install half of CPAN?
20:22 tadzik Module::Build for Perl 6 has only one dep :)
20:22 dukeleto tadzik: there you are!
20:22 whiteknight and why doesn't TAP::Harness::Archive list Module::Builder as a prerequisite so it just installs automatically when it's needed
20:22 dukeleto whiteknight: it is a dep of a dep
20:22 dukeleto whiteknight: so it is listed, because THA needs it
20:22 tadzik dukeleto: told ya :)
20:23 tadzik 2023        @tadzik | dukeleto: pong
20:23 mtk joined #parrot
20:24 whiteknight back in school we used to make jokes about Java programmers, and how all they did was include a million pre-made modules and just stitch them together in basic ways
20:24 whiteknight installing TAP::Harness::Archive here is giving me a little bit of nostalgia
20:24 whiteknight and heartburn
20:25 dukeleto whiteknight: point well taken. You might want to avert your eyes from Moose::* ...
20:25 whiteknight so far it looks like Moose hasn't ended up on the dependency list
20:26 dukeleto whiteknight: that is because there would have been bloodshed
20:26 whiteknight !!! Module::Build finished installing!
20:26 dukeleto tadzik: we would like the ability to submit smoke reports without needing TAP::Harness::Archive
20:26 whiteknight "Too early to specify a build action 'Build'. Do 'Build Build' instead
20:27 whiteknight I can't make crap like this up
20:27 dukeleto tadzik: are you interested in working on that?
20:27 tadzik dukeleto: how urgent is that?
20:27 whiteknight Build Build?
20:27 dukeleto whiteknight: i know some people that attempted to fix Module::Build and then went insane
20:27 dukeleto tadzik: don't know, what scale of urgency are we using?
20:27 dukeleto tadzik: i am just trying something that you would enjoy working on
20:28 sjn left #parrot
20:28 whiteknight 30 minutes in and "make had returned bad status, install seems impossible"
20:28 whiteknight FUUUUUUUUUUU
20:28 dukeleto tadzik: cotto, whiteknight and I have been brainstorming ideas that we think are important and trying to delegate, so we don't get sidetracked from other stuff
20:28 dukeleto whiteknight: have you learned yet? Go the way of cpanminus
20:28 dukeleto It is a happy way.
20:28 whiteknight how do I get cpanminus?
20:29 dukeleto tadzik: deprecations as data (TT#1888) is also pretty important
20:29 dukeleto whiteknight: i just told you a few lines above!
20:29 dukeleto whiteknight: wget https://github.com/miyagawa​/cpanminus/raw/master/cpanm
20:29 atrodo whiteknight> "curl -L http://cpanmin.us | perl - --self-upgrade"
20:29 dukeleto or that
20:29 dukeleto or 17 other ways people have cooked up
20:29 atrodo dukeleto> Oh, they came up with a new way, cool
20:30 dukeleto tadzik: what things do you have on your hacking plate?
20:35 tadzik dukeleto: suprisingly few, but that's because my finals are approaching
20:35 whiteknight cpanm bailed out installing TAP::Harness::Archive. I'm retrying with --force
20:35 whiteknight ...it bailed out even worse with --force
20:35 whiteknight damnit
20:35 tadzik next week I have 4 exams and 2 labs, and the exam session haven't yet startesd
20:38 ok22 joined #parrot
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20:39 atrodo whiteknight> What error are you getting?
20:40 whiteknight Bailing out the installation for IO-Compress-2.033. Retry with --prompt or --force
20:40 whiteknight in the log, I'm seeing more details
20:41 whiteknight cc: Zlib.o: No such file or directory
20:41 whiteknight (and repeats that for several files)
20:43 whiteknight screw it. I give up.
20:45 whiteknight no smolder reports on this platform
20:45 tadzik dukeleto: how time-costing is that?
20:46 tadzik dukeleto: #1888 seems nice
20:47 dukeleto whiteknight: your zlib might be borked
20:47 dukeleto whiteknight: or at least not findable
20:47 dukeleto tadzik: the first iteration shouldn't take much time
20:48 dukeleto tadzik: we just need a datastructure that represents our deprecation data
20:48 tadzik so specifying a JSON format?
20:48 dukeleto tadzik: and we need a one-time script to convert our current DEPRECATION.pod
20:48 tadzik to the new format, right?
20:48 dukeleto tadzik: in the TT I say YAML, but I don't care. They are interchangeable
20:48 dukeleto tadzik: yes
20:49 tadzik a'right
20:49 dukeleto tadzik: the script can even be an 80% solution, and then you can fix it up manually
20:49 dukeleto tadzik: whatever gets us structured deprecation data sooner
20:49 tadzik so specifying a format is the first step. I'll look at DEPRECATION.pod and seek for a must-have things, then consult it with you
20:49 dukeleto tadzik: i would say structured deprecation data is more important that dealing with TAP::Harness::Archive
20:49 tadzik sure thing
20:49 dukeleto tadzik: sounds awesome!
20:50 dukeleto tadzik: feel free to do stuff and ask questions later :)
20:50 dukeleto tadzik: but let me know if you get stuck
20:50 tadzik oh, I still have to write a page for plumage
20:50 dukeleto tadzik: deprecated.json will be similar to the json that plumage stores about each project
20:50 tadzik I volunteered for that on #ps, is it higher-lowel priority?
20:50 dukeleto tadzik: but each item will be about a deprecation instead of a project
20:50 tadzik dukeleto: in what sense?
20:51 tadzik yeah, that's it
20:51 dukeleto tadzik: just in a general sense of structured json data
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20:51 dukeleto tadzik: i would say create the page first, since you volunteered for that first, and that shouldn't take very long
20:51 dukeleto tadzik: just 5 lines on GettingStartedWithPlumage is a lot more than what we have : 0 lines
20:51 tadzik alright, lemme organize myself a bit
20:52 * dukeleto goes for a brisk run
20:52 ok22 joined #parrot
20:52 tadzik btw, wouldn't that page be a sort of README info duplication?
20:54 whiteknight tadzik: maybe
20:56 dalek parrot: f832d2d | plobsing++ | DEPRECATED.pod:
20:56 dalek parrot: add deprecation notices for TTs 1868 and 1961
20:56 dalek parrot: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/f832d2db66
20:57 tobias_tud left #parrot
20:58 dalek TT #1961 created by plobsing++: [DEPRECATED] X-to-Y native pbcs
20:58 dalek TT #1961: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/ticket/1961
21:04 plobsing left #parrot
21:09 whiteknight plobsing++
21:12 tadzik how do I create a new wiki page?
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21:13 cotto_work tadzik: just use the title of one that doesn't exist
21:14 cotto_work http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/​wiki/GettingStartedWithPlumage
21:19 jnthn Anyone got recent experiences of subclassing the Sub PMC (in C, just as another PMC, not a HLL subclass)?
21:20 jnthn Should it work out OK?
21:20 jnthn And are there performance consequences vs Sub itself?
21:20 dalek parrot: 193b47f | nwellnhof++ | src/nci/libffi.c:
21:20 dalek parrot: Fix headerizer warnings in src/nci/libffi.c
21:20 dalek parrot:
21:20 dalek parrot: Should fix TT #1942
21:20 dalek parrot: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/193b47ff7a
21:21 cotto_work jnthn: Coroutine extends Sub in C
21:21 cotto_work seems to be tolerably well-tested
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21:23 jnthn cotto_work: OK
21:23 jnthn ooh.
21:23 jnthn If I override this I can also change the auto-close semantics in my subclass. Win.
21:23 jnthn Though my immediate motivation is I need some extra slots to stick stuff in when porting the multi-dispatch stuff from nqpclr.
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21:26 davidfetter_ is now known as davidfetter
21:28 jnthn What's the best way to say that I want all subs in a given compilation unit to be compiled to my custom Sub subclass?
21:28 plobsing joined #parrot
21:28 jnthn It's NQP so I don't know that I have a HLL ID...
21:29 jnthn Since it just lives in the parrot "language"
21:30 mtk left #parrot
21:30 cotto_work jnthn: have you considered resorting to evil?
21:30 jnthn cotto_work: What's the best kind of evil? :)
21:30 jnthn I can imagine doing something in a :immediate...
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21:31 jnthn Maybe. :)
21:31 plobsing :instanceof
21:31 cotto_work messing with interp->vtables would be pretty evil
21:31 jnthn Oh, it exists still?
21:31 Coke jnthn: do you have an HLL?
21:31 jnthn Coke: Not in this case; it's NQP
21:32 Coke ah. I would expect that an hll mapping of Sub should be preferentially used when compiling.
21:32 jnthn Which lives in the Parrot HLL
21:32 jnthn Yeah
21:32 plobsing you should flag all subs you want as a subclass :instanceof('MySub')
21:32 cotto_work plobsing: nice.  That's way less evil.
21:32 Coke mm.
21:32 jnthn Oh, that'd be ideal. :)
21:32 jnthn I'll try it that way. Thanks.
21:33 plobsing reading imcc.l pays off from time to time
21:33 Coke ISTR pmichaud had needed that at one point.
21:33 cotto_work plobsing: is it even tested?
21:33 tadzik cotto_work: that's why I tried, getting Page GettingStartedWithPlumage not found
21:33 cotto_work tadzik: what's your trac account?
21:34 tadzik cotto_work: tadzik, I believe
21:34 tadzik logged in as tadzik
21:34 jnthn brb
21:35 cotto_work tadzik: try again
21:35 plobsing cotto_work: it isn't tested and  is documented as experimental
21:35 cotto_work double eek
21:35 tadzik cotto_work: got it, thanks
21:35 cotto_work np.  tadzik++
21:35 plobsing cotto_work: if you want to reject the default, without using the mechanism we provide for changing the defaults (hll mapping), you need to resort to such things
21:36 cotto_work plobsing: I don't mind that we have it.  I mind that it's not tested.
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21:44 cotto_work Experimental shouldn't mean "Here's a pile of untested code that essentially nobody knows about.  Have fun."
21:44 cotto_work Heh.  git blames jnthn for adding instanceof
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21:58 tadzik http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/​wiki/GettingStartedWithPlumage opinions welcome
21:59 tadzik the code snippets could be a little bit more outstangding
21:59 tadzik * outstanding
22:04 dalek tracwiki: v1 | tadzik++ | GettingStartedWithPlumage
22:04 dalek tracwiki: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/wiki/GettingS​tartedWithPlumage?version=1&amp;action=diff
22:06 dukeleto tadzik++
22:07 jnthn cotto_work: huh, I wrote it? :)
22:09 cotto_work Apparently it doesn't play well with Sub subclasses.
22:10 cotto_work at least not with Coroutine and Closure
22:10 jnthn cotto_work: Oh. :(
22:10 jnthn cotto_work: Any idea why?
22:10 jnthn I thought Closure was killed and long gone?
22:10 cotto_work I'm just reading the shred of documentation we have on it.  We also have 0 tests.
22:11 cotto_work it is.  The docs didn't get updated.
22:12 jnthn Ah, k
22:12 plobsing kjs wrote that portion of the docs over 2.5 years ago.
22:13 cotto_work I've filed a ticket to get :instanceof some tests.
22:20 cotto_work dukeleto: did you intend to change pbc_disassemble in your MANIFEST update?
22:20 cotto_work https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/59faf46d
22:21 dalek TT #1962 created by cotto++: :instanceof('Foo') is untested
22:21 dalek TT #1962: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/ticket/1962
22:22 ambs left #parrot
22:22 cotto_work plobsing: I like 1961, but that really should have been brought up on parrot-dev or #ps before you filed a ticket.
22:28 cotto_work er, deprecation ticket
22:35 bacek_at_work ~~
22:36 plobsing cotto_work: sorry, I've been a bit remiss in filing the deprecations I'd like to see in the next cycle
22:38 dukeleto cotto_work: that is what fixed the g++ build failure
22:38 dukeleto cotto_work: i meant to change it, but not in that commit
22:38 cotto_work dukeleto: ok.  That's what it looked like.
22:40 Andy left #parrot
22:40 cotto_work plobsing: np.  Just don't get as excited next time.
22:41 plobsing FWIW, I don't intend on acting on it immediately.
22:42 cotto_work Sure.  It's just nice to have the possibility open.
22:44 plobsing which is why I've entered the deprecation. if experience serves, there are still many points at which devs and users will provide feedback if they feel strongly.
22:58 plobsing left #parrot
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23:28 Coke one tactic might be to make it an RFC until you get some feedback from other devs.
23:38 whiteknight joined #parrot
23:50 whiteknight good evening, #parrot
23:56 plobsing joined #parrot
23:59 dukeleto whiteknight: wazzup

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