Camelia, the Perl 6 bug

IRC log for #parrot, 2011-02-12

Parrot | source cross referenced

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Time Nick Message
00:01 whiteknight no
00:02 whiteknight I mean, we could make it work
00:02 sorear the GC really ought to exist partly as macros
00:02 whiteknight requires some infrastructure additions
00:03 Hackbinary do people use perldoc to view the documentation?
00:03 arnsholt Yeah, I do that occasionally
00:04 lucian i see
00:04 Hackbinary do you use the linking between the documents?
00:05 arnsholt You can do that with perldoc? =)
00:06 * lucian is probably procrastinating too much about C
00:07 Hackbinary is there away to only make something appear in perldoc rendering but not others?
00:08 dukeleto Hackbinary: define "others"
00:08 Hackbinary like html
00:09 Hackbinary what I'm trying to get to work properly is interlinking between the pod documents, and I can make an HTML only section, but if people are using perldoc, then it won't show up
00:09 Hackbinary maybe text?
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00:29 dalek parrot: 8128f59 | mikehh++ | MANIFEST:
00:29 dalek parrot: re-generate MANIFEST
00:29 dalek parrot: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/8128f59f7e
00:29 dalek parrot: c325eed | mikehh++ | tools/dev/merge_pull_request.pl:
00:29 dalek parrot: fix codetest failure - cuddled else
00:29 dalek parrot: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/c325eed4e1
00:29 dalek parrot: b33f25e | mikehh++ | tools/dev/merge_pull_request.pl:
00:29 dalek parrot: fix perlcritic failure - add perl coda
00:29 dalek parrot: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/b33f25e592
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00:37 dalek parrot: 8ae0270 | cotto++ | docs/project/support_policy.pod:
00:37 dalek parrot: clarify that Parrot changes which require code to be added to HLLs also consititude a breaking change
00:37 dalek parrot: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/8ae027006b
01:06 dukeleto Hackbinary: i am not sure what the best solution is
01:09 Tene arnsholt: PAST's error handlers are certainly not optimal; I've had several ideas about improving them.
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01:14 arnsholt My own semi-fluency in PIR and PAST doesn't help either =)
01:14 Tene arnsholt: what are you working on?
01:15 arnsholt Error handling in Parrotlog
01:15 Tene Nice.
01:15 arnsholt Somewhat unfortunately, the error recovery process is actually by far the most complicated bit =)
01:16 arnsholt But I think the refactor (or perhaps reimplementation, more properly) will reduce the size of the code. Another happy side effect should be that it's actually correct, as well =)
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01:20 cotto correctness schmorecctness
01:22 cotto seen bacek
01:22 clunker3_ bacek was last seen on #parrot 10 hours, 47 minutes and 24 seconds ago, saying: night humans
01:22 aloha bacek was last seen in #perl6 9 hours 59 mins ago joining the channel.
01:22 cotto seen bacek
01:22 clunker3_ bacek was last seen on #parrot 10 hours, 48 minutes and 17 seconds ago, saying: night humans
01:22 aloha bacek was last seen in #perl6 10 hours ago joining the channel.
01:24 * dukeleto updates wiki pages that talk about DEPRECATED.pod
01:25 arnsholt Whee. Looks like it's done for now. Better, and now it's only 19% of the source as opposed to 25% before
01:29 arnsholt Ah, bollocks. Still bugged
01:30 arnsholt A stack of exception handlers and time traveling continuations makes bookkeeping a tad tricky
01:31 dalek tracwiki: v30 | dukeleto++ | ParrotDeprecations
01:31 dalek tracwiki: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/wiki/Parro​tDeprecations?version=30&action=diff
01:31 dalek tracwiki: v186 | dukeleto++ | WikiStart
01:31 dalek tracwiki: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/wiki/W​ikiStart?version=186&action=diff
01:31 dalek tracwiki: v187 | dukeleto++ | WikiStart
01:31 dalek tracwiki: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/wiki/W​ikiStart?version=187&action=diff
01:31 dalek tracwiki: v188 | dukeleto++ | WikiStart
01:31 dalek tracwiki: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/wiki/W​ikiStart?version=188&action=diff
01:31 dalek tracwiki: v8 | dukeleto++ | HowToDeprecate
01:31 dalek tracwiki: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/wiki/How​ToDeprecate?version=8&action=diff
01:31 dalek TT #1751 closed by dukeleto++: Links to DEPRECATED.pod et al
01:31 dalek TT #1751: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/ticket/1751
01:34 Hackbinary hi dukeleto, I have updated the PDD and run core sections with relative links that work for make html, a full url for github)
01:34 Hackbinary https://github.com/hackbinary/parrot/blob​/hackbinary/doc-updates/docs/glossary.pod
01:34 arnsholt Oh, I know!
01:34 Hackbinary dukeleto, could you check to make sure you're happy with it, then I'll put through a pull request
01:34 arnsholt This requires pondering.
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01:59 mikehh oops forgot to report:
01:59 mikehh All tests PASS (pre/post-config, make corevm/make coretest, smoke (#9141) fulltest) at 3_0_0-918-g8ae0270 - Ubuntu 10.10 i386 (g++-4.5)
02:05 bacek ~~
02:06 mikehh hi bacek
02:06 bacek aloha, mikehh
02:07 mikehh bacek: the powers that be decided it was too early to merge generational_gc branch, and dukeleto reverted the merge
02:08 bacek that's fine.
02:08 bacek We can merge it back
02:08 bacek after 3.3
02:08 bacek According to deprecation policy.
02:08 mikehh bacek: it needs a deprecation notice apparently
02:09 mikehh bacek: I recon we need to merge it after 3.1
02:09 bacek mikehh, no. "Policy" now is pretty clear about it. 3.3 is earliest version.
02:10 mikehh bacek: bah I want it now, we need to discuss this in #ps
02:11 kid51 bacek:  The good news is ... Parrot once again builds on Darwin/PPC with commit 77b57cc
02:11 bacek mikehh, yes, fine. I will probably miss next #ps. Got my riding test.
02:11 bacek kid51, 77b57cc is what I mentioned in ticket?
02:11 bacek kid51, or it's current master?
02:13 kid51 77b57cc is what you mentioned here:  http://trac.parrot.org/par​rot/ticket/2005#comment:2
02:14 kid51 (It also passes at current master HEAD, but of course that represents "pre-generational_gc" code.
02:15 bacek kid51, than it's good news.
02:15 cotto bacek, the current thinking is that it's worth making an exception to the deprecation policy
02:15 bacek cotto, I don't think so. There is no point to have deprecation policy with exceptions.
02:16 whiteknight blah
02:16 whiteknight our current deprecation policy is broken
02:17 mikehh whiteknight: I totally agree with that
02:17 dukeleto Hackbinary: looking now
02:17 cotto we have commit bits.  How do we fix it?
02:17 kid51 bacek:  OTOH, it seems very slow; I started 'make' at 8:38 PM here; we're only halfway thru make test
02:17 whiteknight our users have been complaining about poor GC performance for years now, and we're saying that we have a solution but we can't deliver it out of respect for our users?
02:17 whiteknight broken and stupid
02:18 bacek kid51, is it unoptimized build? Than it's doing a _lot_ of internal checks in GC.
02:19 dukeleto Hackbinary: you have broken links, such as https://github.com/hackbinary/parrot/blob/hackb​inary/doc-updates/docs/pdds/pdd00_pdd.pod.html
02:19 dukeleto We need some good benchmark data for the new GC.
02:19 dukeleto Who wants to make it happen?
02:20 kid51 bacek:  Yes, this run is without --optimize
02:20 dukeleto the md5 benchmark is a good start, but we need more
02:20 bacek dukeleto, my benchmarks was "real life programs from our 'main customer'".
02:20 bacek which is 25-40% faster with GenGC.
02:20 dukeleto bacek: you mean building rakudo ?
02:20 bacek All synthetic benchmarks was slower.
02:20 dukeleto bacek: yes, but that is a big macrobenchmark that is averaging stuff together
02:21 bacek dukeleto, "ops2c --core", "buiding rakudo" and "make specest"
02:21 dukeleto bacek: we have uneven performance effects here. We need to know which things get faster and which get slower and whether it is worth it
02:21 bacek dukeleto, lets use GC IMS. It's fastest implementation evar.
02:21 Hackbinary dukeleto, the html links won't work on github, because github is converting the pod files on-the-fly
02:22 Hackbinary so those will never work, thus the need for the separate 'github' links
02:22 dukeleto Hackbinary: email parrot-dev and see what people say
02:22 Hackbinary ok
02:22 Hackbinary will do so in the morning, it's 230 am here
02:22 Hackbinary =)
02:23 mikehh yeah I just noticed
02:23 Hackbinary :S
02:25 dukeleto bacek: i think we need some nqp-based benchmarks
02:25 bacek dukeleto, "ops2c --core" is nqp-based benchmark
02:25 dukeleto bacek: touche
02:25 bacek 40% improvements
02:26 mikehh but I have to do some work on a server in Southern California and can only really get access after 6pm there, for the resty of the weekend :-}
02:26 dukeleto bacek: does it have long-lived intergenerational PMCs?
02:29 mikehh bacek: BTW what is your "riding test"
02:29 kid51 t/compilers/opsc/02-parse-all-ops.t took 11 minutes to run
02:30 bacek dukeleto, a lot of them.
02:31 mikehh kid51: yup it seems to be the last test to finish for me in make test TEST_JOBS=4
02:31 bacek kid51, don't test performance on non-optimized builds. They a _really_ slow.
02:32 kid51 bacek: This may actually be an optimized build.  But I won't be able to double-check until that terminal is free!
02:32 bacek kid51, :)
02:33 kid51 In any event, on this small-resource box, the build speed difference between '' and ''--optimize'' never leapt out at me.
02:33 cotto kid51, you can always look at what CONFIG_ARGS is set to in your Makefile
02:33 kid51 cotto: D'oh.  Who was the guy added that to the Makefile?  Me.
02:34 dukeleto running benchmarks on a desktop machine with lots of other programs running is also a bad idea
02:34 dukeleto you need to run benchmarks at least 10x each and preferrably on a multi-CPU machine that is idle
02:35 kid51 Alright, so this is a non-optimized build.  However, in master I usually expect make and make test to take on the order of 20-25 minutes.
02:35 dukeleto Tool::Bench can do the hard work: https://github.com/notbenh/tool_bench
02:35 cotto kid51, lawl
02:35 kid51 I'm now at 57 minutes and only just now got past t/compilers/opsc/06-opsfile.t
02:36 kid51 OTOH, I know that in master, I've been getting a test failure in t/op/number.t on the --optimize build on this box
02:37 kid51 This is akin to the big slowdown we had around mid-October of last year, when I was told, "It has to get worse before it gets better."
02:38 * lucian_ is starting to like cyclone
02:38 kid51 Well, I'm not really trying to run benchmarks.
02:39 cotto I didn't like that game.  kid51, thanks for making it known that the branch is slow on your box.
02:39 kid51 I'm trying to run make and make test in exactly the same way I've been doing since December 2006.
02:40 lucian_ is now known as lucian
02:46 kid51 dukeleto++ for closing TT #1751
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02:47 dukeleto de nada
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03:06 arnsholt Damn. I'm not allowed to dynamically set the lexical context of a Sub. That's just mean :p
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03:08 dalek TT #2004 reopened by doughera++: Where did Configure.pl option '--cxx' go to?
03:08 dalek TT #2004: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/ticket/2004
03:11 arnsholt Tene: I think there's no sane fix for my problem without a patch to PCT to stop pasttype<try> from putting in pop_eh instructions. Could review/commit that?
03:22 Tene arnsholt: Only if you also include a fix for all other pct users...
03:23 Tene arnsholt: you could could make a different pasttype, or stuff some metadata in the try node
03:24 Tene arnsholt: within those constraints, you should have pmichaud review your proposal/patch
03:28 arnsholt My idea was a flag, like :isdecl for PAST::Var, that suppressed all pop_eh instructions
03:29 arnsholt Not very sophisticated, but lets the user do whatever he wants with the exception handlers
03:30 Tene hmm...
03:30 Tene I'll review a patch for you, sure
03:31 arnsholt Thanks!
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03:37 Tene posting it anywhere?
03:44 arnsholt Haven't thought that far yet. Gotta make sure the code works first =)
03:45 arnsholt But I guess git-format-patch and post to Trac? Or I could make a fork on GitHub and send pull request if that's better
03:49 dukeleto ~~
03:50 Tene arnsholt: ah; ping me on irc or email me or whatever when you get it together.
03:51 Tene I think I'm done for the evening.
03:51 mikehh All tests PASS (pre/post-config, make corevm/make coretest, smoke (#9156) fulltest) at 3_0_0-918-g8ae0270 - Ubuntu 10.10 i386 (g++-4.5 with --optimize)
03:51 Tene arnsholt: however you like. :)
03:53 * dukeleto just created a smolder project for Cardinal
03:53 dalek cardinal: 0fb55be | dukeleto++ | / (2 files):
03:53 dalek cardinal: Submit smoke reports to smolder.parrot.org
03:53 dalek cardinal: review: https://github.com/parrot/​cardinal/commit/0fb55be1ac
03:53 dukeleto and now it should submit reports to the right place
03:53 dukeleto Tene: ^^^
03:53 Hackbinary cool
03:53 Tene dukeleto: Thanks!
03:55 arnsholt Right. My minimal NQP test script gives the right results at least. Which testsuites should I run to make sure I didn't break something completely different?
03:55 Tene arnsholt: rakudo, at least.
03:56 Hackbinary I don't have access to edit trac, but could someone update http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/wiki/Languages with updated smoke reports url?
03:56 dalek TT #2004 closed by doughera++: Where did Configure.pl option '--cxx' go to?
03:56 dalek TT #2004: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/ticket/2004
03:56 dukeleto Hackbinary: what is your trac username ?
03:57 Hackbinary hackbinary ;)
03:57 dukeleto Hackbinary: ok, i will give you wiki edit perms. We had to lock it down due to spam.
03:57 Hackbinary yeah, I believe it ... damn spiced-hammers ;)
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04:01 cotto Thanks for bearing with the inconvenience.
04:03 Hackbinary who me?  no bothe
04:03 Hackbinary r
04:04 Hackbinary right ... I gotta crash .... it's way later than I meant it to be
04:04 Hackbinary talk to you tomorrow
04:05 dukeleto cotto: i can't seem to give hackbinary WIKI_EDIT in trac
04:05 dukeleto cotto: can you figure it out?
04:05 dukeleto cotto: i hate dealing with permissions on trac
04:06 dukeleto cotto: i don't have the ability to give anybody any WIKI_* perms anymore, it seems
04:07 cotto dukeleto, sure
04:09 cotto msg Hackbinary You should have a shiny new edit bit on the wiki.  Don't use it to spam unless you really feel like it.
04:09 aloha OK. I'll deliver the message.
04:11 cotto dukeleto, do you want a trac admin bit?
04:11 dukeleto cotto: i used to have one
04:11 dukeleto cotto: i don't know what happen to it
04:11 dukeleto cotto: sure, i guess
04:11 cotto you seem to have one now
04:12 dukeleto cotto+_
04:12 * dukeleto facepalms
04:12 plobsing cotto+*
04:12 dukeleto i am submitting a failing smoke report for cardinal nowishly
04:12 cotto plobsing, whatever
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04:47 mikehh rakudo (d267ba8) - builds on parrot (3_0_0-918-g8ae0270) - make test, make spectest_smolder[(#9181), roast (b3ef08d)] PASS - Ubuntu 10.10 i386 (g++-4.5 with --optimize)
04:47 mikehh 27,634 ok, 0 failed, 610 todo, 1,847 skipped and 0 unexpectedly succeeded
05:08 Tene dukeleto: I get a 404 when running rake smolder
05:08 Tene for http://smolder.parrot.org/app/publ​ic_projects/process_add_report/10
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05:17 cotto dukeleto, ping
05:22 cotto github++
05:36 mikehh docs/project/committer_guide needs updating
05:37 cotto yes it does
05:37 cotto It'll be a joy to delete much of that.
05:44 cotto mikehh, done
05:44 dalek parrot: 6d69dec | cotto++ | docs/project/committer_guide.pod:
05:44 dalek parrot: delete and update some obsolete svn workflow docs
05:44 dalek parrot: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/6d69dece76
05:44 cotto mikehh++
05:45 cotto there are still a depressing number of references to svn in the codebase
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05:55 mikehh cotto: trying to add the rest of docs/project to make html (just checkin' the results) [local branch atm]
05:55 cotto good idea
05:56 mikehh we need to see what other docs need to be added
06:05 arnsholt Tene: Got a couple of Rakudo spectest failures with my patch. Rerunning it now without the patch to make sure they don't go away
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06:56 arnsholt Tene: TT #2008
07:09 dalek TT #2008 created by arnsholt++: [PCT] Patch/feature request: No pop_eh in try PAST::Op
07:09 dalek TT #2008: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/ticket/2008
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07:49 Tene arnsholt: I'll read it eventually, but I recommend you also contact pmichaud to ask for comments on this design.
07:55 cotto +1.  pmichaud wrote that code and knows it best.  Unfortunately he's on vacation for the next 5 (iirc) days, so it'll be a while before he'll get back to you.
08:42 Tene Ahh.
08:42 Tene I'll review it for sanity tomorrow, then, so i can at least give early feedback.
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09:58 lateau Tene: broken URL modified and I want to send my patch
09:58 lateau Tene: sry. it is about Cardinal rake smolder task.
10:10 lateau Tene: I sent a patch to parrot-dev and check it when you have blank time.
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13:44 tadzik https://gist.github.com/823767 -- could someone git-strong give me a hand?
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13:52 plobsing tadzik: git checkout -b gen_gc2 origin/gen_gc2
13:52 plobsing I think that's what you want
14:02 dalek winxed: r805 | NotFound++ | trunk/winxedst (2 files):
14:02 dalek winxed: new predefs getstdin, getstdout and getstderr
14:02 dalek winxed: review: http://code.google.com/p/w​inxed/source/detail?r=805
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14:13 dalek winxed: r806 | NotFound++ | trunk/winxedst (2 files):
14:13 dalek winxed: fix mistakes from r805
14:13 dalek winxed: review: http://code.google.com/p/w​inxed/source/detail?r=806
14:14 tadzik plobsing: thanks, that was it
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14:19 lucian slavorg: awesome name
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14:56 dalek tracwiki: v149 | hackbinary++ | Languages
14:56 dalek tracwiki: Updated cardinal smoke reports link
14:56 dalek tracwiki: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/wiki/L​anguages?version=149&amp;action=diff
15:23 kid51 joined #parrot
15:30 kid51 afk
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15:49 dalek nqp: c8ce669 | jnthn++ | src/pmc/nqpmultisig.pmc:
15:49 dalek nqp: Fix a mark bug that saw some people get segfaults in multi-method dispatch situations.
15:49 dalek nqp: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/c8ce669583
16:00 dalek nqp: 5ed3fad | jnthn++ | src/metamodel/reprs/P6str.c:
16:00 dalek nqp: Fix an issue in the P6str repr spotted by sorear++.
16:00 dalek nqp: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/5ed3fad3b7
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17:09 Coke folks may be happy to know that the segfaults I was seeing appear to be gone in master.
17:13 plobsing joined #parrot
17:24 cotto I'm happy.
17:39 dalek parrot: 6742527 | mikehh++ | docs/index/developer.json:
17:39 dalek parrot: add remaining docs/project pod files to new section in developer docs
17:39 dalek parrot: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/674252746a
17:39 dalek parrot: 9dd88ad | mikehh++ | docs/project/core_inclusion.pod:
17:39 dalek parrot: fix doc so title is correct
17:39 dalek parrot: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/9dd88ada5d
17:39 dalek parrot: dc55b45 | mikehh++ | docs/project/committer_guide.pod:
17:39 dalek parrot: merge in latest master
17:39 dalek parrot: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/dc55b45d9e
17:39 dalek parrot: 63da9c3 | mikehh++ | docs/project/committer_guide.pod:
17:39 dalek parrot: change a couple of remaining refs to svn to git
17:39 dalek parrot: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/63da9c3098
17:39 dalek parrot: d76e2cc | mikehh++ | docs/project/release_manager_guide.pod:
17:39 dalek parrot: Change first heading so title is Release Manager Guide
17:39 dalek parrot: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/d76e2cc1d2
17:39 jan left #parrot
17:43 kid51 mikehh: Have you been able to take another look at the 'make html' problem? http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/ticket/1954
17:44 jan joined #parrot
17:45 mikehh kid51: a look yes, need to spend some time on it after the release
17:45 kid51 Okay.  It's non-urgent.
17:47 mikehh kid51: it is also tied up with my failed attempts on html_cleanup_2 (every time I tried to remove something, got failures - got to sort out dependencies)
17:48 kid51 Hmm.  I wasn't aware of that branch (or perhaps I've got too much gen_gc on my mind).  What is its objective?
17:48 mikehh cotto: I never got proper access to SSH into ftp-osl.osuosl.org, I have changed my keys since then as well
17:49 mikehh kid51: it was local, I never pushed it upstream as I never got it to work properly
17:51 theory joined #parrot
17:56 mikehh kid51: the objective was to remove all the stuff from the old make html especially lib/Parrot/Docs/Section/*.pm etc
17:56 kid51 Aha, I remember you mentioning that.
17:56 cotto mikehh, let's fix that now.
17:57 kid51 cotto: provided 'now' means 'after our release'
17:57 cotto ?
17:58 mikehh how can I get the ./ssh/id_s
17:58 mikehh dsa_pub key to you
17:58 kid51 cotto:  When you get a chance, can you take a glance at http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/ticket/540?
17:58 cotto mikehh, nopasting is fine.  The only thing it lets someone do is give you access to their machine.
17:58 cotto kid51, deal
17:59 kid51 Issue of long-standing, non-urgent, but two key developers w/different opinions
17:59 cotto That's a long ticket there.
17:59 kid51 long as well as long-standing, then
17:59 * cotto grabs a shovel and digs in
18:01 cotto mikehh, as long as the file has "pub" in the name, putting it on the internets is fine.
18:02 cotto anyway, I'm ready whenever you are.
18:03 nopaste "mikehh" at 192.168.1.3 pasted "~/.ssh/id_dsa_pub" (1 line) at http://nopaste.snit.ch/31480
18:05 mikehh cotto: one of the problems I have is that I have separate partitions for various versions of Ubuntu/Kubuntu with different desktop id's
18:05 cotto mikehh, is mhb-desktop your old machine?
18:06 cotto mikehh, you can copy the same public/private key between them or add different keys for the same machine.
18:06 mikehh cotto: yeah I think it was Ubuntu 9.10 amd64,
18:07 cotto ok.  I'll delete that one.
18:07 cotto mikehh, you should be able to log in to that machine now
18:08 mikehh cotto: what would I use for login?
18:08 cotto use the username parrot
18:09 mikehh cotto:
18:09 contingencyplan joined #parrot
18:09 mikehh bah hitting the wrong key again, enter instead of backspace
18:12 cotto I wonder if a ccache equivalent for parrot would make a viable gsoc project.
18:14 kid51 "viable" should include "completable in the GSOC timeframe" (IMO)
18:15 cotto of couse
18:16 cotto that does get into the problem of cache invalidation, so I suspect it's a bit deeper than one might expect
18:17 cotto mikehh, can you get to the ftp site?
18:17 mikehh cotto: seems to work for now :-}
18:18 cotto excellent
18:19 cotto do you have access to the vm to update docs.parrot.org?
18:23 lateau left #parrot
18:23 mikehh cotto: I can log in to https://www.parrot.org as Mikehh but I don't have admin access
18:25 mikehh cotto: mikehh but it displays Mikehh
18:28 nopaste "kid51" at 192.168.1.3 pasted "t/compilers/imcc/syn/errors.t: Make test pass make warnings_tests: Okay to commit?" (13 lines) at http://nopaste.snit.ch/31481
18:28 cotto ok
18:28 cotto @mikehh
18:29 cotto mikehh, I don't have an admin bit on parrot.org
18:30 cotto I think the capitalization is just drupal being wacky.
18:50 cotto dukeleto, ping
18:51 ambs left #parrot
18:54 dukeleto cotto: pong
18:55 cotto dukeleto, I'd appreciate your thoughts on https://gist.github.com/88eb00a0c2296eeb48e2 , my idea on how to build and refine the M0 spec as a team.
18:59 kid51 text wrap is a desirable thing
19:00 cotto yeah
19:00 cotto let me fix that
19:00 cotto done
19:02 kid51 new PDD++
19:02 cotto it's in the m0-spec branch
19:02 kid51 thinking about how a team will function++
19:03 kid51 mikehh: One small patch to a test for your pre-release consideration:  http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/attachment/ti​cket/1941/t_compilers_imcc_syn_errors.diff
19:03 cotto I'd be further ahead at this point if I just did it myself, but hopefully an effective way of getting more brains involved will result in a better final spec.
19:04 kid51 cotto: Are you using gist in preference to your own blog?  Perhaps something on your blog about this so that planet.parrotcode.org will pick it up.
19:05 dukeleto cotto: i likes it
19:05 cotto kid51, I'm using it to draft an email that I can also easily share with others before sending it out.
19:05 dukeleto cotto: if you could add that we are looking for ideas that are implementable in our first prototype, and not so much "pie in the sky" ideas, that would be useful, i think
19:06 dukeleto cotto: i want to put in peoples minds that open-ended opinion-discussing is not as useful as "let's try this for our first prototype"
19:06 kid51 dukeleto++ We have to dispel the feeling that Lorito is vaporware
19:06 dukeleto cotto: and make sure people know which features we know will not be part of the first prototype
19:07 dukeleto kid51: yes, exactly
19:07 kid51 afk
19:07 cotto dukeleto, good suggestions
19:10 dukeleto cotto: i want volunteers that want to help make the 1st prototype happen, not those that want to soak up lots of time debating about the color of the bikeshed
19:11 cotto dukeleto, I consider it an important part of my job to say "The bikeshed will be green.  Next topic."
19:11 rantanplan joined #parrot
19:12 cotto dukeleto, I'm going to be making a conscious effort to avoid or short-circuit those kinds of questions.
19:15 cotto updated
19:17 lucian joined #parrot
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19:17 dukeleto cotto: awesome
19:19 mikehh kid51: testing it now
19:20 lucian_ left #parrot
19:20 cotto I'll sit on it an hour, re-read and send it out then.
19:25 kid51 left #parrot
19:33 dalek parrot: b058323 | mikehh++ | t/compilers/imcc/syn/errors.t:
19:33 dalek parrot: incorporate a patch suggested by kid51++
19:33 dalek parrot: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/b058323ac0
19:33 dalek parrot: d9d7674 | dukeleto++ | docs/project/metacommitter_guide.pod:
19:33 dalek parrot: [doc] Update the metacommitter guide for a Git New World
19:33 dalek parrot: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/d9d767421f
19:49 dalek parrot: 8c179b3 | dukeleto++ | lib/Parrot/Distribution.pm:
19:49 dalek parrot: [cage] Remove dead code from Parrot::Distribution
19:49 dalek parrot: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/8c179b3b32
19:54 dalek parrot: 3b6bed1 | dukeleto++ | lib/Parrot/Harness/Smoke.pm:
19:54 dalek parrot: [docs] Clean up Parrot::Harness::Smoke docs and s/svn/git/
19:54 dalek parrot: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/3b6bed1ec4
19:54 dukeleto cotto: that is about as much s/svn/git/ cleaning as I am up for doing
19:54 dukeleto cotto: it looks like we have lots of dead perl code relating to svn
19:55 cotto I saw a bit last night but got distracted.
19:55 cotto dukeleto, I think it's what you nuked just now.
19:58 dukeleto cotto: nope, there is more
19:58 dukeleto cotto: i just made a TT
19:59 * dukeleto just learned about "git branch --no-merged"
19:59 dukeleto which will list local branches that are not reachable from HEAD
20:00 dukeleto so it shows unmerged branches
20:00 dukeleto pretty useful
20:02 dalek TT #2009 created by dukeleto++: Remove dead svn-related code from Perl modules
20:02 dalek TT #2009: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/ticket/2009
20:02 cotto We also need a ticket for the write barrier
20:03 cotto I'm not sure why I said that instead of just doing it.
20:05 dukeleto cotto: do it :)
20:05 dukeleto i just aliased "git unmerged" to "git branch --no-merged" and life is a little better.
20:06 * cotto is doing it
20:07 cotto bacek, ping
20:09 mikehh All tests PASS (pre/post-config, make corevm/make coretest, smoke (#9303) fulltest) at 3_0_0-926-gd9d7674 - Ubuntu 10.10 i386 (g++-4.5 with --optimize)
20:09 cotto bacek, unping
20:12 cotto msg bacek How beneficial might it be to add an :ro attr that prevents pmc2c from generating write barriers for a C-level METHOD?
20:12 aloha OK. I'll deliver the message.
20:27 cotto That's a tricky ticket to describe.
20:35 dalek TT #2010 created by cotto++: add write barrier to all PMCs that write in unusual VTABLE functions
20:35 dalek TT #2010: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/ticket/2010
20:35 dalek parrot: f1c998b | cotto++ | api.yaml:
20:35 dalek parrot: add proper notice for the write barrier change
20:35 dalek parrot: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/f1c998b4b6
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20:41 cotto atrodo, ping
20:43 cotto atrodo, unping
20:47 bacek_mobile joined #parrot
20:47 bacek_mobile ~~
20:47 bacek_mobile cotto, We do support :write for METHODs. Unfortunately it's not used consistently in (at least) our PMCs.
20:48 bacek_mobile I'm pretty sure, that HLLs aren't use :write properly.
20:48 cotto bacek_mobile, I know a guy with a commit bit.
20:48 bacek_mobile cotto, it will require big review of our pmcs first
20:49 bacek_mobile I didn't want to increase scope of gen_gc branch to such amount of work.
20:49 cotto Where'd those gci minions go.
20:49 cotto bacek_mobile, that's sensible.
20:50 bacek_mobile for gen_gc scope was: 1. Make it. 2. Make it correct.
20:50 cotto bacek_mobile, is you at you dot com your preferred email?
20:50 bacek_mobile cotto, yes :)
20:52 bacek_mobile cotto, you can create ticket similar to #2010 for properly mark METHODs with :write pragma.
20:54 cotto bacek_mobile, do you think it's worthwhile?
20:54 bacek_mobile cotto, yes.
20:54 cotto I was thinking a :ro pragma would be easier.
20:54 Util dukeleto: ping
20:55 bacek_mobile cotto: :ro is same is !:write.
20:55 bacek_mobile and we already have :write
20:55 cotto yes, but it's a question of blacklisting vs whitelisting
20:55 bacek_mobile check src/dynpmc/rotest
20:56 bacek_mobile afaik, most of the methods are ro.
20:56 bacek_mobile at least in our code.
20:57 cotto for some it depends on the arguments
20:58 bacek_mobile I'm not sure that pmc2c support multiple pragmas for methods.
20:58 bacek_mobile and anyway, :ro isn't correct pragma for this purpose
20:59 cotto looks like it parses them, at lesat
20:59 bacek_mobile something like :immutable is better choice
20:59 cotto *least
20:59 cotto I'll let the guy who commits pain that bikeshed.
20:59 cotto *paint
21:00 Util cotto: I might like that version better that "paint". :)
21:17 mikehh rakudo (f4ec358) - builds on parrot (3_0_0-928-g3b6bed1) - make test, make spectest_smolder[(#9312), roast (051af06)] PASS - Ubuntu 10.10 i386 (g++-4.5 with --optimize)
21:17 mikehh 27,634 ok, 0 failed, 610 todo, 1,841 skipped and 0 unexpectedly succeeded
21:17 * Util is afk; wrestling with a fallen tree.
21:18 cotto Util, get it in a headlock.  That's their secret weakness.
21:21 dalek parrot/m0-spec: 685db46 | cotto++ | docs/pdds/draft/pdd32_m0.pod:
21:21 dalek parrot/m0-spec: add a section on objects
21:21 dalek parrot/m0-spec: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/685db46077
21:21 dalek parrot/m0-spec: 0b91df4 | cotto++ | docs/pdds/draft/pdd32_m0.pod:
21:21 dalek parrot/m0-spec: add status and some milestones
21:21 dalek parrot/m0-spec: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/0b91df4b8d
21:28 mikehh winxed (906)  - builds on parrot (3_0_0-928-g3b6bed1) - make test/test1/test2 PASS - some examples ok tried fly, opengl and others.
21:29 mikehh sorry that should be 806
21:31 cotto atrodo, ping
21:33 cotto atrodo, unping
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21:45 perlite_ is now known as perlite
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22:14 dalek parrot: f7d6c26 | cotto++ | src/pmc/packfileannotations.pmc:
22:14 dalek parrot: remove a couple unused variables, fixing CID 1288
22:14 dalek parrot: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/f7d6c26c45
22:30 plobsing left #parrot
22:44 dukeleto ooooh, the GCC Compile Farm just got a netbsd 5.1 machine
23:07 plobsing joined #parrot
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23:29 dalek nqp: d6338b2 | jnthn++ | src/NQP/Actions.pm:
23:29 dalek nqp: Toss 'is pirflags' and add 'is vtable'. Calls method on the meta-object, though none implement it yet. Eventually this allows overriding of some Parrot v-table methods again when using 6model, which we'll need for other Parrot bits to interop with languages using 6model.
23:29 dalek nqp: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/d6338b268b
23:29 dalek nqp: a022547 | jnthn++ | t/nqp/52-vtable.t:
23:29 dalek nqp: Update test file to use is parrot_vtable rather than is pirflags. Still doesn't pass again yet, though.
23:29 dalek nqp: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/a022547b1e
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23:58 dukeleto anybody know anything about NanoJIT? http://www.bluishcoder.co.nz/200​9/05/simple-nanojit-example.html
23:58 dukeleto Nanojit is a small, cross-platform C++ library that emits machine code. Both the Tamarin JIT and the SpiderMonkey JIT (a.k.a. TraceMonkey) use Nanojit as their back end.
23:59 dukeleto might be a good place to learn from for our JIT

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