Camelia, the Perl 6 bug

IRC log for #parrot, 2011-03-17

Parrot | source cross referenced

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:04 whiteknight plobsing: unping
00:08 plobsing whiteknight: unpong then
00:09 whiteknight sorry, I was trying to find out how to mark a PackFile*. I figured out that I had to write a new function forit
00:10 plobsing there is a function that marks all the GCable junk the current interp's packfiles. I'd factor the marking stuff from there.
00:10 plobsing s/factor/factor out/
00:10 whiteknight that's what I did
00:10 whiteknight mark_const_subs -> Parrot_pf_mark_packfile(PARROT_INTERP, PackFile*pf)
00:11 plobsing it does a lot more than marking const subs though. much better name.
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00:14 dalek parrot/whiteknight/imcc_compreg_pmc: d82abdc | Whiteknight++ | / (6 files):
00:14 dalek parrot/whiteknight/imcc_compreg_pmc: Implement a new Parrot_pf_mark_packfile to mark an arbitrary packfile. Delete mark_const_subs, which only marked the ->initial_pf and was named poorly. IMCC now outputs a PtrObj PMC instead of an UnManagedStruct
00:14 dalek parrot/whiteknight/imcc_compreg_pmc: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/d82abdc46c
00:14 whiteknight plobsing: can you take a look at that last commit and make sure what I added, especially with the PtrObj is sane?
00:18 plobsing whiteknight: looks to be good
00:18 whiteknight awesome
00:19 plobsing have you figured out your nci_thunks problem yet?
00:20 whiteknight what nci_thunks problem?
00:20 whiteknight I have so many problems it's hard to keep track
00:20 plobsing the one you got executing that program during the build
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00:21 whiteknight I have no idea, to be honest with you
00:21 whiteknight if I can't remember, it's probable that I haven't had a problem in a while
00:22 plobsing OK. awesome.
00:25 dalek parrot/whiteknight/imcc_compreg_pmc: 713860f | Whiteknight++ | / (24 files):
00:25 dalek parrot/whiteknight/imcc_compreg_pmc: fix merge, it looks like just some param decorations. Go with whatever master uses
00:25 dalek parrot/whiteknight/imcc_compreg_pmc: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/713860fa48
00:26 whiteknight ...and that's all the effort I am spending on this issue tonight
00:31 plobsing whiteknight: sorry to bug you about this, but I just thought of it. you shouldn't use SETATTR* for PtrObj attributes. use the custom macros PTROBJ_SET_*.
00:31 whiteknight oh, I see that
00:31 whiteknight oay
00:32 whiteknight okay
00:32 whiteknight thaks
00:32 whiteknight ....stupid fingers tonight
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00:36 whiteknight FFFFFUUUUUUU
00:36 whiteknight after all this, removing the hackjob from TT #1990 causes parrot to segfault
00:37 plobsing lolwhut?
00:37 dalek parrot/whiteknight/imcc_compreg_pmc: 7960354 | Whiteknight++ | compilers/imcc/main.c:
00:37 dalek parrot/whiteknight/imcc_compreg_pmc: use the correct macro for setting the mark function on PtrObj. plobsing++ for pointing this out
00:37 dalek parrot/whiteknight/imcc_compreg_pmc: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/7960354796
00:39 plobsing try pinning the PMC?
00:40 whiteknight I don't even know what the problem is. I'll need to dig through it tomorrow
00:57 whiteknight reading bacek's blog posts is making me remarkably happy
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00:57 bacek_at_work whiteknight, glad to hear it :)
01:03 whiteknight okay, I need to go to bed now
01:03 whiteknight goodnight
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01:20 cotto ~~
01:22 bacek_at_work ENOMATCH
01:24 * cotto is matchless
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02:43 dukeleto ~~
02:43 * dukeleto had the pleasure of buying kid51++ a few beer tonight and talking about parrot stuff
02:43 dukeleto bacek_at_work: i didn't know that magic coding robots could wrote blog posts ;)
02:43 dukeleto s/wrote/write/
02:49 dukeleto bacek_at_work: it is very nice to see an explanation of the opsc stuff you have been hacking on
02:59 * dukeleto hears crickets
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03:27 dukeleto ShaneC: howdy
03:39 ShaneC good evening
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03:53 dalek parrot-embed: 0e28feb | dukeleto++ | Build.PL:
03:53 dalek parrot-embed: Make 'perl Build.PL' work outside of the Parrot source tree
03:53 dalek parrot-embed: review: https://github.com/parrot/pa​rrot-embed/commit/0e28feb392
04:01 dalek parrot-embed: 30bbf19 | dukeleto++ | .gitignore:
04:01 dalek parrot-embed: Add a .gitignore
04:01 dalek parrot-embed: review: https://github.com/parrot/pa​rrot-embed/commit/30bbf19994
04:19 cotto bacek++ for those.  I like reading them too.
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04:26 cotto dukeleto, ping
04:26 dukeleto cotto: pong
04:27 cotto dukeleto, do you know when oscon will accept or reject talks?
04:27 cotto waiting is lta
04:29 dukeleto cotto: no clue. they do what they will
04:29 cotto guess so
04:30 dukeleto cotto: i hung out with kid51++ tonight and talked about parrot stuff
04:30 cotto awesome
04:30 dukeleto cotto: also, i created the parrot-embed repo
04:30 cotto what thunk he?
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04:32 cotto dukeleto, how'd it go?
04:36 dukeleto cotto: it was fun
04:37 dukeleto cotto: we talked about planning various parrot hackathons for some confs this year
04:37 cotto I'm looking forward to those.
04:43 dukeleto cotto: what are you hacking on nowishly?
04:44 dukeleto cotto: we need to get serious about making the M0 prototype
04:45 cotto dukeleto, figuring out if/how plobsing and bacek's suggestions about ffi can be used
04:46 cotto I'm glad they were brought up.  I'd forgotten to think about a C-emitting interp.
04:46 cotto er, compiler
04:46 cotto er, code-generation backend
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04:54 cotto dukeleto, do you have any thoughts on that?
04:57 cotto it's also easier to generate thunks, since the amount of storage needed for the arguments will be knowable at parse-time
04:57 cotto the idea is that if creating a call (static thunk, generated thunk, function call, etc) looks like gen_call $P0, [INT32, INT32, $I0, INT32, $I1], a backend that generates c will have an easier time generating code for that.
04:57 cotto (reverse those last two sends)
04:58 dukeleto cotto: i will think about.
04:58 * dukeleto needs sleep
04:59 cotto dukeleto, 'night
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08:17 tadzik hello
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11:22 mikehh All tests PASS (pre/post-config, make corevm/make coretest, smoke (#12473) fulltest) at 3_2_0-2-g1868a49 - Ubuntu 10.10 i386 (g++-4.5)
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12:30 Coke bacek_at_work: t'weren't nuthin.
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12:37 whiteknight good morning, #parrot
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12:51 whiteknight msg NotFound Can winxed have a syntax to add properties (setprop) on class and method PMCs?
12:51 aloha OK. I'll deliver the message.
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13:30 dukeleto ~~
13:41 whiteknight good morning, duke
13:42 dalek parrot: 4e9e576 | mikehh++ | src/gc/api.c:
13:42 dalek parrot: add default to supress compiler warning and update documentation
13:42 dalek parrot: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/4e9e576a67
13:43 mikehh was trying to do the same to src/pmc/structview.pmc but having a few problems there
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13:49 dukeleto whiteknight: mornin' !
13:51 dukeleto whiteknight: what hacketh you on this morn?
13:52 atrodo dukeleto> I assume your still out east?
13:52 dukeleto atrodo: yep, until tomorrow
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13:56 dukeleto Parrot::Embed needs some love
13:57 dukeleto I looked at the Build.PL for it and shook my head
14:06 whiteknight I was looking at Parrot::Embed a while ago. It's so bad I was honestly considering learning XS so I could rewrite it from scratch
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14:14 dukeleto whiteknight: good lord
14:14 dukeleto whiteknight: don't learn XS, please
14:14 dukeleto whiteknight: i will shield you from the horrors
14:14 dukeleto whiteknight: i am already a lost cause (I know XS) so I will fix Parrot::Embed
14:15 dukeleto whiteknight: the whole point of Parrot is so that people don't need to learn or maintain XS code
14:16 dukeleto whiteknight: every time you think "I hate PIR", take a look at some XS code, that should make you feel better :)
14:16 dukeleto whiteknight: mostly, the Parrot::Embed build system is crappy. I didn't even look at the XS yet
14:17 dalek Rosella: b89bcc3 | Whiteknight++ | src/ (5 files):
14:17 dalek Rosella: Update some error message routines. Update Action library to be more robust about error handling
14:17 dalek Rosella: review: https://github.com/Whiteknig​ht/Rosella/commit/b89bcc3970
14:17 dalek Rosella: 353da15 | Whiteknight++ | src/co (8 files):
14:17 dalek Rosella: some improved error handling in the container library
14:17 dalek Rosella: review: https://github.com/Whiteknig​ht/Rosella/commit/353da155cd
14:17 dalek Rosella: cf7a285 | Whiteknight++ | src/ (2 files):
14:17 dalek Rosella: cleanups in Container. fix a bug in Action
14:17 dalek Rosella: review: https://github.com/Whiteknig​ht/Rosella/commit/cf7a285f59
14:17 dalek Rosella: 8d9aa84 | Whiteknight++ | README.md:
14:17 dalek Rosella: update README with a section welcoming contributions and a section telling about the public API. If a function is marked as being not for external use, don't use it.
14:17 dalek Rosella: review: https://github.com/Whiteknig​ht/Rosella/commit/8d9aa8425c
14:17 dukeleto whiteknight: is your plan to make PLA and friends use Rosella in their test suites ?
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14:23 whiteknight dukeleto:  PLA already uses Rosella for the test suite
14:24 dukeleto whiteknight: i figured :)
14:24 whiteknight dukeleto: I recommend everybody use it :)
14:24 dukeleto whiteknight: i may want to use it in the PL/Parrot test suite
14:25 * dukeleto takes PLA for a spin
14:25 whiteknight the PLA test suite may be a little broken right now, I was working on the upgrade
14:26 whiteknight I don't remember where I left off
14:27 dukeleto whiteknight: https://github.com/Whiteknight/​parrot-linear-algebra/issues/30
14:27 dukeleto whiteknight: the rosella harness can't be found
14:27 whiteknight is that an issue you are seeing?
14:28 dukeleto whiteknight: yep
14:28 whiteknight and you have Rosella installed?
14:28 dukeleto whiteknight: nope :)
14:28 * dukeleto installs Rosella
14:29 dukeleto and it looks like I need winxed to compile Rosella...
14:29 * dukeleto falls down a yak hole
14:29 whiteknight heh
14:29 whiteknight when I put out the first release, I will include the .pir in the tarball
14:31 dukeleto whiteknight: works for me
14:31 whiteknight awesome
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14:33 dalek Rosella/gh-pages: 1dbcc31 | Whiteknight++ | index. (2 files):
14:33 dalek Rosella/gh-pages: index.html -> index.md
14:33 dalek Rosella/gh-pages: review: https://github.com/Whiteknig​ht/Rosella/commit/1dbcc3107e
14:33 dalek Rosella/gh-pages: 8c02305 | Whiteknight++ | / (2 files):
14:33 dalek Rosella/gh-pages: add supporting files
14:33 dalek Rosella/gh-pages: '
14:33 dalek Rosella/gh-pages: review: https://github.com/Whiteknig​ht/Rosella/commit/8c023053b9
14:45 dalek Rosella/gh-pages: 1b968f4 | Whiteknight++ | / (3 files):
14:45 dalek Rosella/gh-pages: list libraries in the page header
14:45 dalek Rosella/gh-pages: review: https://github.com/Whiteknig​ht/Rosella/commit/1b968f434c
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15:26 cotto_work ~~
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15:35 dukeleto cotto_work: top of the mornin'
15:49 NotFound ~~
15:49 whiteknight Hello Notfound
15:50 dukeleto NotFound: i am trying to compile winxed
15:50 NotFound whiteknight: syntax for setprop? Never thought about that,
15:50 dukeleto NotFound: error:imcc:The opcode 'concat_s_s' (concat<2>) was not found. Check the type and number of the arguments
15:50 dukeleto NotFound: does winxed need Parrot 3.0.0 ?
15:50 NotFound dukeleto: Don't try. Do it, young Jedi.
15:50 dukeleto NotFound: yes, I am doing but it is failing :)
15:51 whiteknight NotFound: I'm thinking about doing attribute-based programming stuff. So I want to be able to attach metadata to methods and classes at compile time
15:51 whiteknight NotFound: it's not a big deal, but would be nice
15:51 dukeleto NotFound: i am trying to compile it against parrot master
15:51 NotFound dukeleto: What winxed version?
15:51 dukeleto NotFound: winxed master
15:53 NotFound Last time I see such error should be a year ago.
15:53 Coke should be a simple update to concat_s_s_s
15:53 dalek Rosella/gh-pages: c6181d5 | Whiteknight++ | stylesheets/rosella.css:
15:53 dalek Rosella/gh-pages: fix header a little bit
15:53 dalek Rosella/gh-pages: review: https://github.com/Whiteknig​ht/Rosella/commit/c6181d53cd
15:53 dalek Rosella/gh-pages: bab66ef | Whiteknight++ | / (2 files):
15:53 dalek Rosella/gh-pages: more fixes
15:53 dalek Rosella/gh-pages: review: https://github.com/Whiteknig​ht/Rosella/commit/bab66ef1d1
15:53 dalek Rosella/gh-pages: 2e5f780 | Whiteknight++ | libraries/ (7 files):
15:53 dalek Rosella/gh-pages: start adding in documentation webpages for the various libraries. Only the core documentation is filled in at all
15:53 dalek Rosella/gh-pages: review: https://github.com/Whiteknig​ht/Rosella/commit/2e5f780ac1
15:54 NotFound dukeleto: make from svn, or plumage?
15:55 mj41_nb left #parrot
15:56 NotFound whiteknight: you can use a pirop for a now, and then let me see use cases.
15:56 dukeleto NotFound: i just cloned the repo on github
15:56 * dukeleto goes to lunch
15:56 NotFound dukeleto: uh, no, that repo was just a test of migration, is not updated.
15:57 Coke winxed?
15:57 NotFound I must delete it to avoid mor mistakes.
15:57 Coke aloha--
15:57 aloha Coke: Pbbbbtt!
15:57 Coke karma aloha?
15:57 aloha aloha? has karma of 0.
15:57 whiteknight aloha, winxed?
15:57 aloha whiteknight: winxed is http://code.google.com/p/winxed/ or http://winxed.org/
15:57 whiteknight karma aloha
15:57 aloha aloha has karma of -41.
15:57 whiteknight aloha++
15:57 aloha whiteknight: Thanks!
15:57 NotFound aloha: take a cookie
15:57 * Coke builds winxed from svn, no problems.
15:57 Coke NotFound++
15:59 NotFound Deleted
15:59 whiteknight NotFound: do you have any plans to migrate winxed to git in the future?
16:00 NotFound whiteknight: haven't decided yet.
16:00 whiteknight it's not a big deal
16:03 NotFound I must figure some politic about release numbers, tags, and such befor deciding anything.
16:07 NotFound And a t-shirt. These days any serious project must have t-shirts.
16:08 NotFound In the beginning was the web. Then came web 2.0. Now is web-shirt.
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18:11 dalek Rosella/gh-pages: ea2f50b | Whiteknight++ | libraries/core.md:
18:11 dalek Rosella/gh-pages: fix formatting of lists
18:11 dalek Rosella/gh-pages: review: https://github.com/Whiteknig​ht/Rosella/commit/ea2f50bf2c
18:11 dalek Rosella/gh-pages: fb03be6 | Whiteknight++ | libraries/ (6 files):
18:11 dalek Rosella/gh-pages: flesh out several of the pages
18:11 dalek Rosella/gh-pages: review: https://github.com/Whiteknig​ht/Rosella/commit/fb03be6966
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18:49 dalek Rosella/gh-pages: c99a95c | Whiteknight++ | libraries/ (7 files):
18:49 dalek Rosella/gh-pages: Add a 'Users' section to each webpage to tell where the libraries are being put to use
18:49 dalek Rosella/gh-pages: review: https://github.com/Whiteknig​ht/Rosella/commit/c99a95cbc2
18:49 dalek Rosella/gh-pages: 471b18a | Whiteknight++ | libraries/ (2 files):
18:49 dalek Rosella/gh-pages: Add in some examples for Action and Container, borrowed from the test suite
18:49 dalek Rosella/gh-pages: review: https://github.com/Whiteknig​ht/Rosella/commit/471b18a63f
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19:16 kid51 ~~
19:16 tadzik hello
19:16 * kid51 is on vacation
19:17 * kid51 met up with dukeleto in Ithaca last night; hope to meet Benabik tomorrow in Rochester
19:18 dukeleto kid51: wow, awesome!
19:18 benabik joined #parrot
19:18 dukeleto benabik: speak of the devil
19:18 * Coke can't imagine going to Rocheter on vaca. ;)
19:18 benabik Ahh!
19:19 benabik dukeleto: What I do?
19:19 dukeleto Coke: don't insult kid51++'s hometown, it isn't polite...
19:19 kid51 Coke:  Well, when you were *born* here ...
19:19 dukeleto benabik: kid51++ was mentioning that y'all are going to have a mind meld
19:19 benabik I can't imagine going to ROC of vay-kay either, but that's probably because I'd rather *go* somewhere.
19:20 Coke kid51: seriously though, have a good time. I think my next vacation is probably going to be yapc time.
19:21 dukeleto Coke: you will be at YAPC::NA this year?
19:22 Coke I hope to.
19:23 cotto_work Coke: how likely does it look?
19:23 Coke The only stumbling block is the usual having to pay my own way.
19:23 Coke . o O (and burn 3 days off)
19:24 Coke actually getting the 3 days off is trivial.
19:24 kid51 Asheville is in foothills of Great Smoky Mtns and is quite pleasant; been there twice in recent years
19:24 Coke BBC headline: Google buys Parrot to aid YouTube
19:24 Coke sadly it's not about us. ;)
19:25 cotto_work not yet
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19:29 dukeleto alin: welcome to #parrot
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19:31 * dukeleto builds winxed for the first time
19:31 dukeleto yay, passing tests!
19:32 cotto_work What Parrot really needs is a MUMPS implementation.
19:33 whiteknight horrors
19:34 dukeleto whiteknight: ok, now i get a different error in the PLA test suite, after install winxed and Rosella
19:34 dukeleto whiteknight: https://gist.github.com/874968
19:34 whiteknight dukeleto: okay, I figured there would be something. I've been refactoring the rosella test classes lately and haven't been keeping up with changes to PLA
19:34 whiteknight I can get those fixed tonight, now that I know other people are looking at it
19:35 dukeleto whiteknight: no worries, I just want to finally be able to run the PLA test suite, so I can help hack on it :)
19:35 dukeleto whiteknight: i could never get kakapo to work right. It is much closer to working now :)
19:36 whiteknight yeah, that was my big frustration too. Kakapo had some awesome goals but it was very complicated and interconnected
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19:38 dukeleto whiteknight: well, i hope to be able to help hack on PLA and friends
19:38 whiteknight dukeleto: I would love to have your hands! Like I said, I'll have all the tests fixed when I get home tonight
19:38 dukeleto whiteknight: awesome
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19:43 bacek Good morning, humans
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19:43 kid51 Good morning, bacek.  Read the blog posts!
19:44 whiteknight yes, bacek++ on the blog posts
19:44 bacek kid51, any feedback/suggestions?
19:44 kid51 bacek:  One:  Could you list the specific source code files from which you're drawing examples?
19:45 bacek kid51, I did. In part 2 :)
19:45 kid51 Ah, yes.  I recall that that was my reaction to part 1
19:55 dalek parrot-linear-algebra: e84dd1f | Whiteknight++ | t/ (5 files):
19:55 dalek parrot-linear-algebra: some fixes so the harness runs again
19:55 dalek parrot-linear-algebra: review: https://github.com/Whiteknight/parr​ot-linear-algebra/commit/e84dd1f3f3
19:55 dalek parrot-linear-algebra: 082a241 | Whiteknight++ | t/ (54 files):
19:55 dalek parrot-linear-algebra: more fixes so most tests actually run again on modern rosella. Test fails now because of a recent change in parrot where we cannot allocate zero bytes
19:55 dalek parrot-linear-algebra: review: https://github.com/Whiteknight/parr​ot-linear-algebra/commit/082a24152f
19:56 whiteknight dukeleto: the test suite runs again, but the memory allocation functions changed in parrot which is breaking some tests. I'll have to fix them
19:56 dukeleto whiteknight: hokey dokey
20:03 dalek parrot-linear-algebra: 88aa9ad | Whiteknight++ | src/include/pla_matrix_types.h:
20:03 dalek parrot-linear-algebra: fix PLA to account for memory allocation change in Parrot. This allows tests to run again, although there are a few failures
20:03 dalek parrot-linear-algebra: review: https://github.com/Whiteknight/parr​ot-linear-algebra/commit/88aa9ad304
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20:20 dalek parrot/opsc_llvm: 1868a49 | nwellnhof++ | src/pmc/socket.pmc:
20:20 dalek parrot/opsc_llvm: Return 0 in socket code for compatibility
20:20 dalek parrot/opsc_llvm: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/1868a4978c
20:20 dalek parrot/opsc_llvm: 4e9e576 | mikehh++ | src/gc/api.c:
20:20 dalek parrot/opsc_llvm: add default to supress compiler warning and update documentation
20:20 dalek parrot/opsc_llvm: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/4e9e576a67
20:20 dalek parrot/opsc_llvm: 7374f63 | bacek++ | / (40 files):
20:20 dalek parrot/opsc_llvm: Merge branch 'master' into opsc_llvm
20:20 dalek parrot/opsc_llvm:
20:20 dalek parrot/opsc_llvm: Conflicts:
20:20 dalek parrot/opsc_llvm: config/gen/makefiles/root.in
20:20 dalek parrot/opsc_llvm: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/7374f6303f
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20:27 dalek parrot-linear-algebra: f58ccb9 | Whiteknight++ | t/ (3 files):
20:27 dalek parrot-linear-algebra: fix a broken test, and fix the harness to actually output the results again
20:27 dalek parrot-linear-algebra: review: https://github.com/Whiteknight/parr​ot-linear-algebra/commit/f58ccb9d0d
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20:50 tadzik hmm. Right now, after being configured and built, Parrot can't be moved to other place and still work. How can that be fixed, is that suitable for GSoC or something?
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21:04 dukeleto tadzik: are you installing parrot into your build directory ?
21:04 kid51 joined #parrot
21:04 dukeleto tadzik: i always install parrot into my build dir
21:05 dukeleto tadzik: https://github.com/leto/Util​/blob/master/bin/new_parrot
21:05 dukeleto tadzik: then you can move it around, methinks
21:05 kid51 IIRC, we have fixed that problem.  Has it reappeared?
21:06 tadzik when was it fixed?
21:06 kid51 In fact, 'make release_check' is supposed to guarantee that.
21:07 kid51 tadzik:  What happens when you say: "perl Configure.pl --prefix=/some/where/else; make; make install" and then change the name of your builddir ?  Does /some/where/else/bin/parrot --version work?
21:09 tadzik kid51: that's what I want to do. I didn't know that was fixed, if it is: great
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21:09 tadzik owait
21:10 tadzik hmm, I think "im asking the wrong questions, nevermind.
21:10 tadzik what you say works since I remember
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21:32 kid51 tadzik: I just ran 'make relcheck' successfully, and I also did an install in a location other than my builddir, changed name of builddir, and successfully called the installed parrot.
21:33 kid51 So I think we're okay.
21:33 kid51 is now known as kid51_at_dinner
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21:33 cotto_work Does anyone know the purpose of our CLA?  I feel like that's something I should understand better than I do.
21:34 * davidfetter hopes it'll allow him to negotiate with a smaller group when he asks for parrot under a bsd-compatible license
21:34 NotFound cotto_work: it make us feel important.
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21:40 cotto_work davidfetter: "when"?
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21:50 dukeleto cotto_work: it is so that the intellectual property of parrot is owned by a legal entity and not individuals
21:50 dukeleto cotto_work: so if somebody wants to sue for intellectual property/etc they sue Parrot Foundation and not individual parrot hackers
21:51 dukeleto davidfetter: don't hold your breath for parrot under a bsd license
21:53 plobsing I'm skeptical about needing separate BSD licensing for inclusion in a BSD-licensed project. My legal-fu is weak, but section 4 of the AL2 seems pretty straightforward and easy to satisfy.
21:55 dukeleto plobsing: you legal-fu is very weak, grasshopper
21:55 tadzik oh, that reminded me of Usagi Yojimbo :)
21:56 dukeleto davidfetter: you seem to be the only person that wants a BSD license for anything, and I honestly haven't heard a good argument for it
21:56 davidfetter dukeleto, that's ok. you haven't made a good argument against it either :)
21:56 dukeleto the BSD license helps corporations and usually is not beneficial to the people that actually write the software
21:56 dukeleto davidfetter: i don't have to. The burden is on you
21:57 * dukeleto doesn't have a soft spot for corporations
21:57 davidfetter there's hocus-pocus and mumbo-jumbo about how somehow the GPL is more friendly to developers. i have not yet seen one scintilla of evidence that this is true
21:57 davidfetter what i *have* seen is corporate Free-washing using the GPL
21:57 tadzik I don't see no GPL in Parrot
21:58 plobsing how is this even BSD vs. GPL?
21:58 dukeleto davidfetter: can you clearly state how releasing any parrot-related project or parrot itself under a BSD license is beneficial to the parrot community?
21:58 davidfetter dukeleto, if you're going to say the BSDL is unfriendly to developers, it's on *you* to provide a specific example. and to show that the example is on point
21:59 davidfetter sure. you mentioned those corporates. they're delighted to contribute if they can hold off for awhile after they publish, or at least they think that's an option
22:00 dukeleto davidfetter: what koolaid are you drinking?
22:00 dukeleto davidfetter: http://fosdem.org/2011/interview/david-fetter-2011 <-- this interview caused a lot of confusion and problems for me
22:00 davidfetter as a bay area denizen, i'm a little sensitive to that metaphor, but let's go on
22:00 dukeleto davidfetter: people were asking me if Parrot Foundation needed to hire lawyers and junk like that
22:01 dukeleto davidfetter: don't speak for the parrot community if you have not consulted us first
22:02 * davidfetter can tell he's offended dukeleto somehow, but is a little mystified as to how this happened
22:02 dukeleto davidfetter: i had to do damage control. No one, except you, wants PL/Parrot in PostgreSQL core. I do not want PL/Parrot or PL/Perl6 in PostgreSQL core.
22:02 dukeleto davidfetter: i am not offended, but I needed to get some of that off my chest
22:03 dukeleto davidfetter: no bad feelings, but I just need to speak my peice.
22:03 davidfetter that interview was with me. i was pretty clear on whom i was speaking for: me
22:04 davidfetter re: the licensing thing, this is well-trodden territory on the pg side. the community ships only and strictly code that's under TPL or more permissive
22:04 dukeleto davidfetter: obviously it wasn't, because I had to assure parrot foundation people that we didn't need to hire lawyers
22:04 davidfetter and yes, we've checked with IP attorneys, etc.
22:04 dukeleto davidfetter: TPL ?
22:04 davidfetter well, somebody wrote that CLA. if there weren't lawyers involved, you're gonna have to hire some anyhow, when it comes to court
22:05 davidfetter "the postgresql license," which is somewhat BSD-ish, somewhat MIT-ish. mostly came from editing without checking with an attorney
22:05 davidfetter fortunately, no significant damage was done, except to create a wacky new license
22:06 * davidfetter kinda shocked at how many hackers think they could do an IP attorney's job
22:08 bacek_at_work ~~
22:09 * davidfetter kinda curious as to who asked dukeleto about this, and more significantly, why those people didn't reach out to him directly
22:10 * davidfetter even more curious as to why dukeleto would answer with anything other than, "davidfetter said it. take it up with him."
22:10 dukeleto davidfetter: i am on the board of PaFo and other board members asked me
22:13 dukeleto davidfetter: people asked me my opinion of the situation and I told them
22:15 dukeleto bacek_at_work: the llvm stuff you are hacking on is very exciting
22:16 bacek_at_work dukeleto, welcome aboard. I need help with finishing it.
22:16 davidfetter heh
22:19 dukeleto bacek_at_work: if you describe some low-hanging-fruit, i am happy to hack on it
22:21 bacek_at_work dukeleto, very-very low-level is finishing wrapping of BasicBlock.
22:22 bacek_at_work dukeleto, little bit higher is to wrap BitReader/BitWriter
22:23 bacek_at_work which imply wrapping of MemoryBuffer functions.
22:24 dukeleto bacek_at_work: which is easier?
22:24 bacek_at_work dukeleto, you can start with some simple things like wrapping LLVMNextBasicBlock/Prev into BasicBlock.pm
22:24 dukeleto bacek_at_work: don't do the easy stuff, let me do it :) You hack on the hard stuff
22:24 bacek_at_work it's straight forward.
22:24 dukeleto bacek_at_work: ok, should I work in your branch, or branch from your branch?
22:25 bacek_at_work dukeleto, just jump on my branch
22:25 bacek_at_work next easy step is finishing Builder.pm. Which is wrapping rest of LLVMBuildFoo functions.
22:26 * dukeleto hops onto opsc_llvm
22:27 bacek_at_work hmm... I've got idea for next blog post - "Implementation details of LLVM bindings"
22:27 dukeleto bacek_at_work: so I am looking at runtime/parrot/library/LLVM/BasicBlock.pm
22:27 bacek_at_work dukeleto, yes.
22:27 bacek_at_work it's pretty much empty :)
22:27 dukeleto bacek_at_work: if you can make your next blog post a "howto" for other parrot hackers to get involved, that would be hella useful
22:27 dukeleto bacek_at_work: i see that :)
22:28 dukeleto bacek_at_work: which other file should I look at to get an idea for what I need to do?
22:28 dukeleto bacek_at_work: i have a vague idea from your blog posts
22:28 bacek_at_work LLVM.pm
22:28 bacek_at_work it holds all bound functions from LLVM
22:28 bacek_at_work you need LLVMGetNextBasicBlock/GetPreviousBasicBlock/etc
22:29 bacek_at_work look at Value.pm for idea
22:29 bacek_at_work it's kind of 1 line of code for each of them :)
22:29 dukeleto bacek_at_work: ok. which llvm docs are you reading to figure out all the method names?
22:30 bacek_at_work Core.h :)
22:30 cotto_work bacek++
22:30 cotto_work use the source, duke
22:30 bacek_at_work dukeleto, reading of Kaleidoscope Tutorial was really helpful to understand LLVM basics.
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22:31 bacek_at_work dukeleto, it should be something like "method next () { LLVM::BasicBlock.create(LLVM​::call("GetNextBasicBlock), self)) }
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22:32 bacek_at_work and Constant.pm can be filled with more stuff :)
22:33 dukeleto bacek_at_work: you have a link to the tutorial?
22:33 dukeleto cotto_work: ;P
22:36 * dukeleto looks at http://llvm.org/docs/doxyge​n/html/Core_8h_source.html
22:36 * dukeleto gets lost
22:37 tewk http://llvm.org/docs/tutorial/
22:38 dukeleto tewk++
22:40 dukeleto bacek_at_work: i am going to break the opsc_llvm branch, and when you fix it, I will learn :)
22:40 dukeleto bacek_at_work: is this expected? https://gist.github.com/875280
22:41 dukeleto bacek_at_work: which version of llvm are you working aginst?
22:42 dukeleto bacek_at_work: i think i was on an old version of the branch
22:44 dalek parrot/opsc_llvm: ecbda7c | dukeleto++ | runtime/parrot/library/LLVM/BasicBlock.pm:
22:44 dalek parrot/opsc_llvm: Add the next method to LLVM::BasicBlock
22:44 dalek parrot/opsc_llvm: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/ecbda7c836
22:44 dukeleto bacek_at_work: let me know if I broke stuff. The branch doesn't compile for me
22:46 * dukeleto goes to nom some $food
22:47 davidfetter bon appetit!
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23:59 dalek parrot/opsc_llvm: 99ec214 | bacek++ | / (55 files):
23:59 dalek parrot/opsc_llvm: Merge branch 'opsc_llvm' of github.com:parrot/parrot into opsc_llvm
23:59 dalek parrot/opsc_llvm: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/99ec21404e
23:59 dalek parrot/opsc_llvm: 16cb003 | bacek++ | runtime/parrot/library/LLVM/BasicBlock.pm:
23:59 dalek parrot/opsc_llvm: Fix BasicBlock. dukeleto-- for committing non-compilable stuff.
23:59 dalek parrot/opsc_llvm: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/16cb003208

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