Camelia, the Perl 6 bug

IRC log for #parrot, 2011-04-26

Parrot | source cross referenced

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:01 mtk left #parrot
00:08 pranq left #parrot
00:17 benabik left #parrot
00:20 davidfetter :)
00:20 davidfetter well, it pretty much was what you said.
00:20 davidfetter stop school. continue to get paid. do GSoC :)
00:22 davidfetter left #parrot
00:26 allison_ left #parrot
00:26 whiteknight blah, I was hoping dukeleto would come back
00:28 dalek parrot/tt1931-nci-parameters-deprecation: d7bc536 | plobsing++ | / (2 files):
00:28 dalek parrot/tt1931-nci-parameters-deprecation: eliminate PASM file with invalid syntax that has been superceded by equivalent PIR file
00:28 dalek parrot/tt1931-nci-parameters-deprecation: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/d7bc5368ee
00:28 dalek parrot/tt1931-nci-parameters-deprecation: 20526e8 | plobsing++ | runtime/parrot/library/postgres.pir:
00:28 dalek parrot/tt1931-nci-parameters-deprecation: update PostgreSQL bindings to new NCI API
00:28 dalek parrot/tt1931-nci-parameters-deprecation: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/20526e8dc5
00:28 dalek parrot/tt1931-nci-parameters-deprecation: b767bf7 | plobsing++ | src/nci/signatures.c:
00:28 dalek parrot/tt1931-nci-parameters-deprecation: fix minor thinko
00:28 dalek parrot/tt1931-nci-parameters-deprecation: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/b767bf7a32
00:28 dalek parrot/tt1931-nci-parameters-deprecation: d70f47e | plobsing++ | src/nci/libffi.c:
00:28 dalek parrot/tt1931-nci-parameters-deprecation: change back to UnManagedStruct ptr wrapper in NCI (one change at a time)
00:28 dalek parrot/tt1931-nci-parameters-deprecation: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/d70f47ef30
00:29 cotto_work It's nice to have a 6guts post to look forward to when I get home.  jnthn++
00:30 whiteknight I was hoping it would be more about 6model
00:30 Caelum left #parrot
00:32 petdance joined #parrot
00:33 whiteknight I'm jonesing for some 6model
00:43 nopaste "kid51" at 192.168.1.3 pasted "Did this codingstd failure get fixed yet?" (22 lines) at http://nopaste.snit.ch/41814
00:43 * cotto_work decommutes
00:44 dukeleto ~~
00:44 whiteknight dukeleto!
00:45 dukeleto whiteknight: wazzup?
00:45 whiteknight how'd the thing with the people go?
00:45 kid51 apparently not fixed yet
00:45 whiteknight at the place, with the stuff?
00:45 whiteknight kid51: oh damnit. That was me
00:45 whiteknight one secont
00:45 whiteknight second
00:46 whiteknight my bad
00:46 nopaste "kid51" at 192.168.1.3 pasted "More c_arg_assert failures" (29 lines) at http://nopaste.snit.ch/41815
00:46 dukeleto whiteknight: very well
00:47 dukeleto whiteknight: i am still backlogging, what needs doing?
00:47 whiteknight dukeleto: I wanted to send out that gsoc info email, with your blessing
00:47 whiteknight I have it saved, can send it at any time
00:47 dalek parrot: e82f5f4 | Whiteknight++ | src/packfile/api.c:
00:47 dalek parrot: fix codestd failure. kid51++ for pointing it out to me
00:47 dalek parrot: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/e82f5f4c49
00:49 jsut joined #parrot
00:50 dukeleto whiteknight: ok, i have some small edits
00:50 whiteknight see? this is why I waited
00:50 dmalcolm left #parrot
00:52 dalek parrot/tt1931-nci-parameters-deprecation: 4a2782a | plobsing++ | src/nci/ (2 files):
00:52 dalek parrot/tt1931-nci-parameters-deprecation: [codiingstd] cpp comments
00:52 dalek parrot/tt1931-nci-parameters-deprecation: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/4a2782abfd
00:52 dalek parrot/tt1931-nci-parameters-deprecation: ed17270 | plobsing++ | src/nci_test.c:
00:52 dalek parrot/tt1931-nci-parameters-deprecation: [codingstd] c function docs
00:52 dalek parrot/tt1931-nci-parameters-deprecation: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/ed17270a50
00:52 dalek parrot/tt1931-nci-parameters-deprecation: 0d8c40c | plobsing++ | src/datatypes.c:
00:52 dalek parrot/tt1931-nci-parameters-deprecation: [codingstd] line length
00:52 dalek parrot/tt1931-nci-parameters-deprecation: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/0d8c40cec7
00:52 dalek parrot/tt1931-nci-parameters-deprecation: 99ff475 | plobsing++ | / (3 files):
00:52 dalek parrot/tt1931-nci-parameters-deprecation: [codingstd] trailing space
00:52 dalek parrot/tt1931-nci-parameters-deprecation: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/99ff4752f4
00:54 jsut_ left #parrot
00:55 whiteknight my son dropped my laptop on the floor earlier today. Now my screen flickers and makes a clicking noise
00:56 kid51 And was that the laptop whose hinges you recently got fixed?
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00:58 dukeleto whiteknight: i am finishing my edits
01:00 whiteknight w00t
01:00 whiteknight kid51: one and the same
01:00 whiteknight kid51: my luck with this laptop has been low
01:03 dukeleto whiteknight: very nicely written.
01:03 dukeleto whiteknight: i just changed a few details
01:04 dukeleto whiteknight: my biggest change is to mandate that all blog posts go on the parrot.org blog
01:04 whiteknight you want to mandate that? I think any blog that we can aggregate on planet parrot should be acceptable
01:04 dukeleto whiteknight: in previous years, many students spun their wheels for weeks messing with their blogs, trying to figure out how to get a feed for their parrot tag, or installing a new blog for it, and other ridiculous things
01:04 dukeleto whiteknight: one student actually starting coding a new blog engine for his parrot blog
01:05 dukeleto whiteknight: it has generally been a nightmare
01:05 whiteknight okay. I suppose that's fine
01:05 dukeleto whiteknight: students change their blog URLs mid-summer and then their feeds get lost
01:05 whiteknight okay, what other big changes?
01:05 dukeleto whiteknight: it is a bit draconian, but I think it is the way of simplicity
01:05 whiteknight or small changes
01:07 dukeleto whiteknight: i made some wording stronger
01:08 dukeleto whiteknight: as in "you will fail if you don't blog once a week". You were being too nice :)
01:08 whiteknight "you best be blogging fool, else you be trippin`"
01:08 whiteknight dukeleto: I'm trying to allow for vacations and stuff
01:08 whiteknight there are valid reasons to disappear for a week
01:08 dukeleto whiteknight: sure. They *must* tell us beforehand about that stuff.
01:08 dukeleto whiteknight: The rule is "blog post every week or you fail" and exceptions must go through us.
01:09 whiteknight okay, fair
01:09 whiteknight lesson learned. I'll never be nice again
01:09 ShaneC left #parrot
01:09 bubaflub i imagine the blogging requirement starts at the official GSoC start date, right?
01:10 whiteknight bubaflub: it started last week. You're in a hell of a lot of trouble
01:10 dukeleto whiteknight: can you add something about one blog post needed for the bonding period?
01:10 dukeleto bubaflub: good quesion
01:10 whiteknight dukeleto: Sure
01:11 dukeleto bubaflub: you owe me 500 lines of code, 5 blog posts and 20 pushups, yesterday ;)
01:12 bubaflub dukeleto: doh
01:13 bubaflub dukeleto: can i tag posts from my existing blog and have them fed to parrot.org blog? or should i blog directly on parrot?
01:16 cotto ~~
01:17 whiteknight bubaflub: blog directly on parrot
01:17 whiteknight set up a blog on parrot.org
01:19 kid51 whiteknight: I'm still getting c_arg_assert.t failures as http://nopaste.snit.ch/41815 (except for the last)
01:19 bubaflub whiteknight: ok, created a user on parrot.org
01:19 whiteknight kid51: yeah, I only fixed one
01:19 whiteknight kid51: have GSoC business to deal with
01:20 kid51 I tried running headerizer.pl -- but that changed nothing.
01:20 soh_cah_toa left #parrot
01:22 petdance plobsing_: You want I should splint your branch?
01:22 plobsing_ petdance: that would be much appreciated
01:23 petdance what's the mojo to check out the branch?
01:23 petdance oh, easy
01:23 petdance git checkout tt1931-nci-parameters-deprecation
01:25 petdance is now known as alester
01:26 bubaflub dukeleto: also, after GSoC I am interested in doing some Postgres/GMP/DBIx::Class magic
01:27 dukeleto bubaflub: sounds good! let's concentrate on GSoC stuff for now, though :) Write down your ideas :)
01:28 bubaflub dukeleto: yeah, i think it would be cool to have a full stack for math experiments on the web
01:30 alester plobsing_: I have a big ol' compile error
01:31 alester oh, wait, pulled new stuff
01:33 whiteknight dukeleto: okay, sending now
01:35 alester plobsing_: You've got a consting error.  Looking into it.
01:36 plobsing_ alester: is this a warning? a c++ error?
01:36 alester it's casting away const
01:36 alester well, it's not casting
01:36 alester just ignoring
01:38 soh_cah_toa joined #parrot
01:40 alester Also, there's a part in src/nci/signatures.c where you're trying to cast an int to a struct.
01:40 whiteknight if plobsing says the int is a struct, you can be damn certain it's a struct
01:40 alester oh, not a struct
01:40 alester an enum
01:40 alester whiteknight: I'm not doubting his skills.  But people ARE human. :-)
01:41 sigue left #parrot
01:41 plobsing_ yeah, I do the int-enum thing far too often. if it walks like an int...
01:41 whiteknight plobsing does not produce syntax errors. The compiler is wrong
01:41 plobsing_ I wish that were true
01:42 alester Hmm, I wonder if there's a way around that
01:43 alester the int/enum thing is a C++ prob
01:43 dukeleto whiteknight++
01:44 plobsing_ alester. casting that is safe, but required to be explict by C++. enum has int-sized storage unless it can be guarranteed otherwise.
01:44 dalek parrot/tt1931-nci-parameters-deprecation: 156e409 | petdance++ | src/datatypes.c:
01:44 dalek parrot/tt1931-nci-parameters-deprecation: fixing constness of char*.  Also consted a local
01:44 dalek parrot/tt1931-nci-parameters-deprecation: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/156e4091d3
01:44 alester plobsing_: I undrestand that.
01:45 alester But I dunno how to get arond it short of adding -fpermissive.
01:45 soh_cah_toa whiteknight: i'm going through your gsoc email now. i thought #parrotsketch was at 20:30 utc? here it says 19:00. is it different during the summer?
01:45 whiteknight oh shoot, did I get the time wrong
01:45 whiteknight I put something in and promised myself I would go look up the real numbers
01:45 whiteknight but it's not my fault, dukeleto proof-read it! blame him
01:45 soh_cah_toa yup
01:46 soh_cah_toa hey, don't you be dissing my mentor yo
01:46 soh_cah_toa oh wait cotto my mentor
01:46 whiteknight cotto is your mentor
01:46 whiteknight :)
01:46 whiteknight I think we all have poor attention to detail tonight
01:46 soh_cah_toa i forgot b/c dukeleto is mentioned in the gsoc acceptance email
01:47 soh_cah_toa so just to make things clear, #parrotsketch is definitely at 20:30 utc?
01:47 whiteknight yes, 20:30
01:47 soh_cah_toa alright, i figured that was just a mistake
01:48 whiteknight normally I can tell time at a 9th grade level. Tonight was a fluke
01:49 soh_cah_toa i can't throw stones though. i still struggle when reading analog clocks. always have... :/
01:50 whiteknight Okay, I've made enough of a fool of myself for one night. I'm going to bed
01:50 soh_cah_toa ha see you later
01:50 whiteknight later
01:50 whiteknight left #parrot
01:51 alester a-splinting we will go...
01:53 soh_cah_toa alester: you, mr. lester, have a ton of cpan modules!
01:53 woosley joined #parrot
01:53 alester soh_cah_toa: I believe they have no mass or weight.
01:54 soh_cah_toa alester: well, you made tap, right? or atleast contributed
01:54 alester Named. :=-)
01:54 alester I didn't even name it.
01:54 alester I just said "Hey, let's name it."
01:54 soh_cah_toa haha, yeah i read the conversation
01:54 alester Becuase otherwise people can't use it as easily.
01:55 dalek parrot/tt1931-nci-parameters-deprecation: 73fc79e | petdance++ | src/nci/signatures.c:
01:55 dalek parrot/tt1931-nci-parameters-deprecation: const an immutable local
01:55 dalek parrot/tt1931-nci-parameters-deprecation: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/73fc79ed93
01:56 alester plobsing_: That cast thing is going to be a bummer when you merge to anyone with a C++ compiler.
01:57 alester Is there a standard way around that?
01:57 alester Other than saying "Compiler, do not care?"
01:57 alester and really, -fpermissive just downgrades the error to warning.
01:57 plobsing_ alester: which switch thing? there's a lot of switches
01:58 plobsing_ recompiling w/ C++
01:58 alester adding -fpermissive that I mentioned above
02:05 nopaste "kid51" at 192.168.1.3 pasted "tt1931-nci-parameters-deprecation branch: build failure with all g++ build" (14 lines) at http://nopaste.snit.ch/41816
02:09 dalek parrot/tt1931-nci-parameters-deprecation: 482b030 | plobsing++ | src/nci/ (2 files):
02:09 dalek parrot/tt1931-nci-parameters-deprecation: placate C++ and its silly attempt at type-safety
02:09 dalek parrot/tt1931-nci-parameters-deprecation: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/482b030fb1
02:09 plobsing_ C++ build should be fixed now
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02:18 dukeleto blarg
02:20 cotto dukeleto, I agree with your blarg
02:21 alester yay
02:27 kid51 plobsing_ the all g++ build now completes:  http://smolder.parrot.org/app/​projects/report_details/15523
02:33 dalek parrot: ada2fff | petdance++ | / (2 files):
02:33 dalek parrot: Update annotations for string functions that return STRINGNULL.  They are now all PARROT_CANNOT_RETURN_NULL.
02:33 dalek parrot: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/ada2fffaf5
02:35 dalek parrot: aee7cc1 | petdance++ | src/string/encoding/latin1.c:
02:35 dalek parrot: Don't treat strlen like a boolean
02:35 dalek parrot: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/aee7cc1f04
02:35 dukeleto cotto: blarg^2
02:36 dukeleto msg whiteknight did you send an email only to the students and not mentors?
02:36 aloha OK. I'll deliver the message.
02:42 sigue left #parrot
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02:45 dukeleto any GSoC students lurking?
02:46 ShaneC1 joined #parrot
02:46 * tcurtis is.
02:47 * tcurtis can't really be said to be lurking now that he said, that, though.
02:47 nopaste "kid51" at 192.168.1.3 pasted "tt1931-nci-parameters-deprecation branch: darwin/ppc: build failure with all g++ build" (7 lines) at http://nopaste.snit.ch/41817
02:47 dukeleto tcurtis: aha!
02:47 * kid51 must sleep
02:47 kid51 left #parrot
02:48 tcurtis dukeleto: why do you ask?
02:50 dukeleto tcurtis: just want to see if anybody had questions or whatever
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02:51 bubaflub dukeleto: i've created an account on parrot.org but can't seem to find the link to create a blog
02:51 dukeleto bubaflub: do you have a link to write a blog post?
02:51 bubaflub dukeleto: que?
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02:52 dukeleto bubaflub: i don't use the interface too much. It has the concept of just writing a blog post on the default blog, and then it has the concept of "personal blogs"
02:52 dukeleto cotto: you know about the parrot.org blogs?
02:53 bubaflub dukeleto: ah, i thought i was suppose to setup a separate blog on parrot.org for GSoC stuff
02:54 dukeleto bubaflub: yes, that is the plan. But we might need for some adminy person to flip a bit somewhere
02:55 bubaflub dukeleto: ok
02:55 dukeleto bubaflub: write your blog posts in your favorite $EDITOR and we will figure out the parrot.org blog junk
02:55 plobsing_ msg whiteknight: (re: Parrot-Instrument) SFAICT, the problem is a corrupt/bogus context. the code segment (and the constant segment to which it refers) are fully populated with consistent data. http://nopaste.snit.ch/41818 avoids using the context for constant lookup. it hits a snag further along with register lookups (which go through the context again). I don't see how this relates to packfiles at all.
02:55 aloha OK. I'll deliver the message.
02:55 dukeleto bubaflub: i keep drafts of blog posts and other writing in a git repo, of course :)
02:56 dukeleto bubaflub: it has saved me from losing work from web browsers crashing and other horrific things
02:56 jrt4__ left #parrot
02:57 dukeleto bubaflub: https://github.com/leto/writing/
02:57 dukeleto bubaflub: you might want to print out the Bene Gesserit Test-Driven Litany and frame it ;)
02:58 dalek parrot/tt1931-nci-parameters-deprecation: cc8b461 | petdance++ | / (2 files):
02:58 dalek parrot/tt1931-nci-parameters-deprecation: Update annotations for string functions that return STRINGNULL.  They are now all PARROT_CANNOT_RETURN_NULL.
02:58 dalek parrot/tt1931-nci-parameters-deprecation: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/cc8b461853
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03:03 cotto dukeleto, what about them?
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03:37 dukeleto cotto: bubaflub wants to get set up with his own blog on parrot.org
03:38 cotto dukeleto, I'm sure we can accommodate that
03:45 dukeleto cotto: does some adminy person need to flip a bit to add a personal blog to parrot.org ?
03:46 cotto dukeleto, not sure.  If the user can go to "create content" ->  "blog post", no
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03:49 dalek parrot: 2213372 | (Gerd Pokorra)++ | docs/parrothist.pod:
03:49 dalek parrot: add empty line
03:49 dalek parrot: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/22133728fe
03:52 dalek parrot/tt1931-nci-parameters-deprecation: 8ab5168 | plobsing++ | / (30 files):
03:52 dalek parrot/tt1931-nci-parameters-deprecation: Merge branch 'master' into tt1931-nci-parameters-deprecation
03:52 dalek parrot/tt1931-nci-parameters-deprecation: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/8ab5168383
03:52 dalek parrot/tt1931-nci-parameters-deprecation: 8cc38ff | plobsing++ | / (2 files):
03:52 dalek parrot/tt1931-nci-parameters-deprecation: Merge branch 'tt1931-nci-parameters-deprecation' of github.com:parrot/parrot into tt1931-nci-parameters-deprecation
03:52 dalek parrot/tt1931-nci-parameters-deprecation: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/8cc38ffa41
03:55 alester It would sure be nice if parrot.org and rakudo.org could run together
03:55 alester since they're both Drupal
03:56 PerlJam so that they could suffer the same problems?  ;)
03:58 cotto rakudo.org doesn't look too good atm
03:58 PerlJam indeed
03:59 alester argh
03:59 cotto well, the page saying that Drupal can't connect to its db looks great, but it's not what I was hoping for
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03:59 alester Maybe the perlbuzz traffic knocked it over.
04:00 alester 19,318 hits yesterday
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04:02 PerlJam alester: btw, your "slipping away" post called your book to my attention (again).  I was recently slightly upset at a couple of my student workers because they got mundane jobs after graduation rather than the outstanding jobs I know they could have gotten.  I intend to encourage future student workers to read your book.
04:03 alester Heh, thank you.
04:03 alester That's kind of the point.
04:03 alester To any naysayer who says "Yeah, like you can find a job you love," I say "Yes, you can."
04:04 cotto andy++
04:04 alester Half of it is deciding that you CAN love your job.
04:07 alester I bounced the rakudo.org
04:07 alester Who wants to run Nagios on it for me? :-)
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04:37 dalek parrot: d48f5d9 | (Gerd Pokorra)++ | ports/fedora/ (4 files):
04:37 dalek parrot: update to packages for 3.3.0
04:37 dalek parrot: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/d48f5d9ff9
04:41 plobsing_ left #parrot
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04:45 dalek parrot/jit_prototype: cd19a6f | bacek++ | compilers/opsc/src/Ops/ (2 files):
04:45 dalek parrot/jit_prototype: Move deep_clone into Utils
04:45 dalek parrot/jit_prototype: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/cd19a6f8a9
04:45 dalek parrot/jit_prototype: aad9e1f | bacek++ | compilers/opsc/ (5 files):
04:45 dalek parrot/jit_prototype: Move Preprocessor into own class
04:45 dalek parrot/jit_prototype: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/aad9e1fd41
04:45 dalek parrot/jit_prototype: f67c1bf | bacek++ | compilers/opsc/src/Ops/ (2 files):
04:45 dalek parrot/jit_prototype: Add ability to set CPP for Actions
04:45 dalek parrot/jit_prototype: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/f67c1bf858
04:45 dalek parrot/jit_prototype: ef59717 | bacek++ | compilers/opsc/src/Ops/Compiler/Actions.pm:
04:45 dalek parrot/jit_prototype: Fix check for existence of Preprocessor.
04:45 dalek parrot/jit_prototype: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/ef59717821
04:45 dalek parrot/jit_prototype: ef15bdc | bacek++ | compilers/opsc/src/Ops/ (2 files):
04:45 dalek parrot/jit_prototype: Add couple more macros
04:45 dalek parrot/jit_prototype: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/ef15bdcad3
04:45 dalek parrot/jit_prototype: 7e97c5d | bacek++ | compilers/opsc/src/Ops/JIT.pm:
04:45 dalek parrot/jit_prototype: Add handling of pirop<!>
04:45 dalek parrot/jit_prototype: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/7e97c5d26e
04:45 dalek parrot/jit_prototype: 7b874a6 | bacek++ | t/compilers/opsc/21-jit-files.t:
04:46 dalek parrot/jit_prototype: Use preprocessor in tests
04:46 dalek parrot/jit_prototype: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/7b874a6f70
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08:24 * lucian does GSoC acceptance victory dance
08:24 lucian congratulations everyone else too!
08:26 moritz lucian++
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11:46 moritz who develops smolder?
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12:18 whiteknight good morning, #parrot
12:20 whiteknight msg dukeleto I sent the email to all the students and mentors except you. I was using a list of addressed I had pre-assembled, from the time before you become a mentor. Sorry about the omission. I'll fwd to you
12:20 aloha OK. I'll deliver the message.
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12:25 * moritz wonders if he'll receive two GSOC t-shirts this year, one for each mentoring organization (PaFo and TPF) :-)
12:26 whiteknight I never received a GCI shirt
12:26 whiteknight so I'm hopeful that I get at least one GSoC shirt
12:26 moritz /o\
12:27 coke_ .
12:27 whiteknight I was meaning to email carol smith about it, but she's busy with GSoC so I didn't want to bother her
12:27 coke_ seen rohit?
12:27 aloha Sorry, I haven't seen rohit.
12:27 jsut left #parrot
12:28 coke_ moritz: smolder is on CPAN
12:28 coke_ seen rohit_nsit08?
12:28 aloha rohit_nsit08 was last seen in #parrot 17 hours 19 mins ago saying "whiteknight: thanks, going for the party :-)".
12:29 coke_ aloha, msg rohit_nsit08 - my IRC will be spotty for a while -you can always reach me at will@coleda.com though.
12:29 aloha coke_: OK. I'll deliver the message.
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13:20 particle1 moritz: mpeters, michael peters, at plusthree, develops smolder
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13:21 moritz coke_, particle: thanks
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13:44 whiteknight msg plobsing Oh, I didn't realize the context had changed, it was looking like the bytecode was changing somehow. Somewhere along the line somebody is corrupting the current context it seems. I'll look at it more today
13:44 aloha OK. I'll deliver the message.
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13:51 mikehh whiteknight: I am sort of a testing/test mentor for GSoC, but am quite happy to be backup mentor for the GMP project
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13:55 whiteknight mikehh: okay, I'm going to pencil you in for that. Like I said, we just want to have names in the slots.
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14:00 moritz whiteknight: fwiw I'm busy mentoring tadzik++ (through TPF), so I'm not available as a backup mentor for PaFo :/
14:02 whiteknight moritz: oh, congratulations to tadzik++! Don't worry about it, I think we have plenty of people available to backup
14:02 whiteknight I just sent you an email because you were on the list of mentors
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14:03 moritz aye, I know
14:05 whiteknight did p6 get any other students?
14:05 dalek parrot: ed6f23c | mikehh++ | MANIFEST:
14:05 dalek parrot: re-generate MANIFEST
14:05 dalek parrot: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/ed6f23c6ce
14:06 whiteknight One thing I liked from years past was the ability to see all the students accepted for Perl
14:06 moritz http://mdk.per.ly/2011/04/25/g​soc-the-tpf-accepted-students/
14:06 moritz no other p6 projects
14:07 moritz at least none worth mentoring
14:07 whiteknight oh, that's something of a shame
14:07 moritz some good ideas, but with poor feedback and timelines
14:08 whiteknight yeah, we had plenty of those too
14:08 whiteknight I'm surprised TPF only had 6 projects. That seems low
14:09 whiteknight Is that because of a small total number of applications, or just a small number of "good" ones?
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14:14 moritz the latter
14:17 moritz PaFo turned down one or two slots too, right?
14:21 whiteknight We had 16 or 17 proposals total
14:22 whiteknight about 7 of them were absolutely unacceptable. 1 application was good but we couldn't find a suitable mentor for
14:30 whiteknight It's a shame too. Like you said some of those had really good ideas at the core of them, but so many students never took any feedback, never updated the proposals, never made them into good proposals
14:30 whiteknight and we aren't going to devote our resources to a good idea with a bad plan
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14:53 benabik Morning, #parrot
14:54 whiteknight good morning, benabik
14:56 darbelo ~~
14:58 whiteknight good morning darbelo
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15:06 mikehh All tests PASS (pre/post-config, make corevm/make coretest, smoke (#15561) fulltest) at 3_3_0-51-ged6f23c
15:06 mikehh Ubuntu 11.04 beta amd64 (g++)
15:18 benabik Is there a magic incantation to create a blog on parrot.org?  I appear to only be able to create "Scratch" pages.
15:19 whiteknight let me look. it might be a permissions thing
15:20 whiteknight benabik: try now
15:21 benabik whiteknight++: Oooh.  Now I can make four kinds of things.  Including blogginess.  Thank you.
15:22 benabik I supposes that somewhat obligates me to make a post in the near future.  :-D
15:22 whiteknight what other things?
15:22 benabik Blog, Page, Scratch, Story
15:22 whiteknight okay, awesome
15:22 whiteknight blog is what you want
15:23 benabik I figured. :-)
15:23 whiteknight let me know when you do make a post, so I can check the links and make sure your posts are going to the aggregator
15:24 benabik whiteknight: Will do.  I'll probably try for a quick one after brunch.
15:24 dalek parrot-instrument: 6336df9 | Whiteknight++ | src/dynpmc/instrument.pmc:
15:24 dalek parrot-instrument: we goofed. Use the supervised interp to compile and run the file, not the current interp. Set up IMCC compiler PMCs in the supervised interp so we have that when we need to look for it
15:24 dalek parrot-instrument: review: https://github.com/Whiteknight/pa​rrot-instrument/commit/6336df9efe
15:26 whiteknight msg cotto I committed a fix to parrot-instrument that gets us much further than we were getting. We were using interp instead of the supervised child interp for some operations, which was causing a problem.
15:26 aloha OK. I'll deliver the message.
15:29 whiteknight msg soh_cah_toa: I fixed parrot.org permissions so you can write blog posts. Check it out
15:29 aloha OK. I'll deliver the message.
15:29 whiteknight msg rohit_nsit08: I fixed parrot.org permissions so you can write blog posts. Check it out
15:29 aloha OK. I'll deliver the message.
15:29 whiteknight msg bubaflub: I fixed parrot.org permissions so you can write blog posts. Check it out
15:29 aloha OK. I'll deliver the message.
15:29 bubaflub whiteknight++
15:30 whiteknight Those are all the students who have created parrot.org accounts, that I can find
15:31 whiteknight tcurtis already has permissions from last year
15:31 darbelo Are parrot.org accounts linked to trac accounts?
15:31 darbelo Or was that svn.
15:31 benabik darbelo: Nope
15:31 darbelo I can never remember which things are linked together.
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15:32 whiteknight parrot.org is unhelpfully not linked to anything
15:33 whiteknight trac and svn shared credentials
15:33 whiteknight now, all of them are different
15:34 whiteknight and of course, I don't think any of our sites allow OpenID.
15:35 whiteknight I'm actually surprised that Github doesn't allow OpenID logins, much less that it wouldn't serve as an OpenID provider
15:36 whiteknight that seems like a natural fit
15:36 whiteknight of course, even if they did it would be a huge uphill battle to get our drupal and trac instances to accept OpenID logins too
15:39 lucian is hugging github more closely an option?
15:39 lucian i hear their issue tracker sucks a lot les
15:40 whiteknight it has gotten much better, yes
15:40 whiteknight still not as great as I think it should be
15:40 * lucian checks it out
15:40 lucian bah, still sucks
15:41 whiteknight yeah, nowhere near what we would need if we wanted to migrate Parrot to there
15:41 lucian they had a prototype written in Objective-J i think, that was very slow but had useful things, like milestones and various states
15:41 lucian could drupal at least be replaced with github's websites?
15:42 lucian or w/e the feature is called
15:42 whiteknight github pages don't have the features we would need
15:43 whiteknight close, but it's all not integrated enough
15:43 whiteknight lucian: speaking of which, create a parrot.org account so I can give you bloggy goodness
15:44 * lucian does
15:45 lucian is using a different blog an option?
15:45 whiteknight no
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15:45 dukeleto hola
15:45 whiteknight I wanted to allow it, but dukeleto had some depressing anecdotes about students creating problems in the past
15:45 dukeleto still with the blog posts?
15:45 whiteknight we just started with the blog posts
15:46 whiteknight lucian asked where his blog can be, and I said parrot.org
15:46 dukeleto whiteknight: i am fine with students putting a blog post on their blog *and* the parrot.org blog
15:47 dukeleto whiteknight: having them on parrot.org makes it easy to find all our gsoc blog posts and saves a lot of grey hair
15:47 whiteknight yeah, that's not an issue
15:48 benabik If parrot.org can give me a personal RSS feet, I'll probably get tumblr to read it.  But I wouldn't want to use my tumblr for GSoC since it's full of irrelevant stuff.
15:48 benabik *feed
15:48 dukeleto benabik: yep, that is possible
15:49 lucian wouldn't it be possible for parrot.org to use a feed instead? wordpress can create a feed based on tags for me, i think
15:50 whiteknight lucian: is it a problem to just create a blog on parrot.org, if only for the summer?
15:50 lucian whiteknight: no, i'll just have to post things twice
15:50 dukeleto lucian: it might, but for the sanity of the org admins, having your blog posts directly on parrot.org is easiest. You are of course free to put the same blog on any other number of blogs, blags and micro-irrelevancy devices
15:50 dukeleto lucian: the same blog post, that is
15:51 lucian dukeleto: sure, it's just slightly less easy
15:51 whiteknight the problem is that if we open up the requirement, we're going to end up with several students who go off in exactly the wrong directions
15:51 whiteknight students who waste hours and hours building and tweaking new blogs, changing blogs, etc
15:52 whiteknight We aren't trying to fund people to set up a personal blogging infrastructure to survive beyond GSoC, we're looking for an information stream from the student to interested developers
15:53 lucian whiteknight: sure, i was thinking of people who already have one set up
15:53 whiteknight lucian: right, but what happens if your blog provider goes offline this summer? Or changes URLs?
15:53 whiteknight or ....
15:54 * lucian shrugs
15:54 whiteknight I know, it's not perfect
15:54 lucian wordpress reliability > parrot.org reliability i guess
15:54 whiteknight but we have to be fair. And fair means realizing that not all our students are at the same level as Lucian is
15:55 lucian whiteknight: "level"?
15:55 lucian made an account, eponymous
15:55 whiteknight the same amount of knowledge of things blog-related
15:55 benabik When sending the CLA to legal@, do I need to scan/send more than just the pages I wrote on?
15:55 whiteknight okay, you have the ability to blog now
15:55 lucian i'm supposedly very "backwards" when it comes to "social" "media"
15:56 lucian whiteknight: thanks
15:56 whiteknight benabik: if possible, send all pages
15:56 whiteknight lucian; when I did GSoC, all the students had to use use.perl.org
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15:56 whiteknight so be thankful we don't do that anymore
15:56 lucian heh
15:56 whiteknight lucian: I think you would bleed from the eye sockets if you had to go there once a week
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15:57 benabik Hah.  I got Preview to include the unchanged pages from the original PDF.
15:58 lucian whiteknight: i think a planet.parrot.org might be useful though. probably longer term than GSoC, though
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15:58 whiteknight lucian: yeah, and I think parrot.org blogs get aggregated there automatically
15:58 whiteknight I may be wrong about that
15:59 lucian uh, afaict planet.p.o doesn't exist
15:59 whiteknight planet.parrotcode.org, I think
15:59 moritz planet.parrotcode.org exists
15:59 whiteknight our old website was parrotcode.org
16:00 lucian i see
16:00 lucian not very pretty :)
16:00 whiteknight the aggregator? No
16:01 lucian i guess planet.sugarlabs.org spoilt me. it aggregates + caches, so no one was jumpy about losing posts
16:01 lucian also, either you or melange got my name wrong
16:01 whiteknight I thought I copied it from melange
16:01 whiteknight what should it be?
16:01 lucian Lucian Branescu Mihaila
16:02 lucian or Lucian Branescu-Mihaila
16:02 whiteknight gotcha
16:02 lucian the passport office and the national id office can't agree which
16:02 dukeleto lucian: which country do you live in? just wondering
16:02 lucian i guess i prefer the second, makes it obvious that all that crap is my last name
16:02 lucian dukeleto: that happens in Romania
16:02 lucian right now i'm in the UK, though
16:03 dukeleto whiteknight: i think we may want to have a document that lists students, mentors and their timezones or something like that. It will come in handy.
16:03 whiteknight lucian: fixed. Sorry about the mixup
16:03 cotto whiteknight, thanks!  It's surprising that there was a bug like that.
16:03 lucian whiteknight: no problem
16:03 whiteknight cotto: not surprising. I updated some of that code hastily
16:04 cotto Ah.  I thought it was in some of khairul's original code.
16:04 whiteknight no. We've had too many updates to bits of the code since khairul left
16:05 * lucian hints at planetplanet.org
16:06 benabik IIRC, bacek is on Sydney time...  Being 14 hours different than my mentor is going to be interesting.  Good thing I tend to stay up late anyway. :-D
16:07 dukeleto benabik: yes. should be very fun :)
16:08 lucian whiteknight: oh, and if my name doesn't fit that long somewhere, don't bother
16:08 whiteknight lucian: we'll make it all fit everywhere
16:08 * lucian shrugs
16:08 whiteknight giving proper credit and proper attribution to the correct name is an important thing
16:09 lucian my co-nationals have great trouble with my name, my expectations are low
16:09 whiteknight tell your co-nationals that Whiteknight said to get it straight
16:09 whiteknight they'll listen to me
16:10 whiteknight :)
16:11 lucian in their defence, names tend to be written differently, like "Branescu Mihaila Lucian"
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16:12 whiteknight In America, we call you "That Lucian guy or whatever his name is from IRC"
16:12 lucian "Mihaila" is an extremely uncommon last name, so people tend to think it's a weirdly/misspelled version of "Mihai" or "Mihaita", which would be a first name
16:13 whiteknight one day we are going to have to skype, so you can tell me the correct way to pronounce that
16:14 lucian loo chee uhn, roughly
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16:15 lucian people call me Luci usually, though
16:15 whiteknight ah, okay
16:15 lucian the english-style pronunciation is close, but i enjoy tormenting native english speakers a little
16:16 * lucian still doesn't get how most brits barely speak a second language
16:16 whiteknight I don't speak a second language
16:16 whiteknight I barely speak english
16:17 lucian but didn't you have to learn it in school at least?
16:17 whiteknight I did take latin for a few years in school
16:17 whiteknight can't remember more than a scant handful of words
16:17 dukeleto lucian: the US has very weak second language requirements
16:17 cotto whiteknight, perfect.  You can go to Latin America.
16:17 lucian dukeleto: well, apparently US as well
16:18 dukeleto lucian: usually you have to take 2 language classes in each of high school and college, which doesn't quite add up to fluency :)
16:18 lucian i speak few languages compared to the average Dutch, but some of what i was taught still stuck
16:18 woosley left #parrot
16:18 * dukeleto kann Deutsch
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16:19 lucian this reminds me, i have to learn spanish better by the end of this summer :)
16:19 Andy_ left #parrot
16:25 dukeleto cotto: LFNW is *this* weekend. How did that happen?
16:27 fperrad joined #parrot
16:28 dukeleto fperrad: howdy
16:28 lucian left #parrot
16:29 cotto dukeleto, I know, right?
16:31 dukeleto cotto: what dates are you planning on being there?
16:32 lucian joined #parrot
16:33 * lucian now hates his laptop a little
16:39 cotto dukeleto, I'll probably take off a little early on Sunday.  I'd like to get back home by 5-ish.
16:39 cotto time for $dayjob
16:44 davidfetter joined #parrot
16:46 dukeleto cotto: what time you planning on getting there?
16:46 whiteknight lucian: why hate your laptop?
16:46 ilbot2 joined #parrot
16:46 Topic for #parrot is now Parrot 3.3.0 released | http://parrot.org | Log: http://irclog.perlgeek.de/parrot/today” |  Accepted GSoC Students announced! | GSoC student information emails coming out soon
16:46 davidfetter dukeleto, so about your PL/concerns...
16:46 whiteknight lucian: because I will trade you in a heartbeat
16:47 lucian whiteknight: well, a little. it's very, very slow, even though the hardware is pretty good
16:47 lucian and it's heavy, and it's annoying because it's apple
16:47 whiteknight ah, all you had to say was "it's apple"
16:48 lucian it's not exactly bad, but there are much better laptops to buy at much lower prices
16:48 lucian it's a MBP 4.1. at least newer MBPs have nicer hardware
16:49 lucian i'll try to sell it again, hopefully for a decent price
16:49 * davidfetter has a somewhat creaky mbp
16:49 dukeleto davidfetter: what now?
16:49 davidfetter dukeleto, well, there's going to be a PL summit in ottawa
16:49 dukeleto davidfetter: i made a pgxn meta.json for pl/parrot
16:49 dukeleto davidfetter: yes, i've heard about it
16:49 davidfetter great!
16:50 davidfetter anyhow, i heard you weren't going to make it, so i'd like to get your concerns on the table
16:50 dukeleto davidfetter: ok
16:50 dukeleto davidfetter: specific concerns, or general concerns?
16:50 davidfetter both
16:51 dukeleto davidfetter: the documentation for writing/mainting/bug fixing PL's leaves much to be desired and actually mocks the reader
16:51 dukeleto davidfetter: at least, the last time I read them
16:52 davidfetter go on :)
16:54 coke_ any feather admins here?
16:55 * whiteknight still doesn't have a feather account, not for lack of trying
16:55 coke_ seen juerd?
16:55 aloha juerd was last seen in #perl6 3 days 5 hours ago saying "Is that the secret channel? :)".
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16:57 dukeleto davidfetter: hmmm
16:58 davidfetter what things do you feel you needed to build that should have just been there?
16:58 dukeleto davidfetter: trusted vs. untrusted are very confusing topics, even to PG veterans. That means something is wrong.
16:58 davidfetter never mind whether you've actually gotten around to building them
16:59 bacek left #parrot
16:59 dukeleto davidfetter: i had to read all the internal PG headers and source code to figure basic things out
16:59 davidfetter such as?
16:59 dukeleto davidfetter: but that is more of a reflection of docs
17:00 dukeleto davidfetter: mostly to figure out what all the internal PG datatypes were and what macros were used to access them
17:00 davidfetter good to know
17:00 dukeleto davidfetter: data marshalling was and still is the hardest part of PL/Parrot
17:00 dukeleto davidfetter: having a map that converts any PG datatype to a Parrot datatype, and vice versa
17:01 davidfetter dukeleto, do you think that's because pg lacks facilities for "playing nicely with others?"
17:01 davidfetter i.e. is it missing APIs you'd want to have?
17:01 dukeleto davidfetter: the PG docs are very nice, but it seems that the docs for PL's are not of the same quality
17:01 davidfetter also good to know
17:01 dukeleto davidfetter: yes, there probably is, let me brood for a minute
17:02 * davidfetter hopes dukeleto doesn't mind if he just saves this conversation off for reference
17:02 dukeleto davidfetter: sure, you can document all this and let them know
17:03 davidfetter that's the plan :)
17:03 dukeleto davidfetter: one issue is that PL/Parrot coredumps postgres a lot, through no fault of postgres. It is usually that PL/Parrot has a bug and postgres freaks out. This makes me think that postgres could have more error-checking when interacting with PL's
17:03 cotto_work ~~
17:03 dukeleto davidfetter: i core dump postgres A LOT :)
17:04 dukeleto davidfetter: but parrot is probably to blame around 50% of the time. hard to tell :)
17:04 davidfetter would some kind of pg facility make it easier to tell?
17:04 dukeleto davidfetter: if there was one place I could do a security review of postgres source, it would be the boundary between PL's and the postmaster
17:05 dukeleto davidfetter: not sure. possibly
17:05 dukeleto davidfetter: i only every coredump individual pg backends, very rarely the postmaster, just to be clear
17:06 davidfetter right
17:06 dukeleto davidfetter: postmaster is quite robust
17:06 davidfetter have you managed do do the postmaster?
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17:07 dukeleto davidfetter: possibly once or twice, but they were probably because I was doing something Very Bad. If I ever coredump postmaster, I will keep track of it.
17:07 davidfetter to do*
17:07 davidfetter that's very helpful
17:07 dukeleto davidfetter: i am trying to think of API's and such that would help PL authors
17:07 dukeleto davidfetter: i haven't been hacking on PL/Parrot enough lately to have it fresh in my mind
17:08 davidfetter will you have any time for this before mid-may?
17:08 dukeleto davidfetter: ok, here is one
17:08 dukeleto davidfetter: different PL's all implement their own caching layers
17:08 dukeleto davidfetter: so if PG internals had a caching solution, all PL's could use it and you wouldn't have a dozen partially implemented cache solutions
17:08 davidfetter ah, excellent!
17:08 dukeleto davidfetter: PL/Perl seems to have one of the better caching techniques
17:09 * davidfetter <3 concrete proposals
17:09 dukeleto davidfetter: I mostly stole it for PL/Parrot, the easy parts at least
17:09 davidfetter convincing people they should move to a new infrastructure is no fun :P
17:09 davidfetter but i'll deal with that
17:10 dukeleto davidfetter: and by caching I mean stored procedure caching, but other types of caching would be useful as well
17:10 davidfetter k
17:10 davidfetter any others in particular?
17:10 dukeleto davidfetter: if you look at the struct called plperl_call_data, you can see another type of caching that PL/Perl does
17:11 dukeleto davidfetter: i think if there was new optional caching infrastructure, the most-used PL's would migrate to it quickly, and the other would do it when they get around to it, if at all
17:11 dukeleto davidfetter: shouldn't need much convincing of people
17:12 dukeleto davidfetter: is _PG_fini supported yet?
17:12 dukeleto davidfetter: last time I read the source, it was getting ready to be implemented
17:12 dukeleto davidfetter: it is the handler for when things are unloaded
17:12 davidfetter There is nothing more difficult to take in hand, more perilous
17:12 davidfetter to conduct, or more uncertain in its success than to take the lead
17:12 davidfetter in the introduction of a new order of things, because the innovator
17:12 davidfetter has for enemies all those who have done well under the old
17:12 davidfetter condition, and lukewarm defenders in those who may do well under
17:13 davidfetter the new.
17:13 davidfetter Niccolo Machiavelli (1513)
17:13 davidfetter dunno, but i'll ask
17:13 dukeleto good quote
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17:14 dukeleto davidfetter: another thing. perhaps they are addressed in other parts of the docs, but a short guide about writing postgres exceptions (PG_TRY and friends) for PL and extension authors would be very useful
17:14 davidfetter this is all excellent stuff :)
17:15 dukeleto davidfetter: SPI still seems magical to me. I am sure I have not RTFM'ed hard enough, but there could probably be improvement on SPI+PL docs
17:16 davidfetter k
17:17 dukeleto davidfetter: that is it, for now. I just read through all of plparrot.c to remind myself of stuff :)
17:17 dukeleto davidfetter: go forth and bring about positive change! Best of luck.
17:18 davidfetter i'll be pestering you about what you find in plparrot.c soon ;)
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17:19 dukeleto rohit_nsit08: howdy
17:19 rohit_nsit08 dukeleto: hello, awesome.. just came back from a grand treat :-)
17:20 rohit_nsit08 mailing the dates for meeting on skype
17:20 bluescreen left #parrot
17:21 tcurtis aloha, msg darbelo Hey. I see that you're my GSoC mentor.
17:21 aloha tcurtis: OK. I'll deliver the message.
17:21 ShaneC left #parrot
17:22 tcurtis oops
17:22 rohit_nsit08 dukeleto: do studends need to submit any report for today's design meeting ?
17:23 tcurtis aloha, msg darbelo When would be a suitable time for you for us to talk each week about my project's progress?
17:23 aloha tcurtis: OK. I'll deliver the message.
17:24 coke_ rohit_nsit08: hio.
17:24 rohit_nsit08 coke_: hello, how are u?
17:26 coke_ good. Busy with $DAYJOB this week.
17:27 rohit_nsit08 coke_: I think I should do some little more work on Project timeline details ( specially the milestones ) and pls review this post http://rohitnsit08.blogspot.com/2011/04​/bootstrapping-javascript-compiler.html I have tried to mention in full detail the steps I'll be working on. If this is fine than I'll proceed with the steps
17:29 coke_ rohit_nsit08: image in step six borked.
17:29 dukeleto rohit_nsit08: it is optional today, since GSoC just started yesterday, but feel free to, since you have been doing stuff :)
17:29 coke_ (and 10)
17:29 aloha 10
17:29 coke_ aloha, 9 and 10 and 11
17:29 aloha coke_: 30
17:29 dukeleto rohit_nsit08: awesome! you can just post a link to your blog post there, that would be sufficient
17:30 dukeleto rohit_nsit08: cool diagrams!
17:30 * atrodo feels the bonding
17:30 rohit_nsit08 coke_: I hv been coding in PIR from last week and the API also, My understanding of JavaScript Object System and prototypes is I believe is also fine now.
17:31 rohit_nsit08 dukeleto: thanks, made them in google docs :-)
17:31 coke_ rohit_nsit08: glad to hear.
17:35 rohit_nsit08 coke_: Will the understanding of PCT help us in this project? I was following the squaak tutorial and I think it will be good if I am able to extend some winxed like object support into it. What say?
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17:41 dukeleto rohit_nsit08: benabik has the best PCT tutorial, imho
17:41 dukeleto benabik: where does it live again?
17:42 benabik https://github.com/Benabik/cish
17:43 benabik It's not quite what I would call a tutorial, but it's (hopefully) a decent introduction.
17:43 rohit_nsit08 benabik: It's great.
17:44 rohit_nsit08 I was earlier following the one included in parrot docs
17:45 mj41 joined #parrot
17:47 whiteknight rohit_nsit08: if you have any status to share, you can make a report for #parrotsketch
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17:47 whiteknight rohit_nsit08: if you have nothing to share, you don't need a report
17:49 rohit_nsit08 whiteknight: hmm.. I have already updated my latest status on IRC, I don't think there is something new rightnow. I should better do some more work and than put it in the next design meet
17:51 whiteknight rohit_nsit08: that's okay. We're just getting started so most students probably haven't done anything yet
17:52 whiteknight benabik: we have your CLA. Thanks
17:52 ShaneC joined #parrot
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18:22 benabik whiteknight: I blogged: http://www.parrot.org/content/hello-my-name-...
18:22 dukeleto benabik: URL truncated
18:22 dukeleto benabik++ for blogging!
18:22 rohit_nsit08 benabik: unable to access it
18:22 benabik dukeleto: Actually, Drupal put a ... in the URL for some reason.
18:23 whiteknight Hi, my name is...frika frika benabik
18:23 whiteknight yeah, the dots in that url are obnoxious
18:23 dalek website: benabik++ | HELLO! My name is...
18:23 dalek website: http://www.parrot.org/content/hello-my-name-...
18:23 dukeleto lulz
18:23 benabik I think I can modify the URL to be less stupid.
18:24 dukeleto there is a bug where drupal makes blog posts for parrot x.y.z. have many dots in it as well, and many broken URL rendering algorithms barf on it, like twitter's web interface
18:24 benabik New URL: http://www.parrot.org/conte​nt/hello-my-name-is-benabik
18:25 dukeleto benabik: awesome
18:25 * dukeleto can feel the GSoC bump in productivity already
18:26 * benabik will be less clever with blog titles in the future, or at least avoid too much punctuation.
18:26 whiteknight yes, one blog post is more than we've had on parrot.org since last GSoC!
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18:54 soh_cah_toa hey guys, could someone tell me how to start a blog on parrot.org? i've already created an account
18:54 cotto_work create content -> blog
18:54 soh_cah_toa oh okay, last night the only option was scratch
18:54 cotto_work er, blog entry
18:54 cotto_work yeah.  whiteknight fixed it
18:55 whiteknight I done did dat already
18:55 soh_cah_toa oh yeah, there it is
18:55 darbelo left #parrot
18:55 soh_cah_toa speaking of mistakes...i noticed that the gsoc acceptance letter had the wrong time for #parrotsketch as well
18:55 soh_cah_toa not just the one from whiteknight
18:56 cotto_work That's the secret #ps that we don't tell anyone about.
18:56 soh_cah_toa haha
18:56 soh_cah_toa the parrot illuminati gathering
18:57 cotto_work time for noms
18:57 rohit_nsit08 left #parrot
18:57 cotto_work #ps in 92
18:57 soh_cah_toa agh, #parrotskech today. that's right
18:57 benabik soh_cah_toa: You were just talking about when it was.  Did you forget it was Tuesday?
18:58 soh_cah_toa my mind has been having trouble processing anything non-gsoc
18:58 rohit_nsit08 joined #parrot
18:59 soh_cah_toa anything other than "yay, gsoc!" has not entered my mind
19:00 soh_cah_toa hmmm...i'm in a bit of a pickle here.
19:00 soh_cah_toa b/c i have an hour workshop at school today right at #ps time
19:01 whiteknight soh_cah_toa: it's no big deal. You can post a report, if you have anything worthy of sharing, at any time
19:01 whiteknight I've already posted my report for the day
19:01 whiteknight and you don't have to attend every meeting. I probably won't attend any of them until daylight savings time
19:02 soh_cah_toa alright. i'm definitely gonna start a blog post today
19:02 soh_cah_toa once the semester ends, there shouldn't be anymore conflicts w/ parrot stuff
19:03 soh_cah_toa i decided not to take that intership so i could focus on gsoc
19:03 soh_cah_toa and no classes
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19:04 soh_cah_toa dukeletto: btw, i'm available for a conference any time on the weekends and any time after 1:00pm on fridays
19:04 soh_cah_toa *dukeleto, whoops...
19:05 soh_cah_toa dukeleto: oh, and anytime monday
19:05 * dukeleto is back
19:06 soh_cah_toa dukeleto: didn't realize you were away. you got that?
19:07 dukeleto soh_cah_toa: roger.
19:07 soh_cah_toa alright
19:07 dukeleto soh_cah_toa: don't worry about attending a #ps if you have school stuff, just paste a short report
19:07 * dukeleto writes a report
19:08 soh_cah_toa will do
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19:08 soh_cah_toa whiteknight: did you get a chance to look at my email about those tests?
19:09 whiteknight soh_cah_toa: briefly
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19:09 soh_cah_toa whiteknight: okay. do you think that's enough? i wanted more but i explained why i didn't think it was possible
19:10 dukeleto soh_cah_toa: i am still planning on responding to your feedback email, just haven't gotten that deep into my email stack yet :)
19:11 whiteknight soh_cah_toa: yeah, I think that should be enough for now
19:11 whiteknight if you're worried about it, leave a comment note explaining it
19:11 soh_cah_toa whiteknight: okay, then i'll submit a patch after class later tonight
19:11 soh_cah_toa dukeleto: okay, good
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19:20 whiteknight soh_cah_toa++ # patches for the win
19:22 soh_cah_toa that reminds me, when do i get a commit bit? i submitted my cla a while ago
19:25 whiteknight soh_cah_toa: depends. They don't just come automatically
19:25 whiteknight somebody will nominate you at the #ps meeting, and then there will be a vote
19:25 dukeleto soh_cah_toa: have you submitted at least 2 patches already?
19:25 soh_cah_toa hmm...let me think
19:25 whiteknight it's actually not super-urgent that you have a commit bit right now. You can work in a fork and submit pull requests very quickly if you want
19:26 whiteknight And your gsoc work should be done in a fork
19:26 soh_cah_toa whiteknight: that's right
19:26 whiteknight soh_cah_toa: I'm not against you having a commit bit, I'm just saying it's not a big deal
19:27 soh_cah_toa whiteknight: right, i get it
19:27 cotto_work Yup.  It's really nice that you could theoretically go the whole summer without a commit bit and not lose any productivity because of it.
19:27 cotto_work git++
19:27 whiteknight yeah, that's a big benefit of git
19:27 soh_cah_toa dukeleto: after tonight will be two. soon three after i finish release manager script
19:27 lucian_ i was wondering, would a AL 2.0 / PSL dual license be ok for a HLL?
19:27 whiteknight doing my GSoC project in svn was a huge waste. I lost so much productivity keeping my branch up to date with trunk, and all that garbage
19:28 lucian_ cotto_work: i'd rather say dvcs++
19:28 whiteknight soh_cah_toa: ah yes, the release manager script. Definitely send a copy of that to kid51. He's one of our resident perl experts and would like to see that
19:28 whiteknight lucian_: a dual license should be fine. I don't know a lot about PSL
19:28 soh_cah_toa whiteknight: sure
19:29 lucian_ whiteknight: similar to MIT license
19:29 dalek parrot/tt1931-nci-parameters-deprecation: 346910c | plobsing++ | / (3 files):
19:29 dalek parrot/tt1931-nci-parameters-deprecation: provide more descriptive error messages for missing NCI thunks
19:29 lucian_ is now known as lucian
19:29 dalek parrot/tt1931-nci-parameters-deprecation: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/346910c7f2
19:29 dalek parrot/tt1931-nci-parameters-deprecation: ea81969 | plobsing++ | src/nci/extra_thunks. (2 files):
19:29 dalek parrot/tt1931-nci-parameters-deprecation: add thunk for "ipP" nci signature used in tests
19:29 dalek parrot/tt1931-nci-parameters-deprecation: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/ea81969287
19:29 dalek parrot/tt1931-nci-parameters-deprecation: f62e3ec | plobsing++ | src/nci/ (2 files):
19:29 dalek parrot/tt1931-nci-parameters-deprecation: handle non RIA types as NCI signatures
19:29 dalek parrot/tt1931-nci-parameters-deprecation: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/f62e3ec49f
19:29 whiteknight lucian_: The biggest draw with AL2.0 is that we could conceivably bundle your compiler in with Parrot without jumping through any hoops
19:29 lucian yes, and i also rather like AL
19:29 whiteknight lucian: do you have a link to the PSL text?
19:29 soh_cah_toa left #parrot
19:29 lucian whiteknight: http://docs.python.org/license.html
19:30 lucian afaict it's not quite as loose as MIT, but doesn't have the BSD weak copyleft
19:31 whiteknight lucian: text of the license looks like it's explicitly between the PSF and the end-user. That suggests to me that the code would have to be owned by or licensed to the PSF in order to use that license
19:32 whiteknight at least, to use it verbatim
19:32 lucian whiteknight: yes, i've thought of that
19:32 lucian whiteknight: i'm not sure the PSF would want my code, though
19:32 lucian afaict, the two licenses are compatible, though
19:33 dukeleto lucian: do you want companies to be able to use your code for a profit?
19:33 whiteknight Yes, I don't see any discrepancies between them
19:33 lucian and AL doesn't seem to impose extra limitations
19:33 lucian dukeleto: sure
19:33 whiteknight and most releases look like they are GPL compatible too
19:33 lucian whiteknight: they are
19:33 whiteknight so you could dual license AL2.0/GPL2.0 to be safer if you want
19:33 lucian so incorporating an AL bit into a PSL project should be ok
19:34 whiteknight I suspect so, yes
19:34 lucian allison: ping
19:34 dukeleto lucian: then you could just dual license with AL and MIT or something like that.
19:34 whiteknight Again, you might want to find an expert to ask about this kind of stuff
19:34 lucian whiteknight: yes, i might
19:34 allison lucian: pong
19:34 lucian allison: do you happen to know anything more about the PSL thing?
19:34 whiteknight lucian: Keep in mind that as the author, you can grant licenses to users for your work under any terms at any time
19:34 lucian whiteknight: yes, i know. i'm not sure i'll own a copyright to everything, though
19:34 whiteknight lucian: so if you need to modify things later to be friendly to PSF, you can do that
19:34 allison the PSF was working on getting a straight PSL license approved by the OSI
19:34 cotto_work There's always the wtfpl
19:35 allison I would generally say the PSL is better for adoption of a Python implementation
19:35 whiteknight lucian: true, but for GSoC you probably will be the only contributor to the repo, at least for the duration of the summer
19:35 lucian cotto_work++
19:35 whiteknight allison: the text of the PSL I am seeing looks like it's explicitly between the PSF and the end user
19:35 allison lucian: and also desirable to donate the copyright to the PSF, if possible
19:35 whiteknight allison: and that implies that the PSF needs to be the owner, or executor of the license for that to work
19:36 allison lucian/whiteknight: yup, which is also good for adoption of a Python implementation
19:36 allison the PSF is generally happy to take contributions of code bases
19:36 bubaflub joined #parrot
19:36 lucian they can't actually do anything with it, though
19:36 whiteknight okay, that's what I was worried about. We should talk to them about the contribution before using a license which suggests the code has already been contributed
19:37 allison the Chairman has specifically said they'd be happy to accept contributions of implementations of Python on Parrot
19:37 whiteknight allison: ah, that's good information to have. Who is the current Chairman?
19:37 allison Steve Holden
19:37 allison I'm also on the board
19:37 whiteknight oh nice. Ace in the hole
19:37 allison and can raise it as a resolution in the next meeting if desirable
19:37 allison but, it's up to you lucian
19:38 dukeleto Steve Holden just moved to Portland, OR, as well
19:38 whiteknight I suggest that the more we can work together with PSF for this project, the better.
19:38 dukeleto whiteknight: indeed
19:38 allison lucian: as whiteknight says the copyright of the GSoC project is entirely yours, so you can keep it for now and we can arrange with the PSF later if you'd rather
19:38 lucian allison: i don't have a problem with donating it, i just don't see what they could possibly do with it
19:38 dukeleto allison: do you think Steve would like to meet for a chat about python on parrot?
19:39 allison dukeleto: very possibly, but he will be in the SFO area for most of the next few months
19:39 dukeleto lucian: the biggest reason for you to be part of a foundation (parrot or python) would be so that some patent troll doesn't try to sue you
19:39 allison lucian: well, you'd still make the releases, they'd just be the copyright holders, like we often do with Parrot Foundation
19:40 allison lucian: the Parrot Foundation is the other option I'd recommend, but I think the PSF is better in this case
19:40 ShaneC left #parrot
19:40 dukeleto lucian: i agree with allison++
19:40 dukeleto it would hopefully create a nice relationship between PaFo and PSF
19:40 whiteknight Lucian can easily grant licenses to both foundations too
19:40 whiteknight no reason we need to make either/or exclusivity
19:41 whiteknight granting licenses is cheap
19:41 allison whiteknight: aye, or really the PSF license would grant us all the rights we need
19:41 lucian right, then for now i'll go with AL 2.0 (and dual with GPL if they're not compatible)
19:41 allison whiteknight: no need for anything special
19:41 whiteknight and we're desperate to work nicely with the PSF, so we won't cause any trouble
19:41 allison AL 2.0 is GPL compatible, you don't need the dual
19:42 allison lucian: would you like me to post a quick note to the PSF board asking about this?
19:42 lucian allison: yeah, sounds useful
19:42 whiteknight allison: could we set up like an informal kind of meeting between some of them and some of us?
19:42 allison lucian: one thing I always wished is that Pynie was PSL from the start, it would have been so much easier
19:43 allison lucian: btw, what are you calling the GSoC implementation?
19:43 allison lucian: can I call it "the new Pynie"?
19:43 lucian allison: or Puffin
19:43 whiteknight "Lucian's Awesome Freaking Python Compiler On Parrot" (LAFPCOP)
19:43 allison lucian: sounds good
19:44 lucian allison: Python includes a bunch of things with lots of licenses
19:44 lucian i don't see how AL would be any harder to integrate than those
19:44 dukeleto lucian: Puffin has a nice ring to it
19:45 whiteknight lucian: the python distribution is probably treated as an aggregate
19:45 whiteknight lucian: that's only necessary if you are shipping a bundle with independent components
19:45 lucian dukeleto: google it, it's the cutest thing on earth
19:45 allison lucian: yes, that's why you want the "Python Software Foundation License" (just the top) and not the "Python License" (the whole ugly stack)
19:46 lucian allison: so adding a AL 2.0 paragraph would not be desirable?
19:46 dukeleto lucian: i would say that you should worry 99% about code now, and 1% about licenses
19:46 allison lucian: is Puffin Python 3 or Python 2
19:46 dukeleto lucian: it will "come out in the wash" as they say
19:47 allison lucian: I'd skip AL 2.0 and do just PSFL
19:47 allison lucian: remember, the Artistic License screams "Perl"
19:47 lucian allison: i was thinking py3, it's easier
19:47 allison lucian: which isn't exactly Python-friendly
19:47 lucian allison: meh, the license is quite nice :)
19:47 allison lucian: cool, agreed py3 is simpler (just wanted to double check before posting)
19:47 allison lucian: why, thank you! (I wrote most of it)
19:48 allison lucian: took up two years of my life, that license did
19:48 lucian dukeleto: yeah, i know. i'm just so busy with my dissertation now, my background cycles don't get scheduled for programming
19:48 lucian allison: wow. i did read you wrote it
19:49 lucian here comes praise: of all the 'loose' licenses, the AL 2.0 is my favourite
19:49 lucian 'loose' meaning MIT/BSD-like
19:49 whiteknight does python 3 use a different license from python 2.7?
19:50 lucian whiteknight: nope
19:50 whiteknight ok
19:52 lucian allison: i'm totally there with python devs getting creeped out by perl, but hating the license is going too far
19:52 whiteknight if the artistic license screams perl and that causes a problem for HLLs, Parrot is in deep trouble
19:52 allison lucian: I wouldn't say they hate the license, it's more of a subconcious thing
19:53 allison lucian: They're trying out a Python implementation and the PSF license sends subtle "this is home" signals
19:53 allison whiteknight: I've seriously considered proposing BSD license for Parrot, for this reason
19:54 lucian allison: perhaps. but staying away from a good license really is going too far
19:54 allison whiteknight: but, it's not as relevant for core Parrot as it is for language implementations
19:54 lucian i'll be the first to admit that the path between running a process, running a regex on its output and using it on another is shorter in perl than in python
19:54 allison lucian: it's like wearing native garb when traveling
19:55 lucian allison: ah, but it always looks odd on stragers
19:55 allison lucian: sure, but at least you tried to be local :)
19:56 allison lucian: though, I'll never understand Americans who try to be "local" by wearing Hawaiian shirts in Africa ;)
19:56 lucian allison: heh. i've noticed i'm disconnected with american culture lately anyway, i stopped trying :)
19:57 allison lucian: hah, me too! :)
19:57 benabik We have culture?  ;-)
19:57 allison lucian: maybe there's a whole culture of Americans who don't get American culture
19:57 lucian allison: i'd be a real oddball there, not even being American in the first place :)
19:58 allison lucian: I find I have more in common with open source people around the world than I do with anyone in any specific country
19:58 lucian i simply don't get it when they say things in new American movies. "Ahhhh! you say me naked!" or something. what?
19:58 allison lucian: more than any specific culture in any specific country
19:59 lucian allison++
19:59 allison lucian: sounds baffling (American movies)
19:59 * lucian nods
20:00 lucian i'm running out of classics to watch, though :)
20:00 lucian well, there's House. not too bad
20:00 tadzik hello parrots
20:01 allison lucian: aye, but he's English, just doing an American accent
20:01 allison lucian: where are you hosting Puffin?
20:01 lucian allison: i suppose
20:01 allison lucian: source control, I mean
20:01 lucian allison: probably bitbucket, unless there are objections
20:01 allison lucian: makes sense
20:02 allison (again, mercurial is familiar to Python devs)
20:04 lucian and to me, too :)
20:07 whiteknight allison: I suspect it would be a huge headache at this point to change the license of core parrot
20:07 davidfetter MIT!
20:07 whiteknight I don't think it would even be possible
20:07 davidfetter i'm pretty sure the CLA guarantees that changing the licenses is a matter for TPF
20:07 lucian whiteknight: i thought there was a license agreement
20:08 allison davidfetter: yes, that's in the CLA intentionally
20:08 davidfetter :)
20:08 allison whiteknight: it would be possible, but it doesn't seem particularly necessary at the moment
20:08 allison whiteknight: especially since AL 2.0 allows relicensing under GPL
20:08 * davidfetter working on a reason or two to make it a good thing
20:08 allison whiteknight: so anyone who wants can use it as GPL instead
20:09 davidfetter it's not the GPL that's a problem. it's the permissive ones
20:09 whiteknight ah, that's interesting
20:09 whiteknight I would actually prefer GPL, if I had my druthers
20:09 lucian whiteknight: for parrot?
20:09 whiteknight lucian: yes
20:09 lucian why? it'd make it useless as a library
20:09 allison whiteknight: we don't really have any reason to restrict proprietary versions of Parrot
20:10 whiteknight it's a personal preference
20:10 lucian i generally agree with using gpl for applications
20:10 whiteknight but I wouldn't foist that on the rest of the community
20:10 allison whiteknight: really, I'd be perfectly happy if a proprietary version popped up, just as long as *someone* was using it :)
20:10 cotto_work I'm excited for someone to start making money using Parrot.
20:10 lucian but i think libraries/runtimes should be LGPL at worst
20:10 whiteknight lucian: yes, LGPL would be preferrable
20:10 allison cotto: exactly
20:11 lucian cotto_work: i have a few ideas, they just require a lot of work
20:11 cotto_work lucian: most ideas do
20:11 * lucian sobs
20:12 allison whiteknight: AL 2.0 is a good compromise when you have a community that's kind of half BSD-style and half GPL-style
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20:12 allison whiteknight: kind of the pragmatic idealists :)
20:12 whiteknight like I said, personal preference. I'm not suggesting we change
20:13 lucian one of the reasons i like AL is that it preserves creative control to some degree, but in a LGPL-style, rather than GPL
20:13 lucian it hasn't been tested in court afaik, so i can't be sure
20:13 allison whiteknight: yah, I'm just reflecting on the ideas (I've been working a lot lately on legal stuff again, this time for harmonyagreements.org)
20:13 lucian but it reads ok
20:14 allison lucian: Artistic 1.0 has been tested in court, really the only open source license that has
20:14 davidfetter ?
20:14 lucian allison: what about the GPL suits?
20:14 davidfetter GPL's held up in .de courts
20:14 allison lucian: and Artistic 2.0 sticks pretty closely to the 1.0
20:14 lucian allison: but anyway, sounds good then
20:15 whiteknight lucian: I'm interested in how you are going to get started with your project. Are you forking an existing project?
20:15 allison lucian/davidfetter: I consider GPL enforcement a different kettle of fish then a general infringement case that just happens to use an open source license, but, I'm probably splitting hairs :)
20:16 davidfetter k
20:16 lucian whiteknight: not intending to, no. just using a parser
20:16 whiteknight okay
20:16 lucian CPython's 'ast' module is pretty good
20:17 lucian and it might again get brownie points with PSF
20:17 lucian and maybe nudge them into rewriting it in pure python
20:18 whiteknight lucian: if nothing else, that might be a great outcome of your project
20:18 whiteknight I wonder what that would take?
20:18 lucian whiteknight: i suppose so. a bit of waste, though
20:18 lucian rewriting it? not too much
20:19 lucian PyPy's parser isn't quite API-compatible, but close
20:19 lucian once they port it to py3, it might be an easy job of merging them
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20:20 lucian kid51: re your report, i'd hoped arm/linux would be similar, but all tests pass! dammit :)
20:22 kid51 Yes, I occasionally get errors on one Linux/i386 box that I do not on the other.
20:22 dukeleto kid51: same gcc versions?
20:22 kid51 On the second box, I rarely have time to debug further.
20:23 kid51 dukeleto: I think probably 4.3.n on the first; 4.4.1 on the second
20:25 kid51 cotto_work: At YAPC, whether we should have a hackathon on the Thursday of that week depends in part on your availability.  Can you be there on the Thursday (1st day after conference itself)?
20:25 cotto_work kid51: sure.  I haven't booked my flight yet.
20:26 cotto_work Sticking around for a hackathon is fine for me.
20:26 kid51 Then we can advise atrodo to secure that room (though if it's a large room, we won't need it all for ourselves)
20:27 kid51 #parrotsketch in 2
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20:29 cotto_work dukeleto: privmsg ping
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20:53 cotto_work tadzik: what timezone are you in?
20:53 tadzik cotto_work: utc + 2 I think, 22:53 for me now
20:54 cotto_work so you're at me +9
20:54 cotto_work aloha: clock?
20:54 aloha cotto_work: LAX: Tue, 13:54 PDT / CHI: Tue, 15:54 CDT / NYC: Tue, 16:54 EDT / UTC: Tue, 20:54 UTC / LON: Tue, 21:54 BST / BER: Tue, 22:54 CEST / TOK: Wed, 05:54 JST / SYD: Wed, 06:54 EST
20:55 cotto_work tadzik: what do your mornings look like?
20:55 tadzik cotto_work: depends on the morning
20:55 tadzik every day is different, I have no daily routine (almost)
20:55 cotto_work What time are you used to waking up?
20:56 cotto_work 6?  9? 12?
20:56 rohit_nsit08 left #parrot
20:56 cotto_work If you're an early riser, we can review the Select when you get up tomorrow.
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20:57 tadzik more like 9
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20:58 tadzik I'm rather a night person
20:59 cotto_work ok.  That'll be a bit late for me.
20:59 tadzik my 9 is your 0:00, no?
20:59 cotto_work yup
21:00 cotto_work I might be up, but not very useful.
21:00 tadzik when is your free time usually, after like 6 PM, 8?
21:02 cotto_work after 6-ish
21:02 tadzik so that's my... 27, right? 3 AM, damn
21:03 tadzik anyway, what are you planning at?
21:03 cotto_work Select review
21:04 tadzik well, I'm not much a reviewer, I just look forward to having it merged, so I can give some async IO to Rakudo
21:04 tadzik I just know that you commented on the ticket with "I'd like to look more into it"
21:05 cotto_work right
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21:05 cotto_work I'll just do my review in the ticket or in the pull request
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22:05 tcurtis benabik++
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22:23 dalek parrot/tt1931-nci-parameters-deprecation: bd631cb | plobsing++ | src/nci/extra_thunks. (2 files):
22:23 dalek parrot/tt1931-nci-parameters-deprecation: add thunk for "ppS" signature used by PCRE
22:23 dalek parrot/tt1931-nci-parameters-deprecation: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/bd631cba53
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22:49 dalek nqp/ctmo: 98eb233 | jonathan++ | src/ (2 files):
22:49 dalek nqp/ctmo: Add attribute meta-objects to the HOW exports.
22:49 dalek nqp/ctmo: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/98eb2330df
22:49 dalek nqp/ctmo: 591efd8 | jonathan++ | src/Regex/Cursor-builtins.pir:
22:49 dalek nqp/ctmo: Fix FAILGOAL.
22:49 dalek nqp/ctmo: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/591efd832f
22:49 dalek nqp/ctmo: 4b81716 | jonathan++ | src/stage0/ (7 files):
22:49 dalek nqp/ctmo: Update bootstrap to get FAILGOAL fix.
22:49 dalek nqp/ctmo: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/4b81716ce3
22:49 dalek nqp/ctmo: 0c07f7d | jonathan++ | src/ (3 files):
22:49 dalek nqp/ctmo: Add attributes to compile time meta-object for all packages except knowhow (got a circularity issue to resolve there).
22:49 dalek nqp/ctmo: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/0c07f7dfca
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23:14 soh_cah_toa how can i update the branch i forked to make sure it includes all the changes in parrot/parrot?
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23:15 dukeleto soh_cah_toa: it is described in docs/project/git_workflow.pod
23:15 dukeleto soh_cah_toa: git pull --rebase
23:15 dukeleto soh_cah_toa: you are using branches, correct?
23:15 soh_cah_toa ah, rebase. right
23:15 soh_cah_toa yeah, forked on github
23:16 dukeleto soh_cah_toa: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/blob​/master/docs/project/git_workflow.pod
23:16 dukeleto soh_cah_toa: you are creating a topic branch and not commiting directly to master, correct?
23:16 dukeleto soh_cah_toa: read that git_workflow.pod, it is the source of much knowledge
23:16 soh_cah_toa yeah, i can't commit to master anyway
23:16 dukeleto soh_cah_toa: you are confused
23:17 dukeleto soh_cah_toa: master is a branch in a repo
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23:17 dukeleto soh_cah_toa: parrot/parrot.git is a repo with a master branch, but your fork has a master branch as well
23:17 dukeleto soh_cah_toa: makes sense?
23:17 soh_cah_toa oh right
23:17 soh_cah_toa then no, i think
23:17 dukeleto soh_cah_toa: :)
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23:17 dukeleto soh_cah_toa: read those docs, and then send an email to parrot-dev with your question
23:18 dukeleto soh_cah_toa: if you have it, then other gsoc students will too
23:18 soh_cah_toa okay
23:18 dukeleto soh_cah_toa: i am going to work out, and will answer it when I get back (if somebody else hasn't already)
23:18 soh_cah_toa dukeleto: alright, thanks
23:18 * benabik is very unlikely to have git questions, but is happy to try to provide answers.
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23:21 dukeleto soh_cah_toa: benabik++ most likely knows a lot more about git than me, so feel free to bother him :)
23:21 * dukeleto really goes
23:21 * benabik should have kept his mouth shut. ;-)
23:22 soh_cah_toa benabik: ha, well your lucky that i have class in a few minutes so i won't bother you for too long
23:22 soh_cah_toa it seems that 'git pull --rebase' is not working as i had hoped
23:23 soh_cah_toa i'm working on a copy that i forked from parrot/parrot on github
23:23 soh_cah_toa forked pre-3.3.0
23:23 benabik It should take your changes on the current branch and put them on top of the original branch in parrot.git
23:24 benabik What problem are you having with it?
23:24 soh_cah_toa well there are patches that i applied to parrot/parrot that i don't have in soh-cah-toa-/parrot
23:25 benabik The patches are in your local repo?
23:26 soh_cah_toa yeah. they're wrong though. after those patches i made some fixes to them and then submitted. now the correct patches are in parrot/parrot but the "immature" ones are in soh-cah-toa/parrot
23:27 soh_cah_toa i'm thinking maybe just delete the repo and re-fork but i'm not sure if i'd loose anything
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23:27 benabik That's not needed.
23:27 soh_cah_toa but there's gotta be a way to do this
23:28 soh_cah_toa i'm sure there's just some git command that i'm unfamiliar w/ that's the solution
23:28 benabik If there's nothing in your local branch you need, you can `git fetch; git reset --hard @{u}`.  (@{u} means upstream branch and was added in git 1.7
23:28 benabik (Note that --hard may lose uncommitted changes)
23:29 soh_cah_toa blah, yeah it did
23:30 benabik I shouldn't have added the --hard, or advised stashing first.  Stupid finger memory.
23:30 benabik I usually either have everything committed or stash before pulling.
23:30 benabik benabik--
23:30 soh_cah_toa i can recommit in about 6 seconds
23:31 * benabik should remember not to tell people to do things that might lose data.
23:32 soh_cah_toa alright, back to where i started
23:33 benabik \o/
23:33 soh_cah_toa git reset w/o the --hard?
23:33 benabik "git reset @{u}" will set your current branch to be identical to the upstream branch.
23:33 benabik The --hard also changes your files to match.
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23:34 soh_cah_toa hmm...i think someone already applied the patch i submitted to parrot/parrot
23:35 soh_cah_toa b/c git reset @{u} has the changes i submitted to trac about 20 mins ago
23:35 soh_cah_toa and that's what i wanted to do w/ the fork
23:35 soh_cah_toa except i'm not in the log. hmm...
23:36 benabik Check "git status".
23:36 benabik If the changes were in your working copy, they'll still be there if you didn't use reset --hard
23:36 soh_cah_toa ah. there they are
23:36 soh_cah_toa agh. i really gotta get going though
23:36 benabik You can now recommit them or blow them away as you see fit.
23:37 soh_cah_toa this is what i wanted (i think). thanks for the help
23:37 * soh_cah_toa heads off to school :(
23:37 benabik Yay school.
23:40 dalek nqp/ctmo: cdae853 | jonathan++ | src/NQP/Actions.pm:
23:40 dalek nqp/ctmo: Oops, fix that type lookup.
23:40 dalek nqp/ctmo: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/cdae853df1
23:40 dalek nqp/ctmo: 509ee04 | jonathan++ | src/HLL/SerializationContextBuilder.pm:
23:40 dalek nqp/ctmo: Fix an attribute access that was wrong, caught by the in-progress undeclared attribute detection.
23:40 dalek nqp/ctmo: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/509ee044a1
23:40 dalek nqp/ctmo: 1a79be7 | jonathan++ | / (4 files):
23:40 dalek nqp/ctmo: Add .type to PAST::Var nodes. Also twiddle the build a bit to make sure we build changes to the PAST extensions.
23:40 dalek nqp/ctmo: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/1a79be74dc
23:41 dalek nqp/ctmo: eafc258 | jonathan++ | src/NQP/ (2 files):
23:41 dalek nqp/ctmo: Detect undeclared attributes at compile time and complain about them. Possible now that we register them with the compile timemeta-object. Also, pass any declared type along to the PAST::Var node, though it's not used yet.
23:41 dalek nqp/ctmo: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/eafc2587f1
23:41 dalek nqp/ctmo: cf88f9e | jonathan++ | src/how/NQP (2 files):
23:41 dalek nqp/ctmo: Standardize introspection interface implemented in the role meta-objects. Unregresses the roles.t breakage in the last commit.
23:41 dalek nqp/ctmo: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/cf88f9e205
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