Camelia, the Perl 6 bug

IRC log for #parrot, 2011-04-28

Parrot | source cross referenced

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Time Nick Message
00:15 darbelo left #parrot
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00:23 dukeleto can someone verify for me that this is a public link ? http://www.google-melange.com/gsoc/prop​osal/review/google/gsoc2011/kpolulak/1
00:23 tcurtis It is.
00:24 tcurtis Assuming it is intended to link to the project proposal.
00:26 ShaneC joined #parrot
00:27 kid51 Well, I wasn't asked to login to view it.
00:27 kid51 is now known as kid51_at_dinner
00:28 theory left #parrot
00:30 dukeleto tcurtis++
00:41 dukeleto msg rohit_nsit08 what is your github username?
00:41 aloha OK. I'll deliver the message.
00:43 dukeleto msg lucian do you have a profile or something on the interwebs that you would like me to link to from a gsoc blog post?
00:43 aloha OK. I'll deliver the message.
00:52 Coke left #parrot
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00:54 dalek website: soh_cah_toa++ | It's the Most Wonderful Time of the Year!
00:54 dalek website: http://www.parrot.org/content​/its-most-wonderful-time-year
00:55 whiteknight xmas?
00:55 whiteknight I'm sweating too much for xmas
00:56 soh_cah_toa yeah man, the heat is killing me
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01:01 cotto kid51++
01:01 whiteknight soh_cah_toa: you get any of those crazy thunderstorms today?
01:03 soh_cah_toa whiteknight: almost. it got close
01:03 whiteknight we got hit by a few of them today. short but powerful
01:03 dukeleto soh_cah_toa++ # bloggin'
01:04 soh_cah_toa i never thought i'd see the day that i'd have a blog
01:13 soh_cah_toa i've been meaning to ask this for a while...if parrot is register-based, how are functions called?
01:13 davidfetter by their registered names
01:13 davidfetter *rimshot*
01:14 davidfetter thanks, i'm here all week. try the meatloaf.
01:14 whiteknight :)
01:14 dukeleto soh_cah_toa: continuation passing style
01:15 whiteknight soh_cah_toa: dark magic, mostly
01:15 whiteknight soh_cah_toa: we push values into a CallContext object
01:15 * davidfetter hopes he can convince calvin broadus to pen some music involving CP style
01:15 whiteknight then the callee unpacks the CallContext into registers
01:16 soh_cah_toa like the registers' state, return address, arguments?
01:16 whiteknight no, just the values
01:17 soh_cah_toa hmm...well, how is the state before the function preservered? where is the return address stored?
01:17 whiteknight every executing function context has a CallContext object that stores its state
01:17 whiteknight CallContexts form a linked list of sorts
01:17 soh_cah_toa okay
01:17 whiteknight it's like a stack in a C program, but more linked-listy
01:18 whiteknight also, it's not really a list, because we can have closures and stuff, so it's an acyclic graph
01:18 soh_cah_toa are the CallContext's stored in the default namespace?
01:18 whiteknight no
01:18 soh_cah_toa like, can i actually access this pmc?
01:18 whiteknight interp->ctx contains a pointer to the current CallContext
01:19 soh_cah_toa hmm...
01:19 whiteknight actually, there's a macro to use
01:19 whiteknight CURRENT_CONTEXT(interp), I think
01:19 soh_cah_toa that's another thing...
01:19 kid51_at_dinner is now known as kid51
01:20 soh_cah_toa where is "interp" defined?
01:20 whiteknight it's defined in most functions
01:20 soh_cah_toa i see you can use it if you have PARROT_INTERP as the first arg
01:20 whiteknight PARROT_INTERP
01:20 soh_cah_toa then what's PARROT_INTERP? a macro?
01:20 whiteknight PARROT_INTERP is #defined as "Interp *interp"
01:20 soh_cah_toa ah, okay
01:21 whiteknight I don't know where. You'll have to grep for it in include/parrot/*.h
01:21 soh_cah_toa i did
01:21 soh_cah_toa what a mess
01:22 whiteknight :)
01:22 whiteknight dealing with that mess is why they pay you the big bucks
01:23 soh_cah_toa how would i access CallConext in nqp? inside a Q:PIR {} block? say "Q:PIR { $P0 = new CallContext }"?
01:24 soh_cah_toa oh, not the say function
01:24 whiteknight if you want to create a new one, that's how you would do it
01:24 whiteknight if you want the current one, you can get it from the interp
01:24 whiteknight pir::getinterp()["context"] I think
01:24 whiteknight you'll have to look up src/pmc/parrotinterpreter.pmc:get_attr_str to find out what it's called
01:25 soh_cah_toa alright
01:25 whiteknight (it's not that I can't find out for you, I'm trying to help you solve it for yourself :)
01:26 whiteknight I'm also trying to give you the grand tour of the codebase
01:26 soh_cah_toa do i have to tip my tour guide?
01:28 coke_ (grep for) or you could use "vi -t PARROT_INTERP"
01:28 kid51 seen plobsing?
01:28 aloha plobsing was last seen in #perl6 1 days 9 hours ago joining the channel.
01:29 soh_cah_toa well i did a grep a while ago. the thing was that i didn't know what type it was so i didn't know in what type of files to search so i could only do a find . -name "*.*" which was horrible
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01:30 kid51 Can anyone advise me as to how I would "provide a C backtrace for [the] assertion violations" I'm reporting on parrot-dev re plobsing's tt1931-nci-parameters-deprecation branch?
01:30 whiteknight kid51: do you have gdb?
01:31 kid51 Yes.
01:31 whiteknight kid51: gdb --args parrot foo.pir
01:31 coke_ soh_cah_toa: see also ack.
01:31 whiteknight (whatever your program is called)
01:31 kid51 AAMOF, I've been learning more about it as part of my C++ study.
01:31 * dukeleto .nom.nom.nom()
01:32 whiteknight kid51: when you get in, do "start", "break Parrot_confess", "c"
01:32 whiteknight kid51: if it asks you any questions, just say "yes"
01:32 kid51 For 'foo.pir', would I here substitute compilers/opsc/gen/Ops/File.pir?
01:32 whiteknight kid51: if that's the program that has the assertion failure, yes
01:32 kid51 (Well, actually, I can't, because that was where it failed)
01:33 whiteknight basically, it's "gdb --args", followed by the exact commandline you want to debug
01:33 soh_cah_toa coke_: oh...this looks nice. yeah, this will definitely be handy
01:33 whiteknight soh_cah_toa: yeah, ack is a godsend
01:33 whiteknight Andy makes it
01:33 kid51 gdb --args ./parrot-nqp --target=pir --output=compilers/opsc/gen/Ops/File.pir compilers/opsc/src/Ops/File.pm  ?
01:33 whiteknight kid51: looks good to me
01:34 soh_cah_toa that's awesome
01:34 whiteknight kid51: on a side note, I figured out my --no-line-directives bug. I had a typo inside an alias somewhere that was dropping that argument
01:34 whiteknight kid51: so, egg on my face
01:35 kid51 Undefined command: "start".  Try "help".
01:35 kid51 Function "Parrot_confess" not defined.
01:35 kid51 Make breakpoint pending on future shared library load? (y or [n])
01:36 kid51 Well, I immediately run into the problem we always have on Darwin:
01:36 kid51 dyld: Library not loaded: /usr/local/lib/libparrot.dylib
01:36 kid51 Referenced from: /Users/jimk/gitwork/parrot/parrot-nqp
01:36 kid51 Reason: image not found
01:36 whiteknight ...weird
01:37 whiteknight okay, it makes no sense that the "start" command  isn't found. that seems like a pretty fundamental command
01:37 whiteknight unless mac developers call it something weird
01:37 whiteknight try "genius"
01:37 whiteknight :)
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01:38 kid51 gdb --version
01:38 kid51 GNU gdb 6.1-20040303 (Apple version gdb-437) (Sun Dec 25 08:31:29 GMT 2005)
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01:39 kid51 For purpose of using 'prove' or 'perl t/harness', the workaround is to do a non-official installation of Parrot, and then:
01:39 kid51 export DYLD_LIBRARY_PATH="$HOMEDIR/work/pseudoins​tall/lib:$HOMEDIR/gitwork/parrot/blib/lib"
01:40 kid51 So perhaps we have to somehow make gdb aware of DYLD_LIBRARY_PATH ?
01:41 kid51 Oh, wait a minute ... or an hour.... I currently don't have anything installed.
01:43 kid51 Well, this will take me at least an hour, by which time it will be sleep time.
01:46 kid51 So I'll do a pseudoinstall of a gcc/g++/g++ build, then reconfigure and build with all g++ until I get to the failure point.
01:46 kid51 At which point maybe gdb will start to work.
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01:50 benabik ~~
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01:52 whiteknight okay, I'm heading to bed
01:52 whiteknight goodnight
01:52 benabik whiteknight: 'night
01:52 whiteknight left #parrot
01:52 cotto 'night
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01:55 benabik bacek: ping
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01:56 kid51 right about now, that's probably "bacek_at_work ping" ;-)
01:58 PerlJam benabik: how fortuitous ... I volunteered to be bacek's backup mentor for gsoc (he doesn't know yet either).  And ... I have no idea where you're at or what you've done so far  :)
01:58 benabik kid51: Don't bother me with details.
01:59 benabik PerlJam: I've blogged, forked parrot on github, and just now tried to get a hold of bacek.
01:59 PerlJam benabik: where's your blog?
01:59 benabik http://parrot.org/blog/1240
01:59 PerlJam danke
02:02 PerlJam benabik: just checking ... when you say NQP, you really mean nqp-rx, right?  (not the new and improved nqp that jnthn is working on)
02:02 benabik PerlJam: Most specifically I really mean parrot-nqp, but jnthn__ said there should be no syntax differences.
02:11 PerlJam benabik: so ... what did you need from bacek?   (I don't know if I can help, but I'll try.)
02:13 benabik PerlJam: Mostly just trying to sync up and see how badly mis-matched our schedules will be.  I'm supposed to be talking to somebody once a week. :-)
02:14 PerlJam What time zone are you in?
02:14 benabik EDT (-4)
02:16 PerlJam I'm CDT  (well, EDT at the moment since I'm in Florida, but I'll be back to CDT tomorrow :)
02:19 benabik Which means I'm more likely to be able to get ahold of you than bacek.  :-/  I'm still going to try to figure out when I can talk to him though.
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02:22 soh_cah_toa msg cotto what hours are you at work? i'd like to just go over some things about gsoc w/ you but i know sometimes you're work
02:22 aloha OK. I'll deliver the message.
02:23 cotto ~~
02:23 cotto soh_cah_toa, usually 8-10 to 5-6:30
02:23 cotto it's flexible
02:24 PerlJam benabik: are you working full time while getting your MS?
02:25 soh_cah_toa cotto: okay, that works
02:25 benabik PerlJam: At the moment all I have is a contracting gig a few hours a week.
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02:26 soh_cah_toa cotto: how about friday night? or do you usually go out then?
02:27 cotto soh_cah_toa, this Friday I'll most likely be hanging out with dukeleto at lfnw
02:27 soh_cah_toa cotto: oh yeah. forgot about that
02:28 soh_cah_toa cotto: when do you get back?
02:28 cotto Sunday evening
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02:29 soh_cah_toa cotto: that'll work
02:32 PerlJam benabik: so ... I haven't used NQP (of any flavor) in a while and I'm going to have to come up to speed on the nqp_pct branch and such. (just so you know)
02:33 benabik PerlJam: Fair enough.  I'm not really going to get much work done prior to May 20th, so there's time for everyone to get up to speed.  :-)
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03:05 atrodo Ya, I have a laundry list in progress to fix/improve for isparrotfastyet, just need the time to do it
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03:24 dukeleto ~~ (for a bit)
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03:41 dalek parrot/leto/embed_grant: 504e86f | dukeleto++ | t/src/extend_vtable.t:
03:41 dalek parrot/leto/embed_grant: [t] Parrot_PMC_set_pointer_keyed_int using a HashIteratorKey
03:41 dalek parrot/leto/embed_grant: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/504e86fd1f
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04:36 dukeleto Check it out, I have parrot.git doing the Jitterbug again:  http://new.leto.net:3000/project/parrot
04:45 dalek parrot/tt2103_cmp_pmc: e71819b | dukeleto++ | t/src/extend_vtable.t:
04:45 dalek parrot/tt2103_cmp_pmc: [t][TT#2103] Parrot_PMC_cmp_pmc
04:45 dalek parrot/tt2103_cmp_pmc:
04:45 dalek parrot/tt2103_cmp_pmc: This test gives this error:
04:45 dalek parrot/tt2103_cmp_pmc:
04:45 dalek parrot/tt2103_cmp_pmc: even though PP->P seems to be the correct signature.
04:45 dalek parrot/tt2103_cmp_pmc: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/e71819b14e
04:48 dukeleto interesting. the actual error in the commit message got removed
04:57 dalek TT #2103 created by dukeleto++: cmp_pmc not working in extend_vtable
04:57 dalek TT #2103: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/ticket/2103
04:58 dalek parrot: 2888490 | dukeleto++ | config/auto/ipv6/test.in:
04:58 dalek parrot: [TT #2101] Attempt to fix ipv6 detection on Gentoo, tadzik++
04:58 dalek parrot: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/2888490650
04:59 dukeleto wow, 16 consecutive leading integers in a SHA1! That is exceedingly rare.
05:04 dalek parrot: e5452a6 | dukeleto++ | t/tools/parrot_debugger.t:
05:04 dalek parrot: [TT #1848] Remove useless parrot_debugger tests
05:04 dalek parrot:
05:04 dalek parrot: A change in the parrot_debugger has rendered all these tests useless, and we
05:04 dalek parrot: will be getting a shiny, well-tested new debugger from soh_cah_toa++ soon,
05:04 dalek parrot: so these tests go to the bitbucket.
05:04 dalek parrot: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/e5452a6358
05:13 dalek TT #1848 closed by dukeleto++: delete placeholder t/tools/parrot_debugger.t
05:13 dalek TT #1848: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/ticket/1848
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05:23 cotto I'm comfortable in upgrading my talk to "probably not a trainwreck".
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05:26 cotto a couple more practice runs and it'll up to "boo-yah"
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05:28 dalek TT #2100 closed by dukeleto++: Automate the release process
05:29 dalek TT #2100: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/ticket/2100
05:29 cotto closed?
05:30 cotto ah
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06:12 dukeleto http://leto.net/dukeleto.pl/2011/04/parr​ot-embed-grant-update-5-zen-pebbles.html
06:13 dukeleto cotto: well, then it is about 5 levels above mine, currently
06:14 cotto dukeleto, have you spoken much before?
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07:25 dukeleto cotto: yeah, I guess so, at various confs.
07:25 dukeleto cotto: me go bed now.
07:25 dukeleto cotto: see ya on the flip side
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07:27 cotto 'night
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10:12 dalek nqp/ctmo: b3299e5 | moritz++ | build/Makefile.in:
10:12 dalek nqp/ctmo: make nqp installable again
10:12 dalek nqp/ctmo:
10:12 dalek nqp/ctmo: Sadly this overwrites some files from parrots nqp-rx, which means that
10:12 dalek nqp/ctmo: it breaks recompilation, because .ops file translation uses nqp-rx internally
10:12 dalek nqp/ctmo: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/b3299e5198
10:13 Patterner "./include/parrot/config.h:73:44: error: conflicting types for 'Parrot_PackFile'"
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10:18 dalek nqp/ctmo: 86fd707 | moritz++ | build/Makefile.in:
10:18 dalek nqp/ctmo: [build] unbreak parallel build
10:18 dalek nqp/ctmo: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/86fd707c6e
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10:29 dalek nqp/ctmo: f73152c | moritz++ | build/Makefile.in:
10:29 dalek nqp/ctmo: [build] stop installing nqprx.pbc
10:29 dalek nqp/ctmo: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/f73152cd7b
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10:32 bacek benabik, pong
10:33 bacek benabik, I'm on biztrip to Singapore now. GMT+8 I think.
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10:57 bacek msg benabik
10:59 bacek msg benabik I think you can just continue nqp_pct branch in original parrot repo (as soon as you'll have your commit bit). I'll try to attend next #ps and ask for commit bit for you. If I will not able to do it - just ask any metacommitter to give it to you.
10:59 aloha OK. I'll deliver the message.
11:00 bacek msg benabik It will simplify code review on my side. Just because I'm too lazy to set up new repo :)
11:00 aloha OK. I'll deliver the message.
11:03 bacek msg benabik For any "urgent" queries I always available via email on bacek@bacek.com. Or xmpp:bacek@jabber.ru. Messages will arrive to my phone and I can answer them quickly (if I'm not totally drunk or burned in meetings at $dayjob :)
11:03 aloha OK. I'll deliver the message.
11:04 bacek afk # dinner time
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11:20 PerlJam msg bacek Did you see that I volunteered to be your backup mentor for benabik?
11:20 aloha OK. I'll deliver the message.
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12:45 whiteknight good morning, #parrot
12:45 lucian joined #parrot
12:46 bubaflub morning whiteknight
12:47 whiteknight hello bubaflub. how are you today?
12:47 whiteknight I'm going to try to update my VM to Ubuntu 11.04 today
12:47 bubaflub whiteknight: not too bad.  still stressed over finals but surviving.
12:47 whiteknight so that promises to be a lot of fun
12:47 whiteknight bubaflub: what classes are you taking this year?
12:47 bubaflub whiteknight: what VM are you using?
12:48 bubaflub whiteknight: i'm in seminary, so the list might appear weird
12:48 whiteknight I'm using VirtualBox here. I've got Ubuntu 10.10 on there now and want to upgrade
12:48 bubaflub whiteknight: History, Old Testament Prophets, Ministry, Theology and Contemporary Issues
12:48 whiteknight I have absolutely no idea what kinds of classes are taught at seminary, so I'm even more interested to hear the list
12:49 bubaflub whiteknight: yeah, i really like VirtualBox though at work we use VMWare
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12:50 bubaflub whiteknight: VMWare is nice in that I can pull up specific applications
12:50 whiteknight bubaflub: are you planning to be a priest or something like that when you graduate?
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12:51 whiteknight I really don't know a whole heck of a lot about how seminary works
12:52 bubaflub whiteknight: not exactly; "priest" usually refers to Catholic, Greek Orthodox, Anglican, Episcopalian, and probably some others. over here in Protestant land they are usually called pastors
12:53 whiteknight so you're planning to be a pastor? :)
12:53 bubaflub whiteknight: hahaha, sorry my typing is slow today.
12:53 bubaflub whiteknight: maybe - the degree i am going to get (M. Div.) is a 3-year non-thesis degree
12:54 bubaflub whiteknight: it's a very broad, non-specific degree that a lot of pastors will wind up getting
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12:54 bubaflub whiteknight: covers Greek and Hebrew, History, Theology, Biblical Studies, Practical Ministry (like counseling and preaching)
12:55 whiteknight oh, okay. cool. So you just do software on the side?
12:55 bubaflub whiteknight: and a bunch of other stuff from the abstract like Theology and Culture to the very nitty gritty like how to handle a meeting
12:55 bubaflub whiteknight: yep.  my undergrad was Math and Computer Science and it funds my other activities
12:55 whiteknight that's all very interesting. Good luck with it
12:56 bubaflub whiteknight: i do perl programming for Grant Street Group right now; i've bounced around in webdev stuff
12:56 bubaflub whiteknight: thanks
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13:03 whiteknight blah, the upgrade to 11.04 is going to take 3 more hours
13:03 whiteknight but I want my daily dose of fancy *now*
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13:14 atrodo 3 hours?  Good gravy, are they including a movie in the install?  A DoD wipe?  Harddrive encryption?
13:14 moritz atrodo: it's easy: install all packages related to tex :-)
13:14 whiteknight it's down to less than 2 hours now. I suspect the network here is T3H SUX
13:15 moritz atrodo: that would be > 200 packages, each of which needs to update some directory listing => lots of IO that doesn't cache very well
13:15 atrodo moritz++ # I could never understand the appeal of TeX
13:17 bubaflub atrodo: i'm a big fan of LaTeX, if that counts...
13:18 atrodo bubaflub> I have no problems with it, just could never really understand it or understand the appeal of it.  It's a me issue
13:18 atrodo Which is also kind of strange since I spent 4 years in the print industry
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13:19 moritz atrodo: without tex, I would have committed suizide many times over while trying to subdue some word processor
13:19 bubaflub atrodo: heh.  yeah, also on Mac there are convenient bundles and pre-built binaries.  there is also a build called XeTeX that handles unicode / multi-language stuff well.
13:19 moritz atrodo: if you write a lot of text and mathematical formulas, there's nothing like it
13:20 whiteknight I just don't do a heck of a lot of wordprocessing, but I rarely find an application that Markdown, POD, or some flavor of wikitext can't handle
13:20 whiteknight I've opened my copy of OpenOffice Write exactly once since I installed it: to update my resume which was stored as a .doc
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13:20 moritz try to write a 500 pages report with lots of images in Word
13:20 whiteknight try to avoid writing 500 page reports with lots of images
13:20 whiteknight problem solved
13:20 atrodo moritz> Haven't done a lot of math formulas, I do understand it's second to none there
13:21 moritz and then curse every programmer in the world when it says "Can't open file: too big"
13:21 whiteknight atrodo: yes. Wikipedia uses LaTeX for it's math typesetting engine, and I always appreciated it there
13:22 whiteknight it uses a very limited subset of TeX, I think
13:22 atrodo moritz> I also didn't know TeX existed until college
13:23 moritz atrodo: that happens to a lot of people
13:26 lucian in my uni, .docx files are the norm apparently
13:26 whiteknight One day, when I write my first great american romance novella, maybe I'll want to use TeX
13:26 whiteknight probably not
13:27 lucian dukeleto: like a webpage?
13:27 * jnthn__ is writing course material for $dayjob in TeX today. :)
13:29 whiteknight course material? you a teacher or professor or something?
13:30 jnthn__ whiteknight: My $dayjob is partly teaching, yes :)
13:31 * Util is working to fix broken Trac report {6}, as requested by dukeleto; ETA 30 minutes.
13:31 whiteknight jnthn__: grad student?
13:33 jnthn__ whiteknight: No, it's outside of academic world, for businesses.
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13:33 jnthn__ whiteknight: I teach stuff like TDD, software architecture, etc. Currently putting together a web security course.
13:33 whiteknight oh, okay
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13:34 moritz jnthn__: point them to http://autologout.org/all :-)
13:35 lucian moritz: pretty cool
13:36 moritz lucian: thanks
13:36 moritz next step: a submission form, and review of submitted links
13:36 lucian did you make it? awesome
13:36 lucian there's a typo in <title>, though
13:36 jnthn__ moritz: oh, NICE!
13:37 moritz lucian: me and a fellow perl programmer
13:37 moritz which typo?
13:37 * moritz seems blind today
13:38 lucian moritz: says AutLogin
13:38 moritz ah, thanks
13:41 jnthn__ gah, that cost me my GitHub and Google logins :P
13:42 moritz jnthn__: I was quite surprised that those two were affected
13:42 moritz same for slashdot
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13:45 lucian aloha: tell dukeleto if it's a website you need, you can put in my "blog", http://honeyweb.wordpress.com
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13:57 * Util has finished fixing Trac report {6}
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14:01 moritz Util: and 4 minutes before your ETA.
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14:46 whiteknight blah, my VM is at 98% disk usage during the upgrade
14:46 whiteknight I'm going to have to purge a lot of crap, methinks
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14:47 whiteknight maybe I'll just try to grow the disk
14:49 whiteknight no, can't automatically grow disks in virtualbox
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15:34 whiteknight why is config telling me that we are missing t/tools/parrot_debugger.t
15:34 whiteknight ?
15:35 coke_ didn't dukeleto just remove it?
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15:37 whiteknight oh, did he?
15:37 whiteknight then he didn't remove it enough
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15:53 whiteknight On ubuntu 11.04, it appears that asm/errno.h and asm/socket.h among others are not there
15:54 whiteknight instead, it looks like they've been moved to asm-generic/errno.h and asm-generic/socket.h
15:54 moritz whiteknight: maybe you need to install some -dev packages first?
15:54 moritz hm
15:54 whiteknight I just upgraded from 10.10
15:54 whiteknight so at the least it should still have the packages that I had installed previously
15:54 moritz "should"
15:55 whiteknight I fixed the problem with a symlink and parrot is building now
15:55 whiteknight I don't know if that's a "bug" in ubuntu, or if we should update Parrot's configure system accordingly
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15:55 whiteknight I'm finding plenty of other bugs in the new ubuntu, so I'm inclined towards the former
16:01 whiteknight the fact that it sponaneously resets my desktop theme to the hideously ugly Gnome defaults is quite annoying. It's doing that randomly it seems
16:02 moritz there have been lots of blog posts about how unreliable the ubuntu beta was
16:02 whiteknight yeah, I tried the beta, and it was just as bad as this
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16:03 whiteknight that's kind of disappointing
16:03 rohit_nsit08 joined #parrot
16:03 rohit_nsit08 hello #parrot
16:03 whiteknight and sockaddr.t is segfaulting on the system now. It passed just fine when I ran the test this morning before the upgrade
16:03 coke_ rohit_nsit08: hio.
16:03 whiteknight good morning rohit_nsit08
16:04 rohit_nsit08 coke_: hello
16:04 coke_ rohit_nsit08: Are you on mumbai time?
16:04 atrodo whiteknight> I'm glad they decided that the beta was good enough
16:04 rohit_nsit08 coke_: yes, It us UTC+5:30
16:04 coke_ currently 21:34, yes?
16:05 rohit_nsit08 coke_: yup
16:05 rohit_nsit08 coke_: this will be my usual time, fine?
16:05 coke_ danyawaad.
16:06 rohit_nsit08 coke_: vow, u know hindi?
16:06 coke_ Sure. it's lunch time here, which makes it amenable to talking at work.
16:06 coke_ rohit_nsit08: I know 3 or 4 words, 2 of which i cannot say in a public channel.
16:06 rhebus_ joined #parrot
16:06 rohit_nsit08 coke_: ya, okay that is fine :-)
16:07 coke_ (current company has a lot of Indians on staff, both locally and remotely.)
16:07 coke_ So how goes? This is my first time as a primary mentor. Typically I'm the backup and never have to do anything. ;)
16:08 rohit_nsit08 coke_: which company do u work for?
16:08 coke_ General Electric
16:08 rohit_nsit08 coke_: great, ya i wrote yesterday a post on parrot regarding my so far status
16:08 coke_ http://www.parrot.org/content/hello-parrot, ja?
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16:08 rhebus_ is now known as rhebus
16:09 rohit_nsit08 coke_: I was reading about PCT to get more acquaint with parrot
16:09 coke_ the "important points" is good.
16:09 rohit_nsit08 ya that one
16:10 coke_ (PCT) aye. I've done compilers on parrot both ways (raw pir, vs. PCT that generates pir), and doing it with PCT lets you avoid writing a lot of code.
16:11 rohit_nsit08 ya but that will require npq and perl i guess, and the javascript compiler will be written mostly in javascript, I'm currently experimenting on "cafe" on my system.
16:11 coke_ I have found that the best docs on that were (sadly) other people's code. I have a bunch of code using PCT classes from NQP (in partcl)
16:12 coke_ You don't need nqp to use PCT. it does give you a nicer front end, though.
16:12 whiteknight It's not even possible to use PCT in stage 1. You need to already have the compiler running on Parrot for that
16:13 coke_ whiteknight: you could use nqp in stage 1 and eventually rip it out.
16:13 coke_ Generating raw PIR is fine. winxed and partcl-old both do that.
16:13 whiteknight true. He can generate any kind of code he wants in the backend of stage 1
16:13 coke_ so, if you've got a comfort level with raw PIR, that's fine.
16:14 rohit_nsit08 whiteknight: ya, I was just reading pct for fun, I have gone through the cafe's code generator and will start hacking on it now.
16:14 coke_ rohit_nsit08: what is "T representation" ?
16:15 whiteknight it's a graphical way to represent what a compiler does and how it is written itself, though I'm fuzzy on those details myself
16:15 coke_ (looking at http://rohitnsit08.blogspot.com/2011/04/​bootstrapping-javascript-compiler.html)
16:15 coke_ also, you have a broken image in that post
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16:16 coke_ but so far the plan looks good.
16:16 rohit_nsit08 coke_: T representation is simply to represent compiler , it represents source language, target language, and the implementation language in an easy to understand format. I read some research paper where they were used and helped me to grab the concept better
16:16 rohit_nsit08 let me check for the broken image
16:17 coke_ ok. in the image on the post, which parts of the T are which?
16:17 coke_ (left, right, bottom) = (source, target, implementation) ?
16:17 rohit_nsit08 coke_: yup
16:17 rohit_nsit08 the bottom triangle represents the machine on which this compiler will run
16:18 coke_ k.
16:18 rohit_nsit08 without that it is just a program only
16:18 rohit_nsit08 didn't found any broken image, is it opening now?
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16:21 coke_ "the This step can be visualized by this diagram.
16:21 coke_ s/the//
16:21 coke_ http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-8S3LOkheb5s​/TacgZLmLzSI/AAAAAAAAAIY/OYqlCC1WN6M/​s640/Untitleddrawing+%25281%2529.jpg
16:22 coke_ also:
16:22 coke_ http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-_A0W5Qtfamw/​TachHvHCe-I/AAAAAAAAAIg/p8HAUFnPKFM/s1​600/completeJsCompiler+%25281%2529.jpg
16:22 coke_ rohit_nsit08: are you blocking on anything from me at the moment?
16:23 coke_ my email is will@coleda.com - feel free to email me (or google chat) any questions there, if I'm not around on irc.
16:23 rohit_nsit08 coke_: i guess not.
16:23 rohit_nsit08 coke_: ya sure
16:23 rohit_nsit08 thanks
16:24 rohit_nsit08 i'll check the privacy settings if some problem is there
16:24 coke_ ah, that could be, yah.
16:24 coke_ (could just be me.)
16:25 coke_ I have to go grab some lunch. :)
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16:26 rohit_nsit08 coke_: okay, I just had dinner :-)
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16:37 dalek parrot/tt1931-nci-parameters-deprecation: 398f171 | plobsing++ | src/nci/extra_thunks.nci:
16:37 dalek parrot/tt1931-nci-parameters-deprecation: comment-ify garbage at EOL
16:37 dalek parrot/tt1931-nci-parameters-deprecation: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/398f171421
16:37 dalek parrot/tt1931-nci-parameters-deprecation: 962e551 | plobsing++ | tools/dev/nci_thunk_gen.pir:
16:37 dalek parrot/tt1931-nci-parameters-deprecation: rewrite thunk generator to work with new, more descriptive signatures
16:37 dalek parrot/tt1931-nci-parameters-deprecation:
16:37 dalek parrot/tt1931-nci-parameters-deprecation:  * maintains backwards-compat with old-style sigs
16:37 dalek parrot/tt1931-nci-parameters-deprecation:  * works directly with sig FIAs
16:37 dalek parrot/tt1931-nci-parameters-deprecation:  * uses PCRE
16:37 dalek parrot/tt1931-nci-parameters-deprecation: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/962e5516de
16:37 dalek parrot/tt1931-nci-parameters-deprecation: 55bfc77 | plobsing++ | src/nci/extra_thunks.c:
16:37 dalek parrot/tt1931-nci-parameters-deprecation: reboostrap thunks
16:37 dalek parrot/tt1931-nci-parameters-deprecation: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/55bfc77e55
16:47 dukeleto ~~
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17:00 whiteknight plobsing++ is kicking some ass in that branch
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17:13 dalek nqp/ctmo: 4042390 | moritz++ | build/gen_parrot.pl:
17:13 dalek nqp/ctmo: [Configure] git fetch in the right place
17:13 dalek nqp/ctmo: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/404239038b
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17:31 dukeleto looks like Ubuntu 11.04 is out. Anybody tried it?
17:35 bluescreen left #parrot
17:35 coke_ dukeleto: wonder if it fixes my power issues. :P
17:36 * coke_ wanders off to get his laptop out of the car.
17:36 moritz dukeleto: see the backlog
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17:38 bubaflub dukeleto: i think whiteknight was installing/upgrading it on his VM
17:38 * dukeleto backlogs
17:38 dukeleto bubaflub: how goes classes and such?
17:39 bubaflub dukeleto: not bad! in the home stretch
17:39 bubaflub dukeleto: lots of time spent at the library this week; but knocked out almost all my reading.  all i have left are final papers (and a few exams)
17:41 bubaflub seen plobsing?
17:41 aloha plobsing was last seen in #perl6 3 hours 37 mins ago joining the channel.
17:41 bubaflub msg plobsing does the ncidef2pir script need to be updated after the changes in your branch for TT1931 land?
17:41 aloha OK. I'll deliver the message.
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17:49 dalek parrot: 97c32c7 | dukeleto++ | MANIFEST:
17:49 dalek parrot: Remove parrot_debugger.t from the MANIFEST
17:49 dalek parrot: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/97c32c708a
17:54 dukeleto msg plobsing got a build failure on your recent commit http://new.leto.net:3000/api/build/parrot/55bfc7​7e5567a8ec951bb3bc682844f6d65ca9b0/perl-v5.10.1
17:54 aloha OK. I'll deliver the message.
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17:57 dukeleto http://new.leto.net:3000/project/parrot is already being very useful
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18:02 bubaflub dukeleto: is that your CI?
18:08 dukeleto bubaflub: yeps. it is Jitterbug : https://github.com/leto/jitterbug/tree/reuse_repo
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18:09 dukeleto bubaflub: i got an instance for work at http://jitterbug.sgn.cornell.edu:8090/
18:09 davidfetter joined #parrot
18:10 dukeleto bubaflub: there is plenty to improve, but it is useful
18:10 bubaflub dukeleto: very nice. i've played a bit with Integrity before.  but i like the idea of a Perl CI system
18:12 dukeleto bubaflub: it is written in Perl, but knows how to run many kinds of tests
18:13 dukeleto bubaflub: it supports Build.PL, Makefile.PL, Makefile, Rakefile and maybe something else, now
18:13 dukeleto bubaflub: I want to add support for running any kind of test suite
18:13 dukeleto bubaflub: and i just added the ability to write a custom test script, if it can't autodetect
18:13 bubaflub dukeleto: very nice.
18:14 dukeleto bubaflub: oh yeah, it supports Configure.pl and setup.pir for Parrot and Perl 6 projects
18:14 dukeleto of course ;)
18:16 bubaflub dukeleto: awesome.  i'll be using disutils and some Rosella goodness for the GSoC project
18:17 lucian_ is now known as lucian
18:20 cotto_work ~~
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18:25 cotto_work bubaflub: what happened with Parrot on RTEMS?
18:26 bubaflub cotto_work: i have a hints file, got stuck on the boot-strappy bits
18:26 bubaflub cotto_work: when i get time i'd like to revisit it
18:26 cotto_work I'd like that too.
18:26 cotto_work Was it you who was working on separate build dirs?
18:27 bubaflub cotto_work: what i think would have to happen is you build a system parrot first, build up to miniparrot with the cross-compiler / RTEMS, steal some of the bootstrapped bits and finish to build libparrot for the target system
18:27 bubaflub cotto_work: yes;  it was a major pain.  i have a good amount of work on it but it was a bit inelegant; a lot of FindBin qw($bin) to figure out where i was
18:28 bubaflub cotto_work: also, a lot of stuff is actually in a BEGIN {} block which make debugging *real* hard - i.e. it would error out before the debugger could even start
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18:32 cotto_work bubaflub: do you have a branch for that?
18:33 bubaflub cotto_work: https://github.com/bubaflub/g​soc-rtems-parrot-hints-maker
18:33 bubaflub some of the diffs in there should do it
18:33 dukeleto bubaflub: i think compiling parrot under qemu to cross-compile is the easier way to skin that cat
18:34 dukeleto bubaflub: that is what the emacs bitbake recipe does to compile on arbitrary embedded machines
18:34 bubaflub dukeleto: good to know
18:34 dukeleto cotto_work: Parrot on RTEMS is a huge undertaking
18:34 bubaflub dukeleto: anyway we can get a libparrot compiled on the target platform i'm game for
18:34 dukeleto cotto_work: i don't think it will happen unless somebody funds it.
18:34 cotto_work dukeleto: sure.  There are a lot of prerequisites we don't have in place.
18:34 bubaflub dukeleto and cotto_work: also because getting RTEMS up and running is a bit hairy itself; lots of automake and what not
18:35 bubaflub cotto_work: i do think getting an out of directory build is definitely a first step
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18:35 dukeleto blarg
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19:51 dalek parrot/tt1931-nci-parameters-deprecation: 96c86cc | plobsing++ | tools/dev/nci_thunk_gen.pir:
19:51 dalek parrot/tt1931-nci-parameters-deprecation: rearrange thunk gen to handle pass-by-ref
19:51 dalek parrot/tt1931-nci-parameters-deprecation: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/96c86cc03f
19:51 dalek parrot/tt1931-nci-parameters-deprecation: 4f81c7f | plobsing++ | config/gen/makefiles/root.in:
19:51 dalek parrot/tt1931-nci-parameters-deprecation: new dependancies of thunk gen
19:51 dalek parrot/tt1931-nci-parameters-deprecation: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/4f81c7f86e
19:51 dalek parrot/tt1931-nci-parameters-deprecation: 83bcbea | plobsing++ | src/nci/extra_thunks.nci:
19:51 dalek parrot/tt1931-nci-parameters-deprecation: add new thunk for nci_thunk_gen and remaining PCRE thunks
19:51 dalek parrot/tt1931-nci-parameters-deprecation: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/83bcbea1be
19:51 dalek parrot/tt1931-nci-parameters-deprecation: edc12c7 | plobsing++ | src/nci/extra_thunks.c:
19:51 dalek parrot/tt1931-nci-parameters-deprecation: rebootstrap thunks
19:51 dalek parrot/tt1931-nci-parameters-deprecation: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/edc12c77e8
19:51 dalek parrot/tt1931-nci-parameters-deprecation: 0bb3627 | plobsing++ | tools/dev/nci_thunk_gen.pir:
19:51 dalek parrot/tt1931-nci-parameters-deprecation: [codingstd] trailing whitespace
19:51 dalek parrot/tt1931-nci-parameters-deprecation: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/0bb3627dee
19:53 whiteknight plobsing: so is pcre a requirement now to bootstrap ops?
19:53 plobsing no. it is required to build new static thunks and to bootstrap thunks.
19:55 bubaflub plobsing: what's the best way to marshal C-strings in and out through NCI after these deprecations?
19:55 plobsing bubaflub ncidef2pir does not require updates to keep doing what it does. if we want to expose the new, shiny thunk descriptions, it will need to change.
19:56 whiteknight er, thunks. that's what I meant
19:56 plobsing bubaflub: the same way as before - do it yourself and manage the object's lifetime appropriately
19:57 bubaflub plobsing: okey dokey.
19:57 plobsing bubaflub: check out the PCRE bindings. it handles strings in this way.
19:57 bubaflub plobsing: great, thanks.
19:58 plobsing the PG bindings do too, and use automatic wrappers (to deal with the large amount of NCIs using strings)
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20:01 plobsing whiteknight: I don't see the pcre dependency as particularly onerous and the operation is done rather infrequently.
20:01 dukeleto plobsing: are you seeing the failures at http://new.leto.net:3000/project/parrot ?
20:01 whiteknight plobsing: yeah, I didn't say it was a problem. I don't have pcre on my machine so I guess I will have to isntall it
20:02 plobsing whiteknight: how do you not have pcre installed?
20:03 plobsing my machine has a zillion dependancies on it - glib2, grep, less, zsh, ...
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20:03 plobsing dukeleto: hmmm... I was expecting the extra thunks to help out there
20:05 whiteknight I might have it. I certainly never manually installed it
20:05 whiteknight I've obviously never put much thought into it
20:06 dukeleto many things bundle their own pcre, such as php
20:08 dalek parrot/tt1931-nci-parameters-deprecation: 0d8ab04 | plobsing++ | config/gen/makefiles/root.in:
20:08 dalek parrot/tt1931-nci-parameters-deprecation: forgot to add pcre dep
20:08 dalek parrot/tt1931-nci-parameters-deprecation: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/0d8ab04e3b
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20:20 dalek parrot/tt1931-nci-parameters-deprecation: f2b7f12 | plobsing++ | config/gen/makefiles/root.in:
20:20 dalek parrot/tt1931-nci-parameters-deprecation: remove extra_nci_thunks library
20:20 dalek parrot/tt1931-nci-parameters-deprecation:
20:20 dalek parrot/tt1931-nci-parameters-deprecation: this never got past the demo stage as interest never took off
20:20 dalek parrot/tt1931-nci-parameters-deprecation: review: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/f2b7f123c8
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21:33 Andy_ YOU GOT RID OF EXTRA_NCI_THUNKS?
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21:33 Andy_ BLESS YOU
21:39 dukeleto And then there were fewer hunks, and the masses were pleased.
21:43 Patterner do you care about the masses?
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22:19 * dukeleto forgot the difference between a hunk and a thunk
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22:19 darbelo dukeleto: One has a t at the start.
22:19 darbelo ;)
22:20 dukeleto darbelo: inteet it toes
22:21 dukeleto cotto_work: http://linuxfestnorthwest.org/f​orum/bof-sessions-birds-feather
22:21 dukeleto cotto_work: parrot bof ?
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22:39 dukeleto msg cotto http://linuxfestnorthwest.org/forum/bof-sessions-​birds-feather/parrot-virtual-machine-hackathonbof
22:39 aloha OK. I'll deliver the message.
22:39 cotto_work ~~
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22:39 cotto_work dukeleto: nice
22:39 darbelo joined #parrot
22:41 cotto_work At some point I'd like to get a new logo for Parrot.  I like that you mentioned that graphic artists are welcome too.
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22:41 dalek tracwiki: v32 | dukeleto++ | NewParrotDeveloperGuide
22:41 dalek tracwiki: http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/wiki/NewParro​tDeveloperGuide?version=32&amp;action=diff
22:43 theory tadzik: ping
22:44 dukeleto theory: tadzik is on europe time
22:44 theory the fuck you say
22:44 dukeleto theory: poland, methinks
22:44 theory Seems like half the time I talk to .eu folks on my time, they reply anyway.
22:44 theory I think half the people I know there don't sleep.
22:44 theory dukeleto: Thanks.
22:45 dukeleto theory: you can message him
22:45 dukeleto msg tadzik theory++ is lookin' for ya
22:45 aloha OK. I'll deliver the message.
22:45 theory dukeleto: Yeah
22:45 theory oh, me tends to use /mst
22:45 theory /msg
22:46 dukeleto theory: sure. but aloha will tell him you were looking for him, when he joins irc again. SOME people don't have persistent irc connections.
22:46 dukeleto probably healthier
22:46 theory dukeleto: Yeah, I'm one of them.
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23:24 whiteknight good evening, #parrot
23:27 cotto_work hi whiteknight
23:27 whiteknight hello cotto_work
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23:38 whiteknight I'm really starting to get excited about concurrency, but I figure we havea few other things to take care of first
23:38 whiteknight I don't want to start on it until at least we do some Lorito work. Context/Interp refactors are especially important in that regard
23:39 whiteknight If we can start getting a plan together I would like to start putting in some deprecations by 3.6
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23:52 whiteknight We really need to focus some effort on packfiles to help out Rakudo. Then I really want to focus on 6model
23:52 whiteknight after that, if Lorito has moved far enough forward, concurrency
23:53 whiteknight I think we can get some good packfile work done, and 6model moved into Parrot before 4.0. We can probably get concurrency started by then, but not merged
23:58 jnthn__ I need to look in more depth at the profile, but 6model uses the fixed size allocator in Parrot for pretty much all of its object body allocations now. The profile I glanced a few days ago showed stuff related to the fixed size allocator being a hot path now.
23:59 jnthn__ In fact, I think fill_params, find_lex and the fixed size allocator were the three "hottest" things that showed up in the profile.

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